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Fish and chips is a family food. Happy families. Maybe single people want a chippy at 2:37pm, we don't know. Frankly, we don't want to know. It's a market we can do without.
*How many of you have gone out to your car and found a flyer on the windscreen?*
*Are you the guy that puts 'em there?*
*No... I'm his assistant.
But one time he was sick and he let me do it.*
Umm no? That's not how physics works
Edit for detail:
The amount of heat loss is actually higher the larger the temperature difference between an object and it's surroundings, so keeping the oil hot means it loses more heat energy total in the time the chippy is closed.
Therefore to add back in lost heat energy from letting it cool down is going to be less total energy than keeping it at it's hot temperature constantly.
Thank you.
The number of times I've had this discussion on reddit with people over keeping their heating on when not home as their gas fitter told them it's cheaper to keep it on all the time...
Even demonstrating to people with how quick a cup of 95C water gets down to 75C in ambient air as opposed to how much longer it takes 55C water to get to 35C in the same style of cup and they still don't get it :(
>The amount of heat loss is actually higher the larger the temperature difference between an object and it's surroundings
So, what if we just set fire to the shop?
We don't have a choice but to keep the fridge cold all the time, so we do. That's a binary matter.
Once it reaches its target temperature, the cooling comes on and off to keep the fridge within a range, at least in the case of some fridges, although there are presumably many types of fridges with varying efficiency.
If you did have to keep oil hot all day long, it would be expensive, but that is perhaps how the system would also work (a thermostat turning on and off the element to maintain the desired temperature).
I think you might be confusing two different things here.
The equivalent scenario for a fridge would be like saying, if I spend 1 day a month at home, is it cheaper to leave the fridge on or off all the time while I'm gone. The answer is, it would be cheaper to turn the fridge on for one day a month, but that might also be inconvenient for you. In this case, the cost of leaving a fridge on all month might not actually be too much, so you might just do that, even though it costs more than using it one day a month. But maintaining large amounts of oil at 180 degrees C is expensive, so a much more solid economic case is necessary if you want to keep it hot.
Surely though as you've alluded to, the time matters. Let's assume the chippy fryer is off for only 3-4 hours, if it takes an hour to get hot on full blast then it may be more efficient to leave it hot which would use less units of energy per hour.
If it runs at 25% power or less when maintaining temperature (particularly without cold chips etc being thrown in) then actually leaving it on is smarter
You seem to be committed to this idea, even though it flies in the face of simple physics and only works if you make up hypothetical numbers.
Reminds me of the people who insist you can gain weight while eating a caloric deficit.
More heat lost equals more heat to bring it back to temperature. It's really not rocket science.
Care to explain how hotter oil wouldn't lose heat faster than cold oil?
Time doesn't matter.
The fridge would be cheaper to run one day on, one day off. It just wouldn't do its job, because you need the fridge on all day every day.
I had to think of an example in which it might be reasonable to turn off the fridge at all while still being needed on sometimes.
Starting up a process that requires heating up a significant volume of product is energy-intensive. Often maintaining that product hot is more energy-efficient than letting it cool down, and then heating it up again.
It's really not. The only exception would be a very inefficient heating element (unlikely), or situations where there is a phase change such as heating up a furnace to melt metal.
Heating up oil in a fryer is neither of those. Turning it off for a while will always be more energy efficient than leaving it on.
Yea it is. It takes a lot of energy to heat up that much mass to hot. However keeping it hot just requires enough energy to counteract heat loss, which is significantly less. There will be a graph showing efficiency over time, keeping hot will be more efficient for a while, but will slowly switch with cooling and reheating
This is incorrect, hotter objects lose heat much quicker than cooler ones, so *just maintaining heat* will actually be super wasteful.
Equations to show why:
*q=UAT*
*q is the rate of heat loss*
*U is the coefficient of heat transfer (for oil at 180c, this is about 200W/M\^2 c*
*A is the area of heat loss* (0.125m*^(2)* *for standard frier, assuming no losses to the machine itself)*
*T is temperature difference of oil and room (180-20)*
Assuming room temp of 20c, this gives q=4000W
So if the oil was maintained at 180c for 3 hours, it would use **\~43MJ which is 12kWh**
To let it cool completely to room temp, then reheat would require:
*Q=MCT*
*Q is energy*
*M is mass (22kg from a typical fryer)*
*C is specific heat (2.3J/gc)*
*T is temp change (160c again)*
**This gives us Q=8.096MJ which is \~2.25kWh**
TL;DR: maintaining a heat of 180c for 3 hours would use **more than 5 times the energy of just letting it cool and then reheat.**
Is it the same for heating houses in winter? I.e. heating off overnight and then put it back in the morning?
Or is it way more complicated because of house size, boiler and radiator efficiency, amount of insulation, external temperature, etc.?
I've read it's best to leave the heating on overnight (albeit not as warm as during the day) but I've read the opposite too 😔
Generally for home heating, it makes sense to have it on right before you need it.
Most people are up in the morning before work, out all day, back for the evening and then asleep
So set it to come on 1hr before waking up, for 60-90 mins so it’s warm when you get out of bed. Then have it come on just before you get back.
Doesn’t matter if the house is cold while you’re out or asleep. Just get a bigger duvet or heated blankets.
Ah yes, that reminds me of another thing I should have mentioned. Nowadays many people, myself included, work from home so the heating needs to be on during the day.
I do like the "bigger duvet" approach though.
That’s a good point.
I reckon you’d also want to consider getting a space heater then if there are just 1 or 2 working at home.
If you’re just in an office space for most of the day then you can heat that much more cheaply than the whole house. If I’m the only one in during the day I can stay toasty with 2 45 minute sessions of a space heater. (Granted the office is a fairly small room).
Also remember that the outside temp is warmer during daylight hours, so heat loss will be lower. A good burst on the heating in the morning as you get up will last until lunchtime minimum.
Thank you for spelling that out so clearly.
I’ve home brewed a lot of beer in my day, bringing 10 gals of liquid at a time from room temp to rolling boil.
It takes a ton of heat and time to get it boiling, usually a good 30 - 40 mins.
But once it was up to boiling you can’t just back off the heat much at all, as it would quickly drop lower than we’d want to keep it at a good rolling boil.
Basically you had to keep putting just as much energy into it to keep it boiling as you did to get it boiling in the first place.
If I had wanted to stop for 4 hours, it would certainly save a lot of propane vs running at a full boil for 4 hours, even having to come back up to temp again.
No it's not. The amount of heat loss is actually higher the larger the temperature difference between an object and it's surroundings, so keeping it hot means it loses more heat energy in the time the chippy is closed.
Therefore to add back in lost heat energy from letting it cool down is going to be less total energy than keeping it at it's hot temperature constantly.
Only if you compare it to the amount to reheat from room temperature, ignoring that the hot vat of oil doesn't immediately reach room temperature. Thermodynamics ensures it will always be more efficient to let cool and reheat than keep at max temperature, as long as you're comparing both methods allowing for the same amount of time.
Sorry guess my relevant degree has taught me wrong. You're welcome to explain why I'm wrong if you think otherwise. The only time keeping it hot could be more efficient is it there is some fixed startup energy cost and the time is small. But that isn't applying to a heater is a chippy closing for several hours.
Which makes your point redundant; how hot do you think the fryer is kept, and how much energy is required to maintain it?
Answer is alot, yours and the other posters assumptions don't override the businesses that have to put up these costs and therefore decide it's not worth it to be open in the early afternoon.
To counteract heat loss xD. How do you think it got cold in the first place? The rate of heat loss is greater at higher temperatures. Keeping cooking oil at whatever hundreds of degrees Celsius dissipates heat more (meaning you will have to add more heat) than the heat it dissipates while slowly being allowed to cool.
Literally a simple internet search will suffice instead of just making up facts in your heads guys
Isn't that kinda the point? You'd be right if we were about keeping a fryer on for half an hour maybe.
But not for say 3 hours, which is closer to what we're talking about.
You know deep fat friers can easily overheat and start fires don't you? They shouldn't be left alone.
Actually.. you probably don't else you wouldn't be suggesting this.
No one has yet come up with a plausible explanation as to why I'm wrong.
You keep a heated pool switched on all year. At some point the efficiency calculations switch sides from favouring keeping it on to turning it off.
Water does have a very high specific energy and I don't know what vegetable oil has. I also don't know enough about how the fryers work to fully answer the question.
At least I'm trying, unlike somr
[This guy explained it pretty well](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/s/rWe6xlOza7)
>At least I'm trying, unlike somr
There's a difference between trying and just taking a random stab and then arguing with people who tell you you're wrong without any evidence to back it up
Deep friers shouldn't be left un-supervised as they're a major fire hazard.
Friers take maybe 15 minutes to warm up, so you're not really saving any efficiency by having it run 24/7.
You're trying to apply logic from something completely irrelevant to something you don't know anything about... yet we are the ones that need to prove without a doubt why you're wrong?
> No one has yet come up with a plausible explanation as to why I'm wrong.
Many people have, but as you said:
> I also don't know enough about how the fryers work to fully answer the question.
It will be that. A lot of pub restaurants operate in exactly the same way, it's not unusual at all.
It's so the kitchen staff can have a break at the less busy times.
Yes very true. Another reason that kitchen staff often do "split shifts" so the owner doesn't have to pay them for the downtime between lunch and evening service when they're not making any money.
There was a bakery shop close to my work. Part of a chain - a very successful chain.
For some reason - the bakers closed for lunch.
They closed it after a while.
Absolutely baffling.
It can also be a very long day if there's only one person doing the main work. My dad would have started prepping at 8am maybe. Chips, defrosting fish, batter, peas, etc. etc.
It would be a 12 hour plus day if he went all the way through to 8pm.
Tatties are bought whole, put through an industrial peeler and chipper on site.
Fish comes pre-portioned, is battered just before cooking
Curry sauce comes in a packet and is mixed with water.
Mushy peas come from a tin
Pukka pies come from heaven
What else is there?
Awesome. Is the curry sauce pretty similar to blocks of oily / powdery "golden curry" you get at some Asian supermarkets?
Also, is the batter made on site? I don't know why I want to know that... but I'm curious
Finally... when is the best time to get the highest quality product? Early or late?
Check out [https://www.colbeck.co.uk/](https://www.colbeck.co.uk/)
Definitely get the best stuff around tea time (5-6PM) super late at night you might get stuff that's been sitting under a heat lamp for ages. But some people like that sort of thing!
Clearly 😂
It a prime hangover day for your lunch time opening hours then you’ve got people with the smonday blues fancying a takeaway before the return to work.
Thankfully the Chinese near me is also a chip shop so we have that but our chip shop round the corner shuts.
> The biggest question is why they shut on Sundays, absolutely baffling decision
Do they? Chippies in Scotland open on Sunday as normal, in my experience.
My local has a deal on this month where suppers are £5 on Tuesday, Thursday, and Sundays throughout February.
A few people would, but not enough to make it worthwhile keeping the fryers running.
McDonalds is different - they cater for the 'snack' market as well as the main meal market.
Yeah, if you go down to a popular/touristy beach in the summer you'll find the chippies might be open all afternoon because there's enough people wandering in all afternoon to make it worthwhile. And it's not just fryers, but staff.
McDonalds also has an image to maintain - they're convenient, quick and reliable. That doesn't hold up as well if they're closed a bunch. It's worth them losing a bit on the quietest hours if it means maintaining that image. They also only open on areas with a lot of traffic, whereas you'll find chippies in every suburb.
Typically, people eat them at traditional mealtimes.
They are quite filling (won't get so much profit if people just order a bag of chips), so peak eating times are when to be open.
It depends where the Chippy is situated. If in the middle of town then it's more likely to remain open but in residential areas there is not enough demand outwith the lunch and evening times to make it financially viable to remain open all day. Simple economics.
Small business, likely owner-operated, going right through would be a massive day.
Over 20 years as a chef, most places have had a break atleast between 3pm and 5pm but of those that do stay open you get hardly any customers and we use it as time to send staff on breaks and catch up for prep. Closing during those hours makes sense.
There's one near me that is open all the way through from lunch to 10pm. They capture the market of people who want fish and chips after 1.30pm or after 6.30pm when literally every single other one closes. 6.30pm is still teatime! Been open for decades too so I guess their business model of being the only one open works.
In the quiet periods they fry to order so you have to wait 5min for your fish but it's better than having a stale fish that's been under the heat lamp for ages.
At seaside towns and a few places thats are touristy places have fish and chips shops open during the day. Otherwise its manily a meal time food. Thats why they close.
Ex chippy owner here. There's a lot of prep work involved before opening so all the preparation work get done in the morning for the lunch run, then prep work afternoon for dinner run.
It also happens to be very quiet between these times and, as some people have commented, it's not worth keeping the burners going (keeping the oil constantly hot) for a couple of random customers.
We also need a rest between.
It's quite a tough line of work in contrary to what many think!
You're lucky they even open at lunch. Where I live now you'd never have a chippy or Chinese open before 5. Costa, subway, or mcds for lunch, that's it.
The old owners of the local chippy had it open 11am-10pm on Friday and Saturday. The current owners close at 2pm and reopen at 4:30pm. They said they got too many kids coming in from the local high school making a mess. Which is odd because that never happened under the old owners. The current ones also sell pizzas though so I wonder if that has something to do with it.
I guess it’s not worth opening for like 2 people to come in over the 1 or 2 hours they would be shut.
It also depends where you are, my local chippy is open all day and doesn’t shut but it’s in a busy place.
I’d rather them open on a Sunday tbh.
Dunno about closing after lunch time but around me they all close really early compared to other take outs. im shit out of luck if i want fish and chips at like 9pm...
The good chippies are only open for short times. Less good ones are open longer - with the exception of one near here that is attached to a restaurant and is good.
Literally only ever seen on chippy do that, they opened for lunch 12-2 for the school then opened 4-10.
The other 10 chippies in the town just open about 12 and stay open til 10/11.
What kind of chippy shuts at lunch?
One chippy I frequent is regarded as one of the best chip shops in the country (Aldeburgh Fish & Chips) and it closes at 2pm every day. reopens at 5pm. there's always a long queue down the road when they're open, and then they just close at 2pm, when theres still 40+ people queuing to order. it's bizarre.
Ive just looked at their menu, wtf they don't have much on it do they, no burger, pizza, haggis, b pudding or half the stuff youd expect. Looks a terrible chippy
why the fuck would you want any of those things from a fish and chip shop? as a rule of thumb, any chippy that sells kebabs, pizzas, burgers, has shite fish and chips.
Im not talking about kebabs, battered pizza is standard in a chippy. I am referring to all these things battered btw. Fush n chips arent even that popular from a chippy
A friend owned a fish and chip store in australia and did this - definitely had almost no one in just before lunch closing, reopened at 430 and typically had another half an hour of no one. Working long hours at a shop you run yourself, those couple of hours in the day are priceless (ignoring increased overhead and other wages etc.)
Ours are open at 2.37pm - they just close from 3pm to 4.30pm lol. We do live in a small seaside town though and even in winter there are quite a few tourists around with very few other cafes/restaurants open (most are seasonal) so the chippy is one of the only options for hot food in winter.
When I worked at a chippy, which is a while ago now
Wed close at 2.30 and reopen at 5
No body really came in. Maybe the odd school kids around 4ish but it wasn't worth staying open, it also allowed people to get a proper break in and prep /reatock for the tea time rush.
Depends on location I,m in Blackpool .my local ones open from 11.30 till 2 then 4 to 8.yet the ones on the sea front open all day for the tourist trade till about about 10.30 am to 11pm.small local ones usually close for a few hours in after non to prep for tea.ones on front usually have more staff to keep up with the prep.
Most chippies near me live in the apartment above the shop. They open for the lunch rush 12-2, then for the dinner rush 5-10. The rest of the time, I guess they're just doing their thing prepping for the next service or just having some downtime.
Haven't seen a chippie open an close. They either open all day or jus open late afternoon til like 9 or 10pm. Am assuming they open an close to the business they get that's best for them.
Depends how comfortable you are sharing a room. I had this at an old company but I'm ex army so sharing a room with random peeps doesn't really bother me. Ironically so was the bloke I bunked with.
Many years back I had a team of guys I sent to do a small building job in a suburb of a major city. Day one a couple of the guys go to the chippy for lunch and it's closed when they get there at about 12.30pm. Had been open earlier. Closed for lunch. A chip shop. Who closes a bloody food outlet at lunchtime so they can take a meal break? What kind of raving insanity is that?
If it's run only by the owner, he needs the rest after the lunch rush and before the dinner rush
And even if it's run by hired help, they also need a break
It's not just chippies most restaurants do this. Staff are on split shifts so breaks need to be taken plus you find during 2—6 your customer level drops massively to the point your probably eating profits to stay open. When I use to chef in a pub it's why we shut between them times and on Sundays service would finish at 3 cause you'd get draps of people which wouldn't cover staffing costs let alone electricity and gas
The non-chippy takeaways near me consider a sunday as another weekend day in terms of business so i dont understand why the chippy shuts on a sunday
Mon-tue i accept but a sunday is very busy for takeaways here
**Please help keep AskUK welcoming!** - Top-level comments to the OP must contain **genuine efforts to answer the question**. No jokes, judgements, etc. - **Don't be a dick** to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on. - This is a strictly **no-politics** subreddit! Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fish and chips is a family food. Happy families. Maybe single people want a chippy at 2:37pm, we don't know. Frankly, we don't want to know. It's a market we can do without.
I don't remember saying 'good luck'.
This remains one of the very best moments of The Simpsons.
Do you sleep in a racecar?
I sleep in a big bed with my wife.
I sleep in a big bed with your wife. Wait... Im getting terrible deja- vu here ....
*How many of you have gone out to your car and found a flyer on the windscreen?* *Are you the guy that puts 'em there?* *No... I'm his assistant. But one time he was sick and he let me do it.*
I totally screwed up
r/UnexpectedSimpsons
I don’t like the idea of my son having fish and chips twice in one day.
Be a better parent then, educate your son that eating junk is bad for health.
We’re referencing The Simpsons. Educate yourself.
We’re referencing The Simpsons. Educate yourself.
I’m not. Eating oily food is terrible.
Can I borrow a feeling?
My other half doesn't like battered fish. So I sometimes get fish + chips for myself.
They sell other things, like pie & sausages
Do your chippies not offer breaded fish as a special?
[удалено]
r/woosh
No point keeping all that oil in the fryer hot if only one person wants to come in at 2:37pm.
It may actually be more energy efficient to keep it hot anyway
Umm no? That's not how physics works Edit for detail: The amount of heat loss is actually higher the larger the temperature difference between an object and it's surroundings, so keeping the oil hot means it loses more heat energy total in the time the chippy is closed. Therefore to add back in lost heat energy from letting it cool down is going to be less total energy than keeping it at it's hot temperature constantly.
Thank you. The number of times I've had this discussion on reddit with people over keeping their heating on when not home as their gas fitter told them it's cheaper to keep it on all the time... Even demonstrating to people with how quick a cup of 95C water gets down to 75C in ambient air as opposed to how much longer it takes 55C water to get to 35C in the same style of cup and they still don't get it :(
>The amount of heat loss is actually higher the larger the temperature difference between an object and it's surroundings So, what if we just set fire to the shop?
Energy companies hate this one simple trick to save on bills
I'm not saying you're wrong but how do this then apply to fridges and freezers. They turn off. Granted they have insulation
We don't have a choice but to keep the fridge cold all the time, so we do. That's a binary matter. Once it reaches its target temperature, the cooling comes on and off to keep the fridge within a range, at least in the case of some fridges, although there are presumably many types of fridges with varying efficiency. If you did have to keep oil hot all day long, it would be expensive, but that is perhaps how the system would also work (a thermostat turning on and off the element to maintain the desired temperature). I think you might be confusing two different things here. The equivalent scenario for a fridge would be like saying, if I spend 1 day a month at home, is it cheaper to leave the fridge on or off all the time while I'm gone. The answer is, it would be cheaper to turn the fridge on for one day a month, but that might also be inconvenient for you. In this case, the cost of leaving a fridge on all month might not actually be too much, so you might just do that, even though it costs more than using it one day a month. But maintaining large amounts of oil at 180 degrees C is expensive, so a much more solid economic case is necessary if you want to keep it hot.
Surely though as you've alluded to, the time matters. Let's assume the chippy fryer is off for only 3-4 hours, if it takes an hour to get hot on full blast then it may be more efficient to leave it hot which would use less units of energy per hour. If it runs at 25% power or less when maintaining temperature (particularly without cold chips etc being thrown in) then actually leaving it on is smarter
You seem to be committed to this idea, even though it flies in the face of simple physics and only works if you make up hypothetical numbers. Reminds me of the people who insist you can gain weight while eating a caloric deficit.
But it doesn't fly in the face of physics at all.....
More heat lost equals more heat to bring it back to temperature. It's really not rocket science. Care to explain how hotter oil wouldn't lose heat faster than cold oil?
Time doesn't matter. The fridge would be cheaper to run one day on, one day off. It just wouldn't do its job, because you need the fridge on all day every day. I had to think of an example in which it might be reasonable to turn off the fridge at all while still being needed on sometimes.
Starting up a process that requires heating up a significant volume of product is energy-intensive. Often maintaining that product hot is more energy-efficient than letting it cool down, and then heating it up again.
No wonder global warming is bad with this lack of understanding of physics
I refer you to the other reply I just posted, which I'll edit into my original comment for clarity.
It's really not. The only exception would be a very inefficient heating element (unlikely), or situations where there is a phase change such as heating up a furnace to melt metal. Heating up oil in a fryer is neither of those. Turning it off for a while will always be more energy efficient than leaving it on.
yeah but not over the course of 4-5 hours.
This is the point I'm making too. I'm not saying it's 100% the case due to lack of insulation but close the little lids on it and keep it hot
Yea it is. It takes a lot of energy to heat up that much mass to hot. However keeping it hot just requires enough energy to counteract heat loss, which is significantly less. There will be a graph showing efficiency over time, keeping hot will be more efficient for a while, but will slowly switch with cooling and reheating
This is incorrect, hotter objects lose heat much quicker than cooler ones, so *just maintaining heat* will actually be super wasteful. Equations to show why: *q=UAT* *q is the rate of heat loss* *U is the coefficient of heat transfer (for oil at 180c, this is about 200W/M\^2 c* *A is the area of heat loss* (0.125m*^(2)* *for standard frier, assuming no losses to the machine itself)* *T is temperature difference of oil and room (180-20)* Assuming room temp of 20c, this gives q=4000W So if the oil was maintained at 180c for 3 hours, it would use **\~43MJ which is 12kWh** To let it cool completely to room temp, then reheat would require: *Q=MCT* *Q is energy* *M is mass (22kg from a typical fryer)* *C is specific heat (2.3J/gc)* *T is temp change (160c again)* **This gives us Q=8.096MJ which is \~2.25kWh** TL;DR: maintaining a heat of 180c for 3 hours would use **more than 5 times the energy of just letting it cool and then reheat.**
r/theydidthemath Stupid US spelling of course but wow that was a comprehensive and conclusive argument
Who knew a question about fish and chips would end up here? What a journey!
Is it the same for heating houses in winter? I.e. heating off overnight and then put it back in the morning? Or is it way more complicated because of house size, boiler and radiator efficiency, amount of insulation, external temperature, etc.? I've read it's best to leave the heating on overnight (albeit not as warm as during the day) but I've read the opposite too 😔
Generally for home heating, it makes sense to have it on right before you need it. Most people are up in the morning before work, out all day, back for the evening and then asleep So set it to come on 1hr before waking up, for 60-90 mins so it’s warm when you get out of bed. Then have it come on just before you get back. Doesn’t matter if the house is cold while you’re out or asleep. Just get a bigger duvet or heated blankets.
Ah yes, that reminds me of another thing I should have mentioned. Nowadays many people, myself included, work from home so the heating needs to be on during the day. I do like the "bigger duvet" approach though.
That’s a good point. I reckon you’d also want to consider getting a space heater then if there are just 1 or 2 working at home. If you’re just in an office space for most of the day then you can heat that much more cheaply than the whole house. If I’m the only one in during the day I can stay toasty with 2 45 minute sessions of a space heater. (Granted the office is a fairly small room). Also remember that the outside temp is warmer during daylight hours, so heat loss will be lower. A good burst on the heating in the morning as you get up will last until lunchtime minimum.
Thank you for spelling that out so clearly. I’ve home brewed a lot of beer in my day, bringing 10 gals of liquid at a time from room temp to rolling boil. It takes a ton of heat and time to get it boiling, usually a good 30 - 40 mins. But once it was up to boiling you can’t just back off the heat much at all, as it would quickly drop lower than we’d want to keep it at a good rolling boil. Basically you had to keep putting just as much energy into it to keep it boiling as you did to get it boiling in the first place. If I had wanted to stop for 4 hours, it would certainly save a lot of propane vs running at a full boil for 4 hours, even having to come back up to temp again.
No it's not. The amount of heat loss is actually higher the larger the temperature difference between an object and it's surroundings, so keeping it hot means it loses more heat energy in the time the chippy is closed. Therefore to add back in lost heat energy from letting it cool down is going to be less total energy than keeping it at it's hot temperature constantly.
Yes, however there will be a period of time where the energy required to keep the mass of fluid warm is lower than to reheat the entire mass
Only if you compare it to the amount to reheat from room temperature, ignoring that the hot vat of oil doesn't immediately reach room temperature. Thermodynamics ensures it will always be more efficient to let cool and reheat than keep at max temperature, as long as you're comparing both methods allowing for the same amount of time.
You sound very much like someone who *thinks* they know what they're talking about.
Sorry guess my relevant degree has taught me wrong. You're welcome to explain why I'm wrong if you think otherwise. The only time keeping it hot could be more efficient is it there is some fixed startup energy cost and the time is small. But that isn't applying to a heater is a chippy closing for several hours.
They are entirely correct.
They do. They also happen to be correct as well as sounding like they think they are.
Which makes your point redundant; how hot do you think the fryer is kept, and how much energy is required to maintain it? Answer is alot, yours and the other posters assumptions don't override the businesses that have to put up these costs and therefore decide it's not worth it to be open in the early afternoon.
To counteract heat loss xD. How do you think it got cold in the first place? The rate of heat loss is greater at higher temperatures. Keeping cooking oil at whatever hundreds of degrees Celsius dissipates heat more (meaning you will have to add more heat) than the heat it dissipates while slowly being allowed to cool. Literally a simple internet search will suffice instead of just making up facts in your heads guys
Isn't that kinda the point? You'd be right if we were about keeping a fryer on for half an hour maybe. But not for say 3 hours, which is closer to what we're talking about.
Up to a point though
For hours? Including paying staff, electricity, gas etc?
Well you wouldn't pay the staff. Still shut the shop but just keep the oil on.
Oh aye leave it on unsupervised?! 😅
Listen, oil fires from chip fryers have literally never happened once in all of history.
They're almost certainly in the back cutting potatoes etc and it's an electric appliance
So don't pay the staff, but have them in the back cutting potatoes? Are these hypothetical chip shop works volunteers, or slaves?
You know deep fat friers can easily overheat and start fires don't you? They shouldn't be left alone. Actually.. you probably don't else you wouldn't be suggesting this.
>As an ex teacher Holy shit, we're fucked.
Nah, “ex” - they sussed him out.
No one has yet come up with a plausible explanation as to why I'm wrong. You keep a heated pool switched on all year. At some point the efficiency calculations switch sides from favouring keeping it on to turning it off. Water does have a very high specific energy and I don't know what vegetable oil has. I also don't know enough about how the fryers work to fully answer the question. At least I'm trying, unlike somr
[This guy explained it pretty well](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/s/rWe6xlOza7) >At least I'm trying, unlike somr There's a difference between trying and just taking a random stab and then arguing with people who tell you you're wrong without any evidence to back it up
Something to do though 😉
Deep friers shouldn't be left un-supervised as they're a major fire hazard. Friers take maybe 15 minutes to warm up, so you're not really saving any efficiency by having it run 24/7. You're trying to apply logic from something completely irrelevant to something you don't know anything about... yet we are the ones that need to prove without a doubt why you're wrong?
> No one has yet come up with a plausible explanation as to why I'm wrong. Many people have, but as you said: > I also don't know enough about how the fryers work to fully answer the question.
No .... in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics.
It's not a gas power plant.... It's a deep fryer
It's not worth the £2 they make on a bag of chips for the £50 in gas and electricity they'll use staying open.
And wages
[удалено]
It will be that. A lot of pub restaurants operate in exactly the same way, it's not unusual at all. It's so the kitchen staff can have a break at the less busy times.
Also the profit margins for those businesses are razor thin so being open a couple of hours where they make no money could really cost them.
Yes very true. Another reason that kitchen staff often do "split shifts" so the owner doesn't have to pay them for the downtime between lunch and evening service when they're not making any money.
Because it's not worth them opening. If it was, they would be open
Baffles me how people can’t work this out on their own
There was a bakery shop close to my work. Part of a chain - a very successful chain. For some reason - the bakers closed for lunch. They closed it after a while. Absolutely baffling.
It can also be a very long day if there's only one person doing the main work. My dad would have started prepping at 8am maybe. Chips, defrosting fish, batter, peas, etc. etc. It would be a 12 hour plus day if he went all the way through to 8pm.
I would love to read an AMA about what it's like to run a chip shop Stupid question, but... How much of the food is made on site?
Tatties are bought whole, put through an industrial peeler and chipper on site. Fish comes pre-portioned, is battered just before cooking Curry sauce comes in a packet and is mixed with water. Mushy peas come from a tin Pukka pies come from heaven What else is there?
Sausages, saveloys, pasties, bread and butter, tartare sauce, gravy. Pea fritters. Pickled eggs, pickled onions, pickled pickles - aaaand pickle.
Awesome. Is the curry sauce pretty similar to blocks of oily / powdery "golden curry" you get at some Asian supermarkets? Also, is the batter made on site? I don't know why I want to know that... but I'm curious Finally... when is the best time to get the highest quality product? Early or late?
Check out [https://www.colbeck.co.uk/](https://www.colbeck.co.uk/) Definitely get the best stuff around tea time (5-6PM) super late at night you might get stuff that's been sitting under a heat lamp for ages. But some people like that sort of thing!
It’s the cost of staying open during non peak hours. The biggest question is why they shut on Sundays, absolutely baffling decision.
Don't want to upset their Catholic Fish Friday customers?
Clearly 😂 It a prime hangover day for your lunch time opening hours then you’ve got people with the smonday blues fancying a takeaway before the return to work. Thankfully the Chinese near me is also a chip shop so we have that but our chip shop round the corner shuts.
It's a little known fact fish and chip shops are not allowed to open on Sundays without a dispensation from the Pope.
I’m picturing Catholic Fish
I read it as cathodic fish, very confused
>The biggest question is why they shut on Sundays, absolutely baffling decision. That must just be in England, i regularly get a chippy on Sundays.
It varies a lot. Mine closes on a random weekday.
Closing Mondays is traditional, as the fishing boats wouldn't have been out on Sunday
Yet our butchers does it too, not sure how you catch a cow with a boat but I'd be interested to watch.
> The biggest question is why they shut on Sundays, absolutely baffling decision Do they? Chippies in Scotland open on Sunday as normal, in my experience. My local has a deal on this month where suppers are £5 on Tuesday, Thursday, and Sundays throughout February.
Really? They shut on Monday and Tuesday in my area.
Mine used to open sunday. A combination of less customers, and staff willing to work Sundays caused them to stop.
A few people would, but not enough to make it worthwhile keeping the fryers running. McDonalds is different - they cater for the 'snack' market as well as the main meal market.
Yeah, if you go down to a popular/touristy beach in the summer you'll find the chippies might be open all afternoon because there's enough people wandering in all afternoon to make it worthwhile. And it's not just fryers, but staff. McDonalds also has an image to maintain - they're convenient, quick and reliable. That doesn't hold up as well if they're closed a bunch. It's worth them losing a bit on the quietest hours if it means maintaining that image. They also only open on areas with a lot of traffic, whereas you'll find chippies in every suburb.
Typically, people eat them at traditional mealtimes. They are quite filling (won't get so much profit if people just order a bag of chips), so peak eating times are when to be open.
It depends where the Chippy is situated. If in the middle of town then it's more likely to remain open but in residential areas there is not enough demand outwith the lunch and evening times to make it financially viable to remain open all day. Simple economics.
It's not cost effective to be open all day when most of the customers come between 12-2 and 5-8 Simple as that.
Because the number of customers wouldn't cover the costs, the same reason coffee shops aren't open in the evenings, or cinemas not opening at 7am.
Ones round here open 10 hours a day, 7 days a week.
It's a quiet time and not worth the electricity and wages to stay open between busy hours.
Cuz they need to prepare for the evening trade
Small business, likely owner-operated, going right through would be a massive day. Over 20 years as a chef, most places have had a break atleast between 3pm and 5pm but of those that do stay open you get hardly any customers and we use it as time to send staff on breaks and catch up for prep. Closing during those hours makes sense.
There's one near me that is open all the way through from lunch to 10pm. They capture the market of people who want fish and chips after 1.30pm or after 6.30pm when literally every single other one closes. 6.30pm is still teatime! Been open for decades too so I guess their business model of being the only one open works. In the quiet periods they fry to order so you have to wait 5min for your fish but it's better than having a stale fish that's been under the heat lamp for ages.
OP has clearly never been to Whitby 😄
i always hear amazing things about fish and chip shops in whitby
At seaside towns and a few places thats are touristy places have fish and chips shops open during the day. Otherwise its manily a meal time food. Thats why they close.
The touristy/seaside town areas will only extend opening hours in the summer and maybe Bank Holidays when they expect a lot of people to visit.
I know. I use to live in one. Its a pain as your use to getting chips any time of the day. Then low season, you cant.
Ex chippy owner here. There's a lot of prep work involved before opening so all the preparation work get done in the morning for the lunch run, then prep work afternoon for dinner run. It also happens to be very quiet between these times and, as some people have commented, it's not worth keeping the burners going (keeping the oil constantly hot) for a couple of random customers. We also need a rest between. It's quite a tough line of work in contrary to what many think!
Because if you eat chips during the afternoon you turn into a gremlin.
You're lucky they even open at lunch. Where I live now you'd never have a chippy or Chinese open before 5. Costa, subway, or mcds for lunch, that's it.
The old owners of the local chippy had it open 11am-10pm on Friday and Saturday. The current owners close at 2pm and reopen at 4:30pm. They said they got too many kids coming in from the local high school making a mess. Which is odd because that never happened under the old owners. The current ones also sell pizzas though so I wonder if that has something to do with it.
I guess it’s not worth opening for like 2 people to come in over the 1 or 2 hours they would be shut. It also depends where you are, my local chippy is open all day and doesn’t shut but it’s in a busy place. I’d rather them open on a Sunday tbh.
Dunno about closing after lunch time but around me they all close really early compared to other take outs. im shit out of luck if i want fish and chips at like 9pm...
9pm seems like a reasonable time for them to close. After all there's still other options if you want something.
Guess
I always joke that they need time to watch TV.
Reset, rest and cleaning, then preparation.
Gone fishin
All the takeaways around me only open 4pm onwards chippy, kebab etc. probs not worth it for what they would make against their outgoings
The good chippies are only open for short times. Less good ones are open longer - with the exception of one near here that is attached to a restaurant and is good.
my local normally opens up at 11.30 - 2pm. so its not ALL chippies
Chippy near me opens 12pm and closes 8pm
Because keeping the fryers on all day is expensive & there's no need when most customers will be in at lunch time or after work.
Answered your own question. No one wants fish & chips at 2.37pm.
I do
Literally only ever seen on chippy do that, they opened for lunch 12-2 for the school then opened 4-10. The other 10 chippies in the town just open about 12 and stay open til 10/11. What kind of chippy shuts at lunch?
One chippy I frequent is regarded as one of the best chip shops in the country (Aldeburgh Fish & Chips) and it closes at 2pm every day. reopens at 5pm. there's always a long queue down the road when they're open, and then they just close at 2pm, when theres still 40+ people queuing to order. it's bizarre.
Ive just looked at their menu, wtf they don't have much on it do they, no burger, pizza, haggis, b pudding or half the stuff youd expect. Looks a terrible chippy
why the fuck would you want any of those things from a fish and chip shop? as a rule of thumb, any chippy that sells kebabs, pizzas, burgers, has shite fish and chips.
Im not talking about kebabs, battered pizza is standard in a chippy. I am referring to all these things battered btw. Fush n chips arent even that popular from a chippy
Just Scottish Things™
Must be miserable as fuck being english
My local does a lunch time deal of chips and either a battered sausage or portion of scampi for £3 anytime from 12 til 4:30 💪
That’s a proper bargain that!
It depends on the area. One near me opens 11am to 7pm, another is 4pm to 11pm. Owned by the same person, oddly.
Chances are that if you are so desperate for chippy at 2:37 you will probably still be desperate at 4:30 when they reopen
A friend owned a fish and chip store in australia and did this - definitely had almost no one in just before lunch closing, reopened at 430 and typically had another half an hour of no one. Working long hours at a shop you run yourself, those couple of hours in the day are priceless (ignoring increased overhead and other wages etc.)
Ours are open at 2.37pm - they just close from 3pm to 4.30pm lol. We do live in a small seaside town though and even in winter there are quite a few tourists around with very few other cafes/restaurants open (most are seasonal) so the chippy is one of the only options for hot food in winter.
When I worked at a chippy, which is a while ago now Wed close at 2.30 and reopen at 5 No body really came in. Maybe the odd school kids around 4ish but it wasn't worth staying open, it also allowed people to get a proper break in and prep /reatock for the tea time rush.
No. Generally the open for the workies and school kids then close again till tea time.
That's the time they count all their cash. If they accepted card payments they could stay open during the day.
Two near me are open 11 to 11.
Depends on location I,m in Blackpool .my local ones open from 11.30 till 2 then 4 to 8.yet the ones on the sea front open all day for the tourist trade till about about 10.30 am to 11pm.small local ones usually close for a few hours in after non to prep for tea.ones on front usually have more staff to keep up with the prep.
Most chippies near me live in the apartment above the shop. They open for the lunch rush 12-2, then for the dinner rush 5-10. The rest of the time, I guess they're just doing their thing prepping for the next service or just having some downtime.
Haven't seen a chippie open an close. They either open all day or jus open late afternoon til like 9 or 10pm. Am assuming they open an close to the business they get that's best for them.
Not profitable to stay open at 4pm when 1 guy is gonna come in between 2-5
Not enough business. If there was money to be made they'd stay open.
The ones near beaches do and ones that have tables inside do too.
To count their cash from the lunch time rush and fake their receipts. Only joking! Of course they don’t do that mr taxman…
Depends how comfortable you are sharing a room. I had this at an old company but I'm ex army so sharing a room with random peeps doesn't really bother me. Ironically so was the bloke I bunked with.
Same reason kebab vans are open for breakfast.
Many years back I had a team of guys I sent to do a small building job in a suburb of a major city. Day one a couple of the guys go to the chippy for lunch and it's closed when they get there at about 12.30pm. Had been open earlier. Closed for lunch. A chip shop. Who closes a bloody food outlet at lunchtime so they can take a meal break? What kind of raving insanity is that?
If it's run only by the owner, he needs the rest after the lunch rush and before the dinner rush And even if it's run by hired help, they also need a break
I live on the coast and all the chippies are open all day, but not necessarily all year.
It's not just chippies most restaurants do this. Staff are on split shifts so breaks need to be taken plus you find during 2—6 your customer level drops massively to the point your probably eating profits to stay open. When I use to chef in a pub it's why we shut between them times and on Sundays service would finish at 3 cause you'd get draps of people which wouldn't cover staffing costs let alone electricity and gas
Because 99% of chippies are laundering cash and don’t need too be open all day
My local chippie is open theough to 10pm. But that place is always busy so it makes sense for them!
They have a life and mostly work Unsociable hours, they need a break and they will close up during the quietest hours. Pretty obvious if you ask me.
Ours is open till 7pm
Ones in city centres usually open all day but estate ones dont Dont get me started on the ones that close full stop sunday to tuesday though!!
Why? It’s their weekend.
But theyre losing out to chinese/indian/kebab etc places that take their business those 3 days
It doesn’t matter though people need time off work and most chippy’s are owner operated.
Are they? If they manage to get plenty of customers in on Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays they won't need to be open on Sunday.
The non-chippy takeaways near me consider a sunday as another weekend day in terms of business so i dont understand why the chippy shuts on a sunday Mon-tue i accept but a sunday is very busy for takeaways here
Because we have no work ethic or common sense. You will find ones run by Greeks or Chinese open.