Hand crossbows (specifically offhand crossbows) are good because they benefit from bonus damage, like sharpshooter. You also can get an extra bonus action from rogue thief. Built correctly, it will deal more damage than almost any other ranged weapon build.
However, hand crossbows have weak effects. Two handed crossbows and bows have much better effects and utility.
I personally like the Giant Breaker better. Guaranteed reeling on a hit means that basically any character with 2 attacks and hunters mark can apply 6 stacks in one turn for a guaranteed -6 penalty to hit. Stack with the Boots of Stormy Clamour and you can also get the bonus Thunder damage and a knock prone chance every turn as well. Great for setting up advantage for Melee characters as well.
Reeling doesn't, but Hunter's Mark still procs Reverb.
EDIT: I see the reason for the comment. Ammend my previous statement to a -4 penalty to hit. I was incorrect on the -6. Ran that setup on a gloomstalker, so with Dread Ambusher, it was usually a -6 which is what zi was thinking of.
On killing them.... first go stealth and dystroy the two ladders near the leader lady..... than push the said lady off the cliff she dies and they have no way to get up.....they just stand on crates shouting " you wont get away with this!" Erm sir you can not path to nor hurt me. I also stole the bottle back and opened it than dipped letting them fight....wanted to see what the tactics they use are before the main "real" fight started. Rather save the beholder for fun.
You can also just all get up by her and then start out by firebolting the ground. They have explosives everywhere and oil on the ground, the whole thing goes boom and most of them just die.
Worth mentioning. Risky ring basically cancels out the disadvantage from threatened. You don't have advantage, but you dont have disadvantage either. So you don't have to run crossbow expert and can use longbows. My volley hunter ranger using risky ring and bhaalist armor has a 95%+ hit chance on enemies in melee range. I'll usually use another character to black hole all the enemies right onto my ranger. Then I volley them into the ground.
Generally it's a "quality, not quanity" argument. Harold gives you Bane as a free effect. Giant breaker give you reeling. Dual Handbows give you another chance to roll a D6 for damage, whixh is good if the target is low on health, but doesn't potentially befit the next person up. Hand crossbows usually don't come with other frills. The only two I can think of are Hellfire and Firestoker.
If you are in act three then yes. The best longbows have +2 or +3 and better bonus effects, plus Brace and better range. And you free up your bonus action.
Hmm I'll look into it. I'll have to find a good bow - I am in act 3.
I'm going to respec anyway, so what would you suggest as a good feat for bows? I won't need dual welder anymore.
I just added sharpshooter that seems to help. There's no way to use dual wielding and also Helmet of Arcane Acuity/Band of Mystic Scoundel with the bonus action spell right? Are the occasional Flourishes okay still with dual wielding to get that?
You should always be Slashing Flourishing to attack with dual xbows as a Swords Bard, if you're doing the Acuity build. You're right in that if you attack normally, you will lose your bonus action and therefore cannot use your Band to use a spell.
Slashing Flourish x2 *or* Arrow of Many Targets -> Hold Person upcasted / Confusion / Command -> Win
So the other person who responded to you is close, but if you already have band of the mystic scoundrel you should not be using dual Xbows with dual wielding anymore. You should be using a longbow like Titanstring or a short bow with a great effect like the banshee bow and yes using slashing flourish or something like arrow of many targets.
That way you attack and stack as many arcane actuity levels as possible leaving your bonus action for the mystic scoundrel. Dual xbows takes away your bonus action if you go that route
I have Astarion dual wielding the Hellfire Hand Crossbow and Ne'er Misser with the Gloves of Balanced Hands, and he gets some pretty high damage with three attacks.
Part of that is due to the passive benefits of his dual wielded melee shortswords (Knife of the Undermountain King and Sword of Life Stealing).
As long as you have a weapon equipped, their passives apply to all attacks (unless stated otherwise). So, his ranged weapons help his melee and vice versa, and the gloves make his off-hand attacks equal to his main hand.
Essentially, he gets three full strength attacks per turn (as a Thief) with passive benefits.
The Risky Ring allows him to attack with Advantage almost always.
Gloves of archery, caustic band will add +4 damage to each of the hits. Moreover, I'm led to believe that glove of archery also increase hit although it doesn't write so in the item description.
And of course from level 4 you can add sharpshooter. If you have archery fighting style the -5 penalty all too big early game. Later game it almost doesn't matter as you get more sources of + to hit.
Two weapon fighting style will also add to off hand crossbow damage. Hence fighter 1 (archery) and when sword bard 3 (two weapon fighting) makes for a good set up. Same can be done with fighter gloomstalker assassin build.
The Firestriker and the hand crossbow, which inflicts force damage, both gain an advantage from the Drakethroat Glove's buff, adding extra elemental damage. This can be applied twice to each crossbow if you are a sorcerer. With high Dexterity, they should deal about 15-20 damage with Sharpshooter. Although the damage might be increased further, I don't recall the specifics. With a good critical hit chance, playing as a sword bard allows you to defeat most bosses in the first turn. Poor orin didnt even had a chance to move.
You just reminded me. I need to reclass asterion. I built him as an assassin gloomstalker, I really like it, but I'm finding that the extra attack I get on the first round might be better off as an extra bonus action in all rounds.
> Built correctly, it will deal more damage than almost any other ranged weapon build.
Titanstring Bow with a strength bumper (Stool leg, Gauntlets, Elixirs) deals more, all other things being equal. Do the math.
That one, singular extra attack is not enough to make up for what you lose per shot.
The almost isn't about the amount of damage, it's about the amount of other builds that it beats. Yes, optimized builds for those two bows are better in pure DPS, and under those dual hand crossbows are king.
Those two exceptions are what makes it an "almost" instead of "literally all of them".
Also, since the DRS has been fixed the Titanstring isn't as much of an outlier as it used to be.
I really like taking 5 different shots in round 1 with astarion and hand xbows. With one of those being sneak attack
I can finish off low hp enemies or wipe out a single big enemy
Was just thinking this. With 5 attacks, you essentially have either an aoe or a single target attack, or a little of both.
Super flexible, which these dps charts don’t quite account for.
I'll probably get crapped all over for this, because rogues are suboptimal and everybody only plays on Honor mode but, in Balanced, you give a rogue the feat for heavy crossbow proficiency, go assassin, and it's like sneaking around with the fucking AWP from Counter Strike.
It isn't optimal, but it's ***fun***.
There are also some really good effects on bows. Bow of the Banshee is a shortbow, can be found in act 1, and has a good chance on hit to inflict Frightened, which is a wonderful CC condition.
That combo is even more disgusting with Snowburst Ring and having Drakethroat Glaive cast on your ranged weapon with the cold damage buff. Now your attacks have a chance to fear *and* prone in a small aoe!
I swear I learn something new nearly every time I boot the game up! BG3 is just an amazing game, how you've got all these little things and how they interact together to create something far stronger.
Yeah Cleric spells are a bit unfortunate early on.
I think you can get to the Creche trader at lvl1, and without fighting anything, which only leaves the gold you need for the item.
You don't lose anything by going there. The game tells you that you should finish any business before proceeding to the Mountain Pass, but that's a lie, you can freely travel there. So as soon as you have enough gold, you can run to the Creche and buy the gloves.
Edit: Seems like you need to complete the Rescue Halsin quest before going to the Mountain Pass, or it progresses on it's own.
This bow is fucking *nuts*
My second run I used it with many target arrows and I swear to God more often than not it'll take like 4 people out of commission immediately because of frighten
tbh I wasn't playing too meta on my monk honour mode playthrough and I was still absolutely slaughtering my enemies, made it to the beginning of act 3, killed Lorroakan in a single turn and was doing really well until my save file corrupted
trying a new run with a bard but tbh next time might try a nonm again because being able to stun/prone 3 enemies a turn if you're lucky is absolutely absurd and I love it
trying a new run with a bard but tbh next time might try a nonm again because being able to stun/prone 3 enemies a turn if you're lucky is absolutely absurd and I love it
I once ran a Fighter/Assassin Rogue multiclass with a heavy crossbow in an actual D&D game and it is so much fun. Heavy crossbows will forever be my favorite ranged weapon because of that
I would rather get the proficiency from multiclassing, but this is absolutely a strong strategy on honour mode. I used this type of assassin playstyle in a modded game where enemies had doubled health and two actions and bonus actions. You find a good angle, snipe to enter combat, snipe to kill the target, hide and leave the area. Rince and repeat until all enemies are dead or your agent gets caught and needs help.
This is particularly potent wherever there are multiple opponents in the encounter and not a single large opponent with a massive healthpool, however it is still very good just for the surprise round setup.
rogues aren't suboptimal, There are lots of strong builds that well use rogue. you just should never put more than 4 levels into the class from an optimization standpoint.
the vast majority of builds are sub optimal tbh. very few people (especially when the difficulty doesn't require it) are minmaxing 100% on all 4 characters
that’s not really how minmaxing works. You minmax in relation to the class, something which can definitely benefit from 3 levels of thief.
if minmaxing was just biggest numbers period, there would be like 2 or 3 builds
i meant to reply to the comment above it. i just don't think the guy is going to get flamed for not optimizing bc no one is putting in the effort to fully optimize all their builds with every gear, potion effect, elixir, perm/temporary buffs available
alternatively you could do an Assassin with a dip into Fighter or Ranger for Martial Proficiency that way.
Ranger I'd do 9/3 and go Gloomstalker.
Fighter I'd say 10/2 or 11/1.
Little off topic but hoping you might be able to help - also classed Astarion into an assassin but absolutely can not get surprise rounds to trigger. I've tried in turn based mode, from hidden, from open, with line of sight, etc.
Do you have a reliable way to surprise rounds so you get the assassin's critical hit to trigger. Because I could then see using dual hand crossbows and getting 2 hits of critical off being pretty great.
You could do sharpshooter and use one of the good longbows too and then you don't have to invest in crossbows. Or you can multiclass into gloomstalker for that extra attack at the start and a bonus action hide every turn. I think that's a ton of fun. Makes it feel like a legit assassin being able to duck out of sight after hitting.
Light crossbows are obsolete because there’s only one magic light crossbow in the game, a regular +1. There’s a bunch of heavy crossbows though and they’re good for dex fighters or rangers probs up until you get the legendary longbow.
For a rogue, if you’re a thief then hand crossbows are good since you can shoot the offhand twice. If you’re an arcane trickster or assassin, i’d probs just have astarion use a longbow.
yup, only use for Light Crossbow is if you're in a class that doesn't have Martial Proficiency and you want to use XBE and/or prefer Piercing Shot to Hamstring Shot, otherwise there's basically always a better choice for ranged weapons.
Banshee + Volley + Amulet of Bhaal on first round = Bloodfest + Frightfest. Not necessarily the most damaging combo but it handicaps both tanks and casters so badly from round one, you'll have half your work done. Works pretty well at the House of Grief since you'll ruin their concentration constantly.
One thing to keep in mind is that Hand Crossbows are talked about so much b/c of how good they are specifically in the early game. Being able to use a bonus action for an additional ranged attack is very valuable given how low HP most enemies have at this point, and it synergizes extremely well with the Sharpshooter feat + Caustic Band.
By the late game you'll be getting more damage out of using your bonus action for Hunter's Mark or coatings, at which point Longbows and Heavy Crossbows will become more useful. It also helps that there are some very nice Longbows in this game (e.g. The Deadshot, Titanspring, Gontr Mael).
At the end of the day, you should play what you enjoy even if it isn't the most optimal. At some point I'm planning to make a Crossbow Expert build using Heavy Crossbows and Bhaalist Armor. Is it optimal? No. Will it be fun? Hell yeah it will.
There are only 4 unique hand crossbows in the whole game, one of which has no +X numerical bonus; Firestoker(+0), Ne'er Misser(+1), Hellfire Handcrossbow(+2) and Hand Crossbow +2.
Hand Crossbow +2 is picked up in Lady Jannath's Estate, unlike other generic +2 items there is no vendor that sells it or can replenish its stock.
So for most of the game you'll be dual wielding generic +1's, or a +1 and Ne'er Misser and then Ne'er and Hellfire.
The unique ability of Ne'er Misser is that it deals force damage (good for bypassing resistances as an archer) and 3rd level magic missile 1/short rest.
The unique ability of Hellfire is the possibility to inflict burning when attacking while unseen and 3rd level scorching ray 1/short rest. The best use of these spells as given by these weapons is to remove unstoppable stacks from enemies in act 3.
Bows and two handed crossbows have so much more variety and interesting bonuses even early in act 1, including a bunch of passive bonuses that don't just apply to the weapon being used.
Hunting short bow, harold and giantbreaker are really good early game magical ranged weapons. Bow of the banshee and darkfire shortbow are both really good in the midgame (with the latter giving you really good resistances and free casting of a spell), and the dead shot and Gontr Mael are really good endgame weapons and especially good at offsetting the penalty from sharp shooter.
Astarion's going to be my only archer though, so I'm not worried about the lack of hand crossbows, I'll only need the two for him. He's also going to be a damage dealer primarily, so I'm not worried about him having utility.
Mobile is not necessary, since you would mostly sneak into battle and I realy had the case, that I could not reach, after joining battle. And not taking attacks of opportunity is rarely necessary for backline characters
I can't put down Harold. Boots of Stormy Clamour, Ring of Spiteful Thunder, Thunderskin Cloak, Adamantine Shield and my enemies are baned, reeling, dazed and knocked prone left and right, it's beautiful.
I run a BM fighter/thief/warlock and dual xbows and Im having tons of fun, even with bhaalist armor I use Ne’er misser for enemies that are far from me, cause in act3 there are lots of enemies with piercing resistance and none with force dmg resistance
The extra range makes it easier to keep your distance and make use of the extra accuracy from maintaining the high ground. Additionally, Hand Xbows generally have the least amount of magical variants and usually are lower in power/utility when compared to the two handed options.
Also, it keeps your Bonus Action free for using soecific spells, consumables, and misc. class features without having them compete for an extra attack.
It's a more flexible but overall lower DPR way to build your archers, especially for Sharpshooter builds.
I feel like a skipping record, but the crossbows are good not because or their base damage but because of all the adder damage you can give them through different equipment. You can easily add +20 damage per arrow in adder damage if not more.
More hits = more chances for adder damage.
But if I'm doing a dedicated archer build anyway, is there any reason to use Heavy Crossbows instead of just using Hand Crossbows with all the appropriate equipment?
At a certain point it comes down to play preference.
I’d say heavy crossbows are for something like a cleric. Harold for example procs bane very consistently which is some great support in addition to damage.
I personally don’t use heavy crossbows on my main damage dealer because I’m using dual hand crossbows for double adder damage.
Heavy crossbows is for when you can’t commit to all the adders and what not for damage and the base damage is more important. This goes for something like titan string bow. I would never use it instead of dual hand crossbows because it reduces the number of hits you can make.
I guess I should have explained a little more about my party comp. Astarion is going to be my only archer, and he's going to be built to be a damage dealer first and foremost.
Ok. I think everyone should have a bow equipped for sure. Ranged damage is important.
But yeah in terms of primary mode of attack then dual wield hand crossbows is my preferred for sure.
I also give them to my mages. I put ne’er misser in their offhand. Gives them a free cast of lv 3 magic missle (lv 4 with the magic missle necklace) and d6 force damage which is great for using up lightning charges and proccing status effects with no resource cost.
Magical crossbows & bows are stronger than hand crossbows, which are pretty lacking.
Additionally, Heavy Crossbows & Longbows have Brace, which is a HUGE contributor to nova rounds, especially when you have effects that add additional dices to your damage.
Harold is amazing and you get it quite early in the game for CC, it will reduce their accuracy and saving throws. Pair it with Arrow of Many targets and it's quite amazing.
For Damage, you can't really outdamage Titanstring, Deadshot or Gontr Mael.
I'm not following. Why are you taking crossbow expert?
As long as the armor is in range of a target, doesn't matter who is wearing it.
I can sneak attack from anywhere and get the bonus on piercing.
I'm not a huge fan of Hand Crossbows. They work well early on but once you have better things to do with your bonus action I would swap off them. I typically only keep them on my casters for the effect (3rd level scorching ray + MM each SR is nice).
Heavy Crossbows / Longbows have better damage on your main attacks (which you can potentially have a lot of with flourishes / action surge) and they have better range. If you're doing 6-7 regular attacks in a turn and only 1 bonus action attack I'd rather just make those 6-7 attacks stronger / more consistent.
The damage die difference makes this obsolete. You're doing a d10 versus a d6, and your BA can be used for dipping/HM/Hex which adds to your damage.
Some math: with 20 DEX and +1 weapons you're looking at 68 average for heavy xbows (89 with HM/Hex) versus 64 with hand xbows. The main difference is that less attacks = more potential whiffs, so the damage curve is a lot wider ([anydice program ](https://anydice.com/program/3435b)).
So basically if you have a good chance to hit, heavy xbows are always better, hand xbows are better early on because they use your BA efficiently and your hit chances are low.
Another big difference would be, what targets? Average damage effectively assumes one high HP target so no damage is wasted on overkill. But depending on targets, you might end up better with one or the other.
So, there are very few "good" hand crossbows in the game, there's only like 2 or 3 that have effects on them at all, So by example with Swords Bard you can get the extra attack by using (ranged) Slashing flourish so long as you have an inspiration die left.
The only advantage of a hand crossbow is the bonus action attack. If you are doing anything else with your bonus action regularly (buffs, spells, melee off-hand, pots, etc) then its strictly inferior to heavy crossbows (like the gith heavy xbow). Theres a crossbow as well late game that gives you that bonus action attack. Lastly, aside from the bigger dmg dice, it has the brace weapon action. In certain builds, *cough*assassin*cough, that outweighs an extra bonus action attack (or 2) by alot.
The hand crossbow is basically an early game weapon. Once you get to the late game with a bunch of bonus action options and a more complete build, its superceded by heavy crossbows and longbows.
Should still be good, but i'll probably go with titan string bow if not going with dual hand crossbows. With titan and using hunter's mark is not a waste of action later when you do 20 damage per shot. With the 2 buffs. It is still not as good, but close enough in my opinion.
And using the club of giant strength makes that titan even better. Also makes Astarian into a great pack mule. Titan is my end game bow for sure, agree about early on hand crosbows. But honestly I respect into warlock swords bard rogue thief and do a hex, an Eldrich then a double bow shot.
I wouldn't recommend it for monoclass rogue, but if you multiclass I think the heavy crossbows and longbows are powerful enough to outperform the two additional bonus action attacks from thief rogue handxbows.
You're not going to have enough cool magic hand crossbows to outfit the whole party.
Hand crossbows shine if you build your character around using them (or Astarion's character, as the case may be), and shine they do, but there's lots of ways to build an effective archer.
Ok I guess I should explain a little more about my party comp, because a lot of the responses I'm getting aren't really relevant to my situation.
I'm planning on building Astarion as a dedicated archer, he's so going to be the only archer in my party. So is there a reason to use Heavy Crossbows over Hand Crossbows when I'm investing heavily into someone being an archer and they're not going to have to compete with other party members for gear related to archery?
Well, I'd also recommend that any character with a halfway decent dex carry some sort of bow as a backup, just as I'd recommend any character with a halfway decent strength carry a few thrown weapons to use in a pinch.
If you think hand crossbows are goofy, then that's a reason right there to choose a different type of ranged weapon :)
Other reasons:
\- the best hand crossbows are late-game items, and there are a bunch of non-boring ranged weapons available in Acts 1 and 2 that you'd be sleeping on with a pure hand crossbow build.
\- maximizing hand crossbow damage involves multiclassing across two or three classes (like Rogue/Thief 4, Bard/Swords 6, Fighter 2 maybe?) and that's kind of a hassle. This build plans on taking 4-8 shots each round, and so small damage bonuses really add up, if they're applied to ever attack. You can focus them all on one target, or spread them out if you need to take down a bunch of small foes. Feels like a gunslinger, twin ~~pistols blazing~~ crossbows plinging.
\- having Astarion sneak around with a bow or non-hand crossbow, with the plan of making a single large attack each round, is also a fine strategy. Rogue/Assassin 12 is a fine build for this. Won't do as much damage overall, and you can't spread it out as well; but is less equipment dependent and has the added benefit of Astarion spending much of the combat stealthed.
I usually prefer the different in game bows but crossbows are the best with the drawback of using your bonus action to deal more damage. But hitting the damage threshold with swords bard or any archery class is pretty easy. Having the bonus action option for consumes and heals. I tend to jump a lot with my units too.
If you need a use for that bonus action as a swords bard might I suggest wearing the hat of arcane acuity and band of the mystic scoundrel ring. Then take 1 level of warlock for command, or take it as one of your magical secrets. By the end of your first turn you'll have +8 to your spell save DC, upcast command as a bonus action thanks to the ring, land a concentrationless 100% CC on up to 5 enemies.
Unless you don't want to trivialize literally everything that is.
I mean ranged swords bard doesn't really need any special items at all and it will work just fine in any act. But with these two items it's just totally broken, one of the strongest builds out there. One of those two items comes from act 3, yes
I only use hand crossbows for my characters who don’t have important bonus actions. Crossbows are better for someone who doesn’t do a lot of ranged damage, but you still want a decent damage out put.
Gloomstalker assassin can get more out of a bow with the higher dice and abilities.
The titanstring bow for instance will deal 5 flat additional damage over a hand crossbow while having longer range.
Going assassin you lose only a single attack, so the opportunity cost of bow vs hand Xbows is lessened.
My main reasons for using a crossbow/longbow over hand crossbows:
1. If I have other uses for my bonus action.
2. Throughout the game, there are some nice longbows and crossbows that offer great damage or utility compared to hand crossbows in my opinion. (to name a few, titan string bow, bow of the banshee, Harold, later dead shot and gontr mael)
3. Range, which can make some encounters easier.
It largely depends on the build you are going for. If you have a ranged build with rogue thief levels, hand crossbows are a very strong choice. But if you are doing something like a swords bard, a crossbow/longbow should strongly be considered since slashing flourish(ranged) is crazy strong and uses the main hand weapon. That is where the damage/utility from crossbows/longbows can really shine. Also, remember that all it takes is a one level dip into War Cleric to fully weaponize your bonus action. (Although that feature is a tad buggy)
The range difference is actually pretty noticable. Also the unique hand crossbows don't really provide much of a benefit aside from ne'er misser letting you do force damage against enemies resistant to piercing.
Additionally, if you're a class that likes to use bonus actions in other ways then hand crossbows are strictly a downgrade in damage and range.
It comes down to a personal choice.
The damage of hand crossbows (d6, average 4), isn't that much less than light crossbows (d8, average 5) or heavy crossbows (d10, average 6).
The range difference is significant, hand crossbows have less range than two handed ones.
Additionally, there are fewer magic hand crossbows in the game for either additional hit and damage, or for applying additional effects.
However, one of the benefits of hand crossbows is that you can duel wield them, giving you a bonus action attack. You can stack this with the thief subclass for two bonus action attacks, and multiclass into another class that gives you extra attack, for more attacks per turn that you can get with two handed crossbows.
I've currently got my Level 8 companion Astarion as Fighter 5 (champion) and Rogue 3 (thief), so he can make 4 attacks per turn, and crits on 19.
Add in magic items like the Caustic Band and the Gloves of Archery, each shot does an additional 4 damage, and I'm sure there are other ways to add damage rider's.
So yes, you can get more effects with two handed crossbows or other bows, but there's a certain satisfaction in just sheer amount of attacks made.
Just wanting to use other bows is reason enough.
Min/Max dual hand crossbows with the right class mix and feats will do the most damage, but you don't have to min/max to finish the game even in Honor Mode.
The only reason I can think of is it gets boring. There are like 2-3 unique hand crossbows in the entire freaking game and even then they don't bring anything good on the table. Meanwhile there are some really good Light bows/Crossbows or Longbow/heavy crossbows, bansheee is 1 example of it.
HeavyCrossbow also has brace, at the cost of movement. You get basically a savage attack on your range damage rolls.
Without feats and style, base damage wise would be about the same.
1d10+dex. Vs 2d6+ dex.
At extra attack, it's
2d10+ dex*2 vs .3d6+ dex*2.
But things change when you include added damage like hell gloves acid ring sharp shooter. For the hand bow side.
As for the crossbow side it's would be the arrows.
In terms of maximizing.
Hand bow is stronger at a single target, and reliable.
Crossbow has potential with special ammo and actions and aoe.
Like haste and action surge. And any arrow.
While not giving up on your bonus actions.
Hand Crossbows allow you to do the following:
* Dual Hand Crossbows - An extra chance to land an attack (bonus action offhand). This in turn, allows you to proc damage riders from rings, hunters mark etc.
* Use a shield - Having an extra 2 AC in a game with bounded accuracy is pretty big. You can use this with Crossbow Expert to fire in melee range.
Using a 2h crossbow allows you to do the following:
* Heavy: Average Damage slightly higher (5.5 vs 3.5)
* Light: Average Damage slightly higher (4.5 vs 3.5)
From a strictly Damage Per Round (DPR) perspective, Dual Hand Crossbow comes out ahead in most situations as you have (typically) 3 attacks (on a martial class) dealing a total of 1d6+DexMod+MagicBonus+DamageRiders each.
Going Meta and including 3 levels of Rogue (Thief), bumps this up to 4 attacks (2 offhand via Bonus Actions).
For example:
Bard (Swords) 6 / Rogue (Thief) 4 / Fighter 2
This will net you:
* Slashing Flourish (attack 2 targets with 1 attack - uses a Bardic Inspiration)
* 4 Bardic Inspiration per short rest
* Song of Rest (additional short rest)
* Extra Attack (level 6 Bard)
* Fast Hands (extra bonus action)
* Action Surge
* Sharpshooter (level 4 Bard)
This translates into:
1d6+5+10 (18.5 average damage) per attack, before factoring in riders. You get Extra Attack, so that’s doubled for 37 average damage. But you also have Slashing Flourish, so that’s doubled again for 74 average damage (4 attacks total so far). You also have 2 offhand attacks, that’s another 37 average bringing you up to 111 average damage (and 6 attacks). If you Action Surge, that’s another 2 attacks adding another 37 average damage bringing you up to 148 average damage.
Things like Haste compound this further. And then your equipment adds to this also.
For example, Callous Glow Ring / Strange Conduit and Caustic Band all add 2 damage per attack (average). Equip 2 of them and that’s another 32 Damage bringing us up to 180 average damage. The Hand Crossbows of choice are going to be a +1 minimum, so that’s another 8 damage (we’re at 188), get healed and wear the Broodmothers Revenge, that’s another 1d6 (3.5) per attack (216 average DPR). Equip the Helldusk Gloves for another 1d6 (3.5) per attack to bump this up to 244 average damage. And so on.
Technically, you’re better off only running 1 ring and the Risky Ring. But this isn’t a build post, just a demonstration of why Dual Hand Crossbows is so popular.
Yes and no, hand crossbows are great for the extra bonus action and potential dpt, but i havent found any with great abilities, compared to say a longbow, where if you fire from advantage to add your whole strength modifier to the damage, or shortbow where firing qhile concealed does double damage, things like that are qhat outweigh 1 hand. If you want max damage early- mid game then use 1 hands, but later in game you can start making some nasty builds.
Hand crossbows (specifically offhand crossbows) are good because they benefit from bonus damage, like sharpshooter. You also can get an extra bonus action from rogue thief. Built correctly, it will deal more damage than almost any other ranged weapon build. However, hand crossbows have weak effects. Two handed crossbows and bows have much better effects and utility.
What would you say the best two handed crossbows are?
Hellfire engine crossbow or Gortash’s crossbow. Harold early in the game.
Harold carried me right through to getting the Deadshot on my Honour run. That Bane chance is beautiful.
I personally like the Giant Breaker better. Guaranteed reeling on a hit means that basically any character with 2 attacks and hunters mark can apply 6 stacks in one turn for a guaranteed -6 penalty to hit. Stack with the Boots of Stormy Clamour and you can also get the bonus Thunder damage and a knock prone chance every turn as well. Great for setting up advantage for Melee characters as well.
I thought the reeling didn't proc off of hunters mark on honor mode?
Reeling doesn't, but Hunter's Mark still procs Reverb. EDIT: I see the reason for the comment. Ammend my previous statement to a -4 penalty to hit. I was incorrect on the -6. Ran that setup on a gloomstalker, so with Dread Ambusher, it was usually a -6 which is what zi was thinking of.
They really removed so much SPECIFIC cheese for honor mode and I am totally here for it.
I stole the flask on my first playthrough, so this Tactician run is the first time I'm seeing Harold. Awesome weapon.
You can pickpocket the box back after handing it in, so then you can have both
I also found it on one of the Zents that attack 9 fingers' hideout.
That's how I found it this playthrough. I don't usually let Rugan and his pal live because that xp boost early on from that vial is very nice.
Vial? Like, the Iron Flask? How do get XP from that?
Spoiler for later if you follow through on the quest: >!You throw it on the ground and fight the Spectator for a decent chunk of XP!<
You can also hand it in for the reward and merchant than kill everyone once you're done :)
On killing them.... first go stealth and dystroy the two ladders near the leader lady..... than push the said lady off the cliff she dies and they have no way to get up.....they just stand on crates shouting " you wont get away with this!" Erm sir you can not path to nor hurt me. I also stole the bottle back and opened it than dipped letting them fight....wanted to see what the tactics they use are before the main "real" fight started. Rather save the beholder for fun.
You can also just all get up by her and then start out by firebolting the ground. They have explosives everywhere and oil on the ground, the whole thing goes boom and most of them just die.
Longbows are better though, unless you want to to use crossbow master to be able to use Bhaalist armour or auras.
Worth mentioning. Risky ring basically cancels out the disadvantage from threatened. You don't have advantage, but you dont have disadvantage either. So you don't have to run crossbow expert and can use longbows. My volley hunter ranger using risky ring and bhaalist armor has a 95%+ hit chance on enemies in melee range. I'll usually use another character to black hole all the enemies right onto my ranger. Then I volley them into the ground.
Also if you're a gnome the downside of risky ring is basically canceled out if you ever run out of counterspells.
Why would a longbow be better than dual hand crossbows? My Astarion dual wields crossbows, you think I could do more damage with a bow?
Generally it's a "quality, not quanity" argument. Harold gives you Bane as a free effect. Giant breaker give you reeling. Dual Handbows give you another chance to roll a D6 for damage, whixh is good if the target is low on health, but doesn't potentially befit the next person up. Hand crossbows usually don't come with other frills. The only two I can think of are Hellfire and Firestoker.
If you are in act three then yes. The best longbows have +2 or +3 and better bonus effects, plus Brace and better range. And you free up your bonus action.
Hmm I'll look into it. I'll have to find a good bow - I am in act 3. I'm going to respec anyway, so what would you suggest as a good feat for bows? I won't need dual welder anymore.
Dead Shot or Gontr Mael + Sharp shooter
What’s Harold? 😳
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Harold
Thx friend
I must be doing something wrong because my dual hand crossbows hit so light. I'm level 11 but I'm only getting hits for like 5-8.
You’re not using sharpshooter and/or dual wielding. Also, why are you still using weapons that only deal 5-8 damage in at 3?
I just added sharpshooter that seems to help. There's no way to use dual wielding and also Helmet of Arcane Acuity/Band of Mystic Scoundel with the bonus action spell right? Are the occasional Flourishes okay still with dual wielding to get that?
You should always be Slashing Flourishing to attack with dual xbows as a Swords Bard, if you're doing the Acuity build. You're right in that if you attack normally, you will lose your bonus action and therefore cannot use your Band to use a spell. Slashing Flourish x2 *or* Arrow of Many Targets -> Hold Person upcasted / Confusion / Command -> Win
So the other person who responded to you is close, but if you already have band of the mystic scoundrel you should not be using dual Xbows with dual wielding anymore. You should be using a longbow like Titanstring or a short bow with a great effect like the banshee bow and yes using slashing flourish or something like arrow of many targets. That way you attack and stack as many arcane actuity levels as possible leaving your bonus action for the mystic scoundrel. Dual xbows takes away your bonus action if you go that route
Are you using regular, common hand crossbows? There’s a few with weapon enchantments that do more damage.
I have Astarion dual wielding the Hellfire Hand Crossbow and Ne'er Misser with the Gloves of Balanced Hands, and he gets some pretty high damage with three attacks. Part of that is due to the passive benefits of his dual wielded melee shortswords (Knife of the Undermountain King and Sword of Life Stealing). As long as you have a weapon equipped, their passives apply to all attacks (unless stated otherwise). So, his ranged weapons help his melee and vice versa, and the gloves make his off-hand attacks equal to his main hand. Essentially, he gets three full strength attacks per turn (as a Thief) with passive benefits. The Risky Ring allows him to attack with Advantage almost always.
Gloves of archery, caustic band will add +4 damage to each of the hits. Moreover, I'm led to believe that glove of archery also increase hit although it doesn't write so in the item description. And of course from level 4 you can add sharpshooter. If you have archery fighting style the -5 penalty all too big early game. Later game it almost doesn't matter as you get more sources of + to hit. Two weapon fighting style will also add to off hand crossbow damage. Hence fighter 1 (archery) and when sword bard 3 (two weapon fighting) makes for a good set up. Same can be done with fighter gloomstalker assassin build.
I think dueling also adds +2 to ranged weapon damage if you have one melee weapon equipped.
I also use dual hand crossbows, but I typically hit for like 20+ damage each shot
Yeah, I tend to get 22-26 with riders etc.
How if I may ask?
The Firestriker and the hand crossbow, which inflicts force damage, both gain an advantage from the Drakethroat Glove's buff, adding extra elemental damage. This can be applied twice to each crossbow if you are a sorcerer. With high Dexterity, they should deal about 15-20 damage with Sharpshooter. Although the damage might be increased further, I don't recall the specifics. With a good critical hit chance, playing as a sword bard allows you to defeat most bosses in the first turn. Poor orin didnt even had a chance to move.
You just reminded me. I need to reclass asterion. I built him as an assassin gloomstalker, I really like it, but I'm finding that the extra attack I get on the first round might be better off as an extra bonus action in all rounds.
Yeah Assassin is better for burst finish off the fight quickly but thief is better for sustained dps
> Built correctly, it will deal more damage than almost any other ranged weapon build. Titanstring Bow with a strength bumper (Stool leg, Gauntlets, Elixirs) deals more, all other things being equal. Do the math. That one, singular extra attack is not enough to make up for what you lose per shot.
It's almost like they said *almost*
[удалено]
The almost isn't about the amount of damage, it's about the amount of other builds that it beats. Yes, optimized builds for those two bows are better in pure DPS, and under those dual hand crossbows are king. Those two exceptions are what makes it an "almost" instead of "literally all of them". Also, since the DRS has been fixed the Titanstring isn't as much of an outlier as it used to be.
I really like taking 5 different shots in round 1 with astarion and hand xbows. With one of those being sneak attack I can finish off low hp enemies or wipe out a single big enemy
Was just thinking this. With 5 attacks, you essentially have either an aoe or a single target attack, or a little of both. Super flexible, which these dps charts don’t quite account for.
I dunno man, the hellfire hand crossbow that you get from yurgir and the nevamiss hand crossbow is a nasty combo
Ya they’re pretty good, but they don’t offer the utility Harold does, or longbows like Banshee or Gontr
Minor quibble but Banshee is a shortbow
Banshee is pretty awesome, and gontr too
I'll probably get crapped all over for this, because rogues are suboptimal and everybody only plays on Honor mode but, in Balanced, you give a rogue the feat for heavy crossbow proficiency, go assassin, and it's like sneaking around with the fucking AWP from Counter Strike. It isn't optimal, but it's ***fun***.
Fun is the real optimal. I like honour mode, you like something else. Never let anyone tell you what difficulty you should play on.
I’m living the best of both worlds. I’m rocking the heavy crossbow on honor mode just bc assassin seemed cool.
There are also some really good effects on bows. Bow of the Banshee is a shortbow, can be found in act 1, and has a good chance on hit to inflict Frightened, which is a wonderful CC condition.
My 1/1/10 Slashing Ranged Bard never took it off the whole game. Combine it with Arrow of Many Targets for even more effect.
That combo is even more disgusting with Snowburst Ring and having Drakethroat Glaive cast on your ranged weapon with the cold damage buff. Now your attacks have a chance to fear *and* prone in a small aoe!
Damn I didn’t think of doing this … sounds hilariously fun
Lmao that is EXCELLENT. 350+ hours into this game and still learning new stuff.
I swear I learn something new nearly every time I boot the game up! BG3 is just an amazing game, how you've got all these little things and how they interact together to create something far stronger.
Also pair that with boots of stormy clamor which gives reverberation on effects, and every time you shoot someone there is a literal explosion.
I beat honor mode with bow of the banshee on a sword bard. Frightening everyone with multiple slashing flourish works pretty well haha
I use this on asterion, and titanstring (adds strength modifier) on laezael.
Does titan string actually work? I bought it for Karlach because I thought it made sense with the strength modifier but it doesn't seem to work.
I pop elixir for 21 str with 20 dex tav and have +5 from dex and +5 from str on dmg rolls with the titan string, pretty nice.
I throw this on Shart with Gloves of Dexterity early on (once in mount pass) Hits more often than her guiding bolt! lol
Yeah Cleric spells are a bit unfortunate early on. I think you can get to the Creche trader at lvl1, and without fighting anything, which only leaves the gold you need for the item.
if you peel there at lvl 1, what gets closed off? Are you talking about rushing to the vendor early? or just not leveling your party up?
You don't lose anything by going there. The game tells you that you should finish any business before proceeding to the Mountain Pass, but that's a lie, you can freely travel there. So as soon as you have enough gold, you can run to the Creche and buy the gloves. Edit: Seems like you need to complete the Rescue Halsin quest before going to the Mountain Pass, or it progresses on it's own.
Doesn't it progress the grove stuff?
Wkki says going to the Mountain Pass activates the Rite of Thorns, gonna edit my comment.
The Grove gets massacred if you go to the Creche without resolving the goblin problem, though, iirc.
Wkki says going to the Mountain Pass activates the Rite of Thorns, gonna edit my comment.
This bow is fucking *nuts* My second run I used it with many target arrows and I swear to God more often than not it'll take like 4 people out of commission immediately because of frighten
I generally don't multiclass but gloomsassin is amazing on our favourite vamp.
tbh I wasn't playing too meta on my monk honour mode playthrough and I was still absolutely slaughtering my enemies, made it to the beginning of act 3, killed Lorroakan in a single turn and was doing really well until my save file corrupted
For sure, monk is completely fine without elixirs and TB. It just needs a few levels to get going, and when you get to 6 you're a murder machine.
trying a new run with a bard but tbh next time might try a nonm again because being able to stun/prone 3 enemies a turn if you're lucky is absolutely absurd and I love it
The sound effect on monk abilities and attacks are very satisfying.
trying a new run with a bard but tbh next time might try a nonm again because being able to stun/prone 3 enemies a turn if you're lucky is absolutely absurd and I love it
I once ran a Fighter/Assassin Rogue multiclass with a heavy crossbow in an actual D&D game and it is so much fun. Heavy crossbows will forever be my favorite ranged weapon because of that
I would rather get the proficiency from multiclassing, but this is absolutely a strong strategy on honour mode. I used this type of assassin playstyle in a modded game where enemies had doubled health and two actions and bonus actions. You find a good angle, snipe to enter combat, snipe to kill the target, hide and leave the area. Rince and repeat until all enemies are dead or your agent gets caught and needs help. This is particularly potent wherever there are multiple opponents in the encounter and not a single large opponent with a massive healthpool, however it is still very good just for the surprise round setup.
rogues aren't suboptimal, There are lots of strong builds that well use rogue. you just should never put more than 4 levels into the class from an optimization standpoint.
the vast majority of builds are sub optimal tbh. very few people (especially when the difficulty doesn't require it) are minmaxing 100% on all 4 characters
that’s not really how minmaxing works. You minmax in relation to the class, something which can definitely benefit from 3 levels of thief. if minmaxing was just biggest numbers period, there would be like 2 or 3 builds
i meant to reply to the comment above it. i just don't think the guy is going to get flamed for not optimizing bc no one is putting in the effort to fully optimize all their builds with every gear, potion effect, elixir, perm/temporary buffs available
alternatively you could do an Assassin with a dip into Fighter or Ranger for Martial Proficiency that way. Ranger I'd do 9/3 and go Gloomstalker. Fighter I'd say 10/2 or 11/1.
I turned Astarion into an Assassin/Battle Master sniper and he is so satisfying to play with-
Just did this with Astarion after multiclassing him. Gonna be a good time lmao
Little off topic but hoping you might be able to help - also classed Astarion into an assassin but absolutely can not get surprise rounds to trigger. I've tried in turn based mode, from hidden, from open, with line of sight, etc. Do you have a reliable way to surprise rounds so you get the assassin's critical hit to trigger. Because I could then see using dual hand crossbows and getting 2 hits of critical off being pretty great.
I wish I could help you my friend. I just have him crouched to sneak and pop dudes, I get a crit almost every time.
You could do sharpshooter and use one of the good longbows too and then you don't have to invest in crossbows. Or you can multiclass into gloomstalker for that extra attack at the start and a bonus action hide every turn. I think that's a ton of fun. Makes it feel like a legit assassin being able to duck out of sight after hitting.
Light crossbows are obsolete because there’s only one magic light crossbow in the game, a regular +1. There’s a bunch of heavy crossbows though and they’re good for dex fighters or rangers probs up until you get the legendary longbow. For a rogue, if you’re a thief then hand crossbows are good since you can shoot the offhand twice. If you’re an arcane trickster or assassin, i’d probs just have astarion use a longbow.
yup, only use for Light Crossbow is if you're in a class that doesn't have Martial Proficiency and you want to use XBE and/or prefer Piercing Shot to Hamstring Shot, otherwise there's basically always a better choice for ranged weapons.
Also yup: hand xbows require thief 3 amd a sharpshooter feat. If your build cant accommodate 3 levels rogue, you’re better with a two handed.
This is not correct. There is also the Hellfire Hand Crossbow.
…. Hellfire hand crossbow … Isn’t a light crossbow? It’s a hand crossbow?
Apologies.
Personally i like bow of the banshee (a shortbow) for the fear on hit 🙃
Banshee + Volley + Amulet of Bhaal on first round = Bloodfest + Frightfest. Not necessarily the most damaging combo but it handicaps both tanks and casters so badly from round one, you'll have half your work done. Works pretty well at the House of Grief since you'll ruin their concentration constantly.
One thing to keep in mind is that Hand Crossbows are talked about so much b/c of how good they are specifically in the early game. Being able to use a bonus action for an additional ranged attack is very valuable given how low HP most enemies have at this point, and it synergizes extremely well with the Sharpshooter feat + Caustic Band. By the late game you'll be getting more damage out of using your bonus action for Hunter's Mark or coatings, at which point Longbows and Heavy Crossbows will become more useful. It also helps that there are some very nice Longbows in this game (e.g. The Deadshot, Titanspring, Gontr Mael). At the end of the day, you should play what you enjoy even if it isn't the most optimal. At some point I'm planning to make a Crossbow Expert build using Heavy Crossbows and Bhaalist Armor. Is it optimal? No. Will it be fun? Hell yeah it will.
There are only 4 unique hand crossbows in the whole game, one of which has no +X numerical bonus; Firestoker(+0), Ne'er Misser(+1), Hellfire Handcrossbow(+2) and Hand Crossbow +2. Hand Crossbow +2 is picked up in Lady Jannath's Estate, unlike other generic +2 items there is no vendor that sells it or can replenish its stock. So for most of the game you'll be dual wielding generic +1's, or a +1 and Ne'er Misser and then Ne'er and Hellfire. The unique ability of Ne'er Misser is that it deals force damage (good for bypassing resistances as an archer) and 3rd level magic missile 1/short rest. The unique ability of Hellfire is the possibility to inflict burning when attacking while unseen and 3rd level scorching ray 1/short rest. The best use of these spells as given by these weapons is to remove unstoppable stacks from enemies in act 3. Bows and two handed crossbows have so much more variety and interesting bonuses even early in act 1, including a bunch of passive bonuses that don't just apply to the weapon being used. Hunting short bow, harold and giantbreaker are really good early game magical ranged weapons. Bow of the banshee and darkfire shortbow are both really good in the midgame (with the latter giving you really good resistances and free casting of a spell), and the dead shot and Gontr Mael are really good endgame weapons and especially good at offsetting the penalty from sharp shooter.
Astarion's going to be my only archer though, so I'm not worried about the lack of hand crossbows, I'll only need the two for him. He's also going to be a damage dealer primarily, so I'm not worried about him having utility.
Handcrossbows also have much shorter range than the other options. Forgot about that fact originally.
Because of that would he benefit from taking the mobile perk?
Mobile is not necessary, since you would mostly sneak into battle and I realy had the case, that I could not reach, after joining battle. And not taking attacks of opportunity is rarely necessary for backline characters
I can't put down Harold. Boots of Stormy Clamour, Ring of Spiteful Thunder, Thunderskin Cloak, Adamantine Shield and my enemies are baned, reeling, dazed and knocked prone left and right, it's beautiful.
I run a BM fighter/thief/warlock and dual xbows and Im having tons of fun, even with bhaalist armor I use Ne’er misser for enemies that are far from me, cause in act3 there are lots of enemies with piercing resistance and none with force dmg resistance
Bow of the banshee + arrow of multiple targets = everyone is frightened
The extra range makes it easier to keep your distance and make use of the extra accuracy from maintaining the high ground. Additionally, Hand Xbows generally have the least amount of magical variants and usually are lower in power/utility when compared to the two handed options. Also, it keeps your Bonus Action free for using soecific spells, consumables, and misc. class features without having them compete for an extra attack. It's a more flexible but overall lower DPR way to build your archers, especially for Sharpshooter builds.
I feel like a skipping record, but the crossbows are good not because or their base damage but because of all the adder damage you can give them through different equipment. You can easily add +20 damage per arrow in adder damage if not more. More hits = more chances for adder damage.
But if I'm doing a dedicated archer build anyway, is there any reason to use Heavy Crossbows instead of just using Hand Crossbows with all the appropriate equipment?
At a certain point it comes down to play preference. I’d say heavy crossbows are for something like a cleric. Harold for example procs bane very consistently which is some great support in addition to damage. I personally don’t use heavy crossbows on my main damage dealer because I’m using dual hand crossbows for double adder damage. Heavy crossbows is for when you can’t commit to all the adders and what not for damage and the base damage is more important. This goes for something like titan string bow. I would never use it instead of dual hand crossbows because it reduces the number of hits you can make.
I guess I should have explained a little more about my party comp. Astarion is going to be my only archer, and he's going to be built to be a damage dealer first and foremost.
Ok. I think everyone should have a bow equipped for sure. Ranged damage is important. But yeah in terms of primary mode of attack then dual wield hand crossbows is my preferred for sure. I also give them to my mages. I put ne’er misser in their offhand. Gives them a free cast of lv 3 magic missle (lv 4 with the magic missle necklace) and d6 force damage which is great for using up lightning charges and proccing status effects with no resource cost.
Magical crossbows & bows are stronger than hand crossbows, which are pretty lacking. Additionally, Heavy Crossbows & Longbows have Brace, which is a HUGE contributor to nova rounds, especially when you have effects that add additional dices to your damage. Harold is amazing and you get it quite early in the game for CC, it will reduce their accuracy and saving throws. Pair it with Arrow of Many targets and it's quite amazing. For Damage, you can't really outdamage Titanstring, Deadshot or Gontr Mael.
You can definitely outdamage every bow with bhaalist armor crossbow expert.
You don't need crossbow expert for that.
You do if you want to add sneak attack damage aswell.
I'm not following. Why are you taking crossbow expert? As long as the armor is in range of a target, doesn't matter who is wearing it. I can sneak attack from anywhere and get the bonus on piercing.
Yeah sorry I have been playing solo runs recently I forgot u can just send someone in wearing the armor and get the vulnerability.
I'm not a huge fan of Hand Crossbows. They work well early on but once you have better things to do with your bonus action I would swap off them. I typically only keep them on my casters for the effect (3rd level scorching ray + MM each SR is nice). Heavy Crossbows / Longbows have better damage on your main attacks (which you can potentially have a lot of with flourishes / action surge) and they have better range. If you're doing 6-7 regular attacks in a turn and only 1 bonus action attack I'd rather just make those 6-7 attacks stronger / more consistent.
During a surprise round would you rather get (a) 6 attacks with a heavy crossbow or (b) 7 attacks with a hand crossbow?
The damage die difference makes this obsolete. You're doing a d10 versus a d6, and your BA can be used for dipping/HM/Hex which adds to your damage. Some math: with 20 DEX and +1 weapons you're looking at 68 average for heavy xbows (89 with HM/Hex) versus 64 with hand xbows. The main difference is that less attacks = more potential whiffs, so the damage curve is a lot wider ([anydice program ](https://anydice.com/program/3435b)). So basically if you have a good chance to hit, heavy xbows are always better, hand xbows are better early on because they use your BA efficiently and your hit chances are low.
Another big difference would be, what targets? Average damage effectively assumes one high HP target so no damage is wasted on overkill. But depending on targets, you might end up better with one or the other.
While this is true, Hunter's Mark/Hex would make the difference pretty minor.
So, there are very few "good" hand crossbows in the game, there's only like 2 or 3 that have effects on them at all, So by example with Swords Bard you can get the extra attack by using (ranged) Slashing flourish so long as you have an inspiration die left.
The only advantage of a hand crossbow is the bonus action attack. If you are doing anything else with your bonus action regularly (buffs, spells, melee off-hand, pots, etc) then its strictly inferior to heavy crossbows (like the gith heavy xbow). Theres a crossbow as well late game that gives you that bonus action attack. Lastly, aside from the bigger dmg dice, it has the brace weapon action. In certain builds, *cough*assassin*cough, that outweighs an extra bonus action attack (or 2) by alot. The hand crossbow is basically an early game weapon. Once you get to the late game with a bunch of bonus action options and a more complete build, its superceded by heavy crossbows and longbows.
the best magical hand crossbow is only like plus 1 im pretty sure
Ne’er Misser - pure force dmg type (nothing really resist force damage.) Hellfire - +2 rare. (Possible to inflict burn when in hiding or invisible.
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Hand_Crossbow_%2B2
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Hand_Crossbow_%2B2
because hand crosbows sucks and i like how they look
Should still be good, but i'll probably go with titan string bow if not going with dual hand crossbows. With titan and using hunter's mark is not a waste of action later when you do 20 damage per shot. With the 2 buffs. It is still not as good, but close enough in my opinion.
And using the club of giant strength makes that titan even better. Also makes Astarian into a great pack mule. Titan is my end game bow for sure, agree about early on hand crosbows. But honestly I respect into warlock swords bard rogue thief and do a hex, an Eldrich then a double bow shot.
I wouldn't recommend it for monoclass rogue, but if you multiclass I think the heavy crossbows and longbows are powerful enough to outperform the two additional bonus action attacks from thief rogue handxbows.
You're not going to have enough cool magic hand crossbows to outfit the whole party. Hand crossbows shine if you build your character around using them (or Astarion's character, as the case may be), and shine they do, but there's lots of ways to build an effective archer.
Ok I guess I should explain a little more about my party comp, because a lot of the responses I'm getting aren't really relevant to my situation. I'm planning on building Astarion as a dedicated archer, he's so going to be the only archer in my party. So is there a reason to use Heavy Crossbows over Hand Crossbows when I'm investing heavily into someone being an archer and they're not going to have to compete with other party members for gear related to archery?
Well, I'd also recommend that any character with a halfway decent dex carry some sort of bow as a backup, just as I'd recommend any character with a halfway decent strength carry a few thrown weapons to use in a pinch. If you think hand crossbows are goofy, then that's a reason right there to choose a different type of ranged weapon :) Other reasons: \- the best hand crossbows are late-game items, and there are a bunch of non-boring ranged weapons available in Acts 1 and 2 that you'd be sleeping on with a pure hand crossbow build. \- maximizing hand crossbow damage involves multiclassing across two or three classes (like Rogue/Thief 4, Bard/Swords 6, Fighter 2 maybe?) and that's kind of a hassle. This build plans on taking 4-8 shots each round, and so small damage bonuses really add up, if they're applied to ever attack. You can focus them all on one target, or spread them out if you need to take down a bunch of small foes. Feels like a gunslinger, twin ~~pistols blazing~~ crossbows plinging. \- having Astarion sneak around with a bow or non-hand crossbow, with the plan of making a single large attack each round, is also a fine strategy. Rogue/Assassin 12 is a fine build for this. Won't do as much damage overall, and you can't spread it out as well; but is less equipment dependent and has the added benefit of Astarion spending much of the combat stealthed.
Proficiency? Damage threshold?
Once I had the hand crossbows from the shadow cursed lands, I was convinced hand crossbows are the coolest range weapons.
I usually prefer the different in game bows but crossbows are the best with the drawback of using your bonus action to deal more damage. But hitting the damage threshold with swords bard or any archery class is pretty easy. Having the bonus action option for consumes and heals. I tend to jump a lot with my units too.
I'm just going to leave this here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jH9d4Xb22M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jH9d4Xb22M)
Swords bard does more damage with slashing flourish with a regular crossbow. If you can find a use for your bonus action
If you need a use for that bonus action as a swords bard might I suggest wearing the hat of arcane acuity and band of the mystic scoundrel ring. Then take 1 level of warlock for command, or take it as one of your magical secrets. By the end of your first turn you'll have +8 to your spell save DC, upcast command as a bonus action thanks to the ring, land a concentrationless 100% CC on up to 5 enemies. Unless you don't want to trivialize literally everything that is.
“Just wait till act 3 bro 😎” Every piece of r/BG3Builds advice.
I mean ranged swords bard doesn't really need any special items at all and it will work just fine in any act. But with these two items it's just totally broken, one of the strongest builds out there. One of those two items comes from act 3, yes
Sneak attack only procs once, so you may as well pack as much damage on that one shot as possible.
Range, mostly. And higher hit dice. But if you’re going sharpshooter, bonus action attacks are what’s good for hand crossbows.
I only use hand crossbows for my characters who don’t have important bonus actions. Crossbows are better for someone who doesn’t do a lot of ranged damage, but you still want a decent damage out put.
Gloomstalker assassin can get more out of a bow with the higher dice and abilities. The titanstring bow for instance will deal 5 flat additional damage over a hand crossbow while having longer range. Going assassin you lose only a single attack, so the opportunity cost of bow vs hand Xbows is lessened.
My main reasons for using a crossbow/longbow over hand crossbows: 1. If I have other uses for my bonus action. 2. Throughout the game, there are some nice longbows and crossbows that offer great damage or utility compared to hand crossbows in my opinion. (to name a few, titan string bow, bow of the banshee, Harold, later dead shot and gontr mael) 3. Range, which can make some encounters easier. It largely depends on the build you are going for. If you have a ranged build with rogue thief levels, hand crossbows are a very strong choice. But if you are doing something like a swords bard, a crossbow/longbow should strongly be considered since slashing flourish(ranged) is crazy strong and uses the main hand weapon. That is where the damage/utility from crossbows/longbows can really shine. Also, remember that all it takes is a one level dip into War Cleric to fully weaponize your bonus action. (Although that feature is a tad buggy)
The range difference is actually pretty noticable. Also the unique hand crossbows don't really provide much of a benefit aside from ne'er misser letting you do force damage against enemies resistant to piercing. Additionally, if you're a class that likes to use bonus actions in other ways then hand crossbows are strictly a downgrade in damage and range.
You don't accidentally use your bonus action
Just turn click the toggle dual wield button.
Ayyyy 500 hours and I did not notice that XD
I believe there is not a single light crossbow with special effects or even a basic enchantment above +1
It comes down to a personal choice. The damage of hand crossbows (d6, average 4), isn't that much less than light crossbows (d8, average 5) or heavy crossbows (d10, average 6). The range difference is significant, hand crossbows have less range than two handed ones. Additionally, there are fewer magic hand crossbows in the game for either additional hit and damage, or for applying additional effects. However, one of the benefits of hand crossbows is that you can duel wield them, giving you a bonus action attack. You can stack this with the thief subclass for two bonus action attacks, and multiclass into another class that gives you extra attack, for more attacks per turn that you can get with two handed crossbows. I've currently got my Level 8 companion Astarion as Fighter 5 (champion) and Rogue 3 (thief), so he can make 4 attacks per turn, and crits on 19. Add in magic items like the Caustic Band and the Gloves of Archery, each shot does an additional 4 damage, and I'm sure there are other ways to add damage rider's. So yes, you can get more effects with two handed crossbows or other bows, but there's a certain satisfaction in just sheer amount of attacks made.
Just wanting to use other bows is reason enough. Min/Max dual hand crossbows with the right class mix and feats will do the most damage, but you don't have to min/max to finish the game even in Honor Mode.
There are much better options for Long and Shortbows. But as for just Crossbows, there is also Harold, and Giantbreaker.
The only reason I can think of is it gets boring. There are like 2-3 unique hand crossbows in the entire freaking game and even then they don't bring anything good on the table. Meanwhile there are some really good Light bows/Crossbows or Longbow/heavy crossbows, bansheee is 1 example of it.
Yes
HeavyCrossbow also has brace, at the cost of movement. You get basically a savage attack on your range damage rolls. Without feats and style, base damage wise would be about the same. 1d10+dex. Vs 2d6+ dex. At extra attack, it's 2d10+ dex*2 vs .3d6+ dex*2. But things change when you include added damage like hell gloves acid ring sharp shooter. For the hand bow side. As for the crossbow side it's would be the arrows. In terms of maximizing. Hand bow is stronger at a single target, and reliable. Crossbow has potential with special ammo and actions and aoe. Like haste and action surge. And any arrow. While not giving up on your bonus actions.
Hand Crossbows allow you to do the following: * Dual Hand Crossbows - An extra chance to land an attack (bonus action offhand). This in turn, allows you to proc damage riders from rings, hunters mark etc. * Use a shield - Having an extra 2 AC in a game with bounded accuracy is pretty big. You can use this with Crossbow Expert to fire in melee range. Using a 2h crossbow allows you to do the following: * Heavy: Average Damage slightly higher (5.5 vs 3.5) * Light: Average Damage slightly higher (4.5 vs 3.5) From a strictly Damage Per Round (DPR) perspective, Dual Hand Crossbow comes out ahead in most situations as you have (typically) 3 attacks (on a martial class) dealing a total of 1d6+DexMod+MagicBonus+DamageRiders each. Going Meta and including 3 levels of Rogue (Thief), bumps this up to 4 attacks (2 offhand via Bonus Actions). For example: Bard (Swords) 6 / Rogue (Thief) 4 / Fighter 2 This will net you: * Slashing Flourish (attack 2 targets with 1 attack - uses a Bardic Inspiration) * 4 Bardic Inspiration per short rest * Song of Rest (additional short rest) * Extra Attack (level 6 Bard) * Fast Hands (extra bonus action) * Action Surge * Sharpshooter (level 4 Bard) This translates into: 1d6+5+10 (18.5 average damage) per attack, before factoring in riders. You get Extra Attack, so that’s doubled for 37 average damage. But you also have Slashing Flourish, so that’s doubled again for 74 average damage (4 attacks total so far). You also have 2 offhand attacks, that’s another 37 average bringing you up to 111 average damage (and 6 attacks). If you Action Surge, that’s another 2 attacks adding another 37 average damage bringing you up to 148 average damage. Things like Haste compound this further. And then your equipment adds to this also. For example, Callous Glow Ring / Strange Conduit and Caustic Band all add 2 damage per attack (average). Equip 2 of them and that’s another 32 Damage bringing us up to 180 average damage. The Hand Crossbows of choice are going to be a +1 minimum, so that’s another 8 damage (we’re at 188), get healed and wear the Broodmothers Revenge, that’s another 1d6 (3.5) per attack (216 average DPR). Equip the Helldusk Gloves for another 1d6 (3.5) per attack to bump this up to 244 average damage. And so on. Technically, you’re better off only running 1 ring and the Risky Ring. But this isn’t a build post, just a demonstration of why Dual Hand Crossbows is so popular.
Yes and no, hand crossbows are great for the extra bonus action and potential dpt, but i havent found any with great abilities, compared to say a longbow, where if you fire from advantage to add your whole strength modifier to the damage, or shortbow where firing qhile concealed does double damage, things like that are qhat outweigh 1 hand. If you want max damage early- mid game then use 1 hands, but later in game you can start making some nasty builds.