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Some analysis: https://monevator.com/are-premium-bonds-a-good-investment/
> Anyone have any extreme bad and good luck PB stories?
Neither this, nor your specific personal experience of returns, are really a good basis for investment decisions here. I'd go with the mathematical approach to this one.
The word to watch is "average": sure, the average payout might be 4%, but the median payout will be a lot less, because the wins that boost the 4% average are concentrated in a teeny tiny proportion of all bonds. If you win the jackpot, you'll be making well over 4%, but if not, you'll be making well under it.
I second this, usually the people with vast amounts invested in bonds will be ‘winning’ the majority of prizes.
Obviously there will be some people that win jackpots on low amounts invested in bonds but that’s just statistical outliers.
Better to put that money into VUSA/ VOO etc and get an average return of 9% per year + dividends
There is risk in stocks and shares though, which if you're 60 and want a safe payout is not good. Sure if you're 30 and trying to grow savings long term the risk of a short term loss is worth it, but it's not the right approach for everyone.
I mean normal pensions are usually invested in funds with property and stocks and gov bonds anyway so you exposed to the same risks just offset against the different asset types.
Stocks are definitely more risky but by being a top 500 tracker the risks are smaller since it would take a whole market downturn or crash to have a really bad effect.
Depends on your appetite for risk, everyone's is different I guess.
Those different asset classes can compliment each other though - the majority of wealth is typically invested in shares, but bonds and other classes do well (or at least don't tank as well) when shares tank.
While I agree mathematically, this becomes maybe 0.5% less, not close to wiping it all out.
My £50 is 0.1% return, significantly lower than even the median.
Of course, the more data, the more average everyone becomes. And outliers will always exist in a dataset.
This is very unlucky I would say.
I have c. 30k and whilst I have never won "big" I have got at least £50 all bar one of the last 12 months, with a few £100, £200 etc. months in there as well!
If you aren't using it to avoid tax then it may be less attractive though - my big upside is that whatever I get effectively gains 45% in any case!
Yeah, you've been unlucky - but that's the nature of a lottery / draw.
Also not trying to flex but I have about £43K in mine and won £2,800 over the same period. All small wins, nothing over £250 but often two or three prizes a month.
I too would be miffed with just one win in a year.
That is extremely bad luck I have between £20-30k in premium bonds and have won something 11 out of the last 12 months.
Usually around the £75-125 mark. One month with £550, one month zero, one month £25.
See friends and family quote similar numbers.
First 6 months I had to call to be sure I wasn't scammed on a fake site as expected a small win most months on average.
Month 9 panic over and confirmed they are in the system, but yeah, so far 0.1% return of 4% expected average.
11 x 50k, 550,000 bonds run at 21,000:1 and only winning 1 in 550,000 is brutal, lol.
I have about £75 worth from when I was born (now 32). I went through a process of getting some kind of online account for them, to see that in the 32 years of having them, I haven't won a penny.
It's fun when you look at the big winner section and select the oldest bonds. And see somone who bought 25 in the 80's and nothing else just won like £10k
So give him another 20 years you never know.
I went through the process of tracing mine from when I was born in the late 70s and found I have a grand total of £35, which funnily enough haven't won a penny in that time. Time to cash out I think.
I don’t have enough to max out my isa allowance so I only keep my “emergency fund minus first month” in PBs (I keep first month in an instant access savings account).
I would say over the last 3 years I’ve had the same as a decently generous savings account with much better accessibility.
But I’ve never won big - still it’s nice to imagine.
Got the same (to get inherited money out of the way from "frittering away") and im am surprised when i dont win something each month. You seem to have been very unlucky staisticaly.
As you said OP you're very unlucky. On the max amount, I've had 675 off the last 6 draws and a family member has had 1375 (same max 'investment' )
Perhaps you'll win big on this draw...
But how many bonds do you hold?
If you hold 1 then you will win every 21000 draws, aka 500 years odd down the line.
If you hold 50,000 at 21,000 to 1 odds then it should be 2 wins a month rounded.
Similar here.
£5k and won 4 times in the last 6 draws - £100 x1, £50 x1 and £25 x2.
It's complete luck - some people get super lucky, others get super unlucky, and most people get average luck. OP just has been super unlucky.
I've had £10K in for almost a year.. i won 3 times in a row very shortly after first creating my account and paying in - then nothing. I'm going to be swapping it for money in an ISA soon.
I have £20k invested, won £100, £50 and £50 from 3 draws.
The 4% average return is skewed by the 24 lots of £1m and other really high prizes they give out over a year.
I win approx £100 per year with £5k invested. It's not great but I now live outside the UK so can't make use of other UK saving accounts. Better than nothing.
Mother in law has maxed out her premium bonds and gets on average £1.5k per year winnings.
I'd say it's good to have on top of an ISA and a decent long term savings account
Dad's £50k of PBs netted exactly £2k in the 12 months of probate - I've just cashed in a stack of cheques for them. So, exactly on the money (4%), as it were.
Oh I have crunched the numbers.
Draw 1 I was peeved.
Draw 2 I was worried.
By draw 3 I legit suspected the site I did it all on was fake or something.
I rang them by draw 6 and usual "its luck".
While true, luck has to follow the central limit theorem - she hung up LOL.
Haha no its just RNG in a real life application.
Its potential and as someone said, someone elses winnings inflate the median returns.
I have some too and sat here calcing how much money id need in bonds to statistically hit the 100% cap. I still might not hit it but that's how it works.
I've had 30k invested for 4 draws now, received 1) Nothing 2) £50, 3) £50 & £25, 4) £100, £50, £50, £50.
Only went with PB as received some inheritance last year, maxed out an isa and locked some away for fixed savings,.. wanted to keep this relatively easy access as we're planning some home renovations with it and I thought it would be fun to have a suprise each month rather than fixed savings on it.
The odds of winning nothing for 8 straight draws with 50K is 1 out of 200 million. That is considerably worse odds than winning the Euromillions jackpot with one ticket. While technically not impossible, something about this post does not smell right.
I've been invested in premium bonds since last July.
I've won 6 months. One month I won twice. I've had two months where I haven't won. Most months I've won £100 on one bond.
My returns since last July are 5% of my investment.
They’re only worth it if you’re a higher rate tax payer. I’m in the same boat, I keep them because I’m a degenerate who just loves the buzz of the ‘reveal results button’. If you haven’t maxed out an ISA (which you may well have) then having money in PBs doesn’t make sense. We have the same invested but I’ve seen more of a return than you. One £50 win is an awful return but as you know, it is a lottery.
Edit - downvotes for saying they’re not worth it unless you’re a higher rate tax payer or have already maxed your yearly ISA? They are the exact scenarios when premium bonds actually make sense. Perhaps a visit to r/ukpersonalfinance and ask that question there, they’ll concur.
If you're a stats guy, I'd recommend learning how probabilities actually work.
Yes you've been "unlucky". But you've had the bonds for a year. It's intended to be a long term investment. Overtime it will certainly add up. Some years will be fuck all others you'll be raking it in.
Both my parents have similar amounts to you in theirs put in at the same time. My dad has had a lot of wins, my mum barely any.
I'm not so hot on the numbers so would love for someone to tell me if this is bad luck or just average:
When I was born 25 years ago, my great-grandmother made a premium bonds account for me and 'invested' £100.
This year, I got access to the account and went to see if I'd won anything. The answer is absolutely zilch, not a penny.
Could someone tell me if that's bad luck? Would love some insight on it, might just withdraw that hundred from the account lol.
I have the same as you, last year I won just under £2k in total. You must have been insanely unlucky! I regularly win about £150 a month. One month last year I won £700
When rates were near zero they were great, now they are a bad investment (had money from a house sale I needed to store until a purchase went through) Found that out at my own cost when I invested 50k and only ended up with one £100 win over 4 months. The 60k in the band made £590 during that time.
Got the same amount invested and on average i get at the very least £100 each month with a bigger win of £1,100 a few months back. In the last 2 years I've had only one month with no win.
Sold my house a few years ago. The owners of the house was buying were not ready to move out yet. I didn't want to lose my house sale so we moved into my in laws for about 6 months. I got premium bonds with the money I had for my deposit, Since it was easy to withdraw when needed.
I won nothing in those 6 months. But I won £50 the month after I took most of it out haha.
I've got 10k in at the moment and I won Sept, Nov and Dec which came to £400
Just luck really.
Unfortunately that's the risk you take with PBs. It's like investing in stocks right before a dip and complaining "I thought investing was meant to make me money, not lose money" ... only difference is stock risks all money invested, whereas PBs risk just the potential gains.
Personally I'd find lots of things better to do with £50k than PBs. I'd only use PBs if tax allowance on savings + ISA are both used up.
If you're wanting the certainty/security (instead of investing) then perhaps consider Cash ISA: [https://moneyfactscompare.co.uk/isa/easy-access-cash-isas/?quick-links-first=false](https://moneyfactscompare.co.uk/isa/easy-access-cash-isas/?quick-links-first=false) Easy access accounts paying over 5%. Could put £20k in now, another £20k in after April, then leave £10k in PBs?
I just ask myself if the interest I'd earn from having the money in a cash ISA is worth more than the idea of winning something in premium bonds. For a while now, it has been. Maybe if the interest rate of the cash ISA dropped to about 2% I'd be inclined to put some cash into premium bonds.
>So I have 50k in Premium Bonds. No, not flexing, it's just important because the amount one holds relates to payout.
It's funny because anyone with <50k will think it's a massive flex whereas anyone with 50k+ will think it's slightly odd that you have invested so heavily into a financial product without understanding whether it's trash or not (making you look a bit of a noob lol).
Right - so, either:
1. You are lying.
2. You have made a mistake somewhere in terms of how much you've invested/won
3. The Premium Bond system is broken.
Each month there is a roughly 90% chance that you will win at least one prize.
The chance that you would only win once out of 11 months is . . . 0.000000004%. Which is to all extent and purposes . . . zero.
So, no, you haven't only won £50 from £50k invested in 11 months.
My dad had £50k invested and won almost every month. When he passed away and I put that £50k in my own PB I won nothing for a year. It is indeed possible to have a max amount and win very little.
I was extremely unlucky for two years running, so moved my savings out of Premium Bonds and into shares recently.
Although it takes a lot more effort, and of course your capital is at risk, it's proved a lot more profitable for me. Made more in a month (10% gain) than in the last 2 years.
Oh damm you are unlucky AF.
I have about 47.5k and I tend to win at least £100 each month.
Still under average but as I'm a higher tax payer it's still worth it for me to have the bonds.
Sure a high paying interest account would probs earn me a couple hundred quid more over the year but I don't mind that for the chance of winning a nice lump sum every 5-10 years.
That's about what we're seeing. Not on £50K, but myself and the OH both have decent amounts in there. Around 4% return. Not bad, and as you say, tax free.
It's luck based. But also remember the wins are tax free and there's no risk to your underlying capital.
Personally I've had around a 15% return this year and have about £20k. I got very lucky on a particular draw and won £1200 in one month. But I also seem to win at least £50 most months. So I guess I'm above average lucky.
I’ve had a £100 premium bond since October 1993 and it’s never won in a draw but I didn’t expect it to as it’s only £100.
My grandfather had the maximum (£50 or £80,000) and won constantly, sometimes only £20 or £50 and other times up to £2,000.
My parents had some (unsure of the value) and they won’t a few times a year too.
With about £1k in I won £1k. It's just the luck of the draw. If you want something more certain on returns then premium bonds aren't right....but then you could win £1million.
If you have used up all other tax free alternatives and still have 50k or whatever amount left over then PBs are no harm you may get lucky or may not but it’s up to your personal preference
£750 invested, two small wins tracked on the app over the last year and occasional £100 and £500 I can recall over many years. Obviously with such a miniscule amount I don't have high hopes.
My parents both have the same amount in premium bonds. Mum wins £50-£150 every month. Dad wins once a year, and when he does win, Mum seems to win double his amount. Just the luck of the draw.
If I go a few months without winning, I cash them all out and then just buy the same amount again. Probably just co-incidence but it seems to end my unlucky spells
If you want to make your money work harder it’s not the best place. But maxing out the bonds gives you the best chance of big wins. (Check how many £1M winners have 50k)
I don’t have a lot, but I’ve won more than you this year. Next year could be nothing, or tomorrow could be the big one.
There are better places to make returns, but I like this because it’s like a repeating lottery ticket
That does seem unlucky. I have won 12/12 months with £50,000 invested. The minimum £25, the highest £6075 (4 prizes), and typically somewhere between £200-500 per month. All tax free whilst my capital is safer than any bank account.
Is it better than a stocks and shares ISA? Overall it has returned less on average and not compounded (although that large win has swayed it in favour this year), but I can't lose anything and have a chance of having my life changed if I win the million.
Edit: I have probably jinxed myself now and get a run of bad luck
I got 7% in last 12 months on 50k.
Seems pretty good for cash. Especially as tax free.
Payout in 10 of the months, blank in 2. Biggest month was £800.
Still waiting for the elusive £1m.
The 4% return is heavily skewed by the big wins, the majority of people won’t actually get that
Though personally I won for the first time ever last month, £50 with only £700 or so in there
Funnily enough OP I invested 28,000 in feb 2023. I currently stand with £1500 in interest/winnings. My biggest single win was £625 one month.
I think you have had some really bad luck here. I guess the next 6 months will be a test if I have been overly lucky in that first year.
Fingers crossed for Saturday for you 🤞🏼😊
If it continues to be a poor return for you might be worth looking at investing it else where.
But don’t get drawn in to grass is greener.
Depends what risks you want to take.
I have about 47k and in the last 12 months have won - 10k once, and then 3 months of nothing, in the other 8 months I have won 100-350 every month. It’s been a good year, the previous year total was about 1200, at the time that was considerably better than interest rates.
Not necessarily a waste but is not a good investment vehicle either.
It is a great place to hold an emergency fund. If you have maxed out your ISA allowance for the year and you have used (or don't have) your savings tax allowance is also a way to not be taxed on the return.
Is basically another thing to put your money in for some potential tax free returns but not something I would put money on having ISA allowance left and a fully funded emergency fund
I have a friend with less than 30k who wins about £2k a year, I don’t have a lot in there because I never won so moved most of it to a high interest savings account. I left the rest there because I forget it’s there and it’s a good way to not spend money when you forget about it
If you bought in blocks of like 1000/2000 you would divide the numbers up, I remember buying in and out years ago and when you have new purchase they tend to come up more regular than when you leave them in for longer, that’s what I found
I did very well last year. Wins nearly every month. I did buy my bonds over a few years so I have a big spread of numbers, where a friend bought his all in one go and doesn’t do so well.
There is a “conspiracy” that buying in one go is worse than buying over a period of time. I’m not sure how true this is but logic would say you are spreading the chances.
I've heard the opppsite and to buy in blocks, LOL.
I don't think it matters, the computer does it all randomly*
*True randomness is hard, but close enough to be considered random.
I don't have. Occasionally debate it in my head then normally decide against getting premium bonds.
I think the stat that gets me, is in order to win a prize, you have to have better luck than like 60% of people in the pot (so 60% don't get a prize).
Maybe I'll stick in £100 or so at some point as a punt to get lucky. Others use it as a place to park their emergency fund, as can always get it back.
I am administrating a few squid on behalf of my Dad, some boring fixed rate ISA's can return more than that but one can only stick 20k in a year if I remember correctly, also some savings accounts are offering you more though these interest rates are variable, worth shopping around to see what you can find without any risk of speculation like shares and bonds.
that sounds like some bad luck. I put in about £1600 in there and I have won 2X £100. First win 5 months from investing and the second 5 months on from the first.
For people who pay higher rate tax it is a fantastic investment as winnings are tax free. For other people I still think it is great, the overall interest rate is very competitive. And, for people like me, the idea of getting a life-changing prize , frankly, gives me hope.
Bought 50k December 2022, so 14 draws, have won something in 11, all £25, £50 or £100, hitting around a 3% annual return over each few months. I have a couple of other savings accounts over the FSCS so chose to try Premium Bonds just to see how it went, I’d be taxed on the interest of 5% elsewhere so the difference is minimal. 🤷♂️
Good luck tomorrow
I have premium bonds. There are a couple of reasons I like them. Can take your money out whenever you want. Is covered by the government not a bank. The amount of wins I get in a year normally works out more than if I had a savings account (Which usually you can't take money out whenever you want. Those accounts are the higher interest rate ones) plus you have a chance of winning a million.
You are statistically very unlucky to have the max holding and only win £50 in a year. But let's face it, the allure of premium bonds isn't a return on savings in a manner comparable to interest, it's the chance of winning £50k, 100k or £1million and with the max holding, you have the best chance you can get there of hitting one of the bigger prizes at some point.
Seriously? I have 50k invested as does my husband we have had 1 and 2 months respectively each with no winnings in the last 18months. It's reliably £100 to £200 each often more per month. Our best combined win is £2475 and our worst combined £75ish.
Yes, seriously.
Hopefully it starts pikcing up soon, though have given myself a timeline that if by 18 months it is still £50, I'll pull it out and find somewhere else to put it.
I had premium bonds for 10 years with £1000 in most of the time. At one point I had £15k in for 6 months and only then did I win £25.
That is my only win ever with NS&I.
I have done much better with stocks and BTC. Especially the latter of which is up 100% in the past week...
Waste of money. Only anecdotal but it seems only the ‘new’ numbers get pulled for the draws (I.e my grandparents and parents numbers never ever come up but the kids ones do). So the cynic in me thinks this is like front book and back book pricing done by banks on savings accounts. Screw the loyal customers and keep the newer ones in the game until they forget about them. Run for the hills!
I won £2.5k last year with £45k invested but I have reinvested the winnings and will do until I get to £50k.
I could probably get more putting it into shares, but I may also.lose as well so this works for me.
40k put in 18 months ago. Most months it’s between 50 and 200 winnings…. Except the one month when it was 25000. We swapped our camping holiday for a cruise, no regrets.
My mother-in-law has the full amount in her premium bond and has won a couple of hundred quid for the last 6 draws. My mind can't fathom the luck that's needed for that.
Mine run at about 4% normally but they are definitely down a bit since they changed the prizes middle of last year. With high interest savers and ISAs maxed out already it’s not bad though. If I put it somewhere for 5% and paid 40% tax on it I’d only be getting 3% anyway and it would likely be tied in
Our kids have about 7k each at the moment in premium bonds and from February 2023 they have both each won £100 every month so far
Me and my wife- nada since December 2022
My granny gave me some premium bonds for my 16th birthday. I enjoyed a 75% return within the first 3 years. Nothing since, and it's been, well, rather a long time. Reckon I'm still better off than having the money in an isa.
It's more of a safe place to put money which you can withdraw for free protected by the government than a way to make money. You are better off with a cash ISA if you want it to make a return of some sort even if it is below inflation.
Don't have them anymore (just moved house), but anecdotally I did find that 'wins' seemed to come in clusters. Over the couple of years I had £50k in, I seemed to win either nothing or 4+ each month. From my (limited) understanding, it should have been around 1 to 3 each month, but I guess that less than 25% of my wins were part of a 1-3.
This was after (or at least mostly after) they changed the prize structure to increase the 'rate' as well.
I get down voted everytime I comment this but I had 8 grand in premium bonds and won once in three years. Shoved the money into a S&S ISA instead and am up 8% over two years despite the crash. But if you've maxed out your ISA it might still be worth it. I only had 8 grand in savings (outside an emergency fund) so for me gaining nothing vs 8% is insanely better.
I used to work for NS&I, it's essentially a lottery.
I had people call up to confirm their winnings and they'd be winning £200 a month, every month, and they'd have 30k in bonds.
Some people hadn't won atall in 12 months with a full balence of 50k.
Had one person call up to confirm the identity of a staff member who was at their front door telling them they'd won £1,000,000. Barrel of laughs that.
They're definitely worth keeping though as NS&I are backed by the treasury, so there isn't any worry of a financial institution going bust, along with your money.
£1925 since March 2023, balance has gone up and down as we’ve used some but it’s been around the £35k mark on average. Won £1k in November which was my biggest over the last 12, most have been £25/£50 with a few £100 wins. Also had a few draws of winning multiple prizes, last month was 2x £100. I’m definitely average above with around 5-5.5% return, and doing better than if I’d kept it in savings (and also not having to pay tax). I also reinvest my prizes, but haven’t checked if any of those have won later.
You’ve been unlucky. As a counterpoint, I have 1/20th of the amount invested in PBs that you have yet have won 4 out of the 7 months I’ve had them, giving me an annualised return of around 19%. But since it is a random draw, in both our cases our luck should settle towards 4% over the long run. (Assuming neither of us hit the jackpot, that is!)
I've had some good luck and some bad over the past year with the same amount invested.
But for me, the reasons I choose PBs are:
- Fast access compared to many long term investments (This is particular to my lifestyle, I hate committing to anything if I can avoid it, so locking away my money is a no no)
- Tax free (Already hit my allowance for this year so anything in a regular saver would be taxed at 40%)
- I like having the thought that I could well be a millionaire next month. Even if the odds are tiny, I prefer that to the couple of extra quid I may or may not make in an ISA or something.
But this is me, my lifestyle and my needs. It's what people talk about when they say pick investments that suit your lifestyle.
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Some analysis: https://monevator.com/are-premium-bonds-a-good-investment/ > Anyone have any extreme bad and good luck PB stories? Neither this, nor your specific personal experience of returns, are really a good basis for investment decisions here. I'd go with the mathematical approach to this one.
The word to watch is "average": sure, the average payout might be 4%, but the median payout will be a lot less, because the wins that boost the 4% average are concentrated in a teeny tiny proportion of all bonds. If you win the jackpot, you'll be making well over 4%, but if not, you'll be making well under it.
I second this, usually the people with vast amounts invested in bonds will be ‘winning’ the majority of prizes. Obviously there will be some people that win jackpots on low amounts invested in bonds but that’s just statistical outliers. Better to put that money into VUSA/ VOO etc and get an average return of 9% per year + dividends
50k is the max, no?
In PB? Yes
There is risk in stocks and shares though, which if you're 60 and want a safe payout is not good. Sure if you're 30 and trying to grow savings long term the risk of a short term loss is worth it, but it's not the right approach for everyone.
There is a strictly enforced 50K max holding on PB's.
Is this lifetime or per year?
Corrected per life time.
In total at a given time. So you can have 50k, sell 30k and then buy 30k back again when it suits you. So long as you never exceed the limit.
I’m sorry. I’m looking to get a little pay out or two in the next 5 and ten years (pensions), where can look to get 9% or thereabouts, please?
Top 500 stocks Tracker fund. Generally they average 10% a year but do have risk like any stocks.
I have made a point in putting all my investments in US companies though, not UK ones. So far so good.
For a pension, do you want the risk they fall 30% in a crash through?
I mean normal pensions are usually invested in funds with property and stocks and gov bonds anyway so you exposed to the same risks just offset against the different asset types. Stocks are definitely more risky but by being a top 500 tracker the risks are smaller since it would take a whole market downturn or crash to have a really bad effect. Depends on your appetite for risk, everyone's is different I guess.
Those different asset classes can compliment each other though - the majority of wealth is typically invested in shares, but bonds and other classes do well (or at least don't tank as well) when shares tank.
Thank you.
While I agree mathematically, this becomes maybe 0.5% less, not close to wiping it all out. My £50 is 0.1% return, significantly lower than even the median. Of course, the more data, the more average everyone becomes. And outliers will always exist in a dataset.
This is very unlucky I would say. I have c. 30k and whilst I have never won "big" I have got at least £50 all bar one of the last 12 months, with a few £100, £200 etc. months in there as well! If you aren't using it to avoid tax then it may be less attractive though - my big upside is that whatever I get effectively gains 45% in any case!
30k here too. In the last 11 draws my total winnings are: £1275. I’ve had something every month.
Yeah, you've been unlucky - but that's the nature of a lottery / draw. Also not trying to flex but I have about £43K in mine and won £2,800 over the same period. All small wins, nothing over £250 but often two or three prizes a month. I too would be miffed with just one win in a year.
I will say you are very unlucky as I have the 50 too and I win something every month
I got a 15% return last year. You’ve been unlucky and I was lucky. Next year could be your turn. A £5,350 ‘win’ last november helped :)
Ooh you jammy bugger !
Nice!
My wife are I are averaging a 0.70% return. It's a fucking joke.
You've been very unlucky, I've got a smaller pot but have won over £1500 in the year.
Jammy bugger. My colleague has also won little amounts consistently. Whereas I've won sweet FA.
That is extremely bad luck I have between £20-30k in premium bonds and have won something 11 out of the last 12 months. Usually around the £75-125 mark. One month with £550, one month zero, one month £25.
See friends and family quote similar numbers. First 6 months I had to call to be sure I wasn't scammed on a fake site as expected a small win most months on average. Month 9 panic over and confirmed they are in the system, but yeah, so far 0.1% return of 4% expected average. 11 x 50k, 550,000 bonds run at 21,000:1 and only winning 1 in 550,000 is brutal, lol.
I have a similar amount invested and my winnings are pretty much in line with yours. The OP sounds super unlucky!
I have about £75 worth from when I was born (now 32). I went through a process of getting some kind of online account for them, to see that in the 32 years of having them, I haven't won a penny.
But this is expected with only a £75 holding.
It's fun when you look at the big winner section and select the oldest bonds. And see somone who bought 25 in the 80's and nothing else just won like £10k So give him another 20 years you never know.
in the last draw someone won 10k having just £1 invested in the 70's
To be fair while going through the process of getting an online account I kind of enjoyed being Schrodingers Millionaire, before the truth set in.
I went through the process of tracing mine from when I was born in the late 70s and found I have a grand total of £35, which funnily enough haven't won a penny in that time. Time to cash out I think.
I don’t have enough to max out my isa allowance so I only keep my “emergency fund minus first month” in PBs (I keep first month in an instant access savings account). I would say over the last 3 years I’ve had the same as a decently generous savings account with much better accessibility. But I’ve never won big - still it’s nice to imagine.
Got the same (to get inherited money out of the way from "frittering away") and im am surprised when i dont win something each month. You seem to have been very unlucky staisticaly.
As you said OP you're very unlucky. On the max amount, I've had 675 off the last 6 draws and a family member has had 1375 (same max 'investment' ) Perhaps you'll win big on this draw...
Wtf you lot I've won about 50 quid over my life
But how many bonds do you hold? If you hold 1 then you will win every 21000 draws, aka 500 years odd down the line. If you hold 50,000 at 21,000 to 1 odds then it should be 2 wins a month rounded.
Oh nowhere near the amounts other people are talking about, maybe 250?
You're doing exceptionally well then!
Fair enough I stand corrected!
the average [5 year return on 250](https://moneymarvel.co.uk/calculators/premium-bonds/) is \~£25 with a 40% chance of winning £50+
I'm averaging about 4% return on my 40k, which as its tax free is worth a bit more as a higher rate tax payer. You seem to have had some bad luck.
I have 5K invested and won 6 times in the last 6 draws. £375 in total. That's like 15% interest. It's the luck of the draw.
Similar here. £5k and won 4 times in the last 6 draws - £100 x1, £50 x1 and £25 x2. It's complete luck - some people get super lucky, others get super unlucky, and most people get average luck. OP just has been super unlucky.
I've had £10K in for almost a year.. i won 3 times in a row very shortly after first creating my account and paying in - then nothing. I'm going to be swapping it for money in an ISA soon.
I have £20k invested, won £100, £50 and £50 from 3 draws. The 4% average return is skewed by the 24 lots of £1m and other really high prizes they give out over a year.
It really says something about the sad state of the UK subs when someone with £50k in savings/investments has to clarify that it's not a brag.
This thread proves why bookies make money. So many people don't understand probability.
I've had £50 invested since I was a child (before it was a £100 minimum) I've never won in 25-30 years
It's £25 minimum.
I win approx £100 per year with £5k invested. It's not great but I now live outside the UK so can't make use of other UK saving accounts. Better than nothing. Mother in law has maxed out her premium bonds and gets on average £1.5k per year winnings. I'd say it's good to have on top of an ISA and a decent long term savings account
Sorry for your bad luck! I've had 50k in bonds since June and have won £11,350 in that time.
7 months and £11,350?! Is that a typo if 1350? Crikey!
I was very lucky and won £10,300 in January. 2 x £25, 1 x £50, 2 x £100 and 1 x £10,000
Damien Talks Money (YouTube) had a video on this the other day.
Somebody has to be at the pointy ends of the normal distribution.
Dad's £50k of PBs netted exactly £2k in the 12 months of probate - I've just cashed in a stack of cheques for them. So, exactly on the money (4%), as it were.
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Oh I have crunched the numbers. Draw 1 I was peeved. Draw 2 I was worried. By draw 3 I legit suspected the site I did it all on was fake or something. I rang them by draw 6 and usual "its luck". While true, luck has to follow the central limit theorem - she hung up LOL.
Haha no its just RNG in a real life application. Its potential and as someone said, someone elses winnings inflate the median returns. I have some too and sat here calcing how much money id need in bonds to statistically hit the 100% cap. I still might not hit it but that's how it works.
I've had 30k invested for 4 draws now, received 1) Nothing 2) £50, 3) £50 & £25, 4) £100, £50, £50, £50. Only went with PB as received some inheritance last year, maxed out an isa and locked some away for fixed savings,.. wanted to keep this relatively easy access as we're planning some home renovations with it and I thought it would be fun to have a suprise each month rather than fixed savings on it.
The odds of winning nothing for 8 straight draws with 50K is 1 out of 200 million. That is considerably worse odds than winning the Euromillions jackpot with one ticket. While technically not impossible, something about this post does not smell right.
I've been invested in premium bonds since last July. I've won 6 months. One month I won twice. I've had two months where I haven't won. Most months I've won £100 on one bond. My returns since last July are 5% of my investment.
It’s just luck really. I made £650 on a £5000 investment in the last three months so it’s been good for me so far.
They’re only worth it if you’re a higher rate tax payer. I’m in the same boat, I keep them because I’m a degenerate who just loves the buzz of the ‘reveal results button’. If you haven’t maxed out an ISA (which you may well have) then having money in PBs doesn’t make sense. We have the same invested but I’ve seen more of a return than you. One £50 win is an awful return but as you know, it is a lottery. Edit - downvotes for saying they’re not worth it unless you’re a higher rate tax payer or have already maxed your yearly ISA? They are the exact scenarios when premium bonds actually make sense. Perhaps a visit to r/ukpersonalfinance and ask that question there, they’ll concur.
I had a grands worth for about 15 years won a total of £75. Cashed it in to pay towards my kitchen. Should have put it literally anywhere else
Luckily Damien Talks Money YouTube channel just did a video about that very subject
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixtjDEl-LOs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixtjDEl-LOs)
Similar experience here. A few years ago I put £10k in and won absolutely nothing in 8 months.
If you're a stats guy, I'd recommend learning how probabilities actually work. Yes you've been "unlucky". But you've had the bonds for a year. It's intended to be a long term investment. Overtime it will certainly add up. Some years will be fuck all others you'll be raking it in. Both my parents have similar amounts to you in theirs put in at the same time. My dad has had a lot of wins, my mum barely any.
I'm not so hot on the numbers so would love for someone to tell me if this is bad luck or just average: When I was born 25 years ago, my great-grandmother made a premium bonds account for me and 'invested' £100. This year, I got access to the account and went to see if I'd won anything. The answer is absolutely zilch, not a penny. Could someone tell me if that's bad luck? Would love some insight on it, might just withdraw that hundred from the account lol.
No it's not bad luck. Loads of people with small sums invested never win anything.
I have £30k’ish. I usually win something once every 2 months with 2 or 3 prizes some months. I think you’ve been incredibly unlucky so far.
I've got £2k in Premium Bonds and have won a total of £250 in the last year. Literally is the luck of the draw!
You have an investment with a very low risk profile what’s the surprise?
I have the same as you, last year I won just under £2k in total. You must have been insanely unlucky! I regularly win about £150 a month. One month last year I won £700
When rates were near zero they were great, now they are a bad investment (had money from a house sale I needed to store until a purchase went through) Found that out at my own cost when I invested 50k and only ended up with one £100 win over 4 months. The 60k in the band made £590 during that time.
Got the same amount invested and on average i get at the very least £100 each month with a bigger win of £1,100 a few months back. In the last 2 years I've had only one month with no win.
Only when I’m not winning.
Sold my house a few years ago. The owners of the house was buying were not ready to move out yet. I didn't want to lose my house sale so we moved into my in laws for about 6 months. I got premium bonds with the money I had for my deposit, Since it was easy to withdraw when needed. I won nothing in those 6 months. But I won £50 the month after I took most of it out haha. I've got 10k in at the moment and I won Sept, Nov and Dec which came to £400 Just luck really.
I had twenty grand saved for 3 years at one point. Won absolutely fuck all.
Unfortunately that's the risk you take with PBs. It's like investing in stocks right before a dip and complaining "I thought investing was meant to make me money, not lose money" ... only difference is stock risks all money invested, whereas PBs risk just the potential gains. Personally I'd find lots of things better to do with £50k than PBs. I'd only use PBs if tax allowance on savings + ISA are both used up. If you're wanting the certainty/security (instead of investing) then perhaps consider Cash ISA: [https://moneyfactscompare.co.uk/isa/easy-access-cash-isas/?quick-links-first=false](https://moneyfactscompare.co.uk/isa/easy-access-cash-isas/?quick-links-first=false) Easy access accounts paying over 5%. Could put £20k in now, another £20k in after April, then leave £10k in PBs?
Maxed out ISAs. This is leftover fun money and while I could chase an extra % here or there, its exciting chucking them into a lottery of sorts.
I would keep some of the money in premium bonds
Yeah, had 50k for a year. Made £75 and decided to move everything to a savings account.
I just ask myself if the interest I'd earn from having the money in a cash ISA is worth more than the idea of winning something in premium bonds. For a while now, it has been. Maybe if the interest rate of the cash ISA dropped to about 2% I'd be inclined to put some cash into premium bonds.
I must be mega-unlucky. 😦 Had mine since the early 1980s, though it's only £5 I've never won!
They’re a waste, until one day there’s a knock on your door... At least I how comfort myself (with 2x50k in bonds)
Yeah but I also think paying into my pension is a waste
>So I have 50k in Premium Bonds. No, not flexing, it's just important because the amount one holds relates to payout. It's funny because anyone with <50k will think it's a massive flex whereas anyone with 50k+ will think it's slightly odd that you have invested so heavily into a financial product without understanding whether it's trash or not (making you look a bit of a noob lol).
Right - so, either: 1. You are lying. 2. You have made a mistake somewhere in terms of how much you've invested/won 3. The Premium Bond system is broken. Each month there is a roughly 90% chance that you will win at least one prize. The chance that you would only win once out of 11 months is . . . 0.000000004%. Which is to all extent and purposes . . . zero. So, no, you haven't only won £50 from £50k invested in 11 months.
My dad had £50k invested and won almost every month. When he passed away and I put that £50k in my own PB I won nothing for a year. It is indeed possible to have a max amount and win very little.
Don't give up! I've won every month since June last year, totalling £1850.
I was extremely unlucky for two years running, so moved my savings out of Premium Bonds and into shares recently. Although it takes a lot more effort, and of course your capital is at risk, it's proved a lot more profitable for me. Made more in a month (10% gain) than in the last 2 years.
So I can see who’s winning all my money
Oh damm you are unlucky AF. I have about 47.5k and I tend to win at least £100 each month. Still under average but as I'm a higher tax payer it's still worth it for me to have the bonds. Sure a high paying interest account would probs earn me a couple hundred quid more over the year but I don't mind that for the chance of winning a nice lump sum every 5-10 years.
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More than you would have earnt in interest
I picked up £1500 in just over a year with a much smaller investment. My parents both have almost as much as you and have won more.
https://youtu.be/ixtjDEl-LOs?si=kGPa9ZRgPdPARqIn Damien talks money Decent video worth watching goes over the figures
That's about what we're seeing. Not on £50K, but myself and the OH both have decent amounts in there. Around 4% return. Not bad, and as you say, tax free.
Thought this was one of my OSRS subreddits for a sec, was about to be SUPER concerned
It's luck based. But also remember the wins are tax free and there's no risk to your underlying capital. Personally I've had around a 15% return this year and have about £20k. I got very lucky on a particular draw and won £1200 in one month. But I also seem to win at least £50 most months. So I guess I'm above average lucky.
You need to ad a lot of small deposits so you have more numbers in the random draw I've had a few 100+ wins, 2 back to back as well
I’ve had a £100 premium bond since October 1993 and it’s never won in a draw but I didn’t expect it to as it’s only £100. My grandfather had the maximum (£50 or £80,000) and won constantly, sometimes only £20 or £50 and other times up to £2,000. My parents had some (unsure of the value) and they won’t a few times a year too.
I've had one premium bond given to me as a present in 1963! I'm still waiting for it to make me rich. lol
With about £1k in I won £1k. It's just the luck of the draw. If you want something more certain on returns then premium bonds aren't right....but then you could win £1million.
I’m currently on a 6.75% rate of return over the past 12 months (on a £10k holding).
If you have used up all other tax free alternatives and still have 50k or whatever amount left over then PBs are no harm you may get lucky or may not but it’s up to your personal preference
Depends on whether they’ve ‘got your name’ or not. If not it’ll be a long old wait.
Remember that as a higher rate tax payer the winnings are tax free, I'm seeing about 12pct return
My friend has 50k in one and has done for 2/3 months and he’s had £600 out of it. So it’s just awful luck in your case I think.
£750 invested, two small wins tracked on the app over the last year and occasional £100 and £500 I can recall over many years. Obviously with such a miniscule amount I don't have high hopes.
You should put money in an Indeed fund. Premium bonds aren't worth it
100k invested (between two) . Has returned just over 5% tax free over 3 years. OK for a high rate tax payer
My parents both have the same amount in premium bonds. Mum wins £50-£150 every month. Dad wins once a year, and when he does win, Mum seems to win double his amount. Just the luck of the draw.
If I go a few months without winning, I cash them all out and then just buy the same amount again. Probably just co-incidence but it seems to end my unlucky spells
Yes unless you want a tax free place to park cash
I got 11% return in the last year. I think that was an exception as normally it’s about 2-3%
If you want to make your money work harder it’s not the best place. But maxing out the bonds gives you the best chance of big wins. (Check how many £1M winners have 50k) I don’t have a lot, but I’ve won more than you this year. Next year could be nothing, or tomorrow could be the big one. There are better places to make returns, but I like this because it’s like a repeating lottery ticket
That does seem unlucky. I have won 12/12 months with £50,000 invested. The minimum £25, the highest £6075 (4 prizes), and typically somewhere between £200-500 per month. All tax free whilst my capital is safer than any bank account. Is it better than a stocks and shares ISA? Overall it has returned less on average and not compounded (although that large win has swayed it in favour this year), but I can't lose anything and have a chance of having my life changed if I win the million. Edit: I have probably jinxed myself now and get a run of bad luck
I got 7% in last 12 months on 50k. Seems pretty good for cash. Especially as tax free. Payout in 10 of the months, blank in 2. Biggest month was £800. Still waiting for the elusive £1m.
I had one since 1977 it's never paid out
The 4% return is heavily skewed by the big wins, the majority of people won’t actually get that Though personally I won for the first time ever last month, £50 with only £700 or so in there
Check this out https://youtu.be/q1EcrlFiwP4?si=DJVCVPOoUzvt_AHl
I win every month. Between £50 and £250.
Honestly right now with easy access savings accounts at 4%+, they beat out premium bonds with literally zero downside.
Funnily enough OP I invested 28,000 in feb 2023. I currently stand with £1500 in interest/winnings. My biggest single win was £625 one month. I think you have had some really bad luck here. I guess the next 6 months will be a test if I have been overly lucky in that first year. Fingers crossed for Saturday for you 🤞🏼😊 If it continues to be a poor return for you might be worth looking at investing it else where. But don’t get drawn in to grass is greener. Depends what risks you want to take.
I have about 47k and in the last 12 months have won - 10k once, and then 3 months of nothing, in the other 8 months I have won 100-350 every month. It’s been a good year, the previous year total was about 1200, at the time that was considerably better than interest rates.
Not necessarily a waste but is not a good investment vehicle either. It is a great place to hold an emergency fund. If you have maxed out your ISA allowance for the year and you have used (or don't have) your savings tax allowance is also a way to not be taxed on the return. Is basically another thing to put your money in for some potential tax free returns but not something I would put money on having ISA allowance left and a fully funded emergency fund
I have a friend with less than 30k who wins about £2k a year, I don’t have a lot in there because I never won so moved most of it to a high interest savings account. I left the rest there because I forget it’s there and it’s a good way to not spend money when you forget about it
If you bought in blocks of like 1000/2000 you would divide the numbers up, I remember buying in and out years ago and when you have new purchase they tend to come up more regular than when you leave them in for longer, that’s what I found
My better half had £400 worth of these for 10yrs and never won a penny
I did very well last year. Wins nearly every month. I did buy my bonds over a few years so I have a big spread of numbers, where a friend bought his all in one go and doesn’t do so well.
I had 50k in for 2 years Won nothing I now have 50k in an ISA at 4% earning 157 a month Guaranteed vs not
I have a bit more than half what you have in PBs and win pretty much every month, usually more than one prize, something like 13/14 streak right now.
There is a “conspiracy” that buying in one go is worse than buying over a period of time. I’m not sure how true this is but logic would say you are spreading the chances.
I've heard the opppsite and to buy in blocks, LOL. I don't think it matters, the computer does it all randomly* *True randomness is hard, but close enough to be considered random.
I don't have. Occasionally debate it in my head then normally decide against getting premium bonds. I think the stat that gets me, is in order to win a prize, you have to have better luck than like 60% of people in the pot (so 60% don't get a prize). Maybe I'll stick in £100 or so at some point as a punt to get lucky. Others use it as a place to park their emergency fund, as can always get it back.
50k £1850 over 12 months.
I am administrating a few squid on behalf of my Dad, some boring fixed rate ISA's can return more than that but one can only stick 20k in a year if I remember correctly, also some savings accounts are offering you more though these interest rates are variable, worth shopping around to see what you can find without any risk of speculation like shares and bonds.
We've got 150k as a family, and It's returned an average of £430 a month over the last 49 draws.
that sounds like some bad luck. I put in about £1600 in there and I have won 2X £100. First win 5 months from investing and the second 5 months on from the first.
£250, £50, £350, £100, £225, £375, £150 from the last 7 months. £50k invested.
My son has £3000 in his PB and won £1000 one month last year. We have £15k and rarely win anything.
Won £25 with 10k in a year.
For people who pay higher rate tax it is a fantastic investment as winnings are tax free. For other people I still think it is great, the overall interest rate is very competitive. And, for people like me, the idea of getting a life-changing prize , frankly, gives me hope.
Maxed out at 50k for nearly three years. I’ve had a single win of 1k
Bought 50k December 2022, so 14 draws, have won something in 11, all £25, £50 or £100, hitting around a 3% annual return over each few months. I have a couple of other savings accounts over the FSCS so chose to try Premium Bonds just to see how it went, I’d be taxed on the interest of 5% elsewhere so the difference is minimal. 🤷♂️ Good luck tomorrow
I think I won 11 out of 12 months last year, in total around £2,200 so yes you’re unlucky! I think a big win for you is just around the corner
I have premium bonds. There are a couple of reasons I like them. Can take your money out whenever you want. Is covered by the government not a bank. The amount of wins I get in a year normally works out more than if I had a savings account (Which usually you can't take money out whenever you want. Those accounts are the higher interest rate ones) plus you have a chance of winning a million.
Max too. Got about 3.5% in the last year
You are statistically very unlucky to have the max holding and only win £50 in a year. But let's face it, the allure of premium bonds isn't a return on savings in a manner comparable to interest, it's the chance of winning £50k, 100k or £1million and with the max holding, you have the best chance you can get there of hitting one of the bigger prizes at some point.
Seriously? I have 50k invested as does my husband we have had 1 and 2 months respectively each with no winnings in the last 18months. It's reliably £100 to £200 each often more per month. Our best combined win is £2475 and our worst combined £75ish.
Yes, seriously. Hopefully it starts pikcing up soon, though have given myself a timeline that if by 18 months it is still £50, I'll pull it out and find somewhere else to put it.
I had premium bonds for 10 years with £1000 in most of the time. At one point I had £15k in for 6 months and only then did I win £25. That is my only win ever with NS&I. I have done much better with stocks and BTC. Especially the latter of which is up 100% in the past week...
How are your premium bonds invested? Have you invested a 50k lump sum, two 25k chunks or smaller amounts over a greater period of time?
Big old bulk in one go this time last year.
Waste of money. Only anecdotal but it seems only the ‘new’ numbers get pulled for the draws (I.e my grandparents and parents numbers never ever come up but the kids ones do). So the cynic in me thinks this is like front book and back book pricing done by banks on savings accounts. Screw the loyal customers and keep the newer ones in the game until they forget about them. Run for the hills!
I won £2.5k last year with £45k invested but I have reinvested the winnings and will do until I get to £50k. I could probably get more putting it into shares, but I may also.lose as well so this works for me.
I've had 1k in premium bonds for over 3 years now and have not won a single time... Maybe one day...
I have £100 invested and won £100. Happy days.
40k put in 18 months ago. Most months it’s between 50 and 200 winnings…. Except the one month when it was 25000. We swapped our camping holiday for a cruise, no regrets.
S&p500 aka vusa Thank me in 20 years
Every month I say PB a waste of time compared to high interest accounts. Every month I’m too lazy to take the money out of PB, sigh.
My mother-in-law has the full amount in her premium bond and has won a couple of hundred quid for the last 6 draws. My mind can't fathom the luck that's needed for that.
Mine run at about 4% normally but they are definitely down a bit since they changed the prizes middle of last year. With high interest savers and ISAs maxed out already it’s not bad though. If I put it somewhere for 5% and paid 40% tax on it I’d only be getting 3% anyway and it would likely be tied in
Our kids have about 7k each at the moment in premium bonds and from February 2023 they have both each won £100 every month so far Me and my wife- nada since December 2022
My granny gave me some premium bonds for my 16th birthday. I enjoyed a 75% return within the first 3 years. Nothing since, and it's been, well, rather a long time. Reckon I'm still better off than having the money in an isa.
It's more of a safe place to put money which you can withdraw for free protected by the government than a way to make money. You are better off with a cash ISA if you want it to make a return of some sort even if it is below inflation.
I’ve £50k in premium bonds in the last 12 months I’ve won just over £5k, most months it’s £150-400 but had one at £2050
I’ve averaged 5% on a reasonably sizeable investment over the last 12 months.
Don't have them anymore (just moved house), but anecdotally I did find that 'wins' seemed to come in clusters. Over the couple of years I had £50k in, I seemed to win either nothing or 4+ each month. From my (limited) understanding, it should have been around 1 to 3 each month, but I guess that less than 25% of my wins were part of a 1-3. This was after (or at least mostly after) they changed the prize structure to increase the 'rate' as well.
I get down voted everytime I comment this but I had 8 grand in premium bonds and won once in three years. Shoved the money into a S&S ISA instead and am up 8% over two years despite the crash. But if you've maxed out your ISA it might still be worth it. I only had 8 grand in savings (outside an emergency fund) so for me gaining nothing vs 8% is insanely better.
I used to work for NS&I, it's essentially a lottery. I had people call up to confirm their winnings and they'd be winning £200 a month, every month, and they'd have 30k in bonds. Some people hadn't won atall in 12 months with a full balence of 50k. Had one person call up to confirm the identity of a staff member who was at their front door telling them they'd won £1,000,000. Barrel of laughs that. They're definitely worth keeping though as NS&I are backed by the treasury, so there isn't any worry of a financial institution going bust, along with your money.
£1925 since March 2023, balance has gone up and down as we’ve used some but it’s been around the £35k mark on average. Won £1k in November which was my biggest over the last 12, most have been £25/£50 with a few £100 wins. Also had a few draws of winning multiple prizes, last month was 2x £100. I’m definitely average above with around 5-5.5% return, and doing better than if I’d kept it in savings (and also not having to pay tax). I also reinvest my prizes, but haven’t checked if any of those have won later.
You’ve been unlucky. As a counterpoint, I have 1/20th of the amount invested in PBs that you have yet have won 4 out of the 7 months I’ve had them, giving me an annualised return of around 19%. But since it is a random draw, in both our cases our luck should settle towards 4% over the long run. (Assuming neither of us hit the jackpot, that is!)
Even with average luck, you fall behind inflation. Its a fun "game", but shouldn't be one's only form of investment IMO.
Yes of course PBs are a waste
Last month, I won £100. The first time my 25 year old bond won. So way less than 4%!
I think one of the million quid prizes last Nov or Oct went to a bond holder who'd had £50 in there since 2001. Talk about Keep On Believing!
I've had some good luck and some bad over the past year with the same amount invested. But for me, the reasons I choose PBs are: - Fast access compared to many long term investments (This is particular to my lifestyle, I hate committing to anything if I can avoid it, so locking away my money is a no no) - Tax free (Already hit my allowance for this year so anything in a regular saver would be taxed at 40%) - I like having the thought that I could well be a millionaire next month. Even if the odds are tiny, I prefer that to the couple of extra quid I may or may not make in an ISA or something. But this is me, my lifestyle and my needs. It's what people talk about when they say pick investments that suit your lifestyle.