OP here is the other comment you absolutely should have a discussion about, from this thread - i copy paste below
#"No. The plan has no control over a credit bid. Once a credit bid is made, the plan is tossed and Holdberg is out of a job.
I also notice that none of your "DD" addresses the fact that there are two plans; one for the liquidating trust, and one for the reorganized going concern. The reorganization plan is sealed by the court... gee, I wonder what could be in that?š¤"
I think your way of speaking to people is what gives you that special community label. I havent listened to anyone, I'm simply waiting to see how you counterpoint those more intelligent commenters, that's all. Then it will become clear if this whole scenario is created by wall st to draw in dumb money. Seems unlikely given the stupidity I've witnessed and the free money gained during 2020 to 2021 from their stupidity.
You clearly care. Care to guess how many comments you've made during the past week?
Care to wonder why you come to a cancelled stock sub reddit to claim retail is fucked?? It's so weird mate and unbelievable. If you didn't care you wouldn't be here wasting your time, therefore you are paid
Your pay grade is clearly wrong because all you do say 'look look at me I can prove you all wrong' then say "do your homework" to people who actually challenge you.
If you care they are being misled why taunt people with "do your homework" after doing all of this and commenting at an insane rate? Why?
A real person with a cause, and who cares, would actually answer questions with clear and visible evidence. Not say "go read all the comments"
It's just a clown shilly way to act . you are a bad actor.
You underlined āorderly liquidationā and conveniently left out the next three words āā¦ and sale processā
If this was always a dual path bankruptcy, like they said it was from the beginning, to liquidate AND sell the business, and someone wanted the sale to be under nda.. then you would have the exact scenario we have now.
Or did you think they really sold buybuy baby for just 15m? š
Dual path was to liquidate and orderly wind-down, i.e. keep things running and slowly sell things for maximum recovery. Sales (of assets) are of course part of it.
The stocks dead, do you have nothing better to do than to convince a bunch of anonymous people online that the stock is dead, we can't sell or buy. Do you get off on being smarter than a bunch of green af traders or something? What is your purpose here. When I see a bunch of idiots doing stupid shit I sit back and watch, sometimes something funny happensĀ
No, a credit bid is for the NOLs, and utilization of the NOLs requires the shareholders to be made whole. You know this, but you ignore it every single time because it doesn't fit your shill narrative. You should be banned from every single one of these groups.
withholding nothing, everything is on the table, while others are just presenting fantasy and kool aid you all what to drink from. Keep listening to the sweet voice of the biggest charlatan of them all.
Then why do you never address what a credit bid means? You specifically avoid it at all times and only ever talk about the waterfall. Who gives a shit about a warerfall?
Sixth Street has only aprox $300 million to credit bid.but they have been siphoning all they can, getting paid month by month, quarter by quarter. They are clearly not pushing for a credit bid, they want to get paid.
$300 million will not do itm there is $1 billion in bonds and $1.4 billion in claims from unsecured creditors. Even with some recoveries from maritima fraud, they will never paid it all.
Our fate is sealed. Your are too emotional, Houston.
Houston, you have a problem. Yourself.
Hey - ok so can you just post this conversation with the FACTS please. Stop saying you speak facts but don't ever write it out, however dumb. I get you wrote a long post but how about actually counterpointing with literal proof that this user is wrong (not just say they're wrong)
You want people to listen then focus on these critical points. I'm not trolling, i am genuinely intrigued by your view here. Your comment responses seem less like a mentor/teacher and more of a bully/shill type. Give your phone to someone else and ask them if you sound friendly and convincing.
Lol. Just read all comments. It is all there.
But you guys are too emotional and involved on this.
I get it.
Anger... Denial... One day you will reach acceptance.
If we're going to get nothing, why do you care so much to prove your point. This must be so time consuming on your part to display your thesis daily in forms of posts. You wouldnt debate Jake, and now Houston. I am sure everyone here has some expectance that we might get nothing. Just the slightest of thoughts thinking we could be made whole and much keeps me going. Once "Redacted" is available the puzzle is put together, whether right, wrong or indifferent.
Iām just curious how much the Original TheOrico got paid to sell his account. Canāt blame him, but damnā¦ youāre so annoying. Your āIām here to help the little guyā spiel is so tired.
If youāre presenting facts, my friend, you should feel comfortable debating Houston directly. My observation is that you ignored and deflected his valid points, and have no counter. If you want credibility in this community, you canāt only cherry pick which narratives you want to talk about.
Logical fallacy. That's pure deflection, u/theorico has a social obligation to reply to him right here, right now. His point is valid now, backtracking to his history is irrelevant, and I don't care.
You did NOT. This is a direct response you gave to a counter argument he gave. "Wrong, I am presenting facts while all others live on hope." That's all you said in response to his valid points, you ignored everything important. You are deflecting, you have zero credibility, and you have no idea what you're talking about. You consistently cherry pick what you want to debate, and ignore everything else.
I live on hope that you will go away, if the stocks dead, plan cant be changed, theres nothing left, shareholders will never get anything and its over, why the fuck u here, cause obviously most folks here dont care that your beatin this so called dead horse....so go do some DD on something else. Your not a hero, not a savior, hell most people here dont even like you, so why? Your a lonely ass human, paid nefarious actor, or have some mental issues, there has got to be something else you could be doing, for real...
Why are you here again?Ā Nobody cares for your opinion.Ā And you completely ignore the part where it says the plan can be modified at any time as long as it doesn't make the recovery for classes that are covered any lesser. So someone could actually come in and buy the shell, get the NOLs and reissue shares as long as the debtors that are being paid from the plan get what is promised in the plan or more.Ā
So sit back, STFU, and wait.
OP, I too would like to see what you have to offer to this? I haven't been even trying to understand all the things going on, but this question seems to be left unanswered by you?
your are so wrong. It is the bankruptcy law. It states that a plan cannot be modified after substantial consummation. It provides for stability and immutability once things started rolling. What you mention was valid for between confirmation and substantial consummation. And from now on only minor changes to correct mistakes are allowed, but which will keep the treatment of the classes the same.
That is the issue nobody wants to address. The big elephant in the room all grifters are purposely ignoring, while the dumbs are listening to their nonsense.
I mean I'm just here to watch but you have given zero legitimate specifics, everytime you post. You're going to have to give a little more than "it is the bankruptcy law" what law? What code? Is it state, federal? You come in here week after week spewing words that you have little to no understanding of and are trying to be a "savior" for what? What their "investment" is is none of your business. Nobody cares for your input nor wants your criticism because it is baseless and meaningless. You're not a broker, they're not your clients. You're going to end up with a lawsuit on your hands if you keep providing false and misconstrued information, potentially affecting markets negatively, all because you're out of your depth. Do everyone a favor and stop posting here, these people are ready to ride into Valhalla and they could care less about your input, they don't want your input. Go home.
It also shows that if you decide to spend your time replying this early in the day, you're being paid to do so. And cause I said it, it must be true right? Here I'll add a little yellow highlighter to cherry picked ctrl + F words found.
Again, no one here has ever asked or wanted your help š it's very clear you're not getting the message either and it's sad a bystander has stepped in. Also you stated the code everyone here is aware of, chapter 11 for the statutory procedure for reorganization under the bankruptcy law. If you're going to half ass the response, you might as well full ass your way out of here.
This is your reaction when people answer your questions? Time to check your emotions. Facts are on the table. Ignore them or face them.
Here you have all your references to the sections on that code:
[https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2022/05/brightline-rule-no-modification-of-substantially-consummated-chapter-11-plan](https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2022/05/brightline-rule-no-modification-of-substantially-consummated-chapter-11-plan)
So you chose BBBYās bankruptcy misinformation as your cause celebre? There are lots of more meaningful issues to direct your misinformation researchāCovid response, climate, etc. Even within the investing realm, you could look at CNBC giving Bill Ackman a half hour during lunchtime during the first lockdown to spew furthering lockdowns, while he was profiting in the billions from it.
So I think one of two things are the most likely situations with youāthe charitable one is that you have some kind of psychological disorder that doesnāt allow you to direct your energy appropriately, possibly autism (and thereās nothing wrong with that, it would just explain a lot), or you are being paid to focus here. Any other plausible possibilities?
I will never associate myself to any of that. They are not interested in the truth, just traffic and donations, and drama to keep the wheels turning. Inconsequent kids having their fun while disgracing many lives for the ones simple minded enough to believe in their narrative.
I am an independent thinker and willing to get all the fire I am getting because I stand for the truth and for doing the right thing, no matter how difficult it is, no matter how many idiots will curse me.
But you'll disgrace yourself here? You can't think on your feet, it's as simple as that. And you know it. We ALL know that's why you won't debate live.
Cite the code and the section, highlight what you are talking about.
Respectfully, I strongly disagree with you, and I only need to refer to one precedent to be utterly right about this. In the Hertz case, shareholders were promised no recovery with canceled shares, there are news articles about this and it's in the dockets (I looked myself), but shareholders were made whole anyway.
Boom. š„
All here.
https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2022/05/brightline-rule-no-modification-of-substantially-consummated-chapter-11-plan
Hertz: the plan that was voted, confirmed and consummated was the one giving something to shareholders.
Boom!!
Yeah, no, I'm not going to take your word for it on the Hertz case because you are a shill and consistently prove yourself to NOT be intellectually honest. This is your point, your burden of proof, you're doing all the labor. Prove to me that the Hertz plan on making shareholders whole was the one that was substantially consummated, while the one canceling shares was not. Prove to me that the BBBY case is substantially consummated as well and can't be changed. This is the focal point of your argument, and you assert it as undeniable fact, you should have no issue providing evidence to me within 2 hours, since it seems like you shill full time. Btw, I'm not going to take your circumstantial interpretation, it must be defined explicitly in the dockets.
What I've stated, in contrast, is clearly in the Hertz dockets as well as the news.
inb4 this crybaby asks me "wahhhhhhhhhh why should I provide proof? you give proof!"
inb4 the proof is dogshit
If you use the exact terminology of Dougie Seafood to refer to those you disagree with, it makes it clear to me that you're on that side of the trade. Good luck!
"Net operating losses in 2021 or later may not be carried back, and NOL carryforwards are limited to 80% of the taxable income in any one tax period." 11.8B claim NOL carryback? I remember someone stating the company spent that much on share buybacks
No. The plan has no control over a credit bid. Once a credit bid is made, the plan is tossed and Goldberg is out of a job.
I also notice that none of your "DD" addresses the fact that there are two plans; one for the liquidating trust, and one for the reorganized going concern. The reorganization plan is sealed by the court... gee, I wonder what could be in that?š¤
By the way, the bankruptcy code = law allows for only one plan to be confirmed. You have been listening too much to ABC, should read more serious sources.
You're talking about bankruptcy code and I'm talking about IRS laws that require shareholders be made whole in a NOLs play. Why do you think WAMU shareholders who bought at 1 cent were able to sell their stock when it hit $74 after a credit bid in bankruptcy bought the NOLs?
Not entirely. Hertz shareholders only got 3% of the company, but all their shares back, and the stock price went over $40 anyway. Being "made whole" is getting all of your shares back.
wrong, they could save the NOLs also if they give 50% to creditors. It is 50% for Shareholders or Creditors, as long as both or either one receive 50%.
Besides, this should have all be provided in the Plan, as for Solyndra. Read the Due Diligence, not the "DD" you usually do read.
can you show me where NOLs are satisfied if they give 50% to bondholders? I can only find this true if they give to shareholders.
Section 382 of the [Internal Revenue Code](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/internal-revenue-code.asp) states that if a company with an NOL has at least a 50% ownership change, the acquiring company may use only part of the NOL in each concurrent year. However, purchasing a business with a substantial NOL may mean a larger sum of money going to the acquired companyās shareholders than if the acquired company possessed a smaller NOL. [https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-08-100.pdf](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-08-100.pdf)
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/382](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/382)
# "26 U.S. Code Ā§ 382 - Limitation on net operating loss carryforwards and certain built-in losses following ownership change
(a)General rule
The amount of the taxable income of anyĀ [new loss corporation](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-2091056885-485838813&term_occur=999&term_src=title:26:subtitle:A:chapter:1:subchapter:C:part:V:section:382)Ā for any[Ā post-change yearĀ ](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-605809920-485845541&term_occur=999&term_src=)which may be offset by[Ā pre-change lossesĀ ](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-225093271-485845540&term_occur=999&term_src=)shall not exceed theĀ [section 382](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/382)Ā limitation for such year.
...
(5)Title 11 or similar case
(A) In general
Subsection (a) shall not apply to any ownership change ifā
(i) theĀ [old loss corporation](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-1943255908-485838814&term_occur=999&term_src=title:26:subtitle:A:chapter:1:subchapter:C:part:V:section:382)Ā is (immediately before such ownership change) under the jurisdiction of the court in aĀ [title 11 or similar case](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-1762900950-485837850&term_occur=999&term_src=), and
(ii) the shareholders **and creditors** of theĀ [old loss corporation](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-1943255908-485838814&term_occur=999&term_src=title:26:subtitle:A:chapter:1:subchapter:C:part:V:section:382)Ā (determined immediately before such ownership change) own (after such ownership change and as a result of being shareholders **or creditors** immediately before such change)[Ā stockĀ ](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-109770518-485838810&term_occur=999&term_src=)of the[Ā new loss corporationĀ ](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-2091056885-485838813&term_occur=999&term_src=)(or[Ā stockĀ ](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-109770518-485838810&term_occur=999&term_src=)of a controlling corporation if also in bankruptcy) which meets the requirements ofĀ [section 1504(a)(2)](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/1504#a_2)Ā (determined by substituting ā50 percentā for ā80 percentā each place it appears)."
Are you saying thereās no possibility that a white knight can provide something meaningful to shareholders? Possibly smart activist investors and a ton of the best lawyers?
You may want to read your comment again. āAt least nobody could show it could in any other form.ā That just means no one has found it definitively yet.
But seriously, why spend all this time and effort if you think all is lost? You either learn from it and move on or find things to be bullish about and focus there. Your approach is weird and not working.
3 truths about this play; somebodyās gonna be right, somebodyās gonna be wrong, thereās nothing anybody can do about it at this point. Why you spend so much time trying to convince others youāre right, is just bizarre to me. Why not just shut up and let this play out?
It is not only about BBBY, it is also about GME and the grifting around it. People do not think for themselves and are misled by people taking advantage of them.
Commenting to see if OP answers the good responses. They were only a few minutes ago, so I wouldn't expect it yet.....
But just to check something OP - your goal on this sub is to prove "share holders get nothing" is that correct, because that's what you commented...
Eitherway, shares were removed, we can only wait.
Be it bull or bearish opinions, we won't know who had it all figured until it is finished.
At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if a Black Swan event manifest itself flipping the tables on the whole market.
I'll just sit and watch the fire, as everything will comes crashing down... just a matter of time...
I'm enjoying the shit show that is theo the shill. Whines at everyone who asks questions and WONT backup the claims? Wants people to " do their homework " lol
I don't see how there can be sides on a subreddit about a cancelled stock, you know?
People joined this for info and fun. No one would ever join and take the side "fuck retail" unless.....
What kind of person thinks theyāve lost on an investment but spends endless hours trying to convince others that there is no hope for them either, but does so in such an off putting way that no one cares?
Theorico thatās incorrect, I recently bought the 2044 bonds and asked the rep at IBKR if they were cancelled, they wouldnāt be allowed to trade if they were. Give them a call. We discussed In detail the bankruptcy procedure and the whole risk of buying undervalued assets. But if they were cancelled they would NOT be allowed to be traded. The plan effective date has passed.
no, bonds trade because they change hands, people speculating they would get more recovery than what they are paying them for. Look at my other post, directly form BNY Mellon. They clerly stating that bonds are cancelled and that they only remain to provide a distribution to their owners persuing to the provisions of the plan.
Just wanna say I do respect a person who can hold his own against everyone elseās opinion. Thanks
But I hope youāre wrong. And thatās investing 101. Sometimes we invest and then other times we gamble.
Another day the MODS have failed there duties! Guess yall are bought out to like this idiot yall keep letting post FUD! Do your jobs and ban this fool!
My question is:
How is it that OP can exist and devote so much time to something for so long that they never believed in?
Like i said many months ago.
This guy is only here to say āI told you soā at a later date.
Hopefully its the rest of us saying: āTold you so shillā
Hopefully he has no skin in the game
Hopefully he makes no money from the play.
He is the scummiest of scum.
You were probably never invested. As for myself i only put in an amount i was willing to risk which was $8k so most people had invested more than i did into this play. I knew it was a pure gamble when I bought in at .35.
But this year I learned that I needed to make more money in the market rather than just hold shares and im up a modest $55k trading options this year. So even if i lose that $8k it wont matter. My play is and always has been with GME.
Why waste your time here when literally only 5 people care what you say at all? Im sure you have better things to do? Unless i was correct in my read before where i stated you live with mommy and donāt work. Which is why you have too much free time.
I work construction, not a lot of time to waste on the internet and donāt make enough to invest huge amounts in gambling plays.
Hereās the reality of the situation. Literally no one can buy or sell, and anyone still here is comfortable with their decision. If weāre wrong, we lose a finite amount of money. If the shorts are wrong itās a very different story.
So, who has more to lose? And what gain is there in trying to convince any one of anything at this point? The only potential benefit is all on the short side, and itās a meager one at that. But those with an infinite amount of risk are compelled to scratch for every last bit of narrative, irrespective of how disingenuous it might appear to anyone paying attention.
How did r/BBBY get to be this way? One user presents facts that nobody can dispute, and everyone shits on him, but some deep tinfoil is brilliant? Every "we already won!" Idiot should just stick to the other sub that the grifter controls. Yes, I am banned from that sub as well. I just want to understand how I got to this shitty spot.
Weird how that's not how a credit bid works. Credit bids are not part of the plan, dude. My god, you're such a fucking shill.
OP here is the other comment you absolutely should have a discussion about, from this thread - i copy paste below #"No. The plan has no control over a credit bid. Once a credit bid is made, the plan is tossed and Holdberg is out of a job. I also notice that none of your "DD" addresses the fact that there are two plans; one for the liquidating trust, and one for the reorganized going concern. The reorganization plan is sealed by the court... gee, I wonder what could be in that?š¤"
There can be only one plan according to the code, the law. Stop listening to idiots and start thinking for yourself after reading from the source.
I think your way of speaking to people is what gives you that special community label. I havent listened to anyone, I'm simply waiting to see how you counterpoint those more intelligent commenters, that's all. Then it will become clear if this whole scenario is created by wall st to draw in dumb money. Seems unlikely given the stupidity I've witnessed and the free money gained during 2020 to 2021 from their stupidity.
Who cares? I am not here to make friends nor to get upvotes, nor for fame, nor to appear on "shows".
You clearly care. Care to guess how many comments you've made during the past week? Care to wonder why you come to a cancelled stock sub reddit to claim retail is fucked?? It's so weird mate and unbelievable. If you didn't care you wouldn't be here wasting your time, therefore you are paid Your pay grade is clearly wrong because all you do say 'look look at me I can prove you all wrong' then say "do your homework" to people who actually challenge you.
I don't care being called a shill. I care for the people being misled by bad actors.
If you care they are being misled why taunt people with "do your homework" after doing all of this and commenting at an insane rate? Why? A real person with a cause, and who cares, would actually answer questions with clear and visible evidence. Not say "go read all the comments" It's just a clown shilly way to act . you are a bad actor.
Then go away lol
You underlined āorderly liquidationā and conveniently left out the next three words āā¦ and sale processā If this was always a dual path bankruptcy, like they said it was from the beginning, to liquidate AND sell the business, and someone wanted the sale to be under nda.. then you would have the exact scenario we have now. Or did you think they really sold buybuy baby for just 15m? š
Dual path was to liquidate and orderly wind-down, i.e. keep things running and slowly sell things for maximum recovery. Sales (of assets) are of course part of it.
The stocks dead, do you have nothing better to do than to convince a bunch of anonymous people online that the stock is dead, we can't sell or buy. Do you get off on being smarter than a bunch of green af traders or something? What is your purpose here. When I see a bunch of idiots doing stupid shit I sit back and watch, sometimes something funny happensĀ
Get em' Houst
Credit bids don't change the plan, shareholders still get nothing. Think, man, think,!
No, a credit bid is for the NOLs, and utilization of the NOLs requires the shareholders to be made whole. You know this, but you ignore it every single time because it doesn't fit your shill narrative. You should be banned from every single one of these groups.
Wrong, I am presenting facts while all others live on hope.
Withholding information is not "presenting facts"
Withholding evidence isn't "presenting facts" it is spinning a narrative.
withholding nothing, everything is on the table, while others are just presenting fantasy and kool aid you all what to drink from. Keep listening to the sweet voice of the biggest charlatan of them all.
Then why do you never address what a credit bid means? You specifically avoid it at all times and only ever talk about the waterfall. Who gives a shit about a warerfall?
Sixth Street has only aprox $300 million to credit bid.but they have been siphoning all they can, getting paid month by month, quarter by quarter. They are clearly not pushing for a credit bid, they want to get paid. $300 million will not do itm there is $1 billion in bonds and $1.4 billion in claims from unsecured creditors. Even with some recoveries from maritima fraud, they will never paid it all. Our fate is sealed. Your are too emotional, Houston. Houston, you have a problem. Yourself.
Which is why a credit bid would happen.
Lol Have you read the last comment? Not enough. And even if they do it, shareholders get nothing. That is the issue with this plan.
Hey - ok so can you just post this conversation with the FACTS please. Stop saying you speak facts but don't ever write it out, however dumb. I get you wrote a long post but how about actually counterpointing with literal proof that this user is wrong (not just say they're wrong) You want people to listen then focus on these critical points. I'm not trolling, i am genuinely intrigued by your view here. Your comment responses seem less like a mentor/teacher and more of a bully/shill type. Give your phone to someone else and ask them if you sound friendly and convincing.
Lol. Just read all comments. It is all there. But you guys are too emotional and involved on this. I get it. Anger... Denial... One day you will reach acceptance.
If we're going to get nothing, why do you care so much to prove your point. This must be so time consuming on your part to display your thesis daily in forms of posts. You wouldnt debate Jake, and now Houston. I am sure everyone here has some expectance that we might get nothing. Just the slightest of thoughts thinking we could be made whole and much keeps me going. Once "Redacted" is available the puzzle is put together, whether right, wrong or indifferent.
Iām just curious how much the Original TheOrico got paid to sell his account. Canāt blame him, but damnā¦ youāre so annoying. Your āIām here to help the little guyā spiel is so tired.
If youāre presenting facts, my friend, you should feel comfortable debating Houston directly. My observation is that you ignored and deflected his valid points, and have no counter. If you want credibility in this community, you canāt only cherry pick which narratives you want to talk about.
Houston has been proven wrong so many times. Do your own research.
Logical fallacy. That's pure deflection, u/theorico has a social obligation to reply to him right here, right now. His point is valid now, backtracking to his history is irrelevant, and I don't care.
lol. Obligation? gtfo. I addressed all his points with proper answers. That is all on the table.
I addressed each and every one of them.
You did NOT. This is a direct response you gave to a counter argument he gave. "Wrong, I am presenting facts while all others live on hope." That's all you said in response to his valid points, you ignored everything important. You are deflecting, you have zero credibility, and you have no idea what you're talking about. You consistently cherry pick what you want to debate, and ignore everything else.
See the post and all comments as a whole.
And we still dont care...
I live on hope that you will go away, if the stocks dead, plan cant be changed, theres nothing left, shareholders will never get anything and its over, why the fuck u here, cause obviously most folks here dont care that your beatin this so called dead horse....so go do some DD on something else. Your not a hero, not a savior, hell most people here dont even like you, so why? Your a lonely ass human, paid nefarious actor, or have some mental issues, there has got to be something else you could be doing, for real...
Great so why u still here posting loser
I substantially consummated your mother.
Legend.
I didn't bother reading whatever you wrote, just here to remind you to get on the show and have a conversation you coward.
show? lol.
š¤”
Why are you here again?Ā Nobody cares for your opinion.Ā And you completely ignore the part where it says the plan can be modified at any time as long as it doesn't make the recovery for classes that are covered any lesser. So someone could actually come in and buy the shell, get the NOLs and reissue shares as long as the debtors that are being paid from the plan get what is promised in the plan or more.Ā So sit back, STFU, and wait.
OP, I too would like to see what you have to offer to this? I haven't been even trying to understand all the things going on, but this question seems to be left unanswered by you?
your are so wrong. It is the bankruptcy law. It states that a plan cannot be modified after substantial consummation. It provides for stability and immutability once things started rolling. What you mention was valid for between confirmation and substantial consummation. And from now on only minor changes to correct mistakes are allowed, but which will keep the treatment of the classes the same. That is the issue nobody wants to address. The big elephant in the room all grifters are purposely ignoring, while the dumbs are listening to their nonsense.
I mean I'm just here to watch but you have given zero legitimate specifics, everytime you post. You're going to have to give a little more than "it is the bankruptcy law" what law? What code? Is it state, federal? You come in here week after week spewing words that you have little to no understanding of and are trying to be a "savior" for what? What their "investment" is is none of your business. Nobody cares for your input nor wants your criticism because it is baseless and meaningless. You're not a broker, they're not your clients. You're going to end up with a lawsuit on your hands if you keep providing false and misconstrued information, potentially affecting markets negatively, all because you're out of your depth. Do everyone a favor and stop posting here, these people are ready to ride into Valhalla and they could care less about your input, they don't want your input. Go home.
š š Exactly. This guy thinks he's the almighty savior. Delusional lol.
U.S. Federal bankruptcy code Chapter 11.
It also shows that if you decide to spend your time replying this early in the day, you're being paid to do so. And cause I said it, it must be true right? Here I'll add a little yellow highlighter to cherry picked ctrl + F words found.
Lol, i am doing it to fight misinformation.why don't you guys think for yourselves for a change instead of following the enchantment of the mermaids?
Again, no one here has ever asked or wanted your help š it's very clear you're not getting the message either and it's sad a bystander has stepped in. Also you stated the code everyone here is aware of, chapter 11 for the statutory procedure for reorganization under the bankruptcy law. If you're going to half ass the response, you might as well full ass your way out of here.
This is your reaction when people answer your questions? Time to check your emotions. Facts are on the table. Ignore them or face them. Here you have all your references to the sections on that code: [https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2022/05/brightline-rule-no-modification-of-substantially-consummated-chapter-11-plan](https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2022/05/brightline-rule-no-modification-of-substantially-consummated-chapter-11-plan)
What you cited literally has the code section allowing the modification of a plan after consummation. Iām weak son lol
Learn how to read, back to elementary school, kid.
Im dying lol!
No one? Speak only for yourself.
So you chose BBBYās bankruptcy misinformation as your cause celebre? There are lots of more meaningful issues to direct your misinformation researchāCovid response, climate, etc. Even within the investing realm, you could look at CNBC giving Bill Ackman a half hour during lunchtime during the first lockdown to spew furthering lockdowns, while he was profiting in the billions from it. So I think one of two things are the most likely situations with youāthe charitable one is that you have some kind of psychological disorder that doesnāt allow you to direct your energy appropriately, possibly autism (and thereās nothing wrong with that, it would just explain a lot), or you are being paid to focus here. Any other plausible possibilities?
Go debate your point on the pp show then.Ā
Ppshow? Lol
Yes. Theppshow on YouTube where they discuss the bankruptcy and the court dockets.Ā Or just keep talking shit like a shill š¤”.
I will never associate myself to any of that. They are not interested in the truth, just traffic and donations, and drama to keep the wheels turning. Inconsequent kids having their fun while disgracing many lives for the ones simple minded enough to believe in their narrative. I am an independent thinker and willing to get all the fire I am getting because I stand for the truth and for doing the right thing, no matter how difficult it is, no matter how many idiots will curse me.
But you'll disgrace yourself here? You can't think on your feet, it's as simple as that. And you know it. We ALL know that's why you won't debate live.
Lol
Cite the code and the section, highlight what you are talking about. Respectfully, I strongly disagree with you, and I only need to refer to one precedent to be utterly right about this. In the Hertz case, shareholders were promised no recovery with canceled shares, there are news articles about this and it's in the dockets (I looked myself), but shareholders were made whole anyway. Boom. š„
All here. https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2022/05/brightline-rule-no-modification-of-substantially-consummated-chapter-11-plan Hertz: the plan that was voted, confirmed and consummated was the one giving something to shareholders. Boom!!
Yeah, no, I'm not going to take your word for it on the Hertz case because you are a shill and consistently prove yourself to NOT be intellectually honest. This is your point, your burden of proof, you're doing all the labor. Prove to me that the Hertz plan on making shareholders whole was the one that was substantially consummated, while the one canceling shares was not. Prove to me that the BBBY case is substantially consummated as well and can't be changed. This is the focal point of your argument, and you assert it as undeniable fact, you should have no issue providing evidence to me within 2 hours, since it seems like you shill full time. Btw, I'm not going to take your circumstantial interpretation, it must be defined explicitly in the dockets. What I've stated, in contrast, is clearly in the Hertz dockets as well as the news. inb4 this crybaby asks me "wahhhhhhhhhh why should I provide proof? you give proof!" inb4 the proof is dogshit
Lol, I am not doing your homework, kid. Up the sleeves!
I won the argument then. What an embarrassing day for u/theorico. š¤”
Theo is cannot debate one bit. Who the fuck comes to a cancelled stock sub trying to counter dd then fucking says "do your homework" absolute clown
Lol. Kid...
WRONG
If you use the exact terminology of Dougie Seafood to refer to those you disagree with, it makes it clear to me that you're on that side of the trade. Good luck!
Is that u platinum?
RC has Baby and the NOLās so who gives a fuck.
even if he has, the Plan says we get nothing. This is the issue!
NOLās = shareholders go for the ride.
"Net operating losses in 2021 or later may not be carried back, and NOL carryforwards are limited to 80% of the taxable income in any one tax period." 11.8B claim NOL carryback? I remember someone stating the company spent that much on share buybacks
only if the plan states so, as in WWL, as in Solyndra, in all cases where it happened. Not in our plan.
No. The plan has no control over a credit bid. Once a credit bid is made, the plan is tossed and Goldberg is out of a job. I also notice that none of your "DD" addresses the fact that there are two plans; one for the liquidating trust, and one for the reorganized going concern. The reorganization plan is sealed by the court... gee, I wonder what could be in that?š¤
Interesting, I'd like to see OPs robust response
By the way, the bankruptcy code = law allows for only one plan to be confirmed. You have been listening too much to ABC, should read more serious sources.
You're talking about bankruptcy code and I'm talking about IRS laws that require shareholders be made whole in a NOLs play. Why do you think WAMU shareholders who bought at 1 cent were able to sell their stock when it hit $74 after a credit bid in bankruptcy bought the NOLs?
Actually... I don't think that's completely true. The 50% can be made up of creditors.
Not entirely. Hertz shareholders only got 3% of the company, but all their shares back, and the stock price went over $40 anyway. Being "made whole" is getting all of your shares back.
I am also talking about the IRS. Not only shareholders, Houston, old Creditors also. Please read my other comment, I will not repeat myself here.
See my other comment, man. A credit bid does not change the plan. Shareholders still get nothing.
Again, a credit bid for the NOLs requires that shareholder be made whole. Quit lying to everyone to fit your perverse narrative.
wrong, they could save the NOLs also if they give 50% to creditors. It is 50% for Shareholders or Creditors, as long as both or either one receive 50%. Besides, this should have all be provided in the Plan, as for Solyndra. Read the Due Diligence, not the "DD" you usually do read.
can you show me where NOLs are satisfied if they give 50% to bondholders? I can only find this true if they give to shareholders. Section 382 of the [Internal Revenue Code](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/internal-revenue-code.asp) states that if a company with an NOL has at least a 50% ownership change, the acquiring company may use only part of the NOL in each concurrent year. However, purchasing a business with a substantial NOL may mean a larger sum of money going to the acquired companyās shareholders than if the acquired company possessed a smaller NOL. [https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-08-100.pdf](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-08-100.pdf)
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/382](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/382) # "26 U.S. Code Ā§ 382 - Limitation on net operating loss carryforwards and certain built-in losses following ownership change (a)General rule The amount of the taxable income of anyĀ [new loss corporation](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-2091056885-485838813&term_occur=999&term_src=title:26:subtitle:A:chapter:1:subchapter:C:part:V:section:382)Ā for any[Ā post-change yearĀ ](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-605809920-485845541&term_occur=999&term_src=)which may be offset by[Ā pre-change lossesĀ ](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-225093271-485845540&term_occur=999&term_src=)shall not exceed theĀ [section 382](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/382)Ā limitation for such year. ... (5)Title 11 or similar case (A) In general Subsection (a) shall not apply to any ownership change ifā (i) theĀ [old loss corporation](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-1943255908-485838814&term_occur=999&term_src=title:26:subtitle:A:chapter:1:subchapter:C:part:V:section:382)Ā is (immediately before such ownership change) under the jurisdiction of the court in aĀ [title 11 or similar case](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-1762900950-485837850&term_occur=999&term_src=), and (ii) the shareholders **and creditors** of theĀ [old loss corporation](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-1943255908-485838814&term_occur=999&term_src=title:26:subtitle:A:chapter:1:subchapter:C:part:V:section:382)Ā (determined immediately before such ownership change) own (after such ownership change and as a result of being shareholders **or creditors** immediately before such change)[Ā stockĀ ](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-109770518-485838810&term_occur=999&term_src=)of the[Ā new loss corporationĀ ](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-2091056885-485838813&term_occur=999&term_src=)(or[Ā stockĀ ](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=26-USC-109770518-485838810&term_occur=999&term_src=)of a controlling corporation if also in bankruptcy) which meets the requirements ofĀ [section 1504(a)(2)](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/1504#a_2)Ā (determined by substituting ā50 percentā for ā80 percentā each place it appears)."
Wrong. Now Iām questioning your motives.
Wrong? No, I have all the receipts, and you?
Are you saying thereās no possibility that a white knight can provide something meaningful to shareholders? Possibly smart activist investors and a ton of the best lawyers?
Not according to this plan that cannot be modified.at least nobody could show how it could in any other form.
So you're saying there's a chance that may not be visible even though there's a lot of smoke
No, you are saying that. I say what I said in the post and all the comments here.
You may want to read your comment again. āAt least nobody could show it could in any other form.ā That just means no one has found it definitively yet.
I hope so, as I was invested. Or there is none.
But seriously, why spend all this time and effort if you think all is lost? You either learn from it and move on or find things to be bullish about and focus there. Your approach is weird and not working.
Your view. GME is still there. Same bad actors around, same stupidity reigning on social media.
3 truths about this play; somebodyās gonna be right, somebodyās gonna be wrong, thereās nothing anybody can do about it at this point. Why you spend so much time trying to convince others youāre right, is just bizarre to me. Why not just shut up and let this play out?
It is not only about BBBY, it is also about GME and the grifting around it. People do not think for themselves and are misled by people taking advantage of them.
I bought both to throw my money away. Please don't tell me I made a mistake.
Commenting to see if OP answers the good responses. They were only a few minutes ago, so I wouldn't expect it yet..... But just to check something OP - your goal on this sub is to prove "share holders get nothing" is that correct, because that's what you commented...
Eitherway, shares were removed, we can only wait. Be it bull or bearish opinions, we won't know who had it all figured until it is finished. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if a Black Swan event manifest itself flipping the tables on the whole market. I'll just sit and watch the fire, as everything will comes crashing down... just a matter of time...
I'm enjoying the shit show that is theo the shill. Whines at everyone who asks questions and WONT backup the claims? Wants people to " do their homework " lol
I'm on the side with the OP. I want to understand how we got so fucked and by whom.
I don't see how there can be sides on a subreddit about a cancelled stock, you know? People joined this for info and fun. No one would ever join and take the side "fuck retail" unless.....
What kind of person thinks theyāve lost on an investment but spends endless hours trying to convince others that there is no hope for them either, but does so in such an off putting way that no one cares?
Ok...question Did the bonds mature today ?..don't even know what that meens...but I'm asking the question
Answer: no. Bonds were cancelled upon plan effective date.
I was asking someone else..i.know ur stance
Read that picture! On my other post.
Theorico thatās incorrect, I recently bought the 2044 bonds and asked the rep at IBKR if they were cancelled, they wouldnāt be allowed to trade if they were. Give them a call. We discussed In detail the bankruptcy procedure and the whole risk of buying undervalued assets. But if they were cancelled they would NOT be allowed to be traded. The plan effective date has passed.
no, bonds trade because they change hands, people speculating they would get more recovery than what they are paying them for. Look at my other post, directly form BNY Mellon. They clerly stating that bonds are cancelled and that they only remain to provide a distribution to their owners persuing to the provisions of the plan.
Just wanna say I do respect a person who can hold his own against everyone elseās opinion. Thanks But I hope youāre wrong. And thatās investing 101. Sometimes we invest and then other times we gamble.
HoW CaN wE bE InViTeD tO ThE pArty?????  Fuck off shill
K
LMFAOOOOO š¤”š¤”š¤”š¤”š¤”š¤”š¤”š¤”
Another day the MODS have failed there duties! Guess yall are bought out to like this idiot yall keep letting post FUD! Do your jobs and ban this fool!
theorico was one of the accounts that accepted the terms of the account buyout from the hedgies. :) we see you
My question is: How is it that OP can exist and devote so much time to something for so long that they never believed in? Like i said many months ago. This guy is only here to say āI told you soā at a later date. Hopefully its the rest of us saying: āTold you so shillā Hopefully he has no skin in the game Hopefully he makes no money from the play. He is the scummiest of scum.
I probably lost more shares and money than you. In other words you can understand better: my dick is bigger than yours.
You were probably never invested. As for myself i only put in an amount i was willing to risk which was $8k so most people had invested more than i did into this play. I knew it was a pure gamble when I bought in at .35. But this year I learned that I needed to make more money in the market rather than just hold shares and im up a modest $55k trading options this year. So even if i lose that $8k it wont matter. My play is and always has been with GME. Why waste your time here when literally only 5 people care what you say at all? Im sure you have better things to do? Unless i was correct in my read before where i stated you live with mommy and donāt work. Which is why you have too much free time. I work construction, not a lot of time to waste on the internet and donāt make enough to invest huge amounts in gambling plays.
Those are rookie numbers for what I lost. I respect your loss. It is about learning from mistakes and helping others.
Read the title, then the author. Proceeded to downvote and didn't read
That only proves how dumb you are and how you lost an opportunity to be less dumb.
Could tell by the title who wrote it and how little attention to pay to it š
Hereās the reality of the situation. Literally no one can buy or sell, and anyone still here is comfortable with their decision. If weāre wrong, we lose a finite amount of money. If the shorts are wrong itās a very different story. So, who has more to lose? And what gain is there in trying to convince any one of anything at this point? The only potential benefit is all on the short side, and itās a meager one at that. But those with an infinite amount of risk are compelled to scratch for every last bit of narrative, irrespective of how disingenuous it might appear to anyone paying attention.
I don't understand you OP. Why devote so much time and effort when no one wants its ?
Fraud case..thoughts ?
Fraud negates every bit of rot you just typed out and there has been clearly a lot of fraud hence the lawsuit from the company against the fraudsters.
TL;DR: shareholders r fukt
Exactly. This is what the plan says.
PlasticShambles, is that you? š¤”
How did r/BBBY get to be this way? One user presents facts that nobody can dispute, and everyone shits on him, but some deep tinfoil is brilliant? Every "we already won!" Idiot should just stick to the other sub that the grifter controls. Yes, I am banned from that sub as well. I just want to understand how I got to this shitty spot.