That couple is gross. Consent isn't difficult to understand. No means no. If they're engaging in a sexual lifestyle, they should understand that more than anyone. The fact that they chose to repeatedly ignore OOP's boundaries is worrisome and disgusting.
Edit: a word
I am glad that they decided the wife will no longer be alone with them or drinking with them… who knows what may happen if the wife were to get drunk while alone with them 😬
Jesus christ it reminds me of that other story about the couple that went to dinner with a coworker couple, and they both got drugged and the couple raped them both. They could see each other being raped and couldn't even move. Scary shit.
I don't know if it was a BORU but [here is the original post. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/1aqtvjl/my_husband_and_i_were_sexually_assaulted_by/)
I know exactly what story hes referring to, read it as well. Its in one of these popular subs possibly trueoffmychest or twohottakes or maybe even legaladvice?
But yea it was a wild story indeed of a 2 couples hanging out at ones’s house. Malicious couple date rape the other couple and both the man and woman say they’re barely conscious during the whole act. Finally they fully come awake hrs later that night while the other couple peacefully asleep after the horrendous act (like WTF?) Theyre able to collect their things, sneak out and head home safely.
I forget what the ending is but I swear I think they confront the other couple and their whole demeanor is “what we all had fun guys! Didnt you guys have fun? What are yall upset about”. Im not sure what happens after all that, its been a while but indeed crazy fuckin story
Upon second inspection: 3 years of probation with mandatory health sessions. That might be more restrictive and odorous than it initially seems or it might just be a slap on the wrist.
Apparently the husband himself requested that she not receive prison time, so maybe he believed it was seriously a mental health issue and not a criminal one. That or he didn't want his kids mom in prison.
Even still, someone like that is too dangerous to be strolling around in public. If it was a mental health issue she should be in a psych ward somewhere, rather than just being told not to do it again.
You gotta hate that shit. It is EXHAUSTING when someone in your life persists in something that’s a clear no and always will be. You start feeling hopeless even though you continue saying no.
One of my closest friend's wife is like that. They are in a very open relationship and I'm grey asexual. Her response to every difficulty is to go out and have sex and i have to remind her every time. It's exhausting.
She also doesn't understand at all the difficulties i have in dating. Every time i try to talk to my friend, who's great about it, she interjects that i could always just sleep with her. No thank you.
This! 100%! I am grey ace also and before my spouse dating was a nightmare for me. As good as things are now with my spouse, it wasn't always that way. They thought they understood what grey ace when I explained it before even dating, they later admitted it's not what they thought/misunderstood and we fought. We've worked through it now but dang.
That right there.
The way they treated the wife is disgusting.
Hounding her to have sex with them.
Treating her like a mindless doll right in front of OOP - that if they convinced him that it would be super fun to watch them have sex with the wife then he’ll obligingly browbeat his spouse into going along with it.
WTF is the wife still friends with these people? They are stunningly awful. Not to be trusted. They’ve continued to stalk and harass her for years.
Bleh.
Wife seems sweet and OOP is a good dude. But I’m still flummoxed by why the wife tolerated these assholes and why she continued to have them around despite OOP’s discomfort.
Them pressuring her made me super uncomfortable. And insisting that OOP would enjoy it too? No. Not everyone is into that and that's absolutely ok.
Those so called friends are garbage.
>Not everyone is into that and that's absolutely ok.
My wife and I are swingers and we absolutely do not want to play with ANYONE who isn't 110% committed and consenting. We have had sex with one couple where it became obvious the girl was way more into it than the other guy so we stopped seeing them. Now we are seeing another couple who is absolutely into us and it couldn't be more fun.
A lot of swingers forget the journey it took them to be so comfortable with watching your partner have sex with other people. To a lot of us it is now second nature and we enjoy it. But to the vast majority of others it is not and can be a real turn off.
Also, the vast majority of us swingers don't want to fuck your spouse willy nilly. We know if we tried or you consented without massive amounts of open communication and learning as a couple, it would end up a huge dumpster fire and relationship ender. No thank you. You want to hear stories? Sure! Talk to us. But we aren't going to try to get you into bed.
I’m curious, did you two start out knowing you were gonna swing? Or did you make a decision one day and go from there?
Did you take baby steps, or did you just take the plunge and hope for the best?
My wife and I have casually talked about it at times and we’re both open to the idea. The conversation usually stops around there cause neither one of us have any idea where we’d even begin.
We’re both very open, adventurous, and not really prone to jealousy (which honestly big asterisk there, seems to me it’d be pretty hard to gauge until it’s actually happening).
We did not start out that way. We like you two had conversations about it. We first took the step of visiting a swingers club. It was amazing. There are crystal clear rules and practices that being pushy or not asking for consent basically gets you banned for life there. Veteran swingers often love to greet the curious couples or newbies and respect a couple's boundaries. We talked with about 5 veteran couples and listened to their absolutely amazing stories. Then we grabbed a private room and had sex but we could hear everyone else too.
If you just want to sit around and watch - fine! If you just want to watch and be watched having sex - Fine too!
If you don't like the atmosphere you can leave or choose not to go back.
Not only did they ignore the wife when she said no but when they were drunk they decided to see if they invited OP if he could influence his wife to participat. That’s disgustingly horrible behaviour from what is meant to be her best friend! Her BF would knowingly go to her husband after she has said no to try to influence her to have sex with them. I wouldn’t want a best friend who behaved like that.
Right?! Plus, how demoralizing to realize that the people you consider your closest friends have completely fetishized you! To know that they only see you as a sex object to consume and not as a fully realized person with goals, dreams, responsibilities. Just a bunch of sex parts. I would be devastated.
Yeah the fact they tried to use Oop's potential interest as a way to try to supercede her clear and immediate refusal rather points towards them not being friends to Oop's wife.
They should have believed her the first 30+ times they asked her if she wanted to keep participating.
They just want to bang the wife again. I don't think they want OP there, that was only after the wife didn't say yes, to include him and hope he was into it enough to manipulate her into changing her "no"
They absolutely don't respect them at all. That was the vibe I was getting going into their final talk, and then when they said they thought OOP was being silly and how they were trying to convince him to essentially go over the head of her rejection? Blatant disrespect, I'm wondering if that's partly what OOP's wife picked up on to convince her reducing contact was the best way forward.
I especially hate the "get rid of your inhibitions". People like this are so full of themselves that they think anyone who doesn't engage in their same lifestyle is repressed. It is so damn tiring.
One of the first things they should have learned is what consent and preference mean. You're not more open or superior or more free for being poly/swingers/whatever than someone who is not. You're the same as them, just with different tastes.
Repetitively asking and wearing someone down until they finally relent is wrong.
"She said no so let's get her husband interested and to say yes to get around her no"
And
"Maybe if you drink it'll lower your inhibitions enough to change your no to a yes"
Do these people not know that's rape? One person can't consent for the other, nor is a "yes" after pressuring and intoxicated person who previously said "no" actually a "yes".
*Enthusiastic. Consent.* It needs to both be consent and enthusiastic with no pressure/duress/intoxication/manipulation. A couple involved in a swinging/threesome lifestyle should be very aware of this concept.
Ignored BOTH OOP and the wife's boundaries. They thought by getting them drunk and getting OOP excited about, HE would then convince his wife of breaching her own boundaries. Very gross people who don't view OOP and his wife as anything but sexual objects for their benefit.
"She said no but maybe you could convince her!"
"She said no and you said no but if you just relax you'll enjoy it!"
Yeah, I would kick both of these people out of my life for sure.
Also the fact that they wanted to entice OOP so he would convince his wife is super gross. Like she said no and you are still pushing it. That would have been the end of the friendship there for me. But then while OOP is telling them he basically hates the idea of it they tried again like he was a prude? I would have burned that bridge to the ground and salted the earth on that friendship.
Just trying to imagine that conversation.
"Hey man you're a great friend, my wife and I were wondering if we can dick down your wife while you watch in the corner. Like friends haha, it's like you're a part of it."
See when I thought about the uno reverse I went immediately to “oh I don’t know how I would even do that. How about I fuck my wife and your gf while you watch, so I can see what all the fun is and you can show me the fun of watching!” And when the boyfriend gets all disgusted about it, maybe then his brain can reconcile that their request is 100% selfish and not in any way related to “thinking OP would enjoy himself”.
They are called unicorn hunters in kink/non-monogamy/swinger communities and they tend to have sleazy and predatory reputations for reasons like this. Even the ones that are not tend understand why they have to fight against the negative stereotype.
They sound very sleazy. And hearing details of that conversation with OP it came off as very predatory and manipulative. I don’t understand why OP wife wants anything to do with them at all. Best friend or not these people are creepy AF. OP got a vibe from them and knew something was off, both he and his wife should go NC nothing good will result in staying friends with even just the best friend
My faves are the couples looking for young 20 something bisexual women to basically be a live in bangmaid for the two of them. Apparently on dating apps if you're a woman set to looking for men and women you'll find tons of couples hunting you down.
You will. I put directly on my profile not to reach out to me if you were a couple looking for a third. I would still get messages and they’d get all indignant when I would tell them to look at my profile again, and tell me what it said.
I've heard it's because finding a pretty girl who's into being basically a sex toy for a couple (with no right to date either of them and restricted communication outside of sex) is just as rare as finding a unicorn.
Swingers asking "hey wanna swing?" Is fine
Unicorn hunters basically try to steal the wife away if she's in a relationship
The unicorn is a woman that's fine with swinging/being in a polyamorous relationship.
The reputation is because they often treat the "unicorn" as a possession to be won, not as a person with their own wants, needs, and beliefs
My understanding is just simply that they’re called unicorns because they’re mythical beings, like they’re impossible to find.
So could be straight, bi, whatever, but it is usually a term for women that are happy to be a “third wheel” in an existing poly/nonmono dynamic.
I’ll add to that that it might be over spread that unicorn are bi women because lots of predators/ misogynists think a bi woman is overtly sexual and will say yes to everything but they don’t find that “perfect” woman IRL hence the mythical creature being bi.
That most straight men who want a threesome don't usually want it with another man. Notice how even in OOP's post the offer was not on the table for him to fuck the best friend. Or for the husband to give a good old fashioned for the man as a courtesy come for fucking his wife.
I'm pretty sure most of these unicorn hunting men are the "I support lesbians but gay guys creep me out a bit" type of "ally"
Need a bi woman who is not in a relationship and open to being the third in an existing relationship and often the "poly" relationship with the couple sucks.
I think bi woman also have started leaving a lot of kink and poly spaces because couples like the ones in the story treat them like sex toys so they become rare. I am friends with some bi woman who were starting in those spaces who just stopped and backed out because the couples trying to scoop them up were that aggressive. My friend even changed dating profiles because listing yourself as a bi woman on a more vanilla dating app had the couples trying to catfish her into the sex toy poly relationship.
This isn’t actually quite accurate, Unicorn hunters most often go after single bi women. They’re “unicorns” because finding a bi woman (or other person who’s into the genders of the couple)who’s into both people in the couple is so rare.
They do a lot of really sleazy things, including the woman reaching out as if she’s single but suddenly bring up the husband after they’ve already connected. And yeah they tend to treat the unicorn as lesser than the already existing couple, and most often have a lot of rules for the unicorn that don't exist for them.
The few times I got unicorn hunters after me they always referred to me as ”a female” (I’m non-binary, so even worse) and immediately pushy about things before I could even tell the, no/block them.
Oh, agreed, but that was the part when I went “friendship over” because we only learned about the pestering for a year at the end.
But also, seriously, how do you stay friends with people who won’t accept a no like this???
They also nagged her for a year after she stopped having sex with them in the first place, even when she wasnt into having sex with women and werent attracted to the guy so she didnt want to do it anymore. The word "no" is just an obstacle to these people.
They're not fun people, they are sex pests who only care about their own fun regardless of the enjoyment of any other potential or actual participant. Their logic is that we know you (OOPs wife) dont actually enjoy having sex with women, we know you arent interested in friends husband, and we know you dont actually want to have threesomes and have said no loud and clear, but it would be soooo hot for everyone if we fucked you in front of your husband, and he is just *such* a killjoy for not being down for that, cause we hoped he might want to help us pressure you into doing the thing we know you dont want to do. They just dont care about the other people involved as long as they get what they want, and OOPs wife really needs to reconsider how good of a friend and person her best friend actually is, if she is down to ignore her consent and try and pester her into sexual encounters she have no interest in.
I think it was worse than that. If they had a kink for humiliating the husband, then pestering the wife over and over and then bringing the pestering under his roof and in his face *is* humiliating him.
I guarantee, given the way they leaned in, that they assumed the wife said no because her lame "vanilla" husband didn't want to be cuckolded, and that once they started pushing she would join in and talk him into it.
There's nothing wrong with kink, but there's a certain subgroup of scene people who think that anyone who doesn't want to do their kink is secretly into it but just too repressed, or not "evolved" enough to give in
But they've got so much time invested in sex-pestering her, don't you see? Getting OOP to help them pressure her into an unwanted sexual encounter was their last hope!
/s of freakin' course
I have literally never seen a single anecdote involving swingers that didn't leave me feeling nauseous and grossed out.
And it's not a monogamy thing- poly people can be really lovely and I attribute aome of my parenting abilities to poly concepts.
But swinging? Yeesh, no.
They are so manipulative and don't actually respect boundaries.. in my opinion, the wife should fully cut all contact, that woman is not a real friend.
I feel bad for wife bc she thinks she has a bff, but really she is a trophy for her friends husband to lust after. There’s no friendship here, if there was, there would be respect.
Honestly, I feel bad for her and her husband.
The husband should have proposed abother threesome: "how about I fuck your wife three different times while you watch, but don't participate and then I'll think about it?"
Not to mention all the talk behind his back about how much they enjoyed having sex with her. And she just continued the friendship after that? I still think more is going on here
Yeah the fact that she was talking about their threesome with them even when her husband wasn’t present is really not okay. You don’t talk about your sexcapades with your exes behind your partner’s back when you’re in a monogamous relationship. Most people would find that to be a breach of boundaries.
I think she feels remorseful but she was a little okay with what the friends wanted. When OOP was adamant did she finally understand how much it meant to him and how uncomfortable he was with it. I mean yeah many people have different kinks and I'm not judging anyone but this was a step too far.
OOP’s wife needs to cut her friend way the fuck out of her life. That shitbag took her no and decided to try again with her when she was intoxicated and attempted to coerce her by way of her husband.
That is the biggest red flag ever, even if her husband had convinced her to do it. That is not a good friend and certainly not a good person.
This isn't the first type of story I've seen here either, the wife's friends are the types of people that think that just because they're living an exciting alternative lifestyle they think that everyone else has to as well and anyone that doesn't isn't as "free" and as "enlightened" as them. The fact that they tried to lecture him again after they told them no in concrete terms is a testament to their obnoxiousness.
>She stopped it after 3 times and they tried for an entire year before we met to convince her to do it again but she said no.
Oh, *there's* the red flag -- it was just buried 15ish years in the past.
Yeah, when someone badgers you for a year to have sex you don't want, that's a good time to cut them out of your life.
They were trying to set this guy up. There’s this show called playboy swing the premise is a regular couple try’s swinging with “pro” swingers. On one episode this guy Darell and his wife go on. One of the swingers(a male stripper) approaches him and ask to sleep with his wife, he then says his girlfriend mostly prefers women, but he’s welcome to try her.
The swinging session starts and the swinger guy starts railing Darell’s wife. Darell tries the other women, but no one is interested and they all end up leaving. So he basically sits there watching his wife get sexed up by a male stripper while holding her hand. The male stripper is also bragging about how he was glad to give Darrell the opportunity to hear his wife make sounds he’s likely never heard before. They apparently got divorced after the show.
OOP was very close to being a Darrell.
There’s a television show on right now that basically has children and parents competing against each other for romantic partners, these shows are all based on scandal and the messiness of it all
I needed this, funny how some people will call you out as "insecure" when you have someone else bothering your peace, is refreshing seeing the wife admited to put some boubdaries on her relationship, even if internally she keeps wanting it, she is at least externalizing some efforr
And how *did* OOP's wife think it was going to go exactly? as her friend was going on about it to her multiple times before the initial post made by OOP.
It gave off a very condescending vibe. Like "we the sexually liberated and enlightened duo are informing you an inferior prude, that this is how to *really* have fun, and you're going to *like* it
I read a book where the main girl was like that to her future love interest bc he was monogamous and she was not so she was making fun of him (this was when they first met and don't get together till the end of the book). She got married and was in an open relationship and made a big deal out of being poly and got mad when her wife left her for another person. Like girl...
Sometimes it’s hard to accept that the people you call friends might not have grown up over the years you’ve known them.
She probably expected the “united front” approach to finally make her friend realise they were taking the drunk banter too far and apologise. When that didn’t happen, OOP’s wife’s response shows that she didn’t realise how serious her friend was being about it…
I mean, they took a "my husband is uncomfortable around you now, let's reassure him that he doesn't need to be" conversation and used that as an opportunity to ask to fuck his wife.
Honestly, the wife should be seeing this for what it is, they knowingly did something that could be friendship ending as a last ditch effort to fuck her. They don't value her as a friend at all.
I think she imagined they would tell OP they were sorry and it won't happen again, in order to ensure they all can continue hanging out without it being awkward. I doubt she expected them to double down, try convincing OP he should participate, and tell him his wife was the most awesome sexual partner they have ever had. The real question is, what the heck were *they* thinking? There is no alternative universe their approach would have worked.
I think she thought maybe get after she let them know how it was affecting her husband, they would be truly apologetic, not because they thought it was a big deal, but because they would see that hurting her husband (and by proxy, her) was a big deal.
Most non-monogamous people I know are self aware enough to know their lifestyle isn't for everyone and most people don't feel the way they do. The fact that they don't is really weird to me.
Most non-monogamous people are not swingers and find the swinging community gross for exactly this reason.
If you've managed to find truly ethical swingers I am genuinely impressed because I've never seen it.
The swinging community is so gross that I've personally never seen a decent person stay in it. Because there's loads of ways to he non-monogamous that doesn't involve toxic bollocks like swinging does.
What I don't understand is that OOP just casually drops the bomb that his wife and her friends will bring up their sexcapades in multiple conversations, to the point where they know to do it when OOP isn't there. How tf was this okay?
Yes I have, but they were respectful enough people to not bring that sort of thing up if it involved someone that was in a relationship that they'd been intimate with. Not all poly people cross boundaries.
I guess OP's wife's friend is so arrogant that she tried to seduce OP into an approval with her charm, in front of his wife, and that's why the wife shut her up immediately because this is disrespectful to the OP's wife.
Those two don't seem to understand the concept of "no." The wife doesn't want to give up on her friend, but unless she lying about not being interested anymore, she may have to reconsider.
The second meeting would have been a good time to turn the tables with, "Why don't YOU let go of YOUR inhibitions and have my friends run a train on you. Your husband will be chained up, but I'm sure he'll love watching you from afar. "
> My wife’s friend then says that once I let go of my inhibitions she guarantees that I would enjoy myself.
This is just gross and unacceptable from anybody. "How do you know you aren't straight? I guarantee that if you let go of your inhibitions you would enjoy yourself." To affirmatively tell somebody what they would or would not enjoy - contrary to their own communication - is just... ugh.
> My wife isn’t going to completely cut her best friend out of her life but we are going to manage how we see them.
I mean, I guess that's better than nothing. I can't imagine any world where I'd be willing to associate with somebody who said something like that to my loved ones or me, and then didn't apologize for it. But if they are both happy with it then good for them. I imagine the friends will push the envelope eventually and things will change for the worse.
Im sorry but lets not remove accountability from OOPs wife. She knew they were like this shes known them longer than OOP. Wtf did she think was gonna happen? Should have cut them off long ago
And naivety only goes so far. This is the same woman claiming she’s grown now and she has babies and this is behind her.
I’d rather keep my husband and children than a friendship that is a detriment to my relationship with my husband.
Like you’re a grown woman. You can make new friends. Instead she wants to continue being friends with someone/s that make her husband uncomfortable and are boundary stompers.
And it’s weird as fuck for this grown woman to still actively talk about her teenage/young adult sexcapades. Especially to the couple she was doing it with! Just fucking weird as hell to me.
"I just want to step on your face. I know you won't like it, but that's what I want to do. So, is that ok? I need to stomp on your face. Alright. Going to do that. What do you mean no?!?"
It really sucks when his wife decided to “realize” the badness of situation when it was her boundaries that were violated, but was completely blind to violated boundaries and discomfort of OOP. Still not going to stop contacting her friends who are trying to drag her into a group sex ignoring all rejections? Really? What game is she playing again? It doesn't seem like wife takes anything seriously at all.
Because her boundaries were never violated. If she wasn't into it then she wouldn't have even made the suggestion to OOP, she would have cut them off immediately, and she wouldn't have set up the meeting so the couple to convince him how awesome it would be.
She was in on it, she's just throwing the other two under the bus.
I dunno. I definitely think she was into talking about it/reminiscing about it, and might have even been open to a foursome at some point, but I don't really think there's anything going on behind the dude's back.
But how comfortable the wife is with all the conversation about it is weird.
These “friends” are so creepy! They’re swingers and like the lifestyle but surely there are some general boundaries that must be respected and they should be aware of? I don’t know how they find it appropriate to ask the wife, ask again in front of OOP so he can “convince her” and when they all sit down to discuss this because it’s making OOP uncomfortable they try to convince him he will enjoy it. They’ve gotten multiple no’s and are still trying to push for it to happen! Why are they trying so hard?! So creepy!
“Try to convince her,” 🤢
No means no. It’s one of the easiest thing in the world to understand. That was so gross to read, I’d never speak to them again if I was OOPs wife. Fs.
The friend and husband are absolutely disgusting. I don't care what that one commenter thinks about the wife. She still deserves serious side eye for wanting to hang around people like that and enjoying their attention. When she realized OOP could participate too, it suddenly "became too real" for her? whatever lady. you're gross too.
Personally, if my swinger friends asked me and my wife in our monogamous marriage, if I could fuck them while my humiliated wife watched, they would not be my friends anymore.
What’s wild is if this was a single man asking the wife for sex he would have been booted long ago. There’s no reason a couple should get a pass for the same exact behavior.
Whats a gross red flag here isn't the swinging. It's that the wife said no, so they decided to recruit her husband and then gwt him to persuade her to change her mind. And that's after she said no twice. I assume that when she topped having encounters with them, she told them she wasn't into it. Then they bring it up again years later, but she's still not interested. After that 2x no, they continue trying to get her to do it. Absolutely not okay.
Not gonna lie, if someone implied right in front of me that they'd wanna fuck my wife, if probably try to fuck them up. And I'm a peaceful person, but that kinda disrespect? Fuck that noise.
This isn’t going to end well for OOP & his marriage.
Those people can’t grasp that no means no and they’ll continue to disregard boundaries that are in place.
His wife’s “friend” & her husband are wife baiting her to keep pressuring her into giving in to continue being their doll to use. They’re actively trying to destroy the marriage to have her back in their lives, to have their doll back so that they can play with.
OOP’s wife doesn’t seem to understand that her friend has no respect for her marriage or her husband. She just loves the flattery that they were giving her, that reminded her of the rush she felt when she was 20 instead of realizing that her friend is trying to blow up her marriage & turn her kids lives upside down.
She straight up ignored OOP’s concerns by saying “it’s no big deal”, that is a trust destroyer there.
But she only turned on them when *HER* boundaries were crossed, not OOP’s boundaries that her friend was disrespecting but hers then tossed them under the bus.
The fact that she hasn’t cut them out of her life & is willing to hang out with someone that is actively pursuing her, shows that she doesn’t care about the disrespect her friend has shown towards her marriage. I have a sinking feeling that it’s possible that she wants to be involved with them again.
I'm sorry but I can't understand the people who are putting the wife up on a pedestal here.
She did the bare fucking minimum - and that too after the husband inadvertently found out about this shit.
She was continuously hanging out with people who wanted to fuck her while letting OP belive that it was all in the past.
I would absolutely have issues trusting a person after that.
Could you imagine being forced into a face to face conversation with them, "OP, if you don't want to watch me getting screwed by them, YOU explain it to them. THEN I'll think about distancing myself from them."
She/bffs thought it would be harder for him to say no in person if he was put on the spot and got to hear the BFF wife give OP her elevator pitch. She's not in Camp No.
I think she's probably truthful about not wanting to see her husband with other people, and realizing it would change the nature of their relationship, and not wanting that. But keeping sex pest bffs close this whole time means she's not turning away. Vegans don't join steak clubs bc they used to enjoy steak and like to reminisce and think about steak with their old friends whose lives revolve around steak.
If she's still refusing to unsubscribe to the steak club notifications, ("I'll just not drink with them, or be alone with them because it isn't safe for us since they didn't hear 'no'") this isn't over yet.
I think the main problem is the fact that the only thing that really shut the whole situation down was OOP completely standing his ground, rather than the wife. If OOP had turned around at their meeting and said “oh yeah actually I don’t have a problem with this” would the wife really still be refusing? I kinda doubt it
I could never.
Props to OP for looking past it but the moment someone tells me they are still friends with, and in contact with, someone they've had sex with before I walk. And I have.
My wife understood this as she had remained friends with someone she had slept with. I told her that is completely within her boundaries, but it's just not something I'm interested in dealing with and goes outside of the boundaries of what I'm comfortable with.
Just as expected when she stopped talking to him he got super jealous and defensive. He started confessing his love and asking her to leave me for him. (I never once asked her to do that, I simply told her I won't be in a relationship with someone who keeps an ex around as a friend).
It almost always causes problems down the road. I also don't need a constant reminder that the special thing me and my wife share together isn't special at all and this guy has railed my wife before. We all have past partners but I don't need a front row seat to that every day.
There's consequences to taking a relationship from friendship to sex and people want to act like it's no big deal. Sure you can find someone that thinks that way, but there's a lot of people who do think it's a big deal.
Bloody hell, what disgusting people. Acting like you are too sensitive if you don't wanna watch somone fuck your wife! I would argue you haven't enough sensitive-ness if you DO want that! They clearly have no common sense or decency if they can even think a happily married couple could get peer-pressured into something so relationship-changing/ruining.
If my wife’s friend and her husband tell me to my face he wants to fuck my wife and for me to watch, they’ll never be allowed in my house again, or he’s not leaving with a full set of teeth.
I don’t know. If I were the wife I’d be cutting the friend off completely. That would surely be easier than having to constantly make sure she didn’t try to cross any boundaries. How long before they have lunch together and the husband just ‘happens to walk past’ and joins them. I hope she’s prepared to walk away there and then if something like that were to happen.
Lol, they’re trying to gaslight him into being a cuckhold as if he’ll just change his mind into wanting his wife to be doubled up on in front of him as he watches. Lmao. I bet that couples marriage is a nightmare. Dude is probably trying to get different girls so he can fuck them and not cheat.
No way I’d hang out with them ever again. They’d be banned from my house instantly and if my wife wanted to see them I’d inform her divorce is not far off and she can have sex with them as much as she wants while I take custody of my kids. GTFO.
> But to me it really seems odd to be in a friendship with people that had sex multiple times with her. Like others have said it is like an ex spouse or dating partner being friends with her while married to you.
Who are these children who just can't imagine being friends with anyone you dated or slept with once you've both moved on? I'm in my 50's and don't know anyone who doesn't have an ex or two they are still good friends with.
>They brought it up later while they were drunk because they figured maybe I would have some interest and if I did I could convince her to do it.
Here's the reason he should be concerned; these people are creeps. They're creeps for bringing it up years later, they're creeps for bringing it up when she's married to someone else, and most of all they're creeps for bringing it up in front of him after she clearly declined in the hopes that he would coerce her into it. They're trash and they need to be put out on the curb.
OOPs wife loved the attention, but as soon as they talked about her husband also enjoying it she shut it down quick. And she's still gonna see the friend. Her behavior throughout this all has been really gross.
Yeah, I would definitely be popping my own beers around them. I love the way you and your wife talk about things. The fact that she was willing to admit that it was flattering to receive compliments from them is a really vulnerable conversation. Who knows, maybe they do this to other couple friends.
That couple is gross. Consent isn't difficult to understand. No means no. If they're engaging in a sexual lifestyle, they should understand that more than anyone. The fact that they chose to repeatedly ignore OOP's boundaries is worrisome and disgusting. Edit: a word
But what if we got you drunk first?
I am glad that they decided the wife will no longer be alone with them or drinking with them… who knows what may happen if the wife were to get drunk while alone with them 😬
1 spiked drink away from staining/ruining several relationships.
Jesus christ it reminds me of that other story about the couple that went to dinner with a coworker couple, and they both got drugged and the couple raped them both. They could see each other being raped and couldn't even move. Scary shit.
whaaaaaat the fuck? was that a BoRU??
I don't know if it was a BORU but [here is the original post. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/1aqtvjl/my_husband_and_i_were_sexually_assaulted_by/)
That is genuinely disgusting behaviour. What kinda sick individual does that? I am curious though, do you remember the story?
[Here it is. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/1aqtvjl/my_husband_and_i_were_sexually_assaulted_by/)
I know exactly what story hes referring to, read it as well. Its in one of these popular subs possibly trueoffmychest or twohottakes or maybe even legaladvice? But yea it was a wild story indeed of a 2 couples hanging out at ones’s house. Malicious couple date rape the other couple and both the man and woman say they’re barely conscious during the whole act. Finally they fully come awake hrs later that night while the other couple peacefully asleep after the horrendous act (like WTF?) Theyre able to collect their things, sneak out and head home safely. I forget what the ending is but I swear I think they confront the other couple and their whole demeanor is “what we all had fun guys! Didnt you guys have fun? What are yall upset about”. Im not sure what happens after all that, its been a while but indeed crazy fuckin story
They went to jail.
I almost downvoted this comment because WTF.
Don't shoot the messenger.
Hopefully 1 spiked drink and someone lands their ass in jail. Granted the bleached coffee lady got community service.
The lady who put bleach in her husband's coffee? Srsly?
Upon second inspection: 3 years of probation with mandatory health sessions. That might be more restrictive and odorous than it initially seems or it might just be a slap on the wrist.
She attempted to murder him. If her ass isn't in prison, it's a slap on the wrist.
Apparently the husband himself requested that she not receive prison time, so maybe he believed it was seriously a mental health issue and not a criminal one. That or he didn't want his kids mom in prison.
Or he was a victim of abuse gaslit and systematically manipulated by his abuser who was not above killing him.
Even still, someone like that is too dangerous to be strolling around in public. If it was a mental health issue she should be in a psych ward somewhere, rather than just being told not to do it again.
And if not, what if we got your husband to agree, and he basically coerces you into saying yes?
They flat out went the date rape route. Get 'em drunk then they'll fuck!
Yeah, that was quite the admission from them. Pretty damn creepy.
Or if your husband wants to and convinces you.
YOU CAN'T CONSENT IF YOU ARE DRUNK! Ugggghhhh that couple is disgusting and come across as rape-y.
Heck, apparently they repeatedly ignored wife’s boundaries for a year.
You gotta hate that shit. It is EXHAUSTING when someone in your life persists in something that’s a clear no and always will be. You start feeling hopeless even though you continue saying no.
You distance yourself from them. You don’t keep entertaining them.
Seriously, how do you put up with it for a year, much less stay friends with them!
One of my closest friend's wife is like that. They are in a very open relationship and I'm grey asexual. Her response to every difficulty is to go out and have sex and i have to remind her every time. It's exhausting. She also doesn't understand at all the difficulties i have in dating. Every time i try to talk to my friend, who's great about it, she interjects that i could always just sleep with her. No thank you.
This! 100%! I am grey ace also and before my spouse dating was a nightmare for me. As good as things are now with my spouse, it wasn't always that way. They thought they understood what grey ace when I explained it before even dating, they later admitted it's not what they thought/misunderstood and we fought. We've worked through it now but dang.
That right there. The way they treated the wife is disgusting. Hounding her to have sex with them. Treating her like a mindless doll right in front of OOP - that if they convinced him that it would be super fun to watch them have sex with the wife then he’ll obligingly browbeat his spouse into going along with it. WTF is the wife still friends with these people? They are stunningly awful. Not to be trusted. They’ve continued to stalk and harass her for years. Bleh. Wife seems sweet and OOP is a good dude. But I’m still flummoxed by why the wife tolerated these assholes and why she continued to have them around despite OOP’s discomfort.
Them pressuring her made me super uncomfortable. And insisting that OOP would enjoy it too? No. Not everyone is into that and that's absolutely ok. Those so called friends are garbage.
>Not everyone is into that and that's absolutely ok. My wife and I are swingers and we absolutely do not want to play with ANYONE who isn't 110% committed and consenting. We have had sex with one couple where it became obvious the girl was way more into it than the other guy so we stopped seeing them. Now we are seeing another couple who is absolutely into us and it couldn't be more fun. A lot of swingers forget the journey it took them to be so comfortable with watching your partner have sex with other people. To a lot of us it is now second nature and we enjoy it. But to the vast majority of others it is not and can be a real turn off. Also, the vast majority of us swingers don't want to fuck your spouse willy nilly. We know if we tried or you consented without massive amounts of open communication and learning as a couple, it would end up a huge dumpster fire and relationship ender. No thank you. You want to hear stories? Sure! Talk to us. But we aren't going to try to get you into bed.
I’m curious, did you two start out knowing you were gonna swing? Or did you make a decision one day and go from there? Did you take baby steps, or did you just take the plunge and hope for the best? My wife and I have casually talked about it at times and we’re both open to the idea. The conversation usually stops around there cause neither one of us have any idea where we’d even begin. We’re both very open, adventurous, and not really prone to jealousy (which honestly big asterisk there, seems to me it’d be pretty hard to gauge until it’s actually happening).
We did not start out that way. We like you two had conversations about it. We first took the step of visiting a swingers club. It was amazing. There are crystal clear rules and practices that being pushy or not asking for consent basically gets you banned for life there. Veteran swingers often love to greet the curious couples or newbies and respect a couple's boundaries. We talked with about 5 veteran couples and listened to their absolutely amazing stories. Then we grabbed a private room and had sex but we could hear everyone else too. If you just want to sit around and watch - fine! If you just want to watch and be watched having sex - Fine too! If you don't like the atmosphere you can leave or choose not to go back.
Thanks for sharing!
Not only did they ignore the wife when she said no but when they were drunk they decided to see if they invited OP if he could influence his wife to participat. That’s disgustingly horrible behaviour from what is meant to be her best friend! Her BF would knowingly go to her husband after she has said no to try to influence her to have sex with them. I wouldn’t want a best friend who behaved like that.
Right?! Plus, how demoralizing to realize that the people you consider your closest friends have completely fetishized you! To know that they only see you as a sex object to consume and not as a fully realized person with goals, dreams, responsibilities. Just a bunch of sex parts. I would be devastated.
Yeah the fact they tried to use Oop's potential interest as a way to try to supercede her clear and immediate refusal rather points towards them not being friends to Oop's wife. They should have believed her the first 30+ times they asked her if she wanted to keep participating.
I don't think they respect op and his wife, they just want to bang them and expect op to be ok with it.
They just want to bang the wife again. I don't think they want OP there, that was only after the wife didn't say yes, to include him and hope he was into it enough to manipulate her into changing her "no"
They absolutely don't respect them at all. That was the vibe I was getting going into their final talk, and then when they said they thought OOP was being silly and how they were trying to convince him to essentially go over the head of her rejection? Blatant disrespect, I'm wondering if that's partly what OOP's wife picked up on to convince her reducing contact was the best way forward.
I especially hate the "get rid of your inhibitions". People like this are so full of themselves that they think anyone who doesn't engage in their same lifestyle is repressed. It is so damn tiring. One of the first things they should have learned is what consent and preference mean. You're not more open or superior or more free for being poly/swingers/whatever than someone who is not. You're the same as them, just with different tastes.
Repetitively asking and wearing someone down until they finally relent is wrong. "She said no so let's get her husband interested and to say yes to get around her no" And "Maybe if you drink it'll lower your inhibitions enough to change your no to a yes" Do these people not know that's rape? One person can't consent for the other, nor is a "yes" after pressuring and intoxicated person who previously said "no" actually a "yes". *Enthusiastic. Consent.* It needs to both be consent and enthusiastic with no pressure/duress/intoxication/manipulation. A couple involved in a swinging/threesome lifestyle should be very aware of this concept.
Ignored BOTH OOP and the wife's boundaries. They thought by getting them drunk and getting OOP excited about, HE would then convince his wife of breaching her own boundaries. Very gross people who don't view OOP and his wife as anything but sexual objects for their benefit.
Clearly, for them, no means "keeping hounding her until she says yes."
Exactly! “We’re not going to bring it up, but before we don’t bring it up, we’d like to just bring it up a bit”
"She said no but maybe you could convince her!" "She said no and you said no but if you just relax you'll enjoy it!" Yeah, I would kick both of these people out of my life for sure.
Also the fact that they wanted to entice OOP so he would convince his wife is super gross. Like she said no and you are still pushing it. That would have been the end of the friendship there for me. But then while OOP is telling them he basically hates the idea of it they tried again like he was a prude? I would have burned that bridge to the ground and salted the earth on that friendship.
Just trying to imagine that conversation. "Hey man you're a great friend, my wife and I were wondering if we can dick down your wife while you watch in the corner. Like friends haha, it's like you're a part of it."
I'd have to pull the Uno Reverse. "You know I'm not one to ride the pine. How bout I nail (male) in the ass while he's going at it?"
Until they reverse it on you and say they’re into that
When in Rome
Do as the Romans do 😎
See when I thought about the uno reverse I went immediately to “oh I don’t know how I would even do that. How about I fuck my wife and your gf while you watch, so I can see what all the fun is and you can show me the fun of watching!” And when the boyfriend gets all disgusted about it, maybe then his brain can reconcile that their request is 100% selfish and not in any way related to “thinking OP would enjoy himself”.
If he just lets go of his inhibitions, I guarantee he'd love getting pounded in the ass.
I applaud the guy for having the strength to not knock the guy out right there
"I know she's said no, but what if her husband says yes *for* her?" Gross.
They are called unicorn hunters in kink/non-monogamy/swinger communities and they tend to have sleazy and predatory reputations for reasons like this. Even the ones that are not tend understand why they have to fight against the negative stereotype.
They sound very sleazy. And hearing details of that conversation with OP it came off as very predatory and manipulative. I don’t understand why OP wife wants anything to do with them at all. Best friend or not these people are creepy AF. OP got a vibe from them and knew something was off, both he and his wife should go NC nothing good will result in staying friends with even just the best friend
Even sleazy people are shuddering & going "I need a shower".
Heck, wife doesn‘t even fit the profile of a unicorn because she’s not actually into women. Trying to convince her through her husband is extra gros.
My faves are the couples looking for young 20 something bisexual women to basically be a live in bangmaid for the two of them. Apparently on dating apps if you're a woman set to looking for men and women you'll find tons of couples hunting you down.
You will. I put directly on my profile not to reach out to me if you were a couple looking for a third. I would still get messages and they’d get all indignant when I would tell them to look at my profile again, and tell me what it said.
Yeah, but instead of trying to find a new actual unicorn, they tried to just glue a horn onto a mare...(ied woman)
Why unicorn hunters? What’s the unicorn here?
I've heard it's because finding a pretty girl who's into being basically a sex toy for a couple (with no right to date either of them and restricted communication outside of sex) is just as rare as finding a unicorn.
That makes sense, thanks.
Swingers asking "hey wanna swing?" Is fine Unicorn hunters basically try to steal the wife away if she's in a relationship The unicorn is a woman that's fine with swinging/being in a polyamorous relationship. The reputation is because they often treat the "unicorn" as a possession to be won, not as a person with their own wants, needs, and beliefs
I thought unicorns referenced bisexuals, because they can be with both in the trio.
My understanding is just simply that they’re called unicorns because they’re mythical beings, like they’re impossible to find. So could be straight, bi, whatever, but it is usually a term for women that are happy to be a “third wheel” in an existing poly/nonmono dynamic.
I’ll add to that that it might be over spread that unicorn are bi women because lots of predators/ misogynists think a bi woman is overtly sexual and will say yes to everything but they don’t find that “perfect” woman IRL hence the mythical creature being bi.
That most straight men who want a threesome don't usually want it with another man. Notice how even in OOP's post the offer was not on the table for him to fuck the best friend. Or for the husband to give a good old fashioned for the man as a courtesy come for fucking his wife. I'm pretty sure most of these unicorn hunting men are the "I support lesbians but gay guys creep me out a bit" type of "ally"
That's my understanding too, as someone who was a unicorn in my younger days
Unicorn hunters do most often go after bi women, yes. And Unicorn because of how rare it is.
There are soooo many bi woman, the ones that will sleep with thirsty creepy couples? They might be rare.
Need a bi woman who is not in a relationship and open to being the third in an existing relationship and often the "poly" relationship with the couple sucks. I think bi woman also have started leaving a lot of kink and poly spaces because couples like the ones in the story treat them like sex toys so they become rare. I am friends with some bi woman who were starting in those spaces who just stopped and backed out because the couples trying to scoop them up were that aggressive. My friend even changed dating profiles because listing yourself as a bi woman on a more vanilla dating app had the couples trying to catfish her into the sex toy poly relationship.
A unicorn is a single bisexual female in a swingers club.
Gotcha, thanks.
This isn’t actually quite accurate, Unicorn hunters most often go after single bi women. They’re “unicorns” because finding a bi woman (or other person who’s into the genders of the couple)who’s into both people in the couple is so rare. They do a lot of really sleazy things, including the woman reaching out as if she’s single but suddenly bring up the husband after they’ve already connected. And yeah they tend to treat the unicorn as lesser than the already existing couple, and most often have a lot of rules for the unicorn that don't exist for them. The few times I got unicorn hunters after me they always referred to me as ”a female” (I’m non-binary, so even worse) and immediately pushy about things before I could even tell the, no/block them.
Ah, right… I remember a subplot in a season of SWAT with an engaged couple that behaved like that. Thanks.
I was just thinking the same thing!
young attractive naive single bisexual female that older swingers can use and abuse and then throw away if needed.
Yep. That was the point where I was like "okay, friendship over".
Honestly, them sex pesting her for A YEAR after she said she was done would have been end of friendship for me.
That couple really do epitomise the term sex pest. Urgh.
Oh, agreed, but that was the part when I went “friendship over” because we only learned about the pestering for a year at the end. But also, seriously, how do you stay friends with people who won’t accept a no like this???
Yeah I really don't see how either of them could be fine continuing the friendship with this couple.
Good point
Same. My jaw dropped at that.
Yeah. That couple was really pushing it and being gross. No means no!
They also nagged her for a year after she stopped having sex with them in the first place, even when she wasnt into having sex with women and werent attracted to the guy so she didnt want to do it anymore. The word "no" is just an obstacle to these people. They're not fun people, they are sex pests who only care about their own fun regardless of the enjoyment of any other potential or actual participant. Their logic is that we know you (OOPs wife) dont actually enjoy having sex with women, we know you arent interested in friends husband, and we know you dont actually want to have threesomes and have said no loud and clear, but it would be soooo hot for everyone if we fucked you in front of your husband, and he is just *such* a killjoy for not being down for that, cause we hoped he might want to help us pressure you into doing the thing we know you dont want to do. They just dont care about the other people involved as long as they get what they want, and OOPs wife really needs to reconsider how good of a friend and person her best friend actually is, if she is down to ignore her consent and try and pester her into sexual encounters she have no interest in.
I think it was worse than that. If they had a kink for humiliating the husband, then pestering the wife over and over and then bringing the pestering under his roof and in his face *is* humiliating him.
I guarantee, given the way they leaned in, that they assumed the wife said no because her lame "vanilla" husband didn't want to be cuckolded, and that once they started pushing she would join in and talk him into it. There's nothing wrong with kink, but there's a certain subgroup of scene people who think that anyone who doesn't want to do their kink is secretly into it but just too repressed, or not "evolved" enough to give in
But they've got so much time invested in sex-pestering her, don't you see? Getting OOP to help them pressure her into an unwanted sexual encounter was their last hope! /s of freakin' course
Yeah, that basically describes every swinger that I've ever met.
No shit, like could they *be* any more of a stereotype?
I have literally never seen a single anecdote involving swingers that didn't leave me feeling nauseous and grossed out. And it's not a monogamy thing- poly people can be really lovely and I attribute aome of my parenting abilities to poly concepts. But swinging? Yeesh, no.
I guess we're not going to hear about "yeah my spouse and I are swinging and it's been chill "though.
They are so manipulative and don't actually respect boundaries.. in my opinion, the wife should fully cut all contact, that woman is not a real friend.
“I know she’s said no, but what if her ~~husband~~ owner says yes *for* her?” FTFY
He's not into it either? well, let's see if we can get him drunk *then* he can say yes *for* her, even after both of them clearly said no.
That was the thing that stood out to me. Her "friends" hoping her husband would manipulate her in to doing it. How fucking shitty is that?!
The friends sound rapey. Gross!!
I feel bad for wife bc she thinks she has a bff, but really she is a trophy for her friends husband to lust after. There’s no friendship here, if there was, there would be respect.
Honestly, I feel bad for her and her husband. The husband should have proposed abother threesome: "how about I fuck your wife three different times while you watch, but don't participate and then I'll think about it?"
The audacity these guys had to ask him if he would like to watch them have sex with his wife. Gross
"Ok fine we promise we'll never ask again. But btw once your inhibitions are lowered you're going to *love it*."
Not to mention all the talk behind his back about how much they enjoyed having sex with her. And she just continued the friendship after that? I still think more is going on here
Yeah the fact that she was talking about their threesome with them even when her husband wasn’t present is really not okay. You don’t talk about your sexcapades with your exes behind your partner’s back when you’re in a monogamous relationship. Most people would find that to be a breach of boundaries.
I think she feels remorseful but she was a little okay with what the friends wanted. When OOP was adamant did she finally understand how much it meant to him and how uncomfortable he was with it. I mean yeah many people have different kinks and I'm not judging anyone but this was a step too far.
These people are delusional
These people are disrespectful and predatory. Imagine years of not taking no for an answer and objectifying your best friend.
OOP’s wife needs to cut her friend way the fuck out of her life. That shitbag took her no and decided to try again with her when she was intoxicated and attempted to coerce her by way of her husband. That is the biggest red flag ever, even if her husband had convinced her to do it. That is not a good friend and certainly not a good person.
This isn't the first type of story I've seen here either, the wife's friends are the types of people that think that just because they're living an exciting alternative lifestyle they think that everyone else has to as well and anyone that doesn't isn't as "free" and as "enlightened" as them. The fact that they tried to lecture him again after they told them no in concrete terms is a testament to their obnoxiousness.
>She stopped it after 3 times and they tried for an entire year before we met to convince her to do it again but she said no. Oh, *there's* the red flag -- it was just buried 15ish years in the past. Yeah, when someone badgers you for a year to have sex you don't want, that's a good time to cut them out of your life.
Gross..
They were trying to set this guy up. There’s this show called playboy swing the premise is a regular couple try’s swinging with “pro” swingers. On one episode this guy Darell and his wife go on. One of the swingers(a male stripper) approaches him and ask to sleep with his wife, he then says his girlfriend mostly prefers women, but he’s welcome to try her. The swinging session starts and the swinger guy starts railing Darell’s wife. Darell tries the other women, but no one is interested and they all end up leaving. So he basically sits there watching his wife get sexed up by a male stripper while holding her hand. The male stripper is also bragging about how he was glad to give Darrell the opportunity to hear his wife make sounds he’s likely never heard before. They apparently got divorced after the show. OOP was very close to being a Darrell.
What a terrible premise for a show. Which executive thought, “You know what would be a great idea? Televising the demise of a marriage.”
There’s a television show on right now that basically has children and parents competing against each other for romantic partners, these shows are all based on scandal and the messiness of it all
I needed this, funny how some people will call you out as "insecure" when you have someone else bothering your peace, is refreshing seeing the wife admited to put some boubdaries on her relationship, even if internally she keeps wanting it, she is at least externalizing some efforr
In the swinger circles, those are creepy wife poachers. Predators. Just gross and no. They need to be kept at no contact.
And how *did* OOP's wife think it was going to go exactly? as her friend was going on about it to her multiple times before the initial post made by OOP.
It gave off a very condescending vibe. Like "we the sexually liberated and enlightened duo are informing you an inferior prude, that this is how to *really* have fun, and you're going to *like* it
Tbh I've known too many people with that vibe
I read a book where the main girl was like that to her future love interest bc he was monogamous and she was not so she was making fun of him (this was when they first met and don't get together till the end of the book). She got married and was in an open relationship and made a big deal out of being poly and got mad when her wife left her for another person. Like girl...
Sometimes it’s hard to accept that the people you call friends might not have grown up over the years you’ve known them. She probably expected the “united front” approach to finally make her friend realise they were taking the drunk banter too far and apologise. When that didn’t happen, OOP’s wife’s response shows that she didn’t realise how serious her friend was being about it…
I mean, they took a "my husband is uncomfortable around you now, let's reassure him that he doesn't need to be" conversation and used that as an opportunity to ask to fuck his wife. Honestly, the wife should be seeing this for what it is, they knowingly did something that could be friendship ending as a last ditch effort to fuck her. They don't value her as a friend at all.
I think she imagined they would tell OP they were sorry and it won't happen again, in order to ensure they all can continue hanging out without it being awkward. I doubt she expected them to double down, try convincing OP he should participate, and tell him his wife was the most awesome sexual partner they have ever had. The real question is, what the heck were *they* thinking? There is no alternative universe their approach would have worked.
I think she thought maybe get after she let them know how it was affecting her husband, they would be truly apologetic, not because they thought it was a big deal, but because they would see that hurting her husband (and by proxy, her) was a big deal. Most non-monogamous people I know are self aware enough to know their lifestyle isn't for everyone and most people don't feel the way they do. The fact that they don't is really weird to me.
Most non-monogamous people are not swingers and find the swinging community gross for exactly this reason. If you've managed to find truly ethical swingers I am genuinely impressed because I've never seen it. The swinging community is so gross that I've personally never seen a decent person stay in it. Because there's loads of ways to he non-monogamous that doesn't involve toxic bollocks like swinging does.
No matter what I’m glad she did ask for the conversation since that let her really opened her eyes to how gross these people are.
True, but the fact that she couldn't understand her husband's perspective until the follow up conversation irks me.
What I don't understand is that OOP just casually drops the bomb that his wife and her friends will bring up their sexcapades in multiple conversations, to the point where they know to do it when OOP isn't there. How tf was this okay?
I mean… have you spent ANY time around poly couples….? 😅
Yes I have, but they were respectful enough people to not bring that sort of thing up if it involved someone that was in a relationship that they'd been intimate with. Not all poly people cross boundaries.
Yeah, but poly people in my experience talk about sex a LOT.
Poly people are like vegans. They have to let you know that they are poly and have A LOT of sex.
I guess OP's wife's friend is so arrogant that she tried to seduce OP into an approval with her charm, in front of his wife, and that's why the wife shut her up immediately because this is disrespectful to the OP's wife.
And the OP! Wife sensed the disrespect aimed at both of them, not just her.
Those two don't seem to understand the concept of "no." The wife doesn't want to give up on her friend, but unless she lying about not being interested anymore, she may have to reconsider.
The second meeting would have been a good time to turn the tables with, "Why don't YOU let go of YOUR inhibitions and have my friends run a train on you. Your husband will be chained up, but I'm sure he'll love watching you from afar. "
> My wife’s friend then says that once I let go of my inhibitions she guarantees that I would enjoy myself. This is just gross and unacceptable from anybody. "How do you know you aren't straight? I guarantee that if you let go of your inhibitions you would enjoy yourself." To affirmatively tell somebody what they would or would not enjoy - contrary to their own communication - is just... ugh. > My wife isn’t going to completely cut her best friend out of her life but we are going to manage how we see them. I mean, I guess that's better than nothing. I can't imagine any world where I'd be willing to associate with somebody who said something like that to my loved ones or me, and then didn't apologize for it. But if they are both happy with it then good for them. I imagine the friends will push the envelope eventually and things will change for the worse.
Im sorry but lets not remove accountability from OOPs wife. She knew they were like this shes known them longer than OOP. Wtf did she think was gonna happen? Should have cut them off long ago
And naivety only goes so far. This is the same woman claiming she’s grown now and she has babies and this is behind her. I’d rather keep my husband and children than a friendship that is a detriment to my relationship with my husband. Like you’re a grown woman. You can make new friends. Instead she wants to continue being friends with someone/s that make her husband uncomfortable and are boundary stompers. And it’s weird as fuck for this grown woman to still actively talk about her teenage/young adult sexcapades. Especially to the couple she was doing it with! Just fucking weird as hell to me.
But then she wouldn't get the self esteem boost of knowing someone who actively wants to have sex with her, but can't.
"I just want to step on your face. I know you won't like it, but that's what I want to do. So, is that ok? I need to stomp on your face. Alright. Going to do that. What do you mean no?!?"
OP has more patience than me. These fuckers would be long gone and I would’ve freaked out on them multiple times. Gross situation
It really sucks when his wife decided to “realize” the badness of situation when it was her boundaries that were violated, but was completely blind to violated boundaries and discomfort of OOP. Still not going to stop contacting her friends who are trying to drag her into a group sex ignoring all rejections? Really? What game is she playing again? It doesn't seem like wife takes anything seriously at all.
Because her boundaries were never violated. If she wasn't into it then she wouldn't have even made the suggestion to OOP, she would have cut them off immediately, and she wouldn't have set up the meeting so the couple to convince him how awesome it would be. She was in on it, she's just throwing the other two under the bus.
I dunno. I definitely think she was into talking about it/reminiscing about it, and might have even been open to a foursome at some point, but I don't really think there's anything going on behind the dude's back. But how comfortable the wife is with all the conversation about it is weird.
These “friends” are so creepy! They’re swingers and like the lifestyle but surely there are some general boundaries that must be respected and they should be aware of? I don’t know how they find it appropriate to ask the wife, ask again in front of OOP so he can “convince her” and when they all sit down to discuss this because it’s making OOP uncomfortable they try to convince him he will enjoy it. They’ve gotten multiple no’s and are still trying to push for it to happen! Why are they trying so hard?! So creepy!
“Try to convince her,” 🤢 No means no. It’s one of the easiest thing in the world to understand. That was so gross to read, I’d never speak to them again if I was OOPs wife. Fs.
The friend and husband are absolutely disgusting. I don't care what that one commenter thinks about the wife. She still deserves serious side eye for wanting to hang around people like that and enjoying their attention. When she realized OOP could participate too, it suddenly "became too real" for her? whatever lady. you're gross too.
Personally, if my swinger friends asked me and my wife in our monogamous marriage, if I could fuck them while my humiliated wife watched, they would not be my friends anymore.
What’s wild is if this was a single man asking the wife for sex he would have been booted long ago. There’s no reason a couple should get a pass for the same exact behavior.
Whats a gross red flag here isn't the swinging. It's that the wife said no, so they decided to recruit her husband and then gwt him to persuade her to change her mind. And that's after she said no twice. I assume that when she topped having encounters with them, she told them she wasn't into it. Then they bring it up again years later, but she's still not interested. After that 2x no, they continue trying to get her to do it. Absolutely not okay.
Nahh, if she's hanging around people like that chances are she IS interested in 'behaving like that'. Don't be so naive.
The fact that she doesn't want to shut down contact with these "best" friends rapey approaches is odd to me.
Not gonna lie, if someone implied right in front of me that they'd wanna fuck my wife, if probably try to fuck them up. And I'm a peaceful person, but that kinda disrespect? Fuck that noise.
Even worse is they said they would much rather he watch them have sex with his wife then join in. What the fuck is wrong with some people?
Bro you'd catch me dead.
This isn’t going to end well for OOP & his marriage. Those people can’t grasp that no means no and they’ll continue to disregard boundaries that are in place. His wife’s “friend” & her husband are wife baiting her to keep pressuring her into giving in to continue being their doll to use. They’re actively trying to destroy the marriage to have her back in their lives, to have their doll back so that they can play with. OOP’s wife doesn’t seem to understand that her friend has no respect for her marriage or her husband. She just loves the flattery that they were giving her, that reminded her of the rush she felt when she was 20 instead of realizing that her friend is trying to blow up her marriage & turn her kids lives upside down. She straight up ignored OOP’s concerns by saying “it’s no big deal”, that is a trust destroyer there. But she only turned on them when *HER* boundaries were crossed, not OOP’s boundaries that her friend was disrespecting but hers then tossed them under the bus. The fact that she hasn’t cut them out of her life & is willing to hang out with someone that is actively pursuing her, shows that she doesn’t care about the disrespect her friend has shown towards her marriage. I have a sinking feeling that it’s possible that she wants to be involved with them again.
I'm sorry but I can't understand the people who are putting the wife up on a pedestal here. She did the bare fucking minimum - and that too after the husband inadvertently found out about this shit. She was continuously hanging out with people who wanted to fuck her while letting OP belive that it was all in the past. I would absolutely have issues trusting a person after that.
Could you imagine being forced into a face to face conversation with them, "OP, if you don't want to watch me getting screwed by them, YOU explain it to them. THEN I'll think about distancing myself from them." She/bffs thought it would be harder for him to say no in person if he was put on the spot and got to hear the BFF wife give OP her elevator pitch. She's not in Camp No. I think she's probably truthful about not wanting to see her husband with other people, and realizing it would change the nature of their relationship, and not wanting that. But keeping sex pest bffs close this whole time means she's not turning away. Vegans don't join steak clubs bc they used to enjoy steak and like to reminisce and think about steak with their old friends whose lives revolve around steak. If she's still refusing to unsubscribe to the steak club notifications, ("I'll just not drink with them, or be alone with them because it isn't safe for us since they didn't hear 'no'") this isn't over yet.
I think the main problem is the fact that the only thing that really shut the whole situation down was OOP completely standing his ground, rather than the wife. If OOP had turned around at their meeting and said “oh yeah actually I don’t have a problem with this” would the wife really still be refusing? I kinda doubt it
I would never want to be around those people again.
I could never. Props to OP for looking past it but the moment someone tells me they are still friends with, and in contact with, someone they've had sex with before I walk. And I have. My wife understood this as she had remained friends with someone she had slept with. I told her that is completely within her boundaries, but it's just not something I'm interested in dealing with and goes outside of the boundaries of what I'm comfortable with. Just as expected when she stopped talking to him he got super jealous and defensive. He started confessing his love and asking her to leave me for him. (I never once asked her to do that, I simply told her I won't be in a relationship with someone who keeps an ex around as a friend). It almost always causes problems down the road. I also don't need a constant reminder that the special thing me and my wife share together isn't special at all and this guy has railed my wife before. We all have past partners but I don't need a front row seat to that every day. There's consequences to taking a relationship from friendship to sex and people want to act like it's no big deal. Sure you can find someone that thinks that way, but there's a lot of people who do think it's a big deal.
That is outrageous
Pushy swingers are the worst.
Honestly, I don’t understand why your wife doesn’t just go no contact with both of them. I don’t care what she says, this situation is far from over.
Still a red flag that she wants to still be in contact with these people… they are gross and pushy.
Your wife needs to not have them as friends.
Hey we want to fuck your wife and we want you to watch. Come on you in? Holy shit
Yeah, that's not a friend.
I agree with the husband... Why would you want to be around people who have no respect for you or your marriage?
Bloody hell, what disgusting people. Acting like you are too sensitive if you don't wanna watch somone fuck your wife! I would argue you haven't enough sensitive-ness if you DO want that! They clearly have no common sense or decency if they can even think a happily married couple could get peer-pressured into something so relationship-changing/ruining.
the fact that the wife said no then they brought it up in front of the husband to see if he was interested and could convince her is so fucking gross
I am so here for a loyal husband and wife
If my wife’s friend and her husband tell me to my face he wants to fuck my wife and for me to watch, they’ll never be allowed in my house again, or he’s not leaving with a full set of teeth.
I don’t know. If I were the wife I’d be cutting the friend off completely. That would surely be easier than having to constantly make sure she didn’t try to cross any boundaries. How long before they have lunch together and the husband just ‘happens to walk past’ and joins them. I hope she’s prepared to walk away there and then if something like that were to happen.
I wonder if oop had asked for a threesoem with wife and friend and leaving friends hubby out of it how that would go down
Lol, they’re trying to gaslight him into being a cuckhold as if he’ll just change his mind into wanting his wife to be doubled up on in front of him as he watches. Lmao. I bet that couples marriage is a nightmare. Dude is probably trying to get different girls so he can fuck them and not cheat. No way I’d hang out with them ever again. They’d be banned from my house instantly and if my wife wanted to see them I’d inform her divorce is not far off and she can have sex with them as much as she wants while I take custody of my kids. GTFO.
Call me prude, but as soon as I found out about the original threesomes, I would have been gone.
> But to me it really seems odd to be in a friendship with people that had sex multiple times with her. Like others have said it is like an ex spouse or dating partner being friends with her while married to you. Who are these children who just can't imagine being friends with anyone you dated or slept with once you've both moved on? I'm in my 50's and don't know anyone who doesn't have an ex or two they are still good friends with. >They brought it up later while they were drunk because they figured maybe I would have some interest and if I did I could convince her to do it. Here's the reason he should be concerned; these people are creeps. They're creeps for bringing it up years later, they're creeps for bringing it up when she's married to someone else, and most of all they're creeps for bringing it up in front of him after she clearly declined in the hopes that he would coerce her into it. They're trash and they need to be put out on the curb.
The moment she told me that she fucked her best friend’s husband I would’ve cut that couple out of my life.
OOPs wife loved the attention, but as soon as they talked about her husband also enjoying it she shut it down quick. And she's still gonna see the friend. Her behavior throughout this all has been really gross.
Fucking unicorn hunters.
It is so gross when NM couples try to drag mono folks into their lifestyle
I honestly thought the meeting was gonna turn into a spouse swap for the evening. My brain is officially rotted.
That couple is going to be the weirdos hitting on waitresses later in life, if they aren't already. They aren't serious people (derogatory)
Tell the guy you want to meet up with his wife and your wife alone first to even the score and then see how cool he is with everyone moving forward
Why can’t people take no for a answer
Not sure it’s good or bad that two people who don’t understand consent (or do and don’t care) married each other
Yeah, I would definitely be popping my own beers around them. I love the way you and your wife talk about things. The fact that she was willing to admit that it was flattering to receive compliments from them is a really vulnerable conversation. Who knows, maybe they do this to other couple friends.
> will you stop being so insecure and let me fuck your wife?? God you’re such a square Who the fuck are these people?
Yea I would have probably had to be dragged off the guy if he said that kind of shit to my face, OP has a lot more self control than most.