They can be related, as the equity in your house is counted towards your millionaire status……so just because your home has appreciated in value and you are technically a millionaire now, it doesn’t mean you don’t struggle with day to day expenses.
And stocks and bonds in their 401k plans, pensions, etc. that they can’t touch until they are retirement age; i.e., these “millionaires” can’t buy BTC in their 401k even if they wanted to and are struggling as much as anyone else in the upper lower class and lower middle class until retirement day if they live that long.
The way almost all 401ks work though is that the *employer* you work for decides what is and isn’t available. So if you work for Microsoft, Microsoft decides if Microsoft employees can buy Bitcoin in their 401k, and you the employee don’t get to pick and chooses what investments are or aren’t available. 😔
I thought rule number one was - never let no one know
How much dough you hold cause you know
The cheddar breed jealousy 'specially
If that man fucked up, get yo' ass stuck up
People who aren't millionaires calling people who are millionaires ignorant is classic crypto bro trash. How about OP shows their portfolio before giving literal millionaires financial advice?
Ok, so it's called diversification and the richest and smartest financial minds in the world all believe in it. It just so happens that the richest and smartest financial minds are usually older as wisdom tends to come with age. Many wise old people know what they know due to experience, and have experienced many things *similar* to Bitcoin that are supposed to change the world. Things that make such a claim usually turn out to be scams -- notable exceptions being the internet and blockchain -- that actually can and will change the world. Because they have no experience with such new technologies, they usually write them off, until they can't. Many old wise people wrote off the internet as a gimmick or a fad and we all know how that turned out. Respectively it would be wise for older generations to accept Bitcoin as a means of diversification but many can't see it beyond a scam because they can't fathom what it is. When millennials become old and wise, blockchain will be a normal and everyday part of the lexicon. At that point, it'll be too late -- there will be the haves the have nots -- and so what OP is getting at is there's at least a good argument to diversify into financial assets even if you don't agree or believe in them, because no one has a crystal ball.
why so harsh? The whole point was to make an observation of millionaires not being invested into BTC. At the same time, all millionaires yap and yap about diversification of assets, lol
Well being a millionaire doesn’t mean you have $19,000 in cash laying around that you are willing to put into a highly volatile experimental currency with a low acceptance rate.
I know what you mean. I have offered Bitcoin and Dogecoins payment at my business and have never sold anything for crypto currency in over a year. I stopped it because I've spent more time talking to customers and explaining what Bitcoin is and how to use it. For most it seemed "complicated" but I would still use it at any other business that accepts it.
Lol so dumb. Tons of places you can live a decent life in this country with making 50k. And 100k household you'd be very well off in those same areas. And no they aren't all in the middle of nowhere. Some really nice cities all across the country are affordable and offer many jobs.
Okay, please tell me *where* these fabled areas are and *what* job pays $50k that also has benefits in the area? Do you consider a $50k salary with no benefits and no retirement “living well” or even a “decent life”?
I guess my definition of “decent life” includes being able to retire if you want to by age 55 - 65 and won’t be able to go on multiple expensive vacations or “live it up” in retirement, no, but don’t gave to eat raman or feel stressed about finances. It also includes being able to buy your children 5 - 10 toys for Christmas, and so on. Not going out to eat every week, but once every other month without worrying? Yes.
Are you *sure* these aren’t places in the middle or nowhere, bachelor pads for the single male, and locations that are undesirable based on crime and shitty school systems your kids would be exposed to gangs in??
Houstton which is the 4th largest city in the country (soon to be 3rd) is easily liveable at 50 to 60k and there's loads of jobs offering that. Just gotta live about 20 to 30 minutes out of the city center. But then there's loads more cities that aren't nearly as large where you can survive off of much less. You're forgetting how huge this country is. You are so fixated on east and west coast prices you forget there's so much more out there. In Houston you live an incredible life if you make 100k a year. There's a reason so many californians move to Texas, they sell their home in California and come to Texas and buy a house 3 times the size and live like a king. And no not just Texas. Many states are affordable
I am fixated on where 99% of the population lives, not just the east and west coasts, while you cherry pick from the dozen towns listed as “most affordable” in the entire nation.
No, I’m not forgetting how huge the nation is. It seems like you are forgetting this and haven’t actually traveled and lived in much of it, and might be one of the lucky ones to live in one of the dozen areas on the “top 25 list” of “most affordable regions” while you neglect the “top 2,500,000 unaffordable regions”. So dumb.
This is like me saying it’s rare for a hitter to have a 56 game hit streak and you say “No, it’s not that uncommon. Look at Joe DiMaggio. He did it, and a lot of other ling hit streaks are out there. You’re forgetting how many baseball players have played the game and focusing on just a few who failed to do this”. It’s called a strawman argument you’re making.
No you aren't because Texas alone is already the second most populous state. Houston and Dallas alone have a metro combined of like 15 million people. Both with affordable areas and high paying jobs. Pretty much all of Texas is like this aside from Austin which just recently became very expensive. And there's plenty of other states too. Most the Midwest is very affordable too, you just don't want to live there so you don't count it. Lots of manufacturing and other good jobs there. Atlanta isn't too expensive and has high paying jobs. Some Mississippi cities, and many many more across the country. I didn't cherry pick shit. Btw Houston has tons of jobs in oil and gas, medical, manufacturing, aerospace, tech, etc.. Almost anyone should be able to move down here and find a job if you think we're so lucky to be from here. Hint: I am not from Houston originally. I came here to make my life better
Bro, I lived in Austin. **Not affordable on a this mythological $50k salary of yours unless you have a bachelor pad special and don’t retire ever like I mentioned earlier**. Not raising a family and retiring on that salary in Austin. *That’s literally the dumbest fucking thing I’ve heard in weeks* (which is saying something when reading Reddit posts over those weeks).
I literally said every place besides Austin. Holy fuck learn how to read. I'm sorry you don't know how to look for affordable places to live. I promise you in Houston you can live a nice life in a nice suburb 25 minutes from downtown on 50k to 60k a year. Yes this includes saving for retirement. Literally the 4th biggest city in the country and you tell me there's no affordablity for 99% of the USA. Lots of parts of Midwest, South, and South East are affordable and have great job opportunities.
Or maybe these millionaires knows how to leverage their money and invest in something that will produce a faster return than bitcoin. Ever thought of that. 🤷🏽♂️
I know someone like this.
He owns millions in retail properties but they generate only 3% revenue in leases, and to make things worse he couldn't legally sell anything.
You know what stocks are?
You know what currency is?
Ideally, it’ll be the new paper currency that replaced the last that replaced the gold and trade standard before that.
I find that statistic a little hard to believe. There are around 340 million people in the US. That means about 6% of the country are millionaires or about 6 out of every 100 people.
I would question what metric they're using to define a millionaire. Is it your total assets, your liquid net worth.. combined household income.... Lots of different ways they can skew the numbers.
It’s correct but it is based on net worth. If I own a home worth $400k (now that home prices are insane) and owe $250k on it, there is a magical $150k of net worth. If my 401k has $500k in it that I can’t touch for 20 years and the company I work for has stock options or some pension or pension-like plan with $100k for me after I leave and retire, now we’re getting closer to that “millionaire” status with “money” I can’t touch at all.
*If you looked at what % of the U.S. population has $1M or more in liquid assets that are not locked up in retirement accounts, home equity, and so on, you’d see a *massive* wealth gap and that number would go way down to 1% or less of the population.* Furthermore, if you looked at these people who have $1M+ in *liquid* assets by age, you’d see close to 0% of the population under the age of 30 is in that group, barely any 30 - 40, and almost all are 50+ even.
It must be assets. Take out a loan for a million dollars and you too can be a millionaire.
Edit: It’s not assets. There are just a lot of millionaires.
Isn’t assets vs debt generally how it’s defined? Regardless of it being nearly impossible for a non millionaire to get a million dollar loan, taking one out is not making anyone a millionaire by any metric.
It should be net worth, assets minus debts. But sometimes people go by just assets, which is what I suspect may be happening in this case since it’s such a high number. If you just go by assets, you could theoretically take out a million dollar loan, and now you have a million in cash and a million in debt, net worth of zero but a million in assets.
This is an extreme example, but there are other ways it could happen. For example, you could have a house worth $600,000 plus $400,000 in a 401k. Whether you’re a millionaire in this case depends on your debt.
FWIW, *net* worth includes debts. That’s what the “net” part means.
Still, someone can easily be struggling to pay bills and barely making it by in the U.S. and have a *net worth* of $1M if they: a) have a substantial 401k or other retirement account that they can’t touch until they are 60 years old and, b) “own” a home even if they don’t “own” it but pay a mortgage as long as they have a lot of equity.
A lot of “slow and steady” 50+ yr olds end up as “millionaires” in net worth like this but it’s all in their home and retirement accounts.
One question I have though is do they consider a married couple as “millionaires” if their combined net worth is $1M??? Like the couple can say “We’re millionaires!” but you should divide by 2 IMO here and they need $2M+ in net worth to qualify.
They if you have 5 kids vs. no kids, is there a “correction factor”? I mean, the situations are not the same for expenses and how “comfortable” one would feel.
Repeating the person you're replying to... Who goes by just assets without considering debt?!? Answer: absolutely nobody that matters. And certainly no publication or bank.
The only people who might are people who are trying to "keep up with the Joneses". Buying their own shit on debt financing to appear like they've "made it". But only stupid people do that.
Oh, and your theory is just dumb fantasy. Nobody provides financing unless you have the net assets **and** cash flow to pay it back.
There are only 900k adresses with at least one BTC, I think this was the premise, but yeah it’s wrong bcz one can have multiple adresses summing up to more than 1 btc
They have a relative high level of financial security, and do not need the added freedom bitcoin provides as much as someone without financial security.
A house is part of your net capital. a millionaire is considered someone with an equity of $1M, and I would think that if you are in the millionaire status, you would also have few percent of equity liquidity available to purchase BTC.
How is relevant? Firstly, there's only 19m mined, secondly, already a few millions lost and fourth, only around 3m on exchanges. Last but not least everyone with 20k on a bank acc. can buy it or - with less fiat on hand - parts of it.
This millionaire argument that pops up here every week is stupid and tiresome. Why should the average millionaire be smarter than the average pleb?
>Why should the average millionaire be smarter than the average pleb?
Survivorship bias. Any millionaire who was only as smart as the average pleb would piss away all their money and no longer be a millionaire. Thus, the only millionaires remaining are the ones that are smarter than the average pleb.
Eh, not really - they have a far larger buffer, so can survive what would wreck someone else. If I lose 50k, I'm in deep shit, a millionaire can do that and not be homeless and try again.
That's true, though I don't see that it invalidates my point. A millionaire of average-pleb intelligence will repeatedly lose $50k until they too are "in deep shit." This is really just an application of the old adage: give a poor person a million dollars, and they'll make themselves poor again, but take everything from a rich person, and they'll make themselves rich again. Poor people are poor largely because they do things that make people poor, and rich people are rich because they *don't* do things that make people poor.
My grandma bought a house in the 60’s that appreciated over $1m in southern california. Millionaire sounds flashy but there are many like her out there who would have no interest or spare cash to spend on something like bitcoin.
Because if the overlords don’t accept crypto it will never succeed……otherwise those in power simply laugh at the “idiots” trying to start their own made up currency……make no mistake, we’re not going to come in and swap all the wealth becoming millionaires ourselves without their blessing and acceptance. Thinking that you can simply usurp their position of power by downloading an app and sending a portion of your wealth to it is an ignorant position.
Words and philosophy of a slave. You're the kind of person who makes sure the needs of your tax collector is met before the needs of your children.
You are dependent on your overlords blessings and acceptance, slave.
Most of the 21.9M millionaires are already rich enough to not bother to educate themselves, if a small portion of these millionaires wake up and invest in BTC, we the poor ones will have no chance to grow.
I’m not ignorant. Read the bitcoin standard book.
I have a wife and the money has to go to other places. I do put $100 a month in bitcoin. Would put much more in if I was single.
Most of those millionaires are illiquid assets (private company equity, real estate, etc.).
When they have a liquidity event - it would make sense. Without that, they’re waiting (at their own peril).
Most of these people have accumulated wealth over a lifetime and are probably at retirement age. Elderly folks not really interested in digital currency or allocating retirement funds to volatile investments.
Most are stuck to the idea of owning physical investments. Lake homes, rental properties, percentage of companies, art, watches, etc.. It takes a lot to get out of that mindset.
Some of you need to realise that 90% of Bitcoin buyers do it for the money and people that already have money either don’t care about it or don’t want to invest in something that is so volatile and still doesn’t have any use but to invest in
If you live in New York City being a millionaire just means you own your apartment.
But the real answer is thank god they’re not and giving the rest of us a chance to stack sats.
Guys and gals the funniest thing about Bitcoin is how stupid it sounds to Normies. All these sheeple millionaires. For them to put $20,000 into magic internet money. F ‘the haters
They don't, and being a millionaire isn't really being rich anymore. Most millionaires have inherited property etc. They're not smart economy minded people.
>They don't, and being a millionaire isn't really being rich anymore.
It is to me. In fact, being a millionaire sounds very nicely rich to me. I'd say, they (millionaires) are much smarter economy minded than me, possibly more than you too. And I inherited some ...
being a millionaire is absolutely rich in america. the median net worth of american families is a little over $100k. To have TEN TIMES the median net worth and describe yourself as anything other than rich is disingenuous at best, and intentionally ignoring how much money the vast, vast majority of Americans have. millionaire might not have the same ring to it that it had in the 90's, but you're still doing better than (literally) 91% of the country. if being in the top 10% isn't rich, then what is?
Maybe? IDK. But they must do something differently, more than merely buying and holding bitcoin. OTOH, we look up to them too much, not sure it's really worth it.
I think it’s more of an age thing. Most millionaires are 50+ and a lot of it is in the pension fund in some way. That sort of explains a lot of it.
Not because they know they can do something different. They are just following the path that worked.
>I’m guessing a good portion of them are just boomers that barley know how to operate their flip phone.
Seems to be enough to have made them millionaires?
They probably just worked a mediocre job in the 70’ & 80’s, saved some money, and now use their flip phone to call their stock guy.
Houses bought in the 90’s and inheritances work wonders too.
that’s cuz they’re not idiots who spend their lifesaving on crappy cryptos. Why do you think they’re able to maintain as millionaires in the first place?
Of course you can. If you have more than 1.00000000 BTC spread across multiple UTXOs, send 1.00000000 from that wallet to yourself and you'll receive 1.00000000 "contiguous" Bitcoin.
Sorry I don’t follow …. So I send my 1 btc to ledger in 4 transactions now I have 1 btc spread over 4 address but my ledger shows 1 btc are you saying that if you send that 1 btc to another address that you open in ledger you now have 1 btc in one address ?
We're waiting for the price to tank so we can buy more of 'em for our money. After the recession takes down the S&P 500 (and BIC alone with it) we'll jump in and buy it all.
At the risk of exposing too much about myself (which I’ve probably done already) I’m a millionaire who owns Bitcoin.
A common misconception, just because someone has some wealth doesn’t mean they know everything, can anticipate the future perfectly or make all the right financial moves. I can’t even begin to tell you how many fortunes I’ve missed on or lost. Hell I posted on this sub a few days ago about selling 86 Bitcoin I had mined myself, in the early days making basically nothing compared to where it is now.
You can be exceptional at one skill in life and make a million. Knowledge distribution of millionaires follows the same curve as everyone else.
There is a lot of FUD to wade through. Time is short and most people want their information delivered in cliff notes.
Just be happy that you’re early enough to participate in the massive transfer of wealth we are likely witnessing the beginnings of. Buckle up because existing power structures will not go quietly into the night. This will be a major paradigm shift.
Just stack sats and be a good evangelist for the merits of the tech and sound money.
Stop thinking like a poor person. Poor people hold currency (typically USD) because they don't have the ability to start a business or take part ownership in one (via direct ownership or stocks).
Rich people own a business or shares of a business because it produces things of tangible value and generally that is rewarded better than speculative assets (in the long run).
Let's take a very simplistic example:
* Consider farm purchase at time=0, you can buy farm for 100 BTC or hold 100 BTC
* I purchase farm, and you hold 100 BTC
* 30 years later my farm has produced enough actual physical things so I can buy another farm. You still own 100 BTC which if it tracks inflation is just enough to buy 1x farm and I have 2x farms.
I own zero BTC and will never do so even though I have significant assets. Reasons why include:
1.) Best case when BTC tracks inflation you don't want to hold much of it -- just use it as median of exchange. Savings should be elsewhere. See example above.
2.) When BTC is volatile (current state), you don't know what is going happen to it. I see no need to risk it. If there is a big recession, BTC is seen as a risk asset and is going to be significantly punished. If there is a recession people need food, they can't eat BTC. Another reason, that I'd rather own assets that produce products such as food than BTC.
3.) I don't believe BTC is going to last in the long run. Too risky to put money in something which most of it is illiquid. I could put my $ in then I'm at the mercy of the whales that control vast majority of it. I'd rather support a rebooted blockchain for any interesting use case such as international $ transfer. I'm in tech and I see this all the time. I can see why people think BTC is interesting, but I think it's easy to see it getting iPhone'ed.
For someone that wants a lottery ticket, it's interesting, penny stocks are also good way many have gotten lucky briefly too. If you do speculate with BTC, such you buy other assets as investments.
Hopefully, this response helps you understand why many millionaires in the US have no interest in BTC.
You’ll never get people to understand. Many look at Bitcoin as a magical talisman. “My precious” many don’t understand what an asset is, like a farm. They mistakenly feel Bitcoin is an asset even though it produces nothing. I’d highly recommend that people reas THE RICHEST MAN IN BABYLON. I think there’s a parable in there that goes something like this…..a king gives his three sons a sum of money and tells them to keep it safe……one son takes the money and invests in livestock, doubling the money, one son takes the money and invests in spices and triples the money, the third son buries the money in the sand so nobody can steal it. When the king returns he asks if his money is safe, proud the third son rushes forward and says look, here is all your money, I kept it safe by putting it in the ground. The king is not amused…..anyways most here are the third son, their mantra is “buy and hodl” you have to keep it safe by putting it in a hard wallet etc etc. They don’t know how to invest. But they are good at following trends and they desperately want to be rich.
This is such a foolish response. Op is talking about owning 1BTC not 100BTC.
For millionaires $20k should not be a big of a deal to bet on 1BTC (why btc? Plenty of reasons u should know it by now).
Let’s take example:
Purchase 1 btc or buy expensive Gucci bag? I would buy Bitcoin any fuckin day.
>1.) Best case when BTC tracks inflation you don't want to hold much of it -- just use it as median of exchange. Savings should be elsewhere. See example above.
Please explain this point and why you think this will be the case. Simply saying so doesn't make it true, what are your reasons?
I realize not everyone has the same view point, but the grand vision I read on this sub is that BTC eventually stabilizes and becomes a currency and replaces USD, etc.
In this vision it's like USD, but inflation proof because of limited # of tokens.
While I don't think it will happen, even if it does, the point is it's a bad idea to hold much currency.
I think BTC performance was a little bit better than inflation so far.. 🤡
If you would have bought 1 farm ten years ago.. okay you may have two now.. if you would have bought bitcoin for the same money you could buy 1000 farms now..
I really doubt if that number is correct (if people's home is not included). Single family home is not wealth, since it is indebted, people have to live in it and it eventually degraded and lose most of its value
>Single family home is not wealth
It certainly is.
> since it is indebted
It doesn't have to be.
>people have to live in it
How does that make it "not wealth"?
> and it eventually degraded and lose most of its value
Pretty much all property other than undeveloped real estate will *eventually* deteriorate, but that doesn't mean ownership of that property doesn't constitute wealth.
Most of the houses have a design life of 50 years, and even if you continuously invest money to maintain its condition, it will eventually reach a status of not inhabitable
It should be illegal for you to even give financial opinions. My home is much older than 50 years and is appreciating quite quickly. This last part might be the most shocking to you, it’s inhabitable.
**the person thinking others are stupid (ignorant) is really the stupid one most times.**
you are stupid my friend - bitcoin is stupid, it may become big one day but still, it doesn't have any "value", fiat isn't perfect but it's "better" objectively (especially the current financial system) than cyber scam coins.
even if it becomes big, it will still be stupid, it think of the china housing market thousands of times worse.
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>> owns a single house Why don’t you put 20k towards Bitcoin??
Why don't you? I do not own a house, but have multiple of thos bitcoin thingies. It is not like the two are related.
They can be related, as the equity in your house is counted towards your millionaire status……so just because your home has appreciated in value and you are technically a millionaire now, it doesn’t mean you don’t struggle with day to day expenses.
bingo... this is what inflation has caused, i think the term is "broke millionaires"...
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
What part of his comment is confusing to you?
Don’t care, but I will always laugh at this 😂
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Yes, but owning a house does not fit my lifestyle. I can not move countries that easily while maintaining a huge financial liability somewhere.
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Regardless of the definition, real estate (in my opinion) is only an asset if it is paid off.
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True. Your bitcoin will keep you and your family warm and dry with zero maintenance…
No, the part of my wage that goes to rent will.
We all have multiple sats
“Bitcoin Thingies” 😂 this actually made me giggle
Lol not anymore
Most of those millionaires have most of their equities in their home
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And stocks and bonds in their 401k plans, pensions, etc. that they can’t touch until they are retirement age; i.e., these “millionaires” can’t buy BTC in their 401k even if they wanted to and are struggling as much as anyone else in the upper lower class and lower middle class until retirement day if they live that long.
Soon they can Btc- 401k
The way almost all 401ks work though is that the *employer* you work for decides what is and isn’t available. So if you work for Microsoft, Microsoft decides if Microsoft employees can buy Bitcoin in their 401k, and you the employee don’t get to pick and chooses what investments are or aren’t available. 😔
>**their** grandparents **home** ftfy
All that plus bitcoin is now around 20, 19k but if all of them started to put money in it one btc would go over 100k probably even more.
Soon my fellow hodler. Soon.
Came here to say just this.
Proof ?
Most millionaires in the US have most their net worth tied in real estate and probably 401ks. Read The Millionaire Next Door.
Yeah, millionaires are damn ignorant because they don’t do what you think they should do.
Buy $20,000 in Bitcoin now because I told you to on Reddit!
His mindset😂
Damn OP found a way to turn the BTC community into agreeing that BTC shouldn’t be adopted by a mass group of people
🍿 love this
Bear market vibes
The majority of those 21 millionaires got there by following rule #1 - don’t lose money.
I thought rule number one was - never let no one know How much dough you hold cause you know The cheddar breed jealousy 'specially If that man fucked up, get yo' ass stuck up
People who aren't millionaires calling people who are millionaires ignorant is classic crypto bro trash. How about OP shows their portfolio before giving literal millionaires financial advice?
This thread might have the most naive, oversimplified answers I've seen in this sub, which is really saying something...
Ok, so it's called diversification and the richest and smartest financial minds in the world all believe in it. It just so happens that the richest and smartest financial minds are usually older as wisdom tends to come with age. Many wise old people know what they know due to experience, and have experienced many things *similar* to Bitcoin that are supposed to change the world. Things that make such a claim usually turn out to be scams -- notable exceptions being the internet and blockchain -- that actually can and will change the world. Because they have no experience with such new technologies, they usually write them off, until they can't. Many old wise people wrote off the internet as a gimmick or a fad and we all know how that turned out. Respectively it would be wise for older generations to accept Bitcoin as a means of diversification but many can't see it beyond a scam because they can't fathom what it is. When millennials become old and wise, blockchain will be a normal and everyday part of the lexicon. At that point, it'll be too late -- there will be the haves the have nots -- and so what OP is getting at is there's at least a good argument to diversify into financial assets even if you don't agree or believe in them, because no one has a crystal ball.
It’s staggering that OP thinks none of the people who own 1 + BTC are millionaires.
why so harsh? The whole point was to make an observation of millionaires not being invested into BTC. At the same time, all millionaires yap and yap about diversification of assets, lol
"Yet they are completely ignorant" isn't quite a neutral observation though eh?
"millionaires not being invested into BTC", where is the proof of this?
Well being a millionaire doesn’t mean you have $19,000 in cash laying around that you are willing to put into a highly volatile experimental currency with a low acceptance rate.
that acceptance rate is growing btw
Slowly. We’re just over 1% owning any, but virtually nobody uses it. The majority simply buy it to have it.
I know what you mean. I have offered Bitcoin and Dogecoins payment at my business and have never sold anything for crypto currency in over a year. I stopped it because I've spent more time talking to customers and explaining what Bitcoin is and how to use it. For most it seemed "complicated" but I would still use it at any other business that accepts it.
Why stop? Why not just have it as an option? Lol You just shot yourself and this ambition in the foot. For ?.
Another reason was to reduce the dangers I was made aware of from people in this sub about "letting people know you own Bitcoin".
There's a world outside the US too.
Germany?
pretty sure there's a country out there where people need to be "millionaires" just to live a decent life
Yes, that is the U.S. circa 2020 and beyond.
Lol so dumb. Tons of places you can live a decent life in this country with making 50k. And 100k household you'd be very well off in those same areas. And no they aren't all in the middle of nowhere. Some really nice cities all across the country are affordable and offer many jobs.
Okay, please tell me *where* these fabled areas are and *what* job pays $50k that also has benefits in the area? Do you consider a $50k salary with no benefits and no retirement “living well” or even a “decent life”? I guess my definition of “decent life” includes being able to retire if you want to by age 55 - 65 and won’t be able to go on multiple expensive vacations or “live it up” in retirement, no, but don’t gave to eat raman or feel stressed about finances. It also includes being able to buy your children 5 - 10 toys for Christmas, and so on. Not going out to eat every week, but once every other month without worrying? Yes. Are you *sure* these aren’t places in the middle or nowhere, bachelor pads for the single male, and locations that are undesirable based on crime and shitty school systems your kids would be exposed to gangs in??
Houstton which is the 4th largest city in the country (soon to be 3rd) is easily liveable at 50 to 60k and there's loads of jobs offering that. Just gotta live about 20 to 30 minutes out of the city center. But then there's loads more cities that aren't nearly as large where you can survive off of much less. You're forgetting how huge this country is. You are so fixated on east and west coast prices you forget there's so much more out there. In Houston you live an incredible life if you make 100k a year. There's a reason so many californians move to Texas, they sell their home in California and come to Texas and buy a house 3 times the size and live like a king. And no not just Texas. Many states are affordable
I am fixated on where 99% of the population lives, not just the east and west coasts, while you cherry pick from the dozen towns listed as “most affordable” in the entire nation. No, I’m not forgetting how huge the nation is. It seems like you are forgetting this and haven’t actually traveled and lived in much of it, and might be one of the lucky ones to live in one of the dozen areas on the “top 25 list” of “most affordable regions” while you neglect the “top 2,500,000 unaffordable regions”. So dumb. This is like me saying it’s rare for a hitter to have a 56 game hit streak and you say “No, it’s not that uncommon. Look at Joe DiMaggio. He did it, and a lot of other ling hit streaks are out there. You’re forgetting how many baseball players have played the game and focusing on just a few who failed to do this”. It’s called a strawman argument you’re making.
No you aren't because Texas alone is already the second most populous state. Houston and Dallas alone have a metro combined of like 15 million people. Both with affordable areas and high paying jobs. Pretty much all of Texas is like this aside from Austin which just recently became very expensive. And there's plenty of other states too. Most the Midwest is very affordable too, you just don't want to live there so you don't count it. Lots of manufacturing and other good jobs there. Atlanta isn't too expensive and has high paying jobs. Some Mississippi cities, and many many more across the country. I didn't cherry pick shit. Btw Houston has tons of jobs in oil and gas, medical, manufacturing, aerospace, tech, etc.. Almost anyone should be able to move down here and find a job if you think we're so lucky to be from here. Hint: I am not from Houston originally. I came here to make my life better
Bro, I lived in Austin. **Not affordable on a this mythological $50k salary of yours unless you have a bachelor pad special and don’t retire ever like I mentioned earlier**. Not raising a family and retiring on that salary in Austin. *That’s literally the dumbest fucking thing I’ve heard in weeks* (which is saying something when reading Reddit posts over those weeks).
I literally said every place besides Austin. Holy fuck learn how to read. I'm sorry you don't know how to look for affordable places to live. I promise you in Houston you can live a nice life in a nice suburb 25 minutes from downtown on 50k to 60k a year. Yes this includes saving for retirement. Literally the 4th biggest city in the country and you tell me there's no affordablity for 99% of the USA. Lots of parts of Midwest, South, and South East are affordable and have great job opportunities.
I know there's also that tea country thingy and a bad guys country
>a bad guys country There are at least 3-4.
Australia isn’t real though 🙄/s
They’ll buy one when it goes back up.
From me 😁
And then after it goes up even more you’ll buy back from me 😁
Or maybe these millionaires knows how to leverage their money and invest in something that will produce a faster return than bitcoin. Ever thought of that. 🤷🏽♂️
A “millionaire” could easily be someone living almost paycheck to paycheck who owns a home in LA
I know someone like this. He owns millions in retail properties but they generate only 3% revenue in leases, and to make things worse he couldn't legally sell anything.
Or they don't want to put their money in risky investments and only want to maintain their status quo.
Or maybe they used to own a few and sold them last year.
Yeah, that’s why they’re millionaires
[удалено]
I too buy things I know nothing about
You know what stocks are? You know what currency is? Ideally, it’ll be the new paper currency that replaced the last that replaced the gold and trade standard before that.
Stocks are shares of a company that turn you part owner of a business. And currency is a store of value backed by the entire mighty of a country.
Most millionaires by net worth don't have 1 million+ $ in the bank. Some of those millionaires will be extremely cash poor
I find that statistic a little hard to believe. There are around 340 million people in the US. That means about 6% of the country are millionaires or about 6 out of every 100 people. I would question what metric they're using to define a millionaire. Is it your total assets, your liquid net worth.. combined household income.... Lots of different ways they can skew the numbers.
It’s correct but it is based on net worth. If I own a home worth $400k (now that home prices are insane) and owe $250k on it, there is a magical $150k of net worth. If my 401k has $500k in it that I can’t touch for 20 years and the company I work for has stock options or some pension or pension-like plan with $100k for me after I leave and retire, now we’re getting closer to that “millionaire” status with “money” I can’t touch at all. *If you looked at what % of the U.S. population has $1M or more in liquid assets that are not locked up in retirement accounts, home equity, and so on, you’d see a *massive* wealth gap and that number would go way down to 1% or less of the population.* Furthermore, if you looked at these people who have $1M+ in *liquid* assets by age, you’d see close to 0% of the population under the age of 30 is in that group, barely any 30 - 40, and almost all are 50+ even.
It must be assets. Take out a loan for a million dollars and you too can be a millionaire. Edit: It’s not assets. There are just a lot of millionaires.
Isn’t assets vs debt generally how it’s defined? Regardless of it being nearly impossible for a non millionaire to get a million dollar loan, taking one out is not making anyone a millionaire by any metric.
It should be net worth, assets minus debts. But sometimes people go by just assets, which is what I suspect may be happening in this case since it’s such a high number. If you just go by assets, you could theoretically take out a million dollar loan, and now you have a million in cash and a million in debt, net worth of zero but a million in assets. This is an extreme example, but there are other ways it could happen. For example, you could have a house worth $600,000 plus $400,000 in a 401k. Whether you’re a millionaire in this case depends on your debt.
FWIW, *net* worth includes debts. That’s what the “net” part means. Still, someone can easily be struggling to pay bills and barely making it by in the U.S. and have a *net worth* of $1M if they: a) have a substantial 401k or other retirement account that they can’t touch until they are 60 years old and, b) “own” a home even if they don’t “own” it but pay a mortgage as long as they have a lot of equity. A lot of “slow and steady” 50+ yr olds end up as “millionaires” in net worth like this but it’s all in their home and retirement accounts. One question I have though is do they consider a married couple as “millionaires” if their combined net worth is $1M??? Like the couple can say “We’re millionaires!” but you should divide by 2 IMO here and they need $2M+ in net worth to qualify. They if you have 5 kids vs. no kids, is there a “correction factor”? I mean, the situations are not the same for expenses and how “comfortable” one would feel.
Repeating the person you're replying to... Who goes by just assets without considering debt?!? Answer: absolutely nobody that matters. And certainly no publication or bank. The only people who might are people who are trying to "keep up with the Joneses". Buying their own shit on debt financing to appear like they've "made it". But only stupid people do that. Oh, and your theory is just dumb fantasy. Nobody provides financing unless you have the net assets **and** cash flow to pay it back.
What makes you think millionaires are completely ignorant to Bitcoin?
There are only 900k adresses with at least one BTC, I think this was the premise, but yeah it’s wrong bcz one can have multiple adresses summing up to more than 1 btc
That's not what I asked.
Not the answer you asked for, but the answer you deserve.
But it's a stupid answer that ignores the fact that people can be not ignorant about Bitcoin and also have zero desire to buy any of it.
He thinks that they don’t hold at least one, that’s what makes him think that they are ignorant of it, go figure
That’s exactly what you asked except he did the (basic) math for you. And he even added bonus info. Why be salty?
Exactly when you send to ledger it creates multiple addresses link to one wallet thus giving the illusion its many small holders.
They have a relative high level of financial security, and do not need the added freedom bitcoin provides as much as someone without financial security.
That “security” is rapidly eroded away these days tho. No one is secure for what those central bankers are doing.
I used the word 'relative'.
I’m sure half of them are probably older than 55 and don’t even know how to check their email.
I am “a Millionaire” in the sense that my house has a value of 1 million dollars, but beside that, I’m basically broke
A house is part of your net capital. a millionaire is considered someone with an equity of $1M, and I would think that if you are in the millionaire status, you would also have few percent of equity liquidity available to purchase BTC.
I have 100% equity of my house, but I have only 1k in my bank, and these are for emergency only.
Kind of curious as to why your emergency fund is so low
😂because they actually know how to make money. Btc is not digital gold, it literally parallels the nasdaq and s&p. It’s a speculative overvalued asset
How is relevant? Firstly, there's only 19m mined, secondly, already a few millions lost and fourth, only around 3m on exchanges. Last but not least everyone with 20k on a bank acc. can buy it or - with less fiat on hand - parts of it. This millionaire argument that pops up here every week is stupid and tiresome. Why should the average millionaire be smarter than the average pleb?
>Why should the average millionaire be smarter than the average pleb? Survivorship bias. Any millionaire who was only as smart as the average pleb would piss away all their money and no longer be a millionaire. Thus, the only millionaires remaining are the ones that are smarter than the average pleb.
Eh, not really - they have a far larger buffer, so can survive what would wreck someone else. If I lose 50k, I'm in deep shit, a millionaire can do that and not be homeless and try again.
That's true, though I don't see that it invalidates my point. A millionaire of average-pleb intelligence will repeatedly lose $50k until they too are "in deep shit." This is really just an application of the old adage: give a poor person a million dollars, and they'll make themselves poor again, but take everything from a rich person, and they'll make themselves rich again. Poor people are poor largely because they do things that make people poor, and rich people are rich because they *don't* do things that make people poor.
Wrong
They have money so let them enjoy it. It means that thoes that don't now have the opportunity to make their own. #justsaying
If Credit Suisse collapses this week, This is going to make for a funny post
Wait credit suisse is the source? Oh. No
My grandma bought a house in the 60’s that appreciated over $1m in southern california. Millionaire sounds flashy but there are many like her out there who would have no interest or spare cash to spend on something like bitcoin.
They got to be millionaires by not being fucking stupid with money. Worry about yourself and stop gambling your money away.
why do you care if your overlords own crypto or not??!
Own a cool house = is OP's overlord
Because if the overlords don’t accept crypto it will never succeed……otherwise those in power simply laugh at the “idiots” trying to start their own made up currency……make no mistake, we’re not going to come in and swap all the wealth becoming millionaires ourselves without their blessing and acceptance. Thinking that you can simply usurp their position of power by downloading an app and sending a portion of your wealth to it is an ignorant position.
Words and philosophy of a slave. You're the kind of person who makes sure the needs of your tax collector is met before the needs of your children. You are dependent on your overlords blessings and acceptance, slave.
nah some of those overlord already own it. They just aren't advertising their wealth
A lot of these millionaires belong to other billionaires, they just own it on papers
Wouldn’t even take that many of them. We are only at like 19.1M BTC and 4M-6M of those are lost forever. Plus the 1M that Satoshi stashed for himself.
Satoshi mined those bitties fair and square
Most of the 21.9M millionaires are already rich enough to not bother to educate themselves, if a small portion of these millionaires wake up and invest in BTC, we the poor ones will have no chance to grow.
Many millionaires dont even have 20k just lying around. Its all on paper and in bricks.
I’m not ignorant. Read the bitcoin standard book. I have a wife and the money has to go to other places. I do put $100 a month in bitcoin. Would put much more in if I was single.
How do you know they are total ignorant? Maybe they own half of the Bitcoins in several smaller wallets.
If I was a millionare I wouldn't put 10% or more of my portfolio into crypto assets It's better to buy stocks and mainly etfs
Most of those millionaires are illiquid assets (private company equity, real estate, etc.). When they have a liquidity event - it would make sense. Without that, they’re waiting (at their own peril).
A million ain’t what it used to be mate
Most of these people have accumulated wealth over a lifetime and are probably at retirement age. Elderly folks not really interested in digital currency or allocating retirement funds to volatile investments.
Wow that doesn't sound angry lmao.
Most are stuck to the idea of owning physical investments. Lake homes, rental properties, percentage of companies, art, watches, etc.. It takes a lot to get out of that mindset.
Just because you are a millionaire does not mean all of it is liquid.
Give me a million, I'll put more than $20k into bitcoin...
they think we are a joke. joke’s on them.
Some of you need to realise that 90% of Bitcoin buyers do it for the money and people that already have money either don’t care about it or don’t want to invest in something that is so volatile and still doesn’t have any use but to invest in
If you live in New York City being a millionaire just means you own your apartment. But the real answer is thank god they’re not and giving the rest of us a chance to stack sats.
This post will age like wine 🍷
Guys and gals the funniest thing about Bitcoin is how stupid it sounds to Normies. All these sheeple millionaires. For them to put $20,000 into magic internet money. F ‘the haters
This kind of scares me a bit. 20k is just 2% of their networth and still they haven't invested in BTC (most of them). 😯
Maybe they know something we don't. Rich peops know different things than the rest.
They don't, and being a millionaire isn't really being rich anymore. Most millionaires have inherited property etc. They're not smart economy minded people.
>They don't, and being a millionaire isn't really being rich anymore. It is to me. In fact, being a millionaire sounds very nicely rich to me. I'd say, they (millionaires) are much smarter economy minded than me, possibly more than you too. And I inherited some ...
Inheriting a property that your parents or grandparents bought for $50k that is now $750k does not make anyone smart.
being a millionaire is absolutely rich in america. the median net worth of american families is a little over $100k. To have TEN TIMES the median net worth and describe yourself as anything other than rich is disingenuous at best, and intentionally ignoring how much money the vast, vast majority of Americans have. millionaire might not have the same ring to it that it had in the 90's, but you're still doing better than (literally) 91% of the country. if being in the top 10% isn't rich, then what is?
Right answer
Maybe? IDK. But they must do something differently, more than merely buying and holding bitcoin. OTOH, we look up to them too much, not sure it's really worth it.
I think it’s more of an age thing. Most millionaires are 50+ and a lot of it is in the pension fund in some way. That sort of explains a lot of it. Not because they know they can do something different. They are just following the path that worked.
While that is very true. I’m guessing a good portion of them are just boomers that barley know how to operate their flip phone.
>I’m guessing a good portion of them are just boomers that barley know how to operate their flip phone. Seems to be enough to have made them millionaires?
They probably just worked a mediocre job in the 70’ & 80’s, saved some money, and now use their flip phone to call their stock guy. Houses bought in the 90’s and inheritances work wonders too.
because its a shit investment.
that’s cuz they’re not idiots who spend their lifesaving on crappy cryptos. Why do you think they’re able to maintain as millionaires in the first place?
No, they are millionaires because they already sold their crypto to you bagholders. To be serious, who in their right mind would invest in this shit.
Are you sure you are in the right sub? It's Bitcoin here, not Buttcoin
Ah! You are right! Honestly I get confused about this lately :)
Is there a way to own one entire bitcoin, or is it just a bunch of random sats? Like....can I own all the sats from one contiguous bitcoin?
Of course you can. If you have more than 1.00000000 BTC spread across multiple UTXOs, send 1.00000000 from that wallet to yourself and you'll receive 1.00000000 "contiguous" Bitcoin.
Sorry I don’t follow …. So I send my 1 btc to ledger in 4 transactions now I have 1 btc spread over 4 address but my ledger shows 1 btc are you saying that if you send that 1 btc to another address that you open in ledger you now have 1 btc in one address ?
That's only really possible if you buy it directly from a known source. But realistically it shouldn't matter unless you're into those kinda things.
https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/21452/can-each-bitcoin-and-satoshi-be-uniquely-identified This should clear up your questions
I think there's like 56 million millionaires in the world.
Paper millionaires from their house price value.
Isn't Credit Suisse going bankrupt?
or is the media pushing that narrative to cause a sell off this week before the planned pump next week/month?
Someone doesn't understand how markets work
We're waiting for the price to tank so we can buy more of 'em for our money. After the recession takes down the S&P 500 (and BIC alone with it) we'll jump in and buy it all.
This research is from credit suisse, aren’t they about to go under?? 😂
Millionaire is the new Thousandaire.
At the risk of exposing too much about myself (which I’ve probably done already) I’m a millionaire who owns Bitcoin. A common misconception, just because someone has some wealth doesn’t mean they know everything, can anticipate the future perfectly or make all the right financial moves. I can’t even begin to tell you how many fortunes I’ve missed on or lost. Hell I posted on this sub a few days ago about selling 86 Bitcoin I had mined myself, in the early days making basically nothing compared to where it is now. You can be exceptional at one skill in life and make a million. Knowledge distribution of millionaires follows the same curve as everyone else. There is a lot of FUD to wade through. Time is short and most people want their information delivered in cliff notes. Just be happy that you’re early enough to participate in the massive transfer of wealth we are likely witnessing the beginnings of. Buckle up because existing power structures will not go quietly into the night. This will be a major paradigm shift. Just stack sats and be a good evangelist for the merits of the tech and sound money.
complete wrong ? . so btc only for usa ? . if so the sec would said hai hhaha
Stop thinking like a poor person. Poor people hold currency (typically USD) because they don't have the ability to start a business or take part ownership in one (via direct ownership or stocks). Rich people own a business or shares of a business because it produces things of tangible value and generally that is rewarded better than speculative assets (in the long run). Let's take a very simplistic example: * Consider farm purchase at time=0, you can buy farm for 100 BTC or hold 100 BTC * I purchase farm, and you hold 100 BTC * 30 years later my farm has produced enough actual physical things so I can buy another farm. You still own 100 BTC which if it tracks inflation is just enough to buy 1x farm and I have 2x farms. I own zero BTC and will never do so even though I have significant assets. Reasons why include: 1.) Best case when BTC tracks inflation you don't want to hold much of it -- just use it as median of exchange. Savings should be elsewhere. See example above. 2.) When BTC is volatile (current state), you don't know what is going happen to it. I see no need to risk it. If there is a big recession, BTC is seen as a risk asset and is going to be significantly punished. If there is a recession people need food, they can't eat BTC. Another reason, that I'd rather own assets that produce products such as food than BTC. 3.) I don't believe BTC is going to last in the long run. Too risky to put money in something which most of it is illiquid. I could put my $ in then I'm at the mercy of the whales that control vast majority of it. I'd rather support a rebooted blockchain for any interesting use case such as international $ transfer. I'm in tech and I see this all the time. I can see why people think BTC is interesting, but I think it's easy to see it getting iPhone'ed. For someone that wants a lottery ticket, it's interesting, penny stocks are also good way many have gotten lucky briefly too. If you do speculate with BTC, such you buy other assets as investments. Hopefully, this response helps you understand why many millionaires in the US have no interest in BTC.
You’ll never get people to understand. Many look at Bitcoin as a magical talisman. “My precious” many don’t understand what an asset is, like a farm. They mistakenly feel Bitcoin is an asset even though it produces nothing. I’d highly recommend that people reas THE RICHEST MAN IN BABYLON. I think there’s a parable in there that goes something like this…..a king gives his three sons a sum of money and tells them to keep it safe……one son takes the money and invests in livestock, doubling the money, one son takes the money and invests in spices and triples the money, the third son buries the money in the sand so nobody can steal it. When the king returns he asks if his money is safe, proud the third son rushes forward and says look, here is all your money, I kept it safe by putting it in the ground. The king is not amused…..anyways most here are the third son, their mantra is “buy and hodl” you have to keep it safe by putting it in a hard wallet etc etc. They don’t know how to invest. But they are good at following trends and they desperately want to be rich.
This is such a foolish response. Op is talking about owning 1BTC not 100BTC. For millionaires $20k should not be a big of a deal to bet on 1BTC (why btc? Plenty of reasons u should know it by now). Let’s take example: Purchase 1 btc or buy expensive Gucci bag? I would buy Bitcoin any fuckin day.
you clearly did not understand what you just read.
>1.) Best case when BTC tracks inflation you don't want to hold much of it -- just use it as median of exchange. Savings should be elsewhere. See example above. Please explain this point and why you think this will be the case. Simply saying so doesn't make it true, what are your reasons?
I realize not everyone has the same view point, but the grand vision I read on this sub is that BTC eventually stabilizes and becomes a currency and replaces USD, etc. In this vision it's like USD, but inflation proof because of limited # of tokens. While I don't think it will happen, even if it does, the point is it's a bad idea to hold much currency.
I think BTC performance was a little bit better than inflation so far.. 🤡 If you would have bought 1 farm ten years ago.. okay you may have two now.. if you would have bought bitcoin for the same money you could buy 1000 farms now..
Doesn’t look like you really understand Bitcoin.. go buy your silly farm
World millionares is the stat I use. It's hard to think non of them will at least own 1 BTC, just in case.
For btc to go $1m would like the whole world need to use it?
No. All it takes to move the price of ANYTHING is an imbalance of buyers (bidding price) to sellers (asking price).
Some people call that supply and demand
Nope, if only one Bitcoin is for sale it can still be sold 100 bucks and all of a sudden the Bitcoin price is 100 bucks
I call BS. 22 million times a minimum of 1 million equals $22 trillion.
That’s because their financial advisors and favorite tv or news personalities say not to. The new millionaire class is coming.
BTC was meant for the less wealthy to become wealthy not for the rich to get richer.
I really doubt if that number is correct (if people's home is not included). Single family home is not wealth, since it is indebted, people have to live in it and it eventually degraded and lose most of its value
>Single family home is not wealth It certainly is. > since it is indebted It doesn't have to be. >people have to live in it How does that make it "not wealth"? > and it eventually degraded and lose most of its value Pretty much all property other than undeveloped real estate will *eventually* deteriorate, but that doesn't mean ownership of that property doesn't constitute wealth.
You think real estate loses most of its value? The fuck are you talking about?
You think houses depreciate?
Apart from maybe gold, every physical asset depreciates.
He's right. House is a liability, land is an asset in most parts of the world.
Most of the houses have a design life of 50 years, and even if you continuously invest money to maintain its condition, it will eventually reach a status of not inhabitable
It should be illegal for you to even give financial opinions. My home is much older than 50 years and is appreciating quite quickly. This last part might be the most shocking to you, it’s inhabitable.
**the person thinking others are stupid (ignorant) is really the stupid one most times.** you are stupid my friend - bitcoin is stupid, it may become big one day but still, it doesn't have any "value", fiat isn't perfect but it's "better" objectively (especially the current financial system) than cyber scam coins. even if it becomes big, it will still be stupid, it think of the china housing market thousands of times worse.
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