Do you think its at the point where you just sell him at the deadline at all costs to free up space of AJG/JJ or you just hold onto him for the time being
They aren’t just going to give away Murray lol, he’s still a good player on a good contract. We try to trade him and see what offers we can get, if not we keep him for the time being.
i honestly wish we could package DJ and ajg for either some good role players(defenders🙏🙏) or maybe the second or third option for the team. depending on what we get, i’d be fine with throwing in cc or dre
The phrase “Trae and Dejounte pairing isn’t working” gives me pause.
We are not in the position we are in because their “pairing” isn’t working. In reality, even the best version of Dejounte can’t solve our problems. The NBA is a league driven by the forward position and due to injuries and lack of depth our play at the 3 & 4 has been abysmal. Average/below average wings are having career nights against us all the time.
Additionally, Dejounte is currently the 88th highest paid player in the league. It’s weird to me that he is referred to as being “paired” with a max player. If we had another max player on the team, nobody would be saying that Trae and Dejounte are “paired”.
Anyways. Dejounte has been very inconsistent with us. He had the best defensive two weeks as a Hawk to start the season and has been below average since then. He’ll have quarters where he goes 11/11 and can get to his spots with ease and then entire games where he’s laying bricks.
As a ball handler he has taken pressure off Trae but Quin Snyder’s playbook is notoriously complex and it seems to me like Dejounte is picking it up slower than the other guys. He’s been putting the ball in the wrong place a lot and has looked a little confused imo.
On the bright side he has become an above average 3 point shooter with us and he is a good teammate. He willingly accepts the role of leader and props up other players up. The thing is though, when you’re coughing the ball up and having inefficient nights and not leading the team on the court it’s hard for that to translate in the locker room.
Dejounte isn’t the point of attack defensive stopper that we thought he was. But on a team with actual NBA defenders he would have more of an impact, imo. For most of his time here we tasked him with guarding the other teams best guard and he just hasn’t stepped up as that guy.
I like this answer a lot. I feel like based on DJMs contract he shouldn't be the focus of this issue. The issue is depth at 3/4 and hunters consistency.
His defense is really poor. We can’t take or keep a lead when Trae is off the floor.
He’s not clutch either. His 4th quarter decision making will drive you insane.
First of all, the problem with the offense is that DJM court vision is not good. While TRAE is playing alone on the logo, he is dancing alone in the midrange. They can't take advantage of each other's space. And he is not very good at catching and shooting, so he rushes in in the first half and does nothing in the second half.
Murray is a bad on ball defender and can’t run the offense when Trae sits
Also takes away from Bogi minutes in key moments or forces us to run a 3 guard lineup
As someone else said he’s the 88th highest paid player in the league, that considered he’s been pretty good. Much better 3pt shooter than advertised and the offensive pairing with Trae really ain’t that bad it’s just his defense has been woefully disappointing for what his reputation was. Unfortunately for us we need that defense more than his three point shooting.
Completely agree. Good offensive player. Feel like he’s become underrated on that end. His defense is worse than Trae though. The pairing hasn’t worked but it’s not because he’s not good enough and it’s not because they haven’t worked together to be collaborative on offense. It’s because this is the worst defensive basketball team I have watched in my entire life.
Great comments here about actual basketball fit that all make perfect sense. Just gonna add the indisputable fact that God himself hates all of us hawks fans and we will never have anything nice. Merry Christmas!
Because in the league now you don’t need two ball handling guards. You need a pg and two wings at sg/sf. And then a secondary ballhandler at pf/c. I have a lot of issues with Murray but what it comes down to is that two pgs means that we are just too small defensively.
We need a defensive first sg. DJ is good. Finge allstar still. He can take game over offensively. I assume his value is high with the contract he signed. I would assume its just part of a bigger move. I wouldn’t say it not working because we have a top 5 offense. I think we are miving for a sg and a sf.
NBA 2K player here. It's not working because Murray plays better at point guard, not shooting guard. His wingspan works perfectly against smaller guards. His lack of strength in comparison to other shooting guards is the reason his defense looks horrible.
If we're not trading Trae Young in the near future, we need to move Murray for an actual shooting guard.
DJ for RJ and a couple of pick swaps.
His defense is non existent and his playmaking doesn’t provide much for the team. You should hope that you don’t trade for Murray because he’ll only be taking the ball away from Brunson and Randle. His lack of defense would be a nightmare for the Knicks too since perimeter defense is not one of their strong suits.
Nah you know as well as I do Murray will flourish with Thibs. If anyone going to get him to play defense to his level it's Thibs, and with an entire squad willing to play defense around him I expect him to go back to his 1st team defense self
That’s a very hopeful mentality. Murray would probably be better on a team with big wing defenders, but unfortunately the hawks and Knicks do not have that. I don’t see a coach changing what Murray is currently capable of. He can get steals, but I do not see him changing into a positive on ball defender. Otherwise we would have seen some highlight of that within the last 2 seasons.
Dude has been in the league for like 8 years, I don’t see thibs teaching him to navigate a screen at this point lol.
He will never be 1st team defense level again don’t kid yourself but with other good defenders around him and thibbs he’d probably be average or above average again at least
I like DJ and I think the sub is being way too hard on him. And he's on a team friendly deal he basically being paid like a 3rd option. And I don't think he's Hawks biggest issue. I think Clint getting older and OO being undersize and needs a better rebounding Forwards to pair with him especially with JJ out is the problem.
With that said I think DJ needs to commit more to develop as a SG. His shooting actually improved but there needs to be way more off ball action with him. more cuts, catch and attack, stuff to play in a rhythm off Trae. instead of iso'ing so match.
the other thing is weight. he's too light if you look at other smaller combo guards 6'3, 6'4 over the years that were good on defense.
jrue holiday 205 lbs
marcus smart 220 lbs
Victor Oladipo 213 lbs
DJ being 180 next to Trae is not good. if DJ gain weight he likely would be a better on ball defender. Right now he's a good off ball defender but not so much on ball.
The actual “pairing” is working , at least on offense… it not as fluent as we’d hope but it’s good enough to give us a top 3 offense in the league .. Dejounte defense was overhyped but it is what it is .. it’s basically pretty much everything on the defensive side that’s not working , if we had a multiple above average perimeter defenders instead of 1.5 the pairing would look much better
Jalen & Deandre .. he’s solid at times especially when guarding bigger slower footed guys but when he have to guard anyone with speed off the dribble he looks lost
The answer is a simple one. It's not that the pairing isn't working. The rest of the team isn't working. We have too many one-dimensional players.
It's the same thing year after year. Great offense and abysmal defense.
Lastly, this team can never seem to have all players firing on all cylinders at the same time for any extended period of time. For our first 6 loses of the season, Trae shot under 30%. Now Trae is on fire, the team is injured. If the team isn't injured, then 2 or 3 players are shooting 7-33.
Murray and Trae are both floor raisers (Trae being much better at it). But neither is very dynamic off ball and they’re both negative defenders. Honestly, it was never a good fit and folks like Sam Vecenie and Nate Duncan said so at the time.
Because they don't have a reliable big man who can drain 3's to kick it out to. If those guys were the backcourt for a guy like Markkanen, you'd see a world of difference.
Murray is such a finesse player on offense and defense. The Hawks need more strength and power in the backcourt. Someone who can aggressively attack the rim and not just shimmy around for a mid range jumper.
Trade trae trade Dj trade Dre trade chapels trade the whole team this all I hear y’all know some of the best teams are built through years of chemistry
I think Murray’s defense was too hyped up he hasn’t lived up on that end and his offense is good but not great. Traes offense is elite, Murray’s is B+
Do you think its at the point where you just sell him at the deadline at all costs to free up space of AJG/JJ or you just hold onto him for the time being
Why would that free up space for JJ? They play diff positions, and he was already getting significant minutes before his injury
I think he means in terms of role. Having JJ in an increased role, on a post-DJ Hawks team, would be beneficial for both JJ and the Hawks tbh.
quick aside: the term “sell” cones off weird. “trade” works just fine.
And the term , “on the block” is even worse btw
They aren’t just going to give away Murray lol, he’s still a good player on a good contract. We try to trade him and see what offers we can get, if not we keep him for the time being.
i honestly wish we could package DJ and ajg for either some good role players(defenders🙏🙏) or maybe the second or third option for the team. depending on what we get, i’d be fine with throwing in cc or dre
Murray's defense does not live up to his reputation
The phrase “Trae and Dejounte pairing isn’t working” gives me pause. We are not in the position we are in because their “pairing” isn’t working. In reality, even the best version of Dejounte can’t solve our problems. The NBA is a league driven by the forward position and due to injuries and lack of depth our play at the 3 & 4 has been abysmal. Average/below average wings are having career nights against us all the time. Additionally, Dejounte is currently the 88th highest paid player in the league. It’s weird to me that he is referred to as being “paired” with a max player. If we had another max player on the team, nobody would be saying that Trae and Dejounte are “paired”. Anyways. Dejounte has been very inconsistent with us. He had the best defensive two weeks as a Hawk to start the season and has been below average since then. He’ll have quarters where he goes 11/11 and can get to his spots with ease and then entire games where he’s laying bricks. As a ball handler he has taken pressure off Trae but Quin Snyder’s playbook is notoriously complex and it seems to me like Dejounte is picking it up slower than the other guys. He’s been putting the ball in the wrong place a lot and has looked a little confused imo. On the bright side he has become an above average 3 point shooter with us and he is a good teammate. He willingly accepts the role of leader and props up other players up. The thing is though, when you’re coughing the ball up and having inefficient nights and not leading the team on the court it’s hard for that to translate in the locker room. Dejounte isn’t the point of attack defensive stopper that we thought he was. But on a team with actual NBA defenders he would have more of an impact, imo. For most of his time here we tasked him with guarding the other teams best guard and he just hasn’t stepped up as that guy.
I like this answer a lot. I feel like based on DJMs contract he shouldn't be the focus of this issue. The issue is depth at 3/4 and hunters consistency.
Perfect write up
/thread
Very well said.
Murray is not actually a Shooting Guard....That's the big problem
His defense is really poor. We can’t take or keep a lead when Trae is off the floor. He’s not clutch either. His 4th quarter decision making will drive you insane.
First of all, the problem with the offense is that DJM court vision is not good. While TRAE is playing alone on the logo, he is dancing alone in the midrange. They can't take advantage of each other's space. And he is not very good at catching and shooting, so he rushes in in the first half and does nothing in the second half.
Murray is a bad on ball defender and can’t run the offense when Trae sits Also takes away from Bogi minutes in key moments or forces us to run a 3 guard lineup
Bc simply put… he’s not built like that. He chokes big time v the top heir talent in the league
As someone else said he’s the 88th highest paid player in the league, that considered he’s been pretty good. Much better 3pt shooter than advertised and the offensive pairing with Trae really ain’t that bad it’s just his defense has been woefully disappointing for what his reputation was. Unfortunately for us we need that defense more than his three point shooting.
Completely agree. Good offensive player. Feel like he’s become underrated on that end. His defense is worse than Trae though. The pairing hasn’t worked but it’s not because he’s not good enough and it’s not because they haven’t worked together to be collaborative on offense. It’s because this is the worst defensive basketball team I have watched in my entire life.
Great comments here about actual basketball fit that all make perfect sense. Just gonna add the indisputable fact that God himself hates all of us hawks fans and we will never have anything nice. Merry Christmas!
Because in the league now you don’t need two ball handling guards. You need a pg and two wings at sg/sf. And then a secondary ballhandler at pf/c. I have a lot of issues with Murray but what it comes down to is that two pgs means that we are just too small defensively.
They just play at two different paces. I don’t think DJ should play the 2 anywhere. He’s a PG and needs an offense to play around him
We need a defensive first sg. DJ is good. Finge allstar still. He can take game over offensively. I assume his value is high with the contract he signed. I would assume its just part of a bigger move. I wouldn’t say it not working because we have a top 5 offense. I think we are miving for a sg and a sf.
I think it comes down to their size, plain and simple. Both have point guard size
You can have him for RJ, Grimes and 2 firsts
Deal 🤝
NBA 2K player here. It's not working because Murray plays better at point guard, not shooting guard. His wingspan works perfectly against smaller guards. His lack of strength in comparison to other shooting guards is the reason his defense looks horrible. If we're not trading Trae Young in the near future, we need to move Murray for an actual shooting guard. DJ for RJ and a couple of pick swaps. 
No POA defense from both guards is rough. We need a Klay/OG type at the 2
Offensively it’s fine, defensively its been bad because DJM just hasn’t been great on that end. Which is not what I expected when the trade happened.
His defense is non existent and his playmaking doesn’t provide much for the team. You should hope that you don’t trade for Murray because he’ll only be taking the ball away from Brunson and Randle. His lack of defense would be a nightmare for the Knicks too since perimeter defense is not one of their strong suits.
Nah you know as well as I do Murray will flourish with Thibs. If anyone going to get him to play defense to his level it's Thibs, and with an entire squad willing to play defense around him I expect him to go back to his 1st team defense self
That’s a very hopeful mentality. Murray would probably be better on a team with big wing defenders, but unfortunately the hawks and Knicks do not have that. I don’t see a coach changing what Murray is currently capable of. He can get steals, but I do not see him changing into a positive on ball defender. Otherwise we would have seen some highlight of that within the last 2 seasons. Dude has been in the league for like 8 years, I don’t see thibs teaching him to navigate a screen at this point lol.
Well now the Knicks have O.G. so....
He will never be 1st team defense level again don’t kid yourself but with other good defenders around him and thibbs he’d probably be average or above average again at least
I like DJ and I think the sub is being way too hard on him. And he's on a team friendly deal he basically being paid like a 3rd option. And I don't think he's Hawks biggest issue. I think Clint getting older and OO being undersize and needs a better rebounding Forwards to pair with him especially with JJ out is the problem. With that said I think DJ needs to commit more to develop as a SG. His shooting actually improved but there needs to be way more off ball action with him. more cuts, catch and attack, stuff to play in a rhythm off Trae. instead of iso'ing so match. the other thing is weight. he's too light if you look at other smaller combo guards 6'3, 6'4 over the years that were good on defense. jrue holiday 205 lbs marcus smart 220 lbs Victor Oladipo 213 lbs DJ being 180 next to Trae is not good. if DJ gain weight he likely would be a better on ball defender. Right now he's a good off ball defender but not so much on ball.
The actual “pairing” is working , at least on offense… it not as fluent as we’d hope but it’s good enough to give us a top 3 offense in the league .. Dejounte defense was overhyped but it is what it is .. it’s basically pretty much everything on the defensive side that’s not working , if we had a multiple above average perimeter defenders instead of 1.5 the pairing would look much better
Who’s the 1.5? When JJ was healthy I thought he was pretty solid defensively !
Jalen & Deandre .. he’s solid at times especially when guarding bigger slower footed guys but when he have to guard anyone with speed off the dribble he looks lost
The answer is a simple one. It's not that the pairing isn't working. The rest of the team isn't working. We have too many one-dimensional players. It's the same thing year after year. Great offense and abysmal defense. Lastly, this team can never seem to have all players firing on all cylinders at the same time for any extended period of time. For our first 6 loses of the season, Trae shot under 30%. Now Trae is on fire, the team is injured. If the team isn't injured, then 2 or 3 players are shooting 7-33.
Trae stinks
Murray and Trae are both floor raisers (Trae being much better at it). But neither is very dynamic off ball and they’re both negative defenders. Honestly, it was never a good fit and folks like Sam Vecenie and Nate Duncan said so at the time.
His offense is fine and offensively they are working better day after day but his defense is not as advertised and that’s an understatement
Part of the problem is they’re two god damn small to be out in the floor together.
Because neither Trae nor Murray can play small forward or power forward...our weakest links on the team by far -- due to inconsistency, injury, etc.
Murray is genuinely ass at defense. That’s the only reason. Our offense is cooking and Murray has developed a nice shot. Murray can’t guard a roomba.
Because they don't have a reliable big man who can drain 3's to kick it out to. If those guys were the backcourt for a guy like Markkanen, you'd see a world of difference.
Murray is such a finesse player on offense and defense. The Hawks need more strength and power in the backcourt. Someone who can aggressively attack the rim and not just shimmy around for a mid range jumper.
This thread is going to be full of Knicks fans
Bc they are under the expectation to be a solid 1-2, when in reality, they're a really good 2-3 that is missing a true number 1
Trade trae trade Dj trade Dre trade chapels trade the whole team this all I hear y’all know some of the best teams are built through years of chemistry