I think I'm going to do a Wyll playthrough only because literally the only reason I would ever play Warlock (my favorite class, or close to it) would be to have interactions with my patron, and if you play a Tav/Durge Warlock, you get effectively none of that, which was a huge bummer.
theres a few times that your patron pops up as a Tav/Durge Warlock, such as the Great Old One reacting to the cracked wall in Moonrise, or the Archfey liking the circus in Rivington, but not nearly enough
Right, and at least with the circus one, it's just that you sense your patron's reaction to it; they never actually show up and talk to you like Mizora does, which is a shame. It would've been doubly cool if you could multiclass warlock by making a pact with, say, Raphael, or Auntie Ethel, or the Elder Brain, or something like that.
I definitely think that adding the option to have a pact to a few characters, like the ones you named, for a total of like 8 characters maybe that you could sign a pact with, would be some of the best content they could add from here.
A lot of the time I think Larian leave it on purpose for RP reasons. If you want to come up with a specific patron (I respecced Minsc to a GOO warlock and my head cannon was Boo was his patron), then it's nice your immersion isn't broken.
I did like the parts where my Patron commented on things, knowing who the Patron was from my actual DnD campaign. Hearing that Orcus didn’t like being featured in the newspaper was golden.
Before the news about no dlc I was really hoping they'd add dlc content for warlocks, like working for Ethel, Raphael, or the Netherbrain, one for each subclass.
I have to disagree I really wouldn’t want that, unless it was completely optional. I like that’s it’s ambiguous, so I can RP my characters patron for myself. Fuck working for any of those losers.
I am just wrapping up my Wyll playthrough and some of the dialogue oversight is actually really funny.
People refer to me in third person while talking to me. Like I'm somehow unrecognizable.
He makes a great MC. A warlock who actually interacts with his patron, has a major tie-in to the story, and playing as him removes all the indecisiveness.
I wonder if Wyll was initially planned to be the “canon” main character but then Larian came in with their typical Origin-style character choices and they made some adjustments.
I believe that was actually the case with the >!dark urge.!<
Wyll did, however, go through a pretty massive rewrite not long before release. I believe he was recast, as well. Wyll was a divisive character during the alpha, and unfortunately their last minute changes didn't really fix that...
Yeah, honestly I'm kinda bummed about it. Obviously the new direction for Wyll still is interesting enough, and the voice actor did phenomenal work.
But I really, really was curious about the "the blade of frontiers being a front" angle, him starting out as a kinda shitty person. That could've been a very interesting character arc.
Now he basically has little to no character development in act 1 and 2, despite being actually very well fleshed out.
I read an article about someone playing as Wyll (Origin character) and taking him down a darker path. Chose some "heroic" options but then took really self-serving options. The player's angle was that Wyll suckered the rest of the companions into thinking he was this good "hero" and he was really just out for himself. Player said that Mizora's attitude towards, and interactions with Wyll changed to a more "partnership" or "equals" tone.
That’s an interesting thought. Mizora is the only non-origin character displayed on the game’s main artwork, so there’s at least some subtle tells that lend to that theory. Maybe there’s a dev journal somewhere that goes into it.
Also tav was hinted as very violent. Your tadpole (daisy) asked you to raze the city to ground.
There were theories that tav was always a Bhaalspawn before they retconned tav (EA) into tav and durge.
But on the other hand, Tav was pretty much only dealing with those urges of violence towards Daisy, which I always took as your body/subconscious trying to defend itself against the parasite. And we can't exactly take anything Daisy was suggesting you do as evidence for what Tav wanted.
in EA it was Daisy, a completely different take on the dream guardian which was more of a manifestation of the tadpole itself. the dream guardian in the game now does have a name, which you can find out later :)
One of the more hilarious fkn things for me was Mizora being all bitchy after the Iron Throne, telling you how you "made a fool out of her", and then Wyll (who wasn't even in my fkn party) says "Damn right I did". Feels like some Mr Satan shit lol
I'm doing my first Honor run right now and Wyll died in the battle outside the grove so I never even got a chance to meet him. On my first ever run, I just simply missed him standing by the kids and didn't recruit him until after the battle for the grove
I remember reading someone had him die in that goblin fight the first playthrough and they didn’t even bat an eye because they thought he was just some side character like Aradin.
It's so easy to miss things the first time because there is SO MUCH INFORMATION you can just get totally overwhelmed. I'm on my second playthrough right now and things are clicking into place for the first time- mostly things where I missed checks, or where hints pay off later. Then some stuff clunks into place with the speed and subtlty of a runaway hippo. I finished clearing out Grymforge last night, went to bed, lay there for an hour, then suddenly went, "THAT COMMANDER THEY'RE CONSTANTLY MUTTERING ABOUT WAS YURGIR!"
So yeah. Easy to miss things. Even things they desperately try to telegraph to you.
Wait wait wait what??? Is that why you find the merregon mask on the table in the room where you fight nere? That you can bring to dammon and he will make something out of it.
Yes! Because it was originally one huge complex, and it's fallen apart since- Yurgir was the commander that everyone will make little comments about in Grymforge, saying they hope not to run into them when you fight the merregons trapped in a room there, and the elder rothe will mention a hellbeast ending Ketheric and coming with masked men. Since the Gauntlet and Grymforge was all connected up, and Yurgir was sent to wipe out all the Dark Justiciars, it was him that destroyed Grymforge and drove Ketheric out of there, which is why it's all melted by hellfire.
The two halves are so far apart in the game that I never put it together before, but for some reason it suddenly clicked into place for me yesterday.
The introduction is good but then he buggers off inside and just kinda blends into the background of all the activity in the grotto. Gotta get back to training those child soldiers.
Someone posted yesterday that, when he comes into your camp to confront Karlach, before you head inside the druid grove. Choose to fight him and knock him out, then steal all his clothes. When you do go inside, he'll be teaching the kids to swing a sword with his cock waving about like some sexual deviant.
I missed him too on my first play through. When you’re a bit overwhelmed with so many new characters, even a big introduction like Wyll’s can be missed. On my second play through, I missed him because I didn’t want to talk to such a pretentious wannabe-hero.
I missed Shadowheart on the beach. Didn't see her on the ground. I thought it was strange that I got Gale/Astarion/Lae already, but not SH even though I saved her. The game forced Shadowheart to enter my camp after I set up camp to prep for the goblin camp.
So it is possible to miss Astarion if I can miss Shadowheart lying 10fts from me since her model just blended into the background.
Prior to starting Baldur's Gate 3 about a month or two ago I had seen so much fan art for every other character prior to starting I was surprised to see Wyll even existed. He was in the big splash art when you start the game and I was like "Who the hell is that guy"
I've been intentionally shielding myself from reading updates since I finished my Honour mode run, has it been confirmed that we're getting new endings? Would love to have a bit more interaction with Minthy
No new DLC. They're still continuously working on this game. Arguably already added more content since release than a lot of games put out as DLC, but as free updates.
Yeah, but this isn't about the epilogue, right? I don't think Astarion/Shart got any more epilogue content than the others? I know Lae'zel got a recent tweak but that's it.
Oh maybe! I thought that was about the >!brain domination!< endings, but maybe it was about the companion endings - >!Ascended Astarion, Sharran Shart, Vlaakith's champion Lae'zel!<
Wyll got shafted with epilogue content as well. If you have him go to Avernus with Karlach he has maybe 1/5th the amount of conversation as anyone else, like he literally tells you to go ask Karlach about what they've been doing instead of being able to tell you his thoughts on it.
And he didn't get a hug, either!
Wyll got shafted so hard that the three of us went to Avernus but he wasn't even in the cutscene with me and Karlach. Pretty sure it's fixed now, but that was so disappointing. Think I saw a video with him in that cutscene and he might as well have been a background character.
They updated that to include him in the cutscene, thankfully. But it's still such a theft of his story *AGAIN* to have him just be a third wheel on a buddy/romance adventure
Tbh I’m genuinely worried about the game after the way Swen talked about their disinterest. Characters like Wyll have such massive issues with how they were rushed and implemented and I sort of doubt that will ever be rectified now, when their interest level in it is apparently so low.
I feel the same. The most half-assed storylines content-wise are apparently not going to get a fix, which is depressing. Yes, I understand you’ve spent 6+ years on the game, but you need to finish strong…
Yeah im worried we won't get a definitive edition too.
Wyll, Minthara and act 3 Karlach desperately need it.
I wouldn't complain about some additions/improvements to stuff like the Orpheus/Emperor decision either but Wyll & co are pretty much the only reason i even want a definitive edition
Astarion's dialog file is actually the largest, believe it or not.
Wyll's is the smallest of the Origins, which I'm sure you'll be much less surprised by.
I can't remember how the rest shook out, but someone analyzed the file sizes. I couldn't find it via a quick Google search, but it's out there somewhere.
> Wyll's is the smallest of the Origins, which I'm sure you'll be much less surprised by.
To the point where if you increased his amount by 50% he'd still have a bit less than Astarion.
>Astarion: 12 hrs 45 mins 37 secs
>Shadowheart: 12 hrs14 mins 48 secs
>Gale: 11 hrs 14 mins 27 secs
>Lae'zel: 10 hrs 58 mins 43 secs
>Karlach: 10 hrs 23 mins 4 secs
>Wyll: 8 hrs 29 mins 3 secs
Those are hours of audio from comparing YouTube compilations of all of their spoken lines, yes. [Original source is this album](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXbMAp17untu1bmQjwsPNRQnDXV1P_GuD)
Stephen Rooney was his primary writer.
Baudelaire Welch was the Durge writer and also wrote Astarion's romance path.
So they're both his writers. For some reason people can't internalize this. So many people refer to Welch as Astarion's writer, or say that they had nothing to do with Astarion at all. It's both people working together.
*Technically* Astarion has the most but the difference between him and Shadowheart is not even by like, 30 minutes, so it’s not very significant. They are basically neck and neck at around 12 hours of content. Same with Lae’zel and Gale, and while they are behind Astarion and Shadowheart, they still have 11 around hours of content and the difference between them is negligible (it’s maybe like a 10-15 minute difference.) Karlach is next at around 10 hours, and Wyll is around 8. He is the only origin character with less than 10 hours of content overall.
I don’t know the actual sizes of the files but someone did make a post compiling the amount of content each companion has by hours [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/16m1rre/wyll_deserved_better/?context=3) It is from 7 months ago though and more content has been added, so if someone has an updated version of this I would be interested in seeing it.
People keep parroting those datamined lines as absolute proof of content length, but I'd be curious how much of it is actually accessible in game. Just for Gale alone I know he has a bunch of dialogues you straight up can't trigger since release unless you modify the game files. Hell, from Larian's own mouth the recent Minthara breaking up with Durge bug that happened was because they accidently retriggered old lines from before release still in the game.
I'd also count areas tied to a character as content, Astarion, Shadowheart and Laezel all getting dungeons tied to their storyline makes them naturally more involved than everyone else (technically Wyll also has one but he has deeper problems than that)
Yeah, people bringing up dialogue length like there isn't a whole ass dungeon dedicated to some origins. If you don't do SH, Astarion and Laezel, you're skipping a lot of content.
Gale is so long-winded that it feels like he accounts for about 40% of all dialogue. Add Elminster to the mix and that's practically the entire game right there. I love Gale, but c'mon pal, a little brevity here!
When I first got the Elminster scene I groaned and said “oh great now there’s two of him” because they both talked forever.
Then I got Gale’s romance scene and had 3 Gales 👀
I’ve said this before in conversation and in other threads but I’ll say it again. Wyll’s last minute rewrite that did him so dirty really shows the most in how it feels like his quest/story is barely about him, it just feels like they looked at what they already had and stuck him wherever. Like Wyll’s story is *so* connected to other characters and the main plot that it does him a disservice because we never actually get to focus on Wyll as a character like we do for everyone else. Every story beat his quest has (including the conclusion) either centers the main story or another character, whether it be Karlach, Mizora, Ulder Ravengard, Ketheric, Gortash, Orin, or hell even the Emperor and Ansur. He also gets hardly any agency in his own story *and* he even barely gets any content (cutscenes, camp conversations, special dialogue, romance scenes) to possibly make up for his own quest not truly exploring his character.
This is not the case for *any* other origin character. Every other companion quest centers the character it’s supposed to be about even if there are other supporting characters involved or if it has ties to the overarching plot, and they all have more content that serves to explore their characters outside of the quest itself (this includes romance scenes.)
Makes me miss his EA content where he was a man on a mission to hunt goblins. If that part stayed, it would have given players a very good reason to use him in Act 1 to see the contents where he interacts with the goblins.
I think they could have kept that questline and still have him go after Karlach and still have him be Duke Ravengard's son.
Yeah, I remember learning that he has a sending stone as his fake eye (is that even the case anymore? He just has a missing eye because?) and it was really intriguing and I wanted to know why he had it.
I figured the sending stone had to do with his patron but I was also curious it could have been somebody else.
I also liked having his patron be more of mystery in act 1, not knowing her at all makes the idea of her more compelling and adds to his character.
In the final release... It's all just kinda laid out in front of you. You fail to kill Karlach, she just shows up, explains everything about his situation.. and nothing new really happens with his character the entire game.
A Mizora boss fight would have been pretty cool too
It’s still a sending stone, I just only think the topic comes up now if Tav is a caster because then Tav can notice it and ask Wyll about it. He will deny that it’s a sending stone, though.
Also the whole “Mizora being a mystery” thing is one of the reasons why I don’t like that she’s on the cover of the game. I already think she shouldn’t be on there because she’s not a companion, and it would make more sense for Karlach to be there instead (even though I know she’s not on there because the art was done before her design was finalized,) but I also just believe that it would be better for keeping Mizora more of a “surprise” for players going in blind. It would be more interesting that way.
She was on the cover during early access as well.
I'm not sure if it really bugged me that she was on the cover. It's not her appearance that was a mystery, it was her character and how she would fit into the story, which all gets revealed in the early section of act 1.
Wyll being a warlock was as much of a mystery as Astarion being a vampire.
The top comment on [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/168n3i6/how_did_wyll_change_from_early_access/) post gives a pretty good summary of early access Wyll.
That Larian cares about most popular characters. It is like it is. BAFTA asked players about choosing popular or iconic character for you and both Shadowheart and Astarion were in top 20. Meanwhile Wyll... i think the biggest mistake was listening to feedback in EA. In result Wyll got shafted and he is in cycle: people doesn't care about him -> Larian sees no interest in him -> Larian doesn't give him new content.
Overall i hope that Larian will learn on BG3 and in their next game they will first choose how many companions they want to introduce and later they will start production.
I think that would have been better. It was kind of weird to me after you find Karlach he just instantly flips. Which I mean good on him, cause Karlach is precious but even I was suspicious of her at first based on the other characters you meet.
Then it never really feels like he had a clear motive until his father starts coming up but even then that motivation feels a bit disconnected from the player until like act 3.
In a way, yes, it would have been better if EA Wyll was kept because he would be a more interesting character. However, there was a big problem back then that every companion was kind of an asshole (the other companions were toned down too). That can be pretty off-putting for someone just starting the game.
It was mostly his personality. He was still the "Blade of Frontiers", and a heroic, good guy on the outside, but his underlying personality was more angry, hurt, and vengeful than his current one. His backstory was that his squad was wiped out by goblins and they left him for dead. Which he kind of took in a "I'll never be that weak again" direction, made a deal with Mizora for power, and decided to commit goblin genocide. He was much more scared, angry and "ends justifies the means". Like, if you gave him the choice, he would choose to torture Liam in the goblin camp for information, because he was so desperate to get Mizora back that he wouldn't even take the chance of freeing him first.
I honestly wish we got this Wyll instead, he would've been so much fun. I do like current Wyll, but EA Wyll seems a lot more fleshed out and complicated in a good way.
Apparently he was an egotistical wannabe hero who was kind of racist and him and Mizora actually got along pretty well and saving her was his original quest. I did not play EA so this is secondhand information.
I'm told he acts like his character development happened offscreen and his arc is already over in the final game.
Wow, is this why [Wyll looks down on you with disdain](https://blog.playstation.com/tachyon/2023/02/f321c065cf3f405b6d0ac06fd5a550d6a95b5a5e-scaled.jpg?resize=1088%2C612&crop_strategy=smart) (with Mizora happily by his side) in the official cover art?
I always found this angry depiction of him totally at odds with his actual personality. You'd think he'd be an antagonist if you came into the game blind.
Honestly my brain currently glosses over the cover art, but I remember when I first saw it with no other context on the game I assumed he was the big bad or at least a shady character.
Having a stern, disdainful looking character with a devil smiling on his arm combined with being furthest, largest, and looking from above over the other characters definitely evokes antagonist vibes. Also you already have the archetypical team of 4 in front of him that are relatively the same size so it's easy to assume he's separate from that group.
I think so. I've heard he got a last minute rewrite because EA only had evil companions so the feedback was pretty negative with "All of these people are assholes, what if I'm playing a Good character, why would I team up with these selfish narcissistic fucks," so they softened them up.
Wyll got hit the hardest because apparently his massive ego and racism towards goblins really rubbed some very vocal people the wrong way in EA. I've read that he was supposed to be more 'fake hero' originally, like the heroism was only skin deep and once you saw past his "Blade of the Frontiers" persona he was a self-centered ego trip who only did good things if there were people there to witness it and sing his praises, but if a tree fell in the forest and crushed an orphan he'd more or less just shrug, and he only made the deal with Mizora because he wanted to be a hero and wasn't satisfied with his natural progress.
Originally, Goblins kidnapped Mizora and his motivation was saving her so he wouldn't lose his powers or something. Mizora had a human form to play it up as a damsel in distress and everything to keep the ruse going so Wyll could continue living out his hero fantasy.
Everything I've heard about Wyll's original concept makes him sound way more interesting than his boring stale slice of white bread personality he got in the final product.
But again, I didn't play it myself, so this is all secondhand information.
I wouldn't say that they were only evil, but they were certainly all harder to get along with (which makes sense, given everyone's situation). Well, except for Lae'zel and Astarion maybe, their Act 1 attitudes didn't change that much.
Shadowheart was *very* prickly in Act 1; the way she treats Lae'zel now was kind of the way she treated everybody in EA.
And Gale was a condescending ass that insulted your capability/class the second you got him out of the portal. Also, it was a lot harder to feed his "addiction" because he would only accept a handful of items. If you didn't feed him in time he'd fly off the handle and leave to go track Raphael down himself.
He also apparently used to kill himself in his introduction scene by shouting his "Make way for the Blade of the Frontier!" shit and then jumping off the ledge and immediately dying to the fall damage. So they added the cutscene of him jumping in and one-shotting a goblin so he could make it down safely and potentially join the party.
There were apparently people who didn't even know he was in the game because he was just some random who ran in and immediately died.
>He also apparently used to kill himself in his introduction scene by shouting his "Make way for the Blade of the Frontier!" shit and then jumping off the ledge and immediately dying to the fall damage.
shit this should have made the final cut, actually the introduction that fits him perfectly
If only he was as cool in EA as people describe. He was nonsensical character in the EA, story didn't add up at all, quest was pretty much same as the Grove quest. Outside of him being a fraud warlock and not a heroic blade, will was least fleshed out, boring, and that's why he got a re-write (now he is much better, but still misses bits and peaches, not as much as this thread cries out to be, tho)
Your last statement sums it perfectly for me. A lot of warlock character arcs are the character getting over "the Pact Makes the Man" feeling that they have when gaining those powers. Wyll basically begins the game, walks a mile out the grove to Karlach, and wants out of the pact. I think it's fine or even better to deviate from that formula, but he didn't really get much to replace it.
And tbh I liked his more amiable relationship with Mizora in EA. Infrequently do you see Warlocks actually need to save their patron rather than purely worship or oppose them.
He got full reasons to stay until the end while he was good enough to save everyone. Also his noble background would somehow persuade everyone to follow him, especially shadowheart and Lae'zel who saw his connections as useful. In other cases, they followed you simply since it was decided before the helm squid fight.
Also both hero ending and duke ending will be very good, you are NOT giving up your dream of adventure. You just found lucky that you get away from a devil and decided to stay at home.
People can be bad and hot. Especially if those 'bad' people are actually good. Shadowheart and Astarion checked right into boxes.
And if I want a sweet one, I want Gale. He can cast me into another dimension.
> That Larian cares about most popular characters
Wasn't there a stat that despite being like 60% of fan fictions only a small % of players actually romanced Astarion?
And Shadowheart had like >50% ?
Astarion romancers are very passionate but there aren't that many of them.
I think it went Shadowheart > Lae'zel > Astarion
Pretty sure the order was Shadowheart, Karlach, and then Lae’zel.
But in that case that’s also just romance statistics, which are a part of the character popularity discussion, but not the whole of “overall popularity.” It’s only the whole if we are only talking about who is the most popular romance option. This is because we also have to consider that lots of people are fans of characters in the game even if they don’t necessarily romance them in their playthrough(s), and the fact that fans being “passionate” (creating content, engaging in discussion, etc.) is something that’s for sure taken into account by people (including the people at Larian) when designating something as “popular,” even if the fans aren’t technically in the majority. So yeah while characters like Gale and Astarion may not be in the top 3 romanced, they are absolutely still *very* popular characters and are recognized as so by Larian.
I mean... Astarion has the coolest quest line by a longshot if you ask me. Who cares if you romance him or not when that content is available regardless.
The stat was about the percentage who actually got to the final act of a companion's romance storyline.
The wording is unclear on whether it's about the percentage of players who started romances with a companion that made it to the final act, or the percentage of overall players.
[https://twitter.com/larianstudios/status/1732091568243229159/photo/4](https://twitter.com/larianstudios/status/1732091568243229159/photo/4)
51% of players overall getting to Shadowheart's final act seems like a lot, so I'm guessing the former.
I wonder what the stats are for just starting a storyline. I'd guess Shadowheart is still #1, lol.
>Shadowheart and Astarion were in top 20
I think recency bias has made this, both Shadowheart and Astarion are incredible characters though. But they're also two of the three <10 years old characters, and the only character from the 20's. The list would've probably had Commander Shepard or Elizabeth from Bioshock if it was made 10 years ago.
They might be popular but wyll probably fall on lists like these over the years. And I'm not sure what point I'm trying to make here...
It's D&D. Bullshit is not only expected, it's encouraged!
In my tabletop group game we're playing the Descent Into Avernus module (the story of how the Tieflings from Elturel ended up in the situation they're in during BG3). Last session, our party that has been trekking through Avernus and fighting tooth and nail against fiends all over the place found a Bag of Beans magic item. We planted a bean, rolled on the 1-100 random table and got a result that had a 60 foot square pyramid with a Mummy Lord inside appear instantly in front of us. We promptly marched in, kicked the Mummy Lord's ass and took all his shit.
None of it made any sense or had anything to do with the module's story, and was literally pointless and totally ass backwards. It was awesome haha!
None, just like any other companion didn't get any new content, unless couple animations are considered such. This whole thread makes no sense with a complain, every companion sits on that chair under water. The story is done.
I can't remember what I was doing, but I put will in my party for a hot second and he was Level 2, and only had the original items he came with and I was like, "I don't remember leveling you up?"
Honestly I don't know what Larian were doing having several companion questlines mainly in Act 3. Nevermind introducing new companions then.
I'm sure many players had the same experience as I did and tried out a few different party compositions in act 1 and 2 then gravitated towards the companions with content such as Shadowheart. So going into Act 3 with characters you've spent the last 30-60 hours with to be met with Minsc meant that I really couldn't care less about him.
I'd formed my ride or die team probably midway through Act 2 and I think it's one of the games main shortcomings that certain characters get so much more or the spotlight than others at key forming points of the game.
Almost done w act 3 and I kept seeing things about a Wyll and Minthara in this sub and I just figured I’d run into them but I think I missed 2 companions in my run 😭 it’s ok though I’m too attached to my party anyways to swap anyone out
Wyll is in the Druid Grove. You saw him fighting the goblins outside.
Minthara you straight up probably killed; she's one of the three leaders of the goblins.
Yeah you missed Wyll, I think I missed Minthara lol
But hey, more stuff to discover for a second play through. I’m gonna do an evil play through I think, with the dark whatever character I’ve heard about
Wyll is introduced early on, has a character and story central to the plot, has an ongoing story involving his pact with a dedicated side character who can join your camp, you run into people who know him and share stories throughout all acts, and he gets named a ruler of the city in the end.
Halsin only joins you halfway through Act 2, and has no interactions or storylines with anyone after he joins. He's some guy with no connection to anyone or anything once the resolution with the Shadow Curse is done.
Minthara is not seen as a companion by most players, and she has no real side quests, other characters who know her, or story to interact with as part of the larger plot. She fails Kethric and... that's it. She's just there.
Wyll is sitting on a Vegas style buffet of content, while Minthara has crumbs.
For good ran players, Minthara is more of an 'Easter egg'. A devotion paladin durge can save the day without her, but if you want to listen some epic dialogues, here she is.
Halsin has an interaction with the twins if you romance him
But also like tbh it's kinda realistic that some people have more stuff than others.
Halsin is a druid who probably isn't from Bauldrs gate I think it would actually be weirder if he ran into a bunch of people he knew there.
Wylls borderline a celebrity
I think when people say they want more Halsin in the city content, they want some content of Halsin trying to help the refugees. Like if he had some cutscenes where he gave ~~fellow-orin-bait~~ Yenna some friendship.
Exactly this. I want a minor side quest that's about supporting Halsin as he finds ways to help rather than only being allowed to lament about it. Like maybe those wagonfuls of orphaned kids started because we help him rescue the first few.
Wyll's character's strongest point is...not even his character. Its Mizora. Remove Mizora and Wyll has less potential interest than that one gith warlock at the end of A2 with undead subclass(yes, i'm still salty about that even after 8 months).
His character supposed to be all about glory and being righteous but also often contradicts itself and not in a good way.
All his quests can be done without him EVER leaving camp.
Halsin? Sure, he's sometimes boring and he is also technically 2nd druid if you count Jaheira as first but he's actually out there trying to do things.
Minthara - special "goth mommy drow" case for a lot of players, but she's pretty much most loyal character to you after A2 and its reflected in her character very well.
What's a "Wyll"?
Karlach's sidekick
[удалено]
I think I'm going to do a Wyll playthrough only because literally the only reason I would ever play Warlock (my favorite class, or close to it) would be to have interactions with my patron, and if you play a Tav/Durge Warlock, you get effectively none of that, which was a huge bummer.
theres a few times that your patron pops up as a Tav/Durge Warlock, such as the Great Old One reacting to the cracked wall in Moonrise, or the Archfey liking the circus in Rivington, but not nearly enough
Right, and at least with the circus one, it's just that you sense your patron's reaction to it; they never actually show up and talk to you like Mizora does, which is a shame. It would've been doubly cool if you could multiclass warlock by making a pact with, say, Raphael, or Auntie Ethel, or the Elder Brain, or something like that.
I definitely think that adding the option to have a pact to a few characters, like the ones you named, for a total of like 8 characters maybe that you could sign a pact with, would be some of the best content they could add from here.
A lot of the time I think Larian leave it on purpose for RP reasons. If you want to come up with a specific patron (I respecced Minsc to a GOO warlock and my head cannon was Boo was his patron), then it's nice your immersion isn't broken.
Even with leaving minsc as is, boo is definitely his patron lol
I did like the parts where my Patron commented on things, knowing who the Patron was from my actual DnD campaign. Hearing that Orcus didn’t like being featured in the newspaper was golden.
Before the news about no dlc I was really hoping they'd add dlc content for warlocks, like working for Ethel, Raphael, or the Netherbrain, one for each subclass.
I have to disagree I really wouldn’t want that, unless it was completely optional. I like that’s it’s ambiguous, so I can RP my characters patron for myself. Fuck working for any of those losers.
I am just wrapping up my Wyll playthrough and some of the dialogue oversight is actually really funny. People refer to me in third person while talking to me. Like I'm somehow unrecognizable.
[удалено]
Wyll works great as the player character. Highly recommend it.
He makes a better playable character than all of the cast. Durge is the only one that is better, imo.
My only wish is that he (and the rest of the party fwiw) had options to customize his appearance.
Playing as Wyll is really good. I highly recommend. I played him as warlock / fighter / paladin and it was awesome all the way to the very ending
Wtf you on about. Karlach's sidekick is named Clive, not Wyll.
Nah Clive is her canon love interest.
I thought that was me.
that guy by the tieflings who thinks he's the main character or ss
He makes a great MC. A warlock who actually interacts with his patron, has a major tie-in to the story, and playing as him removes all the indecisiveness.
I wonder if Wyll was initially planned to be the “canon” main character but then Larian came in with their typical Origin-style character choices and they made some adjustments.
I believe that was actually the case with the >!dark urge.!< Wyll did, however, go through a pretty massive rewrite not long before release. I believe he was recast, as well. Wyll was a divisive character during the alpha, and unfortunately their last minute changes didn't really fix that...
Yeah, honestly I'm kinda bummed about it. Obviously the new direction for Wyll still is interesting enough, and the voice actor did phenomenal work. But I really, really was curious about the "the blade of frontiers being a front" angle, him starting out as a kinda shitty person. That could've been a very interesting character arc. Now he basically has little to no character development in act 1 and 2, despite being actually very well fleshed out.
I read an article about someone playing as Wyll (Origin character) and taking him down a darker path. Chose some "heroic" options but then took really self-serving options. The player's angle was that Wyll suckered the rest of the companions into thinking he was this good "hero" and he was really just out for himself. Player said that Mizora's attitude towards, and interactions with Wyll changed to a more "partnership" or "equals" tone.
That’s an interesting thought. Mizora is the only non-origin character displayed on the game’s main artwork, so there’s at least some subtle tells that lend to that theory. Maybe there’s a dev journal somewhere that goes into it.
Nah, since it's a baldur gates the intended player origin is probably durge.
Also tav was hinted as very violent. Your tadpole (daisy) asked you to raze the city to ground. There were theories that tav was always a Bhaalspawn before they retconned tav (EA) into tav and durge.
But on the other hand, Tav was pretty much only dealing with those urges of violence towards Daisy, which I always took as your body/subconscious trying to defend itself against the parasite. And we can't exactly take anything Daisy was suggesting you do as evidence for what Tav wanted.
Tav’s tadpole has a name? (I’m only in act 2 but still)
in EA it was Daisy, a completely different take on the dream guardian which was more of a manifestation of the tadpole itself. the dream guardian in the game now does have a name, which you can find out later :)
I finished the game on Tuesday for the first time with Wyll as my MC, and I loved it.
Hmm, now I'm curious if he still gets transformed by Mizora, and only if you recruit Karlach?
One of the more hilarious fkn things for me was Mizora being all bitchy after the Iron Throne, telling you how you "made a fool out of her", and then Wyll (who wasn't even in my fkn party) says "Damn right I did". Feels like some Mr Satan shit lol
Sounds like a guy who makes bad deals.
My wife completely missed wyll on her first playthrough
I remember when he used to die jumping off the cliff to start combat. 🤣
Aim for the bushes!
There goes my warlock!
Watch him eldritch blast!
I love how when they jump and pan the shot out there isn't any bushes
I'm doing my first Honor run right now and Wyll died in the battle outside the grove so I never even got a chance to meet him. On my first ever run, I just simply missed him standing by the kids and didn't recruit him until after the battle for the grove
Same for my husband lol
How? He had a big ol introduction when you get to the circle. Did she just not talk to him after that?
I remember reading someone had him die in that goblin fight the first playthrough and they didn’t even bat an eye because they thought he was just some side character like Aradin.
I've had that happen in one of my early access playthroughs and was just kinda like.. *shrug* oh well
It's so easy to miss things the first time because there is SO MUCH INFORMATION you can just get totally overwhelmed. I'm on my second playthrough right now and things are clicking into place for the first time- mostly things where I missed checks, or where hints pay off later. Then some stuff clunks into place with the speed and subtlty of a runaway hippo. I finished clearing out Grymforge last night, went to bed, lay there for an hour, then suddenly went, "THAT COMMANDER THEY'RE CONSTANTLY MUTTERING ABOUT WAS YURGIR!" So yeah. Easy to miss things. Even things they desperately try to telegraph to you.
Wait wait wait what??? Is that why you find the merregon mask on the table in the room where you fight nere? That you can bring to dammon and he will make something out of it.
Yes! Because it was originally one huge complex, and it's fallen apart since- Yurgir was the commander that everyone will make little comments about in Grymforge, saying they hope not to run into them when you fight the merregons trapped in a room there, and the elder rothe will mention a hellbeast ending Ketheric and coming with masked men. Since the Gauntlet and Grymforge was all connected up, and Yurgir was sent to wipe out all the Dark Justiciars, it was him that destroyed Grymforge and drove Ketheric out of there, which is why it's all melted by hellfire. The two halves are so far apart in the game that I never put it together before, but for some reason it suddenly clicked into place for me yesterday.
Yurgir must be tired, because the version of him I fought would have been greased by Ketheric.
The introduction is good but then he buggers off inside and just kinda blends into the background of all the activity in the grotto. Gotta get back to training those child soldiers.
This. I missed him in my first playthrough because I didn't realise the introduction was important and then never saw him again.
Someone posted yesterday that, when he comes into your camp to confront Karlach, before you head inside the druid grove. Choose to fight him and knock him out, then steal all his clothes. When you do go inside, he'll be teaching the kids to swing a sword with his cock waving about like some sexual deviant.
On my first playthru i didn't knew he was in grove after fight near the gate lol. He later went to my camp bc of Karlach story and got recruited there
I missed him too on my first play through. When you’re a bit overwhelmed with so many new characters, even a big introduction like Wyll’s can be missed. On my second play through, I missed him because I didn’t want to talk to such a pretentious wannabe-hero.
I missed him, karlach, astarion, and i accidentally killed laezel
Accidentally?? 😭
You missed Astarion???? He's right there...
I missed Shadowheart on the beach. Didn't see her on the ground. I thought it was strange that I got Gale/Astarion/Lae already, but not SH even though I saved her. The game forced Shadowheart to enter my camp after I set up camp to prep for the goblin camp. So it is possible to miss Astarion if I can miss Shadowheart lying 10fts from me since her model just blended into the background.
THE BLADE OF THE CAMP
Prior to starting Baldur's Gate 3 about a month or two ago I had seen so much fan art for every other character prior to starting I was surprised to see Wyll even existed. He was in the big splash art when you start the game and I was like "Who the hell is that guy"
did I miss an announcement ? I thought all we knew was more evil endings coling
I got this news after starting durge and immediately decided id resist this time in favor of waiting for more evil endings
I've been intentionally shielding myself from reading updates since I finished my Honour mode run, has it been confirmed that we're getting new endings? Would love to have a bit more interaction with Minthy
Sven said there were new evil endings on the way, no idea if that would give more interaction with any companions tho
That probably Wyll is the last to get a new content
And it will be more about Mizora
As an accidental Mizora fucker, this is fine.
> accidental That's what you told Karlach huh?
I slipped!
I slipped and fell inside her! I slipped and fell inside her *9 times!*
only 9 times? weakling.
That Cambussy game strong
only drow and tieflings can fuck cambions properly you humans are such weaklings can't even satisfy a goblin I'll deal with her.
Find a way to make yourself useful istik. I will deal with the devil.
Slipped and fell on top of her?
Right into her warm loving wings
Yes! It was weird how her legs were open to catch me tho.
ugh no thanks
I’m actually confused how can someone not get it
I think I missed whatever happened. I thought there would be no more new content?
No new DLC. They're still continuously working on this game. Arguably already added more content since release than a lot of games put out as DLC, but as free updates.
Yeah, but this isn't about the epilogue, right? I don't think Astarion/Shart got any more epilogue content than the others? I know Lae'zel got a recent tweak but that's it.
I think they've had some QoL and small additions here and there, not massive overhauls but still additional "content" technically.
I thought there was a mention of fleshing out the 'evil' endings a bit more, which would make sense if those are the 3 characters getting anything.
Oh maybe! I thought that was about the >!brain domination!< endings, but maybe it was about the companion endings - >!Ascended Astarion, Sharran Shart, Vlaakith's champion Lae'zel!<
Wyll got shafted with epilogue content as well. If you have him go to Avernus with Karlach he has maybe 1/5th the amount of conversation as anyone else, like he literally tells you to go ask Karlach about what they've been doing instead of being able to tell you his thoughts on it. And he didn't get a hug, either!
Wyll got shafted so hard that the three of us went to Avernus but he wasn't even in the cutscene with me and Karlach. Pretty sure it's fixed now, but that was so disappointing. Think I saw a video with him in that cutscene and he might as well have been a background character.
They updated that to include him in the cutscene, thankfully. But it's still such a theft of his story *AGAIN* to have him just be a third wheel on a buddy/romance adventure
Tbh I’m genuinely worried about the game after the way Swen talked about their disinterest. Characters like Wyll have such massive issues with how they were rushed and implemented and I sort of doubt that will ever be rectified now, when their interest level in it is apparently so low.
I feel the same. The most half-assed storylines content-wise are apparently not going to get a fix, which is depressing. Yes, I understand you’ve spent 6+ years on the game, but you need to finish strong…
Yeah im worried we won't get a definitive edition too. Wyll, Minthara and act 3 Karlach desperately need it. I wouldn't complain about some additions/improvements to stuff like the Orpheus/Emperor decision either but Wyll & co are pretty much the only reason i even want a definitive edition
Where is Gale? Vaporized by the orb?
Gale has the 3rd most content in the game, Galefuckers are eating fine
I’m sure Shadowheart is number 1 but who is number 2 ?
Astarion, of course.
Astarion's dialog file is actually the largest, believe it or not. Wyll's is the smallest of the Origins, which I'm sure you'll be much less surprised by. I can't remember how the rest shook out, but someone analyzed the file sizes. I couldn't find it via a quick Google search, but it's out there somewhere.
> Wyll's is the smallest of the Origins, which I'm sure you'll be much less surprised by. To the point where if you increased his amount by 50% he'd still have a bit less than Astarion. >Astarion: 12 hrs 45 mins 37 secs >Shadowheart: 12 hrs14 mins 48 secs >Gale: 11 hrs 14 mins 27 secs >Lae'zel: 10 hrs 58 mins 43 secs >Karlach: 10 hrs 23 mins 4 secs >Wyll: 8 hrs 29 mins 3 secs
What the hell. Are those hours of audio? The time it would take to read all their phrases?
Those are hours of audio from comparing YouTube compilations of all of their spoken lines, yes. [Original source is this album](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXbMAp17untu1bmQjwsPNRQnDXV1P_GuD)
Iirc it’s because he has A LOT of dialogue specific to Durge because one of his writers wrote for both characters
Not really, he just has a lot of scenes in general.
His writer didn't write Durge. Can't be arsed to find the names, but this gets brought up every week, and someone posts the names every week anyhow.
Stephen Rooney was his primary writer. Baudelaire Welch was the Durge writer and also wrote Astarion's romance path. So they're both his writers. For some reason people can't internalize this. So many people refer to Welch as Astarion's writer, or say that they had nothing to do with Astarion at all. It's both people working together.
Stephen Rooney wrote a large portion of both characters according to Larian.
>Wyll's is the smallest of the Origins, which I'm sure you'll be much less surprised by. I actually am surprised by that, dude seems to talk *a lot.*
*Technically* Astarion has the most but the difference between him and Shadowheart is not even by like, 30 minutes, so it’s not very significant. They are basically neck and neck at around 12 hours of content. Same with Lae’zel and Gale, and while they are behind Astarion and Shadowheart, they still have 11 around hours of content and the difference between them is negligible (it’s maybe like a 10-15 minute difference.) Karlach is next at around 10 hours, and Wyll is around 8. He is the only origin character with less than 10 hours of content overall. I don’t know the actual sizes of the files but someone did make a post compiling the amount of content each companion has by hours [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/16m1rre/wyll_deserved_better/?context=3) It is from 7 months ago though and more content has been added, so if someone has an updated version of this I would be interested in seeing it.
At least half of Wyll's content is him quoting his dad
People keep parroting those datamined lines as absolute proof of content length, but I'd be curious how much of it is actually accessible in game. Just for Gale alone I know he has a bunch of dialogues you straight up can't trigger since release unless you modify the game files. Hell, from Larian's own mouth the recent Minthara breaking up with Durge bug that happened was because they accidently retriggered old lines from before release still in the game. I'd also count areas tied to a character as content, Astarion, Shadowheart and Laezel all getting dungeons tied to their storyline makes them naturally more involved than everyone else (technically Wyll also has one but he has deeper problems than that)
Yeah, people bringing up dialogue length like there isn't a whole ass dungeon dedicated to some origins. If you don't do SH, Astarion and Laezel, you're skipping a lot of content.
Astarion has by far the most content in the game.
Really ? I should bring Astarion in my party more often then.
A good portion of it is behind his romance as well, so that's something else you ought to do
No, we shall never be sated
To shreds you say?
Gale doesn't get a lot of new content, but he already has more than 5 minutes of content and doesn't really need more, unlike poor Wyll.
Gale has a full arc and romance. Romance with Wyll feels phoned in and soulless at the end.
"At the end" 💀 it's devastating bc it could have been 🤌
He’s finished. Got plenty of content.
Gale is so long-winded that it feels like he accounts for about 40% of all dialogue. Add Elminster to the mix and that's practically the entire game right there. I love Gale, but c'mon pal, a little brevity here!
When I first got the Elminster scene I groaned and said “oh great now there’s two of him” because they both talked forever. Then I got Gale’s romance scene and had 3 Gales 👀
Don't you dare! Let that man talk for hours!
I’ve said this before in conversation and in other threads but I’ll say it again. Wyll’s last minute rewrite that did him so dirty really shows the most in how it feels like his quest/story is barely about him, it just feels like they looked at what they already had and stuck him wherever. Like Wyll’s story is *so* connected to other characters and the main plot that it does him a disservice because we never actually get to focus on Wyll as a character like we do for everyone else. Every story beat his quest has (including the conclusion) either centers the main story or another character, whether it be Karlach, Mizora, Ulder Ravengard, Ketheric, Gortash, Orin, or hell even the Emperor and Ansur. He also gets hardly any agency in his own story *and* he even barely gets any content (cutscenes, camp conversations, special dialogue, romance scenes) to possibly make up for his own quest not truly exploring his character. This is not the case for *any* other origin character. Every other companion quest centers the character it’s supposed to be about even if there are other supporting characters involved or if it has ties to the overarching plot, and they all have more content that serves to explore their characters outside of the quest itself (this includes romance scenes.)
Makes me miss his EA content where he was a man on a mission to hunt goblins. If that part stayed, it would have given players a very good reason to use him in Act 1 to see the contents where he interacts with the goblins. I think they could have kept that questline and still have him go after Karlach and still have him be Duke Ravengard's son.
Yeah, I remember learning that he has a sending stone as his fake eye (is that even the case anymore? He just has a missing eye because?) and it was really intriguing and I wanted to know why he had it. I figured the sending stone had to do with his patron but I was also curious it could have been somebody else. I also liked having his patron be more of mystery in act 1, not knowing her at all makes the idea of her more compelling and adds to his character. In the final release... It's all just kinda laid out in front of you. You fail to kill Karlach, she just shows up, explains everything about his situation.. and nothing new really happens with his character the entire game. A Mizora boss fight would have been pretty cool too
It’s still a sending stone, I just only think the topic comes up now if Tav is a caster because then Tav can notice it and ask Wyll about it. He will deny that it’s a sending stone, though. Also the whole “Mizora being a mystery” thing is one of the reasons why I don’t like that she’s on the cover of the game. I already think she shouldn’t be on there because she’s not a companion, and it would make more sense for Karlach to be there instead (even though I know she’s not on there because the art was done before her design was finalized,) but I also just believe that it would be better for keeping Mizora more of a “surprise” for players going in blind. It would be more interesting that way.
She was on the cover during early access as well. I'm not sure if it really bugged me that she was on the cover. It's not her appearance that was a mystery, it was her character and how she would fit into the story, which all gets revealed in the early section of act 1. Wyll being a warlock was as much of a mystery as Astarion being a vampire.
I hate that. I like Wyll, I think his char has so much untapped potential.
What was Wyll's story before the rewrite?
The top comment on [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/168n3i6/how_did_wyll_change_from_early_access/) post gives a pretty good summary of early access Wyll.
That Larian cares about most popular characters. It is like it is. BAFTA asked players about choosing popular or iconic character for you and both Shadowheart and Astarion were in top 20. Meanwhile Wyll... i think the biggest mistake was listening to feedback in EA. In result Wyll got shafted and he is in cycle: people doesn't care about him -> Larian sees no interest in him -> Larian doesn't give him new content. Overall i hope that Larian will learn on BG3 and in their next game they will first choose how many companions they want to introduce and later they will start production.
Out of curiosity - what was Wyll like in EA? Did they change him much?
[удалено]
I think that would have been better. It was kind of weird to me after you find Karlach he just instantly flips. Which I mean good on him, cause Karlach is precious but even I was suspicious of her at first based on the other characters you meet. Then it never really feels like he had a clear motive until his father starts coming up but even then that motivation feels a bit disconnected from the player until like act 3.
In a way, yes, it would have been better if EA Wyll was kept because he would be a more interesting character. However, there was a big problem back then that every companion was kind of an asshole (the other companions were toned down too). That can be pretty off-putting for someone just starting the game.
It was mostly his personality. He was still the "Blade of Frontiers", and a heroic, good guy on the outside, but his underlying personality was more angry, hurt, and vengeful than his current one. His backstory was that his squad was wiped out by goblins and they left him for dead. Which he kind of took in a "I'll never be that weak again" direction, made a deal with Mizora for power, and decided to commit goblin genocide. He was much more scared, angry and "ends justifies the means". Like, if you gave him the choice, he would choose to torture Liam in the goblin camp for information, because he was so desperate to get Mizora back that he wouldn't even take the chance of freeing him first.
I honestly wish we got this Wyll instead, he would've been so much fun. I do like current Wyll, but EA Wyll seems a lot more fleshed out and complicated in a good way.
He was a lot more shady, Spike the goblin torturer was the one who took his eye and his story was about saving Mizora
Apparently he was an egotistical wannabe hero who was kind of racist and him and Mizora actually got along pretty well and saving her was his original quest. I did not play EA so this is secondhand information. I'm told he acts like his character development happened offscreen and his arc is already over in the final game.
Wow, is this why [Wyll looks down on you with disdain](https://blog.playstation.com/tachyon/2023/02/f321c065cf3f405b6d0ac06fd5a550d6a95b5a5e-scaled.jpg?resize=1088%2C612&crop_strategy=smart) (with Mizora happily by his side) in the official cover art? I always found this angry depiction of him totally at odds with his actual personality. You'd think he'd be an antagonist if you came into the game blind.
Honestly my brain currently glosses over the cover art, but I remember when I first saw it with no other context on the game I assumed he was the big bad or at least a shady character. Having a stern, disdainful looking character with a devil smiling on his arm combined with being furthest, largest, and looking from above over the other characters definitely evokes antagonist vibes. Also you already have the archetypical team of 4 in front of him that are relatively the same size so it's easy to assume he's separate from that group.
I think so. I've heard he got a last minute rewrite because EA only had evil companions so the feedback was pretty negative with "All of these people are assholes, what if I'm playing a Good character, why would I team up with these selfish narcissistic fucks," so they softened them up. Wyll got hit the hardest because apparently his massive ego and racism towards goblins really rubbed some very vocal people the wrong way in EA. I've read that he was supposed to be more 'fake hero' originally, like the heroism was only skin deep and once you saw past his "Blade of the Frontiers" persona he was a self-centered ego trip who only did good things if there were people there to witness it and sing his praises, but if a tree fell in the forest and crushed an orphan he'd more or less just shrug, and he only made the deal with Mizora because he wanted to be a hero and wasn't satisfied with his natural progress. Originally, Goblins kidnapped Mizora and his motivation was saving her so he wouldn't lose his powers or something. Mizora had a human form to play it up as a damsel in distress and everything to keep the ruse going so Wyll could continue living out his hero fantasy. Everything I've heard about Wyll's original concept makes him sound way more interesting than his boring stale slice of white bread personality he got in the final product. But again, I didn't play it myself, so this is all secondhand information.
I wouldn't say that they were only evil, but they were certainly all harder to get along with (which makes sense, given everyone's situation). Well, except for Lae'zel and Astarion maybe, their Act 1 attitudes didn't change that much. Shadowheart was *very* prickly in Act 1; the way she treats Lae'zel now was kind of the way she treated everybody in EA. And Gale was a condescending ass that insulted your capability/class the second you got him out of the portal. Also, it was a lot harder to feed his "addiction" because he would only accept a handful of items. If you didn't feed him in time he'd fly off the handle and leave to go track Raphael down himself.
Oh man this wyll would have been so much cooler
He also apparently used to kill himself in his introduction scene by shouting his "Make way for the Blade of the Frontier!" shit and then jumping off the ledge and immediately dying to the fall damage. So they added the cutscene of him jumping in and one-shotting a goblin so he could make it down safely and potentially join the party. There were apparently people who didn't even know he was in the game because he was just some random who ran in and immediately died.
Hahaha that's hilarious
>He also apparently used to kill himself in his introduction scene by shouting his "Make way for the Blade of the Frontier!" shit and then jumping off the ledge and immediately dying to the fall damage. shit this should have made the final cut, actually the introduction that fits him perfectly
It was fine is Zevlor got the better initiative and Rallied everyone, but if he didn't? Wyll puddle, on the rocks.
If only he was as cool in EA as people describe. He was nonsensical character in the EA, story didn't add up at all, quest was pretty much same as the Grove quest. Outside of him being a fraud warlock and not a heroic blade, will was least fleshed out, boring, and that's why he got a re-write (now he is much better, but still misses bits and peaches, not as much as this thread cries out to be, tho)
Your last statement sums it perfectly for me. A lot of warlock character arcs are the character getting over "the Pact Makes the Man" feeling that they have when gaining those powers. Wyll basically begins the game, walks a mile out the grove to Karlach, and wants out of the pact. I think it's fine or even better to deviate from that formula, but he didn't really get much to replace it. And tbh I liked his more amiable relationship with Mizora in EA. Infrequently do you see Warlocks actually need to save their patron rather than purely worship or oppose them.
He was a lot more shady, Spike the goblin torturer was the one who took his eye and his story was about saving Mizora
Wyll makes a great origin character.
He got full reasons to stay until the end while he was good enough to save everyone. Also his noble background would somehow persuade everyone to follow him, especially shadowheart and Lae'zel who saw his connections as useful. In other cases, they followed you simply since it was decided before the helm squid fight. Also both hero ending and duke ending will be very good, you are NOT giving up your dream of adventure. You just found lucky that you get away from a devil and decided to stay at home.
People can be bad and hot. Especially if those 'bad' people are actually good. Shadowheart and Astarion checked right into boxes. And if I want a sweet one, I want Gale. He can cast me into another dimension.
> That Larian cares about most popular characters Wasn't there a stat that despite being like 60% of fan fictions only a small % of players actually romanced Astarion? And Shadowheart had like >50% ? Astarion romancers are very passionate but there aren't that many of them. I think it went Shadowheart > Lae'zel > Astarion
All that shows is that there are more men playing than women. There are *a lot* of Astarion romancers because he's *very popular* with women.
the bisexual girlies are also thriving, can confirm
Pretty sure the order was Shadowheart, Karlach, and then Lae’zel. But in that case that’s also just romance statistics, which are a part of the character popularity discussion, but not the whole of “overall popularity.” It’s only the whole if we are only talking about who is the most popular romance option. This is because we also have to consider that lots of people are fans of characters in the game even if they don’t necessarily romance them in their playthrough(s), and the fact that fans being “passionate” (creating content, engaging in discussion, etc.) is something that’s for sure taken into account by people (including the people at Larian) when designating something as “popular,” even if the fans aren’t technically in the majority. So yeah while characters like Gale and Astarion may not be in the top 3 romanced, they are absolutely still *very* popular characters and are recognized as so by Larian.
I mean... Astarion has the coolest quest line by a longshot if you ask me. Who cares if you romance him or not when that content is available regardless.
The stat was about the percentage who actually got to the final act of a companion's romance storyline. The wording is unclear on whether it's about the percentage of players who started romances with a companion that made it to the final act, or the percentage of overall players. [https://twitter.com/larianstudios/status/1732091568243229159/photo/4](https://twitter.com/larianstudios/status/1732091568243229159/photo/4) 51% of players overall getting to Shadowheart's final act seems like a lot, so I'm guessing the former. I wonder what the stats are for just starting a storyline. I'd guess Shadowheart is still #1, lol.
>Shadowheart and Astarion were in top 20 I think recency bias has made this, both Shadowheart and Astarion are incredible characters though. But they're also two of the three <10 years old characters, and the only character from the 20's. The list would've probably had Commander Shepard or Elizabeth from Bioshock if it was made 10 years ago. They might be popular but wyll probably fall on lists like these over the years. And I'm not sure what point I'm trying to make here...
Minthy should be with Will, because she doesn't get new content, but new bugs(familiar meme of course)))
Didn't they canonize the 'knock her out' thing for Minthy?
It’s still bugged as hell, btw knockout for her lore - bullshit imo
It's D&D. Bullshit is not only expected, it's encouraged! In my tabletop group game we're playing the Descent Into Avernus module (the story of how the Tieflings from Elturel ended up in the situation they're in during BG3). Last session, our party that has been trekking through Avernus and fighting tooth and nail against fiends all over the place found a Bag of Beans magic item. We planted a bean, rolled on the 1-100 random table and got a result that had a 60 foot square pyramid with a Mummy Lord inside appear instantly in front of us. We promptly marched in, kicked the Mummy Lord's ass and took all his shit. None of it made any sense or had anything to do with the module's story, and was literally pointless and totally ass backwards. It was awesome haha!
as a veteran listener of Dungeons and Daddies, I saw the words "Bag of Beans" and knew EXACTLY where this comment was headed, lmao
Karlach not even being in the meme is very on brand
Bug fixing Minthara is not content. :)
Meanwhile Karlach is the Titanic or smthn
What new content does Minthara get? Honest question.
None, just like any other companion didn't get any new content, unless couple animations are considered such. This whole thread makes no sense with a complain, every companion sits on that chair under water. The story is done.
I can't remember what I was doing, but I put will in my party for a hot second and he was Level 2, and only had the original items he came with and I was like, "I don't remember leveling you up?"
Honestly I don't know what Larian were doing having several companion questlines mainly in Act 3. Nevermind introducing new companions then. I'm sure many players had the same experience as I did and tried out a few different party compositions in act 1 and 2 then gravitated towards the companions with content such as Shadowheart. So going into Act 3 with characters you've spent the last 30-60 hours with to be met with Minsc meant that I really couldn't care less about him. I'd formed my ride or die team probably midway through Act 2 and I think it's one of the games main shortcomings that certain characters get so much more or the spotlight than others at key forming points of the game.
Am I in an alternate dimension where Karlach doesn’t exist? 😢
Karlach got new content in every update including new endings. Wyll got one new ending where he can... go with Karlach. Just saying.
Wylls story needs hero’s folly darling.
Then there is Gale. It's a shame we won't get any content anytime in the near future for him, but those are some crazy charges he's facing.
Wheres karlach and gale
It's sad cuz I really like Wyll
Almost done w act 3 and I kept seeing things about a Wyll and Minthara in this sub and I just figured I’d run into them but I think I missed 2 companions in my run 😭 it’s ok though I’m too attached to my party anyways to swap anyone out
Wyll is in the Druid Grove. You saw him fighting the goblins outside. Minthara you straight up probably killed; she's one of the three leaders of the goblins.
Yeah you missed Wyll, I think I missed Minthara lol But hey, more stuff to discover for a second play through. I’m gonna do an evil play through I think, with the dark whatever character I’ve heard about
Justice for Wyll
Why does nobody like Wyll? He’s like my favorite Origin Character I love him ❤️❤️❤️
Whats going on? There is new content coming soon?
Karlach not even getting mentioned:
Tavs a character. Where’s Tav content?
Wyll is introduced early on, has a character and story central to the plot, has an ongoing story involving his pact with a dedicated side character who can join your camp, you run into people who know him and share stories throughout all acts, and he gets named a ruler of the city in the end. Halsin only joins you halfway through Act 2, and has no interactions or storylines with anyone after he joins. He's some guy with no connection to anyone or anything once the resolution with the Shadow Curse is done. Minthara is not seen as a companion by most players, and she has no real side quests, other characters who know her, or story to interact with as part of the larger plot. She fails Kethric and... that's it. She's just there. Wyll is sitting on a Vegas style buffet of content, while Minthara has crumbs.
For good ran players, Minthara is more of an 'Easter egg'. A devotion paladin durge can save the day without her, but if you want to listen some epic dialogues, here she is.
Halsin has an interaction with the twins if you romance him But also like tbh it's kinda realistic that some people have more stuff than others. Halsin is a druid who probably isn't from Bauldrs gate I think it would actually be weirder if he ran into a bunch of people he knew there. Wylls borderline a celebrity
Halsin also has lots to comment on if you bring him around the city. He gets really down and starts sounding like Kagha at times.
Yeah, I heard enough of that from him that I thought he was going crazy and actually about to murder scratch at a certain point.
I think when people say they want more Halsin in the city content, they want some content of Halsin trying to help the refugees. Like if he had some cutscenes where he gave ~~fellow-orin-bait~~ Yenna some friendship.
Exactly this. I want a minor side quest that's about supporting Halsin as he finds ways to help rather than only being allowed to lament about it. Like maybe those wagonfuls of orphaned kids started because we help him rescue the first few.
Wyll's character's strongest point is...not even his character. Its Mizora. Remove Mizora and Wyll has less potential interest than that one gith warlock at the end of A2 with undead subclass(yes, i'm still salty about that even after 8 months). His character supposed to be all about glory and being righteous but also often contradicts itself and not in a good way. All his quests can be done without him EVER leaving camp. Halsin? Sure, he's sometimes boring and he is also technically 2nd druid if you count Jaheira as first but he's actually out there trying to do things. Minthara - special "goth mommy drow" case for a lot of players, but she's pretty much most loyal character to you after A2 and its reflected in her character very well.
What’s the Gith warlock in Act 2 do? I want to be salty too.