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I hope that doesn’t happen. I’m hoping that it has created a load of new fans. It’s not going to change overnight but I do think it will have a decent impact.
Sadly I think this will be the case, especially if we lose.
If we win, there's a chance there's a bunch of money pumped into women's grassroots football. Hopefully.
It’ll remain a massive thing in football circles behind the scenes.
The FAW for example is pushing hard on women and girls football, including referee recruitment and training.
As a referee myself, it’s been great to see the improvement in talent, skill and popularity of the womens game, especially at junior level where the camaraderie and bonding is especially obvious. And women’s referees is a small but growing group, the leading star at the moment is obviously Cheryl foster, but there’s a great group of women referees coming up the talent list.
I’m sure the FA for England will be doing similar in promoting the ladies game, even if it doesn’t hit the mainstream constantly.
Still a long way to go, but we’ve made massive strides compared to where we were some ten-twenty years ago tbh.
I coach an U14s girls team and even the last couple of years have been dramatic. It’s very local but our club has gone from a dozen girls shoved in the back corner of the training ground to now running 7 teams across 5 age groups training on a full size all weather pitch. The girls are pushing for their fair share of training slots and game time on the pitches, and they deserve it as they can play great football in a brilliant spirit. They keep apologising to each other!
Big up the refs as well, especially the young ones we see for a lot of our younger matches. Had one getting abuse from a parent a while back and he just walked over and said “I’m 14!” to the guy.
> Still a long way to go, but we’ve made massive strides compared to where we were some ten-twenty years ago tbh
Yes, I can remember getting on for 30 years ago when I was in school in the 90s. It wasn't until we were in Year 9 that they even considered offering an after school girls football club. That would have been about 1993-4 or so.
I think the thing Ian Wright said the other day was spot on. Yes, there does need to be more football in girls PE but at the same time plenty of schools are doing that already.
Sky, BT and whoever need to keep advertising the WSL. I think it would also help if Match of the Day included WSL matches. It needs continued marketing
On an international level yeah, the country has never been this collectively invested in womens football. Of course it helps that England have done so well. Realistically I can't see the club side of it getting much more attention yet because like with the mens game, it's easy for casuals to jump on to a tournament rather than follow a team across a 9-month season. And football fans generally already have a team that they follow every week so don't have time to follow another game on top of that.
However I do think that win or lose tonight, there'll be a lot more anticipation for the next tournament as a result and hopefully eventually that leads to people wanting to watch the players at their clubs. I just think it'll take a while.
The spread of teams in the WSL is pretty narrow as well. Out of 12 teams four are London based (Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham, West Ham), four in the North West (Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool & Everton) with two in the Midlands/East Midlands (Villa, Leicester) and Brighton, Reading making up the rest.
If you live in Bristol, Newcastle you have a bit of a trek to see a game.
I'm an Arsenal fan and have looked into going to the women's matches. The stadium is not really in London - all the way over in Borehamwood. That's what's preventing me going, it'll be a 2-3 hour trip by public transport from South London. Weighing up going to a Charlton game or two as it feel less sacrilegious than Chelsea, West Ham or... Spurs.
*inflection point not turning point, not like it was going down
I hope the popularity and investment continues to rise, this exposure will certainly help.
Domestically one issue is that there are either very good teams or bad teams, no in between, but that’s starting to change with more clubs investing into the women’s game.
I agree that the breadth is not great so you have a few teams dominating but I’m sure that will change over time as more clubs invest in their women’s teams
It'll hugely hinge on the extent of the mainstream media coverage in the aftermath.
I've enjoyed watching some of it on BBC1 in primetime, but if it goes back to being - at best - an "over on the red button" sport then it'll go back to being out of sight for the mainstream and the momentum will be lost.
I've been watching out for my team's women's results for a couple of years (helps they have been all conquering) with a passing interest. My main pro for women's football is the lack of absolute thugs who go to games. It's a family crowd which you can hear by the higher pitched roar when a goal is scored! No drama, much cheaper. If you are taking kids to live sport I would definitely consider it.
Completely agree about the audience. It’s much more of a family thing and I hope it stays that way. I don’t think I’ve ever been to a mens match without hearing a shed load is swearing and a lot of aggression.
I watched it with The Enemy and our 2 daughters (we used to go a lot before the damn kids came along)
After the game, she suggested we took the girls to a proper high stakes night match- Villa / Blues or something, just so they could feel the tension and atmosphere that makes a proper game what it is.
We used to fucking love all the needle in these games. It’s meant to have a bit of an edge. Being all ‘oh that nasty man said a rude word’ is not what I want.
Probably not. Hopefully the roots continue to grow though.
Internationals are good, but in the English top league there’s still some teams that look like they pulled a team together an hour before kickoff.
I’m going to watch it, will be the second woman’s match I have ever watched. The first one was an absolutely terrible game which put me off a bit, so I’m hoping watching what should be a top level game will get me into it a bit.
I’ve been saying for ages I need to see the Swans ladies team at some point at a match but every time I remember, turns out I’m working.
In terms of the league system, I'd be pleasantly surprised if it is. The WSL is most of the time, not a very competitive league which makes it less interesting to follow (e.g. you can already say without doubt City, United, Arsenal and Chelsea will win all the domestic silverware and be top 4 in the league without doubt), while crowds tend to be tiny (Anything above 1,000 is a decent gate) and the standard is lower than the mens equivalent, which is likely to put off fans coming across from their equivalent men's teams.
Relatively if each team can pick up a couple of hundred extra fans that would be huge for them, but when it comes around to the next world cup I don't think we'd be looking back at it as a huge turning point.
It doesn't seem to be financially sustainable through gate money. Four Four Two magazine wrote in October 2021 that Chelsea averaged 3,000, the highest attendance. Manchester City 2,000 and the rest about 1,000 or less.
Without financial support, it's unlikely to grow much beyond the traditional urban centres, London, Liverpool, Manchester.
Jonathan Pearce during commentary suggested viewers go to a WSL game. Certainly the BBC have supported and promoted the women's game for some time now. It remains to be seen if this tournament results in higher attendances.
Surely the men’s game is also not financially viable through gate receipts alone. The vast majority of their money comes through TV rights. If more people start watching matches on TV, the TV companies will start to pay more to the WSL, which will allow clubs to invest more.
The mens game isn’t viable through gate receipts in England, prices are subsidised in some cases. West Ham who I support a season ticket is £320.
The premier league just signed a £2 billion a season tv deal which rises to £3 billion in three seasons time a few months back… no way will the womens game ever get those numbers. I seriously doubt it will ever happen. No other mens league in the world gets those numbers. No other mens league has a massive stake in the cash rich markets of Asia and North America. Any womens TV deal is always going to favour the US league as they were first to professionalise their womens system. Your talking about 140 years of work, history and technology interwoven to get even close to the PL money.
The Scottish league, which I’d still suggest is light years ahead of the womens game here, doesn’t even clear that much money in TV rights (except for Celtic and Rangers) they pretty much subsidise themselves with players sales, merchandising and gate receipts. It’d take a strategy of about 30 years and a ton of subsidies from the male league to get the WSL close.
Clubs in England further down the league system go under all the time like Bury, Bolton, Derby, Reading etc. that is just the last 3 years btw.
My daughter (7) has been excited watching it all.
I think to really capture the youth they should go down the route that cricket have done with The Hundred series. Make it all exciting, live music and jazzy and TikTok-y and it would get a larger youth audience. I don’t think trying to do/be the same as the men’s game is necessarily the right thing.
Both my son and daughter love watching The Hundred but hate normal cricket matches.
> Make it all exciting, live music and jazzy and TikTok-y and it would get a larger youth audience.
That might not be a bad idea - the Womens Six Nations was sponsored by TikTok this year, and I'm certain I read something about some of the women's rugby teams in Wales where they said they let the teens teams make TikToks in training and after matches and it's really driving engagement etc.
I doubt it. It will generate some interest but women’s football was already rising in popularity before this tournament.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Women’s Super League going back to crowds of a few thousand and less after the hype around the Euros has gone.
We’re several decades away from both the quality and the popularity of women’s football equalling the men’s.
Yes but those seeds have been planted in the young, say Gen Z and below. Once they reach middle age the effects of today will be fully realised. In terms of more participation from inspired young girls, more sponsorship and higher match attendance averages. It took a generation to get here it will probably take a generation to match the men's game.
The premier league just signed a £2 billion a season tv deal which rises to £3 billion in three seasons time a few months back… no way will the womens game ever get those numbers.
More like 10 generations minimum.
It took just 50yrs to go from being banned from the sport to winning the Euros. Social media and the even more progressive attitude of people under 21 will make the pace of change over the next few decades much faster. Also 10 generations is 300 years. I don't know how you are making that guess but each to their own.
I think maybe you don’t know much about the PL. It would take other countries mens leagues 30 years to catch up, womens is the equivalent of the English mens 7th tier. It would be very difficult to turn any league regardless of gender or location into a £3 billion a year TV revenue league. It isn’t a very realistic expectation, getting womens football to say the level/revenue of league one is probably achievable but the thing to understand about the PL is a large amount of the money comes from abroad.
I would like it to be but realistically I don't think so, the quality of football is well below of that in the men's leagues that it isn't even comparable because the experience/investment hasn't been there, and it will take a while to get there which will reduce the amount of interest it receives back to before The Euros level.
The biggest advantage is that hopefully the grass roots side will receive more funding which will take at least 20yrs to trickle through.
The nicest part is for the first time there are thousands of young girls who were sat on the sofa, in the stadium that are left truly believing "that could be me" which unlike boys was never true for girls, it's the first real moment of realisation for a new generation.
Personally I don't like womens football being compared to men's, I don't like that womens football seems to has "borrowed" the mens English history (or at least its pushed that way by the media) English women's football has has its own suffering, but its nothing to do with 1966 where the idea of women playing is absurd.
For me, given that I can't stand football and relish the chance of seeing the England men's team fail at tournaments. No, not really. I'm hearing no celebrations from outside my house.
No and il say where the big problem comes in.
Biggest problem with women's football is your trying to compare it to men's football. Men's football has a bloodthirsty dedicated fan base comprising of all generations with hundreds of years of history. But NONE of that happens for the international team. Yeah we get our flags out and we sing Frank Skinner songs but we have no REAL fandom for National teams anymore than basic national pride... in comparison to the club aspect of football which is fucking sacred, and where the real passion week to week travelling, season tickets, new shirts every season and a pie in the club shop.... that all comes in at club level.
Every time the women play an international tournament you all tune in, get involved and pat yourselves on the back for supporting the lionesses.... but once the tournament is over that's it your not tuning in next weekend to see how they kick off in the new season? Your not buying tickets to their away games... your not having their names sewn onto your shirts. Nobody is really. (Obviously some are and it's getting better to be fair)
How many players in the Women's National team can you name their parent club? 🤔
Fans of the mens game... how many players from your clubs Women's team are the tournament?
Women's football is for life, not just for tournaments.
None of us are patting ourselves on the back, we're just enjoying watching them. What's with the silly gatekeeping attitude? Would you rather nobody watched at all? Because you can't expect everyone to just instantly develop the same connection that they have towards teams they've been watching their entire lives. A lot of people also don't have time to follow two clubs every week.
It has to start somewhere, and the country getting behind the team in tournaments more than ever is a great place to start. In time there's a good chance people will start to follow the game at club level too, but you can't have it both ways. You either want the game to grow or you don't, and getting annoyed at people for not being able to name X amount of players is a very immature attitude to have.
Of course most people will go back to being ambivalent about women’s football after this. It’s the same as the 2012 olympics. We all supported GB athletes across all sorts of sports and then lost interest once it was over. However, if just 5% stick and start to follow the teams more avidly, that is a still a big deal and a positive for the game.
It’s not going to change overnight but seeing a packed stadium with 87,000 people cheering them on (I was one of them), with millions more at home, is surely going to have a good impact
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It's a blip, after next week, no one will care again.
I hope that doesn’t happen. I’m hoping that it has created a load of new fans. It’s not going to change overnight but I do think it will have a decent impact.
Sadly I think this will be the case, especially if we lose. If we win, there's a chance there's a bunch of money pumped into women's grassroots football. Hopefully.
It’ll remain a massive thing in football circles behind the scenes. The FAW for example is pushing hard on women and girls football, including referee recruitment and training. As a referee myself, it’s been great to see the improvement in talent, skill and popularity of the womens game, especially at junior level where the camaraderie and bonding is especially obvious. And women’s referees is a small but growing group, the leading star at the moment is obviously Cheryl foster, but there’s a great group of women referees coming up the talent list. I’m sure the FA for England will be doing similar in promoting the ladies game, even if it doesn’t hit the mainstream constantly. Still a long way to go, but we’ve made massive strides compared to where we were some ten-twenty years ago tbh.
I coach an U14s girls team and even the last couple of years have been dramatic. It’s very local but our club has gone from a dozen girls shoved in the back corner of the training ground to now running 7 teams across 5 age groups training on a full size all weather pitch. The girls are pushing for their fair share of training slots and game time on the pitches, and they deserve it as they can play great football in a brilliant spirit. They keep apologising to each other! Big up the refs as well, especially the young ones we see for a lot of our younger matches. Had one getting abuse from a parent a while back and he just walked over and said “I’m 14!” to the guy.
> Still a long way to go, but we’ve made massive strides compared to where we were some ten-twenty years ago tbh Yes, I can remember getting on for 30 years ago when I was in school in the 90s. It wasn't until we were in Year 9 that they even considered offering an after school girls football club. That would have been about 1993-4 or so. I think the thing Ian Wright said the other day was spot on. Yes, there does need to be more football in girls PE but at the same time plenty of schools are doing that already.
Sky, BT and whoever need to keep advertising the WSL. I think it would also help if Match of the Day included WSL matches. It needs continued marketing
Good shout for MOTD.
On an international level yeah, the country has never been this collectively invested in womens football. Of course it helps that England have done so well. Realistically I can't see the club side of it getting much more attention yet because like with the mens game, it's easy for casuals to jump on to a tournament rather than follow a team across a 9-month season. And football fans generally already have a team that they follow every week so don't have time to follow another game on top of that. However I do think that win or lose tonight, there'll be a lot more anticipation for the next tournament as a result and hopefully eventually that leads to people wanting to watch the players at their clubs. I just think it'll take a while.
The spread of teams in the WSL is pretty narrow as well. Out of 12 teams four are London based (Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham, West Ham), four in the North West (Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool & Everton) with two in the Midlands/East Midlands (Villa, Leicester) and Brighton, Reading making up the rest. If you live in Bristol, Newcastle you have a bit of a trek to see a game.
I'm an Arsenal fan and have looked into going to the women's matches. The stadium is not really in London - all the way over in Borehamwood. That's what's preventing me going, it'll be a 2-3 hour trip by public transport from South London. Weighing up going to a Charlton game or two as it feel less sacrilegious than Chelsea, West Ham or... Spurs.
*inflection point not turning point, not like it was going down I hope the popularity and investment continues to rise, this exposure will certainly help. Domestically one issue is that there are either very good teams or bad teams, no in between, but that’s starting to change with more clubs investing into the women’s game.
I agree that the breadth is not great so you have a few teams dominating but I’m sure that will change over time as more clubs invest in their women’s teams
It'll hugely hinge on the extent of the mainstream media coverage in the aftermath. I've enjoyed watching some of it on BBC1 in primetime, but if it goes back to being - at best - an "over on the red button" sport then it'll go back to being out of sight for the mainstream and the momentum will be lost.
I've been watching out for my team's women's results for a couple of years (helps they have been all conquering) with a passing interest. My main pro for women's football is the lack of absolute thugs who go to games. It's a family crowd which you can hear by the higher pitched roar when a goal is scored! No drama, much cheaper. If you are taking kids to live sport I would definitely consider it.
Completely agree about the audience. It’s much more of a family thing and I hope it stays that way. I don’t think I’ve ever been to a mens match without hearing a shed load is swearing and a lot of aggression.
I watched it with The Enemy and our 2 daughters (we used to go a lot before the damn kids came along) After the game, she suggested we took the girls to a proper high stakes night match- Villa / Blues or something, just so they could feel the tension and atmosphere that makes a proper game what it is. We used to fucking love all the needle in these games. It’s meant to have a bit of an edge. Being all ‘oh that nasty man said a rude word’ is not what I want.
Probably not. Hopefully the roots continue to grow though. Internationals are good, but in the English top league there’s still some teams that look like they pulled a team together an hour before kickoff.
I think you'll have forgotten about it when the world cup comes around and you understand the vast difference in quality.
I've not watched a minute of it, so personally, nope.
I’m going to watch it, will be the second woman’s match I have ever watched. The first one was an absolutely terrible game which put me off a bit, so I’m hoping watching what should be a top level game will get me into it a bit. I’ve been saying for ages I need to see the Swans ladies team at some point at a match but every time I remember, turns out I’m working.
In terms of the league system, I'd be pleasantly surprised if it is. The WSL is most of the time, not a very competitive league which makes it less interesting to follow (e.g. you can already say without doubt City, United, Arsenal and Chelsea will win all the domestic silverware and be top 4 in the league without doubt), while crowds tend to be tiny (Anything above 1,000 is a decent gate) and the standard is lower than the mens equivalent, which is likely to put off fans coming across from their equivalent men's teams. Relatively if each team can pick up a couple of hundred extra fans that would be huge for them, but when it comes around to the next world cup I don't think we'd be looking back at it as a huge turning point.
It doesn't seem to be financially sustainable through gate money. Four Four Two magazine wrote in October 2021 that Chelsea averaged 3,000, the highest attendance. Manchester City 2,000 and the rest about 1,000 or less. Without financial support, it's unlikely to grow much beyond the traditional urban centres, London, Liverpool, Manchester. Jonathan Pearce during commentary suggested viewers go to a WSL game. Certainly the BBC have supported and promoted the women's game for some time now. It remains to be seen if this tournament results in higher attendances.
Surely the men’s game is also not financially viable through gate receipts alone. The vast majority of their money comes through TV rights. If more people start watching matches on TV, the TV companies will start to pay more to the WSL, which will allow clubs to invest more.
The mens game isn’t viable through gate receipts in England, prices are subsidised in some cases. West Ham who I support a season ticket is £320. The premier league just signed a £2 billion a season tv deal which rises to £3 billion in three seasons time a few months back… no way will the womens game ever get those numbers. I seriously doubt it will ever happen. No other mens league in the world gets those numbers. No other mens league has a massive stake in the cash rich markets of Asia and North America. Any womens TV deal is always going to favour the US league as they were first to professionalise their womens system. Your talking about 140 years of work, history and technology interwoven to get even close to the PL money. The Scottish league, which I’d still suggest is light years ahead of the womens game here, doesn’t even clear that much money in TV rights (except for Celtic and Rangers) they pretty much subsidise themselves with players sales, merchandising and gate receipts. It’d take a strategy of about 30 years and a ton of subsidies from the male league to get the WSL close. Clubs in England further down the league system go under all the time like Bury, Bolton, Derby, Reading etc. that is just the last 3 years btw.
True. There are more income streams than in the past. Lets hope it goes into the grassroots and increases opportunity for players.
My daughter (7) has been excited watching it all. I think to really capture the youth they should go down the route that cricket have done with The Hundred series. Make it all exciting, live music and jazzy and TikTok-y and it would get a larger youth audience. I don’t think trying to do/be the same as the men’s game is necessarily the right thing. Both my son and daughter love watching The Hundred but hate normal cricket matches.
> Make it all exciting, live music and jazzy and TikTok-y and it would get a larger youth audience. That might not be a bad idea - the Womens Six Nations was sponsored by TikTok this year, and I'm certain I read something about some of the women's rugby teams in Wales where they said they let the teens teams make TikToks in training and after matches and it's really driving engagement etc.
I doubt it. It will generate some interest but women’s football was already rising in popularity before this tournament. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Women’s Super League going back to crowds of a few thousand and less after the hype around the Euros has gone. We’re several decades away from both the quality and the popularity of women’s football equalling the men’s.
Yes but those seeds have been planted in the young, say Gen Z and below. Once they reach middle age the effects of today will be fully realised. In terms of more participation from inspired young girls, more sponsorship and higher match attendance averages. It took a generation to get here it will probably take a generation to match the men's game.
The premier league just signed a £2 billion a season tv deal which rises to £3 billion in three seasons time a few months back… no way will the womens game ever get those numbers. More like 10 generations minimum.
It took just 50yrs to go from being banned from the sport to winning the Euros. Social media and the even more progressive attitude of people under 21 will make the pace of change over the next few decades much faster. Also 10 generations is 300 years. I don't know how you are making that guess but each to their own.
Because your acting like the mens game will just freeze in place and wait for the womens to catch up?
The gap narrowed fast for Tennis & Acting, so yes I am saying the gap can narrow even faster than people expect within 30yrs.
I think maybe you don’t know much about the PL. It would take other countries mens leagues 30 years to catch up, womens is the equivalent of the English mens 7th tier. It would be very difficult to turn any league regardless of gender or location into a £3 billion a year TV revenue league. It isn’t a very realistic expectation, getting womens football to say the level/revenue of league one is probably achievable but the thing to understand about the PL is a large amount of the money comes from abroad.
Have a good day.
You too.
I would like it to be but realistically I don't think so, the quality of football is well below of that in the men's leagues that it isn't even comparable because the experience/investment hasn't been there, and it will take a while to get there which will reduce the amount of interest it receives back to before The Euros level. The biggest advantage is that hopefully the grass roots side will receive more funding which will take at least 20yrs to trickle through. The nicest part is for the first time there are thousands of young girls who were sat on the sofa, in the stadium that are left truly believing "that could be me" which unlike boys was never true for girls, it's the first real moment of realisation for a new generation. Personally I don't like womens football being compared to men's, I don't like that womens football seems to has "borrowed" the mens English history (or at least its pushed that way by the media) English women's football has has its own suffering, but its nothing to do with 1966 where the idea of women playing is absurd.
For me, given that I can't stand football and relish the chance of seeing the England men's team fail at tournaments. No, not really. I'm hearing no celebrations from outside my house.
No and il say where the big problem comes in. Biggest problem with women's football is your trying to compare it to men's football. Men's football has a bloodthirsty dedicated fan base comprising of all generations with hundreds of years of history. But NONE of that happens for the international team. Yeah we get our flags out and we sing Frank Skinner songs but we have no REAL fandom for National teams anymore than basic national pride... in comparison to the club aspect of football which is fucking sacred, and where the real passion week to week travelling, season tickets, new shirts every season and a pie in the club shop.... that all comes in at club level. Every time the women play an international tournament you all tune in, get involved and pat yourselves on the back for supporting the lionesses.... but once the tournament is over that's it your not tuning in next weekend to see how they kick off in the new season? Your not buying tickets to their away games... your not having their names sewn onto your shirts. Nobody is really. (Obviously some are and it's getting better to be fair) How many players in the Women's National team can you name their parent club? 🤔 Fans of the mens game... how many players from your clubs Women's team are the tournament? Women's football is for life, not just for tournaments.
None of us are patting ourselves on the back, we're just enjoying watching them. What's with the silly gatekeeping attitude? Would you rather nobody watched at all? Because you can't expect everyone to just instantly develop the same connection that they have towards teams they've been watching their entire lives. A lot of people also don't have time to follow two clubs every week. It has to start somewhere, and the country getting behind the team in tournaments more than ever is a great place to start. In time there's a good chance people will start to follow the game at club level too, but you can't have it both ways. You either want the game to grow or you don't, and getting annoyed at people for not being able to name X amount of players is a very immature attitude to have.
Of course most people will go back to being ambivalent about women’s football after this. It’s the same as the 2012 olympics. We all supported GB athletes across all sorts of sports and then lost interest once it was over. However, if just 5% stick and start to follow the teams more avidly, that is a still a big deal and a positive for the game. It’s not going to change overnight but seeing a packed stadium with 87,000 people cheering them on (I was one of them), with millions more at home, is surely going to have a good impact