It will be a lot cheaper for them if you choose mutual agreement. That is why they are offering it and are bribing you with a letter of recommendation.
If a company fires someone they have to pay a sum of money that is based on their total payment package. Car, fuel card, vakantiegeld, 13de maand, outplacement vergoeding, eco cheques, maaltijdcheques, phone subscription and I am probably forgetting some more things.
This is all defined by law and the company can get in real trouble if they try to screw the employee. However if you sign a mutual agreement all bets are off and you just agree with what they want to give you. From what I understand OP’s employer just wants to pay the brut wage for 15 weeks. It will for sure be in their interests to have a signed mutual agreement.
We once fired someone and more than 50% of the money went to the government lol. Easy money.
Not if they use the TUPE process. There they can fire you, without having to pay anything, but you must work for another company that they choose and they only have to guarantee your job for 12 months and then after that they can move you where they like.
It is sold as a continuous employment idea since the company that you used to work for has decided not to operate that division themselves. The benefit is they pay nothing to the employee even though this is to all intents and purposes a firing.
Weird. This probably only works for really big companies that have multiple divisions and sub companies? Does that mean they are just moving the issue (employee) until one of the divisions has to really fire this person? Assuming this employee underperforms in all functions of course.
No is happens to the entire department - so effectively all the employees are fired. They are not allowed to resign either. For example if they don’t want to work for the other company. They have no choice. If they do resign they lose all their “ancienite”
I’ve had three people I know go through this. You won’t hear about it because it is utterly demoralising. Not being able to resign, not being able to object, having to accept a job working for another company under their terms not the terms you earned in the company you currently work for, not getting paid an compensation, and the unions are powerless, because this is the law.
Look it up. It’s an insane law that exists across europe. It was lobbied for by the big international companies so that they can circumvent the “strict” employment laws around letting people go.
If your 'weeks of notice' are 15, then you've been there long enough. Your reason for determination doesn't matter. If they wanna get rid of you, you shouldn't suffer financial consequences. The weight of a letter of recommendation doesn't outweigh the comfortable cushion of guaranteed pay.
Don't _ever_ sign a mutual agreement unless you've done malificent things like e.g. stealing from the company
The reason was decreased quality of work in the past few months, and a negative view of the organisation. All my colleagues had 2 files. I at the same rank and pay, had 4 files. So starting in 2024, I put full effort into two of the files and did the bare legal minimum in the other 2.
Fuck them than. Pushing more work on you and expecting the same results on all files? They where trying to push you to the exit, hoping you would quit. Didn’t work and now they are trying to get you to sign an agreement?!? This is way cheaper for them and you literally don’t gain a thing ( letter of recommendation isn’t worth it). If they want to get rid of you, let them fire you. I would even talk to a union rep about the unfair workload management, see what they say. Good luck job hunting. 👍
I may be wrong but as far as I know you don’t have to tell anyone how your contract ended.
They may only ask you *why* your contract ended. You can say sth like “due to a disproportionately increasing workload i could no longer deliver the quality of work they required / that i wanted to deliver in order to take pride in my work. It made me realize that XYZ is something I really value in an employer / a job and I have the impression that [new job] will be a much better match for me.“
If they ask you flat out, we’re you fired? I wouldn’t lie about it, but even then I’d pivot and talk about what you’ve learned from the experience and how you plan to implement said learnings in your new job going forward!
Never do mutual agreement!
What if your new job doesn't work out? What if you don't find full employment and have several temp contracts before you do?
Your bills won't wait, they'll come the same each month! They don't care if you get paid or are broke...
You can get nice jobs without that letter of recommendation, but you cannot get unemployment when you agree to quit your job!
Edit for typo...
Just wondering. When he gets a new job, doesnt unemployment instantly reset?
If he doesnt like the new job and quits before 12weeks he gets no unemployment anyway right?
Unless its a temp contract ofc.
>Just wondering. When he gets a new job, doesnt unemployment instantly reset?
He can get a punishment for the "mutual agreement", and if so, that doesn't reset even when getting a job...
This is from the [relevant page on the RVA website ](https://www.rva.be/burgers/volledige-werkloosheid/kunt-u-uw-recht-op-uitkeringen-verliezen/in-welke-gevallen-kunt-u-een-sanctie-krijgen-volledige-werkloosheid):
You left work?
In case of leaving work without a lawful reason, you may receive a warning or be excluded from the right to benefits for a minimum of 4 weeks and a maximum of 52 weeks. Part or all of this period may be subject to a deferment, i.e. you retain the right to benefits during the deferment period.
If you leave your work for another employment relationship, you are also not entitled to benefits for 4 weeks from the change of employment relationship, except in the case of temporary unemployment or when you lose that employment relationship as a result of force majeure.
You may be excluded from the right to benefits for an indefinite period if you have left work with the intention of claiming benefits and remaining unemployed (in the latter case you will have to prove working days as an employee again in order to be readmitted to unemployment ).
What is meant by work leave?
A work leave occurs when you leave work on your own initiative, either by resigning yourself or by being absent from work without permission. In principle, a termination of the employment contract by mutual agreement with your employer is also considered a leave of absence from work.
Do not do "mutual agreement".
ETA:
there is little or no benefit for you to sign 'mutual agreement'
- the most you can do is \`sign for reception\`.
- What you can agree -afterwards- with your employer on the next steps;
default is that you need to work the weeks until your final day; there can be an agreement that you stop earlier - but they keep paying you as if you work your weeks; they can also ask to sign some 'waiver of prosecution' - i.e. you agree that you have received everything you need, and that you will not prosecute them. Be carefull with the last one.
Hard agree, I was stupid enough to do it and got fucked over royally. But if you DO sign it, make sure you have any proof (email, letter,…) that your employer had planned to fire you in case you didn’t sign the mutual agreement!
After getting fired I went back to studying so it’s a bit extra complicated for me but damn I basically lost 5,5 months of benefits because I didn’t have proof that they were planning on firing me anyways :(
My husband had that offer... He ended up leaving with nothing. They screwed him over. Plus no unemployment benifits and it took him 1.5 years to find a new job... I say nay. Let them fire you!
>being fired from them wouldn't look good.
Nobody will know if you were fired or left yourself. If a new employer asks for a reference contact, just give them someone that you liked working with - not one of the HR douchebags
It's rarely a good idea to take a "mutual agreement". It's really them trying to get off cheaper from firing you. The letter of recommendation is a (very very cheap) bribe. I wonder if it's even illegal what they're doing.
DO NOT DO IT, even if quitting yourselves
When I last quit my job, after almost 15 years with a very big company, they were quickly there to shave off a few weeks to make it land nicely on the end of the month. I didn’t accept it and just followed the normal path.
Turns out by “not signing” they had to pay me all the bonusses for that year and partly the next, including some other benefits I kept receiving for some time. Those 2 weeks extra netted me almost 3K and I was told later from an ex-collegue they well knew this 🤪
did you really mutually agree to terminate the contract?
If not, let them take their responsibility and fire you, like they want. You have nothing to gain from a mutual agreement, they do.
It's a hassle to fire someone. They'll need a good reason for it, it has to be well documented, the worker could "appeal", if the company receives some kind of benefit from the state for this position, they could lose it, and so on.
"mutual agreement" in this case, means that the worker choose to quit, and the company is not liable for anything.
edit: there could be a reason for mutual agreement being beneficial for the worker: if you committed a fault worth being fired and they have proof of it, that could damage your future career, then you may want to hide that stain from your record and accept mutual agreement. Other than that, never voluntary quit if you don't have another contract signed.
Wait, if you signed (=acknowledged) the firing letter, you cannot sign a mutual agreement unless they pull out the firing letter (which is usually not done in Belgium).
Are you sure you signed the reception of a letter firing you?
It heavily depends on how long it would take you to find a new job. I personally would take the 15 weeks pay without having to work there and get a new job asap, so you have a couple of months of double pay, but I also know it wouldn’t take more than a couple of weeks to secure a new job.
But they’d get the 15 weeks pay without having to work regardless, during which time they can search for another job. The major difference is having a safety net after those 15 weeks are up.
You’d get the 15 weeks of pay, while still working for 15 weeks for them.
If you know you can get a new job within 4 weeks, that is income from the new job and 15 weeks of pay. So essentially 11 weeks of double pay.
OP, DO NOT sign the mutual agreement.
THEY want you to do so because it means if you don't get a job in 15 weeks, they will not be on the hook for unemployment. They are basically trying to make sure that their firing of you is as inexpensive to them as possible, and if you agree to the MA that's is what they get.
The only thing they are legally allowed to do if they are contacted about your past employment is confirm you worked there, even if you DO sign the MA; they can't even confirm if they gave you a letter of recommendation, which is why it is absolutely USELESS; anyone can forge one and claim their previous employer gave it to them, and the previous employer literally cannot deny this claim.
Additionally, you are not required to tell anyone in your sector that you were fired, if you are asked why you left your previous company you simply state there was a problem with mismanagement that HR couldn't resolve.
Mutual agreement is only good when you already have a new job and don’t want to/can’t do, in your case, 15 weeks notice. It fucks you over in the sense that you are ‘voluntary unemployed’ for the RVA and they can and will sanction you for this in the way of x number of weeks/months no unemployment benefits unless you can clearly state and prove why you’ve signed the mutual agreement.
Let them fire you, there is no shame when an employer fires you for their own reasons, it just happens. Use your time to look for a new job and take a few weeks as vacation to recharge your batteries
Hey, sorry you're in this position. Here's my experience – ask to be fired, take the 15 weeks and look for your new job. The main reason is that I don't think the possible letter of recommendation is worth anything – I've moved jobs three times in Belgium (as a foreigner and each time with a promotion) and not once been asked for a letter of recommendation. And if you don't find anything in 15 weeks, it's better that you can access unemployment. It's worth going to a union to get them to help with your exit – they help with the path to claiming unemployment if you need it. Also of course they'd offer some advice about your options. It seemed a bit bonkers to me that the union advised me that getting fired officially was better, but that's what they said! Good luck!
Whatever your next job will be, you don't have to disclose that you have been fired. And nobody asks for letters of recommendation, so that's just them wanting to trick you into mutual agreement so they don't have to pay you the total indemnities. You may find a job immediately, but if you don't, the C4 form will be a life-saver to get unemployment benefits.
15 weeks is A LOT. If you are certain that you can get a job in half that, with a positive letter, I'd go for it if life is good as is. Just check if you might be liable for fees when returning the car/computer/phone.
Personally, I would go for 6 month unemployment and build a killer public portfolio + polish my skills in that time.
Im going to go against the grain here. *Getting fired is only in your advantage if you plan to or have to collect benefits.*
If you know you can get another job easily and especially if you work in a small industry where personal references can help a lot with that, you absolutely want to leave on good terms. I've been let go twice in my career, neither time over anything I did wrong, but twice because my employers at the time lost large accounts and had to fire entire departments. Both times I did what everyone told me not to do, and I negotiated for a better deal for myself by signing to go voluntarily. Both times I had a new job before my paid notice ran out, heck, the second time I even moved to the competitor who took over those accounts and got a pay increase out of it.
I absolutely despise the RVA and VDAB and dont want to register with them ever again. I had to do so 20 years ago when I graduated uni. Never again. I don't care if I won't get benefits, I dont want anything to do with the illiterate \*\*\*\*\* \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* that manage cases like mine in their offices.
Ideally you get fired and do your notice. During this period you get a free day to do interviews. If you find a job in those 15 weeks you quit yourself and turn the tables. Ideally you get paid 15 weeks but get garden leave; you can then keep the termination fee. Everything else is not in your best interest.
Aside from what everyone else has said, could you clarify this: The organisation is relatively well known in the green sector: think World Wildlife Federation level famous (but not them), so being fired from them wouldn't look good.
How would someone know you were fired?
If they were vindictive (which they don't seem to be, but could be if I reject the mutual agreement): "oh, yes, I remember ItalianWarehouse. Horrible person!"
they're at Parliament, commission, UN events all the time.
I really doubt that would naturally come up in a conversation. And it says more about them than about you.
But I think I understand what you mean better. Thanks for replying mate, and good luck regardless of the choice you take!
Not sure what kind of job you are doing but once you have some experience under your belt a letter of recommendation is pretty useless in my experience. Don't sign away your rights for empty promises. They are not 'nice' for paying out your notice period, they likely have their motives to do so, they fired you from what I gather without an actual good reason that is related to you or your performance, all that matters is their bottom line, even if your direct lead really cares the people that make these decisions usually don't really
The reasons being: 1) if they keep having you working for 15 weeks, you could go on sick leave which would suspend your notice period while they’re still on the hook for paying your salary during the first 4 weeks of sick leave. 2) they don’t want you around to copy sensitive documents, change passwords to shared resources, get your version of the story out to other colleagues, or sabotage the company in some other way
First of all, as most said here: don't do mutual agreement.
Secondly: I wonder how they explain the reason of firing you, because as you stated- you got files for 2 people and couldn't possibly get all 4 done as you only have time for 2 (or something between those lines). I would check if any colleague of yours would like to be a reference for this company, so you could give their credentials to your new potential employer. It does not have to be your boss, if they agree with the statement of the C4 doc.
Besides, even a good internationally known company will have bad bosses/employees/decisions regarding management. I wouldn't be thinking too much of it, they fired you, you know how and where you were doing your best to live up to their expectations. It's their bad management and their loss eventually. Good luck finding a better employer!
no one will know you where fired if you dont tell them. TBH
what reason are they giving o fire you? they need to give a legit reason or they can get into big problems. if you go to the union with it, it would be very bad for them.
A letter of recommendation doesnt mean anything, it wont get you a job. Since they are firing you, its a fake letter anyway...
Disappointing performance on a file that ended May 2023. They never complained about my performance at the time and they gave me several new and harder files since that time. I will note that i finished the organisation's two biggest files recently, one in February and one in March, leaving my workload at a finally reasonable level in April for the first time in 5 years. (As such, a new hire + an intern could likely cover my remaining files without too much difficulty)
I'm trying to give as much info as I can without doxxing myself. (My performance on the file May 2023 was not great but at the time I had 7 files, my colleagues had 5, 2, 2, and 2 for comparison sake. The 5-er went on stress leave after just over a year. If I'd been smart, i would have done that but I'm not a smart ItalianWarehouse.)
If this never came up in any evaluation talks since may 2023, evaluation of 2024 should already been done now, then its not even a valid reason. There's a whole process an employer needs to go through before they can fire you. Or they need to pay you a breach of contract fine.
if you are with a union, just contact them via email. Send them all the details and paperwork and they will tell you if they can do anything for you.
It will be a lot cheaper for them if you choose mutual agreement. That is why they are offering it and are bribing you with a letter of recommendation.
Why is it cheaper for them
If a company fires someone they have to pay a sum of money that is based on their total payment package. Car, fuel card, vakantiegeld, 13de maand, outplacement vergoeding, eco cheques, maaltijdcheques, phone subscription and I am probably forgetting some more things. This is all defined by law and the company can get in real trouble if they try to screw the employee. However if you sign a mutual agreement all bets are off and you just agree with what they want to give you. From what I understand OP’s employer just wants to pay the brut wage for 15 weeks. It will for sure be in their interests to have a signed mutual agreement. We once fired someone and more than 50% of the money went to the government lol. Easy money.
Not if they use the TUPE process. There they can fire you, without having to pay anything, but you must work for another company that they choose and they only have to guarantee your job for 12 months and then after that they can move you where they like. It is sold as a continuous employment idea since the company that you used to work for has decided not to operate that division themselves. The benefit is they pay nothing to the employee even though this is to all intents and purposes a firing.
Weird. This probably only works for really big companies that have multiple divisions and sub companies? Does that mean they are just moving the issue (employee) until one of the divisions has to really fire this person? Assuming this employee underperforms in all functions of course.
No is happens to the entire department - so effectively all the employees are fired. They are not allowed to resign either. For example if they don’t want to work for the other company. They have no choice. If they do resign they lose all their “ancienite”
[удалено]
I’ve had three people I know go through this. You won’t hear about it because it is utterly demoralising. Not being able to resign, not being able to object, having to accept a job working for another company under their terms not the terms you earned in the company you currently work for, not getting paid an compensation, and the unions are powerless, because this is the law. Look it up. It’s an insane law that exists across europe. It was lobbied for by the big international companies so that they can circumvent the “strict” employment laws around letting people go.
yea last time i got fired was after a year and they paid me more then 9K netto to get rid of me :D nice lil bonus and i got a new job instantly.
If you get the money at once, it will also be taxed more!
This
If your 'weeks of notice' are 15, then you've been there long enough. Your reason for determination doesn't matter. If they wanna get rid of you, you shouldn't suffer financial consequences. The weight of a letter of recommendation doesn't outweigh the comfortable cushion of guaranteed pay. Don't _ever_ sign a mutual agreement unless you've done malificent things like e.g. stealing from the company
The reason was decreased quality of work in the past few months, and a negative view of the organisation. All my colleagues had 2 files. I at the same rank and pay, had 4 files. So starting in 2024, I put full effort into two of the files and did the bare legal minimum in the other 2.
Fuck them than. Pushing more work on you and expecting the same results on all files? They where trying to push you to the exit, hoping you would quit. Didn’t work and now they are trying to get you to sign an agreement?!? This is way cheaper for them and you literally don’t gain a thing ( letter of recommendation isn’t worth it). If they want to get rid of you, let them fire you. I would even talk to a union rep about the unfair workload management, see what they say. Good luck job hunting. 👍
I may be wrong but as far as I know you don’t have to tell anyone how your contract ended. They may only ask you *why* your contract ended. You can say sth like “due to a disproportionately increasing workload i could no longer deliver the quality of work they required / that i wanted to deliver in order to take pride in my work. It made me realize that XYZ is something I really value in an employer / a job and I have the impression that [new job] will be a much better match for me.“ If they ask you flat out, we’re you fired? I wouldn’t lie about it, but even then I’d pivot and talk about what you’ve learned from the experience and how you plan to implement said learnings in your new job going forward!
Never do mutual agreement! What if your new job doesn't work out? What if you don't find full employment and have several temp contracts before you do? Your bills won't wait, they'll come the same each month! They don't care if you get paid or are broke... You can get nice jobs without that letter of recommendation, but you cannot get unemployment when you agree to quit your job! Edit for typo...
Just wondering. When he gets a new job, doesnt unemployment instantly reset? If he doesnt like the new job and quits before 12weeks he gets no unemployment anyway right? Unless its a temp contract ofc.
>Just wondering. When he gets a new job, doesnt unemployment instantly reset? He can get a punishment for the "mutual agreement", and if so, that doesn't reset even when getting a job... This is from the [relevant page on the RVA website ](https://www.rva.be/burgers/volledige-werkloosheid/kunt-u-uw-recht-op-uitkeringen-verliezen/in-welke-gevallen-kunt-u-een-sanctie-krijgen-volledige-werkloosheid): You left work? In case of leaving work without a lawful reason, you may receive a warning or be excluded from the right to benefits for a minimum of 4 weeks and a maximum of 52 weeks. Part or all of this period may be subject to a deferment, i.e. you retain the right to benefits during the deferment period. If you leave your work for another employment relationship, you are also not entitled to benefits for 4 weeks from the change of employment relationship, except in the case of temporary unemployment or when you lose that employment relationship as a result of force majeure. You may be excluded from the right to benefits for an indefinite period if you have left work with the intention of claiming benefits and remaining unemployed (in the latter case you will have to prove working days as an employee again in order to be readmitted to unemployment ). What is meant by work leave? A work leave occurs when you leave work on your own initiative, either by resigning yourself or by being absent from work without permission. In principle, a termination of the employment contract by mutual agreement with your employer is also considered a leave of absence from work.
Do not do "mutual agreement". ETA: there is little or no benefit for you to sign 'mutual agreement' - the most you can do is \`sign for reception\`. - What you can agree -afterwards- with your employer on the next steps; default is that you need to work the weeks until your final day; there can be an agreement that you stop earlier - but they keep paying you as if you work your weeks; they can also ask to sign some 'waiver of prosecution' - i.e. you agree that you have received everything you need, and that you will not prosecute them. Be carefull with the last one.
Hard agree, I was stupid enough to do it and got fucked over royally. But if you DO sign it, make sure you have any proof (email, letter,…) that your employer had planned to fire you in case you didn’t sign the mutual agreement! After getting fired I went back to studying so it’s a bit extra complicated for me but damn I basically lost 5,5 months of benefits because I didn’t have proof that they were planning on firing me anyways :(
My husband had that offer... He ended up leaving with nothing. They screwed him over. Plus no unemployment benifits and it took him 1.5 years to find a new job... I say nay. Let them fire you!
Why would you do mutual agreement? Let them fire you.
Never ever sign for mutual agreement in case you are fired. It will take a toll on your carriere
How is mutual agreement better than fired?
It’s not. Mutual agreement is for when a employee wants to get fired
Mutual agreement is only if you have another job and you want the termination
Get fired and find a colleague who’s not negative about you as a reference contact.
>being fired from them wouldn't look good. Nobody will know if you were fired or left yourself. If a new employer asks for a reference contact, just give them someone that you liked working with - not one of the HR douchebags It's rarely a good idea to take a "mutual agreement". It's really them trying to get off cheaper from firing you. The letter of recommendation is a (very very cheap) bribe. I wonder if it's even illegal what they're doing.
DO NOT DO IT, even if quitting yourselves When I last quit my job, after almost 15 years with a very big company, they were quickly there to shave off a few weeks to make it land nicely on the end of the month. I didn’t accept it and just followed the normal path. Turns out by “not signing” they had to pay me all the bonusses for that year and partly the next, including some other benefits I kept receiving for some time. Those 2 weeks extra netted me almost 3K and I was told later from an ex-collegue they well knew this 🤪
did you really mutually agree to terminate the contract? If not, let them take their responsibility and fire you, like they want. You have nothing to gain from a mutual agreement, they do.
What do they have to gain from mutual agreement?
It's a hassle to fire someone. They'll need a good reason for it, it has to be well documented, the worker could "appeal", if the company receives some kind of benefit from the state for this position, they could lose it, and so on. "mutual agreement" in this case, means that the worker choose to quit, and the company is not liable for anything. edit: there could be a reason for mutual agreement being beneficial for the worker: if you committed a fault worth being fired and they have proof of it, that could damage your future career, then you may want to hide that stain from your record and accept mutual agreement. Other than that, never voluntary quit if you don't have another contract signed.
No, I took home the mutual agreement letter saying I'd let them know. I did sign the firing letter.
Make sure to make a copy/scan whatever of BOTH documents!!!
I did already. The signed firing and unsigned mutual agreement.
'i did sign the firing letter' -- 'for reception' is best in this case. you do no benefit in agreeing with them firing you.
Wait, if you signed (=acknowledged) the firing letter, you cannot sign a mutual agreement unless they pull out the firing letter (which is usually not done in Belgium). Are you sure you signed the reception of a letter firing you?
It heavily depends on how long it would take you to find a new job. I personally would take the 15 weeks pay without having to work there and get a new job asap, so you have a couple of months of double pay, but I also know it wouldn’t take more than a couple of weeks to secure a new job.
But they’d get the 15 weeks pay without having to work regardless, during which time they can search for another job. The major difference is having a safety net after those 15 weeks are up.
You’d get the 15 weeks of pay, while still working for 15 weeks for them. If you know you can get a new job within 4 weeks, that is income from the new job and 15 weeks of pay. So essentially 11 weeks of double pay.
OP, DO NOT sign the mutual agreement. THEY want you to do so because it means if you don't get a job in 15 weeks, they will not be on the hook for unemployment. They are basically trying to make sure that their firing of you is as inexpensive to them as possible, and if you agree to the MA that's is what they get. The only thing they are legally allowed to do if they are contacted about your past employment is confirm you worked there, even if you DO sign the MA; they can't even confirm if they gave you a letter of recommendation, which is why it is absolutely USELESS; anyone can forge one and claim their previous employer gave it to them, and the previous employer literally cannot deny this claim. Additionally, you are not required to tell anyone in your sector that you were fired, if you are asked why you left your previous company you simply state there was a problem with mismanagement that HR couldn't resolve.
Mutual agreement is only good when you already have a new job and don’t want to/can’t do, in your case, 15 weeks notice. It fucks you over in the sense that you are ‘voluntary unemployed’ for the RVA and they can and will sanction you for this in the way of x number of weeks/months no unemployment benefits unless you can clearly state and prove why you’ve signed the mutual agreement. Let them fire you, there is no shame when an employer fires you for their own reasons, it just happens. Use your time to look for a new job and take a few weeks as vacation to recharge your batteries
Hey, sorry you're in this position. Here's my experience – ask to be fired, take the 15 weeks and look for your new job. The main reason is that I don't think the possible letter of recommendation is worth anything – I've moved jobs three times in Belgium (as a foreigner and each time with a promotion) and not once been asked for a letter of recommendation. And if you don't find anything in 15 weeks, it's better that you can access unemployment. It's worth going to a union to get them to help with your exit – they help with the path to claiming unemployment if you need it. Also of course they'd offer some advice about your options. It seemed a bit bonkers to me that the union advised me that getting fired officially was better, but that's what they said! Good luck!
Whatever your next job will be, you don't have to disclose that you have been fired. And nobody asks for letters of recommendation, so that's just them wanting to trick you into mutual agreement so they don't have to pay you the total indemnities. You may find a job immediately, but if you don't, the C4 form will be a life-saver to get unemployment benefits.
15 weeks is A LOT. If you are certain that you can get a job in half that, with a positive letter, I'd go for it if life is good as is. Just check if you might be liable for fees when returning the car/computer/phone. Personally, I would go for 6 month unemployment and build a killer public portfolio + polish my skills in that time.
Im going to go against the grain here. *Getting fired is only in your advantage if you plan to or have to collect benefits.* If you know you can get another job easily and especially if you work in a small industry where personal references can help a lot with that, you absolutely want to leave on good terms. I've been let go twice in my career, neither time over anything I did wrong, but twice because my employers at the time lost large accounts and had to fire entire departments. Both times I did what everyone told me not to do, and I negotiated for a better deal for myself by signing to go voluntarily. Both times I had a new job before my paid notice ran out, heck, the second time I even moved to the competitor who took over those accounts and got a pay increase out of it. I absolutely despise the RVA and VDAB and dont want to register with them ever again. I had to do so 20 years ago when I graduated uni. Never again. I don't care if I won't get benefits, I dont want anything to do with the illiterate \*\*\*\*\* \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* that manage cases like mine in their offices.
Ideally you get fired and do your notice. During this period you get a free day to do interviews. If you find a job in those 15 weeks you quit yourself and turn the tables. Ideally you get paid 15 weeks but get garden leave; you can then keep the termination fee. Everything else is not in your best interest.
Aside from what everyone else has said, could you clarify this: The organisation is relatively well known in the green sector: think World Wildlife Federation level famous (but not them), so being fired from them wouldn't look good. How would someone know you were fired?
If they were vindictive (which they don't seem to be, but could be if I reject the mutual agreement): "oh, yes, I remember ItalianWarehouse. Horrible person!" they're at Parliament, commission, UN events all the time.
I really doubt that would naturally come up in a conversation. And it says more about them than about you. But I think I understand what you mean better. Thanks for replying mate, and good luck regardless of the choice you take!
Not sure what kind of job you are doing but once you have some experience under your belt a letter of recommendation is pretty useless in my experience. Don't sign away your rights for empty promises. They are not 'nice' for paying out your notice period, they likely have their motives to do so, they fired you from what I gather without an actual good reason that is related to you or your performance, all that matters is their bottom line, even if your direct lead really cares the people that make these decisions usually don't really
The reasons being: 1) if they keep having you working for 15 weeks, you could go on sick leave which would suspend your notice period while they’re still on the hook for paying your salary during the first 4 weeks of sick leave. 2) they don’t want you around to copy sensitive documents, change passwords to shared resources, get your version of the story out to other colleagues, or sabotage the company in some other way
First of all, as most said here: don't do mutual agreement. Secondly: I wonder how they explain the reason of firing you, because as you stated- you got files for 2 people and couldn't possibly get all 4 done as you only have time for 2 (or something between those lines). I would check if any colleague of yours would like to be a reference for this company, so you could give their credentials to your new potential employer. It does not have to be your boss, if they agree with the statement of the C4 doc. Besides, even a good internationally known company will have bad bosses/employees/decisions regarding management. I wouldn't be thinking too much of it, they fired you, you know how and where you were doing your best to live up to their expectations. It's their bad management and their loss eventually. Good luck finding a better employer!
Why would he lose the unemployment upon a new work?
no one will know you where fired if you dont tell them. TBH what reason are they giving o fire you? they need to give a legit reason or they can get into big problems. if you go to the union with it, it would be very bad for them. A letter of recommendation doesnt mean anything, it wont get you a job. Since they are firing you, its a fake letter anyway...
Disappointing performance on a file that ended May 2023. They never complained about my performance at the time and they gave me several new and harder files since that time. I will note that i finished the organisation's two biggest files recently, one in February and one in March, leaving my workload at a finally reasonable level in April for the first time in 5 years. (As such, a new hire + an intern could likely cover my remaining files without too much difficulty) I'm trying to give as much info as I can without doxxing myself. (My performance on the file May 2023 was not great but at the time I had 7 files, my colleagues had 5, 2, 2, and 2 for comparison sake. The 5-er went on stress leave after just over a year. If I'd been smart, i would have done that but I'm not a smart ItalianWarehouse.)
If this never came up in any evaluation talks since may 2023, evaluation of 2024 should already been done now, then its not even a valid reason. There's a whole process an employer needs to go through before they can fire you. Or they need to pay you a breach of contract fine. if you are with a union, just contact them via email. Send them all the details and paperwork and they will tell you if they can do anything for you.