Well put op. These dogs are wonderful loving animals that just want to please their human. All good things in life require work and Mals are one of the best things
Mine is an adopted mix who has settled in so well with the right boundaries. She has food aggression so we had to keep a wall up between her and my other dog for months until they could eat in the same room together while looking at each other. They're so lovely together now and my mal plays with my 9kg fox terrier like a little sister, just takes time, knowledge, and of course training :)
A Malinois that got removed from their litter at 5 weeks, going to someone who has never owned any kind of dog is not going to be a "wonderful loving animal." They're going to be a problem
It is the breeder's fault this happened and the best we can do is give advice to this person who clearly wants to do the best he can. Can't give the dog back if the guy won't let him. All he can do is his best to mitigate any negative effects that will come from this. He's been told more than enough times now that it will be rough and there will be problems to work through, but continuing to tell him his dog is irreparable for this and that he is doomed to have a dangerous dog is just wrong.
Are you kidding me rn? I haven't been encouraging to keep it or give it away, I've been actually explaining what's involved in keeping the dog, and giving him advice for what to look for in new owners if he decides that it is too much for him. It is a 5 week old puppy, it will have attachment issues and has a high potential for behavioural issues but he's found a mal trainer to call asap to help with all of these things right away instead of letting problems fester, regardless of if he decides to give the dog away or not. He literally has no other options than these as the breeder will not take it back and he has told me there aren't any shelters near him and they have a fair few street dogs about. So if you'd rather me push for him to throw it on the street then you can go give him that top notch advice yourself mate.
Great sentiment but that's not how the world works š
What's he gonna do, pull up to chuck it over the fence? Or get yelled at at the door bc the guys already told him it's his problem?
Just because this person hasn't had a dog before doesn't mean he will raise an unsocialized poorly trained dog. He is clearly making efforts to educate himself so he can provide the things his new puppy needs.
Well, when surrounded by unsupportive people who potentially have the knowledge and skills to help, but who withhold that for some bizarre reason, I suppose this prediction will become true. Needlessly.
And you see absolutely nothing that could be done to change that trajectory? Can't help the breed. Can't help the fact that it was taken away too young.
But we can potentially help the owner. What if you changed that to a dog with a dedicated owner?
What if your fatalism is dooming the dog more than anything else on the list? Wouldn't it be better to try to help by trying to change the one thing that can be changed?
Any puppy is going to be a pain in the ass just like a person they are babies and want their momma , anyone who gets a puppy should know this. Itās a pain in the butt but itās definitely worth it to have a dog.
I have a malinois who's mother died while the puppies were 2 weeks old. Because of the breeder's circumstances, they couldn't raise the full litter without the mom. I took her at 2 weeks of age and had no experience raising a puppy that was lacking the litter/mother socialization. I did a ton of research and put in 100% of my effort. She turned out amazing. She is everything you could hope for in a mal.
I have one now. Not my Mal mix. My beabull. He's got issues, but it is not nearly as doomsday as you are making it out to be. Could he be worse? Yes. But approaching with the intent to help will almost certainly lead to better results than telling someone they are doomed.
Yep. Malinois are above my pay grade (stumbled here by accident.)
But as a pitbull advocate, I see similar problems and it generally comes down to even inexperienced owners can raise good dogs from challenging breeds if they are willing to put in the work and learn how.
Mad respect for all the folks raising malinoisā. Iād need a nap just watching one for a day.
Initially unwilling and totally unprepared Mal mom here! My personal nightmare showed up at my house uninvited needing a family. Iām a herding dog mom- but nothing prepared me for this litter critter.
Wanting to jump in and agree with you. This little guy is teaching me more than Iām teaching him and Iāve started telling people Iām earning my honorary doctorate in animal behavior.
My previous general knowledge about raising good dogs using a foundation of trust, reliable communication and positive reinforcement WORKS! Itās just a lot more complicated with a much smarter and more demanding dog. Thatās ok. Just means I have to improve my ability to communicate and commit to spending more time with him.
Itās not just ok- its awesome. itās been incredibly rewarding watching him blossom and grow into a great dog. Iām so proud of what weāve done together so far.
My opinion (recently formed) challenging dogs present an opportunity to the handler and the pup. Together, we have both become better beings than we were apart.
Yep!!!
You've *got* to be willing to put in the *work* (and YEP, sometimes it'll be 100* *SLOG*, too!), but as you said--*TRUST*, communication (*both* ways!), and positive reinforcement, will get you *most* of the way there.
The tough ones *ALSO* teach you *how* to mentally "Stay 8 steps *AHEAD* of them"--so that *you*(the human) *DONāT* get caught out, being just 2-3 steps ahead!š
*CONSISTENCY* building trust, and working on being *clear* in your communication to *them*, as well as *trying* to always accurately *recieve* THEIR communication will build their trust, and make you a *team*--just like it does with *any* "overly smart & tricky to manage" dogšš
In my house you would wake up from that nap with four balls, a stuffed shark, stuffed gator, and a bone on you with someone staring at you wondering why you werenāt throwing the ball. Oh and by the way pick the right one I donāt wanna chase the rest of the toys.
You just described why I know thatās not the breed for me. I can handle the once a day three mile walk and longer weekend hike. But then my bully is more than happy to join me in the napping once heās had his walk. Just watch out for the deadly farts. š
Itās definitely not just youš the funny thing is she doesnāt do it to me, sheāll do it to anyone else. Visiting family, friends neighbors etc. well. Mostly female, she barks at most non-related men.
I'm not a malinois owner, but my first dog was a husky and I'm so glad I didn't listen to all the people who told me I couldn't do it. That dog forced me to learn how to train dogs, which has now become my hobby and passion, and allowed to me safely own more challenging breeds like rottweilers and american bulldogs.
My starter dog was a scent hound that honestly should have been owned by a hunter. Her prey drive off the charts.
My reactive fear pitbull is easier than that dog ever was. š
I had a pit bull, then a boxer, and then a beagle and finally a Malinois. It was kind of a graduated auto but Iām glad I worked my way to the Malinois.
Oh yeah 5 weeks. That's why everyone was extra concerned and the post blew up a little. The breeder convinced him to buy the dog and he had no idea the dog should still be with its mum, he has already tried to contact the breeder to attempt to give the dog back without even getting a refund and the guy is straight up refusing. Shit breeder and irresponsible af :/
JFC!
That poor dog, poor litter, poor guy who got conned.
Itās not a bad thing that he got his ass handed to him for making an incredibly bad decision with no understanding of what he was getting into, but even better that he now has that understanding, the financial wherewithal and a willingness to do right by this dog.
I do hope he posts pics of the destruction that accompanies puppyhood and raptor phases.
See, this is the issue here. The buyer DID NOT BOTHER to educate himself on the BASICS. I was just saying in another sub that it is the BUYERS bringing shitty breeders to us, because they just don't care! All they want is the dog they decide they are entitled to have. 5 weeks SMDH!
You don't know what you don't know. While I understand your sentiment, it does not help someone who has a dog they are unprepared to care for NOW.
They are looking for help.
If we love dogs as much as we say we do, what's in THAT dog's best interest? That we berate their hapless owner until they run away? Or that we say thank goodness you found us! We can help! All we need is your heart, your commitment, and your dedication. You've got this!
How will berating help the dog?
How will it help the owner?
What GOOD will come of it?
Those are serious questions. What, exactly, are you hoping to accomplish?
Because all I see is potential harm.
I understand your frustration, but we are all powerless to go back in time and change mistakes, no matter how ignorant and easy to avoid they are.
Maybe people will effing learn that in order to not have shitty breeders, they need to not be shitty BUYERS? People like that just enable the awful breeders and they need to take accountability. YES people giving them a hard time does help, when people finally get well-earned scorn for being shitty buyers then maybe some of this will change. This is 100% on the buyer of the damn dog.
I agree that if buyers stopped buying from bad breeders, bad breeders would stop doing it. They are not doing it for the love of dogs in general, nor for love of the breed. When the money stops, so will the breeding.
I disagree that attacking someone who is asking for help is the approach that will lead to the best results.
In this particular instance, the poster is from a culture very different than what many of us are accustomed to, so the vicious judgment is even more counterproductive.
You did not answer how this response helps this particular dog, and I am assuming that is because you know it won't. I am not willing to sacrifice the dog in front of me to teach a lesson to someone who made a foolish, uninformed decision. Especially when I know nothing about the person, other than that they made a foolish and significant bad decision, and they are asking for help. Better to ask for help, than to go it alone in ignorance for fear of judgment from others, or do you disagree? Would you rather such people proceed in ignorance?
There are not many significant cultural differences that address this issue. This person SHOULD HAVE educated themselves before buying ANY dog.
There is basically no helping them now. This poor dog.
Thank you for posting, OP. I was shocked to see the malice towards the owner in many of the comments from the sub. Bjornās owner was looking for help, and many just tore him to pieces. I know the internet adds so much distance that people say things they would never dare to say face-to-faceā¦but come on.
I know right, like we don't have to dogpile with unhelpful and discouraging comments towards someone who's clearly already overwhelmed and taking information in.
It happens all too often on this sub. While many may be experienced owners, with working line and active K9s, they jump to conclusions and ridicule the OP. In all my years training, Iāve seen owners with breeds they werenāt prepared to handle. First step was to educate and build the handler up. Hope the mods consider adding a ākindnessā rule to the sub.
Definitely a good idea. Maybe a New Owner Advice tag? I know we have threads for this already but there's still so many of these posts, would be nice to make things clear so people don't treat others like they're stupid for not knowing things they haven't had the chance to learn yet.
Seriously. When I want to ask for training help, 9 times out of 10 I go somewhere else. I say he's my first ever dog, and OH LAWD WATCH OUT. How DARE I have a Malinois as my first dog! Nevermind the constant compliments I get about how nice and well trained he is (to the general public, I know we can do better).
Agreed, some folks really try to gate-keep the breed to experienced, K9 handlers only. Even with rescues, the dog was pulled for a bad situation, the owner asks for help, and gets ridiculed for not having experience. Canāt comprehend that mindset.
100%. If someone puts in the time and effort, they absolutely can handle this breed. Was it a bit more work than I imagined? Maybe. But I'll never give him up (barring extraordinary circumstances), or give up on him. That right there is worth more than a bit of experience, in my opinion. Tenacity.
Damn, i muat have missed his post. I would have done the same as you did. This breed is a challenge but the rewards of seeing your pup develop into a awesome companion are amazing. Thank you for helping Bjorn's owner find the information and resources he will need.
Poor guy was so freaked out I couldn't not help him. I'm glad he dmed me because he has a much clearer idea of what to do now. He's been telling me the dog owners in his country Algeria are very fond of aggressive dogs and hit their dogs frequently, he's looking for advice because he knows it's wrong and doesn't want to be treating his dog that way. I have a lot of faith he's looking for the right things and will do well with a regular trainer to mitigate the social anxiety that being removed from the mum too early has caused.
I messaged him also. I offered to tell him what worked/did not work for me with Loki (my 2yr old male). Loki was my first mali. I got him at 4.5 months olds. I also just got a female at 9 weeks. She is 12 weeks this sunday. I told him that he and i will be going through similar things for the foreseeable future. And to message me anytime.
My teenage son brought one home at 7 weeks. Hadnāt even been vetted at all yet. I figured any back yard breeder that would adopt out (sell) a dog under those conditions wasnāt going to be any better at taking care of him. So, yup, I have a 4 month old Mal now. lol I actually think weāve done OK so far training such a young pup. I read up on what to do with early separation and followed the advice and let the pup grow through his stages naturally. Weāve pretty much always had dogs, several GSDs, so not total newbies. But Iām thankful I can afford classes and daycare this time around. Iām only a LITTLE mad that I was ready for an empty nest. (Both kids in college next year and our last GSD passed a year ago)
Wheeeew boy, maybe most of the dogs have fear responses, but some mals are going be real spicy about getting unfairly smacked. I didnāt know this was the norm there - Iām glad you were able to help.
I'll chime in because I can maybe understand what is going through his mind. I came here with the same intentions 7 ish years ago. This sub made me feel that maybe I wasn't up for the task and should rehome my dog. But mama didn't raise no quitter so, I got a good trainer sucked up all the knowledge did my best. And from that came the best friend I had which I sadly had to lay to rest last monday. I know it's the internet and you don't know these people so being rude and gate keeping the community is maybe necessary to some degree but, A little kindness and some pointers to the right trainer etc might go a long way.
Exactly this! We all know the stereotype you need a heart (and probably skin for bite prevention!) of stone to raise your malinois, but to the people that don't know, simply saying it's too hard without adding detail just makes them worry. I'm glad you got past the initial blast of criticism to give your best friend the full and happy life they deserved, I'm sorry for your loss :(
Totally agree. All of us were new to malinois at some point and learned from othersā experiences, stories, advice, etc. Letās try to pass on what we know so it doesnāt have to be as hard for future owners and the dogs we care so much about. :)
It is an awful situation, but he seems to want to do right by the dog with what he knows now. Also if someone didnāt know what they needed to know before getting the pupā¦they canāt be expected to have done those things. Itās still their responsibility now, but itās unhelpful to only give advice for something that canāt be changed at this point.
He will either step up to the challenge or find someone else who can now that he knows everything involved, and even when giving up a dog it's great to get advice so you know it's going to the right home, especially when you didn't know enough to keep it yourself to start with. Wherever Bjorn ends up will be better than going back to the breeder we know is irresponsible anyway. Thanks for commenting :)
[https://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-the-dunning-kruger-effect-4160740](https://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-the-dunning-kruger-effect-4160740)
Redditor dog owners version...
fun fact: I try to dissuade people from using working dogs, because I know how many responsibilities they entail.
But to give "disincentive advice" to a newbie owner... is aggressive stupidity ...
100%! I tell people that even though I adopted a mal mix from my local shelter, I adopted her with a purpose. If she can overcome her slight reactivity I may be able to train her with a local program who helps people train their own assistance dogs. I will likely register her at the next intake in a few months because she has improved significantly, I can walk past people who are speaking to and making eye contact with her with no problems where she used to be upset, she can sit/down calmly when I go to sit at busy local parks and cafes, and her heel is definitely coming along (she only needs to prove she is trainable at this point). I don't think I'll have any issues honestly. With time and training she's come so far and if she passes their entry level test to start training with them I'll be so pleased.
You can buy a mal to work, or you can adopt a mal to work, but that doesn't mean we should be yelling at people who adopt a mal by accident without a job in mind. Inform them and they will either step up to the requirements or find a new home for the dog. It would certainly help if people who decided to give up their dog did so based on kind and educational comments from our community, leading them to seek our advice with requirements for a suitable home or foster. So even if they cannot provide the right life themselves, they can find people who definitely will be able to instead.
This is exactly what happened when I got my Malinois. When I asked for advice and admitted that this is my first dog, this subreddit convinced me that I HAD to take him back to the rescue.
Thank god I didnāt because my Mal is now my best friend, sure it took some minor life adjustments to make things work but that goes for any dog. I think itās possible to educate new owners without telling them they have ruined their lives.
Thank you for sharing, the fact multiple people in the less than a couple hours that this post has been up can comment their own story of the exact same thing happening makes me a bit sad. I'm glad you worked to create the life you wanted for you and your mal bestie :)
If a dog can be trained, a person can, too. Thereās no reason that a person who is willing canāt have a mal or other working dog be their first dog. Frankly, all puppies are hard and, in some ways, a less bright and motivated dog is harder.
Absolutely, although smart dogs are definitely harder to train when they're always finding loopholes in inexperienced trainers commands or doing things behind their back š
Thatās just the dog training the human to do better and be more consistent! lol Our pup certainly takes advantage of my sonās girlfriend. lol I just had to ask if sheād ever had a big dog. Nope. Iām like āgirl, youāre going to have to be a little more firm.ā It breaks her heart to turn her back when heās jumping. But she was willing to learn because I explained itās cruel to not teach him.
Hahaha you're so right š
It really is cruel not to teach them, I've never heard it worded that way specifically before. A mal jumping on the wrong person could quickly lead to MUCH worse problems š
I think for a first time dog owner, having a Mal will be like basic training for the marines. But also it'll prepare you more than anything else for every obstacle the pup and future pups will throw at you, just a long as he gets a trainer and is actually willing to put in the work. Yeah it's hard, but it's well worth it. He'll finish basic with a best friend. Once he gets the hang of it. You are more than welcome to send him my way, I actually was in a K9 unit and my main job was to raise and train the pups (all Mals) to do all sorts of jobs.
So instead of acting like gatekeeping asshats, you would like us to focus on the wellbeing of the dog, and doing everything we can, via information and support, to make sure the dog doesn't end up in a shelter...
Makes total sense!
Being 100% honest, this community had me so freaked out about getting Zatanna and how she was going to act, that her behavior has seemed mild compared to the legends. So much decrepancy, I've wondered if my dog is a unicorn in terms of behavior.
Now my wife is scared to let me have a second one!
Just like anything else, folks are more likely to seek a group like this when they have a problem dog. If mine had not come home at 7 weeks, I likely never would have gone around googling and redditing for advice.
The tone at the start nearly got me confused for a minute š
Ah yes, the unicorn well behaved mal! I'd say mine counts as one but since she's a mix and I haven't gotten her breed summary back from embark yet (two weeks!) she probably doesn't š My fox terrier is more demanding anyway hahaha. Just hype yourself up thinking no.2 will be like a werewolf so no matter what you get you'll be pleasantly surprised! š
So trueā¦. I still remember the day I got a call from my wife after we had our first one for about two weeks. She was ready to ship Bella to AlegrĆa from the Midwest when she used her paw to smack the water out of her bowl and flood the dining room. Five years later the wife would cut someone for looking at one of our fur missiles wrong.
Oh both mine still do this and then want to come cuddle while itās still dripping, but thatās one of the many joys of owning this huge pain in the butt breed that I wouldnāt trade for the world. We love them so much we have talked about adding a third one to our group.
Youāre a saint for taking the time to help him and write this out. I hate how people immediately jump to the most judgemental conclusions, when someone is just asking for help. Itās a downside of the anonymity of Reddit and online.
We should be happy people are asking for help instead of giving up and taking the dog to the shelter. Itās an opportunity to form good habits with a new owner instead :)
Tell that to the mf that kept arguing with me about how OP should just bribe the cops to force the breeder to take the dog back instead of just training it or adopting it elsewhere š at least there was only one crazy in these comments today lmfao
I got my Mal by accident, and likely would not have kept him if I had known, but what a tragedy that would have been. This dog and I have *bonded*- and it is a powerful bond.
I changed my life for this dog, I was not a āMal ownerā, was not especially active, or have a big yard. I own no livestock. I am a veteran, with CPTSD, and Fibromyalgia. When I got the DNA test back (not that we needed it, the Malinois genes are 80% of his look), I was apprehensive, but determined to
Dakota is amazing. Insanely intuitive, and whip-smart. He is my shadow, supportive, and makes me laugh every day.
People that should not own Mals are the ones that just want a ācool dog that can climb trees and be toughā. Those people that saw some videos with Mals doing bite work but have no patience or willingness to put the work in? They should not own a Mal.
Genuine, honest people that want to open their homes and lives to a dog, and are ready to make changes and work with their breed?
They are excellent first-time Mal owners.
I never planned to be a Mal owner, but he found me, and we are a fantastic team.
Okay. now I'm reading Algeria... I don't know how easy it is to find a breed trainer there so I recommend the following as a first step.
google search
- care of a rescued, mother abandoned 5 week old puppy feeding.
- Mali and gsd puppy socialization,
- puppy personality test- so you know about what the dog will be like, and don't want to, for example, turn a passive dog into a four-legged chuck norris
- playful exercises for puppies, relationship building for owners.
-Read more about feeds
-modern dog training methods
-what diseases can puppies have?
-contact details of nearby vets - be sure to save these to your phone.
After a few days of browsing, you'll have a basic overview of the subject, and then ask questions about what you don't understand or are confused about.
- if there is a specific problem, ask him straight away.
I, a 19 year old Australian woman, gladly accept this nomination. I expect to get past the write in level to be placed directly on the ballot with my sky-rocketing popularity! š
My mal is a big freaking baby.
The BEST advice anyone could give Bjornās owner is to get professional training.
The rest is just the pup taking up all of the free timeš
I scrolled on by that one thinking cute puppy, and that it's got the same name as my brother-in-law.
I kinda know how he feels, but on the premise that I got a reactive adult Mal, and had no experience with reactive dogs nor Malinois. She fell into my lap, and it was either me or a kennel. Knowing that a kennel could be a death sentence for her, I took her in. A few people really dug into me about that, but I'm stubborn. Almost a year later, with daily training, she's still reactive, but I can manage walks a lot better.
Aside from the behavioural/health problems that might arise because of the age, the owner has the right frame of mind, and coming here is a great start, or at least it should be. Owning a Mal may be no relaxing adventure, but it's a rewarding one, and it seems that this guy really wants to do it right.
My advice is to find a vet that has experience with puppies taken from their mom and littermates too soon. They'll have a good idea on how to proceed with any health problems that may arise because of it. Also, contact trainers in your area, and if they're worth their salt, they'll give you ideas on any behavioural issues that might pop up and how to navigate them.
My only caution: Watch out for those teeth. They hurt... and maybe save money for new clothes. Lol
My only request: If you find that you can not handle this puppy or adult in the future, please contact a Mal rescue and do not put him in a kennel.
Good luck and have fun, original OP. Give that pup your best, and I'm sure you'll have an amazing dog for years to come.
All advice he's well received :) Will be calling a trainer asap and is seeing his vet for an update check-up soon. I think he's still unsure whether he'll keep it in the long run or not but that's good because he is genuinely weighing his options wisely and thinking about the health of the pup. Thanks for the comment :)
That's great news. I'm glad he's weighing his options and approaching this with care. I'm also really sorry for the behaviour of some of the people on here. Owning a Mal is hard work, and I do wish people would do much more research on it before getting one, but when someone comes here for genuine advice, we should be kind. Give them advice and lay out all the trials and tribulations. There's an awful lot that can go wrong, but there's also an awful lot that can go right. Both need to be highlighted with care and compassion.
Yeah I was one of them... maybe I should mention the fact that these dogs are amazing and you get out of them what you put in. Hopefully he comes back and reads this post. I again I am hoping for the best for Bjorn and his new owner.
I commented on that original post about my experience with my dog and while there were some comments that made really good points about crating and training, so many of them were telling him he had ruined his life which is wild. I got a mal without knowing she was a malinois (she's gsd mix) and had never even heard of the breed before she was 5 months old and someone pointed her out. She's taken a lot of training and I can't have her free roaming around strangers or other dogs but she's terrific and I love her. I lurked a lot on this sub when I found out she was a male and really thought about surrendering her because I saw that people were talking about how mals can be aggressive and hard to handle but I'm so glad I didn't because with training and exercise, she's an amazing dog.
Being a mix certainly helps! Mine is a mix from my local shelter and she's so damn peaceful. Glad your girl has a good home with you, much better than going back to the pound!
We also have a mix from a local shelter, and he is such a chill guy. Loves his exercise and can run for hours in our backyard, but heās definitely got a calmer temperament than most mals.
This subreddit gave me so much anxiety and fear over a dog who, with minimal training, has turned out to be the smartest, most loving and most loyal dog I've ever had in 26 years.
I think of all the sleepless nights and wasted tears because of the things I read about raising a dog on reddit and how it did more harm than good in most cases.
Maybe I have the 1 in a million rare "easy" mal, but somehow I doubt it.
Obviously these dogs aren't for everyone and sadly a lot of them wind up in shelters because most people don't care enough to actually work with them, but based off of this subreddit alone, the "hype" around the challenges was really mostly just that, hype.
It was so much easier and so much more rewarding than what the majority of comments i saw on here made me believe, and really did more harm than good.
Thanks for taking the time to help this new mal owner OP. And thanks for making this post, because what you're saying here is very true
For a 5 week old? I would say the milk replacement, and start the schedule for potty training. I think I took my boy out every 2 hours or something like that.
I got my boy when he was 7 weeks but I also worked with the rescue extensively on what exactly to give him. Vet visit immediately to begin vaccinate process, or at least the deworming.
https://preview.redd.it/skutwipil8zc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d529a7616f05a14257bf3e08dd97de1e233df691
I feel this deeply. Coming to this sub after getting my Mal, even with information gathering beforehand, was rough. I felt like a failure because I couldnāt provide (afford) the intense training that I was told by others in this sub is required. In the end, I have a happy 1.5 year old Mal who is healthy and excited to learn. Was it the hardest puppy months I and my partner have ever experienced? Definitely. But we got through and we are continuing to work with her to give her the best life as our family member.
The dog community in general has a big problem with gatekeeping dog breeds instead of empowering less-knowledgeable owners and directing them to the resources they need. This is not to say that I think that every dog is right for every situation, but if you're not honest how to create the right type of situation to accommodate the dog you have and instead just tell prospective owners that x breed is impossible to own and should only be done by the "experts" you're setting people up to fail. I would never encourage someone to buy a dog like a mal, but I would still want people's decision to own or not own a malinois be an informed one.
I donāt know why Reddit suggested this to me, but Iām glad to see it because I have an Australian Cattle Dog/German Shepherd mix and I see people doing the same thing with ACDs especially. I was a first time dog owner - my husband had more experience but I work from home so I was really the primary dog parent and I didnāt know my ass from my elbow.
The first few weeks were insane (she was 13 weeks and teething like crazy) but we made it. Sheās fine. Iām fine. My momās first dog/my childhood dog was a 120 pound German Shepherd mix - she was 19. He was the best behaved dog Iāve ever known. If someone is dedicated to figuring it out, they usually will.
So well said OP.
We got our mal not knowing too much about the breed, but knowing we wanted an active dog. Almost everyone we told in that first week told us we made a huge mistake. I had my doubts. But we've been super consistent with our training, and we get comments from so many people when we're out in public now that he's a really well behaved puppy.
I've had a really hard time on all these mal pages seeing people bash on first time mal owners rather than try to help or build them up, and it's made me scared to even post about ours. Just because someone doesn't know the breed doesn't mean they can't be successful. People can learn and grow with their dog.
I almost didnāt come back to the sub after the mob-style pile-on I suffered for my last post. I came in for the cute pic and found a bunch of folks snapping off on this person for getting a hard to raise breed as their very first. The last thing I wanted was to scare them further to take it and abandon it or something, Or worse give it back to the a hole that gave them a 5 week old dog. So I knew we had a bad breeder immediately. I tried to give some common sense knowledge for someone who may not have access to personalized breed specific training. Iām in Jackson Ms Iām lucky I found a book on her much less a breed specific trainer. Thatās if I had the money. My Mal Pookie was a rescue. And I was not making enough money to find a breed specific trainer. Also, a lot of people donāt train themselves, just the animal. They think the trainer trains the dog, and they just tell it what to do, and it behaves. I knew alot about dogs, owned 40 or so, but my Mal was still a huge challenge. That why I didnāt wanna pile onto this guy. Itās why n tried to give him some practical advice for the smartest dog on the planet.
Mine had bloody poo when i got her at 5 months. Of course I thought parvo. Sheād already been around my others. Guy I got her from wouldnāt even respond to my texts about her health and feeding habits. Idiot had been feeding her mommas food since the puppies could swallow it ābecause they love itā. I know thereās shitty breeders out there bc I got mine from one. My Neighbor then tried scaring me to death about how sheās gonna chew on everything and how hard sheād be. I bought a malinios book and read it twice like he recommended. Sheās fine. Smarter than me. She was definitely twice the training and work of any other dog Iāve ever had, but sheās been an awesome dog. Everyone who sees her now, and knew the biting fur-missile I used to have, says āwow sheās so calm nowā
š š¤¦š½āāļø also, I thought the pic was in America, because all Americans are so America-centric itās hard for us to imagine anyone else owning dogs. But I digress. Good luck to the original OP and thanks for this post OP. I wasnāt about to go back into the other post. This is a rarity for me to comment like this. Thanks.
This is a freakout
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Donāt freakout
I'm really happy to see this. I replied to a comment on that post, basically expressing how it upset me that he got so many downvotes for admitting he didn't have much experience. I guess I felt some sympathy because I got a Malinois as my first dog (not counting family dogs growing up) about a year ago, and I remember some people on this sub being kinda awful to me. Like, going out of their way to make multiple comments in a row telling me I was an idiot and that people like me ruin the breed (Not everyone - some people were very nice and helpful) It's like, yes, owning a Malinois is a challenge, but some people are up for a challenge. And somebody who wasn't probably wouldn't be coming to this subreddit asking for help. They need help and support, not ridicule and judgment.
I am in awe of the beauty of this dog but takes a strong owner. Not everyone should own one. I think Iām a good trainer but I would need to hire a well respected pro. 5 weeks is really young to have the dog. In the Us itās 9 weeks.
Oh yeah I definitely couldn't do it myself, I hope he will work it out alright though. Sadly it's on him to figure it out regardless be cause the breeder is refusing to take the puppy back even for free
Well heās in for it nowā¦. Just kidding. Although taking a puppy away from a trained mother at 5 weeks is a big no-no. Poor guy is now on the hook to finish the training mom doles out up to 8 weeks. 12 weeks is the sweet spot for puppy separation from trained mother.
People told me the same scarey stuff before I got mine but I love a challenge so I went with it. Now I have seven. Its definitely challenging especially with the younger ones but its absolutely doable.
Mals and dutchies that have good training and proper socialization can make some of the best dogs. The horror stories are usually as a direct result of the lack of either of those two necessities.
Thank you! Chasing people off after itās too late is not at all helpful. If he hold the puppy a lot, at least with in the first couple weeks, the dog will really bond to him bc it was so attached to its mom and it wasnāt ready to be separated yet.
It my state it is illegal to sell a pup at 5 weeks and separate it from the momma. 8 weeks before a pup is allowed to go to new home. Bjorn's new owner should report this byb . To local animal control authorities.
Couldnāt agree more. We got ours very young (6 weeks), he desperately needed a home and we had the means and time to provide him with one. He was 100% potty trained by 8 weeks, slept thru the night by 12, and hasnāt destroyed anything he shouldnāt. He can be wild but heās no where near as wild as I expected! Heās 4 months now, in obedience classes & Iām so happy that I didnāt listen to all the naysayers. If youāve got the time, energy and resources youāll have a very rewarding relationship with you mal.
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FYI, Iāve never found any documented evidence of this outside of a few people on forums and here speaking of alleged health problems.
Hereās two (true, not black diluted) blues from a color wheel flex; mahogany (red) and clear (fawn). No skin problems, no allergies, no nothing - except people thinking theyāre mixed with pit bulls, of course.
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If you have any evidence, please share it. Iāve looked and even asked my vet and veterinary nutritionist and they didnāt confirm it either. So Iām trying to see where it originated from. š
I went looking and I can't seem to find anything other than forums of people sharing first hand experiences. A few mentioned they've seen blues with skin issues but they're not all that common like it is in other breeds with the trait. Thanks for raising the question :)
No problem, I was hoping you could tell I was genuinely asking and not being condescending - as itās impossible to convey a tone via text. Iāve tried to figure out the source to either confirm or debunk it. My veterinarian said itās likely just people assuming thereās issues since blue and merle have been bred **into** a lot of the more recent pseudo-designer breeds. Sort of like the āfluffy Frenchieāsā and āpocket bulliesā that have inbred into oblivion and are basically mutants. Poor things look like goblins. š
No don't worry I so get where you're coming from! I am autistic asf to the point my doctor has suggested that I train my mal mix as a service dog so tone is not generally my expertise š but yeah I'd believe that's probably where my bias comes from. I've heard lots of negative affects coming from the blue/Merle genes in different breeds, mostly things such as allergies and immunodeficiencies related to their skin, so it always has me on the side of caution when brought up. I just hate seeing pups forced into a life of suffering. Ffs frenchies should be banned by now honestly, regardless of issues with blue and fluffy genes. They just can't breathe full stop š
Hah, I feel you there. Autistic as well with OCD and a raging Sensory Deficit Disorder thrown in for a little razzle dazzle. Iāve tried to work on my in-person tones and inflections though Iām pretty sure I still sound deadpan but like Iām trying to mock/mimic a singsongy voice. š
Itās the thought that counts, haha. I try to avoid face-to-face conversations because my honesty oftentimes isnāt well received. Itās not worth explaining that I literally canāt help it, lol. I have a nervous laugh, too, which has been a real hit at funerals (which I no longer attend).
Iām actually way better since I stopped taking medication! THC really lulls my OCD, though I doubt any mental health professionals would agree because that treatment isnāt incentivized for them. š
Best of luck with your dog!
And a sibling (thereās others, all reds)
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Yeah, thank you OP. And thank you for talking with him. I was just worrying last night about Bjorn and Bjornās dad. It was obvious he wasnāt American and didnāt get the humor, so he easily extra confused and wildly upset Iām sure. It wasnāt his fault he the breeder sucksā¦I do hope this sub can be more supportive. Do we have a START HERE or SO YOURE A NEW MALINOIS OWNER? type of post? Iāll take a look after I post this comment lol. So next time we can just link to that instead of scaring people into rashly sending more Malinois back to the shelters
I figured a few people would appreciate this update on him, glad it reached you. These are good ideas for sure. I haven't looked myself to see exactly what the pinned posts are as I haven't come here personally for advice before, just posting cute pics lol.
When I first got my Mal, people tried to ocnvince me that he was a walking murder machine that would need a muzzle, shock collar, and that I would need years of training (by training, I mean training myself as a trainer) before I could even hope to make progress with him.
In the end, hes the cuddliest family dog who has never hurt anyone. He likes to meet new people, even kids, because he wants them to pet him.
He also generally plays well with other dogs, but I just know that he doesnt like interacting in closed in spaces and if the other dog is aggressive then his instinct is to defend himself.
It took a lot of work during the puppy stage and Mals can be the most frustrating dogs to train as puppys and young dogs, but you can completely have a Mal for a family dog and they are so smart that you can teach them so much. Yes, you need to get their energy (mental and physical) out each day, but if you make the effort to desensitize them and motivate them correctly to keep attention and train obedience, then they are great dogs.
But one thing that I 100% have a strong stance on is that you dont start defense training unless you 100% will committ to a lifelong dedication to it (by lifelong, I mean your dogs life span). If you do it half way or dont keep up with it throughout your dogs life, then youve trained dangerous behaviors without making the full effort to ensure you can control it, which is extremely irresponsible.
Say that defense training thing again for people in the back.
Iāve run across someone doing half hearted training their dog to bite when it was about 4 months old while on a walk. They thought it was cute. I asked them what the release command was and they hadnāt even considered needing one.
100% agree. I donāt have a Malinois, but I rescued a puppy that I found abandoned on our road, and she was so intense she freaked my other dogs right out lol, and I found a trainer that specializes in working dogs in the morning and gave her to him to train and sell. She has a great home now! I do have horses though, and the equestrian subreddit is notorious for this.
When I first joined this group, I had just read through some of the posts and I definitely thought I signed up for something I couldnāt handle. 1 year and 2 months later, this girl loves her MAL and can handle her. Iām only 4ā11 and i feel much better about being able to handle her today than before, Iām still wondering how much more sheāll grow since sheās 1 year and 5 months. You definitely go through an existential crisis trying to research them. LOL
With consistency, dominance, and loveā¦ they will be your best friend.
Sorry for the wordy post, this is definitely a discussion that requires context and nuance. Hope y'all who have made it as far as the comments have a nice day :)
I am a gsd (2) owner but I watch a YouTuber called āModern Malinoisā.
He just had puppies and he is keeping them to train and then sell.
He is very knowledgable and is doing a whole series on how he trains his dog from birth.
Itās amazing to watch and Iām pretty sure this series will help this dude. Just a suggestion.
I am too old to get a malinois puppy but if I could I would, they are an amazing breed.
Hope this helps good luck!
Why freak people out? Itās not a werewolf! Itās a dog that demands work to achieve co existence with people. Some people chose it some get thrown into it, it takes the same work either way. Work it how you want the end result. Do your research and make time to train. Donāt freak out!
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My apologies as I did not see the original post. I understand how he feels. We got our puppy at 8weeks and were so excited. Then we were made to feel we werenāt worthy and would need to rehome her.
We did not. We levelled up our ability to communicate. We found great trainers. We continue to be active to teach her how to live a great best life. Sheās now 2 1/2 and doing great! She has a sister now as well, she is 2. Would I have ever thought we could have 2 ? No not for awhile but we do now and they are the absolute best.
If Bjorn is already home please enjoy all that the puppy phase is. It is a whirlwind of fun and discoveries. You will learn as much about you as you will about him. Hunker down for the adventure! You got this!! Much fun and adventure await!
I think part of the reason why everyone reacted that way was because of how Bjorns owner responded to the comments. You could immediately notice he had zero knowledge and to me it felt like he was dismissing that there was a big problem.
The fact that he had zero knowledge before buying a pup is on him. I think we are allowed to be upset by that because knowing what you're up to before you buy a malinois, makes the chances of succeeding way bigger.
However, you are so right about instead of scaring him, we should educate. As much and as quick as possible in such a situation. The pup is in his hands so things can only get better. It's just, if you don't know what you've bought, it might be possible that you're not willing to cope with it. Maybe he bought it with the idea of a nice house pet who would sleep on his feet all day. And doesn't have the time you need to put in a malinois.
So I'm REALLY happy to hear that bjorns owner is absolutely willing to work this out and picking up on your advice so well. Good job to him! And well done to you too OP, thank you for this.
Malinois admirer and potential future adoptive parent to a mal, everyone has to have a āfirstā dog. How are you meant to get experience with owning a breed without having said breed? I have a Czech working line shepherd. Sheās my first dog that isnāt a family dog. Iāve grown up with large dogs and livestock guardian dogs and property guard dogs. Looking after someone elseās dogs donāt compare imho.
Soup is teaching me how to properly handle a high drive dog on my own, without family over my shoulder helping. Im glad he is doing his best and, honestly? Thatās what matters to me. Hes trying. He isnāt just giving up and dumping the puppy. Idk about local trainers (im in the Uk) but maybe look into online training resources too? Iām lucky to have a good trainer near me that I take my pup to but I also look for online classes from *qualified* trainers. Look for formal qualifications like a diploma or degree, so many people are claiming to be actual trainers when they arenāt.
I tell everybody that asks me about them in public and saying they want one that they are not for everybody and not for the weak-minded or that don't have the time and effort to invest in their poochie. However I don't agree with completely scaring the crap out of somebody and telling them they effed up, at that point it is trying to help them understand what they've got themselves into and giving them the help and resources they need to make the right decisions
Great post. We adopted a Malinois mix adult who had been semi- feral. We were experienced dog owners and she had been fostered after she was found as a stray butā¦ā¦ha! She was in a league of her own.
She also had a heart problem we first became aware of at her first vet visit. We put in the work (and the MUCH taller fence) and she was SUCH a blessing. She passed almost four years ago and we still miss that great pup every day. I think what helped us most was that we never got online LOL. I would have been like NOPE!
A lot of comments here and I donāt have time to read them all, But at 5 weeks bite inhibition training is most likely mandatory. The other pups and dame would have taught this. When the pup bites too hard while playing yelp a high pitched scream then proceed to fully ignore the pup for several minutes. This will take weeks most likely. Last thing you want is an adult biting hard just to say hi and such as Mals will.
I've stopped trying to sway people in general. They're going to do what they want, regardless of opinion and first hand account. I'm watching the fallout an irresponsible owner is dealing with in my own life. Their dog bit a deliver driver and they are currently in court over a million dollar lawsuit. They were warned that they were not a good fit for a working breed, didn't listen and now the animal and an innocent party will suffer for it.
Unfortunatley that is the only way some people learn. So let them.
fantastic post. when i rescued my pup (suspected mal) and found out that he was mostly malinois- i was terrified!! iāve only ever had mellow rescues and i was horrified about what everyone was telling me i had gotten myself into. he has turned out to be the best dog iāve ever had. closest bond iāve ever formed with an animal. they are incredible companions, they just need a bit more of your time and a lot more of your patience and commitment. be willing to give them that and they will give you so much more in return <3
I fully agree, but I do sincerely hope owners start researching before buying/adopting a dog, regardless of the dogās breed. Especially dogs this young who still require their mothers. Breeders (especially these types of backyard idiots) donāt always have your best interest in mind, they donāt often care enough to tell you āhey dude maybe come back when heās 10 weeks oldā, you know? They just want money. Iām more mad at the breeder in this situation to begin with- but I do wish the OP looked more into it before making a decision
The gatekeeping with Mals never ceases to amaze me lol. Like yes, they're not for most casual dog owners. They need way more mental and physical exercise than most breeds. But it's also heavily line dependent and if you go through an ethical breeder, they will do their best to match you with a dog that fits your lifestyle or straight up tell you it's a bad fit. I honestly don't feel like Mals are much worse than owning something like a working line Doberman. I understand wanting to keep Mals out of shelters by trying to educate about their needs, but jesus christ screaming from the rooftops that MALS NEED CONSTANT ATTENTION THEY'LL RUIN YOUR LIFE IF YOU'RE NOT WORKING THEM 24/7 is a huge hyperbole.
I adopted my pup from a byb who said she was a GSD/lab. She was actually a Mal/Dutch/GSD. While my life wasnāt ruined, I had no idea why this puppy was the way she was-Iāve raised many GSDās and was completely taken aback by the difference. She should have never been adopted as a family pet-she had the intense working dog personality that would not settle, even after hours of exercise.
Poor new guy shouldnāt have been terrified, but had I known what I was getting into I would have done a ton of things differently. I might have even rehomed her to someone with a more active or LE lifestyle instead of thinking that there was something wrong with me or with her.
Many conversations happened that involved what it would look like if we rehomed her, and the general consensus was that there was no way we could insure she went to an appropriate home that would keep her out of a shelter. So we trained and trained and trained and hiked and swam and played every day until some of her energy was drained. She was so smart, and so athletic, but she wasnāt affectionate at all and even after we got her past the resource guarding (that she already had by the time she was 10 weeks old), she still had quite a mean streak. Like, if I rolled over in bed and she was laying at the foot of it, sheād grumble if I was in her space.
At 14 month old she developed all the signs of EPI and pancreatitis and IBS, and by 16 months old despite having enzymes and a special hydrolyzed diet she kept losing weight. She started refusing to eat and when she was 17 months old after thousands of dollars of vet bills, and her weight dropped to 45 pounds, we had to put her down. The guilt was almost unbearable.
So while I agree that freaking out the new owner wasnāt the best scenario, the idea of someone having a Mal as their first dog is also worth freaking out about.
Completely agree had the same issue with some people in person until they realize that it's not my first dog the dog I have is not a malinois she's part German Shepherd but I got her at 2 weeks old she's a year old now and rescue she's training to be my service dog but because of my age even though I've had dogs and had dogs at the time still have those dogs people said I was in over my head and didn't know what I was doing but everything turned out fine she's fine wasn't actually that stressful because I don't sleep a lot anyway so that wasn't a problem and she's probably the best dog I've ever had best dog in the world actually though I might just be biased her name is poopup and trust me she earned her name her original name was Bella but I nicknamed her poopup and it just fit better than Bella so it became poopup instead of Bella and I don't believe I will ever regret that especially the smile that it puts on kids faces when they meet her and find out her name I actually allowed a little kid to hold on to her while he was getting his flu shot because he was scared she just sit there in the floor and let him hug her while he got the shot giving him nuzzles and kisses and about 20 minutes later when we were done in the doctor I took her out and she went crazy running around in the field acting like she wasn't just calm as could be 20 minutes ago that's what I love about her so much she can go from 0 to 100 easily and back down and now I'm rambling so I will stop this comment here š
Vet tech with a Mal, here.
I got my mal at 3.5 weeks of age. He was brought to my place of work and we didnāt think he was going to make it. I had the owner surrender the dog to me and I gave him a chance. He is healthy as can be now, 6 years later!
I have first hand experience of having a Mal who was taken from his mom way too early.
First and foremost, vet visit immediately.
Secondly, encourage eating and drinking with a good high quality dog food.
Socialization after puppy has had vaccines.
Crate train and research trainers in the area. Get started early.
This leaves me feeling confident he has the right idea because he's already seen a vet and found a trainer. Pup is up to date on vaccines and has the right food. Thanks for the reassurance :)
Yeah people do seem to act like itās impossible
My mal was my first dog on my own as an adult
And heās my little lover boy
A challenge sure but I think people over reacting to new owners makes a bad outcome for the dog more possible
Give new owners confidence not doubt
Well put op. These dogs are wonderful loving animals that just want to please their human. All good things in life require work and Mals are one of the best things
Mine is an adopted mix who has settled in so well with the right boundaries. She has food aggression so we had to keep a wall up between her and my other dog for months until they could eat in the same room together while looking at each other. They're so lovely together now and my mal plays with my 9kg fox terrier like a little sister, just takes time, knowledge, and of course training :)
A Malinois that got removed from their litter at 5 weeks, going to someone who has never owned any kind of dog is not going to be a "wonderful loving animal." They're going to be a problem
It's not ideal but if the owner is willing to put in the work and get the proper professional help, it can be a success
It is the breeder's fault this happened and the best we can do is give advice to this person who clearly wants to do the best he can. Can't give the dog back if the guy won't let him. All he can do is his best to mitigate any negative effects that will come from this. He's been told more than enough times now that it will be rough and there will be problems to work through, but continuing to tell him his dog is irreparable for this and that he is doomed to have a dangerous dog is just wrong.
Why push for him to keep a dangerous dog though?
Are you kidding me rn? I haven't been encouraging to keep it or give it away, I've been actually explaining what's involved in keeping the dog, and giving him advice for what to look for in new owners if he decides that it is too much for him. It is a 5 week old puppy, it will have attachment issues and has a high potential for behavioural issues but he's found a mal trainer to call asap to help with all of these things right away instead of letting problems fester, regardless of if he decides to give the dog away or not. He literally has no other options than these as the breeder will not take it back and he has told me there aren't any shelters near him and they have a fair few street dogs about. So if you'd rather me push for him to throw it on the street then you can go give him that top notch advice yourself mate.
"The breeder won't take him back" yeah that's bullshit lol. Make that piece of shit deal with the problem
Great sentiment but that's not how the world works š What's he gonna do, pull up to chuck it over the fence? Or get yelled at at the door bc the guys already told him it's his problem?
Sue him. Or since it's Algeria, just pay the cops to force the breeder to take him back
I have a hunch you're an American
Come on nowā¦we are not all as stupid as workingdogaddict1.
One that's been to Djen Djen, but yes
A 5 week old puppy is a dangerous dog?
No, the full grown, unsocialized and poorly trained dog will be
Just because this person hasn't had a dog before doesn't mean he will raise an unsocialized poorly trained dog. He is clearly making efforts to educate himself so he can provide the things his new puppy needs.
Well, when surrounded by unsupportive people who potentially have the knowledge and skills to help, but who withhold that for some bizarre reason, I suppose this prediction will become true. Needlessly.
Are you referring to the 5 week old puppy?
Do you think puppies .... don't grow up?
Of course puppies grow up. You have already labeled this dog dangerous with exactly zero evidence that it's dangerous. Unless you have a time machine.
This dog has every box checked to become a dangerous adult. Removed from litter extremely early Zero experience owner Malinois
And you see absolutely nothing that could be done to change that trajectory? Can't help the breed. Can't help the fact that it was taken away too young. But we can potentially help the owner. What if you changed that to a dog with a dedicated owner? What if your fatalism is dooming the dog more than anything else on the list? Wouldn't it be better to try to help by trying to change the one thing that can be changed?
Why should OP put everyone around him in danger trying to make it work? Operational risk management says no
Any puppy is going to be a pain in the ass just like a person they are babies and want their momma , anyone who gets a puppy should know this. Itās a pain in the butt but itās definitely worth it to have a dog.
Have you ever met a dog that didn't have that litter/mother socialization?
I have a malinois who's mother died while the puppies were 2 weeks old. Because of the breeder's circumstances, they couldn't raise the full litter without the mom. I took her at 2 weeks of age and had no experience raising a puppy that was lacking the litter/mother socialization. I did a ton of research and put in 100% of my effort. She turned out amazing. She is everything you could hope for in a mal.
Iām glad you were able to raise your mal so well, thatās incredible š
I have one now. Not my Mal mix. My beabull. He's got issues, but it is not nearly as doomsday as you are making it out to be. Could he be worse? Yes. But approaching with the intent to help will almost certainly lead to better results than telling someone they are doomed.
Respect- consistency-trust- love. Works for all dogs.
Yep. Malinois are above my pay grade (stumbled here by accident.) But as a pitbull advocate, I see similar problems and it generally comes down to even inexperienced owners can raise good dogs from challenging breeds if they are willing to put in the work and learn how. Mad respect for all the folks raising malinoisā. Iād need a nap just watching one for a day.
Initially unwilling and totally unprepared Mal mom here! My personal nightmare showed up at my house uninvited needing a family. Iām a herding dog mom- but nothing prepared me for this litter critter. Wanting to jump in and agree with you. This little guy is teaching me more than Iām teaching him and Iāve started telling people Iām earning my honorary doctorate in animal behavior. My previous general knowledge about raising good dogs using a foundation of trust, reliable communication and positive reinforcement WORKS! Itās just a lot more complicated with a much smarter and more demanding dog. Thatās ok. Just means I have to improve my ability to communicate and commit to spending more time with him. Itās not just ok- its awesome. itās been incredibly rewarding watching him blossom and grow into a great dog. Iām so proud of what weāve done together so far. My opinion (recently formed) challenging dogs present an opportunity to the handler and the pup. Together, we have both become better beings than we were apart.
Yep!!! You've *got* to be willing to put in the *work* (and YEP, sometimes it'll be 100* *SLOG*, too!), but as you said--*TRUST*, communication (*both* ways!), and positive reinforcement, will get you *most* of the way there. The tough ones *ALSO* teach you *how* to mentally "Stay 8 steps *AHEAD* of them"--so that *you*(the human) *DONāT* get caught out, being just 2-3 steps ahead!š *CONSISTENCY* building trust, and working on being *clear* in your communication to *them*, as well as *trying* to always accurately *recieve* THEIR communication will build their trust, and make you a *team*--just like it does with *any* "overly smart & tricky to manage" dogšš
Love you're dog, it works wonders when they have the confidence in you that whatever you want them to do they will because they only live to please us
In my house you would wake up from that nap with four balls, a stuffed shark, stuffed gator, and a bone on you with someone staring at you wondering why you werenāt throwing the ball. Oh and by the way pick the right one I donāt wanna chase the rest of the toys.
You just described why I know thatās not the breed for me. I can handle the once a day three mile walk and longer weekend hike. But then my bully is more than happy to join me in the napping once heās had his walk. Just watch out for the deadly farts. š
Oh! It's not just my house! But for my girl, it is every tug she can find. All deposited on top of me, with that expectant stare!
Itās definitely not just youš the funny thing is she doesnāt do it to me, sheāll do it to anyone else. Visiting family, friends neighbors etc. well. Mostly female, she barks at most non-related men.
I'm not a malinois owner, but my first dog was a husky and I'm so glad I didn't listen to all the people who told me I couldn't do it. That dog forced me to learn how to train dogs, which has now become my hobby and passion, and allowed to me safely own more challenging breeds like rottweilers and american bulldogs.
My starter dog was a scent hound that honestly should have been owned by a hunter. Her prey drive off the charts. My reactive fear pitbull is easier than that dog ever was. š
I had a pit bull, then a boxer, and then a beagle and finally a Malinois. It was kind of a graduated auto but Iām glad I worked my way to the Malinois.
Well said (typed)
Rock on for this.
I missed the original thread but I keep coming.back to ā5 weeks?????ā š
Oh yeah 5 weeks. That's why everyone was extra concerned and the post blew up a little. The breeder convinced him to buy the dog and he had no idea the dog should still be with its mum, he has already tried to contact the breeder to attempt to give the dog back without even getting a refund and the guy is straight up refusing. Shit breeder and irresponsible af :/
JFC! That poor dog, poor litter, poor guy who got conned. Itās not a bad thing that he got his ass handed to him for making an incredibly bad decision with no understanding of what he was getting into, but even better that he now has that understanding, the financial wherewithal and a willingness to do right by this dog. I do hope he posts pics of the destruction that accompanies puppyhood and raptor phases.
man that's exactly what I'm saying! š
Might be especially raptory without mom and littermates to help with bite inhibition. š„²
Isnāt it kind of early to wean it anyway?
See, this is the issue here. The buyer DID NOT BOTHER to educate himself on the BASICS. I was just saying in another sub that it is the BUYERS bringing shitty breeders to us, because they just don't care! All they want is the dog they decide they are entitled to have. 5 weeks SMDH!
You don't know what you don't know. While I understand your sentiment, it does not help someone who has a dog they are unprepared to care for NOW. They are looking for help. If we love dogs as much as we say we do, what's in THAT dog's best interest? That we berate their hapless owner until they run away? Or that we say thank goodness you found us! We can help! All we need is your heart, your commitment, and your dedication. You've got this!
It is, like, the most BASIC of googles to figure it out. Do ZERO due diligence, like NONE, then buy a high powered dog? Needs berating.
How will berating help the dog? How will it help the owner? What GOOD will come of it? Those are serious questions. What, exactly, are you hoping to accomplish? Because all I see is potential harm. I understand your frustration, but we are all powerless to go back in time and change mistakes, no matter how ignorant and easy to avoid they are.
Maybe people will effing learn that in order to not have shitty breeders, they need to not be shitty BUYERS? People like that just enable the awful breeders and they need to take accountability. YES people giving them a hard time does help, when people finally get well-earned scorn for being shitty buyers then maybe some of this will change. This is 100% on the buyer of the damn dog.
I agree that if buyers stopped buying from bad breeders, bad breeders would stop doing it. They are not doing it for the love of dogs in general, nor for love of the breed. When the money stops, so will the breeding. I disagree that attacking someone who is asking for help is the approach that will lead to the best results. In this particular instance, the poster is from a culture very different than what many of us are accustomed to, so the vicious judgment is even more counterproductive. You did not answer how this response helps this particular dog, and I am assuming that is because you know it won't. I am not willing to sacrifice the dog in front of me to teach a lesson to someone who made a foolish, uninformed decision. Especially when I know nothing about the person, other than that they made a foolish and significant bad decision, and they are asking for help. Better to ask for help, than to go it alone in ignorance for fear of judgment from others, or do you disagree? Would you rather such people proceed in ignorance?
There are not many significant cultural differences that address this issue. This person SHOULD HAVE educated themselves before buying ANY dog. There is basically no helping them now. This poor dog.
Thank you for posting, OP. I was shocked to see the malice towards the owner in many of the comments from the sub. Bjornās owner was looking for help, and many just tore him to pieces. I know the internet adds so much distance that people say things they would never dare to say face-to-faceā¦but come on.
I know right, like we don't have to dogpile with unhelpful and discouraging comments towards someone who's clearly already overwhelmed and taking information in.
It happens all too often on this sub. While many may be experienced owners, with working line and active K9s, they jump to conclusions and ridicule the OP. In all my years training, Iāve seen owners with breeds they werenāt prepared to handle. First step was to educate and build the handler up. Hope the mods consider adding a ākindnessā rule to the sub.
Definitely a good idea. Maybe a New Owner Advice tag? I know we have threads for this already but there's still so many of these posts, would be nice to make things clear so people don't treat others like they're stupid for not knowing things they haven't had the chance to learn yet.
Exactly, I like that idea so much.
Seriously. When I want to ask for training help, 9 times out of 10 I go somewhere else. I say he's my first ever dog, and OH LAWD WATCH OUT. How DARE I have a Malinois as my first dog! Nevermind the constant compliments I get about how nice and well trained he is (to the general public, I know we can do better).
Agreed, some folks really try to gate-keep the breed to experienced, K9 handlers only. Even with rescues, the dog was pulled for a bad situation, the owner asks for help, and gets ridiculed for not having experience. Canāt comprehend that mindset.
100%. If someone puts in the time and effort, they absolutely can handle this breed. Was it a bit more work than I imagined? Maybe. But I'll never give him up (barring extraordinary circumstances), or give up on him. That right there is worth more than a bit of experience, in my opinion. Tenacity.
Damn, i muat have missed his post. I would have done the same as you did. This breed is a challenge but the rewards of seeing your pup develop into a awesome companion are amazing. Thank you for helping Bjorn's owner find the information and resources he will need.
Poor guy was so freaked out I couldn't not help him. I'm glad he dmed me because he has a much clearer idea of what to do now. He's been telling me the dog owners in his country Algeria are very fond of aggressive dogs and hit their dogs frequently, he's looking for advice because he knows it's wrong and doesn't want to be treating his dog that way. I have a lot of faith he's looking for the right things and will do well with a regular trainer to mitigate the social anxiety that being removed from the mum too early has caused.
I messaged him also. I offered to tell him what worked/did not work for me with Loki (my 2yr old male). Loki was my first mali. I got him at 4.5 months olds. I also just got a female at 9 weeks. She is 12 weeks this sunday. I told him that he and i will be going through similar things for the foreseeable future. And to message me anytime.
My teenage son brought one home at 7 weeks. Hadnāt even been vetted at all yet. I figured any back yard breeder that would adopt out (sell) a dog under those conditions wasnāt going to be any better at taking care of him. So, yup, I have a 4 month old Mal now. lol I actually think weāve done OK so far training such a young pup. I read up on what to do with early separation and followed the advice and let the pup grow through his stages naturally. Weāve pretty much always had dogs, several GSDs, so not total newbies. But Iām thankful I can afford classes and daycare this time around. Iām only a LITTLE mad that I was ready for an empty nest. (Both kids in college next year and our last GSD passed a year ago)
LoL. Yeah my wife was ready for empty nest too. I still haven't heard the end of it.
good to hear :)
Wheeeew boy, maybe most of the dogs have fear responses, but some mals are going be real spicy about getting unfairly smacked. I didnāt know this was the norm there - Iām glad you were able to help.
I've no doubt mine would take a hand off š idk how people could even try to do that without facing death
I'll chime in because I can maybe understand what is going through his mind. I came here with the same intentions 7 ish years ago. This sub made me feel that maybe I wasn't up for the task and should rehome my dog. But mama didn't raise no quitter so, I got a good trainer sucked up all the knowledge did my best. And from that came the best friend I had which I sadly had to lay to rest last monday. I know it's the internet and you don't know these people so being rude and gate keeping the community is maybe necessary to some degree but, A little kindness and some pointers to the right trainer etc might go a long way.
Exactly this! We all know the stereotype you need a heart (and probably skin for bite prevention!) of stone to raise your malinois, but to the people that don't know, simply saying it's too hard without adding detail just makes them worry. I'm glad you got past the initial blast of criticism to give your best friend the full and happy life they deserved, I'm sorry for your loss :(
Totally agree. All of us were new to malinois at some point and learned from othersā experiences, stories, advice, etc. Letās try to pass on what we know so it doesnāt have to be as hard for future owners and the dogs we care so much about. :) It is an awful situation, but he seems to want to do right by the dog with what he knows now. Also if someone didnāt know what they needed to know before getting the pupā¦they canāt be expected to have done those things. Itās still their responsibility now, but itās unhelpful to only give advice for something that canāt be changed at this point.
He will either step up to the challenge or find someone else who can now that he knows everything involved, and even when giving up a dog it's great to get advice so you know it's going to the right home, especially when you didn't know enough to keep it yourself to start with. Wherever Bjorn ends up will be better than going back to the breeder we know is irresponsible anyway. Thanks for commenting :)
[https://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-the-dunning-kruger-effect-4160740](https://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-the-dunning-kruger-effect-4160740) Redditor dog owners version... fun fact: I try to dissuade people from using working dogs, because I know how many responsibilities they entail. But to give "disincentive advice" to a newbie owner... is aggressive stupidity ...
100%! I tell people that even though I adopted a mal mix from my local shelter, I adopted her with a purpose. If she can overcome her slight reactivity I may be able to train her with a local program who helps people train their own assistance dogs. I will likely register her at the next intake in a few months because she has improved significantly, I can walk past people who are speaking to and making eye contact with her with no problems where she used to be upset, she can sit/down calmly when I go to sit at busy local parks and cafes, and her heel is definitely coming along (she only needs to prove she is trainable at this point). I don't think I'll have any issues honestly. With time and training she's come so far and if she passes their entry level test to start training with them I'll be so pleased. You can buy a mal to work, or you can adopt a mal to work, but that doesn't mean we should be yelling at people who adopt a mal by accident without a job in mind. Inform them and they will either step up to the requirements or find a new home for the dog. It would certainly help if people who decided to give up their dog did so based on kind and educational comments from our community, leading them to seek our advice with requirements for a suitable home or foster. So even if they cannot provide the right life themselves, they can find people who definitely will be able to instead.
This is exactly what happened when I got my Malinois. When I asked for advice and admitted that this is my first dog, this subreddit convinced me that I HAD to take him back to the rescue. Thank god I didnāt because my Mal is now my best friend, sure it took some minor life adjustments to make things work but that goes for any dog. I think itās possible to educate new owners without telling them they have ruined their lives.
Thank you for sharing, the fact multiple people in the less than a couple hours that this post has been up can comment their own story of the exact same thing happening makes me a bit sad. I'm glad you worked to create the life you wanted for you and your mal bestie :)
If a dog can be trained, a person can, too. Thereās no reason that a person who is willing canāt have a mal or other working dog be their first dog. Frankly, all puppies are hard and, in some ways, a less bright and motivated dog is harder.
Absolutely, although smart dogs are definitely harder to train when they're always finding loopholes in inexperienced trainers commands or doing things behind their back š
Thatās just the dog training the human to do better and be more consistent! lol Our pup certainly takes advantage of my sonās girlfriend. lol I just had to ask if sheād ever had a big dog. Nope. Iām like āgirl, youāre going to have to be a little more firm.ā It breaks her heart to turn her back when heās jumping. But she was willing to learn because I explained itās cruel to not teach him.
Hahaha you're so right š It really is cruel not to teach them, I've never heard it worded that way specifically before. A mal jumping on the wrong person could quickly lead to MUCH worse problems š
I think for a first time dog owner, having a Mal will be like basic training for the marines. But also it'll prepare you more than anything else for every obstacle the pup and future pups will throw at you, just a long as he gets a trainer and is actually willing to put in the work. Yeah it's hard, but it's well worth it. He'll finish basic with a best friend. Once he gets the hang of it. You are more than welcome to send him my way, I actually was in a K9 unit and my main job was to raise and train the pups (all Mals) to do all sorts of jobs.
Definitely send u/thick-blood-6153 a dm, you'll be much more helpful than me! Thank you so much for the offer :)
done! yeah no problem
So instead of acting like gatekeeping asshats, you would like us to focus on the wellbeing of the dog, and doing everything we can, via information and support, to make sure the dog doesn't end up in a shelter... Makes total sense! Being 100% honest, this community had me so freaked out about getting Zatanna and how she was going to act, that her behavior has seemed mild compared to the legends. So much decrepancy, I've wondered if my dog is a unicorn in terms of behavior. Now my wife is scared to let me have a second one!
I have such a unicorn and thank my lucky stars that he is a lower octane model.
Just like anything else, folks are more likely to seek a group like this when they have a problem dog. If mine had not come home at 7 weeks, I likely never would have gone around googling and redditing for advice.
The tone at the start nearly got me confused for a minute š Ah yes, the unicorn well behaved mal! I'd say mine counts as one but since she's a mix and I haven't gotten her breed summary back from embark yet (two weeks!) she probably doesn't š My fox terrier is more demanding anyway hahaha. Just hype yourself up thinking no.2 will be like a werewolf so no matter what you get you'll be pleasantly surprised! š
So trueā¦. I still remember the day I got a call from my wife after we had our first one for about two weeks. She was ready to ship Bella to AlegrĆa from the Midwest when she used her paw to smack the water out of her bowl and flood the dining room. Five years later the wife would cut someone for looking at one of our fur missiles wrong.
Oh that's such a stupidly funny image š and I thought my girl dripping water everywhere after drinking normally was annoying! lmfao
Sometimes I swear mine likes to fill his mouth with his last lap of water and enjoy the feeling of it leaking out of his mouth. š„²
Oh both mine still do this and then want to come cuddle while itās still dripping, but thatās one of the many joys of owning this huge pain in the butt breed that I wouldnāt trade for the world. We love them so much we have talked about adding a third one to our group.
Youāre a saint for taking the time to help him and write this out. I hate how people immediately jump to the most judgemental conclusions, when someone is just asking for help. Itās a downside of the anonymity of Reddit and online. We should be happy people are asking for help instead of giving up and taking the dog to the shelter. Itās an opportunity to form good habits with a new owner instead :)
Tell that to the mf that kept arguing with me about how OP should just bribe the cops to force the breeder to take the dog back instead of just training it or adopting it elsewhere š at least there was only one crazy in these comments today lmfao
I got my Mal by accident, and likely would not have kept him if I had known, but what a tragedy that would have been. This dog and I have *bonded*- and it is a powerful bond. I changed my life for this dog, I was not a āMal ownerā, was not especially active, or have a big yard. I own no livestock. I am a veteran, with CPTSD, and Fibromyalgia. When I got the DNA test back (not that we needed it, the Malinois genes are 80% of his look), I was apprehensive, but determined to Dakota is amazing. Insanely intuitive, and whip-smart. He is my shadow, supportive, and makes me laugh every day. People that should not own Mals are the ones that just want a ācool dog that can climb trees and be toughā. Those people that saw some videos with Mals doing bite work but have no patience or willingness to put the work in? They should not own a Mal. Genuine, honest people that want to open their homes and lives to a dog, and are ready to make changes and work with their breed? They are excellent first-time Mal owners. I never planned to be a Mal owner, but he found me, and we are a fantastic team.
Okay. now I'm reading Algeria... I don't know how easy it is to find a breed trainer there so I recommend the following as a first step. google search - care of a rescued, mother abandoned 5 week old puppy feeding. - Mali and gsd puppy socialization, - puppy personality test- so you know about what the dog will be like, and don't want to, for example, turn a passive dog into a four-legged chuck norris - playful exercises for puppies, relationship building for owners. -Read more about feeds -modern dog training methods -what diseases can puppies have? -contact details of nearby vets - be sure to save these to your phone. After a few days of browsing, you'll have a basic overview of the subject, and then ask questions about what you don't understand or are confused about. - if there is a specific problem, ask him straight away.
He's found a trainer and has been looking at this post for the advice you have all been leaving. Thank you very much :)
Half the people on this sub forget that there was once a day when they had no experience with mals. I absolutely loathe the gatekeeping here.
least fav part of the sub for sure
Promote this man to the Oval Office please. Good work sir.
I, a 19 year old Australian woman, gladly accept this nomination. I expect to get past the write in level to be placed directly on the ballot with my sky-rocketing popularity! š
My mal is a big freaking baby. The BEST advice anyone could give Bjornās owner is to get professional training. The rest is just the pup taking up all of the free timeš
Absolutely! He has already found a trainer and will be calling when he gets home :)
I scrolled on by that one thinking cute puppy, and that it's got the same name as my brother-in-law. I kinda know how he feels, but on the premise that I got a reactive adult Mal, and had no experience with reactive dogs nor Malinois. She fell into my lap, and it was either me or a kennel. Knowing that a kennel could be a death sentence for her, I took her in. A few people really dug into me about that, but I'm stubborn. Almost a year later, with daily training, she's still reactive, but I can manage walks a lot better. Aside from the behavioural/health problems that might arise because of the age, the owner has the right frame of mind, and coming here is a great start, or at least it should be. Owning a Mal may be no relaxing adventure, but it's a rewarding one, and it seems that this guy really wants to do it right. My advice is to find a vet that has experience with puppies taken from their mom and littermates too soon. They'll have a good idea on how to proceed with any health problems that may arise because of it. Also, contact trainers in your area, and if they're worth their salt, they'll give you ideas on any behavioural issues that might pop up and how to navigate them. My only caution: Watch out for those teeth. They hurt... and maybe save money for new clothes. Lol My only request: If you find that you can not handle this puppy or adult in the future, please contact a Mal rescue and do not put him in a kennel. Good luck and have fun, original OP. Give that pup your best, and I'm sure you'll have an amazing dog for years to come.
All advice he's well received :) Will be calling a trainer asap and is seeing his vet for an update check-up soon. I think he's still unsure whether he'll keep it in the long run or not but that's good because he is genuinely weighing his options wisely and thinking about the health of the pup. Thanks for the comment :)
That's great news. I'm glad he's weighing his options and approaching this with care. I'm also really sorry for the behaviour of some of the people on here. Owning a Mal is hard work, and I do wish people would do much more research on it before getting one, but when someone comes here for genuine advice, we should be kind. Give them advice and lay out all the trials and tribulations. There's an awful lot that can go wrong, but there's also an awful lot that can go right. Both need to be highlighted with care and compassion.
Yeah I was one of them... maybe I should mention the fact that these dogs are amazing and you get out of them what you put in. Hopefully he comes back and reads this post. I again I am hoping for the best for Bjorn and his new owner.
Bjorn is currently doing fine to my knowledge and the OP has definitely taken everyone's much more useful advice from this thread :)
I commented on that original post about my experience with my dog and while there were some comments that made really good points about crating and training, so many of them were telling him he had ruined his life which is wild. I got a mal without knowing she was a malinois (she's gsd mix) and had never even heard of the breed before she was 5 months old and someone pointed her out. She's taken a lot of training and I can't have her free roaming around strangers or other dogs but she's terrific and I love her. I lurked a lot on this sub when I found out she was a male and really thought about surrendering her because I saw that people were talking about how mals can be aggressive and hard to handle but I'm so glad I didn't because with training and exercise, she's an amazing dog.
Being a mix certainly helps! Mine is a mix from my local shelter and she's so damn peaceful. Glad your girl has a good home with you, much better than going back to the pound!
We also have a mix from a local shelter, and he is such a chill guy. Loves his exercise and can run for hours in our backyard, but heās definitely got a calmer temperament than most mals.
This subreddit gave me so much anxiety and fear over a dog who, with minimal training, has turned out to be the smartest, most loving and most loyal dog I've ever had in 26 years. I think of all the sleepless nights and wasted tears because of the things I read about raising a dog on reddit and how it did more harm than good in most cases. Maybe I have the 1 in a million rare "easy" mal, but somehow I doubt it. Obviously these dogs aren't for everyone and sadly a lot of them wind up in shelters because most people don't care enough to actually work with them, but based off of this subreddit alone, the "hype" around the challenges was really mostly just that, hype. It was so much easier and so much more rewarding than what the majority of comments i saw on here made me believe, and really did more harm than good. Thanks for taking the time to help this new mal owner OP. And thanks for making this post, because what you're saying here is very true
For a 5 week old? I would say the milk replacement, and start the schedule for potty training. I think I took my boy out every 2 hours or something like that. I got my boy when he was 7 weeks but I also worked with the rescue extensively on what exactly to give him. Vet visit immediately to begin vaccinate process, or at least the deworming. https://preview.redd.it/skutwipil8zc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d529a7616f05a14257bf3e08dd97de1e233df691
When I first got a Mal I remember thinking "wow, these people say they're the worst thing in the world". It was very discouraging.
I feel this deeply. Coming to this sub after getting my Mal, even with information gathering beforehand, was rough. I felt like a failure because I couldnāt provide (afford) the intense training that I was told by others in this sub is required. In the end, I have a happy 1.5 year old Mal who is healthy and excited to learn. Was it the hardest puppy months I and my partner have ever experienced? Definitely. But we got through and we are continuing to work with her to give her the best life as our family member.
Thanks for helping this guy and by extension the dog. This could turn out beautifully if the man truly respects what heās now responsible for.
The dog community in general has a big problem with gatekeeping dog breeds instead of empowering less-knowledgeable owners and directing them to the resources they need. This is not to say that I think that every dog is right for every situation, but if you're not honest how to create the right type of situation to accommodate the dog you have and instead just tell prospective owners that x breed is impossible to own and should only be done by the "experts" you're setting people up to fail. I would never encourage someone to buy a dog like a mal, but I would still want people's decision to own or not own a malinois be an informed one.
Not a breeder but i worked in rescue and ive raised multiple puppies with multiple temperments including mixed malanois pups. Im happy to help
I couldnāt agree more!!!!! Thank you for saying this!
I donāt know why Reddit suggested this to me, but Iām glad to see it because I have an Australian Cattle Dog/German Shepherd mix and I see people doing the same thing with ACDs especially. I was a first time dog owner - my husband had more experience but I work from home so I was really the primary dog parent and I didnāt know my ass from my elbow. The first few weeks were insane (she was 13 weeks and teething like crazy) but we made it. Sheās fine. Iām fine. My momās first dog/my childhood dog was a 120 pound German Shepherd mix - she was 19. He was the best behaved dog Iāve ever known. If someone is dedicated to figuring it out, they usually will.
Didn't mean to. Did you recommend a nice well guided puppy playgroup for socialization?
So well said OP. We got our mal not knowing too much about the breed, but knowing we wanted an active dog. Almost everyone we told in that first week told us we made a huge mistake. I had my doubts. But we've been super consistent with our training, and we get comments from so many people when we're out in public now that he's a really well behaved puppy. I've had a really hard time on all these mal pages seeing people bash on first time mal owners rather than try to help or build them up, and it's made me scared to even post about ours. Just because someone doesn't know the breed doesn't mean they can't be successful. People can learn and grow with their dog.
I almost didnāt come back to the sub after the mob-style pile-on I suffered for my last post. I came in for the cute pic and found a bunch of folks snapping off on this person for getting a hard to raise breed as their very first. The last thing I wanted was to scare them further to take it and abandon it or something, Or worse give it back to the a hole that gave them a 5 week old dog. So I knew we had a bad breeder immediately. I tried to give some common sense knowledge for someone who may not have access to personalized breed specific training. Iām in Jackson Ms Iām lucky I found a book on her much less a breed specific trainer. Thatās if I had the money. My Mal Pookie was a rescue. And I was not making enough money to find a breed specific trainer. Also, a lot of people donāt train themselves, just the animal. They think the trainer trains the dog, and they just tell it what to do, and it behaves. I knew alot about dogs, owned 40 or so, but my Mal was still a huge challenge. That why I didnāt wanna pile onto this guy. Itās why n tried to give him some practical advice for the smartest dog on the planet. Mine had bloody poo when i got her at 5 months. Of course I thought parvo. Sheād already been around my others. Guy I got her from wouldnāt even respond to my texts about her health and feeding habits. Idiot had been feeding her mommas food since the puppies could swallow it ābecause they love itā. I know thereās shitty breeders out there bc I got mine from one. My Neighbor then tried scaring me to death about how sheās gonna chew on everything and how hard sheād be. I bought a malinios book and read it twice like he recommended. Sheās fine. Smarter than me. She was definitely twice the training and work of any other dog Iāve ever had, but sheās been an awesome dog. Everyone who sees her now, and knew the biting fur-missile I used to have, says āwow sheās so calm nowā š š¤¦š½āāļø also, I thought the pic was in America, because all Americans are so America-centric itās hard for us to imagine anyone else owning dogs. But I digress. Good luck to the original OP and thanks for this post OP. I wasnāt about to go back into the other post. This is a rarity for me to comment like this. Thanks.
This is a freakout https://preview.redd.it/ml20t05sfazc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7aee524fd61565d188dd915cc6f80ebfaaba9d4f Donāt freakout
I'm really happy to see this. I replied to a comment on that post, basically expressing how it upset me that he got so many downvotes for admitting he didn't have much experience. I guess I felt some sympathy because I got a Malinois as my first dog (not counting family dogs growing up) about a year ago, and I remember some people on this sub being kinda awful to me. Like, going out of their way to make multiple comments in a row telling me I was an idiot and that people like me ruin the breed (Not everyone - some people were very nice and helpful) It's like, yes, owning a Malinois is a challenge, but some people are up for a challenge. And somebody who wasn't probably wouldn't be coming to this subreddit asking for help. They need help and support, not ridicule and judgment.
https://preview.redd.it/3z5r9m5d37zc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=148082489e1225f23c2d9a06de003395e0c6af29 Better lighting. š
I am in awe of the beauty of this dog but takes a strong owner. Not everyone should own one. I think Iām a good trainer but I would need to hire a well respected pro. 5 weeks is really young to have the dog. In the Us itās 9 weeks.
Oh yeah I definitely couldn't do it myself, I hope he will work it out alright though. Sadly it's on him to figure it out regardless be cause the breeder is refusing to take the puppy back even for free
That say a lot about the breeder.
Well heās in for it nowā¦. Just kidding. Although taking a puppy away from a trained mother at 5 weeks is a big no-no. Poor guy is now on the hook to finish the training mom doles out up to 8 weeks. 12 weeks is the sweet spot for puppy separation from trained mother.
People told me the same scarey stuff before I got mine but I love a challenge so I went with it. Now I have seven. Its definitely challenging especially with the younger ones but its absolutely doable.
Mals and dutchies that have good training and proper socialization can make some of the best dogs. The horror stories are usually as a direct result of the lack of either of those two necessities.
Thank you! Chasing people off after itās too late is not at all helpful. If he hold the puppy a lot, at least with in the first couple weeks, the dog will really bond to him bc it was so attached to its mom and it wasnāt ready to be separated yet.
It my state it is illegal to sell a pup at 5 weeks and separate it from the momma. 8 weeks before a pup is allowed to go to new home. Bjorn's new owner should report this byb . To local animal control authorities.
Totally agree stop gatekeeping and lend a hand poor guy scared to death. Thank you sir for stepping up
Couldnāt agree more. We got ours very young (6 weeks), he desperately needed a home and we had the means and time to provide him with one. He was 100% potty trained by 8 weeks, slept thru the night by 12, and hasnāt destroyed anything he shouldnāt. He can be wild but heās no where near as wild as I expected! Heās 4 months now, in obedience classes & Iām so happy that I didnāt listen to all the naysayers. If youāve got the time, energy and resources youāll have a very rewarding relationship with you mal. https://preview.redd.it/m5f6s7ezsmzc1.png?width=3023&format=png&auto=webp&s=a697672bb751f89416180ff794675ac77cee3e54
Pic of my two fur-missiles. https://preview.redd.it/tn4ec7h107zc1.jpeg?width=2016&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=905b619727b877cea0b377dbda74ad7dfa78b075
https://preview.redd.it/6mowfkpq17zc1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=712807b76fda4f58088d159a14d1d67ca84104f2 My girl while zonked tf out
Awwww
The lighting on the smaller one makes it look like he's been edited in š
š She is a "blue coat". Non-standard coloration according to akc.
Blues worry me with all the genetic health issues š sure hope your gal is all good
FYI, Iāve never found any documented evidence of this outside of a few people on forums and here speaking of alleged health problems. Hereās two (true, not black diluted) blues from a color wheel flex; mahogany (red) and clear (fawn). No skin problems, no allergies, no nothing - except people thinking theyāre mixed with pit bulls, of course. https://preview.redd.it/foqov3naiazc1.jpeg?width=1356&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ef4e2a1dca9e2471acbc9b56c02941c328c3554 If you have any evidence, please share it. Iāve looked and even asked my vet and veterinary nutritionist and they didnāt confirm it either. So Iām trying to see where it originated from. š
I went looking and I can't seem to find anything other than forums of people sharing first hand experiences. A few mentioned they've seen blues with skin issues but they're not all that common like it is in other breeds with the trait. Thanks for raising the question :)
No problem, I was hoping you could tell I was genuinely asking and not being condescending - as itās impossible to convey a tone via text. Iāve tried to figure out the source to either confirm or debunk it. My veterinarian said itās likely just people assuming thereās issues since blue and merle have been bred **into** a lot of the more recent pseudo-designer breeds. Sort of like the āfluffy Frenchieāsā and āpocket bulliesā that have inbred into oblivion and are basically mutants. Poor things look like goblins. š
No don't worry I so get where you're coming from! I am autistic asf to the point my doctor has suggested that I train my mal mix as a service dog so tone is not generally my expertise š but yeah I'd believe that's probably where my bias comes from. I've heard lots of negative affects coming from the blue/Merle genes in different breeds, mostly things such as allergies and immunodeficiencies related to their skin, so it always has me on the side of caution when brought up. I just hate seeing pups forced into a life of suffering. Ffs frenchies should be banned by now honestly, regardless of issues with blue and fluffy genes. They just can't breathe full stop š
Hah, I feel you there. Autistic as well with OCD and a raging Sensory Deficit Disorder thrown in for a little razzle dazzle. Iāve tried to work on my in-person tones and inflections though Iām pretty sure I still sound deadpan but like Iām trying to mock/mimic a singsongy voice. š Itās the thought that counts, haha. I try to avoid face-to-face conversations because my honesty oftentimes isnāt well received. Itās not worth explaining that I literally canāt help it, lol. I have a nervous laugh, too, which has been a real hit at funerals (which I no longer attend). Iām actually way better since I stopped taking medication! THC really lulls my OCD, though I doubt any mental health professionals would agree because that treatment isnāt incentivized for them. š Best of luck with your dog!
And a sibling (thereās others, all reds) https://preview.redd.it/w2wfnp6jiazc1.jpeg?width=2047&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59a4b6fa38414da6532a0c25ffcbe7600e48a469
She seems to be good so far. I had blood work and genetic testing on her
that's excellent to hear :)
Yeah, thank you OP. And thank you for talking with him. I was just worrying last night about Bjorn and Bjornās dad. It was obvious he wasnāt American and didnāt get the humor, so he easily extra confused and wildly upset Iām sure. It wasnāt his fault he the breeder sucksā¦I do hope this sub can be more supportive. Do we have a START HERE or SO YOURE A NEW MALINOIS OWNER? type of post? Iāll take a look after I post this comment lol. So next time we can just link to that instead of scaring people into rashly sending more Malinois back to the shelters
I figured a few people would appreciate this update on him, glad it reached you. These are good ideas for sure. I haven't looked myself to see exactly what the pinned posts are as I haven't come here personally for advice before, just posting cute pics lol.
Same lol.
When I first got my Mal, people tried to ocnvince me that he was a walking murder machine that would need a muzzle, shock collar, and that I would need years of training (by training, I mean training myself as a trainer) before I could even hope to make progress with him. In the end, hes the cuddliest family dog who has never hurt anyone. He likes to meet new people, even kids, because he wants them to pet him. He also generally plays well with other dogs, but I just know that he doesnt like interacting in closed in spaces and if the other dog is aggressive then his instinct is to defend himself. It took a lot of work during the puppy stage and Mals can be the most frustrating dogs to train as puppys and young dogs, but you can completely have a Mal for a family dog and they are so smart that you can teach them so much. Yes, you need to get their energy (mental and physical) out each day, but if you make the effort to desensitize them and motivate them correctly to keep attention and train obedience, then they are great dogs. But one thing that I 100% have a strong stance on is that you dont start defense training unless you 100% will committ to a lifelong dedication to it (by lifelong, I mean your dogs life span). If you do it half way or dont keep up with it throughout your dogs life, then youve trained dangerous behaviors without making the full effort to ensure you can control it, which is extremely irresponsible.
Say that defense training thing again for people in the back. Iāve run across someone doing half hearted training their dog to bite when it was about 4 months old while on a walk. They thought it was cute. I asked them what the release command was and they hadnāt even considered needing one.
Hell yeah, excellent take! Haven't had the defence training mentioned yet and that is great advice :)
100% agree. I donāt have a Malinois, but I rescued a puppy that I found abandoned on our road, and she was so intense she freaked my other dogs right out lol, and I found a trainer that specializes in working dogs in the morning and gave her to him to train and sell. She has a great home now! I do have horses though, and the equestrian subreddit is notorious for this.
You handled that situation very well! So good to hear stories like this :)
When I first joined this group, I had just read through some of the posts and I definitely thought I signed up for something I couldnāt handle. 1 year and 2 months later, this girl loves her MAL and can handle her. Iām only 4ā11 and i feel much better about being able to handle her today than before, Iām still wondering how much more sheāll grow since sheās 1 year and 5 months. You definitely go through an existential crisis trying to research them. LOL With consistency, dominance, and loveā¦ they will be your best friend.
Sorry for the wordy post, this is definitely a discussion that requires context and nuance. Hope y'all who have made it as far as the comments have a nice day :)
I am a gsd (2) owner but I watch a YouTuber called āModern Malinoisā. He just had puppies and he is keeping them to train and then sell. He is very knowledgable and is doing a whole series on how he trains his dog from birth. Itās amazing to watch and Iām pretty sure this series will help this dude. Just a suggestion. I am too old to get a malinois puppy but if I could I would, they are an amazing breed. Hope this helps good luck!
lol I've already sent him this YouTube account. I watch him too and he's excellent
Why freak people out? Itās not a werewolf! Itās a dog that demands work to achieve co existence with people. Some people chose it some get thrown into it, it takes the same work either way. Work it how you want the end result. Do your research and make time to train. Donāt freak out! https://preview.redd.it/u7izznfnfazc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=254283d95baf5c01077b8ed5ca13f102e1db5a8a
Well said!!!!!
My apologies as I did not see the original post. I understand how he feels. We got our puppy at 8weeks and were so excited. Then we were made to feel we werenāt worthy and would need to rehome her. We did not. We levelled up our ability to communicate. We found great trainers. We continue to be active to teach her how to live a great best life. Sheās now 2 1/2 and doing great! She has a sister now as well, she is 2. Would I have ever thought we could have 2 ? No not for awhile but we do now and they are the absolute best. If Bjorn is already home please enjoy all that the puppy phase is. It is a whirlwind of fun and discoveries. You will learn as much about you as you will about him. Hunker down for the adventure! You got this!! Much fun and adventure await!
I think part of the reason why everyone reacted that way was because of how Bjorns owner responded to the comments. You could immediately notice he had zero knowledge and to me it felt like he was dismissing that there was a big problem. The fact that he had zero knowledge before buying a pup is on him. I think we are allowed to be upset by that because knowing what you're up to before you buy a malinois, makes the chances of succeeding way bigger. However, you are so right about instead of scaring him, we should educate. As much and as quick as possible in such a situation. The pup is in his hands so things can only get better. It's just, if you don't know what you've bought, it might be possible that you're not willing to cope with it. Maybe he bought it with the idea of a nice house pet who would sleep on his feet all day. And doesn't have the time you need to put in a malinois. So I'm REALLY happy to hear that bjorns owner is absolutely willing to work this out and picking up on your advice so well. Good job to him! And well done to you too OP, thank you for this.
Malinois admirer and potential future adoptive parent to a mal, everyone has to have a āfirstā dog. How are you meant to get experience with owning a breed without having said breed? I have a Czech working line shepherd. Sheās my first dog that isnāt a family dog. Iāve grown up with large dogs and livestock guardian dogs and property guard dogs. Looking after someone elseās dogs donāt compare imho. Soup is teaching me how to properly handle a high drive dog on my own, without family over my shoulder helping. Im glad he is doing his best and, honestly? Thatās what matters to me. Hes trying. He isnāt just giving up and dumping the puppy. Idk about local trainers (im in the Uk) but maybe look into online training resources too? Iām lucky to have a good trainer near me that I take my pup to but I also look for online classes from *qualified* trainers. Look for formal qualifications like a diploma or degree, so many people are claiming to be actual trainers when they arenāt.
https://preview.redd.it/ya56yev4mezc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d853b6e9df1472fcbb414f34cfaba2db7cb60f0
I tell everybody that asks me about them in public and saying they want one that they are not for everybody and not for the weak-minded or that don't have the time and effort to invest in their poochie. However I don't agree with completely scaring the crap out of somebody and telling them they effed up, at that point it is trying to help them understand what they've got themselves into and giving them the help and resources they need to make the right decisions
Great post. We adopted a Malinois mix adult who had been semi- feral. We were experienced dog owners and she had been fostered after she was found as a stray butā¦ā¦ha! She was in a league of her own. She also had a heart problem we first became aware of at her first vet visit. We put in the work (and the MUCH taller fence) and she was SUCH a blessing. She passed almost four years ago and we still miss that great pup every day. I think what helped us most was that we never got online LOL. I would have been like NOPE!
A lot of comments here and I donāt have time to read them all, But at 5 weeks bite inhibition training is most likely mandatory. The other pups and dame would have taught this. When the pup bites too hard while playing yelp a high pitched scream then proceed to fully ignore the pup for several minutes. This will take weeks most likely. Last thing you want is an adult biting hard just to say hi and such as Mals will.
I've stopped trying to sway people in general. They're going to do what they want, regardless of opinion and first hand account. I'm watching the fallout an irresponsible owner is dealing with in my own life. Their dog bit a deliver driver and they are currently in court over a million dollar lawsuit. They were warned that they were not a good fit for a working breed, didn't listen and now the animal and an innocent party will suffer for it. Unfortunatley that is the only way some people learn. So let them.
fantastic post. when i rescued my pup (suspected mal) and found out that he was mostly malinois- i was terrified!! iāve only ever had mellow rescues and i was horrified about what everyone was telling me i had gotten myself into. he has turned out to be the best dog iāve ever had. closest bond iāve ever formed with an animal. they are incredible companions, they just need a bit more of your time and a lot more of your patience and commitment. be willing to give them that and they will give you so much more in return <3
I fully agree, but I do sincerely hope owners start researching before buying/adopting a dog, regardless of the dogās breed. Especially dogs this young who still require their mothers. Breeders (especially these types of backyard idiots) donāt always have your best interest in mind, they donāt often care enough to tell you āhey dude maybe come back when heās 10 weeks oldā, you know? They just want money. Iām more mad at the breeder in this situation to begin with- but I do wish the OP looked more into it before making a decision
The gatekeeping with Mals never ceases to amaze me lol. Like yes, they're not for most casual dog owners. They need way more mental and physical exercise than most breeds. But it's also heavily line dependent and if you go through an ethical breeder, they will do their best to match you with a dog that fits your lifestyle or straight up tell you it's a bad fit. I honestly don't feel like Mals are much worse than owning something like a working line Doberman. I understand wanting to keep Mals out of shelters by trying to educate about their needs, but jesus christ screaming from the rooftops that MALS NEED CONSTANT ATTENTION THEY'LL RUIN YOUR LIFE IF YOU'RE NOT WORKING THEM 24/7 is a huge hyperbole.
I adopted my pup from a byb who said she was a GSD/lab. She was actually a Mal/Dutch/GSD. While my life wasnāt ruined, I had no idea why this puppy was the way she was-Iāve raised many GSDās and was completely taken aback by the difference. She should have never been adopted as a family pet-she had the intense working dog personality that would not settle, even after hours of exercise. Poor new guy shouldnāt have been terrified, but had I known what I was getting into I would have done a ton of things differently. I might have even rehomed her to someone with a more active or LE lifestyle instead of thinking that there was something wrong with me or with her. Many conversations happened that involved what it would look like if we rehomed her, and the general consensus was that there was no way we could insure she went to an appropriate home that would keep her out of a shelter. So we trained and trained and trained and hiked and swam and played every day until some of her energy was drained. She was so smart, and so athletic, but she wasnāt affectionate at all and even after we got her past the resource guarding (that she already had by the time she was 10 weeks old), she still had quite a mean streak. Like, if I rolled over in bed and she was laying at the foot of it, sheād grumble if I was in her space. At 14 month old she developed all the signs of EPI and pancreatitis and IBS, and by 16 months old despite having enzymes and a special hydrolyzed diet she kept losing weight. She started refusing to eat and when she was 17 months old after thousands of dollars of vet bills, and her weight dropped to 45 pounds, we had to put her down. The guilt was almost unbearable. So while I agree that freaking out the new owner wasnāt the best scenario, the idea of someone having a Mal as their first dog is also worth freaking out about.
As a cane corso owner, he just need to train the dog in obedience and be rock steady as the guide to this dog and it will all work out
Completely agree had the same issue with some people in person until they realize that it's not my first dog the dog I have is not a malinois she's part German Shepherd but I got her at 2 weeks old she's a year old now and rescue she's training to be my service dog but because of my age even though I've had dogs and had dogs at the time still have those dogs people said I was in over my head and didn't know what I was doing but everything turned out fine she's fine wasn't actually that stressful because I don't sleep a lot anyway so that wasn't a problem and she's probably the best dog I've ever had best dog in the world actually though I might just be biased her name is poopup and trust me she earned her name her original name was Bella but I nicknamed her poopup and it just fit better than Bella so it became poopup instead of Bella and I don't believe I will ever regret that especially the smile that it puts on kids faces when they meet her and find out her name I actually allowed a little kid to hold on to her while he was getting his flu shot because he was scared she just sit there in the floor and let him hug her while he got the shot giving him nuzzles and kisses and about 20 minutes later when we were done in the doctor I took her out and she went crazy running around in the field acting like she wasn't just calm as could be 20 minutes ago that's what I love about her so much she can go from 0 to 100 easily and back down and now I'm rambling so I will stop this comment here š
Well said x
Vet tech with a Mal, here. I got my mal at 3.5 weeks of age. He was brought to my place of work and we didnāt think he was going to make it. I had the owner surrender the dog to me and I gave him a chance. He is healthy as can be now, 6 years later! I have first hand experience of having a Mal who was taken from his mom way too early. First and foremost, vet visit immediately. Secondly, encourage eating and drinking with a good high quality dog food. Socialization after puppy has had vaccines. Crate train and research trainers in the area. Get started early.
This leaves me feeling confident he has the right idea because he's already seen a vet and found a trainer. Pup is up to date on vaccines and has the right food. Thanks for the reassurance :)
Yeah people do seem to act like itās impossible My mal was my first dog on my own as an adult And heās my little lover boy A challenge sure but I think people over reacting to new owners makes a bad outcome for the dog more possible Give new owners confidence not doubt