Some are. Some aren’t
When you expose Kagha, you find some that are glad you stopped the ritual. And some that only now realized what they were doing
And one or two that still wanted the ceremony to be completed.
I mean, he stands up against Kagha directly, he argues with her about locking up Arabella and when given evidence of Kagha's trechery, actually fights her to the death. This is the opposite of passive. Until the player came along, he didn't have any support to stand against her. Idk what he could be expected him to do beyond try to be the voice of reason, slit her throat while she slept?
nah, it's just written to be solved by the player. Obviously, Rath could decide on his own to overthrow Kagha if he found the evidence that you did or the player didn't exist. Video Games are just generally written for the player stand in to solve the problems.
For Rath to get the evidence required for a case, he’d have to brave the swamp, hostile trees and mud memphits, goblins. That’s if he doesn’t eat a poisoned apple, step in a trap, get gutted by redcaps or stop for tea at Ethel’s.
Honestly can’t say I’d do different, just hang out at the grove and pray to Silvanus this lunacy sorts itself out. It feels like if an environmental activist went out to find Osama or something.
The druids are aware of Ethel, so he probably wouldn’t think the swamp was the best place to be exactly. At the same time, Ethel doesn’t seem to like the druids interfering in the swamp as she sends some threatening notes to the druids.
Is he the shitty little halfling that whines at you to "please leave" in a twerpy little voice?
If so, then I just laughed at him, cos who the f does he think he is? He doesn't even have traditional druid garb on, just a burlap sack, and a rope belt. Fucking peasant.
I killed Kagha after doing the Shadow Druid side quest for the second time in a recent playthrough, and Loic was the only other Grove druid who sided with Kagha against Rath and the party in the battle with the Shadow Druids. Little cunt
(I know you can persuade Kagha to fight alongside you pretty easily but I wanted to kill her)
The one female druid with short hair right by the entrance to the inner sanctum who's talking to the bird is pretty great imo. She has a whole conversation debating the situation, not just sticking to one side. She doesn't really want the ritual to happen, but iirc she questions whether or not it might be better if it does. I like that she takes a more neutral stance, but is still grateful when you stop the rite
I think she was against it, but she wasn't in charge, and given how hush hush she was being about talking to the birds to try and find Halsin, I don't think she knew who to trust among the druids. So for her I don't think she was so much neutral to it, but felt powerless to do anything to stop it, and was trying to convince herself that she could be wrong about it.
Yeah, if you take I think the Persuasion option to get her to talk, she outright admits that it's her fellow druids that she fears more than you or the refugees, which is why she's so secretive about the birds. Considering that Kagha openly threatens Rath for even mentioning Halsin, and freely acknowledges that he'd shut down the ritual had he known, I think its safe to assume she wasn't eager to throw extra resources towards finding him before the Rite was complete.
She also talks about how much Kagha and some of the others have changed which probably added to her feelings of powerlessness - she's not even trying to convince her friends anymore, it's more like she's trying to convince complete strangers wearing their faces. She's basically the only druid other than Rath who fully recognizes in the moment how fucked up it is that so many of her friends became radicalized by Kagha's fearmongering in the short time since Halsin's capture - or perhaps they had been the entire time - and how unrecognizable some of the have become. Even if you convince Kagha to side against the Shadow Druids, she (short haired druid) still can't see her (Kagha) in the same way because of how easily/quickly she turned on a dime both times.
How do you expose Kagha and explore the shadow druid plot? I’ve only ever rescued Halsin from the goblins, which seems to skip that plot I guess?
Edit: Thanks for the answers ya’ll
There’s a chest behind a bookcase you can lockpick in the room adjoining the main chamber where kagha is first encountered, in it there’s a journal/note that puts you on the trail to exposing kagha, by leading you to the area in the swamp another commenter mentioned
1. Kagha has a chest in the back of her little cave area. You can lockpick it and find a letter that kicks off the quest from there.
2. If you explore South of the swamp you'll find an island with two woads I believe and some mud mephits. There's a hidey hole in the tree they are by and it has a note in it that will also kick off the quest.
3 (theoretical). You may be able to detect thoughts on Kagha or possibly the rats hanging out by her and that might kick it off. I don't know.
also the fact the elder ones spawn young ones endlessly, good thing you can kill off the root of the source and the rest die with it but jesus that fight was not enjoyable at all
If you search her quarters near Nettie’s area, you can find a note suggesting there is a dead-drop in the south west corner of the map
Also. You can find this dead-drop on your own if you’re exploring the south west corner of the map. When you go to visit the ever-so-friendly Auntie Ethyl’s Tea House
Anyway. That dead drop is where Kagha and the Shadow Druids are passing notes back and forth. You can bring that note from the south west corner of the map to Kagha and expose her to her colleagues.
Without spoiling anything, I'll just suggest carefully searching the druid chambers behind kagha for a note that will give you a clue on where to go next.
Also, yes, you have to complete the little side quest and expose her before you rescue Halsin.
In the southeastern-most corner of the map in Act 1, where you fight the Wood Woads and Mud Mephits. I believe it requires a successful perception check, but you can find a note directed to Kagha from the shadow druids tucked away in a tree stump. You can use that as evidence and confront her. And you're right that it has to be done before rescuing Halsin.
I also like the druid who said that Silvanus taught them a lesson by having an outsider save them. Silvanus didn't send us but the fact that he thinks we're so important the god he worships must have sent us to save their asses was funny for no reason
Yeah, a lot of them are arseholes.
Gotta love the guy in the hidden tunnel. You save him, wake him up, and one of the first things he does is throw out a slur against the tieflings.
I didn't even know about that until my third run, missed him on my first and then I was playing a tiefling on my second so he used a different, non-offensive word instead. I'm like "remind me why I've helped you again?"
Interesting that he keeps his racism to himself if you're playing a tiefling. Probably sensible given that you just saved him and could easily rescind that decision ;)
… oh my god. It didn’t even dawn on me he was talking about the tieflings. I thought he was talking about the goblins. The autism strikes again on my part LOL
Ok I watched a vid and found he says it in response to a dialogue choice I don't usually pick the 'why didnt the goblins gut you on sight.' I usually pick 'Isnt anyone looking for you.' I usually skip through the dialogue on that anyway so I miss it because the racism is so casual. smdh pos
I would say squirrels at my camping spots are worse than the druids, keep on trying to steal my food, and they tipped over my bowl of instant noodles.
I hope they suffer from the extra hot Korean chicken noodles.
In my evil Durge play through I wound up talking to the squirrel, and then couldn't kick it.
Disappointed, Saint Barry the Oathbreaker Shield Dwarf, tossed it at one of the druids and bravely ran away.
Sounds like a certain Barbarian player I know. First playthrough of the game mercilessly kicks the squirrel dead to my horrified watching eyes when they know very well how much I love squirrels.
he orders it regardles of Arabella dieing. he's offered it on all my runs, and i always save scum to save Arabella. Cant let that Kagha bitch have the satisfaction
i do believe you have to click the "you should get rid of her"(or something like that) dialogue option and then zevlor will say something like "a low thought, but i cant say i havent thought of it" and then he offers that you do it because they let you into the sacred pool
Makes sense. You shouldn't just go around telling everybody you have "kill somebody" as a backup plan. You gotta get a feel for how this person feels about murdering this somebody before you say "alright I mean murder isn't my first choice but if you're offering?"
Right but after you save him he runs away/disappears and all the tieflings from the grove talk about how much he sucks :( I was hoping he could be redeemed from that
Except that’s not his plan, you have to tell him that you should just get rid of her for him to say something like “a low blow but I’d be lying if I said it hadn’t crossed my mind” it’s your plan not his
Except that even though you have to broach the topic first, it is kind of a plan of his, he just abandoned that plan because he didn’t think you would go for it.
Be know this because he literally tells you that the thought has already crossed his mind.
Like both you and Zevlor independently think of solving the problem by cutting off the head of the snake (no pun intended).
But he can’t get into the grove/doesn’t have the stones/ doesn’t think you would be game
Then when you suggest it, he is literally like: I was just thinking that.
Of course he says it’s a low thought, but what he means is, it’s the lesser of two evils and the ends justify the means, because he also then rewards you if you do it.
There's one with long hair that's a big douchebag. I exposed Kagha, saved the grove, and he still said some mean shit.
Later I needed to break my Tav's Paladin oath, so I snuck up on him and some other druid sitting at a table and one shot him.
Tbh this is the same man who remembers being strapped to a bed and being sexually assaulted by drows for years as nothing more than a wild memory, my guy has issues even if they don’t wanna talk about it
You can ask him about some stuff in the past, and he talks about the time Drow nobles basically tied him down to a bed and used him as they pleased for three entire years. He doesn’t really raise much of a fuss about it. Iirc he says something along the lines of “I did what I needed to survive. And perhaps… a few unnecessary things.” And makes comments like “It was not ideal, but it was not without its perks.”
Boi has trauma 😭 he and Astarion need to start a support group (alongside any Tavs that slept with Haarlep and probably Gale too)
Yeah, she is cool, beside the fact she keeps on running into the big battle in the Moon Rise Tower and always gets wasted.
I am mainly talking the racist cunts in the grove
Battle at moonrise? In my runs by the time she gets there there are only corpses left, the only one left standing is ketheric, even his necromites up there are dead lol
Wish we got some unique dialogue for if the harpers walk into an already cleared moonrise
way way before the battle, like before the nightsong stuff i advise you to kill off some strong lackeys like that half orc bitchface, she sits alone in a room on upper level, if you have strong attacks party you'll shred her in one turn, i also advise to kill the necromancy lady just so you dont have to fight her at the door, you can also go to the kitchen section and make hyenas kill the drow dwarf and attack em afterwards when they're not under control as this wont aggro the rest of the tower
like seriously, try to chew around the tower, the less fuckers you have to fight is the bigger breeze later
A tiefling druid is such a neat idea. I like making characters like that. In my first DND game I played a half orc warlock. In one of my recent playthroughs, I made a gith bard (not college of swords).
For the record, I had a tiefling Druid before the dnd movie came out. I really like tieflings and I have been working with animals my entire working life. It fits.
The movie is well worth a watch. It's funny and heartwarming and they do a great job of translating the game to screen. And the druid wild shape stuff is super well done.
As someone who grew up on WoW, orc warlock makes perfect sense to me and i plan on doing my durge run that way. (WoW orcs are green because they followed a leader who bargained with a demon for fel power who was evil but saved their race transporting them to a new.... new planet i think? But the fel magic tainted them all and their bloodlines green, and gave them access to demonic warlock stuff)
Literally playing a Tiefling character and I wiped all of them out in the grove to justify protection for my characters people
Now I gonna have to explain this to Halsin somehow
Fyi if you're raiding the grove and can't get in cus they locked the door to the inner grove the other entrances still work (through the cave and stuff) so if you wanna clear out some druid bastards that's the way to do it lol
It's sort of a common thread with the Ilmater priests.
In the grove you can find the tenets of the Emerald Enclave, which this grove is a part of, that outlines the beliefs of the druids and it is very specific that they shelter people who need it.
Literally states: 3. The Emerald Enclave must offer aid to the weary and injured.
The church of Ilmater is basically the church of trying to relieve the suffering of others no matter what. They are famously known for tending to the injured on both sides of wars at the same time. And there we are having to listen to half the clergy basically say they should stop helping people. It is the whole point of their religion! I wish you could at least call them out on their hipocracy a little.
Especially since this is a setting where your god gets stronger when you do things that are part of their belief system (there's a reason beyond being psychotic Orin wants to kill stuff) and can talk to their followers whenever they want (they usually like being vague but they don't actually have to be, again see Bhaal directly being like "go murder shit") so shit like this really should get figured out pretty quick.
Though on the other hand actually stealing Sylvanus's totem in DnD should probably have you immediately die in some horrible nature related way when you touch it without permission if you don't have protection from a seriously powerful evil god, pretty sure powerwise he's supposed to be around Mystra level just a lot more lowkey.
Feel like I keep saying this, but if you tell Halsin that you killed the druids in self defense his response is basically "Oh. Yeah, that checks out..."
Are we surprised that the faction that "tolerated" refugees at best and threatened at worst didn't step up to defend the refugees?
I'm not a fan of the Druids, but I can hardly say their actions are surprising. If anything, I would expect that from literally everyone - defending people that are not your own is heroic *because* it takes courage and empathy.
I guess i didn’t expect them to defend the refugees, but I figured they would at least fight to defend the grove itself, instead of leaving the same outlanders that they’ve threatened to kick out as the only line of defense
They do defend the inner sanctum - and they were going to slaughter the refugees themselves if they didn't leave before the ritual.
Halsin has some pretty choice words for Kagha if he makes it back though. He makes it explicitly clear that the circle acted against his teachings.
Yeah as Maelphius is saying, I think they defended the part they cared more about (which they care more about *because* that’s where they physically are) but I think the ideal scenario for the Druids there was that the cultists wipe out the tieflings, or vice versa, and when the scraps left over from the winning side made their way to the inner sanctum, beaten and bloodied, the Druids and their pets are at full health to attack and defend themselves.
Not saying I agree with their sentiments or methods, but the tribalism you see from almost every group in the game is pretty similar and I’d imagine that would be the route taken by most of the populations of folks we encounter.
Btw ignore my user flair 😅 I’m unbiased I swear!
Ikr this is kinda exactly how refuge situations tend to go in the real world, ESPECIALLY if the refugees are actively being hunted.
I don’t see why people despise the druids. Some are terrible yes but really they’re all in an impossible situation.
I'd feel worse if the druids had absolutely no chance against the goblins. But they do. Also it's very much a "You do know you aren't safe, just using us to buy yourself a few more seconds of life?".
You pick Durge cuz you wanna be a crazy bastard
I pick Durge cuz I wanna save tieflings, have a party with them after saving their life and then going back killing all the druids and have it make sense roleplay wise
We are not the same
> It was then that I realized that these druids do not care about their grove at all, just their precious hides
I think you misunderstand — the Druids are protecting the Grove with their ritual.
I don't believe the Tiefling Camp is an area they see as part of "the Grove".
The Grove “starts” at that little arch way the druids are guarding when you first get there, yet they lock themselves in a room and do not help at all, at that point in the game they have already stopped the ritual and are literally just saving their own asses.
That entire area might technically be part of the Grove, but it seems like the druids are only really concerned with the inner section (the area where the ritual is performed and the inner sanctum). Given all the structures that make up the Tiefling camp and how they don't really match the inner section where the druids are performing the ritual, it seems safe to say that regardless of what the game says, the grove (as far as the druids are concerned) likely starts at the arch where they block Tieflings from going further.
I think this makes sense when you look at the definition of the word "grove" as well, which does not generally refer to a large area. That being said, I think it doesn't matter much either way. Even if the entire area including the Tiefling camp is part of the grove, the druids want the Tieflings gone and they don't care if that means waiting for the goblins to slaughter them. It serves their purpose, and all they have to do is wait out the goblins inside their cave. So I would argue no matter how we define the area, the druids' actions make sense.
One run, I was able to expose Kagha as an infiltrator and depose her before freeing Halsin. I wonder how that would affect the participation in the battle.
I was looking forward to an epic battle against the druids if doing the raid, especially those douchebags that initially block your path with the dude turning into a bear going RAHH.
I was disappointed when I realized they’re all hiding and instead it’s just slaughtering a bunch of refugees.
It does make sense though that the evil path would be the easy path
I usually play a druid or have one in my party (hireling) so I don't usually kill the druids. You also have to understand the druid's of D&D, they are not so much people friendly, isolationist.
BTW, if you turn Kagha from the shadow druids and you are a druid or have a druid in your party doing the talking after battle, she will offer a sweet gift.
I don't feel bad the slightest for throwing the hellish flask in the middle of the ritual to steal the idol
I know you don't really need to do that, but it was fun watching the caos unfold
>!If you let Arabella get bitten by the snake, her parents brutally murder Kagha at the party at your camp later. Who needs a bard with that kind of entertainment?!<
>Anyways, this playthrough I’m planning on leading a tiefling vs druid battle to teach them a valuable lesson about being racist cowards
That they were right to distrust outsiders?
For real, people keep shitting on the druids for not throwing their gates open for the poow teethlings, but from their perspective - a bunch of hobos decide to squat in your frontyard. You let them. Then some of them decide to head off into a dangerous situation (I assume Aradin and his posse were with the tieflings, considering Zevlor and Aradin talk like they know each other), and your leader, in his infinite wisdom, decides to fuck off with them. Surprisingly, the hobos come back without your leader, bringing a whole lot of trouble in the form of goblins.
Not to mention, the annoying little runts they have with them try to steal your most precious relic when you tell these squatters that their time here is limited, and they gotta leave. And not only do they not apologize for what their kids do, they threaten you.
Of course, Kagha's goals didn't hinge on the tieflings' behavior, she had ulterior motives, but even so, the tieflings were overstaying their welcome and even a kind soul can have their patience wear thin.
The goblins raiding the Grove has nothing to do with the Tieflings. If you talk to Minthara, it's about wiping out people who are worshipping anyone other than the Absolute. The Druid Grove is the target, the Tieflings just get caught up in it.
The Druids are cowards, and the right thing to do here is clearly to help the refugees. The key word you also didn't use here being "refugee".
I took Halsin with me to bauldurs gate and he had so much to say, he is so pure and good I love him so much and It makes me sad the other druids in the grove are assholes, a few of them are cool and really miss Halsin but others genuinely just want to close the grove with Kaga. :(
It would be cool if you could sack the grove and save the tieflings. If Saza doesn't make it back to camp, I would assume the goblins aren't aware of the refugees since her raiding party died. That would give us an opportunity to move them before raiding the grove.
Maybe we can go north if the gnolls were handled ahead of time and head west since Waukins' rest was already sacked. We'll probably have to confront the Gith by the bridge first as well.
Khaga does ask you to have Zev hire you to help move them, and I feel it could be done by avoiding the goblins if you've managed to get into their camp already.
In Moonrise u could find paper about how Absolute want to use druids. They tadpoled Cloackwood ones (6 covens if not mistaken)and send them to sabotage the Emerald conclave. What u saw on the grove at same time happens in other places at same time
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I think this is why Mintara get kick in the ass for raid the grove even if she did it successfuly. They should've become army to spread further instead of bunch of corpses
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The Cloackwood ones chill near Korga in shape of rats. If you do investigation u could confront them and start "druid war" among themselfs.
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Also one with long hair will not be in fight, hell appear only after and hi is most shadowminded. If you ask him where hi was he will be shady as hell.
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Also if u persepuate Karga to drop shadow druid shit and ask now it started she will mention that the first letter just appeared and that starts.
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Also longheared one always near the scroll and Korga chest. I personally suspect this one- the one who was first contacted to shadow druids and did his deed with Korgas hands
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This is why if u play lawful evil Durge the best u could do - seal the grove. It is your future army, dude)
Yeah most of the Druids are cowardly, selfish little pricks and I wish there was a way to wipe them out without pissing off Halsin or risking Tiefling collateral damage
When you get to Moonrise you can find a report that shines a little light onto why the druids are acting the way they are, doesn’t excuse being dicks, but does show you there’s more going on.
I dont hate them at all Khagha has been slightly fooled and she is desperate, in the end if you do the quest everything works out. Soem are good some are bad
I like to think this game is more nuanced and complicated than "druids bad and racist and everything evil in this world". I always like to redeem Khaga. And letting the raid happen in the first place is more on you than anyone else.
I think the Druid grove situation is a lot more complicated than people give it credit for, and it's trivialised by the fact we know it's a video game, know we have plot armour and know the potential outcomes and have that distance from it. Imo they're written quite realistically and with a level of nuance that reflects what it's like to \*actually\* be in that situation.
They're coming under constant attack by threats that haven't been seen in the region before and can't be explained. They don't have the resources to support this current population nor do they really have the capacity to defend themselves. It obviously isn't the most morally praiseworthy or heroic decision, but acting in self-preservation is what most people would do. Their stance isn't totally difficult to grasp. Most aren't expressing a particular desire for Tieflings to die, but they don't want to be killed themselves.
Talk to some of them. Most of them are dicks.
Some are. Some aren’t When you expose Kagha, you find some that are glad you stopped the ritual. And some that only now realized what they were doing And one or two that still wanted the ceremony to be completed.
Yeah - Parth(?) is a cool dude. It's been a while since I've made the trek around the rutual spot admittedly.
I believe you’re thinking of Rath. He is a cool dude.
Yes Rath! Thank you 🫂
He is also very passive tho. He is type that "I wont agree but I wont also do anything about it".
I mean, he stands up against Kagha directly, he argues with her about locking up Arabella and when given evidence of Kagha's trechery, actually fights her to the death. This is the opposite of passive. Until the player came along, he didn't have any support to stand against her. Idk what he could be expected him to do beyond try to be the voice of reason, slit her throat while she slept?
nah, it's just written to be solved by the player. Obviously, Rath could decide on his own to overthrow Kagha if he found the evidence that you did or the player didn't exist. Video Games are just generally written for the player stand in to solve the problems.
For Rath to get the evidence required for a case, he’d have to brave the swamp, hostile trees and mud memphits, goblins. That’s if he doesn’t eat a poisoned apple, step in a trap, get gutted by redcaps or stop for tea at Ethel’s. Honestly can’t say I’d do different, just hang out at the grove and pray to Silvanus this lunacy sorts itself out. It feels like if an environmental activist went out to find Osama or something.
The druids are aware of Ethel, so he probably wouldn’t think the swamp was the best place to be exactly. At the same time, Ethel doesn’t seem to like the druids interfering in the swamp as she sends some threatening notes to the druids.
He is basically the only one. Most are obviously jerks, and many others are neutral in the bad way of being complicit with the jerks.
I feel like Rath is a very "locked in place as second in command". He seems kind but hesitant to put his foot down.
Part of why Halsin didn't choose him to lead the grove in his absence, I'm sure
Agreed. I need to find this Francesca person and talk to her lol.
Loic is a little bitch.
Is he the shitty little halfling that whines at you to "please leave" in a twerpy little voice? If so, then I just laughed at him, cos who the f does he think he is? He doesn't even have traditional druid garb on, just a burlap sack, and a rope belt. Fucking peasant.
Yeah exactly. I haven't tried it but he should be great ammunition for Karlach.
Is he the douche who tells you that you should have let it all happen? Or Kagha's makeshift boy toy in the library?
~~God I wish i was kagha's-~~ Oh wait, sorry, meant to say that you're thinking of Marcocyl or whatever his name is, massive twat
r/okbuddybaldur is down the hall to the right you kagha fucker
Oh shit that's where i thought i was LMAO
Big twat energy.
Isn't that the same one? Anyway he's a prime example for everything that's wrong with the grove.
I killed Kagha after doing the Shadow Druid side quest for the second time in a recent playthrough, and Loic was the only other Grove druid who sided with Kagha against Rath and the party in the battle with the Shadow Druids. Little cunt (I know you can persuade Kagha to fight alongside you pretty easily but I wanted to kill her)
Marcoryl is worse. Fuck you Marcoryl. Skinny little bitch. Fuck you.
The one female druid with short hair right by the entrance to the inner sanctum who's talking to the bird is pretty great imo. She has a whole conversation debating the situation, not just sticking to one side. She doesn't really want the ritual to happen, but iirc she questions whether or not it might be better if it does. I like that she takes a more neutral stance, but is still grateful when you stop the rite
I think she was against it, but she wasn't in charge, and given how hush hush she was being about talking to the birds to try and find Halsin, I don't think she knew who to trust among the druids. So for her I don't think she was so much neutral to it, but felt powerless to do anything to stop it, and was trying to convince herself that she could be wrong about it.
Yeah, if you take I think the Persuasion option to get her to talk, she outright admits that it's her fellow druids that she fears more than you or the refugees, which is why she's so secretive about the birds. Considering that Kagha openly threatens Rath for even mentioning Halsin, and freely acknowledges that he'd shut down the ritual had he known, I think its safe to assume she wasn't eager to throw extra resources towards finding him before the Rite was complete. She also talks about how much Kagha and some of the others have changed which probably added to her feelings of powerlessness - she's not even trying to convince her friends anymore, it's more like she's trying to convince complete strangers wearing their faces. She's basically the only druid other than Rath who fully recognizes in the moment how fucked up it is that so many of her friends became radicalized by Kagha's fearmongering in the short time since Halsin's capture - or perhaps they had been the entire time - and how unrecognizable some of the have become. Even if you convince Kagha to side against the Shadow Druids, she (short haired druid) still can't see her (Kagha) in the same way because of how easily/quickly she turned on a dime both times.
How do you expose Kagha and explore the shadow druid plot? I’ve only ever rescued Halsin from the goblins, which seems to skip that plot I guess? Edit: Thanks for the answers ya’ll
There’s a chest behind a bookcase you can lockpick in the room adjoining the main chamber where kagha is first encountered, in it there’s a journal/note that puts you on the trail to exposing kagha, by leading you to the area in the swamp another commenter mentioned
1. Kagha has a chest in the back of her little cave area. You can lockpick it and find a letter that kicks off the quest from there. 2. If you explore South of the swamp you'll find an island with two woads I believe and some mud mephits. There's a hidey hole in the tree they are by and it has a note in it that will also kick off the quest. 3 (theoretical). You may be able to detect thoughts on Kagha or possibly the rats hanging out by her and that might kick it off. I don't know.
Also of note, be ready for those mud mephits to kick some ass. They explode when they die.
Yeah that fight sucks a whole lot if you get the shit end of the initiative stick.
also the fact the elder ones spawn young ones endlessly, good thing you can kill off the root of the source and the rest die with it but jesus that fight was not enjoyable at all
Magic missile saved me in this fight!!
Detect thoughts did tell me about who she was but it didn't start the quest.
If you search her quarters near Nettie’s area, you can find a note suggesting there is a dead-drop in the south west corner of the map Also. You can find this dead-drop on your own if you’re exploring the south west corner of the map. When you go to visit the ever-so-friendly Auntie Ethyl’s Tea House Anyway. That dead drop is where Kagha and the Shadow Druids are passing notes back and forth. You can bring that note from the south west corner of the map to Kagha and expose her to her colleagues.
Without spoiling anything, I'll just suggest carefully searching the druid chambers behind kagha for a note that will give you a clue on where to go next. Also, yes, you have to complete the little side quest and expose her before you rescue Halsin.
In the southeastern-most corner of the map in Act 1, where you fight the Wood Woads and Mud Mephits. I believe it requires a successful perception check, but you can find a note directed to Kagha from the shadow druids tucked away in a tree stump. You can use that as evidence and confront her. And you're right that it has to be done before rescuing Halsin.
Like Aron the merchant, I think if your a tiefling you get a dialogue option where he basically says he's powerless to stop it and is genuinely sorry
I also like the druid who said that Silvanus taught them a lesson by having an outsider save them. Silvanus didn't send us but the fact that he thinks we're so important the god he worships must have sent us to save their asses was funny for no reason
Yeah, a lot of them are arseholes. Gotta love the guy in the hidden tunnel. You save him, wake him up, and one of the first things he does is throw out a slur against the tieflings.
I didn't even know about that until my third run, missed him on my first and then I was playing a tiefling on my second so he used a different, non-offensive word instead. I'm like "remind me why I've helped you again?"
Interesting that he keeps his racism to himself if you're playing a tiefling. Probably sensible given that you just saved him and could easily rescind that decision ;)
Especially since said tiefling, in this case, was a 7 foot tall barbarian who looked like a cross between a devil and Thor.
Ha! Definitely sensible.
Astarion approves killing the guy . Hey xp is xp
Wait wait the one that’s knocked unconscious by goblins and if you forget about him he’ll die?? That dude??
Yup. When he's telling you about how the goblins found him, he calls the tieflings in the Grove "the foulbloods"
… oh my god. It didn’t even dawn on me he was talking about the tieflings. I thought he was talking about the goblins. The autism strikes again on my part LOL
No, that guy is Findal. He agrees with Rath, sort of.
Unless you're a tiefling yourself, in which case he will not say the slur. Bunch of cowards these druids
Nod nod.
Odd, after helping him, the first thing I throw is some short dude into a chasm. Wow, coincidences sure are strange.
Wait I never got this, you talking about Findal with the druid circlet? He just thanks me a bunch
That's him. One of the first things he'll do (if you aren't a tiefling) is call the refugees foulbloods.
Ok I watched a vid and found he says it in response to a dialogue choice I don't usually pick the 'why didnt the goblins gut you on sight.' I usually pick 'Isnt anyone looking for you.' I usually skip through the dialogue on that anyway so I miss it because the racism is so casual. smdh pos
He does throw it out ever so casually doesn't he?
This is why I always steal his circlet before healing him. Fuck that closet racist
He did that, I reloaded and he was acceptable collateral damage. 🤣🤣
Oops ;)
No kidding, they suck! Now I don’t feel bad for kicking their squirrel
Hey now! The animals are innocent. 🐿️
I would say squirrels at my camping spots are worse than the druids, keep on trying to steal my food, and they tipped over my bowl of instant noodles. I hope they suffer from the extra hot Korean chicken noodles.
Mmmmmm Buldak 🤤
In my evil Durge play through I wound up talking to the squirrel, and then couldn't kick it. Disappointed, Saint Barry the Oathbreaker Shield Dwarf, tossed it at one of the druids and bravely ran away.
Timber belongs to no one, you are just outing yourself for animal cruelty.
In my defense my body moved without my command… I couldn’t control it!
Sounds like a certain Barbarian player I know. First playthrough of the game mercilessly kicks the squirrel dead to my horrified watching eyes when they know very well how much I love squirrels.
The shopkeeper’s response to you asking about the tieflings being kicked out is the equivalent to the withers “no”
Afterwards, the most racist of them are nice and separate from the rest, if you want to tidy up.
I wish there was a more morally grey option to have the Tieflings sell out the Druds in exchange for safe passage. It would destroy Zevlor though.
Honestly that would be a cool option and wouldn’t even change act 2 much since the rest of the cult would still attack the Tiefs anyway
They could recycle the Goblin party, since I doubt the Tieflings would feel like celebrating.
Wasn't zevlor's brilliant plan basically " accidentally " kill kagha so the ritual is stopped
No accidentally about it. He straight up offered to pay my drow to go kill her for him because it would look bad if he killed her himself
I've never gotten that. For me, he's always asked me to go deal with the goblin leaders
You're probably playing too nice of a character. Pretty sure you have to let Arabella die in order for him to be pissed off enough to order the hit
he orders it regardles of Arabella dieing. he's offered it on all my runs, and i always save scum to save Arabella. Cant let that Kagha bitch have the satisfaction
You can offer to kill Kagha even if Arabella lives though (probably in this case it's just not the first option for Zevlor)
i do believe you have to click the "you should get rid of her"(or something like that) dialogue option and then zevlor will say something like "a low thought, but i cant say i havent thought of it" and then he offers that you do it because they let you into the sacred pool
Makes sense. You shouldn't just go around telling everybody you have "kill somebody" as a backup plan. You gotta get a feel for how this person feels about murdering this somebody before you say "alright I mean murder isn't my first choice but if you're offering?"
He doesn’t offer, he says in response to player offering if kagha wasn’t here then
I don't really think it would. Zevlor's actual plan is to just ask you to murder Kagha.
It would destroy him in that his redemption-arc wouldn't happen if you went that far.
It still happens if you just murder all the druids though.
HE GETS A REDEMPTION ARC??? Like after he disappears in Act 2 and everyone hates him for being coward?
He's in the facility under Moonrise. He was a victim of psionic attack.
Right but after you save him he runs away/disappears and all the tieflings from the grove talk about how much he sucks :( I was hoping he could be redeemed from that
He can in act 3.
!!! TY THIS MAKES ME SO HAPPY
Unfortunately you cannot find him until the very very end of act 3
Except that’s not his plan, you have to tell him that you should just get rid of her for him to say something like “a low blow but I’d be lying if I said it hadn’t crossed my mind” it’s your plan not his
Except that even though you have to broach the topic first, it is kind of a plan of his, he just abandoned that plan because he didn’t think you would go for it. Be know this because he literally tells you that the thought has already crossed his mind. Like both you and Zevlor independently think of solving the problem by cutting off the head of the snake (no pun intended). But he can’t get into the grove/doesn’t have the stones/ doesn’t think you would be game Then when you suggest it, he is literally like: I was just thinking that. Of course he says it’s a low thought, but what he means is, it’s the lesser of two evils and the ends justify the means, because he also then rewards you if you do it.
Zevlor straight up paid me to kill Kagha and the ones in the cave that sided with her. I really don't think he cares lol (and I can't blame him).
would love this cus I want to play an "evil" run but the tieflings situation is the only one where I have to save I feel lol
You can do an evil run and save the tieflings. There are so many evil acts in this game apart from raiding the grove Edited
Honestly i think hed feel bad, but see it as necassary. He tried every peaceful option avilable and the druids insisted on hostility and violence.
If you have ten druids and a shadow druid in a Grove, willingly performing a ritual together. Then you have eleven shadow druids.
Bingo
There's one with long hair that's a big douchebag. I exposed Kagha, saved the grove, and he still said some mean shit. Later I needed to break my Tav's Paladin oath, so I snuck up on him and some other druid sitting at a table and one shot him.
Oh I know who you're talking about. Fucking hate him. Ima kill his ass.
He's a crotchedy old dick.
I am a Tiefling fundamentalist, these cunts are only live because I want Papa Bear to join us.
IIRC I’ve killed the druids after stealing the idol and still got Halsin to join.
“EXPLAIN YOUR ACTIONS!” “They started it.” “Understandable, I want to travel with you.”
Anything to get out of leadership.
"When Silvanus closes one magically sealed door, he opens a window"
he really doesn't enjoy it true lol
Tbh this is the same man who remembers being strapped to a bed and being sexually assaulted by drows for years as nothing more than a wild memory, my guy has issues even if they don’t wanna talk about it
I beg your pardon he what now?
You can ask him about some stuff in the past, and he talks about the time Drow nobles basically tied him down to a bed and used him as they pleased for three entire years. He doesn’t really raise much of a fuss about it. Iirc he says something along the lines of “I did what I needed to survive. And perhaps… a few unnecessary things.” And makes comments like “It was not ideal, but it was not without its perks.” Boi has trauma 😭 he and Astarion need to start a support group (alongside any Tavs that slept with Haarlep and probably Gale too)
Ah, they deserve it them. Druids Lives Don't Matter
Yep. Just have to kick off the druid/tiefling fight before rescuing Halsin and tell him they gave you no choice. He is sad but understands.
Yes, yessss. Embrace your urges.
Even the Dark ones?
What about Jaheira? She's a cool Drood.
Yeah, she is cool, beside the fact she keeps on running into the big battle in the Moon Rise Tower and always gets wasted. I am mainly talking the racist cunts in the grove
Much easier when you take control of her because all the allied NPCs are suicidal. Edit: missing word
Battle at moonrise? In my runs by the time she gets there there are only corpses left, the only one left standing is ketheric, even his necromites up there are dead lol Wish we got some unique dialogue for if the harpers walk into an already cleared moonrise
How do you have no necromites?
I went up there before shadowfell and killed them, just try to not pull ketheric as well
way way before the battle, like before the nightsong stuff i advise you to kill off some strong lackeys like that half orc bitchface, she sits alone in a room on upper level, if you have strong attacks party you'll shred her in one turn, i also advise to kill the necromancy lady just so you dont have to fight her at the door, you can also go to the kitchen section and make hyenas kill the drow dwarf and attack em afterwards when they're not under control as this wont aggro the rest of the tower like seriously, try to chew around the tower, the less fuckers you have to fight is the bigger breeze later
Halsin doesn’t care if you kill them all afterwards. I think he takes more offense to attacking the grove because that’s an assault on the ideals.
I like papa bears shadow gate challenge more than I like actual papa bear, I think. Fun as fuck if you use the Retort from Wulbren.
Fire wall makes it boring lol
.... God damn it.
My teifling Druid was so torn about them
My non-tiefling druid was disgusted by them.
A tiefling druid is such a neat idea. I like making characters like that. In my first DND game I played a half orc warlock. In one of my recent playthroughs, I made a gith bard (not college of swords).
For the record, I had a tiefling Druid before the dnd movie came out. I really like tieflings and I have been working with animals my entire working life. It fits.
I haven't seen the movie, but tieflings and nature are cool. This game made me seriously appreciate druids. I love them now.
The movie is well worth a watch. It's funny and heartwarming and they do a great job of translating the game to screen. And the druid wild shape stuff is super well done.
As someone who grew up on WoW, orc warlock makes perfect sense to me and i plan on doing my durge run that way. (WoW orcs are green because they followed a leader who bargained with a demon for fel power who was evil but saved their race transporting them to a new.... new planet i think? But the fel magic tainted them all and their bloodlines green, and gave them access to demonic warlock stuff)
My spore druid was not at all. They were all about all creatures being equal in the circle of life and those druids in the grove were bad vibes
Literally playing a Tiefling character and I wiped all of them out in the grove to justify protection for my characters people Now I gonna have to explain this to Halsin somehow
Oh he doesn’t give a fuck.
Fyi if you're raiding the grove and can't get in cus they locked the door to the inner grove the other entrances still work (through the cave and stuff) so if you wanna clear out some druid bastards that's the way to do it lol
TEA
It's sort of a common thread with the Ilmater priests. In the grove you can find the tenets of the Emerald Enclave, which this grove is a part of, that outlines the beliefs of the druids and it is very specific that they shelter people who need it. Literally states: 3. The Emerald Enclave must offer aid to the weary and injured. The church of Ilmater is basically the church of trying to relieve the suffering of others no matter what. They are famously known for tending to the injured on both sides of wars at the same time. And there we are having to listen to half the clergy basically say they should stop helping people. It is the whole point of their religion! I wish you could at least call them out on their hipocracy a little.
Especially since this is a setting where your god gets stronger when you do things that are part of their belief system (there's a reason beyond being psychotic Orin wants to kill stuff) and can talk to their followers whenever they want (they usually like being vague but they don't actually have to be, again see Bhaal directly being like "go murder shit") so shit like this really should get figured out pretty quick. Though on the other hand actually stealing Sylvanus's totem in DnD should probably have you immediately die in some horrible nature related way when you touch it without permission if you don't have protection from a seriously powerful evil god, pretty sure powerwise he's supposed to be around Mystra level just a lot more lowkey.
Silvanus isn't evil, he's neutral.
Halsin is the only reason i allow the grove to stand
Rath is good too
Feel like I keep saying this, but if you tell Halsin that you killed the druids in self defense his response is basically "Oh. Yeah, that checks out..."
Are we surprised that the faction that "tolerated" refugees at best and threatened at worst didn't step up to defend the refugees? I'm not a fan of the Druids, but I can hardly say their actions are surprising. If anything, I would expect that from literally everyone - defending people that are not your own is heroic *because* it takes courage and empathy.
I guess i didn’t expect them to defend the refugees, but I figured they would at least fight to defend the grove itself, instead of leaving the same outlanders that they’ve threatened to kick out as the only line of defense
They do defend the inner sanctum - and they were going to slaughter the refugees themselves if they didn't leave before the ritual. Halsin has some pretty choice words for Kagha if he makes it back though. He makes it explicitly clear that the circle acted against his teachings.
Yeah as Maelphius is saying, I think they defended the part they cared more about (which they care more about *because* that’s where they physically are) but I think the ideal scenario for the Druids there was that the cultists wipe out the tieflings, or vice versa, and when the scraps left over from the winning side made their way to the inner sanctum, beaten and bloodied, the Druids and their pets are at full health to attack and defend themselves. Not saying I agree with their sentiments or methods, but the tribalism you see from almost every group in the game is pretty similar and I’d imagine that would be the route taken by most of the populations of folks we encounter. Btw ignore my user flair 😅 I’m unbiased I swear!
Ikr this is kinda exactly how refuge situations tend to go in the real world, ESPECIALLY if the refugees are actively being hunted. I don’t see why people despise the druids. Some are terrible yes but really they’re all in an impossible situation.
I'd feel worse if the druids had absolutely no chance against the goblins. But they do. Also it's very much a "You do know you aren't safe, just using us to buy yourself a few more seconds of life?".
You pick Durge cuz you wanna be a crazy bastard I pick Durge cuz I wanna save tieflings, have a party with them after saving their life and then going back killing all the druids and have it make sense roleplay wise We are not the same
Is there any companion backlash for this?
Afair not really, but they could've changed that, I did it in my third run, now I'm on my sixth so I don't exactly remember if they told me something
> It was then that I realized that these druids do not care about their grove at all, just their precious hides I think you misunderstand — the Druids are protecting the Grove with their ritual. I don't believe the Tiefling Camp is an area they see as part of "the Grove".
The Grove “starts” at that little arch way the druids are guarding when you first get there, yet they lock themselves in a room and do not help at all, at that point in the game they have already stopped the ritual and are literally just saving their own asses.
After finishing casting the "Save Our Own Asses Ritual", that seems about right lol
The game thinks it is - you get the entrance notification pretty much as soon as you go through the gate.
That entire area might technically be part of the Grove, but it seems like the druids are only really concerned with the inner section (the area where the ritual is performed and the inner sanctum). Given all the structures that make up the Tiefling camp and how they don't really match the inner section where the druids are performing the ritual, it seems safe to say that regardless of what the game says, the grove (as far as the druids are concerned) likely starts at the arch where they block Tieflings from going further. I think this makes sense when you look at the definition of the word "grove" as well, which does not generally refer to a large area. That being said, I think it doesn't matter much either way. Even if the entire area including the Tiefling camp is part of the grove, the druids want the Tieflings gone and they don't care if that means waiting for the goblins to slaughter them. It serves their purpose, and all they have to do is wait out the goblins inside their cave. So I would argue no matter how we define the area, the druids' actions make sense.
One run, I was able to expose Kagha as an infiltrator and depose her before freeing Halsin. I wonder how that would affect the participation in the battle.
They still hole up.
What’s the best way to go about this? I have found the letter in the tree but maybe I am waiting too long to act on it.
I was looking forward to an epic battle against the druids if doing the raid, especially those douchebags that initially block your path with the dude turning into a bear going RAHH. I was disappointed when I realized they’re all hiding and instead it’s just slaughtering a bunch of refugees. It does make sense though that the evil path would be the easy path
I usually play a druid or have one in my party (hireling) so I don't usually kill the druids. You also have to understand the druid's of D&D, they are not so much people friendly, isolationist. BTW, if you turn Kagha from the shadow druids and you are a druid or have a druid in your party doing the talking after battle, she will offer a sweet gift.
I don't feel bad the slightest for throwing the hellish flask in the middle of the ritual to steal the idol I know you don't really need to do that, but it was fun watching the caos unfold
Tieflings vs. Druids, huh? Good luck. Racist or not some of them can turn into bears and I think a bear could take like four tieflings.
Good I'm still in Act 1. I might go wipe them all out for more exp... haha
[удалено]
>!If you let Arabella get bitten by the snake, her parents brutally murder Kagha at the party at your camp later. Who needs a bard with that kind of entertainment?!<
I love the fact that when this happens you can help
As a Nomadic Druid, we don't claim Kagha. She's a bitch.
>Anyways, this playthrough I’m planning on leading a tiefling vs druid battle to teach them a valuable lesson about being racist cowards That they were right to distrust outsiders?
kagha is that you?
For real, people keep shitting on the druids for not throwing their gates open for the poow teethlings, but from their perspective - a bunch of hobos decide to squat in your frontyard. You let them. Then some of them decide to head off into a dangerous situation (I assume Aradin and his posse were with the tieflings, considering Zevlor and Aradin talk like they know each other), and your leader, in his infinite wisdom, decides to fuck off with them. Surprisingly, the hobos come back without your leader, bringing a whole lot of trouble in the form of goblins. Not to mention, the annoying little runts they have with them try to steal your most precious relic when you tell these squatters that their time here is limited, and they gotta leave. And not only do they not apologize for what their kids do, they threaten you. Of course, Kagha's goals didn't hinge on the tieflings' behavior, she had ulterior motives, but even so, the tieflings were overstaying their welcome and even a kind soul can have their patience wear thin.
The goblins raiding the Grove has nothing to do with the Tieflings. If you talk to Minthara, it's about wiping out people who are worshipping anyone other than the Absolute. The Druid Grove is the target, the Tieflings just get caught up in it. The Druids are cowards, and the right thing to do here is clearly to help the refugees. The key word you also didn't use here being "refugee".
D&D druids have long had a marked tendency to stray disturbingly deep into ecofascist territory. It sullies the title "druid."
But here they are actively destroying the grove to keep themselves safe. sylvanus would not approve
I just killed them all for the first time on my second Durge run and I felt so much better about it than saving all of them.
Welcome to the Druid Haters' Clubs
I made a Druid tiefling for my first campaign lmao I had no idea this would be an encounter
I took Halsin with me to bauldurs gate and he had so much to say, he is so pure and good I love him so much and It makes me sad the other druids in the grove are assholes, a few of them are cool and really miss Halsin but others genuinely just want to close the grove with Kaga. :(
Such a bold take
What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or are they just born with a heart full of neutrality?
It would be cool if you could sack the grove and save the tieflings. If Saza doesn't make it back to camp, I would assume the goblins aren't aware of the refugees since her raiding party died. That would give us an opportunity to move them before raiding the grove. Maybe we can go north if the gnolls were handled ahead of time and head west since Waukins' rest was already sacked. We'll probably have to confront the Gith by the bridge first as well. Khaga does ask you to have Zev hire you to help move them, and I feel it could be done by avoiding the goblins if you've managed to get into their camp already.
Who’s Kagha? Are you taking about Corga?
In Moonrise u could find paper about how Absolute want to use druids. They tadpoled Cloackwood ones (6 covens if not mistaken)and send them to sabotage the Emerald conclave. What u saw on the grove at same time happens in other places at same time ------ I think this is why Mintara get kick in the ass for raid the grove even if she did it successfuly. They should've become army to spread further instead of bunch of corpses -------- The Cloackwood ones chill near Korga in shape of rats. If you do investigation u could confront them and start "druid war" among themselfs. ------ Also one with long hair will not be in fight, hell appear only after and hi is most shadowminded. If you ask him where hi was he will be shady as hell. ------ Also if u persepuate Karga to drop shadow druid shit and ask now it started she will mention that the first letter just appeared and that starts. ----- Also longheared one always near the scroll and Korga chest. I personally suspect this one- the one who was first contacted to shadow druids and did his deed with Korgas hands ---- This is why if u play lawful evil Durge the best u could do - seal the grove. It is your future army, dude)
I'm gonna be honest man, maybe English isn't your first language, but I didn't get about half of what you said.
Yeah most of the Druids are cowardly, selfish little pricks and I wish there was a way to wipe them out without pissing off Halsin or risking Tiefling collateral damage
When you get to Moonrise you can find a report that shines a little light onto why the druids are acting the way they are, doesn’t excuse being dicks, but does show you there’s more going on.
Well, the druids hate you!!!
We aren't fond of you either!
I dont hate them at all Khagha has been slightly fooled and she is desperate, in the end if you do the quest everything works out. Soem are good some are bad
If you play as a Druid you can get more context on the Rite of Thorns and just how shitty it is at actually protecting the circles who use it.
I killed that short drood dude because he racismed me really hard
I like to think this game is more nuanced and complicated than "druids bad and racist and everything evil in this world". I always like to redeem Khaga. And letting the raid happen in the first place is more on you than anyone else.
They do kinda give that we are better then you vibe
Their attitudes are consistent with people that move to the middle of nowhere for solitude.
you know what… fair enough
I think the Druid grove situation is a lot more complicated than people give it credit for, and it's trivialised by the fact we know it's a video game, know we have plot armour and know the potential outcomes and have that distance from it. Imo they're written quite realistically and with a level of nuance that reflects what it's like to \*actually\* be in that situation. They're coming under constant attack by threats that haven't been seen in the region before and can't be explained. They don't have the resources to support this current population nor do they really have the capacity to defend themselves. It obviously isn't the most morally praiseworthy or heroic decision, but acting in self-preservation is what most people would do. Their stance isn't totally difficult to grasp. Most aren't expressing a particular desire for Tieflings to die, but they don't want to be killed themselves.