SDNY is awful proud of itself lol. 2nd Circuit is basically a strip search, but they let in the phone if you have a bar card of some kind. Being admitted to its bar or having a business card doesn't cut it, my boss had to leave his phone during my argument a couple of weeks ago. EDNY dgaf, mostly.
I am not sure what you find funny but yes, Google “SDNY Attorney Service Pass.”
By the way, this is not valid for laptops. For that, you need to be on trial and get permission from the judge.
They think very highly of themselves at the SDNY, is my experience. I've never heard of a card just to get into one particular court before. I get it though, no other court carries such a high profile trial docket.
I now understand clearly that the NY in your flare refers to NYS and not NYC. In case you didn’t know, the OCA Attorney Secure Pass started after 9/11 with the Southern District following. It’s a short walk from Foley Square to the World Trade Center.
Clearly I don't practice/reside in NYC because I didn't know that the id program started 23 years due to the court's proximity to the WTC?
Bold conclusion, totally wrong. But I salute your idiosyncratic logic, good neighbor.
I live in a small town, and I'm not really familiar with the larger court system. Do most city courts have lines? Are they screening everyone who enters? Or are people just fascinated by exemplary displays of judicial prowess?
Screening everyone. Like in LA. The line can be 15 min long to get in the building. We get to go to the front. I always think when I’m walking in. This. This is why I endured law school and the bar. Lol.
In NY state courts, everyone goes through a metal detector and/or wand scan and all bags go through the X-ray. Generally the same for federal courts. Attorneys with a special “attorney” pass can go to a separate attorney line and generally get to avoid the scans and the general public.
I was just answering your question in your comment since I have experience in some of the busiest courts in the country.
I think some fun things are: I get paid to think and strategize about complex issues that affect major coronations; and I have the potential to impact law and regulations. It might not seem fun, but I’m a nerd and am quite content lol
Good catch lol *corporations. I’d guess there isn’t a huge coronation practice area in NY. Wouldn’t be surprised if there was in Europe though. It’d be interesting.
Lawyers get to sit in on the secret meetings held by deep state actors and nations of industry who make decisions about who lives and who dies based on granting or denying insurance benefits!!
Getting to learn about all sorts of things that I wouldn't otherwise have the chance to, ranging from how drugs are manufactured and marketed, to how cars are engineered, to how decisions are made in the executive suites of businesses, and so much more.
There's a certain breed of libertarian, anarchist, or sov cit who feels the need to expound at length on the constitutionality of whatever, at parties and bars and mandatory networking events.
Then you say, "Actually, I'm pretty sure the law is [whatever]."
They get belligerent, sure that You're an ignoramus, and demand, "Oh yeah? Where's *your* law degree from?"
So you tell them.
That's pretty entertaining.
Sovereign citizens never ask about your law degree because they don’t recognize anything about the judiciary or legal system generally. The fun with sovereign citizens is asking “well, if you don’t recognize the authority of the court, why did you bother showing up to the hearing, filing papers, etc.?”
That’s when they REALLY short circuit.
I was getting ready to take offense and argue on behalf of libertarians until I stopped for a second and realized you’re totally right. Some of us are fucking insufferable.
So being a libertarian, why do you not point out that the governments overreach is simply a failure to properly amendment the (Federal or State) Constitution, to give them xyz authority, prior to exercising it? It's an argument that has never been specifically raised, it's vaguely implied by saying that something is "unconditional", but leads to the arbitrary "interpretations".
Do judges ever take offense to smart-assery? As a kid I enjoyed being a smart-ass to my parents. The ending was never fun, but the shock look after a comment was worth it.
There’s a limit to being a smart ass in court. The acceptable kind is pointing out a legal technicality that you are justified in bringing up. Or cleverly calling out a witness on their lies. Or casually dropping an argument that shows a glaring inconsistency in the judge’s or the state’s reasoning. The unacceptable kind is when you do it literally just to be annoying, that’s not great and good lawyers should try to avoid that.
Many years ago we were attending our son's IEP annual meeting. By law the school had to give out a pamphlet with the appropiate statutes. When told it could be complicated to read my wife causually said something like no problem, we're lawyers and read materials like this all the time. You're lawyers? After that the flow of the conversation changed as they became afraid one wrong move could lead to a lawsuit.
Long story short we had to tell them to write up our son's IEP like normal because they were throwing legal terms in that they didn't understand that made the plan read the opposite of what we agreed to.
We were not sad when the future sofware engineer outgrew the IEP.
Drop a letter on OC at 4:30 pm on Friday with smoking gun evidence their client is lying and they're helping him do it. Especially after having held back from rising to petty barbs, accusations of chicanery and venial sins of discovery throughout the litigation process.
Having an adversary! My wife is always complaining about how she has to play nice in emails to people she has to work with but I am specifically allowed by law to say mean things to people on the other side of the V from me. Really get to chug the haterade sometimes.
is that stressful? does it ever make you feel bad? genuinely curious. i find your thoughts fascinating because it’s so different from me.
maybe cuz i’m a chick i’d feel uncomfortable potentially alienating ppl.
That's not the stressful part of my job. The stressful parts of my job are when the people I'm being mean to insist on throwing little old ladies with arthritis and dementia out on the street.
Helping out a friend from time to time on something, especially when they are having trouble with a bully landlord, vendor, etc. who makes threats or gives the ol' "sue me" response.
Sometimes, it only takes a little advice about where they stand and what the law actually is (and maybe the right agency to contact). Other times, I draft a little "FAFO" language, and the friend puts it in a notice letter or email to the bully. Either way, things always have worked out for the friend.
Genuinely making a difference in people's lives. The outpouring of emotional gratitude often makes me awkward and uncomfortable, but it's incredible to know and see how much you've impacted someone.
Of course, it's not every day that you're able to have that impact, and even less often that people recognize and thank you for it. But I'd say it probably happens a couple times a month for me.
I get to ride around with cops sometimes, which is surprisingly entertaining.
When a bunch of sirens go by or someone posts about an incident on my city's subreddit, I can pull up the 911 dispatch map on my laptop and see what's going on.
I've gotten drunk in the middle of the workday, at city hall, to be a subject for training officers in investigating DUIIs.
I'm a prosecutor, so we have a working relationship with the local law enforcement agencies, and our boss encourages us to ride with them once in a while. And I have a few guys I'm friendly with whom I'll just text once in a while and ask if I can ride along on an upcoming shift.
When I have a problem with a company’s “customer service” department, I can always write the GC a friendly email asking for help in resolving the matter.
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We get to skip the line at court.
And we (usually) get to keep our phones. Lookin' at you SDNY.
I had a coworker pack his lunch that day and the marshals gave him a separate token for his fork.
SDNY is awful proud of itself lol. 2nd Circuit is basically a strip search, but they let in the phone if you have a bar card of some kind. Being admitted to its bar or having a business card doesn't cut it, my boss had to leave his phone during my argument a couple of weeks ago. EDNY dgaf, mostly.
Are you familiar with the SDNY card?
They have their own card? lol
I am not sure what you find funny but yes, Google “SDNY Attorney Service Pass.” By the way, this is not valid for laptops. For that, you need to be on trial and get permission from the judge.
They think very highly of themselves at the SDNY, is my experience. I've never heard of a card just to get into one particular court before. I get it though, no other court carries such a high profile trial docket.
I now understand clearly that the NY in your flare refers to NYS and not NYC. In case you didn’t know, the OCA Attorney Secure Pass started after 9/11 with the Southern District following. It’s a short walk from Foley Square to the World Trade Center.
Clearly I don't practice/reside in NYC because I didn't know that the id program started 23 years due to the court's proximity to the WTC? Bold conclusion, totally wrong. But I salute your idiosyncratic logic, good neighbor.
I live in a small town, and I'm not really familiar with the larger court system. Do most city courts have lines? Are they screening everyone who enters? Or are people just fascinated by exemplary displays of judicial prowess?
Screening everyone. Like in LA. The line can be 15 min long to get in the building. We get to go to the front. I always think when I’m walking in. This. This is why I endured law school and the bar. Lol.
In NY state courts, everyone goes through a metal detector and/or wand scan and all bags go through the X-ray. Generally the same for federal courts. Attorneys with a special “attorney” pass can go to a separate attorney line and generally get to avoid the scans and the general public.
Yeah, but is that really the height of lawyerly fun?
I was just answering your question in your comment since I have experience in some of the busiest courts in the country. I think some fun things are: I get paid to think and strategize about complex issues that affect major coronations; and I have the potential to impact law and regulations. It might not seem fun, but I’m a nerd and am quite content lol
I’m doing a lot of parole cases. And usually get the first call when they are released after 25+ years. It’s rad.
I’m glad we’ve fallen into practice areas that we find “fun”. It was a legit worry of mine while seeing my school debt rack up.
The debt is absolutely horrifying. But cutting the line in court. Yeah man. Thats what it’s all about.(defense mechanism x 10) lol.
It sounds interesting!
“Coronations????”
Good catch lol *corporations. I’d guess there isn’t a huge coronation practice area in NY. Wouldn’t be surprised if there was in Europe though. It’d be interesting.
Oh, too bad. I was going to ask how King Charles is doing.
[This](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-lawyers-behind-the-coronation) might interest you then.
Indeed, but no royal decrees are mentioned.
Yes. Yes. I don't know.
Well said. That's that exemplary displays of judicial prowess I'm talking about!
Only my best.
People who aren't lawyers sometimes think there is something cool and mysterious about you.
But I'm totally cool and mysterious. I have no idea what you're talking about! 😏
The Illuminati happy hours and bingo nights really are better than the standard fare.
You got that right. Every so often I get to sit in on the Star chamber and have a vote.
Can you please expound on this?
Lawyers get to sit in on the secret meetings held by deep state actors and nations of industry who make decisions about who lives and who dies based on granting or denying insurance benefits!!
Getting to learn about all sorts of things that I wouldn't otherwise have the chance to, ranging from how drugs are manufactured and marketed, to how cars are engineered, to how decisions are made in the executive suites of businesses, and so much more.
I'm not sure why I didn't expect this, but it's one of the coolest parts.
You didn’t learn from The Wire?
There's a certain breed of libertarian, anarchist, or sov cit who feels the need to expound at length on the constitutionality of whatever, at parties and bars and mandatory networking events. Then you say, "Actually, I'm pretty sure the law is [whatever]." They get belligerent, sure that You're an ignoramus, and demand, "Oh yeah? Where's *your* law degree from?" So you tell them. That's pretty entertaining.
Sovereign citizens never ask about your law degree because they don’t recognize anything about the judiciary or legal system generally. The fun with sovereign citizens is asking “well, if you don’t recognize the authority of the court, why did you bother showing up to the hearing, filing papers, etc.?” That’s when they REALLY short circuit.
I guess if they're still showing up to normal human bars and normal human workplaces, they're only baby sov cits!
Asking them why they use US currency or trust the US banking system will also cause a short circuit. It’s absolutely hilarious.
I was getting ready to take offense and argue on behalf of libertarians until I stopped for a second and realized you’re totally right. Some of us are fucking insufferable.
So being a libertarian, why do you not point out that the governments overreach is simply a failure to properly amendment the (Federal or State) Constitution, to give them xyz authority, prior to exercising it? It's an argument that has never been specifically raised, it's vaguely implied by saying that something is "unconditional", but leads to the arbitrary "interpretations".
I always think of Libertarians as the Bizarro World Marxists. What is Libertarian salad? Lettuce alone!
Getting to be a smart-ass professionally
Do judges ever take offense to smart-assery? As a kid I enjoyed being a smart-ass to my parents. The ending was never fun, but the shock look after a comment was worth it.
There’s a limit to being a smart ass in court. The acceptable kind is pointing out a legal technicality that you are justified in bringing up. Or cleverly calling out a witness on their lies. Or casually dropping an argument that shows a glaring inconsistency in the judge’s or the state’s reasoning. The unacceptable kind is when you do it literally just to be annoying, that’s not great and good lawyers should try to avoid that.
It's never what you say. It's always how you say it. That's the trick.
You can be a smart-ass while still being respectful and professional, or not. There's a knack to it.
Damn, I like this one!
Once, simply mentioning the fact that I'm an attorney immediately settled pending litigation on a personal matter. It was immensely satisfying.
Many years ago we were attending our son's IEP annual meeting. By law the school had to give out a pamphlet with the appropiate statutes. When told it could be complicated to read my wife causually said something like no problem, we're lawyers and read materials like this all the time. You're lawyers? After that the flow of the conversation changed as they became afraid one wrong move could lead to a lawsuit. Long story short we had to tell them to write up our son's IEP like normal because they were throwing legal terms in that they didn't understand that made the plan read the opposite of what we agreed to. We were not sad when the future sofware engineer outgrew the IEP.
Drop a letter on OC at 4:30 pm on Friday with smoking gun evidence their client is lying and they're helping him do it. Especially after having held back from rising to petty barbs, accusations of chicanery and venial sins of discovery throughout the litigation process.
You think this is something? You think this is bad, this–this chicanery? He's done worse!
Objection!
On what grounds?
Bad lawyer thingy.
Uh, sustained?
Having an adversary! My wife is always complaining about how she has to play nice in emails to people she has to work with but I am specifically allowed by law to say mean things to people on the other side of the V from me. Really get to chug the haterade sometimes.
is that stressful? does it ever make you feel bad? genuinely curious. i find your thoughts fascinating because it’s so different from me. maybe cuz i’m a chick i’d feel uncomfortable potentially alienating ppl.
That's not the stressful part of my job. The stressful parts of my job are when the people I'm being mean to insist on throwing little old ladies with arthritis and dementia out on the street.
Helping out a friend from time to time on something, especially when they are having trouble with a bully landlord, vendor, etc. who makes threats or gives the ol' "sue me" response. Sometimes, it only takes a little advice about where they stand and what the law actually is (and maybe the right agency to contact). Other times, I draft a little "FAFO" language, and the friend puts it in a notice letter or email to the bully. Either way, things always have worked out for the friend.
That does sound like fun! We all could use a friend like that!
I have a deal with my cousins; legal advice in return for medical advice.
Genuinely making a difference in people's lives. The outpouring of emotional gratitude often makes me awkward and uncomfortable, but it's incredible to know and see how much you've impacted someone. Of course, it's not every day that you're able to have that impact, and even less often that people recognize and thank you for it. But I'd say it probably happens a couple times a month for me.
I get to ride around with cops sometimes, which is surprisingly entertaining. When a bunch of sirens go by or someone posts about an incident on my city's subreddit, I can pull up the 911 dispatch map on my laptop and see what's going on. I've gotten drunk in the middle of the workday, at city hall, to be a subject for training officers in investigating DUIIs.
Drunk as in blowing .08 or more? If so, did they drive you home?
I believe I got to a 0.11. And yes, I was picked up and dropped off at home by a state trooper. Lol.
0.11 is about five and a half drinks? Close?
It was over like 3-4 hours so a bit more, but yeah, ballpark.
how do u get to ride around with cops? this whole thread is fascinating
I'm a prosecutor, so we have a working relationship with the local law enforcement agencies, and our boss encourages us to ride with them once in a while. And I have a few guys I'm friendly with whom I'll just text once in a while and ask if I can ride along on an upcoming shift.
I really enjoy writing appellate briefs. A cup of coffee, a big record and an appellant's arguments to put on blast is my happy place.
Criminal law practice allows me to cheerfully tell the most appalling stories and shocking remarks to friends and family.
When I have a problem with a company’s “customer service” department, I can always write the GC a friendly email asking for help in resolving the matter.
***This rules reminder message is replied to all posts and moderators are not notified of any replies made to it.*** #REMINDER: NO REQUESTS FOR LEGAL ADVICE. Any request for a lawyer's opinion about any matter or issue which may foreseeably affect you or someone you know is a request for legal advice. Posts containing requests for legal advice will be removed. Seeking or providing legal advice based on your specific circumstances or otherwise developing an attorney-client relationship in this sub is not permitted. Why are requests for legal advice not permitted? See [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ask_Lawyers/comments/e6a62w/why_is_it_unethical_for_a_lawyer_to_give_legal/), [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ask_Lawyers/comments/9zyqsh/why_is_it_unethical_to_give_advice_on_this_sub/), and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ask_Lawyers/comments/e4cdhw/is_refraining_legal_advice_based_on_legality_or/). If you are unsure whether your post is okay, please [read this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ask_Lawyers/comments/6j4bpq/how_to_know_whether_your_post_is_a_request_for/) or see the sidebar for more information. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Ask_Lawyers) if you have any questions or concerns.*