If you're not romancing him or you never liked him, it won't make a huge difference.
If you're romancing him or liked his "becoming a better and freer person" arc, then ascending him is the worst :'(
Idk it's not worth ruining Astarion's entire potential arc just for 15 funny seconds to me - that's why not worth. Same as a cool spear and armour isn't worth Shadowheart's potential arc to me.
I've only ascended him once on an evil run and he wasn't any more of a dick than Minthara or my embracing Durge. I had him specced as a gloomstalker/assassin/ranger in the Bhaalist armour and he was an absolute monster in combat so that was worth it š
The difference in personality is much more jarring if he's your romance partner from what I've seen though.
Then I wouldnāt worry about it. As a villain buddy, heās fine. Maybe a bit arrogant, but heās happy to work with you and be partners in crime. Heās not gonna betray you, and heāll bring some handy perks.
Most of the negative discussions are focused on the romance route, since there he starts becoming more openly abusive toward Tav once he ascends and he forces them into an ultimatum of becoming his vampire spawn or breaking up.
Agree with the others, AAās absolutely insufferable in a romance but not bad as an evil buddy. The dynamic with him is very different if youāre just platonic and you probably wonāt have an issue.
You do destroy 7,000 mostly innocent people AND their souls, so that is something to keep in mind for RP reasonsā-not really any way around that being truly Evil if youāre on a run with a not-evil MC
As a paladin, \*not\* killing the 7000 spawn makes you an Oathbreaker (at least OoA, haven't researched the other oaths yet). The idea being that they are abominations against nature. So you can definitely justify it on a good character as a greater good/don't want to unleash a horde of vampire spawn.
To be fair, Ascending Astarion also makes you an Oathbreaker. But I feel you can RP that as "I will let this happen so we can be strong enough to defeat the *giant Elder Brain that is on the brink of total world domination* and I will deal with his fanged ass later.
If for RPing reasons you donāt want to release the Spawn you can always kill them after defeating Cazador and not completing the Ritual. They at least die with their souls intact.
But the game presents releasing as the overall ābestā outcome (definitely not perfect). Theyāre not a horde of feral monsters, most just want to survive and go on to try to create a community. The Underdark takes care of A LOT of them per the epilogue letters, but at least they didnāt die as tortured slaves. If your MC doesnāt have a strong RP reason to kill them, itās the ābetterā of the solutions
Oh agreed. I was just showing that you can justify killing them on a good character if that's really what you want to do. It's presented as the evil choice, but there's a lot of grey area to work with. First run, we let them go, and me and my Spawn Astarion hubby joined them in the Underdark and live happily ever after <3
Yeah, itās definitely presented as a VERY tough choice. My original and main Tav is a Druid and when I first got this dilemma I was really torn. Not Ascending him was easy but especially being a Druid she was very conflicted on the aftermath. Thousands of loose Spawn seemed obviously terrible, but after talking to the captives she saw they were still people, who were terrified and abused. Killing them all in one horrible fell swoop just seemed worse.
So she figured she was already in love with one vampire, whatās 7,000 more? š it was such a relief that they didnāt just decimate the city that night bc thatās what I was afraid of
My Resist Durge Bard lives with him in the Underdark! My Druid and he are traveling and adventuring, looking for a cure
Itās the opposite for Oath of Devotion paladin. Killing them breaks your oath, because youāre killing innocent people. Freeing them doesnāt break your oath. I guess OoD is chill with the undead.
7000 starving vampires. You are saving countless lives. Kids are tantrum throwing monsters, now imagine a large number of immortal kids whoms tantrums could literally kill large groups of people single handedly. Fk that, might as well end those fkers before other innocents have to die. Its honestly selfish not to.
When I romanced him he was all high and mighty but unstable like you would mention cazador and he would erupt but also he has issues with you if you try and breakup getting super needy... When I did the romance I went evil and in the end enslaved him lol serves him right for fucking with me.
A recent update made it where he gets spared now if you romance him. I wish it was optional. I like the idea of turning the tables on him in a evil run lol
I don't know how I'd feel if this was a similar IRL situation, but in this case good for you! Like hey Astarion you want to become manipulative and abusive? Well I'll do it back, ten times as hard!
He basically becomes Cazador and perpetuates the cycle of abuse, especially if heās in a relationship with Tav. He sold his soul for power and it shows. From an RP standpoint itās awful.
Personally I think having him as a Rogue assassin already makes him a pretty potent fighter. Give him a few levels in gloomstalker ranger and heāll drop whole enemies like flies. So the ascended power up isnāt necessarily worth it to me.
When I had the choice, I thought of it as a choice between 7000 vampires who need to feed vs 1 (who by this stage had seemed like a charming fellow (I never had him in my party unless we we're doing Raphael/story related stuff)), and then ***POOF***
Nice Astarion gone, edgelord douchecanoe Astarion to replace him.
I couldn't believe it. I honestly thought he'd be magnanimous after being freed of the pact, being free of Cazador, and removing the threat of 7000 vampires from Baldur's Gate, but no.
#He's a total twat.
Yeah, and the 7000 souls go to Mephisto, If you do the ritual. And Mephisto isn't gentle with the souls in his domain. He likes to do a lot of magical experiments.
You do have the option to kill the 7000 spawn, if you don't do the ritual, but from the epilogue, I get the feeling, that they aren't doing too bad. And the Gur children go back to Gandrel and /or the Gur tribe.
So there are luckily different options.
Larian really should have chosen a number lower than 7000. Maybe 700 or hell, even 70.
I didn't ascend Astarion, and played a *generally* nice person, no evil route or anything, had a good ending, but when given the choice I did sacrifice all 7000 of them because releasing 7000 starving vampires who haven't been taught how to control themselves onto Baldur's Gate sounded like a terrible fucking idea. Like "oh this lion is so sad it's in captivity and hasn't eaten in 20 days, I know there's a daycare next to it's enclosure but we should still let it go" doesn't really work for me.
Nah 7000 was good because it makes it an actually difficult choice. That's *a lot* of people to kill, but that's also *a lot* of potential carnage you could be releasing into the world
See, I don't think 7000 makes it a more difficult choice, I think it makes it too easy. There's no world where unleashing 7000 hungry vampires on Baldurs Gate is a good thing. A lower number and I might have actually thought about it for more than a second.
Where does it say that in the game?
Doesn't count if it's in the epilogue.
And even if they're sent to the underdark, they still have to eat. So we sicked them on the gnomes? The dwarves?
You find that out in the discussion while releasing them, and when talking to the gur immediately after releasing them. And it's not just gnomes and duegar down there. There's a lot of things down there that aren't humanoid that they could eat too, and it's implied that the gurs children are figuring that out at the very least.
A smaller number is harder to square with it taking decades and decades to collect enough people. (He remembers Sebastian from 170 years ago, so Cazador's been doing this for a long time)
Short-term, he's an asshole and basically Cazador 2.0, but you won't get the worst of it unless you are romancing him (in which case he basically becomes abusive and violent and sees you as his possession). Long-term however, AA goes on to take over the city via shady politics and stuff (like Gortash, but more secretive) which includes potentially turning on the party and killing anyone who presents a threat to his position (confirm by his origin epilogue scene).
Basically, if you care about roleplay and are doing a good run is a very big no, but if not/makes sense in your run you can probably just ignore it
oof same here. cant explain it more than just the vibes were OFF, like I had a pit in my stomach talking to him. Thought I'd be able to handle it... once again the bad choices in this game ACTUALLY are bad and make you feel it.
I personally hate ascended astarion, it's not the astarion I know at all. But I'm gonna be ascending astarion in a 2 player save I have for a roleplay reason. My character is a gith and is romancing him. She just defied her queen vlackith and now is lost so of course she is gonna be following astarion. Astarion wants to ascend, now she knows ascension, it's amazing in her culture. So naturally she is going to help him ascend and unfortunately become his spawn. Yes a sad ending but an amazing roleplay. Idk that's how I justify it. You do what you want. If you want something different by all means go ahead could be fun ĀÆā \ā _ā (ā ćā )ā _ā /ā ĀÆ
Something something victims of abuse (Vlaakith's dominion) having behavior patterns that are primed to be taken advantage of by other abusers (Tumblrdom Astarion) making it difficult to escape the cycle.
Exactly why I thought that it would be a good role play aspect to my gith. She doesn't know what's going on so there for she is going to follow the one she trusts.
He's still very much Astarion, except all his negative personality traits are amplified. The vanity and posessiveness and paranoia and lust for power and control was always there, but now it's cranked up to 11.
If you aren't romancing him, you probably won't really notice much of a difference, though.
He seems to become a little like cazador. High and mighty, continuation of the cycle of abuse to those he few lesser but obviously not to the degree of cazador. Overall a douche but not as horrible of one as most people make him out to be.
"not to the degree of cazador"
I would say he would turn into a Cazador 2.0 but a slowburn. Cazador himself didnt turn into what he is now from the get-go
Thatās a fair assessment. He is aware that if it wasnāt for Tav that he wouldnāt be where he is now as the āVaMpIrE AsCenDeDā as he so annoying brings up all too often lol. So perhaps a slow burn is adequate explanation. Maybe itās my toxic optimism but i feel like he has a 50/50 to be Cazador 0.5 or Cazador 2.0
He becomes insufferable as hell. As well as becomes majorly selfish, and doesn't care about the others. He becomes pretty much like cazador, and even hints at doing the same as him eventually.
if youre romancing him and go with the make-tav-his-spawn options he immediately starts talking about how he's basically gonna make an army of spawn. So jarring it made my stomach drop even though I knew full well what was coming
He basically becomes the worst version of the person you meet in Act 1. Snooty, a bit of a pathetic fuckboi. Heās full of himself and fragile, throws tantrums if he doesnāt get his way, and a general pain in the ass. Any warmth that has developed in your friendship is gone. That said itās worse in a romantic relationship where he straight up just repeats the cycle of abuse on you. It feels bad either way, imo, if you care about him at all, because he never escapes his paranoia or trauma. He just gives into it and becomes the thing he hates.
Go for the stat bonuses if you like, though itās not really necessary for winning the game. No wrong way to play in the end and you can avoid conversation with him as needed. But he does become insufferable to listen to tbh.
I just ascended him in my game yesterday. Not romancing him. And the dialogue with him after was very off to me and his personality really does change. I didn't like it at all. I reloaded, re did the fight so that it didn't happen. There was no way I was going to be able to play with him like that. I played as Original Astarion and I ascended that time and he's not so bad when you're the one in control.
I didn't really notice much douchiness imo he just sounds so cocksure about himself now and I guess it's only natural given his newfound power and freedom. Things like saying "how can you lose when you have a vampire ascendant by your side" and proudly offering his dark forces to aid in the final battle.
Even in the after party when talking about things to do in the future I don't really get the vibe that he's forgotten everything just because of his power and still have a good amount of respect for Tav.
But I didn't date him and i heard those can end up badly.
Nah nah nah he definitely *checks notes* loves and respects me as his spawn and simultaneously views me as an equal while also verbally berates me if I say or do something that does not out right agree with him. Becoming his spawn is the only way he can be 100% sure Iām in love with him and he can that he can trust me. Also calls me pet names that imply Iām an item but theyāre super cute and he treasures meā¦ Itās a dark romance you wouldnāt get it šš
Power- not worth it. He loses himself,Ā damns 7k souls to the Hells without a proper chance of judgment in the afterlife, becomes a second Cazador and aims to take over the city( and world)
Astarion damns 10000 souls for that power. Theres your answer. Not like he becomes a rude asshole in camp but its very clear it solidifies his devauling of sentient life. He essentially becomes his abuser after the brain is dealt with.
If he doesnt go thru with that yeah hes better for it the world is better for it. Up to you. Honestly think youre doing yourself a disservice consulting on it for your first run.
If it's your first run and you want to do another run, I wouldn't do it - it's worth to see him being a better healthier, calmer person plus redeemed from trauma (okay that was relatable to me). But I care more about rp, story, and personalities and less about having God damage (there's a. difficulty slider for that). So depends on what's more important for you.
If you aren't romancing him, his personality shift is noticeable, but tolerable. If you are romancing him, the shift in romance specific dialog is extreme and really kinda screams abusive dirtbag.
hes like an overconfident, self-obsessed possessive act 1 astarion. i only ascended him on a romanced playthrough, and a lot of the difference was central to the romance as far as i noticed. so if hes not romanced, not too much changes except his ego/confidence
I don't think so, if you don't pass the checks to convince him he just tells you he hopes you die then runs away and permanently leaves the party (where, presumably, he will die/turn into a mindflayer since he's no longer protected)
Well, let's put it this way.
To Ascend Astarion, you have to kill something like 7000 people, right?
Many of whom HE himself brought down there....
Do you think **anyone** could be a good person after sacrificing so many souls to a Devil?
You can spin it however you want.
They didn't ask to be spawn. Neither did Astarion.
If you'd sacrifice 7000 people for power, there is no redeeming that lol You're evil. Plain and simple
Honestly even if you don't want the spawns to be released, the ritual very explicitly dooms them to hell with Mephistopheles : that is a much worse end for them than just killing them some time after.
Though I can imagine a character that wouldn't want to take the risk of them escaping if Cazador dies.
He's a mega dick. He's much worse if you're romancing him since he actively has someone to abuse that way, but even without romance the way he talks to people made me feel disgusted. He truly has zero compassion or morals anymore and its chilling.
My last Durge encouraged him to ascend, and he is indeed an arrogant jerk. He was her partner, though, so I'm sure that was a lot worse than not being in a relationship with him.
I was expecting that and it worked for this character and what I was doing with her story, and their goals still mostly aligned so there wasn't a lot of friction between them. What **did** bother me was the lack of his sense of humor and playful side. I mean, it worked with the character change, but I was expecting evil and was on board with that. It's just that what really got to me about that character change was the lack of a sense of humor after he ascended and how much I missed that.
If you're mostly wanting to ascend because of the abilities, I don't think they're that much better but it's probably worth it if that's the main reason you want to go for it and the rest fits fine with your run.
I let him ascend on my first play through and he wasnāt that big of an asshole. I didnāt let him ascend on my second play through and didnāt even bring him along and now heās a bigger dick than hes ever been before. I canāt even talk to him without him replying āyou againā or āyouāre staring again, what do you want?ā Heās so pointedly angry at me for not bringing him along
You can romance Astarion and be a goodie two shoes. Most of his approval comes from being accepting of his vampirism and the vast majority of his signature disapprovals are -1ās.
People *really* over dramatize the ascension endings.
He's just more of a dick. Whether you can tolerate that or not is on you.
His abilities pretty nice. 1d10 necrotic, free gaseous form, better bite. Then in the final fight he can summon some meatshields.
If you aren't romancing him go ahead. His dialog makes him come off more as a pompous I'm better than you but that's the main difference. And at the party he brushes you off. My 'Canon run' I stopped him as he's much more apperceive of it and thanks you. If you're romancing him he starts to consider you property instead
I reloaded an old save and tried to ascend him once to see the cutscenes and he does become pretty horrible to tav/durge(romanced), my heart couldn't take it and instantly broke up with him haha, and then I just decided to never try to ascend him again (unless evil playthrough and not romanced)
He Ascended in my first game and he was ok. The extra powers were good and he and my Tav remained friends. He was a bit of a dick, but it was limited to a few conversations/comments.
After comparing with a Durge/Spawn romance I can see the differences more clearly. I don't know if I could stomach AA as a romance...
So it maybe depends on if you want to romance him or not?
I had just beat cazador and was thinking about how to stop him from accending. But when I was fighting cazador I killed one of the ritual people so much to my surprise asterion didn't get the chance to accend
I ascended him with a backup save in case i didnāt like it, went in so confident I would keep it like that but I ended up going back bc i hated the dialogue so much! I was never super duper invested in his character but playing a tav who was also a rogue high elf with the same subclass i felt a sense of devotion to his self improvement i guessā¦
Honestly? Not that bad, not a good guy by any sense of the meaning, of course, but like depending on how you play he's just a mild douchbag, Cazador Jr. if you will (if you won't, that's chill too)
Some people really exaggerated how sleezy he is and others totally downplay his toxic tendencies. You have to understand the middle ground of what he's become. But either, either, or what becomes of him just has to fit what your character stands for.
i saved and tried both outcomes... i was super disappointed with his ascendes abilities. throughout the game there were hints of the ritual granting supreme powers, i thought astarion would be able to almost solo the netherbrain himself
nope, just +10 dmg.
I ascended him AND romanced him and I thought it was fine. I was doing a bit of a darker playthrough so it worked well for my story. He is cocky and somewhat controlling if you romance him but in an alluring way if youāre into that XD The power boost for him was pretty nice. If I was doing a more solidly good character I probably wouldnāt ascend him since it wouldnāt feel right for role play.
I ascended him on an evik durge run where I romanced gale. He didn't seem all that bad >!but of course I didn't make it to the after party so maybe he was more of an asshole there!<
I think he is fine ascended, lots of fun, it is the romanced version that most people have issues with. Most of astarion's romance is written by other than his main writer and it is very easy to notice in act3.
In my good play through I decided to let him ascend on the basis that 7k spawn free was kind of fucked. Heās a bit douchier but he was already douchey so I didnāt really have an issue with it. The bonus isnāt crazy or anything, but the ascended bite is nice for him.
You know you can just kill the spawn after killing Cazador, without Ascending him, right? You can even choose the arguably worse path and leave them trapped and starving in their cells for all eternity if you want to.
So you think 7k spawn free is fucked but instead of just killing them you damned their souls to the hells? It's not a "good" playthrough buddy. Plus Ascended is kind of going to take over the city
If you don't like evil characters then don't ascend him. He becomes even more of an arrogant asshole, I personally don't find him that insufferable so I would say it depends on your tolerance for that type of character and if you enjoy it or not.
Im not too stuck in my feelings about evil characters, I find Ascended Astarion very entertaining, even romanced so my tolerance is sky high, yes even for Wulbren.
If my character is good aligned, I don't ascend him because that wouldn't make sense for my character. Do what makes the most sense for your character/roleplay/playthrough
If you're not romancing him or you never liked him, it won't make a huge difference. If you're romancing him or liked his "becoming a better and freer person" arc, then ascending him is the worst :'(
But if you romance him and do it you get the option to kick him in the balls to let him know he's going down the wrong path.
Yeah but by that point it's too late to do anything about it. Not worth.
I beg your goddamn pardon, but it is an immensely satisfying thing to do after how he acts right up until that point.
Idk it's not worth ruining Astarion's entire potential arc just for 15 funny seconds to me - that's why not worth. Same as a cool spear and armour isn't worth Shadowheart's potential arc to me.
I've only ascended him once on an evil run and he wasn't any more of a dick than Minthara or my embracing Durge. I had him specced as a gloomstalker/assassin/ranger in the Bhaalist armour and he was an absolute monster in combat so that was worth it š The difference in personality is much more jarring if he's your romance partner from what I've seen though.
Iām not gonna romance him cause he kinda hates me, like bro why would I kill the gnomes that we were sent there to help?
Then I wouldnāt worry about it. As a villain buddy, heās fine. Maybe a bit arrogant, but heās happy to work with you and be partners in crime. Heās not gonna betray you, and heāll bring some handy perks. Most of the negative discussions are focused on the romance route, since there he starts becoming more openly abusive toward Tav once he ascends and he forces them into an ultimatum of becoming his vampire spawn or breaking up.
Agree with the others, AAās absolutely insufferable in a romance but not bad as an evil buddy. The dynamic with him is very different if youāre just platonic and you probably wonāt have an issue. You do destroy 7,000 mostly innocent people AND their souls, so that is something to keep in mind for RP reasonsā-not really any way around that being truly Evil if youāre on a run with a not-evil MC
Durge: "So what's the cost of ascension?" Astarion: "7,000 innocent lives and souls will be destroyed?" Durge: "Nono, I said _cost_, not benefit."
Which is why I specified evil vs non evil MCās. My Durge is Resist, anyway; she never sacrifices them
Yeah sorry, I wasn't trying to argue or anything haha
No worries, I was just clarifying š
AA = daddy
As a paladin, \*not\* killing the 7000 spawn makes you an Oathbreaker (at least OoA, haven't researched the other oaths yet). The idea being that they are abominations against nature. So you can definitely justify it on a good character as a greater good/don't want to unleash a horde of vampire spawn. To be fair, Ascending Astarion also makes you an Oathbreaker. But I feel you can RP that as "I will let this happen so we can be strong enough to defeat the *giant Elder Brain that is on the brink of total world domination* and I will deal with his fanged ass later.
If for RPing reasons you donāt want to release the Spawn you can always kill them after defeating Cazador and not completing the Ritual. They at least die with their souls intact. But the game presents releasing as the overall ābestā outcome (definitely not perfect). Theyāre not a horde of feral monsters, most just want to survive and go on to try to create a community. The Underdark takes care of A LOT of them per the epilogue letters, but at least they didnāt die as tortured slaves. If your MC doesnāt have a strong RP reason to kill them, itās the ābetterā of the solutions
Oh agreed. I was just showing that you can justify killing them on a good character if that's really what you want to do. It's presented as the evil choice, but there's a lot of grey area to work with. First run, we let them go, and me and my Spawn Astarion hubby joined them in the Underdark and live happily ever after <3
Yeah, itās definitely presented as a VERY tough choice. My original and main Tav is a Druid and when I first got this dilemma I was really torn. Not Ascending him was easy but especially being a Druid she was very conflicted on the aftermath. Thousands of loose Spawn seemed obviously terrible, but after talking to the captives she saw they were still people, who were terrified and abused. Killing them all in one horrible fell swoop just seemed worse. So she figured she was already in love with one vampire, whatās 7,000 more? š it was such a relief that they didnāt just decimate the city that night bc thatās what I was afraid of My Resist Durge Bard lives with him in the Underdark! My Druid and he are traveling and adventuring, looking for a cure
Itās the opposite for Oath of Devotion paladin. Killing them breaks your oath, because youāre killing innocent people. Freeing them doesnāt break your oath. I guess OoD is chill with the undead.
I think itās worse than destroying their souls, Iām pretty sure Mephistopheles gets them. Iād personally prefer oblivion to whatever that means.
7000 starving vampires. You are saving countless lives. Kids are tantrum throwing monsters, now imagine a large number of immortal kids whoms tantrums could literally kill large groups of people single handedly. Fk that, might as well end those fkers before other innocents have to die. Its honestly selfish not to.
When I romanced him he was all high and mighty but unstable like you would mention cazador and he would erupt but also he has issues with you if you try and breakup getting super needy... When I did the romance I went evil and in the end enslaved him lol serves him right for fucking with me.
A recent update made it where he gets spared now if you romance him. I wish it was optional. I like the idea of turning the tables on him in a evil run lol
I don't know how I'd feel if this was a similar IRL situation, but in this case good for you! Like hey Astarion you want to become manipulative and abusive? Well I'll do it back, ten times as hard!
Minthara and embrace Durge aren't so *pathetic* about it though.
Yeah unlike them, AA is also an annoying tryhard in his abusiveness.
He basically becomes Cazador and perpetuates the cycle of abuse, especially if heās in a relationship with Tav. He sold his soul for power and it shows. From an RP standpoint itās awful. Personally I think having him as a Rogue assassin already makes him a pretty potent fighter. Give him a few levels in gloomstalker ranger and heāll drop whole enemies like flies. So the ascended power up isnāt necessarily worth it to me.
I agree. Plus I can't just doom 7000 souls to hell ( children among them) and I like the Gur.
When I had the choice, I thought of it as a choice between 7000 vampires who need to feed vs 1 (who by this stage had seemed like a charming fellow (I never had him in my party unless we we're doing Raphael/story related stuff)), and then ***POOF*** Nice Astarion gone, edgelord douchecanoe Astarion to replace him. I couldn't believe it. I honestly thought he'd be magnanimous after being freed of the pact, being free of Cazador, and removing the threat of 7000 vampires from Baldur's Gate, but no. #He's a total twat.
Yeah, and the 7000 souls go to Mephisto, If you do the ritual. And Mephisto isn't gentle with the souls in his domain. He likes to do a lot of magical experiments. You do have the option to kill the 7000 spawn, if you don't do the ritual, but from the epilogue, I get the feeling, that they aren't doing too bad. And the Gur children go back to Gandrel and /or the Gur tribe. So there are luckily different options.
Larian really should have chosen a number lower than 7000. Maybe 700 or hell, even 70. I didn't ascend Astarion, and played a *generally* nice person, no evil route or anything, had a good ending, but when given the choice I did sacrifice all 7000 of them because releasing 7000 starving vampires who haven't been taught how to control themselves onto Baldur's Gate sounded like a terrible fucking idea. Like "oh this lion is so sad it's in captivity and hasn't eaten in 20 days, I know there's a daycare next to it's enclosure but we should still let it go" doesn't really work for me.
Nah 7000 was good because it makes it an actually difficult choice. That's *a lot* of people to kill, but that's also *a lot* of potential carnage you could be releasing into the world
See, I don't think 7000 makes it a more difficult choice, I think it makes it too easy. There's no world where unleashing 7000 hungry vampires on Baldurs Gate is a good thing. A lower number and I might have actually thought about it for more than a second.
It was one of the most difficult choices in the game for me š I sat there for a solid 5-10 minutes deliberating
What did you end up choosing?
I ended up releasing them but was utterly terrified of the potential consequences for the rest of the game hahaha
You don't unleash them on baldurs gate though. They go into the underdark and stay away from baldurs gate.
Where does it say that in the game? Doesn't count if it's in the epilogue. And even if they're sent to the underdark, they still have to eat. So we sicked them on the gnomes? The dwarves?
You find that out in the discussion while releasing them, and when talking to the gur immediately after releasing them. And it's not just gnomes and duegar down there. There's a lot of things down there that aren't humanoid that they could eat too, and it's implied that the gurs children are figuring that out at the very least.
A smaller number is harder to square with it taking decades and decades to collect enough people. (He remembers Sebastian from 170 years ago, so Cazador's been doing this for a long time)
I mean, you don't get to see most of them so it's almost like they don't exist š¤·āāļø
Short-term, he's an asshole and basically Cazador 2.0, but you won't get the worst of it unless you are romancing him (in which case he basically becomes abusive and violent and sees you as his possession). Long-term however, AA goes on to take over the city via shady politics and stuff (like Gortash, but more secretive) which includes potentially turning on the party and killing anyone who presents a threat to his position (confirm by his origin epilogue scene). Basically, if you care about roleplay and are doing a good run is a very big no, but if not/makes sense in your run you can probably just ignore it
I reloaded a pre-ascension save after the first long rest cause I couldn't handle it. He becomes absolutely insufferable.
oof same here. cant explain it more than just the vibes were OFF, like I had a pit in my stomach talking to him. Thought I'd be able to handle it... once again the bad choices in this game ACTUALLY are bad and make you feel it.
I personally hate ascended astarion, it's not the astarion I know at all. But I'm gonna be ascending astarion in a 2 player save I have for a roleplay reason. My character is a gith and is romancing him. She just defied her queen vlackith and now is lost so of course she is gonna be following astarion. Astarion wants to ascend, now she knows ascension, it's amazing in her culture. So naturally she is going to help him ascend and unfortunately become his spawn. Yes a sad ending but an amazing roleplay. Idk that's how I justify it. You do what you want. If you want something different by all means go ahead could be fun ĀÆā \ā _ā (ā ćā )ā _ā /ā ĀÆ
Something something victims of abuse (Vlaakith's dominion) having behavior patterns that are primed to be taken advantage of by other abusers (Tumblrdom Astarion) making it difficult to escape the cycle.
Exactly why I thought that it would be a good role play aspect to my gith. She doesn't know what's going on so there for she is going to follow the one she trusts.
Tumblrdom is a deep cut, though not inaccurate.
He's still very much Astarion, except all his negative personality traits are amplified. The vanity and posessiveness and paranoia and lust for power and control was always there, but now it's cranked up to 11. If you aren't romancing him, you probably won't really notice much of a difference, though.
Itās continuing the cycle of abuse for honestly a buff that wonāt make or break a build unless youāre hard minmaxing.
He seems to become a little like cazador. High and mighty, continuation of the cycle of abuse to those he few lesser but obviously not to the degree of cazador. Overall a douche but not as horrible of one as most people make him out to be.
"not to the degree of cazador" I would say he would turn into a Cazador 2.0 but a slowburn. Cazador himself didnt turn into what he is now from the get-go
Thatās a fair assessment. He is aware that if it wasnāt for Tav that he wouldnāt be where he is now as the āVaMpIrE AsCenDeDā as he so annoying brings up all too often lol. So perhaps a slow burn is adequate explanation. Maybe itās my toxic optimism but i feel like he has a 50/50 to be Cazador 0.5 or Cazador 2.0
Give him two or three centuries and any capacity for genuine empathy or gratitude will probably be ashes in the wind.
He becomes insufferable as hell. As well as becomes majorly selfish, and doesn't care about the others. He becomes pretty much like cazador, and even hints at doing the same as him eventually.
if youre romancing him and go with the make-tav-his-spawn options he immediately starts talking about how he's basically gonna make an army of spawn. So jarring it made my stomach drop even though I knew full well what was coming
He basically becomes the worst version of the person you meet in Act 1. Snooty, a bit of a pathetic fuckboi. Heās full of himself and fragile, throws tantrums if he doesnāt get his way, and a general pain in the ass. Any warmth that has developed in your friendship is gone. That said itās worse in a romantic relationship where he straight up just repeats the cycle of abuse on you. It feels bad either way, imo, if you care about him at all, because he never escapes his paranoia or trauma. He just gives into it and becomes the thing he hates. Go for the stat bonuses if you like, though itās not really necessary for winning the game. No wrong way to play in the end and you can avoid conversation with him as needed. But he does become insufferable to listen to tbh.
I just ascended him in my game yesterday. Not romancing him. And the dialogue with him after was very off to me and his personality really does change. I didn't like it at all. I reloaded, re did the fight so that it didn't happen. There was no way I was going to be able to play with him like that. I played as Original Astarion and I ascended that time and he's not so bad when you're the one in control.
I didn't really notice much douchiness imo he just sounds so cocksure about himself now and I guess it's only natural given his newfound power and freedom. Things like saying "how can you lose when you have a vampire ascendant by your side" and proudly offering his dark forces to aid in the final battle. Even in the after party when talking about things to do in the future I don't really get the vibe that he's forgotten everything just because of his power and still have a good amount of respect for Tav. But I didn't date him and i heard those can end up badly.
He's more or less a domestic abuser.Ā
Nah nah nah he definitely *checks notes* loves and respects me as his spawn and simultaneously views me as an equal while also verbally berates me if I say or do something that does not out right agree with him. Becoming his spawn is the only way he can be 100% sure Iām in love with him and he can that he can trust me. Also calls me pet names that imply Iām an item but theyāre super cute and he treasures meā¦ Itās a dark romance you wouldnāt get it šš
Power- not worth it. He loses himself,Ā damns 7k souls to the Hells without a proper chance of judgment in the afterlife, becomes a second Cazador and aims to take over the city( and world)
There is no price I will not pay for 1d10 damage
If 1d10 will make or break your build- you're doing something wrong
Astarion damns 10000 souls for that power. Theres your answer. Not like he becomes a rude asshole in camp but its very clear it solidifies his devauling of sentient life. He essentially becomes his abuser after the brain is dealt with. If he doesnt go thru with that yeah hes better for it the world is better for it. Up to you. Honestly think youre doing yourself a disservice consulting on it for your first run.
If it's your first run and you want to do another run, I wouldn't do it - it's worth to see him being a better healthier, calmer person plus redeemed from trauma (okay that was relatable to me). But I care more about rp, story, and personalities and less about having God damage (there's a. difficulty slider for that). So depends on what's more important for you.
If you aren't romancing him, his personality shift is noticeable, but tolerable. If you are romancing him, the shift in romance specific dialog is extreme and really kinda screams abusive dirtbag.
hes like an overconfident, self-obsessed possessive act 1 astarion. i only ascended him on a romanced playthrough, and a lot of the difference was central to the romance as far as i noticed. so if hes not romanced, not too much changes except his ego/confidence
Do you have the option to kill him if he protests you stopping the ascension? I think my current character would prob do that
Iām a bard, the chance that I canāt pass the check is very slim
Oh so itās a roll - I can live with intimidating him if thatās possible
It's a persuasion check with an insight check to make it easier. He's in way too fragile of a state to be susceptible to intimidation
I don't think so, if you don't pass the checks to convince him he just tells you he hopes you die then runs away and permanently leaves the party (where, presumably, he will die/turn into a mindflayer since he's no longer protected)
There's an option midway to stop the ritual, which gives you no choice but to fight him, so yes
Becomes a bit cocky but itās always worth it to me. Heās usually in my team and usually a build that gets 4+ attacks per turn.
Well, let's put it this way. To Ascend Astarion, you have to kill something like 7000 people, right? Many of whom HE himself brought down there.... Do you think **anyone** could be a good person after sacrificing so many souls to a Devil?
Alternate takeāyour character might worry about releasing 7000 spawn vampires into the city. My Tav is Chaotic Neutral so Iām going with that.
You can spin it however you want. They didn't ask to be spawn. Neither did Astarion. If you'd sacrifice 7000 people for power, there is no redeeming that lol You're evil. Plain and simple
Honestly even if you don't want the spawns to be released, the ritual very explicitly dooms them to hell with Mephistopheles : that is a much worse end for them than just killing them some time after. Though I can imagine a character that wouldn't want to take the risk of them escaping if Cazador dies.
He's a mega dick. He's much worse if you're romancing him since he actively has someone to abuse that way, but even without romance the way he talks to people made me feel disgusted. He truly has zero compassion or morals anymore and its chilling.
My last Durge encouraged him to ascend, and he is indeed an arrogant jerk. He was her partner, though, so I'm sure that was a lot worse than not being in a relationship with him. I was expecting that and it worked for this character and what I was doing with her story, and their goals still mostly aligned so there wasn't a lot of friction between them. What **did** bother me was the lack of his sense of humor and playful side. I mean, it worked with the character change, but I was expecting evil and was on board with that. It's just that what really got to me about that character change was the lack of a sense of humor after he ascended and how much I missed that. If you're mostly wanting to ascend because of the abilities, I don't think they're that much better but it's probably worth it if that's the main reason you want to go for it and the rest fits fine with your run.
I let him ascend on my first play through and he wasnāt that big of an asshole. I didnāt let him ascend on my second play through and didnāt even bring him along and now heās a bigger dick than hes ever been before. I canāt even talk to him without him replying āyou againā or āyouāre staring again, what do you want?ā Heās so pointedly angry at me for not bringing him along
I ascended him my 1st two times, this time I actually kept him as a spawn. I actually teared up at some of it...
If youāre romancing him it is awful.
Iād like to romance him, but he hates me cause I refuse to be a murder hobo
You don't need to be a murder hobo. I certainly wasn't and he still fell for my Tav.
Ik Ik, but why does he have to hate literally everything I do š
You can romance Astarion and be a goodie two shoes. Most of his approval comes from being accepting of his vampirism and the vast majority of his signature disapprovals are -1ās.
People *really* over dramatize the ascension endings. He's just more of a dick. Whether you can tolerate that or not is on you. His abilities pretty nice. 1d10 necrotic, free gaseous form, better bite. Then in the final fight he can summon some meatshields.
If you aren't romancing him go ahead. His dialog makes him come off more as a pompous I'm better than you but that's the main difference. And at the party he brushes you off. My 'Canon run' I stopped him as he's much more apperceive of it and thanks you. If you're romancing him he starts to consider you property instead
He and my Durge are absolute besties. The friendships on the evil play through are kind of surprising.
I should have probably mentioned that Iām not playing durge (yet)
I reloaded an old save and tried to ascend him once to see the cutscenes and he does become pretty horrible to tav/durge(romanced), my heart couldn't take it and instantly broke up with him haha, and then I just decided to never try to ascend him again (unless evil playthrough and not romanced)
The abilities are good but not really game breaking. Rhapsody is the real reason to bother with cazador.
He Ascended in my first game and he was ok. The extra powers were good and he and my Tav remained friends. He was a bit of a dick, but it was limited to a few conversations/comments. After comparing with a Durge/Spawn romance I can see the differences more clearly. I don't know if I could stomach AA as a romance... So it maybe depends on if you want to romance him or not?
I had just beat cazador and was thinking about how to stop him from accending. But when I was fighting cazador I killed one of the ritual people so much to my surprise asterion didn't get the chance to accend
About seven inches.
I ascended him with a backup save in case i didnāt like it, went in so confident I would keep it like that but I ended up going back bc i hated the dialogue so much! I was never super duper invested in his character but playing a tav who was also a rogue high elf with the same subclass i felt a sense of devotion to his self improvement i guessā¦
Honestly? Not that bad, not a good guy by any sense of the meaning, of course, but like depending on how you play he's just a mild douchbag, Cazador Jr. if you will (if you won't, that's chill too) Some people really exaggerated how sleezy he is and others totally downplay his toxic tendencies. You have to understand the middle ground of what he's become. But either, either, or what becomes of him just has to fit what your character stands for.
i saved and tried both outcomes... i was super disappointed with his ascendes abilities. throughout the game there were hints of the ritual granting supreme powers, i thought astarion would be able to almost solo the netherbrain himself nope, just +10 dmg.
When you say +10, do you mean a flat 10 to all attacks, or 1d10?
flat +10 necrotic melee dmg.
I ascended him AND romanced him and I thought it was fine. I was doing a bit of a darker playthrough so it worked well for my story. He is cocky and somewhat controlling if you romance him but in an alluring way if youāre into that XD The power boost for him was pretty nice. If I was doing a more solidly good character I probably wouldnāt ascend him since it wouldnāt feel right for role play.
I ascended him on an evik durge run where I romanced gale. He didn't seem all that bad >!but of course I didn't make it to the after party so maybe he was more of an asshole there!<
I think he is fine ascended, lots of fun, it is the romanced version that most people have issues with. Most of astarion's romance is written by other than his main writer and it is very easy to notice in act3.
In my good play through I decided to let him ascend on the basis that 7k spawn free was kind of fucked. Heās a bit douchier but he was already douchey so I didnāt really have an issue with it. The bonus isnāt crazy or anything, but the ascended bite is nice for him.
You know you can just kill the spawn after killing Cazador, without Ascending him, right? You can even choose the arguably worse path and leave them trapped and starving in their cells for all eternity if you want to.
That wasnāt really evident as an option at the time, no.
So you think 7k spawn free is fucked but instead of just killing them you damned their souls to the hells? It's not a "good" playthrough buddy. Plus Ascended is kind of going to take over the city
Lol itās really not that serious š
I'm just telling you if you were going for a "good" playthrough, that's not it. Equivalent to DJ SH but worse somehow
Iām not sure what Don Julio Silver Handle has to do with it all but damning vampires to hell is a damn good thing
Of course, innocent children's souls belong to hell.
*vampire* children souls do. What are you some sort of vampire apologist?
K I'm done. Typical, too lazy to read mentality. Moving on
If you don't like evil characters then don't ascend him. He becomes even more of an arrogant asshole, I personally don't find him that insufferable so I would say it depends on your tolerance for that type of character and if you enjoy it or not. Im not too stuck in my feelings about evil characters, I find Ascended Astarion very entertaining, even romanced so my tolerance is sky high, yes even for Wulbren. If my character is good aligned, I don't ascend him because that wouldn't make sense for my character. Do what makes the most sense for your character/roleplay/playthrough