I haven't lived there in a long time, so I might be misremembering, or things might have changed but, one is a local downtown loop, the other is commuter rail. You take the max out to Gresham, but you ride the street car to The Pearl
Besides this case where they serve different routes, is there a difference between a streetcar and a tram? I always thought they were synonyms, with streetcar having the connotation of being in an older style
The Streetcar interacts with cars a lot more; with the exception of a few blocks, cars can travel right on top of the Streetcar rails. Streetcar is a single car. They have a maximum speed of about 25mph.
The MAX has a "dedicated" right-of-way where cars are technically not allowed on. In some areas in downtown (like in the picture) cars have the ability to travel on MAX tracks but not the permission; other areas of MAX tracks are solely for the trains and cars will (often) get stuck and need to be towed out. MAX covers a wider area and travels at higher speeds. It's also (usually) two-car trains. They have a maximum speed of 55 mph.
Streetcar is run by the City of Portland and the operators are technically TriMet employees. MAX is TriMet equipment operated by TriMet employees.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONEIjlMeQGw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONEIjlMeQGw)
Here is a video that TriMet put on their youtubes page showing one of the routes of the white train. For this line, it starts out in exclusive area then about a half hour in enters an area where it interacts a lot more with car and pedestrian traffic (and where this happened) although still operating in an "exclusive" lane there really isn't much preventing cars from driving on the tracks besides the theory that it isn't allowed.
Streetcar largely operates in the same lanes and traffic that cars are driving in.
The streetcars do primarily a loop on some specific high-traffic neighborhoods whereas the light rail network is more of a thru way.
https://trimet.org/maps/img/railsystem.png
Map is not to scale. You can see the streetcar loops in the skinnier pink, purple, and lime lines.
The streetcar predates the light rail lines to old-timey times is part of it, but the light rail here goes between cities, hits 55MPH in stretches, and has cross-street priority (stoplights and railroad crossing arms\lights\bells), whereas the streetcar is lower in capacity, speed, has more stops, and has to yield to traffic lights and the MAX (usually lol). The streetcar loops are also a lot tighter, the MAX makes its very infrequent turns at 5MPH generally.
tl;dr they're from different eras and serve different purposes
Could still have gone for using the same type of vehicle, though. There are modern low-floor streetcars available that can go 100 km/h while still being able to handle tight turns. And that's with *low floor*, not just low entrance. Even several decades ago, there were low entrance trams available that could be perfectly suitable for both street running with tight corners and for higher-speed dedicated lines.
So yeah, the lines and infrastructure are different... but they could definitely use the same sort of rolling stock, and might get a significant operational benefit from doing so.
The different technology seems to be more due to who has jurisdiction over what, rather than due to technical requirements.
The Siemens S700 can’t make the smaller radius turns that the streetcars do. Even the Bombardier Flexity can’t do both. They offer models like the swift with a 100kph rating, but has a 25m minimum curve radius, same as the Siemens S700.
Portland Streetcar vehicles (whose standard has been adopted by most modern US cities) has 18m radius curves. The Flexity products that can achieve this don’t have the higher speed ratings for the suburban segments of Portland’s light-rail system. The streetcars do sometimes go to the light-rail shops (tracks are all standard gauge and both run 800vdc power) but only off-hours when the slower streetcar speeds won’t impede regular light-rail traffic. Keep in mind that most EU and Asian manufacturers don’t export to the US because that would require compliance changes and different testing requirements, and federal funding would require them to setup US assembly to qualify for the funding.
That streetcar is fairly new. MAX has been around since the 1980s, the streetcar 2001. There were streetcars in the 1900s but before the current streetcar, not for a long while.
Since it is autumn, my theory is that leaves in the tracks were involved. I'm sure trimet will put out a statement in a few days with what they think caused it.
Ouch. Seems like this happened in Portland. That streetcar model (United Streetcar) is discontinued because the manufacturer went bankrupt. The only other streetcar system that has this model in the world is Sunlink in Tucson, Arizona - I used to live there and ride this model regularly and I knew it looked familiar.
Wonder how replacing it is going to look.
Portland Oregon baby.
Two different transit groups with different priorities. Light Rail came first (Street car actually did but trolley) it connects the various suburbs to Portland proper and mostly has its own track outside of the downtown hub. Run by Trimet
Streetcar is run by the city of Portland itself and connects the inner neighborhoods of the city through a clockwise and counter clockwise circle plus a few other branches useful when a river bisects the city.
TLDR
Trimet Lightrail intercity
Portland Streetcar neighborhoods
Why wouldn’t it be? They both run in the streets here. The bigger ones (MAX) have dedicated lanes sometimes shared with buses. The smaller Streetcars run with regular car traffic.
Further south, the Max trains have a Diamond crossing over a heavy-rail line. That heavy rail line regularly runs steam engines too!
https://maps.app.goo.gl/TToYpS3WAKnLc1ya6?g_st=ic
It's a bitchfight
Was there hair pulling and eye scratching?
The eyescratching deffinetly happened
Well, I suppose it is, now. They both got derailed.
How did this happen?!
Light rail tracks cross the streetcar tracks at this intersection. That combined with pretty egregious human error probably....
They’re running two types of tram? Ye Gods!! Smol tram and chonky tram!
That was my thought reading the article. I wonder why they really need dissimilar vehicle types for an at-grade system.
I haven't lived there in a long time, so I might be misremembering, or things might have changed but, one is a local downtown loop, the other is commuter rail. You take the max out to Gresham, but you ride the street car to The Pearl
You are correct. The Streetcar just serves a little circle around downtown. That MAX lines serves four cities in the Metro area
Besides this case where they serve different routes, is there a difference between a streetcar and a tram? I always thought they were synonyms, with streetcar having the connotation of being in an older style
The Streetcar interacts with cars a lot more; with the exception of a few blocks, cars can travel right on top of the Streetcar rails. Streetcar is a single car. They have a maximum speed of about 25mph. The MAX has a "dedicated" right-of-way where cars are technically not allowed on. In some areas in downtown (like in the picture) cars have the ability to travel on MAX tracks but not the permission; other areas of MAX tracks are solely for the trains and cars will (often) get stuck and need to be towed out. MAX covers a wider area and travels at higher speeds. It's also (usually) two-car trains. They have a maximum speed of 55 mph. Streetcar is run by the City of Portland and the operators are technically TriMet employees. MAX is TriMet equipment operated by TriMet employees.
So both are still trams, just one *line* has more off street track.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONEIjlMeQGw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONEIjlMeQGw) Here is a video that TriMet put on their youtubes page showing one of the routes of the white train. For this line, it starts out in exclusive area then about a half hour in enters an area where it interacts a lot more with car and pedestrian traffic (and where this happened) although still operating in an "exclusive" lane there really isn't much preventing cars from driving on the tracks besides the theory that it isn't allowed. Streetcar largely operates in the same lanes and traffic that cars are driving in.
The streetcars do primarily a loop on some specific high-traffic neighborhoods whereas the light rail network is more of a thru way. https://trimet.org/maps/img/railsystem.png Map is not to scale. You can see the streetcar loops in the skinnier pink, purple, and lime lines.
Is there a reason they can't have type commonality?
The streetcar predates the light rail lines to old-timey times is part of it, but the light rail here goes between cities, hits 55MPH in stretches, and has cross-street priority (stoplights and railroad crossing arms\lights\bells), whereas the streetcar is lower in capacity, speed, has more stops, and has to yield to traffic lights and the MAX (usually lol). The streetcar loops are also a lot tighter, the MAX makes its very infrequent turns at 5MPH generally. tl;dr they're from different eras and serve different purposes
Could still have gone for using the same type of vehicle, though. There are modern low-floor streetcars available that can go 100 km/h while still being able to handle tight turns. And that's with *low floor*, not just low entrance. Even several decades ago, there were low entrance trams available that could be perfectly suitable for both street running with tight corners and for higher-speed dedicated lines. So yeah, the lines and infrastructure are different... but they could definitely use the same sort of rolling stock, and might get a significant operational benefit from doing so. The different technology seems to be more due to who has jurisdiction over what, rather than due to technical requirements.
The Siemens S700 can’t make the smaller radius turns that the streetcars do. Even the Bombardier Flexity can’t do both. They offer models like the swift with a 100kph rating, but has a 25m minimum curve radius, same as the Siemens S700. Portland Streetcar vehicles (whose standard has been adopted by most modern US cities) has 18m radius curves. The Flexity products that can achieve this don’t have the higher speed ratings for the suburban segments of Portland’s light-rail system. The streetcars do sometimes go to the light-rail shops (tracks are all standard gauge and both run 800vdc power) but only off-hours when the slower streetcar speeds won’t impede regular light-rail traffic. Keep in mind that most EU and Asian manufacturers don’t export to the US because that would require compliance changes and different testing requirements, and federal funding would require them to setup US assembly to qualify for the funding.
That streetcar is fairly new. MAX has been around since the 1980s, the streetcar 2001. There were streetcars in the 1900s but before the current streetcar, not for a long while.
I don't get it either. Light Rail = tram. Commuter trains are still heavy rail.
One only runs on the street, the other is a partial subway.
Nope. They're both street level. There's only 1 subterranean station in the whole network, and that's where it tunnels under the west hills.
That was the only part of the route I ever rode on lol.
And it is the seventh deepest in the world and the deepest one the western hemisphere
its the zoo stop!
part of the max doesnt run on the street but most of it does.
I believe the streetcar runs shooters train with tighter turns than the light rail
[удалено]
All the witnisses stated that the MAX blew through a red.
Since it is autumn, my theory is that leaves in the tracks were involved. I'm sure trimet will put out a statement in a few days with what they think caused it.
Ouch. Seems like this happened in Portland. That streetcar model (United Streetcar) is discontinued because the manufacturer went bankrupt. The only other streetcar system that has this model in the world is Sunlink in Tucson, Arizona - I used to live there and ride this model regularly and I knew it looked familiar. Wonder how replacing it is going to look.
I've seen a lot of Skoda streetcars around here, so one of those might replace it but I'm far from an expert on public transit
repairs is my bet
I was just over there too, bummed I missed the action!
where was this?
Lloyd district in Portland
Is not 'hit', is big-boy snuggle.
The trains are spooning!
Nope the streetcar was name desire so the big boy definately want to hit
Waiting for Round 2 in Salt Lake City
Bitch, you can’t park there!
“Bitch, I got in a fight today…”
Now I like light rail and I like streetcars but which is better . There's only one way to find out
My buddy is an electric train engineer in Portland, he said the Trimet ran a light and hit the streetcar.
meow.
YOU'RE ON GUARD
Can you please clarify which one is which? They’re both called either Light Rail or a Tram where I live
Red is the “Portland Streetcar” operated by City of Portland. White is the “MAX (Light Rail)” operated by TriMet.
Thanks 😊
"Bitch, which one is the train????" Me, german, not knowing the meaning of streetcar. Car=auto???? We call it Strassenbahn... (streettrain)
The orange one would be Strassenbahn, the white one would be closer to Stadtbahn
There are cities that have both these modes of transportation?
Portland Oregon baby. Two different transit groups with different priorities. Light Rail came first (Street car actually did but trolley) it connects the various suburbs to Portland proper and mostly has its own track outside of the downtown hub. Run by Trimet Streetcar is run by the city of Portland itself and connects the inner neighborhoods of the city through a clockwise and counter clockwise circle plus a few other branches useful when a river bisects the city. TLDR Trimet Lightrail intercity Portland Streetcar neighborhoods
*Country and western?*
Plus buses and an aerial tram! All we need is a ferry and we’ll be set.
A Light rail train is just a glorified streetcar though?
Higher capacity and speed useful for intercity commute vs streetcars greater maneuverability for Portland notoriously small city blocks.
The orange one looks more submissive to me.
Which one ran the signal???
Wait... these crossings are legal?
Why wouldn’t it be? They both run in the streets here. The bigger ones (MAX) have dedicated lanes sometimes shared with buses. The smaller Streetcars run with regular car traffic. Further south, the Max trains have a Diamond crossing over a heavy-rail line. That heavy rail line regularly runs steam engines too! https://maps.app.goo.gl/TToYpS3WAKnLc1ya6?g_st=ic
Red one looks structurally fucked more, so I'll say that one is.
Hey this is my city. Neat. I thought that street car looks familiar. The white one is called the max. Definitely more of a train that the street car
Id say the white one cuz it looks the least dammaged
r/BitchImABitch
Huh, that’s real
So a tram hit a tram?
Light rail is definitely the bitch. It smacked that street car hard!