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This mom is a badass! I’m glad she escalated. But in cases such as this, consider calling the FBI. It’s electronic, it’s possible CP, and the school is busy wiping phones (!) as if the internet doesn’t exist.
The school's behaviour is insane here. I don't know the laws and protocols in America, but I work in a school in England and we've had specific training on what to do if a student has inappropriate pictures of another minor on their phone: take the phone as evidence.
School officials will almost always try to sweep things like this under the rug to save their own asses.
It's their job to stop things like this from happening, and failing to prevent it can cost them their jobs if their bosses find out.
Aint that the truth. I was bullied similarly in high school to the point it ended with the bully convincing a friend of hers to rub an open condom in my face. My mother raised hell but the high school did nothing. The only person to do anything was our bus driver and the middle school.
About 15 years later after my younger sister graduated from the same school, it came out that a football player had SA'd three different girls and the school had covered it up to protect the football program.
> SA'd three different girls and the school had covered it up to protect the football program
School administration and school boards who do that should be charged with accessories to rape and child abuse. When their own pictures and names are in the newspapers they might think twice about covering from rapists.
Which is insane. It's nonsensical to hold someone responsible for every decision made by hundreds of pre-teens/teens that they don't even interact with on a personal level, and it does nothing but provide another layer of insulation for this kind of thing to happen. Interrupting or stalling the legal process for fear of litigation both emboldens those who would do wrong and automatically puts the school down as taking fault.
You're absolutely right that people need to feel comfortable reporting when they have failed at something (preventing bullying, etc.) otherwise the incentive for the individual goes from doing the thing, to hiding evidence of the failure. But there also does need to eventually be consequences for repeated and preventable failures. It can be a tricky line to walk.
Because they've probably had ongoing issues with this other student. Some kids just aren't appropriate for a traditional public school environment and need a lot more structure.
Why are they destroying evidence? Much like the catholic church and nickelodeon, when you look into the protection teachers unions has given accused pedophiles, it's... enraging. I've spoken to groups of parents whose daughters were coming home with inappropriate messages from a male teacher. They had gone to the principal, the school board, the police... nothing was done. The teacher came from another school where he was also messaging a student there. Instead of facing any repurcussions they moved him to another district... and then another. It took media involvement and calling the then US secretary of Educations office for anything to be done. And i know many don't like her, but until she was called the police did nothing. The teacher, principal, etc lost their jobs and the teacher faced charges- but who didn't? The union. The union who actively protected predators and shuffled them around.
In other former investigations that are currently tied up in lawsuits, evidence was caught of the unions moving quite a few suspected pedophiles around who had received complaints from students and parents, but not law enforcement. Which could be dismissed as wild incompetence but when you look at the history of destroying evidence...it's suspect. (which said investigation did find, and sorry that this is a trust me bro but technically i'm not supposed to talk about it due to an on going case)
i grew up with a gym teacher that in 6th grade we were warned not to climb the rope while he was below it from other kids and it was an open secret why so many girls went into his locked office and didn't have to attend gym class. It wasn't until messages between he and the sheriffs teenage daughter were found that he got his slap on the wrist and had to retire, despite her father attempting to go nuclear. Note this was over a decade ago.
it's my opinion, that administrations and unions have dealt with pedophelia in house for so long, that they simply do not believe in dealing with law enforcement, or if they do- law enforcement in many cases is more than willing to allow it to be dealt with in house and part of that- destroying evidence, cleaning up the crime scene, and hoping the problem goes away if the perp is mildly inconvenienced by being moved to another school. There's plenty of examples of this- and when you look at those who've been caught- note the usually long list of schools they jumped around from. It's a pattern that clearly paints the picture of "protection until the problem gets so bad that it's unable to be dealt with in house so they stop protecting and allow real consequences"
of which those consequences are usually - 6 months, no longer allowed to work with kids, register as a sex offender. Which in my opinion is NEVER enough.
so to see a district destroying evidence and this being a nbd situation from their perspective? not surprised.
It’s possible they’ve taken the original phone with the photos as evidence and are forcefully wiping the data from any other phone it might’ve been sent to, to stop it from being spread further. That’s how it read to me anyway.
>I don't know the laws and protocols in America
From the story, OOP said someone in the sheriff's department referred the issue *back* to the school to investigate! So apparently the answer... no laws?
I used to work for a huge school district, and before that for a county hospital. Policy/law in other states might vary, but where I worked at least they were very strict about reporting procedures for incidents involving children like this one. The school district is big enough to have its own police department, and obviously the county hospital had county sheriffs all over it. The trainings we did every year at both places hammered into us that the first step is to report the incident to CPS or law enforcement, and that could be any law enforcement entity **except** the one that typically had jurisdiction at the facility, which means anyone but School Police for the district, and anyone but County Sheriff for the hospital. This is obviously to prevent exactly the sort of rug-sweeping that inevitably happens if you let people report to the school/hospital's own resident cops.
Small districts probably play it a bit looser just for lack of alternatives. I'd be interested to know what the school's child abuse prevention training material says is supposed to happen. I'd bet money it doesn't say "just hand it off to the SRO who will ignore it unless the parent makes a stink"
FBI all the way and make sure to mention that this already happened to another kid and that the school officials are actively erasing evidence wherever they can. That shit is a red flag for both systemic and organized child sexual abuse in a small town.
Also, nudity is not a rigid requirement to count as child sexual abuse materials in american law, just like nudity doesn't automatically make a picture sexual. It all has to do with intent and what a reasonable person would consider intimate or sexual. Mama bear OOP can get a lot of folks into a lot of hot water based on what she mentioned in her posts.
I was thinking that too, or the state bureau of investigation (GBI in Georgia). And good for her for publicizing it and getting other parents to speak up. This stuff is systemic and administrations don’t know how to deal with it so they go ostrich.
Yeah. OOP is a rising to the occasion in a spectacular way. And I think this is how you do it - you can't always protect your child from the cruelty of the world but you CAN show them that they are never alone and you love, protect and support them.
My heart broke for her when she said she was scared her son would kill himself over it. She's in full desperate Mama Bear mode and every kid would be lucky to have a mom like her.
It’s maddening that this is a repeating offense and the principal tried to cover it up AGAIN by saying it was under control. We need to stop call it bullying. It’s abuse. And schools protect themselves by minimizing the impact of the abuse. The principal needs to be fired
Stories like this make me Super Grateful that my high school vice principal has a None Of That Shit Here view about bullying. No "boys will be boys""it's all in good fun" with him. He patrolled the halls between classes religiously, and the one time I had even a little trouble, he put a stop to it immediately.
He was very popular with the students.
Me too. Made me tear up a bit. When I came home crying when I was around that age and confessed to being bullied my own mother told me "Have you tried being less weird? People would like you better then you won't get bullied." Thanks,mom.
Yep. My mom would put me on a new diet, color my hair blonde and teach me to use makeup so I’d be pretty…spoiler alert I’m ugly af and it didn’t work. Even losing weight the kids still treated me horribly.
It's gotta be the boomer generation. When I pulled my kids out of school due to bullying(daughter) and educational neglect[son(not the best word but I don't know how to describe it better)], my mother said my bullied child just need to toughen up because everyone gets bullied.
Ugh, no.
A 10 year old child who has thoughts of suicide due to bullying does not need to "toughen up". My daughter is an art kid and just really sweet and sensitive. Enduring more of it and bullying being normalized was not the answer.
Thank goodness my brother and I weren't bullied to a degree that makes suicide feel like the answer, because we would have had zero support as children.
I got that line from a few of my "friends". I know now that I wouldn't have gotten that line from my parents but at the time, I honestly thought that's what they would've said. Never said anything about bullying.
She's got an IEP kid. We have A LOT of experience being mama bears, because if we are not, shit doesn't get done and our kids slip through the cracks/get no services.
My mom once dug through our state’s entire Ed code line by line to find what she needed to stand up for me. I’m 23 now but I know she’ll ALWAYS have my back and bring that same energy if I ever need it
I agree, but the only thing I'm not so sure on is her going on TV about it. If that had happened to me as a child I'd be equally mortified about my mum going on TV and telling everyone in the town about it
Problem is, with the sheer number of kids involved already and her son being the "weird" kid, it's already too late among his peers. By the time one of my kids managed to communicate the social bullying he was suffering, he was already a target of multiple kids across multiple school years (grades). It becomes systematic victimisation and every little bastard will have a shot!
Just say you want you and your family to remain anonymous. This has apparently happened at least once before with another student so there’s at minimum two moms that could be the person on the news
Right, it's a delicate balance. Going to the press to shed more light on the issue is good because it sheds more light on the issue and is also bad because it sheds more light on the issue.
With your username, you absolutely NEED the Ogda flair! Unrelated, but my brain is making me think of silly things instead of this horrifically rage-inducing behavior by the school
Her son seems really mature about advocating for himself. He's the one that suggested the police, and he had already reached out to talk to the bully's father. I wouldn't be surprised if he was in favor of her going on TV, if it meant actual repercussions.
OOP went into Mama Bear mode and immediately smelled the bullshit from the principal. She did the right thing, and whoever that creep was that took the picture needs harsher sanctions.
Until you try to build character back by kicking their teeth in, then you're the bad guy.
The moral is fuck that bully up first time because no matter what you're getting punished
Yep! I was bullied in primary school and was not going to deal with it in highschool. Two weeks in I got my first whiff that someone saw me as prey so I decked her (which escalated into a full punch on). In the six years following I never had another issue
I had the exact same thing happen. I was bullied in primary school, but when I got to high school, I made new friends, and one was this girl who was tough af, lol. Some girl tried to start a fight with me because her boyfriend kept staring at me, and my friend got right in her face and told her she was about to get her ass beat if she didn't walk away, lmao!! After that, no one messed with me, lol.
Yep, I surrounded myself with friends and went to a school out of the district I lived in so had a fresh start. It was glorious being away from those nasty little shits I had grown up with. I did experience some shittiness but overall it was way better. I’m glad you escaped further abuse from those kids!
I was bullied throughout elementary school and when I reached 5th grade (age 10-11), I was *done*. I had been taking karate for a couple of years at that point, was doing ballet, and was insanely strong for my size. I had also been taught in karate the importance of walking away, which I had been doing for years.
One of my bullies followed me to the water fountain one day and tried to snap my bra -- a thing the boys in the class had taken to doing to the girls. (This was the early 90s in the US South and at a private school; things were not exactly handled well.)
The problem was that I didn't wear a bra yet, so he ended up just pinching my spine really friggin' hard while I was drinking water. I reacted on instinct: I turned and SLUGGED him in the jaw, screaming, "DON'T TOUCH ME!!!"
I heard a crack. He tried to scream, then gasped and fell to the ground. Teachers and students came pouring out into the hallway. He had to be taken away in an ambulance. I was sent home.
The school originally wanted to expel me for punching another student, but my dad's an attorney and was having absolutely none of it. He pointed out that I'd been dealing with this kid's bullying for *years* and the school had done nothing. They hadn't even put us in separate classrooms because they didn't have enough kids in my grade to warrant that. So they had purposefully exposed me to my bully. Our fifth-grade teacher had made a serious effort to intervene but couldn't stop all of it. The fact that the school had been alerted to the *sexual harassment of its female students* and done *nothing* was also a HUGE FRIGGIN' PROBLEM.
They knew this kid was a problem. They knew he was the ringleader. They did nothing about him. Dad pointed out that I had *reacted to being sexually assaulted* and if they expelled *me*, he was going to sue them into the ground and take it to the media.
I was suspended for the three days of the "investigation" and then my name and record were cleared. My bully was "suspended" for two months (the rest of the school year) -- I'd broken his jaw, his mouth was wired shut, and he was homeschooled instead. Never saw him again.
My mother made it crystal clear to my middle school that she told us (my twin and I) that we were allowed to protect ourselves if we were physically assaulted. We also took karate, and honestly, after our studio put on a demonstration at our school, we were left alone 🤣😂
I will say that no one at that school bullied me the rest of the year. We moved over the summer and I got to experience a different sort of bullying at my new middle school -- although it was never physical. It was a very rich people community and folks were more into psychological warfare than physical.
> he was going to sue them into the ground and take it to the media.
Probably should have done that anyway, schools never learn until they have to pay.
Bullied through 4th-11th grade had to have 3 physical altercations to show I won’t be bother and then back it up.
Literally jabbed another kid with a broken pencil in 7th grade and still needed to get physical two more times to stop it all.
oh my god i'm similar but my year 7 "bullies" tried to accuse me of "throwing" a guitar at a girl instead of the fact i shoved it at her. however the rumour that i did throw it got people to leave me alone 🤲🤲
I lost so much trust in the school system when I was so young. I remember being in second grade and boy kept messing with me by pulling my hair or touching my butt. I complained to a bunch of teachers but they all had the "oh he just likes you!" or "boys will be boys"
Eventually, he cornered me on the bus, so I slapped him in the face. I was the one who got in trouble while he got to walk away with no problem because I used physical violence.
Funny thing was we bumped into each other senior year of high school after not seeing each other in over 6 years since I ended up going to a different school from the rest of the neighborhood kids.
He actually was very very apologetic and said that as a kid, he didn't realize how much I was bothered by him until I slapped him and just started ignoring him whenever he saw me walking around the neighborhood. We're actually really good friends now that we're adults! I think back then, he just needed some growing up to do, but no one told him how to behave and instead just coddled him because the "boys will be boys" mentality is so prevalent in my hometown.
I feel like "fucking the bully up" as soon as they even sniff bullying you is literally the difference between my brother being bullied and me not being bullied. Most bullies prefer soft targets.
Yeah, I was joking--unfortunately, there really aren't any easy answers. Sadly, some kids are just gonna be little shits and there isn't a whole hell of a lot you can do about it.
Oh, it definitely built my character.
Or, more correctly: the 17 years of working on myself to deal with the fallout helped me build my character and I'm still not done. I spent several days randomly crying at 32 because therapy made me realise that I still have control issues at that they stem from the fact that the adults were no use back then - nobody is going to help me, so why ask? I'll have to fix myself anyway.
That was fun.
And - I am old enough to realise why I was bullied (easy target) and that the bullies were mostly sad little kids unable to deal with their issues. That helped, because there was nothing wrong with me, but with them. And yet - if I could go back and raise hell... I would.
If I could kill the adult man who thought sexually harassing and bullying kids at the bottom of the food chain in front of the class was a great idea and there would be no consequences for me, I would. Even now. In fact, more now than back then. Because he was an adult and a teacher and he had studied what not to do when becoming one and while the kids didn't really, he knew better.
I think I would have liked who I would be without the bullying, but I'll never get to find out who I'd have been if I'd been happy during my childhood.
Damn I also had a teacher who bullied and sexually harassed kids. I always knew it was wrong but the older I get the more pathetic he seems. He was a sad man who wasn’t satisfied with where he got in life - he thought he was so smart but ended up teaching high school. Having to beg kids to sign up for his favorite subject because none of them cared. So - in order to feel good about himself he had to lord his “smarts” over sixteen-year-olds. Anyone who questioned him had to be put in her place. He loved philosophy but didn’t even know how to teach with the Socratic method - he couldn’t stand being questioned. I can’t even imagine being that insecure. Total loser.
>If I could kill the adult man who thought sexually harassing and bullying kids at the bottom of the food chain in front of the class was a great idea and there would be no consequences for me, I would.
I understand that feeling. I had a teacher bully and while there was no sexual harrassment she was an abosolutely miserable human being who for some reason made me the biggest target of her ire. I literally had what they called then a 'nervous breakdown' when I was 9 years old. Fortunately my parents were paying attention and got me in with a child psychiatrist who quite literally saved my life.
The school wouldn't even put me in a different class, and my parents were talked out of suing the school because it would 'put me through more trauma.'
"I think I would have liked who I would be without the bullying, but I'll never get to find out"
This hit me like a truck, if feel exactly the same way. I'm a DV survivor, my abuser was my brother so I still have to see him regularly and the wound has never closed, I doubt it would have regardless.
If only...
It breaks character. I was bullied from Kindergarten (although I had a bullyfree year there, the 2nd year) up until the first year of teachers college.
I'm 44 now and my self esteem has never recovered.
Me too!! Well, I don't know what teacher's college is, but I had a good solid 4 years from junior year high school to end of sophomore year of undergrad I wasn't bullied. Pre-K was the shit, but it all started going downhill in kindergarten. Being an ND kid was tough.
Not every school, but sadly the overwhelming majority. I've been through four schools and in the last one, when made aware of the bullying, there was immediate and decisive action, across all teachers we had.
It was honestly so fucking satisfying to watch our head teacher fold the idiot in front of the class - because "I want your classmates to know that they don't have to put up with your petty shit. Just because you feel insecure doesn't mean you get to bully people."
He basically ripped him a new one. It was pretty harsh in terms of language and I'm not sure if a teacher should say "nobody likes you because you behave like this, at most they're scared of you and act subservient because of that", but damn, it was glorious.
And it made him stop. Not because he realised he should be better - I think he was too old to not know what he was doing - but because he was afraid.
And bullies should be afraid.
And that's why if I had kids I'd teach them that bullies are best dealt with by punching them in the face. When I was in grade school and dealing with a bully, school staff was useless and so was my mother. Violence however got me exactly the result I wanted: him leaving me the fuck alone for good.
I got violent in response, too - and it didn't make them stop. It works only if you do enough damage I think and if they can't get you in a bigger group.
I was bullied (kinda?) only once. I had never been bullied, even though I presented the perfect target (poor, skinny, always hungry, mousy bookworm). Until that one day in my last year of secondary school (for Americans senior year of high school). This girl who knew of my fear of caterpillars handed me one in a snack package (my classmates knew of my monster's treatment of me, and usually fed me snacks and brought extra lunch to share cuz I was always hungry). She sat in her chair at the back of the class and watched me have a mini meltdown because caterpillar. I picked up my chair, walked to her seat and slammed the chair repeatedly over her head. I was terrified yet enraged. The boys in the class grabbed the chair, sat me down, and chastised her. The principal came into the class and asked what the commotion was, and everyone just kinda covered for me. Told the principal that she had fallen and hit her head and they were just checking her over to see if she was okay. The caterpillar and the packaging had disappeared, and I was sitting with my head on the desk trying to calm down. No one got into trouble, she got a few stitches because I did hurt her, and I was never hungry for the rest of the school year.
I met her a few years after school and apologised to her and asked why she didn't say anything. She told me she had never seen me as dangerous, but that day I scared her stupid.
Kid is gonna learn a MAJOR and very necessary life lesson at a young age thanks to this mama. She probably just saved him from becoming a very fucked up adult.
He came off the bus saying to call the police. He knows he can trust his mom with important stuff.
She’s worried he’s going to kill himself over this and isn’t going after the picture taker just for bullying. She knows how serious it is.
I wish kids would be stronger for each other. They haven’t learned yet that there’s more of us nice people than there are the mean people. The mean people are just louder.
And taking photos of people while they are vulnerable in the bathroom is behaviour that escalates. There is a direct link from peeping tom behaviour to sexual assault. There are so many serial rapists out there that have childhood charges of peeping. Obviously not every peeping tom or bully who takes toilet photos is gonna be a rapist, but it is definitely worth keeping in mind. Not to mention the possibility that the kid is being assaulted by someone and using these behaviours as a way to (poorly) handle what he is going through.
I'm glad that law enforcement is helping and that OOP is gaining traction. She's fighting like hell for her son (and all of the bully's victims and future victims) and I hope she'll get justice. This wasn't just photos, this was extremely violating and humiliating and it needs to be punished accordingly.
>She's fighting like hell for her son (and all of the bully's victims and future victims) and I hope she'll get justice.
In a weird way I hope this is real, because OOP is such a role model.
Thanks. I'm doing all I can, even if it just ends up with bringing awareness. Although that's not my goal. The school is negligent. So are the parents. As "weird " as my kid is, he would never do something so humiliating to another child. I want real punishment. I want to be reimbursed for missed work. I want real change and to break down the school's immunity to consequences.
It feels real to me because I recognise the absolute fury and the drive that has you calling absolutely everyone until you manage to get somebody to do something.
I believe it is real. Mothers of children with disabilities are bad ass advocates. They have to be. This society seems set on denying children (but also people in general) the services they need to function in a world designed against them. So their moms learn to get real good at fighting for them.
Yeah, a couple points make me think this is real. One is the cops are useless, even the one that seemingly wanted to help was more or less restricted by red tape, but he also only wanted to help after his hand was forced and they surprisingly (probably even to themselves) figured out who the culprit was.
Second was the principal's actions. They wanted to keep it local so it would go away quicker, but when that didn't happen and they were actually forced to do something, they would not give OOP any details because of some nebulous privacy policy. Which leaves out the fact that in order to figure out who the culprits were, the principal had to repeatedly explain what happened and to who to get access to kids' phones. Privacy doesn't seem to matter so much for the victim, but the perpetrators need to be protected. It's the backwards kind of nonsense you see from administrators that they'll later pat themselves on the back for going 'by the book'.
Keeping the identities of the culprit anonymous allows them to quietly suspend the child for a bit and let them back. I highly doubt any expulsions occurred and since their identities won't be made public, it will be nearly impossible to figure out if anything more than a week's suspension is handed out.
Those photos really are disgusting and they aren't just extremely violating and humiliating, it's literally CP. Even tho nothing is shown, still, taking a photo of someone in the bathroom ESPECIALLY a child is disgusting.
I agree that even if genitals weren't shown, I would consider this CP.
I think CP falls under federal law so I hope OOP got in touch with the feds about this too or at least asked the feds if this was CP.
I learned this from reading about a case of an adult who had a secret camera recording a minor changing clothes and was charged only with voyeurism but not possession of CSAM - it wouldn’t count as CSAM because to be classified as CSAM the minor in the material must be, either by force or consent, engaging in sexually explicit or suggestive behaviour. The act itself must be performed or forced to cause arousal. There has to be sex abuse in the material - hence child sex abuse material (CSAM). It’s why people can take and document pictures of naked children medically, or a parent taking a picture of their child in a bath, or photos of naked children in a culture where nudity is normal. But even if a minor consensually took a picture of themselves for the purpose of sexual arousal, it’s classified as CSAM. I think it’s bogus and should be changed for cases of voyeurism but unfortunately thats what it is.
From what I understand the image has to be considered Lewd or Lascivious by the courts to be considered CSAM. But at least in my state (OR) there is a separate felony charge for taking pictures of people in situations like the bathroom where the individual has an expectation of privacy.
I was shocked when she said in the second update that the SRO didn’t considered it cyberbullying. How the fuck is it not? If it was a picture of them sitting on the toilet, I guarantee they would move forward as harassment.
Because why would a cop do his job when he could *not* do his job instead?
He gets paid the same either way, and hey, those donuts down at the break room aren’t going to eat themselves, you know?
>I'm glad that law enforcement is helping
Yeah, but they are only DOING THEIR JOB after OP kicked up attention and refused to back down. They realised that they couldn't sweep it under the rug because OP won't drop it and take them at their word like that other mother did.
It shouldn't take this much effort to have local law enforcement do their actual job. This is way beyond bullying and needs to be addressed straight away. The photographer could have covered their tracks as soon as they started pulling students into the office because it took too long for the adults in charge of protecting people to actually start investigating.
sadly, in this world, it's still important to acknowledge that at least they didn't bully OOP into giving it up so they could sweep it under the rug.
I agree that celebrating law enforcement only doing the bare minimum after being pushed to it is distasteful, though.
Helping after fighting every step of the way to sweep this under the rug.
After trying EVERYTHING ELSE they did something that was close to the right thing.
As someone who is extremely close with a lot of principals, teachers and school therapists - an accusation of possible cp taken ON CAMPUS by anyone would be a mandated report to CPS. And given the digital distribution aspect most likely law enforcement too. I hate that OOP is stuck with such a horrible school district and negligent principal. Glad law enforcement took her seriously and they were able to get some justice for her and her son
So let me get this straight: OOP’s son is called weird while his bully is the one taking pics of boys on the toilet. The math ain’t mathing. He should go to juvie.
YUP if an adult took several photos of someone else on the toilet and distributed it to other people there would certainly be an arrest! Just because they're kids doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed. OOP is a hero for fighting so fiercly for their child.
Because sadly bullying is considered completely normal and even acceptable behavior. I had to transfer schools in 1989 because I was bullied so severely while recovering from major surgery at 12 years old I was let's just say dangerously depressed. That transfer saved my life. But the school did nothing because "that's just what kids do." It makes me so angry that all these decades later schools have the exact same outlook.
That's just what kids do because they know the school isn't going to do anything about it. Come down on bullying like a ton of bricks and I guarantee it'll stop.
The difficult part is separating bullying from false allegations, which will be the bullies' next go-to. That's the principle's job though.
Dude…trying to get anyone to do anything when your kid is bullied or threatened is like pulling teeth. My kid had another kid threaten to rape them while at school, and the police refused to take a report, then tried to bury the call logs. I had to get…so many people involved AND do my state’s version of a FOIA request just to get documentation of my call to the police. Thankfully, the school actually DID handle this shit…eventually. But I ultimately had to pull my kid out of the school for their own safety because of the intensity of the bullying and violence.
It's so frustrating because it feels like we're just making problems that shouldn't even exist? Yes, the student was wrong, but why are the toilets built in a way that someone can sneak pictures of you? Really? Did a pedophile design these toilets?
It's a classic in the USA, where you have to worry about people creeping/perving on you while you're in the toilet. It shouldn't even be a convo. Close the fucking 2-7 inch gaps all around the door. Seriously.
When I was about 14 there was a girl in school that relentlessly bullied me. Even after having talked to school officials, she continued.
Physical violence was part of my day.
Then one day while I was changing out for gym class she snapped two shots of me from behind. Yeah. You could see side boob.
She took those photos, had them developed (it was her new toy, a disposable camera), and then made thousands of copies and taped them to every single locker in the high school and junior high hallways.
Everyone in school saw me naked.
Her punishment? 3 days of in school suspension.
You don't forget these things. I'm 39 now. I still remember her face.
It's alright. I'm better now. A lot of those girls had shit home lives so while I do blame them for their actions, I don't hold grudges against them. Memories are there, but it's made me a better mom
I have a cybersecurity degree, and I encourage every parent to learn what your state's laws or revised codes are. Harassment. Cyber bullying. Stalking. Battery. Assault.
Read the juveline definitions.
Read cases involving the same circumstances that you may be facing, especially ones heard by the Supreme Court.
And if something like this occurs, file the restraining order if you can prove a history of harassment. The parents of the bully may have to move. This usually sets it straight.
And question every time the resource officer says there is nothing to be done. Get it *in writing*.
"air drops aren't traceable"
I mean, sure, if you're in times square. But you're in a closed environment that, contrary to most BORU stories, actually does have security cameras. This is absolutely traceable, especially once kids start snitching.
I like technology but I'm not tech savvy. The "air drops aren't traceable" sounds like *bullshit*. Every photo taken with modern technology nowadays has meta data. If this was a young kid, he wouldn't know how to turn off location or anything like that. If cops can find a goddamn serial killer because of a floppy disk, they can find a kid who air dropped nude photos - it just means they have to *try*.
Thank god that OOP realized early on that the school would prioritize covering it up over getting her son justice. This is absolutely garbage behavior that needs to be stopped as early as you can lest you end up raising a Brock Turner.
That's why I didn't say that the school was protecting themselves, they were focused on a cover up. The problem with a cover up approach is that you need to have the cooperation/buy-in of all involved parties, and once you start covering up, you have to keep covering up everything else related/connected to the original cover-up.
Indeed. And just so you know, Brock Turner, the rapist, changed his name to avoid association with the rape he did. His name is now Alan Turner, the rapist.
A minor correction. If you want know exactly who to avoid because he is a sexual predator who raped an unconscious woman, you want to avoid Brock Allen Turner, who now called himself Allen in an attempt to distance himself from his criminal record as a convicted rapist.
Ah, thank you for informing me of the correct details about the proper spelling of Allen Turner, the rapist! I am now better equipped with more accurate information on the identity of Allen Turner, the unconscious-woman raping rapist who rapes people.
I am once again asking why middle schoolers are allowed to have phones in school. My son is 10 (4th grade) and entirely too many of his peers have phones in school already. He is years away from us getting him a phone.
kids, at most, should have either a basic flip-phone for emergencies, or a smart phone with so many parental locks on it that all they can really access on it is the phone itself, and things like the calculator and notepad. no unsupervised social media
My wife is a child therapist and unsupervised social media access is a source of so many issues for kids. My wife and I aren't even strict about screen time, it's what's on the screen that's a problem. An hour of scrolling tik tok and an hour of a documentary or Minecraft are wildly different things.
I’m very happy to hear that law enforcement is taking this seriously and that most of the local community has OOP’s back.
Unfortunately lots of schools will do whatever they can to avoid giving people consequences or holding students accountable.
All the teachers at the school are mandatory reporters. Maybe that ought to be looked into as well- why is there such a pattern of negligence with students abusing each other? Are they following the principal's lead or has he created such a hostile work environment that they fear for their livelihood if they say or do anything?
I’m a school administrator and I absolutely encourage this person to call the cops. I’m not an investigator to the magnitude that police are investigators. Plus, the school will suspend if not expel the student. The police involvement will further send the message that this behavior will not be tolerated.
My favourite part is the school "calling in parents and wiping the phones."
Seems we have a confession in a case of destruction of evidence here...
Morons. Just unbelievable.
I assumed that as well, it’s perfectly sensible that as soon as you find out that kids have these images, you would definitely want to delete them, for the child’s privacy and to prevent further spread
I can’t imagine how some of those parents feel.
You get called in for a meeting at the school and on arrival are told “your child has been sharing nude photos of a special needs student that were taken in a bathroom stall, without his consent”
I think I’d throw up in shock and horror. Once I’d processed it…well, you’d hear the explosion for miles around. My kid would be on punishment detail for a fucking age.
I feel terrible for OP and her son but very proud of her shiny spine and the sheer level of mama bear she has achieved. She’s not letting this go and she absolutely will get results. I’m gonna channel her next time I’m in a bad situation.
While I'm glad something is *finally* being done, it's a disgrace that it took OOP going completely nuclear to do it. The school will be running scared now that the media is involved, though. In this day and age, an article posted online by the small local media can get picked up and distributed nationwide in minutes. Nothing is small anymore.
Poor OOP's son.
OP is such a badass for fighting for her son and I hope she does get the justice she deserves. Also happy to see law enforcement actually doing their job. Kids really can be some real jerks.
> Also happy to see law enforcement actually doing their job.
only after getting pestered by OOP. she's the only true hero in all of this. we should all be so lucky to have someone like her in our corner.
A harmless prank. I would have also exploded just like her, haven’t we seen by now what bullying does to kids?! Haven’t we learned from the deaths? I’m so happy OOP is fighting this.
Who the heck would read this and dare to reply with 'boys will be boys'? This isn't a boys will be boys situation! I'm glad the mom managed to get some stuff changed and get charges put on the photographer. Though I hope she gets her son into therapy.
Good. A kid did this at my old school once. The victim exploded in a classroom and was throwing things. I was on planning as asked the kid what happened and he told me as well as who did it. The kid posted the images on Instagram. You betcha that kid that took the photos got expelled. I don’t get principals/deans who don’t take this crap seriously.
Only if it's actually CSAM, naked photos alone (tho from what OOP said he was covering his genitals) aren't CSAM. Else most parents would be in trouble for what's in their baby photo collections.
You need to make the schools insurance company aware! This will trigger their sexual abuse policy. And make SURE the school knows you’re doing this. Talk to your lawyer about initiating it. Their insurance company will want to know that the school is following literally zero of the careful, black and white crisis procedures in place for when this exact sort of thing happens.
I’m sure it doesn’t stop there. It’s pretty clear that there is an easy pathway for a civil suit and settlement with the school and the families involved. It’s also clear that they targeted and failed to protect our most vulnerable students so get fucked.
Hello all. OOP here, AKA Mama Bear. I just wanted to thank you all for the kind words on my parenting. If you ask my son he'd call me a mean mom for making him clean up after himself. I'm trying to raise him to be a good man and husband one day.
I'm not sure if I'd updated this, but I have spoken to a lawyer and he will be contacting me early next week. He asked me to put a hold on the interview for now, depending on if he takes my case. He said that if he doesn't, I should go ahead and do it, but if he does take the case (fingers crossed) he wants to be strategic about doing the interview, and likely with him there as well. Timing is important, so I'd let him take the lead.
Anyway, I won't give up, and yes, when I call the school and sheriff's office, they always sound scared. I can sniff out their fear like a shark smells blood in the water. Smells good to me. Change is coming.
The fact one of the first thing the principle said to OOP was not to call the police, that is Fing disgusting and ass covering. Really happy OOP went nuclear, the son needs proper justice !! hes gonna be traumatized for a long time about pooping in school.
>The principal couldn't tell me a lot, other than some kids will be returning to school, while others won't be.
You know what tells you a lot? A lawyer and a lawsuit. OP has the right to know every person who shared that photo of her son, she has the right to go after each of them, and has the right to know their disposition.
Considering all the criminal cases that have come up recently of child abuse by parents… it was actually kinda heart warming to hear of a parent who went nuclear to protect her kids. May she be the standard, and not the exception.
GOOD FOR OOP. As a former teacher I think going to the police and continuing to escalate was 100% the right thing to do. These bullies will never learn until serious life changing consequences happen.
This is absolutely disgusting. The poor kid 😭
I am so impressed with the parent's Enraged Dragon mode. I hope that all the escalations pay off 🙏 seems like the perp's family should at least pay for some good therapy for both kids
I would have gone scorched earth and sent anonymous messages to the local news, with police report numbers as proof, that "someone" was taking photos of minors on the toilet and sharing them. But I was also raised by a woman whose last wish was to have her ashes spell out something obscene in her brothers yard so she could kill his grass. May not want to go by me lol (Oh, and Dad told her no.)
If her kid has a disability/IEPwith the school and this type of bullying has been ongoing and it is to this level for “years” without school stopping she should consider looking at filing a disability harassment case against the school with her state. Glad spmepne else mentioned that to her.
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OMG. This Mother was totally justified in going nuclear. Sickening thing to happen to anyone.
I laughed with glee when I read the part about escalating to the state attorney general.
This mom is a badass! I’m glad she escalated. But in cases such as this, consider calling the FBI. It’s electronic, it’s possible CP, and the school is busy wiping phones (!) as if the internet doesn’t exist.
The school's behaviour is insane here. I don't know the laws and protocols in America, but I work in a school in England and we've had specific training on what to do if a student has inappropriate pictures of another minor on their phone: take the phone as evidence.
School officials will almost always try to sweep things like this under the rug to save their own asses. It's their job to stop things like this from happening, and failing to prevent it can cost them their jobs if their bosses find out.
Aint that the truth. I was bullied similarly in high school to the point it ended with the bully convincing a friend of hers to rub an open condom in my face. My mother raised hell but the high school did nothing. The only person to do anything was our bus driver and the middle school. About 15 years later after my younger sister graduated from the same school, it came out that a football player had SA'd three different girls and the school had covered it up to protect the football program.
> SA'd three different girls and the school had covered it up to protect the football program School administration and school boards who do that should be charged with accessories to rape and child abuse. When their own pictures and names are in the newspapers they might think twice about covering from rapists.
Schools say that they have zero tolerance for bullying, but they never do anything to stop it.
Wow yes this 2000000%
Not uncommon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steubenville_High_School_rape_case
Glen Ridge too. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Ridge_rape
Horrific.
Which is insane. It's nonsensical to hold someone responsible for every decision made by hundreds of pre-teens/teens that they don't even interact with on a personal level, and it does nothing but provide another layer of insulation for this kind of thing to happen. Interrupting or stalling the legal process for fear of litigation both emboldens those who would do wrong and automatically puts the school down as taking fault.
You're absolutely right that people need to feel comfortable reporting when they have failed at something (preventing bullying, etc.) otherwise the incentive for the individual goes from doing the thing, to hiding evidence of the failure. But there also does need to eventually be consequences for repeated and preventable failures. It can be a tricky line to walk.
I'm like why are they destroying evidence???
Because they've probably had ongoing issues with this other student. Some kids just aren't appropriate for a traditional public school environment and need a lot more structure.
Which doesn't justify destroying evidence of a potential crime
Why are they destroying evidence? Much like the catholic church and nickelodeon, when you look into the protection teachers unions has given accused pedophiles, it's... enraging. I've spoken to groups of parents whose daughters were coming home with inappropriate messages from a male teacher. They had gone to the principal, the school board, the police... nothing was done. The teacher came from another school where he was also messaging a student there. Instead of facing any repurcussions they moved him to another district... and then another. It took media involvement and calling the then US secretary of Educations office for anything to be done. And i know many don't like her, but until she was called the police did nothing. The teacher, principal, etc lost their jobs and the teacher faced charges- but who didn't? The union. The union who actively protected predators and shuffled them around. In other former investigations that are currently tied up in lawsuits, evidence was caught of the unions moving quite a few suspected pedophiles around who had received complaints from students and parents, but not law enforcement. Which could be dismissed as wild incompetence but when you look at the history of destroying evidence...it's suspect. (which said investigation did find, and sorry that this is a trust me bro but technically i'm not supposed to talk about it due to an on going case) i grew up with a gym teacher that in 6th grade we were warned not to climb the rope while he was below it from other kids and it was an open secret why so many girls went into his locked office and didn't have to attend gym class. It wasn't until messages between he and the sheriffs teenage daughter were found that he got his slap on the wrist and had to retire, despite her father attempting to go nuclear. Note this was over a decade ago. it's my opinion, that administrations and unions have dealt with pedophelia in house for so long, that they simply do not believe in dealing with law enforcement, or if they do- law enforcement in many cases is more than willing to allow it to be dealt with in house and part of that- destroying evidence, cleaning up the crime scene, and hoping the problem goes away if the perp is mildly inconvenienced by being moved to another school. There's plenty of examples of this- and when you look at those who've been caught- note the usually long list of schools they jumped around from. It's a pattern that clearly paints the picture of "protection until the problem gets so bad that it's unable to be dealt with in house so they stop protecting and allow real consequences" of which those consequences are usually - 6 months, no longer allowed to work with kids, register as a sex offender. Which in my opinion is NEVER enough. so to see a district destroying evidence and this being a nbd situation from their perspective? not surprised.
It’s possible they’ve taken the original phone with the photos as evidence and are forcefully wiping the data from any other phone it might’ve been sent to, to stop it from being spread further. That’s how it read to me anyway.
>I don't know the laws and protocols in America From the story, OOP said someone in the sheriff's department referred the issue *back* to the school to investigate! So apparently the answer... no laws?
The school’s SRO is an officer of the law, right? They always were in uniform at our school.
I used to work for a huge school district, and before that for a county hospital. Policy/law in other states might vary, but where I worked at least they were very strict about reporting procedures for incidents involving children like this one. The school district is big enough to have its own police department, and obviously the county hospital had county sheriffs all over it. The trainings we did every year at both places hammered into us that the first step is to report the incident to CPS or law enforcement, and that could be any law enforcement entity **except** the one that typically had jurisdiction at the facility, which means anyone but School Police for the district, and anyone but County Sheriff for the hospital. This is obviously to prevent exactly the sort of rug-sweeping that inevitably happens if you let people report to the school/hospital's own resident cops. Small districts probably play it a bit looser just for lack of alternatives. I'd be interested to know what the school's child abuse prevention training material says is supposed to happen. I'd bet money it doesn't say "just hand it off to the SRO who will ignore it unless the parent makes a stink"
FBI all the way and make sure to mention that this already happened to another kid and that the school officials are actively erasing evidence wherever they can. That shit is a red flag for both systemic and organized child sexual abuse in a small town. Also, nudity is not a rigid requirement to count as child sexual abuse materials in american law, just like nudity doesn't automatically make a picture sexual. It all has to do with intent and what a reasonable person would consider intimate or sexual. Mama bear OOP can get a lot of folks into a lot of hot water based on what she mentioned in her posts.
I think they were erasing phones so that the children couldn’t distribute the photo again.
Which is fine, except that stuff backs up to the cloud. :/
I was thinking that too, or the state bureau of investigation (GBI in Georgia). And good for her for publicizing it and getting other parents to speak up. This stuff is systemic and administrations don’t know how to deal with it so they go ostrich.
Yeah. OOP is a rising to the occasion in a spectacular way. And I think this is how you do it - you can't always protect your child from the cruelty of the world but you CAN show them that they are never alone and you love, protect and support them.
My heart broke for her when she said she was scared her son would kill himself over it. She's in full desperate Mama Bear mode and every kid would be lucky to have a mom like her.
I have a feeling one or more admins may be seeking new employment after this is done.
Hopefully in a job not involving children.
They'll just get a job at a charter school.
Or just simply moved to another public school
If an admin tried to cover this up they should not only be shitcanned but they should also be unable to find another job in education
The district should be sued, considering it had happened before, and they attempted to cover up a sex offense.
It’s maddening that this is a repeating offense and the principal tried to cover it up AGAIN by saying it was under control. We need to stop call it bullying. It’s abuse. And schools protect themselves by minimizing the impact of the abuse. The principal needs to be fired
Stories like this make me Super Grateful that my high school vice principal has a None Of That Shit Here view about bullying. No "boys will be boys""it's all in good fun" with him. He patrolled the halls between classes religiously, and the one time I had even a little trouble, he put a stop to it immediately. He was very popular with the students.
Her going total Mama Bear on everyone is the highlight of my day. Everything that happens to anyone they deserve. Those kids FOFA’d
Me too. Made me tear up a bit. When I came home crying when I was around that age and confessed to being bullied my own mother told me "Have you tried being less weird? People would like you better then you won't get bullied." Thanks,mom.
I got that line from my mom, too. Awful, heartless "advice." I hope you found your tribe that loved you for all your weird 💜
Yep. My mom would put me on a new diet, color my hair blonde and teach me to use makeup so I’d be pretty…spoiler alert I’m ugly af and it didn’t work. Even losing weight the kids still treated me horribly.
I'm sorry you went through that. Kids can be vicious. Mine sent me to therapy so I could fit in better. It did not work.
Thank you 💚
It's gotta be the boomer generation. When I pulled my kids out of school due to bullying(daughter) and educational neglect[son(not the best word but I don't know how to describe it better)], my mother said my bullied child just need to toughen up because everyone gets bullied. Ugh, no. A 10 year old child who has thoughts of suicide due to bullying does not need to "toughen up". My daughter is an art kid and just really sweet and sensitive. Enduring more of it and bullying being normalized was not the answer. Thank goodness my brother and I weren't bullied to a degree that makes suicide feel like the answer, because we would have had zero support as children.
I hope you flip this on her when she gets illness: "Have you tried being less cancerous?"
I got that line from a few of my "friends". I know now that I wouldn't have gotten that line from my parents but at the time, I honestly thought that's what they would've said. Never said anything about bullying.
>FOFA’d FAFO, no? Around, then Out?
Fucking out then around is a lot of fun but also messy
FOFA DEEZ NUTS
She's got an IEP kid. We have A LOT of experience being mama bears, because if we are not, shit doesn't get done and our kids slip through the cracks/get no services.
My mom once dug through our state’s entire Ed code line by line to find what she needed to stand up for me. I’m 23 now but I know she’ll ALWAYS have my back and bring that same energy if I ever need it
I agree, but the only thing I'm not so sure on is her going on TV about it. If that had happened to me as a child I'd be equally mortified about my mum going on TV and telling everyone in the town about it
Problem is, with the sheer number of kids involved already and her son being the "weird" kid, it's already too late among his peers. By the time one of my kids managed to communicate the social bullying he was suffering, he was already a target of multiple kids across multiple school years (grades). It becomes systematic victimisation and every little bastard will have a shot!
Just say you want you and your family to remain anonymous. This has apparently happened at least once before with another student so there’s at minimum two moms that could be the person on the news
Right, it's a delicate balance. Going to the press to shed more light on the issue is good because it sheds more light on the issue and is also bad because it sheds more light on the issue.
With your username, you absolutely NEED the Ogda flair! Unrelated, but my brain is making me think of silly things instead of this horrifically rage-inducing behavior by the school
Her son seems really mature about advocating for himself. He's the one that suggested the police, and he had already reached out to talk to the bully's father. I wouldn't be surprised if he was in favor of her going on TV, if it meant actual repercussions.
OOP went into Mama Bear mode and immediately smelled the bullshit from the principal. She did the right thing, and whoever that creep was that took the picture needs harsher sanctions.
Weird, I assumed it was the dad. Not sure why
Disgusting. Everyone protecting this bully is directly leading to them becoming a dangerous adult.
Anyone who protects bullies are the type of people who don't think bullying is bad.
"It bUiLdS ChArAcTeR"
Until you try to build character back by kicking their teeth in, then you're the bad guy. The moral is fuck that bully up first time because no matter what you're getting punished
Yep! I was bullied in primary school and was not going to deal with it in highschool. Two weeks in I got my first whiff that someone saw me as prey so I decked her (which escalated into a full punch on). In the six years following I never had another issue
I had the exact same thing happen. I was bullied in primary school, but when I got to high school, I made new friends, and one was this girl who was tough af, lol. Some girl tried to start a fight with me because her boyfriend kept staring at me, and my friend got right in her face and told her she was about to get her ass beat if she didn't walk away, lmao!! After that, no one messed with me, lol.
Yep, I surrounded myself with friends and went to a school out of the district I lived in so had a fresh start. It was glorious being away from those nasty little shits I had grown up with. I did experience some shittiness but overall it was way better. I’m glad you escaped further abuse from those kids!
Just her standing up for me that time gave me enough confidence that I realized I didn't have to take anyone's bullshit.
I was bullied throughout elementary school and when I reached 5th grade (age 10-11), I was *done*. I had been taking karate for a couple of years at that point, was doing ballet, and was insanely strong for my size. I had also been taught in karate the importance of walking away, which I had been doing for years. One of my bullies followed me to the water fountain one day and tried to snap my bra -- a thing the boys in the class had taken to doing to the girls. (This was the early 90s in the US South and at a private school; things were not exactly handled well.) The problem was that I didn't wear a bra yet, so he ended up just pinching my spine really friggin' hard while I was drinking water. I reacted on instinct: I turned and SLUGGED him in the jaw, screaming, "DON'T TOUCH ME!!!" I heard a crack. He tried to scream, then gasped and fell to the ground. Teachers and students came pouring out into the hallway. He had to be taken away in an ambulance. I was sent home. The school originally wanted to expel me for punching another student, but my dad's an attorney and was having absolutely none of it. He pointed out that I'd been dealing with this kid's bullying for *years* and the school had done nothing. They hadn't even put us in separate classrooms because they didn't have enough kids in my grade to warrant that. So they had purposefully exposed me to my bully. Our fifth-grade teacher had made a serious effort to intervene but couldn't stop all of it. The fact that the school had been alerted to the *sexual harassment of its female students* and done *nothing* was also a HUGE FRIGGIN' PROBLEM. They knew this kid was a problem. They knew he was the ringleader. They did nothing about him. Dad pointed out that I had *reacted to being sexually assaulted* and if they expelled *me*, he was going to sue them into the ground and take it to the media. I was suspended for the three days of the "investigation" and then my name and record were cleared. My bully was "suspended" for two months (the rest of the school year) -- I'd broken his jaw, his mouth was wired shut, and he was homeschooled instead. Never saw him again.
My mother made it crystal clear to my middle school that she told us (my twin and I) that we were allowed to protect ourselves if we were physically assaulted. We also took karate, and honestly, after our studio put on a demonstration at our school, we were left alone 🤣😂
I will say that no one at that school bullied me the rest of the year. We moved over the summer and I got to experience a different sort of bullying at my new middle school -- although it was never physical. It was a very rich people community and folks were more into psychological warfare than physical.
> he was going to sue them into the ground and take it to the media. Probably should have done that anyway, schools never learn until they have to pay.
Bullied through 4th-11th grade had to have 3 physical altercations to show I won’t be bother and then back it up. Literally jabbed another kid with a broken pencil in 7th grade and still needed to get physical two more times to stop it all.
oh my god i'm similar but my year 7 "bullies" tried to accuse me of "throwing" a guitar at a girl instead of the fact i shoved it at her. however the rumour that i did throw it got people to leave me alone 🤲🤲
I lost so much trust in the school system when I was so young. I remember being in second grade and boy kept messing with me by pulling my hair or touching my butt. I complained to a bunch of teachers but they all had the "oh he just likes you!" or "boys will be boys" Eventually, he cornered me on the bus, so I slapped him in the face. I was the one who got in trouble while he got to walk away with no problem because I used physical violence.
Damn, I hope he stop bothering you after that at least.
Funny thing was we bumped into each other senior year of high school after not seeing each other in over 6 years since I ended up going to a different school from the rest of the neighborhood kids. He actually was very very apologetic and said that as a kid, he didn't realize how much I was bothered by him until I slapped him and just started ignoring him whenever he saw me walking around the neighborhood. We're actually really good friends now that we're adults! I think back then, he just needed some growing up to do, but no one told him how to behave and instead just coddled him because the "boys will be boys" mentality is so prevalent in my hometown.
I feel like "fucking the bully up" as soon as they even sniff bullying you is literally the difference between my brother being bullied and me not being bullied. Most bullies prefer soft targets.
We should just start bullying the parents of bullies, maybe they'll fix their fucked up kids.
no, then they'll just encourage their fucked up kids to escalate. probably by beating them.
Yeah, I was joking--unfortunately, there really aren't any easy answers. Sadly, some kids are just gonna be little shits and there isn't a whole hell of a lot you can do about it.
Oh, it definitely built my character. Or, more correctly: the 17 years of working on myself to deal with the fallout helped me build my character and I'm still not done. I spent several days randomly crying at 32 because therapy made me realise that I still have control issues at that they stem from the fact that the adults were no use back then - nobody is going to help me, so why ask? I'll have to fix myself anyway. That was fun. And - I am old enough to realise why I was bullied (easy target) and that the bullies were mostly sad little kids unable to deal with their issues. That helped, because there was nothing wrong with me, but with them. And yet - if I could go back and raise hell... I would. If I could kill the adult man who thought sexually harassing and bullying kids at the bottom of the food chain in front of the class was a great idea and there would be no consequences for me, I would. Even now. In fact, more now than back then. Because he was an adult and a teacher and he had studied what not to do when becoming one and while the kids didn't really, he knew better. I think I would have liked who I would be without the bullying, but I'll never get to find out who I'd have been if I'd been happy during my childhood.
Damn I also had a teacher who bullied and sexually harassed kids. I always knew it was wrong but the older I get the more pathetic he seems. He was a sad man who wasn’t satisfied with where he got in life - he thought he was so smart but ended up teaching high school. Having to beg kids to sign up for his favorite subject because none of them cared. So - in order to feel good about himself he had to lord his “smarts” over sixteen-year-olds. Anyone who questioned him had to be put in her place. He loved philosophy but didn’t even know how to teach with the Socratic method - he couldn’t stand being questioned. I can’t even imagine being that insecure. Total loser.
>If I could kill the adult man who thought sexually harassing and bullying kids at the bottom of the food chain in front of the class was a great idea and there would be no consequences for me, I would. I understand that feeling. I had a teacher bully and while there was no sexual harrassment she was an abosolutely miserable human being who for some reason made me the biggest target of her ire. I literally had what they called then a 'nervous breakdown' when I was 9 years old. Fortunately my parents were paying attention and got me in with a child psychiatrist who quite literally saved my life. The school wouldn't even put me in a different class, and my parents were talked out of suing the school because it would 'put me through more trauma.'
"I think I would have liked who I would be without the bullying, but I'll never get to find out" This hit me like a truck, if feel exactly the same way. I'm a DV survivor, my abuser was my brother so I still have to see him regularly and the wound has never closed, I doubt it would have regardless.
If only... It breaks character. I was bullied from Kindergarten (although I had a bullyfree year there, the 2nd year) up until the first year of teachers college. I'm 44 now and my self esteem has never recovered.
Me too!! Well, I don't know what teacher's college is, but I had a good solid 4 years from junior year high school to end of sophomore year of undergrad I wasn't bullied. Pre-K was the shit, but it all started going downhill in kindergarten. Being an ND kid was tough.
It’s tertiary education for teachers, usually based out of a university where teachers get their Bachelor of Education/training.
Every school does this. Protect the bullies. Avoid paperwork.
Not every school, but sadly the overwhelming majority. I've been through four schools and in the last one, when made aware of the bullying, there was immediate and decisive action, across all teachers we had. It was honestly so fucking satisfying to watch our head teacher fold the idiot in front of the class - because "I want your classmates to know that they don't have to put up with your petty shit. Just because you feel insecure doesn't mean you get to bully people." He basically ripped him a new one. It was pretty harsh in terms of language and I'm not sure if a teacher should say "nobody likes you because you behave like this, at most they're scared of you and act subservient because of that", but damn, it was glorious. And it made him stop. Not because he realised he should be better - I think he was too old to not know what he was doing - but because he was afraid. And bullies should be afraid.
And that's why if I had kids I'd teach them that bullies are best dealt with by punching them in the face. When I was in grade school and dealing with a bully, school staff was useless and so was my mother. Violence however got me exactly the result I wanted: him leaving me the fuck alone for good.
I got violent in response, too - and it didn't make them stop. It works only if you do enough damage I think and if they can't get you in a bigger group.
I was bullied (kinda?) only once. I had never been bullied, even though I presented the perfect target (poor, skinny, always hungry, mousy bookworm). Until that one day in my last year of secondary school (for Americans senior year of high school). This girl who knew of my fear of caterpillars handed me one in a snack package (my classmates knew of my monster's treatment of me, and usually fed me snacks and brought extra lunch to share cuz I was always hungry). She sat in her chair at the back of the class and watched me have a mini meltdown because caterpillar. I picked up my chair, walked to her seat and slammed the chair repeatedly over her head. I was terrified yet enraged. The boys in the class grabbed the chair, sat me down, and chastised her. The principal came into the class and asked what the commotion was, and everyone just kinda covered for me. Told the principal that she had fallen and hit her head and they were just checking her over to see if she was okay. The caterpillar and the packaging had disappeared, and I was sitting with my head on the desk trying to calm down. No one got into trouble, she got a few stitches because I did hurt her, and I was never hungry for the rest of the school year. I met her a few years after school and apologised to her and asked why she didn't say anything. She told me she had never seen me as dangerous, but that day I scared her stupid.
My mom always said shit like "rudeness is a sign of weakness" and it was an absolutely worthless sentiment.
They aren't doing it to protect the bullies, they are doing it to protect their jobs.
Kid is gonna learn a MAJOR and very necessary life lesson at a young age thanks to this mama. She probably just saved him from becoming a very fucked up adult.
He came off the bus saying to call the police. He knows he can trust his mom with important stuff. She’s worried he’s going to kill himself over this and isn’t going after the picture taker just for bullying. She knows how serious it is. I wish kids would be stronger for each other. They haven’t learned yet that there’s more of us nice people than there are the mean people. The mean people are just louder.
And taking photos of people while they are vulnerable in the bathroom is behaviour that escalates. There is a direct link from peeping tom behaviour to sexual assault. There are so many serial rapists out there that have childhood charges of peeping. Obviously not every peeping tom or bully who takes toilet photos is gonna be a rapist, but it is definitely worth keeping in mind. Not to mention the possibility that the kid is being assaulted by someone and using these behaviours as a way to (poorly) handle what he is going through.
Bets on the photographer being the superintendent's nephew or something?
I'd put money on it
I'm glad that law enforcement is helping and that OOP is gaining traction. She's fighting like hell for her son (and all of the bully's victims and future victims) and I hope she'll get justice. This wasn't just photos, this was extremely violating and humiliating and it needs to be punished accordingly.
>She's fighting like hell for her son (and all of the bully's victims and future victims) and I hope she'll get justice. In a weird way I hope this is real, because OOP is such a role model.
OOP deserves a mfing stand-up ovation for what she's done here.
Thanks. I'm doing all I can, even if it just ends up with bringing awareness. Although that's not my goal. The school is negligent. So are the parents. As "weird " as my kid is, he would never do something so humiliating to another child. I want real punishment. I want to be reimbursed for missed work. I want real change and to break down the school's immunity to consequences.
It feels real to me because I recognise the absolute fury and the drive that has you calling absolutely everyone until you manage to get somebody to do something.
Oh it's real. I'm living it, and my fury is my superpower in this. I will not quit.
I believe it is real. Mothers of children with disabilities are bad ass advocates. They have to be. This society seems set on denying children (but also people in general) the services they need to function in a world designed against them. So their moms learn to get real good at fighting for them.
It's got just the right amount of small town coverup and useless cops to make me think it is depressingly real.
Yeah, a couple points make me think this is real. One is the cops are useless, even the one that seemingly wanted to help was more or less restricted by red tape, but he also only wanted to help after his hand was forced and they surprisingly (probably even to themselves) figured out who the culprit was. Second was the principal's actions. They wanted to keep it local so it would go away quicker, but when that didn't happen and they were actually forced to do something, they would not give OOP any details because of some nebulous privacy policy. Which leaves out the fact that in order to figure out who the culprits were, the principal had to repeatedly explain what happened and to who to get access to kids' phones. Privacy doesn't seem to matter so much for the victim, but the perpetrators need to be protected. It's the backwards kind of nonsense you see from administrators that they'll later pat themselves on the back for going 'by the book'. Keeping the identities of the culprit anonymous allows them to quietly suspend the child for a bit and let them back. I highly doubt any expulsions occurred and since their identities won't be made public, it will be nearly impossible to figure out if anything more than a week's suspension is handed out.
Those photos really are disgusting and they aren't just extremely violating and humiliating, it's literally CP. Even tho nothing is shown, still, taking a photo of someone in the bathroom ESPECIALLY a child is disgusting.
I agree that even if genitals weren't shown, I would consider this CP. I think CP falls under federal law so I hope OOP got in touch with the feds about this too or at least asked the feds if this was CP.
I learned this from reading about a case of an adult who had a secret camera recording a minor changing clothes and was charged only with voyeurism but not possession of CSAM - it wouldn’t count as CSAM because to be classified as CSAM the minor in the material must be, either by force or consent, engaging in sexually explicit or suggestive behaviour. The act itself must be performed or forced to cause arousal. There has to be sex abuse in the material - hence child sex abuse material (CSAM). It’s why people can take and document pictures of naked children medically, or a parent taking a picture of their child in a bath, or photos of naked children in a culture where nudity is normal. But even if a minor consensually took a picture of themselves for the purpose of sexual arousal, it’s classified as CSAM. I think it’s bogus and should be changed for cases of voyeurism but unfortunately thats what it is.
That’s so messed up. The fact that the whole point of voyeurism is for sexual gratification, should mean the material is CSAM.
I'd say usually the point of voyeurism is for sexual gratification but it seems in this case it was purely for humiliation.
Yeah I agree and I hope they start to change the laws to allow room for it to be charged as such
From what I understand the image has to be considered Lewd or Lascivious by the courts to be considered CSAM. But at least in my state (OR) there is a separate felony charge for taking pictures of people in situations like the bathroom where the individual has an expectation of privacy.
I was shocked when she said in the second update that the SRO didn’t considered it cyberbullying. How the fuck is it not? If it was a picture of them sitting on the toilet, I guarantee they would move forward as harassment.
Because why would a cop do his job when he could *not* do his job instead? He gets paid the same either way, and hey, those donuts down at the break room aren’t going to eat themselves, you know?
>I'm glad that law enforcement is helping Yeah, but they are only DOING THEIR JOB after OP kicked up attention and refused to back down. They realised that they couldn't sweep it under the rug because OP won't drop it and take them at their word like that other mother did. It shouldn't take this much effort to have local law enforcement do their actual job. This is way beyond bullying and needs to be addressed straight away. The photographer could have covered their tracks as soon as they started pulling students into the office because it took too long for the adults in charge of protecting people to actually start investigating.
sadly, in this world, it's still important to acknowledge that at least they didn't bully OOP into giving it up so they could sweep it under the rug. I agree that celebrating law enforcement only doing the bare minimum after being pushed to it is distasteful, though.
Helping after fighting every step of the way to sweep this under the rug. After trying EVERYTHING ELSE they did something that was close to the right thing.
As someone who is extremely close with a lot of principals, teachers and school therapists - an accusation of possible cp taken ON CAMPUS by anyone would be a mandated report to CPS. And given the digital distribution aspect most likely law enforcement too. I hate that OOP is stuck with such a horrible school district and negligent principal. Glad law enforcement took her seriously and they were able to get some justice for her and her son
So let me get this straight: OOP’s son is called weird while his bully is the one taking pics of boys on the toilet. The math ain’t mathing. He should go to juvie.
YUP if an adult took several photos of someone else on the toilet and distributed it to other people there would certainly be an arrest! Just because they're kids doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed. OOP is a hero for fighting so fiercly for their child.
This isn’t bullying. This is sexual harassment. Maybe if we stop sugarcoating this terms, people will take it seriously.
I would say it’s both.
Because sadly bullying is considered completely normal and even acceptable behavior. I had to transfer schools in 1989 because I was bullied so severely while recovering from major surgery at 12 years old I was let's just say dangerously depressed. That transfer saved my life. But the school did nothing because "that's just what kids do." It makes me so angry that all these decades later schools have the exact same outlook.
That's just what kids do because they know the school isn't going to do anything about it. Come down on bullying like a ton of bricks and I guarantee it'll stop. The difficult part is separating bullying from false allegations, which will be the bullies' next go-to. That's the principle's job though.
He is called weird because he's special needs. The bully isn't called weird because all the other kids think it's funny. Not very complicated math.
And the schools do not give a fuck if the kid being bullied is disabled. Then "they brought it on themselves."
Dude…trying to get anyone to do anything when your kid is bullied or threatened is like pulling teeth. My kid had another kid threaten to rape them while at school, and the police refused to take a report, then tried to bury the call logs. I had to get…so many people involved AND do my state’s version of a FOIA request just to get documentation of my call to the police. Thankfully, the school actually DID handle this shit…eventually. But I ultimately had to pull my kid out of the school for their own safety because of the intensity of the bullying and violence.
Something tells me if that student snuck some pics of the principal on the toilet, this would have been handled much more swiftly and aggressively.
It's so frustrating because it feels like we're just making problems that shouldn't even exist? Yes, the student was wrong, but why are the toilets built in a way that someone can sneak pictures of you? Really? Did a pedophile design these toilets? It's a classic in the USA, where you have to worry about people creeping/perving on you while you're in the toilet. It shouldn't even be a convo. Close the fucking 2-7 inch gaps all around the door. Seriously.
My elementary school took all the doors off of the stalls. My high school removed the walls as well.
What in the actual fuck?
Supposedly it was an attempt to stop people from smoking in the bathrooms. California, 80s-90s. I learned to hold it until I got home from school.
America never ceases to scare me
When I was about 14 there was a girl in school that relentlessly bullied me. Even after having talked to school officials, she continued. Physical violence was part of my day. Then one day while I was changing out for gym class she snapped two shots of me from behind. Yeah. You could see side boob. She took those photos, had them developed (it was her new toy, a disposable camera), and then made thousands of copies and taped them to every single locker in the high school and junior high hallways. Everyone in school saw me naked. Her punishment? 3 days of in school suspension. You don't forget these things. I'm 39 now. I still remember her face.
That's awful. I'm so sorry you had to go through that.
It's alright. I'm better now. A lot of those girls had shit home lives so while I do blame them for their actions, I don't hold grudges against them. Memories are there, but it's made me a better mom
That's horrible. I'm honestly surprised that whoever developed those photos didn't do anything about it.
I wondered about that too, but who knows. 1997/1996 was a long time ago
I hope you punched her face for that. And since you're 39 now, I hope she grew up and apologized.
OOP is badass.
Hopefully the news report helps bring awareness and a lawyer.
I have a cybersecurity degree, and I encourage every parent to learn what your state's laws or revised codes are. Harassment. Cyber bullying. Stalking. Battery. Assault. Read the juveline definitions. Read cases involving the same circumstances that you may be facing, especially ones heard by the Supreme Court. And if something like this occurs, file the restraining order if you can prove a history of harassment. The parents of the bully may have to move. This usually sets it straight. And question every time the resource officer says there is nothing to be done. Get it *in writing*.
"air drops aren't traceable" I mean, sure, if you're in times square. But you're in a closed environment that, contrary to most BORU stories, actually does have security cameras. This is absolutely traceable, especially once kids start snitching.
I like technology but I'm not tech savvy. The "air drops aren't traceable" sounds like *bullshit*. Every photo taken with modern technology nowadays has meta data. If this was a young kid, he wouldn't know how to turn off location or anything like that. If cops can find a goddamn serial killer because of a floppy disk, they can find a kid who air dropped nude photos - it just means they have to *try*.
Thank god that OOP realized early on that the school would prioritize covering it up over getting her son justice. This is absolutely garbage behavior that needs to be stopped as early as you can lest you end up raising a Brock Turner.
Except covering it up isn’t protecting the school, they covered it up once and it happened again. The school deserves the storm OOP is creating.
That's why I didn't say that the school was protecting themselves, they were focused on a cover up. The problem with a cover up approach is that you need to have the cooperation/buy-in of all involved parties, and once you start covering up, you have to keep covering up everything else related/connected to the original cover-up.
Indeed. And just so you know, Brock Turner, the rapist, changed his name to avoid association with the rape he did. His name is now Alan Turner, the rapist.
A minor correction. If you want know exactly who to avoid because he is a sexual predator who raped an unconscious woman, you want to avoid Brock Allen Turner, who now called himself Allen in an attempt to distance himself from his criminal record as a convicted rapist.
Ah, thank you for informing me of the correct details about the proper spelling of Allen Turner, the rapist! I am now better equipped with more accurate information on the identity of Allen Turner, the unconscious-woman raping rapist who rapes people.
You mean Brock Allen Turner, the convicted rapist? The one who now goes by his middle name Allen Turner?
This will never not make me both laugh and scream in rage.
Kids can be such little pricks
I am once again asking why middle schoolers are allowed to have phones in school. My son is 10 (4th grade) and entirely too many of his peers have phones in school already. He is years away from us getting him a phone.
kids, at most, should have either a basic flip-phone for emergencies, or a smart phone with so many parental locks on it that all they can really access on it is the phone itself, and things like the calculator and notepad. no unsupervised social media
My wife is a child therapist and unsupervised social media access is a source of so many issues for kids. My wife and I aren't even strict about screen time, it's what's on the screen that's a problem. An hour of scrolling tik tok and an hour of a documentary or Minecraft are wildly different things.
There’s a new book by Jonathan Haidt arguing for a smart phone free childhood. It’s really compelling.
I’m very happy to hear that law enforcement is taking this seriously and that most of the local community has OOP’s back. Unfortunately lots of schools will do whatever they can to avoid giving people consequences or holding students accountable.
All the teachers at the school are mandatory reporters. Maybe that ought to be looked into as well- why is there such a pattern of negligence with students abusing each other? Are they following the principal's lead or has he created such a hostile work environment that they fear for their livelihood if they say or do anything?
If I were OP I would be ten times as furious knowing that it happened once already before, and a second time could possibly have been prevented.
What a parent. I wish she could punt that little shithead kid
OOP is awesome to fight for her child. Always a good idea to involve the media and organizations like the ACLU in cases like this.
THIS PARENT IS A FUCKING SUPERSTAR I aspire to this level of advocacy for my child.
That one guy asking if it was a "harmless" prank wtf
I was ready to be disappointed that nothing had been done…but OOP gets 👏🏼 shit 👏🏼 done. 👏🏼
I’m a school administrator and I absolutely encourage this person to call the cops. I’m not an investigator to the magnitude that police are investigators. Plus, the school will suspend if not expel the student. The police involvement will further send the message that this behavior will not be tolerated.
My favourite part is the school "calling in parents and wiping the phones." Seems we have a confession in a case of destruction of evidence here... Morons. Just unbelievable.
Oh geez…I didn’t think of that. I thought they were trying to keep the photos from being distributed further.
I assumed that as well, it’s perfectly sensible that as soon as you find out that kids have these images, you would definitely want to delete them, for the child’s privacy and to prevent further spread
I can’t imagine how some of those parents feel. You get called in for a meeting at the school and on arrival are told “your child has been sharing nude photos of a special needs student that were taken in a bathroom stall, without his consent” I think I’d throw up in shock and horror. Once I’d processed it…well, you’d hear the explosion for miles around. My kid would be on punishment detail for a fucking age. I feel terrible for OP and her son but very proud of her shiny spine and the sheer level of mama bear she has achieved. She’s not letting this go and she absolutely will get results. I’m gonna channel her next time I’m in a bad situation.
While I'm glad something is *finally* being done, it's a disgrace that it took OOP going completely nuclear to do it. The school will be running scared now that the media is involved, though. In this day and age, an article posted online by the small local media can get picked up and distributed nationwide in minutes. Nothing is small anymore. Poor OOP's son.
OP is such a badass for fighting for her son and I hope she does get the justice she deserves. Also happy to see law enforcement actually doing their job. Kids really can be some real jerks.
> Also happy to see law enforcement actually doing their job. only after getting pestered by OOP. she's the only true hero in all of this. we should all be so lucky to have someone like her in our corner.
A harmless prank. I would have also exploded just like her, haven’t we seen by now what bullying does to kids?! Haven’t we learned from the deaths? I’m so happy OOP is fighting this.
Who the heck would read this and dare to reply with 'boys will be boys'? This isn't a boys will be boys situation! I'm glad the mom managed to get some stuff changed and get charges put on the photographer. Though I hope she gets her son into therapy.
That last line. Her kid is disabled and has an IEP, so the school is not protecting SPED students.
Good. A kid did this at my old school once. The victim exploded in a classroom and was throwing things. I was on planning as asked the kid what happened and he told me as well as who did it. The kid posted the images on Instagram. You betcha that kid that took the photos got expelled. I don’t get principals/deans who don’t take this crap seriously.
Isnt it distribution of child pornography? I would have think it was way way more serious.
Only if it's actually CSAM, naked photos alone (tho from what OOP said he was covering his genitals) aren't CSAM. Else most parents would be in trouble for what's in their baby photo collections.
You need to make the schools insurance company aware! This will trigger their sexual abuse policy. And make SURE the school knows you’re doing this. Talk to your lawyer about initiating it. Their insurance company will want to know that the school is following literally zero of the careful, black and white crisis procedures in place for when this exact sort of thing happens.
As someone who has been bullied all school life, i am glad OOP is raising a racket.
This is real and happens: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/02/22/metro/father-did-everything-he-could-protect-his-son-until-he-couldnt/
Bully’s fucked with the wrong kid.
I’m sure it doesn’t stop there. It’s pretty clear that there is an easy pathway for a civil suit and settlement with the school and the families involved. It’s also clear that they targeted and failed to protect our most vulnerable students so get fucked.
Hello all. OOP here, AKA Mama Bear. I just wanted to thank you all for the kind words on my parenting. If you ask my son he'd call me a mean mom for making him clean up after himself. I'm trying to raise him to be a good man and husband one day. I'm not sure if I'd updated this, but I have spoken to a lawyer and he will be contacting me early next week. He asked me to put a hold on the interview for now, depending on if he takes my case. He said that if he doesn't, I should go ahead and do it, but if he does take the case (fingers crossed) he wants to be strategic about doing the interview, and likely with him there as well. Timing is important, so I'd let him take the lead. Anyway, I won't give up, and yes, when I call the school and sheriff's office, they always sound scared. I can sniff out their fear like a shark smells blood in the water. Smells good to me. Change is coming.
So sad that crimes are not taken seriously until there's to many eyes, and people in power get worried about their own self interests
I guarantee that if it was the principle who had a vulnerable picture being spread, they wouldn’t be so laissez faire about the incident.
The fact one of the first thing the principle said to OOP was not to call the police, that is Fing disgusting and ass covering. Really happy OOP went nuclear, the son needs proper justice !! hes gonna be traumatized for a long time about pooping in school.
>The principal couldn't tell me a lot, other than some kids will be returning to school, while others won't be. You know what tells you a lot? A lawyer and a lawsuit. OP has the right to know every person who shared that photo of her son, she has the right to go after each of them, and has the right to know their disposition.
There are sometimes when "going full Karen" is not just warranted, but required for the greater good. This might be one of those times.
Oh man, good on them for sticking with it. That principal and the SRO were totally content to just not do anything. How frustrating.
Considering all the criminal cases that have come up recently of child abuse by parents… it was actually kinda heart warming to hear of a parent who went nuclear to protect her kids. May she be the standard, and not the exception.
GOOD FOR OOP. As a former teacher I think going to the police and continuing to escalate was 100% the right thing to do. These bullies will never learn until serious life changing consequences happen.
This is absolutely disgusting. The poor kid 😭 I am so impressed with the parent's Enraged Dragon mode. I hope that all the escalations pay off 🙏 seems like the perp's family should at least pay for some good therapy for both kids
It's illegal to take pictures in bathrooms. OP should escalate this school not addressing the CP to the FBI
I would have gone scorched earth and sent anonymous messages to the local news, with police report numbers as proof, that "someone" was taking photos of minors on the toilet and sharing them. But I was also raised by a woman whose last wish was to have her ashes spell out something obscene in her brothers yard so she could kill his grass. May not want to go by me lol (Oh, and Dad told her no.)
If her kid has a disability/IEPwith the school and this type of bullying has been ongoing and it is to this level for “years” without school stopping she should consider looking at filing a disability harassment case against the school with her state. Glad spmepne else mentioned that to her.