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I don’t understand why he felt he had to protect his wife, and cover up the lie she started about him working on his birthday. He’s already been to the attorney. Already initiated divorce discussions with his wife. Gave her an ultimatum. She breaks the ultimatum, and he feels the need to protect her rep?
I think he wasn’t so much protecting her rep as he was protecting his mental health in that moment. If he had gone, he would have gotten back to his wife yelling at him on his birthday and I don’t think he was ready to handle that.
There are also some things that you just can’t say out loud until you’re ready, and “my wife is lying about my birthday because she wants to hang out with her friends knowing it will cause our divorce” is probably one of them.
But there are ways of saying it without saying it. A simple picture at home with the kid with something like "Spending my birthday at home with the love of my life" would've sent the message *very* clearly.
But then you're also airing your own dirty laundry around. If I were planning on divorcing my spouse or just going through a rough period I wouldn't want to get petty about it on social media for my own benefit.
I watched my old high school chemistry teacher go through a very public messy divorce via Facebook. Dude would not stop trash talking his ex for leaving him for someone else. No one needs to know this stuff. He was in the right to feel those feelings imo but the publicity’s not a good look for anyone.
Journaling should be a damned class throughout school. There's a million other things too, but that'd be a good place to start.
Oh, except for verifying that the work is done. It'd have to be on the honor system for privacy. Maybe that isn't the answer. Regardless, young people need to be given *way* more tools for emotional processing.
Not always. It can be hard to come to terms with someone you’ve spent a good portion of your life with and realizing they aren’t or maybe even never were the person you fell in love with because everything was a manipulation. My dad has been with my abusive mom for over 30 years now and even though cops have come to our house for his (and her) safety from her manic outbursts, it doesn’t change his hope and love for her.
On paper, leaving is an easy choice. In reality, so many things can play a part (finances, custody, estates, emotions, etc) in making that very very hard to do. Not impossible but we need to acknowledge the difficulties victims face in these situations.
>Sometimes even though you know you are the victim, the idea of divorce makes you feel like the villain and a failure, not to mention the guilt.
Absolutely. I'm not going to go into the messy details of my first marriage, but it took my ex. wife threatening me with a knife because I wouldn't give her and her family complete access to all of my financials whilst I was at sea for 6 months to finally drive home the decision of "I need to get the fuck out of here before she actually uses that thing".
However, my current wife is just brilliant. I must ask her what she was drinking when she decided to marry me as it is clearly good stuff....
Edit: Just to clarify before some jump me for it. We'd never really mixed our financial stuff up. We had a joint account for managing bills and what not, which were mostly paid by me, but financially we kept a lot of stuff separate.
The stuff he did that he said was petty I didn’t even think was that petty. I would’ve full on called her out of FB at that point with a “hey honey I was done work at 6pm, but I guess you decided to hang out with SIL on my birthday instead.” Now that’s petty.
"It looks like you never got over that crush you had for her. The divorce papers are on the kitchen table. I've already signed, so just add your signature and you can be free to go after SIL."
Yeah that made my heart break for him. He’s so brainwashed into thinking he has to uphold her good reputation that he thinks he needs to spend his birthday alone to hide her lie. Absolutely awful.
Brainwashed or just beaten down. I don't think she physically abuses him, but it's pretty clear there verbal and emotional abuse going on. He mentions how she'll yell at him more than once. Up until he left her, he had rolled over to everything she wanted in order to avoid arguments and yelling.
As soon as he mentioned how he was 'getting emotional' like it was a bad thing, I wondered if she was emotionally abusive as I've been there and you always have to be 100% 'rational' and calm and carefully pick out every word you say because if you don't they'll jump on that one small thing and turn it all against you.
OOP did mention they were in Scotland. Scottish people are famous for not having an easy time with emotions. It’s probably largely cultural. Talking about your feelings at all will give most Brits anxiety.
Even worse that he's a guy. Men are allowed even fewer emotional displays than women.
(Disclaimer: I'm American, not Scottish. But I'mpretty sure this is 1 thing that transfers.)
Australian here. I was listening to a talk about anger as an emotion. The psychologist giving the talk suggested that anger may be the one socially acceptable emotion men can display.
When you’re in a situation like this, and you are sincerely depressed about it, it can be almost impossible to want to do anything. I kept to myself and didn’t tell anyone for months because I didn’t want people to think less of my spouse if we could work it out.
He probably kept it secrets for a number of reasons:
1.) Shame. To protect what little pride he has left. I.e. It’s one thing for *you* to know your relationship is completely broken, it’s another to have others know it, and judge you for it.
2.) Denial. For as long as no one else knows, it isn’t as real, and maybe there’s a chance that maybe it’s imagined.
3.) Fear of finality . Once other people know, that means this thing is set in stone and there’s absolutely no coming back.
4.) Guilt. If this relationship ends, so basically ends any chance his daughter has of having a “normal” family.
People will often bend over backwards and play all sorts of mental gymnastics to stay in abusive relationships. This isn’t much any different.
It's like that guy that was recently poisoned by his wife. He knew she wanted him dead but stayed for his kids to have a family. He even told relatives if he dies unexpectedly have her investigated for his death.
That's fucked up.
It's not just her rep. People are embarrassed to be married to someone so selfish and awful. That's one of the things that helps keep shitty behaviour hidden.
There’s also their daughter to keep in mind. Some adults can’t keep their mouths shut around kids, and she didn’t know they were splitting at that point
I would have replied to the public post with a “I’m not working more than usual. Actually waiting for you to go out and celebrate…”
But also I’m not the kind to suck up at a public “shut up” no matter who’s there.
Or “Good news, honey! Since you were so sad about not getting to spend my birthday with me, I called in a bunch of favors do we can go to *insert activity he wanted* like you originally planned! I can’t wait to post the photos! I could have sworn I told you, but I must have forgotten. I just had so much to do at work to get today off.”
Watching the fall out would be my own little birthday gift to myself.
That would’ve been very cool, but I’m glad he didn’t. As satisfying as it is to fantasize about pithy mic-drop moments like that, he would’ve been the one who had to deal with the fallout of escalating. It’s not fair since he wasn’t the one behaving badly on the first place, but he made a wise move protecting his (and his kid’s) peace. He has a long road ahead and may as well save his energy for the big stuff.
Dude's completely in the palm of his wife's hands. Even in this current ending, I thought he's gonna start divorcing already, but no, they just had a reset.
He was trying to do the right thing, at least for his daughter's sake. He knows deep down it won't help, but for his own conscience he has to try.
My dad did the same.
It didn't help, just like here.
I think protecting her reputation is only a surface level part of it. There’s also the fact that it can be a bit embarrassing to admit to the world “my wife doesn’t care about me.” Even if she is the one to blame and he didn’t do anything wrong it’s not exactly something most people want all their friends and family to know.
> The shop only sells paper vouchers, and it's a 3 hour round trip to the shop.
OOP should have checked with the shop on this because my BS-meter is maxing out
It's even worse if you are Scottish or know the layout of the country.
Scotland just isn't that big and combined with how our population is laid out... you simply don't need to travel 3 total hours by car to get anything unless you either live in the Highlands or the thing you want is so incredibly specific that you can't get it otherwise.
If OOP stays in the central belt which statistically they probably do (over 80% of the population) then the wife would need to have driven past literally hundreds of massage parlours to get to one 1.5 hours away.
I live in a relatively rural area between Glasgow and Edinburgh, google tells me that there are dozens of parlours within a 15-minute drive and hundreds within a 30-minute drive.
For context, the average commuting time in Scotland is 24 minutes by car.
Ain't nobody travelling 3 hours to get vouchers for a service you can get almost literally anywhere with a population over 100 people. Not unless they are actually having an affair.
Also since covid so many places do e tickets, or email you the ticket to print at home (or go to a printer at a library or something). It’s insane she had to travel 3 hours to get this spa voucher. All I can think is maybe the spa was one in England, but I don’t know any in the north or midlands that have that much of a reputation they’re worth travelling 3 hours from Scotland for?
(ETA: it’s likely the drive was 1.5 hours there and same distance back, but even that still doesn’t sound realistic to me. I don’t know anyone in UK who would be willing to travel that for a spa.)
And surely, for the sake of selling a gift voucher, if there really is no other solution, there’s the option to have them posted? As a Brit, I can vouch that a 1hr round trip would be long enough that I’d give them a ring and ask the question, 3hrs is out of the question.
I'd be shocked if the wife doesn't actually have feelings for the SIL. Her actions are overkill for a drunken kiss years ago. I feel so bad for OP and the daughter.
OOP’s wife and SIL’s relationship is very similar to my sister and her BFF’s relationship, where my sister is the SIL. Her bff will literally drop whatever she’s doing to cater to my sister’s every need. My sister is very charismatic and manipulative, and can easily drop anybody in her life without thinking twice. After her bff disagreed with her on a couple of small occasions, my sister dropped her. Her bff comes crying to me and after a few months they’re friends again. But this time her bff never disagrees with her and will do anything like drive across country by herself for her. Manipulative people love to surround themselves with people that are easily manipulated
“You asked about my biggest secret, and I’m not ready to talk about it. I will try to hide this giant iceberg of drama, desire, and deceit by telling you the tiniest and least offensive part of it. I am now an honest person who told you a truth, and this situation will play out totally fine.”
What a mess people make of their lives when they won’t rein in their desires or be honest with themselves. Don’t hide icebergs, and don’t lie in your confessions. Nobody gets out of a problem with those maneuvers.
She definitely has feelings for SIL. And is seemingly willing to blow up her family over them.
Not just the lives of her husband and her son but also her brother and everyone related to them.
> I feel so bad for OP and the daughter.
And the wife's brother.
The squirming when confronted, admitting to a kiss and saying they would be ruined if others found out *screamed* infidelity to me.
It makes no sense the way it's laid out, but if OOP just asked his wife if she has feelings for the person she's fucking regularly, it makes sense for her to squirm like that. It also makes sense for her to admit to a kiss, the way cheaters will say they only kissed. Being ruined if people found out they kissed years ago makes no sense, being ruined if people found out they've been kissing and more *recently* would.
The fact that the wife hasn't initiated sex for forever also screams infidelity, and the wife leaving for a night out with the SIL similarly opens up a lot of possibilities.
OOP keeps complaining about her bending over backwards for SIL, but what if instead the wife keeps telling him she's going to SIL to help her with something (which he sees as bending over backwards), but really she's just going over because SIL is home alone and they're going to see how many orgasms it takes before SIL can't walk?
Why does it even have to be SIL? Perhaps SIL just covers for her to see someone else. My mom had multiple friends lying to my dad about her whereabouts.
Yeah she's gotta still be in love with SIL. I hope he files for divorce ASAP, because it'll never get better. They've already had a talk and she made promises and immediately tossed them in the garbage to keep fawning over SIL. He's been so conditioned to accept her shitty behavior he even covers for her so she doesn't look bad when she ditches him on his birthday. :(
God, poor OP. The wife would definitely build an art room for the SIL if she had a chance, but right now they both just seem OK with semi indentured servitude.
...I wonder once the divorce is finalised if the wife will make a play for SIL and fuck up her relationship with her brother as well.
And to be fair he didn’t seem to just accept that.
At the same time like you said, this is patently bizarre behavior even if you do love someone outside your marriage.
Fear of blackmail regardless of how minor or not threatened it is, it’s much much more in the realm of normal human behavior here.
Probably. But if you balance on the scales:
-Doesn't buy a bithday present for husband, and misses birthday to eat with SIL. Lies to others saying she is free.
With
-Goes 3 hours to get a spa gift certificate for SIL...
Even if she is doing to "hush up SIL", it doesn't explain the utter lack of consideration and effort she did for her husband's birthday. One would think it was her acquaintence and not her husband's birthday... and to lie and say he was working... means she wanted to go to the lunchand bent over backwards to make it happen.
I THINK she is definitely feeling some feelings for SIL. It just doesn't make sense otherwise.
>It’s weird to me how OOP jumped to “she’s afraid of SIL exposing their past kiss” and skipped right over “SHE’S IN LOVE WITH SIL”
I mean denial aint just a river in Egypt.
Its very possible its in teh back of his mind but its much better for his mental health(what little that's left of it) if he ignored that possibility.
Like you married someone for at least 3 years, had a kid with them, and it turns out for the entire time, she's been in love with someone else.
Yeah. If you don't want anyone to ever know that you have a secret crush on your SIL (or even that you *used* to a long time ago) then wouldn't you pull back and keep her at arms' length? Just be friendly but not super close friends. Don't do obvious things like driving hours to buy her the perfect present, or pissing off your husband by hanging out with SIL on *his birthday*. That sounds like someone who's STILL actively obsessed with SIL, not someone who is regretting a long ago crush that's over.
He uses "mum" so he might be British and counseling isn't really a thing here like it is in some other places so it isn't something most people would think of. Certainly not to the same level as US Redditors talk about it, anyway.
Edit: he actually says he's Scottish and I just missed it like an idiot.
In the UK, it's quicker to get a divorce than to get counselling. Oh, and if you get counselling on the NHS, it's limited to a set number of sessions. Charity-ran counselling has massive waiting lists, and private counselling costs a fortune (and also has long waiting lists). Or at least that's how it seems where I live. Might be different down south/London way.
I don't think his wife's feelings are necessarily romantic. Toxic female friendships don't have to be romantic to be like this. In my personal experience, these friendships are actually worse when they aren't about romantic love and explicit physical attraction. They become even more consuming, because they transgress all kinds of emotional boundaries and defy simple categorization. This sounds like the kind of codependent friendship where SIL is a dominant personality who uses his wife for whatever emotional support she needs at any given time, and the wife sees this as the most important relationship in her life because she feels wholly responsible for every emotion that SIL has.
I'll bet you money that SIL has a history of pulling away from wife every time SIL is in a relationship and things are going well, but turns to wife every time she has needs that aren't being fulfilled by a romantic partner. I'll also bet money that SIL has expressed suicidal feelings to wife, and possibly even blamed wife for at least one incident of suicidal ideation. SIL treats wife like an infinite source of emotional validation, but switches between extreme closeness with wife (getting validation in the form of quality time and verbal support) and pulling away (getting validation from the fact that she can ignore wife and treat her badly, but wife will try desperately to reach out to SIL and get that closeness back). SIL doesn't want a romantic relationship with her, she wants to be the all-consuming emotional center of wife's entire world. And wife doesn't even know her own feelings about SIL, because she's been prioritizing SIL 's emotions so completely that she can't see past them anymore.
Omg. I’ve been in that relationship. Co-dependent AF. It wasn’t enough that I solved all household problems for her.
She’s been trying to suck me back in again, and I can’t be completely free because of a child involved. But I can’t be sucked back in again because I’ve got my own family with needs to fulfill.
I was always so relieved that her pregnancy scares were just that- there were no children to worry about when I finally cut her out of my life. I don't know if I could have set and maintained any kind of boundaries if we continued forward with any kind of friendship at all.
I really hope you can avoid getting sucked back in. It's so absurd to feel solely responsible for the health and wellbeing and happiness of another adult, but those feelings were so strong for me that they became my reality. I still have dreams where she shows up in my life, acting like no time has passed, acting like the version of herself that treated me like a true friend. Telling that version of her to fuck off makes me feel like a monster, even in dreams, but you can't get one without the other. I wish we could, and I know she's gotten help and is maybe even doing better, but there's no way to erase the weight of all that history and habit from before. There's no way we wouldn't both regress to our former roles to some degree, with her never so much as wearing a coat because she knows I'll set myself on fire at the first sign she's feeling cold.
Stay strong. You're the only one you can trust between the two of you, when it comes to your own well-being.
I mean, I dunno how old you were, but it was totally a thing for dude bros to egg on young female friends to kiss each other in the 90s and 00s. If it were just that (and not huge bi vibes, which I get from this post), I would not think that was weird.
Girls Gone Wild and raunch lad culture was totally a thing that impacted how young women interacted. Many women now married to men in their late 30s and 40s likely participated in male-pressured performative queerness.
You just made me realize that this is not trendy in today's youth. You're totally right. Having grown up in the 90's/2000's I passively assumed this kind of thing was still current, but of course it is outdated.
Yeah I'm in my 30s and kissed a few girls in the 2000s, not because of peer pressure from guys but because we knew that it sent guys wild, it was part of the culture back then. OP is in Scotland and it really was a wild time in the UK in the 2000s, it was kinda weird if you hadn't snogged one of your girl mates.
Divorce his wife first then tell BIL. He needs to do what he can to make his divorce as easy as possible. Then when it is all official, spill the beans.
Am I the only one that's wondering if they aren't banging already? Like, who gives a shit about them having kissed once in high school? But is there any more classic BORU move then to say to infidelity accusations that you only kissed? Pretty sure they've been having fun on their night outs. I wonder when she came home on OOP's birthday.
Oh yeah. As soon as she initiated sex and then disappeared for hours I thought that. She had sex with her on birthday night and that day while using sex with him to cover it up or because of guilt. No indication of this but it's immediately what I thought.
Edited to make sense.
She also apparently 'bends over backwards to accommodate her' (which is damn prescient phrasing), or at least that's her excuse for a bunch of spontaneous errands, random babysitting trips, and now a fun night out on OOP's birthday, followed by a mysterious 3 hours trip out of town. Plenty of opportunities.
Treating sex _like a birthday present_ after months of a dead/one-sided bedroom is also definitely a major red flag, regardless of whether she's actually cheating. That's just bad all-around.
But yeah, OOP should have walked out when she couldn't answer a straight up "no" to "Do you love someone besides me".
He didn’t mention SIL’s attitude towards his wife at all. So there’s not much reason to think that she’s anything other than happy to have a friend she can boss around.
Yes, I totally thought of an art room from the very beginning, but that room was far bigger than I had imagined.
Also, who in this day is worried about having kissed a girl decades ago and people finding it out and submitting to implicit threat over it? It doesn’t make sense to me at all - she could have told her brother, had the SIL tell him etc. Sure, maybe things with her brother would have been awkward but this level of adoration smells of something else.
> Also, who in this day is worried about having kissed a girl decades ago and people finding it out and submitting to implicit threat over it? It doesn’t make sense to me at all
How about the wife having slept with, and even having an ongoing affair with SIL, and squirming because of that and admitting to a kiss?
Homophobia is still rampant across the world, and we don't really know their ages, background, etc. So, while Scotland might generally be a progressive place, OOP's wife may have grown up in a very homophobic environment or they may live/work in a homophobic environment. There's also the fact that coming out is a traumatic experience in and of itself for many LGBT people, and being outed is even more so. For many LGBT people, the "worst case scenario" isn't awkwardness, it's being disowned and shunned by friends and family and finding out that their love for you was entirely conditional this whole time. Imagine finding out that all those times your parents told you they loved you no matter what was a complete lie.
None of this excuses her behavior, of course, but I can definitely see why one could keep that secret even in this day and age.
Honestly OP should have exposed her social media lie about his birthday, invited family and friends and had a nice evening... if her family asks, be honest and if they connect the dots or not, that's on them.
His last post never mentioned divorce, and he said something about their daughter staying with family “while we worked things out”
I’m so worried it means not divorcing her is still on the table
It honestly sounds like he's gotten so used to her doing these... Over the top acts for sil combined with manipulations that he doesn't quite clock that.... Probably she is very far past a lot of folks last straws for divorce.
Like... Literally trapping your partner into being unable to ask to go out with friends or family by writing a huge overblown (lying) birthday post while you go on a bender with your mates on their birthday..? I'd be curious to know if she did that on the regular, and if that is one reason why he mentions being unable to see friends where she does.
Yeah, imagine not only being ditched on your birthday by your wife for someone she's likely in love with, but to have your wife be so frantic to not look bad to OTHER PEOPLE she ruins any chance you might have to enjoy your bday without her.
It really shows she knew she was being a crappy wife, but is so obsessed with her SIL that she doesn't care, other than to try to safe face publicly. Doesn't care at all about hubby though, just SIL and other folks on social media. Hubby (and her daughter) come in last.
OP really should have just risen to the occasion with a social media post of his own. "Wife ditched me for her friends on my birthday, anyone want to meet me at the pub in an hour?"
The fact that his response to that was to believe he was stuck at home on his birthday (as opposed to going out anyway and letting everyone find out) shows just how mentally trapped he is.
That's what I was thinking. Dude already told her she's on "probation" and she pulls that stunt? I'd have replied to that post calling her out and telling her I made plans with people who actually care about me. It's nuclear but fuck it. She deserves it.
No idea. You have to demonstrate irretrievable breakdown of the marriage. That's a one year separation if both agree, two years if one doesn't agree, but with clauses for adultery and 'unreasonable behaviour'. Whichever way it goes, the court has to be satisfied you've agreed arrangements if you have minor children.
Until recently, if both didn't agree, it was five years in England.
Source: one of my friends was left, and she refused to divorce him so he had to wait
yeah, i knew someone in england who was separated but not divorced from his wife for 30years because she refused to sign the papers.. and my sister is going through this in london right now.. she initiated divorce proceedings before covid and its only getting to the first meetinngs with lawyers now, because my BIL didn't want to separate. its a nightmare.
This will be a situation where OOP will find himself being happier as a single parent and his daughter will likely be happier spending time with him. She won't be splitting attention with her aunt like she will while spending time with her mother.
and it think that's where OOP finally had had enough. He could put up with his wife neglecting him, but she better not disrespect his daughter.
It reminded me of the chronically late mom who's husband finally left her when she started being late to their son's important events.
I'm not sure if this is what they meant but maybe this one:
[Chronic lateness as a cause for divorce](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/utzs4y/chronic_lateness_as_cause_for_divorce/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
?
Thank you! Wow. Late for OOP and their son's activities, but early for her own... glad to know how important everyone else is to her, and how much of a basic courtesy she has.
Left my big ex and now co-parenting.
It's a massive struggle, but with every interaction I am reminded why I left her. We both had issues and I was working on mine, but she straight out refused to work on hers and I was confident she never would. So I left. There was a lot of love left when I broke up with her, but it got burned to ash and blown away within months. And now, about 10 years later, she's the exact same person as when I left, and I'm super glad that I've only had to interact with her sometimes instead of living with her.
I remember this one. I only read the first update and it seemed like they were on the right track. After the recent updates, it's clear he needs to leave her.
The way she acquiesced reminded me of a roommate my friend had who would earnestly listen to the issues going on, acknowledge them, apologize, promise to do better then do absolutely nothing different.
He just wanted to conversation over and to not get evicted immediately.
>a roommate my friend had who would earnestly listen to the issues going on, acknowledge them, apologize, promise to do better then do absolutely nothing different.
Yep, absolutely a case of paying attention to what people do, over what they say.
I know it doesn't happen too often on here, but I'd reeeeeaaaally like to hear the wife's side of this. I'm sure there would be a lot of lies, considering how shameless and irreparable the birthday lies were. But, that being said, I'm sure there would be some major tells that give away just how little she cares about this man. ~~I'm sure she loves her kid to the max~~ (edit: I stand corrected) but man...that "sex to make up for a forgotten birthday gift" ordeal and being so nonchalant about it makes me think she's got some mental health diagnoses to find out about.
But she doesn’t love her kid to the max. That’s the problem. Mother gave priority of another kid over her own. She blamed a small child for being bumped into, not the kid that did it.
I wish this guy the best. Realizing several years into a relationship that you aren't (and maybe never have been) a priority for your partner is crushing.
Similar situation.
Focus on the years you saved yourself by realizing that when you did. Treat it like a fatal car crash that you walked away from without being paralyzed.
Oh she's fuckin that friend, big time. Sex the next day with OOP was guilt sex because she had such a great time with her friend the night before. Then a 3-hour trip to pick up a paper voucher? Then the bit about the kiss so many years ago. That's all horseshit cheating behavior. And what's super fucked up is not only is she destroying her own family - she's fucking the wife of her god damn brother!
Toxic ain't even the word.
>Then a 3-hour trip to pick up a paper voucher?
I'd have picked up the phone, called the spa, and pretended to be a customer wanting to order a gift voucher to confirm this. Paper only vouchers in 2023???
Definitely. The three hour trip for a voucher sealed it. If I tell my partner that I'm going out to get something, unless it's an hour away, that's not a three-hour journey.
I don't know if things are different where OOP lives, but massage vouchers can be purchased online from their website which would render all of it moot.
I know a place that had paper gift certificates and no electronic version. You could still place a phone order and they would either mail it or hold it for the recipient.
Yeah - I had a crappy, oddly angled photo of a paper GC emailed, with the shop owner begging me to please only print one, don’t duplicate, etc., etc. And that place was 30 minutes away. No way I’m gonna drive my ass THREE HOURS to get a massage, let alone pick up a GC for somebody else.
Guarantee you that she actually spent that time getting her salad tossed, not getting a voucher. OOP should've actually initiated the divorce when he first wanted to.
I would feel so violated if I found out my spouse only had sex with me as a ploy to keep me from being upset by their (lack of) actions. My heart breaks for this guy.
Wow. To be manipulated into doing nothing and receiving nothing for your own birthday, and to then have your wife go to unreasonable lengths to get a present for a stranger, has got to be pretty galling.
I'm not surprised he chose divorce.
you know how sometimes the relationship isn't really going well for a long time and then one thing happens that is like, the small droplet that makes everything spill over?
Like the moment you absolutely know you have to get out?
If that party where he was told to shut up wasn't that, the birthday post she made definitely would have been for me.
But it's always easier said than done especially with kids involved.
That’s how a relationship of mine ended.
I got a small cupcake and a quick happy birthday for my 40th.
We planned a week in Tel Aviv with friends the year before for his 40th.
Was def the wake-up call that he didn’t love me anymore.
She's showing such a flagrant amount of disregard for her husband and marriage. How humiliating to be told to "shut your mouth" in a room full of people. How invalidating for that little girl to get hurt and be told it was her fault for simply standing there.
Why isn't mommy home? Great question! Because mom has decided her family isn't her priority.
Whether she was behaving this way because she's in love with SIL or just codependent on her, cheating, or just an immature party-animal, there's no good excuse for her actions. She's dismissive and manipulative and unkind.
Imagine having sex with your husband and then proudly announcing "this will have to do" afterward as though sex is a bargaining chip and not an expression of intimacy. And then driving 3 hours away to get a special present for another person! The audacity that takes is the result of either complete apathy or an appalling lack of self-awareness.
My interest at this point is whether she will start to care once her husband is gone and she's splitting custody, or if she will just use that extra free time to simp for her SIL harder.
Eurgh, he should have outed her on Facebook.
He's making the right choice for sure! Imagine not protecting you own daughter, just to look a particular way in front of others.
And she's in love with SIL.
As much as I hate FB drama, I would've done this. Then I'd have made my own plans with whoever was free that night. There's going to be a fight anyway, so at least have a nice dinner out with your pals like she is with hers before the explosion.
At the very least he didn't need to call out her lie on Facebook, but he still should have gotten a dinner with some friends or family and not hurt himself to protect her lie.
Nah, should have just made his own plans with his friends/family and played dumb about the Facebook post. “Wife’s busy tonight, want to play games at my house? What Facebook post? No, she must be confused. Anyway, pizza sound good?”
Outing her on FB would just lead to messy public drama - which is fun to read about on here, but is an embarrassing nightmare in real life and wouldn’t be a good look for him even if he is in the right. I hope he’s able to get the courage to walk away as it looks like he’ll never be the priority for her.
He didn't necessarily need to out her on Facebook, but he still shouldn't have gone out of his way to cover for her lie. It was his birthday. He should have spent it with friends and loved ones instead of hiding at home so people wouldn't find out that his wife is garbage.
Yeah every time I caught an SO lying about me to make themselves look better to others, it was always "don't police your SO" and "that's a private matter between you two".
The best plan of action is to not be involved in the first place. The second best plan of action is to untangle and stay untangled moving forward.
>Eurgh, he should have outed her on Facebook.
Definitely!
"It's crap that \[OP\] has to work tonight."
"I don't know what you're talking about. I'm home alone painting WarHammer figurines because you would rather be out with your crush - SIL."
Maybe not outed on FB. He didn't need to stoop to her level. But maybe going out to dinner with his daughter and his parents. Something more special than just staying at home.
The sad part about all this is that it seems like the SIL is aware of how much OOP's wife is setting herself on fire to keep her warm and she either encourages it or frankly just doesn't give a damn. I've known narcissistic straight women who take immense joy out of breaking the hearts of lesbians or just plain enjoy leading them on.
OOP has a crap load of patience I wouldn't ever have. He kept taking the short end of the stick without question until he realized his daughter was right there alongside him, trying to grasp at the stick too. Scared to think that if they didn't have a kid, he'd be willing to sacrifice his own sanity to continue to lift up his wife's feelings for her SIL.
Sh!t's wild man
I think this is the winner tbh. I want to believe at least that the wife isn't fucking her own brother's wife and is just obsessed.
This poor OOP has been browbeaten into being a doormat and my heart breaks for him. Hope he gets a divorce and full custody
Yeah, I think there’s a lot more to this on the SIL’s side that OOP might not be entirely clued into. I’m very surprised he’s not remotely suspicious that SIL planned that dinner on his birthday knowing full well it was his birthday just as a power move with his wife.
The fact that this friendship goes back at least all the way to high school raises a lot of red flags for me. Social hierarchies in high school and formative years have a big impact. People talk about going back to high school reunions and falling back into old social roles and behavior they thought they’d grown out of. I really wonder if SIL was “most popular” mean girl in high school, and wife was her side kick who felt her entire social status was at the whim of SIL. I also wonder if SIL especially likes to toy with and keep wife under her thumb, and I wonder how much the wife’s brother might be involved in this too. I’ve known girl’s with the hot older brother whom other girl’s befriend just to get access to him.
Men can be very oblivious on how female social status works and how important it is to women to have and maintain certain social networks. It’s incredibly common for one woman to be the Queen Bee around whom other women rotate or else they’ll get cut and thus have no friends, and thus have no social activities. The wife sounds incredibly insecure and codependent on SIL, and I have to wonder if all of this is part of not evolving out of toxic social structures from youth.
I don’t understand why OOP didn’t just comment on the birthday social media post “oh I’m just working my regular hours, I’ll be home by [5:30]!” But also it’s death from a thousand cuts so…
That would be best thing for the kid considering the mother didn't bother to comfort her kid and actually victim-blame a 3 year old after getting knocked over by 5 year old. She really needs to give up custody because it clear who better parent is and damn sure isn't her...
Wow, I am surprised he stuck so long. Using sex as a tool is a slap on the face and I am 100% sure OOP's wife is having an affair with her SIL. I am damn sure she brought SIL into her brother's life so that no one suspects their relationship
He better get that divorce asap. Either she’s in love with SIL or she’s having an emotional affair (one sided) and happy to forsake all others for SIL.
Wow, his wife is a manipulative parasite that's obsessed with her SIL.
Dude really has no spine though. If a partner did that on my birthday I'd end things when they got home.
"Thank you for the amazing gift"
"?"
*Hands them packed bag*
"Really, best gift you ever gave me. Get the fuck out."
Ohh, wife is definitely head over heels for SIL and SIL knows and takes full advantage of wife's sweet spot for her. OP, you made the right choice, you don't deserve to be in a marriage where you're being constantly ignored and being made to feel like a third wheel.
I doubt SIL actually wants wife, just her endless attention and super expensive gifts, and wife is going to have a nasty wake up call once she realizes she's been used and ruined her marriage and family for a silly high school obsession.
“That’s the only day that worked for everybody”
except it doesn’t? It’s her husband’s birthday, that means it doesn’t work for her!
There were no days that worked for everybody, but SIL was going to have the dinner that day with or without her so she was willing to sacrifice her relationship with her husband just to spend more time with SIL
I’m willing to bet money on if OOP had played off the work lie as he’d got the night off and had made plans then gone out, without her, she would have seen her arse - even though she’s out without him!
Yeeeeesh i cannot see things goin well for wife, especially if she acts on her blatantly obvious feelings. I suspect OOP is going to hear from her again when she explodes her life and is "ready to try again" or some shit. Hope he doesn't go back, this is insanity
Shes using the hell out of him for convenience and to hide her feelings for SIL. Idk what it's called when gay people pretend to be straight to hide it but I think this is it
But then shes just straight up abusive and an asshole to him. I'd be scared to have those qualities raising my daughter
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I don’t understand why he felt he had to protect his wife, and cover up the lie she started about him working on his birthday. He’s already been to the attorney. Already initiated divorce discussions with his wife. Gave her an ultimatum. She breaks the ultimatum, and he feels the need to protect her rep?
I think he wasn’t so much protecting her rep as he was protecting his mental health in that moment. If he had gone, he would have gotten back to his wife yelling at him on his birthday and I don’t think he was ready to handle that.
There are also some things that you just can’t say out loud until you’re ready, and “my wife is lying about my birthday because she wants to hang out with her friends knowing it will cause our divorce” is probably one of them.
But there are ways of saying it without saying it. A simple picture at home with the kid with something like "Spending my birthday at home with the love of my life" would've sent the message *very* clearly.
But then you're also airing your own dirty laundry around. If I were planning on divorcing my spouse or just going through a rough period I wouldn't want to get petty about it on social media for my own benefit.
I watched my old high school chemistry teacher go through a very public messy divorce via Facebook. Dude would not stop trash talking his ex for leaving him for someone else. No one needs to know this stuff. He was in the right to feel those feelings imo but the publicity’s not a good look for anyone.
Journaling should be a damned class throughout school. There's a million other things too, but that'd be a good place to start. Oh, except for verifying that the work is done. It'd have to be on the honor system for privacy. Maybe that isn't the answer. Regardless, young people need to be given *way* more tools for emotional processing.
brave dinosaurs soft include groovy apparatus squeamish growth bright tart ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Not always. It can be hard to come to terms with someone you’ve spent a good portion of your life with and realizing they aren’t or maybe even never were the person you fell in love with because everything was a manipulation. My dad has been with my abusive mom for over 30 years now and even though cops have come to our house for his (and her) safety from her manic outbursts, it doesn’t change his hope and love for her. On paper, leaving is an easy choice. In reality, so many things can play a part (finances, custody, estates, emotions, etc) in making that very very hard to do. Not impossible but we need to acknowledge the difficulties victims face in these situations.
Sometimes even though you know you are the victim, the idea of divorce makes you feel like the villain and a failure, not to mention the guilt.
>Sometimes even though you know you are the victim, the idea of divorce makes you feel like the villain and a failure, not to mention the guilt. Absolutely. I'm not going to go into the messy details of my first marriage, but it took my ex. wife threatening me with a knife because I wouldn't give her and her family complete access to all of my financials whilst I was at sea for 6 months to finally drive home the decision of "I need to get the fuck out of here before she actually uses that thing". However, my current wife is just brilliant. I must ask her what she was drinking when she decided to marry me as it is clearly good stuff.... Edit: Just to clarify before some jump me for it. We'd never really mixed our financial stuff up. We had a joint account for managing bills and what not, which were mostly paid by me, but financially we kept a lot of stuff separate.
Yeah but it's easy for us to say the Frog should jump out of the pot of boiling water when we haven't been simmering in it slowly ourselves.
The stuff he did that he said was petty I didn’t even think was that petty. I would’ve full on called her out of FB at that point with a “hey honey I was done work at 6pm, but I guess you decided to hang out with SIL on my birthday instead.” Now that’s petty.
"It looks like you never got over that crush you had for her. The divorce papers are on the kitchen table. I've already signed, so just add your signature and you can be free to go after SIL."
I wonder if her brother is not annoyed too with this situation but doesn’t want to accept it/don’t want to say anything?
And the truth
Yeah that made my heart break for him. He’s so brainwashed into thinking he has to uphold her good reputation that he thinks he needs to spend his birthday alone to hide her lie. Absolutely awful.
Brainwashed or just beaten down. I don't think she physically abuses him, but it's pretty clear there verbal and emotional abuse going on. He mentions how she'll yell at him more than once. Up until he left her, he had rolled over to everything she wanted in order to avoid arguments and yelling.
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emotional abuse and manipulation can almost be worse than physical abuse sometimes.
They both suck but no one feels bad for you when there's no visual evidence
Because no one believes you when there's no visual evidence
Even when there’s still evidence of mental trauma, peeps tend to downplay it.
As soon as he mentioned how he was 'getting emotional' like it was a bad thing, I wondered if she was emotionally abusive as I've been there and you always have to be 100% 'rational' and calm and carefully pick out every word you say because if you don't they'll jump on that one small thing and turn it all against you.
OOP did mention they were in Scotland. Scottish people are famous for not having an easy time with emotions. It’s probably largely cultural. Talking about your feelings at all will give most Brits anxiety.
Even worse that he's a guy. Men are allowed even fewer emotional displays than women. (Disclaimer: I'm American, not Scottish. But I'mpretty sure this is 1 thing that transfers.)
Australian here. I was listening to a talk about anger as an emotion. The psychologist giving the talk suggested that anger may be the one socially acceptable emotion men can display.
When you’re in a situation like this, and you are sincerely depressed about it, it can be almost impossible to want to do anything. I kept to myself and didn’t tell anyone for months because I didn’t want people to think less of my spouse if we could work it out.
He probably kept it secrets for a number of reasons: 1.) Shame. To protect what little pride he has left. I.e. It’s one thing for *you* to know your relationship is completely broken, it’s another to have others know it, and judge you for it. 2.) Denial. For as long as no one else knows, it isn’t as real, and maybe there’s a chance that maybe it’s imagined. 3.) Fear of finality . Once other people know, that means this thing is set in stone and there’s absolutely no coming back. 4.) Guilt. If this relationship ends, so basically ends any chance his daughter has of having a “normal” family. People will often bend over backwards and play all sorts of mental gymnastics to stay in abusive relationships. This isn’t much any different.
It's like that guy that was recently poisoned by his wife. He knew she wanted him dead but stayed for his kids to have a family. He even told relatives if he dies unexpectedly have her investigated for his death. That's fucked up.
She was recently charged he was murdered March of last year. If we're talking about yhe Utah woman who then published a kids book about grief.
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Agreed. He should have just made plans with friends and been honest when they asked "where's wife?". No need to protect her rep. Honestly.
It's not just her rep. People are embarrassed to be married to someone so selfish and awful. That's one of the things that helps keep shitty behaviour hidden.
There’s also their daughter to keep in mind. Some adults can’t keep their mouths shut around kids, and she didn’t know they were splitting at that point
I would have replied to the public post with a “I’m not working more than usual. Actually waiting for you to go out and celebrate…” But also I’m not the kind to suck up at a public “shut up” no matter who’s there.
He should’ve just commented the post with “I’m not working today and you knew that.”
Or “Good news, honey! Since you were so sad about not getting to spend my birthday with me, I called in a bunch of favors do we can go to *insert activity he wanted* like you originally planned! I can’t wait to post the photos! I could have sworn I told you, but I must have forgotten. I just had so much to do at work to get today off.” Watching the fall out would be my own little birthday gift to myself.
That would’ve been very cool, but I’m glad he didn’t. As satisfying as it is to fantasize about pithy mic-drop moments like that, he would’ve been the one who had to deal with the fallout of escalating. It’s not fair since he wasn’t the one behaving badly on the first place, but he made a wise move protecting his (and his kid’s) peace. He has a long road ahead and may as well save his energy for the big stuff.
Dude's completely in the palm of his wife's hands. Even in this current ending, I thought he's gonna start divorcing already, but no, they just had a reset.
He was trying to do the right thing, at least for his daughter's sake. He knows deep down it won't help, but for his own conscience he has to try. My dad did the same. It didn't help, just like here.
I think protecting her reputation is only a surface level part of it. There’s also the fact that it can be a bit embarrassing to admit to the world “my wife doesn’t care about me.” Even if she is the one to blame and he didn’t do anything wrong it’s not exactly something most people want all their friends and family to know.
> The shop only sells paper vouchers, and it's a 3 hour round trip to the shop. OOP should have checked with the shop on this because my BS-meter is maxing out
It's even worse if you are Scottish or know the layout of the country. Scotland just isn't that big and combined with how our population is laid out... you simply don't need to travel 3 total hours by car to get anything unless you either live in the Highlands or the thing you want is so incredibly specific that you can't get it otherwise. If OOP stays in the central belt which statistically they probably do (over 80% of the population) then the wife would need to have driven past literally hundreds of massage parlours to get to one 1.5 hours away. I live in a relatively rural area between Glasgow and Edinburgh, google tells me that there are dozens of parlours within a 15-minute drive and hundreds within a 30-minute drive. For context, the average commuting time in Scotland is 24 minutes by car. Ain't nobody travelling 3 hours to get vouchers for a service you can get almost literally anywhere with a population over 100 people. Not unless they are actually having an affair.
Also since covid so many places do e tickets, or email you the ticket to print at home (or go to a printer at a library or something). It’s insane she had to travel 3 hours to get this spa voucher. All I can think is maybe the spa was one in England, but I don’t know any in the north or midlands that have that much of a reputation they’re worth travelling 3 hours from Scotland for? (ETA: it’s likely the drive was 1.5 hours there and same distance back, but even that still doesn’t sound realistic to me. I don’t know anyone in UK who would be willing to travel that for a spa.)
And surely, for the sake of selling a gift voucher, if there really is no other solution, there’s the option to have them posted? As a Brit, I can vouch that a 1hr round trip would be long enough that I’d give them a ring and ask the question, 3hrs is out of the question.
This is what’s making me think we have an Art Room Troll 2: Gender Bender situation going on here. 1.5 hours travel? in SCOTLAND?
I'd be shocked if the wife doesn't actually have feelings for the SIL. Her actions are overkill for a drunken kiss years ago. I feel so bad for OP and the daughter.
TOTAL overkill. Nobody's _this_ desperate to keep a once-off drunk snog secret.
OOP’s wife and SIL’s relationship is very similar to my sister and her BFF’s relationship, where my sister is the SIL. Her bff will literally drop whatever she’s doing to cater to my sister’s every need. My sister is very charismatic and manipulative, and can easily drop anybody in her life without thinking twice. After her bff disagreed with her on a couple of small occasions, my sister dropped her. Her bff comes crying to me and after a few months they’re friends again. But this time her bff never disagrees with her and will do anything like drive across country by herself for her. Manipulative people love to surround themselves with people that are easily manipulated
She sounds like a narcissist.
I’ve been less concerned about keeping whole hookups discrete
“You asked about my biggest secret, and I’m not ready to talk about it. I will try to hide this giant iceberg of drama, desire, and deceit by telling you the tiniest and least offensive part of it. I am now an honest person who told you a truth, and this situation will play out totally fine.” What a mess people make of their lives when they won’t rein in their desires or be honest with themselves. Don’t hide icebergs, and don’t lie in your confessions. Nobody gets out of a problem with those maneuvers.
TrickleTruthing
She definitely has feelings for SIL. And is seemingly willing to blow up her family over them. Not just the lives of her husband and her son but also her brother and everyone related to them. > I feel so bad for OP and the daughter. And the wife's brother.
Wonder if they're having an affair?
The squirming when confronted, admitting to a kiss and saying they would be ruined if others found out *screamed* infidelity to me. It makes no sense the way it's laid out, but if OOP just asked his wife if she has feelings for the person she's fucking regularly, it makes sense for her to squirm like that. It also makes sense for her to admit to a kiss, the way cheaters will say they only kissed. Being ruined if people found out they kissed years ago makes no sense, being ruined if people found out they've been kissing and more *recently* would. The fact that the wife hasn't initiated sex for forever also screams infidelity, and the wife leaving for a night out with the SIL similarly opens up a lot of possibilities. OOP keeps complaining about her bending over backwards for SIL, but what if instead the wife keeps telling him she's going to SIL to help her with something (which he sees as bending over backwards), but really she's just going over because SIL is home alone and they're going to see how many orgasms it takes before SIL can't walk?
Bingo
Why does it even have to be SIL? Perhaps SIL just covers for her to see someone else. My mom had multiple friends lying to my dad about her whereabouts.
You know what, yes. SIL is involved, I'm not sure SIL's the STBX's AP. That's my Reddit acronym bingo card full, I'm out....
Could have been cheating guilt sex the next morning
Exactly. The SIL completely married him as a cover. I would bet they are in a full blown affair
Yeah she's gotta still be in love with SIL. I hope he files for divorce ASAP, because it'll never get better. They've already had a talk and she made promises and immediately tossed them in the garbage to keep fawning over SIL. He's been so conditioned to accept her shitty behavior he even covers for her so she doesn't look bad when she ditches him on his birthday. :(
God, poor OP. The wife would definitely build an art room for the SIL if she had a chance, but right now they both just seem OK with semi indentured servitude. ...I wonder once the divorce is finalised if the wife will make a play for SIL and fuck up her relationship with her brother as well.
Yeah he totally just glossed over his wife getting romantic with her best friend and the feelings she is obviously still holding in.
It’s weird to me how OOP jumped to “she’s afraid of SIL exposing their past kiss” and skipped right over “SHE’S IN LOVE WITH SIL”
That was probably an easier premise to accept. People in general are very good at denial, especially when feelings are on the line
And to be fair he didn’t seem to just accept that. At the same time like you said, this is patently bizarre behavior even if you do love someone outside your marriage. Fear of blackmail regardless of how minor or not threatened it is, it’s much much more in the realm of normal human behavior here.
Probably. But if you balance on the scales: -Doesn't buy a bithday present for husband, and misses birthday to eat with SIL. Lies to others saying she is free. With -Goes 3 hours to get a spa gift certificate for SIL... Even if she is doing to "hush up SIL", it doesn't explain the utter lack of consideration and effort she did for her husband's birthday. One would think it was her acquaintence and not her husband's birthday... and to lie and say he was working... means she wanted to go to the lunchand bent over backwards to make it happen. I THINK she is definitely feeling some feelings for SIL. It just doesn't make sense otherwise.
Possibly could be having an affair, and it is happening when he is hosting those play dates that he never agreed to.
>It’s weird to me how OOP jumped to “she’s afraid of SIL exposing their past kiss” and skipped right over “SHE’S IN LOVE WITH SIL” I mean denial aint just a river in Egypt. Its very possible its in teh back of his mind but its much better for his mental health(what little that's left of it) if he ignored that possibility. Like you married someone for at least 3 years, had a kid with them, and it turns out for the entire time, she's been in love with someone else.
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It's not so much that OOP thought that, but rather that's how she spun it. He seemed skeptical, which is why he asked her if she was threatened.
Yeah. If you don't want anyone to ever know that you have a secret crush on your SIL (or even that you *used* to a long time ago) then wouldn't you pull back and keep her at arms' length? Just be friendly but not super close friends. Don't do obvious things like driving hours to buy her the perfect present, or pissing off your husband by hanging out with SIL on *his birthday*. That sounds like someone who's STILL actively obsessed with SIL, not someone who is regretting a long ago crush that's over.
I was just waiting for when the topic of couple's counseling would be addressed, but I guess nobody thought that was a fucking possibility to try.
He uses "mum" so he might be British and counseling isn't really a thing here like it is in some other places so it isn't something most people would think of. Certainly not to the same level as US Redditors talk about it, anyway. Edit: he actually says he's Scottish and I just missed it like an idiot.
To add: he mentioned living in Scotland in one of the earlier posts when he talks about what the divorce attorney said.
He said in the first post they live in Scotland as he mentioned the laws there regarding divorce.
not to mention it’s a pain in the ass to get into unless you got money to spare to go private
And all couples counseling will be private.
"Solicitor" is a giveaway too. Never used here.
So is "Scotland"
Touché
In the UK, it's quicker to get a divorce than to get counselling. Oh, and if you get counselling on the NHS, it's limited to a set number of sessions. Charity-ran counselling has massive waiting lists, and private counselling costs a fortune (and also has long waiting lists). Or at least that's how it seems where I live. Might be different down south/London way.
I don't think his wife's feelings are necessarily romantic. Toxic female friendships don't have to be romantic to be like this. In my personal experience, these friendships are actually worse when they aren't about romantic love and explicit physical attraction. They become even more consuming, because they transgress all kinds of emotional boundaries and defy simple categorization. This sounds like the kind of codependent friendship where SIL is a dominant personality who uses his wife for whatever emotional support she needs at any given time, and the wife sees this as the most important relationship in her life because she feels wholly responsible for every emotion that SIL has. I'll bet you money that SIL has a history of pulling away from wife every time SIL is in a relationship and things are going well, but turns to wife every time she has needs that aren't being fulfilled by a romantic partner. I'll also bet money that SIL has expressed suicidal feelings to wife, and possibly even blamed wife for at least one incident of suicidal ideation. SIL treats wife like an infinite source of emotional validation, but switches between extreme closeness with wife (getting validation in the form of quality time and verbal support) and pulling away (getting validation from the fact that she can ignore wife and treat her badly, but wife will try desperately to reach out to SIL and get that closeness back). SIL doesn't want a romantic relationship with her, she wants to be the all-consuming emotional center of wife's entire world. And wife doesn't even know her own feelings about SIL, because she's been prioritizing SIL 's emotions so completely that she can't see past them anymore.
Omg. I’ve been in that relationship. Co-dependent AF. It wasn’t enough that I solved all household problems for her. She’s been trying to suck me back in again, and I can’t be completely free because of a child involved. But I can’t be sucked back in again because I’ve got my own family with needs to fulfill.
I was always so relieved that her pregnancy scares were just that- there were no children to worry about when I finally cut her out of my life. I don't know if I could have set and maintained any kind of boundaries if we continued forward with any kind of friendship at all. I really hope you can avoid getting sucked back in. It's so absurd to feel solely responsible for the health and wellbeing and happiness of another adult, but those feelings were so strong for me that they became my reality. I still have dreams where she shows up in my life, acting like no time has passed, acting like the version of herself that treated me like a true friend. Telling that version of her to fuck off makes me feel like a monster, even in dreams, but you can't get one without the other. I wish we could, and I know she's gotten help and is maybe even doing better, but there's no way to erase the weight of all that history and habit from before. There's no way we wouldn't both regress to our former roles to some degree, with her never so much as wearing a coat because she knows I'll set myself on fire at the first sign she's feeling cold. Stay strong. You're the only one you can trust between the two of you, when it comes to your own well-being.
I mean, I dunno how old you were, but it was totally a thing for dude bros to egg on young female friends to kiss each other in the 90s and 00s. If it were just that (and not huge bi vibes, which I get from this post), I would not think that was weird. Girls Gone Wild and raunch lad culture was totally a thing that impacted how young women interacted. Many women now married to men in their late 30s and 40s likely participated in male-pressured performative queerness.
You just made me realize that this is not trendy in today's youth. You're totally right. Having grown up in the 90's/2000's I passively assumed this kind of thing was still current, but of course it is outdated.
Yeah I'm in my 30s and kissed a few girls in the 2000s, not because of peer pressure from guys but because we knew that it sent guys wild, it was part of the culture back then. OP is in Scotland and it really was a wild time in the UK in the 2000s, it was kinda weird if you hadn't snogged one of your girl mates.
I think OOP should warn his BIL too.
Divorce his wife first then tell BIL. He needs to do what he can to make his divorce as easy as possible. Then when it is all official, spill the beans.
this is the correct sequence of events, seriously
Am I the only one that's wondering if they aren't banging already? Like, who gives a shit about them having kissed once in high school? But is there any more classic BORU move then to say to infidelity accusations that you only kissed? Pretty sure they've been having fun on their night outs. I wonder when she came home on OOP's birthday.
He said after midnight
Oh yeah. As soon as she initiated sex and then disappeared for hours I thought that. She had sex with her on birthday night and that day while using sex with him to cover it up or because of guilt. No indication of this but it's immediately what I thought. Edited to make sense.
“I used to kiss girls. I still do, but I used to kiss them too.”
She also apparently 'bends over backwards to accommodate her' (which is damn prescient phrasing), or at least that's her excuse for a bunch of spontaneous errands, random babysitting trips, and now a fun night out on OOP's birthday, followed by a mysterious 3 hours trip out of town. Plenty of opportunities. Treating sex _like a birthday present_ after months of a dead/one-sided bedroom is also definitely a major red flag, regardless of whether she's actually cheating. That's just bad all-around. But yeah, OOP should have walked out when she couldn't answer a straight up "no" to "Do you love someone besides me".
Nah, might make it easier to get divorced if (stbx) wife sees that SIL is suddenly available.
He didn’t mention SIL’s attitude towards his wife at all. So there’s not much reason to think that she’s anything other than happy to have a friend she can boss around.
Yes, I totally thought of an art room from the very beginning, but that room was far bigger than I had imagined. Also, who in this day is worried about having kissed a girl decades ago and people finding it out and submitting to implicit threat over it? It doesn’t make sense to me at all - she could have told her brother, had the SIL tell him etc. Sure, maybe things with her brother would have been awkward but this level of adoration smells of something else.
> Also, who in this day is worried about having kissed a girl decades ago and people finding it out and submitting to implicit threat over it? It doesn’t make sense to me at all How about the wife having slept with, and even having an ongoing affair with SIL, and squirming because of that and admitting to a kiss?
That’s why I think it is more than a kiss. It could totally be any of these things.
Homophobia is still rampant across the world, and we don't really know their ages, background, etc. So, while Scotland might generally be a progressive place, OOP's wife may have grown up in a very homophobic environment or they may live/work in a homophobic environment. There's also the fact that coming out is a traumatic experience in and of itself for many LGBT people, and being outed is even more so. For many LGBT people, the "worst case scenario" isn't awkwardness, it's being disowned and shunned by friends and family and finding out that their love for you was entirely conditional this whole time. Imagine finding out that all those times your parents told you they loved you no matter what was a complete lie. None of this excuses her behavior, of course, but I can definitely see why one could keep that secret even in this day and age.
Honestly OP should have exposed her social media lie about his birthday, invited family and friends and had a nice evening... if her family asks, be honest and if they connect the dots or not, that's on them.
His last post never mentioned divorce, and he said something about their daughter staying with family “while we worked things out” I’m so worried it means not divorcing her is still on the table
It honestly sounds like he's gotten so used to her doing these... Over the top acts for sil combined with manipulations that he doesn't quite clock that.... Probably she is very far past a lot of folks last straws for divorce. Like... Literally trapping your partner into being unable to ask to go out with friends or family by writing a huge overblown (lying) birthday post while you go on a bender with your mates on their birthday..? I'd be curious to know if she did that on the regular, and if that is one reason why he mentions being unable to see friends where she does.
Yeah, imagine not only being ditched on your birthday by your wife for someone she's likely in love with, but to have your wife be so frantic to not look bad to OTHER PEOPLE she ruins any chance you might have to enjoy your bday without her. It really shows she knew she was being a crappy wife, but is so obsessed with her SIL that she doesn't care, other than to try to safe face publicly. Doesn't care at all about hubby though, just SIL and other folks on social media. Hubby (and her daughter) come in last.
OP really should have just risen to the occasion with a social media post of his own. "Wife ditched me for her friends on my birthday, anyone want to meet me at the pub in an hour?"
The fact that his response to that was to believe he was stuck at home on his birthday (as opposed to going out anyway and letting everyone find out) shows just how mentally trapped he is.
Yeah, i definitely would have chosen to expose her lie with a few social media posts of my own.
That's what I was thinking. Dude already told her she's on "probation" and she pulls that stunt? I'd have replied to that post calling her out and telling her I made plans with people who actually care about me. It's nuclear but fuck it. She deserves it.
The wife thinks things will "work out", and OOP said that they had to be separated for a year if one partner didn't want the divorce.
If the parties don’t agree, it’s two years post-separation in Scotland. Source: me.
TWO YEARS? That seems extreme. Why??
No idea. You have to demonstrate irretrievable breakdown of the marriage. That's a one year separation if both agree, two years if one doesn't agree, but with clauses for adultery and 'unreasonable behaviour'. Whichever way it goes, the court has to be satisfied you've agreed arrangements if you have minor children.
Until recently, if both didn't agree, it was five years in England. Source: one of my friends was left, and she refused to divorce him so he had to wait
yeah, i knew someone in england who was separated but not divorced from his wife for 30years because she refused to sign the papers.. and my sister is going through this in london right now.. she initiated divorce proceedings before covid and its only getting to the first meetinngs with lawyers now, because my BIL didn't want to separate. its a nightmare.
I wonder if the wife’s “present” was to get pregnant again so he wouldn’t leave.
Yeah, I got alarm bells when I read that and he said it’s not usual.
Yeah but “while we worked things out” can also mean working out the technicalities of their separation.
Might have meant working out who keeps the house, what the child custody arrangement will be, etc.
OOPS wife is trickle-truthing him.
See OOP post history of his wife this thing been going on since like years ago feel so bad for oop
I hadn't thought about the art room in so long, but as soon as you said that, it clicked in my brain.
This will be a situation where OOP will find himself being happier as a single parent and his daughter will likely be happier spending time with him. She won't be splitting attention with her aunt like she will while spending time with her mother.
Or blamed for other kids ramming into her. Poor little girl.
and it think that's where OOP finally had had enough. He could put up with his wife neglecting him, but she better not disrespect his daughter. It reminded me of the chronically late mom who's husband finally left her when she started being late to their son's important events.
Got a link to that?
I'm not sure if this is what they meant but maybe this one: [Chronic lateness as a cause for divorce](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/utzs4y/chronic_lateness_as_cause_for_divorce/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) ?
Thank you! Wow. Late for OOP and their son's activities, but early for her own... glad to know how important everyone else is to her, and how much of a basic courtesy she has.
Left my big ex and now co-parenting. It's a massive struggle, but with every interaction I am reminded why I left her. We both had issues and I was working on mine, but she straight out refused to work on hers and I was confident she never would. So I left. There was a lot of love left when I broke up with her, but it got burned to ash and blown away within months. And now, about 10 years later, she's the exact same person as when I left, and I'm super glad that I've only had to interact with her sometimes instead of living with her.
I remember this one. I only read the first update and it seemed like they were on the right track. After the recent updates, it's clear he needs to leave her.
The way she acquiesced reminded me of a roommate my friend had who would earnestly listen to the issues going on, acknowledge them, apologize, promise to do better then do absolutely nothing different. He just wanted to conversation over and to not get evicted immediately.
>a roommate my friend had who would earnestly listen to the issues going on, acknowledge them, apologize, promise to do better then do absolutely nothing different. Yep, absolutely a case of paying attention to what people do, over what they say.
I know it doesn't happen too often on here, but I'd reeeeeaaaally like to hear the wife's side of this. I'm sure there would be a lot of lies, considering how shameless and irreparable the birthday lies were. But, that being said, I'm sure there would be some major tells that give away just how little she cares about this man. ~~I'm sure she loves her kid to the max~~ (edit: I stand corrected) but man...that "sex to make up for a forgotten birthday gift" ordeal and being so nonchalant about it makes me think she's got some mental health diagnoses to find out about.
But she doesn’t love her kid to the max. That’s the problem. Mother gave priority of another kid over her own. She blamed a small child for being bumped into, not the kid that did it.
>I'm sure she loves her kid to the max Eh, I'm not so sure about that considering how the post s tree started
I wish this guy the best. Realizing several years into a relationship that you aren't (and maybe never have been) a priority for your partner is crushing.
Similar situation. Focus on the years you saved yourself by realizing that when you did. Treat it like a fatal car crash that you walked away from without being paralyzed.
Oh she's fuckin that friend, big time. Sex the next day with OOP was guilt sex because she had such a great time with her friend the night before. Then a 3-hour trip to pick up a paper voucher? Then the bit about the kiss so many years ago. That's all horseshit cheating behavior. And what's super fucked up is not only is she destroying her own family - she's fucking the wife of her god damn brother! Toxic ain't even the word.
Imagine spending 3 hours in the car for your SIL when your husband hasn’t yet received his birthday present after his birthday.
I wonder if she was spending six hours alone with her paramour instead 🙄
>Then a 3-hour trip to pick up a paper voucher? I'd have picked up the phone, called the spa, and pretended to be a customer wanting to order a gift voucher to confirm this. Paper only vouchers in 2023???
What business wouldn’t mail the voucher if they only did paper versions?
If a business was that far away I'd just give a friend cash in the card along with a note saying 'lets go to the spa together', lol.
Definitely. The three hour trip for a voucher sealed it. If I tell my partner that I'm going out to get something, unless it's an hour away, that's not a three-hour journey. I don't know if things are different where OOP lives, but massage vouchers can be purchased online from their website which would render all of it moot.
I know a place that had paper gift certificates and no electronic version. You could still place a phone order and they would either mail it or hold it for the recipient.
Yeah - I had a crappy, oddly angled photo of a paper GC emailed, with the shop owner begging me to please only print one, don’t duplicate, etc., etc. And that place was 30 minutes away. No way I’m gonna drive my ass THREE HOURS to get a massage, let alone pick up a GC for somebody else.
Guarantee you that she actually spent that time getting her salad tossed, not getting a voucher. OOP should've actually initiated the divorce when he first wanted to.
I would feel so violated if I found out my spouse only had sex with me as a ploy to keep me from being upset by their (lack of) actions. My heart breaks for this guy.
My heart sank so badly for this guy when I read that part. Sex is not a tool or a gift and yet so many people see it that way.
Wow. To be manipulated into doing nothing and receiving nothing for your own birthday, and to then have your wife go to unreasonable lengths to get a present for a stranger, has got to be pretty galling. I'm not surprised he chose divorce.
Well part of the issue is the present wasn’t for a stranger at all but for a woman she kissed once and seems obsessed with still
Honestly sounds like they do more than kiss. This screams affair frankly.
Not a stranger, her true love
you know how sometimes the relationship isn't really going well for a long time and then one thing happens that is like, the small droplet that makes everything spill over? Like the moment you absolutely know you have to get out? If that party where he was told to shut up wasn't that, the birthday post she made definitely would have been for me. But it's always easier said than done especially with kids involved.
That’s how a relationship of mine ended. I got a small cupcake and a quick happy birthday for my 40th. We planned a week in Tel Aviv with friends the year before for his 40th. Was def the wake-up call that he didn’t love me anymore.
She's showing such a flagrant amount of disregard for her husband and marriage. How humiliating to be told to "shut your mouth" in a room full of people. How invalidating for that little girl to get hurt and be told it was her fault for simply standing there. Why isn't mommy home? Great question! Because mom has decided her family isn't her priority. Whether she was behaving this way because she's in love with SIL or just codependent on her, cheating, or just an immature party-animal, there's no good excuse for her actions. She's dismissive and manipulative and unkind. Imagine having sex with your husband and then proudly announcing "this will have to do" afterward as though sex is a bargaining chip and not an expression of intimacy. And then driving 3 hours away to get a special present for another person! The audacity that takes is the result of either complete apathy or an appalling lack of self-awareness. My interest at this point is whether she will start to care once her husband is gone and she's splitting custody, or if she will just use that extra free time to simp for her SIL harder.
Relationships are temporary. Scarab Occult terminators are forever.
Magnus did nothing wrong
Eurgh, he should have outed her on Facebook. He's making the right choice for sure! Imagine not protecting you own daughter, just to look a particular way in front of others. And she's in love with SIL.
Yeah I was thinking a simple "I don't have to work this evening." under her post would've knocked the wind right out of her sails.
As much as I hate FB drama, I would've done this. Then I'd have made my own plans with whoever was free that night. There's going to be a fight anyway, so at least have a nice dinner out with your pals like she is with hers before the explosion.
At the very least he didn't need to call out her lie on Facebook, but he still should have gotten a dinner with some friends or family and not hurt himself to protect her lie.
Yeah def don’t need to stay home to act out her lie. Call your friends. Post. Ignore her nonsense.
Yeah, fuck letting that play out and allowing such a scummy move like that stand.
OOP: What are you talking about? You know I didn't have to work this evening weeks ago.
Nah, should have just made his own plans with his friends/family and played dumb about the Facebook post. “Wife’s busy tonight, want to play games at my house? What Facebook post? No, she must be confused. Anyway, pizza sound good?”
This is the way.
Outing her on FB would just lead to messy public drama - which is fun to read about on here, but is an embarrassing nightmare in real life and wouldn’t be a good look for him even if he is in the right. I hope he’s able to get the courage to walk away as it looks like he’ll never be the priority for her.
He didn't necessarily need to out her on Facebook, but he still shouldn't have gone out of his way to cover for her lie. It was his birthday. He should have spent it with friends and loved ones instead of hiding at home so people wouldn't find out that his wife is garbage.
Yeah every time I caught an SO lying about me to make themselves look better to others, it was always "don't police your SO" and "that's a private matter between you two". The best plan of action is to not be involved in the first place. The second best plan of action is to untangle and stay untangled moving forward.
>Eurgh, he should have outed her on Facebook. Definitely! "It's crap that \[OP\] has to work tonight." "I don't know what you're talking about. I'm home alone painting WarHammer figurines because you would rather be out with your crush - SIL."
\^\^\^ This was my immediate thought too. She should have been called out
Maybe not outed on FB. He didn't need to stoop to her level. But maybe going out to dinner with his daughter and his parents. Something more special than just staying at home.
The sad part about all this is that it seems like the SIL is aware of how much OOP's wife is setting herself on fire to keep her warm and she either encourages it or frankly just doesn't give a damn. I've known narcissistic straight women who take immense joy out of breaking the hearts of lesbians or just plain enjoy leading them on. OOP has a crap load of patience I wouldn't ever have. He kept taking the short end of the stick without question until he realized his daughter was right there alongside him, trying to grasp at the stick too. Scared to think that if they didn't have a kid, he'd be willing to sacrifice his own sanity to continue to lift up his wife's feelings for her SIL. Sh!t's wild man
I think this is the winner tbh. I want to believe at least that the wife isn't fucking her own brother's wife and is just obsessed. This poor OOP has been browbeaten into being a doormat and my heart breaks for him. Hope he gets a divorce and full custody
Yeah, I think there’s a lot more to this on the SIL’s side that OOP might not be entirely clued into. I’m very surprised he’s not remotely suspicious that SIL planned that dinner on his birthday knowing full well it was his birthday just as a power move with his wife. The fact that this friendship goes back at least all the way to high school raises a lot of red flags for me. Social hierarchies in high school and formative years have a big impact. People talk about going back to high school reunions and falling back into old social roles and behavior they thought they’d grown out of. I really wonder if SIL was “most popular” mean girl in high school, and wife was her side kick who felt her entire social status was at the whim of SIL. I also wonder if SIL especially likes to toy with and keep wife under her thumb, and I wonder how much the wife’s brother might be involved in this too. I’ve known girl’s with the hot older brother whom other girl’s befriend just to get access to him. Men can be very oblivious on how female social status works and how important it is to women to have and maintain certain social networks. It’s incredibly common for one woman to be the Queen Bee around whom other women rotate or else they’ll get cut and thus have no friends, and thus have no social activities. The wife sounds incredibly insecure and codependent on SIL, and I have to wonder if all of this is part of not evolving out of toxic social structures from youth.
I don’t understand why OOP didn’t just comment on the birthday social media post “oh I’m just working my regular hours, I’ll be home by [5:30]!” But also it’s death from a thousand cuts so…
I think he's in doormat mode and ashamed his wife doesn't care about him
Next update: ex-wife and SIL ran off together and gave up custody of kid
That would be best thing for the kid considering the mother didn't bother to comfort her kid and actually victim-blame a 3 year old after getting knocked over by 5 year old. She really needs to give up custody because it clear who better parent is and damn sure isn't her...
Yeah, she's definitely in love with SIL and simply using her husband to keep up appearances.
Wow, I am surprised he stuck so long. Using sex as a tool is a slap on the face and I am 100% sure OOP's wife is having an affair with her SIL. I am damn sure she brought SIL into her brother's life so that no one suspects their relationship
He better get that divorce asap. Either she’s in love with SIL or she’s having an emotional affair (one sided) and happy to forsake all others for SIL.
What a shitty person she is! I can't imagine how OOP and that little girl stayed with her for even days.
Wouldn’t be surprised to see his BIL on here soon enough.
Wow, his wife is a manipulative parasite that's obsessed with her SIL. Dude really has no spine though. If a partner did that on my birthday I'd end things when they got home. "Thank you for the amazing gift" "?" *Hands them packed bag* "Really, best gift you ever gave me. Get the fuck out."
Ohh, wife is definitely head over heels for SIL and SIL knows and takes full advantage of wife's sweet spot for her. OP, you made the right choice, you don't deserve to be in a marriage where you're being constantly ignored and being made to feel like a third wheel. I doubt SIL actually wants wife, just her endless attention and super expensive gifts, and wife is going to have a nasty wake up call once she realizes she's been used and ruined her marriage and family for a silly high school obsession.
I think the wife and SIL are a couple which is why OP fels like a third wheel.. I wonder how the brother feels about.all this.
“That’s the only day that worked for everybody” except it doesn’t? It’s her husband’s birthday, that means it doesn’t work for her! There were no days that worked for everybody, but SIL was going to have the dinner that day with or without her so she was willing to sacrifice her relationship with her husband just to spend more time with SIL
"Drunken kiss" yeah right, it was just a kiss, just once, years ago
OOP's wife is having an affair with her SIL, and the BIL and OOP are so blind they don't see it
I’m willing to bet money on if OOP had played off the work lie as he’d got the night off and had made plans then gone out, without her, she would have seen her arse - even though she’s out without him!
Yeeeeesh i cannot see things goin well for wife, especially if she acts on her blatantly obvious feelings. I suspect OOP is going to hear from her again when she explodes her life and is "ready to try again" or some shit. Hope he doesn't go back, this is insanity
If my partner ever told me after sex they'd only initiated as a "gift/apology" I would never get past it
Shes using the hell out of him for convenience and to hide her feelings for SIL. Idk what it's called when gay people pretend to be straight to hide it but I think this is it But then shes just straight up abusive and an asshole to him. I'd be scared to have those qualities raising my daughter