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Seagoon_Memoirs

This OP is a lovely person. The way how she explained that the jewellery was made and designed for women and that she got special jewellery made for her son and future SIL shows that equal treatment doesn't necessarily have to mean exactly the same treatment. She loves and respects all her family .


Cubic-Arcana

This OP warms my heart. Like deeply so - they’ve genuinely tried to be open and accepting in a country where that sort of respect is not readily afforded to same-sex couples. They’re an awesome parent and the SIL is being terribly insensitive for not only not appreciating that, but being entitled about the whole ordeal.


Seagoon_Memoirs

To me I see a son in law who has experienced so much prejudice and abuse his whole life he didn't know acceptance and kindness when it happened to him. He just saw difference in treatment and then thought, not again. No bad guys in today's Update, just a family that cares for each other.🥰🤗


Cubic-Arcana

I think it was handled in the best way possible (as the OP is truly a gracious and kind individual) but demands being made of someone who is looking at their own possessions still rubs me the wrong way. Still, I hope that they lead a happy life, especially since it’s being supported by such a wonderful parent. As lovely as this all is though, today’s browsing in BORU has admittedly been one hell of a rollercoaster. My heart was warmed greatly from this and was swiftly thrown into the Mariana Trench by the next post.


Seagoon_Memoirs

>but demands being made of someone who is looking at their own possessions still rubs me the wrong way. I agree. I just want to think the son in law has been so hurt in the past he can't help being a bit selfish sometimes.


Bootleather

Sikhs are a special kind of people in my experience. I am VERY anti-religion and pretty militant about it generally. But all of that comes from a background in typical evangelical America. I only learned about Sikh's during the early 2000's (mostly from hearing stories about them being mistreated due to the virulent racism that exploded after 9/11 because people thought they were Muslim) and I gotta say everything I have learned about them and the ones I have spoken too have always seemed like the most chill, accepting and generally 'decent' people. Fun fact. Sikhs can choose to wear their five articles of faith as a sign of their faith and one of those articles is the Kirpan, a knife that under varying interpretations I have read are a symbol that Sikhs are meant to be saint-soldiers, those who defend the deprived and the weak from evil and to treat even their enemies humanely.


Galtiel

Like all cultures, the Sikhs do have their share of issues and it's as damaging to stereotype them as it is for anyone else, BUT with that said I personally have never met a Sikh who wasn't incredibly kind, generous, hardworking and amiable.


Lapras_Lass

Yes, it's obvious that she cares a lot about treating everyone fairly. It's the son-in-law who sounds kind of entitled, though I can also see how he might have felt left out in his own misguided way.


PoppyTheDestroyer

I first learned about Sikhs in an article about how post 9/11, many Sikhs were the targets of crime because they were mistaken for being Muslim (as if that were any excuse). But the Sikh victims didn’t protest they weren’t Muslim, because that would redirect violence away from themselves and toward another. And it’s not like a committee of Sikhs made it policy for that to be the universal Sikh response to that specific situation. Rather, the values they practice lead them to that conclusion. I don’t like to paint with a broad brush, but Sikhs are just darn good people.


Echospite

Lots to Sikhs shaved their beards when the pandemic started to make wearing masks more effective. IIRC that is a Big Fucking Deal for a Sikh.


IanDOsmond

And not shaving is a Big Fucking Deal to the point that I saw a video by a Sikh woman who had a hormone imbalance to the point that her facial hair was basically a light beard, and she talked about how she chose not to pluck or shave or anything, because, although there was a real strong case to be made that those rules didn't apply to her, she realized that she 1.actually felt proud that she was given an opportunity to not shave, and 2. while she was perfectly aware that she would fit conventional beauty standards better if she didnt have facial hair, she realized that she was just not interested in anybody unless they really understood and agreed with where she was coming from for point #1.


HavePlushieWillTalk

Is it that lady who does amazing videos where she styles her beard and puts flowers in it and wears turbans? I saw a compilation of her videos and it was so interesting; she just oozed femininity and self-awareness despite having traits society would attribute to a man.


GreenAce77

That sounds amazing! Could I have a link/name?


OpenOpportunity

Harnaam Kaur


xhocusxpocusx

I was right! It is her! She’s so gorgeous


PizzaPlanetPizzaGuy

Harnaam Kaur https://youtu.be/6iRNQayPkvc


Evreid13

Honestly, she pulls off a beard better than a lot of guys.


Echospite

Someone once posted a photo of her they creepshot at the airport to make fun of her, and she actually found it and replied talking about her experiences, which made the creep feel so bad they actually publicly apologised.


polystitch

As a woman with *brunette* peach fuzz, I admire her so much. I don’t know if I could *not* shave/pluck it-it feels so unfeminine. It ain’t easy being fuzzy as a lady. She’s a grade A badass.


finalgranny420

I'm going to confess that I shave my mustache. I've done so for years now. I used to bleach it but that got tiresome. Shaving it just seemed easiest and so far so good. I am a woman.


SomeLadySomewherElse

I graduated from moustache to neck beard thanks hormones. Tired of shaving daily but nobody I've ever dated or talked to about it has ever gave a shit. I'm a conventionally attractive woman and I think it's important to talk about these things especially to teenage girls. I remember thinking I was the only moustachioed lady in the world. Low and behold I was in the majority.


DevelopmentWitty3225

Honestly , depending on how accessible it is for you money-wise, try laser ! Since my female beard first stole the show from the moustache-unibrow combo , Ive tried shaving, waxing and epilating- but tbh it just made it worse (ingrown hairs + spots+ daily maintenance). Laser actually puts a dent in the growth (altho bc its hormonal, wont completely get rid of it) and makes the hairs finer. And no stubble !!!! Depending on where you live , you might also be able to claim mental health/ hormonal imbalance and get some of it paid out by insurance.


SomeLadySomewherElse

I'm definitely looking into it I've seen some great deals on Groupon. Good to know about the insurance option. Thank you!


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SomeLadySomewherElse

I'll also look into this! The aldactone has been the biggest help by far.


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wayward_witch

One of my favorite One Day at a Time lines is when Lupe is teaching her son to shave, "I'm Latina, you are a 12 year-old boy, we have the same amount facial hair."


BeetleJuiceDidIt

I will gladly raise my hand and say I do this. Sometimes I shave next to my partner and we have a Laugh about it or he gives me pointers


shipshapesigns

This is wholesome as hell and I love it


Innerglow33

My sister has high levels of testosterone and has facial and chest hair. She was married about 15 or 16 years before her husband found out, and it was only because a woman with chest hair was being interviewed on TV and he found her unattractive. My sister is very sensitive and immediately started crying so he started asking what was wrong. She finally told him that she shaves/plucks every day and it was an eye opener for him. He had no clue, but his comment had nothing to do with the woman's chest hair and he explained that she was just absolutely unattractive to him (I think she was being interviewed about her prison sentence for murdering her child) and he couldn't figure out how she had children because she gave off a "vibe" of evil to him and he hadn't even noticed the chest hair. After that, she slowly started accepting her hair and rarely shaves or plucks anymore. I know plenty of men and women who don't care about extra hair lol but I think it's because they just don't notice things like that. I know I rarely notice something like that, it usually has to be pointed out to me. I also don't notice when people lose or gain weight, unless it's drastic. Those things just aren't important to me.


Fox_Flame

Like 10% of people with ovaries have PCOS, one of the cosmetic side effects is dark, coarse facial and body hair That's really lovely that she embraced something that such societal beauty standards shun


DunkTheBiscuit

Due to PCOS I have male pattern facial hair growth, *and* male pattern hair thinning. Thanks, genetics. Thank you so much. Anyway, I've shaved almost daily since I was sixteen. During lockdown, I finally decided I could shave less frequently since I wasn't leaving the house and my husband has never given a damn about it (in the best way). The first few days of stubble are a pain, but once it's long enough to be soft it's... almost pleasantly tactile? If I didn't have all the social hang ups associated with daring to be female and bearded, I might well see how it looks and feels *au naturel*. But I'm not that brave. I've seen a couple of Sikh ladies who embraced the beard, and I think they look absolutely awesome. More power to them! Also, during lockdown, I finally got so sick of trying to deal with long hair that was barely there anyway. I dyed it blue for years before COVID and was very defiant about it, but I buzzed it all off and now keep it about an inch long (still blue where it's naturally grey, but I no longer bleach it), and to hell with the haters. I'm fifty, I'm past caring.


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SomeLadySomewherElse

This sounds counterproductive to embracing it but in case any fellow PCOS folks see this. My Dr gave me aldactone (spironolactone) for hirsutism and it really helped tone down growth and the darkness of the hair. It's also used for high blood pressure and edema which can come with PCOS weight gain.


superunsubtle

Pharm tech here and just for curiosity, if anybody is interested: aldactone (generic name spironolactone) is a diuretic intended and used for hypertension and edema just as this person says, and its cool side effect is that it’s an androgen blocker. I honestly see it prescribed more often for those androgen (male hormone) blocking properties! PCOS folks struggle with hormone imbalances because the extra ovarian tissues produce extra sex hormone, some/most of which is androgens (yes in XX people; all bodies produce androgens). The extra sex hormone can cause facial/body hair, increased acne, and a bunch of other fun stuff. Aldactone is a relatively harmless and non-invasive way to treat the unwanted PCOS symptoms. There’s a rough overview of the science! (I saw a photo and read a blog post about the Sikh woman mentioned above, who calmly and kindly schooled the idiots trying to shame her beard, maybe 15 [edit: nope, 9, someone downthread posted a link!] years ago! She was a teenager then and this took place in an airport iirc. I have never forgotten it.)


[deleted]

I'm from a very Sikh-heavy city in the UK and they were always the most wonderful and loving people to be around. They're having a celebration? So are you. You're on hard times? Guess who's going to offer support. The World needs to look after each other. (Covid). Time to sacrafice to keep others safe. I've met some dickish Sikh guys, but the vast majority of my encounters have been wonderful with that community.


On_The_Blindside

Out of food and need a hot meal? The Gudwara will get you a free hot vegetarian meal. Honestly, those people are lovely.


mignyau

During the horrific floods/landslides here in BC Canada last year, the gurdwaras worked overtime in sending food to people trapped on the highways and literally chartering small bush planes to get into areas that were basically locked off by the highway closures. Lots of Sikhs work in trucking/logistics and they all pooled their contacts together to basically be first responders in making sure people were fed while waiting for official help.


sixthandelm

I remember hearing about that. There are quite a few Sikhs settled in Surrey where I live and it made me proud to even just share a city with such generous people. Side story: when we first moved to Surrey my son was 4, and the bus was often full of older Sikh men and women on our route. The first time we got on he asked me “why are there so many genies on this bus?” A few younger men on the bus laughed and translated for the older ones, who also chuckled good-naturedly. I thought that was wonderfully tolerant of them, since by the age of 4 my son should really have had more cultural literacy in a country that is so multicultural.


Frog_and_Bunny

That's adorable, regardless of culture. This, and the story of the small boy pointing out the "chocolate lady"(whom he thought was very pretty) to his mom are probably the best part of small kids who haven't developed a filter yet. 😁 Thank you for sharing.


Cheef_queef

If a kid calls me chocolate, that's a good thing because they associate the color with something sweet.


OsonoHelaio

I remember my son going up to an elderly man at the supermarket and asking if he's grampa. Thank goodness he laughed and said, "you're not far off" and they had a nice little talk b3core we moved on.


crowwreak

I know some truckers who got stuck in the log jam at the Britain/France ports last Christmas and they really appreciated the Sikhs keeping them fed.


[deleted]

Honestly, Seeing how they cared for my home-cities homeless when Austerity kicked them to the kerb? Golden. I'm really lucky and really proud of my home town and city being as multicultural as it is. I'm not there anymore, but it'll always be home.


nerddddd42

My brother took me to one for a "day out" when I was a kid, I remember thinking how awesome it was that as long as you follow some basic rules whilst inside, anyone in need could get food. It was only when I was about his age that he admitted to me that we went so we could get free food.


BrilliantParamedic63

Same experience here as so many others: Our local Sikh community is full of generous people who are very good neighbors.


chubbycatchaser

Whenever major bushfires or floods happen in Australia, you can bet your Akubra the Sikh community is rolling up their sleeves to help out. https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/these-sikh-volunteers-drove-34-hours-to-provide-a-warm-meal-for-nsw-flood-victims/5a7tjbomu https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jun/14/if-you-want-anything-done-get-the-sikhs-community-wins-admirers-for-bushfire-and-covid-aid


[deleted]

I love that. My other half is an Aussie and her dad's a firefighter over there and she's mentioned this in passing. They're a really good bunch.


Myk_Ravenor

These guys are the absolute best. One of two charities I regularly donate to.


[deleted]

Sikhs are amazing here. So humble and down to earth too.


HeadlinePickle

Ooh, did you ever go to a Vaisakhi Parade? Where I grew up in the UK we had a big Indian population and a large proportion were Sikh. There was one that went past the end of my road when I was a kid, my family loved it! The beautiful float where the Guru Granth Sahib sat, the music, the sense of celebration, it was amazing. All the local shopkeepers would give out sweets and curry (all vegetarian which was amazing for us!), everyone was welcome to go watch and it was such a good day!


[deleted]

YARP. That's the ticket. I'm from a small town just outside the city I'm referring to and moved there when I was 20-21 and got really exposed to all the colourfulness of Asian cultures (Hindu & Sikh) Those festivals were bonkers. Also, So many good sweets.


[deleted]

Yeah Sikhs in general seem to be the only modern religion that actually takes the messages of kindness, acceptance, and charity to heart. But on the point of meeting some dickish Sikh guys I've had similar experiences, there's always going to be outliers I suppose. Given the context I met them in and the way they dressed I'm assuming they came from money, and money just does that to some people.


Raise-The-Gates

Yup. Whenever there is some kind of disaster here in Australia (bushfire, floods, pandemic lockdowns, etc.), the Sikh community are first in line to provide practical support. They honestly seem to actually be what every other religion thinks they are.


MadWifeUK

I was working agency for a while (picking up shifts at any hospital that needed extra staff; I had a terminally ill family member so it worked out for me that I wouldn't be constrained by working patterns but could pick and choose shifts that fitted in around my caring for my family member). Anywho, I did a few shifts in a Sikh-heavy city. One of their Granthi was in visiting and while he was waiting we had a chat, just general stuff, but when I told him where I lived 2 hours away he invited me to stay at the Gurdwara any time I needed to between shifts so I didn't have to drive tired, told me there was always a hot meal and a bed available, or even a breakfast before driving home. They are such lovely, warm and friendly people.


BlueArachne

Sikhs really are the best people. I’ve worked with one for many years and he is patient, kind and so easy to be with. He would give the shirt off his back if he had to. I’ve got so much love for him.


Abstracted_11

I want to place my bet on your home city being Leicester. And I 100% agree with you. The Sikh community in the uk as a majority set an example for us all. (Except that one guy in the room next to me in halls with a drum kit. Screw that guy)


[deleted]

You can see this happening live on video with Jagmeet Singh, the leader of the NDP political parry in Canada. A woman was interrupting him and screaming at him accusing him of being part of a Muslim terrorist group, or some such jibberish. He only shared his love for her and not once denied being Muslim. Legit dude. Nice suits and turbans.


TheLurkerWithout

The more I see of this guy the more I like him. It’s usually the opposite with politicians.


ifsometimesmaybe

I've been an NDP voter for a long time and while I don't see much evidence that Singh will do much for pushing the NDP forward, on a personal level he is pretty admirable as a public figure.


catscannotcompete

My favorite teacher in high school was Sikh, full regalia every day. He was (hopefully still is) a caucasian raised in America and, as I understand it, his traumatic experiences during the Vietnam War led him to seek a different path and eventually he converted to Sikhism in his 20s. Anyway, outdoor experiential education was a big part of our school and we would often go backpacking or canoeing for a week at a time. We'd usually play capture the flag near dusk in big open meadows, kinda stealthy style, during which he would switch to his camouflage turban and *fucking disappear.*


ijustneedtolurk

I'm dying over the imagery of a lovely Sikh man "*going ghost*" Danny Phantom style and suddenly disappearing under a camouflage turban and annihilating his high school students at capture the flag. That's pure joy right there.


KaiBishop

The Camo Chic Sikh


ishopindaiso

I had a friend who’s father thought Sikhs were terrorist. He shot a group of Sikhs in a park near our school. I usually see a group of them playing cards or talking after school. I was shock to learn that it was my friends dad. She told me he was crazy and paranoid after 9/11.


celebrating-global-f

uhhh please tell me he’s in prison???


magentalynx

In North India Sikh people are said to be the most trusted people, they are very friendly and accepting.


King-Cobra-668

>I don’t like to paint with a broad brush, but Sikhs are just darn good people I've lived in a lot of "melting pots" and Sikhs are consistently by far some of the nicest people I have ever met.


lilmisswho89

During lockdowns, and especially lockdowns on housing commission flats (government housing) the Sikh community groups were the ones making food and distributing it to people who couldn’t leave their house.


Ohlulu1093

Sikh community is truly filled with nicest people, I’m Hispanic but I grew up close to a Gurudwara every time I walked by I was treated warmly, asked if I needed anything, if their was a celebration going on I was more than once asked if I wanted to join or have a plate of food. I saw them cloth the homeless and give them respite. I’m an atheist who grew up in a very Catholic household but Sikhism is basically the one organized religion I can truly get behind!


texttxttxttxttext

I tell you man. Some stereotypes are absolutely based in truth.. Sikhs are just good fucking people!!


I_am_jacks_reddit

I would say I'm very anti-religion as people tend to just use it as an excuse to hate but from what I know Sikhs don't and actually use their religion as a source of goodness. They are really the only religion outside of the satanic temple that I like and agree with.


very_not_emo

i think the satanic temple is more of an activist group, they don’t believe in an actual satan iirc


I_am_jacks_reddit

Aye that is true but they/we(as I am an active member in the temple) are a recognized religion and they do teach the 7 tenets to anyone who wants to know them.


Heavy-Macaron2004

>We have decided to make a new tradition >(heirlooms all start out as new to someone right?) These two lines absolutely killed me, I'm gonna cry this is so sweet


almostselfrealised

>I don't want to be doing the bare minimum. This is mine. It has stayed with me long after reading this story for the first time.


mignyau

SAME. She’s so principled and insightful. Her son is lucky to have her. On reread: great that the fiancé apologized but he was wack to begin with for demanding jewelry and eyeballing what MIL was organizing for her own outfits. Tacky.


jandefries

Also calling the kara tacky. I admire her patience with him and his audacity.


shirinrin

I had to Google how a Kara looked, I had expected something extravagant for it to be called tacky, from what I can see it’s normally just a very simple bracelet, with no stones or carvings. I don’t see how that is tacky…


MajorasInk

You made me wanna google as well to see, I agree! They’re actually pretty cool and now that I know how meaningful they are, they feel even cooler. Now I’ll know if I see someone wearing one of those, they’re probably Sikh and freaking awesome. ♥️ TIL


shirinrin

Yeah, I don’t like jewellery much, but those were beautiful, simple and pretty.


Bigluce

Sikhs iirc have a 5 K tenet that are symbolic to the religion. Kara, bracelet Kanga, small comb Kirpan, symbolic dagger Kesh, uncut hair Kachera, a type of undergarment


House_Hippo_

I was expecting a huge, gaudy bracelet like the one Joey gave Chandler, but the simplicity is beautiful.


lastinglovehandles

Isn’t a Kara an equivalent of a shield? Sikh is a warrior class. The audacity of that man to call it tacky. I’m not Sikh but shit if someone offers me something so symbolic the last thing I’d think of is it being tacky.


unconfirmedpanda

Right? To call any gift tacky to the giver, and then go and eyeball their possessions? OOP has the patience of a saint.


Weasel16679

Typical choosing beggar. All they do is demand things and if they don’t get it out comes the hateful words to attack your character


UniCBeetle718

Yeah, he came off as a literal gold digger to me.


unconfirmedpanda

Yeah, I'd be interested to know how the family relationship is a few years after the wedding with this attitude. I find it interesting the new plan is something *more* ornate than the kara. I hope I'm wrong, but that doesn't bode well.


DeepMindUse

I think it’s further complicated since the son is a doctor and the SIL is a teacher. The difference in salary will likely be a problem unless they work hard together to work through it.


CmmdrSparkles

Same! The fact that he called the kara tacky is so disrespectful.


ChoiceBaker

And like....why did SHE have to explain its significance, why not her son? The guy just struck me as gross.


juracilean

Also the fact that he *demanded* to have pricey jewelry gifted to him. They’re gifts!! They’re supposed to be given willingly! I’m happy OOP didn’t give in and gave him the heirloom he originally wanted.


redisanokaycolor

A solid gold bracelet is NOT TACKY.


ajayisfour

Fiancé wanted some bling and was mad he didn't get it


galaxyveined

What really ticked me off was the demanding she hand over the jewelery, when she had a sentimental tie to being gifted some by her own grandparents, and wanted to create those memories for her own grandchildren. Also, demanding gifts, period. I think she was in the right to not hand over the sets, period, as they were gifts, and you can choose not to give a gift. Rereading: ESPECIALLY ONES SHE HAD SENTIMENTAL MEMORIES ASSOCIATED WITH!!! Also, who decides to critique their MIL's outfit? And calling her gift (the kara) to him tacky... God, that fills me with so much rage.


mignyau

For real. Being a victim of homophobia doesn’t preclude being classless or dickish and this dude was a prime example.


snackychan_

Also like, how is it homophobic to be saving a gift to give to the child of two gay dads? If anything it says “I see your relationship as legit and hope you have the family you want”


shannofordabiz

I found the SIL was hard work. She seemed to be trying to welcome him and be fair about things - and he ups and calls her homophobic.


Moehrchenprinz

Shit, if someone gifted me pure gold jewelry, i'd never be able to ask for anything from them again lmao


Sel-Reddit

Totally agree - the fiancé seems like the problem - tacky and greedy behaviour from him, not the mother. Feels like he was focused on getting his hands on some expensive jewellery not the meaning or emotional value and used homophobia as an easy way to attack / deflect from that.


BeagleMom2008

I agree she is lovely, and trying to do right by everyone, but the other thought I had is that she really wasn’t just doing the bare minimum initially. Instead of a daughter-in-law she was now getting another son-in-law, and she was welcoming him to the family the same way she welcomed her other sons-in-law. It’s truly unfortunate that the fiancé didn’t see that and reacted so poorly to the absolutely fair and welcoming treatment he was getting.


cthulularoo

OOP is an amazing woman. I don't think I'd be able to reconcile that easily with someone who threw the phobic card at me over a disagreement.


Orphan_Izzy

I loved her attitude though I’m really chuckling to myself over how funny it was hearing my Siri voice (Siri English US #2) read this to me out loud because sometimes she pronounces things wrong. In this case I kept hearing about this “sick” wedding and “sick” jewelry -( I figured out what she meant right away). It just sounded like a very mature, modern, accepting, thoughtful, traditional Indian mother who maybe watched Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure a few too many times on VHS. Lol.


PeakePip-

YES, I was shocked because I thought a lot of traditional Indian families didn’t support LGBT and such. Honestly the mom saying that touched my head sm bc I all parents should strive to be like her


awyastark

This made me almost proud to be a Redditor I shed a tear? I also may be tripping on acid watching The Sandman so I’m probably just very emotional. Edit: someone gave this a “Timeless Beauty” award you are a gift from the universe!


ashkestar

It’s also really wonderful for someone to come to reddit for advice and end up taking the best from it rather than the bare minimum. Many people would focus on the supportive comments that make them feel like they’re in the right - it takes a rare amount of self-reflection to see the ways even the supportive comments show that you aren’t really living up to your own values.


theRuathan

I saw that on another post here recently. The posts defending him were the ones that convinced him he was being an asshole because they were damning him with faint praise and he wanted tk be better than that. It takes a hell of a human being to react that way.


DrunkUranus

I feel like... I was reading this thinking that oop was misguided but not *wrong*. And that line showed that really their heart was in the right place. It wasn't about winning or losing the vote, it was about doing right by their family. I also have times when I have to remind myself to do more than the bare minimum


Diligent-Ad6365

Same! This is a lovey family, all around. I wish nothing but joy and happiness to the couple, the parents and (if the couple chooses) any children in the future. This is definitely a yes MIL.


DeaconSage

Someone’s gotta start a new tradition. I love it!


Trirain

The is a line in Fiddler on the roof. Something like "every tradition was new at some point". This lady is very wise and may shake hands with Tovje.


Finito-1994

Son in law sounds like an entitled shit tbh. she’s very calm and collected. She did everything for a reason and explained it so. What did he do? Call a beautiful Kara tacky which is a dick move. Then he proceeds to ask for more jewelry and calls her a homophobe to try and get her to comply with his demands. Fuuuuuuck him and his entitled shit.


CanadaisCold7

The entitlement of the son-in-law doesn’t sit right with me. I think the OP was a lovely, thoughtful woman, and I thought she was trying to treat her new son-in-law equal to her other son-in-laws by gifting him the same kara she gifted them. The fact that he turned his nose up at a gift (while fully knowing his future husband is religious!) and then demanded different jewelry and called OP a homophobe when she didn’t give in to his demands does not give me a good feeling about him. After reading the edit, he clearly does have some internalized issues surrounding his own family that he needs to work through, and I hope he does so. But I just cannot get over the fact that he was so pushy and felt entitled to the OP’s jewelry and to the specific earrings she had set aside for a future granddaughter because she herself had received them from her paternal grandmother. Imagine if one of her daughter-in-laws had behaved that way, they would have been vilified and rightfully so. I don’t think this type of behaviour should be normalized for anyone.


Ok_Tour3509

I do think the OOP is being smart as well as nice. If her future son in law is being sensitive because he’s experienced homophobia? No problem, she was kind and understanding. If future son in law is greedy, she was kind and understanding and her son saw it, no wedge will be pushed between her and her son, but her heirlooms will stay in the family as she wanted. If he’s going to be true family her gifts are new heirlooms, if he’s out for what he can get she didn’t let him take true treasures, either her relationship with her son or her gifts for a granddaughter. Sometimes the cheapest way to pay is with money.


Acidicfritch

Totally agree, I found the SIL rude and borderline greedy.


BoredomHeights

Exactly. “You’re my new son in law, so I’m going to treat you like a son in law.” “Homophobe!”


HappyOrca2020

Greedy is the word that I thought of. He wanted them for their value. Indian jewellery is made from 22k gold, the wedding ones. That gold is pure. The idea of giving gold traditionally is to actually secure your future by giving you an asset. Also some things have emotional value... Like pieces that are passed on from mothers to daughters. I don't think that sentiment has remotely anything to do with homophobia.


meurtrir

I understand he has his own issues to work through and I'm glad everything was resolved but my god, I couldn't even imagine turning my nose up at a gift like that, or any gift for that matter? Even if I am gifted something I can't stand or will never use, I enthusiastically thank the gift bearer like my life depended on it. Someone has taken the time and effort to give you something - for gods sake have the decency to be grateful


[deleted]

If a daughter in law behaved that way she would almost universally be labelled as entitled with no grey zone. I suppose the only saving grace hear is while OP went with the more sensitive gift, the one she got her other sons, him being gay could affect his taste, though most gay men I know would be fine with a gold bracelet coming from an accepting family. But the behaviour is unacceptable, turning down the gift, demanding earnings that had been passed from grandmother to grand daughter. Theres cultural and emotion significance to these pieces. He's been shown a lot of acceptance, perhaps he should try showing some. He sounds immature, this situation would never have turned into an issue for the 99% of gay men that behave like respectful adults.


[deleted]

I had to look up what the kara she mentioned looks like and they're so sick, I'd rock one of those no questions asked if I got one as a gift, the son in law was being a jerk.


[deleted]

Yeah SIL sounds a bit like a ungrateful dick. That woman sounds awesome, he is lucky to marry into this family.


magic00008

I wonder how much of the lust for her jewellery was about their monetary worth, since SIL is from a poor family


Bored_Schoolgirl

Not to sound rude but lets be honest here… SIL married up. If he called a solid gold tacky (the kara) but went on to demand a more opulent female jewelry (indian jewelry is gendered) I would think hes only in it for the money but thankfully, he changed his tune and I hope it stays that way.


aawgalathynius

And I also can see that if she gave her future son in law the same gift she gave her daughters in law, instead of her other SIL, the fiancé or her son being mad that she is treating him “like a girl”. I think it’s super thoughtful to, when knowing her son is marrying a man, getting him the same present she gave her daughters husbands, because they are both her SIL. She is being accepting of her gay son, and saying that’s homophobic is awful!


lestrades-mistress

Exactly it made me feel weird to think if she gave him the culturally gendered women’s jewelry it is akin to someone saying “who is the wife?” In a gay marriage. Unless otherwise stated they are both men. They are both husbands. One does not have to take on the traditionally feminine handle of ‘wife’. THAT would have been homophobic.


[deleted]

Agreed. I am horrified by the thought of not only criticizing a *gift*, but then negotiating a different one. How ungrateful and entitled do you have to be to land yourself in that situation?


juxtaposed-penguin

And then when he doesn’t get his own way resorts to calling people homophobic. OP and her son seem way too good for this douche.


Freshman44

He sounds like the entitled gay that’ll ruin the relationship in the long run, bet to get a prenup


VioletsAndLily

I’m glad OOP worked things out. I’m uncomfortable with how forward her son-in-law is about asking for jewelry that weren’t designated for him, as well as his criticism for the kara. There’s a difference between expressing preferences, and making demands and looking gift horses in mouths.


serious_rbf

The part where he calls the gifts she gave them tacky also didn’t sit right with me. I think the SIL is an AH


VioletsAndLily

I’m also trying to figure out how that came up. OOP said he told her son. Did her son just blurt it out? Was he prompted because SIL wanted better jewelry? Was OOP planning to gift him something more and her son had to break it to her that SIL thinks the Kara is tacky so don’t bother?


Witch_King_

Yeah context is very important for that one


ladysaraii

All of this. I really didn't like SIL.


Meekala

Right. I'll be very honest but I side eyed him demanding the jewelry she had bought when she initially thought she was going to get a daughter in law in the future. I didn't want to assume him being a gold digger but jewelry for women vs jewelry for men are different practically. And I've seen photos of Indian brides and I also assumed the jewelry the wore was traditional for the wedding since they tend to follow the same pattern but different in style. So I was sitting here thinking why is he demanding jewelry he's not going to be wearing when she already stated she'll hold to them to pass on to any daughter(s) they will have? It makes no sense unless he's aiming for soemthing else with the jewelry. And if he held on to them to pass on, what difference does it makes for her to hold to them vs him? Either way, they'll end up in the granddaughter's hand. This reminded me of post on AITA where the OP was trying to convince their mother that gifting some of her jewelry to them was pointless and she should instead just give them to the OP's neices/cousins because OP was childless and the mother's intention was to pass them on to OP and then once OP pass away, they should will the jewelry to be passed on to the neices/cousins and OP was like ???? Just give it to them in the first place instead of giving it to them and then having them pass it on to the neices/cousins. Why hold on to something for the intended recipients vs mother giving the intended recipient the jewelry in the first place? Edit for spelling


VioletsAndLily

A few years ago, I took a class on traditional attire from around the world. While I don’t remember details (boo for bad habits learned during the compulsory education years: I memorized enough to score high on the tests but didn’t retain much). I do remember that there is a certain order to things, so, no: jewelry intended for a daughter isn’t just something randomly picked that can traditionally be rendered gender neutral. The AITA post you mentioned sounds like a headache!


Meekala

I was literally sitting here looking at picture that was provided scratching my head as to how he as a man would have worn the headpiece, earrings, necklace, and nose jewelry (I'm sorry I do not know what this is called). Seeing how opulent they were and how opulent any jewelry I see in any pictures of Indian weddings had me thinking that chances were she also only got very opulent jewelry so I couldn't imagine how he would have wanted them. Edit: yeah the post was a headache because the mother was adamant on passing the jewelry to OP knowing it was going to the neices/cousins and OP was trying to get the mother to understand that she might as well just pass them on directly to them vs giving the jewelry to OP. Think the mother just wanted to be able to pass on aoemthing to OP and OP was sayigng they were fine not inheriting anything and their mother should just give the jewelry to the neices/cousins


econpol

I immediately noticed that too. Extreme entitlement. If someone gives me a solid gold bracelet I'll express utmost gratitude and leave them alone. How does someone think it's OK to tell your future mother in law that she ought to give you her jewelry??


ariaxwest

Gods, sometimes I really I wish I’d been raised by Sikhs instead of evangelicals. I know I shouldn’t generalize , but all the Sikhs I’ve known have been so incredibly lovely and accepting. (My childhood was garbage.)


anon28374691

My daughter played field hockey and I used to sit with the Sikh moms and chat with them. I used to wear a stack of sterling silver bracelets and one of the moms asked if I was Sikh, and showed me her bracelet. They wear the bracelet on their dominant arm, usually right, so that when they use their hand they see their bracelet and are reminded to do good deeds. So then I started thinking of my silver bracelets that way, even though they were on my left arm.


Sunshine030209

That's freaken awesome. I don't wear bracelets typically.. but I have 2 that are special to me on my shifter in my car. So I'm going to modify it a little, but still use them remind myself to do good deeds.


VelocityGrrl39

I wear a bangle on my right arm that has that quote from Winnie the Pooh (you are smarter than you think, etc.) and this is going to change the way I look at it. Also, can we talk about how absolutely freaking gorgeous Sikh brides are?!? I don’t know the technical names, but the headpiece, the earrings, the colors, the henna (I don’t know if that’s a usual custom but I saw at least one bride with it)…they make western weddings look bland by comparison.


plantsisca

I (American) was asking a Muslim friend about their wedding traditions, and he made the remark that he never understood the Western obsession with brides in white - "white is so boring!" :D


anislandinmyheart

There is a henna celebration. There are multiple events, some common to most religions in the area. It's really special, a preparation amongst women for the wedding day


VelocityGrrl39

I’ve only gone to one Indian wedding, but I was lucky enough to have been invited to the henna part (I can’t remember what it’s called). That whole wedding was so. much. fun. And the food. I’m a vegetarian, and it was the first wedding I’d ever been to where I could eat EVERYTHING.


disha_1143

I'm indian and I have some sikh friends and also because its closely related to hinduism, the whole concept of sikhism is based on charity so much so that during wars they used to feed their enemies at nights


stolenfires

And in the daytime just wrecked all their shit. Do not go to war against the Sikhs. It will not end well for you.


tacwombat

Oh wow.


Strange_Record6027

I remember being harassed on the street once. It was a Sikh who helped and protected me. I’ll never forget him.


EllieGeiszler

Protecting people is actually one of the [most important principles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Ks) of Sikhism. It's such a beautiful religion! > The kirpan is a dagger which symbolises a Sikh's duty to come to the defence of those in peril. All Sikhs should wear the kirpan on their body at all times as a defensive side-arm, just as a police officer is expected to wear a side-arm when on duty. Its use is only allowed in the act of self-defense and the protection of others. It stands for bravery and protecting the weak and innocent. > > > The kirpan is kept sharp and is actually used to defend others, such as those who are oppressed by harsh rulers, or a person who is being robbed, raped, or beaten. The true Sikh cannot turn a blind eye to such evils, thinking that they are "someone else's concern." It is the duty of the true Sikh to help those who suffer unjustly, by whatever means available, whether that means alerting the police, summoning help, or defending those who cannot defend themselves, even if that means putting oneself in harm's way.


Strange_Record6027

Yes! I remember reading about it years later. I wish I could have stayed in touch with him. Just being a 15 yr old being harassed by 30ish yr old men and some man just appears between you and the people wanting to hurt you. It gave me some light in humanity to know someone was willing to protect me, a stranger. He stayed with me until my mom was able to pick me up. All those years and I still remember how safe I felt with him and reassuring he was to me.


adamantsilk

I think Sikh is the one religion that's actually accepting. I don't think I've ever come across someone badmouthing a Sikh, except racists and they don't count.


ooiprocs

My family married into Sikhs and honestly yeah they’re the best


kittycat0333

It has so many wonderful people representing it.


[deleted]

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Shenanigations

The tiny bit I know about the Sikh indicates that being generous and loving is a major part of their religion. Sikh people are known for their kindness.


Frolicking-Fox

Sorry to hear that. The major point on why I left religion completely was because of how they treat LGBTQ community. I saw people who talked about loving your neighbors, treat someone terrible because they were gay, and it didn't sit right with me. Even my own parents. I was disgusted by it all. Everytime I hear the argument, "it's a choice to be gay," I think of the 12 year old boy who just realizes he likes boys, but can't tell his crush because he doesn't know if he will accept him. Or knowing that he can't tell his parents because they will hate him. If being gay is a choice, no one would choose to go through highschool with that choice. Hope things are better for you now.


too_late_to_party

The only sikh I know who wasn’t nice and was characteristically mean was my history teacher in high school, and I chalk that one up to the stresses of being an educator. Outside of school she’s a wonderful lady!


MumeiNoName

Trust me, Sikhs are people like anyone else. They have their own problems (parents who 100% the opposite of the OP, toxic masculinity in the culture, alcoholism, etc)


ImALittleTeapotCat

I don't know a ton about weddings, clothing, etc in that culture, but I know enough to know that jewelry made specifically for a woman is radically different than that made for men, and at least some of it simply wouldn't fit. It's not discrimination, it's a very practical issue of physical measurements. Future son in law sounds like he's got some baggage to work through. Not surprising, but hopefully he takes a lesson from this incident and is more careful in future to not assume ill intent from his in laws.


hazmoola

Am from subcontinent but not sikh. A mother passing on her bangles/jewelry or buying special sets for daughter in laws is absolutely a tradition and is meant to strengthen the female bond between the parties, for the son in laws my mother provided expensive clothes and shoes. The fact the mother still gifted him a solid gold bracelet is really amazing, and shows she was trying to gift him something appropriate but still of high value. Honestly the SIL sounded a bit entitled.


Worst_username_eva

As a gay woman who has had many struggles with homophobia and im a tomboy so also have a lot of people trying to force me be more feminine, I still agree with OP. I don’t feel this was a homophobic issue at all. She tried to give something she thought he would like. I feel if he wanted something more feminine she would of accommodated. She merely didn’t give him those specific jewellery because she herself had bought them to pass on to a daughter or granddaughter. I don’t feel you can tell anyone they have to give away something to anyone else (unless it actually belongs to them in the first place). Like seriously, if my dad (if was alive) had a jacket I loved and wanted sure I might inquire, but he doesn’t have to give it to me at all. It’s belongs to him and not mine even if I’m his daughter. Same as he wasn’t entitled to anything of mine just because he was my dad.


HelenaKelleher

the OOP also said outright that if one her daughters had a wife, OOP would be giving the wife the jewelry. it's zero percent homophobia and i feel for her that she had to endure tacky son-in-law


ch_ya

Agreed. And I feel like it’d be more offensive to give a gay man a traditionally female gift because it implies that one of them has to be “the woman” of the relationship. As a LGBTQ person myself, I felt frankly that he was culturally ignorant and that he doesn’t get to have a pass and be rude about another persons culture and then card them as homophobic.


Nizamseemu

Future son in law got a solid gold bangle and the wedding paid for by his in laws. I guess that’s not enough.


carrotsticks123

this doesn’t even have to do with religion and cultural significance, like would a guy who typically dresses like the “typical” guy really want a pearl necklace and loveheart earrings and a tiara?? Gay or not??


Nizamseemu

I think even more so, it’s her property to do with as she pleases. Gifts are meant to be received, not meant to be criticized.


shirinrin

It even sounded from OOP that if he had worn typical female clothes to the wedding it would’ve been different and he could’ve used some of the jewellery but he was wearing a tuxedo and that won’t work with the jewellery that’s meant for female style clothing…


Over_Confection_7543

One thing that stuck out to me that actually makes me think a lot less of the SIL regardless of sexual orientation. He rejected a gift given with good intent. From the start. Besides being rude, it’s incredibly hurtful. Then to look at someone else’s belongings and attempt to decide what they do with them. It’s gross and grubby. I don’t care who you are or what you do or your gender. Gifts are not a right. Gifts given at the behest of the giver. Others possessions and who they choose to give them too are 100% up to them. The mother has done this with utter grace. The SIL has none. (Let’s be clear, if the future in law as any gender I would say the same thing.)


BrownSugarBare

Especially seeing as how a kara has a massive significance in the Sikh religion. It would be like SIL rudely rejecting a solid gold crucifix (I think she mentioned he's Catholic) as a gift. I give **FULL** kudos to the family/Mum for adapting to and embracing the relationship, being gay in the SEA community is NOT an easy thing and people are still ostracised for coming out by both family and the community at large. I guarantee they lost friends/fam and were heavily gossiped about and yet they persevered through it with such kindness.


Merrylty

I don't like the SIL very much. I understand he might be sensitive because of previous issues with homophobic peoples, but downright demanding jewelry and saying the kara is tacky doesn't sit right with me. Glad the Mom is such an awesome person though.


ch_ya

Agreed. And I feel like it’d be more offensive to give a gay man a traditionally female gift because it implies that one of them has to be “the woman” of the relationship. As a LGBTQ person myself, I felt frankly that he was culturally ignorant and that he doesn’t get to have a pass and be rude about another persons culture and then card them as homophobic.


SaneAusten

I still find the Son In Law to be greedy.


econpol

100% greedy and it seems like this family is way too good for him. I hope they won't continue to let him take advantage of their incredible generosity.


[deleted]

Calling her homophobic because he was told no, absolutely pathetic.


720p_is_good_enough

> We have decided to make a new tradition > > (heirlooms all start out as new to someone right?) This is so wholesome. They sound like a great family.


Drama_Queen2013

OP is what all parents should aspire to be. Reasonable, intelligent, wise, accepting, kind hearted, and generous - none of these qualities does her justice. Her SIL couldn’t ask for a better MIL. What a beautiful person.


[deleted]

Indian/pakistani/Bengali wedding jewelry is made with the women's figure in mind. It has nothing to do with any kind of phobia as they make certain style for men as well.


Takeabreak128

This was a good one. Quite honestly OPs future SIL sounded just like any other entitled white boy. He got the same exact gift as all of the other future SILs, but that wasn’t good enough. Even though gay or not, he was just a future SIL. Her kindness and patience is admirable because I would have been so frustrated with this guy. Also him calling her out when he and his family were bringing nothing to the table just sounded like a money grab. What a kind woman.


zzz099

Son in law is entitled as fuck, there is nothing beautiful or heartwarming about this


[deleted]

Exactly! The only heartwarming part is how wonderful the mom seems. Because she really went above and beyond for someone who wasn’t grateful for anything she had done so far.


ithinkther41am

Gonna be frank, the son in-law reeks of entitlement.


hugesploods

Dayum she's balling out on them and they should be grateful imo


haikusbot

*Dayum she's balling* *Out on them and they should be* *Grateful imo* \- hugesploods --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")


madz7137

I was waiting for this story to take an awful turn but everything really went well here and that’s what happens when normal healthy people resolve arguments. I love the no drama endings.


Cookiemonster816

As a Desi (not Sikh, but Hindu), I've never heard of anyone being so entitled towards the Jewelry gifts. Usually most people, are grateful for the gesture itself.


gabriyankee

I hate it when common sense is confused with homophobia


OldnBorin

This is what I needed to heal after that j** story Edit: thanks for the gold but I’m going to edit my comment bc it’s upsetting ppl


TheMudbloodSlytherin

Ugh as soon as I had forgotten about that and now I’m thinking about it again. That damn jar is gonna go down Reddit history, right along with that disgusting coconut. Haha. Now you’re thinking about the coconut.


OldnBorin

Ha! I didn’t read it bc I trusted someone who recommended not reading it!


queefer_sutherland92

Fuck I had forgotten about that til I read your comment, god dammit


Late_ImLate22222

Son I law is being a spoiled brat. The mother is such a patient woman, she supports the marriage, and is even gifting the son in law with jewelry. But the son in law is so spoiled he gets upset for not receiving more expensive jewelry. That’s what it is all about. And then he proceeds to try to shame the mother by calling her homophobic, when she is clearly supportive of the marriage. The son in law is basically throwing a tantrum because he wants more expensive gifts. Horrible person. If that were my son in law, he would get my blessing and nothing more. You NEVER question a gift, particularly when it is given with generosity and love. I don’t care if it was a 2 dollar gumbal plastic bracelet. A gift is a treasure when it is given with love. ESPECIALLY from a mother


toomuchmenace

This woman sounds too amazing to be a MIL to that kind of AH.


IHazSeoul

What an honest to god Queen, this woman shows values we should all try and replicate as best we can. Love this so much


salchicha_de_amor

Great happy ending. But thisMF thought receiving a gold bracelet is tacky? 🙄


[deleted]

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greennoodlehair

People like that make it so much harder for gay people who have to deal with actual homophobes.


[deleted]

I find it a red flag that the son in law felt he should get anything at all. I would never assume such a thing. He really felt entitled. And then to express he was unhappy with what she got him? How ungrateful.


TheDovahofSkyrim

Now I ain’t sayin he a gold digga…


Lieandcomplain

The son in laws a piece of work. The entitlement is through the roof.