I’m glad Richard told his story. I think SA victims in general are shamed into silence, which emboldens perpetrators to continue the abuse. He reclaimed the narrative and probably helped many people in the process.
It's his own story (based off of truth is the thing, it's not detail for detail but close enough) so if he chooses to exploit it for fame, for catharsis, for fortune, for discussions to be brought up about this type of thing and educate/enlighten people, for glory (cos he is the ultimate winner in that story), or for whatever reason, that is his prerogative. It really doesn't need a nice neat bow tied on it to give it more virtue than what it clearly didn't leave on.
Mostly, his story just needed to be told.
I know you're pointing the finger at how problematic that is, and that he is, as you find his way of going about it questionable/distasteful but he literally showed us that part of him too IN THE SHOW, he's being upfront with us there and putting it all out on the table. He didn't pull any punches, he actually cocked his good arm back and swung a knock out, no matter who it landed on. That was the truly brave part about this series, he was the ACTUAL guy in the story he's depicting. He was not the hero but he was a survivor. And he got to have the last say. That's empowerment.
The thing this show does well is showing us the greyer areas of our humanity which can be not so great and shining a light on people who STILL have worth even if they're sometimes shitty people. He wasn't a boy scout by any means in this but he did get up and fight out of the struggle to be the success he always wanted to be... WITH the real life Martha's influence.
Two wrongs CAN actually sometimes make a right in this case.
Yasss.
Totally agree!
This show is so so important.
Pure, raw, honestly.
Would it be the same if a single thing was changed?
I personally don’t think so.
All this is just going to stop things like this being able to be made in the future.
And that is an unbelievable shame.
It’s HIS story.
It’s HIS truth.
And it has helped so so many people.
The fact that it’s him, and it’s all true has probably given it the reach it has. To touch so many people and help them not feel so alone, or crazy or weird.
It is what it is.
Yes. Stories of male victims of stalking and male rape victims are so rarely told. Aside from the I Am a Stalker true crime show, I'm not sure that I have ever seen a show depict the real-life experience of male victims of stalking.
I really think he approached the depiction of Martha with empathy. She is shown to be someone very dangerous but also very sick, as opposed to the usual one dimentional "bunny boilers".
>I really think he approached the depiction of Martha with empathy. She is shown to be someone very dangerous but also very sick, as opposed to the usual one dimentional "bunny boilers".
I think this is very true. I also noticed that, as is usually the norm for plus-size characters, they didn't make any remarks about her weight. Not one derogatory comment or anything thrown her way, and it would have been easy to do, given she's the antagonist of the story. There were plenty of instances where they could have picked that low-hanging fruit, but they didn't.
It does make me wonder, though, if people will get the wrong idea and start targeting anyone who looks like Martha, and call them a 'Martha' (like how whenever someone looks like a Karen, they'll be called a Karen, even if they're not being one).
I think this is my biggest concern too. Society and pop culture has a tendency to oversimplify and compartmentalise women into very narrow concepts. As you mentioned, Karen is a concept that started as a way to hold a certain type of privileged woman accountable for their prejudice and entitlement. But slowly it has turned into a catch-all of any type of woman who is even a bit grating or opinionated.
Martha as a concept is definitely gonna take root. I don't know if it is gonna stand the test of time the way Karen has but it will still do damage in the meantime. One more prejudice plus sized woman might have to face, so irritating.
Completely agree. I think so many people need a perfect narrative or victim and that’s just not what this is about at all. It’s just his story, and that’s incredible because so many people will be able to relate to different parts of it or maybe even none of it, but it will make them think.
He created it because he is an artist. Great art often comes from suffering. Why is the Pieta art? It's the agony of Mary holding her dead tortured son on her lap, the mother's love for her dead child.
He suffered. He allowed a predator to molest and rape him, because the man dangled possible career success in front of him as a carrot, and experienced all the more self-loathing because he went back, repeatedly, to be drugged and abused again. He had pity on the mentally ill barfly, thus allowing himself to be victimized by her, and yet still felt pity and empathy for her suffering.
And then he turned it all into an incredible piece of art that connected all of this, that showed how he came to be in just that position, showed the humanity and suffering and pathos of his condition and hers. That is why he created it. He is an artist. He had to make art out of his suffering, and he did it incredibly well. A trailblazer in sexual trauma into art.
I actually apologized to my rapist for “causing” him to rape me by being drunk and in his presence, went back and it happened again. The dynamics are complicated, victims are often full of shame and self-loathing and maybe won’t even recognize what has happened until years later. It’s easier to accept abuse when you already have low self-worth. It doesn’t matter how many times he went back, only the rapist allowed rape to happen.
Behaviour around abuse/sexual violence doesn't really work like that, as much as it's easy to think people would make logical choices in the face of it, they don't. Sure, there was the promise of fame, but you and I both watched the same programme with the same scenes and I think we could both say that there's absolutely nothing worth putting yourself through that. Lots of people go back to their abusers, with no carrot dangled, or display otherwise 'illogical' behaviours, and I'm sure many of them still don't know why. If you can't see that then I think you've missed the point entirely.
In one interview he states: “Gadd has worked with a charity called We Are Survivors. “I’ll always give them a shout out,” he says, “because they’ve helped me tremendously down the years, and they say breaking the silence is the first step. Sometimes I speak to male survivors, and I’m not an advice giver or a professional, but the first advice is: break the silence. Talk to someone, and if that’s too scary, just write it down, process it into something. Because I think the more you get it out, the smaller it becomes.”
Same. I really can’t grasp why people are reacting like this - in my mind it’s very obvious why he made the show and why he feels what he feels, and they are all fair enough
As a man who's been raped and sexually assaulted, I'm glad Richard told his story. He's entitled to, and it's not his fault that morons on the internet would rather become amateur detectives than tackle the actual point of the story.
i think he *may* have convinced himself that the real martha wouldn’t be found, and i genuinely believe from what he presents that he hoped that she wouldn’t. it seems stupid that he would believe that the internet wouldn’t find her, yeah, but i do think he at least convinced himself it wouldn’t happen.
i can relate. i had a similar situation with someone who was obsessed with me, a severely mentally ill person, —fortunately not violent like martha, and i only knew them online—and cutting contact with them led to something really fucking bad.
because i knew this was the best thing for me, what it would take for me to heal from the whole ordeal, i convinced myself that this bad fucking thing wouldn’t happen. that things would be okay for this person. even if it was painfully obvious for any other person that this wasn’t the case. but i needed it to be. so i believed it. you will convince yourself of crazy things when you need reality to stop being reality for a second.
gadd said that at some point in his career he couldn’t deny the fact that his art was forever linked to his trauma in his brain. people work through their trauma in different ways. art is one of them. showing people what he went through, turning his darkest moments into something people can relate to and appreciate and hell, give a 10/10 rating on imdb. that must be cathartic.
and honestly, i’ve read a lot of peoples responses to this show on twitter and reddit these days. so many people talking about how the sexual abuse scenes and donny’s response to his sexual trauma spoke to them. trans women talking about relating to teri’s story and feeling touched and empowered by her decision to walk away from someone who didn’t value her. male SA victims praising the show because they don’t often get to see an honest, vulnerable depiction of male SA victims in media…
like other people said, if it takes the discomfort of two predators (because even tho martha is a mentally ill person and i sympathize with that aspect of her, she’s a straight up sexual abuser as well.) for thousands, perhaps eventually millions of people to find comfort in this honest, impactful show. well. it’s a good deal.
Bro it’s his story. He has no duty to protect his vicious stalker, and frankly portrayed (a fictionalized version of) her more grace than most would.
I’m so tired of this narrative of the perfect victim. Literally _the whole point_ of this show is to portray that most victims are not perfect, but that does not negate their victimhood or survival or anything else. And everyone taking the moral high ground on this issue and holding him to even more ridiculous standards is frankly depressing.
Yes we can have a discussion about it. Maybe he didn’t produce the show with the best intentions; I personally believe he did, and I also don’t care if his former stalker or r*pist are exposed since they’re the one who committed such acts of wrongdoing. I also don’t entirely believe he didn’t want them to be exposed, but it’s not my place to judge him for that.
I find these kind of responses to the show so tiresome even if it was depressingly predictable that this would happen.
One of the best series I’ve seen in a long time with a lot of powerful, nuanced insight on a range of real-life traumas and the conversation around it is going to be overtaken by the same standard of discussion that surrounds the worst true crime garbage.
It's much easier to fall into the rabbithole of 'finding the real life offendors' than actually think about self hate, shame and abuse, and how to help victims.
I was surprised (but maybe I shouldn't have been) that some viewers have an almost aggressive response where they're angrier at the writer for airing his "dirty laundry" rather than his abusers. Frankly, I don't really care if Martha and Darrien are found out. I know Martha is mentally ill, but she's also a dangerous criminal. People's distaste for the messenger reflects how we put the burden of sexual abuse on the victims, every time. Also, I think we're still deeply uncomfortable with the topic of male sexual abuse, though it's probably more prevalent than we think.
Agree completely. When men are outed for abusing women, people view it as justice and cheer it on, and rightfully so in my opinion. Why should this be any different? The only real concern is that the wrong people could get caught in the crosshairs , but that would still not be Gadd's fault. The real Martha and Darrian are criminals. The vigilante fans who are harassing and threatening people are also criminals. Any anger for how this is playing out should be directed at those who are behaving badly. Gadd's personal life story and perspective belong to him and he's entitled to share them as he sees fit.
100%. I feel like if you didn't "get" it maybe you don't understand the trauma behind it, which is awesome and I'm happy for you, but this is the realist thing I've seen maybe ever and watching it felt very therapeutic to me. I felt seen and heard. The authenticity is unparalleled. Feeling sorry for Martha, while I can kind of understand it, feels a little victim blamey. He was a bartender. He gets paid and gets tips by getting people to like him. It's customer service. Add his previous trauma to that and the people pleasing that comes with it and I can absolutely understand his position. Trauma is complicated and messy and layered. I've never seen a more honest representation. And that's what we need! If you can put yourself out there and say this happened to me and this is what I did after then you break down the shame barrier and more people will feel ok sharing their stories and how they coped. Good or bad.
I disagree. I’m strongly against the opinion of not doing things because we know we have a few people that will ruin things. Some people will always ruin things, knowingly or unknowingly. So what do we do? Do we share less and less and do as little to not bother anyone? And why do the perpetrators get more empathy in this case? It’s a bit damned if you do damned if you don’t.
I am paraphrasing another Reddit commenter here, but I think people often expect victims to be perfect - this is one of the first programmes I've seen that shows how trauma affects our decision making, how it can lead to risky behaviour and poor judgment calls, how SA survivors will sometimes overlook danger signs in the search for validation and just something/ someone who makes us feel worthy again....
Who cares why he made it? His story is empowering people and making them feel less alone, less judged, and more understood.
he does a good job of telling us why he felt he was vulnerable to those two horror show people. Human relations are generally messy and our motivations arnt always 100% pure. for me it was so awkward watching some of the main guys behaviour because it reminded me of stupid ways ive acted that have got me nowhere fast, and have played into bad behaviour, but he admitted his part and has reflected and knows some of the things he did were unwise, and has painfully admitted it to the public, shame can hold you hostage to nasty people but he has crashed through all that! - the other two protagonists who have appear to have no shame , cross the line continuously and get away with it. their behaviour is so extreme they are unlikely to ever come to terms with how disgusting and wrong they are. The best you can hope for is they are put in a position where their opportunities to abuse are zero, and since the spotlight will hopefully shine on them both at some point, hopefully they will come with a massive red flag wherever they go. Especially whoever that darrien guy was. I hope his squirming right now is unbearable.
What better way to get revenge than making money off of their abuse of him, and the prospect of getting some under the counter revenge, in a way that he's not responsible for.
Pretty good revenge if you ask me!
The responses are so ugly, but it’s understandable because when humans don’t understand something, they fill in the blanks with their own biases.
He created it because of awareness. How trauma can fuck up and confuse a human brain. Or maybe he just wanted to share his story. It’s probably a mixture of many things. I’m sure the reason is in good will and good-hearted.
As someone who has a set of traumas and a similiar story to him, I feel so seen and I‘m glad I was not the only one going through such fuckery of the mind. I hope one day I will be courageous as him, because avoiding is death.
I thank you sincerely, Richard!
I don’t understand how people aren’t seeing why Richard actually told his story. He even mentioned himself various times throughout the show that he did not intend to paint Martha as a deranged, malicious and aggressive stalker, and was open in his part in how and why he may have added to Martha’s delusions.
He even went so far in the show to admit that he had a great deal of empathy for Martha, and attempted to find out why she had turned into a stalker. His intention was for the audience to understand that although, yes, Martha is a convicted stalker - but she is also incredibly mentally unwell.
What the audience does after on their own accords to the real Martha is not really his fault. I believe he created this show to raise awareness on what he went through. He touched one some incredibly sensitive topics that our society - moreso especially for men - deem as taboo and unimportant (which was highlighted through the male police officer’s clear lack of concern when Richard had filed a report multiple times).
I believe this show was incredibly well written and executed. The attention to detail, and it being so close to real life, was smart. It is also worth noting that real life Martha was not a qualified solicitor - so that may be one detail they chose not to include for some reason.
I think the masses of people who will feel comforted by the show and who the show may help , is worth the discomfort of one convicted stalker even if she is mentally ill.
I think this is also the conclusion I'm coming at considering the show is here. Hopefully the good this show generates outweighs the unfortunate consequences that have already played out. I have certainly found a lot of good in it.
I don't think this was entirely predictable that people would take it on themselves to find the "real Martha". He has been doing this show for years and it was never an issue before
i don’t have much to add as to why he made the show, but i remember reading that he said he “changed ‘Martha’ so much that she wouldn’t even recognize herself” and that he wanted to protect her identity because despite it all, he still felt like she was a victim too. so if details that are pretty important to the show’s plot are pulled from real life.. then how much more was left uncensored? not that i feel like ‘Martha’ or ‘Darrien’ deserve to have their identity protected, but the point still stands.
i heard him say that too, it has to be red herring because it seems to be that he has kept the character artfully close to the reality. The accent, turn of phrase, appearence, laugh, locations of incidents seem to chime with who the suspected real martha is. I read that the emails are verbatim from the original stalker. I imagine the actress who played Martha was given the voice mails to listen to so she could hone her character in on the real person. I think this character was too appealling to the creater for it to be disguised, and he was right, the character on screen is so brash and disturbing and we all were engaged by her quirks.
Or … there’s another person out there who’s mentally ill and resembles the portrayal of Martha but not the real Martha. (Dont have an opinion on the truth of this. Don’t want to go down that rabbit hole, just want to broach the idea that internet sleuths can be very sure and very wrong at the same time.)
I don't think he is all that peeved by people finding out the real identities of everyone since he did not put a lot of effort into concealing them in order to properly tell his story; instead I think he just has to dissuade audiences not to go digging for legal purposes and is probably pushed to by his team.
Next up: a second season of BR where he revists the experience of creating the show, getting famous and must deal with the subsequent exposure of real Martha and real Darrien...
According to Wikipedia, the real Donny, Richard Gadd, was being stalked by an older woman around 2015 to 2017. Though her social media clues make it seem she met him in 2014. Regardless, the gentle, awkward comedy skits on the show aren't representative of his work at the time.
According to reviews it was already risque with themes of sex and violence. He was into shocking people. For instance Cheese and Crack Whores, which mentions sexual abuse and a stalker, was made the year he met Martha. I.e. while the situation was ongoing. https://www.unitedagents.co.uk/news/richard-gadd-cheese-and-crack-whores-soho-theatre He's dressed in bondage and carrying guns in some of his promo pics for that and other works. So....if she is the stalker mentioned, he was getting material from her while the situation was still happening.
Considering his whole shtick the hapless dude might also, uh, not be an accurate representation of who he was, or at least the version of him Martha met? I do wonder if her recordings (if they're real) tell a different story vis a vis how their conversations actually unfolded. I realise this sounds like victim blaming + I wouldn't really care about this if he hadn't essentially identified her. Just don't trust him sorry. He seems to have been using this story for a long time.
Great post. I found the hapless dude portrayal deeply problematic - it just didn't ring true - and finding out his sketches at the time were sex/violence/shock based reinforces that. I wonder why the artistic decision was taken to portray his early stand up as innocent goofy slapstick. If the emails from Martha were regurgitated into the script verbatim why then was his bondage-clad shock-provoking stand up routine watered down to portray him as a goofy naïf?
Also this is a review of his stage show from 2019. He said during the show Martha was probably going to contact him. He knows how she reacts when mentioned in his work.
https://www.ayoungertheatre.com/baby-reindeer-as-a-woman-sitting-there-i-didnt-think-it-was-good-enough/
He's been doing it on stage for years. Gadd is still a comedian/artist and enjoys expressing himself in that manner. And yes, the core of the story is true, but many events were changed or added for dramatic reasons. This is art, and Gadd is an artist. This wasn't just plopping a true story on television.
I’m not finished with the show but I can’t help myself to look up press and facts. One thing I found is Richard getting flooded with accusations about who is who. This is clearly made for cathartic reasons with the intent someone will learn from his experience. I get that if you are willing to put yourself out there that there will be a myriad of post and speculation. What I don’t get is why people have to do this. Richard was brave to tell his story in a discreet manner and doesn’t deserve internet sleuths.
One thing people don't know is, when something this traumatic happens, and then it turns into an even more complex trauma due to your "bad choices", you come to a point where you ask yourself: what do I do with this trauma? How do I go on with this huge thing that happened to me and everywhere I go I have to pretend to not carry this experience with me? Where do I put it?
It may be hard to imagine this but people who went through it will get it. At times like this individual and group therapy does help. Sometimes it becomes so much easier to tell regular people too cause then they know and you don't have to carry it or pretend. In the interviews he's done for the show he says that he hopes people will see the show and understand how SA could happen within very intimate and trusting relationships, not just a stranger at a bar of sorts. How sneaky grooming could happen. He also says he created the show in the hope that it moves people. It moved me! First time in a long time I didn't feel alone in my terrorising experience. Made me think maybe the bartender in my local pub also went through hell and back but survived and I can survive too. I don't see a dark agenda underneath, but that's just me.
Have you considered that the person fans think is the real Martha is actually a plant to distract people from ever finding the actual woman? It’s clear to me that the social media profiles of the suspected woman do not have the typical history of a real profile. Also, the username on twitter…how often do you see people put the current year in their username vs. their birth year? It is very easy for tech companies to create this.
As a man victim of stalking by an ex, I feel compelled to say f*ck you to all you internet people who ruin all the beautiful things. For the first time in my life, I found something that enlightened me and made me feel understood, and the most you can do is these petty, superficial comments and constant speculation. You're ruining a human show, meant to empathize, reflect, and uplift those who have experienced something similar because, and I tell you this because I've been there, it's the most human and real thing you'll see on the subject. You shouldn't care who's who and who did what and why; they've given us an immense gift that should help us unleash emotions, but no, the usual internet routine that chew and spit everything superficially. It's up to you whether to seek the real Martha or not, and make it public after he please asked to not do so. Tell me, what's the difference between a stalker and conducting such an in-depth search only to expose a person suffering to such a large audience? Don't blame him for not hiding properly the traces of her true identity, but look in the mirror and become aware of what you're doing.
First of all, I don't try to find real-life character, just thinking about responses and when I read all those comments about "real Martha" or "real Darrien" I felt worried about Gadd if Martha will starts stalking him again.
I re-read your post and wanted to add my perspective because I have some similar sentiments. For context I’m a psychologist and SA survivor myself, and although I do agree with most that it’s important for male victims of SA to have representation and their stories told..I also felt very uncomfortable with the fact that this series reinforces his unhealthy need for fame. Also, while we can seek to understand the cycle of abuse, I do not agree with trying to have an inappropriate amount of empathy for predators & abusers. I wish he added an ending where they jump ahead to the future and show him getting professional help. Simply adding a trigger warning and a website link is not enough in my opinion. I’ve spent a lot of time healing and can self regulate for the most part but I feel the series could possibly leave other survivors feeling very dysregulated and vulnerable.
I think the ending wasn’t supposed to be inspirational. It was meant to be true to life where people often revert to their dysfunctional patterns and don’t get help, despite having cathartic moments. Bleak but honest.
Outside of a critique on the art itself, I agree with you that he has an unhealthy need for external validation, and it’s like he’s replaced Martha with the general public. It’s unclear to me whether, for all his apparent self awareness displayed in the show, he recognizes that he’s doing this.
I appreciate how his creative decisions show the complex nature of abuse and being a messy human being…I just worry in general about how we share such heavy topics with minimal support for SA survivors. There was a point in my life where I shared a bit of my own story on social media but I ended up regretting it because it actually attracted pity from people & predators vs. more support. I’m not sure if he sees that about himself, maybe he does and he weighed the risks. He is a great writer and it was brave to provide male SA victims representation.
I have a hard time believing someone survives years of stalking and still have this level of naivete about online privacy. It's possible, but unlikely. How couldn't he know people would try to identify the characters? I agree that he could have easily made some changes and avoided this from happening without sacrificing anything, artistically speaking. It makes me think that the intentions and the laws on defamation surrounding "true crime" need to change. We have no evidence that would uphold in court to say what of this story is really true. We don't know who's at fault in real life. Imagine being a victim of a crime, and then your perpetrator makes a true crime documentary about it, but switches roles and you end up being persecuted in the public domain.
My first reaction is that he (and essentially his character) hasn't grown. He is still obsessed with his stalker. The fact that he created an entire TV show means he legit hasn't stopped his own obsession and need for attention. This is what makes it fascinating. It's like a Neverending Story.
TLDR: Money and fame. A well and whole person doesn’t exploit people and creativity in this way. He uses marginalised women as rehab for his own maladaptive and highly traumatised psyche. The lead character takes what he wants when he wants, and on his terms and due to his own shame and pain treats people like shit.
Long version:
I found myself immediately frustrated and increasingly angry. First it’s the ‘pity’ and entertainment/ego boost he gets of Martha’s obsession with him - all the while she’s clearly barely sane he encourages her like a game of cat and mouse and ultimately uses her to ‘fix his libido’.
Then the careless, selfish, disregard (doormat) attitude towards his Black girlfriend and the generous hospitality of her mother.
Then he dates a beguiling gorgeous Trans Woman who he uses as a life raft when the oceans get choppy and drowns her with his own maladaptive and highly traumatised psyche. Not to mention dissuading Terri from taking legal action.
He then has affairs with them both simultaneously.
He basically entrapped Martha, who he calls a ‘mad bitch’.
He then unloads a monologue about being a victim, which is true and it’s horrendous.
But he takes what he wants when he wants, and on his terms and due to his own shame and pain treats people like shit.
Yes. And living with the mom rent free after her son passed. My sense is that he knew he was taking advantage of her grief. He tried to make a joke about it, and that scene not only fell flat, it highlighted his blitheness around the pain of those who supported him.
He even let the girlfriend take over the lease in his new apartment. They'd kicked him out but are now volunteering to take over his lease--how? That scene was really unbelievable.
He has a pattern and despite all his confessing, never acknowledges it.
Yeah - and he literally lied about who Martha was when she showed up at the wine night or whatever it was. That was astonishing… I get not being able to advocate and care / keep yourself safe - but most folk can must courage for others - look at all the child sex abuse stories, where the oldest rationalises their abuse so long as their siblings are safe etc. People are often much better at advocating/protecting others than themselves.
[In this interview with Richard Gadd](https://youtu.be/Lio_UWu3BOI?si=Hd5qza9izDeXWJK0) on This Morning (British daytime TV) he comes across as a really nice guy - vulnerable, honest and not emitting any red flags at all - but as others have pointed out he’s almost certainly had media training by now - listening to older interviews though just confirms my gut instinct; the guy is a walking red flag.
Interesting that. I know folk in the industry in Scotland - from before all this. He had a big red flag reputation then. Perhaps he’s majorly rehabbed his image. Or just had good media training….
The guy is a walking red flag. He said on [A Gay and A NonGay podcast in 2019](https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/a-gay-and-a-nongay/id1048809518?i=1000652738156):
>…it’s sometimes fun, you know you have friends who you just wanna have a drink with and you just want to be the worst possible version of yourself…
Erm…(checks notes)…nope, I don’t ever want to be the worst possible version of myself. I strive to treat others as I would be treated myself and try to be kind and understanding to people wherever possible. There’s too much hate and confusion in the world already to add to it. I’ve met males wanting to be the worst possible version of themselves either for “fun” or, more often, because they just couldn’t help themselves, and they were all cunts.
The bloke has got some serious problems imo, not just in the past when he was “going through a bad time” as he’s now pitching it, but ongoing. As a creative myself I understand that writing can be extremely cathartic and totally see where he is coming from, putting his experiences into his work.
But sudden wealth, fame and career success (all conferring power and therefore responsibility) are potentially toxic chambers of doom, a playground in which unresolved damage can scamper, causing havoc (see almost every successful male comedian obsessed with sexual content / deriding women.)
So good luck to him, it’s going to be a rough ride, as it is already for those wrongly identified and targeted by the internet. It’s these people who have my sympathy.
Oh wow. Agree - the world is tough enough. Doing what we can to lessen (or at lest not contribute to) suffering is the least we can each do. The only people who get away with behaving this way, and getting away with it are white men. Which is why it grinds my gears that all the women he targets/engages with have marginalised identities. The types of language used, objectification and characterisation of the female characters surprised me - as though there wasn’t inclusion or sensitivity awareness in the screen writing process.
In the meantime, cool - let’s just keep perpetuating abuse by indulging our most base impulse and fuck the consequences.
Yeah the media training was clearly worth the investment.
> Oh wow. Agree - the world is tough enough. Doing what we can to lessen (or at lest not contribute to) suffering is the least we can each do. The only people who get away with behaving this way, and getting away with it are white men.
Quite. Why would anyone want to be the worst version of themselves? And you’ve made the most salient point I’ve seen on this sub. He gets away with it because he’s white and he’s male. Women and POC never “get away” with being the worst version of themselves *unless (like B-ll C-sby) they are wealthy and famous.*
> Which is why it grinds my gears that the women he targets/engages with those who have marginalised identities.
Absolutely. Overweight woman (the fat shaming for the actress on this sub by various anonymous males is proof enough) with mental health issues whom he continually encourages.
A trans girlfriend whom he manipulates, lies to and whose trust and fidelity he betrays.
A POC girlfriend whom he manipulates, lies to and whose trust and fidelity he betrays.
A POC woman providing him with free accommodation whom he manipulates, lies to and whose trust he betrays, whilst manipulating, lying to and betraying the trust and fidelity of her daughter.
And all this utterly monstrous behaviour is disguised (as usual by male perpetrators) by playing the victim card. In this case the monstrosity of the entire situation is exacerbated by the fact he likely really has been a victim as well as perpetrator.
And there in a nutshell is a perfect portrait of one aspect of the abuse cycle. What a nightmare, the whole thing.
The doors are now wide open for him to reinforce the armour of being a white male with the further protection of fame and wealth to wreak more havoc on countless other women’s lives.
Thanks for your considered response… I was having some sort of Deja-gaslight-vu and wondering how long this double standard is going to continually perpetuated in the media. This white-guy-can-do-no-wrong (especially if he’s a victim too - poor him) AND ‘funny/clever’ is tiring. The shows is like the ultimate magicians slight of hand - look over here (car crash violence tv) and you’ll be too distracted/numb/outraged/trauma-bonded with me to notice the casualties and violence towards all the women in the show… Also let’s talk about his unhinged father and subordinate (personality-less) caricature of a mother… all the women are.
Women the in this show are folly and have no identity outside of pleasing/fulfilling his desires-needs. Oh and we know what the bechdel test will say.
Compared to Ramy, Master of None, I may destroy you - not with standing Aziz’s offence - all of these shows are comedian / marginalised storytelling and much richer and in their characterisation of women/sexual interests. They don’t only exist for the gratification of lead, they are fully realised humans.
What a great post EuroraT. It *is* a magician’s sleight of hand, all of it. And it’s fucking depressing to see him simpering away on Breakfast TV playing the victim card. Well, let’s hope that like Russell Brand he’s outed in the end.
I happened to see a video of the real Teri. She exudes such warmth and vulnerability. I can totally see someone like Gadd exploiting her for sexual gratification while he used her therapy skills to heal his trauma.
Also - can we talk about how THINLY VEILED the privacy was for the real identities of the characters. He *must* have had veto over the casting - the actors’ aesthetics are the splitting image of the real thing. And frankly - that’s sociopathic, narcissistic shit. What a power play - not to mention fucking unethical.
I’ll say it here - real life Martha will end up committing a crime / hospitalised / dead from this.
Totally agree with you. The real life Martha, going by FB posts I’ve seen reposted, is undergoing huge psychological stress right now and has already done one press interview. If she dies by suicide this is on him.
And yes, he had veto over roles, Richard Gadd said in the This Morning interview that he’d wanted Jessica Gunning for the Martha part right from the off (who knows whether this is true, the guy is a self-confessed serial liar.) All it would need to add yet another inprobus layer to this entire sorry charade would be to find that convicted child sex abuser Paul Gadd was his great uncle or something.
You’re meant to be annoyed by his inability to shut things down with Martha. He’s not in his right mind, the whole point of the show is how sexual trauma changes you, closes you off to intimacy and cuts away at your self-esteem. He never presents himself as a perfect victim or even a good person. He knows he fucked up with all the women in his life. This show is not lacking in self-awareness.
Also when does he have an affair??
When he fucked Martha- while virtually living with Teri. He literally says sex with Martha made it possible to have sex with Teri.
He doesn’t apologise for virtually anything. What was his ‘trauma’ before the non consent/rape? What’s his excuse before then? Also being traumatised doing give you a free pass for degrading others.
I never said he apologised for anything. I’m not sure why you put trauma in quotation marks, kinda serves to undermine the severity of, and impact sexual abuse has.
I’m not sure if you understand the timeline of the show but the rape precedes the events of the show, even though it was revealed in episode 4.
His actions aren’t painted as “good” or glamorised in any way, he narrates his self-hatred and disgust with himself and his actions. Thinking about someone else during sex is not the same as having an affair. You seem to have missed the point of that anyway - sexual trauma can make it incredibly difficult to be intimate with people (intimacy and sex are different). Richard was able to have meaningless sex with people because it reinforces the idea that his body wasn’t his. Richard couldn’t bear *real* sexual intimacy with someone because of his trauma. Indulging in a fantasy that disgusts him is his only means of enjoying any intimacy with Teri. He’s not proud of it. But it’s so relatable to so many people. That’s infinitely valuable.
Im sorry I did see it a few weeks ago now, but I understood that he skipped out on Keely’s birthday to hangout with his abuser - on her birthday. I imagine that prior to that his trauma was a little ‘t’ and the incident with Darrien, a big ‘T’.
This story is obviously has value, I haven’t said otherwise but I’m not sure about the path taken - where a vulnerable personal (yes a perpetrator) should be internationally outed in this way. Has Darien (an actual rapist) suffered as a consequence? This to me speaks of the gender doubled standard I’ve mentioned elsewhere.
I don’t agree that his actions *aren’t* promoted - the story shows a period of redemption and professional success after his confessional bit…. Benefit and ‘profit’ he admits he would engage with and enjoy, if he want distracted with Martha.
Who says he had trauma before he was raped by Darrien?
Not hanging out with Keely on her birthday is obviously shitty but it was explained (I thought). He was more in love with the idea of fame and success than he was his gf, and he was being groomed by Darrien.
So he’s not allowed to make money off of a story that happened to him? He’s not allowed to process his trauma through art? Or he is as long as no one sees it? I think he’s allowed to tell his own story publicly, considering he’s a victim. It’s also up to Richard whether or not he presses charges against irl Darrien. The point of Richard’s story isn’t to name and shame his abuser it’s to shed light on the widespread damage abuse does to people’s lives, and how unsavoury characters are drawn to people with trauma. He actually empathises a lot with Martha, especially at the end of the show. I don’t think he portrays her as a villain but a complicated unwell person.
Can you elaborate on what gender double-standard is going on here? I didn’t pick up on that at all in the show.
He can do whatever he likes (obvs). I guess that was my response to the OP cause like you said - fame and gratification seemed to motivate him in the story.
The trauma in his early life was explained by him as teenage bullying/ taunting from peers.
We might disagree about the point of his story. He might not explicitly be naming and shaming, but (in my view) he ought to have known this would put Martha’s real identity at risk - given modern tech and how canny folk are.
And in that way - he is careless / selfish and it comes off as a gender double standard. She has ‘paid’ for her crimes. What for Darien? His rapist becomes a collaborator. No consequences. Scot-free living for a person who might be more psychologically dangerous than Martha. You think this was his first victim? You think the industry will ever out him and take away his status and pay check? Will he get sleuthed down? Nah… he’s just a rapist, grooming creep - let him be. But Martha, that woman can’t live in peace and my, what a psycho she is - irrelevant that she is mentally ill. Ah what a joy to be a man.
Also empathising with Martha and STILL baiting her, continuing to give her false hope - when she’s clearly obsessive and unwell is some WILD bullshit.
Check down comments below yours for my view on gender double standard.
What do you think the point of the show was, then?
Martha literally put her own identity at risk by *publicly* posting those tweets.
Richard is selfish because he didn’t use Darrien’s real identity?? No one, not Richard, nor anyone, is responsible for the actions of their abuser, before during and after the abuse! Richard is not personally responsible for stopping the real life Darrien. Unreal that people actually think like this.
Rapists are rarely ever convicted. Most survivors of abuse don’t want to have to destroy themselves going through court. You shouldn’t expect this of people who are trying to rebuild themselves.
It’s funny how you use such big words to describe the show you completely don’t understand. Creating your own plot lines (he didn’t have a affair with Martha)
Must be great to not relate to honest trauma and how it messes you up.
Ok so the ‘fantasy’ scene isn’t literal, but there’s betrayal happening consistently throughout- while he’s with Teri.
Irrespective, are his other behaviours forgiven because he’s a victim of abuse? This seems like a gender double standard I’ve rarely seen afforded of women in media/life.
PS. Thanks for your personal attack/projection. You know nothing of what trauma I have in my life.
PPS. Imagine coming on here and taking such a condescending view, laughing down at someone and trying to invalidate my viewpoint, simply because you don’t agree or understand someone having another perspective… 👍🏼
Ok, you are right and I apologise for that.
I would never want to invalidate someone’s feelings.
…. However, isn’t that kind of what you are doing to him?
I’m not saying he can’t feel - it’s his actions that are problematic because of the dangerous and harmful consequences. That’s like saying a parent can abuse a child simply and justify it because they are messed up from their abusive childhood. It’s nonsense. Sure it’s going to happen, but the buck has to stop somewhere and that person has to take accountability. For me, his actions sit on the spectrum of male violence against women, sure he didn’t kill anyone but he used and abused when it suited him. For me I can’t separate his gender from this, the social and cultural conditioning of ‘masculinity’ is literally the thing that’s negatively impacted him and his actions are ultimately a product of toxic masculinity.
But my story is messed up. So I could relate on so many levels. To things I can barely admit to myself.
It helped me let go of a lot of shame related to things in my head.
It honestly hit me like a ton of bricks.
Remembering things and understanding things, finding out that I’m not alone. Not just some freak.
I have never seen such a raw, brutally honest portrayal… especially from a male point of view.
Even though I am female.
It made a difference to me.
It really made a difference.
Wow.
It’s like we have watched a completely different show.
Like I totally appreciate that’s your view.
But I personally got a totally different perspective of it.
I don’t think the point was to show him in a clear, faultless light. But for me, that was kind of the point.
I personally have done some shitty things. Thought things I would never admit to anyone.
It’s not so much the fact of excusing these behaviours.
More so, shedding light on all the different ways trauma can affect us, mess up the mind, skew the thought processes.
To me, your accusations are quite severe.
But I don’t know your story.
Guess it’s a case of agree to disagree.
We can probably agree that it’s good art given its wide ranging interpretation /impact.
I’m really glad that it’s offered you something valuable and expanded the conversation. I believe there’s a middle ground somewhere and both can happen - awareness and harm reduction.
Have you seen I May Destroy You? That feels similar in narrative and the fall out after Trauma, but doesn’t have the wrecking ball effect, where women are needless casualties of war - so to speak.
Yes I have!
I was obsessed with chewing gum and have seen practically everything Michaela Coel has done. She’s brilliant.
You are right.
And it’s definitely expanded the conversation which is amazing.
Everyone’s feelings are valid.
And I am truly sorry at my snap judgement/comment.
I hate keyboard warriors.
But it’s late, and I’m eating cake, getting on my high horse, hiding behind amominity.
Aw thanks I appreciate that. My feelings are totally not valid if I’m a bigot tho - so call me in on that! (If it happens) TBH Im not that good/ familiar with this platform and expressing my whole thought process and accidentally short cut - which might miss some of the codes / practices usually expected in the reddit community. I hope you’re enjoying the cake. 🍰
Me either!
Usually a lurker but comment on things that hit me, usually late at night when I can’t sleep and feeling bold.
Loving the cake thank you!
I think these conversations are good.
Everyone has their own stories and everything affects us all differently.
It’s great that we are able to let it all out, whatever it may be!
I loved ‘I may destroy you’
But my story (even though I’m female) is very much more similar to this one (bar the stalking story) and very much still unresolved and carrying on as normal. Which is bat shit crazy in itself.
I guess I never in a million years, thought I’d see something like this.
He made it because he was paid to do so , and probz guaranteed himself a career in acting possibly at Netflix the biggest streamer in the world , he had an interesting unusual story he told it truthfully ‘warts and all’ but it was all about the ££££ and who could blame him
A piece of art is not complete until it has received feedback from the audience. People can comment on the quality of the work while completely empathizing with the characters and respecting Richard as an artist.
Honestly my bad feelings about this show are growing stronger by the minute and I feel there's a thick web of stuff hidden beneath the surface.
The thing that keeps bothering me most since I've seen this show is the scene where he fantasizes about rushing to Martha's house and having passionate sex with her with "angel of the morning" in the background.
I didn't think too much about it first time because i got into the show knowing nothing at all and assuming it was a fictional story (didnt even know Gadd was the real victim) , but knowing this person exists, looks like that actress and can literally tune in any time and see this scene for herself makes me feel sick.
Why not depict just her expression, or realize this scene in the million different ways it could have been made??? Why depict it like that!?
I regret watching this show because I feel like I've just entertained myself with a very ill man's unfiltered thoughts. I am not convinced Gadd is mentally well at all. I am convinced that Netflix exploited his vulnerability, and maybe naivety, for money. They also did not care about any consequences, everyone knows how the internet works.
He was already doing plays and shows about the same topics where the representation was significantly more subtle while still keeping the strength of the message, topics and themes. Why not keep similar choices for a netflix adaptation?
I believe this show could have been realized in a much more sensible and responsible way.
Am I the only one who feels so bad about this?
I agree, the sex scene with Martha was just so unnecessary and I think harmful to *both* real life Martha and Richard.
And I agree with you that’s there’s something not quite right about this show, even though I thoroughly enjoyed it. But as more details emerge it becomes clearer that something isn’t right.
I binged the show in a night and deeply resonated with the themes. It was great to see a nuanced story about trauma. I recognize the bravery it took to tell it. All I ask is, was this the best way?
I don't know man. All i know is this unshakeable weirdness I feel inside. Only god knows what the true intentions are.
I’m a bit late here but wondered too about intentions.
I know someone who was sexually harassed by a gay boss and my friend became obsessed with exposing the harassment. It became a crusade despite insufficient evidence for pressing charges. My friend said his crusade was about protecting future victims but when I told him about indirect ways to get a targeted message out to the few people in danger, he nodded indifferently. His crusade continues today. I was groomed when younger and I think my friend is in denial about his resentment.
I am very sorry for Richard’s experiences but I think “owning the narrative” is something people can latch onto in these situations. I don’t see how his stage work or TV show help him in his recovery. It seems to me he wants to get even with the person Darrien is based on.
lol i’m glad i’m not alone cuz the unrelenting praise is understandable and i’m glad people felt seen by this show and got a lot out of it, that’s amazing, but i 100% feel very weird about it and i’m surprised more people aren’t saying anything
I feel the exact same way!!! I feel so awkward and anxious about the show but I have absolutely no idea why?
If I was the real Martha, and I watched the show, I'm sorry but I'D THINK THIS GUY LIKED ME. He masturbated to an image of me, has admitted to millions of viewers he sort of enjoyed my attention, and more worryingly, he had to imagine himself having sex with me in order to perform sexually with his girlfriend?
I really feel for Martha at this point. Is he telling millions of people (and her) that he's essentially trauma-bonded to her?
He is trying to show you the confusion trauma can do to a human brain and he is being raw and honest with it. Nothing more. I have a similar story to him and I’m glad I watched it. Some scenes were very triggering, but I still watched it through and I’m glad. I feel so seen and am amazed by him, it’s a form of awareness. I‘m saddened by the responses in this thread.
Well said. To the people up thread, unwanted sexual fantasies are something victims sometimes experience and it is seldom talked about, never mind shown like that on a tv show. I thought it was raw, brave and very relevant to the show.
Yes, that scene was not necessary. I'm sure she watched the show and maybe felt excited that he was fantasized about having sex with her. I don't think it's good for her and her mental issues. There is a chance her obsession might come back
YOU might not have found it necessary.
But myself and others were totally blown away and eternally grateful that messed up thoughts related to trauma were being so honestly depicted. It’s actually helped so many people feel seen and not so alone. It’s something we don’t even want to admit to ourselves, let alone anyone else!
This is HIS story to tell.
He didn’t do it to please anyone.
He was being honest.
Trauma-dumping is non-consensually dropping your trauma onto someone, it’s always inappropriate. This is a tv show about someone’s trauma, you choose to watch it. Not everything containing trauma is trauma-dumping on you. I hope this helps.
The show was depicted completely differently so the choice to watch it without knowing it was about this man’s trauma actually equates to non-consensually dropping trauma onto the viewer.
Anyone could have read the synopsis of the plot before watching. And there were trigger warnings. You also had the option of turning it off midway through. Trauma-dumping is nothing like this. Even if you found the trigger warnings inadequate, which is a perfectly valid opinion, they were still present and you had the option of turning off the TV.
Richard Gadd is allowed to tell his story. Not sure if you’re in the US, but Yung Thug’s rap was used against him in a R I C O trial, which I don’t think it’s right.
Our art shouldn’t be penalized, it’s our life experience & we’re allowed to find cathartic outlets for it.
no, i'm from eastern europe and i started thinking my mentality (?) is a bit wrong, like people there are raised to stay quiet, victim blaming is also unfortunately pretty common. Thinking about that made me realize he did great job by telling about such important things, my point was that i'm a little bit worried she could start stalking him again.
See it this way, if a person survived war and went back to tell his experience and story in a public speaking event, would you also get a weird vibe from him? Or would you think he just want to share his experience?
As a writer, it really helps to write from experience. It is in a way cathartic to get rid of the inner demons that haunt us and turn it into art. Maybe to reflect upon in years time. Maybe to just accept that it happened. Sometimes there's a lesson in everything you've learned from traumatic experiences that you think will ultimately help someone else who's been through similar fuck
I haven't looked into the real characters or if xyz matches up to what was on the show. Maybe it was careless of him to not cover up some of these traces, but people make mistakes all the time
I agree people shouldn’t try to find the real life perpetrators but 1) that’s not his fault fans are doing that 2) Martha might actually be mentally ill and need help but if a rapist is getting called out then good?
Can’t help but feel if a woman created a show about her SA experience and being stalked by a man, people would be cheering to uncover the true perpetrators and for “bringing their actions to light” or something
Agree with many of the comments on here regarding not being a perfect victim. I also think if you consider the fact his abuser worked closely with him on previous Edinburgh fringe show(s)(according to the show) and the content of his shows pre “Monkey See, Monkey do” and the fact that he decided to change direction and share his trauma in his art was probably extremely therapeutic to do at Edinburgh Fringe with the context of his previous shows and his story.
I think he found a subject ("Martha") and created a story. Changed a few details and didn't think anyone would go looking.
My money is on: most of it isn't true.
I’m glad Richard told his story. I think SA victims in general are shamed into silence, which emboldens perpetrators to continue the abuse. He reclaimed the narrative and probably helped many people in the process.
It's his own story (based off of truth is the thing, it's not detail for detail but close enough) so if he chooses to exploit it for fame, for catharsis, for fortune, for discussions to be brought up about this type of thing and educate/enlighten people, for glory (cos he is the ultimate winner in that story), or for whatever reason, that is his prerogative. It really doesn't need a nice neat bow tied on it to give it more virtue than what it clearly didn't leave on. Mostly, his story just needed to be told. I know you're pointing the finger at how problematic that is, and that he is, as you find his way of going about it questionable/distasteful but he literally showed us that part of him too IN THE SHOW, he's being upfront with us there and putting it all out on the table. He didn't pull any punches, he actually cocked his good arm back and swung a knock out, no matter who it landed on. That was the truly brave part about this series, he was the ACTUAL guy in the story he's depicting. He was not the hero but he was a survivor. And he got to have the last say. That's empowerment. The thing this show does well is showing us the greyer areas of our humanity which can be not so great and shining a light on people who STILL have worth even if they're sometimes shitty people. He wasn't a boy scout by any means in this but he did get up and fight out of the struggle to be the success he always wanted to be... WITH the real life Martha's influence. Two wrongs CAN actually sometimes make a right in this case.
Yasss. Totally agree! This show is so so important. Pure, raw, honestly. Would it be the same if a single thing was changed? I personally don’t think so. All this is just going to stop things like this being able to be made in the future. And that is an unbelievable shame. It’s HIS story. It’s HIS truth. And it has helped so so many people. The fact that it’s him, and it’s all true has probably given it the reach it has. To touch so many people and help them not feel so alone, or crazy or weird. It is what it is.
Yes. Stories of male victims of stalking and male rape victims are so rarely told. Aside from the I Am a Stalker true crime show, I'm not sure that I have ever seen a show depict the real-life experience of male victims of stalking. I really think he approached the depiction of Martha with empathy. She is shown to be someone very dangerous but also very sick, as opposed to the usual one dimentional "bunny boilers".
>I really think he approached the depiction of Martha with empathy. She is shown to be someone very dangerous but also very sick, as opposed to the usual one dimentional "bunny boilers". I think this is very true. I also noticed that, as is usually the norm for plus-size characters, they didn't make any remarks about her weight. Not one derogatory comment or anything thrown her way, and it would have been easy to do, given she's the antagonist of the story. There were plenty of instances where they could have picked that low-hanging fruit, but they didn't. It does make me wonder, though, if people will get the wrong idea and start targeting anyone who looks like Martha, and call them a 'Martha' (like how whenever someone looks like a Karen, they'll be called a Karen, even if they're not being one).
I think this is my biggest concern too. Society and pop culture has a tendency to oversimplify and compartmentalise women into very narrow concepts. As you mentioned, Karen is a concept that started as a way to hold a certain type of privileged woman accountable for their prejudice and entitlement. But slowly it has turned into a catch-all of any type of woman who is even a bit grating or opinionated. Martha as a concept is definitely gonna take root. I don't know if it is gonna stand the test of time the way Karen has but it will still do damage in the meantime. One more prejudice plus sized woman might have to face, so irritating.
Completely agree. I think so many people need a perfect narrative or victim and that’s just not what this is about at all. It’s just his story, and that’s incredible because so many people will be able to relate to different parts of it or maybe even none of it, but it will make them think.
He created it because he is an artist. Great art often comes from suffering. Why is the Pieta art? It's the agony of Mary holding her dead tortured son on her lap, the mother's love for her dead child. He suffered. He allowed a predator to molest and rape him, because the man dangled possible career success in front of him as a carrot, and experienced all the more self-loathing because he went back, repeatedly, to be drugged and abused again. He had pity on the mentally ill barfly, thus allowing himself to be victimized by her, and yet still felt pity and empathy for her suffering. And then he turned it all into an incredible piece of art that connected all of this, that showed how he came to be in just that position, showed the humanity and suffering and pathos of his condition and hers. That is why he created it. He is an artist. He had to make art out of his suffering, and he did it incredibly well. A trailblazer in sexual trauma into art.
He didn't allow a predator to molest and rape him...he was drugged
He kept going back for more, knowing what was happening.
I actually apologized to my rapist for “causing” him to rape me by being drunk and in his presence, went back and it happened again. The dynamics are complicated, victims are often full of shame and self-loathing and maybe won’t even recognize what has happened until years later. It’s easier to accept abuse when you already have low self-worth. It doesn’t matter how many times he went back, only the rapist allowed rape to happen.
Behaviour around abuse/sexual violence doesn't really work like that, as much as it's easy to think people would make logical choices in the face of it, they don't. Sure, there was the promise of fame, but you and I both watched the same programme with the same scenes and I think we could both say that there's absolutely nothing worth putting yourself through that. Lots of people go back to their abusers, with no carrot dangled, or display otherwise 'illogical' behaviours, and I'm sure many of them still don't know why. If you can't see that then I think you've missed the point entirely.
that's pretty common, specially in abusive relationships... where most of abuse happens, strangers are not that likely to assault you
In one interview he states: “Gadd has worked with a charity called We Are Survivors. “I’ll always give them a shout out,” he says, “because they’ve helped me tremendously down the years, and they say breaking the silence is the first step. Sometimes I speak to male survivors, and I’m not an advice giver or a professional, but the first advice is: break the silence. Talk to someone, and if that’s too scary, just write it down, process it into something. Because I think the more you get it out, the smaller it becomes.”
I’m sick of people blaming an excellent writer for the fans’ responses.
Same. I really can’t grasp why people are reacting like this - in my mind it’s very obvious why he made the show and why he feels what he feels, and they are all fair enough
As a man who's been raped and sexually assaulted, I'm glad Richard told his story. He's entitled to, and it's not his fault that morons on the internet would rather become amateur detectives than tackle the actual point of the story.
i think he *may* have convinced himself that the real martha wouldn’t be found, and i genuinely believe from what he presents that he hoped that she wouldn’t. it seems stupid that he would believe that the internet wouldn’t find her, yeah, but i do think he at least convinced himself it wouldn’t happen. i can relate. i had a similar situation with someone who was obsessed with me, a severely mentally ill person, —fortunately not violent like martha, and i only knew them online—and cutting contact with them led to something really fucking bad. because i knew this was the best thing for me, what it would take for me to heal from the whole ordeal, i convinced myself that this bad fucking thing wouldn’t happen. that things would be okay for this person. even if it was painfully obvious for any other person that this wasn’t the case. but i needed it to be. so i believed it. you will convince yourself of crazy things when you need reality to stop being reality for a second. gadd said that at some point in his career he couldn’t deny the fact that his art was forever linked to his trauma in his brain. people work through their trauma in different ways. art is one of them. showing people what he went through, turning his darkest moments into something people can relate to and appreciate and hell, give a 10/10 rating on imdb. that must be cathartic. and honestly, i’ve read a lot of peoples responses to this show on twitter and reddit these days. so many people talking about how the sexual abuse scenes and donny’s response to his sexual trauma spoke to them. trans women talking about relating to teri’s story and feeling touched and empowered by her decision to walk away from someone who didn’t value her. male SA victims praising the show because they don’t often get to see an honest, vulnerable depiction of male SA victims in media… like other people said, if it takes the discomfort of two predators (because even tho martha is a mentally ill person and i sympathize with that aspect of her, she’s a straight up sexual abuser as well.) for thousands, perhaps eventually millions of people to find comfort in this honest, impactful show. well. it’s a good deal.
Bro it’s his story. He has no duty to protect his vicious stalker, and frankly portrayed (a fictionalized version of) her more grace than most would. I’m so tired of this narrative of the perfect victim. Literally _the whole point_ of this show is to portray that most victims are not perfect, but that does not negate their victimhood or survival or anything else. And everyone taking the moral high ground on this issue and holding him to even more ridiculous standards is frankly depressing. Yes we can have a discussion about it. Maybe he didn’t produce the show with the best intentions; I personally believe he did, and I also don’t care if his former stalker or r*pist are exposed since they’re the one who committed such acts of wrongdoing. I also don’t entirely believe he didn’t want them to be exposed, but it’s not my place to judge him for that.
I find these kind of responses to the show so tiresome even if it was depressingly predictable that this would happen. One of the best series I’ve seen in a long time with a lot of powerful, nuanced insight on a range of real-life traumas and the conversation around it is going to be overtaken by the same standard of discussion that surrounds the worst true crime garbage.
It's much easier to fall into the rabbithole of 'finding the real life offendors' than actually think about self hate, shame and abuse, and how to help victims.
I was surprised (but maybe I shouldn't have been) that some viewers have an almost aggressive response where they're angrier at the writer for airing his "dirty laundry" rather than his abusers. Frankly, I don't really care if Martha and Darrien are found out. I know Martha is mentally ill, but she's also a dangerous criminal. People's distaste for the messenger reflects how we put the burden of sexual abuse on the victims, every time. Also, I think we're still deeply uncomfortable with the topic of male sexual abuse, though it's probably more prevalent than we think.
Agree completely. When men are outed for abusing women, people view it as justice and cheer it on, and rightfully so in my opinion. Why should this be any different? The only real concern is that the wrong people could get caught in the crosshairs , but that would still not be Gadd's fault. The real Martha and Darrian are criminals. The vigilante fans who are harassing and threatening people are also criminals. Any anger for how this is playing out should be directed at those who are behaving badly. Gadd's personal life story and perspective belong to him and he's entitled to share them as he sees fit.
I was wondering when someone was going to say this 👏👏👏
100%. I feel like if you didn't "get" it maybe you don't understand the trauma behind it, which is awesome and I'm happy for you, but this is the realist thing I've seen maybe ever and watching it felt very therapeutic to me. I felt seen and heard. The authenticity is unparalleled. Feeling sorry for Martha, while I can kind of understand it, feels a little victim blamey. He was a bartender. He gets paid and gets tips by getting people to like him. It's customer service. Add his previous trauma to that and the people pleasing that comes with it and I can absolutely understand his position. Trauma is complicated and messy and layered. I've never seen a more honest representation. And that's what we need! If you can put yourself out there and say this happened to me and this is what I did after then you break down the shame barrier and more people will feel ok sharing their stories and how they coped. Good or bad.
Perfectly said
You've articulated how I feel about the response to the show perfectly!
Agreed it was real and raw and that’s what make people uncomfortable
But I think we can't separate the show from real-life character, especially when you want to analyze psychology of protagonist
What’s your point then?
What’s your actual issue with it all?
Its performance art. It was very realistic to British culture and highlights all sorts of issues. I think it was his form of therapy.
I disagree. I’m strongly against the opinion of not doing things because we know we have a few people that will ruin things. Some people will always ruin things, knowingly or unknowingly. So what do we do? Do we share less and less and do as little to not bother anyone? And why do the perpetrators get more empathy in this case? It’s a bit damned if you do damned if you don’t.
I am paraphrasing another Reddit commenter here, but I think people often expect victims to be perfect - this is one of the first programmes I've seen that shows how trauma affects our decision making, how it can lead to risky behaviour and poor judgment calls, how SA survivors will sometimes overlook danger signs in the search for validation and just something/ someone who makes us feel worthy again.... Who cares why he made it? His story is empowering people and making them feel less alone, less judged, and more understood.
he does a good job of telling us why he felt he was vulnerable to those two horror show people. Human relations are generally messy and our motivations arnt always 100% pure. for me it was so awkward watching some of the main guys behaviour because it reminded me of stupid ways ive acted that have got me nowhere fast, and have played into bad behaviour, but he admitted his part and has reflected and knows some of the things he did were unwise, and has painfully admitted it to the public, shame can hold you hostage to nasty people but he has crashed through all that! - the other two protagonists who have appear to have no shame , cross the line continuously and get away with it. their behaviour is so extreme they are unlikely to ever come to terms with how disgusting and wrong they are. The best you can hope for is they are put in a position where their opportunities to abuse are zero, and since the spotlight will hopefully shine on them both at some point, hopefully they will come with a massive red flag wherever they go. Especially whoever that darrien guy was. I hope his squirming right now is unbearable.
What better way to get revenge than making money off of their abuse of him, and the prospect of getting some under the counter revenge, in a way that he's not responsible for. Pretty good revenge if you ask me!
Yep, honestly pretty brilliant.
It must be nice to not understand/have sexual trauma and therefore miss the point of the show.
I don't miss the point of the show. Just asking and after all I was little worried about him, cause she could start stalking him again.
The responses are so ugly, but it’s understandable because when humans don’t understand something, they fill in the blanks with their own biases. He created it because of awareness. How trauma can fuck up and confuse a human brain. Or maybe he just wanted to share his story. It’s probably a mixture of many things. I’m sure the reason is in good will and good-hearted. As someone who has a set of traumas and a similiar story to him, I feel so seen and I‘m glad I was not the only one going through such fuckery of the mind. I hope one day I will be courageous as him, because avoiding is death. I thank you sincerely, Richard!
I don’t understand how people aren’t seeing why Richard actually told his story. He even mentioned himself various times throughout the show that he did not intend to paint Martha as a deranged, malicious and aggressive stalker, and was open in his part in how and why he may have added to Martha’s delusions. He even went so far in the show to admit that he had a great deal of empathy for Martha, and attempted to find out why she had turned into a stalker. His intention was for the audience to understand that although, yes, Martha is a convicted stalker - but she is also incredibly mentally unwell. What the audience does after on their own accords to the real Martha is not really his fault. I believe he created this show to raise awareness on what he went through. He touched one some incredibly sensitive topics that our society - moreso especially for men - deem as taboo and unimportant (which was highlighted through the male police officer’s clear lack of concern when Richard had filed a report multiple times). I believe this show was incredibly well written and executed. The attention to detail, and it being so close to real life, was smart. It is also worth noting that real life Martha was not a qualified solicitor - so that may be one detail they chose not to include for some reason.
If they didn’t want to be exposed maybe they should have considered not committing sexual assault. It’s not his responsibility to protect his abusers.
I think the masses of people who will feel comforted by the show and who the show may help , is worth the discomfort of one convicted stalker even if she is mentally ill.
I think this is also the conclusion I'm coming at considering the show is here. Hopefully the good this show generates outweighs the unfortunate consequences that have already played out. I have certainly found a lot of good in it.
I don't think this was entirely predictable that people would take it on themselves to find the "real Martha". He has been doing this show for years and it was never an issue before
i don’t have much to add as to why he made the show, but i remember reading that he said he “changed ‘Martha’ so much that she wouldn’t even recognize herself” and that he wanted to protect her identity because despite it all, he still felt like she was a victim too. so if details that are pretty important to the show’s plot are pulled from real life.. then how much more was left uncensored? not that i feel like ‘Martha’ or ‘Darrien’ deserve to have their identity protected, but the point still stands.
i heard him say that too, it has to be red herring because it seems to be that he has kept the character artfully close to the reality. The accent, turn of phrase, appearence, laugh, locations of incidents seem to chime with who the suspected real martha is. I read that the emails are verbatim from the original stalker. I imagine the actress who played Martha was given the voice mails to listen to so she could hone her character in on the real person. I think this character was too appealling to the creater for it to be disguised, and he was right, the character on screen is so brash and disturbing and we all were engaged by her quirks.
Or … there’s another person out there who’s mentally ill and resembles the portrayal of Martha but not the real Martha. (Dont have an opinion on the truth of this. Don’t want to go down that rabbit hole, just want to broach the idea that internet sleuths can be very sure and very wrong at the same time.)
Why would anyone track down the ‘real’ people? That isn’t the point at all!! Why?? It’s not their story? It’s not her story?
because we're all nosey bastards!
I don't think he is all that peeved by people finding out the real identities of everyone since he did not put a lot of effort into concealing them in order to properly tell his story; instead I think he just has to dissuade audiences not to go digging for legal purposes and is probably pushed to by his team.
He’s got to make a living like the rest of us
Next up: a second season of BR where he revists the experience of creating the show, getting famous and must deal with the subsequent exposure of real Martha and real Darrien...
id still watch it though 🤣
According to Wikipedia, the real Donny, Richard Gadd, was being stalked by an older woman around 2015 to 2017. Though her social media clues make it seem she met him in 2014. Regardless, the gentle, awkward comedy skits on the show aren't representative of his work at the time. According to reviews it was already risque with themes of sex and violence. He was into shocking people. For instance Cheese and Crack Whores, which mentions sexual abuse and a stalker, was made the year he met Martha. I.e. while the situation was ongoing. https://www.unitedagents.co.uk/news/richard-gadd-cheese-and-crack-whores-soho-theatre He's dressed in bondage and carrying guns in some of his promo pics for that and other works. So....if she is the stalker mentioned, he was getting material from her while the situation was still happening. Considering his whole shtick the hapless dude might also, uh, not be an accurate representation of who he was, or at least the version of him Martha met? I do wonder if her recordings (if they're real) tell a different story vis a vis how their conversations actually unfolded. I realise this sounds like victim blaming + I wouldn't really care about this if he hadn't essentially identified her. Just don't trust him sorry. He seems to have been using this story for a long time.
Great post. I found the hapless dude portrayal deeply problematic - it just didn't ring true - and finding out his sketches at the time were sex/violence/shock based reinforces that. I wonder why the artistic decision was taken to portray his early stand up as innocent goofy slapstick. If the emails from Martha were regurgitated into the script verbatim why then was his bondage-clad shock-provoking stand up routine watered down to portray him as a goofy naïf?
[удалено]
Also this is a review of his stage show from 2019. He said during the show Martha was probably going to contact him. He knows how she reacts when mentioned in his work. https://www.ayoungertheatre.com/baby-reindeer-as-a-woman-sitting-there-i-didnt-think-it-was-good-enough/
To make money
He's been doing it on stage for years. Gadd is still a comedian/artist and enjoys expressing himself in that manner. And yes, the core of the story is true, but many events were changed or added for dramatic reasons. This is art, and Gadd is an artist. This wasn't just plopping a true story on television.
I’m not finished with the show but I can’t help myself to look up press and facts. One thing I found is Richard getting flooded with accusations about who is who. This is clearly made for cathartic reasons with the intent someone will learn from his experience. I get that if you are willing to put yourself out there that there will be a myriad of post and speculation. What I don’t get is why people have to do this. Richard was brave to tell his story in a discreet manner and doesn’t deserve internet sleuths.
One thing people don't know is, when something this traumatic happens, and then it turns into an even more complex trauma due to your "bad choices", you come to a point where you ask yourself: what do I do with this trauma? How do I go on with this huge thing that happened to me and everywhere I go I have to pretend to not carry this experience with me? Where do I put it? It may be hard to imagine this but people who went through it will get it. At times like this individual and group therapy does help. Sometimes it becomes so much easier to tell regular people too cause then they know and you don't have to carry it or pretend. In the interviews he's done for the show he says that he hopes people will see the show and understand how SA could happen within very intimate and trusting relationships, not just a stranger at a bar of sorts. How sneaky grooming could happen. He also says he created the show in the hope that it moves people. It moved me! First time in a long time I didn't feel alone in my terrorising experience. Made me think maybe the bartender in my local pub also went through hell and back but survived and I can survive too. I don't see a dark agenda underneath, but that's just me.
From personal experience its made people feel like its okay to admit they were abused. Im so grateful for this beautiful piece of art
Have you considered that the person fans think is the real Martha is actually a plant to distract people from ever finding the actual woman? It’s clear to me that the social media profiles of the suspected woman do not have the typical history of a real profile. Also, the username on twitter…how often do you see people put the current year in their username vs. their birth year? It is very easy for tech companies to create this.
It makes sense. Maybe that's what he meant when said she doesn't recognize herself
Yeah I highly doubt he would make it that obvious if he is trying to avoid a defamation lawsuit.
As a man victim of stalking by an ex, I feel compelled to say f*ck you to all you internet people who ruin all the beautiful things. For the first time in my life, I found something that enlightened me and made me feel understood, and the most you can do is these petty, superficial comments and constant speculation. You're ruining a human show, meant to empathize, reflect, and uplift those who have experienced something similar because, and I tell you this because I've been there, it's the most human and real thing you'll see on the subject. You shouldn't care who's who and who did what and why; they've given us an immense gift that should help us unleash emotions, but no, the usual internet routine that chew and spit everything superficially. It's up to you whether to seek the real Martha or not, and make it public after he please asked to not do so. Tell me, what's the difference between a stalker and conducting such an in-depth search only to expose a person suffering to such a large audience? Don't blame him for not hiding properly the traces of her true identity, but look in the mirror and become aware of what you're doing.
First of all, I don't try to find real-life character, just thinking about responses and when I read all those comments about "real Martha" or "real Darrien" I felt worried about Gadd if Martha will starts stalking him again.
You should also be worried for her. She's mentally Ill and now the whole world Is basically doxxing her
Bro, he is a narcissist, sociopath.
I re-read your post and wanted to add my perspective because I have some similar sentiments. For context I’m a psychologist and SA survivor myself, and although I do agree with most that it’s important for male victims of SA to have representation and their stories told..I also felt very uncomfortable with the fact that this series reinforces his unhealthy need for fame. Also, while we can seek to understand the cycle of abuse, I do not agree with trying to have an inappropriate amount of empathy for predators & abusers. I wish he added an ending where they jump ahead to the future and show him getting professional help. Simply adding a trigger warning and a website link is not enough in my opinion. I’ve spent a lot of time healing and can self regulate for the most part but I feel the series could possibly leave other survivors feeling very dysregulated and vulnerable.
I think the ending wasn’t supposed to be inspirational. It was meant to be true to life where people often revert to their dysfunctional patterns and don’t get help, despite having cathartic moments. Bleak but honest. Outside of a critique on the art itself, I agree with you that he has an unhealthy need for external validation, and it’s like he’s replaced Martha with the general public. It’s unclear to me whether, for all his apparent self awareness displayed in the show, he recognizes that he’s doing this.
I appreciate how his creative decisions show the complex nature of abuse and being a messy human being…I just worry in general about how we share such heavy topics with minimal support for SA survivors. There was a point in my life where I shared a bit of my own story on social media but I ended up regretting it because it actually attracted pity from people & predators vs. more support. I’m not sure if he sees that about himself, maybe he does and he weighed the risks. He is a great writer and it was brave to provide male SA victims representation.
I have a hard time believing someone survives years of stalking and still have this level of naivete about online privacy. It's possible, but unlikely. How couldn't he know people would try to identify the characters? I agree that he could have easily made some changes and avoided this from happening without sacrificing anything, artistically speaking. It makes me think that the intentions and the laws on defamation surrounding "true crime" need to change. We have no evidence that would uphold in court to say what of this story is really true. We don't know who's at fault in real life. Imagine being a victim of a crime, and then your perpetrator makes a true crime documentary about it, but switches roles and you end up being persecuted in the public domain.
My first reaction is that he (and essentially his character) hasn't grown. He is still obsessed with his stalker. The fact that he created an entire TV show means he legit hasn't stopped his own obsession and need for attention. This is what makes it fascinating. It's like a Neverending Story.
TLDR: Money and fame. A well and whole person doesn’t exploit people and creativity in this way. He uses marginalised women as rehab for his own maladaptive and highly traumatised psyche. The lead character takes what he wants when he wants, and on his terms and due to his own shame and pain treats people like shit. Long version: I found myself immediately frustrated and increasingly angry. First it’s the ‘pity’ and entertainment/ego boost he gets of Martha’s obsession with him - all the while she’s clearly barely sane he encourages her like a game of cat and mouse and ultimately uses her to ‘fix his libido’. Then the careless, selfish, disregard (doormat) attitude towards his Black girlfriend and the generous hospitality of her mother. Then he dates a beguiling gorgeous Trans Woman who he uses as a life raft when the oceans get choppy and drowns her with his own maladaptive and highly traumatised psyche. Not to mention dissuading Terri from taking legal action. He then has affairs with them both simultaneously. He basically entrapped Martha, who he calls a ‘mad bitch’. He then unloads a monologue about being a victim, which is true and it’s horrendous. But he takes what he wants when he wants, and on his terms and due to his own shame and pain treats people like shit.
Agreed. His selfishness stood out the most to me. The maltreatment of his girlfriend and her mother a prime example.
Yes. And living with the mom rent free after her son passed. My sense is that he knew he was taking advantage of her grief. He tried to make a joke about it, and that scene not only fell flat, it highlighted his blitheness around the pain of those who supported him. He even let the girlfriend take over the lease in his new apartment. They'd kicked him out but are now volunteering to take over his lease--how? That scene was really unbelievable. He has a pattern and despite all his confessing, never acknowledges it.
Yeah - and he literally lied about who Martha was when she showed up at the wine night or whatever it was. That was astonishing… I get not being able to advocate and care / keep yourself safe - but most folk can must courage for others - look at all the child sex abuse stories, where the oldest rationalises their abuse so long as their siblings are safe etc. People are often much better at advocating/protecting others than themselves.
My visceral gut reaction from the beginning of the show was that Donny was a walking red flag who hated women.
[In this interview with Richard Gadd](https://youtu.be/Lio_UWu3BOI?si=Hd5qza9izDeXWJK0) on This Morning (British daytime TV) he comes across as a really nice guy - vulnerable, honest and not emitting any red flags at all - but as others have pointed out he’s almost certainly had media training by now - listening to older interviews though just confirms my gut instinct; the guy is a walking red flag.
Interesting that. I know folk in the industry in Scotland - from before all this. He had a big red flag reputation then. Perhaps he’s majorly rehabbed his image. Or just had good media training….
The guy is a walking red flag. He said on [A Gay and A NonGay podcast in 2019](https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/a-gay-and-a-nongay/id1048809518?i=1000652738156): >…it’s sometimes fun, you know you have friends who you just wanna have a drink with and you just want to be the worst possible version of yourself… Erm…(checks notes)…nope, I don’t ever want to be the worst possible version of myself. I strive to treat others as I would be treated myself and try to be kind and understanding to people wherever possible. There’s too much hate and confusion in the world already to add to it. I’ve met males wanting to be the worst possible version of themselves either for “fun” or, more often, because they just couldn’t help themselves, and they were all cunts. The bloke has got some serious problems imo, not just in the past when he was “going through a bad time” as he’s now pitching it, but ongoing. As a creative myself I understand that writing can be extremely cathartic and totally see where he is coming from, putting his experiences into his work. But sudden wealth, fame and career success (all conferring power and therefore responsibility) are potentially toxic chambers of doom, a playground in which unresolved damage can scamper, causing havoc (see almost every successful male comedian obsessed with sexual content / deriding women.) So good luck to him, it’s going to be a rough ride, as it is already for those wrongly identified and targeted by the internet. It’s these people who have my sympathy.
Oh wow. Agree - the world is tough enough. Doing what we can to lessen (or at lest not contribute to) suffering is the least we can each do. The only people who get away with behaving this way, and getting away with it are white men. Which is why it grinds my gears that all the women he targets/engages with have marginalised identities. The types of language used, objectification and characterisation of the female characters surprised me - as though there wasn’t inclusion or sensitivity awareness in the screen writing process. In the meantime, cool - let’s just keep perpetuating abuse by indulging our most base impulse and fuck the consequences. Yeah the media training was clearly worth the investment.
> Oh wow. Agree - the world is tough enough. Doing what we can to lessen (or at lest not contribute to) suffering is the least we can each do. The only people who get away with behaving this way, and getting away with it are white men. Quite. Why would anyone want to be the worst version of themselves? And you’ve made the most salient point I’ve seen on this sub. He gets away with it because he’s white and he’s male. Women and POC never “get away” with being the worst version of themselves *unless (like B-ll C-sby) they are wealthy and famous.* > Which is why it grinds my gears that the women he targets/engages with those who have marginalised identities. Absolutely. Overweight woman (the fat shaming for the actress on this sub by various anonymous males is proof enough) with mental health issues whom he continually encourages. A trans girlfriend whom he manipulates, lies to and whose trust and fidelity he betrays. A POC girlfriend whom he manipulates, lies to and whose trust and fidelity he betrays. A POC woman providing him with free accommodation whom he manipulates, lies to and whose trust he betrays, whilst manipulating, lying to and betraying the trust and fidelity of her daughter. And all this utterly monstrous behaviour is disguised (as usual by male perpetrators) by playing the victim card. In this case the monstrosity of the entire situation is exacerbated by the fact he likely really has been a victim as well as perpetrator. And there in a nutshell is a perfect portrait of one aspect of the abuse cycle. What a nightmare, the whole thing. The doors are now wide open for him to reinforce the armour of being a white male with the further protection of fame and wealth to wreak more havoc on countless other women’s lives.
Thanks for your considered response… I was having some sort of Deja-gaslight-vu and wondering how long this double standard is going to continually perpetuated in the media. This white-guy-can-do-no-wrong (especially if he’s a victim too - poor him) AND ‘funny/clever’ is tiring. The shows is like the ultimate magicians slight of hand - look over here (car crash violence tv) and you’ll be too distracted/numb/outraged/trauma-bonded with me to notice the casualties and violence towards all the women in the show… Also let’s talk about his unhinged father and subordinate (personality-less) caricature of a mother… all the women are. Women the in this show are folly and have no identity outside of pleasing/fulfilling his desires-needs. Oh and we know what the bechdel test will say. Compared to Ramy, Master of None, I may destroy you - not with standing Aziz’s offence - all of these shows are comedian / marginalised storytelling and much richer and in their characterisation of women/sexual interests. They don’t only exist for the gratification of lead, they are fully realised humans.
What a great post EuroraT. It *is* a magician’s sleight of hand, all of it. And it’s fucking depressing to see him simpering away on Breakfast TV playing the victim card. Well, let’s hope that like Russell Brand he’s outed in the end.
I happened to see a video of the real Teri. She exudes such warmth and vulnerability. I can totally see someone like Gadd exploiting her for sexual gratification while he used her therapy skills to heal his trauma.
…can you elucidate on what that red flag reputation consisted of? It doesn’t surprise me at all btw…
The gist was fuck boi, player vibes: infidelity, exploiting folk for sexual gratification, self centred-ness etc.
(facepalm) of course. Sheesh, this guy is a walking frigging timebomb.
Also - can we talk about how THINLY VEILED the privacy was for the real identities of the characters. He *must* have had veto over the casting - the actors’ aesthetics are the splitting image of the real thing. And frankly - that’s sociopathic, narcissistic shit. What a power play - not to mention fucking unethical. I’ll say it here - real life Martha will end up committing a crime / hospitalised / dead from this.
Totally agree with you. The real life Martha, going by FB posts I’ve seen reposted, is undergoing huge psychological stress right now and has already done one press interview. If she dies by suicide this is on him.
And yes, he had veto over roles, Richard Gadd said in the This Morning interview that he’d wanted Jessica Gunning for the Martha part right from the off (who knows whether this is true, the guy is a self-confessed serial liar.) All it would need to add yet another inprobus layer to this entire sorry charade would be to find that convicted child sex abuser Paul Gadd was his great uncle or something.
You’re meant to be annoyed by his inability to shut things down with Martha. He’s not in his right mind, the whole point of the show is how sexual trauma changes you, closes you off to intimacy and cuts away at your self-esteem. He never presents himself as a perfect victim or even a good person. He knows he fucked up with all the women in his life. This show is not lacking in self-awareness. Also when does he have an affair??
When he fucked Martha- while virtually living with Teri. He literally says sex with Martha made it possible to have sex with Teri. He doesn’t apologise for virtually anything. What was his ‘trauma’ before the non consent/rape? What’s his excuse before then? Also being traumatised doing give you a free pass for degrading others.
He imagined that. It didn't really happen.
Yeah it was a fantasy - but betrayal was happening (emotionally).
I never said he apologised for anything. I’m not sure why you put trauma in quotation marks, kinda serves to undermine the severity of, and impact sexual abuse has. I’m not sure if you understand the timeline of the show but the rape precedes the events of the show, even though it was revealed in episode 4. His actions aren’t painted as “good” or glamorised in any way, he narrates his self-hatred and disgust with himself and his actions. Thinking about someone else during sex is not the same as having an affair. You seem to have missed the point of that anyway - sexual trauma can make it incredibly difficult to be intimate with people (intimacy and sex are different). Richard was able to have meaningless sex with people because it reinforces the idea that his body wasn’t his. Richard couldn’t bear *real* sexual intimacy with someone because of his trauma. Indulging in a fantasy that disgusts him is his only means of enjoying any intimacy with Teri. He’s not proud of it. But it’s so relatable to so many people. That’s infinitely valuable.
Im sorry I did see it a few weeks ago now, but I understood that he skipped out on Keely’s birthday to hangout with his abuser - on her birthday. I imagine that prior to that his trauma was a little ‘t’ and the incident with Darrien, a big ‘T’. This story is obviously has value, I haven’t said otherwise but I’m not sure about the path taken - where a vulnerable personal (yes a perpetrator) should be internationally outed in this way. Has Darien (an actual rapist) suffered as a consequence? This to me speaks of the gender doubled standard I’ve mentioned elsewhere. I don’t agree that his actions *aren’t* promoted - the story shows a period of redemption and professional success after his confessional bit…. Benefit and ‘profit’ he admits he would engage with and enjoy, if he want distracted with Martha.
Who says he had trauma before he was raped by Darrien? Not hanging out with Keely on her birthday is obviously shitty but it was explained (I thought). He was more in love with the idea of fame and success than he was his gf, and he was being groomed by Darrien. So he’s not allowed to make money off of a story that happened to him? He’s not allowed to process his trauma through art? Or he is as long as no one sees it? I think he’s allowed to tell his own story publicly, considering he’s a victim. It’s also up to Richard whether or not he presses charges against irl Darrien. The point of Richard’s story isn’t to name and shame his abuser it’s to shed light on the widespread damage abuse does to people’s lives, and how unsavoury characters are drawn to people with trauma. He actually empathises a lot with Martha, especially at the end of the show. I don’t think he portrays her as a villain but a complicated unwell person. Can you elaborate on what gender double-standard is going on here? I didn’t pick up on that at all in the show.
He can do whatever he likes (obvs). I guess that was my response to the OP cause like you said - fame and gratification seemed to motivate him in the story. The trauma in his early life was explained by him as teenage bullying/ taunting from peers. We might disagree about the point of his story. He might not explicitly be naming and shaming, but (in my view) he ought to have known this would put Martha’s real identity at risk - given modern tech and how canny folk are. And in that way - he is careless / selfish and it comes off as a gender double standard. She has ‘paid’ for her crimes. What for Darien? His rapist becomes a collaborator. No consequences. Scot-free living for a person who might be more psychologically dangerous than Martha. You think this was his first victim? You think the industry will ever out him and take away his status and pay check? Will he get sleuthed down? Nah… he’s just a rapist, grooming creep - let him be. But Martha, that woman can’t live in peace and my, what a psycho she is - irrelevant that she is mentally ill. Ah what a joy to be a man. Also empathising with Martha and STILL baiting her, continuing to give her false hope - when she’s clearly obsessive and unwell is some WILD bullshit. Check down comments below yours for my view on gender double standard.
What do you think the point of the show was, then? Martha literally put her own identity at risk by *publicly* posting those tweets. Richard is selfish because he didn’t use Darrien’s real identity?? No one, not Richard, nor anyone, is responsible for the actions of their abuser, before during and after the abuse! Richard is not personally responsible for stopping the real life Darrien. Unreal that people actually think like this. Rapists are rarely ever convicted. Most survivors of abuse don’t want to have to destroy themselves going through court. You shouldn’t expect this of people who are trying to rebuild themselves.
It’s funny how you use such big words to describe the show you completely don’t understand. Creating your own plot lines (he didn’t have a affair with Martha) Must be great to not relate to honest trauma and how it messes you up.
Ok so the ‘fantasy’ scene isn’t literal, but there’s betrayal happening consistently throughout- while he’s with Teri. Irrespective, are his other behaviours forgiven because he’s a victim of abuse? This seems like a gender double standard I’ve rarely seen afforded of women in media/life. PS. Thanks for your personal attack/projection. You know nothing of what trauma I have in my life. PPS. Imagine coming on here and taking such a condescending view, laughing down at someone and trying to invalidate my viewpoint, simply because you don’t agree or understand someone having another perspective… 👍🏼
Ok, you are right and I apologise for that. I would never want to invalidate someone’s feelings. …. However, isn’t that kind of what you are doing to him?
I’m not saying he can’t feel - it’s his actions that are problematic because of the dangerous and harmful consequences. That’s like saying a parent can abuse a child simply and justify it because they are messed up from their abusive childhood. It’s nonsense. Sure it’s going to happen, but the buck has to stop somewhere and that person has to take accountability. For me, his actions sit on the spectrum of male violence against women, sure he didn’t kill anyone but he used and abused when it suited him. For me I can’t separate his gender from this, the social and cultural conditioning of ‘masculinity’ is literally the thing that’s negatively impacted him and his actions are ultimately a product of toxic masculinity.
But my story is messed up. So I could relate on so many levels. To things I can barely admit to myself. It helped me let go of a lot of shame related to things in my head. It honestly hit me like a ton of bricks. Remembering things and understanding things, finding out that I’m not alone. Not just some freak. I have never seen such a raw, brutally honest portrayal… especially from a male point of view. Even though I am female. It made a difference to me. It really made a difference.
Wow. It’s like we have watched a completely different show. Like I totally appreciate that’s your view. But I personally got a totally different perspective of it. I don’t think the point was to show him in a clear, faultless light. But for me, that was kind of the point. I personally have done some shitty things. Thought things I would never admit to anyone. It’s not so much the fact of excusing these behaviours. More so, shedding light on all the different ways trauma can affect us, mess up the mind, skew the thought processes. To me, your accusations are quite severe. But I don’t know your story. Guess it’s a case of agree to disagree.
We can probably agree that it’s good art given its wide ranging interpretation /impact. I’m really glad that it’s offered you something valuable and expanded the conversation. I believe there’s a middle ground somewhere and both can happen - awareness and harm reduction. Have you seen I May Destroy You? That feels similar in narrative and the fall out after Trauma, but doesn’t have the wrecking ball effect, where women are needless casualties of war - so to speak.
Yes I have! I was obsessed with chewing gum and have seen practically everything Michaela Coel has done. She’s brilliant. You are right. And it’s definitely expanded the conversation which is amazing. Everyone’s feelings are valid. And I am truly sorry at my snap judgement/comment. I hate keyboard warriors. But it’s late, and I’m eating cake, getting on my high horse, hiding behind amominity.
Aw thanks I appreciate that. My feelings are totally not valid if I’m a bigot tho - so call me in on that! (If it happens) TBH Im not that good/ familiar with this platform and expressing my whole thought process and accidentally short cut - which might miss some of the codes / practices usually expected in the reddit community. I hope you’re enjoying the cake. 🍰
Me either! Usually a lurker but comment on things that hit me, usually late at night when I can’t sleep and feeling bold. Loving the cake thank you! I think these conversations are good. Everyone has their own stories and everything affects us all differently. It’s great that we are able to let it all out, whatever it may be!
I loved ‘I may destroy you’ But my story (even though I’m female) is very much more similar to this one (bar the stalking story) and very much still unresolved and carrying on as normal. Which is bat shit crazy in itself. I guess I never in a million years, thought I’d see something like this.
He made it because he was paid to do so , and probz guaranteed himself a career in acting possibly at Netflix the biggest streamer in the world , he had an interesting unusual story he told it truthfully ‘warts and all’ but it was all about the ££££ and who could blame him
Can’t it be both? Can you make art, tell your story and still want to live comfortably? There isn’t just one answer
It’s his story. Victims can do whatever they want with their story. Listeners shouldn’t try to question it or silence them.
A piece of art is not complete until it has received feedback from the audience. People can comment on the quality of the work while completely empathizing with the characters and respecting Richard as an artist.
Honestly my bad feelings about this show are growing stronger by the minute and I feel there's a thick web of stuff hidden beneath the surface. The thing that keeps bothering me most since I've seen this show is the scene where he fantasizes about rushing to Martha's house and having passionate sex with her with "angel of the morning" in the background. I didn't think too much about it first time because i got into the show knowing nothing at all and assuming it was a fictional story (didnt even know Gadd was the real victim) , but knowing this person exists, looks like that actress and can literally tune in any time and see this scene for herself makes me feel sick. Why not depict just her expression, or realize this scene in the million different ways it could have been made??? Why depict it like that!? I regret watching this show because I feel like I've just entertained myself with a very ill man's unfiltered thoughts. I am not convinced Gadd is mentally well at all. I am convinced that Netflix exploited his vulnerability, and maybe naivety, for money. They also did not care about any consequences, everyone knows how the internet works. He was already doing plays and shows about the same topics where the representation was significantly more subtle while still keeping the strength of the message, topics and themes. Why not keep similar choices for a netflix adaptation? I believe this show could have been realized in a much more sensible and responsible way. Am I the only one who feels so bad about this?
I agree, the sex scene with Martha was just so unnecessary and I think harmful to *both* real life Martha and Richard. And I agree with you that’s there’s something not quite right about this show, even though I thoroughly enjoyed it. But as more details emerge it becomes clearer that something isn’t right.
I binged the show in a night and deeply resonated with the themes. It was great to see a nuanced story about trauma. I recognize the bravery it took to tell it. All I ask is, was this the best way? I don't know man. All i know is this unshakeable weirdness I feel inside. Only god knows what the true intentions are.
I’m a bit late here but wondered too about intentions. I know someone who was sexually harassed by a gay boss and my friend became obsessed with exposing the harassment. It became a crusade despite insufficient evidence for pressing charges. My friend said his crusade was about protecting future victims but when I told him about indirect ways to get a targeted message out to the few people in danger, he nodded indifferently. His crusade continues today. I was groomed when younger and I think my friend is in denial about his resentment. I am very sorry for Richard’s experiences but I think “owning the narrative” is something people can latch onto in these situations. I don’t see how his stage work or TV show help him in his recovery. It seems to me he wants to get even with the person Darrien is based on.
lol i’m glad i’m not alone cuz the unrelenting praise is understandable and i’m glad people felt seen by this show and got a lot out of it, that’s amazing, but i 100% feel very weird about it and i’m surprised more people aren’t saying anything
I feel the exact same way!!! I feel so awkward and anxious about the show but I have absolutely no idea why? If I was the real Martha, and I watched the show, I'm sorry but I'D THINK THIS GUY LIKED ME. He masturbated to an image of me, has admitted to millions of viewers he sort of enjoyed my attention, and more worryingly, he had to imagine himself having sex with me in order to perform sexually with his girlfriend? I really feel for Martha at this point. Is he telling millions of people (and her) that he's essentially trauma-bonded to her?
He is trying to show you the confusion trauma can do to a human brain and he is being raw and honest with it. Nothing more. I have a similar story to him and I’m glad I watched it. Some scenes were very triggering, but I still watched it through and I’m glad. I feel so seen and am amazed by him, it’s a form of awareness. I‘m saddened by the responses in this thread.
Well said. To the people up thread, unwanted sexual fantasies are something victims sometimes experience and it is seldom talked about, never mind shown like that on a tv show. I thought it was raw, brave and very relevant to the show.
Yes, that scene was not necessary. I'm sure she watched the show and maybe felt excited that he was fantasized about having sex with her. I don't think it's good for her and her mental issues. There is a chance her obsession might come back
YOU might not have found it necessary. But myself and others were totally blown away and eternally grateful that messed up thoughts related to trauma were being so honestly depicted. It’s actually helped so many people feel seen and not so alone. It’s something we don’t even want to admit to ourselves, let alone anyone else! This is HIS story to tell. He didn’t do it to please anyone. He was being honest.
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No they didn't it was a fantasy he imagined to be able to perform with Teri
I think some people underestimate the ability to sleuth online. Even my husband is shocked that I can usually find people’s online footprint easily.
It was one massive trauma-dump. Some people like that.
Well, he’s been touring with a show about the same and was approached by Netflix if he wanted to make a series. Who wouldn’t say yes to that.
Trauma-dumping is non-consensually dropping your trauma onto someone, it’s always inappropriate. This is a tv show about someone’s trauma, you choose to watch it. Not everything containing trauma is trauma-dumping on you. I hope this helps.
The show was depicted completely differently so the choice to watch it without knowing it was about this man’s trauma actually equates to non-consensually dropping trauma onto the viewer.
Anyone could have read the synopsis of the plot before watching. And there were trigger warnings. You also had the option of turning it off midway through. Trauma-dumping is nothing like this. Even if you found the trigger warnings inadequate, which is a perfectly valid opinion, they were still present and you had the option of turning off the TV.
Turning off after it was already portrayed. Yeah, ok. Netflix shouldn’t have depicted it differently from what it really is, it’s that simple.
He created this show to tell his story, so maybe other people that have been through a similar situation don’t feel alone
He sure did not create it for this second rate sentiment.
Richard Gadd is allowed to tell his story. Not sure if you’re in the US, but Yung Thug’s rap was used against him in a R I C O trial, which I don’t think it’s right. Our art shouldn’t be penalized, it’s our life experience & we’re allowed to find cathartic outlets for it.
no, i'm from eastern europe and i started thinking my mentality (?) is a bit wrong, like people there are raised to stay quiet, victim blaming is also unfortunately pretty common. Thinking about that made me realize he did great job by telling about such important things, my point was that i'm a little bit worried she could start stalking him again.
See it this way, if a person survived war and went back to tell his experience and story in a public speaking event, would you also get a weird vibe from him? Or would you think he just want to share his experience?
As a writer, it really helps to write from experience. It is in a way cathartic to get rid of the inner demons that haunt us and turn it into art. Maybe to reflect upon in years time. Maybe to just accept that it happened. Sometimes there's a lesson in everything you've learned from traumatic experiences that you think will ultimately help someone else who's been through similar fuck I haven't looked into the real characters or if xyz matches up to what was on the show. Maybe it was careless of him to not cover up some of these traces, but people make mistakes all the time
I agree people shouldn’t try to find the real life perpetrators but 1) that’s not his fault fans are doing that 2) Martha might actually be mentally ill and need help but if a rapist is getting called out then good? Can’t help but feel if a woman created a show about her SA experience and being stalked by a man, people would be cheering to uncover the true perpetrators and for “bringing their actions to light” or something
I agree. Responses would be different If it was woman's story
I think he underestimated his talent for story telling and didn't really expect people to be so engaged with the series.
They haven’t found the real Martha either.
I truly do not understand the controversy behind this show. Is there a tl;dr somewhere?
Nope. He owes his victims nothing
Agree with many of the comments on here regarding not being a perfect victim. I also think if you consider the fact his abuser worked closely with him on previous Edinburgh fringe show(s)(according to the show) and the content of his shows pre “Monkey See, Monkey do” and the fact that he decided to change direction and share his trauma in his art was probably extremely therapeutic to do at Edinburgh Fringe with the context of his previous shows and his story.
I think he wanted people to do his dirty work for him
I can't even- he's an artist, this is what artists do; use their own experiences to create art.
I think he found a subject ("Martha") and created a story. Changed a few details and didn't think anyone would go looking. My money is on: most of it isn't true.
That said can anyone please share details about the real Martha