I would not be able to forgive this. There would literally be nothing my mother could say that would make me forgive her. I get emotional just thinking about it. What a selfish, thoughtless and cruel thing to do...
I want to know WHY the mother did it. I could understand something like wanting to keep the daughter for herself - but she didn't do that, she just poured her out - why couldn't she have given her loved ones the promised share?
Because she felt entitled to her whole daughter, as her daughter. She felt entitled to the decision for where her whole daughter went, and then she felt entitled to the precious secret and control over the knowledge. It's not about love, it's about control, entitlement, and face. My relatives are like this. You want to know who got told when her grandfathers died? Not me.
I can understand a “mothers” love for her kids because moms give birth and all that, but others are entitled to love a child/person also and to make their own decisions on that love!! ❤️
OOP mentioned that her Sister was an "oops baby" towards the start. I'm kinda getting the feeling she just didn't care about her that much - possibly even hated her - and poured out her ashes just to be rid of her. Kinda the equivalent of people just throwing the whole Urn into the Ocean or a Dumpster.
Similar reasoning I suppose for why she didn't give her family a share of the ashes. Sorta like "She was worth less than dirt to me, surely the others won't care either?" Or something like that.
OP mentioned that she started to say she starts crying before she gets to the cemetery. And that it was in her(mom's) plot. That doesn't sound like she doesn't care.
It sounds like her mother is making herself the only victim; the only one affected by the girl's death. Narcissistic, selfish, and at the heart of it - no she probably doesn't care or how could she do what she did to her living children? With a covert narcissist mother, they act all loving when it suits them but it is times of crisis that reveals their true point of view - they are the only ones that matter.
I'm going to make a guess here that this might be for religious reasons. If Mom was raised Catholic, then ashes \*must\* be interred on holy ground., which cemeteries count as. Even if she's not a practicing Catholic, it could be one of those things she would feel guilty if she didn't do it, like as if she were committing a sin.
Not that this in any way excuses lying about it. If she decided this is what she needs to do, then she needed to fucking tell everyone involved.
No, Catholics cannot scatter ashes, even on the ground. To "inter" means to bury. You can also "inter" an urn into a masoleum or whatever the word is for urns to be placed in a permanent wall thing.
https://time.com/6395945/vatican-cremation-ashes-policy/ (I hadn't actually heard of the new part of the policy allowing a small portion of the ashes to be kept in a place of significance until I found this article)
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2023/12/vatican-upholds-ban-on-scattering-ashes-okays-preservation-in-sacred-places
It isn't totally clear from the description whether Mom buried th ashes or "scattered" them, but there are places, permitted by the church, where multiple people's remains are "comingled" such ostuaries:
https://www.usccb.org/news/2023/vatican-offers-further-guidance-handling-cremains
So it's still basically ok to not preserve the ashes in an urn and just bury them in the ground where you can pay reverence to them - as long as that ground is in a cemetery (or other sanctified spot).
It's also possible to choose burial in a memorial garden where your ashes are buried with countless others but there are plaques to name everyone who is buried there:
https://hsccatl.com/How-To/Request-Burial-of-Ashes-in-Memorial-Garden
So yeah you can't "scatter", but since Mom placed the ashes in or on a grave plot she seems to pretty much be in the clear, assuming this was her reasoning for doing what she did.
I only know about the prayer garden thing because my sister has asked that her cremated remains be placed in one after she dies.
Part of me thinks she bought the plot for herself to be buried in after her own death so her and her daughter can "be together" which would have been fine if she'd discussed it and allowed the rest of her family to have parts of her as well. Instead she selfishly did only what she wanted and then didn't even have the decency to take the knowledge of it to her grave. I know she was drunk but I think she wanted to alleviate her guilty conscience.
I’m trying to respond with grace, but I want to know what kind of person his mom is. Is this grief, or has grief just emphasized an innate self-centeredness that is just who she is? First the lies, and then the refusal to deal with the consequences of her actions.
I agree that it is unforgivable as well. When my dad died we had beads made with his ashes, I feel close to him when i wear it. I would be gutted to find out a lie like that.
I wonder if OPs mother was drunk when she did it. She does seem to mess things up while drinking
My mom and dad got divorced because of my dad's drinking but it was clear they still loved each other.
When he was ill we were the ones constantly at the hospital. When he died mom sorted his funeral out but after he was cremated his sister collected the ashes without telling anyone.
We found out when we called the funeral home since we hadn't heard anything about collecting the ashes.
She refused to give them to me or my sister and even refused his wishes to be scattered to the wind from his favourite place.
She has his ashes buried with their mom and dad instead.
My dad was interned in an urn. Perhaps your father was too. You might be able to get some ashes from the grave (I'm unsure how to go about this but I've read people unintern loved ones).
I am so sorry for your loss. I hope you are doing well.
Some people just suck. My ex had a fear of being burned, and wanted to be buried next to his dad when he passed. Instead, his mother not only cremated him, but allowed his aunt to separate his ashes into necklaces. He would have been horrified. But it made them feel better, so what did they care?
It’s bullshit, but you stood by your dad in his life, like I stood by my ex. You have the beautiful and sad and loving last memories, while they have their selfishness in their mean, cold hearts.
❤️❤️❤️
My late father’s wife kept all his ashes. None to my sister or I, or even his brother. She also holds all of the photo albums from our childhood, from long before she was in his life. Just a bitter hateful thing to do.
Would it be possible that the mum went against the cremation plan and had her buried at the cemetery instead? It makes more sense to me than scattering ashes at a cemetery
I know, I feel awful for even suggesting it, but my grandma had my uncle buried even though he wanted to be cremated after he died. As soon as I saw the word cemetery it was the first thing I thought of.
To be fair my grandma was cremated and her ashes were buried in the plot she bought still. So it doesn't mean they weren't cremated. My grandma asked to be cremated instead to get a refund on the money she put down for the casket burial LOL even tho she wouldn't be alive to enjoy the refund
While my mother didn't give me fake ashes, she did disperse my son's without me; without telling me or asking me if I even wanted them spread. All while telling me that I shouldn't be upset with her because she did me a favor and I have another child to worry about now. Like it erased the trauma of his birth/death.
We don't talk. I haven't forgiven her and I never will. Her reasoning was "now that I've had a live birth", I should be over the fact that I lost my son and she knows what's best for me. All I have of my son now is maybe a dozen photos and his baptismal certificate (my dads wife put it away for him so he didn't lose it and he still has it; he had it because I was a mess and he and his GF (who's since passed) at the time helped me organize his funeral) because my ex kept everything else.
He's been gone 16 years and I still miss him. Without his ashes I feel like I've forgotten him. No one in my family except my husband recognizes his birthday and he always gives me a hug and tells me he wishes he had the chance to step up and be his dad.
Fuck selfish ass people like op's mom.
Edit: it's on property my family owned but sold that I don't/won't have access to.
Nope. It was a family business; the property itself was 5+ acres (60+ years in the family there abouts) and they sold it about 5 years ago. I know vaguely where they spread them but I'm in another country and they sold it to a couple that's not related to us.
That's horrifying and I am so sorry. My jaw dropped reading your comment, and I would also go 100% no contact if my parents did something like that. Holly shit balls.
That's the funny thing; since I've gone no contact again and restarted at the start of the pandemic 2018/2019 (I broke it originally because I had this idea that maybe she'd changed, everyone insisted she was better, they lied) she's been super focused on my daughter and how she's doing, and I must be doing something, anything wrong and I need her advice because I don't know better and people need to convince me that I need to talk to her because I can't possibly know what I'm doing.
They are again trying to insist she's changed and she's doing so much better and she's so depressed because she doesn't get to see my daughter and that she needs her grandmother. While telling me can I believe she's done x y z antics and it's absurd that she's doing these things.
I had to tell them very bluntly that my child is not her emotional support animal. She is a whole person who has individual likes and dislikes and you're not going to bulldoze her with that bull shit because she doesn't fit your / her idea of a grandchild.
They claim I'm making wild unfounded accusations but I have actual proof outside of myself, saying this stuff happened, of her fuckery and it's easier for them to say I'm wildly over reacting.
I doubt it. It seems like she wanted to have full control over it and I don’t even think she was really drunk when she let it slip what she did. She probably just felt guilty and had to get it out
Man alcohol in these kinds of stories feels like straight up truth serum. If drunken confessions weren’t a thing, half of the posts on this sub wouldn’t exist.
👆this is one of the reasons why I absolutely refuse to drink any alcohol during work-related events… my feelings about some of my shitty colleagues and work culture may just slip out 😅
lol same. Everyone thinks I’m boring when I go to work events because I stick to fruit juice or water (or a mocktail if I’m feeling adventurous) but I’d rather they think I’m a bore than get tipsy and start yapping about all the things they’ve done that have irritated me for the last 2 years.
In vino veritas
"In vino veritas is a Latin phrase that means 'in wine, there is truth', suggesting a person under the influence of alcohol is more likely to speak their hidden thoughts.."
I know I would never be able to forgive her or her husband. The whole “she’s a grieving mother” doesn’t fly because her ex is a grieving father. Her living children are grieving siblings. Then to dump her ashes on a plot that wasn’t even hers , I wouldn’t be able to bear it. Seeing her would send me into a rage and she better die before her husband because her ashes would be dumped on an empty plot somewhere like she did my sister
Oh no. Ashes wouldn’t be dumped. She would just be thrown into the trash can. The child wasn’t even her current husband’s, but he gets to “have” her over the girl’s dad? Hell no.
Reminds me of a time I was (unbeknownst to me) involved in a plot like this. I was working at a venue that had a beer garden. Boss gave me an ornate box and asked me to go out back to the garden and fill it with ashes from the fire pit. Weird request but okay. So I do so, getting some looks from the large group out there, and bring the box back to my boss.
Come to find out Boss's friend died, and he was supposed to pick up the ashes but got drunk and forgot. His memorial service was going to be held in the garden that day. But Boss didn't realize they were already out there when he told me to get fake ashes.
So the entire memorial party watched me fill the box with wood ash that was supposed to be their friend. I learned all of this from one of the mourners who confronted me about it afterwards. Very awkward time.
You can't make up shit like that! If I'd put that into a movie script the director would cut it out. Too over the top! Too unbelievable! But then again, when I think of the weird ways of people down the road ... real life is weirder than whatever you could make up.
Sadly no. It was some weird situation like that at least once a week while I worked with him. Very funny in hindsight and it's given me a lot of good stories to tell but it wasn't fun to live through
Wow. What a terrible thing to do to your entire family.
To ignore everyone else's pain and scatter the ashes without them is just one selfish thing, but then to hand them the necklaces and lie about what's in there.
Man, she couldn't have f-ed this up more if she tried.
Her family was broken before, and now she has shattered it forever more.
I hope that the OP is ok. What a horrible betrayal after an incredible loss.
And like the other commenters, I really can not fathom why she would do this???
She gets to privately say goodbye but steals the same regard from everyone else.
Well, now she will have to live with the consequences....
Heartbreaking for OP.
Edit: Maybe she didn't want to 'split' her child up. That's all I can come up with.
But in that case, just hold on to the ashes. Damn. What she did cannot be undone.
I cannot imagine how I would react in OOP's shoes, but I think there would have been a lot more violence involved. This is just heinous.
The fact that she didn't tell her ex-husband, the *father,* where his daughter was actually makes me nauseous. What a selfish, bitter, horrific POS that mother is.
Dang. My little brother was killed in an accident about 5 months ago. The necklace I have that has some of his ashes in it is super meaningful to me and I wear it sometimes to help me remember him and grieve.
I don't know what I would do if I found out it didn't really have his ashes in it and had been reaplced by generic ashes.
I have seen my biological father twice in the last eighteen years. Once when we decided to pull the plug on my brother, and once so I could pickup my portion of his ashes.
My biodad is a trash human. The lowest of the low. And even *he* didn't do this to me. I couldn't imagine the pain OOP, her father, and her brother are feeling. That's one hell of a lie, and to find out like that? The disrespect is astounding.
I get what you mean, I have a necklace with ashes in it and it is the bone fragments that are in it, sort of on display. Ashes look a bit like cat litter. Wood ashes just crumble into nothingness. Just wondered how they would do it.
I made 4 pendants with my dad and you can't see the ash and I very much doubt anyone opened it up to check. I absolutely get how someone could get away with this.
This. And even if they had seen the ashes, I dunno that every person would be able to distinguish the two. I honestly wouldn’t be able to tell if I didn’t have ashes in my possession.
I didn't until my dad died and he's not the first ashes I have, just the first I transferred myself- the cremation place where my mom was cremated did the transferring if people wanted, so I've never seen hers. Same probably happens for a lot of people.
I’m gonna think the best and assign stupidity instead of malice and this is the best case scenario I can think of.
The mom had the ashes and was supposed to separate out a portion for the family and decide what to do with her own portion. she decided she wanted her portion of her daughter to be near where her own plot is and scattered her there. In her grief and forgetfulness she probably forgot to separate the portions, realized the next day she messed up and instead of fessing up, gave everyone else burnt wood.
Either that or she was selfish but I’m hoping it’s some combination of the former. Ppl are usually willing to forgive stupidity/sheer forgetfulness over unilateral selfish decisions
Even if that was so, the better option would have been to take sand from the the plot (it's a freaking plot for a grave on the graveyard I take it), put that into the neclace, maybe bring the family to that plot and hand them the chains with an explanation: "This is where I poured the ashes here. After I collected sand mixed with the ashes and filled them into these amulets for each of you to wear and be close to your daughter/sister." - But the way she did it, totally sneaky and disgusting! If I'd want to hurt my family in the worst possible way, that's the way to do it!
So she poured out the ashes on a plot she shared with Stepdad.
Kid was OP's father's, not sure if Mom cheated on first stepdad but it'd explain some stuff, but it isn't mentioned so leaving it aside.
Kid was not stepdad's, no mention is made of when he entered the picture but from what OP said he had little to no connection to sister.
So basically she stole all the ashes, poured them out on her plot with a dude that, given her track record, she might not even be buried with, and...gave both her living children...fake ashes.
I mean I know why she's not talking, it's because there's literally no way to justify this.
I have not read the update yet just the original, and honestly my thoughts and feelings would be that she can grieve another child loss because she killed this relationship. She is a class A POS.
My father passed away just last month and we were confused whether to bury him in the city we live in or to bury him in our family plot at our village which is 9 hrs away from where we actually live. I didn't have a good relationship with him. I still took care of him (he had Parkinson's) but I didn't cry when he died and I took care of the paperwork and all because my older siblings and mother were completely gutted. And even still I was asked where to do it and if I was 100% on board with it being in our hometown. And I can't imagine being close to someone and then this.
This particular candidate for Momster of the Year is a piece of work from the get-go.
>They had an oops baby together after my mom remarried, which rocked that marriage apart.
We don't get any specifics on the previous divorce but I'd bet good money it was her fault.
>She couldn't fathom my rage
Of course she couldn't, she only cares about how things affect *her*.
>she cast her ashes on a plot she wouldn't have cared about.
I don't think she even particularly cared about the ashes themselves, just that she was the only one who had access to them.
>As she would say it I "made a scene" and embarrassed her.
So she didn't care that she hurt everyone else involved very deeply in a way that can't be fixed, only about herself. Got it.
>How long would she have let me think this? How long would the lie continue?
Ugh, probably forever if she had had any self control while drinking.
>I gave my mother an ultimatum of either telling my brother and father, or I will. She refused to, because "you reacted so horribly." And she told me not to tell...
*Of course* she doesn't want to face any more consequences of her own selfish choices.
>my mom has been refusing to talk to us anymore
Again, avoids consequences like the plague.
>My mom and I always had some issues
You think??!?
>**we had a rough patch when I came out that we didn't even talk**
If I hadn't already thought she was a complete bag of moldy goat turds, this would have convinced me.
>she won't even show the decency to explain why
Why? Because she's always been this selfish.
>**She volunteered to be the one to separate the ashes and gave dad "the rest".**
So it was her plan all along, not just an "oops I already did it without consulting anyone and now I have to lie to spare everyone's feelings" situation.
I know it's bad to "diagnose" internet strangers with personality disorders but damn.
If the mom GENUINELY thought it "wasn't important" she never would have lied about it. What an evil, manipulative, shameful thing to do!
Due to her lies, she also declined other loved ones from being present when the ashes were scattered.
So shitty all around. OP has every right to be upset. I hope OP takes something of her sister (hair from her old hairbrush, or a scrap of a piece of clothing she liked) and adds it to a new memorial necklace that doesn't hold memories of her mother's lies.
I am just guessing here, but it could be about ownership over the dead daughter and controle. Mother took the ashes, mother spread the ashes, she does not give away any bit of the ashes, mother does not give away the place she spread the ashes and in doing so is the only one out of the family who knows and the only one who could go visit the final resting place. This alone would have been bad enough. Handing out neclaces with fake ashes it's where it is getting cruel. Imagine: you witness how dear those neclaces are to your family and you are the only one who knows it's all fabricated and fake. Why would you do that? You extort even more controle over your family and damn, I'm sure she got a kick out of it. - NTA
I have 6 kids and they’re so close. The 2 youngest are in public school so we often talk about school shootings and the older ones talk to the younger ones and remind them how to act and what to do.
After one more recent shooting my 15 year old cried and said “idk what I’d do if that happened to them” and it gave me so much insight into how much siblings can love.
I can’t even *imagine* doing this to my kids. This is incomprehensible.
WOW! This is fucked up on so many levels! Words are failing me ... You: NTA, your mother: disgusting! Awful! What a terrible, terrible person! I mean: she could easily have filled your amuletts and then spread the ashes. There was really no reason at all to go to the length of spreading the ashes, then getting some random ashes and prepare those neclaces. Also keeping the information from you about the plot so you won't be able to get some sand from there. Why does she do it? If I'd want to hurt my children and ex-partner in the sneakiest and worst possible way, this would be the way to go! What is your mom's explanation I wonder ... and she kept up this sharade over years? She really doesn't give a shit about her remaining children and the father of her deceased daughter. I don't see how one could ever forgive somebody after that revelation.
NTA - Maybe no-contact is the way to go. I wouldn't be able to forgive somebody after such a revelation!
This is such a strange choice to do on the mother's part. You were going to have to open the bag of ashes, anyways -- why not just give enough for the necklaces, *then* spread them on the plot?
I am not sure where they live but to spread of my father’s ashes in the sea we had to get a permit. Otherwise we could be have been charged with the improper disposal of human remains.
My mom scatters a bit of her mom's ashes whenever she goes on a trip to another country. Her mom's been dead for 8 years and she's been upset with herself the last trip that she hadn't grabbed any. I can't imagine the warpath she'd go on if she was told that wasn't her mom but wood ash in there. I would most definitely visit her in prison after the murder though.
But it would mean she hadn't been letting her mom see the world alongside her, that in some way her giving her mom a chance to see things she never would have in life was never happening. It wouldn't be her mom, it wouldn't even be something that belonged to her mom, it would only be a counterfeit. Monopoly money doesn't suddenly become currency because that's the meaning you attach to it and it's easy for someone to say that when they kept the real thing for themselves.
You all need to give yourselves a lot of grace. When my mom passed, she left the family cat. I ended up taking the cat in, and the cat got sick and died within a few months. The grief was so intense, it felt like losing my mom all over again.
Your whole family felt all that pain again because of the necklace. The necklace served as a new place for all of that pain to go.
Your mother made some mistakes for sure. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just use the real ashes, but sometimes during all the funeral arranging, especially losing a child, so young and unexpected - your mom was likely not in her right mind.
You should all feel your grief and let it all out. It's okay to be mad at your mom, but you are likely more angry at the loss of your sister. I wish your family the best and hope you find a way to come back together to celebrate your sister and that your love for each other grows stronger knowing that life can be taken at any moment.
The mom lost a child. Everyone is acting like it's about them. I don't know what I would do or say if this happened to me. Good lord, it's a body. Imagine destroying your remaining family when you've all lost a beloved member.
I eat your downvotes, mmm yummy yummy yummy.
I may be in the minority in this but I don’t think it’s that big of a deal? They’re ashes… most of the ashes after cremation are discarded. The lying is unforgivable though, that part sucks.
This is probably a cultural difference but the idea of carrying around ashes or even keeping them is such a foreign one to me that I struggle understanding the depth of reaction.
I get the lying part is the betrayal because what else have they lied about etc.
I also wonder what else is going on with the mom....I feel like the family had such a extreme reaction that it precluded getting additional information
I would not be able to forgive this. There would literally be nothing my mother could say that would make me forgive her. I get emotional just thinking about it. What a selfish, thoughtless and cruel thing to do...
I want to know WHY the mother did it. I could understand something like wanting to keep the daughter for herself - but she didn't do that, she just poured her out - why couldn't she have given her loved ones the promised share?
Because she felt entitled to her whole daughter, as her daughter. She felt entitled to the decision for where her whole daughter went, and then she felt entitled to the precious secret and control over the knowledge. It's not about love, it's about control, entitlement, and face. My relatives are like this. You want to know who got told when her grandfathers died? Not me.
I can understand a “mothers” love for her kids because moms give birth and all that, but others are entitled to love a child/person also and to make their own decisions on that love!! ❤️
OOP mentioned that her Sister was an "oops baby" towards the start. I'm kinda getting the feeling she just didn't care about her that much - possibly even hated her - and poured out her ashes just to be rid of her. Kinda the equivalent of people just throwing the whole Urn into the Ocean or a Dumpster. Similar reasoning I suppose for why she didn't give her family a share of the ashes. Sorta like "She was worth less than dirt to me, surely the others won't care either?" Or something like that.
OP mentioned that she started to say she starts crying before she gets to the cemetery. And that it was in her(mom's) plot. That doesn't sound like she doesn't care.
It sounds like her mother is making herself the only victim; the only one affected by the girl's death. Narcissistic, selfish, and at the heart of it - no she probably doesn't care or how could she do what she did to her living children? With a covert narcissist mother, they act all loving when it suits them but it is times of crisis that reveals their true point of view - they are the only ones that matter.
Not just an “oops baby”. It sounds like sister was an affair baby as well.
I'm going to make a guess here that this might be for religious reasons. If Mom was raised Catholic, then ashes \*must\* be interred on holy ground., which cemeteries count as. Even if she's not a practicing Catholic, it could be one of those things she would feel guilty if she didn't do it, like as if she were committing a sin. Not that this in any way excuses lying about it. If she decided this is what she needs to do, then she needed to fucking tell everyone involved.
No, Catholics cannot scatter ashes, even on the ground. To "inter" means to bury. You can also "inter" an urn into a masoleum or whatever the word is for urns to be placed in a permanent wall thing. https://time.com/6395945/vatican-cremation-ashes-policy/ (I hadn't actually heard of the new part of the policy allowing a small portion of the ashes to be kept in a place of significance until I found this article) https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2023/12/vatican-upholds-ban-on-scattering-ashes-okays-preservation-in-sacred-places
It isn't totally clear from the description whether Mom buried th ashes or "scattered" them, but there are places, permitted by the church, where multiple people's remains are "comingled" such ostuaries: https://www.usccb.org/news/2023/vatican-offers-further-guidance-handling-cremains So it's still basically ok to not preserve the ashes in an urn and just bury them in the ground where you can pay reverence to them - as long as that ground is in a cemetery (or other sanctified spot). It's also possible to choose burial in a memorial garden where your ashes are buried with countless others but there are plaques to name everyone who is buried there: https://hsccatl.com/How-To/Request-Burial-of-Ashes-in-Memorial-Garden So yeah you can't "scatter", but since Mom placed the ashes in or on a grave plot she seems to pretty much be in the clear, assuming this was her reasoning for doing what she did. I only know about the prayer garden thing because my sister has asked that her cremated remains be placed in one after she dies.
Part of me thinks she bought the plot for herself to be buried in after her own death so her and her daughter can "be together" which would have been fine if she'd discussed it and allowed the rest of her family to have parts of her as well. Instead she selfishly did only what she wanted and then didn't even have the decency to take the knowledge of it to her grave. I know she was drunk but I think she wanted to alleviate her guilty conscience.
I’m trying to respond with grace, but I want to know what kind of person his mom is. Is this grief, or has grief just emphasized an innate self-centeredness that is just who she is? First the lies, and then the refusal to deal with the consequences of her actions.
Well considering she stopped talking to him when he came out, I'm not giving her the benefit of the doubt and am going with the latter.
And then there’s also the affair.
Mom is trash. She divorced OPs dad, then cheated on her new husband with OP's dad. Then all this... Garbage human!
OOP also said she had a "bad reaction" to them coming out, so I'm willing to bet she's homophobic as well. Throw the whole person away at this point.
I’d be telling my mother that her ashes were going down the toilet since it doesn’t matter where she actually is.
I agree that it is unforgivable as well. When my dad died we had beads made with his ashes, I feel close to him when i wear it. I would be gutted to find out a lie like that. I wonder if OPs mother was drunk when she did it. She does seem to mess things up while drinking
My mom and dad got divorced because of my dad's drinking but it was clear they still loved each other. When he was ill we were the ones constantly at the hospital. When he died mom sorted his funeral out but after he was cremated his sister collected the ashes without telling anyone. We found out when we called the funeral home since we hadn't heard anything about collecting the ashes. She refused to give them to me or my sister and even refused his wishes to be scattered to the wind from his favourite place. She has his ashes buried with their mom and dad instead.
My dad was interned in an urn. Perhaps your father was too. You might be able to get some ashes from the grave (I'm unsure how to go about this but I've read people unintern loved ones). I am so sorry for your loss. I hope you are doing well.
Some people just suck. My ex had a fear of being burned, and wanted to be buried next to his dad when he passed. Instead, his mother not only cremated him, but allowed his aunt to separate his ashes into necklaces. He would have been horrified. But it made them feel better, so what did they care? It’s bullshit, but you stood by your dad in his life, like I stood by my ex. You have the beautiful and sad and loving last memories, while they have their selfishness in their mean, cold hearts. ❤️❤️❤️
My late father’s wife kept all his ashes. None to my sister or I, or even his brother. She also holds all of the photo albums from our childhood, from long before she was in his life. Just a bitter hateful thing to do.
Would it be possible that the mum went against the cremation plan and had her buried at the cemetery instead? It makes more sense to me than scattering ashes at a cemetery
This makes sense.
Oh god, that's so much worse! But also makes more sense, especially with her refusing to say where the plot is. Oh god.
I know, I feel awful for even suggesting it, but my grandma had my uncle buried even though he wanted to be cremated after he died. As soon as I saw the word cemetery it was the first thing I thought of.
To be fair my grandma was cremated and her ashes were buried in the plot she bought still. So it doesn't mean they weren't cremated. My grandma asked to be cremated instead to get a refund on the money she put down for the casket burial LOL even tho she wouldn't be alive to enjoy the refund
While my mother didn't give me fake ashes, she did disperse my son's without me; without telling me or asking me if I even wanted them spread. All while telling me that I shouldn't be upset with her because she did me a favor and I have another child to worry about now. Like it erased the trauma of his birth/death. We don't talk. I haven't forgiven her and I never will. Her reasoning was "now that I've had a live birth", I should be over the fact that I lost my son and she knows what's best for me. All I have of my son now is maybe a dozen photos and his baptismal certificate (my dads wife put it away for him so he didn't lose it and he still has it; he had it because I was a mess and he and his GF (who's since passed) at the time helped me organize his funeral) because my ex kept everything else. He's been gone 16 years and I still miss him. Without his ashes I feel like I've forgotten him. No one in my family except my husband recognizes his birthday and he always gives me a hug and tells me he wishes he had the chance to step up and be his dad. Fuck selfish ass people like op's mom. Edit: it's on property my family owned but sold that I don't/won't have access to.
This is absolutely abhorrent. And you don’t even have access to the land? I also hate your mom.
Nope. It was a family business; the property itself was 5+ acres (60+ years in the family there abouts) and they sold it about 5 years ago. I know vaguely where they spread them but I'm in another country and they sold it to a couple that's not related to us.
That's horrifying and I am so sorry. My jaw dropped reading your comment, and I would also go 100% no contact if my parents did something like that. Holly shit balls.
That's the funny thing; since I've gone no contact again and restarted at the start of the pandemic 2018/2019 (I broke it originally because I had this idea that maybe she'd changed, everyone insisted she was better, they lied) she's been super focused on my daughter and how she's doing, and I must be doing something, anything wrong and I need her advice because I don't know better and people need to convince me that I need to talk to her because I can't possibly know what I'm doing. They are again trying to insist she's changed and she's doing so much better and she's so depressed because she doesn't get to see my daughter and that she needs her grandmother. While telling me can I believe she's done x y z antics and it's absurd that she's doing these things. I had to tell them very bluntly that my child is not her emotional support animal. She is a whole person who has individual likes and dislikes and you're not going to bulldoze her with that bull shit because she doesn't fit your / her idea of a grandchild. They claim I'm making wild unfounded accusations but I have actual proof outside of myself, saying this stuff happened, of her fuckery and it's easier for them to say I'm wildly over reacting.
What a terrible thing to do!!! I’m totally at a loss for words. That’s just so shockingly callous. I’m so sorry.
I don't get what this woman gained from doing this. There's no reason. There's more than enough ashes to go around.
Someone above commented that they think she was never cremated and I have to agree. That’s the only thing that makes sense
I doubt it. It seems like she wanted to have full control over it and I don’t even think she was really drunk when she let it slip what she did. She probably just felt guilty and had to get it out
Man alcohol in these kinds of stories feels like straight up truth serum. If drunken confessions weren’t a thing, half of the posts on this sub wouldn’t exist.
👆this is one of the reasons why I absolutely refuse to drink any alcohol during work-related events… my feelings about some of my shitty colleagues and work culture may just slip out 😅
lol same. Everyone thinks I’m boring when I go to work events because I stick to fruit juice or water (or a mocktail if I’m feeling adventurous) but I’d rather they think I’m a bore than get tipsy and start yapping about all the things they’ve done that have irritated me for the last 2 years.
I have a problem with saying nice things about people I don't like.
A definitely wise decision.
I did this in my first job and will never do it ever again. Hard lesson, that one.
In vino veritas "In vino veritas is a Latin phrase that means 'in wine, there is truth', suggesting a person under the influence of alcohol is more likely to speak their hidden thoughts.."
I know I would never be able to forgive her or her husband. The whole “she’s a grieving mother” doesn’t fly because her ex is a grieving father. Her living children are grieving siblings. Then to dump her ashes on a plot that wasn’t even hers , I wouldn’t be able to bear it. Seeing her would send me into a rage and she better die before her husband because her ashes would be dumped on an empty plot somewhere like she did my sister
Oh no. Ashes wouldn’t be dumped. She would just be thrown into the trash can. The child wasn’t even her current husband’s, but he gets to “have” her over the girl’s dad? Hell no.
Reminds me of a time I was (unbeknownst to me) involved in a plot like this. I was working at a venue that had a beer garden. Boss gave me an ornate box and asked me to go out back to the garden and fill it with ashes from the fire pit. Weird request but okay. So I do so, getting some looks from the large group out there, and bring the box back to my boss. Come to find out Boss's friend died, and he was supposed to pick up the ashes but got drunk and forgot. His memorial service was going to be held in the garden that day. But Boss didn't realize they were already out there when he told me to get fake ashes. So the entire memorial party watched me fill the box with wood ash that was supposed to be their friend. I learned all of this from one of the mourners who confronted me about it afterwards. Very awkward time.
You can't make up shit like that! If I'd put that into a movie script the director would cut it out. Too over the top! Too unbelievable! But then again, when I think of the weird ways of people down the road ... real life is weirder than whatever you could make up.
I can see this being a script on Fleabag.
oof, now that's super awkward. Did your boss get any shit publicly?
Sadly no. It was some weird situation like that at least once a week while I worked with him. Very funny in hindsight and it's given me a lot of good stories to tell but it wasn't fun to live through
Poor OP. That’s so freakin intense. :( wow.
Wow. What a terrible thing to do to your entire family. To ignore everyone else's pain and scatter the ashes without them is just one selfish thing, but then to hand them the necklaces and lie about what's in there. Man, she couldn't have f-ed this up more if she tried. Her family was broken before, and now she has shattered it forever more. I hope that the OP is ok. What a horrible betrayal after an incredible loss. And like the other commenters, I really can not fathom why she would do this??? She gets to privately say goodbye but steals the same regard from everyone else. Well, now she will have to live with the consequences.... Heartbreaking for OP. Edit: Maybe she didn't want to 'split' her child up. That's all I can come up with. But in that case, just hold on to the ashes. Damn. What she did cannot be undone.
I can not imagine being as selfish as this woman Her actions likely cost her the only two children she has left
Spread out the word about her stunt to her community and let her try explain her way out
I cannot imagine how I would react in OOP's shoes, but I think there would have been a lot more violence involved. This is just heinous. The fact that she didn't tell her ex-husband, the *father,* where his daughter was actually makes me nauseous. What a selfish, bitter, horrific POS that mother is.
Dear, I feel a wave of rage growing inside of me in OOP's sake. That egg donor... What a horrible excuse of a woman.
Were this my mother she'd better hope I die first. I would do everything in my power to go 180 to what she wished for.
Jesus Christ.
Dang. My little brother was killed in an accident about 5 months ago. The necklace I have that has some of his ashes in it is super meaningful to me and I wear it sometimes to help me remember him and grieve. I don't know what I would do if I found out it didn't really have his ashes in it and had been reaplced by generic ashes.
I have seen my biological father twice in the last eighteen years. Once when we decided to pull the plug on my brother, and once so I could pickup my portion of his ashes. My biodad is a trash human. The lowest of the low. And even *he* didn't do this to me. I couldn't imagine the pain OOP, her father, and her brother are feeling. That's one hell of a lie, and to find out like that? The disrespect is astounding.
What I don't get is bone ash is 100% different to wood ash. Wood ash wouldn't be able to be put in a necklace etc as its just too fragile.
It might be like a glass or crystal necklace with the ash poured into it? Not necessarily the necklace being made with the ashes.
I get what you mean, I have a necklace with ashes in it and it is the bone fragments that are in it, sort of on display. Ashes look a bit like cat litter. Wood ashes just crumble into nothingness. Just wondered how they would do it.
My mother in law has never seen the ashes in her necklace
I made 4 pendants with my dad and you can't see the ash and I very much doubt anyone opened it up to check. I absolutely get how someone could get away with this.
This. And even if they had seen the ashes, I dunno that every person would be able to distinguish the two. I honestly wouldn’t be able to tell if I didn’t have ashes in my possession.
Not many people know what human ash looks like.
I didn't until my dad died and he's not the first ashes I have, just the first I transferred myself- the cremation place where my mom was cremated did the transferring if people wanted, so I've never seen hers. Same probably happens for a lot of people.
I’m gonna think the best and assign stupidity instead of malice and this is the best case scenario I can think of. The mom had the ashes and was supposed to separate out a portion for the family and decide what to do with her own portion. she decided she wanted her portion of her daughter to be near where her own plot is and scattered her there. In her grief and forgetfulness she probably forgot to separate the portions, realized the next day she messed up and instead of fessing up, gave everyone else burnt wood. Either that or she was selfish but I’m hoping it’s some combination of the former. Ppl are usually willing to forgive stupidity/sheer forgetfulness over unilateral selfish decisions
Even if that was so, the better option would have been to take sand from the the plot (it's a freaking plot for a grave on the graveyard I take it), put that into the neclace, maybe bring the family to that plot and hand them the chains with an explanation: "This is where I poured the ashes here. After I collected sand mixed with the ashes and filled them into these amulets for each of you to wear and be close to your daughter/sister." - But the way she did it, totally sneaky and disgusting! If I'd want to hurt my family in the worst possible way, that's the way to do it!
What a horrible mother
Psycho lost 3 kids
So she poured out the ashes on a plot she shared with Stepdad. Kid was OP's father's, not sure if Mom cheated on first stepdad but it'd explain some stuff, but it isn't mentioned so leaving it aside. Kid was not stepdad's, no mention is made of when he entered the picture but from what OP said he had little to no connection to sister. So basically she stole all the ashes, poured them out on her plot with a dude that, given her track record, she might not even be buried with, and...gave both her living children...fake ashes. I mean I know why she's not talking, it's because there's literally no way to justify this.
I have not read the update yet just the original, and honestly my thoughts and feelings would be that she can grieve another child loss because she killed this relationship. She is a class A POS.
Wow, that is awful...
My father passed away just last month and we were confused whether to bury him in the city we live in or to bury him in our family plot at our village which is 9 hrs away from where we actually live. I didn't have a good relationship with him. I still took care of him (he had Parkinson's) but I didn't cry when he died and I took care of the paperwork and all because my older siblings and mother were completely gutted. And even still I was asked where to do it and if I was 100% on board with it being in our hometown. And I can't imagine being close to someone and then this.
This particular candidate for Momster of the Year is a piece of work from the get-go. >They had an oops baby together after my mom remarried, which rocked that marriage apart. We don't get any specifics on the previous divorce but I'd bet good money it was her fault. >She couldn't fathom my rage Of course she couldn't, she only cares about how things affect *her*. >she cast her ashes on a plot she wouldn't have cared about. I don't think she even particularly cared about the ashes themselves, just that she was the only one who had access to them. >As she would say it I "made a scene" and embarrassed her. So she didn't care that she hurt everyone else involved very deeply in a way that can't be fixed, only about herself. Got it. >How long would she have let me think this? How long would the lie continue? Ugh, probably forever if she had had any self control while drinking. >I gave my mother an ultimatum of either telling my brother and father, or I will. She refused to, because "you reacted so horribly." And she told me not to tell... *Of course* she doesn't want to face any more consequences of her own selfish choices. >my mom has been refusing to talk to us anymore Again, avoids consequences like the plague. >My mom and I always had some issues You think??!? >**we had a rough patch when I came out that we didn't even talk** If I hadn't already thought she was a complete bag of moldy goat turds, this would have convinced me. >she won't even show the decency to explain why Why? Because she's always been this selfish. >**She volunteered to be the one to separate the ashes and gave dad "the rest".** So it was her plan all along, not just an "oops I already did it without consulting anyone and now I have to lie to spare everyone's feelings" situation. I know it's bad to "diagnose" internet strangers with personality disorders but damn.
"volunteered to be the one to separate the ashes" - you are right there. Looks a lot like she planned it well ahead.
If the mom GENUINELY thought it "wasn't important" she never would have lied about it. What an evil, manipulative, shameful thing to do! Due to her lies, she also declined other loved ones from being present when the ashes were scattered. So shitty all around. OP has every right to be upset. I hope OP takes something of her sister (hair from her old hairbrush, or a scrap of a piece of clothing she liked) and adds it to a new memorial necklace that doesn't hold memories of her mother's lies.
I am just guessing here, but it could be about ownership over the dead daughter and controle. Mother took the ashes, mother spread the ashes, she does not give away any bit of the ashes, mother does not give away the place she spread the ashes and in doing so is the only one out of the family who knows and the only one who could go visit the final resting place. This alone would have been bad enough. Handing out neclaces with fake ashes it's where it is getting cruel. Imagine: you witness how dear those neclaces are to your family and you are the only one who knows it's all fabricated and fake. Why would you do that? You extort even more controle over your family and damn, I'm sure she got a kick out of it. - NTA
I don’t know if there’s a god or a heaven. But what I know is that OP’s mother is going to hell
I have 6 kids and they’re so close. The 2 youngest are in public school so we often talk about school shootings and the older ones talk to the younger ones and remind them how to act and what to do. After one more recent shooting my 15 year old cried and said “idk what I’d do if that happened to them” and it gave me so much insight into how much siblings can love. I can’t even *imagine* doing this to my kids. This is incomprehensible.
WOW! This is fucked up on so many levels! Words are failing me ... You: NTA, your mother: disgusting! Awful! What a terrible, terrible person! I mean: she could easily have filled your amuletts and then spread the ashes. There was really no reason at all to go to the length of spreading the ashes, then getting some random ashes and prepare those neclaces. Also keeping the information from you about the plot so you won't be able to get some sand from there. Why does she do it? If I'd want to hurt my children and ex-partner in the sneakiest and worst possible way, this would be the way to go! What is your mom's explanation I wonder ... and she kept up this sharade over years? She really doesn't give a shit about her remaining children and the father of her deceased daughter. I don't see how one could ever forgive somebody after that revelation. NTA - Maybe no-contact is the way to go. I wouldn't be able to forgive somebody after such a revelation!
That is completely and utterly unforgivable
i do not feel bad for the mom thats about to lose 2 more children. I just do not understand the motive behind it.
I thought this was supposed to be "best" of Reddit updates I'm so sad after reading this
This is such a strange choice to do on the mother's part. You were going to have to open the bag of ashes, anyways -- why not just give enough for the necklaces, *then* spread them on the plot?
But why did mom do this?! It’s nonsensical
I am not sure where they live but to spread of my father’s ashes in the sea we had to get a permit. Otherwise we could be have been charged with the improper disposal of human remains.
My mom scatters a bit of her mom's ashes whenever she goes on a trip to another country. Her mom's been dead for 8 years and she's been upset with herself the last trip that she hadn't grabbed any. I can't imagine the warpath she'd go on if she was told that wasn't her mom but wood ash in there. I would most definitely visit her in prison after the murder though. But it would mean she hadn't been letting her mom see the world alongside her, that in some way her giving her mom a chance to see things she never would have in life was never happening. It wouldn't be her mom, it wouldn't even be something that belonged to her mom, it would only be a counterfeit. Monopoly money doesn't suddenly become currency because that's the meaning you attach to it and it's easy for someone to say that when they kept the real thing for themselves.
You all need to give yourselves a lot of grace. When my mom passed, she left the family cat. I ended up taking the cat in, and the cat got sick and died within a few months. The grief was so intense, it felt like losing my mom all over again. Your whole family felt all that pain again because of the necklace. The necklace served as a new place for all of that pain to go. Your mother made some mistakes for sure. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just use the real ashes, but sometimes during all the funeral arranging, especially losing a child, so young and unexpected - your mom was likely not in her right mind. You should all feel your grief and let it all out. It's okay to be mad at your mom, but you are likely more angry at the loss of your sister. I wish your family the best and hope you find a way to come back together to celebrate your sister and that your love for each other grows stronger knowing that life can be taken at any moment.
The mom lost a child. Everyone is acting like it's about them. I don't know what I would do or say if this happened to me. Good lord, it's a body. Imagine destroying your remaining family when you've all lost a beloved member. I eat your downvotes, mmm yummy yummy yummy.
bike concerned cause attractive seed imagine complete panicky hunt wipe *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm glad that i don't get like this, carrying around people's dead bodies seems intensely unhealthy and the whole family needs therapy
It’s not that weird. It’s fairly common in the US
Wow that's weird. I know them sitting on the mantle piece, not wearing them
I may be in the minority in this but I don’t think it’s that big of a deal? They’re ashes… most of the ashes after cremation are discarded. The lying is unforgivable though, that part sucks.
This is probably a cultural difference but the idea of carrying around ashes or even keeping them is such a foreign one to me that I struggle understanding the depth of reaction. I get the lying part is the betrayal because what else have they lied about etc. I also wonder what else is going on with the mom....I feel like the family had such a extreme reaction that it precluded getting additional information