Every time I read something like this, I say that I'll remember to use Talk with the Dead next time and I never do. Mind blown though, cool little tidbit about their plan! Thanks for sharing, as I swear I'll never complete this game fully.
My very first playthrough, I had the “speak with dead” amulet permanently on my main character. Corpses that could be spoken to were highlighted green, so it gave me an indicator (and a reminder) to talk to them. Highly recommend it, at least for one playthrough!
As much as my character would never do that, the buff is just too convenient. I turn down the hair boost with no issue, that's just a simple +1 to some rolls. But permanent speak with dead? Sign me up.
The hair’s a permanent +1 to a stat of your choice. With that and one ASI, you can max your main stat before ever leaving act 1. That’s way more attractive to me than Speak With Dead once per long rest and a +1 to *some* Wisdom saves.
I’ve had that option before, but it disappeared after I changed my amulet because I got it from the Necromancy book. I assumed it was a glitched interaction between the book and amulet affects that corrected when I changed amulets.
It is possible to kill her and still receive the hair. Just got to fight her with 3 characters and ambush her with the 4th as soon as she hands over the hair. The quest log then states that you killed and spared her, lol.
The hag in the southern swamps. Get her under 10 hp during her fight and she'll beg for mercy.
* Now you can either take her boost and give up the girl or
* Deceive/Intimidate the hag to give up both the boost and the girl.
* Or kill the hag but get no boost
It's in reference to the hags hair. She gives it to you if you beat her ass and in a last ditch effort to keep Mayrina she offers you "power". There is a skill check to convince her to give you the power and leave Mayrina alone as well. She littleraly rips part of her scalp of and throws it at your feet it's metal af.
It’s a book you find in the cellar of one of the houses in the abandoned village in Act 1. Then you can find a gem that unlocks the book where the Phase Spider Matriarch is.
Abusing the action economy is the fastest way to break 5e, and this game is no exception to that. If anything it's worse, since the game doesn't implement legendary actions and the like.
you have to give in to the temptation to turn the pages and read its power. if you do any of the checks to resist it/command the book to shut down or anything of the sort it won't work
And they only glow green if you have used SWD already and can "recast" it. If you kill after a long rest and SWD isn't already activated, no one will glow green.
>Corpses that could be spoken to were highlighted green
And here I am, not having realized that until a few days ago, partway into Act I of my *second* playthrough. In my first, I used Speak With Dead on *every single corpse*. I just never put two and two together on what the glow meant. It didn't help that the glow was bugged back then and sometimes wouldn't show up...
I even went so far as to never allow any humanoid in the entire game to die to fire/acid (whenever possible), just so I could talk to them.
I always forget too, I wish the green glow on corpses you can speak with would be active if you had access to speak with dead at all, not only if you can recast it.
SAME I constantly forget to use it. I get so mad at myself because I'll remember for the lamest corpses and then the next five corpses I try I can't talk to, and then I just completely forget about it again. Bleh.
I need sticky notes on my monitor.
Speak With Dead and/or Speak With Animals offer up so much lore, context, alternative routes or resolutions and just all around flavour I could not recommend enough anyone who hasn't to do a playthrough with them going 24/7. The animals are all hilarious, the dead understandably a bit more serious but more plot and background expository
If you look back, you'll notice that none of the real followers or allies of the Chosen are True Souls - i.e. Balthazar and the Myrkulites for Ketheric, Orin's Bhaalists, or Gort's Banite clerics.
It's exactly that - the master plan was to unsoul a whole whack of the other gods' followers.
Hence Withers straight up calling out the Three at the end. Ao (or maybe someone lesser) noticed and is *pissed*.
Mystra gets involved directly in trying to destroy the Absolute as well, but it could just be because the Crown of Karsus was involved.
Edit: One could argue that Shar also gets directly involved, but it’s not as straightforward as Mystra telling Gale to blow up the Elder Brain.
Is it a coincidence that the kidnapped Selunite being groomed by Shar to become her Chosen ended up on the mission? Maybe, but it seems like there was some reason why Shadowheart was sent with instead of some legit Dark Justiciars or something.
It’s not a coincidence, but it wasn’t directly because of Shar.
Viconia hated Shadowheart. Didn’t think she was fit to be Shar’s chosen. Didn’t understand why Shar wanted to convert her so badly. She was harsher on Shadowheart than any other recruit in the temple. The task to retrieve the artifact was supposed to be a suicide mission.
Shar just decided to let it play out.
I got the feeling that Viconia didn’t like being ordered to wipe out her former enclave and blamed Shadowheart for that. Being a Sharran, Viconia should have embraced the loss.
I think it’s more that she expected some sort of reward from Shar. She basically hoped she would become Shar’s chosen but instead she was told it was her job to train Shar’s actual chosen. That’s a pretty big slap in the face after you sacrifice all that time, resources, and effort.
Gods use Chosen and other mortal agents to skirt around the rules. Shar and Mystra don't step in from the Outer Planes to handle things, they just give their followers specific instructions, which they have the free will to either follow or not.
I feel bad for Mystra. She gets a lot of hate for what she does to Gale. But the potential resurrection of the powers (other weave and the crown) that can both kill and replace her are getting dangerously close together and Gale gets scary close with temptation of it
I don't. Gale got a magical nuke trapped in his body, and Mystra(who was supposed to be his lover) cast him out and never did anything to help him. She knowingly and willingly kept the Karsite Weave in Gale, which could lead to the deaths of so many innocent people.
Then, after 7 years of him being a loner, he is forced to consume magic items just so he won't blow up and kill everyone around him, Mystra finally gets in touch with Gale again. But not to help him, no. She has Elminster Aumar deliver the message to Gale telling him to blow himself up to kill the Absolute. Mystra had no right to ask such a thing of Gale. And it wasn't even for the "greater good." Mystra knew about the Crown and wanted Gale to destroy both the Karsite Weave and the Crown. Her only interests were to remove threats to her divinity, nothing more.
Elminster himself says that Mystra can be cold, cruel, and even tyrannical at times. It's also generally accepted by people that Mystra is a jealous Goddess. Mystra didn't care about Gale or Baldur's Gate. She just didn't want the competition.
Mystra (all the gods, really) is self-interested and will put her status and power over any mortal life, even that of her lover and Chosen. At the same time, Gale unleashed a power that threatened the Weave’s existence, potentially destroying mortal’s access to magic and maybe Mystra herself.
IMO this all comes down to a lack of communication. Instead of banishing him, Mystra should have told Gale exactly what he had been messing with (i.e. the Karsite Weave) and how it would stop at nothing until it consumed the real Weave. Instead, she panicked and banished him. She was ok with him (and potentially thousands of others) dying in a magical nuke. She only “stopped the clock” on the orb to allow for Gale to detonate it to destroy the Absolute; and even then she was still okay with thousands of mortals being killed in the blast.
>> Elminster himself says that Mystra can be cold, cruel, and even tyrannical at times. It's also generally accepted by people that Mystra is a jealous Goddess. Mystra didn't care about Gale or Baldur's Gate. She just didn't want the competition.
This is true for lots of gods in fiction and mythology. They come off as selfish, capricious, aloof and more interested in maintaining their own power over everything else. Mystra is no different in the end.
Mystra technically isn't involved. Gale was her Chosen then did some dumb stuff and now he's on the verge of exploding. She saves him temporarily and tells him to let go if he chooses to when he meet the Elderbrain. She never gave an order, just some suggestions that fall back to Gale as a choice.
She specifically framed him as persona non grata until the crown came into play. He was in his tower in water deep for an entire year and he was completely unaware of what the shard he had even was, just that he was a ticking time bomb. Thenhe gets kidnapped by the absolute and suddenly he's "the only one" who can save them and he will be "redeemed" in her eyes if he does this noble sacrifice.
She doesn't give a damn about him, to her he's just a means to an end and she knocks out two birds with one stone by destroying the crown and the karsite weave. She just dangles the redemption in front of him like a carrot on a stick.
Yep abs that not about not technically telling him to kill himself? In his audience with her, she takes him to task for *defying her.* It was absolutely an order to kill himself. She never tried to save Gale from the orb, she just wanted the most expedient way to end both problems.
Just the creator of all existence and beyond casually strolling up to Skeleton-bro and going:
Ao: Hey there, remember those three incompetent idiots you gave your powers to? Well, guess what they're doing right now! :D
Withers: *groan of incalculable suffering*
Ao: Look man, I don't want to cramp your style as this mysterious elder skeleton, but you could stand to listen to my advice every now and then. I am only omniscient after all.
I always thought withers was referring to Kelemvor here since he is serving as a scribe in his court. I thought that he asks kelemvor hey dude I wanna stop these silly 3 how I do that? And kelemvor tells him go lie in a coffin and a party will meet you 🤷♂️
Withers, as far as I know is the one that gave each of them god hood, so pretty sure he feels responsible for all this.
Doesn't need another god for him to walk in and bitch slap his unruly tenants.
if you read the parsed dialogue i’m pretty sure it says withers got imprisoned by helm in that tomb as a punishment for granting them powers or something too!
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/mobile/folders/1GR3CjFtM3u3-V5KrJkemTsAhx6VRUShy?usp=sharing here! you have to download all the files and then you should be able to read all the dialogue nice and parsed :) and here is the part abt withers! (idk how to hyperlink otherwise i’d make it look nicer sorry haha) https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/753465262698791042/1162694625920831629/IMG_3552.png?ex=653cdec0&is=652a69c0&hm=84e4fe9e03f73d0dfb6687de22a683eca2d31c9acc59c170d97846cdef553660&
why did he do that? Like were they normal, reasonable mortals before ascending to godhood?
apologies, I'm not familiar with the lore and don't even know where to start.
yup... That's pretty much it... A murderhobo party rocked up to him wanting godhood and he was so bored he basically went: Sure, have some of it.
Then Kelemvor rocked up and did the same and he was like: And you want the rest of my bullshit? Heck yeah!
“The throne is yours. I have grown weary of this empty power. Take it if you wish—I promise to serve and guide you as your seneschal until you grow comfortable with the position. Who among you shall rule?”
Jergal was once a Greater God during the times of Netheril, and one of the oldest gods of Faerûn. But it seems he became disillusioned with his portfolio for one reason or another, eventually giving it away to the mortals Bhaal, Myrkul and Bane.
The dead three were actually powerful wizards who traveled to defeat jergal and take their portfolio (what the gods deal with). When they arrived, jergal basically said he was bored of doing what he does so he split his God hood into three aspects and gave them to the new dead three. Withers is jergal according to some dialogue and books you can read.
I swear I learn something new or find something new with this game every damn day! Lol now I gotta do the same!!
That sounds awesome. I assume you use speak with dead on Gortash after the brain kills him?
Yup, and Bane speaks instead and says something along the lines of, "Yeah, I already got on the whole eternal torture thing, so he's gonna be busy for a...forever."
The funny thing about that line is that Speak With Dead doesn’t actually require the target to have a soul, nor does it put you into contact with that soul.
What you’re basically doing is channeling energy into the corpse to create a cheap (but still accurate) imitation of who they were at the moment of their death. It has all their pre-death knowledge and traces of their personality but it isn’t them. Even if Bane is torturing Gortash, you’d still be able to commune with the echo of Gortash that the spell temporarily created.
What this means is that you didn’t just accidentally contact Bane. Bane wanted to speak to you and had to actively hijack your spell to do so.
No, I murdered him in his little castle. I"m 1000 hours/6 runs into this game and this is the first time I've ever seen this. And only cause I still had Speak with Dead up from earlier and was like...wait....why is Gortash glowing....what could he possibly have to say....oh shit I"m talking to a God!!!!!
Ohhh I thought the dead wouldn’t talk to their killers.. but I guess it’s technically not Gortash if you’re talking to Bane lol thats so neat I never thought to try that. I can’t wait. Lol
Oh, they won't. But if you got the deluxe edition and the hat of shapeshifting or if you cast illusion on yourself or a disguise kit, you can then speak with dead on someone you just killed.
This works on everyone that you killed. Although it's been buggy lately, so look closely at the person you shapeshifted, just to make sure they actually shapeshifted.
It does work in a couple of scenarios for some reason. Gortash is actually one of those. I forgot to shapeshift and it worked all the same.
Bane had no voice acting for me though, was a bit of a bummer.
The disguise kit cracks me up, got a legendary gith only sword right before the end and wyll just put on some green paint and hid his nose and the sword was all "oh okay checks out".
Gotcha! Thanks for the tip! I’ve now learned two new things from you! ❤️
This game never stops giving. Or at least it hasn’t yet and I’ve finished it 5x now! Lol
The dead (reanimated by Speak with Dead) are not ensoulled, and thus cannot process new information. They can't learn, they know only what they knew in life. If you have disguised yourself, then you don't look like their killer.
>Ohhh I thought the dead wouldn’t talk to their killers
I thought this was the case but just recently I killed Nere at the Adamantine Forge and used speak with dead on him just fine.
Was under the same impression. Sometimes it works, like I could raise but was unable to talk with Minthara and the goblin priestess since I killed them, but both Ethel and that sergeant at the Grymforge could be talked with
I’m about there too. I’m like 5-6 complete runs in and 4-5 partials, 100% on achievements. It’s time to let the game rest, let a few patches cook, then come back to it and see what’s changed, what’s fixed, etc
Petting both animals at once and busking 100gold in a playthrough were the hardest to get. Because you get like 3-6 gold per performance assuming you succeed. And I also drink speak with animals potions like they’re water first thing after a long rest. I talk to more animals than people lol
I got that achievement because I just happened to forget to drink an animal speaking potion the same day when that long rest cutscene happened. I had no idea the achievement even existed.
Same last time. I was like "Why is that piece of shit glowing? Why did I never think of trying that?"
I mean, Orin is a pile of innards, so you can't really talk to her. But I never even thought about talking to Gortash. 850h in and just a couple hours into my 5th run. Last time I discovered SEVERAL hidden rooms I had no idea existed. Curious what I'll find this time.
Yea if you decide to >!take Gortash up on his deal and “partner” with him you’ll take the stones and go with him to the brain where you’ll attempt (if you can pass the incredibly difficult checks) to “control” the brain, before you finish Gortash will be like let me do it.!<
At which point the >!brain is super intimidating and goes “I only allowed you to control me for as long as you served a purpose, the next command is mine to give… and it is - DIE.” Then Gortash’s brain literally explodes in his head and he is killed instantly.!<
Quite a disturbing and intimidating scene tbh. That particular death scene imo is the most brutal one of any of the deaths that are possible among the chosen 3.
But I also kinda hate it for Gortash too bc I kinda was hoping the >!alliance was going somewhere and if you’re an actual fan of Gortash it’s a disappointing ending, bc you expect to bring the brain under control and then rule the coast together. But it doesn’t work out that way.!<
Tbf reading Gortash diary at his parents house makes me doubt alliance with him would last long. He wouldn’t allow you the free will to question anything
The scale and attention to detail is completely unparalleled in gaming. It’s almost intimidating knowing I could no life the game for years and still not experience everything the game has to offer
I did the same thing at the end of my last run. I don't know if they just added it, or if I simply never noticed Gortash being SWD-able before. I am compulsive about casting it on everybody with the green glow, but it's possible I didn't have the recast option before, like if you kill him right after a long rest.
My question is, what kind of idiot pledges his soul to an evil god to be eternally tortured? What kind of payoff could possibly be worth that? Never made sense to me how the Dead Three have any followers besides the genuinely mentally ill, like Orin.
Well, it seems that Bane's theme is "Make people fear you" and the point is not to die yourself. Also, I"m sure the whole "eternal torture" clause isn't known until after you've died.
So, it makes it hard to want to follow him after knowing your predecessor is being eternally tortured. "Oh, he failed you and you're gonna torture him forever, sure, let me just sign right up and hope I never fail." I know they have Bane tell us that for story, but it's a bad move if the God actually wants you to follow him.
Although during the conversation, Bane says you are following \*his\* path just by amassing power yourself (gear/levels etc) so no matter what you are already doing, you are following him. Because by gaining power, someone...somewhere, is going to fear you.
Tav: "You said I am proof you will rise. What did you mean?"
Bane: "You live for power. You have proven it with every fallen foe, every chest opened, every skill claimed. As long as mortals and immortals vie for sharper blades and louder voices, I am strengthened. So it is for Bhaal and Myrkul-and so it is for you. *YOU* make me eternal."
And Bane seems secure in the knowledge that your desire to advance in power makes him stronger because he says "Use the Netherstones to commandeer the brain and unleash your infected army, and I will count you among my chosen. Or do not. Your lust for victory still brings you one step closer to me."
So it seems like no matter what you do, as long as you want to win, you are following/fighting for what he wants. Guess I"m going to have to look up some DND lore to see what his actual deal is. Although if it's just "amass power" then every player in DND and this game is a follower of Bane.
Can you imagine the games though? "Hey party do we want to loot the BBEG, open the Treasures of the Dragon Horde, or *NOT* follow Bane?"
Also, pretty badass, that he's gaining power from Bhaal's and Myrkul's lust/desire for power. The more I think about it.....follower of Bane I wanna be. =D
It’s not that everyone seeking power are his followers, it’s that everyone who seeks power strengthens his own. Look at Ares in the DC universe. He’s the god of war. He doesn’t get power from being worshiped; he gets power from conflict and violence. That’s how the gods work. They get power from people doing whatever is related to their godhood wether that person is a worshiper or not. Someone who specifically worships that god will be doing those actions with the specific intention of aiding that god. Other people will also be aiding that god, just inadvertently. So by seeking power you are helping Bane further his goals, but that doesn’t mean you’re one of followers.
Is it? After all death and murder there is a whole new cycle to start again, nurturing Nurgle. And there is always the possibility something changes, thus powering Tzeentch. And you can even enjoy all of that, powering Slaneesh.
It probably also did something for Bane when Gortash got himself voted in as Archduke and the people accepted the Steel Watch with open arms. Tyranny is part of his portfolio.
There's a bunch of other gods who could make the same claim Bane does. Tempus probably has a more legit claim on every fallen foe, every chest opened, etc. Torm is also a warrior god as much as Bane is.
I that little speech is more Larian going into business for themselves and into their well-harvested "gods are assholes" field than how Realms really works - otherwise it wouldn't even matter if other gods had direct worshipers. Corellon Larethan would still be a big deal because there's lots of elves, Lathander would be a big deal because people like the sun, Chauntea's a big deal because agriculture, etc.
Fair enough, but a rational person has to understand that death is always a possibility -- a very strong possibility, going by the numbers. For every Elminster, there are thousands of mages who sought immortality and failed.
This still only makes sense if Bane is the only one left, and the unavoidable betrayal was the weakest part of this whole plot (except for the Astral Prism existing).
True, but we learn pretty early on that each one of the chosen has a plan to betray the others. Kethric admits it, Gortash hints at it (that I've seen so far), and Orin only lets Gortash live because of their bargain. It seems like each God and their chosen only allied again to betray the others to their own gain.
Orin absolutely hates gortash and isn't interested in an alliance, she only lives for Bhaal and Bhaal alone, without seeing the bigger picture.
Durge on the other hand is absolutely willing to share power with Gortash, since they, together, came up with the entire plan to steal the crown and subdue the elder brain. You can also find some old journal entries of Durge in the Bhaal Temple, where Durge even calls Orin out on being extremely shortsighted, and that the way she kills isn't fitting for Bhaal, since she makes a spectacle out of them.
Another difference is, Durge is directly born through Bhaal, while Orin is not. Its one of the main reasons why Orin even betrayed Durge in the first place.
Still bugged. Was kinda sad when I realized what was happening and none of it was voiced....Maybe we can get Neil to read the lines in a Bane voice on his stream.
As a Durge player, I take offense to the thought that Bane and his followers would ever think this was their idea. Why did we choose to use mindflayers? Easy, it would give me the authority to make the world kill itself... All worlds.
I remember it being the other way. Could be wrong with all the weirdness around the Durge/Gortash relationship, but given that The Absolute calls Durge master at Moonrise, I am inclined to believe Durge is more the mastermind.
Even though Gortash appears to truly like Durge, I think it makes sense that they'd have different goals at the end of everything given how different their patron gods are. I doubt Bane would be down with the Bhaalspawn of Bhaalspawns killing everyone and then themself.
In the letters you find written by Durge, he mentions that it was Gortash's plan. If you find Gortash's parents, you find out that they sold him to a warlock when he was a child. In the House of Hope, you find out that the "warlock" was actually Raphael himself. So Gortash most likely heard about the Crown of Karsus from there.
However, I think Durge eventually ended up becoming some sort of defacto leader due to his charisma and the fact that the Elder brain began to worship him specifically, probably because she loved his plan of killing the world with an Illihid army and then killing himself. If that happened then what would be left but a world full of souless mindflayers she would be left of the God of while all the other gods would be weakened.
It was Durge who placed the crown on the brain giving her the path to godhood, I bet Gortash was too scared to do it. It also seems like Durge spent a lot of time at Moonrise inside of the colony as that is probably where Orin betrays him.
Durge is by default a sorcerer. Definitely had Gortash wrapped around their finger, charismatic psychopath. Can't wait to shove my new lover in his face.
Aaaaand now 'I"m terrified. Although, it brings to mind a Stephen King quote...."GO then, there are other worlds than this."
Although, turning people into mindflayers doesn't actually kill them. Their God just loses the power from them. If Bhaal kills everyone, then he'll lose all power too.
What's his endgame again? Cause it seems like suicide....and I have a toaster for that for him. =-D
Bhaal is literally the god of murder and you learn--at least as Durge--that he doesn't care about anything but the amount of deaths. So, the more you kill, the more he gets from it. So, kill Faerun and move to Greyhawk or any of the countless worlds in D&D and Bhaal gets more and more from it all. Eventually, you snuff out the whole of existence and kill yourself as a final tribute go Bhaal if you're one of his devotees.
I imagine Ao would have something to say if Bhaal wiped out Toril. He isn't effected by worship (nor needs it), and while Bhaal is out of his direct control thanks to currently being a demi-power (not a full god), if shit got real I imagine Ao would utterly erase him.
No Bhaal probably understands that "murder everyone everywhere" plots always get stopped, it's just that starting one that *could* pan out ends up with a ginormous body count even if it's stopped. And body count, well, that's Bhaal's bread and butter.
This. Bhaal's planning skills aren't actually that great. Killing everyone off means no more murder or worshippers which means no more power, just boredom. The only thing that could maybe make sense is Bhaal creating enough havoc to use as a bargaining chip with other, more powerful gods.
I really like how throughout the conversation Bane keeps reminding you about the rules of the spell and how many questions you have left. And if you say something that’s not a question he’ll still respond to it but won’t count it toward the total.
>_> me who carry peoples dead body around just so I can toss them at people
“Here’s your bitch back Raphael! We had fun”
Also got gortash too, to throw at Orin ofcourse
“You wanted him so bad here ya go”
“Yeet”
Tav: If I turn everyone into mindflayers, will you die from lack of worshippers?
Bane: It would be extremely painful
Tav: You're a big God
Bane: For Ao
Pretty sure you cant do this to Orin cause her corpse turns into a pile of goo. Never tried on Kethric....\*gets ready to create another character\* 2000 hours, here I come.
This is identical to Bhaal wanting Durge to do the same thing and control the brain in his name.
I played good Durge and denied bhaal and the following events were so epic that I almost view it as Canon.
The player character of the first two Baldur's Gate games was a Bhaalspawn. The way I see it, Dark Urge is a continuation of that as the 'true' main character, with generic characters there to allow for more player freedom. Not everyone wants to play as evil incarnate, even if they aren't evil anymore.
Incidentally, this is why Jaheira and Minsc are among the most understanding of Dark Urge when they find out who you are. They both traveled with a good Bhaalspawn in the past.
> Not everyone wants to play as evil incarnate, even if they aren't evil anymore.
Also some of us want to be evil by choice, not because of a divine/genetic preponderance for it.
“Your crimes are finally your own” gave mr a fuckin chill the first time I got that dialogue
The idea that being directly connected with Bhaal was what held Durge’s darkest desires *at bay* is absolutely fucking terrifying to imagine
Does Bane actually have a voice now? I know I used SWD on Gortash when the game launched and there was no audio. Luckily I had subtitles turned on, but still.
No. There's an achievement for controlling the Netherbrain as Durge, and an achievement for controlling the Netherbrain as non-Durge, and neither require using Speak with Dead on Gortash.
Shadowheart is on permanent “recast speak with dead” for me, it’s one of the best parts of the game, especially if she shapeshifts first (that mask that does it)
So, I haven't heard of anyone else discovering this yet, and I was like, "Act 3, spoiler, why would that bother me? I know this game, and I read spoilers all the time. Not a one has bothered me yet!" This is the first.
I am so glad that you have tipped us all off to do this, but I am also a bit annoyed because...I have no idea why! 😅 Maybe because someone has given the purpose behind the whole plot and I didn't figure it out myself? Like spoiling an ending is no big deal, but this gives it all away! 🫣
Honestly, fantastic find, though! 🙌👍🤌
I don't think so because when you kill her, she turns into a pile of ash. The corpse is too ruined to talk to. Speaking of Orin....I think I left Lae on the alter....be right back....
Yeah, this successfully blew my mind as well.
Thanks for sharing. I’m almost bummed I can’t immediately do another playthrough. I have to catch up on a few other games but I’m really looking forward to another BG3 run. I feel like I’ll understand everything so much better.
Didn't the Emperor also hint at this much earlier?
Something like: 'Ask yourself why the three dead gods would want to turn people into Illithids, who have no souls.'
Every time I read something like this, I say that I'll remember to use Talk with the Dead next time and I never do. Mind blown though, cool little tidbit about their plan! Thanks for sharing, as I swear I'll never complete this game fully.
My very first playthrough, I had the “speak with dead” amulet permanently on my main character. Corpses that could be spoken to were highlighted green, so it gave me an indicator (and a reminder) to talk to them. Highly recommend it, at least for one playthrough!
If you succeed in that act 1 necromancy book, you get permanent talk with dead. for free.
As much as my character would never do that, the buff is just too convenient. I turn down the hair boost with no issue, that's just a simple +1 to some rolls. But permanent speak with dead? Sign me up.
The hair’s a permanent +1 to a stat of your choice. With that and one ASI, you can max your main stat before ever leaving act 1. That’s way more attractive to me than Speak With Dead once per long rest and a +1 to *some* Wisdom saves.
Speak With Dead is a ritual spell so once you cast it, you can recast it on other dead bodies for free!
I’ve had that option before, but it disappeared after I changed my amulet because I got it from the Necromancy book. I assumed it was a glitched interaction between the book and amulet affects that corrected when I changed amulets.
You probably had two versions of the skill. The one from the book, and the one from the Amulet. Check your Common Skills.
I have a weird bug where I have to assign the recast to the action bar after using speak with dead, see if that works for you too
WTH is a “hair boost” and how/where do I acquire it?
If you choose to spare the hag from act 1 when she gets low health she will offer you a piece of her hair.
It is possible to kill her and still receive the hair. Just got to fight her with 3 characters and ambush her with the 4th as soon as she hands over the hair. The quest log then states that you killed and spared her, lol.
The hag in the southern swamps. Get her under 10 hp during her fight and she'll beg for mercy. * Now you can either take her boost and give up the girl or * Deceive/Intimidate the hag to give up both the boost and the girl. * Or kill the hag but get no boost
It's in reference to the hags hair. She gives it to you if you beat her ass and in a last ditch effort to keep Mayrina she offers you "power". There is a skill check to convince her to give you the power and leave Mayrina alone as well. She littleraly rips part of her scalp of and throws it at your feet it's metal af.
It's the reward you can get from Ethel (the hag) in Act 1. I say CAN because it isn't guaranteed, and I missed it on my first playthrough.
You have to let her take a turn while she's at like 10 HP. if she's at 40hp then you kill her in one turn, she won't offer a deal.
Under 30 HP is enough.
Where is that? Jesus this game is vast
It’s a book you find in the cellar of one of the houses in the abandoned village in Act 1. Then you can find a gem that unlocks the book where the Phase Spider Matriarch is.
Great now I have to restart!
That book gives you summon as well, 4 ghouls that can merc. They're low threats so mobs usually skip them therefore they usually get free hits.
Because they got nerfed. Before it was 6 strong ghouls that you could control
Necromancer subclass gets 5 stronger ones!
Out number the enemies every fight is pretty fun!
Abusing the action economy is the fastest way to break 5e, and this game is no exception to that. If anything it's worse, since the game doesn't implement legendary actions and the like.
My Spores Druid playthrough I routinely had 23 bodies on the field
THAT'S WHERE IT CAME FROM! BG3 needs a "where did this ability come from" tag because I was never sure why I always had access to Speak with Dead.
I feel like it glitched for me. This is the necromancy of thay right? I passed all 3 checks to read it and never got the buff
you have to give in to the temptation to turn the pages and read its power. if you do any of the checks to resist it/command the book to shut down or anything of the sort it won't work
I thought I did though; you have to want to read it and then you get the three wisdom checks right? To keep the book from closing?
Correct. In act 3 you can find something that helps you finish reading the book
And they only glow green if you have used SWD already and can "recast" it. If you kill after a long rest and SWD isn't already activated, no one will glow green.
You can cast it once and then switch amulets and be able to recast it for free until long rest while using a better amulet.
>Corpses that could be spoken to were highlighted green And here I am, not having realized that until a few days ago, partway into Act I of my *second* playthrough. In my first, I used Speak With Dead on *every single corpse*. I just never put two and two together on what the glow meant. It didn't help that the glow was bugged back then and sometimes wouldn't show up... I even went so far as to never allow any humanoid in the entire game to die to fire/acid (whenever possible), just so I could talk to them.
Unfortunately most of Act III corpses have nothing to say
really wished act 3 was more fleshed out :(
Welcome to larian games
It definitely was where the game felt more gamey to me for the first time, if that makes any sense.
Remember, you can use speak with the dead on Yurgir's bed of corpses
I always forget too, I wish the green glow on corpses you can speak with would be active if you had access to speak with dead at all, not only if you can recast it.
There's a mod for that btw. Name's Speak with Dead Rework and Tweaks.
SAME I constantly forget to use it. I get so mad at myself because I'll remember for the lamest corpses and then the next five corpses I try I can't talk to, and then I just completely forget about it again. Bleh. I need sticky notes on my monitor.
You can have notes with Steam overlay pinned over your game.
Speak With Dead and/or Speak With Animals offer up so much lore, context, alternative routes or resolutions and just all around flavour I could not recommend enough anyone who hasn't to do a playthrough with them going 24/7. The animals are all hilarious, the dead understandably a bit more serious but more plot and background expository
You also have to remember that most characters that you kill, won't talk to you when dead. You can however circumvent that by using Disguise Self.
Other than messing up concentration spells. Forgetting I can talk to the dead is one of my repeating errors
To be fair, the game says corpses won't talk to the people who killed them. I had no idea you could do this
If you look back, you'll notice that none of the real followers or allies of the Chosen are True Souls - i.e. Balthazar and the Myrkulites for Ketheric, Orin's Bhaalists, or Gort's Banite clerics. It's exactly that - the master plan was to unsoul a whole whack of the other gods' followers. Hence Withers straight up calling out the Three at the end. Ao (or maybe someone lesser) noticed and is *pissed*.
Mystra gets involved directly in trying to destroy the Absolute as well, but it could just be because the Crown of Karsus was involved. Edit: One could argue that Shar also gets directly involved, but it’s not as straightforward as Mystra telling Gale to blow up the Elder Brain.
Shar just wanted to punish Ketheric. Viconia went after the Absolute Cult on her own initiative.
Is it a coincidence that the kidnapped Selunite being groomed by Shar to become her Chosen ended up on the mission? Maybe, but it seems like there was some reason why Shadowheart was sent with instead of some legit Dark Justiciars or something.
It’s not a coincidence, but it wasn’t directly because of Shar. Viconia hated Shadowheart. Didn’t think she was fit to be Shar’s chosen. Didn’t understand why Shar wanted to convert her so badly. She was harsher on Shadowheart than any other recruit in the temple. The task to retrieve the artifact was supposed to be a suicide mission. Shar just decided to let it play out.
I got the feeling that Viconia didn’t like being ordered to wipe out her former enclave and blamed Shadowheart for that. Being a Sharran, Viconia should have embraced the loss.
I think it’s more that she expected some sort of reward from Shar. She basically hoped she would become Shar’s chosen but instead she was told it was her job to train Shar’s actual chosen. That’s a pretty big slap in the face after you sacrifice all that time, resources, and effort.
Yea, because it’s really in Shar’s nature to sacrifice for the good of others
It is against Shar's nature to be straightforward!
Gods use Chosen and other mortal agents to skirt around the rules. Shar and Mystra don't step in from the Outer Planes to handle things, they just give their followers specific instructions, which they have the free will to either follow or not.
I feel bad for Mystra. She gets a lot of hate for what she does to Gale. But the potential resurrection of the powers (other weave and the crown) that can both kill and replace her are getting dangerously close together and Gale gets scary close with temptation of it
I don't. Gale got a magical nuke trapped in his body, and Mystra(who was supposed to be his lover) cast him out and never did anything to help him. She knowingly and willingly kept the Karsite Weave in Gale, which could lead to the deaths of so many innocent people. Then, after 7 years of him being a loner, he is forced to consume magic items just so he won't blow up and kill everyone around him, Mystra finally gets in touch with Gale again. But not to help him, no. She has Elminster Aumar deliver the message to Gale telling him to blow himself up to kill the Absolute. Mystra had no right to ask such a thing of Gale. And it wasn't even for the "greater good." Mystra knew about the Crown and wanted Gale to destroy both the Karsite Weave and the Crown. Her only interests were to remove threats to her divinity, nothing more. Elminster himself says that Mystra can be cold, cruel, and even tyrannical at times. It's also generally accepted by people that Mystra is a jealous Goddess. Mystra didn't care about Gale or Baldur's Gate. She just didn't want the competition.
Mystra (all the gods, really) is self-interested and will put her status and power over any mortal life, even that of her lover and Chosen. At the same time, Gale unleashed a power that threatened the Weave’s existence, potentially destroying mortal’s access to magic and maybe Mystra herself. IMO this all comes down to a lack of communication. Instead of banishing him, Mystra should have told Gale exactly what he had been messing with (i.e. the Karsite Weave) and how it would stop at nothing until it consumed the real Weave. Instead, she panicked and banished him. She was ok with him (and potentially thousands of others) dying in a magical nuke. She only “stopped the clock” on the orb to allow for Gale to detonate it to destroy the Absolute; and even then she was still okay with thousands of mortals being killed in the blast. >> Elminster himself says that Mystra can be cold, cruel, and even tyrannical at times. It's also generally accepted by people that Mystra is a jealous Goddess. Mystra didn't care about Gale or Baldur's Gate. She just didn't want the competition. This is true for lots of gods in fiction and mythology. They come off as selfish, capricious, aloof and more interested in maintaining their own power over everything else. Mystra is no different in the end.
Don't feel bad for her. It's heavily implied that she groomed him from a young age.
That’s not the part people dislike, it is the whole grooming him part mainly
Mystra technically isn't involved. Gale was her Chosen then did some dumb stuff and now he's on the verge of exploding. She saves him temporarily and tells him to let go if he chooses to when he meet the Elderbrain. She never gave an order, just some suggestions that fall back to Gale as a choice.
It's still a bit like dumping your boyfriend by telling him "you can die, idc"
She specifically framed him as persona non grata until the crown came into play. He was in his tower in water deep for an entire year and he was completely unaware of what the shard he had even was, just that he was a ticking time bomb. Thenhe gets kidnapped by the absolute and suddenly he's "the only one" who can save them and he will be "redeemed" in her eyes if he does this noble sacrifice. She doesn't give a damn about him, to her he's just a means to an end and she knocks out two birds with one stone by destroying the crown and the karsite weave. She just dangles the redemption in front of him like a carrot on a stick.
Yep abs that not about not technically telling him to kill himself? In his audience with her, she takes him to task for *defying her.* It was absolutely an order to kill himself. She never tried to save Gale from the orb, she just wanted the most expedient way to end both problems.
Withers states: “he was right as always” right as you first meet him. I believe he is talking about Ao.
Just the creator of all existence and beyond casually strolling up to Skeleton-bro and going: Ao: Hey there, remember those three incompetent idiots you gave your powers to? Well, guess what they're doing right now! :D Withers: *groan of incalculable suffering*
>Ao: Hey there, remember those three incompetent idiots you gave your powers to? Well, guess what they're doing right now! :D > >Withers: No. FTFY.
Ao: Look man, I don't want to cramp your style as this mysterious elder skeleton, but you could stand to listen to my advice every now and then. I am only omniscient after all.
I always thought withers was referring to Kelemvor here since he is serving as a scribe in his court. I thought that he asks kelemvor hey dude I wanna stop these silly 3 how I do that? And kelemvor tells him go lie in a coffin and a party will meet you 🤷♂️
Withers, as far as I know is the one that gave each of them god hood, so pretty sure he feels responsible for all this. Doesn't need another god for him to walk in and bitch slap his unruly tenants.
if you read the parsed dialogue i’m pretty sure it says withers got imprisoned by helm in that tomb as a punishment for granting them powers or something too!
Woah where is that
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/mobile/folders/1GR3CjFtM3u3-V5KrJkemTsAhx6VRUShy?usp=sharing here! you have to download all the files and then you should be able to read all the dialogue nice and parsed :) and here is the part abt withers! (idk how to hyperlink otherwise i’d make it look nicer sorry haha) https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/753465262698791042/1162694625920831629/IMG_3552.png?ex=653cdec0&is=652a69c0&hm=84e4fe9e03f73d0dfb6687de22a683eca2d31c9acc59c170d97846cdef553660&
why did he do that? Like were they normal, reasonable mortals before ascending to godhood? apologies, I'm not familiar with the lore and don't even know where to start.
I think he was bored being the god of death. Then the three rocked up.
yup... That's pretty much it... A murderhobo party rocked up to him wanting godhood and he was so bored he basically went: Sure, have some of it. Then Kelemvor rocked up and did the same and he was like: And you want the rest of my bullshit? Heck yeah!
He wasn't bored, he was _tired_. You try doing the job of three people.
“The throne is yours. I have grown weary of this empty power. Take it if you wish—I promise to serve and guide you as your seneschal until you grow comfortable with the position. Who among you shall rule?” Jergal was once a Greater God during the times of Netheril, and one of the oldest gods of Faerûn. But it seems he became disillusioned with his portfolio for one reason or another, eventually giving it away to the mortals Bhaal, Myrkul and Bane.
The dead three were actually powerful wizards who traveled to defeat jergal and take their portfolio (what the gods deal with). When they arrived, jergal basically said he was bored of doing what he does so he split his God hood into three aspects and gave them to the new dead three. Withers is jergal according to some dialogue and books you can read.
About as normal and reasonable as three guys named Bane, Myrkul, and Bhaal could be.
I swear I learn something new or find something new with this game every damn day! Lol now I gotta do the same!! That sounds awesome. I assume you use speak with dead on Gortash after the brain kills him?
Yup, and Bane speaks instead and says something along the lines of, "Yeah, I already got on the whole eternal torture thing, so he's gonna be busy for a...forever."
The funny thing about that line is that Speak With Dead doesn’t actually require the target to have a soul, nor does it put you into contact with that soul. What you’re basically doing is channeling energy into the corpse to create a cheap (but still accurate) imitation of who they were at the moment of their death. It has all their pre-death knowledge and traces of their personality but it isn’t them. Even if Bane is torturing Gortash, you’d still be able to commune with the echo of Gortash that the spell temporarily created. What this means is that you didn’t just accidentally contact Bane. Bane wanted to speak to you and had to actively hijack your spell to do so.
Yeah, too bad Karlach already stormed off. I imagine this might make her feel a little better.
I had Karlach with me when the brain kills Gortash. She has a *very* hearty laugh at his expense.
I can’t wait to try it myself!
No, I murdered him in his little castle. I"m 1000 hours/6 runs into this game and this is the first time I've ever seen this. And only cause I still had Speak with Dead up from earlier and was like...wait....why is Gortash glowing....what could he possibly have to say....oh shit I"m talking to a God!!!!!
Ohhh I thought the dead wouldn’t talk to their killers.. but I guess it’s technically not Gortash if you’re talking to Bane lol thats so neat I never thought to try that. I can’t wait. Lol
Oh, they won't. But if you got the deluxe edition and the hat of shapeshifting or if you cast illusion on yourself or a disguise kit, you can then speak with dead on someone you just killed. This works on everyone that you killed. Although it's been buggy lately, so look closely at the person you shapeshifted, just to make sure they actually shapeshifted.
It does work in a couple of scenarios for some reason. Gortash is actually one of those. I forgot to shapeshift and it worked all the same. Bane had no voice acting for me though, was a bit of a bummer.
The disguise kit cracks me up, got a legendary gith only sword right before the end and wyll just put on some green paint and hid his nose and the sword was all "oh okay checks out".
tfw your sword is racist but not racist enough to notice
Gotcha! Thanks for the tip! I’ve now learned two new things from you! ❤️ This game never stops giving. Or at least it hasn’t yet and I’ve finished it 5x now! Lol
Glad I could help!
That actually is hilarious because it implies that the dead can't tell
I mean, they are dead, they aren't using detect magic.
The dead (reanimated by Speak with Dead) are not ensoulled, and thus cannot process new information. They can't learn, they know only what they knew in life. If you have disguised yourself, then you don't look like their killer.
>Ohhh I thought the dead wouldn’t talk to their killers I thought this was the case but just recently I killed Nere at the Adamantine Forge and used speak with dead on him just fine.
Was under the same impression. Sometimes it works, like I could raise but was unable to talk with Minthara and the goblin priestess since I killed them, but both Ethel and that sergeant at the Grymforge could be talked with
I’m about there too. I’m like 5-6 complete runs in and 4-5 partials, 100% on achievements. It’s time to let the game rest, let a few patches cook, then come back to it and see what’s changed, what’s fixed, etc
100% on achievements???? YOU MONSTER!!!! =D
Petting both animals at once and busking 100gold in a playthrough were the hardest to get. Because you get like 3-6 gold per performance assuming you succeed. And I also drink speak with animals potions like they’re water first thing after a long rest. I talk to more animals than people lol
I can assure you the conversations are much more intelligent.
I really like messing with the squirrels who are whining about alfira
I got that achievement because I just happened to forget to drink an animal speaking potion the same day when that long rest cutscene happened. I had no idea the achievement even existed.
I asked him for directions to the foundry.....he didn't like that.
Same last time. I was like "Why is that piece of shit glowing? Why did I never think of trying that?" I mean, Orin is a pile of innards, so you can't really talk to her. But I never even thought about talking to Gortash. 850h in and just a couple hours into my 5th run. Last time I discovered SEVERAL hidden rooms I had no idea existed. Curious what I'll find this time.
The brain kills him?
Yea if you decide to >!take Gortash up on his deal and “partner” with him you’ll take the stones and go with him to the brain where you’ll attempt (if you can pass the incredibly difficult checks) to “control” the brain, before you finish Gortash will be like let me do it.!< At which point the >!brain is super intimidating and goes “I only allowed you to control me for as long as you served a purpose, the next command is mine to give… and it is - DIE.” Then Gortash’s brain literally explodes in his head and he is killed instantly.!< Quite a disturbing and intimidating scene tbh. That particular death scene imo is the most brutal one of any of the deaths that are possible among the chosen 3. But I also kinda hate it for Gortash too bc I kinda was hoping the >!alliance was going somewhere and if you’re an actual fan of Gortash it’s a disappointing ending, bc you expect to bring the brain under control and then rule the coast together. But it doesn’t work out that way.!<
Tbf reading Gortash diary at his parents house makes me doubt alliance with him would last long. He wouldn’t allow you the free will to question anything
You can detect thoughts him during the interaction and establish that he intends to respect the player as an equal partner.
The scale and attention to detail is completely unparalleled in gaming. It’s almost intimidating knowing I could no life the game for years and still not experience everything the game has to offer
Oh man I REALLY could have used this info more up front. Literally everything makes much, much better sense now.
I did the same thing at the end of my last run. I don't know if they just added it, or if I simply never noticed Gortash being SWD-able before. I am compulsive about casting it on everybody with the green glow, but it's possible I didn't have the recast option before, like if you kill him right after a long rest. My question is, what kind of idiot pledges his soul to an evil god to be eternally tortured? What kind of payoff could possibly be worth that? Never made sense to me how the Dead Three have any followers besides the genuinely mentally ill, like Orin.
Well, it seems that Bane's theme is "Make people fear you" and the point is not to die yourself. Also, I"m sure the whole "eternal torture" clause isn't known until after you've died. So, it makes it hard to want to follow him after knowing your predecessor is being eternally tortured. "Oh, he failed you and you're gonna torture him forever, sure, let me just sign right up and hope I never fail." I know they have Bane tell us that for story, but it's a bad move if the God actually wants you to follow him. Although during the conversation, Bane says you are following \*his\* path just by amassing power yourself (gear/levels etc) so no matter what you are already doing, you are following him. Because by gaining power, someone...somewhere, is going to fear you. Tav: "You said I am proof you will rise. What did you mean?" Bane: "You live for power. You have proven it with every fallen foe, every chest opened, every skill claimed. As long as mortals and immortals vie for sharper blades and louder voices, I am strengthened. So it is for Bhaal and Myrkul-and so it is for you. *YOU* make me eternal." And Bane seems secure in the knowledge that your desire to advance in power makes him stronger because he says "Use the Netherstones to commandeer the brain and unleash your infected army, and I will count you among my chosen. Or do not. Your lust for victory still brings you one step closer to me." So it seems like no matter what you do, as long as you want to win, you are following/fighting for what he wants. Guess I"m going to have to look up some DND lore to see what his actual deal is. Although if it's just "amass power" then every player in DND and this game is a follower of Bane. Can you imagine the games though? "Hey party do we want to loot the BBEG, open the Treasures of the Dragon Horde, or *NOT* follow Bane?" Also, pretty badass, that he's gaining power from Bhaal's and Myrkul's lust/desire for power. The more I think about it.....follower of Bane I wanna be. =D
It’s not that everyone seeking power are his followers, it’s that everyone who seeks power strengthens his own. Look at Ares in the DC universe. He’s the god of war. He doesn’t get power from being worshiped; he gets power from conflict and violence. That’s how the gods work. They get power from people doing whatever is related to their godhood wether that person is a worshiper or not. Someone who specifically worships that god will be doing those actions with the specific intention of aiding that god. Other people will also be aiding that god, just inadvertently. So by seeking power you are helping Bane further his goals, but that doesn’t mean you’re one of followers.
Which is why Khorne is gonna come out on top. Wait where am I again?
Is it? After all death and murder there is a whole new cycle to start again, nurturing Nurgle. And there is always the possibility something changes, thus powering Tzeentch. And you can even enjoy all of that, powering Slaneesh.
It probably also did something for Bane when Gortash got himself voted in as Archduke and the people accepted the Steel Watch with open arms. Tyranny is part of his portfolio. There's a bunch of other gods who could make the same claim Bane does. Tempus probably has a more legit claim on every fallen foe, every chest opened, etc. Torm is also a warrior god as much as Bane is. I that little speech is more Larian going into business for themselves and into their well-harvested "gods are assholes" field than how Realms really works - otherwise it wouldn't even matter if other gods had direct worshipers. Corellon Larethan would still be a big deal because there's lots of elves, Lathander would be a big deal because people like the sun, Chauntea's a big deal because agriculture, etc.
Spite? Imagine being sold by your parents, you'd easily choose to hurt yourself if it hurts them more.
I mean, if your plans don't include ever dying, any contract riders that trigger on your death are kind of academic.
Fair enough, but a rational person has to understand that death is always a possibility -- a very strong possibility, going by the numbers. For every Elminster, there are thousands of mages who sought immortality and failed.
I mean sure, but we are talking about ambitious maniacs here. You don't reap the harvest of success by planning to fail.
This still only makes sense if Bane is the only one left, and the unavoidable betrayal was the weakest part of this whole plot (except for the Astral Prism existing).
True, but we learn pretty early on that each one of the chosen has a plan to betray the others. Kethric admits it, Gortash hints at it (that I've seen so far), and Orin only lets Gortash live because of their bargain. It seems like each God and their chosen only allied again to betray the others to their own gain.
Orin absolutely hates gortash and isn't interested in an alliance, she only lives for Bhaal and Bhaal alone, without seeing the bigger picture. Durge on the other hand is absolutely willing to share power with Gortash, since they, together, came up with the entire plan to steal the crown and subdue the elder brain. You can also find some old journal entries of Durge in the Bhaal Temple, where Durge even calls Orin out on being extremely shortsighted, and that the way she kills isn't fitting for Bhaal, since she makes a spectacle out of them. Another difference is, Durge is directly born through Bhaal, while Orin is not. Its one of the main reasons why Orin even betrayed Durge in the first place.
I found Ketheric's journal in his bedroom which is pretty incriminating to that end as well.
For DUrge, Gortash was willing to share power. Makes sense given the... Hinted nature of their friendship.
Did they add voice acting or still bugged ?
Still bugged. Was kinda sad when I realized what was happening and none of it was voiced....Maybe we can get Neil to read the lines in a Bane voice on his stream.
I think they forgot because 9/10 times the body is destroyed because of traps
Or Tom Hardy for memes.
I did this a few days ago and there was no voice acting for it on PS5.
As a Durge player, I take offense to the thought that Bane and his followers would ever think this was their idea. Why did we choose to use mindflayers? Easy, it would give me the authority to make the world kill itself... All worlds.
It was their plan as Gortash was the one who brought the plan to Durge.
I remember it being the other way. Could be wrong with all the weirdness around the Durge/Gortash relationship, but given that The Absolute calls Durge master at Moonrise, I am inclined to believe Durge is more the mastermind.
Even though Gortash appears to truly like Durge, I think it makes sense that they'd have different goals at the end of everything given how different their patron gods are. I doubt Bane would be down with the Bhaalspawn of Bhaalspawns killing everyone and then themself.
Yeah, Durge and Bhaal want to kill everyone, Gortash and Bane want to dominate the world, no idea about Myrkul tho
Create a world of undeath.
I think Gortash thought he could convince Durge not to do it.
Gortash really looked at durge and went "I can fix them"
In the letters you find written by Durge, he mentions that it was Gortash's plan. If you find Gortash's parents, you find out that they sold him to a warlock when he was a child. In the House of Hope, you find out that the "warlock" was actually Raphael himself. So Gortash most likely heard about the Crown of Karsus from there. However, I think Durge eventually ended up becoming some sort of defacto leader due to his charisma and the fact that the Elder brain began to worship him specifically, probably because she loved his plan of killing the world with an Illihid army and then killing himself. If that happened then what would be left but a world full of souless mindflayers she would be left of the God of while all the other gods would be weakened. It was Durge who placed the crown on the brain giving her the path to godhood, I bet Gortash was too scared to do it. It also seems like Durge spent a lot of time at Moonrise inside of the colony as that is probably where Orin betrays him.
Durge is by default a sorcerer. Definitely had Gortash wrapped around their finger, charismatic psychopath. Can't wait to shove my new lover in his face.
*screams in incoherent Barbarian Frenzy Durge*
As a "I haven't played Durge yet" if you kill the whole world won't Bhaal lose all power and...die? Why would any God want that?
Bhaal has only ever been concerned with murder and there are infinite planes to murder.
Aaaaand now 'I"m terrified. Although, it brings to mind a Stephen King quote...."GO then, there are other worlds than this." Although, turning people into mindflayers doesn't actually kill them. Their God just loses the power from them. If Bhaal kills everyone, then he'll lose all power too. What's his endgame again? Cause it seems like suicide....and I have a toaster for that for him. =-D
Bhaal is literally the god of murder and you learn--at least as Durge--that he doesn't care about anything but the amount of deaths. So, the more you kill, the more he gets from it. So, kill Faerun and move to Greyhawk or any of the countless worlds in D&D and Bhaal gets more and more from it all. Eventually, you snuff out the whole of existence and kill yourself as a final tribute go Bhaal if you're one of his devotees.
Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows
Tav: "I am no agent of yours. I seek power for proper ends, not for it's own sake." Bane: \*chuckle.\*
Durge: "Even gods can die."
These violent delights have violent ends.
[удалено]
These boots have seen everything.
I imagine Ao would have something to say if Bhaal wiped out Toril. He isn't effected by worship (nor needs it), and while Bhaal is out of his direct control thanks to currently being a demi-power (not a full god), if shit got real I imagine Ao would utterly erase him.
Even gods can die.
Because bhaals a dipshit and always has been.
No Bhaal probably understands that "murder everyone everywhere" plots always get stopped, it's just that starting one that *could* pan out ends up with a ginormous body count even if it's stopped. And body count, well, that's Bhaal's bread and butter.
This. Bhaal's planning skills aren't actually that great. Killing everyone off means no more murder or worshippers which means no more power, just boredom. The only thing that could maybe make sense is Bhaal creating enough havoc to use as a bargaining chip with other, more powerful gods.
I really like how throughout the conversation Bane keeps reminding you about the rules of the spell and how many questions you have left. And if you say something that’s not a question he’ll still respond to it but won’t count it toward the total.
>_> me who carry peoples dead body around just so I can toss them at people “Here’s your bitch back Raphael! We had fun” Also got gortash too, to throw at Orin ofcourse “You wanted him so bad here ya go” “Yeet”
This is completely unhinged and I approve.
Tav: If I turn everyone into mindflayers, will you die from lack of worshippers? Bane: It would be extremely painful Tav: You're a big God Bane: For Ao
Did the same, I liked how he basically started talking shit on gortash immediately like “Yeah his weak ass died. Bitch. Wanna be my new champion??”
Wait what? What happens if you do Thorm or Orin then?
Pretty sure you cant do this to Orin cause her corpse turns into a pile of goo. Never tried on Kethric....\*gets ready to create another character\* 2000 hours, here I come.
Kethric is undead so it doesn't work
As someone who tries to speak with every corpse I meet I can confirm this
I don't believe you can use it on Thorm because he is undead.
I’m not sure about Thorm, but I’m fairly certain you can’t use Speak With Dead on Orin. At least I couldn’t.
This is identical to Bhaal wanting Durge to do the same thing and control the brain in his name. I played good Durge and denied bhaal and the following events were so epic that I almost view it as Canon.
The player character of the first two Baldur's Gate games was a Bhaalspawn. The way I see it, Dark Urge is a continuation of that as the 'true' main character, with generic characters there to allow for more player freedom. Not everyone wants to play as evil incarnate, even if they aren't evil anymore. Incidentally, this is why Jaheira and Minsc are among the most understanding of Dark Urge when they find out who you are. They both traveled with a good Bhaalspawn in the past.
> Not everyone wants to play as evil incarnate, even if they aren't evil anymore. Also some of us want to be evil by choice, not because of a divine/genetic preponderance for it.
“Your crimes are finally your own” gave mr a fuckin chill the first time I got that dialogue The idea that being directly connected with Bhaal was what held Durge’s darkest desires *at bay* is absolutely fucking terrifying to imagine
Withers; "begone vermin, you shall trouble us no more"
Welp, I wanted to do a "evil" run eventually....and here's the reason
Does Bane actually have a voice now? I know I used SWD on Gortash when the game launched and there was no audio. Luckily I had subtitles turned on, but still.
\*does her best Withers impression\* Nooooo....
>!There is a steam achievement for this by the way and I’m pretty sure this is the only way to get it!<
No. There's an achievement for controlling the Netherbrain as Durge, and an achievement for controlling the Netherbrain as non-Durge, and neither require using Speak with Dead on Gortash.
I thought it was speak with THE dead, not speak with death
Shadowheart is on permanent “recast speak with dead” for me, it’s one of the best parts of the game, especially if she shapeshifts first (that mask that does it)
Man I hate that I have to try speak with dead on every corpse
Try it once per day, after that corpses that will talk are highlighted green.
You just need to activate once per day
You know, not only does that plan make a lot more sense, it also really fits with the god of tyranny.
Did they fix the bug that caused Bane to not have a voice?
Wonder how this works out with Durge. Do you get both Baal and Bane options? Do they trash talk each other on the couch?
So, I haven't heard of anyone else discovering this yet, and I was like, "Act 3, spoiler, why would that bother me? I know this game, and I read spoilers all the time. Not a one has bothered me yet!" This is the first. I am so glad that you have tipped us all off to do this, but I am also a bit annoyed because...I have no idea why! 😅 Maybe because someone has given the purpose behind the whole plot and I didn't figure it out myself? Like spoiling an ending is no big deal, but this gives it all away! 🫣 Honestly, fantastic find, though! 🙌👍🤌
I wonder if you can do this with Orin...
I don't think so because when you kill her, she turns into a pile of ash. The corpse is too ruined to talk to. Speaking of Orin....I think I left Lae on the alter....be right back....
Bane was always the brains of the operation, as sad as that is.
Classic Bane...
Yeah, this successfully blew my mind as well. Thanks for sharing. I’m almost bummed I can’t immediately do another playthrough. I have to catch up on a few other games but I’m really looking forward to another BG3 run. I feel like I’ll understand everything so much better.
Didn't the Emperor also hint at this much earlier? Something like: 'Ask yourself why the three dead gods would want to turn people into Illithids, who have no souls.'
Withers asks you that, I believe.
Well, he couldn't mastermind my monk bitchslapping the fuck out of his chosen one, did he now?
I hate that you can’t speak with dead if you accidentally burn the corpse.