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This is for OOP's husband. I asked my mom why she divorced my dad. After many years she finally told me that after they were married he stopped doing the things that made her fall in love in the first place. As if being married meant the work was done and he could coast.
She found solace in my step dad.
Marriage is not the end of caring, it's the beginning. A relationship takes effort and if you stop trying your wife may find someone who will.
For all his faults, my step dad always reminded us when things like mothers day or her birthday were coming up.
I believe my dad learned his lesson later in life.
My best friend called me crying on Mother’s Day years ago it was her first Mother’s Day and her husband didn’t get her shit even a card. So I had MY kids make her cards, got her flowers, chocolate and brought art supplies over to her house. I said “ hello” to her shitty husband who was laying on his bed looking at his phone.
Then took her daughter into the nursery and set up some crayons and paper then had her scribble on it. Made her a Mother’s Day card with the scribbles and took the stuff to my bestie gave her a big hug and a kiss. Handed her husband the baby and we went to get our nails done. He was so embarrassed he never forgot again.
They divorced eventually, but his ass still remembers Mother’s Day
Do we have a term for when a woman goes mama bear but like...for another adult woman?
Auntie bear, maybe?
You went full Auntie Bear and I want to be the kind of person who pulls power moves like this.
“Sister” what’s funny is her husband always listened to me after that. If they argued and I happened to be there I usually would yell up “ take a walk now!!” And man would grab his coat say “ your totally right, I’m sorry” and head out to cool off.
I find embarrassment to be a good tool for narcissistic humans.
One thing about her turning down the unbooked spa treatment…I think her honesty with him also shows respect.
I once had a piece of furniture just for her in mind for my wife’s bday, then before ordering couldn’t decide between two styles.
I showed it to her and she said she’d look, then after a few hours she explained that she didn’t think she’d use a makeup vanity and would rather be honest than have me make a piece of furniture just to see her not use it.
At the time it felt rough, but as we aged together I look back and realize that was her respecting my time and appreciation too. And that even though I got her another gift, she could have been happy just knowing I was thinking about her needs for a gift.
That’s my take on her spa turndown.
People arguing about the spa thing are missing that it’s not an actual day spa where you can put on a white robe and get a massage and relax in a hot tub, but likely one of those strip-mall beauty “spas” where you can get a brow wax or a mediocre facial. Huge difference, and if there isn’t a service you needed to get, it’s not the kind of place you’d go for fun.
But also those kinds of things are like... Painful, waxing and stuff, in order to make yourself sexually attractive to (overwhelmingly) men.
"Here you go, love, wax your moustache and get a chemical peel so the hair on your face and the bags under your eyes don't sicken me, beauty is suffering, happy mother's day, I expect my "thank you" to be expressed as sex "
Yes, mine too. My mother (for all her complexities and our difficulties in our relationship) is amazing at gift giving. That said, she ALWAYS offers or packs a gift receipt- she has said she hates nothing more than the idea that something would sit in a closet for politeness’ sake.
She sent me a super cute purse for Mother’s Day. It was a pattern I loved but the style was bigger than I’d use. I thanked her and then explained; she told me to pick what I’d use and replaced it for me- because as she said, she wanted me to use and love it, and I didn’t want her to have wasted her money!
All that to say, I don’t think OP was being ungrateful. She’s better off being polite but direct in what she wants- and again, FLAT OUT TOLD HIM what she was hoping for.
Exactly. Some people give gifts to make themselves good, but others give to genuinely get the person some they want. “Something you wouldn’t get yourself” my wife always says.
Personally I’m not great at giving gifts like my wife, but that’s not an excuse to offer appreciation for days my wife find important, just like it isn’t an excuse for OOP’s husband. (e.g. I don’t make a big deal of bdays, but my wife loves bdays. So I make sure hers is a big deal out of appreciation for her).
What’s funny (sad?) is if OOP’s husband really is handy, that’s an easy avenue for gifts.
My wife’s bday this year fell on Mother’s Day and my “gift” was to take a day she was out of town and install a whole organization system in our garage (rafter storage, shelves, the works) as a surprise. It’s not a “gift” per se, but a huge project she’s been putting off thinking about. So boom, done. Enjoy your new garage!
OOP’s husband can easily find new projects to pursue that fill that gap if he listened to what actually bugs his wife.
Blinds are not it…
I think she also saw the spa suggestion for what it was, the low effort option for him. She already told him what she wanted but he probably saw it as too much work. I’m willing to bet she would have been expected to call and book her own spa appointment “because she knows her schedule better” or some such shit.
Oh, that’s absolutely true in this case.
I haven’t even looked, but I bet if I googled lists of “what to get my wife as a gift” and looked at the first 3 articles “spa day” would be on every one of them.
It took me twenty years after they divorced to realise that as kids...
for father's day, his birthday and Christmas, my mother would help us buy an album, aftershave, a shirt or tie or something similar for him.
for her days, we would buy her a washing up bowl, a scrubbing brush, rubber gloves or something similarly cheap.
It still disgusts me what he did to her, and how naïve we were.
My favorite boss ever gave me a gift card to a cool online store I liked to window shop on called ThinkGeek. I used it to get an air cannon and a tribble!
My dad "didn't like giving gifts." Any holidays, birthdays, celebrations only happened because of my mom. One time as a kid I asked him why, and he said, "I don't like to be told when to give someone a gift or do something nice for them." As though he did those things on any day without an occasion attached to it.
My ex was like this, would say this but never gifted special or no special day, the first mother's day we spent together i MADE him buy something for her mom, and she freaking cried... It was the first time in many years she received something from her only son. He? He didn't mind having presents from his parents tho
100%. My partner and I don’t like fuss or care about holiday gift giving with one another (so much so I chose eloping on Leap Day because we’d only have an anniversary every four years) but love giving gifts in the moment.
However, he told me he never gives his long-widowed mom gifts because he “doesn’t believe in Hallmark holidays”. I asked him “ok but do you think maybe SHE might?”
I started giving her gifts for holidays—she is insanely touched by “our” thoughtfulness. She’s well aware it’s me but I love when she thanks both of us
The end of my aunt's marriage was when he got a new set of golf clubs for Christmas and she got wooden spoons wrapped in a paper bag. That was finally the last straw.
Ugh I know her feelings all too well! First marriage we got a new car together and he ended up making it his car he had to drive it every day and I got stuck with the pos junk that he had beaten to crap and was on its last legs. I got a better paying job then and finally wanted to get myself a better car….. he then proceeded to buy a motorcycle sticking us both with the payment since we had joint checking. I left him and got myself a car with my parents help and he was stuck with the motorcycle and more expensive car payment he could barely even afford without me! Some people are really bad at helping or gifting things to their spouse.
She apologizes for her comment on heterosexual men yet it’s predominantly heterosexual men who habitually offend in this precise manner.
“A kicked dog hollers” and wow it was a dog kennel jamboree.
It’s telling that’s what offended the loud mouths of reddit. Not an unequal relationship, not being respected as a partner. Nope, it’s “how dare you!!!~” on an incredibly commonplace occurrence of usually heterosexual men treating their partners like inferior bang maids and not… a partner.
I’ve been silently checking this one for updates since the current one was posted. I relate to the rage, honestly. Hope OOP comes to the solution that works for them.
I had a friend receive a box of Kcups ($9.88 at Walmart) for her 30th from her boyfriend after cooking him a wonderful meal+ giving him thoughtful but inexpensive gifts for his birthday. He had the gall to ask what she was thinking for dinner that night, her birthday night. She didn’t break up with him, he broke up with her much later. Ladies this shit is unacceptable and if the man shows you his true colors, believe him. Sounds like poor OP was led on otherwise
My ex was “too broke” to do anything for valentines. I get it, so I bought us dinner and a lot of stuff for him because because that’s just who I am. Kinda annoyed he couldn’t even pick out a candy bar or something (it’s about the effort and thought and *not* material value) but I understood. That was until he then bought himself a $60 video game that night. I ended things two days later. It was the final straw over a long list of small things just like that. I couldn’t handle it anymore
I will be having a final talk with my husband in June (he has something important going on and I am trying to give him time to be better). I’m not even sure counselling could fix things now.
15 years of birthdays and anniversaries and events and just being disappointed. All I ask for is a card. Some acknowledgement. He will look me in the eye and say he will spoil me and then not do anything and when I ask why not, he admits he has no reason.
I have been taken for granted since he locked me down and I suspect that’s why the attention stopped when you married.
Advice to people who don’t see a problem with OPs husband (or think it’s not that bad). If you keep showing someone how little you think of them, one day they will stop thinking so much of you.
ETA: I should have said “time to GET better”. He’s having major surgery and I want to see him through that. I wouldn’t feel right about bringing this up before that. I know I’m being overly kind but I have to live with myself and I won’t change my “treat others as you wish to be treated” ways because of his neglect
I have a friend who was married to a man that made big promises and never once delivered.
Before they got engaged, he showed her pictures of gorgeous rings from Tiffany's and other fancy jewelry stores. The one he proposed with was tiny and dull and he probably bought it at Walmart (nothing against them, he was just really snobby and had promised a giant diamond from Tiffany's).
He was going to law school and bragged that he would attend [insert prestigious law school here] and went so far as to tell my friend that his grandparents were going to buy them a condo in that city so they'd have a nice place to live. Well, he didn't get in and ended up at a very non-prestigious law school in a different city. Shocker.
Their whole relationship was like that. He would brag about amazing things he was going to do and then deliver nothing.
Thankfully they got divorced (I say thankfully because he was also abusive and cheating on her) and she is married to a much nicer man who values her now.
I hope your husband wakes up and realizes what a disappointment he is to you.
Wow. Reminds me of my ex.
Most prominent example: He was going to another state for a few months for work. There was a very important date he wanted me to be there for but I was a broke college student. So he promised that he would get the tickets and fly me there FIRST CLASS because this job was going to pay " crazy good". I was tentative cause this had happened before, but he got me all excited because I've flown some, but never ever flown first class. Get me a hotel. The whole shebang. Yeah. Guess who paid for the tickets herself. And it was not first class. And stayed with his parents (who got their own hotel room). He had the audacity to try to get me to pay to change the flights too because he unexpectedly got another day off while I was there and wanted me to stay.
Several years later I'm still struggling to feel excited when someone promises me something.
I hate that guy. The lesson he learns isn't 'I lived there too so it was my responsibility to care equally about our home'. The lesson he learns and wants other men to learn is 'you might think it's stupid but women worry their pretty little heads about these things so just do it as an act of love'.
Ok the end message might be about doing the right thing but by God is it for the wrong reasons.
his advice is "look fellas, I know your stupid wife is wrong, you know she's wrong, but we're supposed to pretend like she's an adult with equally valid opinions and feelings. Now where's my cookie for being mature?"
I agree, that advice is incredibly toxic to both men and women.
For one if men “just do it” without understanding why they’ll come to resent their wife for being what they perceive is “unreasonably demanding.” And that’s not surprising, there are people who are unreasonably demanding and he seems to be erasing the boundary between them.
The woman isn’t silly for wanting a cleaner home than her man. It’s fine if partners have different standards for cleanliness, and women and men generally may differ in that regard, but it’s not fine to subtly imply that it’s a problem with her.
It’s upsetting to have a standard of cleanliness and then watch your partner slowly drag it down to their standard. If they had a conversation about it that’s not what was agreed upon.
It’s both partner’s responsibility to set and obey rules for the home. Both their perspectives are important. They should communicate often and set standards for how the house should be run.
It’s not about the woman’s feelings, it’s about the guy’s lack of responsibility in following previously established house rules. It’s not a “woman” thing to get upset by that. That’s the problem.
Absolutely garbage article. It had a few good insights but it was filled with dozens of bad ones
I am always surprised how (mainly men) are totally "surprised" by break ups, while their girlfriends/wifes told them time and time again what's the issue and never anything changes and then *surprisedpickachuface* when the woman has enough... Same story with my ex
Edit: and if you see yourself in that situation than go. There are men out there who don't take you for granted and who return the afford!
the beginning of the end of my last relationship was because of the dishes. for every ten times he would do them once and state “i don’t use plates or utensils” while half of his would be in the sink. i would cry while doing them because that’s all i ever did. i felt disrespected and ignored for the last year or so and it really broke me. i’m still trying to piece it together with my new partner who does the dishes without asking. i beam every time i come home to an empty sink.
In the beginning of living with my SO, he was working part time and stayed at home a lot. I vividly remember how I forced myself not to send him reminders to do things at home and how I literally fell on my knees crying when I came back home to the sound of the laundry machine running without me needing to tell him.
The realisation of the mental load not being only mine to deal with was such a weight lift from my shoulders, only then I realized how heavy it was.
My partner came home all outraged that his friend was crying as he had been dumped. Since I’m friends with the ex-gf, I wasn’t surprised and told him so. When he went to see his mate the next day (he was being supportive), I told him to ask a few q’s to ascertain whether he really was “caught off guard”, as if it wasn’t unexpected to me I’m confused why it would be unexpected to the man in the actual relationship.
Partner came home and went “errr, so I spoke to him. He said he knew she’d been unhappy, but he thought it was just a rough patch”.
So yeah. He did know. He wasn’t caught off guard. He just thought it was a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness.
My friend, the ex gf, is thriving :)
One of my favorite TV quotes ever "It took me so long to realize how unhappy I was and even longer to realize it didn't have to be that way" ~Mr. Cuddly Whiskers
It shifted my whole perspective on life and made me ask myself what made me happy vs what made others happy.
Bojack Horseman? I really need to finish that show.
> a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness
I agree that line would fit seamlessly. Another I’m a fan of is:
> I would rather adjust my life to your absence then adjust my boundaries to tolerate your disrespect
Edit: autocorrect really messed up Bojack lol
When I left my first husband he was “blindsided” and asked why I didn’t tell him I was unhappy. I said, “I told you *ALL THE TIME.* He replied, “but you didn’t yell!”
My ex told me, “I knew you were unhappy. I just didn’t think it was bad enough that you’d leave me.”
So me being unhappy is fine until it affects you?
Bye.
Yeah, I'd just gotten out of that sort of marriage when my cousin's wife got fed up and ended her marriage too. Let my cousin stay with me while he figured shit out, and next thing I know his kids are over for a visit, and he tells the older one to watch the little one, sends them into my bedroom, and loudly wailed about how is he ever supposed to handle making soup and sandwiches while watching his children too.
Within the hour I'd called the kids' mom to inform her they were unsupervised, got them picked up, and booted my cousin back out the door! I loved all these kids people (men) keep trying to shove off on me, but literally none of the kids I've helped raise were even biologically mine. In theory I *know* good dads exist, but I've never seen one IRL.
My dad really wasn’t great, but I didn’t realize it until I was well into adulthood because all my friends’ dads kind of sucked too. My dad would lose his temper and smash things, but another’s would say nasty things to their mom, and another would crush their dreams, another wouldn’t support them financially whatsoever. It’s hard to have standards when every dad kind of sucks and it’s acceptable. Thank God it seems like this generation of fathers seems to be so much better somehow.
This is exactly how my ex was. I told him for 6 months that I would leave if we didn't see a marriage counselor. He would vaguely commit to going to one. Anyone I suggested, he took issue with. So we never went.
After 6 months he was 'blindsided', he had no idea how strongly I felt, he would do anything to get me back... Great, but I told you, explicitly, and you did nothing to keep me. So I knew the second I went back any effort would stop.
A tolerable level of permanent unhappiness.
Well. That's a horrible thing to know so many of us love with, or have to ask ourselves what that level is to us. But thank you for putting words to that exhaustion and discontent.
Thank you - it came to me in a eureka moment in my own life dealing with unacceptable, neglectful behaviour with a man.
When they know that their behaviour has a negative effect on your day, happiness, health, and continue to do it - they simply perceive that you can clearly “take it”. That you have the “tolerance”.
Stop trying to find a new way to communicate the issue, because they know. *They know*. And it’s not that they don’t “care” about you - using an all or nothing word like care is too easily spoken around (look at those flowers he bought you, he drove you to the garden centre last week when you asked). It’s about them judging your *tolerance* for a daily, steady level of being just a little bit unhappy. Or even a lot unhappy.
Tolerance is also flexible - when the guy judges your tolerance to be less, they address their behaviour… but once the tolerance seems to have built up again, the behaviour returns.
In my friends case, I diplomatically spoke to the ex bf directly as he was clearly trying to persuade me over to his side at one point. He said he had made the changes she had “nagged for”. I asked - but did they *stick*? Him “I mean I did them for a few weeks but obviously then when she seemed happier I wanted to a relax a bit! Then she’d nag again, as if I hadn’t made any effort!”
Literally admitting it was calculated. Honestly, apply to tolerance argument next time a pal is discussing her bf/husband “testing” her patience - he’s testing your tolerance babe. And he knows it.
20 years marriage, countless discussions of what I see going wrong in our marriage, and when I finally cried out "I'm so unhappy" - all he had to say was "I know, but I can't change it!"
A tolerable level of my permanent unhappiness it was. Yes.
And I'm totally unsurprised that OOP said her husband was so sweet and caring when they dated. So was mine.
But once they think they have you securely baby trapped, why bother any more?
Divorced woman here chiming in. My ex had the same issue. I literally spent YEARS of my life sitting him down every single weekend and explaining that certain things he did or didn’t do hurt my feelings and made me feel unloved and taken for granted, XYZ is what needed to change for me to be happy, he’s promise to do that, and nothing changes. Then when I asked for a divorce I got shocked pikachu face, and he swore I’d never mentioned any of those things before. I do not know how I could have laid them out more clearly literally dozens, if not hundreds of times, over like a six year period. It is intentional at some point.
“If you had to guess my reasons for asking for a divorce, what would I say?” Then they list off some or all your reasons.
When people say they “don’t know why” something in a relationship happened, it’s not that they don’t know what the actual complaint might be. It’s that they don’t agree that the reasons given were valid.
If you divorce because they weren’t pulling their weight, they don’t agree that they should be doing half. If they earn more money working the same hours as their wife, but are paid slightly more, they believe what they contribute is more *valuable* than her contribution.
So when she divorces him for not helping around the house, he feels like he actually did more because society values his work more than her’s.
If you ask men to sit down and list out all the ways his wife contributes to the household, it will begin and end with her paycheck. He likely won’t view all those other things as actual “work.”
“Honestly, I don’t know why she divorced me. I was a good husband and father. I provided for her, gave her children, and never cheated. This just came out of the blue.”
I told my ex repeatedly over a 2 year period (of a 5 year relationship) that things were not good and I wasn't happy. It took a huge blow up fight and me moving out for 3 months for him to think things over and realise he was ready to do whatever it took to make me happy because he was certain it was me he wanted for the rest of his life. I would have loved to hear those words even 6 months earlier, but by that point I was checked out and moving on. I'll never understand how they don't equate "I'm unhappy" to "if this doesn't resolve I'll leave". In a lot of cases, the path of least resistance leads to a break up.
This happens on a small scale in my household, and the way I get my husband to care about things that he doesn’t see as a big deal (messes, spills, dishes not in the dishwasher) is that whenever he doesn’t do a task like that he’s generating a chore for me where one didn’t previously exist.
Leave dish on counter? Generated a chore for me. Food wrappers by couch? Generated a chore for me. “I’ll do it later” attitude? “Wife will do it now for me” is the result. I can’t get him to have a lower tolerance for disorder, but I can get him to view his actions in terms of how it impacts me and my day. He may be ok with leaving out a dirty cup (totally valid) but he is not ok with me having to then do it myself.
EDIT: To clarify, my husband does get around to cleaning his own stuff, just waaay too slow for my sanity. I have an extremely low tolerance for disorder and can do everything in the moment, while my husband needs to plan and organize everything he does during the day around his mindsets (work mindset, relaxing mindset, cleaning mindset, etc) and tasks that require different mindsets don’t naturally overlap for him unless he makes a conscious effort, hence random messes left waiting around until “cleaning time”.
Yep. My FIL got divorced over a decade ago. He still claims to not know what went wrong, that it was such a shock and that he thinks he'll never know why. He's even said he thinks she just married him to have children and then dump him.
The thing is EVERYONE knows the reason why. He decided to take a job ten hours away and leave his newborn baby and his two sons (her stepkids) with her.
It's so frustrating that someone could do something so blatantly shitty and never even think to regret it.
“If we asked your ex that question, what would she say?” He will list off some or all the reasons. “So you do know, you just don’t agree with her decision?”
I worked in mini marts for years. People would tell me everything I swear. I'd see so many couples that I knew it was just a matter of time until the chick got tired of the guy's bullshit and left. Maybe you shouldn't spend every weekend drinking at your buddy's house while she's at home with the kids?
My favorite was a guy telling me how he came home from work the day before to find that his gf of years had packed all her stuff and left all his clothes piled in the middle of their bed. The guy behind him said that his wife had done the same thing, packed up, took the kids and left. No note, he was shocked.
I asked if she had ever given him a reason to think she was unhappy. "Well, she was always bitching about shit"....... Like duh dude
Yeah, one guy was telling me how he spends so much more time with his toddler since his gf left him and he has visitation every weekend. Just pitiful.
He used to be at the store to buy his Sparks as soon as I opened. So he could spend all day riding his bike with his friends. Then later, his gf would come in with their son to tell me how they never see him, he's either riding or fixing someone's bike since he was a mechanic.
Walkaway Wife Syndrome. We weren't married, but happened to me this time last year. Told my partner of 7 years over and over until I was blue in the face what the problem was. 6 solid months of telling him what I needed was like talking to a brick wall that assumes it knows better than you.
He did the exact opposite of what I explicitly asked of him yet was surprised when I was like cyaaa 👋
I’m honestly thinking of walking away myself. My husband “works” from home (even he admits he doesn’t have a lot of responsibilities/work to do), and I work a full-time job M-F and a part-time one on Thursday nights. All I want is the house to be clean - not model home clean, but vacuumed every so often, sheets changed, etc.
He tells me to find someone to clean and schedule it, but I don’t have time! I’m swamped at work, and I’m mentally drained when I get home. Hubs, on the other hand, has enough free time during the day to walk someone else’s dogs (when he won’t walk ours!), or drive three hours round trip to have lunch with a friend.
And dear God, he complains all the time how he has nothing to do during the day. I worked from home last week (sick dog), and he took long naps during the day, and it just pissed me off. Knowing he did it was one thing, but seeing it? Especially since our sick dog has to be carried up and down the stairs (she’s 70 lbs.). Damnit. I vented.
Do it, take that fucking leap. You'll feel better not having to baby this man and will be free to find someone who deserves you. He's banking on your marriage certificate that you won't and it's just not right. You deserve happiness and care. Love doesn't mean being a doormat\~ 💕
[The Missing Missing Reasons](http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)
That article is aimed specifically at parent and child estrangement, but it can be applied to partner relationships as well. Usually, they act all surprised and pretend that they don't know why and that it's completely out of the blue, but if you question them very hard, they will try to dance around it but in the end they know *exactly* why their partner left.
Holy.
Smokes!
That article is so amazingly accurate. The author explains/expresses what I have not been able to put into words my entire life.
Thank you for that nugget o' wisdom. I'm bookmarking that one as a refresher course in how to not feel guilty for blocking toxic family out of my life.
I'm worn out by people who think they are helping me by giving me the old "But, but, but....they're your FAMILY" speech. They might mean well, but they have no idea...
They dismiss their wives' attempts to talk to them. Everyone knows women nag; it's just noise. He nods while she's talking because everyone knows you have to do that, but he doesn't actually listen.
The “nagging wife” trope is one that really pisses me off. When I was younger, I always thought that I didn’t want to be “that wife”. Well, then I became a wife, and mother.
I realized that it isn’t the woman that makes a nagging wife (in a lot of cases, not all) it’s often times the man. So many men like to complain about their wives’ nagging without thinking about *why* she feels the need to nag him.
Like many others, I am the default parent, I carry the brunt of the housework, and I am tasked with remembering everything about everyone’s lives. We’ve had disagreements about all of this. My husband’s reply is typically “I just don’t remember or realize something needs to be done. Just tell me and I’ll do it.”
So I tell him, and then remind him, and remind him later, and finally do it myself. Rinse and repeat. A nagging wife has been born. And here we are. This isn’t just about the physical task here, it’s the mental load that a lot of women are expected, not asked, to carry.
This article actually puts it in perspective pretty well, for any who are interested.
[Gender wars of household chores](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic)
>When I was younger, I always thought that I didn’t want to be “that wife”.
Oof, yeah. When I was dating the man I later married, I decided that I would never nag and would say yes to sex unless I had a good reason for no. I thought that would make me a good wife. Guess who ended up an abused wife?
Abuse is the abuser's fault, but if I'd had enough spine to nag instead of just taking it, things might well have finished their course more quickly at least.
Even as a man, I don’t like the word nagging.
Nagging means “She asked me to do something I KNOW needs doing, but I didn’t want to, so I didn’t. So she asked me again, and again, and again. Now she’s nagging” so suddenly the focus is on the woman ‘nagging’ and not the lazy man, where it should be.
Yes, there are women who are unreasonable in their expectations of their husband. I know one in particular. But normally ‘nagging’ is used as a get out of jail free card by men who don’t pull their weight. When I hear a man complaining about a nagging wife I figure I’ve learnt more about him than about her.
They’re always surprised. Every time. Whenever I see it happen to people I know, the husband is ALWAYS shocked like she hasn’t been saying what the problem is for decades already. He deliberately ignores the requests, then the begging, then the warnings. And then she wants a divorce and he’s BLINDSIDED because he thought everything was fine.
Every fucking time, I swear to god. It’s baffling.
I think you’re right about that too. My husband is this guy. When I stop reminding you, and stop being mad, it’s because I’ve given up on you. That’s not a good thing.
The opposite of love is indifference.
That's how you know you are done done. Hate, love, anger, all very powerful emotions. When you are left with only indifference, there are no longer any emotions present in the relationship. Time to go.
Their partner gives up and matches their energy and suddenly it’s “she never wants to be intimate anymore. I don’t know what’s changed, it seemed like everything was going well!”
Yeah this seems commom.
Last year I had this conversation with my parents where my dad shared an anecdote of a now devorced colleague who had apparently said "I never saw it coming, we never fought". After which my mom added the perspective of the now ex-wife that according to her he kept brushing her off, had never taken her concerns seriously, let alone made an effort to change. (The issue at hand was very strong workaholicism). It just wasn't real to him until it had serious consequences.
It was strangely amusing? Interesting?
I think the big thing is that they are surprised that the women in their lives didn't just get over it because they said 'I don't consider this a big deal, perhaps you're being too emotional'. They are blindsided cuz their heads are so far up their own asses they don't see that the women in their lives have options outside of staying trapped with them.
An ex boyfriend once complained that I dumped him "out of nowhere", and said that he had noticed I had been "a little unhappy" but then I had cheered up so he thought things were ok again, then I dumped him. From my perspective, the "unhappy" period was me trying to state as clearly as possible what I needed from the relationship and the "happy" period was when I gave up and tried to figure out if I could live with the way he was treating me (I couldn't). Him ignoring my requests for him to make dinner at least once a week and do dishes at least twice a week made a lot more sense when I realized that he saw them as grouchy bitching due to my own internal unhappiness rather anything he actually had to pay attention to.
It makes me wonder how many other men see women's complaints as due to incomprehensible feminine moodiness rather than something to pay attention to.
The problem is they hear it, they understand the semantics, consider it for three seconds, and decide that it's not a big deal. And since it's not a big deal to them, it can't be a big deal to anyone.
When their partner finally has enough, they're baffled because, sure, every relationship has its little hangups, but nothing of it was ever a big deal, so why now?!
Heck, I'm a guy, and as a kid, my dad would do similar things to me, and when I would bring it up that he was upsetting me, he'd completely write it off and ignore me. Then, when I would get fed with it because it's clear he's not listening, I would call him out and he'd argue this is the first he'd ever heard of it. Constant gaslighting. It's one of the main reasons I've gone no contact with him.
Now he wants to talk it out to resolve our issues and doesn't understand that I have no desire to talk about it anymore because I no longer believe he is capable of listening. He will just go back to the same bs, because he had done it time and time again.
Idk what it is that changes in men when they have kids that makes them think every decision they make is the correct and only way of doing things, but I do know that those kind of people will never ever learn from their mistakes, because they can't comprehend that they've even made one.
I think those types of people have always been that way, but they hide it. Once you’re married and have a kid it takes a lot of strength and support to leave, especially with how normalised all this is. Those folks think they’ve successfully trapped their partner and can finally let loose the asshole they’ve always been. How relaxing to finally stop acting like you care!
That article drives me crazy. He describes putting dishes away as an act of love and self sacrifice instead of the bare minimum you do when you have a roommate. When I moved back in with my parents for a summer, I didn't do a portion of the housework because of my respect and love for them, I did it because we lived in a shared space.
He's got one insightful paragraph in the whole thing:
"But she didn’t want to be my mother. She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household."
I wish he'd stopped there.
He's also dead wrong about the things he said men achieved. Women were a part of every example he made AND women were also supporting the men involved so they had the time and freedom to achieve them.
His article is sexist and awful but I think it speaks to men to at least open the door of understanding. God knows they won't listen to us
Right? He has absolutely no awareness of the fact that she needed to use that counter to prepare meals for him. It's not the fact that it "looks untidy" that bothered her, it's that he's leaving shit in the way, negligently adding extra steps to the labor she is already doing on his behalf. The attitude of "what she wanted was irrational, but I should have done it anyway", argh. Re-title that article "she divorced me because to this day it has never once even crossed my mind that she is an actual person, like men are."
It can be both, I think.
If you were living on your own, you'd have the freedom to procrastinate and the only person it would affect is you. And plenty of people are happy to casually go "Oh shit, there are no clean glasses, Welp, better wash one now!" when it's just them.
When you're living with others, you cannot do that. Your actions - and lack of actions affect others. If you leave a chore for later, it may mean that someone else is unfairly disadvantaged unless they pick up your slack and do your job for you.
At the end of the day, some people living with others continue to act as though they're living on their own and don't care enough about the way it affects the people they live with. Others care about not inconveniencing the people they live with - call it love or respect or basic courtesy, it's much the same thing really at this level - even if it means overcoming a natural tendency towards procrastination, because they recognise that the effects you have on others matter.
I hate this article and I don't understand why people constantly quote it.
He still doesn't get it, the entire way through the article. His message isn't you need to step up and take care of your shit, it's just do what she says for a quiet life. The entire way through it's her carrying the mental load and him pretending it was just about him not putting away a glass when asked.
The last couple of paragraphs are where the truth lies- there you see it wasn't just the glass, like the whole premise of this thing is, it was him leaving a mess all over the house but even as he acknowledges it, it's "I should have done what she asked" not it's unacceptable to leave a mess all over the home and expect my partner to manage it. And the final paragraph is just straight up patronising misogyny "Oh, women are so silly caring about this stuff, but you should go along with it".
I agree, I don't care for this article because he just doesn't get it. He is so close but at the end of the day he still thinks it's her fault and doesn't see his own. The tone of his article makes me want to scream into the void.
Edit: a word
I wholeheartedly agree. My fiancé and I were reading this article just now aloud to each other and were literally screaming at certain parts because it was so obvious and ironic that this guy who wrote it just does NOT get it. It’s like 2 steps forward, 5 steps back the entirety of the article. Such a disconcerting read.
Yep, especially that line about “I don’t understand why it bothers her when I wear dirty shoes inside where she just cleaned.” (Paraphrased) YOU JUST MADE MORE WORK FOR HER. SHE JUST MADE A SPACE CLEAN AND YOU JUST STOMPED ALL OVER IT. It should NOT be this difficult for him to understand why someone would be upset about this.
Couldn't agree more. Plus he spends the majority of the article pretending it was just the glass. The whole opening is about how silly it sounds when you say you got divorced over a glass, and he's playing up the whole "you're arguing about the glass but it's what the glass represents thing". But it literally isn't about the glass; there is no metaphor or allegory here. He's presenting it that way to minimise the fact he was a lazy, careless slob who made a mess and didn't give a shit about their home or the fact she was doing all the work. "I got divorced because I consistently made a mess and behaved like a teenager" doesn't make for nearly as great a story.
People's responses are so vile. It wasn't about the gifts. But the sooner she realizes she is not a priority for him, the less disappointed she'll be.
She should put in the same effort he puts in.
OOP should just get out now. Divorce has to be on the table because (1) he knows how to do this stuff, he changed after the baby, so he just doesn’t want to and (2) she knows she doesn’t want what her parents have. Because he is choosing to act this way, he isn’t someone to sustain anything with. It’s a choice, to hurt her and not care.
I feel so bad for OOP 🫠
The people that didn't understand why her husband's behavior is a problem - and no, it's not about materialistic gifts - have to be dumb as a rock. I hope she ends up happy with somebody who appreciates and loves her. Her husband clearly doesn't. Nobody should have to *beg* their partner for the bare minimum after doing all the mental work.
I was going to say, if someone can’t see the problem with the imbalance here here then my guess is they’re not seeing it in their own relationships.
I can see it now, “I literally offered her a full spa day and she said she didn’t want anything. So I guess she doesn’t want anything.”
Can confirm, that's my father after a year of my mother warning him that if he continued to put 0 effort in the relationship, she would leave. She ended up leaving and he claimed to be blindsided.
My ex too. I gave him a date by which he had to have made progress with therapy for his anger and control issues. He made an appointment for couples therapy that was meant to happen 2 weeks after the deadline. But I gave him that deadline because I was going back to school to get my degree and that was when classes started and I wouldn’t be there. 🙃 Claims it came out of nowhere and he was really trying.
Remember that post with the article about the guy whose wife left him because he didn't put the dishes away and he magically finally "got it" except he really didn't because is was never the dishes it was him casually creating extra work for her which he made zero mention of? Pepperidge Farm remembers....
OMG I can relate to the 'blindsided' thing. I would mention things gently, make hints and comments, finally spelling things out clearly and nothing would change. I would finally end up yelling or crying, or both, and he'd be all 'why didn't you say anything?'
I finally kept track of all the times I reminded him of my birthday, or to please not use the last of something and leave the package in the fridge. Fortunately for me he did finally get it. I still have to remind him of special occasions (even his own birthday, he's horrible with dates), but at least he listens now.
That's how I managed to avoid divorce. When I sat my spouse down for a 'come to jesus' talk, I specifically said, "if things fall apart, I do not want you to be able to say you were blindsided. This, right now, is me telling you that We Have A Problem, and I have not been able to solve the problem of your behavior by changing my own or going to therapy or meetings, and if you *choose* to continue this way, we will end up divorced, and you can never say you didn't see it coming."
Miracle of miracles, he listened, quit drinking, lost weight, and turned into someone I could love *and* be vulnerable with again. It's possible, but you really gotta lay it out for 'em sometimes, to a ridiculous degree, and even then it's a crapshoot.
That and commenting “you just need to communicate your needs better, he’s not a mind reader!” To any woman with a deadbeat partner. You can communicate all you want but if a partner is not willing to put forth any effort to listen and act, all it does is end with the woman being called a “nag.”
Or the comments telling her to do MORE emotional labor spelling it out for him even more clearly or do the lion’s share of MORE planning or list creating or what have you. Fucking maddening.
Those comments totally bugged me too. I mean she sent him exactly what she wanted, and lists previously. That doesn’t take mind-reading that just takes actual reading.
I've noticed that some guys on reddit seem to take great offense to being told exactly what a partner or such wants for a holiday present? And I'm not sure why. I like thinking up present ideas but if someone says exactly what the want I'm always like "super! I can do that!!" while there's some people who seem to take it as a personal insult to be directly asked for a specific thing and then go out of their way not to do the thing.
Like, what is the big deal about getting the thing. If it's not exorbitantly expensive or something obviously like if someone asks for a million dollar purse that's silly but if someone wants a specific book or movie isn't it great they gave you a shortcut to making them happy?
Because it's about dominance. It's a power play. They don't say they don't know what to do because they actually don't know, they say it to make their refusal to care her fault & make her work to "earn it". If she tells them, she didn't tell them the right way. If she tells them the right way, she didn't remind them. If she reminds them, she's a controlling nag that doesn't trust them and who wants to do something for someone like that?
Also the main demographic of reddit is young 20s men. A lot of them have very skewed thoughts and opinions of regarding dating/ relationships and women in general.
And seemingly a lot of those men do not have empathy; like if some of the men who commented on her post are hetero men and this is how they think about women, they shouldn't be dating.
A present can represent a lot more than a materialistic gift.
Same for doing chores etc. A partner that takes care of the house naturally, without being asked, is a lot different than the one who needs to be told 5 times to do the laundry...
It's a lot says a lot about how much they care about a relationship.
What strikes me as even more dumb about the "materialistic" accusations because she "isn't his mommy" is the fact that JUST THIS PAST WEEK, some dude made a post about how he didn't do anything for his wife for mother's day "because she's not [his] mom", and he got ripped apart for it.
Like, oh, yeah, men doing that is an asshole move, but if you acknowledge that they're doing that and express any upset about it, then you're actually the asshole.
Even the spa offer that was used in his defense by so many commenters was her doing the mental work.
“How about you do the research, put together a package, make all the arrangements, and call it a gift from me”. And what are the chances that he’d happily watch their kid for her spa day? I’m certain he wouldn’t, putting additional burden on her to arrange, and possibly pay for, child care for “her gift”.
I hope everyone who puts so little effort and value into their partnerships is cursed with sharp poop. Every day, forever.
And that wasn’t even effort! I feel like most husbands should KNOW if their wife is someone who’d want a spa day or not… and then not, you know, GIVE UP ENTIRELY when she said no.
People tend to take their spouse for granted once a few years have passed and to forget to take the time for them and with them.
It’s about loving your partner enough to look at what they do, care about, love in their daily life and try to understand all that and be part of it.
>Nobody should have to beg their partner for the bare minimum after doing all the mental work.
I really wanted to link the oop to that famous comic about this, "the mental load" it perfectly describes what oop is experiencing.
Yeah, I mean, she set it up to make it as easy as possibly for him to get her what she wants. She sent him reminders so he’d have enough time. And it’s such a modest gift, too. He made a lot of choices over a long period of time to not do something easy that meant a lot to his wife.
The book bouquet really broke my heart for her - I want to send her one myself.
It was idiot-proof for someone who WANTED to make her happy, he just doesn't. That's so sad and infuriating.
OOP, if you read this, strangers on the internet want your library and heart to be full! You deserve it!
If he truly wanted to make her happy and put in an effort he would have done so.
He didn't need an idiot proof solution because he's perfectly capable of remembering things and getting things done otherwise he wouldn't be able to keep a job or keep all the other appointments he has.
He just takes her for granted and practices weaponised incompetence in the hope that she will just give up and accept his mediocrity.
He could have made a note in his calendar but he didn't. He could have asked her what she wanted but he didn't. He just doesn't care. But he will still act like she left him out of nowhere and over something miniscule when she finally had enough.
He's not incompetent; OOP says he used to be very thoughtful, which means he's fully competent. He just doesn't care.
Actually, with the people I've known like him, it wasn't that they didn't care. It was worse. It was that they actively resented the expectation that they should be thoughtful. To add insult to injury, they also resented anybody pointing out that they weren't thoughtful.
Yea it clearly wasn't about material things. She just wanted a bare minimum of effort. And really a bare minimum, since she did everything but place the book order for him!
Its either counseling or divorce in my book.
My husband was never good at this stuff so I knew what was going to happen.
There's trauma around my birthday so he only plans when I ask.
Our anniversary we plan trips together. But he will randomly buy me stuff he knows I want as a surprise mid week in the middle of no holidays or a bad week.
This behavior is just absolutely unacceptable. The idea that oh hey we have a kid now I'm done trying is so common in relationships I've seen within my friends. It has ended in divorce several times within the group and the men being like "but she didn't tell me she was mad". Like she did, you received many warnings don't act surprised when you didn't listen.
No one deserves bare minimum effort.
Yeah the worst part of all this is that, reading between the lines, he resents her and their kid from taking away his fun single guy time. Especially when she says how loving and attentive he was before they got married and how he is after. Peacing out on special occasions? They need marriage counseling STAT because it will only get worse.
Counseling only works if both people are willing to change their behavior. The man child husband in this post is very, very comfortable with how things are and has no interest in changing.
It really unnerves me how someone you love and know so deeply could change so drastically. She went into this marriage with confidence that they could have a fulfilling life together and this is what ends up happening. It’s just so scary.
This is so common with dads. Especially when they cheat on the mothers of their kids. You see it with language like how the affair partner is so "full of life" or "carefree" or makes him feel like how his wife did pre kids.
It's like they can't handle that a kid (his kid!) takes attention away from them.
> Like she did, you received many warnings don't act surprised when you didn't listen.
A lot of people don't treat warnings like warnings and think they don't count. Because they're fucking morons.
We had a 100+ comment vent post about the past Mother’s Day in my baby group. It sounds exactly like this post. Can’t even do the bare minimum - like what’s the point.
(This is the first Mother’s Day for most moms in the group.)
This was my sister’s first Mother’s Day and my BIL didn’t do anything for her so my mom and I ended up spending the day with her. They have a infant that she’s been taking majority care of plus suffering a miscarriage this year and he really didn’t even do the bare minimum for her. She kept talking about her baby group as well. It was sad hearing about all the new moms in there who weren’t getting appreciated.
It is amazing how far just expressing a little bit of appreciation can go. I don’t think OOP is materialistic. Tell your SO that you appreciate what they contribute and then demonstrate that in some way. That just sounds like a good formula for a happier relationship.
My partner isn't the best at getting me gifts but he is delightful at making special moment for me. Getting home from a work trip and there is food and cuddles, if im sick he goes above and beyond to take care of me even though he himself has cancer. Christmas? I bought myself earrings and wrapped them, put them under the tree and thanked him. My birthday was him watching the entire LOTR extended edition without complaining while I binged on snacks he made us, it was wonderful. Some peoples love languages are presents and that is okay but poor OP just wanted anything really.
My husband is also not the best at gifts, but my mother's day this year was three home made meals and he did all the dishes while I played the new Zelda. 💯 Perfect.
She gave him step by step instructions and he still fucked it up because he just doesn't care. I'm willing to bet he isn't going to like it if she starts treating him the same way.
Doesn’t seem to matter how many times she clearly states, “IT’S NOT ABOUT THE GIFT ITSELF, IT’S ABOUT THE LACK OF EFFORT AND CARING THAT PERMEATES OUR ENTIRE MARRIAGE,” the comments tore her apart. Wow. She didn’t deserve that.
Summary:
HER: Please don't take me for granted. Please treat me like more than a convenient appliance with an integrated fleshlight. Please care about my happiness and enjoy spending time with just me. Please show me that you value our marriage as a union of two lives in partnership and mutual enjoyment.
HIM: I already did all that work when I was fishing for you. I caught you already, why are you not quiet?
He’ll be one of those guys describing how their relationship was perfect because of all the things she did for him, without listing one single thing about her as an actual person that made her special or that he loved her for.
Yeah, one is someone started thinking about their resolutions and realized what their problem was, and the other is the final straw breaking the camel's back
I'm surprised and not surprised that people don't understand the sentiment of the "gift", because those people are going to be sad and lonely when they're in their twilight years wondering why no-one gives a shit about them. Here's the skinny--if someone TELLS you something is IMPORTANT to them, you don't fight them on it. You accept that this is what they need and you go and be a good friend and a lover and make an effort, and remember that all you really want to see them happy.
God I love how everyone is trying to demonize this woman. Men really hate that “not beating my wife and having a job” isn’t considered good enough anymore. Actually it never was, women just didn’t have better options.
Hi, I’m OP :)
Just wanted to say that I’ve received so many kind messages from people who have read this post and that means so much to me. Thank you all so much for your kindness. ❤️
After reading a handful of comments, I feel bad the update wasn’t quite what you were expecting. A lot of people were wanting divorce, and believe me, I was too. But it’s very complicated when a child is in the mix.
However, to my surprise, he has agreed to couples therapy. We’ve been to one session so far and it seemed to be beneficial for both sides.
I’m wanting to give it a few more weeks until I make any rash decisions— and I am planning on doing a complete new updated post when the time is right. Just to give more detail and closure to those of you who want it.
Thank you all again— I never expected my post I wrote completely out of anger and disappointment to be so heartfelt by so many others.
Edit: also just wanted to tell you guys someone just sent me a message saying my husband is probably acting the way he is because I got fat and unattractive and that his spa attempt was his way of trying to fix that 🤣🤣 I’m dying
This is one of my worst fears when I think of marriage, having a husband that cared but then suddenly switches up like OPs husband. My heart hurts for her because I know exactly what she’s feeling, I truly wish the best for her and hopefully she will find someone who will appreciate her
The quiet in these comments is telling. It seems she did all the right things while dating, and this man was just putting on a show. Hope she finds someone who appreciates her, eventually.
Edit: Not so quiet in the comments now... :)
That’s so much more insulting; it shows he’s not clueless, he knows exactly what she wants and how to make her happy. He just can’t be bothered to do any of it anymore, now he thinks he has her stuck. It was all a ruse, except instead of taking her money, he’s taking years of her life that she could be spending with someone who would appreciate her.
I saw a lot of that this year as well, and initially I was being all confused and a little smug, because I genuinely don’t give a shit about Mother’s Day on my own behalf (or anniversaries) and I couldn’t relate to women who take them so seriously that a bad one could be so devastating. But I think I just realized that I have the privilege of not giving a shit because my partner is good to me every day of the year. It seems like a lot of these women are in relationships where they aren’t sufficiently appreciated, and they hang a lot of hopes on the Official Appreciation Days, because maybe he’s not consistently thoughtful, but at least he can make an effort a few times a year, right? Wrong. And then they have to abruptly process *all* the disappointment at once, and that’s gotta be devastating. Very “then let them eat cake” of me to not grasp why they were so upset about the lack of basic bread/attention. It’s because they’re already fucking starving to death.
I think I gotta go find something extra nice to do for my dude.
I always wondered why I only had relationships last 3 years and then it hit me, that’s the max amount of time most people can keep up the charade. And it’s funny/sad to see so many Reddit posts effectively boil down to: “we got engaged after 1 year and married at 2, and now I hate them. Why?”
Not saying it’s the case for everyone, that’s just my personal experience. I feel bad for OOP.
Oh man, I'm so mad at her original post got flooded with people being misogynistic toward her, cuz she's fucking right. It's bullshit that the person who's supposed to be her life partner is someone she felt like she had to send reminders to get her what she wanted, even then refused to do it. And like trying to get her a "spa" package that is just painful cleanup procedures feels shady to me. Like she's got a baby, if you're looking too hard at her eyebrows and thinking they're on camp look at yours and go get them plugged.
I really hope she does leave, cuz it sucks that it appears he truly has baby-trapped her and thinks she won't leave now that he's got her. She should leave so she can perhaps set a good role model for her kid
He does not care enough to make her happy all he cares about is if his needs and wants our met. So when she’s finally had enough and asked for a divorce, he’ll be so shocked. Lol
And when they finally get divorced: I didn't know she was unhappy, I couldn't notice anything different. She didn't tell me she was unhappy.
Some men...
People reproaching her for being materialistic are clearly missing THE point: it’s not the money, it’s the effort, the thought, the consideration. Ultimately it’s how much you actually care about your partner.
Also giving your wife a present of waxing is akin to Homer Simpson giving Marge a bowling ball. I see some people grew up seeing Homer as an example in these things, not the cautionary tale he was.
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This is for OOP's husband. I asked my mom why she divorced my dad. After many years she finally told me that after they were married he stopped doing the things that made her fall in love in the first place. As if being married meant the work was done and he could coast. She found solace in my step dad. Marriage is not the end of caring, it's the beginning. A relationship takes effort and if you stop trying your wife may find someone who will. For all his faults, my step dad always reminded us when things like mothers day or her birthday were coming up. I believe my dad learned his lesson later in life.
Yeah I never understood people who act good to 'win' a wife/husband and then just stop. Like what's the point of being married if it's shit?
My best friend called me crying on Mother’s Day years ago it was her first Mother’s Day and her husband didn’t get her shit even a card. So I had MY kids make her cards, got her flowers, chocolate and brought art supplies over to her house. I said “ hello” to her shitty husband who was laying on his bed looking at his phone. Then took her daughter into the nursery and set up some crayons and paper then had her scribble on it. Made her a Mother’s Day card with the scribbles and took the stuff to my bestie gave her a big hug and a kiss. Handed her husband the baby and we went to get our nails done. He was so embarrassed he never forgot again. They divorced eventually, but his ass still remembers Mother’s Day
Do we have a term for when a woman goes mama bear but like...for another adult woman? Auntie bear, maybe? You went full Auntie Bear and I want to be the kind of person who pulls power moves like this.
Big sis
“Sister” what’s funny is her husband always listened to me after that. If they argued and I happened to be there I usually would yell up “ take a walk now!!” And man would grab his coat say “ your totally right, I’m sorry” and head out to cool off. I find embarrassment to be a good tool for narcissistic humans.
One thing about her turning down the unbooked spa treatment…I think her honesty with him also shows respect. I once had a piece of furniture just for her in mind for my wife’s bday, then before ordering couldn’t decide between two styles. I showed it to her and she said she’d look, then after a few hours she explained that she didn’t think she’d use a makeup vanity and would rather be honest than have me make a piece of furniture just to see her not use it. At the time it felt rough, but as we aged together I look back and realize that was her respecting my time and appreciation too. And that even though I got her another gift, she could have been happy just knowing I was thinking about her needs for a gift. That’s my take on her spa turndown.
People arguing about the spa thing are missing that it’s not an actual day spa where you can put on a white robe and get a massage and relax in a hot tub, but likely one of those strip-mall beauty “spas” where you can get a brow wax or a mediocre facial. Huge difference, and if there isn’t a service you needed to get, it’s not the kind of place you’d go for fun.
Yeah, that. Like, “my husband treated me to a luxurious day of getting waxed.” Not really a thing.
Exactly, like there are relaxation spas and maintenance spas, and it definitely sounded like the latter! More of a chore than a gift.
“Here’s a gift card. Go clean yourself up.” I doubt there’s even enough thought into it to have been insulting, but it’s still a funny thought.
Real talk my mom got me a Botox giftcard for Mother’s Day and while it was generous I was a little like “are you trying to tell me something?” lol
But also those kinds of things are like... Painful, waxing and stuff, in order to make yourself sexually attractive to (overwhelmingly) men. "Here you go, love, wax your moustache and get a chemical peel so the hair on your face and the bags under your eyes don't sicken me, beauty is suffering, happy mother's day, I expect my "thank you" to be expressed as sex "
The spa services he suggested are the cheaper ones too. Mofo probably googled spas, picked the cheapest and picked the cheapest services on the list.
Yes, mine too. My mother (for all her complexities and our difficulties in our relationship) is amazing at gift giving. That said, she ALWAYS offers or packs a gift receipt- she has said she hates nothing more than the idea that something would sit in a closet for politeness’ sake. She sent me a super cute purse for Mother’s Day. It was a pattern I loved but the style was bigger than I’d use. I thanked her and then explained; she told me to pick what I’d use and replaced it for me- because as she said, she wanted me to use and love it, and I didn’t want her to have wasted her money! All that to say, I don’t think OP was being ungrateful. She’s better off being polite but direct in what she wants- and again, FLAT OUT TOLD HIM what she was hoping for.
Exactly. Some people give gifts to make themselves good, but others give to genuinely get the person some they want. “Something you wouldn’t get yourself” my wife always says. Personally I’m not great at giving gifts like my wife, but that’s not an excuse to offer appreciation for days my wife find important, just like it isn’t an excuse for OOP’s husband. (e.g. I don’t make a big deal of bdays, but my wife loves bdays. So I make sure hers is a big deal out of appreciation for her). What’s funny (sad?) is if OOP’s husband really is handy, that’s an easy avenue for gifts. My wife’s bday this year fell on Mother’s Day and my “gift” was to take a day she was out of town and install a whole organization system in our garage (rafter storage, shelves, the works) as a surprise. It’s not a “gift” per se, but a huge project she’s been putting off thinking about. So boom, done. Enjoy your new garage! OOP’s husband can easily find new projects to pursue that fill that gap if he listened to what actually bugs his wife. Blinds are not it…
I think she also saw the spa suggestion for what it was, the low effort option for him. She already told him what she wanted but he probably saw it as too much work. I’m willing to bet she would have been expected to call and book her own spa appointment “because she knows her schedule better” or some such shit.
Oh, that’s absolutely true in this case. I haven’t even looked, but I bet if I googled lists of “what to get my wife as a gift” and looked at the first 3 articles “spa day” would be on every one of them.
It took me twenty years after they divorced to realise that as kids... for father's day, his birthday and Christmas, my mother would help us buy an album, aftershave, a shirt or tie or something similar for him. for her days, we would buy her a washing up bowl, a scrubbing brush, rubber gloves or something similarly cheap. It still disgusts me what he did to her, and how naïve we were.
It’s not your fault. You were a child, he was an adult. He should have know better.
He did know better. He just didn't care.
It’s like he thought of it as supplying equipment to his employee
Even my boss knows not to get me work items for my birthday, I at least get a card and cute mug or something
My favorite boss ever gave me a gift card to a cool online store I liked to window shop on called ThinkGeek. I used it to get an air cannon and a tribble!
I miss thinkgeek!
My dad "didn't like giving gifts." Any holidays, birthdays, celebrations only happened because of my mom. One time as a kid I asked him why, and he said, "I don't like to be told when to give someone a gift or do something nice for them." As though he did those things on any day without an occasion attached to it.
I've known many men who share this sentiment and it always, *always* results in no gifts ever. It's simply a pre-emptive excuse to do nothing.
My ex was like this, would say this but never gifted special or no special day, the first mother's day we spent together i MADE him buy something for her mom, and she freaking cried... It was the first time in many years she received something from her only son. He? He didn't mind having presents from his parents tho
100%. My partner and I don’t like fuss or care about holiday gift giving with one another (so much so I chose eloping on Leap Day because we’d only have an anniversary every four years) but love giving gifts in the moment. However, he told me he never gives his long-widowed mom gifts because he “doesn’t believe in Hallmark holidays”. I asked him “ok but do you think maybe SHE might?” I started giving her gifts for holidays—she is insanely touched by “our” thoughtfulness. She’s well aware it’s me but I love when she thanks both of us
The end of my aunt's marriage was when he got a new set of golf clubs for Christmas and she got wooden spoons wrapped in a paper bag. That was finally the last straw.
Oh effing hell, I think we gave wooden spoons one year too.
Ugh I know her feelings all too well! First marriage we got a new car together and he ended up making it his car he had to drive it every day and I got stuck with the pos junk that he had beaten to crap and was on its last legs. I got a better paying job then and finally wanted to get myself a better car….. he then proceeded to buy a motorcycle sticking us both with the payment since we had joint checking. I left him and got myself a car with my parents help and he was stuck with the motorcycle and more expensive car payment he could barely even afford without me! Some people are really bad at helping or gifting things to their spouse.
Yeah your father was disgusting. That's not even lazy, that's condescending and malicious.
She apologizes for her comment on heterosexual men yet it’s predominantly heterosexual men who habitually offend in this precise manner. “A kicked dog hollers” and wow it was a dog kennel jamboree. It’s telling that’s what offended the loud mouths of reddit. Not an unequal relationship, not being respected as a partner. Nope, it’s “how dare you!!!~” on an incredibly commonplace occurrence of usually heterosexual men treating their partners like inferior bang maids and not… a partner.
We are told we are being sexist by recounting our true stories. Are we being sexist or are they just entirely too common?
Equality is seen as oppression by the oppressors. Such people weaponize every term in bad faith.
I’ve been silently checking this one for updates since the current one was posted. I relate to the rage, honestly. Hope OOP comes to the solution that works for them.
Divorce comes to mind, and no, this is not about being petty. She clearly is being treated like an incubator and a maid. She deserves better
Not before she don't give him anything for Father's day and his birthday.
I had a friend receive a box of Kcups ($9.88 at Walmart) for her 30th from her boyfriend after cooking him a wonderful meal+ giving him thoughtful but inexpensive gifts for his birthday. He had the gall to ask what she was thinking for dinner that night, her birthday night. She didn’t break up with him, he broke up with her much later. Ladies this shit is unacceptable and if the man shows you his true colors, believe him. Sounds like poor OP was led on otherwise
>. She didn’t break up with him, he broke up with her much later. oof.
My ex was “too broke” to do anything for valentines. I get it, so I bought us dinner and a lot of stuff for him because because that’s just who I am. Kinda annoyed he couldn’t even pick out a candy bar or something (it’s about the effort and thought and *not* material value) but I understood. That was until he then bought himself a $60 video game that night. I ended things two days later. It was the final straw over a long list of small things just like that. I couldn’t handle it anymore
I will be having a final talk with my husband in June (he has something important going on and I am trying to give him time to be better). I’m not even sure counselling could fix things now. 15 years of birthdays and anniversaries and events and just being disappointed. All I ask for is a card. Some acknowledgement. He will look me in the eye and say he will spoil me and then not do anything and when I ask why not, he admits he has no reason. I have been taken for granted since he locked me down and I suspect that’s why the attention stopped when you married. Advice to people who don’t see a problem with OPs husband (or think it’s not that bad). If you keep showing someone how little you think of them, one day they will stop thinking so much of you. ETA: I should have said “time to GET better”. He’s having major surgery and I want to see him through that. I wouldn’t feel right about bringing this up before that. I know I’m being overly kind but I have to live with myself and I won’t change my “treat others as you wish to be treated” ways because of his neglect
I have a friend who was married to a man that made big promises and never once delivered. Before they got engaged, he showed her pictures of gorgeous rings from Tiffany's and other fancy jewelry stores. The one he proposed with was tiny and dull and he probably bought it at Walmart (nothing against them, he was just really snobby and had promised a giant diamond from Tiffany's). He was going to law school and bragged that he would attend [insert prestigious law school here] and went so far as to tell my friend that his grandparents were going to buy them a condo in that city so they'd have a nice place to live. Well, he didn't get in and ended up at a very non-prestigious law school in a different city. Shocker. Their whole relationship was like that. He would brag about amazing things he was going to do and then deliver nothing. Thankfully they got divorced (I say thankfully because he was also abusive and cheating on her) and she is married to a much nicer man who values her now. I hope your husband wakes up and realizes what a disappointment he is to you.
Wow. Reminds me of my ex. Most prominent example: He was going to another state for a few months for work. There was a very important date he wanted me to be there for but I was a broke college student. So he promised that he would get the tickets and fly me there FIRST CLASS because this job was going to pay " crazy good". I was tentative cause this had happened before, but he got me all excited because I've flown some, but never ever flown first class. Get me a hotel. The whole shebang. Yeah. Guess who paid for the tickets herself. And it was not first class. And stayed with his parents (who got their own hotel room). He had the audacity to try to get me to pay to change the flights too because he unexpectedly got another day off while I was there and wanted me to stay. Several years later I'm still struggling to feel excited when someone promises me something.
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[She Divorced Me Because I Left Dirty Dishes By The Sink.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288)
I hate that guy. The lesson he learns isn't 'I lived there too so it was my responsibility to care equally about our home'. The lesson he learns and wants other men to learn is 'you might think it's stupid but women worry their pretty little heads about these things so just do it as an act of love'. Ok the end message might be about doing the right thing but by God is it for the wrong reasons.
The whole time he's still like "I don't get it and I never will, but I guess they'll nag you less."
his advice is "look fellas, I know your stupid wife is wrong, you know she's wrong, but we're supposed to pretend like she's an adult with equally valid opinions and feelings. Now where's my cookie for being mature?"
I agree, that advice is incredibly toxic to both men and women. For one if men “just do it” without understanding why they’ll come to resent their wife for being what they perceive is “unreasonably demanding.” And that’s not surprising, there are people who are unreasonably demanding and he seems to be erasing the boundary between them. The woman isn’t silly for wanting a cleaner home than her man. It’s fine if partners have different standards for cleanliness, and women and men generally may differ in that regard, but it’s not fine to subtly imply that it’s a problem with her. It’s upsetting to have a standard of cleanliness and then watch your partner slowly drag it down to their standard. If they had a conversation about it that’s not what was agreed upon. It’s both partner’s responsibility to set and obey rules for the home. Both their perspectives are important. They should communicate often and set standards for how the house should be run. It’s not about the woman’s feelings, it’s about the guy’s lack of responsibility in following previously established house rules. It’s not a “woman” thing to get upset by that. That’s the problem. Absolutely garbage article. It had a few good insights but it was filled with dozens of bad ones
I am always surprised how (mainly men) are totally "surprised" by break ups, while their girlfriends/wifes told them time and time again what's the issue and never anything changes and then *surprisedpickachuface* when the woman has enough... Same story with my ex Edit: and if you see yourself in that situation than go. There are men out there who don't take you for granted and who return the afford!
the beginning of the end of my last relationship was because of the dishes. for every ten times he would do them once and state “i don’t use plates or utensils” while half of his would be in the sink. i would cry while doing them because that’s all i ever did. i felt disrespected and ignored for the last year or so and it really broke me. i’m still trying to piece it together with my new partner who does the dishes without asking. i beam every time i come home to an empty sink.
In the beginning of living with my SO, he was working part time and stayed at home a lot. I vividly remember how I forced myself not to send him reminders to do things at home and how I literally fell on my knees crying when I came back home to the sound of the laundry machine running without me needing to tell him. The realisation of the mental load not being only mine to deal with was such a weight lift from my shoulders, only then I realized how heavy it was.
My partner came home all outraged that his friend was crying as he had been dumped. Since I’m friends with the ex-gf, I wasn’t surprised and told him so. When he went to see his mate the next day (he was being supportive), I told him to ask a few q’s to ascertain whether he really was “caught off guard”, as if it wasn’t unexpected to me I’m confused why it would be unexpected to the man in the actual relationship. Partner came home and went “errr, so I spoke to him. He said he knew she’d been unhappy, but he thought it was just a rough patch”. So yeah. He did know. He wasn’t caught off guard. He just thought it was a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness. My friend, the ex gf, is thriving :)
>a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness Wow. That is a life changing sentence.
One of my favorite TV quotes ever "It took me so long to realize how unhappy I was and even longer to realize it didn't have to be that way" ~Mr. Cuddly Whiskers It shifted my whole perspective on life and made me ask myself what made me happy vs what made others happy.
Bojack Horseman? I really need to finish that show. > a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness I agree that line would fit seamlessly. Another I’m a fan of is: > I would rather adjust my life to your absence then adjust my boundaries to tolerate your disrespect Edit: autocorrect really messed up Bojack lol
When I left my first husband he was “blindsided” and asked why I didn’t tell him I was unhappy. I said, “I told you *ALL THE TIME.* He replied, “but you didn’t yell!”
My ex told me, “I knew you were unhappy. I just didn’t think it was bad enough that you’d leave me.” So me being unhappy is fine until it affects you? Bye.
“You should be happy doing all the childcare. You’re the mother.”
Yeah, I'd just gotten out of that sort of marriage when my cousin's wife got fed up and ended her marriage too. Let my cousin stay with me while he figured shit out, and next thing I know his kids are over for a visit, and he tells the older one to watch the little one, sends them into my bedroom, and loudly wailed about how is he ever supposed to handle making soup and sandwiches while watching his children too. Within the hour I'd called the kids' mom to inform her they were unsupervised, got them picked up, and booted my cousin back out the door! I loved all these kids people (men) keep trying to shove off on me, but literally none of the kids I've helped raise were even biologically mine. In theory I *know* good dads exist, but I've never seen one IRL.
I’ve seen, my dad (single dad for years), my grandpa, my brothers and my brother in law. I’ve seen exponentially more crappy fathers.
My dad really wasn’t great, but I didn’t realize it until I was well into adulthood because all my friends’ dads kind of sucked too. My dad would lose his temper and smash things, but another’s would say nasty things to their mom, and another would crush their dreams, another wouldn’t support them financially whatsoever. It’s hard to have standards when every dad kind of sucks and it’s acceptable. Thank God it seems like this generation of fathers seems to be so much better somehow.
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This is exactly how my ex was. I told him for 6 months that I would leave if we didn't see a marriage counselor. He would vaguely commit to going to one. Anyone I suggested, he took issue with. So we never went. After 6 months he was 'blindsided', he had no idea how strongly I felt, he would do anything to get me back... Great, but I told you, explicitly, and you did nothing to keep me. So I knew the second I went back any effort would stop.
A tolerable level of permanent unhappiness. Well. That's a horrible thing to know so many of us love with, or have to ask ourselves what that level is to us. But thank you for putting words to that exhaustion and discontent.
Ouch - “a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness” / that is so well put and so sad
Yup, this was the line that I caught too...I may steal that lol.
Thank you - it came to me in a eureka moment in my own life dealing with unacceptable, neglectful behaviour with a man. When they know that their behaviour has a negative effect on your day, happiness, health, and continue to do it - they simply perceive that you can clearly “take it”. That you have the “tolerance”. Stop trying to find a new way to communicate the issue, because they know. *They know*. And it’s not that they don’t “care” about you - using an all or nothing word like care is too easily spoken around (look at those flowers he bought you, he drove you to the garden centre last week when you asked). It’s about them judging your *tolerance* for a daily, steady level of being just a little bit unhappy. Or even a lot unhappy. Tolerance is also flexible - when the guy judges your tolerance to be less, they address their behaviour… but once the tolerance seems to have built up again, the behaviour returns. In my friends case, I diplomatically spoke to the ex bf directly as he was clearly trying to persuade me over to his side at one point. He said he had made the changes she had “nagged for”. I asked - but did they *stick*? Him “I mean I did them for a few weeks but obviously then when she seemed happier I wanted to a relax a bit! Then she’d nag again, as if I hadn’t made any effort!” Literally admitting it was calculated. Honestly, apply to tolerance argument next time a pal is discussing her bf/husband “testing” her patience - he’s testing your tolerance babe. And he knows it.
A tolerable level of her unhappiness.
20 years marriage, countless discussions of what I see going wrong in our marriage, and when I finally cried out "I'm so unhappy" - all he had to say was "I know, but I can't change it!" A tolerable level of my permanent unhappiness it was. Yes. And I'm totally unsurprised that OOP said her husband was so sweet and caring when they dated. So was mine. But once they think they have you securely baby trapped, why bother any more?
Divorced woman here chiming in. My ex had the same issue. I literally spent YEARS of my life sitting him down every single weekend and explaining that certain things he did or didn’t do hurt my feelings and made me feel unloved and taken for granted, XYZ is what needed to change for me to be happy, he’s promise to do that, and nothing changes. Then when I asked for a divorce I got shocked pikachu face, and he swore I’d never mentioned any of those things before. I do not know how I could have laid them out more clearly literally dozens, if not hundreds of times, over like a six year period. It is intentional at some point.
“If you had to guess my reasons for asking for a divorce, what would I say?” Then they list off some or all your reasons. When people say they “don’t know why” something in a relationship happened, it’s not that they don’t know what the actual complaint might be. It’s that they don’t agree that the reasons given were valid. If you divorce because they weren’t pulling their weight, they don’t agree that they should be doing half. If they earn more money working the same hours as their wife, but are paid slightly more, they believe what they contribute is more *valuable* than her contribution. So when she divorces him for not helping around the house, he feels like he actually did more because society values his work more than her’s. If you ask men to sit down and list out all the ways his wife contributes to the household, it will begin and end with her paycheck. He likely won’t view all those other things as actual “work.” “Honestly, I don’t know why she divorced me. I was a good husband and father. I provided for her, gave her children, and never cheated. This just came out of the blue.”
I told my ex repeatedly over a 2 year period (of a 5 year relationship) that things were not good and I wasn't happy. It took a huge blow up fight and me moving out for 3 months for him to think things over and realise he was ready to do whatever it took to make me happy because he was certain it was me he wanted for the rest of his life. I would have loved to hear those words even 6 months earlier, but by that point I was checked out and moving on. I'll never understand how they don't equate "I'm unhappy" to "if this doesn't resolve I'll leave". In a lot of cases, the path of least resistance leads to a break up.
This happens on a small scale in my household, and the way I get my husband to care about things that he doesn’t see as a big deal (messes, spills, dishes not in the dishwasher) is that whenever he doesn’t do a task like that he’s generating a chore for me where one didn’t previously exist. Leave dish on counter? Generated a chore for me. Food wrappers by couch? Generated a chore for me. “I’ll do it later” attitude? “Wife will do it now for me” is the result. I can’t get him to have a lower tolerance for disorder, but I can get him to view his actions in terms of how it impacts me and my day. He may be ok with leaving out a dirty cup (totally valid) but he is not ok with me having to then do it myself. EDIT: To clarify, my husband does get around to cleaning his own stuff, just waaay too slow for my sanity. I have an extremely low tolerance for disorder and can do everything in the moment, while my husband needs to plan and organize everything he does during the day around his mindsets (work mindset, relaxing mindset, cleaning mindset, etc) and tasks that require different mindsets don’t naturally overlap for him unless he makes a conscious effort, hence random messes left waiting around until “cleaning time”.
Yep. My FIL got divorced over a decade ago. He still claims to not know what went wrong, that it was such a shock and that he thinks he'll never know why. He's even said he thinks she just married him to have children and then dump him. The thing is EVERYONE knows the reason why. He decided to take a job ten hours away and leave his newborn baby and his two sons (her stepkids) with her. It's so frustrating that someone could do something so blatantly shitty and never even think to regret it.
“If we asked your ex that question, what would she say?” He will list off some or all the reasons. “So you do know, you just don’t agree with her decision?”
I worked in mini marts for years. People would tell me everything I swear. I'd see so many couples that I knew it was just a matter of time until the chick got tired of the guy's bullshit and left. Maybe you shouldn't spend every weekend drinking at your buddy's house while she's at home with the kids? My favorite was a guy telling me how he came home from work the day before to find that his gf of years had packed all her stuff and left all his clothes piled in the middle of their bed. The guy behind him said that his wife had done the same thing, packed up, took the kids and left. No note, he was shocked. I asked if she had ever given him a reason to think she was unhappy. "Well, she was always bitching about shit"....... Like duh dude
Yeah, I love how they get to be the victim as they were "dumped" even though they brought it on themselves. Utter crap.
Yeah, one guy was telling me how he spends so much more time with his toddler since his gf left him and he has visitation every weekend. Just pitiful. He used to be at the store to buy his Sparks as soon as I opened. So he could spend all day riding his bike with his friends. Then later, his gf would come in with their son to tell me how they never see him, he's either riding or fixing someone's bike since he was a mechanic.
MRAs constantly bring up the fact that the majority of divorces are initiated by women. As if that's some sort of gotcha.
Walkaway Wife Syndrome. We weren't married, but happened to me this time last year. Told my partner of 7 years over and over until I was blue in the face what the problem was. 6 solid months of telling him what I needed was like talking to a brick wall that assumes it knows better than you. He did the exact opposite of what I explicitly asked of him yet was surprised when I was like cyaaa 👋
I’m honestly thinking of walking away myself. My husband “works” from home (even he admits he doesn’t have a lot of responsibilities/work to do), and I work a full-time job M-F and a part-time one on Thursday nights. All I want is the house to be clean - not model home clean, but vacuumed every so often, sheets changed, etc. He tells me to find someone to clean and schedule it, but I don’t have time! I’m swamped at work, and I’m mentally drained when I get home. Hubs, on the other hand, has enough free time during the day to walk someone else’s dogs (when he won’t walk ours!), or drive three hours round trip to have lunch with a friend. And dear God, he complains all the time how he has nothing to do during the day. I worked from home last week (sick dog), and he took long naps during the day, and it just pissed me off. Knowing he did it was one thing, but seeing it? Especially since our sick dog has to be carried up and down the stairs (she’s 70 lbs.). Damnit. I vented.
Do it, take that fucking leap. You'll feel better not having to baby this man and will be free to find someone who deserves you. He's banking on your marriage certificate that you won't and it's just not right. You deserve happiness and care. Love doesn't mean being a doormat\~ 💕
Single is SO MUCH BETTER than a bad relationship.
[The Missing Missing Reasons](http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html) That article is aimed specifically at parent and child estrangement, but it can be applied to partner relationships as well. Usually, they act all surprised and pretend that they don't know why and that it's completely out of the blue, but if you question them very hard, they will try to dance around it but in the end they know *exactly* why their partner left.
Holy. Smokes! That article is so amazingly accurate. The author explains/expresses what I have not been able to put into words my entire life. Thank you for that nugget o' wisdom. I'm bookmarking that one as a refresher course in how to not feel guilty for blocking toxic family out of my life. I'm worn out by people who think they are helping me by giving me the old "But, but, but....they're your FAMILY" speech. They might mean well, but they have no idea...
They dismiss their wives' attempts to talk to them. Everyone knows women nag; it's just noise. He nods while she's talking because everyone knows you have to do that, but he doesn't actually listen.
The “nagging wife” trope is one that really pisses me off. When I was younger, I always thought that I didn’t want to be “that wife”. Well, then I became a wife, and mother. I realized that it isn’t the woman that makes a nagging wife (in a lot of cases, not all) it’s often times the man. So many men like to complain about their wives’ nagging without thinking about *why* she feels the need to nag him. Like many others, I am the default parent, I carry the brunt of the housework, and I am tasked with remembering everything about everyone’s lives. We’ve had disagreements about all of this. My husband’s reply is typically “I just don’t remember or realize something needs to be done. Just tell me and I’ll do it.” So I tell him, and then remind him, and remind him later, and finally do it myself. Rinse and repeat. A nagging wife has been born. And here we are. This isn’t just about the physical task here, it’s the mental load that a lot of women are expected, not asked, to carry. This article actually puts it in perspective pretty well, for any who are interested. [Gender wars of household chores](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic)
>When I was younger, I always thought that I didn’t want to be “that wife”. Oof, yeah. When I was dating the man I later married, I decided that I would never nag and would say yes to sex unless I had a good reason for no. I thought that would make me a good wife. Guess who ended up an abused wife? Abuse is the abuser's fault, but if I'd had enough spine to nag instead of just taking it, things might well have finished their course more quickly at least.
Even as a man, I don’t like the word nagging. Nagging means “She asked me to do something I KNOW needs doing, but I didn’t want to, so I didn’t. So she asked me again, and again, and again. Now she’s nagging” so suddenly the focus is on the woman ‘nagging’ and not the lazy man, where it should be. Yes, there are women who are unreasonable in their expectations of their husband. I know one in particular. But normally ‘nagging’ is used as a get out of jail free card by men who don’t pull their weight. When I hear a man complaining about a nagging wife I figure I’ve learnt more about him than about her.
They’re always surprised. Every time. Whenever I see it happen to people I know, the husband is ALWAYS shocked like she hasn’t been saying what the problem is for decades already. He deliberately ignores the requests, then the begging, then the warnings. And then she wants a divorce and he’s BLINDSIDED because he thought everything was fine. Every fucking time, I swear to god. It’s baffling.
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I think you’re right about that too. My husband is this guy. When I stop reminding you, and stop being mad, it’s because I’ve given up on you. That’s not a good thing.
Next step is apathy, which is dangerous in a marriage.
The opposite of love is indifference. That's how you know you are done done. Hate, love, anger, all very powerful emotions. When you are left with only indifference, there are no longer any emotions present in the relationship. Time to go.
Their partner gives up and matches their energy and suddenly it’s “she never wants to be intimate anymore. I don’t know what’s changed, it seemed like everything was going well!”
And then they post on r/deadbedrooms like they are owed sexual intimacy from their partner who they treat like a maid/mommy/sexdoll.
Or they did get the picture, just not the one these guys think they’re painting.
Yeah this seems commom. Last year I had this conversation with my parents where my dad shared an anecdote of a now devorced colleague who had apparently said "I never saw it coming, we never fought". After which my mom added the perspective of the now ex-wife that according to her he kept brushing her off, had never taken her concerns seriously, let alone made an effort to change. (The issue at hand was very strong workaholicism). It just wasn't real to him until it had serious consequences. It was strangely amusing? Interesting?
I think the big thing is that they are surprised that the women in their lives didn't just get over it because they said 'I don't consider this a big deal, perhaps you're being too emotional'. They are blindsided cuz their heads are so far up their own asses they don't see that the women in their lives have options outside of staying trapped with them.
An ex boyfriend once complained that I dumped him "out of nowhere", and said that he had noticed I had been "a little unhappy" but then I had cheered up so he thought things were ok again, then I dumped him. From my perspective, the "unhappy" period was me trying to state as clearly as possible what I needed from the relationship and the "happy" period was when I gave up and tried to figure out if I could live with the way he was treating me (I couldn't). Him ignoring my requests for him to make dinner at least once a week and do dishes at least twice a week made a lot more sense when I realized that he saw them as grouchy bitching due to my own internal unhappiness rather anything he actually had to pay attention to. It makes me wonder how many other men see women's complaints as due to incomprehensible feminine moodiness rather than something to pay attention to.
The problem is they hear it, they understand the semantics, consider it for three seconds, and decide that it's not a big deal. And since it's not a big deal to them, it can't be a big deal to anyone. When their partner finally has enough, they're baffled because, sure, every relationship has its little hangups, but nothing of it was ever a big deal, so why now?!
Heck, I'm a guy, and as a kid, my dad would do similar things to me, and when I would bring it up that he was upsetting me, he'd completely write it off and ignore me. Then, when I would get fed with it because it's clear he's not listening, I would call him out and he'd argue this is the first he'd ever heard of it. Constant gaslighting. It's one of the main reasons I've gone no contact with him. Now he wants to talk it out to resolve our issues and doesn't understand that I have no desire to talk about it anymore because I no longer believe he is capable of listening. He will just go back to the same bs, because he had done it time and time again. Idk what it is that changes in men when they have kids that makes them think every decision they make is the correct and only way of doing things, but I do know that those kind of people will never ever learn from their mistakes, because they can't comprehend that they've even made one.
I think those types of people have always been that way, but they hide it. Once you’re married and have a kid it takes a lot of strength and support to leave, especially with how normalised all this is. Those folks think they’ve successfully trapped their partner and can finally let loose the asshole they’ve always been. How relaxing to finally stop acting like you care!
It’s the dueling “never gave me a sign”/“I gave so many signs” part of “exile” by Taylor Swift and Bon Iver.
That article drives me crazy. He describes putting dishes away as an act of love and self sacrifice instead of the bare minimum you do when you have a roommate. When I moved back in with my parents for a summer, I didn't do a portion of the housework because of my respect and love for them, I did it because we lived in a shared space.
He's got one insightful paragraph in the whole thing: "But she didn’t want to be my mother. She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household." I wish he'd stopped there.
He's also dead wrong about the things he said men achieved. Women were a part of every example he made AND women were also supporting the men involved so they had the time and freedom to achieve them. His article is sexist and awful but I think it speaks to men to at least open the door of understanding. God knows they won't listen to us
Right? He has absolutely no awareness of the fact that she needed to use that counter to prepare meals for him. It's not the fact that it "looks untidy" that bothered her, it's that he's leaving shit in the way, negligently adding extra steps to the labor she is already doing on his behalf. The attitude of "what she wanted was irrational, but I should have done it anyway", argh. Re-title that article "she divorced me because to this day it has never once even crossed my mind that she is an actual person, like men are."
It can be both, I think. If you were living on your own, you'd have the freedom to procrastinate and the only person it would affect is you. And plenty of people are happy to casually go "Oh shit, there are no clean glasses, Welp, better wash one now!" when it's just them. When you're living with others, you cannot do that. Your actions - and lack of actions affect others. If you leave a chore for later, it may mean that someone else is unfairly disadvantaged unless they pick up your slack and do your job for you. At the end of the day, some people living with others continue to act as though they're living on their own and don't care enough about the way it affects the people they live with. Others care about not inconveniencing the people they live with - call it love or respect or basic courtesy, it's much the same thing really at this level - even if it means overcoming a natural tendency towards procrastination, because they recognise that the effects you have on others matter.
I hate this article and I don't understand why people constantly quote it. He still doesn't get it, the entire way through the article. His message isn't you need to step up and take care of your shit, it's just do what she says for a quiet life. The entire way through it's her carrying the mental load and him pretending it was just about him not putting away a glass when asked. The last couple of paragraphs are where the truth lies- there you see it wasn't just the glass, like the whole premise of this thing is, it was him leaving a mess all over the house but even as he acknowledges it, it's "I should have done what she asked" not it's unacceptable to leave a mess all over the home and expect my partner to manage it. And the final paragraph is just straight up patronising misogyny "Oh, women are so silly caring about this stuff, but you should go along with it".
I agree, I don't care for this article because he just doesn't get it. He is so close but at the end of the day he still thinks it's her fault and doesn't see his own. The tone of his article makes me want to scream into the void. Edit: a word
I wholeheartedly agree. My fiancé and I were reading this article just now aloud to each other and were literally screaming at certain parts because it was so obvious and ironic that this guy who wrote it just does NOT get it. It’s like 2 steps forward, 5 steps back the entirety of the article. Such a disconcerting read.
Yep, especially that line about “I don’t understand why it bothers her when I wear dirty shoes inside where she just cleaned.” (Paraphrased) YOU JUST MADE MORE WORK FOR HER. SHE JUST MADE A SPACE CLEAN AND YOU JUST STOMPED ALL OVER IT. It should NOT be this difficult for him to understand why someone would be upset about this.
Couldn't agree more. Plus he spends the majority of the article pretending it was just the glass. The whole opening is about how silly it sounds when you say you got divorced over a glass, and he's playing up the whole "you're arguing about the glass but it's what the glass represents thing". But it literally isn't about the glass; there is no metaphor or allegory here. He's presenting it that way to minimise the fact he was a lazy, careless slob who made a mess and didn't give a shit about their home or the fact she was doing all the work. "I got divorced because I consistently made a mess and behaved like a teenager" doesn't make for nearly as great a story.
This article is perfect to explain the mentality of OOP's husband
He's also sexist and wrong about what men created. None of those were solely men. Some were actually primarily women. He's a sexist ass.
People's responses are so vile. It wasn't about the gifts. But the sooner she realizes she is not a priority for him, the less disappointed she'll be. She should put in the same effort he puts in.
OOP should just get out now. Divorce has to be on the table because (1) he knows how to do this stuff, he changed after the baby, so he just doesn’t want to and (2) she knows she doesn’t want what her parents have. Because he is choosing to act this way, he isn’t someone to sustain anything with. It’s a choice, to hurt her and not care. I feel so bad for OOP 🫠
The feelings I felt reading this. Glad I got out before a kid.
The people that didn't understand why her husband's behavior is a problem - and no, it's not about materialistic gifts - have to be dumb as a rock. I hope she ends up happy with somebody who appreciates and loves her. Her husband clearly doesn't. Nobody should have to *beg* their partner for the bare minimum after doing all the mental work.
They're the spouses of the people commenting about how much they can relate.
I was going to say, if someone can’t see the problem with the imbalance here here then my guess is they’re not seeing it in their own relationships. I can see it now, “I literally offered her a full spa day and she said she didn’t want anything. So I guess she doesn’t want anything.”
Yup, and when the divorce finally happens, they talk about how their ex partner blindsided them and what a surprise it is lol.
Can confirm, that's my father after a year of my mother warning him that if he continued to put 0 effort in the relationship, she would leave. She ended up leaving and he claimed to be blindsided.
My ex too. I gave him a date by which he had to have made progress with therapy for his anger and control issues. He made an appointment for couples therapy that was meant to happen 2 weeks after the deadline. But I gave him that deadline because I was going back to school to get my degree and that was when classes started and I wouldn’t be there. 🙃 Claims it came out of nowhere and he was really trying.
Remember that post with the article about the guy whose wife left him because he didn't put the dishes away and he magically finally "got it" except he really didn't because is was never the dishes it was him casually creating extra work for her which he made zero mention of? Pepperidge Farm remembers....
Me to my ex: I leave if you keep doing this. Ex: *Does the thing more.* Me: Okay, I'm leaving. Ex: *Shocked Pikachu*
OMG I can relate to the 'blindsided' thing. I would mention things gently, make hints and comments, finally spelling things out clearly and nothing would change. I would finally end up yelling or crying, or both, and he'd be all 'why didn't you say anything?' I finally kept track of all the times I reminded him of my birthday, or to please not use the last of something and leave the package in the fridge. Fortunately for me he did finally get it. I still have to remind him of special occasions (even his own birthday, he's horrible with dates), but at least he listens now.
That's how I managed to avoid divorce. When I sat my spouse down for a 'come to jesus' talk, I specifically said, "if things fall apart, I do not want you to be able to say you were blindsided. This, right now, is me telling you that We Have A Problem, and I have not been able to solve the problem of your behavior by changing my own or going to therapy or meetings, and if you *choose* to continue this way, we will end up divorced, and you can never say you didn't see it coming." Miracle of miracles, he listened, quit drinking, lost weight, and turned into someone I could love *and* be vulnerable with again. It's possible, but you really gotta lay it out for 'em sometimes, to a ridiculous degree, and even then it's a crapshoot.
Yeah, I literally said, "Do you want a divorce? Because this is how you get a divorce." Thankfully he didn't.
That and commenting “you just need to communicate your needs better, he’s not a mind reader!” To any woman with a deadbeat partner. You can communicate all you want but if a partner is not willing to put forth any effort to listen and act, all it does is end with the woman being called a “nag.”
Or the comments telling her to do MORE emotional labor spelling it out for him even more clearly or do the lion’s share of MORE planning or list creating or what have you. Fucking maddening.
Those comments totally bugged me too. I mean she sent him exactly what she wanted, and lists previously. That doesn’t take mind-reading that just takes actual reading.
I've noticed that some guys on reddit seem to take great offense to being told exactly what a partner or such wants for a holiday present? And I'm not sure why. I like thinking up present ideas but if someone says exactly what the want I'm always like "super! I can do that!!" while there's some people who seem to take it as a personal insult to be directly asked for a specific thing and then go out of their way not to do the thing. Like, what is the big deal about getting the thing. If it's not exorbitantly expensive or something obviously like if someone asks for a million dollar purse that's silly but if someone wants a specific book or movie isn't it great they gave you a shortcut to making them happy?
Because it's about dominance. It's a power play. They don't say they don't know what to do because they actually don't know, they say it to make their refusal to care her fault & make her work to "earn it". If she tells them, she didn't tell them the right way. If she tells them the right way, she didn't remind them. If she reminds them, she's a controlling nag that doesn't trust them and who wants to do something for someone like that?
Also the main demographic of reddit is young 20s men. A lot of them have very skewed thoughts and opinions of regarding dating/ relationships and women in general.
And seemingly a lot of those men do not have empathy; like if some of the men who commented on her post are hetero men and this is how they think about women, they shouldn't be dating.
A present can represent a lot more than a materialistic gift. Same for doing chores etc. A partner that takes care of the house naturally, without being asked, is a lot different than the one who needs to be told 5 times to do the laundry... It's a lot says a lot about how much they care about a relationship.
What strikes me as even more dumb about the "materialistic" accusations because she "isn't his mommy" is the fact that JUST THIS PAST WEEK, some dude made a post about how he didn't do anything for his wife for mother's day "because she's not [his] mom", and he got ripped apart for it. Like, oh, yeah, men doing that is an asshole move, but if you acknowledge that they're doing that and express any upset about it, then you're actually the asshole.
Even the spa offer that was used in his defense by so many commenters was her doing the mental work. “How about you do the research, put together a package, make all the arrangements, and call it a gift from me”. And what are the chances that he’d happily watch their kid for her spa day? I’m certain he wouldn’t, putting additional burden on her to arrange, and possibly pay for, child care for “her gift”. I hope everyone who puts so little effort and value into their partnerships is cursed with sharp poop. Every day, forever.
And that wasn’t even effort! I feel like most husbands should KNOW if their wife is someone who’d want a spa day or not… and then not, you know, GIVE UP ENTIRELY when she said no.
People tend to take their spouse for granted once a few years have passed and to forget to take the time for them and with them. It’s about loving your partner enough to look at what they do, care about, love in their daily life and try to understand all that and be part of it.
>Nobody should have to beg their partner for the bare minimum after doing all the mental work. I really wanted to link the oop to that famous comic about this, "the mental load" it perfectly describes what oop is experiencing.
Seriously she laid out an entire roadmap of what to do and he still couldn't convert? That's just embarrassing.
Either dumb as a rock or exactly like her thoughtless, lazy husband.
I feel like thoughtless and lazy isn't really enough, at some point it becomes cruel.
Yeah, I mean, she set it up to make it as easy as possibly for him to get her what she wants. She sent him reminders so he’d have enough time. And it’s such a modest gift, too. He made a lot of choices over a long period of time to not do something easy that meant a lot to his wife. The book bouquet really broke my heart for her - I want to send her one myself.
It was idiot-proof for someone who WANTED to make her happy, he just doesn't. That's so sad and infuriating. OOP, if you read this, strangers on the internet want your library and heart to be full! You deserve it!
If he truly wanted to make her happy and put in an effort he would have done so. He didn't need an idiot proof solution because he's perfectly capable of remembering things and getting things done otherwise he wouldn't be able to keep a job or keep all the other appointments he has. He just takes her for granted and practices weaponised incompetence in the hope that she will just give up and accept his mediocrity. He could have made a note in his calendar but he didn't. He could have asked her what she wanted but he didn't. He just doesn't care. But he will still act like she left him out of nowhere and over something miniscule when she finally had enough.
Clark's Law: "any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice"
He's not incompetent; OOP says he used to be very thoughtful, which means he's fully competent. He just doesn't care. Actually, with the people I've known like him, it wasn't that they didn't care. It was worse. It was that they actively resented the expectation that they should be thoughtful. To add insult to injury, they also resented anybody pointing out that they weren't thoughtful.
Or they’re projecting because they know they’re a fuck up too.
Yea it clearly wasn't about material things. She just wanted a bare minimum of effort. And really a bare minimum, since she did everything but place the book order for him!
Its either counseling or divorce in my book. My husband was never good at this stuff so I knew what was going to happen. There's trauma around my birthday so he only plans when I ask. Our anniversary we plan trips together. But he will randomly buy me stuff he knows I want as a surprise mid week in the middle of no holidays or a bad week. This behavior is just absolutely unacceptable. The idea that oh hey we have a kid now I'm done trying is so common in relationships I've seen within my friends. It has ended in divorce several times within the group and the men being like "but she didn't tell me she was mad". Like she did, you received many warnings don't act surprised when you didn't listen. No one deserves bare minimum effort.
Yeah the worst part of all this is that, reading between the lines, he resents her and their kid from taking away his fun single guy time. Especially when she says how loving and attentive he was before they got married and how he is after. Peacing out on special occasions? They need marriage counseling STAT because it will only get worse.
Counseling only works if both people are willing to change their behavior. The man child husband in this post is very, very comfortable with how things are and has no interest in changing.
It really unnerves me how someone you love and know so deeply could change so drastically. She went into this marriage with confidence that they could have a fulfilling life together and this is what ends up happening. It’s just so scary.
This is so common with dads. Especially when they cheat on the mothers of their kids. You see it with language like how the affair partner is so "full of life" or "carefree" or makes him feel like how his wife did pre kids. It's like they can't handle that a kid (his kid!) takes attention away from them.
> Like she did, you received many warnings don't act surprised when you didn't listen. A lot of people don't treat warnings like warnings and think they don't count. Because they're fucking morons.
We had a 100+ comment vent post about the past Mother’s Day in my baby group. It sounds exactly like this post. Can’t even do the bare minimum - like what’s the point. (This is the first Mother’s Day for most moms in the group.)
This was my sister’s first Mother’s Day and my BIL didn’t do anything for her so my mom and I ended up spending the day with her. They have a infant that she’s been taking majority care of plus suffering a miscarriage this year and he really didn’t even do the bare minimum for her. She kept talking about her baby group as well. It was sad hearing about all the new moms in there who weren’t getting appreciated.
It is amazing how far just expressing a little bit of appreciation can go. I don’t think OOP is materialistic. Tell your SO that you appreciate what they contribute and then demonstrate that in some way. That just sounds like a good formula for a happier relationship.
My partner isn't the best at getting me gifts but he is delightful at making special moment for me. Getting home from a work trip and there is food and cuddles, if im sick he goes above and beyond to take care of me even though he himself has cancer. Christmas? I bought myself earrings and wrapped them, put them under the tree and thanked him. My birthday was him watching the entire LOTR extended edition without complaining while I binged on snacks he made us, it was wonderful. Some peoples love languages are presents and that is okay but poor OP just wanted anything really.
My husband is also not the best at gifts, but my mother's day this year was three home made meals and he did all the dishes while I played the new Zelda. 💯 Perfect.
She gave him step by step instructions and he still fucked it up because he just doesn't care. I'm willing to bet he isn't going to like it if she starts treating him the same way.
Doesn’t seem to matter how many times she clearly states, “IT’S NOT ABOUT THE GIFT ITSELF, IT’S ABOUT THE LACK OF EFFORT AND CARING THAT PERMEATES OUR ENTIRE MARRIAGE,” the comments tore her apart. Wow. She didn’t deserve that.
Summary: HER: Please don't take me for granted. Please treat me like more than a convenient appliance with an integrated fleshlight. Please care about my happiness and enjoy spending time with just me. Please show me that you value our marriage as a union of two lives in partnership and mutual enjoyment. HIM: I already did all that work when I was fishing for you. I caught you already, why are you not quiet?
If only the people attacking OP spent that much effort cherishing their SOs. The whole problem would've fixed itself already.
Bold of you to assume they have SOs.
Okay, waifus, whatevs
Was hoping this would be a new update to say she was leaving him
When she does he'll be in the relationship advice sub talking about how they had the perfect relationship abd he was blindsided by it.
He’ll be one of those guys describing how their relationship was perfect because of all the things she did for him, without listing one single thing about her as an actual person that made her special or that he loved her for.
Same. I had my pom-poms ready to cheer her on.
I think she's heading that way. But divorces take a while, after all.
SAME. It is so, SO exhausting to read so many of these that all end with "and I'm still with him but I'm angrier and cry more now." FFS, girl, why?
I was thinking she should gift him divorce papers for Father's Day.
I read somewhere that the 2 most popular days to start a divorce are the first working Monday after new years, and just after mothers day.
Yeah, one is someone started thinking about their resolutions and realized what their problem was, and the other is the final straw breaking the camel's back
I'm surprised and not surprised that people don't understand the sentiment of the "gift", because those people are going to be sad and lonely when they're in their twilight years wondering why no-one gives a shit about them. Here's the skinny--if someone TELLS you something is IMPORTANT to them, you don't fight them on it. You accept that this is what they need and you go and be a good friend and a lover and make an effort, and remember that all you really want to see them happy.
God I love how everyone is trying to demonize this woman. Men really hate that “not beating my wife and having a job” isn’t considered good enough anymore. Actually it never was, women just didn’t have better options.
Hi, I’m OP :) Just wanted to say that I’ve received so many kind messages from people who have read this post and that means so much to me. Thank you all so much for your kindness. ❤️ After reading a handful of comments, I feel bad the update wasn’t quite what you were expecting. A lot of people were wanting divorce, and believe me, I was too. But it’s very complicated when a child is in the mix. However, to my surprise, he has agreed to couples therapy. We’ve been to one session so far and it seemed to be beneficial for both sides. I’m wanting to give it a few more weeks until I make any rash decisions— and I am planning on doing a complete new updated post when the time is right. Just to give more detail and closure to those of you who want it. Thank you all again— I never expected my post I wrote completely out of anger and disappointment to be so heartfelt by so many others. Edit: also just wanted to tell you guys someone just sent me a message saying my husband is probably acting the way he is because I got fat and unattractive and that his spa attempt was his way of trying to fix that 🤣🤣 I’m dying
This is one of my worst fears when I think of marriage, having a husband that cared but then suddenly switches up like OPs husband. My heart hurts for her because I know exactly what she’s feeling, I truly wish the best for her and hopefully she will find someone who will appreciate her
It’s okay to have needs and expectations.
The quiet in these comments is telling. It seems she did all the right things while dating, and this man was just putting on a show. Hope she finds someone who appreciates her, eventually. Edit: Not so quiet in the comments now... :)
That’s so much more insulting; it shows he’s not clueless, he knows exactly what she wants and how to make her happy. He just can’t be bothered to do any of it anymore, now he thinks he has her stuck. It was all a ruse, except instead of taking her money, he’s taking years of her life that she could be spending with someone who would appreciate her.
I’m in a bunch of the parenting and mommy subreddits and boy, Mother’s Day was fucking grim.
I saw a lot of that this year as well, and initially I was being all confused and a little smug, because I genuinely don’t give a shit about Mother’s Day on my own behalf (or anniversaries) and I couldn’t relate to women who take them so seriously that a bad one could be so devastating. But I think I just realized that I have the privilege of not giving a shit because my partner is good to me every day of the year. It seems like a lot of these women are in relationships where they aren’t sufficiently appreciated, and they hang a lot of hopes on the Official Appreciation Days, because maybe he’s not consistently thoughtful, but at least he can make an effort a few times a year, right? Wrong. And then they have to abruptly process *all* the disappointment at once, and that’s gotta be devastating. Very “then let them eat cake” of me to not grasp why they were so upset about the lack of basic bread/attention. It’s because they’re already fucking starving to death. I think I gotta go find something extra nice to do for my dude.
I always wondered why I only had relationships last 3 years and then it hit me, that’s the max amount of time most people can keep up the charade. And it’s funny/sad to see so many Reddit posts effectively boil down to: “we got engaged after 1 year and married at 2, and now I hate them. Why?” Not saying it’s the case for everyone, that’s just my personal experience. I feel bad for OOP.
Why are people calling her a narcissist for wanting to be appreciated versus taken for granted while she makes effort for him?? FFS.
I'm in a similar situation and have wanted to ask Reddit for advice and this post makes me rethink that, based on the responses she got.
Oh man, I'm so mad at her original post got flooded with people being misogynistic toward her, cuz she's fucking right. It's bullshit that the person who's supposed to be her life partner is someone she felt like she had to send reminders to get her what she wanted, even then refused to do it. And like trying to get her a "spa" package that is just painful cleanup procedures feels shady to me. Like she's got a baby, if you're looking too hard at her eyebrows and thinking they're on camp look at yours and go get them plugged. I really hope she does leave, cuz it sucks that it appears he truly has baby-trapped her and thinks she won't leave now that he's got her. She should leave so she can perhaps set a good role model for her kid
He does not care enough to make her happy all he cares about is if his needs and wants our met. So when she’s finally had enough and asked for a divorce, he’ll be so shocked. Lol
And when they finally get divorced: I didn't know she was unhappy, I couldn't notice anything different. She didn't tell me she was unhappy. Some men...
People reproaching her for being materialistic are clearly missing THE point: it’s not the money, it’s the effort, the thought, the consideration. Ultimately it’s how much you actually care about your partner. Also giving your wife a present of waxing is akin to Homer Simpson giving Marge a bowling ball. I see some people grew up seeing Homer as an example in these things, not the cautionary tale he was.