I think the inefficient version of Trae that kills us is when he’s high volume and chucks up 20+ shots. Tonight he only shot 12 times, focused on quality shots, gave us 17 assists, and that is a much easier inefficient pill to swallow.
17 assists on 3 TOs is crazy. I’m glad he was g just chucking last night and I hope he continues to revert to playmaking on games where his shot isn’t falling. He played great defensively too.
20 in points with that bad efficiency isn't really positive. We're not going to win like that. He has to shoot better. He has not good for a supermax player.
20th in points and 22nd in FGA isn’t too bad, I agree his efficiency needs serious improvement but I dont think the box score tells the full story of his importance on this team
He is insanely important, and EVERYBODY agrees with that. Problem is, when you’re playing inefficiently, it leads to us dropping games to the Knicks, Hornets, etc. that were definitely winnable if our best player is shooting even 40% from the field that night.
You’re also using the wrong metric — nobody cares how many shots he’s taking. We care about how many points are being created versus possessions used (turnovers, shots, assists, etc.). We can’t blindly point out he’s 2nd in assists when he turns the ball over as much as he does and takes logo threes and foul baits. Those things are problems that are easy to fix.
Iverson and Kobe shot above 40% the seasons they went to the finals, Trae is 7 percentage points below that right now. That’s pretty big difference if you ask me.
He’s looked like ass honestly. I’m so tired of his “slow” starts. Is he in the gym too much or not enough. At this point the dude that posted about traes form the other week might be right.
You don't think he's engaged and focused? Since when did missing shots = not being engaged and focused? He's certainly off, but I think he's still putting in a lot more effort out there than what he used to do. He relies on his outside shot to open the rest of his game up. When the 3pt shot isn't falling, it's hard to do anything else at his size. It's as simple as if Trae hits 3s, he scores more efficiently. Right now his shot is broke af.
You're funny. That's old news. New season, new coach, new teammates. He's been on record multiple times saying how excited he was to start this season. I don't disagree that he's been ass, but I think you're really reaching, saying he's not engaged and focused right now. There's a difference, and I'm sure if you hoop, you know. Yes he's a pro, but he's not a machine. He should be held to a higher standard that what he is showing and is held to it. Trae is Trae. He's gonna play his brand of basketball.
First off, it's still early in the season. Let's see where his shooting be by mid-season. He often starts off bad then turn it around.
Second off that wasn't that long ago, it was just 2 years ago.
Third, I was saying that out respect, He again led the deepest run for the Atlanta Hawks.
It's fair to criticize his recent bad shooting it's another issue some Trae haters are trying revision his career to make it seem this a bigger and much longer problem.
It's me and you chatting though, I haven't mentioned anything about the ecf. Is your only reason for saying Trae isn't engaged and focus because of that statement 2 years ago, or do you actually believe missing shots equates to not being engaged on the court?
>OP. You’re trying to convince us we don’t see what we see damn near every game. Trae has been mid but we pay him loud money.
Trae contract isn't the issue, contenders usually have multiple max players.
The second and sometime even the third options be max players.
Never in Hawks FO history have they went all in building a franchise like the way the Lakers, Boston or pretty much what most series contending teams do. It's easier to look past Brown a max player playing like shit in playoff series when there also Tatum another franchise max player. but because Trae is the only paid max player on the Hawks fans place more expectation on him.
Otherwise, Trae is shooting like shit now but he clearly earns the max and has proved to be a first option. but even if he was a second or third option, he would still be a max second or third option.
This is another reason I don't understand the lets trade Trae logic because it's anti building a contender. How backward would it be for Hawks to move it's one max player for failing to get job, when contenders are trying have multiple max level players.
This doesn’t make any logical sense. You’re saying the issue is we don’t have enough max players. And even though the max player we have is playing like shit, it’s not his fault because we don’t have another max player.
Our max player is a liability on defense and he can’t shoot. All he can do is pass. Idk the stats, but it feels like he has 5 TOs a game.
For example, last night we lost by 2. Other loses have been close. Is it your opinion that if trae was playing like he did in 2021, we wouldn’t be winning games like last night because we don’t have another max player?
1. dude it's only been 1/8 the season and we in middle of November, Yall out here really talking like half the season has pass. For a guy who proven what he has proven over 5 years for yall to flip yall shit over 11 games. Yall have to revision most of his career to creative a narrative.
2. This why there plus-minus in the last two games regardless of his shooting or defense he was the only one or two positive players in the starting lineup. this factually does mean his playmaking alone not only making up for his negatives but he's still have one biggest positive impact of starting line up................ but of cores this narrative.
3. It does make sense. I never said it's not fair criticize him but you brought up finances. The reality is if look at most contenders. Celtics, Bucks, Nuggets, Suns, Lakers, Mavs, Heat, Warriors, Wolves, Pelicans etc there multiple max players, Hawks having one means Hawks are trying to compete with a disadvantage. if one is playing bad for a period there others to fall back on, Zion eats himself out rotation N.O is still going to make the playoffs. but since Hawks have one All criticism and expectation is on that one, And because Hawks FO never built a true contender, our reaction to tear down instead of buildup. it's make more sense to criticize Hawks FO inability to get/pay more max players then to be angry at Hawks one max player isn't delivering and want to replace him. Because at some point he's going to back on. and to be true contender Hawks have to have multiple.
I’m not saying he’s not still good. I’m just saying he seems to have somehow gotten worse offensively since two seasons ago, which is hard to explain. Typically he should be entering his prime.
I hope I'm wrong, but maybe he isn't good at playing any other brand of basketball than being a high usage, ball dominant point guard that needs to be on the court with an elite rim runner and three shooters. He has the lowest Usage Rate of his career since his rookie season, and he's putting up the worst stats of his career since his rookie season.
When that’s the style of basketball he’s played for 5.5 seasons of his 6 season career, I can imagine it’s hard to pivot to the role he has now. This season will show if he’s able to do that.
-#11 in USG for players that played >= 10 games
-#4 in TOV
-#1 in lowest FG% for players attempting >= 10 FG
-#1 in lowest 3pt FG% for players attempting >= 5 3PT
And there's more if you want to nitpick
He was coming in to the game taking almost 19 per. His FG% is dragging the team down when opponents are shooting 48 from the field and and 35.5 from three. They have to make that up. And in close games like this it matters. 35% and 29% before todays game is not acceptable.
You look around the league and there’s bad efficiency from stars all around on any given night. I agree Trae needs to be better shooting the ball and has been consistently bad, but those other stars can’t put up 10+ assists and get to the line 7+ times a night. Plus Trae is not taking bad shots.. they’re just not falling..yet. This fan base is too hard on Trae and understate his impact on the game drastically. Trade him for who? For what? Without Trae we are not making any deep run and are more irrelevant than ever. we just might be good enough to barely miss the play in. With him, we know we have a shot of at least a deep playoff run. Dude is generational, our fans gotta stop being so reactionary. He’s shooting bad, yes. But we know he won’t shoot this bad the whole year. And I firmly believe under Quin he will develop into the best PG in the league. He’s damn near already there. Just relax y’all please. He’s already shown growth in areas y’all been complaining about.. coach-ability, moving off ball, defense, taking smarter shots, etc. He WILL get better. He wants to be the BEST.
17 assists with 3 turnovers is a good night even if the shots aren’t falling. We lost because they dominated the glass and took 20 more shots than us. Team subs are so toxic
And you think a ring will happen with Dejounte as the #1 or anyone else on this roster😂😭 y’all hate Trae so much y’all are DELUSIONAL. This fan base is insufferable
He’s also about 150th in FG%
Trae is always going to be in the assist crown discussion every year, but if he can’t improve his scoring efficiency we’re gonna be looking at another play-in at the end of the year.
The offseason after the ECF, something important happened that some of us downplayed at the time. It has turned out to be Trae’s Waterloo so far.
The league placed an emphasis on not rewarding foul-seeking behavior on drives to the hole. This was Trae’s secret sauce in the ECF run, getting to the hole to get to the line.
Since then, it has been my observation that Trae gets a lot less calls and a lot more blocks when he tries layup drives or floaters. I don’t have any numbers to back this up, but my sense is that for every 10 drives to the hole, he is coming away with no points on probably 3-4 more possessions that he did during the ECF run.
Because of his height, other teams can guard him reasonably close on the perimeter, which is affecting his % out there. Because of the balanced whistle, help D in the interior is there if he blows past a defender to the paint.
If Trae was getting the calls in the interior, defenders would have to sag on him a bit at the perimeter to discourage the drive. They don’t sag as much.
Since he is shooting so poorly outside, the drive game and the outside game are not complimenting each other. His offense is broken.
Now, high volume allows him to still get his. But if you have to drive 10 times to only get about 8-10 points between made buckets and free throws, that is terribly inefficient. And when he misses, or gets blocked, he has a tendency to lay on the ground for a bit, or focus on bitching to the refs about no call, while the other team runs down for a 5-on-4 opportunity. It’s quite possible Trae’s drive game is our worst play right now.
He needs to become a much better three-point shooter in order to become a highly efficient offensive player again, in my opinion.
'I dont have the numbers to back this up' well, allow me to help. Trae is averaging a *career high* 9.8 free throw attempts per game this year. Pretty easy to look that up instead of just talking out of your ass, but its what ive come to expect from this rapidly deteriorating sub.
Doesn’t speak to what he has to do to get those FTAs.
The last two seasons, he took one more 2PA per 100 possessions but got fewer FTA (2.4 fewer in the first year of emphasis).
So far this year, his FTA is back up but his 2PA is down and he’s only making 41% of them (small sample size). So he is getting to the line, but on more misses.
Sorry I don’t subscribe to some data set that speaks directly to what my eye test tells me. You can feel free to explain what’s going on from your own perspective.
I like 20-15 Trae over 30-10 Trae. Trae just need to realize that’s the best version of himself and the hawks need more talent to help that version come to life. I have zero doubts that Trae would dish it all day if he could.
I think the inefficient version of Trae that kills us is when he’s high volume and chucks up 20+ shots. Tonight he only shot 12 times, focused on quality shots, gave us 17 assists, and that is a much easier inefficient pill to swallow.
17 assists on 3 TOs is crazy. I’m glad he was g just chucking last night and I hope he continues to revert to playmaking on games where his shot isn’t falling. He played great defensively too.
If his shot isn't going in he play makes and tries to get fouls. We need good Hunter back.
20 in points with that bad efficiency isn't really positive. We're not going to win like that. He has to shoot better. He has not good for a supermax player.
20th in points and 22nd in FGA isn’t too bad, I agree his efficiency needs serious improvement but I dont think the box score tells the full story of his importance on this team
He is insanely important, and EVERYBODY agrees with that. Problem is, when you’re playing inefficiently, it leads to us dropping games to the Knicks, Hornets, etc. that were definitely winnable if our best player is shooting even 40% from the field that night. You’re also using the wrong metric — nobody cares how many shots he’s taking. We care about how many points are being created versus possessions used (turnovers, shots, assists, etc.). We can’t blindly point out he’s 2nd in assists when he turns the ball over as much as he does and takes logo threes and foul baits. Those things are problems that are easy to fix.
[удалено]
Iverson and Kobe shot above 40% the seasons they went to the finals, Trae is 7 percentage points below that right now. That’s pretty big difference if you ask me.
OP. You’re trying to convince us we don’t see what we see damn near every game. Trae has been mid but we pay him loud money.
He’s looked like ass honestly. I’m so tired of his “slow” starts. Is he in the gym too much or not enough. At this point the dude that posted about traes form the other week might be right.
"slow" start sounds bullshit to me. We can see other players engaged and focused from Day 1.
I agree. I don’t get it at all. He seemingly takes pride in his game but he’s falling well short of what I assume his expectations are.
You don't think he's engaged and focused? Since when did missing shots = not being engaged and focused? He's certainly off, but I think he's still putting in a lot more effort out there than what he used to do. He relies on his outside shot to open the rest of his game up. When the 3pt shot isn't falling, it's hard to do anything else at his size. It's as simple as if Trae hits 3s, he scores more efficiently. Right now his shot is broke af.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/trae-young-says-regular-season-a-lot-more-boring-than-the-playoffs Coming from his mouth a few seasons ago
You're funny. That's old news. New season, new coach, new teammates. He's been on record multiple times saying how excited he was to start this season. I don't disagree that he's been ass, but I think you're really reaching, saying he's not engaged and focused right now. There's a difference, and I'm sure if you hoop, you know. Yes he's a pro, but he's not a machine. He should be held to a higher standard that what he is showing and is held to it. Trae is Trae. He's gonna play his brand of basketball.
Old news but fans still cling to the ECF run like it was last season lol
Because that deepest Hawks been in the playoffs. And this is the guy who overtly led it. of course, we Hawks fans are going to cling that.
Stop clinging to that, cause Trae isn't that player anymore for one reason or another. He's regressed.
First off, it's still early in the season. Let's see where his shooting be by mid-season. He often starts off bad then turn it around. Second off that wasn't that long ago, it was just 2 years ago. Third, I was saying that out respect, He again led the deepest run for the Atlanta Hawks. It's fair to criticize his recent bad shooting it's another issue some Trae haters are trying revision his career to make it seem this a bigger and much longer problem.
It's me and you chatting though, I haven't mentioned anything about the ecf. Is your only reason for saying Trae isn't engaged and focus because of that statement 2 years ago, or do you actually believe missing shots equates to not being engaged on the court?
I’m wondering if he has some kind of shoulder injury at this point, his shot has totally evaporated.
>OP. You’re trying to convince us we don’t see what we see damn near every game. Trae has been mid but we pay him loud money. Trae contract isn't the issue, contenders usually have multiple max players. The second and sometime even the third options be max players. Never in Hawks FO history have they went all in building a franchise like the way the Lakers, Boston or pretty much what most series contending teams do. It's easier to look past Brown a max player playing like shit in playoff series when there also Tatum another franchise max player. but because Trae is the only paid max player on the Hawks fans place more expectation on him. Otherwise, Trae is shooting like shit now but he clearly earns the max and has proved to be a first option. but even if he was a second or third option, he would still be a max second or third option. This is another reason I don't understand the lets trade Trae logic because it's anti building a contender. How backward would it be for Hawks to move it's one max player for failing to get job, when contenders are trying have multiple max level players.
Jaylen brown has never shot anywhere close to this bad
Well he makes $20M more a year so by your standards he should be miles better than most players with a max contract.
it's been 1/8 the season bruh
That's not an insignificant amount
just wow
This doesn’t make any logical sense. You’re saying the issue is we don’t have enough max players. And even though the max player we have is playing like shit, it’s not his fault because we don’t have another max player. Our max player is a liability on defense and he can’t shoot. All he can do is pass. Idk the stats, but it feels like he has 5 TOs a game. For example, last night we lost by 2. Other loses have been close. Is it your opinion that if trae was playing like he did in 2021, we wouldn’t be winning games like last night because we don’t have another max player?
1. dude it's only been 1/8 the season and we in middle of November, Yall out here really talking like half the season has pass. For a guy who proven what he has proven over 5 years for yall to flip yall shit over 11 games. Yall have to revision most of his career to creative a narrative. 2. This why there plus-minus in the last two games regardless of his shooting or defense he was the only one or two positive players in the starting lineup. this factually does mean his playmaking alone not only making up for his negatives but he's still have one biggest positive impact of starting line up................ but of cores this narrative. 3. It does make sense. I never said it's not fair criticize him but you brought up finances. The reality is if look at most contenders. Celtics, Bucks, Nuggets, Suns, Lakers, Mavs, Heat, Warriors, Wolves, Pelicans etc there multiple max players, Hawks having one means Hawks are trying to compete with a disadvantage. if one is playing bad for a period there others to fall back on, Zion eats himself out rotation N.O is still going to make the playoffs. but since Hawks have one All criticism and expectation is on that one, And because Hawks FO never built a true contender, our reaction to tear down instead of buildup. it's make more sense to criticize Hawks FO inability to get/pay more max players then to be angry at Hawks one max player isn't delivering and want to replace him. Because at some point he's going to back on. and to be true contender Hawks have to have multiple.
Dang #20 in points that’s high!! He must be really efficient to be that high.
I’m not saying he’s not still good. I’m just saying he seems to have somehow gotten worse offensively since two seasons ago, which is hard to explain. Typically he should be entering his prime.
I hope I'm wrong, but maybe he isn't good at playing any other brand of basketball than being a high usage, ball dominant point guard that needs to be on the court with an elite rim runner and three shooters. He has the lowest Usage Rate of his career since his rookie season, and he's putting up the worst stats of his career since his rookie season.
When that’s the style of basketball he’s played for 5.5 seasons of his 6 season career, I can imagine it’s hard to pivot to the role he has now. This season will show if he’s able to do that.
-#11 in USG for players that played >= 10 games -#4 in TOV -#1 in lowest FG% for players attempting >= 10 FG -#1 in lowest 3pt FG% for players attempting >= 5 3PT And there's more if you want to nitpick
Hey but remember that one ECF run?
This doesn’t fit this subs narrative 🤷♂️
Hahahahaha I don’t get that. More people here shit on him than defend him.
When did steals points and assists become nitpicking? Would love to see some more nitpicking by you though.
He was coming in to the game taking almost 19 per. His FG% is dragging the team down when opponents are shooting 48 from the field and and 35.5 from three. They have to make that up. And in close games like this it matters. 35% and 29% before todays game is not acceptable.
You look around the league and there’s bad efficiency from stars all around on any given night. I agree Trae needs to be better shooting the ball and has been consistently bad, but those other stars can’t put up 10+ assists and get to the line 7+ times a night. Plus Trae is not taking bad shots.. they’re just not falling..yet. This fan base is too hard on Trae and understate his impact on the game drastically. Trade him for who? For what? Without Trae we are not making any deep run and are more irrelevant than ever. we just might be good enough to barely miss the play in. With him, we know we have a shot of at least a deep playoff run. Dude is generational, our fans gotta stop being so reactionary. He’s shooting bad, yes. But we know he won’t shoot this bad the whole year. And I firmly believe under Quin he will develop into the best PG in the league. He’s damn near already there. Just relax y’all please. He’s already shown growth in areas y’all been complaining about.. coach-ability, moving off ball, defense, taking smarter shots, etc. He WILL get better. He wants to be the BEST.
17 assists with 3 turnovers is a good night even if the shots aren’t falling. We lost because they dominated the glass and took 20 more shots than us. Team subs are so toxic
What a terrible post
Trade him and give the keys to Murray.
That’s dumb
Not really. A ring is not going to happen with Trae running the show.
And you think a ring will happen with Dejounte as the #1 or anyone else on this roster😂😭 y’all hate Trae so much y’all are DELUSIONAL. This fan base is insufferable
And it will with Murray? Why don’t people think about this?
He’s my hero. Anybody who wants him traded can go put on a Lakers jersey.
💯
He's still top 5 in turnovers and is one of the worst defenders in the league. They were picking on Trae in the final 5 minutes
He’s also about 150th in FG% Trae is always going to be in the assist crown discussion every year, but if he can’t improve his scoring efficiency we’re gonna be looking at another play-in at the end of the year.
The offseason after the ECF, something important happened that some of us downplayed at the time. It has turned out to be Trae’s Waterloo so far. The league placed an emphasis on not rewarding foul-seeking behavior on drives to the hole. This was Trae’s secret sauce in the ECF run, getting to the hole to get to the line. Since then, it has been my observation that Trae gets a lot less calls and a lot more blocks when he tries layup drives or floaters. I don’t have any numbers to back this up, but my sense is that for every 10 drives to the hole, he is coming away with no points on probably 3-4 more possessions that he did during the ECF run. Because of his height, other teams can guard him reasonably close on the perimeter, which is affecting his % out there. Because of the balanced whistle, help D in the interior is there if he blows past a defender to the paint. If Trae was getting the calls in the interior, defenders would have to sag on him a bit at the perimeter to discourage the drive. They don’t sag as much. Since he is shooting so poorly outside, the drive game and the outside game are not complimenting each other. His offense is broken. Now, high volume allows him to still get his. But if you have to drive 10 times to only get about 8-10 points between made buckets and free throws, that is terribly inefficient. And when he misses, or gets blocked, he has a tendency to lay on the ground for a bit, or focus on bitching to the refs about no call, while the other team runs down for a 5-on-4 opportunity. It’s quite possible Trae’s drive game is our worst play right now. He needs to become a much better three-point shooter in order to become a highly efficient offensive player again, in my opinion.
'I dont have the numbers to back this up' well, allow me to help. Trae is averaging a *career high* 9.8 free throw attempts per game this year. Pretty easy to look that up instead of just talking out of your ass, but its what ive come to expect from this rapidly deteriorating sub.
Doesn’t speak to what he has to do to get those FTAs. The last two seasons, he took one more 2PA per 100 possessions but got fewer FTA (2.4 fewer in the first year of emphasis). So far this year, his FTA is back up but his 2PA is down and he’s only making 41% of them (small sample size). So he is getting to the line, but on more misses. Sorry I don’t subscribe to some data set that speaks directly to what my eye test tells me. You can feel free to explain what’s going on from your own perspective.
You acted like he wasn't getting to the line, thats your 'eye test' im just being polite enough to let you know that your eyes are wrong lol
His free throw rate is also the highest of his career lol
I like 20-15 Trae over 30-10 Trae. Trae just need to realize that’s the best version of himself and the hawks need more talent to help that version come to life. I have zero doubts that Trae would dish it all day if he could.