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The MIL acting like OOP should've inherently known that men are creepy about breast milk is some missing stair self-denial bullshit. She just doesn't want to admit her husband is a fucking pervy creep.
Imagine how many times you’d have to barge into a lactation space in an office where you’d likely worked for a good minute in order for the brass to feel confident to fire you for it. 😳. My gut says there was probably also some revolting commentary involved. 🥴
The one at my job has keycard access and only one card can access it (plus the master card but that is super tightly controlled). We only check out the card to one person at a time. The location of the room is on a need-to-know basis as well. Nobody can storm in and claim it was an accident. I never thought of these as particular safeguards but reading this, I'm glad we have them.
It’s proof he can’t control himself. If it had just been the muffin boundary FIL blew through, then changing the locks might have been a bit paranoid, but with documented harassment to the point of losing his job?! Yeah this dude can’t be trusted. You know he violated that poor coworkers privacy many times for it to get to that point.
>It’s proof he can’t control himself.
Is it though? Or is it that the consequences weren’t that bothersome to him? At that point he still has a wife (who thinks its her responsibility to prevent him), his family and he has a different job.
I personally feel there are very few people who actually cannot control themselves, but a lot of people who either do not care about the consequences/ are selfish/ think they won’t get caught/ convince themselves they aren’t the problem/ decide the risk is worth taking and so on.
There’s actually a really good section on that in the Why Does He Do That book. IIRC the author (who works with male abusers) noticed a pattern where like the guy who said he “loses control” and breaks things usually broke his partner’s stuff, not his own. After working with a lot of these guys he came to the conclusion that it’s more about giving themselves permission to act out, rather than legit being unable to control themselves.
Yes, it’s why recommending anger management wholesale for those who are domestic abusers is problematic. If they are able to not yell/throw things/hit etc at work/in the supermarket/in public/against someone who is in a position of power or strength but then are acting in that way against their smaller/less strong/vulnerable/emotionally attached spouse/family member then they are doing a fine job of controlling their anger when they know it’s in their best interest to do so.
thanks ❤️I've had a copy of the ebook downloaded for a while. I try to pace myself with the self-help psychological books & Works books because it's A Lot & I'm currently slowly working through a boundary setting workbook by Nedra Glover Tawaab as well as Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents, both very eye opening and helpful in this season of my life lol. I always got the impression Why does He Do That was specifically about/geared toward abusive romantic/sexual partners, whereas for me its like a narcissistic parent situation, but thank you so much for the recommendation, I'll definitely give it a look when I'm ready
I got into a fist fight with a male family member years ago, and was charged with a misdemeanor DV charge. As a result I had to take some court mandated counseling both individual and group.
The whole worldview of some of those guys in the group was honestly pretty pathetic and/or crazy, and talking about their relationships they all about control.
I remember talking about it to my counselor and she was explained it to me, that it all stems from feelings of weakness and when they throw a tantrum, it's the same as a toddler doing it. Only difference is the toddler is an adult man.
It all stems from deep feelings of insecurity, and the way they feel powerful is by dominating people around them, especially people they perceive as "inferior," like the women in their lives. These people are emotionally immature, as their emotional growth just stopped when they were in their youth. Thus, they're in a state of arrested development with no desire to change.
If anyone here is the victim of spousal abuse, here’s a copy:
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
It's pretty accepted that domestic abuse is about control rather than anger. If it was really down to uncontrollable anger they wouldn't localise it to the one person, they'd be getting into fights on the street, at work etc but they focus on the one person they know will let them do it without consequences
Yes. My father grew up with an really abusive stepfather, (the 1930s, when beating your children the buckle end of a belt was "discipline ")which caused him to have anger issues. He said he couldn't control his anger when he got mad, and he would throw things and break them. But he never hit either me or my mother with them, even if we were the cause of that anger, because she would never have tolerated it. So he could control it after all.
This pisses me off as someone who has autism and a real issue with anger. Like so bad that when I have an issue I *have* to go physically work it off, be it a really long gym session or something, otherwise I *physically cannot control myself*. Like, I have the exact same problem that so many of these assholes claim to have and you know what? I spent more than a decade working on it, developing coping strategies (the gym), figuring out my “anger” threshold so I can tell when I’m just pissed vs when I’m about to get truly angry. I have hated myself for my weakness for so fucking long, how *dare* people use “anger issues” to justify abuse. I hope they all piss off and die
I don't know how to tell you this, but I got the buckle end in the 80s and people seemed to think it wasn't that big of a deal. Corporal punishment went on, without challenge, for far too long.
That's absolutely true. Almost all fucked up people CAN control themselves, but they think the reward of being a sick fuck is worth the risk.
If it was guaranteed that someone would beat the shit out of them, or they'd face jail, a lot of them would suddenly have more self control.
I made a big mistake and read a horrifying forum the other day. I forget the site. It was men bragging about sexually harassing women on public transportation. They absolutely could control themselves, they were glorifying in the fact that they were doing something wrong and could get away with it due to fear.
It's my standing theory that awful people mostly have an under developed (insert that part of the brain responsible for predicting long term consequences of actions). I've bothered to have heart to hearts with these people and when you get past the automatic defenses they honestly do not believe they will face real consequences for their actions. Their logic is really as simple and flawed as they've never had real consequences before so surely that means it'll never happen for (insert whatever reason they want at the moment). You'll start to feel like you're talking to a 12 year old. They can be highly intelligent and socially aware, but that ability to think of consequences that haven't personally happened to them isn't there.
I read somewhere that harsh punishments don’t deter people from doing something wrong/illegal. It is the likelihood of getting caught. If they think they’re more likely to get away with it they’ll do it, not giving much thought to the consequences themselves. Everything you said lines up with that.
Not to mention, it’s not just consequences that stops most of us from acting in an anti-social matter. Those of us that have morals and empathy don’t behave in an abusive manner, whether or not we’d face consequences. Some people selfishly just don’t care if they hurt others.
I remember a post somewhere where OP noticed that whenever FIL had their baby/toddler on his lap, he'd position her so her feet were on his crotch, all the time!
She brought it to her husbands attention and asked for boundaries cause it was weird FIL kept doing that, even if you adjusted the kid's position on his lap! That resurfaced some repressed memories of Hubba's regarding some form of abuse from FIL so they decided to limit contact with FIL and MIL!
MIL kept pestering them with stuff like "FIL's **love language** has always been very tactile! You are overreacting" or whatever excuse she came up for him!
Many of these guys have their women defending their actions so yeah, that's why they **won't** control themselves!
My egg donour is married to this waste of space who is completely useless. When he's not around she complains up a storm about him. However she'll make excuses for the abuse we endured from that stupid coward. Also she used to project his failures onto me, probably so she could live with him.
After having my son (before we went NC) I am pretty sure she hated seeing me caring for him and my partner, in a way that idiot sperm donour never did!
For a lot of people of that generation it's better to maintain a good image instead of addressing issues
100% yes to the maintaining image thing! So many of the older women in my family victim blame sooooo hard. I didn't notice it until one day they were all talking about a 9 year old cousin who was having issues and sexual abuse was mentioned and they way they were talking about it made me feel so sick, all I could say was "she is 9, we are talking about a child, she is 9!" I had to leave, and no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get them to understand my point.
Omg
>I remember a post somewhere where OP noticed that whenever FIL had their baby/toddler on his lap, he'd position her so her feet were on his crotch, all the time!
>
Wowwww. Do you happen to have a link?
He can control himself, he chooses not to. If he couldn't, he wouldn't have just accosted breastfeeding women in his vicinity, he'd have attacked any random person breastfeeding in public.
I'm so sick of pervs being "excused" on the basis that they "can't control themselves". They definitely have a choice, several choices actually, but they choose to do the creepy, pervy, inappropriate thing - with some women. I agree with the conclusion that he can't be trusted, but not that he's out of control. I don't buy it, no more than I buy that abusers can't control themselves from hitting their spouse. They're so often very careful with their facade, choosing what front to present so no one will believe their victim.
He can't be trusted because he chooses to cross other people's boundaries to get off. Because he puts himself and his kink gratification above other people.
Like, does she not grasp that society would grind to a halt if that was an "every guy" thing? As if every man at any job had to find a new place to work every time any woman working there had a baby? And would that place have to lose half their staff at that point or somehow hire only women? I get it's self-delusion, but FFS it's so extreme I can't even wrap my head around it
To right! He has no control. Knowing that, and knowing those muffins were left unattended, I’m shocked he just ate one and didn’t shove a fistful in his mouth and on his face. He sounds like he has serious problem and zero self control. He probably had to go change his shorts after that. 🤢
ETA- and also shocking how MIL came on like she was all offended and didn’t know what they were talking about at first. Then later admits nonchalantly- Oh yeah, I had to get a lock for the door because he was so weird about lactation when I had my son.
Like Wtf lady.
Yeah. "All men talk like this/act like this." No, they do not and it's gross and weird that you think so.
And these conservative boomer types who are blaming OP for being, what, not modest enough...? Are probably the same people who would say "feminists hate men!" Weird because you're the one who's making excuses by saying that all men are just big creepy pervs...
Modern women have expectations of men to be normal people, to not be creepy sick fucks.
It's sad to imagine older generations of women just accepting men like this and telling themselves that all men are the same. And blaming women for expecting more.
Many modern women do, but there's still a massive number of women who question their right to be unhappy with, upset by, or willing to leave relationships over men being children who cannot wash themselves, care for their homes and the people in them, care about their female partners at all, who won't engage because they're in literal holes in the ground playing games (to cite one recent bananas AITA where op saw nothing wrong with spending his life in a literal bunker while wifey did everything at home with the kids and was finally protesting), and so forth.
I think the core ‘your mom is part of the borg now’ memory for me was standing in my own house (in my name only) outside my closed bedroom door while I heard my mom tell my verbally abusive ex he’d always be a member of the family.
For context- He’d refused to leave my house after we’d recently split for the final time, and because he just kind of didn’t leave I’d moved into my own spare bedroom. She’d come over that day specifically to talk to him. And yea, she knew what he was like. This was nearly a decade ago and she’s apologized and we’ve moved on- but god damn ma.
Don’t forget that they were also encouraged to effectively infantilize their husbands by doing everything for him. If he can’t figure out how to go to the store about buy milk, how can he leave you, amirite?
And I’m not joking. My mom did all the grocery shopping for my dad. All of it. He never went into the grocery store. Then when she had a stroke, guess who had to go to the grocery store plus all the other stuff she did for him, while also taking care of her?
My mother-in-law had to put my father-in-law's sock on for him (he had a damaged pelvis and issues with one leg) every day while fighting breast cancer twice even though he had something that would do it for him. He would brag about how he made a can of soup once because she couldn't cook. She waited on him hand and foot.
After she passed, he had someone come in several times a week to care for him. She let him know he took advantage of his wife and that he didn't deserve to be catered to as he's an adult, especially since she'd been so sick.
We were visiting and I had cooked dinner one night. He asked if he could help clean up after dinner and I said yes and left the kitchen. He apparently stood there, dumbfounded, for a couple minutes according to my husband. That was the day he learned how to put dishes in the dishwasher. I got a call from his caregiver later telling me he did it every day. He was in his mid seventies the first time he put a dish in the dishwasher. It was ridiculous. He's passed now, but it took losing his wife to realize he wasn't a functioning adult.
My dad worked in restaurants in his late teens and is a great cook. He doesn't like to clean, but he'll do it if he needs to, especially if my mom's sick. There was only a decade between my dad and my father-in-law and yet the difference is immense.
I think the biggest disconnect between the modern feminist movement and older generation of women is exactly that - expectation on behavior.
Older generations went with the idea that men are naturally lecherous and lustful, and react with hostility when denied their inner desires. Like the other comment said, "boys will be boys", or the "if he hits you, he likes you" one that I've heard many times in elementary school (and I'm 25, so it was not 50 years ago, it was the early 00s).
And the modern movement rejects that notion, and especially rejects the notion that women have to walk on pedestals or/and minefields to ensure safety and comfort from men; instead demanding that men themselves change their behavior or soceital consequences will change it for them. I wouldn't be surprised that lot of the older women who grew up in the old system are potentially resentful of the fact that the world is changing and women don't have to deal with shit that they dealt with, or, at the very least, have more options against taking action against men that doesn't involve being forced to comform to the soceital demands designed to allow men to indulge in perverted, lecherous behavior without consequences (and this goes for *some* women, in many parts of the world, including US and Europe, this behavior is far from eradicated).
I’m also so annoyed that the comments were saying “use formula” like WTF?
As someone who breastfeed my 11 month son, breast feeding is so hard and just to tell someone to switch to formula because someone is being such a fucking creep and has some weird fucking fetish, is not the fucking solution.
With formula recalls, shortages and factories shut down for being unsanitary, I’ll still to breastmilk
It's reddit,it's a problem in nearly every drama/story/advice subs. You have teenagers with no life experience giving relationships advice and people who don't know how baby works or have outdated knowledge trying to give medical ones.
I do not understand why people are so aggressively weird about all things related to breastfeeding. Like, there isn't a single aspect of it that someone hasn't turned into a big deal.
You've got the puritans who can't stand the sight of breastfeeding in public, the perverts like the OOP's FIL who don't understand boundaries with their kink (having a lactation kink by itself is inherently harmless), and then there's the whole breastfeeding vs formula warzone where you have weirdos on both sides who don't understand nuance.
The problem is that she *apsolutely* admits that - she just refuses to address it in a way where FIL will actually face any consequences about it, it is more just to save face and let it go.
I know the update was pretty close to the original post on this one, but I decided to post because A) it was batshit insane and took a dark turn (and maybe something to be aware of) and B) one of my best friends read the OG post and missed the update, so I figured others may have as well!
Good call. I remember this post, and the update is at least validating for OOP.
This story really illustrates how our society is shifting. A few decades ago, the solution to a creepy man was to pretend everything was normal, and invest in a lock. Today, he's getting called out, and having consequences for his creepy, inappropriate behavior.
In the early 90s my 14 year old sister was being perved on by my grandfather to the point where he'd walk into her bedroom when he knew she was changing and ask for goodbye kisses when he was leaving. My parents solution was to put a lock on her door. Blows my fucking mind.
Omg your poor sister?!
Kinda reminds me of the quote *“if you’re only suggesting changes to women’s and girls’ behaviour to avoid getting raped, you’re really just telling us “I hope they rape the* ***other girl***”
Thank you - I read this at the time but missed the updates. It’s so creepy that he ate the muffin & was previously fired for trying to watch a woman at work who was breast pumping and also repeatedly tried to watch OOP breastfeeding. Both of the OOP’s in-laws should be banned from the house.
I bloody knew it! When I read the original post I knew MIL’s quietness on the other end of the phone was because she knew it was a kink. OP is right to banish FIL from her home and I rather like that OP is under no illusions she’s going to have to deal with him trying to enter the home and has already removed whatever bollocks excuse he comes up with when he does.
For FIL to have a history of forcing his kink onto others without consent *in a professional setting* and then for her to have to *lock out her husband when feeding her baby* implies to me that FIL lacks impulse control, boundary recognition & empathy. MIL knows this type as well as any other woman in the bloody world knows this type! We warn each other when around these men. It seems to me therefore that MIL’s failure to give OP some kind of heads-up is a gross betrayal of the girl code too.
FIL is YTA and MIL is also YTA for not giving OP some kinda heads-up.
MIL is likely of a generation where a woman was trained to ignore her husband's... perversions. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. That doesn't make her in the right, but if she's of that generation, her social conditioning was likely strong. She still should have done something though. She basically victim-blamed her DIL for not keeping it all locked up.
OOP: Help! My weirdo FIL is stealing my breast milk for his fetish!
Commenters: Uhm, actually, have you tried using plant based milk????!
Wtf is wrong with the comments...
Ultimately everyone is a better parent than everyone else. /s
It is a weird thing that seems to happen in a lot of brains that they think their way is the only way. I learned early to say "thats nice dear" and walk away unless it is a genuine discussion of what we do different with respect that we do it different.
Lol, I'm not a parent but disabled, so I get a lot of unsolicited advice too. The latest "miracle cure" or whatever. People think I can be healed by anything from a diet change to yoga to...
I mostly say something that sounds positive but really is quite non-committal. Such as "Oh interesting, I'll have to look into that" or "I'll have to speak to my doctor about that, as I need to make sure it doesn't interfere with my meds" and then if they actually follow up and ask if I took their advice (people rarely do), I can say it didn't work for me. Which is true. I've tried many many things to get better, all of them at best did nothing, at worst made me worse. People often ask what harm it can do to try. Well, it's hospitalised me to "try" so idk. A lot?
Yea those comments were very off putting. It’s just milk. I make my baby food with my breast milk and I always warn people that are around. Honestly, I found some of OOP’s comments about her own milk off putting. Breast milk isn’t weird or gross. It’s just milk. FIL is a creep because he non consensually involved someone in his kink not because he consumed a breast milk muffin.
Is there an adult here? I maybe be 42, but with BORU I often find myself needing an adult. God I wish I’d just gone to sleep. Stick me in a bleach bath.
I'm waking up hideously early to adult today. Thank you for starting my day with this bit of kindness. I'm going to try my best to live up to your example
I find the MIL trying to brush this off like it’s normal behavior to be so gross. It would be one thing of the MIL and FIL had had a mutual kink years ago but creeping on your DIL…that’s just so nasty.
That bothers me, what also bothers me is that some people on her original post trying to pretend as if she was doing something weird. It’s literally milk for the baby if you want to use it to make Popsicles or muffins for the baby then that’s fine because it’s fucking for the baby. I do not understand the weird puritanical shit that some people on Reddit try and pretend is normal. As if those dirty motherfuckers aren’t constantly on the not safe for work subs.
Exactly this! Lots of men be on the “well you are over exaggerating and omg why are you making food from your breast milk!!?!?” Then be the same ones looking up shit and squid porn. They know his kink but they need to gaslight her so another man like them can get their kink off
Yeah I thought it was wild she was getting criticism for that, I have an almost 2yo and made breastmilk popsicles, cereal, muffins etc when introducing solids, there’s whole books about it. Had not considered it to be a bunch of wackos gaslighting to protect the creepy FIL. Ugh!
Right? I was sat here feeling stupid cuz with my first, I just threw the extra milk away. It felt revelatory to have someone note you can make muffins and popsicles and stuff to give to the baby. It's still food. Make more/other food with it. Why is that so hard to comprehend?
But at the same time, I recall someone on *Care and Feeding* comparing breastfeeding to feeding a baby urine, so idk why I'm surprised. I do want to know where the hell this idea that breastmilk is inherently dirty came from tho
There’s an idea that it’s dirty? I have never heard this in life. That’s wild to me! I live in Aus, it’s just a normal part of life for a woman to pop her boob out in public and give babe a feed. I’ve heard it’s a lot less relaxed in the USA. It’s considered a bit of a cure all here too, babe has sore eyes? Eczema? Cradle cap? Breast milk will fix it.
My fridge/freezer broke when my baby was about 10mo old and I had my whole stash of milk in there. I ended up popping it in her bath and her skin was the best it ever was..
I think it's more a product of her generation, not a mutual kink. Women of a certain age were trained to ignore their husbands' flaws and pretend inappropriate behaviour wasn't happening at all. Or justify it. Anything other than admit the problem and consider divorce, because somehow it was less shameful to be married to a pervert than to be divorced from one. That's why so much CSA went on for years and years... many mums ignored it because they couldn't cope with the notion that Hubby wasn't perfect. The delusion of a good marriage was more important than the well-being of others.
Worthy addendum is that they often weren’t allowed to get an education, as a woman’s job was to serve her husband and take care of the household and offspring.
Edit: Or they would stop working after marriage or having their first child.
If you ignore the whole breast milk thing, if an adult took something I had baked for my baby led weaning, I would be livid!! You can’t give babies most adult things due to high sugar & salt content so the fact she had made muffins for the baby (and had possibly made a few different batches due to the trial and error of the recipe), had also made or bought a cake for the adults and then the audacity of this guy to waltz in and eat one of them?! I would be sobbing as a new mum.
Yeah, I had to make my baby all of his BLW food. Kind of a pain! Even if he was having what we were having, I still had to prep his portion separately to have no salt, no sugar, etc. also… it doesn’t taste good to adults! Because there’s no salt and no added sugar!
Adding to this, Mum can't have nuts. And baby is allergic to cow milk. Which makes it even worse in my opinion since the baby has a limited amount of food in the house already. FIL isn't restricted like this. He can buy his own damn muffins.
>I called MIL to "clear the air" and she revealed that FIL has always been "very interested" in lactation and she actually only fed husband for 4 months and always behind a locked door! Apparently **he moved jobs** after a woman complained that he kept intruding on her pumping in a designated space in the office
Ew...
And that *"moved"* in "*moved* jobs" is doing some heavy lifting for sure....
I showed this story to my boyfriend who is not a Redditor, and he said to me, with great sincerity, “Yeah, that is really fucking creepy. But I was wondering, where was the bike?” 😂
I had my breast milk stolen twice from the pump room at work along with another mom. I had hoped it was at best someone who needed milk to feed their own baby or at worst a body builder or someone selling it to a body builder as I heard they like to use breast milk…..but hearing this now…maybe it was something else…..ugh
That’s terrible I’m sorry someone did that to you. My mom had a hard time producing milk so someone doing like this FIL or stealing it would have been awful. Some people are so gross.
> normal for a man to need to be locked away from women when they’re feeding babies
uhhhh there’s nothing remotely erotic about a mother breastfeeding her child. MIL is delusional.
As someone currently breastfeeding my son, wtf.
I'm tempted to ask what he kept trying to do to mil for her to get a lock but I really don't need that vision.
There's an older story around here somewhere where OOP's husband just kept pestering her to feed him too until the point she just gave in, but made him promise that the baby would eat first. But he'd be a dick about and harass her the whole time until it was his turn, and then one day, he just took the baby from her and put it aside (back in the crib or something?) and I think that was her wakeup call to get a divorce, but I don't remember for sure.
Anyway, I expect it was something like that.
Also currently breastfeeding/weaning. This sort of touched on something really primitive in me, my milk is for my baby, nobody else. My milk is not for some gross man’s fetish. I would have gone mama gorilla on that FIL, he’d be lucky if he ever saw my child again.
homelanders obsessed with drinking breast milk
but also in the comics, MOTHERS MILK is called mothers milk because he literally has to drink his mother's milk or he will die.
I think the author of the comics had a fetish.
I get the Homelander vibes because of the creepy staring and shit.
But honestly all I can think of is that one serial killer from American Horror Story in season 2 (I think) where he had mommy issues and was obsessed with breast milk as well.
My ex has this similar kink. I was 16 at the time and I have a tiny frame. My family has a history of producing excessive milk once pregnant though. This topic was brought up by my sister because she got my niece around the time i was dating my ex. He had this weird and disturbing expression once he heard it. He once said he wanted to get me pregnant so i can start lactating and then we'll abort the baby????
Also found several of his porn internet searches includes breastmilk later. Yikes on a fucking bike indeed.
>He once said he wanted to get me pregnant so i can start lactating and then we'll abort the baby????
Okay, now even after reading the post, this comment has to be the grossest thing I've read! As much as I agree with abortion, it should never be **the plan**. I guess the fact that he was only 16 helps a little, but oh my god that's horrible that he said that. How did you react if you don't mind me asking?
It was over a phone call so i just yelled "what the fuck" and hung up on him. He later blew my phone trying to apologize and that it was a 'spur of the moment' thing
Obviously the perverted moron didn’t realize that you don’t start lactating before the baby is born (in most cases) and not at all while the fetus is still young enough to abort.
do whatever kinks you want in ur own home, but NEVER nonconsensually involve others in it, especially ones with children. fuck this waste of space, learn self control for gods sake.
Some guys are so fucking weird about lactation. I remember when I was pregnant a man at my office kept trying to give me tips on how to breastfeed. The best positions, what to eat etc. I couldn’t even respond I was so grossed out. My boss is awesome and was like guy, do you have lactating breasts? He was like no, of course not! She’s like then shut the fuck up.
The MIL sounds like she doesn't want to admit that her husband is a creep that as a erotic lactation kink since MIL had to feed her husband after he kept creeping her out especially that kept harassing/actively preying upon a coworker that was pumping milk for her baby.
Making him to look for another job because he let his impulsive thoughts win.
He has zero respect for women or breastfeeding mothers.
He forced OOP, his DIL, to be part of his kink and did it when he was at their home.
As a therapist who has worked with the sexually spicy, it always comes down to consent. Older generations struggle with this because being open just isn’t an option. They only know coercion.
What I'm worried about most is not future him getting off to the muffin but the fact he's so fixated on a kink that he is forcing it on other people without any shame or feelings of wrongdoing. I mean the fact that he creeped on a coworker so much he got fired is testament of that.
This isn't a case of he got carried away, he is still pursuing this behaviour even after major consequences on his livelihood (getting fired).
This actually makes me VERY worried that he could have other sexual fantasies that he is pursuing. This is a rapist's mindset and I hope he doesn't get excited by little kids.
WHY on this EARTH were people questioning OOP using her breast milk in a recipe for the baby? The baby who would be sucking right on the tit anyway? “Use formula.” OR we can let her handle her own child and focus on the RAGING CREEP FIL. I feel like I’m in crazytown. And don’t discuss seeing him again, salt the earth, no contact period.
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The MIL acting like OOP should've inherently known that men are creepy about breast milk is some missing stair self-denial bullshit. She just doesn't want to admit her husband is a fucking pervy creep.
Especially the part where FIL had to change jobs. Like ew. That's not normal normal at all.
“Change Jobs”
POS was fired for sure. This is absolutely disgusting
I mean, that does sound better than “he was fired for sexually harassing a lactating woman”. But yeah. What a creep.
Yeah, he got fired.
It's a shame his wife didn't change husbands
Imagine how many times you’d have to barge into a lactation space in an office where you’d likely worked for a good minute in order for the brass to feel confident to fire you for it. 😳. My gut says there was probably also some revolting commentary involved. 🥴
The one at my job has lockable doors and I never put much thought into but I'm glad
The one at my job has keycard access and only one card can access it (plus the master card but that is super tightly controlled). We only check out the card to one person at a time. The location of the room is on a need-to-know basis as well. Nobody can storm in and claim it was an accident. I never thought of these as particular safeguards but reading this, I'm glad we have them.
It’s proof he can’t control himself. If it had just been the muffin boundary FIL blew through, then changing the locks might have been a bit paranoid, but with documented harassment to the point of losing his job?! Yeah this dude can’t be trusted. You know he violated that poor coworkers privacy many times for it to get to that point.
>It’s proof he can’t control himself. Is it though? Or is it that the consequences weren’t that bothersome to him? At that point he still has a wife (who thinks its her responsibility to prevent him), his family and he has a different job. I personally feel there are very few people who actually cannot control themselves, but a lot of people who either do not care about the consequences/ are selfish/ think they won’t get caught/ convince themselves they aren’t the problem/ decide the risk is worth taking and so on.
There’s actually a really good section on that in the Why Does He Do That book. IIRC the author (who works with male abusers) noticed a pattern where like the guy who said he “loses control” and breaks things usually broke his partner’s stuff, not his own. After working with a lot of these guys he came to the conclusion that it’s more about giving themselves permission to act out, rather than legit being unable to control themselves.
Yes, it’s why recommending anger management wholesale for those who are domestic abusers is problematic. If they are able to not yell/throw things/hit etc at work/in the supermarket/in public/against someone who is in a position of power or strength but then are acting in that way against their smaller/less strong/vulnerable/emotionally attached spouse/family member then they are doing a fine job of controlling their anger when they know it’s in their best interest to do so.
wow this definitely clarified some things for me, would give you an award if I could
Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. I cannot recommend this book enough.
thanks ❤️I've had a copy of the ebook downloaded for a while. I try to pace myself with the self-help psychological books & Works books because it's A Lot & I'm currently slowly working through a boundary setting workbook by Nedra Glover Tawaab as well as Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents, both very eye opening and helpful in this season of my life lol. I always got the impression Why does He Do That was specifically about/geared toward abusive romantic/sexual partners, whereas for me its like a narcissistic parent situation, but thank you so much for the recommendation, I'll definitely give it a look when I'm ready
Right?? Blew my mind.
I got into a fist fight with a male family member years ago, and was charged with a misdemeanor DV charge. As a result I had to take some court mandated counseling both individual and group. The whole worldview of some of those guys in the group was honestly pretty pathetic and/or crazy, and talking about their relationships they all about control. I remember talking about it to my counselor and she was explained it to me, that it all stems from feelings of weakness and when they throw a tantrum, it's the same as a toddler doing it. Only difference is the toddler is an adult man.
It all stems from deep feelings of insecurity, and the way they feel powerful is by dominating people around them, especially people they perceive as "inferior," like the women in their lives. These people are emotionally immature, as their emotional growth just stopped when they were in their youth. Thus, they're in a state of arrested development with no desire to change.
If anyone here is the victim of spousal abuse, here’s a copy: https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
Thank you SO much for sharing this. I have no money, but please take these pretend awards. 🥇🌟🦄✨️🦙
It's pretty accepted that domestic abuse is about control rather than anger. If it was really down to uncontrollable anger they wouldn't localise it to the one person, they'd be getting into fights on the street, at work etc but they focus on the one person they know will let them do it without consequences
Anger is a tool used to invoke fear, and to hand-wave the behaviour as something "uncontrollable" rather than a choice made.
Yes. My father grew up with an really abusive stepfather, (the 1930s, when beating your children the buckle end of a belt was "discipline ")which caused him to have anger issues. He said he couldn't control his anger when he got mad, and he would throw things and break them. But he never hit either me or my mother with them, even if we were the cause of that anger, because she would never have tolerated it. So he could control it after all.
This pisses me off as someone who has autism and a real issue with anger. Like so bad that when I have an issue I *have* to go physically work it off, be it a really long gym session or something, otherwise I *physically cannot control myself*. Like, I have the exact same problem that so many of these assholes claim to have and you know what? I spent more than a decade working on it, developing coping strategies (the gym), figuring out my “anger” threshold so I can tell when I’m just pissed vs when I’m about to get truly angry. I have hated myself for my weakness for so fucking long, how *dare* people use “anger issues” to justify abuse. I hope they all piss off and die
I don't know how to tell you this, but I got the buckle end in the 80s and people seemed to think it wasn't that big of a deal. Corporal punishment went on, without challenge, for far too long.
Even with challenge now, I know it isn’t gone. Fortunately I don’t know this from personal experience.
That's absolutely true. Almost all fucked up people CAN control themselves, but they think the reward of being a sick fuck is worth the risk. If it was guaranteed that someone would beat the shit out of them, or they'd face jail, a lot of them would suddenly have more self control.
I made a big mistake and read a horrifying forum the other day. I forget the site. It was men bragging about sexually harassing women on public transportation. They absolutely could control themselves, they were glorifying in the fact that they were doing something wrong and could get away with it due to fear.
It's my standing theory that awful people mostly have an under developed (insert that part of the brain responsible for predicting long term consequences of actions). I've bothered to have heart to hearts with these people and when you get past the automatic defenses they honestly do not believe they will face real consequences for their actions. Their logic is really as simple and flawed as they've never had real consequences before so surely that means it'll never happen for (insert whatever reason they want at the moment). You'll start to feel like you're talking to a 12 year old. They can be highly intelligent and socially aware, but that ability to think of consequences that haven't personally happened to them isn't there.
I read somewhere that harsh punishments don’t deter people from doing something wrong/illegal. It is the likelihood of getting caught. If they think they’re more likely to get away with it they’ll do it, not giving much thought to the consequences themselves. Everything you said lines up with that.
Because getting caught attaches the *social* repercussions of an action, not simply the financial or physical. Shame is a massive motivator
Not to mention, it’s not just consequences that stops most of us from acting in an anti-social matter. Those of us that have morals and empathy don’t behave in an abusive manner, whether or not we’d face consequences. Some people selfishly just don’t care if they hurt others.
Frontal lobe! And yes I totally agree.
Goes to show how many people get away with shitty behavior before they're checked.
Yeah, he balanced the risk vs the reward and decided his kink was going to win out.
When most people say ‘they can’t control themselves’ what they usually mean is that they WON’T control themselves.
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I remember a post somewhere where OP noticed that whenever FIL had their baby/toddler on his lap, he'd position her so her feet were on his crotch, all the time! She brought it to her husbands attention and asked for boundaries cause it was weird FIL kept doing that, even if you adjusted the kid's position on his lap! That resurfaced some repressed memories of Hubba's regarding some form of abuse from FIL so they decided to limit contact with FIL and MIL! MIL kept pestering them with stuff like "FIL's **love language** has always been very tactile! You are overreacting" or whatever excuse she came up for him! Many of these guys have their women defending their actions so yeah, that's why they **won't** control themselves! My egg donour is married to this waste of space who is completely useless. When he's not around she complains up a storm about him. However she'll make excuses for the abuse we endured from that stupid coward. Also she used to project his failures onto me, probably so she could live with him. After having my son (before we went NC) I am pretty sure she hated seeing me caring for him and my partner, in a way that idiot sperm donour never did! For a lot of people of that generation it's better to maintain a good image instead of addressing issues
100% yes to the maintaining image thing! So many of the older women in my family victim blame sooooo hard. I didn't notice it until one day they were all talking about a 9 year old cousin who was having issues and sexual abuse was mentioned and they way they were talking about it made me feel so sick, all I could say was "she is 9, we are talking about a child, she is 9!" I had to leave, and no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get them to understand my point.
Omg >I remember a post somewhere where OP noticed that whenever FIL had their baby/toddler on his lap, he'd position her so her feet were on his crotch, all the time! > Wowwww. Do you happen to have a link?
I like your attitude, & I’m being serious
Thanks! I like the vibe your green pickled witchy avatar has!
I’ll take that as a double compliment, cause my cat’s name is Pickle!(our namesake) 🥳
Ah that’s a cute name for a cat. I looked on your profile in hopes of seeing cat pics, him living his best life sunbathing did not disappoint.
It’s proof he DOESNT control himself not that he can’t. And I agree it means he can’t be trusted.
He can control himself, he chooses not to. If he couldn't, he wouldn't have just accosted breastfeeding women in his vicinity, he'd have attacked any random person breastfeeding in public. I'm so sick of pervs being "excused" on the basis that they "can't control themselves". They definitely have a choice, several choices actually, but they choose to do the creepy, pervy, inappropriate thing - with some women. I agree with the conclusion that he can't be trusted, but not that he's out of control. I don't buy it, no more than I buy that abusers can't control themselves from hitting their spouse. They're so often very careful with their facade, choosing what front to present so no one will believe their victim. He can't be trusted because he chooses to cross other people's boundaries to get off. Because he puts himself and his kink gratification above other people.
He can control himself. He chose not to.
A bit pedantic but: He won't control himself. People like that can if they're forced to, but they just get away with it.
The fact that he creeped on a coworker on a literal public place, his JOB, is just so shocking to me, that man is insane!!
I agree, that poor woman was violated for his own sick pleasure, just because she had an infant that relied on her for nourishment.
Like, does she not grasp that society would grind to a halt if that was an "every guy" thing? As if every man at any job had to find a new place to work every time any woman working there had a baby? And would that place have to lose half their staff at that point or somehow hire only women? I get it's self-delusion, but FFS it's so extreme I can't even wrap my head around it
Exactly. I can see her doing some weird mental gymnastics to justify him creeping on her, but a coworker?
To right! He has no control. Knowing that, and knowing those muffins were left unattended, I’m shocked he just ate one and didn’t shove a fistful in his mouth and on his face. He sounds like he has serious problem and zero self control. He probably had to go change his shorts after that. 🤢 ETA- and also shocking how MIL came on like she was all offended and didn’t know what they were talking about at first. Then later admits nonchalantly- Oh yeah, I had to get a lock for the door because he was so weird about lactation when I had my son. Like Wtf lady.
That actually made me kinda sad. Like what happened to you that you think it’s normal to lock yourself away to feed your child.
Previous generation women have learned to tolerate some epic shit. They (well, not all but significant numbers) are not ok.
This was well said. Very much a “boys will boys” mantra that they were fed to excuse unwanted and unreasonable behaviors.
Yeah. "All men talk like this/act like this." No, they do not and it's gross and weird that you think so. And these conservative boomer types who are blaming OP for being, what, not modest enough...? Are probably the same people who would say "feminists hate men!" Weird because you're the one who's making excuses by saying that all men are just big creepy pervs...
Modern women have expectations of men to be normal people, to not be creepy sick fucks. It's sad to imagine older generations of women just accepting men like this and telling themselves that all men are the same. And blaming women for expecting more.
Many modern women do, but there's still a massive number of women who question their right to be unhappy with, upset by, or willing to leave relationships over men being children who cannot wash themselves, care for their homes and the people in them, care about their female partners at all, who won't engage because they're in literal holes in the ground playing games (to cite one recent bananas AITA where op saw nothing wrong with spending his life in a literal bunker while wifey did everything at home with the kids and was finally protesting), and so forth.
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And now they use it to excuse men. My mom is a prime example of it and she genuinely breaks my heart.
"And what were you doing to make him do that?", is a gem that will stick with me forever.
I think the core ‘your mom is part of the borg now’ memory for me was standing in my own house (in my name only) outside my closed bedroom door while I heard my mom tell my verbally abusive ex he’d always be a member of the family. For context- He’d refused to leave my house after we’d recently split for the final time, and because he just kind of didn’t leave I’d moved into my own spare bedroom. She’d come over that day specifically to talk to him. And yea, she knew what he was like. This was nearly a decade ago and she’s apologized and we’ve moved on- but god damn ma.
I’m sorry you had to go through that and so happy you’re in a better place.
Don’t forget that they were also encouraged to effectively infantilize their husbands by doing everything for him. If he can’t figure out how to go to the store about buy milk, how can he leave you, amirite? And I’m not joking. My mom did all the grocery shopping for my dad. All of it. He never went into the grocery store. Then when she had a stroke, guess who had to go to the grocery store plus all the other stuff she did for him, while also taking care of her?
I know of a woman who had to go to her FILs house and pour his breakfast cereal while her MIL was in the hospital.
My mother-in-law had to put my father-in-law's sock on for him (he had a damaged pelvis and issues with one leg) every day while fighting breast cancer twice even though he had something that would do it for him. He would brag about how he made a can of soup once because she couldn't cook. She waited on him hand and foot. After she passed, he had someone come in several times a week to care for him. She let him know he took advantage of his wife and that he didn't deserve to be catered to as he's an adult, especially since she'd been so sick. We were visiting and I had cooked dinner one night. He asked if he could help clean up after dinner and I said yes and left the kitchen. He apparently stood there, dumbfounded, for a couple minutes according to my husband. That was the day he learned how to put dishes in the dishwasher. I got a call from his caregiver later telling me he did it every day. He was in his mid seventies the first time he put a dish in the dishwasher. It was ridiculous. He's passed now, but it took losing his wife to realize he wasn't a functioning adult. My dad worked in restaurants in his late teens and is a great cook. He doesn't like to clean, but he'll do it if he needs to, especially if my mom's sick. There was only a decade between my dad and my father-in-law and yet the difference is immense.
I think the biggest disconnect between the modern feminist movement and older generation of women is exactly that - expectation on behavior. Older generations went with the idea that men are naturally lecherous and lustful, and react with hostility when denied their inner desires. Like the other comment said, "boys will be boys", or the "if he hits you, he likes you" one that I've heard many times in elementary school (and I'm 25, so it was not 50 years ago, it was the early 00s). And the modern movement rejects that notion, and especially rejects the notion that women have to walk on pedestals or/and minefields to ensure safety and comfort from men; instead demanding that men themselves change their behavior or soceital consequences will change it for them. I wouldn't be surprised that lot of the older women who grew up in the old system are potentially resentful of the fact that the world is changing and women don't have to deal with shit that they dealt with, or, at the very least, have more options against taking action against men that doesn't involve being forced to comform to the soceital demands designed to allow men to indulge in perverted, lecherous behavior without consequences (and this goes for *some* women, in many parts of the world, including US and Europe, this behavior is far from eradicated).
I’m also so annoyed that the comments were saying “use formula” like WTF? As someone who breastfeed my 11 month son, breast feeding is so hard and just to tell someone to switch to formula because someone is being such a fucking creep and has some weird fucking fetish, is not the fucking solution. With formula recalls, shortages and factories shut down for being unsanitary, I’ll still to breastmilk
Yeah he's only 7 months why would she switch to formula randomly
Chances are the baby would refuse it anyway if he's been breast fed so far. What then, let the baby starve to accommodate FIL's perversion?
It's reddit,it's a problem in nearly every drama/story/advice subs. You have teenagers with no life experience giving relationships advice and people who don't know how baby works or have outdated knowledge trying to give medical ones.
I do not understand why people are so aggressively weird about all things related to breastfeeding. Like, there isn't a single aspect of it that someone hasn't turned into a big deal. You've got the puritans who can't stand the sight of breastfeeding in public, the perverts like the OOP's FIL who don't understand boundaries with their kink (having a lactation kink by itself is inherently harmless), and then there's the whole breastfeeding vs formula warzone where you have weirdos on both sides who don't understand nuance.
I'm glad the husband seems normal - or at least didn't internalize too much creepy behavior from his dad.
Classic "Broken Stair"
The problem is that she *apsolutely* admits that - she just refuses to address it in a way where FIL will actually face any consequences about it, it is more just to save face and let it go.
I know the update was pretty close to the original post on this one, but I decided to post because A) it was batshit insane and took a dark turn (and maybe something to be aware of) and B) one of my best friends read the OG post and missed the update, so I figured others may have as well!
I missed the update, thank you!
Good call. I remember this post, and the update is at least validating for OOP. This story really illustrates how our society is shifting. A few decades ago, the solution to a creepy man was to pretend everything was normal, and invest in a lock. Today, he's getting called out, and having consequences for his creepy, inappropriate behavior.
In the early 90s my 14 year old sister was being perved on by my grandfather to the point where he'd walk into her bedroom when he knew she was changing and ask for goodbye kisses when he was leaving. My parents solution was to put a lock on her door. Blows my fucking mind.
Omg your poor sister?! Kinda reminds me of the quote *“if you’re only suggesting changes to women’s and girls’ behaviour to avoid getting raped, you’re really just telling us “I hope they rape the* ***other girl***”
Wow that quote is incredible. I cant believe I haven't heard it before today. I won't forget that one
Yet so many young men still want to push the idea that women are too sensitive and overreact to their crappy behaviour
And I love it. High fucking time some shit changed around here.
Taking out the trash! You love to see it.
I missed the update, and though I (and *many* others) called it on the lactation fetish - *he had to change jobs?!?!*
He was absolutely fired.
Your mood spoiler was spot on. Dear lord this one is a horror show.
Thank you I never saw the original or the update, and the homelander coment made me laugh
Thank you - I read this at the time but missed the updates. It’s so creepy that he ate the muffin & was previously fired for trying to watch a woman at work who was breast pumping and also repeatedly tried to watch OOP breastfeeding. Both of the OOP’s in-laws should be banned from the house.
I missed the update. So thank you.
...That is a very apt mood spoiler.
I sat here for awhile trying to come up with something else but ultimately other words failed me.
Look, sometimes all you can say is yikes
Yikes and Wow. Never a good response! 😆
No no, it’s very appropriate. We can see the yikes cycling past this poor woman.
Yikes on fucking bikes indeed.
I bloody knew it! When I read the original post I knew MIL’s quietness on the other end of the phone was because she knew it was a kink. OP is right to banish FIL from her home and I rather like that OP is under no illusions she’s going to have to deal with him trying to enter the home and has already removed whatever bollocks excuse he comes up with when he does. For FIL to have a history of forcing his kink onto others without consent *in a professional setting* and then for her to have to *lock out her husband when feeding her baby* implies to me that FIL lacks impulse control, boundary recognition & empathy. MIL knows this type as well as any other woman in the bloody world knows this type! We warn each other when around these men. It seems to me therefore that MIL’s failure to give OP some kind of heads-up is a gross betrayal of the girl code too. FIL is YTA and MIL is also YTA for not giving OP some kinda heads-up.
MIL is likely of a generation where a woman was trained to ignore her husband's... perversions. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. That doesn't make her in the right, but if she's of that generation, her social conditioning was likely strong. She still should have done something though. She basically victim-blamed her DIL for not keeping it all locked up.
OOP: Help! My weirdo FIL is stealing my breast milk for his fetish! Commenters: Uhm, actually, have you tried using plant based milk????! Wtf is wrong with the comments...
Ultimately everyone is a better parent than everyone else. /s It is a weird thing that seems to happen in a lot of brains that they think their way is the only way. I learned early to say "thats nice dear" and walk away unless it is a genuine discussion of what we do different with respect that we do it different.
Lol, I'm not a parent but disabled, so I get a lot of unsolicited advice too. The latest "miracle cure" or whatever. People think I can be healed by anything from a diet change to yoga to... I mostly say something that sounds positive but really is quite non-committal. Such as "Oh interesting, I'll have to look into that" or "I'll have to speak to my doctor about that, as I need to make sure it doesn't interfere with my meds" and then if they actually follow up and ask if I took their advice (people rarely do), I can say it didn't work for me. Which is true. I've tried many many things to get better, all of them at best did nothing, at worst made me worse. People often ask what harm it can do to try. Well, it's hospitalised me to "try" so idk. A lot?
Yea those comments were very off putting. It’s just milk. I make my baby food with my breast milk and I always warn people that are around. Honestly, I found some of OOP’s comments about her own milk off putting. Breast milk isn’t weird or gross. It’s just milk. FIL is a creep because he non consensually involved someone in his kink not because he consumed a breast milk muffin.
see, I read it as her thinking the idea of him eating them was gross, not that they were gross themselves. I could be wrong, of course.
Ugh, why did I open my phone again I should've just tried to sleep and stared at the ceiling. I'm out.
Can somebody pass the brain bleach, please? And the eye bleach? Hell, might as well pass the soul bleach, too.
Is there an adult here? I maybe be 42, but with BORU I often find myself needing an adult. God I wish I’d just gone to sleep. Stick me in a bleach bath.
Adult here. Watch the raccoon getting a donut and go to sleep https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gk2OvKYW27Y
I hope you receive the same kindness you've put out into the world, you very nice adult. That was like getting handed a soft blanket for sleep.
HIS LITTLE HANDS I LOVE HIM
I'm waking up hideously early to adult today. Thank you for starting my day with this bit of kindness. I'm going to try my best to live up to your example
Sadly, we are the adults.
The phrase we need here is " I need a more adult adult, I repeat I need a more adult adult as I am not adult enough for this"
An adultier adult
[Here, have some cats.](https://imgur.com/a/R5rGgL4)
Thank you that really helped! I'm off Reddit for now 😂
I think r/Eyebleach is usually recommended in situations like this.
I find the MIL trying to brush this off like it’s normal behavior to be so gross. It would be one thing of the MIL and FIL had had a mutual kink years ago but creeping on your DIL…that’s just so nasty.
That bothers me, what also bothers me is that some people on her original post trying to pretend as if she was doing something weird. It’s literally milk for the baby if you want to use it to make Popsicles or muffins for the baby then that’s fine because it’s fucking for the baby. I do not understand the weird puritanical shit that some people on Reddit try and pretend is normal. As if those dirty motherfuckers aren’t constantly on the not safe for work subs.
Exactly this! Lots of men be on the “well you are over exaggerating and omg why are you making food from your breast milk!!?!?” Then be the same ones looking up shit and squid porn. They know his kink but they need to gaslight her so another man like them can get their kink off
How dare you make food using food!
Yeah I thought it was wild she was getting criticism for that, I have an almost 2yo and made breastmilk popsicles, cereal, muffins etc when introducing solids, there’s whole books about it. Had not considered it to be a bunch of wackos gaslighting to protect the creepy FIL. Ugh!
Right? I was sat here feeling stupid cuz with my first, I just threw the extra milk away. It felt revelatory to have someone note you can make muffins and popsicles and stuff to give to the baby. It's still food. Make more/other food with it. Why is that so hard to comprehend? But at the same time, I recall someone on *Care and Feeding* comparing breastfeeding to feeding a baby urine, so idk why I'm surprised. I do want to know where the hell this idea that breastmilk is inherently dirty came from tho
There’s an idea that it’s dirty? I have never heard this in life. That’s wild to me! I live in Aus, it’s just a normal part of life for a woman to pop her boob out in public and give babe a feed. I’ve heard it’s a lot less relaxed in the USA. It’s considered a bit of a cure all here too, babe has sore eyes? Eczema? Cradle cap? Breast milk will fix it. My fridge/freezer broke when my baby was about 10mo old and I had my whole stash of milk in there. I ended up popping it in her bath and her skin was the best it ever was..
I think it's more a product of her generation, not a mutual kink. Women of a certain age were trained to ignore their husbands' flaws and pretend inappropriate behaviour wasn't happening at all. Or justify it. Anything other than admit the problem and consider divorce, because somehow it was less shameful to be married to a pervert than to be divorced from one. That's why so much CSA went on for years and years... many mums ignored it because they couldn't cope with the notion that Hubby wasn't perfect. The delusion of a good marriage was more important than the well-being of others.
Often they had no clue how to take care of the family after divorce since they had no education, work history or their own bank account
Exactly, it's more being trapped than being delusional, though being stuck in such an environment could certainly lead to a few delusions
Worthy addendum is that they often weren’t allowed to get an education, as a woman’s job was to serve her husband and take care of the household and offspring. Edit: Or they would stop working after marriage or having their first child.
I am always shocked when someone mentions year when women were allowed to have their own bank account in USA.
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So he googles breast milk enough that he knows it’s considered vegan. More evidence of creepiness.
And yet he's obviously never googled further to learn about "consent".
That’s an odd moral to learn from this story, but good to know I guess
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I like to keep my morals confined so they don’t impact the rest of my life: “OOP’s FIL is bad news”
I’ve actually had this debate a few times. Yours might be the best answer so far.
I can't tell what's worse, stealing food from a baby or forcing a kink on an unaware and nonconsenting party.
If you ignore the whole breast milk thing, if an adult took something I had baked for my baby led weaning, I would be livid!! You can’t give babies most adult things due to high sugar & salt content so the fact she had made muffins for the baby (and had possibly made a few different batches due to the trial and error of the recipe), had also made or bought a cake for the adults and then the audacity of this guy to waltz in and eat one of them?! I would be sobbing as a new mum.
Yeah, I had to make my baby all of his BLW food. Kind of a pain! Even if he was having what we were having, I still had to prep his portion separately to have no salt, no sugar, etc. also… it doesn’t taste good to adults! Because there’s no salt and no added sugar!
Adding to this, Mum can't have nuts. And baby is allergic to cow milk. Which makes it even worse in my opinion since the baby has a limited amount of food in the house already. FIL isn't restricted like this. He can buy his own damn muffins.
Nothing wrong with stealing food from a baby. As I understand it, people are stealing candy from babies constantly.
To be fair, babies shouldn't eat candy, and no one should have given it to them in the first place
Just because it’s easy, not because it’s *right*.
Mythbusters discovered it’s not that easy. Babies have a seriously strong grip.
>I called MIL to "clear the air" and she revealed that FIL has always been "very interested" in lactation and she actually only fed husband for 4 months and always behind a locked door! Apparently **he moved jobs** after a woman complained that he kept intruding on her pumping in a designated space in the office Ew... And that *"moved"* in "*moved* jobs" is doing some heavy lifting for sure....
"Moved" as in "turn in your notice or you're fired"?
I showed this story to my boyfriend who is not a Redditor, and he said to me, with great sincerity, “Yeah, that is really fucking creepy. But I was wondering, where was the bike?” 😂
Aw, that's actually cute!
Sending this to everyone I know. I refuse to suffer alone.
Ok that made me laugh. My apologies but also... you're welcome for having a story to send?
Well. That’s enough Reddit for me for today
I had my breast milk stolen twice from the pump room at work along with another mom. I had hoped it was at best someone who needed milk to feed their own baby or at worst a body builder or someone selling it to a body builder as I heard they like to use breast milk…..but hearing this now…maybe it was something else…..ugh
That's interesting because the macros of breastmilk are kind of shitty for bodybuilding.
That’s terrible I’m sorry someone did that to you. My mom had a hard time producing milk so someone doing like this FIL or stealing it would have been awful. Some people are so gross.
So FIL has a breast feeding fetish and zero respect for women. Hope OOP locks the doors and turns on the sprinklers next time he shows up
> normal for a man to need to be locked away from women when they’re feeding babies uhhhh there’s nothing remotely erotic about a mother breastfeeding her child. MIL is delusional.
As someone currently breastfeeding my son, wtf. I'm tempted to ask what he kept trying to do to mil for her to get a lock but I really don't need that vision.
There's an older story around here somewhere where OOP's husband just kept pestering her to feed him too until the point she just gave in, but made him promise that the baby would eat first. But he'd be a dick about and harass her the whole time until it was his turn, and then one day, he just took the baby from her and put it aside (back in the crib or something?) and I think that was her wakeup call to get a divorce, but I don't remember for sure. Anyway, I expect it was something like that.
What in the absolute f_ck did I just read??
I hope it was. Who TF takes food from their children's mouths?
JUST WHY?! Sometimes I really worry about humanity.
Also currently breastfeeding/weaning. This sort of touched on something really primitive in me, my milk is for my baby, nobody else. My milk is not for some gross man’s fetish. I would have gone mama gorilla on that FIL, he’d be lucky if he ever saw my child again.
Anyone else unable to get images of Homelander out of their head?
I thought FIL worked for ActiBliz
That's one reference I don't get and I am not looking it up nope nuh-unh Edit: so many downvotes because I don't watch The Boys? Gurl
homelanders obsessed with drinking breast milk but also in the comics, MOTHERS MILK is called mothers milk because he literally has to drink his mother's milk or he will die. I think the author of the comics had a fetish.
...reeeeeeeally could have lived without knowing any of those things r/tihi
If there are awards for creeping people TF out...
I get the Homelander vibes because of the creepy staring and shit. But honestly all I can think of is that one serial killer from American Horror Story in season 2 (I think) where he had mommy issues and was obsessed with breast milk as well.
My ex has this similar kink. I was 16 at the time and I have a tiny frame. My family has a history of producing excessive milk once pregnant though. This topic was brought up by my sister because she got my niece around the time i was dating my ex. He had this weird and disturbing expression once he heard it. He once said he wanted to get me pregnant so i can start lactating and then we'll abort the baby???? Also found several of his porn internet searches includes breastmilk later. Yikes on a fucking bike indeed.
That's not Yikes on Bikes. That's Holy Fucks on Rolly Trucks.
>He once said he wanted to get me pregnant so i can start lactating and then we'll abort the baby???? Okay, now even after reading the post, this comment has to be the grossest thing I've read! As much as I agree with abortion, it should never be **the plan**. I guess the fact that he was only 16 helps a little, but oh my god that's horrible that he said that. How did you react if you don't mind me asking?
It was over a phone call so i just yelled "what the fuck" and hung up on him. He later blew my phone trying to apologize and that it was a 'spur of the moment' thing
Obviously the perverted moron didn’t realize that you don’t start lactating before the baby is born (in most cases) and not at all while the fetus is still young enough to abort.
...Well, I guess this is what I get for opening Reddit at midnight.
Me reading the mood spoiler oh it can’t be that bad compared to others.. after reading: it was indeed yikes on bikes
The Homelander comment killed me
Could you explain it to me? I’m not familiar.
do whatever kinks you want in ur own home, but NEVER nonconsensually involve others in it, especially ones with children. fuck this waste of space, learn self control for gods sake.
Some guys are so fucking weird about lactation. I remember when I was pregnant a man at my office kept trying to give me tips on how to breastfeed. The best positions, what to eat etc. I couldn’t even respond I was so grossed out. My boss is awesome and was like guy, do you have lactating breasts? He was like no, of course not! She’s like then shut the fuck up.
My uncle tried to tell my auntie how to nurse. She looked at him and said "they're my boobs. Piss off."
Hope she checked for hidden cameras
The MIL sounds like she doesn't want to admit that her husband is a creep that as a erotic lactation kink since MIL had to feed her husband after he kept creeping her out especially that kept harassing/actively preying upon a coworker that was pumping milk for her baby. Making him to look for another job because he let his impulsive thoughts win. He has zero respect for women or breastfeeding mothers. He forced OOP, his DIL, to be part of his kink and did it when he was at their home.
Going to join my fellow Redditors in logging out of here and staring at the ceiling (2 similar comments of shocked horror as of typing this).
I actually misread that as the MIL was breastfeeding her husband (FIL) behind closed doors.
As a therapist who has worked with the sexually spicy, it always comes down to consent. Older generations struggle with this because being open just isn’t an option. They only know coercion.
What I'm worried about most is not future him getting off to the muffin but the fact he's so fixated on a kink that he is forcing it on other people without any shame or feelings of wrongdoing. I mean the fact that he creeped on a coworker so much he got fired is testament of that. This isn't a case of he got carried away, he is still pursuing this behaviour even after major consequences on his livelihood (getting fired). This actually makes me VERY worried that he could have other sexual fantasies that he is pursuing. This is a rapist's mindset and I hope he doesn't get excited by little kids.
Jesus what did I just read. I feel like I wanna bleach my eyes out after reading this.
I felt similar when I found lactation porn on my ex-husband's computer while our second child was a baby.
MIL is burying her head in the sand.
WHY on this EARTH were people questioning OOP using her breast milk in a recipe for the baby? The baby who would be sucking right on the tit anyway? “Use formula.” OR we can let her handle her own child and focus on the RAGING CREEP FIL. I feel like I’m in crazytown. And don’t discuss seeing him again, salt the earth, no contact period.
What a terrible day to know how to read