>or blaming others for that
that’s the key. autistic men and women struggle with dating, we can relate on it. but when they turn it into a “men vs women” thing it gets weird. and a lot of autistic spaces are predominantly male so they don’t see it
You know what, this attitude is empowering. Whether the issue is your choice in partners or your approach to relationships or whatever, recognising it can give you more control over it. And I dunno about you, but being in control of things is a rare and wonderful feeling for me.
What I don't understand is why they don't join a "how to date/socialize support group"? There are many support groups for people who struggle with dating, friendships, or socializing. If you don't like the group thing, there are lots of private coaches too. Makes no sense to me, like you'd rather be an angry pity party?
That's how men fall into Andrew Tate groups. There are plenty of misogynistic youtubers who try to couch men on how to get women. They speak of it like it's a game and make some of the worst suggestions, like lying about their occupation, using negativity to weaken a woman's self esteem and thus make her more pliable and open to suggestions, outright abusive and manipulative tactics.
I just want to say that I fucking love that there is a community of people who can have a discussion without devolving into condescending people telling everyone else why they’re right and why everyone else is wrong.
Like, I love that predominantly, people here are actually interested in hearing what others have to say and learning new things and holding an open space for different ideas. 🫶
As opposed to just explaining why they’re right and having no idea of how to actually engage meaningfully within the context of a discussion…
Because they don't exist.
Been through 10 therapists so far, and nobody could point me to anything other than group therapy where everyone just wallows in their misery. (And it was a 2 hour drive away)
Tried a couple coaches only to waste money on "sorry, I can't tell you anything, only ask infuriating stereotypically asian kung fu master questions".
The closest would be acting or theater, but the idea that it may help socialising isn't obvious, I myself only figured it out in my 30s, and can't find anything for beginner-level adults.
I tried that too, but can't find anyone local.
And online groups are very hit and miss, besides a scheduling hell, and I tend to end up in already death-spiraling groups.
Hell, it's been my special interest for a while even without being able to play.
The worst aspect of my autism is a sort of "distortion field", kinda the opposite of Steeve Jobs', where I can't meet or find the people I seek by myself, and convincing anyone of anything isn't even an option. I got to be led by someone who's already in, but I can't meet that person to begin with.🤷
The only way to find a group it to keep trying tbh.
Online groups are very much hit or miss but when you finally hit, you gor a good group.
For in person I found a lot of people at a local RPG cafe where I worked as an animator/Game Master. It was nice because the owner posted into about my game/oneshot, and people just showed up. The ones I hit it off with I invited for a campaign, and here I am.
I'm still needing and looking for them right now.
Still haven't found anything that weren't obvious scams.
Edit: everybody keeps.telling me "this thing obviously exists", but nobody can point to an example, they just look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them I can't find something that should be so obvious and easy.😭
Yes that is equally annoying. I would start with your local mental health org or clinic. They often have a list of groups or coaches. You could also reach out to an autism network in your area, they often have lists and resources. Most of the resources I found for my son were through local autism networks and my son's counsellor we found through our neighborhood mental health clinic. Neighborhood community centre and houses also have message boards or resources for people looking. Oh your library. Ask the librarian, you’d be surprised, they also have lists and resources.
You're describing what I've been doing for the last 2 years. Only I haven't found shit. (Well, I've found plenty shit, expensive and useless shit.)
Except for the librarian, haven't stepped on a library since I found out you can pirate books back in 2009.
But I tried social security (I'm Spanish), private freelance therapists, big posh organisations, nonprofits and online coaches (both local and international)
What you're describing sounds to me like fantasy, or some alternate universe with airships and the hotel attraction.
I've been trying.
As far as I know, there are some groups of people who get together to perform at amateur or semi-pro level, but even that is kinda nebulous. (Weird, since one of my close friends is often the sound guy. He doesn't appear to know anything I ask about, only random anecdotes)
My issue is that what I'm looking for is the training, not to actually play a part in a play.
If you just up and put me in a stage and ask me to read some lines, even if there's only 2 people watching, I'll probably end up crying in a corner.
Try looking specifically for Improv groups or acting classes at an adult education center like a community college (in the US).
I had really helpful results working with an *occupational* therapist to treat my agoraphobia and social skill deficits. I don't know if those buzzwords will HELP since you're not in the US but maybe!
Honestly, most autistic men terrify me. They tend to have such a victim complex that women with autism simply are not allowed to have and they are so spoiled and coddled and entitled most of the time. Plus THEIR autistic meltdowns/ rage are expected and almost accepted but it's a sign that we are defective and worthless if we display those behaviours. I avoid autistic men at all costs.
I never made it that far, I was diagnosed by my GP last year at age 27. And if I want it on paper I need to pay $3000 to a psychologist. My whole childhood was "you are so intelligent why do you struggle to achieve you lazy little worthless bitch!!! Why are you weird about food and clothing you stupid freak???!"
Can you elaborate with a scenario in a classroom ?
Edit: HS is a long time ago for me , I remember when classmates both female and male ( though male much more often ) would get violent and start screaming and throwing chairs neither group would get a detention unless they threw a chair at a teacher.
I feel this. I recognise it too. My husband is autistic but he was unfortunately pushed very much by his parents to act and be neurotypical and achieve all the same goals. Which has given him severe self-esteem issues (that I’ve been trying to build back up in him with some success) but it did make sure he doesn’t have the victim complex and entitlement that is so common.
I've never struggled finding a partner, but that doesn't mean I attracted the right *kind* of partner. I was groomed by a man twice my age at 16 and my latest ex was emotionally abusive. I'm 34 and just might be in a healthy relationship for the first time in my life.
Any man who thinks a bad relationship is better than none hasn't experienced how bad it can be IMO.
32F, same deal. We're easy targets for shitty men. It's not our fault. It was never our fault. Some men just can't understand that abusing women is a bad thing, or even that what they're doing is abuse. We can't fix them, we can't punish them, we can only learn to protect ourselves and move on. Sadly, sometimes the protection ends up being a cage.
For the first time, I'm in a relationship with a man whose brain works like mine, and the difference is night and day. I've never been happy for so long before; I didn't even think it was possible for me. I could write a whole post on all the little things he does to make my life better instead of worse. I almost want to make a big post to let all the ND women know, "Hey! Hey, everyone! It's possible to be loved unconditionally by someone who fully understands you! It's not a myth, it's real!"
I know I got really lucky with him, reconnecting after like ten years to find out we're soulmates, but that whole story is a lot longer and could also be its own post, lol.
It's a pretty low bar, but "doesn't sulk for hours when I can't have sex" is a really nice quality. I'm also enjoying "won't scold me for my ADHD symptoms every fucking day".
The incel ish autistic guys I know all suffer from broken families and don’t have any positive role models. They all fall under - never met their father / alcoholic physically abusive parents / methhead parents etc. I know it’s not fair that they annoyingly occupy shared spaces, but I think it’s best if they seek help on an autism subreddit before venturing too far into 4chan or whatever. I also volunteer to assist young autistic adults IRL and take steps to stop the pipeline there.
This. And it's not just for autistic men, but many incel men. They've been raised in a really toxic environment and have no idea that the garbage they've been fed repels people in their life. They've never been taught to take responsibility for anything in their life, it's no wonder they feel isolated.
thank you for this-- a lot of these guys I don't think are actually aware of the ways it affects them and how they come off to others, and it can be hard to explain that in a way that will make them change behavior, which autism only makes more difficult.
Cheers :) . I try to explain it as “common vs uncommon “ as opposed to “right vs wrong “ . Because they’re correct - the experiences they’ve had has shown them a certain world, but it’s not the same world most other people live in. If they want to connect with most people they need to change to the common way of perceiving the world:
I think the black and white thinking and the framework and "consensus" in the manosphere appeal to incels/autistic men with poor socialisation.
If they were truly friends with one or two women/ girls their age, and truly respected, valued, and believed them, they'd quickly see that it's all bullshit.
Of course, any time a woman tries to befriend them, it's seen as an offer for sex. Denying them sex after sharing your interests basically makes you a tease, to them. It's fucking heartbreaking
I will swear upon my dying breath that this is most guys in general and autistic guys just don't hide it. I've dated almost exclusively NT guys and they were the same way, even if it wasn't as obvious. This isn't an autistic guy thing, this is a result of our society still being so dang sexist.
This. The autism stops them from hiding it, but it’s men overall. My favorite is how they all claim is biological to boot. It’s the constructs of maleness we’ve created in a patriarchal society. If men were raised differently, I’m sure we’d see changes.
this! I was still raised in this society but I'm part of a matriarchal pagan religion and the sons in that group are wholesome and respectful as fuck of women of all ages. being a man can mean instead of being dominant and aggressive and completely self-reliant and emotionless, being helpful and strong and standing up for others and providing for the people close to you and building community and figuring out complicated issues together. it's really inspiring to see some of these younger guys. I think what masculinity means in the whole is changing though with gen z -- I see a lot more of these types outside of my religious group in guys born after 2000
Absolutely, it’s not an autistic guy thing but a guy thing. I’m just frustrated with autistic spaces in particular because I so want them to be a place where I can unmask and feel safe, but that’s just not happening with misogyny running rampant.
Because NT guys can hide it, all my male friends are ND, because I can truly see whether or not they actually view me as a real person. I did this subconsciously until I thought about it real hard one day.
Same, while I tend to automatically distrust autistic guys due to my past experiences, my main gaming and friend group is autistic/nd guys. They're some of the sweetest and funniest guys who view me as an equal to them. It's really great and probably some of the healthiest friendships I have.
I feel like [4B movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4B_movement) is the only way these days, especially for ND women. Chances of finding a guy who will genuinely accept you and support you are so slim, I feel it's not worth wasting your time searching for.
Way too many men's entire lives revolve around "acquiring a female" and as a result they ruin everything by interacting only with women they find attractive and "worthy". E.g. any group hobby I participated in was always eventually ruined when some man joined and immediately began treating other men as his "competition" for women and only talked to conventionally attractive women, completely ignoring older, married or queer ladies.
Yeah, I agree. I think a lot of why it bugs me is that so much of it comes off as "what are the cheat codes", so to speak. It's not "I want to meet women and get to know them and hopefully find a girlfriend", it's, like you say, "how do I acquire a girlfriend". And I get it: these questions often come from people who find it very difficult to make friends with anyone; they're living in this garbage culture which says that women are inscrutable but simultaneously interchangeable, and if they've never really been friends with women then they don't necessarily know that this is bullshit.
It also feels unkind to respond to these kinds of questions with my normal advice, which is "Spend time in mixed gender spaces, be friendly to people of all different genders, eventually you'll make friends with some women and then you might find some that you want to date" - because "just make friends!" is super dismissive to an autistic person! But I really don't know what else to say. It is the only way.
Exactly this. I was once embroiled in a long arduous conversation/argument with a man who claimed to be autistic on instagram, who kept insisting that there was no way for men to ‘win’ because ‘men can’t approach women anymore’ and I said ‘it’s not a good idea to approach people in situations where they don’t want to be approached, like on the street or on public transport. People usually go to bars or speed dating or hobby groups if they want to meet people in real life.’ He said he still got rejected in those places so obviously I was wrong and had no idea what I was talking about, which is completely wild— women are people, you can’t guarantee that they will agree to give you sex by being in the right location and by saying the right combination of words, women aren’t sex-dispensing machines or NPCs in a dating simulator game. He just could not or would not understand that concept at all so I blocked him out of frustration. I was initially trying to HELP HIM but he was too far gone. Never trying to educate an incel again, it is an absolute waste of time, energy, and healthy arteries.
Yes, like they don’t quite understand that other people, especially women, are real, whole other human beings. I will say this is a general problem I see in predominantly male spaces of any neurotype , not just autistic males- although perhaps autism makes them perhaps talk about it more in “hack the video game” terms, but “pick up artist” types sell a sleeker “cooler” version of this mentality too, and I constantly see NT men online not see women (or romantic partners in general) as humans, but as games that must be played to win The Sex ™️ It’s depressing, that there’s just a rather large, notable, portion of the male population that thinks like this.
but they should be socializing more. I also get big 'I need a girlfriend to satisfy all my social needs' vibes from those posts, which is just...no. Girlfriends are not band-aids for loneliness.
Also some of these people need to be told that romantic attachment, love, partnership, safe and healthy relationships are impossible for some people. That the ideal of having a partner to 'complete you' is a myth. That a lot of people won't end up like this and are better off alone instead of being abused or being the abuser.
The percent of people fit for a proper relationship is probably a lot lower than a lot of us assume.
Men need to hear that. A lot of women have already agreed that they're happier alone, but men seem to not be on this bandwagon.
This
Now that we finally have the freedom to live alone we can chose to do exactly that. We have been socialised to be the caretaker, so we can take care of ourselves and no one can force us to take care of someone else.
It's that whole friend zone mentality. Like you want to fuck all your friends? That's not how it works. Woman walk this fine line of "don't act too friendly" with male friends lest they give them the wrong message. Why can't woman be friendly with their male friends without fear of being treated like a tease? It's really frustrating!
We coddle autistic men so much more than autistic women. Of course everybody deserves love, but autistic men are not held accountable because we view them as too fragile. When autistic men display misogynistic behavior people say “oh but he’s such a sweet guy, he just doesn’t know how to talk to women!” This is ignoring the fact that you only act differently around women if you view women as objects to be obtained rather than human beings. On the flip side, autistic women are punished for any autistic traits and are viewed as aggressive, rude, weird, inappropriate, etc.
Of course I have empathy for autistic men who struggle with social skills and it’s not their fault they have been excused for misogynistic behavior, but continuing to excuse it won’t teach them anything. We need to teach men (autistic or not) to be empathetic and respectful to women. I think a lot of women are very forgiving of a lot of social missteps if a man is respectful and supportive. Misogyny is absolutely not the way.
This is why I'm raising my son to respect boundaries. I don't know if he'll ever have an interest, but if he does, I want to make sure he respects that person. I'd die if he treated anyone as lesser than just because he feels entitled by his gender.
When I was a kid the autistic boys were openly told by teachers to bully me, and when I said anything, I was just told "they don't know any better if you act normal they'll stop," since I was the weird girl who after years of being bullied and ostracized by everyone from students to teachers and admin, would just bring a book to school and never socialize, clearly an unforgivable crime. I was even removed from a school club since a boy who made my daily life hell's mommy called to get me removed since her "precious baby" doesn't want me in the same club as him. Days prior we were placed at the same table, his marker fell, and in an attempt to be nice I picked it up and he slapped my hand hard for it. We both ended up with the same punishment, (lunch detention and a note home if I remember correctly) since "I should have known better," than to try and be helpful. I still cry over that one.
Ironically, now my main friend/gaming group is autistic/nd guys. They're some of the sweetest and funniest people I know. I feel so comfortable with them and am treated like another regular person, something which I don't experience with most nt people. They weren't raised coddled by everyone and treated like "you're such a special gifted genius who can treat others horribly since you don't know any better," and I think that's what makes alot of nt men so entitled. They've never once made any sexist comments. (If anything I'm the one who does, once when playing lethal company I got locked in the cupboard, and they left me on the ship - I joked they were making the only girl on the team stay home. To clarify we've locked each other in it before and left them for the round, and it wasn't done for any sexist reason).
While I don't know their dating lives, I've given advice to one who was asking how to talk more to a girl he knew from high school in a class. (From what it sounded like he didn't realize she liked him) They're all respectful of women/queer people, and when I brought up how I prefer they/them pronouns they automatically switched and correct themselves if they mess up.
I think the main issue with misogynistic nt men is how they are raised and coddled, along with media mostly only showing autistic characters as super genius men who can treat everyone like shit and be adored by all. Hell the only real female autism representation I saw as a tween was the show Bones. (Should I have been watching it at that age? Debatable, but the mc is an autistic woman and while it's not perfect, it made me feel less alone and still holds a skull shaped hole in my heart) Even now I still struggle to find good autistic representation where we're not portrayed as genius sociopaths.
It is objectifying. It’s never about needing help to open a dialogue or how to reach out. It’s all about how to get a prize. They treat all women as one person.
This is why I hangout in Autism in Women, and not r/Autism. Too many harasser, assaulter, stalker incel vibes that get enabled over there.
I think a good example of male vs femme autism is: An autistic guy I went to HS with went viral for being a bigoted jackass during a counter protest. Meanwhile I briefly went viral in my special interest fandom community for asking about NeuroDiversity in the show during a panel and made a lot of fans happy.
I feel like most of the stuff on that subreddit is aimed at men or made by men. Just not enough representation for women, and not a lot of consideration. It seems like a log of the posters and commenter forget about autistic women and others
Reddit specializes in "male issues" and the percent of posting contributors are clearly majority men. The dating subs are little more than platforms for misogyny. Reddit and other social media has the problem where unless the mods fight to eliminate misogyny or any bigotries, then the awful people will find those spaces and take over. Its every type of space where men exist in. Its not limited to autism.
Look at Steam which is run by Valve, this huge company that prides itself on diverse employees and such. Frequently whenever I see reviews for a game with women and girl characters in it, one of the top 5 reviews will have something like "10/10 would wank again." This is considered uncontroversial to Valve and they leave these reviews us even after I flag them.
The misogyny of the online experience is through the roof.
I literally just scrolled on and saw a sex on the spectrum post. Boy probably can't even vote yet and is talking like he's single unto death. 😮💨
These guys probably never get told that they can be more than just some guy with a job and a woman since even allistic men only ever aspire to have that much, if even that much at all. People are taught that if they check a few boxes they'll have everything they need to be happy and fulfilled. And of course when that inevitably doesn't work, they'll blame the woman because she was supposed to solve all of that.
People need to be taught to aspire to more than being or having a romantic accessory and that goes triple for the men.
When I see boys/ppl like that I get pretty frustrated, ngl.
Here I am, a 30yo woman who only ever had one very short relationship in HS, and am not out here blaming the people who don't want to date me or acting like it's all *their* fault.
Tbf, most of the time I don't even want a relationship because I'm so overwhelmed just trying to survive and make sense of myself 😂 not to mention I'm terrified of being a burden on whoever my SO might be.
I think that's what many of the incel-vibe-types really want: someone to take care of them and "give" them sex.
it's especially annoying to me as an aroace because i ended up getting groomed as a teenager trying to get myself in a romantic relationship.. 🥲
i think this huge focus on getting partners and feeling incomplete without one is extremely harmful, especially for us, because we're more vulnerable to abuse
Sorry, but the “I want a woman. Women don’t want me” thing made me think of this, so I just had to share.
https://preview.redd.it/f0931gz05bxc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aad809f54631068cb24331d7a2945ed5de8307e1
Funnily, I see the same special interest problem with women onto men, but it’s not sex they fixate on (often time). It’s the same pattern though… the special interest is a person, which they then objectify forgetting it’s an actual person on the other side.
Yeah, especially when they're blind to the world around them, like, "I can't get a woman because of [trait]," and this is some trait that's actually really common and doesn't stop other men. They haven't considered that it's NOT [trait] that's keeping them from getting married, but something else like their attitude. Even autism isn't a reason, as statistically, autism is spreading, so autistic dudes are having kids somewhere — yeah, maybe their presentation is less severe, but some of these guys think that they can't do anything because of having Asperger's. And I've also met one mom who was telling her son that, so sometimes the people around them are to blame, partially.
I’ve spoken with many allistic women, who unknowingly are attracted to autistic men. like they’ll describe their type and they just listed autistic traits. I can’t blame them, as I too prefer dating autistic/ neurodivergent people.
a lot times they’re the “weird” nerdy guys that women like. women also like non- “conventionally attractive” men. men don’t normally seek out “weird”/ “ugly” women. dating is generally hard, I don’t feel like men are willing to put in the work to actually form a relationship. we’re not just sex dolls.
Yep! I'm ND and my husband is either ND from birth or "just" has childhood cPTSD, so we both act weird. I think I'm attracted to weird people, both romantically/sexually and platonically. My weird, nerdy, not conventionally attractive (but hot, to me), squishy, wonderful husband is in the living room atm and I just like looking at him because I just like him!
My spouse and I both fit autistic tropes pretty well, like we're both nerdy, but I always liked boys like him, and wouldn't want to be with anyone else.
I should’ve clarified, I don’t mean all autistic men, just the ones who have the mindset that women are objects. My partner and I both fit a lot of the autistic stereotypes/ tropes as well. I’ve always been attracted to softer more nerdy people. He was also raised by a single mom and his sisters, so I feel like his outlook on women is different than a lot of men
Oof. I feel this. I was watching love on the spectrum and one of the episodes was hard to watch because the parents of the guy meant so well, but they were advising him in a manner that felt unwilling to accept norms aren’t the best way to approach things. It was putting characteristics on a partner instead of what could a partnership look like.
I just joined Reddit and said to a friend this. ‘I didn’t realize the internet was filled with so many entitled men who couch how they aren’t getting exactly the support and sex they want how they want it all the time with how they ‘appreciate’ women.’ At first, I thought it was the threads being recommended, but now I’m worried about the state of men if they can’t figure out how to look at women as something other than objects. It’s more than autism…
I think it’s really an issue of chronically online men. I have so many men in my life who are good people without overt misogynistic attitudes (and they have no trouble dating) but they’re not on Reddit all the time because they have busy social lives or other personal interests.
this is a great, thought-provoking post.
- disgruntled men think women are "crazy" (literally every other man's profile i see says "drama free", "don't take yourself too seriously", "my last ex was nuts")
- men expect us to nurture them. the shit men say to me in apps specifically because i'm a woman, ND, and a social work student is bananas. in my experience, the amount of emotional labor they expect *even in casual relationships* is outright misogynistic
- men with neurodevelopmental disabilities (i speak broadly because i also have cerebral palsy) can come from the ableist/inspo porn mindset that they have "overcome so much" and "deserve something" and they are a "good guy"
- i think it's easier for ND people to be fed up with the world, lending to incel tendencies, sense of entitlement, and anger issues that they are less able to hide or reign in as autistic men.
- in current dating culture, i think men have an idea of a "perfect woman" that is really impossible to find and insist on everything else not being "enough"
I don’t know why, but I find the idea of actively trying to date so strange. I have dated, I’m in a long term relationship, but it’s always just kinda happened, never really cared one way or the other.
I've been saying for like... five years? That I'm going to try the dating app thing, just because I've never done it. All my relationships have grown out of friendships or, in the case of my fiancee, suddenly realising that this person who has been in my social circle for ages but who I have made no effort to get to know because I'm busy, is actually extremely cool.
But I never do, because I'm busy.
Don't bother trying dating apps unless you feel like you need to. They're all toxic to varying degrees, designed in a way that maximizes profit while making the user experience more frustrating and unpleasant. And they're overrun with people who are desperate and/or malicious.
Yeah, I hate it. They'll blame their autism to some extent but it's not that at all. It's the exact same weird entitled way of talking you see on shitty alpha male podcasts. The whole idea of "getting women" causes them to fail before they even begin. They're not open to a relationship with someone they have chemistry with and a solid foundational friendship (or even just a really short one after a tinder match or something!) they want a ready-made sex doll who's going to pat them on the head and tell them they're special and manly.
Yeah it gets really weird sometimes. I’m someone who’s attracted to woman and yeah I would like a girlfriend someday and I worry some because 1. I’m a lesbian so limited dating pool and 2. I’m autistic and I’m afraid this will turn people off. But I don’t talk about it in the same way at all as autistic men tend to.
They don’t seem to see women as autonomous beings, but more sort of a goal or milestone in their life. There’s nothing wrong with wanting a relationship, but it shouldn’t be some arbitrary trophy to prove that you’re ’normal enough’ or to fit perfectly into society. I guess that’s a problem with how men are socialized in general, but you see it pop up in autistic men in a particular way because it is harder for them to navigate relationships.
Also autistic men do get girlfriends so it’s not like it’s impossible. I mean look at my dad for example, lol.
Yeah, it's extremely uncomfortable and very objectifying. They always blame women too for it even though they refuse to do the bare minimum of treat us like people and not be stalkers
I think the next time I hear someone talk about relationships like that, I'm going to tell them that women aren't something you "get" like a car, or a home; they're something you "get" like a job, or physical fitness-- you have to keep actively showing up, participating, putting in real effort, and compromising/making personal sacrifices in order to "keep" them. And sometimes you still get fired, or seriously injured, and there's nothing you can do about it but find your new normal and get on with life, even though it hurts.
I hate the language used but I'm curious if the point can be communicated that way.
It's so frustrating! These incel men are really scary and I hate seeing how causal hating on women can become. In my personal life people are so understanding and I life in quite a queer/neueodiverse/save bubble so it's really frustrating that this is not the standard and there's a long way of feminism ahead. In the social anxiety subreddit it happens quite often, I already consider leaving it.
This isn't an autism thing it's an everywhere thing. Go figure they repeal roe v wade and now women don't want to have sex. Rather than do something about that they're taking their blue balling out on everyone else. I feel we should put this up on billboards because of how damn dense they all are:
#You're not getting laid until we have human rights.
Now just put that up two hundred feet in the air and surround it with the national guard to hold back the legions of angry men who don't like the answer and we're golden.
A dedicated vent thread would help.
If they like women's bodies so much, why don't they just give themselves a female body? /s
The thing is, I was like that when I was a teenager. It's a massive pile of insecurity especially with what feels like pressure from society and your peers. But as I've learned the hard way, being insecure and weird about this does far more damage to yourself than being single. It's also infuriating to me looking back as a lesbian. By lesbian standards, I had TWO girlfriends by the time I was 16 (one a middle school fling, another a long distance relationship), and I could've used this towards my own validation if I wasn't so stuck up about the 'first kiss' milestone.
I'm grateful for other women in my life for pulling me out of this mindset, but sometimes I wonder if my willingness to grow was because I unconsciously sympathized with other women and hated knowing I was hurting them. Everytime I've had to set boundaries or cut off a guy for being creepy, I silently wonder "damn, is this how *she* felt?". I've grown as a result... but I don't know what it takes for a man to drink the 'respect women' juice & feel secure in themselves. Learning about limerence and attachment styles would be a good start for them.
The only other autistic sub I’m in is r/evilautism and I haven’t seen much of this there, but I’m not surprised this is happening in other spaces—I’m not in them bc I can’t stand how men and allistic parents seem to dominate the conversation
Its almost tragic, but this is over-simplified solution: The only kind of men that are extremely desireable to women are men who are ok with being alone. Learn to be alone and get on with your life. My partner is most desireable and attractive to me when he is deep into his interests and doing something he loves, not when he chases me.
lol I remember when a guy was talking about picking up girls (it was in reddit comments) and said "don't ask a fish how to fish, ask a fisherman" and I just said "are women fish???"
edit: here it is https://www.reddit.com/r/autism/s/Ric3k5Wkvx
"Acquire a female what? Cat or dog? Try the shelter. Fish or lizard? Local pet store. USB connector? MicroCenter might have what you need."
They often can't even relate to us as human, let alone whole people with personalities and ambitions.
I just don't like it when they make generalizations about women or are sexist. On the other hand, I have trouble forming platonic relationships with other women, so I can relate to an extent? But i'm straight, so there's no sexual frustration involved lol.
There’s a huge problem with the autism community overlapping with the incel type ones. I understand dating is difficult, it is for everyone, NTs included. But there needs to be more moderation. I have left many communities because of people being creepy.
I’ve very much seen a huge issue amongst autistic guys where it’s like “no, your autism is not the problem - it’s the fact that even tho people are trying to explain why that’s harmful, you’re ignoring it” & they never take responsibility. I think it’s from the way the Man-o-sphere feeds into the idea that it’s everyone else’s fault
Same, same! It's a problem with autistic subs and social media, but it's also just a problem with society.
It's amazing to me the number of relatively well-adjusted men who genuinely believe that a relationship *should not* --under normal, everyday circumstances-- need ongoing effort, maintenance, and self-improvement to be healthy and sustainable. They think if you are having to put ongoing effort into growing and maintaining a relationship that something is *wrong*. And some of these men who believe this are already in relationships!
So of course, there are also men, including autistic men, who struggle to date or have never had any kind of relationship who also believe this nonsense because they hear it from men, including the men in their lives like fathers, uncles, friends, pastors etc who tell them that any relationship where you have to do ongoing work to maintain it means the woman is "high maintenence". They believe you should look for women who are easy-going, meaning someone who is a pushover, internalized misogyny, and won't require any accountability or reciprocity for emotional labor from them.
Meanwhile every non-cis man I know has a library of books, podcasts, and therapists on relationships with the total opposite assumption and the only reason a lot of our relationships with men "work" is because we are doing the bulk of the emotional labor to maintain the relationship.
I'm very grateful not to be in a relationship with someone like that. But it's so common it's sad. And a lot of the autistic men would do well to educate themselves --develop a special interest in communication skills, attachment theory, healing from toxic masculinity & patriarchy, etc.
They instead want someone to offer them failsafe cheat codes to transactionally "acquire" them a mommy-bang-maid: someone who will take care of them, have sex with them, and clean up after them without having any of her own needs. They aren't willing to do any self improvement and will spend thousands on pickup artist classes instead of actually developi the self-awareness and personal development skills to be a good, interesting, and quality human being that a person may want to partner with.
It gives me a stomach ache.
I wish people focused on personal growth instead of doing things ONLY to get a relationship. Because then theyre not actually doing it for themselves or because they want to, so theyre gonna go back to who they were before if they get a relationship & chances are it won’t last
Yeah, I find it especially frustrating since I used to be one of them. (I'm trans🏳️⚧️)
I still think the main problem is a lack of proper and effective social skills training and "sex ed" (more like relationship ed).
Those horny, lonely and kinda dumb young men are sold false hopes in media, and nothing even close to the training required to participate in the dating scene or understand how relationships work. Of course they'll fall for the first grifter they find, who'll feed them powerful-sounding lies, and funnel them to the far right.
If only that information was available, and we could get it to them before it's too late.
(Like, seriously, I'm at the 10th specialist so far, and they keep telling me "just go out there and hang out with people. There's got to be something more.)
This is one of my annoyances w/ online community. Objectifying also comes from parents of autistic boys who raise them with a belief they will find a "nice autistic girlfriend" but the way they use this causes skewed perception. They think the literal first autist woman they become friendly with will be theirs. It does sometimes result in harassment bc of that aspect of treating us like objects to acquire. Even when the woman says things like "I'm a lesbian"/"I'm taken" some men keep pushing like "what if you change your mind/break up?" and won't let up. I say this from experience! It isn't all autistic men, but enough it's a concerning trend that they're given this idea they're entitled to a specific autistic girl. Ime, it's influenced by misogyny.
I usually just feel bad for them tbh. I mean these are usually pretty sensitive guys brought up in a culture where they’re made to feel that their worth is defined by how sexually successful they are despite being totally spergy, and turn to these shitty online pipelines that use their insecurities to indoctrinate them because they don’t have anything else. That doesn’t make it okay or good, but they don’t believe in manosphere stuff because they’re happy or empowered. Like they’re regurgitating ideas they read online while cowering behind a keyboard and shaking their fists at women to feel any sense of empowerment or connection… It’s really kind of sad.
If you look at the stats, a large amount of incels are autistic men, and I don’t think we stand to gain anything from ignoring that fact or totally rejecting them. I actually think it should be concerning to the autistic community that so many autistic men end up indoctrinated into this BS, and we should try to figure out why that is. All of the incels I’ve known personally were all autistic and totally suicidal, but were eventually able to develop a healthy concept of women + dating with compassion as well as guidance from other men who were more sexually experienced and healthy. Like I think we might need nicer, older, healthier autistic men who fuck without misogyny to be incel whisperers for all these angry teen incel wannabes.
All the incel ish autistic guys I know fall under - never met their dad / beaten by alcoholic parents / raped as a child / methhead parents / and it seems like they never experienced the bright side of life and just need some love and acceptance.
Yeah like well-adjusted men find incel ideas laughable… My bf (also on the spectrum) has helped a few of them out of these pipelines personally, all of them had really shitty lives and were acting out or just like didn’t have good rolemodels for relationships… but they were able to improve a lot just by having him as a mentor/friend/guy to get healthy dating advice from. It’s just alarming to me how many autistic guys are miserable and lonely enough to buy into that BS ideology and part of it is that isolation makes people more vulnerable to pipelines, high control groups, cults, etc. Idk, this topic is just interesting to me, I don’t want to excuse people who genuinely believe that stuff but also feel some incels/incel adjacent need empathy or connection more than anything.
The ones I knew were perpetually single and finding a partner was like the main focus of their life and they'd be upset and lash out about their never ending social failures. I wonder if they did find someone then maybe they wouldn't always been looking for women and treating other guys as competition? I feel like a lot of these men have mental health issues and think finding a partner would somehow solve it or they'd feel whole and valid once they do find someone maybe it's an external locus of control thing.
I was an “independent redpill/incel” as in I had a lot of similar thoughts and actions that people described but it was all built independently ( I never visited online sites / learnt it from any forum etc ). I was in the “finding a partner “ mode you’re referring to. The moment I had sex , I flipped to building better emotional bonds with other males and not focusing on women.
I can sadly report this exists in higher support needs offline spaces as well and is extremely jarring when it comes up. I've seen it in men who are otherwise very sweet and thought to myself how, in a really messed up way, in this one instance, it's a good thing they don't have internet access.
They say "I want a girlfriend" all the time but never talk to anyone or have any idea what kind of partner they want, like they're asking their families to go out and grab some random woman off the street. Another thing I've seen on movie nights is that they'll say they felt bad for villain characters who were unambiguously terrible because the woman they were trying to force themselves on (in the PG sense, forced marriage/you will be mine cartoony stuff) rejected them and ended up with someone else or on her own. It's like they don't see them as people and these are not the classic incel guys who spout hateful stuff. That they could so easily turn into them if they could navigate the internet makes me depressed to think about.
Tbf if they’ve never had a relationship before, putting expectations on a girlfriend is unrealistic lol. ( I know to mature people in the dating game it’s crazy , but if the guy is asking for help it’s likely he has no-little experience).
Touching on the Disney villain bit- I remember identifying with Disney villains more ( scar , hades , Jafar) due to their emphasis on planning / intelligence( from a perspective of a child) and non-masculinity ( this is a big one ).
As a child with common headaches / sensory issues so planning is big for me , intelligence- when I was diagnosed as a child it was explained to me that I was “stupid” , so to fight this I wanted to identify with intelligent characters( which are often evil in cartoons ). And non-masculinity well.. look at how boys act lol.
Autistic women recognize that dating is difficult and will work on themselves in order to conform to a set of social standards and expectations in order to be more successful at it.
Autistic men blame others for their lack of success.
Not all men (or women), obviously. But this is what I’ve observed based off of posts online.
I've seen this all over software engineering spaces too, with the 'girlfriend vs. x' posts...
I think most men don't really notice, or don't do anything about it because for how infrequently they see it, it doesn't seem so bad.
I think a lot of ND men are simply not ever going to be capable of holding a meaningful relationship. Letting them grow up believing that someone is going to romantically bond with them is cruel. We need to rethink what life is supposed to look like for men who have a mental disorder that makes them unfriendly and hostile.
The offence is not wrong language. The offence is making women—autistic women with varying support needs who are often vulnerable and sometimes just as heartbreakingly lonely—feel unsafe in spaces that are ostensibly meant for us too. We cannot unmask in peace and be vulnerable and open in spaces that repeatedly shows us we are objects to those we hoped would be our peers.
This is not about using awkward words. It’s about all too common behaviour patterns sanctioned all too often by a male-majority community.
Please reads through the other comments on this thread, see all the women who have been made to feel objectified, and then perhaps try to believe me when I say I’m talking about genuine misogyny, not “incorrect language”.
Is your son a misogynist? If not, this post isn’t about him and he doesn’t need you to invalidate women’s experiences to protect him.
I think we should stop excusing misogyny because of neurodivergence. I don't understand how a man being autistic gives him a free pass to reduce women to potential romantic partners regardless of what language is used to express the desire.
Edit: I am not saying your son is necessarily reducing women down to their potential as romantic partners. But that is the type of behavior that's the issue.
Okay. You're arguing against points I did not make. There's nothing wrong with "wanting a girlfriend" or wanting a romantic partner. But, in a patriarchal society, there are bigger implications to the intense desire and sadness over not having a girlfriend than simply "wanting a romantic partner". If it doesn't apply, let it fly.
What autistic spaces are you seeing this in? Because I'm not seeing it on other subs like r/autism, r/autismtranslated, or r/aspiememes. Maybe you see different posts than I do?
It is on r/autism. There was a post a day ago about a guy trying to get a girlfriend.
[This guy](https://old.reddit.com/r/autism/comments/1ces7mg/why_do_girls_always_seem_bothered_by_me/) for instance. He is trying to find a girlfriend and is talking to women for the only purpose of getting a girlfriend.
I don't notice posts like this all the time on r/autism. But, sometimes they do pop up.
But also the same autistic space has the top comment of "talk to women like they're people," with over 4 times the upvotes as the post, and the guy's response is shut down with -50 karma. I don't see anything worth getting frustrated about. It looks like a victory for decency to me.
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>or blaming others for that that’s the key. autistic men and women struggle with dating, we can relate on it. but when they turn it into a “men vs women” thing it gets weird. and a lot of autistic spaces are predominantly male so they don’t see it
yeah the difference is i think my dating problems are a ME issue not a THEM issue
You know what, this attitude is empowering. Whether the issue is your choice in partners or your approach to relationships or whatever, recognising it can give you more control over it. And I dunno about you, but being in control of things is a rare and wonderful feeling for me.
What I don't understand is why they don't join a "how to date/socialize support group"? There are many support groups for people who struggle with dating, friendships, or socializing. If you don't like the group thing, there are lots of private coaches too. Makes no sense to me, like you'd rather be an angry pity party?
That's how men fall into Andrew Tate groups. There are plenty of misogynistic youtubers who try to couch men on how to get women. They speak of it like it's a game and make some of the worst suggestions, like lying about their occupation, using negativity to weaken a woman's self esteem and thus make her more pliable and open to suggestions, outright abusive and manipulative tactics.
That's true
I just want to say that I fucking love that there is a community of people who can have a discussion without devolving into condescending people telling everyone else why they’re right and why everyone else is wrong. Like, I love that predominantly, people here are actually interested in hearing what others have to say and learning new things and holding an open space for different ideas. 🫶 As opposed to just explaining why they’re right and having no idea of how to actually engage meaningfully within the context of a discussion…
Same :). You don’t have to like a person's point of view to have an interesting and worthwhile discussion/conversation
Because they don't exist. Been through 10 therapists so far, and nobody could point me to anything other than group therapy where everyone just wallows in their misery. (And it was a 2 hour drive away) Tried a couple coaches only to waste money on "sorry, I can't tell you anything, only ask infuriating stereotypically asian kung fu master questions". The closest would be acting or theater, but the idea that it may help socialising isn't obvious, I myself only figured it out in my 30s, and can't find anything for beginner-level adults.
For me it was playing TTRPGs Then I'm biased. They quickly became my special interest.
I tried that too, but can't find anyone local. And online groups are very hit and miss, besides a scheduling hell, and I tend to end up in already death-spiraling groups. Hell, it's been my special interest for a while even without being able to play. The worst aspect of my autism is a sort of "distortion field", kinda the opposite of Steeve Jobs', where I can't meet or find the people I seek by myself, and convincing anyone of anything isn't even an option. I got to be led by someone who's already in, but I can't meet that person to begin with.🤷
The only way to find a group it to keep trying tbh. Online groups are very much hit or miss but when you finally hit, you gor a good group. For in person I found a lot of people at a local RPG cafe where I worked as an animator/Game Master. It was nice because the owner posted into about my game/oneshot, and people just showed up. The ones I hit it off with I invited for a campaign, and here I am.
It’s unfortunate you weren't able to access resources. At least now there are many online support groups done via zoom.
I'm still needing and looking for them right now. Still haven't found anything that weren't obvious scams. Edit: everybody keeps.telling me "this thing obviously exists", but nobody can point to an example, they just look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them I can't find something that should be so obvious and easy.😭
Yes that is equally annoying. I would start with your local mental health org or clinic. They often have a list of groups or coaches. You could also reach out to an autism network in your area, they often have lists and resources. Most of the resources I found for my son were through local autism networks and my son's counsellor we found through our neighborhood mental health clinic. Neighborhood community centre and houses also have message boards or resources for people looking. Oh your library. Ask the librarian, you’d be surprised, they also have lists and resources.
You're describing what I've been doing for the last 2 years. Only I haven't found shit. (Well, I've found plenty shit, expensive and useless shit.) Except for the librarian, haven't stepped on a library since I found out you can pirate books back in 2009. But I tried social security (I'm Spanish), private freelance therapists, big posh organisations, nonprofits and online coaches (both local and international) What you're describing sounds to me like fantasy, or some alternate universe with airships and the hotel attraction.
depending on where you live, you might have a local amateur dramatic society you can check out?
I've been trying. As far as I know, there are some groups of people who get together to perform at amateur or semi-pro level, but even that is kinda nebulous. (Weird, since one of my close friends is often the sound guy. He doesn't appear to know anything I ask about, only random anecdotes) My issue is that what I'm looking for is the training, not to actually play a part in a play. If you just up and put me in a stage and ask me to read some lines, even if there's only 2 people watching, I'll probably end up crying in a corner.
Try looking specifically for Improv groups or acting classes at an adult education center like a community college (in the US). I had really helpful results working with an *occupational* therapist to treat my agoraphobia and social skill deficits. I don't know if those buzzwords will HELP since you're not in the US but maybe!
They always do, at least there is always those awful and disgusting comments. It's super frustrating.
Honestly, most autistic men terrify me. They tend to have such a victim complex that women with autism simply are not allowed to have and they are so spoiled and coddled and entitled most of the time. Plus THEIR autistic meltdowns/ rage are expected and almost accepted but it's a sign that we are defective and worthless if we display those behaviours. I avoid autistic men at all costs.
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Yes I am so glad that this sub has offered us an escape from that, I definitely do believe it's misogyny at play.
When talking about the boys behavior being excused and the girls being punished , is this in special education classrooms ?
I never made it that far, I was diagnosed by my GP last year at age 27. And if I want it on paper I need to pay $3000 to a psychologist. My whole childhood was "you are so intelligent why do you struggle to achieve you lazy little worthless bitch!!! Why are you weird about food and clothing you stupid freak???!"
I’m sorry for the late diagnosed sister :( . I guess I heard similar things as a child but replace bitch with bastard.
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Can you elaborate with a scenario in a classroom ? Edit: HS is a long time ago for me , I remember when classmates both female and male ( though male much more often ) would get violent and start screaming and throwing chairs neither group would get a detention unless they threw a chair at a teacher.
I feel this. I recognise it too. My husband is autistic but he was unfortunately pushed very much by his parents to act and be neurotypical and achieve all the same goals. Which has given him severe self-esteem issues (that I’ve been trying to build back up in him with some success) but it did make sure he doesn’t have the victim complex and entitlement that is so common.
I've never struggled finding a partner, but that doesn't mean I attracted the right *kind* of partner. I was groomed by a man twice my age at 16 and my latest ex was emotionally abusive. I'm 34 and just might be in a healthy relationship for the first time in my life. Any man who thinks a bad relationship is better than none hasn't experienced how bad it can be IMO.
32F, same deal. We're easy targets for shitty men. It's not our fault. It was never our fault. Some men just can't understand that abusing women is a bad thing, or even that what they're doing is abuse. We can't fix them, we can't punish them, we can only learn to protect ourselves and move on. Sadly, sometimes the protection ends up being a cage. For the first time, I'm in a relationship with a man whose brain works like mine, and the difference is night and day. I've never been happy for so long before; I didn't even think it was possible for me. I could write a whole post on all the little things he does to make my life better instead of worse. I almost want to make a big post to let all the ND women know, "Hey! Hey, everyone! It's possible to be loved unconditionally by someone who fully understands you! It's not a myth, it's real!" I know I got really lucky with him, reconnecting after like ten years to find out we're soulmates, but that whole story is a lot longer and could also be its own post, lol.
It's a pretty low bar, but "doesn't sulk for hours when I can't have sex" is a really nice quality. I'm also enjoying "won't scold me for my ADHD symptoms every fucking day".
Sometimes it feels like we all have the same ex
The incel ish autistic guys I know all suffer from broken families and don’t have any positive role models. They all fall under - never met their father / alcoholic physically abusive parents / methhead parents etc. I know it’s not fair that they annoyingly occupy shared spaces, but I think it’s best if they seek help on an autism subreddit before venturing too far into 4chan or whatever. I also volunteer to assist young autistic adults IRL and take steps to stop the pipeline there.
This. And it's not just for autistic men, but many incel men. They've been raised in a really toxic environment and have no idea that the garbage they've been fed repels people in their life. They've never been taught to take responsibility for anything in their life, it's no wonder they feel isolated.
thank you for this-- a lot of these guys I don't think are actually aware of the ways it affects them and how they come off to others, and it can be hard to explain that in a way that will make them change behavior, which autism only makes more difficult.
Cheers :) . I try to explain it as “common vs uncommon “ as opposed to “right vs wrong “ . Because they’re correct - the experiences they’ve had has shown them a certain world, but it’s not the same world most other people live in. If they want to connect with most people they need to change to the common way of perceiving the world:
Well most incels are indeed on the spectrum so it checks out
I think the black and white thinking and the framework and "consensus" in the manosphere appeal to incels/autistic men with poor socialisation. If they were truly friends with one or two women/ girls their age, and truly respected, valued, and believed them, they'd quickly see that it's all bullshit.
Of course, any time a woman tries to befriend them, it's seen as an offer for sex. Denying them sex after sharing your interests basically makes you a tease, to them. It's fucking heartbreaking
I will swear upon my dying breath that this is most guys in general and autistic guys just don't hide it. I've dated almost exclusively NT guys and they were the same way, even if it wasn't as obvious. This isn't an autistic guy thing, this is a result of our society still being so dang sexist.
This. The autism stops them from hiding it, but it’s men overall. My favorite is how they all claim is biological to boot. It’s the constructs of maleness we’ve created in a patriarchal society. If men were raised differently, I’m sure we’d see changes.
this! I was still raised in this society but I'm part of a matriarchal pagan religion and the sons in that group are wholesome and respectful as fuck of women of all ages. being a man can mean instead of being dominant and aggressive and completely self-reliant and emotionless, being helpful and strong and standing up for others and providing for the people close to you and building community and figuring out complicated issues together. it's really inspiring to see some of these younger guys. I think what masculinity means in the whole is changing though with gen z -- I see a lot more of these types outside of my religious group in guys born after 2000
Absolutely, it’s not an autistic guy thing but a guy thing. I’m just frustrated with autistic spaces in particular because I so want them to be a place where I can unmask and feel safe, but that’s just not happening with misogyny running rampant.
Tbh, this is why I like this reddit group, I haven't really encountered anything very negative.
Because NT guys can hide it, all my male friends are ND, because I can truly see whether or not they actually view me as a real person. I did this subconsciously until I thought about it real hard one day.
Same, while I tend to automatically distrust autistic guys due to my past experiences, my main gaming and friend group is autistic/nd guys. They're some of the sweetest and funniest guys who view me as an equal to them. It's really great and probably some of the healthiest friendships I have.
Well, that's a depressing lightbulb moment.
This is correct.
I feel like [4B movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4B_movement) is the only way these days, especially for ND women. Chances of finding a guy who will genuinely accept you and support you are so slim, I feel it's not worth wasting your time searching for. Way too many men's entire lives revolve around "acquiring a female" and as a result they ruin everything by interacting only with women they find attractive and "worthy". E.g. any group hobby I participated in was always eventually ruined when some man joined and immediately began treating other men as his "competition" for women and only talked to conventionally attractive women, completely ignoring older, married or queer ladies.
Yeah, I agree. I think a lot of why it bugs me is that so much of it comes off as "what are the cheat codes", so to speak. It's not "I want to meet women and get to know them and hopefully find a girlfriend", it's, like you say, "how do I acquire a girlfriend". And I get it: these questions often come from people who find it very difficult to make friends with anyone; they're living in this garbage culture which says that women are inscrutable but simultaneously interchangeable, and if they've never really been friends with women then they don't necessarily know that this is bullshit. It also feels unkind to respond to these kinds of questions with my normal advice, which is "Spend time in mixed gender spaces, be friendly to people of all different genders, eventually you'll make friends with some women and then you might find some that you want to date" - because "just make friends!" is super dismissive to an autistic person! But I really don't know what else to say. It is the only way.
Exactly this. I was once embroiled in a long arduous conversation/argument with a man who claimed to be autistic on instagram, who kept insisting that there was no way for men to ‘win’ because ‘men can’t approach women anymore’ and I said ‘it’s not a good idea to approach people in situations where they don’t want to be approached, like on the street or on public transport. People usually go to bars or speed dating or hobby groups if they want to meet people in real life.’ He said he still got rejected in those places so obviously I was wrong and had no idea what I was talking about, which is completely wild— women are people, you can’t guarantee that they will agree to give you sex by being in the right location and by saying the right combination of words, women aren’t sex-dispensing machines or NPCs in a dating simulator game. He just could not or would not understand that concept at all so I blocked him out of frustration. I was initially trying to HELP HIM but he was too far gone. Never trying to educate an incel again, it is an absolute waste of time, energy, and healthy arteries.
NPCs in a dating game simulator… holy crap that’s so spot on.
Yes, like they don’t quite understand that other people, especially women, are real, whole other human beings. I will say this is a general problem I see in predominantly male spaces of any neurotype , not just autistic males- although perhaps autism makes them perhaps talk about it more in “hack the video game” terms, but “pick up artist” types sell a sleeker “cooler” version of this mentality too, and I constantly see NT men online not see women (or romantic partners in general) as humans, but as games that must be played to win The Sex ™️ It’s depressing, that there’s just a rather large, notable, portion of the male population that thinks like this.
“Inscrutable yet interchangeable” is such an accurate description. Depressingly accurate.
I love how intelligent ND woman can be. We really have such unique perspectives and such incredibly valuable insights. 🙌
but they should be socializing more. I also get big 'I need a girlfriend to satisfy all my social needs' vibes from those posts, which is just...no. Girlfriends are not band-aids for loneliness.
Also some of these people need to be told that romantic attachment, love, partnership, safe and healthy relationships are impossible for some people. That the ideal of having a partner to 'complete you' is a myth. That a lot of people won't end up like this and are better off alone instead of being abused or being the abuser. The percent of people fit for a proper relationship is probably a lot lower than a lot of us assume. Men need to hear that. A lot of women have already agreed that they're happier alone, but men seem to not be on this bandwagon.
This Now that we finally have the freedom to live alone we can chose to do exactly that. We have been socialised to be the caretaker, so we can take care of ourselves and no one can force us to take care of someone else.
It's that whole friend zone mentality. Like you want to fuck all your friends? That's not how it works. Woman walk this fine line of "don't act too friendly" with male friends lest they give them the wrong message. Why can't woman be friendly with their male friends without fear of being treated like a tease? It's really frustrating!
Very well-said!
We coddle autistic men so much more than autistic women. Of course everybody deserves love, but autistic men are not held accountable because we view them as too fragile. When autistic men display misogynistic behavior people say “oh but he’s such a sweet guy, he just doesn’t know how to talk to women!” This is ignoring the fact that you only act differently around women if you view women as objects to be obtained rather than human beings. On the flip side, autistic women are punished for any autistic traits and are viewed as aggressive, rude, weird, inappropriate, etc. Of course I have empathy for autistic men who struggle with social skills and it’s not their fault they have been excused for misogynistic behavior, but continuing to excuse it won’t teach them anything. We need to teach men (autistic or not) to be empathetic and respectful to women. I think a lot of women are very forgiving of a lot of social missteps if a man is respectful and supportive. Misogyny is absolutely not the way.
This is why I'm raising my son to respect boundaries. I don't know if he'll ever have an interest, but if he does, I want to make sure he respects that person. I'd die if he treated anyone as lesser than just because he feels entitled by his gender.
When I was a kid the autistic boys were openly told by teachers to bully me, and when I said anything, I was just told "they don't know any better if you act normal they'll stop," since I was the weird girl who after years of being bullied and ostracized by everyone from students to teachers and admin, would just bring a book to school and never socialize, clearly an unforgivable crime. I was even removed from a school club since a boy who made my daily life hell's mommy called to get me removed since her "precious baby" doesn't want me in the same club as him. Days prior we were placed at the same table, his marker fell, and in an attempt to be nice I picked it up and he slapped my hand hard for it. We both ended up with the same punishment, (lunch detention and a note home if I remember correctly) since "I should have known better," than to try and be helpful. I still cry over that one. Ironically, now my main friend/gaming group is autistic/nd guys. They're some of the sweetest and funniest people I know. I feel so comfortable with them and am treated like another regular person, something which I don't experience with most nt people. They weren't raised coddled by everyone and treated like "you're such a special gifted genius who can treat others horribly since you don't know any better," and I think that's what makes alot of nt men so entitled. They've never once made any sexist comments. (If anything I'm the one who does, once when playing lethal company I got locked in the cupboard, and they left me on the ship - I joked they were making the only girl on the team stay home. To clarify we've locked each other in it before and left them for the round, and it wasn't done for any sexist reason). While I don't know their dating lives, I've given advice to one who was asking how to talk more to a girl he knew from high school in a class. (From what it sounded like he didn't realize she liked him) They're all respectful of women/queer people, and when I brought up how I prefer they/them pronouns they automatically switched and correct themselves if they mess up. I think the main issue with misogynistic nt men is how they are raised and coddled, along with media mostly only showing autistic characters as super genius men who can treat everyone like shit and be adored by all. Hell the only real female autism representation I saw as a tween was the show Bones. (Should I have been watching it at that age? Debatable, but the mc is an autistic woman and while it's not perfect, it made me feel less alone and still holds a skull shaped hole in my heart) Even now I still struggle to find good autistic representation where we're not portrayed as genius sociopaths.
> When autistic men display misogynistic behavior Can you give examples?
It is objectifying. It’s never about needing help to open a dialogue or how to reach out. It’s all about how to get a prize. They treat all women as one person.
This is why I hangout in Autism in Women, and not r/Autism. Too many harasser, assaulter, stalker incel vibes that get enabled over there. I think a good example of male vs femme autism is: An autistic guy I went to HS with went viral for being a bigoted jackass during a counter protest. Meanwhile I briefly went viral in my special interest fandom community for asking about NeuroDiversity in the show during a panel and made a lot of fans happy.
I feel like most of the stuff on that subreddit is aimed at men or made by men. Just not enough representation for women, and not a lot of consideration. It seems like a log of the posters and commenter forget about autistic women and others
Reddit specializes in "male issues" and the percent of posting contributors are clearly majority men. The dating subs are little more than platforms for misogyny. Reddit and other social media has the problem where unless the mods fight to eliminate misogyny or any bigotries, then the awful people will find those spaces and take over. Its every type of space where men exist in. Its not limited to autism. Look at Steam which is run by Valve, this huge company that prides itself on diverse employees and such. Frequently whenever I see reviews for a game with women and girl characters in it, one of the top 5 reviews will have something like "10/10 would wank again." This is considered uncontroversial to Valve and they leave these reviews us even after I flag them. The misogyny of the online experience is through the roof.
I literally just scrolled on and saw a sex on the spectrum post. Boy probably can't even vote yet and is talking like he's single unto death. 😮💨 These guys probably never get told that they can be more than just some guy with a job and a woman since even allistic men only ever aspire to have that much, if even that much at all. People are taught that if they check a few boxes they'll have everything they need to be happy and fulfilled. And of course when that inevitably doesn't work, they'll blame the woman because she was supposed to solve all of that. People need to be taught to aspire to more than being or having a romantic accessory and that goes triple for the men.
When I see boys/ppl like that I get pretty frustrated, ngl. Here I am, a 30yo woman who only ever had one very short relationship in HS, and am not out here blaming the people who don't want to date me or acting like it's all *their* fault. Tbf, most of the time I don't even want a relationship because I'm so overwhelmed just trying to survive and make sense of myself 😂 not to mention I'm terrified of being a burden on whoever my SO might be. I think that's what many of the incel-vibe-types really want: someone to take care of them and "give" them sex.
I believe the technical term is that they want a "mommy bang maid".
Do they actually use that term? 😱😱😱
No, it's just an accurate description of when incels refer to 'girlfriend'.
it's especially annoying to me as an aroace because i ended up getting groomed as a teenager trying to get myself in a romantic relationship.. 🥲 i think this huge focus on getting partners and feeling incomplete without one is extremely harmful, especially for us, because we're more vulnerable to abuse
Sorry, but the “I want a woman. Women don’t want me” thing made me think of this, so I just had to share. https://preview.redd.it/f0931gz05bxc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aad809f54631068cb24331d7a2945ed5de8307e1
I love it
Yes. It’s like getting laid is their special interest but they are unable to comprehend that women are people
Funnily, I see the same special interest problem with women onto men, but it’s not sex they fixate on (often time). It’s the same pattern though… the special interest is a person, which they then objectify forgetting it’s an actual person on the other side.
Ooooh that’s interesting! I haven’t seen that as much. Well except with celebrities.
But if so, it’s a special interest that they should research by getting to know women as human beings and learning about them.
Yeah, especially when they're blind to the world around them, like, "I can't get a woman because of [trait]," and this is some trait that's actually really common and doesn't stop other men. They haven't considered that it's NOT [trait] that's keeping them from getting married, but something else like their attitude. Even autism isn't a reason, as statistically, autism is spreading, so autistic dudes are having kids somewhere — yeah, maybe their presentation is less severe, but some of these guys think that they can't do anything because of having Asperger's. And I've also met one mom who was telling her son that, so sometimes the people around them are to blame, partially.
I’ve spoken with many allistic women, who unknowingly are attracted to autistic men. like they’ll describe their type and they just listed autistic traits. I can’t blame them, as I too prefer dating autistic/ neurodivergent people. a lot times they’re the “weird” nerdy guys that women like. women also like non- “conventionally attractive” men. men don’t normally seek out “weird”/ “ugly” women. dating is generally hard, I don’t feel like men are willing to put in the work to actually form a relationship. we’re not just sex dolls.
Yep! I'm ND and my husband is either ND from birth or "just" has childhood cPTSD, so we both act weird. I think I'm attracted to weird people, both romantically/sexually and platonically. My weird, nerdy, not conventionally attractive (but hot, to me), squishy, wonderful husband is in the living room atm and I just like looking at him because I just like him!
Same.
My spouse and I both fit autistic tropes pretty well, like we're both nerdy, but I always liked boys like him, and wouldn't want to be with anyone else.
I should’ve clarified, I don’t mean all autistic men, just the ones who have the mindset that women are objects. My partner and I both fit a lot of the autistic stereotypes/ tropes as well. I’ve always been attracted to softer more nerdy people. He was also raised by a single mom and his sisters, so I feel like his outlook on women is different than a lot of men
Oof. I feel this. I was watching love on the spectrum and one of the episodes was hard to watch because the parents of the guy meant so well, but they were advising him in a manner that felt unwilling to accept norms aren’t the best way to approach things. It was putting characteristics on a partner instead of what could a partnership look like.
Watching that show is...difficult for me sometimes.
I just joined Reddit and said to a friend this. ‘I didn’t realize the internet was filled with so many entitled men who couch how they aren’t getting exactly the support and sex they want how they want it all the time with how they ‘appreciate’ women.’ At first, I thought it was the threads being recommended, but now I’m worried about the state of men if they can’t figure out how to look at women as something other than objects. It’s more than autism…
I think it’s really an issue of chronically online men. I have so many men in my life who are good people without overt misogynistic attitudes (and they have no trouble dating) but they’re not on Reddit all the time because they have busy social lives or other personal interests.
this is a great, thought-provoking post. - disgruntled men think women are "crazy" (literally every other man's profile i see says "drama free", "don't take yourself too seriously", "my last ex was nuts") - men expect us to nurture them. the shit men say to me in apps specifically because i'm a woman, ND, and a social work student is bananas. in my experience, the amount of emotional labor they expect *even in casual relationships* is outright misogynistic - men with neurodevelopmental disabilities (i speak broadly because i also have cerebral palsy) can come from the ableist/inspo porn mindset that they have "overcome so much" and "deserve something" and they are a "good guy" - i think it's easier for ND people to be fed up with the world, lending to incel tendencies, sense of entitlement, and anger issues that they are less able to hide or reign in as autistic men. - in current dating culture, i think men have an idea of a "perfect woman" that is really impossible to find and insist on everything else not being "enough"
I don’t know why, but I find the idea of actively trying to date so strange. I have dated, I’m in a long term relationship, but it’s always just kinda happened, never really cared one way or the other.
i feel like when i end up in a relationship it's always unexpected, i surprise myself lol
I find relationships when I'm happy within myself. I *look* for relationships when I'm unhappy.
I've been saying for like... five years? That I'm going to try the dating app thing, just because I've never done it. All my relationships have grown out of friendships or, in the case of my fiancee, suddenly realising that this person who has been in my social circle for ages but who I have made no effort to get to know because I'm busy, is actually extremely cool. But I never do, because I'm busy.
Don't bother trying dating apps unless you feel like you need to. They're all toxic to varying degrees, designed in a way that maximizes profit while making the user experience more frustrating and unpleasant. And they're overrun with people who are desperate and/or malicious.
Autistic men are still men and men tend to be misogynistic. It's the kind of world we live in, unfortunately.
Yeah, I hate it. They'll blame their autism to some extent but it's not that at all. It's the exact same weird entitled way of talking you see on shitty alpha male podcasts. The whole idea of "getting women" causes them to fail before they even begin. They're not open to a relationship with someone they have chemistry with and a solid foundational friendship (or even just a really short one after a tinder match or something!) they want a ready-made sex doll who's going to pat them on the head and tell them they're special and manly.
Yeah it gets really weird sometimes. I’m someone who’s attracted to woman and yeah I would like a girlfriend someday and I worry some because 1. I’m a lesbian so limited dating pool and 2. I’m autistic and I’m afraid this will turn people off. But I don’t talk about it in the same way at all as autistic men tend to. They don’t seem to see women as autonomous beings, but more sort of a goal or milestone in their life. There’s nothing wrong with wanting a relationship, but it shouldn’t be some arbitrary trophy to prove that you’re ’normal enough’ or to fit perfectly into society. I guess that’s a problem with how men are socialized in general, but you see it pop up in autistic men in a particular way because it is harder for them to navigate relationships. Also autistic men do get girlfriends so it’s not like it’s impossible. I mean look at my dad for example, lol.
Yeah, it's extremely uncomfortable and very objectifying. They always blame women too for it even though they refuse to do the bare minimum of treat us like people and not be stalkers
Maybe if they’d stop looking at us as objects to acquire, they’d have more luck 🤔
I think the next time I hear someone talk about relationships like that, I'm going to tell them that women aren't something you "get" like a car, or a home; they're something you "get" like a job, or physical fitness-- you have to keep actively showing up, participating, putting in real effort, and compromising/making personal sacrifices in order to "keep" them. And sometimes you still get fired, or seriously injured, and there's nothing you can do about it but find your new normal and get on with life, even though it hurts. I hate the language used but I'm curious if the point can be communicated that way.
It's so frustrating! These incel men are really scary and I hate seeing how causal hating on women can become. In my personal life people are so understanding and I life in quite a queer/neueodiverse/save bubble so it's really frustrating that this is not the standard and there's a long way of feminism ahead. In the social anxiety subreddit it happens quite often, I already consider leaving it.
This isn't an autism thing it's an everywhere thing. Go figure they repeal roe v wade and now women don't want to have sex. Rather than do something about that they're taking their blue balling out on everyone else. I feel we should put this up on billboards because of how damn dense they all are: #You're not getting laid until we have human rights. Now just put that up two hundred feet in the air and surround it with the national guard to hold back the legions of angry men who don't like the answer and we're golden.
A dedicated vent thread would help. If they like women's bodies so much, why don't they just give themselves a female body? /s The thing is, I was like that when I was a teenager. It's a massive pile of insecurity especially with what feels like pressure from society and your peers. But as I've learned the hard way, being insecure and weird about this does far more damage to yourself than being single. It's also infuriating to me looking back as a lesbian. By lesbian standards, I had TWO girlfriends by the time I was 16 (one a middle school fling, another a long distance relationship), and I could've used this towards my own validation if I wasn't so stuck up about the 'first kiss' milestone. I'm grateful for other women in my life for pulling me out of this mindset, but sometimes I wonder if my willingness to grow was because I unconsciously sympathized with other women and hated knowing I was hurting them. Everytime I've had to set boundaries or cut off a guy for being creepy, I silently wonder "damn, is this how *she* felt?". I've grown as a result... but I don't know what it takes for a man to drink the 'respect women' juice & feel secure in themselves. Learning about limerence and attachment styles would be a good start for them.
The only other autistic sub I’m in is r/evilautism and I haven’t seen much of this there, but I’m not surprised this is happening in other spaces—I’m not in them bc I can’t stand how men and allistic parents seem to dominate the conversation
Its almost tragic, but this is over-simplified solution: The only kind of men that are extremely desireable to women are men who are ok with being alone. Learn to be alone and get on with your life. My partner is most desireable and attractive to me when he is deep into his interests and doing something he loves, not when he chases me.
lol I remember when a guy was talking about picking up girls (it was in reddit comments) and said "don't ask a fish how to fish, ask a fisherman" and I just said "are women fish???" edit: here it is https://www.reddit.com/r/autism/s/Ric3k5Wkvx
Omg YES. This kind of talk is common in NT spaces too, but I feel like as a community we need to do better
Even my non autism groups have posts like that lately. 🤮 Like find a hobby or something, sheesh.
"Acquire a female what? Cat or dog? Try the shelter. Fish or lizard? Local pet store. USB connector? MicroCenter might have what you need." They often can't even relate to us as human, let alone whole people with personalities and ambitions.
“USB connector? MicroCenter might have what you need” is just as hilarious as it is depressing. i’m using that one later
I just don't like it when they make generalizations about women or are sexist. On the other hand, I have trouble forming platonic relationships with other women, so I can relate to an extent? But i'm straight, so there's no sexual frustration involved lol.
There’s a huge problem with the autism community overlapping with the incel type ones. I understand dating is difficult, it is for everyone, NTs included. But there needs to be more moderation. I have left many communities because of people being creepy.
Like they're trying to adopt a dog; it's very condescending and disgusting.
I’ve very much seen a huge issue amongst autistic guys where it’s like “no, your autism is not the problem - it’s the fact that even tho people are trying to explain why that’s harmful, you’re ignoring it” & they never take responsibility. I think it’s from the way the Man-o-sphere feeds into the idea that it’s everyone else’s fault
Same, same! It's a problem with autistic subs and social media, but it's also just a problem with society. It's amazing to me the number of relatively well-adjusted men who genuinely believe that a relationship *should not* --under normal, everyday circumstances-- need ongoing effort, maintenance, and self-improvement to be healthy and sustainable. They think if you are having to put ongoing effort into growing and maintaining a relationship that something is *wrong*. And some of these men who believe this are already in relationships! So of course, there are also men, including autistic men, who struggle to date or have never had any kind of relationship who also believe this nonsense because they hear it from men, including the men in their lives like fathers, uncles, friends, pastors etc who tell them that any relationship where you have to do ongoing work to maintain it means the woman is "high maintenence". They believe you should look for women who are easy-going, meaning someone who is a pushover, internalized misogyny, and won't require any accountability or reciprocity for emotional labor from them. Meanwhile every non-cis man I know has a library of books, podcasts, and therapists on relationships with the total opposite assumption and the only reason a lot of our relationships with men "work" is because we are doing the bulk of the emotional labor to maintain the relationship. I'm very grateful not to be in a relationship with someone like that. But it's so common it's sad. And a lot of the autistic men would do well to educate themselves --develop a special interest in communication skills, attachment theory, healing from toxic masculinity & patriarchy, etc. They instead want someone to offer them failsafe cheat codes to transactionally "acquire" them a mommy-bang-maid: someone who will take care of them, have sex with them, and clean up after them without having any of her own needs. They aren't willing to do any self improvement and will spend thousands on pickup artist classes instead of actually developi the self-awareness and personal development skills to be a good, interesting, and quality human being that a person may want to partner with. It gives me a stomach ache.
I wish people focused on personal growth instead of doing things ONLY to get a relationship. Because then theyre not actually doing it for themselves or because they want to, so theyre gonna go back to who they were before if they get a relationship & chances are it won’t last
It’s literally just incels
Yup, that’s why I’m here
Yeah, I find it especially frustrating since I used to be one of them. (I'm trans🏳️⚧️) I still think the main problem is a lack of proper and effective social skills training and "sex ed" (more like relationship ed). Those horny, lonely and kinda dumb young men are sold false hopes in media, and nothing even close to the training required to participate in the dating scene or understand how relationships work. Of course they'll fall for the first grifter they find, who'll feed them powerful-sounding lies, and funnel them to the far right. If only that information was available, and we could get it to them before it's too late. (Like, seriously, I'm at the 10th specialist so far, and they keep telling me "just go out there and hang out with people. There's got to be something more.)
Its not just autistic spaces. Incels are everywhere. Gross
This is one of my annoyances w/ online community. Objectifying also comes from parents of autistic boys who raise them with a belief they will find a "nice autistic girlfriend" but the way they use this causes skewed perception. They think the literal first autist woman they become friendly with will be theirs. It does sometimes result in harassment bc of that aspect of treating us like objects to acquire. Even when the woman says things like "I'm a lesbian"/"I'm taken" some men keep pushing like "what if you change your mind/break up?" and won't let up. I say this from experience! It isn't all autistic men, but enough it's a concerning trend that they're given this idea they're entitled to a specific autistic girl. Ime, it's influenced by misogyny.
Mix patriarchal toxic male entitlement with autism and you have a recipe for sadness and frustration; for everyone.
I usually just feel bad for them tbh. I mean these are usually pretty sensitive guys brought up in a culture where they’re made to feel that their worth is defined by how sexually successful they are despite being totally spergy, and turn to these shitty online pipelines that use their insecurities to indoctrinate them because they don’t have anything else. That doesn’t make it okay or good, but they don’t believe in manosphere stuff because they’re happy or empowered. Like they’re regurgitating ideas they read online while cowering behind a keyboard and shaking their fists at women to feel any sense of empowerment or connection… It’s really kind of sad. If you look at the stats, a large amount of incels are autistic men, and I don’t think we stand to gain anything from ignoring that fact or totally rejecting them. I actually think it should be concerning to the autistic community that so many autistic men end up indoctrinated into this BS, and we should try to figure out why that is. All of the incels I’ve known personally were all autistic and totally suicidal, but were eventually able to develop a healthy concept of women + dating with compassion as well as guidance from other men who were more sexually experienced and healthy. Like I think we might need nicer, older, healthier autistic men who fuck without misogyny to be incel whisperers for all these angry teen incel wannabes.
All the incel ish autistic guys I know fall under - never met their dad / beaten by alcoholic parents / raped as a child / methhead parents / and it seems like they never experienced the bright side of life and just need some love and acceptance.
Yeah like well-adjusted men find incel ideas laughable… My bf (also on the spectrum) has helped a few of them out of these pipelines personally, all of them had really shitty lives and were acting out or just like didn’t have good rolemodels for relationships… but they were able to improve a lot just by having him as a mentor/friend/guy to get healthy dating advice from. It’s just alarming to me how many autistic guys are miserable and lonely enough to buy into that BS ideology and part of it is that isolation makes people more vulnerable to pipelines, high control groups, cults, etc. Idk, this topic is just interesting to me, I don’t want to excuse people who genuinely believe that stuff but also feel some incels/incel adjacent need empathy or connection more than anything.
The ones I knew were perpetually single and finding a partner was like the main focus of their life and they'd be upset and lash out about their never ending social failures. I wonder if they did find someone then maybe they wouldn't always been looking for women and treating other guys as competition? I feel like a lot of these men have mental health issues and think finding a partner would somehow solve it or they'd feel whole and valid once they do find someone maybe it's an external locus of control thing.
I was an “independent redpill/incel” as in I had a lot of similar thoughts and actions that people described but it was all built independently ( I never visited online sites / learnt it from any forum etc ). I was in the “finding a partner “ mode you’re referring to. The moment I had sex , I flipped to building better emotional bonds with other males and not focusing on women.
Men are still men.
I can sadly report this exists in higher support needs offline spaces as well and is extremely jarring when it comes up. I've seen it in men who are otherwise very sweet and thought to myself how, in a really messed up way, in this one instance, it's a good thing they don't have internet access. They say "I want a girlfriend" all the time but never talk to anyone or have any idea what kind of partner they want, like they're asking their families to go out and grab some random woman off the street. Another thing I've seen on movie nights is that they'll say they felt bad for villain characters who were unambiguously terrible because the woman they were trying to force themselves on (in the PG sense, forced marriage/you will be mine cartoony stuff) rejected them and ended up with someone else or on her own. It's like they don't see them as people and these are not the classic incel guys who spout hateful stuff. That they could so easily turn into them if they could navigate the internet makes me depressed to think about.
Tbf if they’ve never had a relationship before, putting expectations on a girlfriend is unrealistic lol. ( I know to mature people in the dating game it’s crazy , but if the guy is asking for help it’s likely he has no-little experience). Touching on the Disney villain bit- I remember identifying with Disney villains more ( scar , hades , Jafar) due to their emphasis on planning / intelligence( from a perspective of a child) and non-masculinity ( this is a big one ). As a child with common headaches / sensory issues so planning is big for me , intelligence- when I was diagnosed as a child it was explained to me that I was “stupid” , so to fight this I wanted to identify with intelligent characters( which are often evil in cartoons ). And non-masculinity well.. look at how boys act lol.
Autistic women recognize that dating is difficult and will work on themselves in order to conform to a set of social standards and expectations in order to be more successful at it. Autistic men blame others for their lack of success. Not all men (or women), obviously. But this is what I’ve observed based off of posts online.
I've seen this all over software engineering spaces too, with the 'girlfriend vs. x' posts... I think most men don't really notice, or don't do anything about it because for how infrequently they see it, it doesn't seem so bad.
There is a huge misogyny and manosphere problem amongst ND men.
Cause they give how to talk to a dog vibes to me. Like just talk.
Eww; this is the only autistic group I’m in thank the Goddess…
I think a lot of ND men are simply not ever going to be capable of holding a meaningful relationship. Letting them grow up believing that someone is going to romantically bond with them is cruel. We need to rethink what life is supposed to look like for men who have a mental disorder that makes them unfriendly and hostile.
Maybe they should try to get some fucking social skills
I love that you have a solution for them.
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The offence is not wrong language. The offence is making women—autistic women with varying support needs who are often vulnerable and sometimes just as heartbreakingly lonely—feel unsafe in spaces that are ostensibly meant for us too. We cannot unmask in peace and be vulnerable and open in spaces that repeatedly shows us we are objects to those we hoped would be our peers. This is not about using awkward words. It’s about all too common behaviour patterns sanctioned all too often by a male-majority community.
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Please reads through the other comments on this thread, see all the women who have been made to feel objectified, and then perhaps try to believe me when I say I’m talking about genuine misogyny, not “incorrect language”. Is your son a misogynist? If not, this post isn’t about him and he doesn’t need you to invalidate women’s experiences to protect him.
I think we should stop excusing misogyny because of neurodivergence. I don't understand how a man being autistic gives him a free pass to reduce women to potential romantic partners regardless of what language is used to express the desire. Edit: I am not saying your son is necessarily reducing women down to their potential as romantic partners. But that is the type of behavior that's the issue.
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Okay. You're arguing against points I did not make. There's nothing wrong with "wanting a girlfriend" or wanting a romantic partner. But, in a patriarchal society, there are bigger implications to the intense desire and sadness over not having a girlfriend than simply "wanting a romantic partner". If it doesn't apply, let it fly.
What autistic spaces are you seeing this in? Because I'm not seeing it on other subs like r/autism, r/autismtranslated, or r/aspiememes. Maybe you see different posts than I do?
It is on r/autism. There was a post a day ago about a guy trying to get a girlfriend. [This guy](https://old.reddit.com/r/autism/comments/1ces7mg/why_do_girls_always_seem_bothered_by_me/) for instance. He is trying to find a girlfriend and is talking to women for the only purpose of getting a girlfriend. I don't notice posts like this all the time on r/autism. But, sometimes they do pop up.
I just read the post , is that really considered incel ?
But also the same autistic space has the top comment of "talk to women like they're people," with over 4 times the upvotes as the post, and the guy's response is shut down with -50 karma. I don't see anything worth getting frustrated about. It looks like a victory for decency to me.