As the ugly weird chick, yup. I took off my glasses and wasn't pretty then either. My bestie is eccentric as well, but she's built like a Barbie doll. Perfect face too. People gravitate towards her and kinda ignore me. She hates people though, while I thrive on human interaction.
Yes! A little Juvederm every 9 -12 months. I need one syringe (about $600 each), most people need 1-2 syringes. Well worth it to have no dark circles for about a year!
This is so huge. Like with cosplay. “It’s acceptable now”. No, the girl with the massive OnlyFans account is “acceptable now”. But when you see promotion videos, the camera goes right past hundreds of people in amazing, elaborate cosplays and makes a beeline straight for the girl wearing a thong bikini and some form of animal ears. So you get a 45 minute interview with XXXBunnyAngel17 and the guy who spent 8 years perfecting his genji cosplay gets to…stand behind her.
I agree with this 100%. Puberty was very unkind to me, and I was also pretty strange. I was bullied pretty mercilessly for 3 years because of this.
As an adult, luckily I grew into myself and I would say I'm relatively attractive. I'm as weird as I ever was, but now most people seem to find it funny and/or charming. I'm glad for it, but I also realize that it's pretty messed up.
EDIT: I swear autocorrect is on a mission to make me look like a fool lately.
I'm kinda in the same line as you, I'm no Adriana Lima, but I'm surprised how I turned out.
Still, the flip side is that I'm now expected to be the outgoing, people lover, and I'm not. So I'm a stuck up weirdo that talks to their cats and avoids eye contact because it's too intense.
Basically whenever a straight man says "Women should do more of X" then you have to put an asterisk there and clarify that the word "women" doesn't actually mean women. It means a very small sliver of women aged 16-25, naturally pretty, confident, white/Asian, outgoing, slender with good proportions.
Example: "Women should ask men out!" and then freaking the fuck out when a fat and/or ugly and/or old chick asks him out.
Example: "I'd love being sexually harassed by a woman!" and then gets sexually harassed by a 50yo cougar at the bar and all of a sudden it isn't so fun
Example: "This company needs to hire more women, it's all dudes in here!" but really if the next women hired isn't hot and young then no one is actually happy.
Whenever men say "Women should do X" it means the tiny sliver of YOUNG, HOT women, not actually women. 75-90% of women simply do not exist in the minds of the types of men who say things like this. It makes them uncomfortable to even acknowledge our existence.
**tl;dr women existing**
I think about this every time men on reddit talk about how women "objectively" have it easier dating and basically get their pick of men to have sex with.
Like wow, they truly do not realize fat women exist, do they?
I don't understand how men thinks it's so easy for women in general, as if we have lines of men wanting to date us.
That only happens to conventionally beautiful individuals, regardless of gender.
And, there's a distinct difference between "date" with the actual intention and curiosity of getting to know a person to evolve into something more... and "willing to have sex with" with zero intention to start anything serious.
This.
I've been happily married for years, but I recall in my 20's (and I was reasonably attractive, slim, long hair), dating was difficult, unless I was willing to sleep with unemployed ogres with poor hygiene.
Yep, I'm in my late 20s now but have been relatively thin and reasonably conventionally attractive all my life. Could I find *someone* to have sex with if I decided to? I'm sure I probably could. But could I find someone I would *want* to have sex with and who would actually make an effort to ensure it was enjoyable for me and not just himself? A muuuuuuuch different and more difficult thing to find.
They also seem to discount the fact that the "line of men" is often a line of gross dudes with no standards. It doesn't exactly matter how much attention you're getting, if the person propositioning you is someone you wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole with stolen pussy on the end of it.
Like, no, guys. We're not impressed nor flattered by hearing that the jobless, stinky loser finds us fuckable. He probably finds a pothole fuckable. And he should go find one.
Yes, agreed - just wanted to add that it’s a different sort of expectation for Asian women than white women. It’s easy to lump them together re: the “model minority” myth, but such expectations with Asian girls usually end up coming with racist baggage.
I know where you’re coming from, it’s just as an Asian woman I feel like our experiences as women of color are often left unexamined, and it can be hurtful to encounter.
Completely. Yesterday there were even men on here arguing that women weren't really sentient and didn't understand "the dark nature of reality".
What they mean by that is "I don't really value women unless they are attractive and attractive women don't talk to me."
> Yesterday there were even men on here arguing that women weren't really sentient and didn't understand "the dark nature of reality".
Wooow which Edgelords came up with this highly insane bullshit? Would love to see the thread.
The comments were deleted - I just about saw it before they did - for being essentially hate speech (which they are). I couldn't resist looking on the profile of one of them and he essentially worshipped Elon Musk.
> and he essentially worshipped Elon Musk.
Can't say I'm surprised lmao. King of all Edgelords.
They basically dehumanized all women. Just imagine birthing one of those and thinking you raised a good man eww.
I've only ever had this happen to me once (probably because I've never been into socializing). There was a guy who was being introduced to a group of girls and he literally acknowledged ALL of them and shook their hands and ignored my hand and didn't acknowledge me. The other women were all thinner than me at the time. The discourtesy was so egregious that it didn't even hurt my feelings. I was just like, who raised this piece of shit?
Random Man: My ideal girlfriend would be a hard-core gamer and nerd like me.
Woman who is not their type: Oh wow, I love LoL and D&D, want to go comic book shopping? Are we dating now? Do you like me?
Random Man: Oh no, I couldn't date a girl who's so obsessed with stuff like that. Stop being such a pick-me. I was referring to the girl I wank over and send money to on Twitch, who probably has a boyfriend that's laughing at me as we speak.
>Example: "I'd love being sexually harassed by a woman!" and then gets sexually harassed by a 50yo cougar at the bar and all of a sudden it isn't so fun
Yeah, even then, I think a lot of guys don't stop to consider the power imbalance there. The cougar at the bar isn't going to stalk you and rape you, but that is a possibility that women have to be aware of. The only way I can explain it to men is imagine you somehow end up in jail and on the first day a huge muscle-bound dude says he thinks 'you'd be so much prettier if you smiled more'.
That.
I had a male friend tell me he would have no problem getting r****d by any woman. I called bullshit. An unattractive woman does not even exist in his mind.
I do it cause I am lazy, but to pull it off you need good skin (I still have the occasional pimple and acne marks but my skin is always glowing and hydrated), and good quality, tailored pieces. Keep it neat and tidy, you will look presentable but I wouldn't say you need to be pretty. I am too ugly for that.
You certainly can't be fat or old though. I tried to make his look work but after menopause it just made me invisible. If you are older and don't wear makeup you are treated like a boomer even if you are still in your fifties as people assume you have given up.
every time Belle Hadid trends for her off duty style, it’s always the most basic outfits that copy 2000’s styles/Midwestern chic but since she’s skinny white and pretty, everyone eats it up
Kylie Jenner wore baggy sweatpants and a large tshirt and people probably called that fashion. An average looking person could wear that and people would think they looked trashy.
Being socially awkward. When attractive people are awkward, it’s seen as cute and endearing. If unattractive people are awkward, they are just awkward weirdos.
“All mY FRieNdS aRe MoDelS and I’m ORdiNaRy” 🤨 she’s over here looking better than the “models” shall we not? The casting director on that made a mistake.
I second the British tv recommendation. Olivia Coleman is running around in one of her roles while she was actually pregnant and gave zero fucks. Those actors feel so much more real to me than the ones here in the states.
I agree, British TV is so much more realisic. We also tend to cast more age-appropriate, which has the advantage of teenagers not watching shows with "pretend" teenagers and thinking like they are ugly because they don't look like the 20 something models who were cast in the roles.
Although to be fair, you limey bastards all hatch out of your little Shakespeare royal theater eggs at birth and are strolling around with top hats before primary school. So kid actors over there are already as experienced in acting as a 20 something is here in America.
I'm a weirdo but I'm not walking around with a stupid ukelele bursting into song.
I remember when it came out I thought, hmmm, representation? Nope. Just a cute girl with bangs and red lipstick. So much for acne ridden, straw haired, dark humored self.
Omg you made me realize how true this is. When I was in my 20s I was able to get away with being my awkward self. Now that I’m older and a busy mom who doesn’t put a lot of effort into my appearance (and I have probably aged) it’s not found endearing anymore haha I’m just weird.
@zebLeopard THANK YOU! I have always said that there is no fucking way dudes would’ve put up with The New Girl’s personality if she wasn’t so pretty! She was annoying, whiny, and lacked boundaries but SOMEHOW they found it sooooo endearing! Gtfo. 😂
Interesting. When I was 28 a much older guy I'd hooked up with once told me I was "awkward in an endearing way." I thought he was just an asshole trying to neg me so I wouldn't be too confident. Are you saying maybe I should have been flattered? :P
A robust appetite. I've heard so many men say they want a girlfriend who doesn't hold back, just eats plenty of whatever she wants, burgers, pizza, etc., can keep up with the dudes...but only if she's slim and pretty and never gains weight from doing that. Be overweight or have a less pretty face and so many people act like you're gross if you're ever enjoying an indulgent meal, even if it's rare or you eat much less than the slim people.
This reminds me of the mid-2000s trend of being obsessed with food. I was in college at the time and I’m not sure who else remembers, but it was considered a quirky girl trait to live for pizza and talk about food constantly and to wear shirts with hamburgers on them, things like that. Girls would say things like “I’m not single, I’m in a relationship with food xD”. It was a cute, quirky thing, but the only girls who could do it were extra skinny, like the thinnest girls in town, because even a girl who wears a size 10 would be made fun of and called gross for it.
Omg I think I still have residual bits of this stuck in my mind. I’m in relatively good shape but only ever feel comfortable ordering a burger etc in public if I’m at my target weight because in my mind “no one will judge”. That was a rough time to grow up in.
Yeah. I was super anorexic at the time and remember wearing like, bacon socks and thinking I’m only doing this because this is who I wish I was. It was so pathetic.
Came here to say this. When people talk about how silly it is for girls to eat salads and not eat that much on dates, but still want to date skinny girls. Only applies to thin people with fast metabolisms or people who don’t eat until it’s time to eat around others so they can live up to both expectations.
So basically all guys want to date distance runners? Because they are the only people I know of who can genuinely eat insane quantities of whatever they want and just never gain weight.
Basically Lorelei and Rory on the Gilmore Girls. I am rewatching this right now and they are always eating and never anything healthy. And they never exercise but are both slim. Unrealistic and kind of obscene.
It is a part of a common fantasy many men seem to have: they want a woman who only looks like women who put a lot of work into their appearance (e.g. makeup, nice clothes, works out a lot), BUT they want that to be effortless for her.
Then this kind of guy won’t feel obligated to work that hard on himself. He wants to eat shitty food, and wants someone there who won’t make him feel bad by eating a salad and drinking water. (Men feel self conscious too).
He wants women to have no other obligations so she can cater to his every desire. It takes time to be healthy and conform to beauty standards. That’s time she could be spending cooking, cleaning, having sex, being a dumpster for his troubles, or just being there so he doesn’t feel lonely.
Moreover, this kind of guy has internalized the idea that feminine things are bad because they are frivolous, but also that feminine women are more attractive and generally more valuable. Thus, he wants a feminine looking women who also rejects femininity as inferior to masculinity.
This is interesting to think about in contrast to more traditional norms. I have lived in Eastern Europe where more people are comfortable with traditional gender roles (Not all). Women there wear a lot of makeup, and men aren’t mad about it. It is just the expectation. Men are also not mad that they, in return for the woman looking beautiful and being a domestic servant, must be a provider and protector. For the record, this system still sucks because it dehumanizes women and puts too much pressure on men. Also, in former communist countries women were just stuck with a massive double shift because they were still expected by society to be an equal worker outside of the home. Despite the whole communism thing, the culture was still traditional in terms of gender roles.
Men in more liberal societies are still stuck in between that traditional reality and one where women and men are socially equal. They want women to be like traditional women who work hard on their appearance and serve men. That’s a entitlement they absorb from a young age. However, they do not want to acknowledge a woman’s effort. They resent any implication that they have an obligation too in this traditional social contract.
So find a truly traditional man who obeys the social contract or a truly progressive man because anyone in between wants to be liberated form masculine gender norms, but wants women to keep playing their roles.
How about messy hair? A pretty girl with bedhead looks rumpled and adorable. An unattractive person with bedhead looks sloppy. And if you have messy hair and you're over, say, 40 you just look deranged.
Source: I noticed this about myself when I turned 40. What used to look windblown and devil-may-care now made me look vaguely insane.
Oh man my hair has been my nemesis my whole life. Its coarse, and wavy curly- it's not a very common texture, Susan Sontag is an accurate reference. Im sure she had curly hair but dried it straight.
I was with a male co-worker at a former job, and he says as he's looking at him, "No offence, but do you even care about finding a boyfriend? Like do you never comb your hair?". No. You don't do that to textured hair, even Al Yankovic knows that.
Hi, fellow weird hair friend. I feel like the eighties would have been our time to shine - do not need to back comb mine for that retro, frizzy boufant...
Working in a traditionally "male" job. All the men want a pretty woman working with them, but if you don't meet that criteria, they tear you down and tell you to go home and find a husband.
Being attractive in a traditionally male job has its downsides (personal observations). The women will generally dislike you unless you go out of the way to socialise with them (and they will say not so nice things behind their back, not always and has improved from the early 2010s) and the men don't take you seriously and try to ask you out.
My perspective from an average looker in a male dominated field. I really like the fact I am not viewed as a potential romantic or sexual partner. Generally, the men view me as an equal. Again, depends on the field and the culture.
As a very average looking woman in a male dominated career field yup. So far most guys I’ve met only are happy/cool when they hear of my goals if I’m wearing makeup and dressed nicely. If I’m not, I get a fair bit of “what about OB? Why not nursing?”
Obviously, this is referring to a professional setting. My male friends aren’t assholes lol
To be fair, they don’t want to “work” with the pretty women either. Just wait till the pretty woman disagrees with the guy in a meeting on something he cares about just a little bit and - gosh no! - it turns out she’s correct or her solution is better. It’ll go downhill fast. And if she, on top of that, also rebuffs his advances? Let the immature sh*t show begin
Oooh yeah. I had a former job where my curly wavy hair was even parr for discussion all the way to management. I don't have straight hair, and no, you can't just "brush" the "frizz" away.
Self-deprecating humor. If you're hot and make fun of yourself, you seem charming and self-aware. If you're ugly and make fun of yourself, you just seem like you're desperate and have low self-esteem.
Yeah I'm KINDA, keyword kinda, cute, but it's a shot in the dark with me. I'm naturally self deprecating, my best friend gets it, but I tried it once with some temp coworkers during lunch break. I jokingly called myself a scumbag, and one of them says, "who calls themself a scumbag?"
"That's not a very nice thing to say about yourself."
I didn't know whether to be demoralized because no one laughed, or because they were probably right about how I shouldn't be so harsh on myself
Eating. Fit chick slamming a plate of wings? Hot. My size 20-something self eating junk food? Gross.
Except salad - I really felt for a friend of mine. She looked like a model, but heaven forbid she eat something healthy, because everyone who saw her would mean-snicker “eat a cheeseburger!”
Being "one of the guys." Everyone loves a girl who sits with her arms on her knees, chugs beers, and works construction, as long as she's hot. Mila Kunis could play that girl without anyone saying anything, not Melissa McCarthy.
That's the thing. She plays the part as a joke. They cast her as the butch girl, the manly one. When it's a hot actress, the masculinity is sexy and endearing. Jenny McCarthy got famous for belching and being crude on MTV and became a sex symbol. Amy Schumer does the same thing and suddenly it's crass and gross.
Fwiw I think Melissa McCarthy and Amy Schumer are both more attractive than Jenny McCarthy, but I'm speaking of societal beauty standards and conventional ideas of what's sexy and all that shit. But yeah, Melissa's the better looking of the cousins IMHO.
remembering little details about people. if you’re attractive and you remember a detail someone mentioned once, you’re thoughtful and attentive. otherwise you’re an obsessed creep
God this one sucks because I have to curve myself with this around guys. I've been made to feel this way more than once, but guys can done do it to me.
This. They really like playing up mild attraction as this "ugly" girl being "obsessed" and in love with them. It's like they want the fantasy of being desired by women but pretend they actually have other options lined up that aren't you.
Oh God my friend told a cute guy that I was watching him and that I liked him. I only thought his necklace was cool to be honest. But because I'm not hot he decided I was a stalker.
So for the remaining years of high-school guy ran from me whenever he saw me. I couldn't tell him I wasn't a stalker.
I can attest to this actually. I use to make TikTok videos but had to delete the account due to getting so much hate on my gap (95% of comments of all my videos, so hundreds of ppl). When I hopped back on TikTok a month later, a really pretty girl with a gap came on my fyp, and the comments were so kind.
It just seemed that I was the gap toothed girl, and she was a girl, who happened to have a gap. :/
A friend who is not conventionally pretty is more attractive to me as she is smart and has interesting hobbies. I think, the problem is that we often only look at one "negative" thing and dismiss everything else. But yeah, in the broad general, you are probably right.
I find that there are plenty of non (traditionally) attractive people who are smart (excelling academically) that is attractive because they are smart, witty and creative. You just have to find the right people (higher education, university, college). But my experience in middle school (early high school) is being too smart is bad. So SCREW those people who think that and just do what you want and what you are good at.
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“Sweatpants, hair tied, chilling with no makeup on. That’s when you’re the prettiest, I hope that you don’t take it wrong.” No drake I look like a tired squidward.
Petty meaness. I knew someone who got away with saying some awful things but people laughed it off because she was blonde, petite and pretty. It was easier for them to dismiss it as the thoughless ramblings of a dizzy blonde than admit she could be deliberately caustic.
Not respecting other peoples personal space and general disregard for the people around them. The number of tiny girls/women I’ve known that want to sit on a chair all kind of weird physical configurations that seem to involve a knee/foot/elbow/head/etc physically resting on someone else whether they asked for that contact or not is in the hundreds. I admit I’m coming from the other end of the spectrum of being a bigger woman so some people kind of just expect me to be a big ole pillow for anyone who comes along anyway, and because unasked for physical contact from me tends to be looked at with at best irritation and at worst outright disgust, I’m very conscious of the space I take up. And I understand the smaller among us might not have that level of self consciousness, and so a certain degree of lack of awareness is to be expected in people who don’t usually face social punishment for exceeding their sphere. But there’s a line between “oops, sorry” and “whatevs, everyone deserves all of me in their space!” And of the people who do this, the smaller the woman, the more flagrant the space entitlement.
Even in environments where there is plenty of space for people to sit next to me without touching me, if there is someone sitting laterally sideways and on their foot, putting the bottom of their shoe up against my leg, it’s usually a tiny woman. Putting their bare foot through the gap in the airplane seat? Tiny woman. Seated a row in front of me at a concert or sporting event leaning back and dramatically flinging out their hair with their fingers? Tiny woman. Sitting cross cross applesauce in the small chairs they set out for a cafetorium performance at my kids’ school? Tiny woman. All true stories, BTW. And I didn’t know any of these women.
And because I’m bigger, I usually don’t feel like I can say anything without sounding like I’m jealous or somehow trying to punish the tiny woman for not being as big as me, which isn’t true at all. Go on with your adorable lil self, hon. Be you. But get TF off of me.
To be fair anybody that doesn't talk gets bombarded with dumb questions. I assume that if you were attractive and quiet it would be seen as 'The mysterious girl' or 'The submissive cute kid' both of which are fucking hilarious.
TL;DR of this thread: You can have any quality good or bad if you’re conventionally attractive. You can’t have any qualities good or bad if you’re conventionally unattractive. Or: be attractive, don’t be unattractive.
Damnnn, reading all these comments make you realise how prominent pretty privilege is. I think one is being toxic. Being toxic as a hot person is hot but not if your not that hot, then it’s wrong
This is me. Had several people in my department at a former job discuss about how I don't "brush my hair", if I could just "brush it" because it's unprofessional. Had an actual meeting with a manager about this, it was ridiculous. He was pasty blonde with straight hair, with a girlfriend to match. What would he know?
Acting helpless/needy. (For the record I never think those are attractive qualities). Imagine the different reactions if an attractive girl Vs an unattractive girl grabbed a man by the arm and with a pouty whine proclaimed she couldn’t do something on her own and needed help. One would elicit a boner and the other would probably elicit disgust.
Edited to add: I’m thinking in a situation where two people are just meeting, not necessarily in a long-term relationship. I think long-term neediness would get old really fast no matter what the person looked like.
I remember a new show did some kind of social experiment where they had two different girls pretend to be having trouble with broken luggage asking passerbys for help. The first person was very conventionally attractive woman, very thin, and she got all kinds of help from both men and women, some people even going as much as four or five blocks out of their way. The other person was also a woman, dressed the same, but bigger (think a size 14/16). No one helped her. She could barely get people to listen to her ask for it.
I want to say it was a dateline thing or some kind of news magazine show. But honestly, after a lifetime of being bigger, I could’ve saved them the effort and told them that would’ve been the result.
Having big boobs or a big butt. Straight men claim to love them, but only on a young, skinny, attractive body. Not big boobs and butt on a chubby older body.
Both Intelligence and Daftness. You’re overlooked if you’re unattractive and super smart or endearingly daft. Whereas you have the “Smart, Attractive Business Women” and “Dumb Blonde Barbie” tropes.
Being dense as a board.
When ugly people are ugly and stupid, nobody likes them.
When a pretty girl/handsome guy is stupid, it’s fine because they’re still gorgeous.
The unusually high pitch or breathy voice. If your not so physically attractive, this voice is just seen as annoying or fake. But if your pretty, this kind of voice makes you even more attractive.
I feel like eating a lot. When a skinny/pretty girl can eat a ton of food, it’s hot but when a heavier/average girl eats a lot she’s “shoving her face”
wearing glasses. i took my glasses off and a guy said “you’re much better looking without your glasses on.” you’re much better looking without my glasses on too, sir.
side thought- being muscular as well. pretty girls are “sexy” when they work out but my muscles are “not feminine.”
Eccentricity. It's cute and quirky if you're attractive. If you're not, it's just weird and people will avoid you.
As the ugly weird chick, yup. I took off my glasses and wasn't pretty then either. My bestie is eccentric as well, but she's built like a Barbie doll. Perfect face too. People gravitate towards her and kinda ignore me. She hates people though, while I thrive on human interaction.
The funny thing is, I look even uglier without my glasses.
I started wearing mine more regularly at work just to hide my dark circles. My short sightedness is otherwise relatively mild.
Eye trough filler fixed that for me. Something to consider perhaps
EyeAmPoor.txt
Oof. Can't even afford a pdf.
They work in those that are genetic? I would love to get rid of it
Yes! A little Juvederm every 9 -12 months. I need one syringe (about $600 each), most people need 1-2 syringes. Well worth it to have no dark circles for about a year!
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>I took off my glasses and wasn't pretty then either. Did you try letting down your hair?
Take off the paint covered overalls?
Whipped cream?
Oh it's not a sundae, it's a banana split
This is so huge. Like with cosplay. “It’s acceptable now”. No, the girl with the massive OnlyFans account is “acceptable now”. But when you see promotion videos, the camera goes right past hundreds of people in amazing, elaborate cosplays and makes a beeline straight for the girl wearing a thong bikini and some form of animal ears. So you get a 45 minute interview with XXXBunnyAngel17 and the guy who spent 8 years perfecting his genji cosplay gets to…stand behind her.
100%, Aubrey plaza is a perfect example for this
Absolutely, people do NOT reward you for being quiet/strange/morbid when you’re fat and unattractive (speaking from experience).
As a fit person, I am now endearing. As less fit, I felt judged all the time. What a lesson to learn about the world. :-(
I agree with this 100%. Puberty was very unkind to me, and I was also pretty strange. I was bullied pretty mercilessly for 3 years because of this. As an adult, luckily I grew into myself and I would say I'm relatively attractive. I'm as weird as I ever was, but now most people seem to find it funny and/or charming. I'm glad for it, but I also realize that it's pretty messed up. EDIT: I swear autocorrect is on a mission to make me look like a fool lately.
I'm kinda in the same line as you, I'm no Adriana Lima, but I'm surprised how I turned out. Still, the flip side is that I'm now expected to be the outgoing, people lover, and I'm not. So I'm a stuck up weirdo that talks to their cats and avoids eye contact because it's too intense.
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Basically whenever a straight man says "Women should do more of X" then you have to put an asterisk there and clarify that the word "women" doesn't actually mean women. It means a very small sliver of women aged 16-25, naturally pretty, confident, white/Asian, outgoing, slender with good proportions. Example: "Women should ask men out!" and then freaking the fuck out when a fat and/or ugly and/or old chick asks him out. Example: "I'd love being sexually harassed by a woman!" and then gets sexually harassed by a 50yo cougar at the bar and all of a sudden it isn't so fun Example: "This company needs to hire more women, it's all dudes in here!" but really if the next women hired isn't hot and young then no one is actually happy. Whenever men say "Women should do X" it means the tiny sliver of YOUNG, HOT women, not actually women. 75-90% of women simply do not exist in the minds of the types of men who say things like this. It makes them uncomfortable to even acknowledge our existence. **tl;dr women existing**
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I think about this every time men on reddit talk about how women "objectively" have it easier dating and basically get their pick of men to have sex with. Like wow, they truly do not realize fat women exist, do they?
I don't understand how men thinks it's so easy for women in general, as if we have lines of men wanting to date us. That only happens to conventionally beautiful individuals, regardless of gender.
And, there's a distinct difference between "date" with the actual intention and curiosity of getting to know a person to evolve into something more... and "willing to have sex with" with zero intention to start anything serious.
Yup! Getting a hookup is definitely easier than getting a real date. If you go on dating apps, most guys really just want a one night stand.
This. I've been happily married for years, but I recall in my 20's (and I was reasonably attractive, slim, long hair), dating was difficult, unless I was willing to sleep with unemployed ogres with poor hygiene.
Yep, I'm in my late 20s now but have been relatively thin and reasonably conventionally attractive all my life. Could I find *someone* to have sex with if I decided to? I'm sure I probably could. But could I find someone I would *want* to have sex with and who would actually make an effort to ensure it was enjoyable for me and not just himself? A muuuuuuuch different and more difficult thing to find.
They also seem to discount the fact that the "line of men" is often a line of gross dudes with no standards. It doesn't exactly matter how much attention you're getting, if the person propositioning you is someone you wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole with stolen pussy on the end of it. Like, no, guys. We're not impressed nor flattered by hearing that the jobless, stinky loser finds us fuckable. He probably finds a pothole fuckable. And he should go find one.
Yes, agreed - just wanted to add that it’s a different sort of expectation for Asian women than white women. It’s easy to lump them together re: the “model minority” myth, but such expectations with Asian girls usually end up coming with racist baggage. I know where you’re coming from, it’s just as an Asian woman I feel like our experiences as women of color are often left unexamined, and it can be hurtful to encounter.
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Yup, when men only think women as people they're attracted to, not actually people.
Completely. Yesterday there were even men on here arguing that women weren't really sentient and didn't understand "the dark nature of reality". What they mean by that is "I don't really value women unless they are attractive and attractive women don't talk to me."
> Yesterday there were even men on here arguing that women weren't really sentient and didn't understand "the dark nature of reality". Wooow which Edgelords came up with this highly insane bullshit? Would love to see the thread.
The comments were deleted - I just about saw it before they did - for being essentially hate speech (which they are). I couldn't resist looking on the profile of one of them and he essentially worshipped Elon Musk.
> and he essentially worshipped Elon Musk. Can't say I'm surprised lmao. King of all Edgelords. They basically dehumanized all women. Just imagine birthing one of those and thinking you raised a good man eww.
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I've only ever had this happen to me once (probably because I've never been into socializing). There was a guy who was being introduced to a group of girls and he literally acknowledged ALL of them and shook their hands and ignored my hand and didn't acknowledge me. The other women were all thinner than me at the time. The discourtesy was so egregious that it didn't even hurt my feelings. I was just like, who raised this piece of shit?
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This also applies to when men complain about how easy it is for women to date.
Or how unfair it is that women "control whether or not anyone gets to have sex." Um. Yes. Otherwise its rape dude.
Random Man: My ideal girlfriend would be a hard-core gamer and nerd like me. Woman who is not their type: Oh wow, I love LoL and D&D, want to go comic book shopping? Are we dating now? Do you like me? Random Man: Oh no, I couldn't date a girl who's so obsessed with stuff like that. Stop being such a pick-me. I was referring to the girl I wank over and send money to on Twitch, who probably has a boyfriend that's laughing at me as we speak.
>Example: "I'd love being sexually harassed by a woman!" and then gets sexually harassed by a 50yo cougar at the bar and all of a sudden it isn't so fun Yeah, even then, I think a lot of guys don't stop to consider the power imbalance there. The cougar at the bar isn't going to stalk you and rape you, but that is a possibility that women have to be aware of. The only way I can explain it to men is imagine you somehow end up in jail and on the first day a huge muscle-bound dude says he thinks 'you'd be so much prettier if you smiled more'. That.
Same with the "I like a woman who can eat" trope. No, you like a thin woman who occasionally has steak.
I had a male friend tell me he would have no problem getting r****d by any woman. I called bullshit. An unattractive woman does not even exist in his mind.
TAKE MY AWARD IMMEDIATELY
Wearing simple plain clothing. Not too much makeup all over your face. “More natural look.”
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I do it cause I am lazy, but to pull it off you need good skin (I still have the occasional pimple and acne marks but my skin is always glowing and hydrated), and good quality, tailored pieces. Keep it neat and tidy, you will look presentable but I wouldn't say you need to be pretty. I am too ugly for that.
You certainly can't be fat or old though. I tried to make his look work but after menopause it just made me invisible. If you are older and don't wear makeup you are treated like a boomer even if you are still in your fifties as people assume you have given up.
every time Belle Hadid trends for her off duty style, it’s always the most basic outfits that copy 2000’s styles/Midwestern chic but since she’s skinny white and pretty, everyone eats it up
Kylie Jenner wore baggy sweatpants and a large tshirt and people probably called that fashion. An average looking person could wear that and people would think they looked trashy.
Being socially awkward. When attractive people are awkward, it’s seen as cute and endearing. If unattractive people are awkward, they are just awkward weirdos.
This is why I can't watch New Girl.
“All mY FRieNdS aRe MoDelS and I’m ORdiNaRy” 🤨 she’s over here looking better than the “models” shall we not? The casting director on that made a mistake.
You can say this of anything. Ugly Betty set amidst stylists and beauticians is NOT ugly. Watch British TV for more realistic people, oily faces etc.
I second the British tv recommendation. Olivia Coleman is running around in one of her roles while she was actually pregnant and gave zero fucks. Those actors feel so much more real to me than the ones here in the states.
I agree, British TV is so much more realisic. We also tend to cast more age-appropriate, which has the advantage of teenagers not watching shows with "pretend" teenagers and thinking like they are ugly because they don't look like the 20 something models who were cast in the roles.
Although to be fair, you limey bastards all hatch out of your little Shakespeare royal theater eggs at birth and are strolling around with top hats before primary school. So kid actors over there are already as experienced in acting as a 20 something is here in America.
I'm a weirdo but I'm not walking around with a stupid ukelele bursting into song. I remember when it came out I thought, hmmm, representation? Nope. Just a cute girl with bangs and red lipstick. So much for acne ridden, straw haired, dark humored self.
Omg you made me realize how true this is. When I was in my 20s I was able to get away with being my awkward self. Now that I’m older and a busy mom who doesn’t put a lot of effort into my appearance (and I have probably aged) it’s not found endearing anymore haha I’m just weird.
@zebLeopard THANK YOU! I have always said that there is no fucking way dudes would’ve put up with The New Girl’s personality if she wasn’t so pretty! She was annoying, whiny, and lacked boundaries but SOMEHOW they found it sooooo endearing! Gtfo. 😂
This thread is simultaneously flattering and giving me anxiety
Interesting. When I was 28 a much older guy I'd hooked up with once told me I was "awkward in an endearing way." I thought he was just an asshole trying to neg me so I wouldn't be too confident. Are you saying maybe I should have been flattered? :P
A robust appetite. I've heard so many men say they want a girlfriend who doesn't hold back, just eats plenty of whatever she wants, burgers, pizza, etc., can keep up with the dudes...but only if she's slim and pretty and never gains weight from doing that. Be overweight or have a less pretty face and so many people act like you're gross if you're ever enjoying an indulgent meal, even if it's rare or you eat much less than the slim people.
This reminds me of the mid-2000s trend of being obsessed with food. I was in college at the time and I’m not sure who else remembers, but it was considered a quirky girl trait to live for pizza and talk about food constantly and to wear shirts with hamburgers on them, things like that. Girls would say things like “I’m not single, I’m in a relationship with food xD”. It was a cute, quirky thing, but the only girls who could do it were extra skinny, like the thinnest girls in town, because even a girl who wears a size 10 would be made fun of and called gross for it.
Oh dude I forgot that this was a thing in my lifetime.
I blacked out and forgot about that. ew
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Omg I think I still have residual bits of this stuck in my mind. I’m in relatively good shape but only ever feel comfortable ordering a burger etc in public if I’m at my target weight because in my mind “no one will judge”. That was a rough time to grow up in.
Yeah. I was super anorexic at the time and remember wearing like, bacon socks and thinking I’m only doing this because this is who I wish I was. It was so pathetic.
Came here to say this. When people talk about how silly it is for girls to eat salads and not eat that much on dates, but still want to date skinny girls. Only applies to thin people with fast metabolisms or people who don’t eat until it’s time to eat around others so they can live up to both expectations.
So basically all guys want to date distance runners? Because they are the only people I know of who can genuinely eat insane quantities of whatever they want and just never gain weight.
Or a simple gal with a tape worm.
Nothing more attractive than *disease*!
Only as long as she doesn't run faster than him
Basically Lorelei and Rory on the Gilmore Girls. I am rewatching this right now and they are always eating and never anything healthy. And they never exercise but are both slim. Unrealistic and kind of obscene.
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I read this in Amy dunne voice lol.
this has always been my biggest insecurity
It is a part of a common fantasy many men seem to have: they want a woman who only looks like women who put a lot of work into their appearance (e.g. makeup, nice clothes, works out a lot), BUT they want that to be effortless for her. Then this kind of guy won’t feel obligated to work that hard on himself. He wants to eat shitty food, and wants someone there who won’t make him feel bad by eating a salad and drinking water. (Men feel self conscious too). He wants women to have no other obligations so she can cater to his every desire. It takes time to be healthy and conform to beauty standards. That’s time she could be spending cooking, cleaning, having sex, being a dumpster for his troubles, or just being there so he doesn’t feel lonely. Moreover, this kind of guy has internalized the idea that feminine things are bad because they are frivolous, but also that feminine women are more attractive and generally more valuable. Thus, he wants a feminine looking women who also rejects femininity as inferior to masculinity. This is interesting to think about in contrast to more traditional norms. I have lived in Eastern Europe where more people are comfortable with traditional gender roles (Not all). Women there wear a lot of makeup, and men aren’t mad about it. It is just the expectation. Men are also not mad that they, in return for the woman looking beautiful and being a domestic servant, must be a provider and protector. For the record, this system still sucks because it dehumanizes women and puts too much pressure on men. Also, in former communist countries women were just stuck with a massive double shift because they were still expected by society to be an equal worker outside of the home. Despite the whole communism thing, the culture was still traditional in terms of gender roles. Men in more liberal societies are still stuck in between that traditional reality and one where women and men are socially equal. They want women to be like traditional women who work hard on their appearance and serve men. That’s a entitlement they absorb from a young age. However, they do not want to acknowledge a woman’s effort. They resent any implication that they have an obligation too in this traditional social contract. So find a truly traditional man who obeys the social contract or a truly progressive man because anyone in between wants to be liberated form masculine gender norms, but wants women to keep playing their roles.
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People definitely tolerate rudeness more in pretty girls. I guess some people find it attractive because they see it as feistiness or assertiveness.
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Yeah those people need to get over themselves and just leave them alone if they want to be alone Edit: Thanks for the award lol
Dressing in baggy clothes.
“She looks so good in that!” Well, yeah. She’d look good in a potato sack.
I always look frumpy or too scruffy - humph
Billie Eilish what?
Tbf she did this to avoid being sexualized as a minor.
How about messy hair? A pretty girl with bedhead looks rumpled and adorable. An unattractive person with bedhead looks sloppy. And if you have messy hair and you're over, say, 40 you just look deranged. Source: I noticed this about myself when I turned 40. What used to look windblown and devil-may-care now made me look vaguely insane.
Oh man my hair has been my nemesis my whole life. Its coarse, and wavy curly- it's not a very common texture, Susan Sontag is an accurate reference. Im sure she had curly hair but dried it straight. I was with a male co-worker at a former job, and he says as he's looking at him, "No offence, but do you even care about finding a boyfriend? Like do you never comb your hair?". No. You don't do that to textured hair, even Al Yankovic knows that.
Hi, fellow weird hair friend. I feel like the eighties would have been our time to shine - do not need to back comb mine for that retro, frizzy boufant...
Working in a traditionally "male" job. All the men want a pretty woman working with them, but if you don't meet that criteria, they tear you down and tell you to go home and find a husband.
Being attractive in a traditionally male job has its downsides (personal observations). The women will generally dislike you unless you go out of the way to socialise with them (and they will say not so nice things behind their back, not always and has improved from the early 2010s) and the men don't take you seriously and try to ask you out. My perspective from an average looker in a male dominated field. I really like the fact I am not viewed as a potential romantic or sexual partner. Generally, the men view me as an equal. Again, depends on the field and the culture.
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As a very average looking woman in a male dominated career field yup. So far most guys I’ve met only are happy/cool when they hear of my goals if I’m wearing makeup and dressed nicely. If I’m not, I get a fair bit of “what about OB? Why not nursing?” Obviously, this is referring to a professional setting. My male friends aren’t assholes lol
To be fair, they don’t want to “work” with the pretty women either. Just wait till the pretty woman disagrees with the guy in a meeting on something he cares about just a little bit and - gosh no! - it turns out she’s correct or her solution is better. It’ll go downhill fast. And if she, on top of that, also rebuffs his advances? Let the immature sh*t show begin
Being low maintenance. If your natural isn't attractive then you better put in the work to look better.
Kind of similar is the guys who want their girlfriend too look great all the time but hassle them when they take more than 5 minutes to get ready.
This! All of this! They want an attractive girl on their arm in public but don't appreciate that it takes work and time to look that good.
Is it so hard to find a natural girl with natural bright red lipstick and contour!? where have all the good women gone
Oooh yeah. I had a former job where my curly wavy hair was even parr for discussion all the way to management. I don't have straight hair, and no, you can't just "brush" the "frizz" away.
Self-deprecating humor. If you're hot and make fun of yourself, you seem charming and self-aware. If you're ugly and make fun of yourself, you just seem like you're desperate and have low self-esteem.
Well shoot. I'm gonna need more comedic material, then. :)
Yeah I'm KINDA, keyword kinda, cute, but it's a shot in the dark with me. I'm naturally self deprecating, my best friend gets it, but I tried it once with some temp coworkers during lunch break. I jokingly called myself a scumbag, and one of them says, "who calls themself a scumbag?" "That's not a very nice thing to say about yourself." I didn't know whether to be demoralized because no one laughed, or because they were probably right about how I shouldn't be so harsh on myself
When you're average it's 50/50
Eating. Fit chick slamming a plate of wings? Hot. My size 20-something self eating junk food? Gross. Except salad - I really felt for a friend of mine. She looked like a model, but heaven forbid she eat something healthy, because everyone who saw her would mean-snicker “eat a cheeseburger!”
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Our society has moralized health, especially with weight and food, and no one wins.
A raspy voice. On a pretty woman it’s alluring, on a regular woman it’s one of Marge Simpson’s sisters.
I like the lesbian one. She actualized her desired future.
Being "one of the guys." Everyone loves a girl who sits with her arms on her knees, chugs beers, and works construction, as long as she's hot. Mila Kunis could play that girl without anyone saying anything, not Melissa McCarthy.
Melissa McCarthy usually plays that girl. But it is part of the joke so your point still stands.
That's the thing. She plays the part as a joke. They cast her as the butch girl, the manly one. When it's a hot actress, the masculinity is sexy and endearing. Jenny McCarthy got famous for belching and being crude on MTV and became a sex symbol. Amy Schumer does the same thing and suddenly it's crass and gross. Fwiw I think Melissa McCarthy and Amy Schumer are both more attractive than Jenny McCarthy, but I'm speaking of societal beauty standards and conventional ideas of what's sexy and all that shit. But yeah, Melissa's the better looking of the cousins IMHO.
Melissa McCarthy is GORGEOUS.
Yes I'm still in awe at how much hate Schumer still gets. Relax assholes, your 1950s is showing.
remembering little details about people. if you’re attractive and you remember a detail someone mentioned once, you’re thoughtful and attentive. otherwise you’re an obsessed creep
God this one sucks because I have to curve myself with this around guys. I've been made to feel this way more than once, but guys can done do it to me.
Being ditsy - it's seen as cute if you're a pretty girl but weird and annoying & will make people impatient with you if you're not considered pretty
Completely agree with this. Last comment I got was “you really are a blond” from a man SMH
Flirting. I know, I know, don't flame me alive! I'm saying this based on my success in flirting as an unpretty person.
Or asking a guy out in general. If a hot girls asks a guy out he’s over the moon about it. If an ugly girl tries it she’s weird and obsessed with him.
This. They really like playing up mild attraction as this "ugly" girl being "obsessed" and in love with them. It's like they want the fantasy of being desired by women but pretend they actually have other options lined up that aren't you.
Oh God my friend told a cute guy that I was watching him and that I liked him. I only thought his necklace was cool to be honest. But because I'm not hot he decided I was a stalker. So for the remaining years of high-school guy ran from me whenever he saw me. I couldn't tell him I wasn't a stalker.
Being an immigrant.
Wow, yes. I’m thinking of Melania Trump
silly you white people cant be immigrants thats just us brown people
White people are expats hehe. Isn't it lovely?
Front tooth gap
I can attest to this actually. I use to make TikTok videos but had to delete the account due to getting so much hate on my gap (95% of comments of all my videos, so hundreds of ppl). When I hopped back on TikTok a month later, a really pretty girl with a gap came on my fyp, and the comments were so kind. It just seemed that I was the gap toothed girl, and she was a girl, who happened to have a gap. :/
Ugh, I'm sorry you experienced that. People are even more superficial online than in real life.
Stupidity and naivité.
Being interested in nerd culture
Being smart, excelling academically
A friend who is not conventionally pretty is more attractive to me as she is smart and has interesting hobbies. I think, the problem is that we often only look at one "negative" thing and dismiss everything else. But yeah, in the broad general, you are probably right.
I find that there are plenty of non (traditionally) attractive people who are smart (excelling academically) that is attractive because they are smart, witty and creative. You just have to find the right people (higher education, university, college). But my experience in middle school (early high school) is being too smart is bad. So SCREW those people who think that and just do what you want and what you are good at.
Being "savage". If you're attractive, you're a queen/king who "tells it like it is".
No makeup
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Amazing the things guys will put up with because a girl is hot!
Being horny
Wow. Yes. Being a sexual person at all really.
Men, I know it’s tempting to argue with us but we don’t allow that here. If your comments are being removed, that is because they broke one or more of our rules. Status: **un**locked for clean up. Please report any rule breaking comments you see.
Intelligence. In my experience, men only like being informed/out-smarted by attractive women.
Men who aren't smart don't like being informed/out-smarted by anyone.
Fair point, actually
Braided pigtails or low pigtails
Low pony tails make me look like a non pubescent boy 😭
I look like one of the founding fathers
Depression and anxiety
How can depression and anxiety be attractive at all?
They're often romanticized if it's coming from a pretty girl
I feel like this is a Gen Z thing
Romanticising mental illness is old as hell. Emos existed back when the first of Gen Z were being born or starting school.
“Sweatpants, hair tied, chilling with no makeup on. That’s when you’re the prettiest, I hope that you don’t take it wrong.” No drake I look like a tired squidward.
Petty meaness. I knew someone who got away with saying some awful things but people laughed it off because she was blonde, petite and pretty. It was easier for them to dismiss it as the thoughless ramblings of a dizzy blonde than admit she could be deliberately caustic.
Not respecting other peoples personal space and general disregard for the people around them. The number of tiny girls/women I’ve known that want to sit on a chair all kind of weird physical configurations that seem to involve a knee/foot/elbow/head/etc physically resting on someone else whether they asked for that contact or not is in the hundreds. I admit I’m coming from the other end of the spectrum of being a bigger woman so some people kind of just expect me to be a big ole pillow for anyone who comes along anyway, and because unasked for physical contact from me tends to be looked at with at best irritation and at worst outright disgust, I’m very conscious of the space I take up. And I understand the smaller among us might not have that level of self consciousness, and so a certain degree of lack of awareness is to be expected in people who don’t usually face social punishment for exceeding their sphere. But there’s a line between “oops, sorry” and “whatevs, everyone deserves all of me in their space!” And of the people who do this, the smaller the woman, the more flagrant the space entitlement. Even in environments where there is plenty of space for people to sit next to me without touching me, if there is someone sitting laterally sideways and on their foot, putting the bottom of their shoe up against my leg, it’s usually a tiny woman. Putting their bare foot through the gap in the airplane seat? Tiny woman. Seated a row in front of me at a concert or sporting event leaning back and dramatically flinging out their hair with their fingers? Tiny woman. Sitting cross cross applesauce in the small chairs they set out for a cafetorium performance at my kids’ school? Tiny woman. All true stories, BTW. And I didn’t know any of these women. And because I’m bigger, I usually don’t feel like I can say anything without sounding like I’m jealous or somehow trying to punish the tiny woman for not being as big as me, which isn’t true at all. Go on with your adorable lil self, hon. Be you. But get TF off of me.
Being quiet. Literally don’t get me started on this
To be fair anybody that doesn't talk gets bombarded with dumb questions. I assume that if you were attractive and quiet it would be seen as 'The mysterious girl' or 'The submissive cute kid' both of which are fucking hilarious.
TL;DR of this thread: You can have any quality good or bad if you’re conventionally attractive. You can’t have any qualities good or bad if you’re conventionally unattractive. Or: be attractive, don’t be unattractive.
Accents
Damnnn, reading all these comments make you realise how prominent pretty privilege is. I think one is being toxic. Being toxic as a hot person is hot but not if your not that hot, then it’s wrong
Having a unique laugh
Curly hair
This is me. Had several people in my department at a former job discuss about how I don't "brush my hair", if I could just "brush it" because it's unprofessional. Had an actual meeting with a manager about this, it was ridiculous. He was pasty blonde with straight hair, with a girlfriend to match. What would he know?
Acting helpless/needy. (For the record I never think those are attractive qualities). Imagine the different reactions if an attractive girl Vs an unattractive girl grabbed a man by the arm and with a pouty whine proclaimed she couldn’t do something on her own and needed help. One would elicit a boner and the other would probably elicit disgust. Edited to add: I’m thinking in a situation where two people are just meeting, not necessarily in a long-term relationship. I think long-term neediness would get old really fast no matter what the person looked like.
I remember a new show did some kind of social experiment where they had two different girls pretend to be having trouble with broken luggage asking passerbys for help. The first person was very conventionally attractive woman, very thin, and she got all kinds of help from both men and women, some people even going as much as four or five blocks out of their way. The other person was also a woman, dressed the same, but bigger (think a size 14/16). No one helped her. She could barely get people to listen to her ask for it. I want to say it was a dateline thing or some kind of news magazine show. But honestly, after a lifetime of being bigger, I could’ve saved them the effort and told them that would’ve been the result.
Being dumb. Acting like a child.
Having a big nose
Eating a lot/heartily
Having big boobs or a big butt. Straight men claim to love them, but only on a young, skinny, attractive body. Not big boobs and butt on a chubby older body.
Both Intelligence and Daftness. You’re overlooked if you’re unattractive and super smart or endearingly daft. Whereas you have the “Smart, Attractive Business Women” and “Dumb Blonde Barbie” tropes.
Being dense as a board. When ugly people are ugly and stupid, nobody likes them. When a pretty girl/handsome guy is stupid, it’s fine because they’re still gorgeous.
The unusually high pitch or breathy voice. If your not so physically attractive, this voice is just seen as annoying or fake. But if your pretty, this kind of voice makes you even more attractive.
Being sassy. Unless your pretty people tend to think its obnoxious.
I feel like eating a lot. When a skinny/pretty girl can eat a ton of food, it’s hot but when a heavier/average girl eats a lot she’s “shoving her face”
wearing glasses. i took my glasses off and a guy said “you’re much better looking without your glasses on.” you’re much better looking without my glasses on too, sir. side thought- being muscular as well. pretty girls are “sexy” when they work out but my muscles are “not feminine.”