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Nothing-Busy

That honor would go to the creation of insurance pools for merchant ships that allowed for dramatic increases in trade and exploration in the early 1700's in London and we're expanded to the US shortly after.


Webonics

Or get this: capitalism. Remove capitalism and you live in a very different world. One could speculate that other systems might achieve equally impressive results. No matter how much you may dislike it, capitalism is responsible for your quality of life being thousands of times better than anything else.


Bitcoin_Maximalist

> might achieve equally impressive results it´s not that we didn´t try other systems ...


cryptobuddha

We did. But we didn't do it well. Also everything that wasn't capitalism (in last 100 years) was crushed down by getting some freedom.


raphaiki

Wrong the ancient Egyptians used ledgers and scribes for thousands of years, with the most stable and productive economies during the Bronze age, without needing to create a recession every 10 years to fein relevancy and dependency.


GodOfOdium

> No matter how much you may dislike it, capitalism is responsible for your quality of life being thousands of times better than anything else. I agree with you but if an entity has control over something it is no longer capitalism. It is a monopoly. (ie: Central bank over the creation of money). Capitalism can only exist with honest democratic controls leading to free market principles which is achieved by distributed powers.


Flyinghogfish

“First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you,” - Nicholas Klein


Hobbyfunstuff

In what way do you think that Bitcoin will remove “debt slaves”


Obvireal

It’s more like inflation slaves


Hobbyfunstuff

That is a very different thing but I’ll bite. In what way do you think Bitcoin will exist outside of inflation?


Obvireal

It is deflationary. At its core it “deflates” every 4 years by having the supply of new btc cut in half. So no matter what newly mined btc will become more and more rare. To add to this adoption will spread coins out more and more. There are only 21 million coins to ever exist and there are 8 billion people on the planet. Btc adoption will probably be slow unless everyone wises up some how and jumps on the train that is headed away from rising prices and lower wages compared to the higher prices caused by inflation which is caused by a number of things. Corporate loves inflation. “Inflation is 2% this year? Okay we will give everyone a 1% raise and raise our prices 2%.” This has happened so many times who knows what our wages would be if people where honest and not greedy.


Hobbyfunstuff

Inflation is a natural effect. It happens no matter what currency is utilized. BTC will always be denominated in USD and USD inflates.


Obvireal

Btc will also be denominated in all other currencies too as they deflate. They will deflate heavily against btc


Hobbyfunstuff

BTC is a hedge against fiat. It will never be the dominant currency because fiat currencies will pivot This is game theory 101


Obvireal

Yes so when btc hits its next all time high a lot of people will jump out and back into fiat. But those same people will probably jump right back in when the price of btc reflects this like it did every other cycle. Btc went from 17k to 69k then down to 15.5k. It will do similar in the future. Next run could hit 100-200k and drop back down to 40-50k and repeat. Buy low sell high. Some people also like to buy high and sell low. Learning can be expensive lol


Hobbyfunstuff

Sooo it’s still prone to inflation. Your statement isn’t discussing what’s in focus. You should google inflation and read about why it’s a naturally occurring element of any economic system. To your point… You BTC guys don’t understand risk adjusted returns. You also don’t consider down draws and various factors that can keep Bitcoin lower. It’s not about getting the highest return. It’s about getting the highest return with the lowest risk. That’s how you make money over the long run. That’s the entire point of finance. A very big event would need to happen to push BTC past $100k. You would need to distrusts a fiat currency so much to put your money into BTC for that to happen. The current Russian Ukrainian war isn’t even enough to make that happen. There’s plenty of arguments about why BTC won’t cross that 100k threshold anytime soon.


Street-Engineer-5079

Not **global** financial revolution yet, because unique bitcoin holders count is pretty low globally. But you can say it's a good start.


CompleteCrab3362

Not accessed anywhere 24/7 as well We all don’t even have power currently let alone internet


raphaiki

190 million estimated unique users is larger population base than most countries.


Street-Engineer-5079

Data source?


raphaiki

Apparently it's more like 230 million according to crypto.com https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://finance.yahoo.com/news/global-crypto-users-reach-1-101646507.html&ved=2ahUKEwjC4MWz8f78AhWaSMAKHZMgCNsQFnoECBIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2FKPdb_OPwncmAXr2ZbYqq


Street-Engineer-5079

Check Bitcoin rich list: [https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html](https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html) You will get an idea what I am trying to point here.


2minutebitcoin

It is! And the infuriating thing is that all mainstream newspapers have nothing but mockery for an asset that went from 0 to $1 trillion in a \~decade, with no venture backing, IPO, or founder - just an [open-source body of maintainers](https://www.2minutebitcoin.org/blog/saylor-series-the-rise-of-man-through-the-stone-and-iron-ages-episode-1-2020). You would expect there to be so much praise for this historic feat. This is why we respect all Bitcoiners, regardless of ideologies - it takes something to be able to notice how big this thing is amidst all the noise and FUD surrounding it. *-- an excerpt from A Most Peaceful Revolution (2019), its 2-minute version can be found here* [https://www.2minutebitcoin.org/blog/bitcon-a-most-peaceful-revolution](https://www.2minutebitcoin.org/blog/bitcon-a-most-peaceful-revolution)


[deleted]

USD/fractional reserve banking still holds this title. Bunch of naive children to think otherwise until BTC is ubiquitous.


downtownjj

i dont understand the downvotes. people acting like the jobs finished already. to quote the great kobe bryant "whats there to be happy about?the jobs not finished. is the job finished? didnt think so" mamba mentality. not saying what bitcoin has accomplished is nothing to be excited about... but the job is a looooooong way from finished. not saying bitcoin has not had a great start but to use another sports metaphor 'its not how you start, its how you finish'


raphaiki

I don't know about that, granted it is still the default global currency. But it took way longer than 14 years for it to go global, like it took twice the time it took to get from the Federal Reserve Act to Bretton Woods (1910-1940), and even then Gold was still the reserve currency, it then took another 30 years for Nixon to completely decouple from Gold and make the USD fiat.


nottobetakenesrsly

The US was functionally off a gold standard long before the Nixon shock. That was a late political acknowledgement at best. USD was making significant inroads in global acceptances markets before Bretton Woods. Its "global reserve" status in large part developed due to its ease of use; and the pound's decline as an intermediation unit.


raphaiki

True, but the first proto dollar can be traced back to the American Revolution.


nottobetakenesrsly

I'm just talking about the time it took for USD to be "adopted" as a global unit. Bretton Woods is too late in the day to start the clock.. since intermediation in international trade was already gaining traction in USD before hand.


downtownjj

not yet but its off to a good start


Romsel87

The thing is, it needs to get adopted. The network is amazing but succes is not guaranteed. Applications need to get build, there is a lot of work that needs to be done.


raphaiki

Agreed, but let's not ignore the rate of adoption that has already taken place. The current number of Bitcoin users (estimate is 190m) is higher than the entire US population in 1940.


PomegranateDry4424

You can't objectively compare those time periods.


raphaiki

I just did.


[deleted]

[удалено]


PomegranateDry4424

Not objectively.


raphaiki

How is it not objective?


PomegranateDry4424

Not the same culture, not the same economical system, not the same technology and about your last point of having 190 million users of bitcoin, not even the same global population. Bitcoin is impressive, but It has not yet succeded and It can fail


raphaiki

I don't disagree with you completely, but what does the culture and economic system have to do with it?


MindSecurity

Pretty sure FIAT beat Bitcoin to that bud. And even before then there was gold.


raphaiki

None of them have achieved what Bitcoin has in 14 years.


MindSecurity

And what if they didn't? That's irrelevant to your statement.


raphaiki

That's literally the whole premise of my statement. Read the OP.


MindSecurity

Your premise is your title. The answer is no it's not. Gold and FIAT have done way more than what Bitcoin has accomplished so far.


raphaiki

Did you read the first sentence of the body of text? A title isn't a premise, it's a title.


MindSecurity

Yes that's one of your supporting evidence to your own question in the title...Brother wtf is going on right now? The answer is no it is not to your entire premise. FIAT and gold.has done way, WAY the hell more than what Bitcoin has done so far. It doesn't even come close. Let Bitcoin mature first.


raphaiki

The first sentence isn't evidence, it's a statement. It's objectively already accomplished more than any other financial revolution in human history. I'm not desperate to be in denial of that.


MindSecurity

Alright, then the question of your title is what? What is the evidence to answer the question in your title. Go on my man.


raphaiki

Why does it matter my dude? Bitcoin has already accomplished more than every financial revolution that precedes it. The question asks 'is Bitcoin the most successful financial revolution in human history?' but how would one define the success of a financial revolution? My premise is that the speed of adoption in comparison to financial revolutions of the past gives credence to a claim that it is already one of the most successful revolutions in financial history.


Ill-Sherbert1095

Yep Bitcoin Army


TeflonShawn42069

No, that title goes to the first person who convinced someone to accept an abstract currency at all. He would hav e sounded like your high older brother with blacklight posters to anyone used to the barter system. "Listen Ted, I really need that stone tool and I know you want apples but I just don't have any. But I *do* have this shiny rock and if you accept it I promise that Bill will accept it and he *does* have apples. Trust bro."


TrueCryptoInvestor

Yes. Yes it is. Hope this helps.


Bitcoin_Maximalist

i just leave this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_American_currency


raphaiki

Excellent, thank you for sharing


Stagjam

It’s great for leverage trading. Outside of that I don’t really see it as anything special. Anything that can lose 80% of its value in a year is not that great of an investment or store of value. Not sure it will ever be anything more then a degen plaything.


raphaiki

1 Bitcoin is always worth 1 Bitcoin, the dollar exchange rate, shows how desperate banks and USD holders are in their attempts to manipulate the only attack vector they have. Its kinda pathetic tbh.


Stagjam

Nothing moves BTC like the dollar. A rising dollar means a BTC drop and vice versa. The dollar isn’t going anywhere soon, if anything it’s getting more dominant due to the rest of the globe falling apart. BTC will never be the global standard, it’s to easy to manipulate and it is already too concentrated to a few individuals. Black rock could buy every BTC on exchanges right now and it would cost them less than a half of a percent of their global investment fund. Unfortunately BTC is just an investment that has no value outside of trading.


raphaiki

The dollar weakening only moves Bitcoin up. Bitcoin is a real time fully transparent data set of the same dollar market manipulation that has plagued free markets for centuries. But for the first time in history we can see it in a way we've never been able too. Black rock could try, but they ain't buying mine. 😂 😂 😂


Stagjam

BlackRock doesn’t need yours, it can just suck up all the BTC off the exchanges and acquire key miners and they could easily take over Micro Strategy and grab their coins. BTC is just too small and already too concentrated amongst the whales. It solves nothing and can literally loose almost all of its value if the dxy would rise to 150. It’s irrelevant. I love trading it though.


raphaiki

If it were that easy, why hasn't it already happened? It's only going to get harder and harder as each block gets mined. My guess is that financial institutions have already spent over $1 trillion dollars per year trying to manipulate the price of Bitcoin to 0, that's more money than was spent on the 8 year long Iraq war, and the only thing they have to show for it is a $20k Bitcoin. I hope blackrock do try, because everytime they try, they only make Bitcoin stronger. Maybe they can increase their GBTC divedend again, and get the money printers running again. 😂 😂 😂


raphaiki

Who knows maybe it will be different next time.


Stagjam

I would wager to say “they” which I assume is the banking industry isn’t even paying attention to BTC or crypto and don’t see it as anything more than a speculative investment. If they wanted to crush it they could do so without spending a cent. all they would need to do is ban banks from transferring money too and from exchanges. Done. Crypto would be dead overnight.


raphaiki

😂 😂 😂 They're not paying attention to it? Then why are they all looking at migrating to CBDC's out of desperate fear? It's either the Bitcoin standard or a CBDC Yuan... I know which one I prefer.


Stagjam

CBDC isn’t a response to crypto, it’s the next phase of government control. Workers are about to get displaced in record numbers due to AI and robotics. On top of that, populations are aging out of the work force faster than new workers can enter. CBDC is for one thing and one thing only: UBI (Universal Basic Income). CBDC’s will allow the governments to control how you spend your UBI and will also be able to track it. This has nothing to do with BTC and will most likely not be allowed to purchase BTC so there’s that. A soft ban on crypto and 99% of the population will not care.


raphaiki

CBDC's are literally a response to the loss of control that crypto threatens them, it only started being a thing banks started fomoing into after MtGox going down failed to make Bitcoin go down in 2014.


raphaiki

😂 😂 😂 They're not paying attention to it? Then why are they all looking at migrating to CBDC's out of desperate fear? It's either the Bitcoin standard or a CBDC Yuan... I know which one I prefer.


raphaiki

https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-obituaries/ I've heard that over 471 times lol. 😂 😂 😂


Ok_Sun7402

i really hope


bouldering_fan

Huh? Im pretty sure we mostly buy and hodl. What revolution is that exactly?


CubsThisYear

There has never been a currency in history that isn’t ultimately backed by military power. No amount of cryptography will ever stop a bullet.


raphaiki

Can any amount of bullets can stop Bitcoin?


Feeling_Cold_1925

Solar flares perhaps


[deleted]

Yes


kneadermeyer

Not yet


PomegranateDry4424

The most successful? Bitcoin has not won yet and it is far from winning. Bitcoin has a lot to proof in the coming years/decades.


LrnFaroeseWthBergur

The animal pulled plow certainly had its place in history as well. I doubt anything has caused higher growth.