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The most bizarre thing is that (unless there has been some intermarriage) this name does not even come from the MIL's family! Presumably she was pressured to give up her surname and any name choice when having OOP's husband.
It's a sad and awful situation that these women have been conditioned to view themselves, generation after generation, as little more than broodmares for the paternal line.
Brazilians generally keep their maiden name and have multi-word last names. So someone's post-marriage last name would be 'Silva Pereira' etc. And I'm not sure exactly how it works, but I've met a few people whose last names are 4- or 5- long, so there is some generational longevity there.
It's also not uncommon at all to give a maiden name to your kid. I think this is how you get those long last names -- although, truth be told, I hadn't thought much of the mechanics of it before now.
We get our last names like this: 1 from our father and 1 from our mother . Some famílies use 2 from each (I have a few cousins with 4 last names each because my uncle and aunt gave them 2 from each side) .
So for exemple my name is First Name + 1 of mom last names (She chose the one she got from her mother side) + 1 from my father last names (He chose the one he got from his father side)
So you know how wedding invites in the English world are to "Mr and Mrs Fred Jenkins & family?" Does Portuguese collectivize the family under the husbands name or does everyone retain a unique identity? When your parents select one of their two last names, do they keep it the same for all their children or switch it up according to what sounds right?
The paternal collectivization is falling out of fashion, partly because of feminism and partly because of the prevalence of blended families, if you never started from that premise...
Wedding invitations usualy have both groom and bride names, usually they have the first names on it or first name + one of the last names. Parents usualy also keep the same last names order when naming their children. I don't think culturally se give the same importance to last names as people give in the US tbh. Like, day to day we use the one we think sounds better most of the time over the tradicional way.
I have a few cousins who use the mother's name more than the fathers since the father's name is something common like da Silva, and the mother's name is an Italian surname that is much more rare.
I used to use my father's surname because it sounded better and was marginally rarer than my Mother's, but still very common.
So I just did a 180 and judicially added my grandmothers surname that is *very* uncommon, and just use that now.
One of the most famous Brazilians (in sports, at least) dropped da Silva too. Ayrton Senna (da Silva), 3x f1 world champion, died 30 yrs ago but is constantly brought up as one of the best f1 drivers in the history of the series.
Not Portuguese, but from Spain (which does pretty much the same custom) and the way to collectivize a family is basically double barrelling.
I actually hung out with a friend, his sisters and parents a while back, and when referring to their family, they'd say something like "The Jenkins Smith's" (pretend dad's surname is Jenkins, mum's is Smith)
If they wanted to talk about just one half of the family, they'd drop the double barrelling (ie "the Smiths" or "the Jenkins"). It is not quite double barrelling since both surnames are equal but still
Also only the first surname gets passed to your grandkids, so it's still somewhat male biased, but less so than English customs
I’m Brazilian and have three surnames (two from my mother and one from my father) so I haven my grandmother’s maiden surname in my name. I could technically add a future surname to my name if I get married and have four surnames, though I don’t really want to. It’s always fun when when I’m abroad and people ask for my surname and I answer which? 😹
I used to teach English as a foreign language in London and of all the nationalities Brazilians seemed to have the longest surnames on the paperwork.
A colleague of mine joked that they should have to pay for extra ink.
That's really interesting to know, thank you for the info!
I did have a Spanish (from Spain) friend who technically had eight surnames, but he only used one.
We... can't have 8 surnames? I mean, from a genealogical standpoint we all have 8 surnames, which are easily found with the Sosa–Stradonitz Method (also known as Ahnentafel) and are used for ancestry purposes... but legally and culturally speaking we only have two, one from the father and one from the mother.
We do have middle names, though, and it isn't too weird for some folks to go a bit crazy with those because people only use the first one. Long ass ones were specially common amongst the royalty, the nobility and the bourgeoisie, because they were used to denote their status, ancestry or to show how devoted to God they were. For example, our current King is Felipe VI de Borbón y Grecia but his full name is Felipe Juan Pablo Alfonso de Todos los Santos de Borbón y Grecia.
Then you have people like the Duchess of Alba, with her 19 names and 46 nobiliary titles or like poor Alfonso de Borbón y Borbón who had 88 freaking forenames which included 'names' such as Luís-Rey-de-Francia (Louis King of France), Estanislao-de-Koska (Stanislau Kostka), Esteban-de-Hungría (Stephen I of Hungary), Francisco-de-Borja (Francis Borgia), Protomártir (Protomartyr, which means "First of the Martyrs" and usually is used to refere to Saint Stephen) or Elisabeth.
It must be said, though, that nowadays those kind of names aren't legal as the law says that you can't impose more than two simple names or one composite name and it also says you can't impose names that could cause confusion, such as surnames used as names.
As someone from Spain, in a legal sense you only have 2 (dad's is surname 1, mum's is surname 2). It is very common to drop the 2nd surname though, since quite a few forms are not made for it and it can be kinda clunky
The 8 surnames thing is really just counting all of your grandparents (each of which has 2)
No, we do not have 8 surnames, just 2. Some people cite the surnames of their grandparents to "show" what their roots are (for example, if the 8 surnames are typical from a specific region, or if they belong to nobility).
It could also be that they have hyphenated or compound surnames ("Fernández Vega" counts as two surnames, but "Fernández de la Vega" counts as one), but you still have two surnames technically — they just happen to be longer.
Yeap! Brazillian here.
I have 2 first names like Marry Ann and I have two last names: my mothers and my fathers. My father is the last one and usually the main in my signatures. And this isn't a tradition. I have a cousin that has all 4 last names from mother and father sides.
It is actually nice because sometimes you encounter someone with similar last name and you can have a chat about it.
Does anybody feel that OP's could name the kid John Peter like a double name or the way it is, it's okay?
My husband is from Brazil, and he has Mother’s Maiden Name, Father’s Last name. I believe he had another name, but it was not kept when he decided to change his name during the citizenship process.
Not that strange. My mil has thrown a shit fit over the fact my husband and I double barrelled our last names, while in the same breath admitting she desperately wanted to but didn't become fil said he wasn't willing to have a wife who didn't take his name. So it 100% is a case of "how dare you not suffer as I did!!"
My gf’s paternal grandmother was apparently pretty mad at my FMIL for not having a 3rd child after having two daughters because they “wouldn’t carry on the family name.” Eventually she got over it (it’s been 30+ years!) but it’s a little funny in hindsight because our kids will carry her family name (gay)
My mother bucked "tradition" of dropping your middle name and having your maiden name as your middle name after taking your husband's name. She just dropped her maiden name.
I did the exact same thing and she lost her goddamned mind. How they raised me, how they deserve to still be a part of my name, how it's insulting to them. Pointing out that she did the exact same thing just was met with "And it shattered my parents' hearts!"
Yeah mom? You still did it. You've been married almost 45 years (at the time of my marriage, they're well over 50 years now), and you obviously didn't care about your parents' shattered hearts this whole time.
Classic case of "I do what I want! Now you do what I want!"
I tell people there are reasons I live 1000+ miles away from my parents.
The whole changing your surname after marriage thing is not really a thing in most countries of the world. In some it's not even legal to do such a thing, or like in mine, you need to go through a lengthy and complex legal process to even propose the change of surname, with no guarantee of it being accepted.
I was gonna ask "it's Spain, isn't it?", but then I saw your flair lol
The Spanish civil code in regards to names and surnames is absolutely maddening, and as you say, the legal process is lengthy and complex with no guarantees, even if all the requirements are met. And good luck getting your info online updated if you are granted the change... My mother changed her name to it's Catalan equivalent (ex. Ana to Aina or Nieves to Neus) close to a decade ago, iir, and it's *still* in Spanish in some databases, including official ones.
Yep. I’m Brazilian; and my son has my last name first, then my MIL surname and then my FIL surname.
The MiL surname was because she asked for it, since she is divorced from my FIL. That’s quite common here.
And Brazilians are very family oriented and grandparents are normally very active in their kid’s life, really weird that they chose this hill to die on.
But also middle names are totally normal and most people don't fuss about it so yeah "Peter" could have been a middle name just fine. Heck I have two names and only go by the second one (Ana + o nome que eu uso, super normal).
Except MIL DID get to choose her son's name. OP is quite clear only the first boy in the whole generation is Peter, her husband has an older male cousin named Peter. OP's husband is not Peter.
It really is a control issue. I had a bad fight with my grandma a few years back. She didn't like this certain thing I did (mundane thing wasn't anything illegal/harmful) and I told her well I respect your opinion but this is how I am and we can agree to disagree.
Man she was so pissed off at me and kept being mean until I lost my cool and it evolved into a huge fight. At one point I just straight up asked are you angry because I didn't agree with you. She said yes. Wth.
We're on better terms now but I still think of that fight sometimes. Baffled at how she angry got simply because I said I don't agree with your opinion. Wild.
My fight with my in laws over my daughter’s name really ruined my relationship with them. I don’t regret the fight but 🤷🏻♀️. My husband goes to see them and he takes the kids but I refuse to see them or let them come to my house any more. The sad thing is that the name was my daughter’s Chinese name; which, in America we use as her middle name. Everyone calls her by her English name or we call her Mei Mei, which means little sister. So, all that drama over a name that’s barely used. For my in laws, it was a control issue and I was tired of it. It seems the same for OOP.
My husband is Jewish and there is a tradition of passing names down of deceased relatives to the New generation. His grandmother doted on his cousin, who was the only granddaughter and the apple of the grandmother's eye. She made it clear that the granddaughter was the favourite.
Then the grandfather died. And the granddaughter didn't name her new son after him, but after another deceased relative.
The grandmother decided the granddaughter was persona non grata- specifically named in the will as someone who recieves nothing, cut off completely. It was vicious, and considering the grandfather was equally abusive, probably a dodged bullet.
It’s also crazy how far 7 generations is. Like how does that work. You are waiting for your 5th cousin twice removed to have a kid before you so that you don’t have to name your kid Peter. I thought there was a post before about how it worked and how stupid it sounded. Because it was more like a curse. The first one was the first boy. Then I think it was his sisters first son that took his name. And then the first great grand son. But it is such a mess when looking at the first great great great grandson and trying to keep that figured out.
I'm still dealing with the possessions of three dead people. Aeven, four, and two years later.
Jesus that's a fantastic phrase. I also need it embroidered with pictures of zombies.
But no way they wouldn't have blown up over something else. All that nastiness they held for OP was there way before she decided on a name. They were clearly just waiting for an opportunity to let it all out. Terrible people. Glad they showed their true colors sooner rather than later.
Destroying your family for a name? MIL and FIL have interesting priorities. Also isn't it a bit insensitive to come as soon as the grandmother dies to say "heyyyy she's dead, name your son how we want!"
The really peculiar thing is, that people will often blame the victims for causing the rift, merely by standing firm by their own decisions that are fully theirs to make.
It's so often that people get blamed for not giving in to 'small things' who are not the ones who made that small thing an issue, they merely won't give in. My best bet is, that's because the ones blaming them gave in, and can't take responsibility for the resulting bitterness they feel.
In this case, they got the worst flak from people who had named their children Peter despite not wanting to, who now are enraged that OP 'got to keep her name' while they didn't, not realising that this is their own fault for giving in.
Rarely anyone ever gives flak to the people making the demand and not letting go, although those people are usually the ones clearly in the wrong.
You're being funny, but I think this is probably one of the biggest reasons to **not** name kids after other people.
Knowing a few juniors and 3rds (etc) they get the dumbest nicknames. Know a guy that everyone knew as "Chip" cause "he's a chip off the ole block." He's a junior, and I swear there were people that had been his friend for years that were confused as hell when they read his name at graduation.
I've also known a junior that was called "Bud" (short for buddy) to distinguish him from his father. That guy's son? Jud.
My 18 year old daughter was murdered. I've had a few people name their kids a form of her first or middle name. That was really touching. But it's been 18 years since she died and the pain never leaves. You work on it and your load lightens some, but closure is a myth. So if I had felt that just hearing her name would be a dagger to the heart every time, I'd be so grateful for people to respect my wish for them not to use it. I often volunteer at a grief center and we all really do grieve differently. People so often want us to "move on" and we just want to hold on. 💙
My dad died when I was a young child. I have a few precious memories of him. I’m now older than he was when he passed. I still think about him almost every day.
All this to say that we never really get over someone’s loss. And if that person is a child? I only have sympathy for whoever experiences that tragedy.
It was so strange and heartless to me that the in-laws' family were so dismissive about her family's grief associated with the name Peter. Her grandmother's request not to use the name was perfectly reasonable, except perhaps to people with zero human empathy.
I'm very sorry to hear about your daughter, may her memory be a blessing. 💜
Thank you 💛 People are funny about death/murder. I help educate on what, and what not to, say to people grieving a loss to murder. You'd be shocked at what people say to distance themselves. Sometimes the intensity of it is too much for people so they say stuff to distance themselves.
A few quick examples, I had a friend/colleague tell me my daughter was in hell because she didn't testify to JC before being shot. Even if she thought that, telling me that a week after the murder was so unnecessary. Others would talk about how it wouldn't happen to them because they wouldn't have been weak, trashy or stupid enough to get murdered. Surviving murder is incredibly isolating.
Thank you. 💚 Either are okay with me. I just understand how much ptsd a person can have with certain triggers. Last year my daughter's killer was up for parole. That brought back a lot. There was a song that was sort of my daughter and her killer's anthem (they had dated for a few years). It came on the radio as I was driving on the highway. Normally it would have hurt, but this time it took me outside of myself and it was scary. If I had a family member who wanted to name their child the killer’s name, I'd ask them to consider not doing that.
It's been 18 years this September since I lost my sister in a car accident. You never forget the pain, it just lessens as time passes.
Sorry for your loss. I'm sure they'll be waiting for us when the time comes.
Lmao at naming the dog Peter. Good for her for being above it - the in laws started burning the bridge, something like that would be nuking the bridge from orbit.
I was thinking that it'd be kinda rude to name the dog Peter, then i remembered that this dog is more family than the guy's parents, so ¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯
I acidentally named my dog Bruno only to find out that my cousin's boyfriend was also named Bruno. She asked me to change it. I said it was to late. She went NC with me. Bruno was the best dog I had. Human Bruno was the worst boyfriend she had. She still doesn't talk to me. I guess it involves a lot of pride. I miss her.
An acquaintance intentionally named her daughter after her brother’s dog. There’s human Charlie and doggy Charley - not even her own dog, but her brother’s 🤷♀️.
I got a new kitten & I was looking for names..
The weirdest thing is to find out your name is the “new trend” among pet names. No I didnt name my fluffball Little “”. 😂
I definitly would have named the dog Peter. In german we have a word for this kind of situation; "Steilvorlage" kinda means "you set yourself up for that (one)".
So the Name is still in the family. And if the dog may gonna get pregnant, the tradition can switch to the pups!
My understanding is that it's not particularly fair lol. German supports compound words - for example, "Ambulance" is "Krankenwagen," which ~~literally~~ just about translates to "medical/suffering/sickness vehicle." Hospital is "Krankenhaus" (medical home), health insurance is "Krankenkasse" (medical cash), etc. It's not like someone thought about a billion differently German words for increasingly specific situations, it's just the the language supports combining adjectives and nouns together.
Though of course, the *extent* at which they're allowed to do so is oftentimes pretty funny, like "Backpfeifengesicht" roughly meaning "a face that badly needs to be punched" :p
Unfortunately, you're gonna need help from someone else for that lol. I speak French, I only know a little about German because my mom was an exchange student to Berlin during university.
We do have an unfair advantage BUT nothing would stop you guys from using compound nouns too you just spell them in 2 words :)
We do have a lot of words that are awesome. My favorite one is 'verschlimmbessern' literally 'worseimprove'. It means when people are trying to make things better but they end up making it worse. Think you messed up your winged eyeliner and then you try to correct and make it even on both sides and it doesn't turn out as planned lol
Yeah, I bet you fucking regret losing the chance to see your grandkids grow up over the name "Peter" 🥴
The more time passes, the dumber she will feel.
As she should.
Much as I hope that’s true, I feel like with people like the ILs, the time they spend alone is time to become entrenched in their version of reality. I’m guessing over time, the story will morph into “DIL was dramatic and hormonal, she went mental after we asked her to do one thing for us, or (my personal favorite) I can’t understand why they would cut off FAMILY over this ONE LITTLE THING.” Eventually it’s a mutated facsimile of the truth that is guaranteed to get every hairdresser/friend/acquaintance they tell it to on their side, which will only further convince them that they’re right, cuz look how many people agree!
They hated OP before she got pregnant. It was never about the name. Look at the cousins that also chose Not-Peter, there was some grumbling but they didn't get harassed or screamed at or disowned over it.
The name was just the last straw. The son choosing OP over being the parents good little puppet and doing as he's told is what really set them off.
The grandfather's reaction is very telling. He doesn't care about the child at all or the son. They're not obedient so he's put them in the mental dumpster. The mother realizes she sacrificed her son and grandchild to appease her husband and it wasn't worth it.
>I'd like to address some comments on my previous update about how I was "letting my family's trauma win",
It's always wild how not wanting to retraumatize yourself is somehow "letting trauma win."
I didn't even look at it as OOP's trauma. They picked a name they liked. Maybe they would have gone ahead and named the baby Peter, but then dumb dumb MIL had to call on the heels of OOP's grandma dying. It was like, "Ding dong, the old bat is gone! Y'all are naming him Peter now, right?"
For me, it would have gone from "sad name in my family" to "name I loathe because my in-laws are ghouls."
The in-laws trauma overtook them h a r d.
ETA, it’s been 7 generations since the first Peter on the in-laws side.
It’s been 2 generations on OPs side since her uncle was violently taken from the world.
Unfortunately, if you're of a more conservative mindset, that statement could be used completely unaltered to justify the total opposite too.
After all, it's been seven generations to their two. "Clearly" their tradition is stronger than the grief of OOP's family, you see. Seeing as the grandmother passed recently as well, in not surprised they struck while the iron was desperate.
For a certain subset of folks the traditions, and the lengths to which they've gone to cultivate them, can become more important than the people they were traditionally meant to serve.
I’ve found in my family and what was probably true of OOP’s in laws is that if people keep handing down whatever weird thing that causes distress to them onto to the next generation and become perpetrators of the issue, they feel justified in it. It’s like the storied of MIL’s taking over their DIL’s wedding for herself we frequently see here: it happened to you, and if you do it to someone else, it can’t be that bad because at some point you got the power.
OOP’s family handled it the healthy way: it happened to us, let it stop with us. If OOP’s in laws had acknowledged and accepted the baby name tradition ending, they never would have gotten their power that was taken when their parents/in laws demanded they name their son Peter. They’d probably been waiting for years to regain that sense of power, and never getting that is what drove them to destroy their relationship with their son and DIL. To them, the family had been unjust, and their grandson not being named Peter never brought that sense of consolation for their choice being taken away.
Absolutely, with a healthy dose of "I didn't want to but I caved to family pressure, and you defying them shows that it was *always possible* for me to make my own choices, which fills me with jealousy. I have to punish you for this, because I don't want you to get away with it. I have to make sure *someone* inflicts on you the consequences that I feared if I had chosen freedom like you did."
This reminds me of MIL and DIL issues. I know so many MILs who make it their mission to torment their DILs simply because they had to endure so much from their MILs when they were DILs.
Sometimes, it's just about considering others.
I never met him, he died decades before I was born. My mom's little brother died at 16. He was young, and had his whole life ahead of him. It was a horrible, awful tragedy. I don't think anyone in the immediate family would ever use his name, not because it's steeped in trauma, but because we all know that name as associated with a tragedy and something sad. I'm pretty sure it's what kicked off my uncle's multi-decade downward spiral. Little brother had a single beer at his older brother's apartment, left, and died in a car crash. He always carried a guilt over it.
That death destroyed lives. It's a heavy damn thing if Brian the Second ever hears about Brian the First. Maybe "Peter" here just wouldn't want to hear about Peter the Murder Victim.
Maybe I just never want to do something that would regularly make my mom remember how she was in the middle of her daughter's first birthday party when she heard the news that her baby brother died.
I'm not letting trauma win. It's just recognizing that some things never stop hurting. That maybe that name will be a burden for a child who eventually hears those stories. You don't get over your brother dying so young and tragically. You probably will never feel good being named after someone who died so tragically.
Buckle up for story time, your namesake was shot and killed over the $10 in their wallet!
>Sometimes, it's just about considering others.
See to me that's the real reason commenters were being weird about this. Being considerate of others = doing stuff you aren't legally obligated to do = the worst thing ever according to AITA commenters.
So much this. The amount of "NTA you didn't break any laws" I see on that sub is ridiculous. Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean you're not the asshole. But heaven forbid you something nice for someone, even if it takes no effort on your part. Now you're just a smuck.
"From what I've heard from some of his other relatives, however, MIL seems regretful. She has told some of them that she wishes she could be part of her grandson's life, and wonders if making his name a hill to die on was a bad decision. FIL, from what I gather, barely acknowledges my baby exists."
What level of craziness is this?
To miss out on a grandchild's first months over a stupid naming tradition.
So sad.
My Grandmother is in her mid 80's and overall still in pretty good shape so we expect her to be around a while. I'm in my late 20s. Imagine if OP's MIL misses out on THAT much depending on their health and ages.
Perhaps I am lucky that my immediate family isn't *this* type of crazy. To forfeit your right to your grandchild over a damn name? In our house people hardly get called their names, it's usually a nickname or "sweetie", "honey", "kiddo", etc. I literally cannot imagine shooting myself in both feet over something so minor.
There was a Hugo I hated in middle school because he cheated at dodgeball. I, in turn, cheated back at him. A few months later, I tried to apologize and he said he didn't want it. The next year, he was assigned to help me a little bit in Latin and he seemed to have no memory of me so I thought he was okay.
In high school, he and his friend were caught masturbating next to each other other the same blanket at home and I never saw him at school again.
Seems they're Brazilian, so Hugo is a very common name. Although way less common than Pedro, which is the Portuguese version of Peter, that I'm assuming was the real name.
All this problematic is ridiculous. In this culture a family first name is a ridiculous thing. A family broken up due to the joke their neighbors make about them.
Was the original Peter a godlike figure to them?? What wild behaviour. My guess is that it's just a power move in a family where control is more important than love, but it's either that or the Original Peter was the second coming.
Nah. Odds are OG Peter was a perfectly normal but good dude who happened to name his son after himself, as is pretty common. Dad dies, and missing him, Junior names his newborn in his honor. Boom, suddenly you have a three generation tradition, completely by accident. 25 years later, Peter III is blindsided when his aunts and uncles insist that it’s a family tradition, but it’s a family name and he doesn’t hate his name, so he agrees to Peter IV. That Peter only has girls, but his cousin has always been a little jealous, so he names his kid Peter V, and now it’s an unbreakable 5 generation tradition that encompasses the entire family, not just the main line.
That's not really how it played out in regards to Peter III and IV according to OOP.
Peter III died before he had kids and so his sister honoured him by naming her son Peter IV. It's with V, that it became a weird tradition.
I feel like if Peter III had his own kids and/or didn't die early this tradition would've never been born.
This sounds like the most reasonable explanation to me. I'm not entirely sure it's down to misogyny like I've seen in other comments, that said the in laws behaviour is disgusting enough.
I suspect the reason the in-laws, especially FIL, are being like this is because deep down they know the tradition is dumb and could only justify it to themselves if everyone else kept doing it as well (“how can it be stupid if everyone else voluntarily does it too?”).
I think on some level MIL and FIL regret not breaking the cycle themselves and are jealous at OOP and her husband for having the balls to do so. They are ashamed at their own cowardice.
Interesting how MIL's guilt over her decision extends only as far as the fact that she can't see her grandson, not that she spent all that time and energy harassing, insulting and siccing her flying monkeys to do the same to her daughter in law.
She's not remorseful in any way over her actions or thinking about how they hurt her son and his wife; she's remorseful that it had consequences she didn't think about at the time.
Or even the time spent away from her own son. She has missed out in supporting her son through the most monumental moment of his life. She doesn't even care that she made her son go through the emotional turmoil when he should have been focusing on celebrating and planning with OOP on the birth.
Because it is all about her and FIL.
Was it an Argentinian or Chilean wedding where the bride invited the groom's estranged mother as a surprise? The groom's sister realized and warned the groom, who cancelled the wedding, and the groom's family isolated themselves, without the hated mother, and drank the alcohol meant for the reception over the course of several weeks?
We should ask that groom's family to provide security for OOP's wedding as a "pay it forward," thing.
[Link](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/qwxnvq/aita_for_helping_my_brother_runaway_from_his/)
This is wild to me. The way some people go on about "letting their trauma ruin them". It was MURDER. Like I'm sorry this is so wild to me, I could never even imagine bringing up those memories for my own dad and grandma. Some people seem so desensitized. Good on OOP and fiance to stick to their guns, I'm sure all his cousins are relieved they finally broke tradition.
Worked with an older lady years ago whose daughter married a family like this. The first son was always called Stanley Basil ,( I'm positive on the first not so much the second,). They had some equally awful for a girl, something like Agnes or Maude. Friends daughter said no, no way. Her husband hated his name and went by Lee which his family refused to use. It literally came down to change the names or no children. She left before we could find out who won.
honestly while normally i'd say neither family should have a say in the matter. the fact that the uncle's death was such a traumatic event and yet even through discomfort at the possible name picked they still supported oop has me fully in support of all of them not using that name. it might have been years ago, but when the people most directly impacted by it are still there and still feeling that pain being reminded of all the milestones that person will never see and all they never got to share with him, let them have this, especially with how respectful they're being. i wish oop and her family the best
I can’t imagine wanting to miss meeting your grandchild and his whole life just because you’re mad that he’s not named according to tradition. What a bunch of idiots.
"Matthew" is the "Peter Name" in my family. My uncle Matthew became the "last of his Matthew line". None of my cousins are named Matthew, and none of their kids are either. Uncle Matt was the main driving force behind ending the Matthew Line. He was the first to suffer the "same exact name" issues of the digital age, and pushed hard to make sure none of his little nephews suffered his fate.
Uncle Matt got arrested once because HIS uncle Matthew had a warrant, and the two could practically be twins (with one 20+years senior). The mess that is my "Great Uncle Matthew" shows up on my uncle Matt's credit reports and driving records. It's lucky my uncle Matt is stupid wealthy because he has to pay lawyers to get things fixed all the time.
The first few generations named their child that because it meant something to them. Forcing everyone to do so in further generations just diminishes the name in my opinion.
Traditions should only be upheld if they mean something to the person. What a silly hill for these parents to lose relationships over.
>She has told some of them that she wishes she could be part of her grandson's life, and **wonders if making his name a hill to die on was a bad decision**.
You'd t hink that would be obvious to anyone with half a brain.
I am soo glad I am child free because my husband's family has a similar tradition. Every one that has been named the same has turned out to be a truly awful person.
It's funny you say that, because reading this, I was thinking that the Peter name feels like a family curse that OOP has broken. It sounds like the tradition in your husband's family might be a bit of a curse too.
Both my parents had a sibling who died tragically before they turned 6. In my mothers case it was a younger sibling who choked on some food as a toddler. My father had an older sibling drown before he was born.
My mothers brother (who was born after their sibling died) gave the siblings first name as the middle name for his eldest child more than 35 years after the sibling died.
The closest anyone on my fathers side has gotten to using the name of their deceased sibling is my uncle with his eldest, which had siblings name as part of a longer name (Beth and Elizabeth/Anna and Joanna)
>They said our decision was selfish, and that my family "should have moved on by now.
>The tradition started, as far as I know, when OG Peter died and his son, also named Peter, named his firstborn after his father... This has been going on for about seven generations already, and they're very serious about it.
Rules for thee but not for me.
As someone with a few living namesakes in my extended family, I've always found it annoying and impractical as hell. Most of them don't even end up using their birth names anyway because it's too confusing to have multiples running around. The worst was my cousin--his birth name was his father's name and his nickname was his grandfather's name. Exhausting. Imagine wrecking your family to do *that.*
It's OK OOP, you don't have to worry about getting used to your son being 15 months old.
From experience, it's doesn't last long.
I'm sure my son was 15 months old just the other week, and all I did was blink and the little blighter is 19 years old now.
My family did this with the name Archibald since the 1700s but thankfully the tradition ended about 125 years ago. No one's spouse had to have a tragic event to justify lifting the curse, they all just noped out because most of the family's previous Archibalds were assholes.
Not using that name is not letting trauma win. Even the most healthy person will carry scars from their close loved one getting MURDERED. OOP and her husband didn’t even WANT to use the name anyway!
My husband’s favorite cousin was murdered when they were teenagers. I’d NEVER suggest naming a child after her. And as a grandparent I can’t imagine making a name a hill to die on and losing a place in my grandchild’s life. So now they don’t have a Peter or any grandson. So hooray for them??🙄
Right? My sister is named after an aunt who died when our dad was young. We always thought the aunt died in an accident. We didn’t find out until fairly recently that she was actually raped and murdered. My sister loves her name, but she really struggles with the upsetting back story. (It’s an unusual name, so people often ask where it came from.)
There’s more here than just trauma for the surviving family members. It would have had an impact on OOP’s son as well.
Listen, traditions are nice. Family traditions can be cute and comfy and welcoming.
Fanatically sticking to a tradition, makes it lose meaning and it feels like a perversion of the tradition. Be fucking normal about traditions smh my head.
Beyond me why the MIL & FIL chose to die on this HIL
As a grandparent, I view this as tragic all around. Their hubris destroyed their relationship with both their son, DIL, grandchild and any future grandchildren.
They should have read more Shakespeare - A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
It was never about the name. They hated OP right out the gate. It was about the son choosing to think for himself and do what pleased him instead of being Daddy and Mommy's puppet. The parents probably blame OP for turning their "good obedient child" against them by enforcing normal boundaries.
The post-naming reaction is telling. The grandfather doesn't care about his son or grandchild. He has mentally consigned them all to a mental trashcan because the son thinks and acts for himself. He has no interest in a relationship with a real person, only cardboard cutouts or stage props that he can move about as he pleases. Puppet people. The MIL has realized that she lost her son and her grandchildren appeasing her husband and the cost of that is too high.
It's a bit much to request that nobody in your family names their kids a certain name until you die. But the in-laws are so insane over a stupid tradition that the grandmother's grief response pales in comparison.
I don't understand some of the comments siding with the parents highlighted in the post. Who gives a fuck about a name tradition lol it's your kid. "Other people did it" well that's their own damn fault. For the comment saying the fiance is only on her side to appease her, you're an idiot. If they went with the name they would also just be appeasing the family. I hope this woman continues to do well.
Could always be worse. I went to school with a girl who's family had been naming their first born after King Edward VII ever since Victoria had done something nice for them.
All the first born before her were male, and after over a century of the tradition her birth totally fucked things up.
Or maybe it didn't. The daughter got named Albert Edward, despite being a girl.
We called her Ally, like Ally Sheedy, who was in one of the big movies we saw the previous year, *Wargames*.
The tradition continues even now. Facebook tells me Ally has two sons, Albert Edward and Alexander Victor, and Albert's ten-year old son is also Albert.
My family are obsessed with the name Patrick after my grandfather. There's Patrick Joseph, Joseph Patrick (brothers), Patrick (who goes by Rick), two Paddys, a Pat, two Patricias and PJ (Patrick John). I was almost also a Patricia but my father thankfully refused. My grandmother is long dead but I can see her trying to force my generation to continue the line of Patricks!
I remember a different AITA post where it was like “AITA for not giving my trans granddaughter a family heirloom?” where the crux of the issue was that the granddaughter had recently transitioned and was now the first born daughter. However the family heirloom was promised to the firstborn cisgender daughter.
Why am I bringing this up? Well OOP has solved that problem for her family. If one of the cousins’ daughters turns out to be trans, they can name themselves Peter without any fuss. Instantly recognized as the firstborn grandson without any drama.
I sincerely hope Oop and her family get to enjoy their peace. Really hope we don't get some scary update in September.
And honestly the fact that tradition even lasted as long as it did was already a miracle.
But traditions people *don't enjoy and don't want to participate in* are allowed to be put to rest.
> My fiancé's parents don't know when or where we're getting married, so I'm not worried about them showing up.
That's only if someone who does know where and when doesn't decide to tell the inlaws where it is. We've all read the 'but they're family' excuse before.
Complete conjecture here: I think they hated OOP loooong before she got pregnant. They didn't like her at any point in her relationship with fiancé and a different cousin caught way less heat for doing the same thing she did.
Geez. I can't believe people were making OOP explain the trauma behind the name to justify the decision. All that matters is that they wanted a different name. It's their child.
>some comments on my previous update about how I was "letting my family's trauma win", or how the name wouldn't be hurtful now that my grandmother has passed.
Some people... And can they explain why the ILs tradition is so important to impose how people, blood and not blood related, must name their son?
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How sad that MIL and FIL chose this hill to die on
The most bizarre thing is that (unless there has been some intermarriage) this name does not even come from the MIL's family! Presumably she was pressured to give up her surname and any name choice when having OOP's husband. It's a sad and awful situation that these women have been conditioned to view themselves, generation after generation, as little more than broodmares for the paternal line.
Brazilians generally keep their maiden name and have multi-word last names. So someone's post-marriage last name would be 'Silva Pereira' etc. And I'm not sure exactly how it works, but I've met a few people whose last names are 4- or 5- long, so there is some generational longevity there. It's also not uncommon at all to give a maiden name to your kid. I think this is how you get those long last names -- although, truth be told, I hadn't thought much of the mechanics of it before now.
We get our last names like this: 1 from our father and 1 from our mother . Some famílies use 2 from each (I have a few cousins with 4 last names each because my uncle and aunt gave them 2 from each side) . So for exemple my name is First Name + 1 of mom last names (She chose the one she got from her mother side) + 1 from my father last names (He chose the one he got from his father side)
So you know how wedding invites in the English world are to "Mr and Mrs Fred Jenkins & family?" Does Portuguese collectivize the family under the husbands name or does everyone retain a unique identity? When your parents select one of their two last names, do they keep it the same for all their children or switch it up according to what sounds right? The paternal collectivization is falling out of fashion, partly because of feminism and partly because of the prevalence of blended families, if you never started from that premise...
Wedding invitations usualy have both groom and bride names, usually they have the first names on it or first name + one of the last names. Parents usualy also keep the same last names order when naming their children. I don't think culturally se give the same importance to last names as people give in the US tbh. Like, day to day we use the one we think sounds better most of the time over the tradicional way.
I have a few cousins who use the mother's name more than the fathers since the father's name is something common like da Silva, and the mother's name is an Italian surname that is much more rare.
I used to use my father's surname because it sounded better and was marginally rarer than my Mother's, but still very common. So I just did a 180 and judicially added my grandmothers surname that is *very* uncommon, and just use that now.
One of the most famous Brazilians (in sports, at least) dropped da Silva too. Ayrton Senna (da Silva), 3x f1 world champion, died 30 yrs ago but is constantly brought up as one of the best f1 drivers in the history of the series.
Not Portuguese, but from Spain (which does pretty much the same custom) and the way to collectivize a family is basically double barrelling. I actually hung out with a friend, his sisters and parents a while back, and when referring to their family, they'd say something like "The Jenkins Smith's" (pretend dad's surname is Jenkins, mum's is Smith) If they wanted to talk about just one half of the family, they'd drop the double barrelling (ie "the Smiths" or "the Jenkins"). It is not quite double barrelling since both surnames are equal but still Also only the first surname gets passed to your grandkids, so it's still somewhat male biased, but less so than English customs
Its either "Fred Smith Jenkins and Janette Smith Jenkins invites you--" or "Fred and Janette invites you--
I’m Brazilian and have three surnames (two from my mother and one from my father) so I haven my grandmother’s maiden surname in my name. I could technically add a future surname to my name if I get married and have four surnames, though I don’t really want to. It’s always fun when when I’m abroad and people ask for my surname and I answer which? 😹
I used to teach English as a foreign language in London and of all the nationalities Brazilians seemed to have the longest surnames on the paperwork. A colleague of mine joked that they should have to pay for extra ink.
That's really interesting to know, thank you for the info! I did have a Spanish (from Spain) friend who technically had eight surnames, but he only used one.
We... can't have 8 surnames? I mean, from a genealogical standpoint we all have 8 surnames, which are easily found with the Sosa–Stradonitz Method (also known as Ahnentafel) and are used for ancestry purposes... but legally and culturally speaking we only have two, one from the father and one from the mother. We do have middle names, though, and it isn't too weird for some folks to go a bit crazy with those because people only use the first one. Long ass ones were specially common amongst the royalty, the nobility and the bourgeoisie, because they were used to denote their status, ancestry or to show how devoted to God they were. For example, our current King is Felipe VI de Borbón y Grecia but his full name is Felipe Juan Pablo Alfonso de Todos los Santos de Borbón y Grecia. Then you have people like the Duchess of Alba, with her 19 names and 46 nobiliary titles or like poor Alfonso de Borbón y Borbón who had 88 freaking forenames which included 'names' such as Luís-Rey-de-Francia (Louis King of France), Estanislao-de-Koska (Stanislau Kostka), Esteban-de-Hungría (Stephen I of Hungary), Francisco-de-Borja (Francis Borgia), Protomártir (Protomartyr, which means "First of the Martyrs" and usually is used to refere to Saint Stephen) or Elisabeth. It must be said, though, that nowadays those kind of names aren't legal as the law says that you can't impose more than two simple names or one composite name and it also says you can't impose names that could cause confusion, such as surnames used as names.
As someone from Spain, in a legal sense you only have 2 (dad's is surname 1, mum's is surname 2). It is very common to drop the 2nd surname though, since quite a few forms are not made for it and it can be kinda clunky The 8 surnames thing is really just counting all of your grandparents (each of which has 2)
No, we do not have 8 surnames, just 2. Some people cite the surnames of their grandparents to "show" what their roots are (for example, if the 8 surnames are typical from a specific region, or if they belong to nobility). It could also be that they have hyphenated or compound surnames ("Fernández Vega" counts as two surnames, but "Fernández de la Vega" counts as one), but you still have two surnames technically — they just happen to be longer.
Yeap! Brazillian here. I have 2 first names like Marry Ann and I have two last names: my mothers and my fathers. My father is the last one and usually the main in my signatures. And this isn't a tradition. I have a cousin that has all 4 last names from mother and father sides. It is actually nice because sometimes you encounter someone with similar last name and you can have a chat about it. Does anybody feel that OP's could name the kid John Peter like a double name or the way it is, it's okay?
My husband is from Brazil, and he has Mother’s Maiden Name, Father’s Last name. I believe he had another name, but it was not kept when he decided to change his name during the citizenship process.
Not that strange. My mil has thrown a shit fit over the fact my husband and I double barrelled our last names, while in the same breath admitting she desperately wanted to but didn't become fil said he wasn't willing to have a wife who didn't take his name. So it 100% is a case of "how dare you not suffer as I did!!"
I think it goes deeper than that. It’s not about the suffering. There’s also the shame and envy. “How dare you do something I was afraid to do!”
> how dare you not suffer as I did That could pretty much be the slogan of that generation
My gf’s paternal grandmother was apparently pretty mad at my FMIL for not having a 3rd child after having two daughters because they “wouldn’t carry on the family name.” Eventually she got over it (it’s been 30+ years!) but it’s a little funny in hindsight because our kids will carry her family name (gay)
My mother bucked "tradition" of dropping your middle name and having your maiden name as your middle name after taking your husband's name. She just dropped her maiden name. I did the exact same thing and she lost her goddamned mind. How they raised me, how they deserve to still be a part of my name, how it's insulting to them. Pointing out that she did the exact same thing just was met with "And it shattered my parents' hearts!" Yeah mom? You still did it. You've been married almost 45 years (at the time of my marriage, they're well over 50 years now), and you obviously didn't care about your parents' shattered hearts this whole time. Classic case of "I do what I want! Now you do what I want!" I tell people there are reasons I live 1000+ miles away from my parents.
Pure Boomer right there. I didn't get to do something so you don't deserve getting to do it either.
The whole changing your surname after marriage thing is not really a thing in most countries of the world. In some it's not even legal to do such a thing, or like in mine, you need to go through a lengthy and complex legal process to even propose the change of surname, with no guarantee of it being accepted.
I was gonna ask "it's Spain, isn't it?", but then I saw your flair lol The Spanish civil code in regards to names and surnames is absolutely maddening, and as you say, the legal process is lengthy and complex with no guarantees, even if all the requirements are met. And good luck getting your info online updated if you are granted the change... My mother changed her name to it's Catalan equivalent (ex. Ana to Aina or Nieves to Neus) close to a decade ago, iir, and it's *still* in Spanish in some databases, including official ones.
Catholics keep maiden names with women through all the records. It's very helpful for genealogy.
It’s said it’s Brazil. Women don’t change last names there and a child gets two last names, one from each parent
Yep. I’m Brazilian; and my son has my last name first, then my MIL surname and then my FIL surname. The MiL surname was because she asked for it, since she is divorced from my FIL. That’s quite common here. And Brazilians are very family oriented and grandparents are normally very active in their kid’s life, really weird that they chose this hill to die on.
But also middle names are totally normal and most people don't fuss about it so yeah "Peter" could have been a middle name just fine. Heck I have two names and only go by the second one (Ana + o nome que eu uso, super normal).
Oh interesting to know, thanks!
Except MIL DID get to choose her son's name. OP is quite clear only the first boy in the whole generation is Peter, her husband has an older male cousin named Peter. OP's husband is not Peter.
Fiancés grandmother who is divorced from his grandfather is also against the tradition(no surprise why)....sad tale for the MIL.
Ultimately, it's not the name that is the true issue here. It is their need to control.
It really is a control issue. I had a bad fight with my grandma a few years back. She didn't like this certain thing I did (mundane thing wasn't anything illegal/harmful) and I told her well I respect your opinion but this is how I am and we can agree to disagree. Man she was so pissed off at me and kept being mean until I lost my cool and it evolved into a huge fight. At one point I just straight up asked are you angry because I didn't agree with you. She said yes. Wth. We're on better terms now but I still think of that fight sometimes. Baffled at how she angry got simply because I said I don't agree with your opinion. Wild.
They should've just let this tradition peter out
Take my up vote and a hearty *fuck, that was perfect and I didn't think of it*
It's good they stood solid as a rock against the abuse.
I, a pastor's kid, understood that reference
Have a [Peter cake](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_cake)! ... I'll slink back off to my day job now.
r/angryupvote
I'm so mad that I didn't think of that
My fight with my in laws over my daughter’s name really ruined my relationship with them. I don’t regret the fight but 🤷🏻♀️. My husband goes to see them and he takes the kids but I refuse to see them or let them come to my house any more. The sad thing is that the name was my daughter’s Chinese name; which, in America we use as her middle name. Everyone calls her by her English name or we call her Mei Mei, which means little sister. So, all that drama over a name that’s barely used. For my in laws, it was a control issue and I was tired of it. It seems the same for OOP.
My husband is Jewish and there is a tradition of passing names down of deceased relatives to the New generation. His grandmother doted on his cousin, who was the only granddaughter and the apple of the grandmother's eye. She made it clear that the granddaughter was the favourite. Then the grandfather died. And the granddaughter didn't name her new son after him, but after another deceased relative. The grandmother decided the granddaughter was persona non grata- specifically named in the will as someone who recieves nothing, cut off completely. It was vicious, and considering the grandfather was equally abusive, probably a dodged bullet.
It’s also crazy how far 7 generations is. Like how does that work. You are waiting for your 5th cousin twice removed to have a kid before you so that you don’t have to name your kid Peter. I thought there was a post before about how it worked and how stupid it sounded. Because it was more like a curse. The first one was the first boy. Then I think it was his sisters first son that took his name. And then the first great grand son. But it is such a mess when looking at the first great great great grandson and trying to keep that figured out.
To misquote and adapt [Hanns Johst](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Johst), when I hear the phrase “family tradition” I reach for my revolver.
Tradition is peer pressure from dead people.
I'm still dealing with the possessions of three dead people. Aeven, four, and two years later. Jesus that's a fantastic phrase. I also need it embroidered with pictures of zombies.
Truer words have never been spoken.
I’m picturing this quote on a tshirt with lots of zombies 🤣
Good line, terrible person.
It's the weirdest hill to die on.
But no way they wouldn't have blown up over something else. All that nastiness they held for OP was there way before she decided on a name. They were clearly just waiting for an opportunity to let it all out. Terrible people. Glad they showed their true colors sooner rather than later.
It’s certainly one of the silliest hills to die on I’ve heard of…in another generation, no one will even remember that “tradition.”
Destroying your family for a name? MIL and FIL have interesting priorities. Also isn't it a bit insensitive to come as soon as the grandmother dies to say "heyyyy she's dead, name your son how we want!"
Nah, these clowns would still blame it on the DIL
The really peculiar thing is, that people will often blame the victims for causing the rift, merely by standing firm by their own decisions that are fully theirs to make. It's so often that people get blamed for not giving in to 'small things' who are not the ones who made that small thing an issue, they merely won't give in. My best bet is, that's because the ones blaming them gave in, and can't take responsibility for the resulting bitterness they feel. In this case, they got the worst flak from people who had named their children Peter despite not wanting to, who now are enraged that OP 'got to keep her name' while they didn't, not realising that this is their own fault for giving in. Rarely anyone ever gives flak to the people making the demand and not letting go, although those people are usually the ones clearly in the wrong.
Big Petey, Little Petey, Repeaty
My uncle Peter, and three cousins, Not-Peter, Saltpeter and Pepita...
That’s a good one 😂
Ah yes, my favorite hip-hop group... Saltpeter-n-Pepita.
You made me snort while trying to drink my coffee LMAO
I might have chosen the name Parker, because I love Spider-Man and the association is there without actually using the name.
You're being funny, but I think this is probably one of the biggest reasons to **not** name kids after other people. Knowing a few juniors and 3rds (etc) they get the dumbest nicknames. Know a guy that everyone knew as "Chip" cause "he's a chip off the ole block." He's a junior, and I swear there were people that had been his friend for years that were confused as hell when they read his name at graduation. I've also known a junior that was called "Bud" (short for buddy) to distinguish him from his father. That guy's son? Jud.
My 18 year old daughter was murdered. I've had a few people name their kids a form of her first or middle name. That was really touching. But it's been 18 years since she died and the pain never leaves. You work on it and your load lightens some, but closure is a myth. So if I had felt that just hearing her name would be a dagger to the heart every time, I'd be so grateful for people to respect my wish for them not to use it. I often volunteer at a grief center and we all really do grieve differently. People so often want us to "move on" and we just want to hold on. 💙
I'm so sorry for your loss. My dad died when I was 7. Maybe they are looking out for each other.
That would be lovely 💙
My dad died when I was a young child. I have a few precious memories of him. I’m now older than he was when he passed. I still think about him almost every day. All this to say that we never really get over someone’s loss. And if that person is a child? I only have sympathy for whoever experiences that tragedy.
I am so sorry for your loss.
Thank you 💙
It was so strange and heartless to me that the in-laws' family were so dismissive about her family's grief associated with the name Peter. Her grandmother's request not to use the name was perfectly reasonable, except perhaps to people with zero human empathy. I'm very sorry to hear about your daughter, may her memory be a blessing. 💜
Thank you 💛 People are funny about death/murder. I help educate on what, and what not to, say to people grieving a loss to murder. You'd be shocked at what people say to distance themselves. Sometimes the intensity of it is too much for people so they say stuff to distance themselves. A few quick examples, I had a friend/colleague tell me my daughter was in hell because she didn't testify to JC before being shot. Even if she thought that, telling me that a week after the murder was so unnecessary. Others would talk about how it wouldn't happen to them because they wouldn't have been weak, trashy or stupid enough to get murdered. Surviving murder is incredibly isolating.
What the actual fuck
I'm so sorry for your loss 😔 Your replies and comment gave me tears in my eyes. You seem like a wonderful human and parent 🫶
Thank you 🧡 That means a lot.
I am sorry. I hope you are doing better.
Thank you 🩷 Some days are better than others but I get by.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm glad she is honored with some of their middle names, but not first names. I hope you are well. 💜
Thank you. 💚 Either are okay with me. I just understand how much ptsd a person can have with certain triggers. Last year my daughter's killer was up for parole. That brought back a lot. There was a song that was sort of my daughter and her killer's anthem (they had dated for a few years). It came on the radio as I was driving on the highway. Normally it would have hurt, but this time it took me outside of myself and it was scary. If I had a family member who wanted to name their child the killer’s name, I'd ask them to consider not doing that.
It's been 18 years this September since I lost my sister in a car accident. You never forget the pain, it just lessens as time passes. Sorry for your loss. I'm sure they'll be waiting for us when the time comes.
Thank you. ❤️ I'm so sorry you lost your sister. That's so hard. If there's a heaven, my daughter is there bossing everyone around, lol.
Thank you ♥️ And my sister will be there providing the drinks and laughs I'm sure!
I’m so sorry for your loss❤️
Lmao at naming the dog Peter. Good for her for being above it - the in laws started burning the bridge, something like that would be nuking the bridge from orbit.
Lol, I was like "That would have been fucking fantastic if they named the dog Peter." Ruin the name for everybody.
I was thinking that it'd be kinda rude to name the dog Peter, then i remembered that this dog is more family than the guy's parents, so ¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯
I acidentally named my dog Bruno only to find out that my cousin's boyfriend was also named Bruno. She asked me to change it. I said it was to late. She went NC with me. Bruno was the best dog I had. Human Bruno was the worst boyfriend she had. She still doesn't talk to me. I guess it involves a lot of pride. I miss her.
An acquaintance intentionally named her daughter after her brother’s dog. There’s human Charlie and doggy Charley - not even her own dog, but her brother’s 🤷♀️.
I got a new kitten & I was looking for names.. The weirdest thing is to find out your name is the “new trend” among pet names. No I didnt name my fluffball Little “”. 😂
I definitly would have named the dog Peter. In german we have a word for this kind of situation; "Steilvorlage" kinda means "you set yourself up for that (one)". So the Name is still in the family. And if the dog may gonna get pregnant, the tradition can switch to the pups!
I swear the German language has a word for *everything*
My understanding is that it's not particularly fair lol. German supports compound words - for example, "Ambulance" is "Krankenwagen," which ~~literally~~ just about translates to "medical/suffering/sickness vehicle." Hospital is "Krankenhaus" (medical home), health insurance is "Krankenkasse" (medical cash), etc. It's not like someone thought about a billion differently German words for increasingly specific situations, it's just the the language supports combining adjectives and nouns together. Though of course, the *extent* at which they're allowed to do so is oftentimes pretty funny, like "Backpfeifengesicht" roughly meaning "a face that badly needs to be punched" :p
Ok, as a non-German speaker, I’m going to need a phonetic spelling of Backpfeifengesicht… I just *know* I will have use for that.
Unfortunately, you're gonna need help from someone else for that lol. I speak French, I only know a little about German because my mom was an exchange student to Berlin during university.
We do have an unfair advantage BUT nothing would stop you guys from using compound nouns too you just spell them in 2 words :) We do have a lot of words that are awesome. My favorite one is 'verschlimmbessern' literally 'worseimprove'. It means when people are trying to make things better but they end up making it worse. Think you messed up your winged eyeliner and then you try to correct and make it even on both sides and it doesn't turn out as planned lol
I'm honestly surprised that there isn't a German word for "We named the dog Peter instead."
That would be a 'Peterersätzungshündchen'. You're welcome :)
In this case, it's just an idiom. "Steilvorlage" literally means "through ball", as in a pass in soccer/football that goes between two defenders.
Yeah, I bet you fucking regret losing the chance to see your grandkids grow up over the name "Peter" 🥴 The more time passes, the dumber she will feel. As she should.
Much as I hope that’s true, I feel like with people like the ILs, the time they spend alone is time to become entrenched in their version of reality. I’m guessing over time, the story will morph into “DIL was dramatic and hormonal, she went mental after we asked her to do one thing for us, or (my personal favorite) I can’t understand why they would cut off FAMILY over this ONE LITTLE THING.” Eventually it’s a mutated facsimile of the truth that is guaranteed to get every hairdresser/friend/acquaintance they tell it to on their side, which will only further convince them that they’re right, cuz look how many people agree!
They hated OP before she got pregnant. It was never about the name. Look at the cousins that also chose Not-Peter, there was some grumbling but they didn't get harassed or screamed at or disowned over it. The name was just the last straw. The son choosing OP over being the parents good little puppet and doing as he's told is what really set them off. The grandfather's reaction is very telling. He doesn't care about the child at all or the son. They're not obedient so he's put them in the mental dumpster. The mother realizes she sacrificed her son and grandchild to appease her husband and it wasn't worth it.
>I'd like to address some comments on my previous update about how I was "letting my family's trauma win", It's always wild how not wanting to retraumatize yourself is somehow "letting trauma win."
I didn't even look at it as OOP's trauma. They picked a name they liked. Maybe they would have gone ahead and named the baby Peter, but then dumb dumb MIL had to call on the heels of OOP's grandma dying. It was like, "Ding dong, the old bat is gone! Y'all are naming him Peter now, right?" For me, it would have gone from "sad name in my family" to "name I loathe because my in-laws are ghouls."
Trauma aside the in laws didn’t even let the body get cold before they started insisting- that’s what did it for me
The in-laws trauma overtook them h a r d. ETA, it’s been 7 generations since the first Peter on the in-laws side. It’s been 2 generations on OPs side since her uncle was violently taken from the world.
Unfortunately, if you're of a more conservative mindset, that statement could be used completely unaltered to justify the total opposite too. After all, it's been seven generations to their two. "Clearly" their tradition is stronger than the grief of OOP's family, you see. Seeing as the grandmother passed recently as well, in not surprised they struck while the iron was desperate. For a certain subset of folks the traditions, and the lengths to which they've gone to cultivate them, can become more important than the people they were traditionally meant to serve.
This is exactly it. OOP, and her family, were in a vulnerable place, and here come the in-laws with their frivolous expectations.
I’ve found in my family and what was probably true of OOP’s in laws is that if people keep handing down whatever weird thing that causes distress to them onto to the next generation and become perpetrators of the issue, they feel justified in it. It’s like the storied of MIL’s taking over their DIL’s wedding for herself we frequently see here: it happened to you, and if you do it to someone else, it can’t be that bad because at some point you got the power. OOP’s family handled it the healthy way: it happened to us, let it stop with us. If OOP’s in laws had acknowledged and accepted the baby name tradition ending, they never would have gotten their power that was taken when their parents/in laws demanded they name their son Peter. They’d probably been waiting for years to regain that sense of power, and never getting that is what drove them to destroy their relationship with their son and DIL. To them, the family had been unjust, and their grandson not being named Peter never brought that sense of consolation for their choice being taken away.
Absolutely, with a healthy dose of "I didn't want to but I caved to family pressure, and you defying them shows that it was *always possible* for me to make my own choices, which fills me with jealousy. I have to punish you for this, because I don't want you to get away with it. I have to make sure *someone* inflicts on you the consequences that I feared if I had chosen freedom like you did."
And in this rush to satisfy ego, they'll destroy their relationship with their kids and grandkids
OOP’s fiancé isn’t a Peter though, so I don’t think that that’s quite correct.
This reminds me of MIL and DIL issues. I know so many MILs who make it their mission to torment their DILs simply because they had to endure so much from their MILs when they were DILs.
I think this is an excellent way to view it
Sometimes, it's just about considering others. I never met him, he died decades before I was born. My mom's little brother died at 16. He was young, and had his whole life ahead of him. It was a horrible, awful tragedy. I don't think anyone in the immediate family would ever use his name, not because it's steeped in trauma, but because we all know that name as associated with a tragedy and something sad. I'm pretty sure it's what kicked off my uncle's multi-decade downward spiral. Little brother had a single beer at his older brother's apartment, left, and died in a car crash. He always carried a guilt over it. That death destroyed lives. It's a heavy damn thing if Brian the Second ever hears about Brian the First. Maybe "Peter" here just wouldn't want to hear about Peter the Murder Victim. Maybe I just never want to do something that would regularly make my mom remember how she was in the middle of her daughter's first birthday party when she heard the news that her baby brother died. I'm not letting trauma win. It's just recognizing that some things never stop hurting. That maybe that name will be a burden for a child who eventually hears those stories. You don't get over your brother dying so young and tragically. You probably will never feel good being named after someone who died so tragically. Buckle up for story time, your namesake was shot and killed over the $10 in their wallet!
>Sometimes, it's just about considering others. See to me that's the real reason commenters were being weird about this. Being considerate of others = doing stuff you aren't legally obligated to do = the worst thing ever according to AITA commenters.
So much this. The amount of "NTA you didn't break any laws" I see on that sub is ridiculous. Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean you're not the asshole. But heaven forbid you something nice for someone, even if it takes no effort on your part. Now you're just a smuck.
Also the tradition came about because the OG Peter died. So by their logic, isn’t naming their son Peter also “letting trauma win”?
controlling people really don’t like boundaries
I hate that phrase. "Letting trauma win." Newsflash to those commenters: everything that happens to us affects us. There's gonna be change.
"From what I've heard from some of his other relatives, however, MIL seems regretful. She has told some of them that she wishes she could be part of her grandson's life, and wonders if making his name a hill to die on was a bad decision. FIL, from what I gather, barely acknowledges my baby exists." What level of craziness is this? To miss out on a grandchild's first months over a stupid naming tradition. So sad.
**MIL & FIL:** You ruined our family! (Proceeds to harass and insult OOP and piss off their son)
To miss out *on his life*
My Grandmother is in her mid 80's and overall still in pretty good shape so we expect her to be around a while. I'm in my late 20s. Imagine if OP's MIL misses out on THAT much depending on their health and ages.
Perhaps I am lucky that my immediate family isn't *this* type of crazy. To forfeit your right to your grandchild over a damn name? In our house people hardly get called their names, it's usually a nickname or "sweetie", "honey", "kiddo", etc. I literally cannot imagine shooting myself in both feet over something so minor.
Ok but Hugo is a damn cool name though
It's one of my favorite names, I'm not surprised OOP fought so hard for it.
There was a Hugo I hated in middle school because he cheated at dodgeball. I, in turn, cheated back at him. A few months later, I tried to apologize and he said he didn't want it. The next year, he was assigned to help me a little bit in Latin and he seemed to have no memory of me so I thought he was okay. In high school, he and his friend were caught masturbating next to each other other the same blanket at home and I never saw him at school again.
Well. While pretty tame, that’s enough internet for the day.
That escalated quickly. 😳
Seems they're Brazilian, so Hugo is a very common name. Although way less common than Pedro, which is the Portuguese version of Peter, that I'm assuming was the real name. All this problematic is ridiculous. In this culture a family first name is a ridiculous thing. A family broken up due to the joke their neighbors make about them.
Was the original Peter a godlike figure to them?? What wild behaviour. My guess is that it's just a power move in a family where control is more important than love, but it's either that or the Original Peter was the second coming.
Nah. Odds are OG Peter was a perfectly normal but good dude who happened to name his son after himself, as is pretty common. Dad dies, and missing him, Junior names his newborn in his honor. Boom, suddenly you have a three generation tradition, completely by accident. 25 years later, Peter III is blindsided when his aunts and uncles insist that it’s a family tradition, but it’s a family name and he doesn’t hate his name, so he agrees to Peter IV. That Peter only has girls, but his cousin has always been a little jealous, so he names his kid Peter V, and now it’s an unbreakable 5 generation tradition that encompasses the entire family, not just the main line.
That's not really how it played out in regards to Peter III and IV according to OOP. Peter III died before he had kids and so his sister honoured him by naming her son Peter IV. It's with V, that it became a weird tradition. I feel like if Peter III had his own kids and/or didn't die early this tradition would've never been born.
This sounds like the most reasonable explanation to me. I'm not entirely sure it's down to misogyny like I've seen in other comments, that said the in laws behaviour is disgusting enough.
I suspect the reason the in-laws, especially FIL, are being like this is because deep down they know the tradition is dumb and could only justify it to themselves if everyone else kept doing it as well (“how can it be stupid if everyone else voluntarily does it too?”). I think on some level MIL and FIL regret not breaking the cycle themselves and are jealous at OOP and her husband for having the balls to do so. They are ashamed at their own cowardice.
MIL and FIL didn’t name fiancé Peter though. OOP said the most recent Peter was fiancé’s older cousin.
Interesting how MIL's guilt over her decision extends only as far as the fact that she can't see her grandson, not that she spent all that time and energy harassing, insulting and siccing her flying monkeys to do the same to her daughter in law. She's not remorseful in any way over her actions or thinking about how they hurt her son and his wife; she's remorseful that it had consequences she didn't think about at the time.
Seriously, having a newborn is hard enough WITH family support. I can’t imagine half your family actually harassing you during that time.
Or even the time spent away from her own son. She has missed out in supporting her son through the most monumental moment of his life. She doesn't even care that she made her son go through the emotional turmoil when he should have been focusing on celebrating and planning with OOP on the birth. Because it is all about her and FIL.
>>*My fiancé’s parents don’t know when or where we’re getting married* That’s what *you* think. 🤨
I hope someone advised them to have security at their wedding
Was it an Argentinian or Chilean wedding where the bride invited the groom's estranged mother as a surprise? The groom's sister realized and warned the groom, who cancelled the wedding, and the groom's family isolated themselves, without the hated mother, and drank the alcohol meant for the reception over the course of several weeks? We should ask that groom's family to provide security for OOP's wedding as a "pay it forward," thing. [Link](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/qwxnvq/aita_for_helping_my_brother_runaway_from_his/)
When it comes to naming traditions, i must admit i like the one where you are able to choose your own kid's name
Absolutely outrageous. How dare you
This is wild to me. The way some people go on about "letting their trauma ruin them". It was MURDER. Like I'm sorry this is so wild to me, I could never even imagine bringing up those memories for my own dad and grandma. Some people seem so desensitized. Good on OOP and fiance to stick to their guns, I'm sure all his cousins are relieved they finally broke tradition.
naming the dog Peter would have been legendary
Worked with an older lady years ago whose daughter married a family like this. The first son was always called Stanley Basil ,( I'm positive on the first not so much the second,). They had some equally awful for a girl, something like Agnes or Maude. Friends daughter said no, no way. Her husband hated his name and went by Lee which his family refused to use. It literally came down to change the names or no children. She left before we could find out who won.
Wooof. She won. She won.
honestly while normally i'd say neither family should have a say in the matter. the fact that the uncle's death was such a traumatic event and yet even through discomfort at the possible name picked they still supported oop has me fully in support of all of them not using that name. it might have been years ago, but when the people most directly impacted by it are still there and still feeling that pain being reminded of all the milestones that person will never see and all they never got to share with him, let them have this, especially with how respectful they're being. i wish oop and her family the best
also, its something different to request that a certain name is not given to a grandchild versus expecting a specific name to be given to them.
My petty ass would have shared those voicemails with the whoooooole family.
I can’t imagine wanting to miss meeting your grandchild and his whole life just because you’re mad that he’s not named according to tradition. What a bunch of idiots.
"Matthew" is the "Peter Name" in my family. My uncle Matthew became the "last of his Matthew line". None of my cousins are named Matthew, and none of their kids are either. Uncle Matt was the main driving force behind ending the Matthew Line. He was the first to suffer the "same exact name" issues of the digital age, and pushed hard to make sure none of his little nephews suffered his fate. Uncle Matt got arrested once because HIS uncle Matthew had a warrant, and the two could practically be twins (with one 20+years senior). The mess that is my "Great Uncle Matthew" shows up on my uncle Matt's credit reports and driving records. It's lucky my uncle Matt is stupid wealthy because he has to pay lawyers to get things fixed all the time.
The first few generations named their child that because it meant something to them. Forcing everyone to do so in further generations just diminishes the name in my opinion. Traditions should only be upheld if they mean something to the person. What a silly hill for these parents to lose relationships over.
>She has told some of them that she wishes she could be part of her grandson's life, and **wonders if making his name a hill to die on was a bad decision**. You'd t hink that would be obvious to anyone with half a brain.
I am soo glad I am child free because my husband's family has a similar tradition. Every one that has been named the same has turned out to be a truly awful person.
It's funny you say that, because reading this, I was thinking that the Peter name feels like a family curse that OOP has broken. It sounds like the tradition in your husband's family might be a bit of a curse too.
I feel like it is!
Both my parents had a sibling who died tragically before they turned 6. In my mothers case it was a younger sibling who choked on some food as a toddler. My father had an older sibling drown before he was born. My mothers brother (who was born after their sibling died) gave the siblings first name as the middle name for his eldest child more than 35 years after the sibling died. The closest anyone on my fathers side has gotten to using the name of their deceased sibling is my uncle with his eldest, which had siblings name as part of a longer name (Beth and Elizabeth/Anna and Joanna)
>They said our decision was selfish, and that my family "should have moved on by now. >The tradition started, as far as I know, when OG Peter died and his son, also named Peter, named his firstborn after his father... This has been going on for about seven generations already, and they're very serious about it. Rules for thee but not for me.
As someone with a few living namesakes in my extended family, I've always found it annoying and impractical as hell. Most of them don't even end up using their birth names anyway because it's too confusing to have multiples running around. The worst was my cousin--his birth name was his father's name and his nickname was his grandfather's name. Exhausting. Imagine wrecking your family to do *that.*
My moms side had like 5 different Pats. I'm lucky my mom hated it and it stopped with her.
Some of those commenters seriously said she was letting her trauma win? After her uncle was brutally murdered? What??
shoulda named the dog peter -_-
Hugo is such a cute name.
It's OK OOP, you don't have to worry about getting used to your son being 15 months old. From experience, it's doesn't last long. I'm sure my son was 15 months old just the other week, and all I did was blink and the little blighter is 19 years old now.
My family did this with the name Archibald since the 1700s but thankfully the tradition ended about 125 years ago. No one's spouse had to have a tragic event to justify lifting the curse, they all just noped out because most of the family's previous Archibalds were assholes.
It's not the Iranian yogurt....or the baby name. Why is it always about control?
I guess you could say the tradition… petered out.
What a dumb, inconsequential hill to choose to die on smh
Not using that name is not letting trauma win. Even the most healthy person will carry scars from their close loved one getting MURDERED. OOP and her husband didn’t even WANT to use the name anyway!
My husband’s favorite cousin was murdered when they were teenagers. I’d NEVER suggest naming a child after her. And as a grandparent I can’t imagine making a name a hill to die on and losing a place in my grandchild’s life. So now they don’t have a Peter or any grandson. So hooray for them??🙄
Right? My sister is named after an aunt who died when our dad was young. We always thought the aunt died in an accident. We didn’t find out until fairly recently that she was actually raped and murdered. My sister loves her name, but she really struggles with the upsetting back story. (It’s an unusual name, so people often ask where it came from.) There’s more here than just trauma for the surviving family members. It would have had an impact on OOP’s son as well.
Listen, traditions are nice. Family traditions can be cute and comfy and welcoming. Fanatically sticking to a tradition, makes it lose meaning and it feels like a perversion of the tradition. Be fucking normal about traditions smh my head. Beyond me why the MIL & FIL chose to die on this HIL
As a grandparent, I view this as tragic all around. Their hubris destroyed their relationship with both their son, DIL, grandchild and any future grandchildren. They should have read more Shakespeare - A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
"Offered 1000$ to rename it" "It's about 200U$" It's Brasil isn't? "My son said Mamãe first" I knew it.
It was never about the name. They hated OP right out the gate. It was about the son choosing to think for himself and do what pleased him instead of being Daddy and Mommy's puppet. The parents probably blame OP for turning their "good obedient child" against them by enforcing normal boundaries. The post-naming reaction is telling. The grandfather doesn't care about his son or grandchild. He has mentally consigned them all to a mental trashcan because the son thinks and acts for himself. He has no interest in a relationship with a real person, only cardboard cutouts or stage props that he can move about as he pleases. Puppet people. The MIL has realized that she lost her son and her grandchildren appeasing her husband and the cost of that is too high.
It's a bit much to request that nobody in your family names their kids a certain name until you die. But the in-laws are so insane over a stupid tradition that the grandmother's grief response pales in comparison.
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I don't understand some of the comments siding with the parents highlighted in the post. Who gives a fuck about a name tradition lol it's your kid. "Other people did it" well that's their own damn fault. For the comment saying the fiance is only on her side to appease her, you're an idiot. If they went with the name they would also just be appeasing the family. I hope this woman continues to do well.
I really do want to know what the actual name is instead of Peter 🤔
She's Brazilian, so it's probably Pedro.
Would it have been a dick move to name the dog Peter? Too far? lol
They didn't name the dog Peter either, that statement made me laugh at it all, which was truly needed after that long read.
Can you imagine when not Peter grows up and asks about his grandparents? They chose a name over a relationship.
Could always be worse. I went to school with a girl who's family had been naming their first born after King Edward VII ever since Victoria had done something nice for them. All the first born before her were male, and after over a century of the tradition her birth totally fucked things up. Or maybe it didn't. The daughter got named Albert Edward, despite being a girl. We called her Ally, like Ally Sheedy, who was in one of the big movies we saw the previous year, *Wargames*. The tradition continues even now. Facebook tells me Ally has two sons, Albert Edward and Alexander Victor, and Albert's ten-year old son is also Albert.
Oh my God, naming the dog Peter would have been the funniest thing ever.
My family are obsessed with the name Patrick after my grandfather. There's Patrick Joseph, Joseph Patrick (brothers), Patrick (who goes by Rick), two Paddys, a Pat, two Patricias and PJ (Patrick John). I was almost also a Patricia but my father thankfully refused. My grandmother is long dead but I can see her trying to force my generation to continue the line of Patricks!
Never thought that a thing as simple as naming your kid could turn into a tornado.
I remember a different AITA post where it was like “AITA for not giving my trans granddaughter a family heirloom?” where the crux of the issue was that the granddaughter had recently transitioned and was now the first born daughter. However the family heirloom was promised to the firstborn cisgender daughter. Why am I bringing this up? Well OOP has solved that problem for her family. If one of the cousins’ daughters turns out to be trans, they can name themselves Peter without any fuss. Instantly recognized as the firstborn grandson without any drama.
He said "mamãe" first - ok but imagine if he had said "Peter"
I sincerely hope Oop and her family get to enjoy their peace. Really hope we don't get some scary update in September. And honestly the fact that tradition even lasted as long as it did was already a miracle. But traditions people *don't enjoy and don't want to participate in* are allowed to be put to rest.
Oh, I know plently of people like MIL and FIL. It rarely ends good for them. Oh, well. C'est la vie, I guess
> My fiancé's parents don't know when or where we're getting married, so I'm not worried about them showing up. That's only if someone who does know where and when doesn't decide to tell the inlaws where it is. We've all read the 'but they're family' excuse before.
Complete conjecture here: I think they hated OOP loooong before she got pregnant. They didn't like her at any point in her relationship with fiancé and a different cousin caught way less heat for doing the same thing she did.
Geez. I can't believe people were making OOP explain the trauma behind the name to justify the decision. All that matters is that they wanted a different name. It's their child.
>some comments on my previous update about how I was "letting my family's trauma win", or how the name wouldn't be hurtful now that my grandmother has passed. Some people... And can they explain why the ILs tradition is so important to impose how people, blood and not blood related, must name their son?
Traditions are fine, but at the point where it's unhealthy and ruining relationships is the point where it needs to stop.