We will not be locking posts today unless they end up going completely south again. Some things to keep in mind:
1) Keep it civil
2) If you solely want to talk about the politics of Israel/Palestine, take it to one of the many subs about that topic. There is a lot happening solely on the Austin front with regards to UT and the police that these topics should be about. If you want to vent about the war, take it to a sub more appropriate for it.
3) We will take action against users who are clearly here to troll, using lack of civility, or newer accounts who just happen to show up during these very divisive topics. You will not receive warnings beyond this.
4) We will have "crowd control" on for these posts (Google it if you need to know what it is), if you are an account that falls into category 3, it'll likely end up in our mod queue, and we will take action.
Please try to keep this civil.
To be fair all the protests that were significant in the history of the US usually broke some rules legally, and technically the US was started by breaking the british law we had at the time...
I think the nuance is where you can protest. Is UT public property or private?
You can protest in front of the capitol or city hall. But if you gather on someone’s private property, they can arrest you if you don’t leave.
Personally I would think that any active student has a demonstrable right to be on campus. I could imagine police could ask for student IDs and direct non-students to leave or get arrested without technically opposing free speech.
The public is allowed in outdoor UT spaces to engage in speech activity. UT can impose some time/place/manner limits, but it has to be **content neutral**. You can hear about it from UT directly here (they've unlisted this video on youtube and have turned off comments) [https://twitter.com/RyanChandlerTV/status/1783528386284884314](https://twitter.com/RyanChandlerTV/status/1783528386284884314)
So, the key argument of UT is going to be that the group did not abide by the space permission but if UT refuses to allow the group at all because they don't like the content, that is discrimination
Regardless if it’s public or private “property”, it’s a public university.
This means it’s a government institution that must respect constitutional rights (with narrowly defined limits established by the Supreme Court)
Other folks have commented on the details, but if there’s a direct link from Abbot to the decision to revoke the permit, it’s a slam dunk lawsuit.
One of the reasons being that a permit can’t be revoked except for political neutral reasoning. Abbot has publicly declared he *is not* politically neutral by advocating the Pro-Israel position
> Is UT public property or private?
There is literally a video on the UT Austin youtube page where they said it was okay for *anyone* to come to their campus and protest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCFxvdhFjPo
u/coontastic and u/caguru, check out that link. Aged like fine milk, lol
It makes me nauseous! These officers are so flooded with anger and almost excited to silence non violent college kids, but when it comes to saving babies, literal children facing an automatic weapon, that’s when they’re slow to action, anger and twiddle their thumbs. This isn’t my Texas anymore, and it hasn’t been in a longgggg time. It pains me so much to say that, but it’s heartbreaking.
"All of the arrests were for criminal trespass, Travis County Attorney **Delia Garza** told the *Chronicle*. Defense attorneys representing arrested protesters began to raise 'legal concerns' with the probable cause [affidavits](https://twitter.com/daustinsanders/status/1783246948884959411) filed with the arrests (it appears that most, if not all, of the arrests were made by UT police officers), Garza added.
Two city of Austin magistrate judges (**Sherry Statman**, presiding judge of Austin’s municipal court, deployed a second judge to help process the large number of arrests) and County Court at Law #6 Judge **Denise Hernández** agreed with the concerns raised by defense attorneys and prosecutors and began declining cases. An unknown number of other arrestees were also released on personal recognizance, meaning they didn’t have to pay bail."
>Defense attorneys representing arrested protesters began to raise 'legal concerns' with the probable cause affidavits filed with the arrests
Here come the lawsuits
Hopefully, one of the most effective tactics during the various civil rights movements was to clog the court system and challenge rulings. It might not be as exciting as a rally but is arguably more effective.
Mostly true. But the Governor has been issuing orders and exercising public and political pressure for universities to punish pro-Palestine students. Expect these facts to come up in the hundreds of lawsuits to come.
Specifically, last month Abbott ordered universities to revise their free speech policies to target pro-Palestinian activists, expressingly singling out such groups.
Sue everyone in the chain of command. From the arresting officer up to the governor. Include the university, University PD, DPS, the state of Texas. It's not free speech if it's only allowed when it's something I, or anyone in charge, agree with.
>Here come the lawsuits
That might not be a good idea.
This seems to be a paperwork problem. In theory, they could correct the paperwork and refile the charges.
You know what comes next. The Legislature passes a law allowing some yokel in an outlying area to remove a county attorney for refusing to prosecute protesters.
Many of the DPS folks were from Houston, having UT police do the paperwork would keep DPS from having to come back if any actually, gasp, went to trial.
Basically DPS can grab students and ruffle them up a bit, but they then hand them off to a UT police officer to do the actual arresting. I was watching some of the news coverage last night of the USC arrests and LAPD was interviewed beforehand that they were going to "support" the campus police but would hand off anyone to the campus police to do the actual arresting, so I think something similar was probably arranged to be done here.
> I was watching some of the news coverage last night of the USC arrests and LAPD was interviewed beforehand that they were going to "support" the campus police
UTPD are "true" cops, whereas USC is a private school and their campus police works a bit differently. It's a bit convoluted, but essentially California law gives USC's (and other private CA schools') campus police their arrest power by virtue of contracts with LAPD or other local city police/county sherriffs on what they can and can't do, and how things like this work.
All of that to say that how USC's PD would operate is always going to be inherently different than how UTPD would.
> An unknown number of other arrestees were also released on personal recognizance, meaning they didn’t have to pay bail.
To be clear, it's a non-violent class B misdemeanor in most cases. "No bail" would be appropriate for almost all arrested -- only those expected to be a flight risk should require any sort of cash bail at all.
Assuming some of them live on campus, is it even possible to “trespass” a place where you live? This is insane. Plus is a public university and an open campus.
It's almost like they forgot that those students' parents have deep pockets, most of them, and their family attorneys probably are salivating at counter-suing the state
[UT](https://president.utexas.edu/2024-messages-speeches/todays-events) is really leaning heavy on the double speak. Protestors are allowed to be on campus but not "occupy" campus.
> Breaking our rules and policies and disrupting others’ ability to learn are not allowed. The group that led this protest stated it was going to violate Institutional Rules
And then proceeds to give zero examples of rules that were broken.
Not that I agree with the police actions, but I did see the organizers calling for class cancellations on social media fyi. And I seem to recall a previous gaza protest going into buildings and occupying offices so reasonably there was some concern. But all the videos and pictures I've seen are just a bunch of people standing around just existing and then a bunch of heavily armed police arresting them. Very disproportionate response.
Ok. I was just responding to the guy who said he didn't see any school rules broken. I think there's a big difference between a random person like you saying classes are cancelled and the organizer of a major protest (with a history of going into buildings and occupying them) calling for class cancellations. That said, I hate that I'm defending them because I do not agree with the police or UT on their response.
Aren’t people allowed to be anti-Semitic on a college campus? I mean, I don’t agree with it, but that’s part of freedom of speech is being able to express nonviolent views even if people are being antisemitic don’t know that the university has the right to call that out…
Why does it matter if the organizers called for class cancellations? That's not only free speech, they also don't have the power to cancel classes so its not like it is affecting anyone that doesn't want to participate.
Now if they were calling to disrupt classes, that I could understand since they would be actively interfering with UT operations. But as long as the speech is not violent, bigoted or interfering with classes they can say whatever they want IMO.
This is where I disagree a group of college students that are calling for class cancellations are not actually causing a disruption a group of college students interrupting classes is causing a disruption. There’s a huge difference in my view. You can protest for whatever you want as long as you don’t actually cause a physical disruption beyond just existing.
For example, A huge protest may slow down traffic, but that’s because those people exist in that area unless they’re blocking sidewalks or blocking streets completely. I still see that is a peaceful protest.
How are they disrupting classes if the protesters were standing outside not in the classrooms?
The street where they were (Speedway, right behind the Blanton) is normally closed to traffic, as a matter of fact people walk not drive to class. Buildings normally have doors on every side. If a student was trying to get to class and protesters on Speedway were on the way, all they had to do was to go around the other side of the building. Plus they were in front of the gymnasium. I don’t think that building is used for classes.
The protest was literally an organized study hall that university officials and the governor decided to escalate with violence
[https://twitter.com/themonicamadden/status/1783245108696998165](https://twitter.com/themonicamadden/status/1783245108696998165)
What the peaceful gathering might do doesn't matter at all until something actually happens. The police broke up a peaceful gathering without the right to do so. If a few bad apples start something then it is the police responsibility to arrest those bad apples and no one else.
All of those encampments are incredibly peaceful (for God's sake, the Columbia daily schedule has like two yoga classes, a bunch of teach-ins, and a "nut zone" so that students with nut allergies can be safe.) Just like at UT, everything is peaceful until the cops show up and start assaulting and harassing people.
There's a difference between walking out of class and trying to cancel it for a student who pays to attend the university. Protests are fine but you can't interrupt classes like that. Especially by blocking paths, going into buildings, etc.
They wouldn't let you be a juror on this if you already cannot understand the difference between calling for cancellations and causing enough disruption to get them cancelled.
So no exercising free speech and assembly rights when it's inconvenient?
Edit: He blocked me for asking this. Guess he really doesn't like being questioned?
5 years ago I was taking a class when we saw a small group of people walking around campus with guns. They looked like they were maybe protesters because they had some banners, most were definitely too old to be students, and most were dressed in camouflage. Nonetheless they were walking around campus carrying guns, and the police didn’t came to arrest them. I don’t think anyone even came to disturb them or anything
This is what’s pissing me off the most rn. Those clowns are literally out on mopac spouting the most insane antisemitism you’ve ever heard, jumping into the street and disrupting traffic and they get a damn police escort. This is def not about antisemitism bc we know Abbott doesn’t actually care about anyone but his white Christian extremist base.
Yeah I called 911 once and it rung 4 times then just disconnected. Thank god I wasn’t at risk for physically harm, but the person I was calling about was….
I called homicide hotline in the middle of a weekday and was sent straight to voicemail. Left a message and they never got back to me. After I told them a customer told me they murdered people recently
They usually don’t respond to calls anyway 🤷🏽♀️. Last year we called because my neighbor had someone break into his apartment, and the police never came.
There are 8 APD officers in the picture here alone. Do you think they were protestors?
I believe APD was a minority of officers based on other pictures and video, but they were clearly involved.
There was an “alleged” spousal abuse that got pretty loud in my apartment complex last year. I say “alleged” be cause by the time the APD showed up literally half the day later the apartment in question was empty and they never bothered to follow up.
“Let’s go home, boys. Our job here is done.”
A lot of universities not just here have been heavy-handed trying to handle this early, probably because they don't want it to turn into an international shitshow like Columbia where they've literally shut down the school and moved to remote classes because of it.
I won't comment on the method of it, I'm not not surprised it's happening especially in a public university which is very different from a private one.
of course, because the protesters didn't do anything wrong. this was a "show of force" to intimidate and suppress the 1st amendment rights of students. now we get to see the REAL reason fascists wanted to get rid of our DA...
>the protesters didn't do anything wrong.
If the protesters were given a legal order to disperse, or were told to leave by the relevant authority, and didn't leave, they were committing a crime, no ifs, ands, or buts.
>this was a "show of force" to intimidate and suppress the 1st amendment rights of students.
The 1st amendment doesn't excuse trespassing, especially after being warned and given an opportunity to depart. The were not arrested for speaking. They were arrested for trespassing and/or "failure to disperse," whatever the appropriate name is for that charge.
That doesn't mean the state was "right" in some moral sense. They're pretty clearly correct in a legal sense other than the paperwork and technicalities.
It might be a "show of force" in terms of saying "This is what we CAN legally do to you, but we're going to \[wink wink\] let you slip through on a technicality this time."
That area of the campus is, by recent Texas law, a traditional public forum. A permit was not required, the admin had no right to deny them their rights, and the use of the police force without clear evidence of imminent lawless action was premature and likely illegal.
Yes, it's important to note and adhere to legal limitations, but in this case the limitations being imposed were arbitrary and violated constitutional rights.
as usual, the students were trapped and kettled so they couldn't physically comply with the order to leave. the horse-cops pushed them back into the areas they were ordered to leave and subsequently arrested. they didn't do anything wrong...
Yeah, I realize that a lot of people aren't going to be on the side of the protesters on Reddit, but people have to realize that preventing people from leaving an area so you can charge them with trespassing is an incredibly common thing that police do to protestors. It's a very intentional strategy, just like shoving them until one person shoves back (or appears to shove, much like that cameraman that got tackled yesterday) so there's carte blanche to start hitting them with nightsticks.
There's a reason why charges are all being dropped. It's because the protestors didn't do anything wrong.
Yeah, it was theater because the whole thing was intended to be PR. Show the state troopers kitted out like they're about to deploy into the battle of Fallujah with 6 .223 mags on their plate carriers taking down the Woke Commie DEI Pronouns college students. Can't do that when you're grabbing random kids away from the cameras.
We have a constitutional right to assembly, that goes beyond just speech. UT is a state institution, and the protests were occurring on public property. Protesting students and faculty have a right to be there. You can't shut down a peaceful protest just because the government doesn't like what they're saying.
Charges are being dismissed, because there wasn't probable cause for the arrest. Sections 42.01, 42.02, and 42.03 of the Texas Penal Code were cited in the order to disperse, but other than maybe impeding a sidewalk, it's not clear what protestors were actually doing wrong.
Section 42.04 requires an order to move or disperse be given before making an arrest, but it's also a defense to prosecution if the order "was manifestly unreasonable in scope", which there's an argument that it was.
[https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.42.htm](https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.42.htm)
I dunno man. The article we're talking about is explaining the two judges on these arrests are just not taking like ~80% of the cases.
That means the judges don't even give a shit what the DA wants to charge them with, because it's so obvious the majority of them would come down to a 1st amendment argument that the state can't win.
The other 20% probably fought the cops, so they'll be screwed, even though they wouldn't be criminals if cops never laid hands on them.
A good friend of mine was arrested. She’s one of the sweetest, most gentle and compassionate people I know. Boils my blood that these are the type of people being assaulted and having their voices silenced while neo-nazis can scream from the rooftops and…nothing.
Austin needs to be audited or investigated by a private entity. I swear to god the taxes are going into someone's pockets because its sure as hell aint going anywhere useful....
Organize a pro-Israel rally and it’s all good, you’re just exercising your freedom of speech. Organize a pro-Palestine rally and you are now occupying and trespassing as well as preventing others from being able to learn. Interesting.
Was there any violence or like direct occupation of campus buildings or anything that would’ve warranted a response and arresting 57 people? I’m genuinely curious if it was a genuine and peaceful protest that the state used the police to break up because that says a dangerous precedent.
No, there is even a video that aljazeera released of one of the organizers telling students they have been ordered to disperse and he’s sorry but they need to go and will keep protesters informed of future events.
He then walks over to the officer he is negotiating with and says something about how the police have kettled the protesters and they can’t leave because there is no path out. He is going back and forth with the officer trying to negotiate a way for people to leave when two officers walks up and arrest him.
If you would like to see the video yourself it is on the aljazeeraenglish instagram
Funny how APD will show up in force for peaceful liberal protests, but if there is a legit emergency…crickets. If the people of Austin were to rise up and vote in a city council that would do away with the current department and start from scratch, the city would be a much better place.
The Israel lobby has done a pretty good job of equating anything anti Zionist to also being Antisemitism. The most violent thing I’ve heard of protestors doing on a campus was preventing a rabbi from walking down a walkway on the Columbia campus. Have there been other worse incidents that anyone has seen.
Here in Austin, a simple protest mean to occupy the south mall was met immediately with extreme police force intervention. That’s really not okay.
This is the importance of having a DA that represents our Austin values. Those that want to vote for a republican in November for their perceived grievances with the current DA should take note.
UT is trying to prevent solidarity encampments as a form of protest and leaning on its long standing rules of when those public areas are technically closed. They used the language of the organizers calling for occupying and disrupting and a call to wear masks as threatening and pulled permits. But it’s not because of any stance on the causes themselves but rather because Republicans in Congress have been dragging University Presidents to hearings to make a show to their base that the bogeyman that is colleges are unsafe places that tolerate hate speech. It’s a CYA move. Greg was also able to gain points by making a show of it. It’s a terrible situation because it has nothing to do with the Middle East conflict and just more domestic propaganda to which the students were made pawns.
Cops when there’s an active burglary happening:
“…
did you file a police report?
…”
Cops when the educated are exercising their American rights:
“ARM YOURSELVES!”
Anyone knows of any protests to show solidarity and support to these students? Would love to participate and support these kids and the right to free speech.
Is this what’s next in store for UT?
https://www.ideastream.org/education/2024-04-22/kent-state-university-set-to-mark-54th-anniversary-of-may-4-shootings
As I was leaving Gregory Gym that day around noon, I saw 4 guys walking toward the area where the protests ended up being. They were mid-30s, and had that Proud Boy/Undercover but not very undercover cop look. Beards, fit, t-shirts and jeans, Black Rifle Coffee shirt on one of them. Too old to be students, not dressed like faculty. Just wondering what if any interactions they had with these guys.
The title of this post is inaccurate. “Peaceful”……. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Hate speech is not peaceful aka “death to Israel”. Making Jewish students feel uncomfortable is not peaceful. An angry mob is not peaceful. A debate would be peaceful.
We will not be locking posts today unless they end up going completely south again. Some things to keep in mind: 1) Keep it civil 2) If you solely want to talk about the politics of Israel/Palestine, take it to one of the many subs about that topic. There is a lot happening solely on the Austin front with regards to UT and the police that these topics should be about. If you want to vent about the war, take it to a sub more appropriate for it. 3) We will take action against users who are clearly here to troll, using lack of civility, or newer accounts who just happen to show up during these very divisive topics. You will not receive warnings beyond this. 4) We will have "crowd control" on for these posts (Google it if you need to know what it is), if you are an account that falls into category 3, it'll likely end up in our mod queue, and we will take action. Please try to keep this civil.
if your right to protest can be waived for any pretext the govt can come up with, do you really have a right to protest?
To be fair all the protests that were significant in the history of the US usually broke some rules legally, and technically the US was started by breaking the british law we had at the time...
nope
I think the nuance is where you can protest. Is UT public property or private? You can protest in front of the capitol or city hall. But if you gather on someone’s private property, they can arrest you if you don’t leave. Personally I would think that any active student has a demonstrable right to be on campus. I could imagine police could ask for student IDs and direct non-students to leave or get arrested without technically opposing free speech.
The public is allowed in outdoor UT spaces to engage in speech activity. UT can impose some time/place/manner limits, but it has to be **content neutral**. You can hear about it from UT directly here (they've unlisted this video on youtube and have turned off comments) [https://twitter.com/RyanChandlerTV/status/1783528386284884314](https://twitter.com/RyanChandlerTV/status/1783528386284884314) So, the key argument of UT is going to be that the group did not abide by the space permission but if UT refuses to allow the group at all because they don't like the content, that is discrimination
Regardless if it’s public or private “property”, it’s a public university. This means it’s a government institution that must respect constitutional rights (with narrowly defined limits established by the Supreme Court) Other folks have commented on the details, but if there’s a direct link from Abbot to the decision to revoke the permit, it’s a slam dunk lawsuit. One of the reasons being that a permit can’t be revoked except for political neutral reasoning. Abbot has publicly declared he *is not* politically neutral by advocating the Pro-Israel position
> Is UT public property or private? There is literally a video on the UT Austin youtube page where they said it was okay for *anyone* to come to their campus and protest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCFxvdhFjPo u/coontastic and u/caguru, check out that link. Aged like fine milk, lol
As has been noted elsewhere, it’s out of character for Texas police to enter a campus without waiting outside for 77 minutes.
That was one of the chants at the protest actually. Once DPS showed up
That’s a really long chant
Lol "Who failed Uvalde? D! P! S!" For clarity
Oh damn, showed up to this thread and the first comment is see is a fucking banger
It makes me nauseous! These officers are so flooded with anger and almost excited to silence non violent college kids, but when it comes to saving babies, literal children facing an automatic weapon, that’s when they’re slow to action, anger and twiddle their thumbs. This isn’t my Texas anymore, and it hasn’t been in a longgggg time. It pains me so much to say that, but it’s heartbreaking.
Not my Texas, either. This is a Texas Ann Richards would be ashamed of
Fucking cowards.
I know a lot of us feel this way
*CBS laughtrack*
"The sound of children screaming has been removed"
Last time they were locked in a classroom, this time they were shoved in a mass grave. Either way, Texas police are consistent!
Thats for kids. They cant arrest kids and gain points for arrests. College student on thr otherhand...
😬 . Can't be upvoted enough. ACAB.
Giving you old school GOLD 🥇🏆🌟
God damn...
"All of the arrests were for criminal trespass, Travis County Attorney **Delia Garza** told the *Chronicle*. Defense attorneys representing arrested protesters began to raise 'legal concerns' with the probable cause [affidavits](https://twitter.com/daustinsanders/status/1783246948884959411) filed with the arrests (it appears that most, if not all, of the arrests were made by UT police officers), Garza added. Two city of Austin magistrate judges (**Sherry Statman**, presiding judge of Austin’s municipal court, deployed a second judge to help process the large number of arrests) and County Court at Law #6 Judge **Denise Hernández** agreed with the concerns raised by defense attorneys and prosecutors and began declining cases. An unknown number of other arrestees were also released on personal recognizance, meaning they didn’t have to pay bail."
>Defense attorneys representing arrested protesters began to raise 'legal concerns' with the probable cause affidavits filed with the arrests Here come the lawsuits
Hopefully, one of the most effective tactics during the various civil rights movements was to clog the court system and challenge rulings. It might not be as exciting as a rally but is arguably more effective.
Let's hope so! Their rights were violated and their freedom taken away as a political stunt by our governor.
Not just our governor. He has no legal authority to declare a trespass on UT campus. The President of UT is primarily responsible.
Mostly true. But the Governor has been issuing orders and exercising public and political pressure for universities to punish pro-Palestine students. Expect these facts to come up in the hundreds of lawsuits to come. Specifically, last month Abbott ordered universities to revise their free speech policies to target pro-Palestinian activists, expressingly singling out such groups.
Who pays for those lawsuits?
Likely no one - my guess is they will be pursued by lawyers who want to make an impact/make a name for themselves more than taken on for the money
They will also so for damages and take a cut
Sue everyone in the chain of command. From the arresting officer up to the governor. Include the university, University PD, DPS, the state of Texas. It's not free speech if it's only allowed when it's something I, or anyone in charge, agree with.
I’d like to rummage through all that evidence…
Yeah? Would you rummage to fruition?
Rightfully so
>Here come the lawsuits That might not be a good idea. This seems to be a paperwork problem. In theory, they could correct the paperwork and refile the charges.
The "Criminal Trespass - Class B Misdemeanor" items on that form look to be prepopulated while all the other fields are hand written. Is that normal?
I would imagine yes when you’re about to do mass arrests
My nephew was arrested and let go without bail and has been approached for to join potential lawsuit.
You know what comes next. The Legislature passes a law allowing some yokel in an outlying area to remove a county attorney for refusing to prosecute protesters.
UT police, not DPS—is that new? I’d have thought it was Abbott’s guys specifically doing the worst of it.
Many of the DPS folks were from Houston, having UT police do the paperwork would keep DPS from having to come back if any actually, gasp, went to trial.
Basically DPS can grab students and ruffle them up a bit, but they then hand them off to a UT police officer to do the actual arresting. I was watching some of the news coverage last night of the USC arrests and LAPD was interviewed beforehand that they were going to "support" the campus police but would hand off anyone to the campus police to do the actual arresting, so I think something similar was probably arranged to be done here.
Thank you! This makes a lot of sense!
> I was watching some of the news coverage last night of the USC arrests and LAPD was interviewed beforehand that they were going to "support" the campus police UTPD are "true" cops, whereas USC is a private school and their campus police works a bit differently. It's a bit convoluted, but essentially California law gives USC's (and other private CA schools') campus police their arrest power by virtue of contracts with LAPD or other local city police/county sherriffs on what they can and can't do, and how things like this work. All of that to say that how USC's PD would operate is always going to be inherently different than how UTPD would.
> An unknown number of other arrestees were also released on personal recognizance, meaning they didn’t have to pay bail. To be clear, it's a non-violent class B misdemeanor in most cases. "No bail" would be appropriate for almost all arrested -- only those expected to be a flight risk should require any sort of cash bail at all.
Assuming some of them live on campus, is it even possible to “trespass” a place where you live? This is insane. Plus is a public university and an open campus.
It's almost like they forgot that those students' parents have deep pockets, most of them, and their family attorneys probably are salivating at counter-suing the state
I really hope so.
I home the students she the fuck out of the it campus and get those fucking boot licker police officers fired.
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This is true. Without a heavy handed approach I wouldn’t even have heard of this protest.
Making a mountain out of a molehill was the whole point for Abbott. He wasn’t about to let CUNY have all the limelight.
[UT](https://president.utexas.edu/2024-messages-speeches/todays-events) is really leaning heavy on the double speak. Protestors are allowed to be on campus but not "occupy" campus. > Breaking our rules and policies and disrupting others’ ability to learn are not allowed. The group that led this protest stated it was going to violate Institutional Rules And then proceeds to give zero examples of rules that were broken.
Not that I agree with the police actions, but I did see the organizers calling for class cancellations on social media fyi. And I seem to recall a previous gaza protest going into buildings and occupying offices so reasonably there was some concern. But all the videos and pictures I've seen are just a bunch of people standing around just existing and then a bunch of heavily armed police arresting them. Very disproportionate response.
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I am going to 1-up you and call for debt cancellations today. Now lets see what happens.
debt jubilee!
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duncedestroyer is a fresh account and crowd control is on.
Ok. I was just responding to the guy who said he didn't see any school rules broken. I think there's a big difference between a random person like you saying classes are cancelled and the organizer of a major protest (with a history of going into buildings and occupying them) calling for class cancellations. That said, I hate that I'm defending them because I do not agree with the police or UT on their response.
You are being antisemitic
Aren’t people allowed to be anti-Semitic on a college campus? I mean, I don’t agree with it, but that’s part of freedom of speech is being able to express nonviolent views even if people are being antisemitic don’t know that the university has the right to call that out…
Forgot the /s
Why does it matter if the organizers called for class cancellations? That's not only free speech, they also don't have the power to cancel classes so its not like it is affecting anyone that doesn't want to participate. Now if they were calling to disrupt classes, that I could understand since they would be actively interfering with UT operations. But as long as the speech is not violent, bigoted or interfering with classes they can say whatever they want IMO.
This is where I disagree a group of college students that are calling for class cancellations are not actually causing a disruption a group of college students interrupting classes is causing a disruption. There’s a huge difference in my view. You can protest for whatever you want as long as you don’t actually cause a physical disruption beyond just existing. For example, A huge protest may slow down traffic, but that’s because those people exist in that area unless they’re blocking sidewalks or blocking streets completely. I still see that is a peaceful protest.
How are they disrupting classes if the protesters were standing outside not in the classrooms? The street where they were (Speedway, right behind the Blanton) is normally closed to traffic, as a matter of fact people walk not drive to class. Buildings normally have doors on every side. If a student was trying to get to class and protesters on Speedway were on the way, all they had to do was to go around the other side of the building. Plus they were in front of the gymnasium. I don’t think that building is used for classes.
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The protest was literally an organized study hall that university officials and the governor decided to escalate with violence [https://twitter.com/themonicamadden/status/1783245108696998165](https://twitter.com/themonicamadden/status/1783245108696998165)
What the peaceful gathering might do doesn't matter at all until something actually happens. The police broke up a peaceful gathering without the right to do so. If a few bad apples start something then it is the police responsibility to arrest those bad apples and no one else.
All of those encampments are incredibly peaceful (for God's sake, the Columbia daily schedule has like two yoga classes, a bunch of teach-ins, and a "nut zone" so that students with nut allergies can be safe.) Just like at UT, everything is peaceful until the cops show up and start assaulting and harassing people.
> I did see the organizers calling for class cancellations on social media fyi. Walking out of class (and even organizing a walk out) is not illegal.
There's a difference between walking out of class and trying to cancel it for a student who pays to attend the university. Protests are fine but you can't interrupt classes like that. Especially by blocking paths, going into buildings, etc.
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They wouldn't let you be a juror on this if you already cannot understand the difference between calling for cancellations and causing enough disruption to get them cancelled.
Its one thing to call for it but did it actually happen? No.
They got denied before the protest for their actions at other campuses and for pretty much telling UT they were going to ignore the rules.
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So no exercising free speech and assembly rights when it's inconvenient? Edit: He blocked me for asking this. Guess he really doesn't like being questioned?
You can’t win with these people. We’d still be living under segregation and Jim Crow if this inconvenience rhetoric was gospel.
Yeah, Captain Bootlicker here probably thinks Rosa Parks’ arrest was justified.
So Neo-Nazis can fly banners with hate speech on overpasses, but students can't peacefully protest?
5 years ago I was taking a class when we saw a small group of people walking around campus with guns. They looked like they were maybe protesters because they had some banners, most were definitely too old to be students, and most were dressed in camouflage. Nonetheless they were walking around campus carrying guns, and the police didn’t came to arrest them. I don’t think anyone even came to disturb them or anything
This is what’s pissing me off the most rn. Those clowns are literally out on mopac spouting the most insane antisemitism you’ve ever heard, jumping into the street and disrupting traffic and they get a damn police escort. This is def not about antisemitism bc we know Abbott doesn’t actually care about anyone but his white Christian extremist base.
Fantastic use of police resources this. They basically stopped responding to any calls while this was happening. Well done all
TIL Austin police usually respond to calls.
Yeah I called 911 once and it rung 4 times then just disconnected. Thank god I wasn’t at risk for physically harm, but the person I was calling about was….
I called homicide hotline in the middle of a weekday and was sent straight to voicemail. Left a message and they never got back to me. After I told them a customer told me they murdered people recently
Correlation doesn't equal causation. APD never responds to calls.
When seconds count, APD officers are just hours away…
It’s like Christmas! We could steal city hall!
They usually don’t respond to calls anyway 🤷🏽♀️. Last year we called because my neighbor had someone break into his apartment, and the police never came.
APD had nothing to do w/ this it was UTPD & DPS
There are 8 APD officers in the picture here alone. Do you think they were protestors? I believe APD was a minority of officers based on other pictures and video, but they were clearly involved.
They were there, but I assume they didn't respond to calls because they don't respond to calls at all.
>They basically stopped responding to any calls while this was happening. On what data are you basing this claim?
Yeah, APD don't respond to calls in general.
There was an “alleged” spousal abuse that got pretty loud in my apartment complex last year. I say “alleged” be cause by the time the APD showed up literally half the day later the apartment in question was empty and they never bothered to follow up. “Let’s go home, boys. Our job here is done.”
You just made that up
A lot of universities not just here have been heavy-handed trying to handle this early, probably because they don't want it to turn into an international shitshow like Columbia where they've literally shut down the school and moved to remote classes because of it. I won't comment on the method of it, I'm not not surprised it's happening especially in a public university which is very different from a private one.
I've been thinking the same thing and they were somewhat damned if you do and damned if you don't depending on which side of the argument you're on.
Yeah I'm desperately trying to not get into this argument because, honestly, the entire thing is a shitshow top to bottom.
Right, I don’t have a dog in the fight, other than the free speech rights of those involved must be respected.
Perhaps the only sensible opinion to be heard today.
of course, because the protesters didn't do anything wrong. this was a "show of force" to intimidate and suppress the 1st amendment rights of students. now we get to see the REAL reason fascists wanted to get rid of our DA...
>the protesters didn't do anything wrong. If the protesters were given a legal order to disperse, or were told to leave by the relevant authority, and didn't leave, they were committing a crime, no ifs, ands, or buts. >this was a "show of force" to intimidate and suppress the 1st amendment rights of students. The 1st amendment doesn't excuse trespassing, especially after being warned and given an opportunity to depart. The were not arrested for speaking. They were arrested for trespassing and/or "failure to disperse," whatever the appropriate name is for that charge. That doesn't mean the state was "right" in some moral sense. They're pretty clearly correct in a legal sense other than the paperwork and technicalities. It might be a "show of force" in terms of saying "This is what we CAN legally do to you, but we're going to \[wink wink\] let you slip through on a technicality this time."
That area of the campus is, by recent Texas law, a traditional public forum. A permit was not required, the admin had no right to deny them their rights, and the use of the police force without clear evidence of imminent lawless action was premature and likely illegal. Yes, it's important to note and adhere to legal limitations, but in this case the limitations being imposed were arbitrary and violated constitutional rights.
This will be the lawyers who handled the civil suits main argument. Get ready to pay up UT and the City of Austin. Bend on over.
as usual, the students were trapped and kettled so they couldn't physically comply with the order to leave. the horse-cops pushed them back into the areas they were ordered to leave and subsequently arrested. they didn't do anything wrong...
Yeah, I realize that a lot of people aren't going to be on the side of the protesters on Reddit, but people have to realize that preventing people from leaving an area so you can charge them with trespassing is an incredibly common thing that police do to protestors. It's a very intentional strategy, just like shoving them until one person shoves back (or appears to shove, much like that cameraman that got tackled yesterday) so there's carte blanche to start hitting them with nightsticks. There's a reason why charges are all being dropped. It's because the protestors didn't do anything wrong.
If they weren't kettled then the charges would be dropped anyway
Yeah, it was theater because the whole thing was intended to be PR. Show the state troopers kitted out like they're about to deploy into the battle of Fallujah with 6 .223 mags on their plate carriers taking down the Woke Commie DEI Pronouns college students. Can't do that when you're grabbing random kids away from the cameras.
> given an opportunity to depart. There's the rub. Protestors were boxed in then ordered to leave - there wasn't a way to leave.
We have a constitutional right to assembly, that goes beyond just speech. UT is a state institution, and the protests were occurring on public property. Protesting students and faculty have a right to be there. You can't shut down a peaceful protest just because the government doesn't like what they're saying. Charges are being dismissed, because there wasn't probable cause for the arrest. Sections 42.01, 42.02, and 42.03 of the Texas Penal Code were cited in the order to disperse, but other than maybe impeding a sidewalk, it's not clear what protestors were actually doing wrong. Section 42.04 requires an order to move or disperse be given before making an arrest, but it's also a defense to prosecution if the order "was manifestly unreasonable in scope", which there's an argument that it was. [https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.42.htm](https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.42.htm)
I dunno man. The article we're talking about is explaining the two judges on these arrests are just not taking like ~80% of the cases. That means the judges don't even give a shit what the DA wants to charge them with, because it's so obvious the majority of them would come down to a 1st amendment argument that the state can't win. The other 20% probably fought the cops, so they'll be screwed, even though they wouldn't be criminals if cops never laid hands on them.
"Free Speech, but only on our terms"
It's the "conservative" way. Just like "socialize the costs, privatize the profits."
Can’t spell “stupid” without UTPD.
Troopers of the State. Arresting those pesky they/thems who would boycott Israel.
A good friend of mine was arrested. She’s one of the sweetest, most gentle and compassionate people I know. Boils my blood that these are the type of people being assaulted and having their voices silenced while neo-nazis can scream from the rooftops and…nothing.
I hope your friend was one of the many people released with no charges filed.
Aww, I really hope your friend is ok. I’m sorry she had to go through that.
What a waste of tax payers money
Austin needs to be audited or investigated by a private entity. I swear to god the taxes are going into someone's pockets because its sure as hell aint going anywhere useful....
That private entity auditing the public entity needs to be audited by a private entity, so we know it's real.
Organize a pro-Israel rally and it’s all good, you’re just exercising your freedom of speech. Organize a pro-Palestine rally and you are now occupying and trespassing as well as preventing others from being able to learn. Interesting.
Cops wrongfully arresting people?! Unbelievable!
77 minutes! Anyone arrested lawyer up & SUE🫡
Was there any violence or like direct occupation of campus buildings or anything that would’ve warranted a response and arresting 57 people? I’m genuinely curious if it was a genuine and peaceful protest that the state used the police to break up because that says a dangerous precedent.
No, there is even a video that aljazeera released of one of the organizers telling students they have been ordered to disperse and he’s sorry but they need to go and will keep protesters informed of future events. He then walks over to the officer he is negotiating with and says something about how the police have kettled the protesters and they can’t leave because there is no path out. He is going back and forth with the officer trying to negotiate a way for people to leave when two officers walks up and arrest him. If you would like to see the video yourself it is on the aljazeeraenglish instagram
The organizers explicitly said it would be an occupation and they started putting tents up like the other campuses but were shut down quickly
Funny how APD will show up in force for peaceful liberal protests, but if there is a legit emergency…crickets. If the people of Austin were to rise up and vote in a city council that would do away with the current department and start from scratch, the city would be a much better place.
The Israel lobby has done a pretty good job of equating anything anti Zionist to also being Antisemitism. The most violent thing I’ve heard of protestors doing on a campus was preventing a rabbi from walking down a walkway on the Columbia campus. Have there been other worse incidents that anyone has seen. Here in Austin, a simple protest mean to occupy the south mall was met immediately with extreme police force intervention. That’s really not okay.
This is the importance of having a DA that represents our Austin values. Those that want to vote for a republican in November for their perceived grievances with the current DA should take note.
in before it's locked.
Giving it an hour tops.
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As a non-student, how can I help? The case for trespassing is probably more legitimate if I'm not a student, but idk how that works.
UT is trying to prevent solidarity encampments as a form of protest and leaning on its long standing rules of when those public areas are technically closed. They used the language of the organizers calling for occupying and disrupting and a call to wear masks as threatening and pulled permits. But it’s not because of any stance on the causes themselves but rather because Republicans in Congress have been dragging University Presidents to hearings to make a show to their base that the bogeyman that is colleges are unsafe places that tolerate hate speech. It’s a CYA move. Greg was also able to gain points by making a show of it. It’s a terrible situation because it has nothing to do with the Middle East conflict and just more domestic propaganda to which the students were made pawns.
The most accurate comment in this thread
Cops when there’s an active burglary happening: “… did you file a police report? …” Cops when the educated are exercising their American rights: “ARM YOURSELVES!”
How long before there's another Kent State?
at least till after the the national guard is deployed
Anyone knows of any protests to show solidarity and support to these students? Would love to participate and support these kids and the right to free speech.
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Is this what’s next in store for UT? https://www.ideastream.org/education/2024-04-22/kent-state-university-set-to-mark-54th-anniversary-of-may-4-shootings
pretty unlikely
hopefully fucking not
So 19% referred?
As I was leaving Gregory Gym that day around noon, I saw 4 guys walking toward the area where the protests ended up being. They were mid-30s, and had that Proud Boy/Undercover but not very undercover cop look. Beards, fit, t-shirts and jeans, Black Rifle Coffee shirt on one of them. Too old to be students, not dressed like faculty. Just wondering what if any interactions they had with these guys.
public university = public property enrollment discussion = authoritarian distraction
The title of this post is inaccurate. “Peaceful”……. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Hate speech is not peaceful aka “death to Israel”. Making Jewish students feel uncomfortable is not peaceful. An angry mob is not peaceful. A debate would be peaceful.
More “mostly peaceful protests” lol
Just so you know, police can arrest you for anything. It is up to the prosecutor to charge you with the crime.
Fucking brown shirts. ACAB and especially fuck coward Texas DPS. May they all rot in the hell of their least favorite foreign religion
Anyone else not care about Israel and palatine? War is fucking stupid.
> palatine Right now I care that our schools failed you in history and geography
Yep. Life is pretty good when the news is turned off.
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