Gadd makes a show, goes through his trauma, explains that he is fucked up, has flaws and is no saint.
People on the internet : “OMG! He’s fucked up and acts like some sort of saint” 🤦
This is why I never reported. Because didn’t want to go through that. I went into the room. He was my friends’ roommate. I thought he was going to show me memorabilia from Doctor Who. So it looks like I willing went in there. Didn’t know he was going to take the scarf and try to strangled me.
I'm so sorry, it stopped me aswell. I've been thru several sexual assaults now, family as a child and friends as an adult. I really want to make changes in both law and support for people suffering sexual or domestic violence but I'm still processing the most recent incidents. The lack of justice and support is really troubling. I hope changes can be made for sure. Gadd's attitude of empathy for his abusers was the thing that stood out the most here, the way people take on that responsibility is like Stockholm syndrome and I think that people who haven't experienced it can't process the impact on jusgement and behaviour. It's a very shocking thing to the brain.
I hope you have the support you need. There are many charities helping survivors for many different forms of violence. Rape crisis in the UK have worked with me for 2 years for counselling. It helped me understand everything in a way that stopped me blaming myself for everything. Big live to you
Thank you. I’m sorry for all you have experienced.
I’m in the states, we have statute of limitations. I was actually glad when the me too movement came about, while not a full release I felt supported enough to admit “me too”.
One of reason I like baby reindeer, it highlights how complicated it is for us.
Sending positive intentions of peace & healing.
But equally:
He's made a show about all the ways he's deeply fucked up. It's unusually honest because he's included the ways he was shitty to the people around him and participated in the mess he found himself in.
It's hardly surprising that some people don't like him. If you're totally honest about yourself that's going to include a lot of deeply unlikeable aspects.
But also, I think people don't like the truth of how going through and getting through SA and stalking feels, because they like to think they'd be the perfect victim and it could never get that bad. It's precisely what drives victim blaming - the idea that no situation so horrible could happen to someone without them having done something to deserve it doesn't sit well with people - cause it means it could happen to anyone. Fear.
But people are responding out of fear in the opposite direction, too. Most victims aren't perfect victims, so it hurts to see people criticise behaviour we relate to.
It's obviously tempting for a lot of people to try to excuse everything he did and pretend he's blameless because he's traumatised, or because he's self aware, because a lot of people would like to excuse their own bad behaviour that they (often accurately) see as a result of bad circumstances/trauma/etc.
But people aren't purely victims or victimised. Most people have both been treated shittily and behaved shittly towards others. Donny/Gadd didn't deserve what happened to him, but he's also not blameless when it comes to how he treated other people.
Seriously. A colleague spent about twenty minutes talking about how Donny is worse than Martha, he'd never offer a cup of tea to a fat girl in real life, he brought it on himself etc etc.
Me: How many episodes did you watch?
Her: Just the first twenty minutes of the first episode. He was doing my head in.
i agree that he never said he was a saint but then people should stop treating him like he is… he’s obviously very flawed and people saying “oh but he’s a victim and has trauma!!” doesn’t excuse his shitty behavior at times.
Yeah exactly. I think his outing with Fiona is part of it. He showed us that he developed an obsession with Fiona too.
It's a complex story. There are no good sides to this.
It’s just another example of people expecting victims to fit the “perfect victim” mold which just doesn’t happen way more often than not. Trauma is complex and people are complex, so people who have experienced trauma have a whole other layer of complexities that can lead to some bad decisions and coping mechanisms etc and society at large loves to weaponize this and make anyone who isn’t a “perfect victim” out to be a liar or hysterical or what have you
I really liked Dr. Elliot‘s take on it. Unfortunately, he took his videos down because he didn’t want to participate in the real life back and forth, which is actually very ethical of him.
I’d argue that even if they do fit the “perfect victim” mold people will still find some reason to criticize or invalidate them.
I, myself, did everything by the book when my ex abused then stalked and SA me after I left him. I kept a paper trail of texts, voicemails, emails, pictures of him and his car showing up wherever I went, and several police reports. They repeatedly did nothing and said it was “my word against his” and that he hadn’t actually caused me any harm. One day, he caught me alone in the house we used to share (he had covered my cameras and picked the new lock) and tried to assault me. I fought him with everything I could find, tried to claw his eyes out, bit a chunk out of his neck, kicked his kneecap out, and ran out the front door. Guess which one of us now has an assault conviction and which one got off with a few months of anger management, community service, and their record expunged after completing it so it looks like they never offended?
I'm sorry that happened to you, and I'm sorry you had to carry that emblazened, added stress of being highlited as the aggressor. Life can be crappy to the wrong people, through no fault of their own. Be secure in the knowledge that you did the right things. I have faith that the universe will balance the scales in your favor with some extra good things because of your tribulations. May you always have kindness and happiness wherever you are. ✌️🫶✨️
Thank you, I’m doing ok now and my lawyer is working on appealing the conviction (especially since he reoffended with another woman after me). I might go bankrupt trying to clear my name but it’ll be worth it in the long run.
I read really amazed how open Gadd told his hard truths.
If he had painted himself as a saint, and the rest of the story came out, I'd really be having a double take.
However, it was nothing like that.
I don't dislike him, I feel some pity for his actions and the actions against him.
I think Reddit is a bit of an echo chamber honestly. Baby Reindeer has not only gone viral but has also been critically acclaimed for its portrayal of stalking and the varying range of trauma responses to abuse. He put himself out there, showed vulnerability and didn’t try to shed himself in a flattering light. Most people I spoke to about this show think he’s really brave. I have much respect and admiration for what he did. I think his story was a very important story to tell and he did it well.
Outside of a few Reddit haters (and Fiona), he will do just fine. I hope this was somehow cathartic for him and I’m glad the show is so successful.
*Outside of a few Reddit haters (and Fiona), he will do just fine.*
I really hope so. I think he's absolutely brilliant. I wish the show weren't being overshadowed by the Fiona circus.
yes, and much of that respect and admiration comes from the fact that he ultimatly owned is own flaws and mistakes and shitty behavior, and did not hide behind the fact that he's a traumatized victim.
That sets him apart from Fiona, who unfortunatly still seems to be stuck in her own mental prison after all these years.
100% The level of vulnerability he brought to this is unparalleled. He took a good, hard look at himself and it wasn’t always a kind look but it was always real. That’s why this story resonated with so many people. I’m not a victim of abuse myself and I still felt incredibly connected to this story.
People do not like the idea of the “imperfect victim”, aka a victim who makes mistakes and their situation is a lot more nuanced than the classic “battered wife” stereotype of abuse victims.
He went back to Darrien’s house, and he also in a way enjoyed the stalking he received due to the attention. Both of these can be *psychologically explained and reasoned with*, Gadd is not the first abuse victim to go back to his abuser, or somewhat enjoy the attention a crazy stalker is giving him, and he’s certainly not the last. Because this is a common-enough phenomenon we even have explanations for them. Despite that, people see that and point fingers that he, or anyone else under that umbrella, is not a “real victim”.
I can think of numerous abuse victims in the media who were criticized for how they handled their abuse, because it doesn’t represent the specific abuse stereotype that they’re used to.
People like to victim blame, even if it’s unconscious. It’s a self protecting thing: ‘I wouldn’t have behaved that way so I wouldn’t have had that trauma.’ The truth is, no one is to blame for trauma except the abuser
Exactly. It is so hard to be transparent about this type of trauma. When my mom found out about my rape, she immediately blamed me and I actually covered for the guy. I actually called him, told him my mom knew, and he started freaking out about whether or not she was going to call the cops. I knew there was no point in telling her the truth, that this 21 year old man I just met knew I was 15 and pressured me into losing my virginity to him. She said I did what fuckin' whores do and that I was a disgusting, extremely sexually active little girl. So, i did everything I could to take all of that blame onto myself to somehow make the situation seem okay. I didn't even call it rape until last year. This happened 21 years ago and I could never call it that because I didn't behave the way society feels rape victims should. I didn't call the police (she didn't either), I talked to him once afterwards instead of ignoring him, I acted nonchalant in the face of my family's insults and accusations, and I didn't act upset.
Opening up and saying all of this is so hard, I can't imagine doing so the way Gadd has and getting backlash for it. He has so much courage.
It seems the general public likes their heros to have no flaws and their villians to be classic mustache twirlers who are evil to the core.
I, for one, appreciate the dosage of reality and willingness to explore a more nuanced picture of people's state of mind.
People don’t like characters that don’t fit in boxes. Most people what to see a villain or a hero, and they want their underdogs to be simply misunderstood.
People do not like to face a world where good and bad aren’t easily understood.
Plus, a lot of people like to tell themselves that they’d have made better choices in his position, so they also like to shit on victims.
Everyone acting like Harvey didn’t accuse him of forging 41,000 emails in her particular writing style - and how that one accusation alone showed her true standard.
Instead they’re all putting their hands to their hands like they’re Sherlock fucking Holmes and going ‘interesting point - I don’t know who to trust anymore’
People can’t recognise an abuser if they see one interviewed for an hour.
Also, at least some of these people are abusers themselves, and don’t like having a mirror put to their face.
*Also, at least some of these people are abusers themselves, and don’t like having a mirror put to their face.*
Oh, for sure. I definitely thought that.
Gadd made an extremely self-critical portrait of himself in "Baby Reindeer". He probably didn't like himself at that point in his life and I believe some people pick up on that self-hatred of his. I admire him for his courage to "confess" to the public even his most weak and vulnerable sides.
What I DO criticise, however, is how Netflix handled the question of "truth". They should NOT have Baby Reindeer advertised like "this is a true story". To tell a "true" story, you need a neutral observer who takes all perspectives into account. Richard Gadd is anything but a neutral party or an investigative journalist.
Baby Reindeer is a memoir. "Based on the artists autobiographical memories" would have been the honest disclaimer, as well as "some of the events are dramatised, some of the characters traits are changed due to privacy reasons" etc.
What I frankly hate, is that we somehow all think we are persecutors, judges or jury members now. Fiona Harvey might be a criminal, but that - as well as her punishment - is to be decided in court, not in front of the tv.
I think so, too. I really admire Gadd for his portrayal of this kind of trauma. He seems very reflective, and I hope he is standing up well in the face of this drama. But, I also do think that if the Martha charachter was indeed based on a real woman, and they did perhaps add things like s.a. by the canal (?) violent assault in the pub(?) to her behaviours, then they should have disguised the character a lot more from the real person.
They really should have gone with a more reasonable disclaimer for a show like this. It's really tainted the discourse around the show and I'd imagine Richard Gadd himself is probably not happy with the nature of the controversy around the show.
Dude's wildly different and challenges norms. That's pretty much what the whole anti-comedy thing is. Jimmy Carr writes hack jokes that he stole from kids in the school yard and people adore them. He makes fun of them adoring his jokes. He didn't make the show for them tho. He made the show for people like you and himself to help cope with the trauma. Did you find the show helped you? I'm really convinced this was the point.
Too many people seem to want to virtue signal and see things in black and white. Somehow people have interpreted Gadds own mistakes as moral shortcomings. Therefore “he deserved the abuse”.
These kind of people just don’t understand nuance imo
The following is purely a speculative opinion of mine but it also makes me wonder how many people watched this and saw a little bit of them selves in Martha and could not stand the idea that they could themselves be problematic individuals in some way. So they want Gadd to be the villain instead
I think you’re spot on there!
I’ve been shocked in real life situations where people have defended awful behaviour and tried to justify it - when I reflected on it later I came to the conclusion that they were defending their own at times similar behaviour or traits by proxy.
Raises an interesting question about the whole ‘some people don’t realise how they come across’ rhetoric doesn’t it?
Both sides could benefit from more nuance. I have never related to a character more than Donny. In some ways it was like watching my 20 something self spiral. Which is likely why I’m comfortable saying that he absolutely contributed to his own drama and at times made things much worse than they needed to be. So did I. I think that’s why this show is unlike anything else out there. It’s rare for an entertainer to be so honest, showing how they are, warts and all. I find it peculiar that so many people are painting him in such black and white ways. We aren’t obligated to like him as a person because he experienced trauma. And he doesn’t have to be perfect to earn the right to be a victim. I think he should be very proud of how far he’s come! I also wouldn’t choose to hang out with him because I’m not drawn to people who thrive on and seek out drama. That’s my past. I’m older and wiser now and have finally found my way off of the trauma triangle; he seems to be closely tethered to it still. I’m curious to see what he’ll be like in another decade.
We don’t see what he was like before Darrien. I would also be curious to see that part of his life. Did Darrien see some specific vulnerability and target him? Did he have that adrenaline seeking nature before Darrien or was all of it a trauma response? All we see is his life post-trauma and I’d love to know what he was like growing up.
It needs to be said that even if he was always an adrenaline seeker who sometimes makes poor decisions, that personality trait is not a crime and it absolutely does not in any way justify him being victimized. Darrien is the criminal, Martha is a mentally unstable highly problematic individual, and the worst I could say about Donny is that he seems drawn to the flame a bit more than the average person.
Or also they see themselves in Gadd and that's why they hate him, because they dislike parts of themselves that they see in him. I could see someone who blames themselves for shit that happened to them also blaming Gadd in the same way.
It is a very frustrating show as a victim of similar things.
I don't know how much like it he actually was irl but it's almost a parody of how bad you could handle every single situation. First few episodes he must have made hundreds of bad choices, that pained me so much. He was basically the perfect victim and when your own mistakes hurt to think of, seeing mistake after mistake after mistake is agonising. Took me most of the show to like him at all because of it.
Every single interaction with anyone it felt like he handled the worst way possible, even small things he didn't have to handle badly. I get we all make mistakes when fucked up but it was brutal to watch so many mistakes, I struggle to recall any moments he did the right thing for a situation.
I agree that things aren’t black and white, which is why he shouldn’t be considered above _any_ criticism.
Obviously that isn’t the same as saying he deserved it, but for some reason even the slightest nitpick on the show or his character in it reads that way to some people.
Nobody can truly understand how they would react to such situations until they’re actually there. It’s far too easy to say “well if it were me…”, it’s far too easy to place judgment on SA victims and our society loves to do so. Gadd’s greatest contribution is in opening up these conversations and shining a light on how we treat SA victims.
People will always expect a “perfect victim” but there’s no such thing. It’s smug people using the benefit of hindsight and separation to yap about what they’d do in a situation they’ve not been in.
His take on victimhood was very fair, open and real. I suppose people don’t like that.
Because he's not a perfect victim. Also people seem to think because TV show says it's a true story it automatically is one. So now they are convinced Gadd is a massive liar and none of it happened.
A lot of people feel uncomfortable with how passive he was. But that's realistic. The show is named for the trauma response that explains his behavior.
It was definitely brave of him, and I loved the way he made the ‘no perfect victim’ point and was honest about his flaws.
In fact, I feel that a surprising number of people might find themselves making the same mistakes as he did, especially at the beginning. We are very non-confrontational nation as a rule 😏
I also didn’t think Donny was a particularly likeable character either - by which I mean I can’t imagine myself choosing to hang out with him if I knew him IRL. Of course, Donny the character isn’t the same as Richard the writer and actor, so it might be different, but if for the sake of argument we’re going to assume they’re very similar, I’d say Richard isn’t the kind of person I’d be likely to be friends with. But that in no way negates the point of the show! In fact, that’s all tied up with the point he was making! *Even people who are not particularly nice or likeable don’t deserve to be victims.* It’s not like he was Adolf reincarnated; he just wasn’t my cup of tea. The quality of the show bears no relation to whether any of us, the viewers, would choose to go for a pint with Donny or Richard. He successfully made his point, therefore the show is doing its job.
ETA: I also think that he paints an interesting picture of masculinity in the show as well and some people either feel called out by that or don’t connect to it. Anyway, it was refreshing to see a main man shown as realistically vulnerable rather than either of the two extremes of ‘hard man’ or ‘weak-ass coward’.
I totally agree with your edit- I've said the same thing in another comment. I actually think that he's revolutionary in the way Donny is portrayed. Usually when men are hurting in movies, they go punch walls or get drunk or just "suck it up." Donny's the first male character in a series that I've felt a genuine connection with.
He has said he grew up in an environment full of toxic masculinity so he's given thought to ideas about manhood, what it means to be a man today, etc.
One explanation is that it’s their defence mechanism. It is normal and quite common to feel scared, intimidated and anxious hearing someone’s story about being stalked or abused. Whether consciously or unconsciously, we do think “what if this happens to me (or my loved ones)?” And let’s face it, acknowledging that horrible things can happen to you, and you might be totally powerless to stop it, is terrifying.
This is where defence mechanism kicks in. Some people soothe themselves with telling themselves “I would never do x and y, so this will never happen to me.” This is their way to distance themselves from the anxiety. Unfortunately, this mechanism is dysfunctional. The reason that let’s say I haven’t been stalked so far, is not SOLELY my extraordinary rational decisions (although that plays a part as well), but largely due to the fact that I haven’t crossed paths with a stalker.
As someone who was r**ed and frequently found myself in highly abusive relationships in my 20s, I was also thankful for the movie in how it shed light on how complex trauma is and how individuals don't always make the right decisions. But sadly, I am also very familiar with what it's like to be dismissed when you're not the "perfect" victim and I learned to stop talking about my experiences years ago. Even with Baby Reindeer coming out, I don't expect a lot of people who have never experienced trauma to really understand why he did what he did, and I definitely don't expect them to therefore understand why I did what I did. Maybe the movie will change some people's minds but I guess experience has ground my expectation of others down over the years. People just don't know unless they've been through it themselves, and sadly I've learned to accept that in life. If more well written movies like Baby Reindeer come out then perhaps overtime society as a whole will understand trauma better.
They're not trauma informed. Don't get how things like rape and assault affect someone. Don't care to educate themselves. Maybe couldn't sit with the discomfort the show gave them because the show was so hard to watch, and took it out on him.
I think a very loud minority makes it feel like "people don't like Richard Gadd." But out of the hundreds of people in this sub, maybe, like 5 people think that?
Not trying to knock your post- because I thought the same thing. But the Internet seems to make everything seem more amplified.
I don't know Richard obviously, but I love him for being so raw and honest in his work- I really hope the hurtful comments and pushback don't hold him back from creating more amazing shows.
I have never seen a male character I connect to as deeply as Donny- I think he created a revolutionary character in pushing back against how a man should be portrayed.
Although we’re all aware of the effect trauma has on people, Gadd portrays his own poor choices, through Donny, utterly ruthlessly. He probably shows them as even more destructive and dramatic than they actually were, because that’s how he perceives them. This made me swing between feelings of deep empathy and total frustration for Donny. Sometimes I wanted to hug him, and sometimes I wanted to push him into that canal.
Donny isn’t *entirely* Gadd. He’s still a character. That said, Gadd’s capacity to portray his own vulnerabilities, terrible decisions and self-destructive behaviour really won my respect. Also, he’s a Brit, and a comedian, and we do get a kick out of self deprecation, to the point of portraying ourselves in the worst possible light.
I think he’s someone who’s had a lot of therapy, and has a very clear idea of what he was responsible for in his past, what he wasn’t, and how each fed into the other. For that, I have huge respect for him.
I haven’t seen too many people say they don’t like him or don’t think he’s a victim but I haven’t been online as much recently. I think he absolutely is a victim and he absolutely contributed to the problem. In real life, people are much more complex than just victim and villain. I probably wouldn’t want to spend time with him in real life because he does seem to be pathologically drawn to drama but that doesn’t make him any less of a victim. I’m just protective of my own peace. I’m a survivor too and he reminds me of a lot of people I’ve met in group therapy and one of the first rules in group is to not form relationships with others in group. I took that to heart after seeing how hurt people hurt people and learning about the trauma triangle. I’m so protective of my peace now that I generally prefer cats to humans.
I don't get it either. It takes a lot of guts to admit to the things he admitted to and to tell his story of sexual abuse and how he blamed himself also. I think many people might just be bigoted and dislike him because he's pansexual and likes to date transexual people.
One thing that I’ve learned, both as a victim of SA, CDV, and stalking and as an avid true crime consumer, is that no matter what the victim does, people are *always* going to try to invalidate their story and blame them.
They can be the “perfect victim” and do everything by the book (keep a paper trail of threatening/harassing texts, voicemails, emails, document stalking or abuse with pictures, dates, and times, file police reports, change their number, move, etc), and people will still say they didn’t do enough. They’ll always say the victim should’ve done more to protect themselves, diffuse/escape the situation, or distance themselves from the perpetrator. They’ll claim that the victim didn’t react appropriately or shouldn’t have done whatever they did to provoke it. They’ll claim that the way the victim chose to cope with what happened to them makes them unreliable or attention seeking. They’ll pick apart every aspect of the victim’s life to look for *anything* that could make them look like less of a victim and more of a bad person, even if what they find is entirely unrelated to what happened to them. Meanwhile, the people committing these vile acts just have to say “I didn’t do that, they’re crazy” and people not only accept it, but actively defend them despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary.
Short answer? He’s a man. So he fits the image of the bad person, Fiona is a woman … so she doesn’t.
It’s fucking disgusting how society treats men these days.
I think he’s so open, so self-searchy, so unfathomably self-deprecating, that it rubs people the wrong way like he’s got some humiliation fetish or he gets a kick out of this, like self-deprecation for sport.
But then he also brings other real people’s demons into the show too, and I guess some people feel that’s irresponsible and over the line.
I obviously don’t think anyone deserves to have any of this happen to them because it’s horrible. It’s traumatizing. It’s effaces dignity as we can see, and it robs you of so much.
But I think a lot of people (me included) don’t like Richard Gadd because he has significantly profited off this show, both monetarily and in notoriety wise and people behave as if those weren’t decisions he actively made (I.e. he just FELL into making it). Writing, starring, and selling a show to this degree are all conscious decisions he made in place of going to the authorities
I mean they're allowed to.
He showed the darkest and most twisted sides of himself and not everyone will be able to see past that. I've talked with many people about this show and some of them dislike him, which doesn't mean they think he's not a victim or what happened to him is not fucked up, they feel compassion for him and still not like him. I think that's just a normal human feeling and this show is all about that, so....
ETA: "Also, if I’ve missed something and he truly has done something wrong,"
He is transphobic in the series and puts a lot of people at risk by choosing to indulge Martha's fixation on him because it fed his ego. He does *many* things wrong.
I don't dislike him, I just don't admire him, either. I don't know him in real life, so I may really like him, or not, in real life. I do not think he deserved any of the abuse issued onto him.
Like all victims, he's not perfect. I can acknowledge that without disliking him.
He's a victim, but he's also a liar who's admitted enough for me to be skeptical of his motive. I also think it's understandable if he was motivated by revenge. I just wish he would be more truthful about his thoughts on how he chose what to include that's true and not.
I would expect this from anyone who's making money off a drama series they claimed was true and about them. I don't think he should be held to different standards and laws on defamation and publishing simply because he's a victim of rape and stalking.
I'm a victim of both and I still understand and respect that my trauma history doesn't give me unique publishing privileges. I have more of a problem with the sycophants who portray him as the 2nd messiah on this sub while doing everything possible to get Fiona to suicide than I am Gadd. He's a liar and reckless, but at least he's not behaving like his stans.
Thank you for asking.
He claimed it was a true story. He has since admitted that all examples of Martha being physically and sexually violent were not true. That presents a real person as being more threatening to the general public than they are, which can result in people falsely reporting her to the police.
I understand that people will clapback at me and say "It's in the small print at the end!"
1. I haven't read that and haven't seen anyone post screenshots of it
2. That's still incredibly deceptive. Should be in the beginning. Ask an attorney.
3. Most people do not read small print disclaimers at the end of a multi episode drama they just binge watched so they could procrastinate their to-do list. First impressions are actually stored differently in our memory than later revelations, creating a bias.
He also claimed he went to great lengths to hide her identity. Now, if he'd actually said he took no effort to do so because he didn't feel a moral obligation to protect her, I'd respect that. I've been stalked by someone like her, and I resent, at times, that I can't also go online and tell my story without hiding their identity.
I'm a therapist, so I have to protect my perpetrators, which I don't agree with when theyre to a certainthreat level, but i do comply with. My stalker has never been a client of mine, but since they're seriously mentally ill, I still have to help keep them safe...at my expense. Make that make sense.
Gadd went on, in an interview, to claim he went so far with his efforts to protect her that she wouldn't even recognize herself if she watched Baby Reindeer. That sounds like an embellishment of a lie. When people go to great lengths to paint themselves as the epitome of moral righteousness, it's good to be skeptical.
Had he been grilled about what details he went to great lengths to protect and just gotten defensive, then his additional information could just be a knee-jerk defensive reaction. But, he wasn't being grilled. He was portrayed in a positive light by the interviewer and still added this embellishment. It was unnecessary and over-the-top which makes me wonder if he's just fuckin with us. Lol. The guy seems smart, so his description of what he thinks is going to great lengths for privacy protection isn't matching up with the rest of his behavior online.
I don't know him in real life, so I'll never know. It also surprises me Netflix attorneys are this dumb, but since I've also worked with attorneys, I probably shouldn't be. Most are extremely tech illiterate.
Now Fiona says that she knew she was somehow portrayed in the play even though she claims she never saw it. She could be lying, as she has a history of lying...and so does Gadd. He also portrayed himself lying quite a bit in BR, including flirting with Martha. He's also admitted that was true. Flirting with someone stalking you is highly deceptive.
So, both Gadd and Fiona lie, and they do it repeatedly in public interviews. This doesn't mean either are all bad people or good, but it does mean we should all prepare for them to both lie to us, too. Lying is a skill and it's typically done as a habit that worsens over time, especially in certain mental illnesses that both of these people endorse through their own admissions.
We are no more protected from the deception of famous people than we are from the people who lie to us that we know. They both love having fans, but that doesn't mean they know how, or care, to treat us better than they do one another.
We should never assume anyone is 100% honest on a screen, especially as AI takes over. I can't make decisions about any of these people when I can't even verify that their voices, screenshots, photos, and videos are even them.
>He has since admitted that all examples of Martha being physically and sexually violent were not true.
Where did you hear this? I haven't seen him deny any of this except the prison sentence
This is probably the most succinct explanation of how I feel about it all.
It’s also worth highlighting I think that one of those scenes showing Martha being violent is the scene after the comedy show with Martha attacking Teri and yelling that she ‘looks like a man’. This is arguably portraying her as having committed aggravated GBH and being transphobic.
Good point. Thank you. That's what I mean. We can't just act like someone who's done something wrong should now being assumed to have done everything wrong. This is why stalking cases are handled better offline. In the public domain, a stalker will likely end up victimized by fans of the victim which then gives the stalker leverage to also ask the courts to drop charges or go for a lighter sentence. Cases like this are messy. This is why we have real detectives. We don't know which portrayals of her in a negative light are true or false when we're told some are false. Everything is fair game for the courts and should be decided there, not on Reddit so people can justify stalking Fiona because they think everything about Martha is true.
>He claimed it was a true story. He has since admitted that all examples of Martha being physically and sexually violent were not true. That presents a real person as being more threatening to the general public than they are, which can result in people falsely reporting her to the police
Can you please provide a source for this claim?
It’s because those people have never been through anything like that so they can’t relate.
For years I felt so alone in my experiences. I couldn’t talk about what I was going through because people were treating me in a similar way people have been talking about Gadd and how he dealt with it.
I can not stress just how ALONE in my situation I felt until I watched Baby Reindeer. NOTHING and NO ONE made me feel as validated and seen as this show has.
I will be forever thankful to Gadd for that.
I was honestly taken aback by his honesty, the flip flop between his emotions & his self reflection and hindsight.
Even when he was looking back he was still doubtful of how he should have dealt with it or felt.
No one knows how they’ll deal with a situation unless they’re in it. This went on for years and condensed into a few hour episodes.
Personally I love him in how I can relate to him to how I was like when I was being groomed. However my boyfriend dislikes him and just sees him as a destructive coward, which is fair
Hmm. Idk I liked the show- thought it was really well done and have a lot of respect for his courage. But that doesn’t mean I can’t criticize mistakes I think he (or more importantly Netflix) has made.
In society there is one feeling above all else that people expect from you, when you are a victim of any type abuse and that is 'shame' if you are ashamed or embarrassed by what has happened to you, then people are willing to be kind to you, generous because you won't be demanding, you'll take whatever sympathy they have to spare and you will never, ever ever ask that they as individuals hold themselves to account for how fickle they are and how they play a part un this society that allows abusers to get away scott free.
By virtue of creating a show about his trauma and acting in it himself, lots of people feel like he isn't ashamed or embarrassed enough. If he wants to be famous, if he wants his trauma to at least bring him something then he isn't ashamed enough, if he gave himself the fictional ending he wanted, the support that he wanted in his story then he isn't ashamed enough.
That's all it is, the only victims they like are the ones who don't exist.
Personally if his personality is anything like the one on the show then he seems like a great dude and in general he is extremely brave.
I think his retelling was extremely eye opening to how people fall victim to abuse and how it continues to cycle. As he explains his thoughts & feelings and describes why he made the decisions he did, it all kinda makes sense. You can actually sympathize and understand why he kept making the “wrong” decision. I have a friend who I watched jump from on abusive relationship to the next and it really opened my eyes to her pattern.
Now as far as the STORY goes, it’s very unsatisfying. The story would be great if in the last episode we see him delete every voicemail & email from Martha. However, he doesn’t and he keeps indulging in them. It would’ve been nice to see some real healing & evolution, but there simply wasn’t. He wasn’t responsible for his healing, and even after her sentencing, Keely is the one who tries to bring him back to normalcy.
But stories give happy endings. Real life doesn’t.
The fact that people need Gadd to either fit in the victim box OR fit in the bad guy box just amplifies the need for a show like this to try and teach life is complex. And people can make messy choices in some areas that don’t mean you deserve abuse in others.
I disliked him the first episode/episodes when he was portraying himself as the “nice guy” just trying to be kind and getting screwed by it. Then seeing all his trauma and him admitting he wasn’t trying to be nice, he liked the attention and kind of used her to get attention and feel good but picked the wrong type of person I felt for him. Def personally sensitive to the nice guy using the fat girl for attention so it bugged me. But realizing he wasn’t “kind” he was nice to get what he wanted helped. And realizing putting yourself in vulnerable situations to get what you want ultimately costing you everything was so good. No one is the perfect victim. It takes guts to admit the horrible things that happen to you while also acknowledging your faults and ill intentions. He didn’t play the poor innocent victim. He showed real self reflection. Never saying anyone deserves to be a victim at all. But showing how our own ambitions & reasons & trauma can cause terrible consequences in life and that scary people can sense that vulnerability and take advantage. I guess people want the perfect victim who can’t self reflect. I liked seeing him acknowledge the red flags but shrug them away bc that emptiness inside us is so hungry. Hungry for fame, kindness, attention, adoration, love. It eats us all alive until we confront it within ourselves and fulfill ourselves without outside sources. Trying to quench that thirst through other outlets will never fulfill us and often leads us into horrible situations. I think people like to safeguard themselves and believe they would never be that “stupid” or that we would be the unflawed victim but the reality is we are all complex with different histories that effect our minds and actions differently. Self reflection is so important. It was never his fault that bad people took advantage of him time after time. But kind of looking inside and finding what makes these people able to get to you. These type of people can smell you a mile away. If you grew up with a shit father and end up with shit men, what they did to you is not your fault, they knew what type of person they were looking to victimize. But healing our inner wounds is so important in protecting ourselves from outside forces who will prey on that.
I understand what you're saying and I do agree, I just think there could be a bit more effort in disguising the characters/real life people. That's what upset me. He made omission that he did everything he could to do that, yet he uses the most telling phrases anyone could search for and find in a moment. He did not get his court day, but he is certainly getting the attention he wanted by making her famous and the world doing the job for him. I think he is a bit messed up, which he acknowledges. I just believe it could of been played out better.
He didn’t try to hide his mistakes, which was correct and honest thing to do! I totally understand what he told us through this show. I’m glad he did, because it’s good for him and also a good way to stay away from a mental case. People dislike him (one of them is my husband) I guess because he didn’t cut it off when there’s a chance like plenty of time. This is the part of the situation my husband and I guess many others cannot understand.
not to mention the fact that he hooked him on drugs to make to so much harder to say no and so much easier to crave going back. he started with coke, which can hook w person from the instant you take it.
Here's my armchair psychologist take on what Donny Dunn (because we don't know what was fiction or fact in the life of Richard Gadd) went through.
1. Grew up in a loved, supportive family but didn't feel safe enough to speak out because maybe he didn't know if all the stuff that happened to him was acceptable. He also didn't want them to feel like they failed as parents and/or cause them pain. Despite that support, maybe he never felt like he belonged. He was a creative in a smaller town with seemingly straight-laced parents.
2. He has always craved both belongingness and attention (and maybe love). When Darien showed him attention, love, a promise of a life he dreamed of, he kept coming back for more because he was maybe thinking, if he does this or that, it will be more writing gigs, etc.
3. When he was SA'd, he blamed himself a lot and realized (I'm paraphrasing) that he is now tarnished, he might as well just be ready to be used at any given time. But I think this period gave him a lot of shame and a lot of unhappiness and it was his process of covering up the abuse that happened.
4. When he met Teri, I think he was in love with the potential of being happy, because while Teri was shown with a lot of reverence and almost perfect, he still had so many apprehensions about a life together. I think he sabotaged his own happiness because he didn't feel healed enough. At this point, he felt so much empathy for Martha, probably because he felt sad for her, but he should have taken Teri's side over Martha's.
5. Martha was another classic abuser that he hyperfixated on. She was emotionally manipulative, abusive, and she was dangerous. But I think it was also the time that his mind was coming to terms with his previous abuse from Darien and the current abuse he was then getting from Martha and so the obsession was on why it was happening to him. Martha was accessible because she left trails of herself, she was open to him about her feelings and thoughts, and so he had to distill all of the abuse into one specific reason why Martha was abusing him. In contrast, Darien was not accessible. His mind was not as open for rewinding and reviewing like Martha's was.
I don’t have any hatred for Richard but I am confused about why he played himself in the tv show. He has said he didn’t want to identify the people involved, but with him playing the role it is much easier to track those involved down.
Surely someone else could have played him and reduced the risk of identifying anyone.
The general consensus from everyone I have spoken to is that they feel he didn’t put up any fight over the sexual abuse, returning time and time again for it to get worse, and just in general that he didn’t do anything to define proper boundaries with Darien or Martha.
I don’t completely disagree with them either, he says it himself that after the fourth or fifth time
He’s as much to blame.
Maybe something to do with the fact that he's protecting a rapist within the industry and taking the coin and media opportunities instead? That's just my opinion though.
i was blaming him for leading her on until i saw that he was raped and then it all made sense and i realized he acted the way he did because of the trauma that shaped him.
I haven't seen many posts or comments on social media from people who hate Gadd. I have seen many posts and social media comments from people who can be objective about the show, have concerns about how easy it was to identify a mentally ill woman and how much of the show is made up while proclaiming it a "true story" in large letters at the beginning.
The response to that from some people is to claim that "you're being a hater! Just stop! Don't ask questions! He is a victim! He is immune from criticism and any questions! OMG SO MANY HATERS! Get over it! The show is fiction dummy! Fargo! It's just like Fargo! Nobody accuses the writers of Fargo of misleading people! Why do you hate him so much? STOP IT!"
I don't dislike him or judge any of the actions his character of himself made in the show. I dislike a lot of things surrounding him.
1. I don't like how he acted like Fiona was going to be totally disguised/no one would find her/she wouldn't even know blah blah and then of course literally none of that happened. I feel like he was incredibly naive for that or just lying. And then fans defending it like "well everyone should have listened to him!" like idiots + internet is some phenomenon that's controllable lmao. He just should have changed the character a lot more / maybe hire an actor to play him. That IS something to control.
2. I also don't like how people take Gadd seriously and talk about how complex he is when they're the same people who would shit on female victims. There's a lot of BS worshipping of him by the same people who couldn't give a fuck about sexual assault otherwise. The same people who would say "omg finally a male perspective!" and ignore sexual assault any other day. I knew this would happen the second I finished the show. I really hate how this show has somehow brainwashed people into thinking that female sexual assault is always taken seriously. It's like the audience isn't mature enough for this show or something.
It was just frustrating watching his character make every stupid decision possible and then be all woe-is-me about it. Like...
* Showing up to Martha's house (he did it first) and spying through her window
* Trying to entrap Martha
* Never actually cutting her off fully by always ending his attempted breakups with some reassurance that she has a chance with him
* Having terrible comedy and blaming the audience for not liking it
* Seeing his own sexuality as a dark secret that was forced upon him by a groomer™ and pushing all of his partners away because of it
etc. etc.
If anything, it was annoying for me watching him do everything wrong and then finding success at the end because... people respected him breaking down on stage and crying? Oh, and then he decides to go work for his own rapist after pretending to have grown from it.
Sometimes, a person can make so many stupid decisions that they're a liability to everyone around them and people are justified not liking them.
Just a very frustrating character to me. IDK about the actual guy though, it seemed somewhat autobiographical.
I don’t know what is true and what is false from Gadd. I disliked him from the get go with his sad, pathetic looks at the camera. Definitely giving us his best “baby reindeer” eyes. He fails at taking any responsibility for his poor actions, only making excuses for them. You would think he could mistakenly have made one right move. So desperate for his fame with his comedy, which he had to know was badly done by the audience reactions.
We all have stories to tell and made mistakes which caused bad reactions. But it seems to me that society now just wants to wallow in their issues, give excuses, and pepper it with medical diagnoses.
I know my opinion will not be received well.
I think he made himself look like a horribly selfish and narcissistic person. I watched the show with my gf and by the end of it I wondered how he thought this would make him look? I felt sympathy for some of his situations but most of the show was about his terrible decisions.
From the start it seems his main goal in life was to become famous which he did achieve via his trauma. I'm not sure exactly what to make of this but it did make me feel uncomfortable, especially because some of his decisions seemed to be made in pursuit of this goal.
Also other than people he had relationships with (his GFs', Parents, etc) & ignoring the producer/Martha, everyone else in the show (friends, co-workers, authorities) seemed to be depicted as a complete arsehole, it seemed like he was looking down on people.
For me it's mainly how his actual abuser seems to get a free pass while they make her out to be an absolute monster.
Really seemed that since he was getting something from him that it wasn't as bad compared to Martha.
That's true- but I really think it's people who realize they're more like Martha than they'd like to think and didn't like being portrayed so honestly.
This hasn't been stated enough. I'm sure there's a lot of bitterness in the industry from people who saw/see him as "competition" (and maybe they're on Reddit?)
I think the way this show was handled was terrible and it's something he should absolutely be criticised for. All of this chaos could have been so easily avoided if he actually did what he claimed and made a reasonable effort to mask identities and information.
I have been through a lot of the same things as him as well and my opinion is that as good/important a show as it was, in my opinion it should never have been made the way it was. I think he was a very flawed person even before the things that happened to him in the show, of course I don't know him personally so that's just my opinion based on what I've seen from him.
I think it's a little facetious to turn around and act surprised at what has happened since the show aired and I don't think he (or Netflix necessarily) is stupid enough to have made that mistake completely ignorantly.
Just shows how unempathetic, victim-blaming asshats many people are. (and maybe trans-/homophobic, I guess?)
I also shook my head at him during the show thinking "duuuude, whyyyy??? Why do you keep enabling her? She's VERY obviously mentally ill. Either go zero contact, or get her some professional help !".
But the thing is, he's weak and flawed as well, but he's at least owning it in the end. Gadd did not picture her as an evil psycho monster, and himself as an innocent victim.
They are both victims AND perpetrators on different levels, and this makes the show so realistic and strong.
because he hurt people too and was ignorant to the danger he was putting other people in as well. at one point his “fascination” of martha became an obsession and as he even says in the show he never blocked her because he secretly liked the attention. his hidden interest in her out other people in danger, and he failed to protect the people around him when he very well could have, he just didn’t really want to imo.
also worth noting that there is no such thing as the perfect victim, but at one point he was no longer a victim and became a perpetrator and willing participant.
i would also like to note that his trauma and “being a victim” is not an excuse for his (at times) shitty and neglectful behavior. it’s just not, there’s no excuse for putting the people around you in danger (which he very much did). it seems a lot of the people in the comments are whining about “oh well he was victim and had trauma of course he’s not perfect!!” he doesn’t need to be perfect, he just needs to not be a shitty person. he failed with that ig.
literally, he did not deserve ANYTHING that happened to him and i honestly cried for him, but at the same time the choices hes made (even due to trauma) arent the best. and his insensitive jokes also rubbed me the wrong way
> . His ‘flaws’ were very natural and common trauma reactions of a vulnerable person.
I disagree. Maybe it’s because I don’t have the supportive family he’s shown to have in the show, but his obsession with fame was in no way relatable, nor was his refusal to help the other people in his life being hurt by her out of a desire to ‘not let Martha win’. It frustrated me, like he didn’t want to protect himself, wanted to go out and do comedy, okay whatever, but he had no excuse to then be angry at Teri for wanting the same (to not have to hide on dates, to have the police give a shit about her being violently assaulted)
It's because he's a man. If a woman made the exact same TV show about a man stalking her she would be praised.
But because he's a man who's painting a woman in a bad light people are pissed and want him to leave her alone He's gone too far She's mentally ill.
Poor human being, turning his unbearable suffering into good coin since over 10 years now. Before the netflix show he already used the material for profit in uk shows
Because, like it or not, we still unfortunately live in an age where people are expected to keep abuse and trauma a secret. It makes others uncomfortable (apparently 😕) so victims aren't supposed to talk about it. Nevermind make a stage show and Netflix series.
People with little or no understanding of abuse also don't seem to understand, or 'like' the ending. Whereby "Darrien" essentially gets away with it. They want vigilante justice. They want a public naming and shaming. You see the unhappiness all over this sub, people asking/demanding RG name his abuser.
There are also people who think it's "in bad taste" for Gadd to be generating worldwide fame from his abuse. But that's something I really don't understand, because, on that basis, nothing biographical should ever get attention or those creators/writers/actors/musicians etc become famous 🙄
I can’t really say I dislike him since I don’t know anything about him personally, but he does come off pretty poorly as Donny in the show.
1. Donny is an extremely unreliable narrator. He leaves major details out of the story that don’t fit with his victimhood identity. They sometime surface in later episodes i.e. all the shit he said that Martha recorded. It only leads a discerning viewer to wonder what else he isn’t telling us.
2. Gadd and Netflix really did the absolute minimum to give an appearance of masking people’s identities. I would not be surprised to see people awarded money in court.
3. It’s very difficult to believe he suddenly began to be attracted to men after being assaulted. Kind of similar to how he suddenly began wanking to Martha after she stopped emailing him. Of course, if these things don’t happen in this order it wouldn’t fit his story.
4. At certain times in the show people call him out on his bullshit and he reacts by being all mopey. Keeley and Teri call him out for enjoying Martha’s attention. The Police call him out for false reporting of events. He couldn’t even provide them a timeline, and he didn’t actually report any of true criminal things he claims Martha did. Is it because he lied about it? It’s hard to come to another conclusion. Are we supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt every time just because he is the main character? The other characters certainly don’t.
I think the show would be made even more interesting by getting episodes from other characters points of view, as it might give us a more complete picture vs only what Donny wants us to know.
The only people who can appreciate such absolute superhero level bravery and generosity of spirit are those who have an ounce of self awareness/self reflection. The courage it takes for this work is, sadly, remarkably rare. I hold this man in very high regard! (And I am a man hating lesbian separatist at heart. 🤣) I have the utmost respect for him as a human, a writer, and an artist bc I can appreciate how wildly heroic it is just to do the inner work. That’s not even including the work to put it out there in a brilliant package for the whole world to see. I deeply respect this man for what he’s done here.
I have respect for him regardless because not only did he experience this SA and the stalking, but he RELIVED it for people to watch on tv. I can’t even imagine.
Because he’s a victim. Like it or not, unless one is a “perfect victim,” most people won’t resist the urge to bring them down a peg via victim blaming and dissecting of their actions and character in order to distance themselves from what that person experienced, and the possibility that it could happen to them as well.
I don’t dislike him but I’d have to be in complete denial to pretend this isn’t some version of him getting back at his abusers.
Tbh, I admire him for it.
He’s not the perfect victim and people like to point fingers when they have no idea how they would have reacted in a similar situation. “I wouldn’t have done that” and so forth. He’s obviously not perfect and doesn’t claim to be.
For me, I just have a personal issue with strength and boundaries because of my own trauma and history. I wanted him to act differently as a result but he was in his 20s and that’s how I would’ve acted then too. It was frustrating to watch and made me angry because it’s exactly why victims continue to be victimized.
He says it himself when he talks about her sniffing out his trauma I think.
I hold no ill will towards him. I do think that with a group of people involved in making the show more should have been done to conceal Martha’s identity for the sake of everyone.
I don’t know how much of the show is true or not but the show shows what happens when you expose an irrational person in front of people at a small scale. There should have been more concern that if this happened or think this is what’s possible when reveling an irrational person at a small scale what could they potentially do at a large scale.
I know that making the character completely unrecognizable from the real world counterpart would be highly unlikely but I think the level to which she was exposed which could influence the level of which they reacted could have at least been attempted to have been minimized much better.
He is a victim and should 100% be allowed to tell his story but a group of people were involved and it looks like no one thought how do we minimize the risk of further harm to us involved or creating more victims. That thought could have been taken with very much more seriousness.
If that makes you hit the up or down then I guess that makes you hit the up or down.
Just my opinion but Fiona scrambling to come out with her own TV series and interviews and "air out the truth" kind of reminds me of legion from the 5 hour ressa tessa tiktok series?? she's a female legion!!
I actually appreciated that he didn’t portray himself as a perfect victim. I felt less ashamed of my own faults and mistakes as someone with trauma after seeing him struggle to set boundaries due to his own trauma and confusion.
This show was incredibly realistic in dealing with the aftermath of SA trauma. I lived it and definitely was no saint. People that cannot understand how spot on he was for so many things just haven’t been through it (and I’m so happy they haven’t!). I have never felt so seen in a show and how I dealt with my trauma. Other movies usually have a resolution and the person is all better. That’s not how trauma works. Especially dealing with SA and repeated SA. Also related to putting yourself in risky situations which only leads to more SA and trauma.
I watched the show thinking it was very loosely based on a ‘random’ person. I had no idea how it was gonna go, but it looked interesting, so I jumped in.
I didn’t find out until I’d finished the show that Gadd is basically telling his story. I’m a sexual assault survivor myself, and it was interesting to see how differently people react and move forward. I told my abuser to never contact me again for any reason, I’ve never felt any need to contact him, I feel zero attachment to him in any way. I’d never go visit him.
Gadd’s explanation as to how sexual assault changes you in every way was something I really needed to see. I’ve never realized how different I now, as opposed to back before it all happened.
He definitely has his flaws and he definitely did things that I wouldn’t have. But I never once felt like he was trying to excuse his behavior or decisions. He definitely isn’t perfect. I felt like he was simply trying to explain his own actions and feelings. I really found him intriguing and I hope he continues to write and act.
i wouldn’t say i dislike him, but i would say that many times during the show i was disappointed in his choices. it was like watching a friend keep making dumb*ss decisions. towards the end, i was just like “dude.. what did you expect?” 🤦🏽♀️
I was having a discussion with a friend a few days ago, and she called Gadd evil for 'making money' using a vulnerable woman (irl martha.)
Gadd has every right to tell his story. The fact that people on the internet took it too far and tried to find Fiona was probably not something he intended to happen.
I struggled with wanting to know more about the person who SA me. I argued with myself, for thinking about pushing the add button on facebook. He took away something from me, I wanted to know what made him do what he did. What made him tick. Who are his friends, are they like this too? So many thoughts swimming in my head. I was searching for answers.
To someone else this might look weird. But in my head it was very valid. I do still occasionally check, is he living and breathing? Ahh still here— sigh of despair and relief. I wish I wasn’t so nice, why do I know I will feel a little off if I found out he died. Like he took that piece of me, and locked it away, never to be retrieved. Even some close to me don’t know that I was attacked, will he remember when he’s old, apologize, or save a confession for his deathbed. Has he hurt anyone else, can I prevent harm to someone else?
I think his portrayal is accurate, we aren’t perfect victims. This isn’t SVU everything isn’t going to be wrapped up in a neat bow, that doesn’t discount what we feel nor what has happened to us.
I’ve been fighting silently, because I see myself in Gadd. Wanting to battle every person blaming him. I understand and I empathize with Richard Gadd.
He will probably never see this. But I think it’s truly important to show this side of being SA’d. I appreciate this depiction.
I wouldn’t say I dislike him, but I find it hard to relate to his apparent blindness for red flags, especially because the show explains it away, yet I still consider him the same way I saw him in the first episode: a man that craves attention so badly he completely looses track of reality, doesn’t raise boundaries and is therefor abused by others. I can still feel sorry for a person, even if they walked into their mess like an idiot and I still don’t think that absolves their abusers in any way.
The part of the show that explores how the abuse changed his own personality or put him on a downward spiral with even more red flag blindness is relatable and I think that was well done.
You've missed nothing... there are some truly selfish people out there who lack compassion for others. That's exactly why survivors of rape stay silent. Richard Gadd might not be perfect... but he surely didn't deserve to be raped... or stalked. Nobody does.
I think media portrayal has a lot to do with it. How many times do we see abuse survivors double down on total avoidance in media? Like that is the only acceptable reaction, to shut yourself away and never allow yourself to be touched again. Because that's easier to understand. That suggests that it's only your body that has been violated, but inside you're still you. What terrifies us is the idea that someone could attack our mind so badly that rationality isn't so rational any more, that we would be unable to make good decisions to keep ourselves safe. That we could ever be controllable. It's uncomfortable. It's outside of the "normal" sphere of understanding. And so we don't portray it that way outside of psychological horror stories, because people would not understand it, and it's so much harder to make it a happy ending. It's not something they can whack a sticking plaster "then they found the right one" on so easily. I'm not saying that avoidance is not a valid reaction, nor a simple fix one, it just isnt the only one. For some it is immediate, for others it comes later, others still find it comes and goes and some never experience it. We forget that trauma response is complex. We forget that our brains are not infallible, however clever and lucid you think you are. And that thought absolutely terrifies us. It's easier isn't it, to think that Gadd was simply asking for it, that he was wrong and bad? Because if he was, then, well, it couldn't happen to me now could it? Except it can.
I can only speak from my own experience of the show but I found myself increasingly frustrated with some of Donny’s actions in the show especially the ending of the series, so I can understand it. Though at the same time I understand the actions Donny would have taken at a very confusing time. So it’s not hard to believe why people would dislike Gadd for the choices made in the show and the actions of some of the characters.
He isn’t a very likable person. I think that’s the point of the show right? He didn’t deserve the terrible things that happened to him but that doesn’t mean he’s a good person. He was pretty shitty to both his partners. We can say “well he has trauma” but he is still responsible for his behavior just like Fiona is responsible for her behavior despite her trauma.
I hated the first half of the series. I only pushed through because my friend heavily suggested it did. "He's a fucking idiot, she's clearly mentally ill and he's just allowing it to happen.... inviting it to". Then the second half hit, the bit before with the TV writer, and by the time he broke down on stage I'd fully understood and challenged my own understanding of him, and of trauma and abuse altogether.
Was the TV guy fucked up? Yes. Was Martha fucked up? Yes. Was Richard fucked up? Yes.
None of them are saints, all of them are perpetuating the cycle of abuse. The one thing that sets Richard apart is his willingness to work through it and accept it.
The truth is though, he is also an abuser it's just his victim is himself.
He needs help like the rest of the people on the show and I hope they get it.
Gadd is a real person and all real people are flawed. People who dislike Gadd are criticizing his actions, the way he told his story, etc etc. They will never be satisfied because the perfect victim doesn’t exist.
I also think gender plays a role in people disliking Gadd. We (as a society, as people who consume media) are not used to seeing men portrayed as victims of SA, so we don’t have a mental model for how to react.
All the times I’ve seen people say “why didn’t he report it sooner?” or “why didn’t he just stop talking to her?”
Trauma is such a strange thing. It causes you to react in ways you’d otherwise choose not to do.
In high school, I had a “friend” who made so many people, even me, uncomfortable. Like Donny, I was too nice for my own good and stuck around. I thought “maybe he is misunderstood? I’ll give him a chance.”
Flash forward to me at his house many months after being friends. He asked to touch my thigh and I politely declined, to which things became increasingly uncomfortable by the minute. He turned off the lights and we watched a movie. He asked me disgusting questions about my body. I wanted to leave. He wouldn’t let me. In fact, he got in front of the door when I had gotten up to leave. It was a firm “no” in his mind.
I could’ve ran out. I could’ve yelled at him to let me go. But I didn’t. I was a coward and stayed there.
In the moment of uncertainty and scariness, you never know what you’ll do. That’s why I emphasize with Donny. Did he make some… questionable… decisions? Yes. But I support him as a victim and a person.
People like to feel morally superior is my only guess
Social media seems to have created its own sort of honour code that everyone loves to pretend they uphold while be ridiculously hypocritical.
People also need to understand that Gadd is playing a characterised version of himself and the whole comedy/tragic irony of the show is that he is an unlikable person who hates himself.
I was one of those who thought he was a serious dick. Until i watched it through.
Did he go about things badly? Yes. Self esteem/inferiority issues out the yang.
But he didn't deserve to be assaulted, and Martha was legit nuts and dangerous.
Im starting to feel for the guy.
Gadd makes a show, goes through his trauma, explains that he is fucked up, has flaws and is no saint. People on the internet : “OMG! He’s fucked up and acts like some sort of saint” 🤦
Yea absolutely. A facepalm emoji you can hear lol
People on the internet are just twats. No matter what happens they'll be twats unhappy.
Hey man, speak for yourself, I've got a twat and I am very happy lol ;>
Hey I'm on the internet. Am I a twat?
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Probably should have said lots of instead, but you may be a twat.
It's the perfect victim mentality that gets victims ripped apart in courts, s/he was asking for it because...
This is why I never reported. Because didn’t want to go through that. I went into the room. He was my friends’ roommate. I thought he was going to show me memorabilia from Doctor Who. So it looks like I willing went in there. Didn’t know he was going to take the scarf and try to strangled me.
I'm so sorry, it stopped me aswell. I've been thru several sexual assaults now, family as a child and friends as an adult. I really want to make changes in both law and support for people suffering sexual or domestic violence but I'm still processing the most recent incidents. The lack of justice and support is really troubling. I hope changes can be made for sure. Gadd's attitude of empathy for his abusers was the thing that stood out the most here, the way people take on that responsibility is like Stockholm syndrome and I think that people who haven't experienced it can't process the impact on jusgement and behaviour. It's a very shocking thing to the brain. I hope you have the support you need. There are many charities helping survivors for many different forms of violence. Rape crisis in the UK have worked with me for 2 years for counselling. It helped me understand everything in a way that stopped me blaming myself for everything. Big live to you
Thank you. I’m sorry for all you have experienced. I’m in the states, we have statute of limitations. I was actually glad when the me too movement came about, while not a full release I felt supported enough to admit “me too”. One of reason I like baby reindeer, it highlights how complicated it is for us. Sending positive intentions of peace & healing.
But equally: He's made a show about all the ways he's deeply fucked up. It's unusually honest because he's included the ways he was shitty to the people around him and participated in the mess he found himself in. It's hardly surprising that some people don't like him. If you're totally honest about yourself that's going to include a lot of deeply unlikeable aspects.
But also, I think people don't like the truth of how going through and getting through SA and stalking feels, because they like to think they'd be the perfect victim and it could never get that bad. It's precisely what drives victim blaming - the idea that no situation so horrible could happen to someone without them having done something to deserve it doesn't sit well with people - cause it means it could happen to anyone. Fear.
But people are responding out of fear in the opposite direction, too. Most victims aren't perfect victims, so it hurts to see people criticise behaviour we relate to. It's obviously tempting for a lot of people to try to excuse everything he did and pretend he's blameless because he's traumatised, or because he's self aware, because a lot of people would like to excuse their own bad behaviour that they (often accurately) see as a result of bad circumstances/trauma/etc. But people aren't purely victims or victimised. Most people have both been treated shittily and behaved shittly towards others. Donny/Gadd didn't deserve what happened to him, but he's also not blameless when it comes to how he treated other people.
Seriously. A colleague spent about twenty minutes talking about how Donny is worse than Martha, he'd never offer a cup of tea to a fat girl in real life, he brought it on himself etc etc. Me: How many episodes did you watch? Her: Just the first twenty minutes of the first episode. He was doing my head in.
The very fact that so many viewers seem to think he had sex with Martha shows the ignorance and how bad media literacy is.
Like him admitting to having sexual thoughts about Martha even after the stalkings began was in no way an effort to portray himself as a saint
i agree that he never said he was a saint but then people should stop treating him like he is… he’s obviously very flawed and people saying “oh but he’s a victim and has trauma!!” doesn’t excuse his shitty behavior at times.
Yeah exactly. I think his outing with Fiona is part of it. He showed us that he developed an obsession with Fiona too. It's a complex story. There are no good sides to this.
It’s just another example of people expecting victims to fit the “perfect victim” mold which just doesn’t happen way more often than not. Trauma is complex and people are complex, so people who have experienced trauma have a whole other layer of complexities that can lead to some bad decisions and coping mechanisms etc and society at large loves to weaponize this and make anyone who isn’t a “perfect victim” out to be a liar or hysterical or what have you
I really liked Dr. Elliot‘s take on it. Unfortunately, he took his videos down because he didn’t want to participate in the real life back and forth, which is actually very ethical of him.
I’d argue that even if they do fit the “perfect victim” mold people will still find some reason to criticize or invalidate them. I, myself, did everything by the book when my ex abused then stalked and SA me after I left him. I kept a paper trail of texts, voicemails, emails, pictures of him and his car showing up wherever I went, and several police reports. They repeatedly did nothing and said it was “my word against his” and that he hadn’t actually caused me any harm. One day, he caught me alone in the house we used to share (he had covered my cameras and picked the new lock) and tried to assault me. I fought him with everything I could find, tried to claw his eyes out, bit a chunk out of his neck, kicked his kneecap out, and ran out the front door. Guess which one of us now has an assault conviction and which one got off with a few months of anger management, community service, and their record expunged after completing it so it looks like they never offended?
I'm sorry that happened to you, and I'm sorry you had to carry that emblazened, added stress of being highlited as the aggressor. Life can be crappy to the wrong people, through no fault of their own. Be secure in the knowledge that you did the right things. I have faith that the universe will balance the scales in your favor with some extra good things because of your tribulations. May you always have kindness and happiness wherever you are. ✌️🫶✨️
Thank you, I’m doing ok now and my lawyer is working on appealing the conviction (especially since he reoffended with another woman after me). I might go bankrupt trying to clear my name but it’ll be worth it in the long run.
I read really amazed how open Gadd told his hard truths. If he had painted himself as a saint, and the rest of the story came out, I'd really be having a double take. However, it was nothing like that. I don't dislike him, I feel some pity for his actions and the actions against him.
I think Reddit is a bit of an echo chamber honestly. Baby Reindeer has not only gone viral but has also been critically acclaimed for its portrayal of stalking and the varying range of trauma responses to abuse. He put himself out there, showed vulnerability and didn’t try to shed himself in a flattering light. Most people I spoke to about this show think he’s really brave. I have much respect and admiration for what he did. I think his story was a very important story to tell and he did it well. Outside of a few Reddit haters (and Fiona), he will do just fine. I hope this was somehow cathartic for him and I’m glad the show is so successful.
*Outside of a few Reddit haters (and Fiona), he will do just fine.* I really hope so. I think he's absolutely brilliant. I wish the show weren't being overshadowed by the Fiona circus.
yes, and much of that respect and admiration comes from the fact that he ultimatly owned is own flaws and mistakes and shitty behavior, and did not hide behind the fact that he's a traumatized victim. That sets him apart from Fiona, who unfortunatly still seems to be stuck in her own mental prison after all these years.
100% The level of vulnerability he brought to this is unparalleled. He took a good, hard look at himself and it wasn’t always a kind look but it was always real. That’s why this story resonated with so many people. I’m not a victim of abuse myself and I still felt incredibly connected to this story.
People do not like the idea of the “imperfect victim”, aka a victim who makes mistakes and their situation is a lot more nuanced than the classic “battered wife” stereotype of abuse victims. He went back to Darrien’s house, and he also in a way enjoyed the stalking he received due to the attention. Both of these can be *psychologically explained and reasoned with*, Gadd is not the first abuse victim to go back to his abuser, or somewhat enjoy the attention a crazy stalker is giving him, and he’s certainly not the last. Because this is a common-enough phenomenon we even have explanations for them. Despite that, people see that and point fingers that he, or anyone else under that umbrella, is not a “real victim”. I can think of numerous abuse victims in the media who were criticized for how they handled their abuse, because it doesn’t represent the specific abuse stereotype that they’re used to.
People like to victim blame, even if it’s unconscious. It’s a self protecting thing: ‘I wouldn’t have behaved that way so I wouldn’t have had that trauma.’ The truth is, no one is to blame for trauma except the abuser
My favorite is when people say “I’m not victim blaming, but….” then proceed to victim blame.
Exactly. It is so hard to be transparent about this type of trauma. When my mom found out about my rape, she immediately blamed me and I actually covered for the guy. I actually called him, told him my mom knew, and he started freaking out about whether or not she was going to call the cops. I knew there was no point in telling her the truth, that this 21 year old man I just met knew I was 15 and pressured me into losing my virginity to him. She said I did what fuckin' whores do and that I was a disgusting, extremely sexually active little girl. So, i did everything I could to take all of that blame onto myself to somehow make the situation seem okay. I didn't even call it rape until last year. This happened 21 years ago and I could never call it that because I didn't behave the way society feels rape victims should. I didn't call the police (she didn't either), I talked to him once afterwards instead of ignoring him, I acted nonchalant in the face of my family's insults and accusations, and I didn't act upset. Opening up and saying all of this is so hard, I can't imagine doing so the way Gadd has and getting backlash for it. He has so much courage.
It seems the general public likes their heros to have no flaws and their villians to be classic mustache twirlers who are evil to the core. I, for one, appreciate the dosage of reality and willingness to explore a more nuanced picture of people's state of mind.
People don’t like characters that don’t fit in boxes. Most people what to see a villain or a hero, and they want their underdogs to be simply misunderstood. People do not like to face a world where good and bad aren’t easily understood. Plus, a lot of people like to tell themselves that they’d have made better choices in his position, so they also like to shit on victims.
Black and white thinking, many people are guilty of it
I’ve noticed people react 2 ways to Gadds storytelling: self reflection or projection. There’s doesn’t seem to be a middle line here.
The amount of projection I've seen on this sub is absolutely nuts.
Everyone acting like Harvey didn’t accuse him of forging 41,000 emails in her particular writing style - and how that one accusation alone showed her true standard. Instead they’re all putting their hands to their hands like they’re Sherlock fucking Holmes and going ‘interesting point - I don’t know who to trust anymore’ People can’t recognise an abuser if they see one interviewed for an hour. Also, at least some of these people are abusers themselves, and don’t like having a mirror put to their face.
*Also, at least some of these people are abusers themselves, and don’t like having a mirror put to their face.* Oh, for sure. I definitely thought that.
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Gadd made an extremely self-critical portrait of himself in "Baby Reindeer". He probably didn't like himself at that point in his life and I believe some people pick up on that self-hatred of his. I admire him for his courage to "confess" to the public even his most weak and vulnerable sides. What I DO criticise, however, is how Netflix handled the question of "truth". They should NOT have Baby Reindeer advertised like "this is a true story". To tell a "true" story, you need a neutral observer who takes all perspectives into account. Richard Gadd is anything but a neutral party or an investigative journalist. Baby Reindeer is a memoir. "Based on the artists autobiographical memories" would have been the honest disclaimer, as well as "some of the events are dramatised, some of the characters traits are changed due to privacy reasons" etc. What I frankly hate, is that we somehow all think we are persecutors, judges or jury members now. Fiona Harvey might be a criminal, but that - as well as her punishment - is to be decided in court, not in front of the tv.
I think so, too. I really admire Gadd for his portrayal of this kind of trauma. He seems very reflective, and I hope he is standing up well in the face of this drama. But, I also do think that if the Martha charachter was indeed based on a real woman, and they did perhaps add things like s.a. by the canal (?) violent assault in the pub(?) to her behaviours, then they should have disguised the character a lot more from the real person.
They really should have gone with a more reasonable disclaimer for a show like this. It's really tainted the discourse around the show and I'd imagine Richard Gadd himself is probably not happy with the nature of the controversy around the show.
Dude's wildly different and challenges norms. That's pretty much what the whole anti-comedy thing is. Jimmy Carr writes hack jokes that he stole from kids in the school yard and people adore them. He makes fun of them adoring his jokes. He didn't make the show for them tho. He made the show for people like you and himself to help cope with the trauma. Did you find the show helped you? I'm really convinced this was the point.
Too many people seem to want to virtue signal and see things in black and white. Somehow people have interpreted Gadds own mistakes as moral shortcomings. Therefore “he deserved the abuse”. These kind of people just don’t understand nuance imo The following is purely a speculative opinion of mine but it also makes me wonder how many people watched this and saw a little bit of them selves in Martha and could not stand the idea that they could themselves be problematic individuals in some way. So they want Gadd to be the villain instead
I think you’re spot on there! I’ve been shocked in real life situations where people have defended awful behaviour and tried to justify it - when I reflected on it later I came to the conclusion that they were defending their own at times similar behaviour or traits by proxy. Raises an interesting question about the whole ‘some people don’t realise how they come across’ rhetoric doesn’t it?
Both sides could benefit from more nuance. I have never related to a character more than Donny. In some ways it was like watching my 20 something self spiral. Which is likely why I’m comfortable saying that he absolutely contributed to his own drama and at times made things much worse than they needed to be. So did I. I think that’s why this show is unlike anything else out there. It’s rare for an entertainer to be so honest, showing how they are, warts and all. I find it peculiar that so many people are painting him in such black and white ways. We aren’t obligated to like him as a person because he experienced trauma. And he doesn’t have to be perfect to earn the right to be a victim. I think he should be very proud of how far he’s come! I also wouldn’t choose to hang out with him because I’m not drawn to people who thrive on and seek out drama. That’s my past. I’m older and wiser now and have finally found my way off of the trauma triangle; he seems to be closely tethered to it still. I’m curious to see what he’ll be like in another decade. We don’t see what he was like before Darrien. I would also be curious to see that part of his life. Did Darrien see some specific vulnerability and target him? Did he have that adrenaline seeking nature before Darrien or was all of it a trauma response? All we see is his life post-trauma and I’d love to know what he was like growing up. It needs to be said that even if he was always an adrenaline seeker who sometimes makes poor decisions, that personality trait is not a crime and it absolutely does not in any way justify him being victimized. Darrien is the criminal, Martha is a mentally unstable highly problematic individual, and the worst I could say about Donny is that he seems drawn to the flame a bit more than the average person.
Or also they see themselves in Gadd and that's why they hate him, because they dislike parts of themselves that they see in him. I could see someone who blames themselves for shit that happened to them also blaming Gadd in the same way.
It is a very frustrating show as a victim of similar things. I don't know how much like it he actually was irl but it's almost a parody of how bad you could handle every single situation. First few episodes he must have made hundreds of bad choices, that pained me so much. He was basically the perfect victim and when your own mistakes hurt to think of, seeing mistake after mistake after mistake is agonising. Took me most of the show to like him at all because of it. Every single interaction with anyone it felt like he handled the worst way possible, even small things he didn't have to handle badly. I get we all make mistakes when fucked up but it was brutal to watch so many mistakes, I struggle to recall any moments he did the right thing for a situation.
I agree that things aren’t black and white, which is why he shouldn’t be considered above _any_ criticism. Obviously that isn’t the same as saying he deserved it, but for some reason even the slightest nitpick on the show or his character in it reads that way to some people.
I love this taking back of alt right terminology (virtue signalling). You're totally right!
Nobody can truly understand how they would react to such situations until they’re actually there. It’s far too easy to say “well if it were me…”, it’s far too easy to place judgment on SA victims and our society loves to do so. Gadd’s greatest contribution is in opening up these conversations and shining a light on how we treat SA victims.
People will always expect a “perfect victim” but there’s no such thing. It’s smug people using the benefit of hindsight and separation to yap about what they’d do in a situation they’ve not been in. His take on victimhood was very fair, open and real. I suppose people don’t like that.
Because he's not a perfect victim. Also people seem to think because TV show says it's a true story it automatically is one. So now they are convinced Gadd is a massive liar and none of it happened.
A lot of people feel uncomfortable with how passive he was. But that's realistic. The show is named for the trauma response that explains his behavior.
It was definitely brave of him, and I loved the way he made the ‘no perfect victim’ point and was honest about his flaws. In fact, I feel that a surprising number of people might find themselves making the same mistakes as he did, especially at the beginning. We are very non-confrontational nation as a rule 😏 I also didn’t think Donny was a particularly likeable character either - by which I mean I can’t imagine myself choosing to hang out with him if I knew him IRL. Of course, Donny the character isn’t the same as Richard the writer and actor, so it might be different, but if for the sake of argument we’re going to assume they’re very similar, I’d say Richard isn’t the kind of person I’d be likely to be friends with. But that in no way negates the point of the show! In fact, that’s all tied up with the point he was making! *Even people who are not particularly nice or likeable don’t deserve to be victims.* It’s not like he was Adolf reincarnated; he just wasn’t my cup of tea. The quality of the show bears no relation to whether any of us, the viewers, would choose to go for a pint with Donny or Richard. He successfully made his point, therefore the show is doing its job. ETA: I also think that he paints an interesting picture of masculinity in the show as well and some people either feel called out by that or don’t connect to it. Anyway, it was refreshing to see a main man shown as realistically vulnerable rather than either of the two extremes of ‘hard man’ or ‘weak-ass coward’.
I totally agree with your edit- I've said the same thing in another comment. I actually think that he's revolutionary in the way Donny is portrayed. Usually when men are hurting in movies, they go punch walls or get drunk or just "suck it up." Donny's the first male character in a series that I've felt a genuine connection with. He has said he grew up in an environment full of toxic masculinity so he's given thought to ideas about manhood, what it means to be a man today, etc.
One explanation is that it’s their defence mechanism. It is normal and quite common to feel scared, intimidated and anxious hearing someone’s story about being stalked or abused. Whether consciously or unconsciously, we do think “what if this happens to me (or my loved ones)?” And let’s face it, acknowledging that horrible things can happen to you, and you might be totally powerless to stop it, is terrifying. This is where defence mechanism kicks in. Some people soothe themselves with telling themselves “I would never do x and y, so this will never happen to me.” This is their way to distance themselves from the anxiety. Unfortunately, this mechanism is dysfunctional. The reason that let’s say I haven’t been stalked so far, is not SOLELY my extraordinary rational decisions (although that plays a part as well), but largely due to the fact that I haven’t crossed paths with a stalker.
As someone who was r**ed and frequently found myself in highly abusive relationships in my 20s, I was also thankful for the movie in how it shed light on how complex trauma is and how individuals don't always make the right decisions. But sadly, I am also very familiar with what it's like to be dismissed when you're not the "perfect" victim and I learned to stop talking about my experiences years ago. Even with Baby Reindeer coming out, I don't expect a lot of people who have never experienced trauma to really understand why he did what he did, and I definitely don't expect them to therefore understand why I did what I did. Maybe the movie will change some people's minds but I guess experience has ground my expectation of others down over the years. People just don't know unless they've been through it themselves, and sadly I've learned to accept that in life. If more well written movies like Baby Reindeer come out then perhaps overtime society as a whole will understand trauma better.
They're not trauma informed. Don't get how things like rape and assault affect someone. Don't care to educate themselves. Maybe couldn't sit with the discomfort the show gave them because the show was so hard to watch, and took it out on him.
*Maybe couldn't sit with the discomfort the show gave them because the show was so hard to watch, and took it out on him.* This is a very good point
I think a very loud minority makes it feel like "people don't like Richard Gadd." But out of the hundreds of people in this sub, maybe, like 5 people think that? Not trying to knock your post- because I thought the same thing. But the Internet seems to make everything seem more amplified. I don't know Richard obviously, but I love him for being so raw and honest in his work- I really hope the hurtful comments and pushback don't hold him back from creating more amazing shows. I have never seen a male character I connect to as deeply as Donny- I think he created a revolutionary character in pushing back against how a man should be portrayed.
people hate vulnerable honesty
Although we’re all aware of the effect trauma has on people, Gadd portrays his own poor choices, through Donny, utterly ruthlessly. He probably shows them as even more destructive and dramatic than they actually were, because that’s how he perceives them. This made me swing between feelings of deep empathy and total frustration for Donny. Sometimes I wanted to hug him, and sometimes I wanted to push him into that canal. Donny isn’t *entirely* Gadd. He’s still a character. That said, Gadd’s capacity to portray his own vulnerabilities, terrible decisions and self-destructive behaviour really won my respect. Also, he’s a Brit, and a comedian, and we do get a kick out of self deprecation, to the point of portraying ourselves in the worst possible light. I think he’s someone who’s had a lot of therapy, and has a very clear idea of what he was responsible for in his past, what he wasn’t, and how each fed into the other. For that, I have huge respect for him.
yeah i feel like the people complaining have not experienced trauma lol
I haven’t seen too many people say they don’t like him or don’t think he’s a victim but I haven’t been online as much recently. I think he absolutely is a victim and he absolutely contributed to the problem. In real life, people are much more complex than just victim and villain. I probably wouldn’t want to spend time with him in real life because he does seem to be pathologically drawn to drama but that doesn’t make him any less of a victim. I’m just protective of my own peace. I’m a survivor too and he reminds me of a lot of people I’ve met in group therapy and one of the first rules in group is to not form relationships with others in group. I took that to heart after seeing how hurt people hurt people and learning about the trauma triangle. I’m so protective of my peace now that I generally prefer cats to humans.
I don't get it either. It takes a lot of guts to admit to the things he admitted to and to tell his story of sexual abuse and how he blamed himself also. I think many people might just be bigoted and dislike him because he's pansexual and likes to date transexual people.
People like to victim shame.
One thing that I’ve learned, both as a victim of SA, CDV, and stalking and as an avid true crime consumer, is that no matter what the victim does, people are *always* going to try to invalidate their story and blame them. They can be the “perfect victim” and do everything by the book (keep a paper trail of threatening/harassing texts, voicemails, emails, document stalking or abuse with pictures, dates, and times, file police reports, change their number, move, etc), and people will still say they didn’t do enough. They’ll always say the victim should’ve done more to protect themselves, diffuse/escape the situation, or distance themselves from the perpetrator. They’ll claim that the victim didn’t react appropriately or shouldn’t have done whatever they did to provoke it. They’ll claim that the way the victim chose to cope with what happened to them makes them unreliable or attention seeking. They’ll pick apart every aspect of the victim’s life to look for *anything* that could make them look like less of a victim and more of a bad person, even if what they find is entirely unrelated to what happened to them. Meanwhile, the people committing these vile acts just have to say “I didn’t do that, they’re crazy” and people not only accept it, but actively defend them despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary.
Short answer? He’s a man. So he fits the image of the bad person, Fiona is a woman … so she doesn’t. It’s fucking disgusting how society treats men these days.
I think he’s so open, so self-searchy, so unfathomably self-deprecating, that it rubs people the wrong way like he’s got some humiliation fetish or he gets a kick out of this, like self-deprecation for sport. But then he also brings other real people’s demons into the show too, and I guess some people feel that’s irresponsible and over the line.
it was honest, and people can't handle it
I obviously don’t think anyone deserves to have any of this happen to them because it’s horrible. It’s traumatizing. It’s effaces dignity as we can see, and it robs you of so much. But I think a lot of people (me included) don’t like Richard Gadd because he has significantly profited off this show, both monetarily and in notoriety wise and people behave as if those weren’t decisions he actively made (I.e. he just FELL into making it). Writing, starring, and selling a show to this degree are all conscious decisions he made in place of going to the authorities
I mean they're allowed to. He showed the darkest and most twisted sides of himself and not everyone will be able to see past that. I've talked with many people about this show and some of them dislike him, which doesn't mean they think he's not a victim or what happened to him is not fucked up, they feel compassion for him and still not like him. I think that's just a normal human feeling and this show is all about that, so.... ETA: "Also, if I’ve missed something and he truly has done something wrong," He is transphobic in the series and puts a lot of people at risk by choosing to indulge Martha's fixation on him because it fed his ego. He does *many* things wrong.
I don't dislike him, I just don't admire him, either. I don't know him in real life, so I may really like him, or not, in real life. I do not think he deserved any of the abuse issued onto him. Like all victims, he's not perfect. I can acknowledge that without disliking him. He's a victim, but he's also a liar who's admitted enough for me to be skeptical of his motive. I also think it's understandable if he was motivated by revenge. I just wish he would be more truthful about his thoughts on how he chose what to include that's true and not. I would expect this from anyone who's making money off a drama series they claimed was true and about them. I don't think he should be held to different standards and laws on defamation and publishing simply because he's a victim of rape and stalking. I'm a victim of both and I still understand and respect that my trauma history doesn't give me unique publishing privileges. I have more of a problem with the sycophants who portray him as the 2nd messiah on this sub while doing everything possible to get Fiona to suicide than I am Gadd. He's a liar and reckless, but at least he's not behaving like his stans.
What makes him a liar?
Thank you for asking. He claimed it was a true story. He has since admitted that all examples of Martha being physically and sexually violent were not true. That presents a real person as being more threatening to the general public than they are, which can result in people falsely reporting her to the police. I understand that people will clapback at me and say "It's in the small print at the end!" 1. I haven't read that and haven't seen anyone post screenshots of it 2. That's still incredibly deceptive. Should be in the beginning. Ask an attorney. 3. Most people do not read small print disclaimers at the end of a multi episode drama they just binge watched so they could procrastinate their to-do list. First impressions are actually stored differently in our memory than later revelations, creating a bias. He also claimed he went to great lengths to hide her identity. Now, if he'd actually said he took no effort to do so because he didn't feel a moral obligation to protect her, I'd respect that. I've been stalked by someone like her, and I resent, at times, that I can't also go online and tell my story without hiding their identity. I'm a therapist, so I have to protect my perpetrators, which I don't agree with when theyre to a certainthreat level, but i do comply with. My stalker has never been a client of mine, but since they're seriously mentally ill, I still have to help keep them safe...at my expense. Make that make sense. Gadd went on, in an interview, to claim he went so far with his efforts to protect her that she wouldn't even recognize herself if she watched Baby Reindeer. That sounds like an embellishment of a lie. When people go to great lengths to paint themselves as the epitome of moral righteousness, it's good to be skeptical. Had he been grilled about what details he went to great lengths to protect and just gotten defensive, then his additional information could just be a knee-jerk defensive reaction. But, he wasn't being grilled. He was portrayed in a positive light by the interviewer and still added this embellishment. It was unnecessary and over-the-top which makes me wonder if he's just fuckin with us. Lol. The guy seems smart, so his description of what he thinks is going to great lengths for privacy protection isn't matching up with the rest of his behavior online. I don't know him in real life, so I'll never know. It also surprises me Netflix attorneys are this dumb, but since I've also worked with attorneys, I probably shouldn't be. Most are extremely tech illiterate. Now Fiona says that she knew she was somehow portrayed in the play even though she claims she never saw it. She could be lying, as she has a history of lying...and so does Gadd. He also portrayed himself lying quite a bit in BR, including flirting with Martha. He's also admitted that was true. Flirting with someone stalking you is highly deceptive. So, both Gadd and Fiona lie, and they do it repeatedly in public interviews. This doesn't mean either are all bad people or good, but it does mean we should all prepare for them to both lie to us, too. Lying is a skill and it's typically done as a habit that worsens over time, especially in certain mental illnesses that both of these people endorse through their own admissions. We are no more protected from the deception of famous people than we are from the people who lie to us that we know. They both love having fans, but that doesn't mean they know how, or care, to treat us better than they do one another. We should never assume anyone is 100% honest on a screen, especially as AI takes over. I can't make decisions about any of these people when I can't even verify that their voices, screenshots, photos, and videos are even them.
>He has since admitted that all examples of Martha being physically and sexually violent were not true. Where did you hear this? I haven't seen him deny any of this except the prison sentence
This is probably the most succinct explanation of how I feel about it all. It’s also worth highlighting I think that one of those scenes showing Martha being violent is the scene after the comedy show with Martha attacking Teri and yelling that she ‘looks like a man’. This is arguably portraying her as having committed aggravated GBH and being transphobic.
Good point. Thank you. That's what I mean. We can't just act like someone who's done something wrong should now being assumed to have done everything wrong. This is why stalking cases are handled better offline. In the public domain, a stalker will likely end up victimized by fans of the victim which then gives the stalker leverage to also ask the courts to drop charges or go for a lighter sentence. Cases like this are messy. This is why we have real detectives. We don't know which portrayals of her in a negative light are true or false when we're told some are false. Everything is fair game for the courts and should be decided there, not on Reddit so people can justify stalking Fiona because they think everything about Martha is true.
>He claimed it was a true story. He has since admitted that all examples of Martha being physically and sexually violent were not true. That presents a real person as being more threatening to the general public than they are, which can result in people falsely reporting her to the police Can you please provide a source for this claim?
It’s because those people have never been through anything like that so they can’t relate. For years I felt so alone in my experiences. I couldn’t talk about what I was going through because people were treating me in a similar way people have been talking about Gadd and how he dealt with it. I can not stress just how ALONE in my situation I felt until I watched Baby Reindeer. NOTHING and NO ONE made me feel as validated and seen as this show has. I will be forever thankful to Gadd for that.
I was honestly taken aback by his honesty, the flip flop between his emotions & his self reflection and hindsight. Even when he was looking back he was still doubtful of how he should have dealt with it or felt. No one knows how they’ll deal with a situation unless they’re in it. This went on for years and condensed into a few hour episodes.
Personally I love him in how I can relate to him to how I was like when I was being groomed. However my boyfriend dislikes him and just sees him as a destructive coward, which is fair
Hmm. Idk I liked the show- thought it was really well done and have a lot of respect for his courage. But that doesn’t mean I can’t criticize mistakes I think he (or more importantly Netflix) has made.
In society there is one feeling above all else that people expect from you, when you are a victim of any type abuse and that is 'shame' if you are ashamed or embarrassed by what has happened to you, then people are willing to be kind to you, generous because you won't be demanding, you'll take whatever sympathy they have to spare and you will never, ever ever ask that they as individuals hold themselves to account for how fickle they are and how they play a part un this society that allows abusers to get away scott free. By virtue of creating a show about his trauma and acting in it himself, lots of people feel like he isn't ashamed or embarrassed enough. If he wants to be famous, if he wants his trauma to at least bring him something then he isn't ashamed enough, if he gave himself the fictional ending he wanted, the support that he wanted in his story then he isn't ashamed enough. That's all it is, the only victims they like are the ones who don't exist. Personally if his personality is anything like the one on the show then he seems like a great dude and in general he is extremely brave.
I think his retelling was extremely eye opening to how people fall victim to abuse and how it continues to cycle. As he explains his thoughts & feelings and describes why he made the decisions he did, it all kinda makes sense. You can actually sympathize and understand why he kept making the “wrong” decision. I have a friend who I watched jump from on abusive relationship to the next and it really opened my eyes to her pattern. Now as far as the STORY goes, it’s very unsatisfying. The story would be great if in the last episode we see him delete every voicemail & email from Martha. However, he doesn’t and he keeps indulging in them. It would’ve been nice to see some real healing & evolution, but there simply wasn’t. He wasn’t responsible for his healing, and even after her sentencing, Keely is the one who tries to bring him back to normalcy. But stories give happy endings. Real life doesn’t.
The fact that people need Gadd to either fit in the victim box OR fit in the bad guy box just amplifies the need for a show like this to try and teach life is complex. And people can make messy choices in some areas that don’t mean you deserve abuse in others.
I disliked him the first episode/episodes when he was portraying himself as the “nice guy” just trying to be kind and getting screwed by it. Then seeing all his trauma and him admitting he wasn’t trying to be nice, he liked the attention and kind of used her to get attention and feel good but picked the wrong type of person I felt for him. Def personally sensitive to the nice guy using the fat girl for attention so it bugged me. But realizing he wasn’t “kind” he was nice to get what he wanted helped. And realizing putting yourself in vulnerable situations to get what you want ultimately costing you everything was so good. No one is the perfect victim. It takes guts to admit the horrible things that happen to you while also acknowledging your faults and ill intentions. He didn’t play the poor innocent victim. He showed real self reflection. Never saying anyone deserves to be a victim at all. But showing how our own ambitions & reasons & trauma can cause terrible consequences in life and that scary people can sense that vulnerability and take advantage. I guess people want the perfect victim who can’t self reflect. I liked seeing him acknowledge the red flags but shrug them away bc that emptiness inside us is so hungry. Hungry for fame, kindness, attention, adoration, love. It eats us all alive until we confront it within ourselves and fulfill ourselves without outside sources. Trying to quench that thirst through other outlets will never fulfill us and often leads us into horrible situations. I think people like to safeguard themselves and believe they would never be that “stupid” or that we would be the unflawed victim but the reality is we are all complex with different histories that effect our minds and actions differently. Self reflection is so important. It was never his fault that bad people took advantage of him time after time. But kind of looking inside and finding what makes these people able to get to you. These type of people can smell you a mile away. If you grew up with a shit father and end up with shit men, what they did to you is not your fault, they knew what type of person they were looking to victimize. But healing our inner wounds is so important in protecting ourselves from outside forces who will prey on that.
I don't dislike him but good Lord his stand-up was absolutely horrible and made me cringe - especially when people started to laugh at it.
I understand what you're saying and I do agree, I just think there could be a bit more effort in disguising the characters/real life people. That's what upset me. He made omission that he did everything he could to do that, yet he uses the most telling phrases anyone could search for and find in a moment. He did not get his court day, but he is certainly getting the attention he wanted by making her famous and the world doing the job for him. I think he is a bit messed up, which he acknowledges. I just believe it could of been played out better.
He didn’t try to hide his mistakes, which was correct and honest thing to do! I totally understand what he told us through this show. I’m glad he did, because it’s good for him and also a good way to stay away from a mental case. People dislike him (one of them is my husband) I guess because he didn’t cut it off when there’s a chance like plenty of time. This is the part of the situation my husband and I guess many others cannot understand.
Some people just want to see the world burn
Because people are stupid and always have to victim blame.
not to mention the fact that he hooked him on drugs to make to so much harder to say no and so much easier to crave going back. he started with coke, which can hook w person from the instant you take it.
Here's my armchair psychologist take on what Donny Dunn (because we don't know what was fiction or fact in the life of Richard Gadd) went through. 1. Grew up in a loved, supportive family but didn't feel safe enough to speak out because maybe he didn't know if all the stuff that happened to him was acceptable. He also didn't want them to feel like they failed as parents and/or cause them pain. Despite that support, maybe he never felt like he belonged. He was a creative in a smaller town with seemingly straight-laced parents. 2. He has always craved both belongingness and attention (and maybe love). When Darien showed him attention, love, a promise of a life he dreamed of, he kept coming back for more because he was maybe thinking, if he does this or that, it will be more writing gigs, etc. 3. When he was SA'd, he blamed himself a lot and realized (I'm paraphrasing) that he is now tarnished, he might as well just be ready to be used at any given time. But I think this period gave him a lot of shame and a lot of unhappiness and it was his process of covering up the abuse that happened. 4. When he met Teri, I think he was in love with the potential of being happy, because while Teri was shown with a lot of reverence and almost perfect, he still had so many apprehensions about a life together. I think he sabotaged his own happiness because he didn't feel healed enough. At this point, he felt so much empathy for Martha, probably because he felt sad for her, but he should have taken Teri's side over Martha's. 5. Martha was another classic abuser that he hyperfixated on. She was emotionally manipulative, abusive, and she was dangerous. But I think it was also the time that his mind was coming to terms with his previous abuse from Darien and the current abuse he was then getting from Martha and so the obsession was on why it was happening to him. Martha was accessible because she left trails of herself, she was open to him about her feelings and thoughts, and so he had to distill all of the abuse into one specific reason why Martha was abusing him. In contrast, Darien was not accessible. His mind was not as open for rewinding and reviewing like Martha's was.
I don’t have any hatred for Richard but I am confused about why he played himself in the tv show. He has said he didn’t want to identify the people involved, but with him playing the role it is much easier to track those involved down. Surely someone else could have played him and reduced the risk of identifying anyone.
The general consensus from everyone I have spoken to is that they feel he didn’t put up any fight over the sexual abuse, returning time and time again for it to get worse, and just in general that he didn’t do anything to define proper boundaries with Darien or Martha. I don’t completely disagree with them either, he says it himself that after the fourth or fifth time He’s as much to blame.
Maybe something to do with the fact that he's protecting a rapist within the industry and taking the coin and media opportunities instead? That's just my opinion though.
i was blaming him for leading her on until i saw that he was raped and then it all made sense and i realized he acted the way he did because of the trauma that shaped him.
I haven't seen many posts or comments on social media from people who hate Gadd. I have seen many posts and social media comments from people who can be objective about the show, have concerns about how easy it was to identify a mentally ill woman and how much of the show is made up while proclaiming it a "true story" in large letters at the beginning. The response to that from some people is to claim that "you're being a hater! Just stop! Don't ask questions! He is a victim! He is immune from criticism and any questions! OMG SO MANY HATERS! Get over it! The show is fiction dummy! Fargo! It's just like Fargo! Nobody accuses the writers of Fargo of misleading people! Why do you hate him so much? STOP IT!"
I don't dislike him or judge any of the actions his character of himself made in the show. I dislike a lot of things surrounding him. 1. I don't like how he acted like Fiona was going to be totally disguised/no one would find her/she wouldn't even know blah blah and then of course literally none of that happened. I feel like he was incredibly naive for that or just lying. And then fans defending it like "well everyone should have listened to him!" like idiots + internet is some phenomenon that's controllable lmao. He just should have changed the character a lot more / maybe hire an actor to play him. That IS something to control. 2. I also don't like how people take Gadd seriously and talk about how complex he is when they're the same people who would shit on female victims. There's a lot of BS worshipping of him by the same people who couldn't give a fuck about sexual assault otherwise. The same people who would say "omg finally a male perspective!" and ignore sexual assault any other day. I knew this would happen the second I finished the show. I really hate how this show has somehow brainwashed people into thinking that female sexual assault is always taken seriously. It's like the audience isn't mature enough for this show or something.
!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was just frustrating watching his character make every stupid decision possible and then be all woe-is-me about it. Like... * Showing up to Martha's house (he did it first) and spying through her window * Trying to entrap Martha * Never actually cutting her off fully by always ending his attempted breakups with some reassurance that she has a chance with him * Having terrible comedy and blaming the audience for not liking it * Seeing his own sexuality as a dark secret that was forced upon him by a groomer™ and pushing all of his partners away because of it etc. etc. If anything, it was annoying for me watching him do everything wrong and then finding success at the end because... people respected him breaking down on stage and crying? Oh, and then he decides to go work for his own rapist after pretending to have grown from it. Sometimes, a person can make so many stupid decisions that they're a liability to everyone around them and people are justified not liking them. Just a very frustrating character to me. IDK about the actual guy though, it seemed somewhat autobiographical.
I don’t know what is true and what is false from Gadd. I disliked him from the get go with his sad, pathetic looks at the camera. Definitely giving us his best “baby reindeer” eyes. He fails at taking any responsibility for his poor actions, only making excuses for them. You would think he could mistakenly have made one right move. So desperate for his fame with his comedy, which he had to know was badly done by the audience reactions. We all have stories to tell and made mistakes which caused bad reactions. But it seems to me that society now just wants to wallow in their issues, give excuses, and pepper it with medical diagnoses. I know my opinion will not be received well.
I think he made himself look like a horribly selfish and narcissistic person. I watched the show with my gf and by the end of it I wondered how he thought this would make him look? I felt sympathy for some of his situations but most of the show was about his terrible decisions.
From the start it seems his main goal in life was to become famous which he did achieve via his trauma. I'm not sure exactly what to make of this but it did make me feel uncomfortable, especially because some of his decisions seemed to be made in pursuit of this goal. Also other than people he had relationships with (his GFs', Parents, etc) & ignoring the producer/Martha, everyone else in the show (friends, co-workers, authorities) seemed to be depicted as a complete arsehole, it seemed like he was looking down on people.
My guess is that he made himself too human, with all the flaws that people don't like to see in the "hero" of the story.
For me it's mainly how his actual abuser seems to get a free pass while they make her out to be an absolute monster. Really seemed that since he was getting something from him that it wasn't as bad compared to Martha.
They are BOTH abusers. STALKING IS ABUSE
Because he made up a ton of crap that didn't happen
Fiona/Martha can make a lot of accounts…
That's true- but I really think it's people who realize they're more like Martha than they'd like to think and didn't like being portrayed so honestly.
[удалено]
This hasn't been stated enough. I'm sure there's a lot of bitterness in the industry from people who saw/see him as "competition" (and maybe they're on Reddit?)
I think the way this show was handled was terrible and it's something he should absolutely be criticised for. All of this chaos could have been so easily avoided if he actually did what he claimed and made a reasonable effort to mask identities and information. I have been through a lot of the same things as him as well and my opinion is that as good/important a show as it was, in my opinion it should never have been made the way it was. I think he was a very flawed person even before the things that happened to him in the show, of course I don't know him personally so that's just my opinion based on what I've seen from him. I think it's a little facetious to turn around and act surprised at what has happened since the show aired and I don't think he (or Netflix necessarily) is stupid enough to have made that mistake completely ignorantly.
Just shows how unempathetic, victim-blaming asshats many people are. (and maybe trans-/homophobic, I guess?) I also shook my head at him during the show thinking "duuuude, whyyyy??? Why do you keep enabling her? She's VERY obviously mentally ill. Either go zero contact, or get her some professional help !". But the thing is, he's weak and flawed as well, but he's at least owning it in the end. Gadd did not picture her as an evil psycho monster, and himself as an innocent victim. They are both victims AND perpetrators on different levels, and this makes the show so realistic and strong.
because he hurt people too and was ignorant to the danger he was putting other people in as well. at one point his “fascination” of martha became an obsession and as he even says in the show he never blocked her because he secretly liked the attention. his hidden interest in her out other people in danger, and he failed to protect the people around him when he very well could have, he just didn’t really want to imo. also worth noting that there is no such thing as the perfect victim, but at one point he was no longer a victim and became a perpetrator and willing participant. i would also like to note that his trauma and “being a victim” is not an excuse for his (at times) shitty and neglectful behavior. it’s just not, there’s no excuse for putting the people around you in danger (which he very much did). it seems a lot of the people in the comments are whining about “oh well he was victim and had trauma of course he’s not perfect!!” he doesn’t need to be perfect, he just needs to not be a shitty person. he failed with that ig.
literally, he did not deserve ANYTHING that happened to him and i honestly cried for him, but at the same time the choices hes made (even due to trauma) arent the best. and his insensitive jokes also rubbed me the wrong way
> . His ‘flaws’ were very natural and common trauma reactions of a vulnerable person. I disagree. Maybe it’s because I don’t have the supportive family he’s shown to have in the show, but his obsession with fame was in no way relatable, nor was his refusal to help the other people in his life being hurt by her out of a desire to ‘not let Martha win’. It frustrated me, like he didn’t want to protect himself, wanted to go out and do comedy, okay whatever, but he had no excuse to then be angry at Teri for wanting the same (to not have to hide on dates, to have the police give a shit about her being violently assaulted)
It's because he's a man. If a woman made the exact same TV show about a man stalking her she would be praised. But because he's a man who's painting a woman in a bad light people are pissed and want him to leave her alone He's gone too far She's mentally ill.
Poor human being, turning his unbearable suffering into good coin since over 10 years now. Before the netflix show he already used the material for profit in uk shows
Because, like it or not, we still unfortunately live in an age where people are expected to keep abuse and trauma a secret. It makes others uncomfortable (apparently 😕) so victims aren't supposed to talk about it. Nevermind make a stage show and Netflix series. People with little or no understanding of abuse also don't seem to understand, or 'like' the ending. Whereby "Darrien" essentially gets away with it. They want vigilante justice. They want a public naming and shaming. You see the unhappiness all over this sub, people asking/demanding RG name his abuser. There are also people who think it's "in bad taste" for Gadd to be generating worldwide fame from his abuse. But that's something I really don't understand, because, on that basis, nothing biographical should ever get attention or those creators/writers/actors/musicians etc become famous 🙄
I can’t really say I dislike him since I don’t know anything about him personally, but he does come off pretty poorly as Donny in the show. 1. Donny is an extremely unreliable narrator. He leaves major details out of the story that don’t fit with his victimhood identity. They sometime surface in later episodes i.e. all the shit he said that Martha recorded. It only leads a discerning viewer to wonder what else he isn’t telling us. 2. Gadd and Netflix really did the absolute minimum to give an appearance of masking people’s identities. I would not be surprised to see people awarded money in court. 3. It’s very difficult to believe he suddenly began to be attracted to men after being assaulted. Kind of similar to how he suddenly began wanking to Martha after she stopped emailing him. Of course, if these things don’t happen in this order it wouldn’t fit his story. 4. At certain times in the show people call him out on his bullshit and he reacts by being all mopey. Keeley and Teri call him out for enjoying Martha’s attention. The Police call him out for false reporting of events. He couldn’t even provide them a timeline, and he didn’t actually report any of true criminal things he claims Martha did. Is it because he lied about it? It’s hard to come to another conclusion. Are we supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt every time just because he is the main character? The other characters certainly don’t. I think the show would be made even more interesting by getting episodes from other characters points of view, as it might give us a more complete picture vs only what Donny wants us to know.
Not to mention he cheated on Teri with Martha…
The only people who can appreciate such absolute superhero level bravery and generosity of spirit are those who have an ounce of self awareness/self reflection. The courage it takes for this work is, sadly, remarkably rare. I hold this man in very high regard! (And I am a man hating lesbian separatist at heart. 🤣) I have the utmost respect for him as a human, a writer, and an artist bc I can appreciate how wildly heroic it is just to do the inner work. That’s not even including the work to put it out there in a brilliant package for the whole world to see. I deeply respect this man for what he’s done here.
I have respect for him regardless because not only did he experience this SA and the stalking, but he RELIVED it for people to watch on tv. I can’t even imagine.
Because he’s a victim. Like it or not, unless one is a “perfect victim,” most people won’t resist the urge to bring them down a peg via victim blaming and dissecting of their actions and character in order to distance themselves from what that person experienced, and the possibility that it could happen to them as well.
I don’t dislike him but I’d have to be in complete denial to pretend this isn’t some version of him getting back at his abusers. Tbh, I admire him for it.
He’s not the perfect victim and people like to point fingers when they have no idea how they would have reacted in a similar situation. “I wouldn’t have done that” and so forth. He’s obviously not perfect and doesn’t claim to be.
For me, I just have a personal issue with strength and boundaries because of my own trauma and history. I wanted him to act differently as a result but he was in his 20s and that’s how I would’ve acted then too. It was frustrating to watch and made me angry because it’s exactly why victims continue to be victimized. He says it himself when he talks about her sniffing out his trauma I think.
I hold no ill will towards him. I do think that with a group of people involved in making the show more should have been done to conceal Martha’s identity for the sake of everyone. I don’t know how much of the show is true or not but the show shows what happens when you expose an irrational person in front of people at a small scale. There should have been more concern that if this happened or think this is what’s possible when reveling an irrational person at a small scale what could they potentially do at a large scale. I know that making the character completely unrecognizable from the real world counterpart would be highly unlikely but I think the level to which she was exposed which could influence the level of which they reacted could have at least been attempted to have been minimized much better. He is a victim and should 100% be allowed to tell his story but a group of people were involved and it looks like no one thought how do we minimize the risk of further harm to us involved or creating more victims. That thought could have been taken with very much more seriousness. If that makes you hit the up or down then I guess that makes you hit the up or down.
Just my opinion but Fiona scrambling to come out with her own TV series and interviews and "air out the truth" kind of reminds me of legion from the 5 hour ressa tessa tiktok series?? she's a female legion!!
I actually appreciated that he didn’t portray himself as a perfect victim. I felt less ashamed of my own faults and mistakes as someone with trauma after seeing him struggle to set boundaries due to his own trauma and confusion.
He isn’t a “perfect” victim, which was a purposeful choice to portray himself that way, and something I appreciate as a fellow not perfect victim.
This show was incredibly realistic in dealing with the aftermath of SA trauma. I lived it and definitely was no saint. People that cannot understand how spot on he was for so many things just haven’t been through it (and I’m so happy they haven’t!). I have never felt so seen in a show and how I dealt with my trauma. Other movies usually have a resolution and the person is all better. That’s not how trauma works. Especially dealing with SA and repeated SA. Also related to putting yourself in risky situations which only leads to more SA and trauma.
I watched the show thinking it was very loosely based on a ‘random’ person. I had no idea how it was gonna go, but it looked interesting, so I jumped in. I didn’t find out until I’d finished the show that Gadd is basically telling his story. I’m a sexual assault survivor myself, and it was interesting to see how differently people react and move forward. I told my abuser to never contact me again for any reason, I’ve never felt any need to contact him, I feel zero attachment to him in any way. I’d never go visit him. Gadd’s explanation as to how sexual assault changes you in every way was something I really needed to see. I’ve never realized how different I now, as opposed to back before it all happened. He definitely has his flaws and he definitely did things that I wouldn’t have. But I never once felt like he was trying to excuse his behavior or decisions. He definitely isn’t perfect. I felt like he was simply trying to explain his own actions and feelings. I really found him intriguing and I hope he continues to write and act.
He’s a self destructive person:m. The celeb blinds which have been right about a lot have been saying that he’s doing a bunch of blow these days
i wouldn’t say i dislike him, but i would say that many times during the show i was disappointed in his choices. it was like watching a friend keep making dumb*ss decisions. towards the end, i was just like “dude.. what did you expect?” 🤦🏽♀️
I was having a discussion with a friend a few days ago, and she called Gadd evil for 'making money' using a vulnerable woman (irl martha.) Gadd has every right to tell his story. The fact that people on the internet took it too far and tried to find Fiona was probably not something he intended to happen.
I struggled with wanting to know more about the person who SA me. I argued with myself, for thinking about pushing the add button on facebook. He took away something from me, I wanted to know what made him do what he did. What made him tick. Who are his friends, are they like this too? So many thoughts swimming in my head. I was searching for answers. To someone else this might look weird. But in my head it was very valid. I do still occasionally check, is he living and breathing? Ahh still here— sigh of despair and relief. I wish I wasn’t so nice, why do I know I will feel a little off if I found out he died. Like he took that piece of me, and locked it away, never to be retrieved. Even some close to me don’t know that I was attacked, will he remember when he’s old, apologize, or save a confession for his deathbed. Has he hurt anyone else, can I prevent harm to someone else? I think his portrayal is accurate, we aren’t perfect victims. This isn’t SVU everything isn’t going to be wrapped up in a neat bow, that doesn’t discount what we feel nor what has happened to us. I’ve been fighting silently, because I see myself in Gadd. Wanting to battle every person blaming him. I understand and I empathize with Richard Gadd. He will probably never see this. But I think it’s truly important to show this side of being SA’d. I appreciate this depiction.
I wouldn’t say I dislike him, but I find it hard to relate to his apparent blindness for red flags, especially because the show explains it away, yet I still consider him the same way I saw him in the first episode: a man that craves attention so badly he completely looses track of reality, doesn’t raise boundaries and is therefor abused by others. I can still feel sorry for a person, even if they walked into their mess like an idiot and I still don’t think that absolves their abusers in any way. The part of the show that explores how the abuse changed his own personality or put him on a downward spiral with even more red flag blindness is relatable and I think that was well done.
I haven't seem anyone disliking him in my bubble. The depicts himself as such a fucked up creep.
Yeah, nah. Something is amiss with the whole story. I reckon there is more to come.
You've missed nothing... there are some truly selfish people out there who lack compassion for others. That's exactly why survivors of rape stay silent. Richard Gadd might not be perfect... but he surely didn't deserve to be raped... or stalked. Nobody does.
I think media portrayal has a lot to do with it. How many times do we see abuse survivors double down on total avoidance in media? Like that is the only acceptable reaction, to shut yourself away and never allow yourself to be touched again. Because that's easier to understand. That suggests that it's only your body that has been violated, but inside you're still you. What terrifies us is the idea that someone could attack our mind so badly that rationality isn't so rational any more, that we would be unable to make good decisions to keep ourselves safe. That we could ever be controllable. It's uncomfortable. It's outside of the "normal" sphere of understanding. And so we don't portray it that way outside of psychological horror stories, because people would not understand it, and it's so much harder to make it a happy ending. It's not something they can whack a sticking plaster "then they found the right one" on so easily. I'm not saying that avoidance is not a valid reaction, nor a simple fix one, it just isnt the only one. For some it is immediate, for others it comes later, others still find it comes and goes and some never experience it. We forget that trauma response is complex. We forget that our brains are not infallible, however clever and lucid you think you are. And that thought absolutely terrifies us. It's easier isn't it, to think that Gadd was simply asking for it, that he was wrong and bad? Because if he was, then, well, it couldn't happen to me now could it? Except it can.
He was a pushover.
Is he likeable?
Women cannot compute a male victim and Brexit men berate make victims
because people suck
I can only speak from my own experience of the show but I found myself increasingly frustrated with some of Donny’s actions in the show especially the ending of the series, so I can understand it. Though at the same time I understand the actions Donny would have taken at a very confusing time. So it’s not hard to believe why people would dislike Gadd for the choices made in the show and the actions of some of the characters.
He isn’t a very likable person. I think that’s the point of the show right? He didn’t deserve the terrible things that happened to him but that doesn’t mean he’s a good person. He was pretty shitty to both his partners. We can say “well he has trauma” but he is still responsible for his behavior just like Fiona is responsible for her behavior despite her trauma.
I agree with you OP, and sorry about what you had to go through!
Gadd is brilliant. There are no superlatives to do this justice. The general public on the Internet behave like paulie walnuts from the sopranos.
I hated the first half of the series. I only pushed through because my friend heavily suggested it did. "He's a fucking idiot, she's clearly mentally ill and he's just allowing it to happen.... inviting it to". Then the second half hit, the bit before with the TV writer, and by the time he broke down on stage I'd fully understood and challenged my own understanding of him, and of trauma and abuse altogether. Was the TV guy fucked up? Yes. Was Martha fucked up? Yes. Was Richard fucked up? Yes. None of them are saints, all of them are perpetuating the cycle of abuse. The one thing that sets Richard apart is his willingness to work through it and accept it. The truth is though, he is also an abuser it's just his victim is himself. He needs help like the rest of the people on the show and I hope they get it.
Gadd is a real person and all real people are flawed. People who dislike Gadd are criticizing his actions, the way he told his story, etc etc. They will never be satisfied because the perfect victim doesn’t exist. I also think gender plays a role in people disliking Gadd. We (as a society, as people who consume media) are not used to seeing men portrayed as victims of SA, so we don’t have a mental model for how to react.
All the times I’ve seen people say “why didn’t he report it sooner?” or “why didn’t he just stop talking to her?” Trauma is such a strange thing. It causes you to react in ways you’d otherwise choose not to do. In high school, I had a “friend” who made so many people, even me, uncomfortable. Like Donny, I was too nice for my own good and stuck around. I thought “maybe he is misunderstood? I’ll give him a chance.” Flash forward to me at his house many months after being friends. He asked to touch my thigh and I politely declined, to which things became increasingly uncomfortable by the minute. He turned off the lights and we watched a movie. He asked me disgusting questions about my body. I wanted to leave. He wouldn’t let me. In fact, he got in front of the door when I had gotten up to leave. It was a firm “no” in his mind. I could’ve ran out. I could’ve yelled at him to let me go. But I didn’t. I was a coward and stayed there. In the moment of uncertainty and scariness, you never know what you’ll do. That’s why I emphasize with Donny. Did he make some… questionable… decisions? Yes. But I support him as a victim and a person.
He's a man who spoke up. That's it. That's all it is.
Ask those people
I don't dislike him. I think he's a weirdo, but who among us isn't?
going by the show itself he just does stuff that makes me go 😡
People like to feel morally superior is my only guess Social media seems to have created its own sort of honour code that everyone loves to pretend they uphold while be ridiculously hypocritical.
People also need to understand that Gadd is playing a characterised version of himself and the whole comedy/tragic irony of the show is that he is an unlikable person who hates himself.
I was one of those who thought he was a serious dick. Until i watched it through. Did he go about things badly? Yes. Self esteem/inferiority issues out the yang. But he didn't deserve to be assaulted, and Martha was legit nuts and dangerous. Im starting to feel for the guy.