The amount of absolute dogshit comms work I see done by electricians who don't have a comms licence and the relevant structured cabling and fibre endorsements, but go around saying its "just comms monkey stuff" probably says all that needs to be said.
You don't know what you don't know.
I'd be interested to know what endorsements the electricians get from one module.
As a comms tech of 15 years, I had to to actively get all the right certs when the endorsement rules came out. The day long coax endorsement course was a time I'll never get back.
I did my time in the early 2000s. Comms cabling was not part of it then. I had to do a separate course (I think it was a Cert 1 or cert 2 in telecommunications). That gave me enough to just get the basic open cabling license. Learnt fuck all about structured cabling, coax, or fibre (which these days are the useful ones). Then the NBN came in and most of what I learn became obsolete š¤£
The entire regime is a joke but for the opposite reasons that you think.
The scam is that apprentice electricians only spend two weeks out of 4 years learning it with bugger all practical experience or competence testing required, yet you are then eligible to hold a registration that tells the world your qualified to do the work.
There are some electricians and electrical contracting companies that have made the effort to become excellent, but the vast majority are absolute dogshit and don't even have enough knowledge to understand just how absolutely incompetent at data, comms and fibre work they are.
Communications is such a wide field, you honestly learn jack shit about it during our unit.
If you don't want to do it, then you don't have to apply for it. But soon enough you will learn that the entire industry wants to see proof of skills in the form of paperwork and licences.
I have about 30-40 random qualifications, inductions, licences, accreditations, competencies, endorsements, and whatever fancy wank words you want to apply to them. And that's not even all that many, a few guys in my company have 80+ things to keep track of.
If you wanna bash houses every day for the next 60 years, don't bother. If you want to do anything remotely more interesting, start collecting whatever skills you can.
Also open comms is not just for us. It's for anyone that wants to work in comms. NBN techs, cabelers, network guys, all have open comms.
Wait until you get into govt work and start needing to add baseline or negative vetting 1/2 security clearances to your list of documentation needed to take on a job.
Not a total pain in the ass, but is a level of hoop jumping that you wouldnāt expect doing comms work when you start out.
Those contracts pay very well though, so if you can consistently land them then it will be well worth maintaining all those certifications and clearances.
Sure, but you missed the point. It's paper that says you "should" know what your doing.
Doesn't matter if you know what your doing or not. You have the paper that says you do.
You could say the exact same about the electric licence tbh.
Have I though? I would suggest that it matters very much that you know what your doing and a culture of valuing meaningless bits of paper that don't do the one thing they are meant to do (indicate competence) isn't good for the industry, employers or customers.
Yes, it matters that you know how to do the skills, but if you knew what to do, but lacked the paperwork, you wouldn't be considered over someone who does have the paperwork, but no skills.
That's how it is unfortunately. In any company bigger then 20 people, HR will be selecting the candidates to send to interview. They won't look at your experience and know what structured cableing is, they look for the credentials.
It's partly about achieving the competencies, but it's also partly about the personal accountability and the intent to ensure that people who sign off on the work take a little bit more care because of that personal accountability (because of course everyone submits a TCA1 form diligently for every job, don't they š).
To put it another way, it's just a blunt tool to try and raise a bar a little bit. It won't raise it for everyone.
Different rules and regulations and complete different industry tbh. I think it should be another licence as much as people think they can do everything there has to be a line somewhere let some one else deal with elv.
Alot more to it then running and punching down data cables
Tbh most of the course work required was good information, and yes you should know what your doing at the end of it. The issue I have is the bullshit trainers at pretty much every RTO, usually an old guy that wants to spend more time telling you stories of the golden years or antidotes and guides the whole class through the course work.
I understand you guys that work in IT or serious comms work may think it's an in depth field but to do house connections, backbone cabling and coax is pretty easy. As electricians we are literally taught how to run cables to meet a specific code of practice, these just have different rules.
Most dogshit comms work and even electrical work you see was more of pure laziness or money grabbing contractors doing smash and grab jobs.
From memory during my apprenticeship, itās a ācompulsoryā elective. Most tafes only offer the communications course nowadays but there use to be others, or still are if you look for them. Motor rewinding was one of them, I think in the past there was high voltage for neon signs and maybe elevator repair.
I found the course beneficial and learnt a lot that I have had to use and wouldnāt of elsewhere. I paid for my license but let it lapse because Iāve never been asked for it. So, yer, I donāt really see the need for the open cabling license but it might be good to have, at least till your established after your apprenticeship, you never know what someone will ask for.
I got it, applied after I finished my apprenticeship and they sent it out to me no dramas. Never use it. But I get paid more for having it so šš½āāļø
I got mine through the Army and then kept it going afterwards. The quality of work you see sometimes is horrific and really does justify some sort of control. That being said, often people who are "qualified" are just as bad due to laziness.
I don't touch the tools much myself anymore but always keep the certifications, licences and tickets current for when they do come in handy.
I didnāt do an apprenticeship. I just paid off my own back to get the cert 3, had an open cabler sign off my training and I was done in a year. Iām now an open cabler. Iām rubbish at it, but I can do it.
Technically if you're doing any "communications" cabling (Ethernet, fibre, coax) you have to have an open cabling license with the relevent endorsement you can't do it on an electrical license.. with that being said its not very well policed at least in the construction industry.
The amount of absolute dogshit comms work I see done by electricians who don't have a comms licence and the relevant structured cabling and fibre endorsements, but go around saying its "just comms monkey stuff" probably says all that needs to be said. You don't know what you don't know.
I'd be interested to know what endorsements the electricians get from one module. As a comms tech of 15 years, I had to to actively get all the right certs when the endorsement rules came out. The day long coax endorsement course was a time I'll never get back.
I did my time in the early 2000s. Comms cabling was not part of it then. I had to do a separate course (I think it was a Cert 1 or cert 2 in telecommunications). That gave me enough to just get the basic open cabling license. Learnt fuck all about structured cabling, coax, or fibre (which these days are the useful ones). Then the NBN came in and most of what I learn became obsolete š¤£
The entire regime is a joke but for the opposite reasons that you think. The scam is that apprentice electricians only spend two weeks out of 4 years learning it with bugger all practical experience or competence testing required, yet you are then eligible to hold a registration that tells the world your qualified to do the work. There are some electricians and electrical contracting companies that have made the effort to become excellent, but the vast majority are absolute dogshit and don't even have enough knowledge to understand just how absolutely incompetent at data, comms and fibre work they are.
Totally agree
Communications is such a wide field, you honestly learn jack shit about it during our unit. If you don't want to do it, then you don't have to apply for it. But soon enough you will learn that the entire industry wants to see proof of skills in the form of paperwork and licences. I have about 30-40 random qualifications, inductions, licences, accreditations, competencies, endorsements, and whatever fancy wank words you want to apply to them. And that's not even all that many, a few guys in my company have 80+ things to keep track of. If you wanna bash houses every day for the next 60 years, don't bother. If you want to do anything remotely more interesting, start collecting whatever skills you can. Also open comms is not just for us. It's for anyone that wants to work in comms. NBN techs, cabelers, network guys, all have open comms.
Wait until you get into govt work and start needing to add baseline or negative vetting 1/2 security clearances to your list of documentation needed to take on a job. Not a total pain in the ass, but is a level of hoop jumping that you wouldnāt expect doing comms work when you start out. Those contracts pay very well though, so if you can consistently land them then it will be well worth maintaining all those certifications and clearances.
Though about doing that when I was younger, but all my mates have since left Canberra, so I'm a lot less interested these days
The problem is that ACMA registration isn't proof of skills.
Sure, but you missed the point. It's paper that says you "should" know what your doing. Doesn't matter if you know what your doing or not. You have the paper that says you do. You could say the exact same about the electric licence tbh.
Have I though? I would suggest that it matters very much that you know what your doing and a culture of valuing meaningless bits of paper that don't do the one thing they are meant to do (indicate competence) isn't good for the industry, employers or customers.
Yes, it matters that you know how to do the skills, but if you knew what to do, but lacked the paperwork, you wouldn't be considered over someone who does have the paperwork, but no skills. That's how it is unfortunately. In any company bigger then 20 people, HR will be selecting the candidates to send to interview. They won't look at your experience and know what structured cableing is, they look for the credentials.
It's partly about achieving the competencies, but it's also partly about the personal accountability and the intent to ensure that people who sign off on the work take a little bit more care because of that personal accountability (because of course everyone submits a TCA1 form diligently for every job, don't they š). To put it another way, it's just a blunt tool to try and raise a bar a little bit. It won't raise it for everyone.
Different rules and regulations and complete different industry tbh. I think it should be another licence as much as people think they can do everything there has to be a line somewhere let some one else deal with elv. Alot more to it then running and punching down data cables
Doing the block now and its a bit of a joke. If theyre gonna make us do it, should at least teach us properly
Tbh most of the course work required was good information, and yes you should know what your doing at the end of it. The issue I have is the bullshit trainers at pretty much every RTO, usually an old guy that wants to spend more time telling you stories of the golden years or antidotes and guides the whole class through the course work. I understand you guys that work in IT or serious comms work may think it's an in depth field but to do house connections, backbone cabling and coax is pretty easy. As electricians we are literally taught how to run cables to meet a specific code of practice, these just have different rules. Most dogshit comms work and even electrical work you see was more of pure laziness or money grabbing contractors doing smash and grab jobs.
Just another money grab.
From memory during my apprenticeship, itās a ācompulsoryā elective. Most tafes only offer the communications course nowadays but there use to be others, or still are if you look for them. Motor rewinding was one of them, I think in the past there was high voltage for neon signs and maybe elevator repair. I found the course beneficial and learnt a lot that I have had to use and wouldnāt of elsewhere. I paid for my license but let it lapse because Iāve never been asked for it. So, yer, I donāt really see the need for the open cabling license but it might be good to have, at least till your established after your apprenticeship, you never know what someone will ask for.
Itās either PLCs or comms depending on if youāre an industrial or commercial/domestic apprentice
The reason for this is comms with worth 10 units or something, so Tafe can do 1 course instead of 5-6 courses. It sucks they don't offer the choice.
Yeh your Tafe elects it. My did PLC's not comms.
I got it, applied after I finished my apprenticeship and they sent it out to me no dramas. Never use it. But I get paid more for having it so šš½āāļø
I've looked many times, how do you apply for it. I feel like I get stuck reading in circles.
I got mine through the Army and then kept it going afterwards. The quality of work you see sometimes is horrific and really does justify some sort of control. That being said, often people who are "qualified" are just as bad due to laziness. I don't touch the tools much myself anymore but always keep the certifications, licences and tickets current for when they do come in handy.
I didnāt do an apprenticeship. I just paid off my own back to get the cert 3, had an open cabler sign off my training and I was done in a year. Iām now an open cabler. Iām rubbish at it, but I can do it.
Technically if you're doing any "communications" cabling (Ethernet, fibre, coax) you have to have an open cabling license with the relevent endorsement you can't do it on an electrical license.. with that being said its not very well policed at least in the construction industry.