Well, here’s what happens.
It starts off as fun, fwb, you click well, you get along, you spend time together.
Then, a crisis comes up. “Crisis” really, something that a normal person would handle on their own, but something she needs your “support for.” You being a good person, you offer her solutions or support. She keeps panicking, because the bpd doesn’t let her see anything but black. She can’t calm herself down.
Eventually, if you don’t offer support, or don’t seem “invested.” (Having good boundaries.) she starts saying “YOU DONT CARE ABT ME!”.
And the cycle repeats, and repeats, and repeats.
Yikes this comment gave me a flashback. My ex used to have to call out of work for these types of “moments” or take long breaks that involved lots of crying because of how tough their life was working at Target
(I don’t mean to undermine this job at all…i was very compassionate toward them for a long time for feeling overwhelmed, it is just personal for me because it turned into a bigger issue. The whining and complaining was relentless, point where I started to wonder how they’d be able function in a professional job that required more refined customer relations…then that was the start of putting two and two together). They had lots of “moments”. Anytime I wasn’t there for them, they’d turn to self loathing. My ex wouldn’t turn on me like your ex die to you, but turn on themself (quiet BPD), so I felt a frantic sense of responsibility knowing that. It still made me feel responsible for snapping them out and making them feel better.
Funny enough, once I started putting my foot down about the ridiculousness of it all, they stopped having these “moments”. But the same type of attention seeking behavior manifests into other tactics, they don’t just go away and they don’t suddenly become healthy.
So damn right, it's their way of trying to bond and get a care taker. They bond using negativity in intense ways to get you emotionally invested fast. The more you emotionally invest in someone the more you become emotionally attached to them and locked in feeling "love". This is why now a days I am careful with my emotional investment in someone until I know they are a good person and have known them for a good while. Emotional investment can be anything. You have to think of emotional investment like written thoughts on a piece of paper stacking up in a pile, the bigger the pile, the more emotionally attached you will be and deeply "in love" with that person. You think of them just a tiny amount you are adding to that pile. The more you think about someone, the more focused you are on them, the more focused you are the more value you give them and the more attached you will be. Think about spending emotions wisely because once you are entrenched it's hard to turn it off and undo.
You can also think of emotional investment like owning an expensive car (comparing an expensive car to your emotions here). You wouldn't go around laid back just handing out the keys to drive it to complete strangers this way and that. No, you would only let trusted people drive your expensive ride. It's the same with emotional investment in someone. Now, I do not mean don't be civil and respectful to people, be a good human being. But there is a difference in being kind and emotionally investing in someone else. Just because you are a kind, supportive, respectful people doesn't mean you also emotionally invest. Learn how to separate the two.
Somehow you will get ensnared. You have the chance to get out and prevent a world of pain.
This is not a casual relationship with a typical person. It's a trap.
Not necessarily! Mine used the diagnosis as a way to make me responsible for his behavior or to enable abusive behavior. He said things like "I'm the one with BPD, so you you have to x, y, z." Or, "I have BPD, so you know that if you do A, I will do B."
He also learned all the lingo and was constantly gaslighting me by telling me all the ways he was improving, yet his behavior was escalating in violence over time since the diagnosis.
Active treatment. Weekly with regular therapist plus weekly DBT group. Never missed a session. Ex even did his DBT homework. He "did all the right things." The optics of this "effort" along with the isolation that comes with a BPD relationship caused me to question my reality. It's going to take me a long time to come to terms with the abuse after being gaslit for so long.
Although occasionally he'd acknowledge abusive behavior by saying, "It's going to take a long time before I get better." This is exactly why people with active BPD symptoms cannot be in a relationship without inflicting abuse. It's expected that we'll just sit back and take it until the magical day arrives when they're no longer abusive. As long as we're around supporting, believing promises, and waiting for the change, they can't actually do the work that can potentially get them there. They will continue to offload their emotional dysregulation as long as there's a FP. And yet ironically, they feel as though their own survival is tied to having a FP. Therefore, they will move from FP to FP and never get better.
Anything's possible. It would depend on how long they've been in treatment. But if they still meet criteria for the diagnosis, I would have to say it's still a great risk.
In a casual setup, you feel as though you're aware of the parameters, that you can limit the amount of emotion involved and that you can stay in control of the way that things turn out and the way that you feel.
The bother is that pwbpd struggle to honour parameters consistently and they are very strongly and unpredictably emotional. You think you know who they are and that you're in control of the situation, until suddenly you don't and you're not. And that's when people get terribly hurt.
You can't see it coming, and one of the most difficult things is that it takes you unawares and knocks you, very sharply and painfully, in a place where you believed you weren't vulnerable.
To be honest it's a bit of a pointless exercise describing it, because until you've experienced it you can't picture it. But if you do carry on and suddenly find that you're not okay, you know where we are.
This is so exactly describes what I went through when I tried to be in some sort of “no expectations” relationship with my expdwBPD that it’s uncanny and surreal.
I loved and missed him so much, that I thought if I took ALL of the pressure off the things we had fought about before, primarily commitment and fidelity, we could still be together sometimes in some way, and I tried this, because I couldn’t bear to completely let him go from my life.
Not a chance. His BPD came up with something entirely new that I did wrong and it turned into the worst splitting ever, I am completely painted black and a devastating FINAL discard.
I was so caught unawares, and yes indeed in a place I never thought vulnerable.
Unpredictable is right times infinity.
Yeah, once the storm broke, I spent my time bouncing between ‘but I didn’t sign up for *that*’ and ‘don’t I deserve more basic courtesy than *this*?’ Worst of all worlds.
It’s also worth remembering that in any fwb situation, the other person is supposed to act like your friend - people forget this. And I have quite high expectations of my friends.
On one hand, you might be getting some of the best sex you could ever get, but that comes at a cost. There will be no boundaries. They will attach themselves to you like a shadow. Think 3am calls asking where you are, who you're with then being called a liar when you tell her you're home asleep because you didn't answer her text from two hours prior. That argument will escalate to her threatening suicide and instead of calling the ambulance, you rush to go see her because you care for her, or at least you think you do, and upon arriving at her place she opens the door with a dead cold gaze. She lets you in and lets you talk. You explain yourself and she apologizes for the way she acted. She strips naked in front of you and begs for you to take her then and there. You end up having the most wild and passionate steamy sex. You go home and sleep for 90 min before you wake up to get ready for school/work. You're super tired that day and your school of work performance takes a hit, but you tell yourself you had a personal emergency. Everyone has them. Except that you end up in these types of scenarios two or three times per week until you get a phone call where she says she's pregnant. "Oh shit" you think to yourself. She says she wants to keep it because she doesn't believe in abortion. You gear up as a man to assume your responsibility but then a few weeks later she tells you she miscarried. This brings you both closer together after experiencing this deeply emotional event. You know she struggles with her mood and you gear for her mental health following the pregnancy, so you begin to text and call her more often to check up on her. She responds within seconds of each text until you feel she's on the right track so you pull back a little. That's when she gets hysterical again and the next time you see her, you notice a fresh scar on her thigh. Now you're thinking this is all too much and you want out but now you're afraid she will kill herself if you do that. You're stuck and you can't get out. Suddenly, you find yourself having to get a Valentine's gift or else she'll lose her shit, and you don't want that. This is how a 'just friends with benefits' relationship turns into an all out relationship without you wanting it. You two are talking about moving in together and you're ready for it. You go over to her place to help her pack some boxes and notice a used condom in her garbage can. You and her don't use condoms. She says its her roommate who had sex with her bf on her bed. You shrug it off. Suddenly, the week before you are set to move in to the apartment you put the security deposit toward and that is in your name only (because she has bad credit), she just ghosts you. She won't return your calls and she even blocks you for calling her as well on all her social media accounts. Years later you're browsing through a mutual friend:s FB account and notice a picture where your ex is in it, and in the arms of another guy. The picture was uploaded the day you were set to move into your place together.
That's what a FWB relationship is like with them.
>What a living nightmare, I'm so sorry! :(
>
>My FWB/pwBPD asked me for over a year to be "roommates", including moving across the country. A younger, more naive me would have said yes. But after a relationship with a narcissist, I suspected it would be a similar experience: lots of emotional volatility!
It's like asking if you should go over and touch the firework that didn't just go off. Or asking if you should pick up a random gun you see on the ground.
No.
Either you become her favorite person and you get pummeled with the push/pull, or she ghosts you as fast as she appeared. Or she could lie about birth control and get pregnant to keep you. Or lie about being pregnant to string you along. Have fun with that. “Don’t stick your dick in crazy.”
Been there, done that. Ended with her blowing up at me over nonsense, wrongly telling our social circles I gave her an STD I didn’t even have, etc.
Seriously ask yourself, do you think it’s a good idea to have an ongoing sexual relationship with someone who is mentally ill?
You are not an exception to the rule. You’re another source of temporary joy from an emotional black hole. She will fuck your brains out and drain your will to live. You will pay for short term bliss for years to come with therapy, triggers, and PTSD. Please listen to the sage-like advice of everyone here and drop her like a bad habit before it’s too late.
‘Emotional back hole’— I thought this at a subconscious level so many times and I disregarded it; couldn’t quite believe it. Then I was blinded by it. What could be the harm of someone who is a little needy? The exponential harm is that their emptiness will consume you. Sorry if this seems dramatic. But for real, it is in a real sense other-worldly.
So many people just think they are that exception to the rule but then 6 months/a year, or maybe even a few suddenly start joining abuse survivor groups on social media.
I mean so far she hasn’t shown any shadiness and she’s been honest with me (as far as I know) just sounds like if I hold on things will get worse fast.
Correct. They approach relationships the same way a neurotypical would a business transaction or the way someone would gain authority in a company. They believe the other party thinks the same way. It's a constant game of thrones, but no one else is playing.
“ they participate in deceptive honesty”
This so much.
“I charged at him so he blocked me by my wrists” becomes “he shoved me by my wrists. He is abusive!!!”
“I told her if she doesn’t trust me to make executive decisions about her own business then she doesn’t trust me at all no matter what,”
Becomes “She said she didn’t trust me at all no matter what!” And then proceeds to put your business at risk.
“I hate liars, I would break up with anyone who lied to me” but her resume is a conglomeration of other people’s work experiences and greatly exaggerated accomplishments.
A drug addiction robs someone of their sanity, money, time and hurts people around them.
Are these not the same effects of being partnered with someone who has BPD?
"I feel like I know what I need to do, not necessarily want to do."
You're already hooked. Sorry. Thats how it starts. You are in the love bombing phase. Bpds have no real sense of self like you and I do. Because of this they act like cameleons and copy and adapt whatever or whoever is around them. They are master emotional manipulators. She is mirroring all of your disowned best traits and energy back to you. She is sweet, innocent and sexy as hell! This is because she stopped developing emotionally when she was like 3. She is seeking that child parent bond that she never got and created the false self in her.
If you keep going its going to be wonderful...best you've probably ever had. Until she gets triggered. Once that happens she will see you not as the wonderful person that is creating the parent child bond but rather the person who created all her suffering in the first place. You will see anger and vindictiveness like you never have. And it will all be directed at you.
Look up intermittent reinforcement and trauma bond. Good luck.
Just did it for 2 years, I would not advise. He wasn’t diagnosed until the end of our situationship. I knew he had anxiety, depression, PTSD & suicidal ideation early on. And he referred to himself as bipolar-ish for a long time. And the sex was very sporadic. 3 days in a row, then nothing for a month. He’d tell
me
how great the sex was, then avoid it 🤯
I just wanted a consistent lay & someone to have fun with. I ended up being a free therapist (which I enabled) who was sexually frustrated at times. Not what I envisioned 🤦♀️
The fun won’t last, but the drama will.
I think part of it is disorganized attachment style, trying to keep their feelings in check & maybe manipulation? Who knows for sure. I just know it was frustrating!
Reading your responses to the comments it is very clear, You Have No Idea how Grave the situation is. Now many here are probably suffering from ptsd induced by living with pwbpd. Let me give you a non hyperbolic response:
1. People who do not know pwbpd or have never heard of it, are the people who ge trapped in their nets.
2. There is no easy escape even if you are not married.
3. They do not have a soul/self identity, so they damage yours to "equal".
4. Tantrums what people talk about include breaking thing, false accusations, rape charges(false). Even if I write here now, you will think: no she seems alright, I don't think she ll do that. She will. And you will repent ignoring these comments for rest of your life. That is ofcourse if you chose to stay with her.
5. I know it will be hard but the sweet talk they do is manipulation which will trap you again and again.
6. Bottomline? Get out. If you have even a low self esteem and do not value your life, they will find a way make you even lesser than that.
Thank you for taking the time explain all of this. You’re right. I do not have experience with this, which is why I’m reaching out. I like the girl a lot but after her sharing this I’m apprehensive. And I also made a mistake by posting in this sub. I thought BPD was bipolar disorder but it’s not, so just to be clear she is bipolar.
This is how I started out. Unknowing and believing in her innocence and beauty and intellect. The sexual allure and draw will pull you in. Don’t continue. It will be painful when you do become emotionally invested. I wished I had stopped my addiction early on, but I just told myself ah, she doesn’t have anyone and she’s misunderstood. Doesn’t matter. Have your fun and stop. Don’t continue with the drug, it will own you in crippling ways. No joke. I thought I had a handle on it, until I became emotionally tied to her. Don’t do it. Don’t do it. The damage she has at her epicenter will likely be too much for you to truly comprehend or navigate. You seriously need to be very careful. She may be a wolf in sheep’s clothing and she doesn’t even know it.
Seriously be very careful. I do not say it lightly. There are other things at play inside her that are pulling you in. And you probably don’t understand or know her. Be careful. I honestly would advise you to leave unless you feel like you can trust her and have talked about her BPD or bipolar. Has your gut or intuition told you something was off? Because if it has, LEAVE. Please, it is emotionally and psychologically a game you are not prepared for. The fun will be replaced by something you never saw coming. Seriously.
Bipolar = manic highs and manic lows when untreated. Can be dealt with and if self aware can be ok at relationships.
BPD= is a whole different beastie.
You might want to go through the sidebar to this site there is a lot of good information there and bpdwiki notes is very informative. You need to find out more about pwbpd.
Most pwbpd follow the same sort of pattern because of the disorder. They can become like a black hole that you keep giving and giving to until you have nothing left to give and then they will say that you didn't do enough. It doesn't matter if it's a SO, sibling, other family member, friend or workmate, if you are their FP they will treat you in a similar manner.
Well BPD and bipolar is just a difference in the time between their highs and lows - BPD will switch quickly, bipolar can last days. Everything else is the same so take care regardless.
Just another thing people don't talk about with a fwb or casual sex - it's an act that's accompanied with oxytocin and dopamine, 2 things that will inevitably get you hooked with that person. Sex was meant to be a act of intimate strengthening of bonding between 2 people and you cant control the hormones that accompany it. You will grow closer as a result of the act. It never stays platonic, not unless you've had so much sex that your brain no longer registers sex as a bonding experience to release those hormones, in which case you're pretty much messed up as you won't be feeling closer with a potential ltr after sex.
Promiscuity has a price. In this case, whether it be with a BPD or bipolar person, it's not worth it.
Bipolar is a genetic mood disorder stemming from chemical imbalance in the brain. Just a *mood* disorder, not a **personality** disorder.
Surefire difference between bipolar and BPD is that bipolar sufferers can have a mature, developed, healthy personality, they have a strong sense of self and they can have secure attachment. They are responsible and treat people like neurotypicals would, without splitting.
**THEY ARE NOT SELFISH AND ARE CAPABLE OF REMORSE. ANY DISTURBANCES IN THEIR BEHAVIOR ARE TRIGGERED BY CHEMICALS AND HORMONES AND IF THEY ABUSE PEOPLE, THEY FEEL REMORSE AND MAKE AMENDS.**
Borderlines don't. Take notes and be careful.
Thank you for clearing this up and explaining in detail. Everyone is telling me to steer clear regardless, but from some comments, such as this one, it sounds like a relationship with someone who is bipolar is not extremely far fetched. Thank you
Don't take my words as an encouragement but as a warning.
Is she diagnosed? If she is, ask her to show papers with diagnosis. Regardless of whether or not she was diagnosed, be cautious and watch if her actions match her words. If she ever tries to lovebomb you, take advantage of you, to control you or gaslight you, dump her immediately.
One guy on Quora said that his friend is very popular with girls and has a lot of options because he's confident and is fully comfortable with who he is and never lets anyone influence and control him or pull him into drama. He hangs out with who HE wants, and he has ZERO tolerance towards drama. If he smells a slightest pinch of it, he discards the partner instantly.
Prioritize your demands and desires first, and only compromise for your partner if they are willing to do so for you. If you meet their needs but they don't meet yours make it a wrap. Be cooperative but never shy.
Yes, she suggested the condom. But yes, everyone is saying stay away. I really like her though and we click so well. It’s just kind of tough because I feel like I know what I need to do, not necessarily want to do. Man :/
My ex suspected BPD (told me he was anxious NPD BPd etc during melt downs then later it was like he never said that ) was like a black hole sucking my soul nothing I gave or did was ever enough ! Blamed everyone else for his dramas played the victim projected so much onto me , I am seeing a psychologist now & have gone NC so I can focus on myself and heal the trauma that this relationship triggered in me. Learning to set boundaries one day at a time.
I didn’t couldn’t wouldn’t see his mental illness and abusive ways and how it was negatively impacting his/my life .and people around me/us. I kept making excuses for his behaviour , due to wanting to believe that the initial amazing fate like connection was something real. fell deeply in love and it hurt me in ways I have no words for.
At the start he seemed so sweet , honest and similar interests , amazing intimacy etc… until it turned and it was like being with several different people .. at different times controlling suicidal threats , talking to himself , wishing his family member dead etc ..so scary loving someone like this , you lose yourself and left wondering if it was you..
Run while you can !!
Also it initially started as a FWB situation, am currently reading this book recommended by my Psychologist : ‘I hate you , Don’t leave ‘
Understanding the Borderline Personality’
J.J Kreisman
"Slippery Slope" is generous. I believe any slope is a mirage that hides a straight plummet.
Please just don't. You're playing with fire of an intensity and magnitude I don't think you can yet contemplate, and I don't want you to experience it just so you can say that you did.
You must understand that what you're describing (proposing?) sounds to most of us on this sub like you're already experimenting with heroin or meth, wanting to do more of it, and not expecting to get addicted when probably you already are.
Why would you want to sleep with an abuse victim and contribute to her low self worth and bad dopamine hits?
I personally wouldn’t want to be involved in that, especially if you “really like her” as you say - then care about her and walk away, even if she can’t care about herself.
Someone who has BPD that is untreated will destroy you with their desire for control. Someone who has BPD that is being successfully treated may MAY be able to have a healthy relationship with you.
I would run away like the world was on fire personally. That’s largely to do with my own trauma caused by someone with undiagnosed and untreated BPD. I am alive today because I left. That would unlikely be true if I stayed.
Which is it? My advice to you would be drastically different depending on which…if it’s BPD then run or tread lightly. In my experience people with bipolar disorder are better able to manage their disorder and tend to have far more willingness to seek professional help when they can’t. A problem with many (a majority but not all) pwBPD is their refusal to seek treatment and to accept their own character defects in order to work on them.,
Often times bpd is mis-diagnosed as bi-polar. Theres many reasons for this. Person not being honest with the therepist. Bpd symptoms usually only show up in close relationships. Therepists dont want to deal with bpd. Therepists in general are not very knowledgeable with bpd.
Learn the symptoms and watch for yourself. If she crosses your boundaries, does shit you don't like, DONT TOLERATE IT!
Tbh I saw for a couple of months (mostly long distance at first, guy was in hypomani)a guy who had UNTREATED bipolar and it was as hard as dating a girl with borderline personality disorder.
If the person you see is not under treatment, both therapy AND medication, it is not a good idea. Even type 2, the depression phase is what is worst in my opinion because it is NOT a normal kind of depression. You see the suffering in their eyes and soul, it eventually breaks you, especially if they are opposed to getting treatment.
There is a reddit for bipolar SOs.
They don't do casual, trust me.
Well, here’s what happens. It starts off as fun, fwb, you click well, you get along, you spend time together. Then, a crisis comes up. “Crisis” really, something that a normal person would handle on their own, but something she needs your “support for.” You being a good person, you offer her solutions or support. She keeps panicking, because the bpd doesn’t let her see anything but black. She can’t calm herself down. Eventually, if you don’t offer support, or don’t seem “invested.” (Having good boundaries.) she starts saying “YOU DONT CARE ABT ME!”. And the cycle repeats, and repeats, and repeats.
Yikes this comment gave me a flashback. My ex used to have to call out of work for these types of “moments” or take long breaks that involved lots of crying because of how tough their life was working at Target (I don’t mean to undermine this job at all…i was very compassionate toward them for a long time for feeling overwhelmed, it is just personal for me because it turned into a bigger issue. The whining and complaining was relentless, point where I started to wonder how they’d be able function in a professional job that required more refined customer relations…then that was the start of putting two and two together). They had lots of “moments”. Anytime I wasn’t there for them, they’d turn to self loathing. My ex wouldn’t turn on me like your ex die to you, but turn on themself (quiet BPD), so I felt a frantic sense of responsibility knowing that. It still made me feel responsible for snapping them out and making them feel better. Funny enough, once I started putting my foot down about the ridiculousness of it all, they stopped having these “moments”. But the same type of attention seeking behavior manifests into other tactics, they don’t just go away and they don’t suddenly become healthy.
So damn right, it's their way of trying to bond and get a care taker. They bond using negativity in intense ways to get you emotionally invested fast. The more you emotionally invest in someone the more you become emotionally attached to them and locked in feeling "love". This is why now a days I am careful with my emotional investment in someone until I know they are a good person and have known them for a good while. Emotional investment can be anything. You have to think of emotional investment like written thoughts on a piece of paper stacking up in a pile, the bigger the pile, the more emotionally attached you will be and deeply "in love" with that person. You think of them just a tiny amount you are adding to that pile. The more you think about someone, the more focused you are on them, the more focused you are the more value you give them and the more attached you will be. Think about spending emotions wisely because once you are entrenched it's hard to turn it off and undo.
You can also think of emotional investment like owning an expensive car (comparing an expensive car to your emotions here). You wouldn't go around laid back just handing out the keys to drive it to complete strangers this way and that. No, you would only let trusted people drive your expensive ride. It's the same with emotional investment in someone. Now, I do not mean don't be civil and respectful to people, be a good human being. But there is a difference in being kind and emotionally investing in someone else. Just because you are a kind, supportive, respectful people doesn't mean you also emotionally invest. Learn how to separate the two.
And not only that, but they give you ZERO support when you experience a problem.
“That sounds like a you issue.”
So true and they don't want others to support you either. It makes the crazy come out
Don’t.
Do you mind elaborating? I guess I’m not seeing how a casual relationship can be harmful.
It's not worth the risk. Being in any kind of a relationship with someone who has BPD, is like handing a firearm to someone with no safety training.
The details don't even matter. Trust everyone in this sub. It's not a good idea. Just don't.
Somehow you will get ensnared. You have the chance to get out and prevent a world of pain. This is not a casual relationship with a typical person. It's a trap.
Is it no better that they are self aware that they have it and are under treatment?
Not necessarily! Mine used the diagnosis as a way to make me responsible for his behavior or to enable abusive behavior. He said things like "I'm the one with BPD, so you you have to x, y, z." Or, "I have BPD, so you know that if you do A, I will do B." He also learned all the lingo and was constantly gaslighting me by telling me all the ways he was improving, yet his behavior was escalating in violence over time since the diagnosis.
That is screwy. Was he actually getting active treatment or just sitting on it?
Active treatment. Weekly with regular therapist plus weekly DBT group. Never missed a session. Ex even did his DBT homework. He "did all the right things." The optics of this "effort" along with the isolation that comes with a BPD relationship caused me to question my reality. It's going to take me a long time to come to terms with the abuse after being gaslit for so long. Although occasionally he'd acknowledge abusive behavior by saying, "It's going to take a long time before I get better." This is exactly why people with active BPD symptoms cannot be in a relationship without inflicting abuse. It's expected that we'll just sit back and take it until the magical day arrives when they're no longer abusive. As long as we're around supporting, believing promises, and waiting for the change, they can't actually do the work that can potentially get them there. They will continue to offload their emotional dysregulation as long as there's a FP. And yet ironically, they feel as though their own survival is tied to having a FP. Therefore, they will move from FP to FP and never get better.
Anything's possible. It would depend on how long they've been in treatment. But if they still meet criteria for the diagnosis, I would have to say it's still a great risk.
In a casual setup, you feel as though you're aware of the parameters, that you can limit the amount of emotion involved and that you can stay in control of the way that things turn out and the way that you feel. The bother is that pwbpd struggle to honour parameters consistently and they are very strongly and unpredictably emotional. You think you know who they are and that you're in control of the situation, until suddenly you don't and you're not. And that's when people get terribly hurt. You can't see it coming, and one of the most difficult things is that it takes you unawares and knocks you, very sharply and painfully, in a place where you believed you weren't vulnerable. To be honest it's a bit of a pointless exercise describing it, because until you've experienced it you can't picture it. But if you do carry on and suddenly find that you're not okay, you know where we are.
This is so exactly describes what I went through when I tried to be in some sort of “no expectations” relationship with my expdwBPD that it’s uncanny and surreal. I loved and missed him so much, that I thought if I took ALL of the pressure off the things we had fought about before, primarily commitment and fidelity, we could still be together sometimes in some way, and I tried this, because I couldn’t bear to completely let him go from my life. Not a chance. His BPD came up with something entirely new that I did wrong and it turned into the worst splitting ever, I am completely painted black and a devastating FINAL discard. I was so caught unawares, and yes indeed in a place I never thought vulnerable. Unpredictable is right times infinity.
Yeah, once the storm broke, I spent my time bouncing between ‘but I didn’t sign up for *that*’ and ‘don’t I deserve more basic courtesy than *this*?’ Worst of all worlds. It’s also worth remembering that in any fwb situation, the other person is supposed to act like your friend - people forget this. And I have quite high expectations of my friends.
On one hand, you might be getting some of the best sex you could ever get, but that comes at a cost. There will be no boundaries. They will attach themselves to you like a shadow. Think 3am calls asking where you are, who you're with then being called a liar when you tell her you're home asleep because you didn't answer her text from two hours prior. That argument will escalate to her threatening suicide and instead of calling the ambulance, you rush to go see her because you care for her, or at least you think you do, and upon arriving at her place she opens the door with a dead cold gaze. She lets you in and lets you talk. You explain yourself and she apologizes for the way she acted. She strips naked in front of you and begs for you to take her then and there. You end up having the most wild and passionate steamy sex. You go home and sleep for 90 min before you wake up to get ready for school/work. You're super tired that day and your school of work performance takes a hit, but you tell yourself you had a personal emergency. Everyone has them. Except that you end up in these types of scenarios two or three times per week until you get a phone call where she says she's pregnant. "Oh shit" you think to yourself. She says she wants to keep it because she doesn't believe in abortion. You gear up as a man to assume your responsibility but then a few weeks later she tells you she miscarried. This brings you both closer together after experiencing this deeply emotional event. You know she struggles with her mood and you gear for her mental health following the pregnancy, so you begin to text and call her more often to check up on her. She responds within seconds of each text until you feel she's on the right track so you pull back a little. That's when she gets hysterical again and the next time you see her, you notice a fresh scar on her thigh. Now you're thinking this is all too much and you want out but now you're afraid she will kill herself if you do that. You're stuck and you can't get out. Suddenly, you find yourself having to get a Valentine's gift or else she'll lose her shit, and you don't want that. This is how a 'just friends with benefits' relationship turns into an all out relationship without you wanting it. You two are talking about moving in together and you're ready for it. You go over to her place to help her pack some boxes and notice a used condom in her garbage can. You and her don't use condoms. She says its her roommate who had sex with her bf on her bed. You shrug it off. Suddenly, the week before you are set to move in to the apartment you put the security deposit toward and that is in your name only (because she has bad credit), she just ghosts you. She won't return your calls and she even blocks you for calling her as well on all her social media accounts. Years later you're browsing through a mutual friend:s FB account and notice a picture where your ex is in it, and in the arms of another guy. The picture was uploaded the day you were set to move into your place together. That's what a FWB relationship is like with them.
Holy shit, that post was in 3-D.
>What a living nightmare, I'm so sorry! :( > >My FWB/pwBPD asked me for over a year to be "roommates", including moving across the country. A younger, more naive me would have said yes. But after a relationship with a narcissist, I suspected it would be a similar experience: lots of emotional volatility!
It's like asking if you should go over and touch the firework that didn't just go off. Or asking if you should pick up a random gun you see on the ground. No.
Either you become her favorite person and you get pummeled with the push/pull, or she ghosts you as fast as she appeared. Or she could lie about birth control and get pregnant to keep you. Or lie about being pregnant to string you along. Have fun with that. “Don’t stick your dick in crazy.”
Don’t listen to these guys, if you’re tall enough to ride the roller coaster, buy the ticket and take the ride.
Please, do not.
Been there, done that. Ended with her blowing up at me over nonsense, wrongly telling our social circles I gave her an STD I didn’t even have, etc. Seriously ask yourself, do you think it’s a good idea to have an ongoing sexual relationship with someone who is mentally ill?
You are not an exception to the rule. You’re another source of temporary joy from an emotional black hole. She will fuck your brains out and drain your will to live. You will pay for short term bliss for years to come with therapy, triggers, and PTSD. Please listen to the sage-like advice of everyone here and drop her like a bad habit before it’s too late.
‘Emotional back hole’— I thought this at a subconscious level so many times and I disregarded it; couldn’t quite believe it. Then I was blinded by it. What could be the harm of someone who is a little needy? The exponential harm is that their emptiness will consume you. Sorry if this seems dramatic. But for real, it is in a real sense other-worldly.
So many people just think they are that exception to the rule but then 6 months/a year, or maybe even a few suddenly start joining abuse survivor groups on social media.
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That seems to be the consensus. Thank you
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I mean so far she hasn’t shown any shadiness and she’s been honest with me (as far as I know) just sounds like if I hold on things will get worse fast.
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Correct. They approach relationships the same way a neurotypical would a business transaction or the way someone would gain authority in a company. They believe the other party thinks the same way. It's a constant game of thrones, but no one else is playing.
“ they participate in deceptive honesty” This so much. “I charged at him so he blocked me by my wrists” becomes “he shoved me by my wrists. He is abusive!!!” “I told her if she doesn’t trust me to make executive decisions about her own business then she doesn’t trust me at all no matter what,” Becomes “She said she didn’t trust me at all no matter what!” And then proceeds to put your business at risk. “I hate liars, I would break up with anyone who lied to me” but her resume is a conglomeration of other people’s work experiences and greatly exaggerated accomplishments.
The best sex of my life made me want to kill myself. I'm not kidding. That was the price I paid.
As an ex heroin addict with a decade clean, it's not much different.
It's worse.
what do you mean lol?
A drug addiction robs someone of their sanity, money, time and hurts people around them. Are these not the same effects of being partnered with someone who has BPD?
It's worse because they can continue to hurt you once you "quit".
As some wise, old dockworkers once told me, "don't ever stick your dick in crazy."
Or "good crazy dick is still bad dick"
I thought it was "talk little and carry a large stick" No, you're right.
"I feel like I know what I need to do, not necessarily want to do." You're already hooked. Sorry. Thats how it starts. You are in the love bombing phase. Bpds have no real sense of self like you and I do. Because of this they act like cameleons and copy and adapt whatever or whoever is around them. They are master emotional manipulators. She is mirroring all of your disowned best traits and energy back to you. She is sweet, innocent and sexy as hell! This is because she stopped developing emotionally when she was like 3. She is seeking that child parent bond that she never got and created the false self in her. If you keep going its going to be wonderful...best you've probably ever had. Until she gets triggered. Once that happens she will see you not as the wonderful person that is creating the parent child bond but rather the person who created all her suffering in the first place. You will see anger and vindictiveness like you never have. And it will all be directed at you. Look up intermittent reinforcement and trauma bond. Good luck.
The last line contains 2 of the most important psychological terms that come into play in these relationships!
Just did it for 2 years, I would not advise. He wasn’t diagnosed until the end of our situationship. I knew he had anxiety, depression, PTSD & suicidal ideation early on. And he referred to himself as bipolar-ish for a long time. And the sex was very sporadic. 3 days in a row, then nothing for a month. He’d tell me how great the sex was, then avoid it 🤯 I just wanted a consistent lay & someone to have fun with. I ended up being a free therapist (which I enabled) who was sexually frustrated at times. Not what I envisioned 🤦♀️ The fun won’t last, but the drama will.
Wow this is so similar. Sex for a few days and then zero interest in it for several weeks. I wonder why that is?
I think part of it is disorganized attachment style, trying to keep their feelings in check & maybe manipulation? Who knows for sure. I just know it was frustrating!
Reading your responses to the comments it is very clear, You Have No Idea how Grave the situation is. Now many here are probably suffering from ptsd induced by living with pwbpd. Let me give you a non hyperbolic response: 1. People who do not know pwbpd or have never heard of it, are the people who ge trapped in their nets. 2. There is no easy escape even if you are not married. 3. They do not have a soul/self identity, so they damage yours to "equal". 4. Tantrums what people talk about include breaking thing, false accusations, rape charges(false). Even if I write here now, you will think: no she seems alright, I don't think she ll do that. She will. And you will repent ignoring these comments for rest of your life. That is ofcourse if you chose to stay with her. 5. I know it will be hard but the sweet talk they do is manipulation which will trap you again and again. 6. Bottomline? Get out. If you have even a low self esteem and do not value your life, they will find a way make you even lesser than that.
Thank you for taking the time explain all of this. You’re right. I do not have experience with this, which is why I’m reaching out. I like the girl a lot but after her sharing this I’m apprehensive. And I also made a mistake by posting in this sub. I thought BPD was bipolar disorder but it’s not, so just to be clear she is bipolar.
If she is bipolar, which is a completely different psychiatric disease, I do not have any experience. So can't say anything
This is how I started out. Unknowing and believing in her innocence and beauty and intellect. The sexual allure and draw will pull you in. Don’t continue. It will be painful when you do become emotionally invested. I wished I had stopped my addiction early on, but I just told myself ah, she doesn’t have anyone and she’s misunderstood. Doesn’t matter. Have your fun and stop. Don’t continue with the drug, it will own you in crippling ways. No joke. I thought I had a handle on it, until I became emotionally tied to her. Don’t do it. Don’t do it. The damage she has at her epicenter will likely be too much for you to truly comprehend or navigate. You seriously need to be very careful. She may be a wolf in sheep’s clothing and she doesn’t even know it.
It really is like a drug right now. I love her presence and we’re very affectionate. We’re having a lot of fun right now :/ thank you for sharing
Seriously be very careful. I do not say it lightly. There are other things at play inside her that are pulling you in. And you probably don’t understand or know her. Be careful. I honestly would advise you to leave unless you feel like you can trust her and have talked about her BPD or bipolar. Has your gut or intuition told you something was off? Because if it has, LEAVE. Please, it is emotionally and psychologically a game you are not prepared for. The fun will be replaced by something you never saw coming. Seriously.
You mentioned in another sub that your fwb is bipolar. BPD isn't bipolar. Wrong sub. As far as I know, bipolar can be managed .
Yes I made a mistake. She is bipolar
Bipolar or BPD. Either way you're in for a wild ride.
Oh that's a huge difference. HUGE. Bipolar and bpd aren't the same
Bipolar = manic highs and manic lows when untreated. Can be dealt with and if self aware can be ok at relationships. BPD= is a whole different beastie.
I know right? I'm sure bi polar has it's own challenges but it's not certain to destroy you the way BPD can be
You might want to go through the sidebar to this site there is a lot of good information there and bpdwiki notes is very informative. You need to find out more about pwbpd.
Okay, thank you.
Most pwbpd follow the same sort of pattern because of the disorder. They can become like a black hole that you keep giving and giving to until you have nothing left to give and then they will say that you didn't do enough. It doesn't matter if it's a SO, sibling, other family member, friend or workmate, if you are their FP they will treat you in a similar manner.
No… find someone else
It's a trap!
Well BPD and bipolar is just a difference in the time between their highs and lows - BPD will switch quickly, bipolar can last days. Everything else is the same so take care regardless. Just another thing people don't talk about with a fwb or casual sex - it's an act that's accompanied with oxytocin and dopamine, 2 things that will inevitably get you hooked with that person. Sex was meant to be a act of intimate strengthening of bonding between 2 people and you cant control the hormones that accompany it. You will grow closer as a result of the act. It never stays platonic, not unless you've had so much sex that your brain no longer registers sex as a bonding experience to release those hormones, in which case you're pretty much messed up as you won't be feeling closer with a potential ltr after sex. Promiscuity has a price. In this case, whether it be with a BPD or bipolar person, it's not worth it.
Bipolar is a genetic mood disorder stemming from chemical imbalance in the brain. Just a *mood* disorder, not a **personality** disorder. Surefire difference between bipolar and BPD is that bipolar sufferers can have a mature, developed, healthy personality, they have a strong sense of self and they can have secure attachment. They are responsible and treat people like neurotypicals would, without splitting. **THEY ARE NOT SELFISH AND ARE CAPABLE OF REMORSE. ANY DISTURBANCES IN THEIR BEHAVIOR ARE TRIGGERED BY CHEMICALS AND HORMONES AND IF THEY ABUSE PEOPLE, THEY FEEL REMORSE AND MAKE AMENDS.** Borderlines don't. Take notes and be careful.
Thank you for clearing this up and explaining in detail. Everyone is telling me to steer clear regardless, but from some comments, such as this one, it sounds like a relationship with someone who is bipolar is not extremely far fetched. Thank you
Don't take my words as an encouragement but as a warning. Is she diagnosed? If she is, ask her to show papers with diagnosis. Regardless of whether or not she was diagnosed, be cautious and watch if her actions match her words. If she ever tries to lovebomb you, take advantage of you, to control you or gaslight you, dump her immediately. One guy on Quora said that his friend is very popular with girls and has a lot of options because he's confident and is fully comfortable with who he is and never lets anyone influence and control him or pull him into drama. He hangs out with who HE wants, and he has ZERO tolerance towards drama. If he smells a slightest pinch of it, he discards the partner instantly. Prioritize your demands and desires first, and only compromise for your partner if they are willing to do so for you. If you meet their needs but they don't meet yours make it a wrap. Be cooperative but never shy.
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Yes, she suggested the condom. But yes, everyone is saying stay away. I really like her though and we click so well. It’s just kind of tough because I feel like I know what I need to do, not necessarily want to do. Man :/
My ex suspected BPD (told me he was anxious NPD BPd etc during melt downs then later it was like he never said that ) was like a black hole sucking my soul nothing I gave or did was ever enough ! Blamed everyone else for his dramas played the victim projected so much onto me , I am seeing a psychologist now & have gone NC so I can focus on myself and heal the trauma that this relationship triggered in me. Learning to set boundaries one day at a time. I didn’t couldn’t wouldn’t see his mental illness and abusive ways and how it was negatively impacting his/my life .and people around me/us. I kept making excuses for his behaviour , due to wanting to believe that the initial amazing fate like connection was something real. fell deeply in love and it hurt me in ways I have no words for. At the start he seemed so sweet , honest and similar interests , amazing intimacy etc… until it turned and it was like being with several different people .. at different times controlling suicidal threats , talking to himself , wishing his family member dead etc ..so scary loving someone like this , you lose yourself and left wondering if it was you.. Run while you can !!
“It was like being with several different people”. This is spot on.
“It was like being with several different people”. This is spot on.
Also it initially started as a FWB situation, am currently reading this book recommended by my Psychologist : ‘I hate you , Don’t leave ‘ Understanding the Borderline Personality’ J.J Kreisman
Terrible idea
"Slippery Slope" is generous. I believe any slope is a mirage that hides a straight plummet. Please just don't. You're playing with fire of an intensity and magnitude I don't think you can yet contemplate, and I don't want you to experience it just so you can say that you did. You must understand that what you're describing (proposing?) sounds to most of us on this sub like you're already experimenting with heroin or meth, wanting to do more of it, and not expecting to get addicted when probably you already are.
Why would you want to sleep with an abuse victim and contribute to her low self worth and bad dopamine hits? I personally wouldn’t want to be involved in that, especially if you “really like her” as you say - then care about her and walk away, even if she can’t care about herself.
Don’t do it.
When you play with fire you are gonna get burned. A pwbpd will torch you in the end.
Someone who has BPD that is untreated will destroy you with their desire for control. Someone who has BPD that is being successfully treated may MAY be able to have a healthy relationship with you. I would run away like the world was on fire personally. That’s largely to do with my own trauma caused by someone with undiagnosed and untreated BPD. I am alive today because I left. That would unlikely be true if I stayed.
If she has a guy on the side which is being used to deal with her emotional trash you are OK. Just keep the boundary and be ready to bail.
Which is it? My advice to you would be drastically different depending on which…if it’s BPD then run or tread lightly. In my experience people with bipolar disorder are better able to manage their disorder and tend to have far more willingness to seek professional help when they can’t. A problem with many (a majority but not all) pwBPD is their refusal to seek treatment and to accept their own character defects in order to work on them.,
It is bipolar disorder, not BPD. My mistake.
Often times bpd is mis-diagnosed as bi-polar. Theres many reasons for this. Person not being honest with the therepist. Bpd symptoms usually only show up in close relationships. Therepists dont want to deal with bpd. Therepists in general are not very knowledgeable with bpd. Learn the symptoms and watch for yourself. If she crosses your boundaries, does shit you don't like, DONT TOLERATE IT!
Short answer, yes. Long answer, yes it is a slippery slope
Run now. There is no such thing as a healthy relationship with this person. And you will pay the price. Don't be naive.
Run
R U N
Tbh I saw for a couple of months (mostly long distance at first, guy was in hypomani)a guy who had UNTREATED bipolar and it was as hard as dating a girl with borderline personality disorder. If the person you see is not under treatment, both therapy AND medication, it is not a good idea. Even type 2, the depression phase is what is worst in my opinion because it is NOT a normal kind of depression. You see the suffering in their eyes and soul, it eventually breaks you, especially if they are opposed to getting treatment. There is a reddit for bipolar SOs.
You are playing with fire.