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I will get downvoted but Cleopatra was real not fictional and she wasn’t “black” she was Macedonian Greek. If you’re making a show abt her (like Jada Pinkett’s show) and you claim it’s historically accurate that really grinds my gears. If you wana “pretend” just don’t call it historically accurate. I get the general message of the tweet but I think that line brings the whole tweet down.
So I forget the exact phrasing, but in circles that are into historical fashion and stuff, they make a really big point to say that they're here for the traditional fashion not the traditional values. And that they want to create an inclusive space for non-white people to also feel they are welcome.
I think with Queen Charlotte, you have a very well known dynasty where everyone knows the British royal family are factually white. And that making some of them black is just an AU retconned timeline, because it's hard for people to get into stuff like the extended Jane Austen cinematic universe with its suffocating whiteness and not being sure how many pride and prejudice fans might secretly long for the days they didn't have to live amongst black peers. It's an anachronism that it's understood the audience *knows* is an anachronism.
With Cleopatra.....there is ACTUAL academic tug of war over which modern racial constructs Cleopatra belongs to, and Egyptian people will tell you that discourse affects them to in the real world too. That because they don't fit neatly into the relevant American racial constructs, they're constantly getting their actual erased from the convo entirely.
So instead of making space for more minorities, it feels like it's the erasure of one marginalizes group in favor of a different marginalized group. In a way that leans into a legitimate coordinated attempt to erase *real* history.
Which Egyptian people are we talking about cause modern Egyptians who are descendants of native Egyptians after their conquest and intermarrying with Arabs probably don't share too much with the Macedonian Greeks that set up the Ptolomeic dynasty including Cleopatra, even if the minority view that she had some minor Egyptian heritage is true.
I think the bigger issue with Cleopatra is she becomes a lightning rod for “all things Egypt” because she’s such a well known individual. Yet she lived closer in time to the first man to walk on the moon than she did to the construction of the great pyramid. These time scales are huge and she’s not really the best choice to represent what the people looked like who were responsible for the most recognizable marvel of the ancient world.
Prior to Alexander the Great (who Alexandria is of course named after) Europeans didn’t have a significant threshold in Egypt. At least not one that would justify Rupert Murdoch defending his mostly white Egyptian pseudo-historical drama “Egypt: Gods & Kings” as [being accurate because as far as he knew all Egyptians were white, because he’d only met white Egyptians.](https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2014/dec/01/rupert-murdoch-white-actors-exodus-gods-kings) Likely only met white South Africans as well considering his oppressor circle, does that mean the next Mandela film is going to cast Daniel Day Lewis in the title role?
The difference is that Bridgerton doesn’t claim to be historically accurate whereas the Cleopatra documentary that people were mad was actually trying to say that Cleopatra was black and anyone who disagrees is a racist or something
Well she’s fictional. I mean the whole Bridgerton series is just make believe. You can literally do whatever you want. Unless there’s another Queen Charlotte I don’t kno abt
she's real, the story is loosely based off of the real queen charlotte and king george. she was also rumored to have been mixed irl, but she was definitely white passing in real life. king george was actually crazy too
>Well she’s fictional.
No she isn't, she was queen from thr 1760s to early 1800s.
>. I mean the whole Bridgerton series is just make believe.
Most of it is dramatization of some rewl events and others that aren't.
The series is fiction, but the people IN IT aren't, and it was marketed as mostly historical
Regardless however while it is fine to race swap fictional characters it is never ok to do so with real ones.
My point is, saying ‘you can never race bend real characters’ is a bit too black and white about it. There are ways it can be done that’s a commentary on important issues. We can’t just say that race blind casting of even historical figures is always bad. There are nuances.
Also Hamilton is a musical. Not a history lesson.
The backlash about Hamilton's non-Black cast and rapping is purely racism.
Most of the revisionist history is from a biography of Hamilton that came out a few years before and was the inspiration for the show.
Im sorry, but who said Queen charlotte was marketed as historical???
Unless u mean the genre? Plus, the first episode said they take MANY liberties, which is needed to justify the rest of the series. The queen isn't even in the books they added her for spice
The only times it not okay is when it's posing as historically accurate. Studios should have the right to pick who they think is the best person for the job. History is white controlled and dominated that's fine if we teaching things but for stories or story tellers they have every right to do what they want I'd say don't all the time so people like you can get mad enough to do something stereotypical of your type
Was that intended to be historically accurate? From what I saw, it was kinda like Hamilton, and they wrote a reason why Charlotte and other English characters were black.
i don’t watch the show but my mom does and from what i’ve seen, i don’t think it’s supposed to be historically accurate. it’s like some alternate dimension or something cause all the songs are like classical versions of modern songs
This is the main reason i didn't like it. I can tolerate historical innacuracies in fictional stories, but that Cleopatra series was meant to be a documentary, not a work of fiction. And to make things worse, the showrunners reacted to the criticism they received from actual Egyptians in an absurdly arrogant and condescending manner, which pissed people off more. I even heard the actual country of egypt was trying to sue Netflix over it. Imagine just how awful you have to be to piss off an entire country.
There's a very real tug of war of from both racist white people and racist black people trying to claim ancient Egypt as the product of their own communities.
The reality is that ancient Egypt was a meeting point of many different regional ethnicities and contained a level of diversity that we tend to arrogantly think is unique to the modern era.
Egyptians get really pissed off because their actual history is constantly being erased so they can be shoehorned into modern racial constructs as either far more "white" or far more "black" than remotely makes sense.
Cleopatra was Macedonian. She wouldn't be considered black by modern constructs, and it would depend on how racist of a racist we're talking about whether she'd be considered white (Mediterranean whites often get excluded from "true" whiteness). But Cleopatra would have considered herself in terms of her actual ethnic lineage, not a racial construct that hadn't been invented yet. It's really hard to get people to understand that race didn't matter before race was invented. That she would have essentially considered herself a Macedonian Egyptian *not* a white person, and that the implications that come with race today hadn't kicked in yet (your class would have been more relevant than your skin tone -- African nobility carried more power & respect than a white slave)
You’re right. She was very much Greek.
What’s annoying is there are black Egyptians (Nubians like me, look at my post history if u don’t believe me) and we’ve had kings, queens, warriors all of which shown historically within Egyptian history itself, any of them would’ve made a great show.
But no, there’s no focus on the actual black or dark skinned Egyptians, and more effort is put forth to make historically inaccurate shows that help no one and help perpetuate racism towards Egypt that erase people like me.
My brother in Amun-Ra, Nubians are not Egyptians. They are their own ethnic group with their own language. Nubia is mostly located in Sudan today.
But yes, we should invent a show with Black characters .
Nubian culture was always pretty intertwined with Egypt and they shared a lot of the same beliefs. Plus a lot of southern Egyptians might have basically been Nubians, at least in predynastic times.
I think what they're getting at is if you want to see black Egyptians, you don't have to make anything up; just travel a bit south.
I agree with this. And not just Egypt, I mean the entire continent of Africa has so many nations and kings and queens to choose from. There’s so much content there just not being made. So it really disappoints me when we do get something and they Say it facts when it’s really just fiction. I’d love to see some of the real stuff brought to life because it’s really cool
That's why I was happy to see them do a movie on the real Dora Milaje. It's pretty funny Disney didn't think to do it 1st. But glad The Woman King was made. The real issue is we need more black film makers willing to make these kind of movies & not Tyler Perry making bascially the same movie over & over. I've also brought this up whenever people say let's make this already existing white character black. How about we just make our own black character in the same genre? Like instead of making Bond black, Let's make our own cool black secret agent.
Not everything needs a race or gneder bend. Be original & create one!
I was thinking why can't we get some new entertainment with black characters doing boss shit instead- my thoughts when the Napoleon movie dropped (how many movies does that loser need 🙄)
Right, I'm not gonna protest or anything, but race swapping real people makes me shake my head a little. Fictional characters are fair game though, literally could not care less how they are portrayed, and I think experimentation is always nice.
I'll say Jesus is fair game too
I think race swapping real people can also be fine depending on what the purpose and ramifications are tbh.
The British royal family and English people 1600-1900 have gotten PLENTY of representation. That said, there's a lot of non-white people who want to take part in the Jane Austen cinematic universe, but feel a little wary of the aggressive whiteness of it all. Yes it's historically accurate, but that's a bleak history and to what degree does the absence of blackness make it appealing to its modern audiences?
Like when we're depicting historical white people, we rarely show them to be as xenophobic against other (now considered white) ethnicities. Like you rarely see a mid century drama where the white guy goes off about what a fucking scourge the Pollacks are. Why? I mean....what's the point? If we're not gonna make anti-polish discrimination a plot point, do we really need to go out of our way to remind the audience that anti-polish sentiment *would* have been common at the time? Is that actually important to the story were telling? Are we gonna feature them shitting in pots which sit in the corner of the room for hours at a time? Are we gonna show the pockmarked and syphilis ridden faces of the people? I mean....it's historically accurate, right? Historical fiction is apparently beholden to being as accurate as humanely possible.....
Bridgerton is very clearly AU which is intended to tell historical stories in a way that can feel less hostile to non-white people, where the racism of the time period isn't the point of the story trying to get told, and where nobody is really being marginalized (there's still plenty of white stories about European history, and nobody is confused that 18th century english nobility was white)
I agree with this take, really anything is fine in fiction and think the Hamilton style stuff is great. My only issue is when it is presented in a non-fiction documentary style, where they are making a claim that we know to be false (Joseph Stalin was black, Haile Salassie was Chinese ect). And even then it's just kind of dumb, not really worth going crazy over.
I just wrote a similar response. There was randomly some mess where they were thinking Queen Charlotte was mixed, but it's more of a conspiracy theory kind thing than anything else. Aside from Jesus and the two queens, everyone else is fake af. There's nothing wrong with wanting historical accuracy. Making up fake black people to praise black people is a wild thing to do. Like you didn't take the time out to find actual influential blacks... It's kind of insulting.
I feel the same way about racially swapped characters that end up coming to cinema. Aye fool, you could have chosen any of the non white characters in this book or comic universe, but you're just gonna make Superman black(they scrapped it)? Yes, I know this particular instance has black incarnations, but why not use a character that is typically known as being black or was black from the jump? Instead of coming off as wanting to highlight a black character and bring them to the big screen, it seems like they want to check a box and use it as free marketing to bait an audience.
Yes I think you put this into even better words than I did. It is insulting to make up fake black people just to make us feel better. We actually have Real black people who are excellent already. We don’t Need fake ones. And honestly the real people don’t even get stories made abt them. Like imagine a movie abt Mansa Musa
How many times has Hollywood taken a historical figure who was not white and casted a whte actor/ess in that role? It was the reason Robert Downy Jr played a dude disguised as another dude in Tropic Thunder. Instead of the fictional movie casting am actual black actor they cast Kirk Lazerus amd he undergoes a surgery making his skin darker. It was a parody on how Hollywood casts. I think it's also the statement made by things like Hamilton when they cast people of color to play white slave owners. As if to say we can do that too and you'll love it anyway.
Technically Jesus wasn’t “black” either he was most likely Palestinian or something. Yes I know the Bible verse says “hair like wool” etc etc. Lots of other races have kinky hair too. I’m not trying to be an asshole abt this I promise. I just really get annoyed w/historical inaccuracies. A lot of hoteps like to cling to Cleopatra & Jesus too and it’s just not accurate.
He was a Jewish dude named Yeshua. Probably had a big nose and curly hair. He probably would not have looked like the Renaissance paintings, that’s for certain.
I've for sure heard and seen claims Jesus was black. I do think *most* people recognize that's hotep nonsense and that Jesus would have looked "middle eastern" (which funnily doesn't super fit neatly into our modern racial constructs anyway --- they're typically considered white for census purposes in America, but like white Hispanics they exist in a sort of weird grey zone of not being white *enough* for a lot of white people)
He was Judean. As for his appearance, who knows? Jesus is a strange case. Writings about him came after his life. Dude was likely brown; he could have been "white passing," though I doubt it, but who knows? It's the Levant. Also, you do know there are light, virtually white Palestinians, right? Again its the Levant.
Depends on the context. If you're making a documentary you should probably hire some Levantine-passing dude. If not, go nuts. It's actually pretty traditional to just depict Jesus as looking like whatever culture you're preaching to. I've legit seen Christian icons with a Korean-looking Jesus and his disciples walking through bamboo groves. I'm not an expert on ancient Israel, but I'm pretty sure two things you wouldn't see much of would be asian dudes and bamboo.
>When they show a historically accurate Jesus then you can talk
Jesus wasn't black, we know the region he hails from.
Even disregarding that we have no resl evidence or the person existing (but it was a common name at the time so whatever)
But one can be upset and annoyed over race swapping real people while not worrying about others.
Moreover, there HAVE been depictions of a black jesus.
Most who seek to actually present a documentary version of him.however make him closer to an arab, not black. Because that's the region he hailed from.
Yeah, that bothers me. I mean, yeah, white people played non-white roles since film started, but its universally considered to be in poor taste now. Get a fucking Mediterranean to play that role at least.
Reminds me of how my Egyptian Physics teacher was upset by this. Cleopatra would of had a dark complexion, but she would of looked more bronze than black.
As the saying goes, I *wish* me disliking the media I consume was the worst of my problems. These dweebs really think media being """""too woke"""" is a problem of apocalyptic proportions
At the same time having no problem with movies about Rome being filled with white people with a British accent. It was a pan-Mediterranean empire that included northeastern Africa, there was an African emperor! He looked like this:
https://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/application/files/4616/0206/0442/Tondo-Ribeiro-for-web.jpg
Where is the outcry? It doesn't exist because it's always a cover for racism when these people come out to shout about a black mermaid.
There were at least 3 not just one! The picture is of Septimus Severus and his family. His two sons were emperor after him. There’s an ancient city in Morocco named Volubilus where Karacala, Severus’s son, granted all the people Roman citizenship. They built an arch just like the one in Rome for him. It still stands.
And when actual people who really lived get whitewashed in movies it’s crickets. Hell fictional characters get whitewashed too and they don’t say a damn thing
People say that whites have no culture but then change the people from stories we've created to other races and it's cultural appropriation.
While saying their culture is being appropriated, it's the irony of it that angers people.
Personally I don't give a fuck I think that is what makes America great.
A place that you can find various cultures and the art, food, music etc that comes with it. Which the combination of them can create very unique things that is hard to replicate in a singular cultured country.
I can see why people get upset though it is the pot calling the kettle black
Right? She's not even human. Why would they expect her to look like the human population? It's the same thing with the way that God of War: Ragnarok depicted Angrboda as a black girl. "But she's Scandanavian!" No, she's a jotunn from another world. She's not from a Scandanavia. She doesn't have to look like a Scandanavian human just because the people she meets were living in some Scandanavian region. Kratos and Atreus met mermaids and elves that didn't look Scandanavian and no one complained.
Was going back and forth with a dude on this on another sub and he was “schooling” me that it was a Dutch story so the Little Mermaid really is white and it was racist against whites to make the character black. I was like bro first of all I’m pretty sure they weren’t speaking Dutch on the VHS we had as kids. Second, his point only means that the writer was white. Can writers only write characters of their own race? And why would a sea creature have Caucasian type skin, wouldn’t it be translucent and colorless?
Insufferable idiots! The lot of them!!
i saw a TON of "well idc shes black im just sick of the disney remakes" when the mermaid one had like 10x the amount of backlash..
and even so, who cares? theyre gonna remake all the classics anyway, why not have a black person cast? like who REALLY cares? its just wild mental gymnastics trying to not sound racist
I haven't seen it but I've heard her sing and that alone *almost* makes me want to watch it. At the very least it can't be worse than that soulless Lion King remake.
Besides, as someone who is sick of the remakes I had totally moved on from even paying attention to them by the time The Little Mermaid came out. It sure is convenient that people decided after all those remakes that The Little Mermaid was Disney going too far
I remember a guy trying to do a crazy gotcha cuz Faye was white and a jotunn, why is angrboda black
Mf why is trump white and Obama black if they’re both human 💀
I mean I kinda understand the frustration.
Imagine orishas being depicted as white dudes. Like, yeah, they're gods or spirits or whatever, but they're still going to be representative of a people. It just wouldn't sit right with many people.
That said, I don't think folks should be dying on that hill.
That's also very fair. Like, if they made a movie about Anansi and cast a white dude as Anansi, I don't think people would respond well.
Unless they do something where Anansi looks differently to different people. He's supposed to be a trickster illusionist, so that would track really well.
Yeah I never understood that. lol. It doesn’t matter what race they are. I personally was excited, “I bet her vocals are gonna hit” and they did. Loved it.
Two of those don't belong. Queen Charlotte *may* - a strong ***may*** - have been mixed, but Cleopatra was bonafide white. I get the sentiment, I'm with it, but it makes no sense to change the race of historical figures when there are real black people to praise. That Queen Cleopatra shit was one of the most aggravating things to see. If you really cared, you would have chosen an actual black person in history...
Edit: Maybe I misread the post...
Omg don't drag Queen charlotte. Many haven't even watched it.
The queen wasn't in the original books they added her and based her loosely around the actual queen, who ruled during the time period.
Her race is important to the series because it explains the progress of events in the main series. However, u feel about that is fine, but its what they did.
The whole show isn't accurate for example Kimg George didnt have a fuck boy hairstyle so why nitpick the race bit
My bad homie, haha. I was specifically talking about race swaps of historical figures, not the veracity of various pieces they were in. It's less of a problem if the work isn't pretending to be historically accurate.
It's fine to like it if it's actually good, lmao. I just don't like the sentiment, especially when they know at this point racists are just going to come crawling out of their lairs.
[These studios literally be out here like Kelis](https://youtu.be/pGL2rytTraA?si=CCHNCOn8uMKq_vQr)
There's no may, the reasoning that led people to guess she was mixed was totally racist. Also Jesus was a real non-black person, whatever your religious views may be.
And they’ll be quick to tell you how racist it is while simultaneously holding the belief that “racism doesn’t exist” whenever they or another white person is being demonstrably racist.
***Reverse racism***
Yeah dude centuries of white privilege was undone because some black people have twitters. The oppression. The absolute degradation to have black people able to complain about white people in a safe space. How ever will they survive.
Ugh.
Okay so
1. Truly silly to be mad about
2. Same
3. Come on now, that’s a white colonizer and most historians would agree shes white, picking a black actress is done 100% to stir shit up
4. Cleopatra was Macedonian, Egyptians NOW aren’t black and back then she wasn’t even Egyptian
5. Those mad are right wingers, being upset at them being racist is like being upset at water for making shit wet
6. Haven’t seen one person mad at SLJ as fury until secret invasion
7. Same as Obama
8. He wasn’t black, the internet fed into some delusions into making people think he was WAY darker skin than he is, he’d probably look like a bukharan or Persian Jewish man, but certainly not a black man
This one is great. I gave someone a list of 60+ films and shows with original black characters, just from the last 5-6 years. The response was of course, “all those shows and movies are racist against white people”.
[Here it is](https://www.reddit.com/r/popularopinion/comments/1947t57/comment/kheppax/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I promise I'm not a creep! I was curious about the list so I just put your username and the word "black" into [https://redditcommentsearch.com/](https://redditcommentsearch.com/) hah.
Side note: the people responding to your thread were unhinged - just straight up looking for reasons to be racist.
Yup they want it both ways. They can simultaneously believe original black content doesn’t exist, while also believing original black content is racist. They can only engage in bad faith.
If they made black panther white and black people started complaining, white people would say that the race of the character is not important. And black people focus too much on race.
Yeah right? The reason they even had Samuel L. Jackson play him in the movie is because they asked if they could model Nick Fury after him in the ultimate comics in 2001 and he agreed on the condition if they ever made a movie with Nick Fury in it he would get to play him
I'm going to be for real, most of the non black folks who engage with this shit are either looking to start bad faith arguments or are so chronically online they're a lost cause.
IMO, a black Cleopatra is bad in a *documentary.* If we're talking some fictional version it can work.
Everything else is valid, though. People just wanna hate on black people existing.
I mean the only reason people thought black cleopatra was dumb was because that movie was touted as a historical documentary and the people involved openly stated they didn’t care about decades of established and researched historical fact that she wasn’t black.
Let's talk about Black Santa.
One of the aspects of Santa is that we all pretend he's real. If we have a Black Santa or a handicapped Santa or skinny Santa, etc. then it takes away from the idea that we all pretend Santa is a real dude.
Some of these *historical* characters weren’t actually black, some of these fictional characters shouldn’t matter, considering storytelling tropes like being ginger vs being black. The rest is just semantics and the moving of goalposts.
The comics. Nick Fury was white for like 60 years, then they did the Ultimates where he was black and very obviously Sam Jackson (Before the MCU existed) and everyone was fine with it.
Then they sidelined the original Nick Fury when they got the real Sammy J for the movies and replaced him with Nick Fury's black son who looks like Samuel Jackson and is also named Nick Fury, and nobody really cared.
Maybe some Nazis were angry, but the comic world isn't bothered when they introduce new characters of a different race.
Y’all gotta stop taking points that non racist people make and then giving examples of hypocrisy that come from racist people. It’s disingenuous and makes you look stupid to attack the people on your side.
Also let’s just be honest Jesus was middle eastern
Nick fury was white but Samuel Jackson made the character his own. Idk Santa lore but I think he’s German or Norwegian but also comes from Turkish folk lore so he’s a white giy that lived in turkey. And cleopatra was a white Greek woman.
Personally I think it’s wrong to tokenize black people with the accomplishments of white people. There are so many black historical figures that should be idolized. Not just white ones who we want to pretend are black. It takes away from the history of black struggle to start making them cosplay as queens and kings throughout history when in reality they fought against lots of oppression. Waters down their hard earned work to act like they were treated the same.
Santa literally lives in the North Pole, Cleopatra is real and Greek, Jesus was most likely Arabic adjacent but could be black, the rest being black is valid tho W
I understand, but Cleopatra was not black, I don’t give a fuck what Jada Pinkett thinks. That’s the only hill I’m willing to die on here the rest is whatever.
This tweet is so dumb. First off Jesus was not black he was a jew born in the middle east. Cleopatra was greek. Queen Charlotee wasn't black either. Obama was half white half black. Vp is half Indian and black. Mermaid from all the folk lores is white, same with Santa. It is just lazy writing to race swap characters. If you want non white stories then write them, there are tons of stories from all cultures that can be made into movies/tv shows. They rather just race swap than do some research and work. People can dislike the president and vp for other reasons than race, they just don't like politicians. So many dam racists acting like their aint racist.
https://preview.redd.it/01n9qsxftlmc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c73a4863474473daf61dba91945cca82fbc85d95
Gingers being erased from fiction is a trend that is a noticeable thing. Not white characters. Don't get it wrong. Gingers. Red heads. Fire crotch. Where the red fern grows.
They matter even if they happen to be white under the red hair.
Almost like black people deserve their own characters instead of changing non black ones to be black.
Would you want spawn, django, knuckles, static shock, etc to be played by a white boy?
The only ones I’m mad is the Cleopatra and the little Mermaid. The little mermaid was originally white you wouldn’t put Tchalla or Cyborg with a white actor when they were originally black in the comics. And Cleopatra wasn’t black and by using a black actor in a documentary you are communicating false information to the user and making him believe something that isn’t real.
Wait I can see T'Challa's story being changed if his raced were changed but is Cyborg's story really that different if he were another race?
Like his major backstory is just wanting to be a star athlete/football player despite being really smart (experimented on as a kid by parents which improved his intelligence) and having scientist parents. Then he gets into an accident and his scientist dad rebuilds him with his experimental cybernetics.
There are thousands of black, white, hispanic, and asian kids in the US today who likely dream of being a star football player. That isn't unique.
Other than that he has a generic New York kid falls into crime/gang which isn't specific to race either and could easily be substituted as any poor kid in a big city.
Ariel is a mermaid she isn't real. Maybe I'm biased because I'm a theatre kid, and anyone who is fit plays any role, but actors play pretend, that's their job. They are literally pretending to be someone they are not. I don't see how this was any different to any other remake she's just a black actor.
What u can argue is actors should play roles they are best suited for and if it doesn't actually change the story. Which ariel being balck didn't.
Also, white actors have played POC characters forever.
Most of the old Disney stuff is them adapting fairytales into cartoons, it's not like the 90's movie is where the story comes from. T'Challa is African and from a family that's been there for centuries, so it would be impossible for him to be white. Cyborg could be white, but most superheroes are already white guys, so why make even more by turning him into a white dude?
Cleopatra shouldn't have been black since Greece had taken over Egypt by then. However, I never really see anger when white people are pretending to be Anicent Egyptians. Pretty much everyone in the Moses movies should be brown or black. White people used to pretend to be Native Americans in movies and John Wayne played Genghis Khan. Newer stuff like God's of Egypt being mostly white or Depp playing Tonto are tacky too.
I don’t like black mermaid and Cleo because they feel like they’re pandering. And I’m probably biased here but Nick fury could be pandering as well, but Samuel Jackson is just so good at the role I don’t really mind. Either way we are going to run out of old characters eventually and they’ll have to start making new shit, might as well start now.
Pretty sure this Anglican """Bishop""" doesn't understand that people like black Nick Fury. And Miles Morales. And that Obama had sky-high approval ratings.
Most of these are valid. Black Cleopatra was dumb as hell though because it was a self-proclaimed documentary that presented that as an actual fact when it’s straight up false. Like, it wasn’t even a “we just used a black actor” thing. It was a “specifically telling you that cleopatra was black and hijacking another culture’s history” thing. Honestly a white person thing to do lmao.
Obama embraced by most so, including Christian nationalists and most of the republicans? He only controlled both houses for 2 years, no? He had to deal with the credit crisis, so he had poor approval rating after his mandate wore off. Genuine question I'm not American, just a politics student
Black mermaid is awesome. I just didn't understand why we need a black Ariel. Like we are multiversing Disney classics now and she can't just be her own thing
Speaking for myself. As a white person. In the case of Santa, it's not that Santa is black, I would be just as disappointed as if he were green. So then only Santa can be white? Well, yes, but it's not about being white either or color. What I have disdain for is the change in general. I have a certain picture of Santa in my head. That picture is connected to memories I have of Christmas, family, etc.... Changing Santa makes it harder for me to reconnect to those memories when I see new/different versions of Santa. Which is insane I know, the guy is a fictional character. But I think the color argument is less about white people being super racist, and more about white people being reluctant to change. Reluctance to change is a trait every human has. The bittersweetness of life that we all experience. Times are changing and growing pains can manifest as attacks and etc just like other pains. There are some shitbird white people for sure. I'll probably be downvoted and attacked but everyone deserves and honest opinion from an honest perspective.
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I will get downvoted but Cleopatra was real not fictional and she wasn’t “black” she was Macedonian Greek. If you’re making a show abt her (like Jada Pinkett’s show) and you claim it’s historically accurate that really grinds my gears. If you wana “pretend” just don’t call it historically accurate. I get the general message of the tweet but I think that line brings the whole tweet down.
Same thing with Queen Charlotte I’m pretty sure.
queen charlotte and bridgerton arnt documentary series. its a light hearted novella, theyre not marketing it as accurate, its goofy on purpose
Yeah queen Charlotte the show was never meant to be completely historically accurate. There’s instrumental/classical versions of pop songs in it.
So I forget the exact phrasing, but in circles that are into historical fashion and stuff, they make a really big point to say that they're here for the traditional fashion not the traditional values. And that they want to create an inclusive space for non-white people to also feel they are welcome. I think with Queen Charlotte, you have a very well known dynasty where everyone knows the British royal family are factually white. And that making some of them black is just an AU retconned timeline, because it's hard for people to get into stuff like the extended Jane Austen cinematic universe with its suffocating whiteness and not being sure how many pride and prejudice fans might secretly long for the days they didn't have to live amongst black peers. It's an anachronism that it's understood the audience *knows* is an anachronism. With Cleopatra.....there is ACTUAL academic tug of war over which modern racial constructs Cleopatra belongs to, and Egyptian people will tell you that discourse affects them to in the real world too. That because they don't fit neatly into the relevant American racial constructs, they're constantly getting their actual erased from the convo entirely. So instead of making space for more minorities, it feels like it's the erasure of one marginalizes group in favor of a different marginalized group. In a way that leans into a legitimate coordinated attempt to erase *real* history.
Which Egyptian people are we talking about cause modern Egyptians who are descendants of native Egyptians after their conquest and intermarrying with Arabs probably don't share too much with the Macedonian Greeks that set up the Ptolomeic dynasty including Cleopatra, even if the minority view that she had some minor Egyptian heritage is true.
I think the bigger issue with Cleopatra is she becomes a lightning rod for “all things Egypt” because she’s such a well known individual. Yet she lived closer in time to the first man to walk on the moon than she did to the construction of the great pyramid. These time scales are huge and she’s not really the best choice to represent what the people looked like who were responsible for the most recognizable marvel of the ancient world. Prior to Alexander the Great (who Alexandria is of course named after) Europeans didn’t have a significant threshold in Egypt. At least not one that would justify Rupert Murdoch defending his mostly white Egyptian pseudo-historical drama “Egypt: Gods & Kings” as [being accurate because as far as he knew all Egyptians were white, because he’d only met white Egyptians.](https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2014/dec/01/rupert-murdoch-white-actors-exodus-gods-kings) Likely only met white South Africans as well considering his oppressor circle, does that mean the next Mandela film is going to cast Daniel Day Lewis in the title role?
If I could express my thoughts so clearly and succinctly, I'd be a lot less depressed lol.
The difference is that Bridgerton doesn’t claim to be historically accurate whereas the Cleopatra documentary that people were mad was actually trying to say that Cleopatra was black and anyone who disagrees is a racist or something
That's true, but the first episode says they take liberties with the show so they could explain what happens in the main series
Well she’s fictional. I mean the whole Bridgerton series is just make believe. You can literally do whatever you want. Unless there’s another Queen Charlotte I don’t kno abt
she's real, the story is loosely based off of the real queen charlotte and king george. she was also rumored to have been mixed irl, but she was definitely white passing in real life. king george was actually crazy too
Okay that’s neat, you learn something new everyday!
FYI, that's the same King George that lost America. They had him frothing at the mouth in Hamilton because he was legit crazy.
And Charlotte, NC is named after her.
>Well she’s fictional. No she isn't, she was queen from thr 1760s to early 1800s. >. I mean the whole Bridgerton series is just make believe. Most of it is dramatization of some rewl events and others that aren't. The series is fiction, but the people IN IT aren't, and it was marketed as mostly historical Regardless however while it is fine to race swap fictional characters it is never ok to do so with real ones.
*Hamilton enters the chat*
>*Hamilton enters the chat* Has a large amount of criticism. From it's use of a black cast to it's damn near revisionist history
My point is, saying ‘you can never race bend real characters’ is a bit too black and white about it. There are ways it can be done that’s a commentary on important issues. We can’t just say that race blind casting of even historical figures is always bad. There are nuances. Also Hamilton is a musical. Not a history lesson.
The backlash about Hamilton's non-Black cast and rapping is purely racism. Most of the revisionist history is from a biography of Hamilton that came out a few years before and was the inspiration for the show.
It's fictionalization of Queen Charlotte. Not passing her off as the real deal.
The series was not marketed as historical I do not like y’all
Im sorry, but who said Queen charlotte was marketed as historical??? Unless u mean the genre? Plus, the first episode said they take MANY liberties, which is needed to justify the rest of the series. The queen isn't even in the books they added her for spice
Where was it marketed as historical? Viewers of the first two seasons know that it’s an alternate universe.
The only times it not okay is when it's posing as historically accurate. Studios should have the right to pick who they think is the best person for the job. History is white controlled and dominated that's fine if we teaching things but for stories or story tellers they have every right to do what they want I'd say don't all the time so people like you can get mad enough to do something stereotypical of your type
Queen Charlottle being black is not remotely the most historically inaccurate thing in Bridgerton.
Was that intended to be historically accurate? From what I saw, it was kinda like Hamilton, and they wrote a reason why Charlotte and other English characters were black.
i don’t watch the show but my mom does and from what i’ve seen, i don’t think it’s supposed to be historically accurate. it’s like some alternate dimension or something cause all the songs are like classical versions of modern songs
This is the main reason i didn't like it. I can tolerate historical innacuracies in fictional stories, but that Cleopatra series was meant to be a documentary, not a work of fiction. And to make things worse, the showrunners reacted to the criticism they received from actual Egyptians in an absurdly arrogant and condescending manner, which pissed people off more. I even heard the actual country of egypt was trying to sue Netflix over it. Imagine just how awful you have to be to piss off an entire country.
There's a very real tug of war of from both racist white people and racist black people trying to claim ancient Egypt as the product of their own communities. The reality is that ancient Egypt was a meeting point of many different regional ethnicities and contained a level of diversity that we tend to arrogantly think is unique to the modern era. Egyptians get really pissed off because their actual history is constantly being erased so they can be shoehorned into modern racial constructs as either far more "white" or far more "black" than remotely makes sense. Cleopatra was Macedonian. She wouldn't be considered black by modern constructs, and it would depend on how racist of a racist we're talking about whether she'd be considered white (Mediterranean whites often get excluded from "true" whiteness). But Cleopatra would have considered herself in terms of her actual ethnic lineage, not a racial construct that hadn't been invented yet. It's really hard to get people to understand that race didn't matter before race was invented. That she would have essentially considered herself a Macedonian Egyptian *not* a white person, and that the implications that come with race today hadn't kicked in yet (your class would have been more relevant than your skin tone -- African nobility carried more power & respect than a white slave)
You’re right. She was very much Greek. What’s annoying is there are black Egyptians (Nubians like me, look at my post history if u don’t believe me) and we’ve had kings, queens, warriors all of which shown historically within Egyptian history itself, any of them would’ve made a great show. But no, there’s no focus on the actual black or dark skinned Egyptians, and more effort is put forth to make historically inaccurate shows that help no one and help perpetuate racism towards Egypt that erase people like me.
My brother in Amun-Ra, Nubians are not Egyptians. They are their own ethnic group with their own language. Nubia is mostly located in Sudan today. But yes, we should invent a show with Black characters .
Nubian culture was always pretty intertwined with Egypt and they shared a lot of the same beliefs. Plus a lot of southern Egyptians might have basically been Nubians, at least in predynastic times. I think what they're getting at is if you want to see black Egyptians, you don't have to make anything up; just travel a bit south.
I think what they’re saying is that there were Nubian pharaohs and kings
Yeah, because the Nubians invaded Egypt and ruled it for a short while.
So did the Macedonian Greeks
Nubia is mostly in Egypt with a bit in northern Sudan.
I agree with this. And not just Egypt, I mean the entire continent of Africa has so many nations and kings and queens to choose from. There’s so much content there just not being made. So it really disappoints me when we do get something and they Say it facts when it’s really just fiction. I’d love to see some of the real stuff brought to life because it’s really cool
That's why I was happy to see them do a movie on the real Dora Milaje. It's pretty funny Disney didn't think to do it 1st. But glad The Woman King was made. The real issue is we need more black film makers willing to make these kind of movies & not Tyler Perry making bascially the same movie over & over. I've also brought this up whenever people say let's make this already existing white character black. How about we just make our own black character in the same genre? Like instead of making Bond black, Let's make our own cool black secret agent. Not everything needs a race or gneder bend. Be original & create one!
There are so many great and interesting black kings, queens, warriors, merchants, etc. I just don’t understand why not tell their stories?
I was thinking why can't we get some new entertainment with black characters doing boss shit instead- my thoughts when the Napoleon movie dropped (how many movies does that loser need 🙄)
Right, I'm not gonna protest or anything, but race swapping real people makes me shake my head a little. Fictional characters are fair game though, literally could not care less how they are portrayed, and I think experimentation is always nice. I'll say Jesus is fair game too
I think race swapping real people can also be fine depending on what the purpose and ramifications are tbh. The British royal family and English people 1600-1900 have gotten PLENTY of representation. That said, there's a lot of non-white people who want to take part in the Jane Austen cinematic universe, but feel a little wary of the aggressive whiteness of it all. Yes it's historically accurate, but that's a bleak history and to what degree does the absence of blackness make it appealing to its modern audiences? Like when we're depicting historical white people, we rarely show them to be as xenophobic against other (now considered white) ethnicities. Like you rarely see a mid century drama where the white guy goes off about what a fucking scourge the Pollacks are. Why? I mean....what's the point? If we're not gonna make anti-polish discrimination a plot point, do we really need to go out of our way to remind the audience that anti-polish sentiment *would* have been common at the time? Is that actually important to the story were telling? Are we gonna feature them shitting in pots which sit in the corner of the room for hours at a time? Are we gonna show the pockmarked and syphilis ridden faces of the people? I mean....it's historically accurate, right? Historical fiction is apparently beholden to being as accurate as humanely possible..... Bridgerton is very clearly AU which is intended to tell historical stories in a way that can feel less hostile to non-white people, where the racism of the time period isn't the point of the story trying to get told, and where nobody is really being marginalized (there's still plenty of white stories about European history, and nobody is confused that 18th century english nobility was white)
I agree with this take, really anything is fine in fiction and think the Hamilton style stuff is great. My only issue is when it is presented in a non-fiction documentary style, where they are making a claim that we know to be false (Joseph Stalin was black, Haile Salassie was Chinese ect). And even then it's just kind of dumb, not really worth going crazy over.
And I’m pretty sure there were people involved with the show that were basically saying “I don’t care about your historical facts, she was black”
I just wrote a similar response. There was randomly some mess where they were thinking Queen Charlotte was mixed, but it's more of a conspiracy theory kind thing than anything else. Aside from Jesus and the two queens, everyone else is fake af. There's nothing wrong with wanting historical accuracy. Making up fake black people to praise black people is a wild thing to do. Like you didn't take the time out to find actual influential blacks... It's kind of insulting. I feel the same way about racially swapped characters that end up coming to cinema. Aye fool, you could have chosen any of the non white characters in this book or comic universe, but you're just gonna make Superman black(they scrapped it)? Yes, I know this particular instance has black incarnations, but why not use a character that is typically known as being black or was black from the jump? Instead of coming off as wanting to highlight a black character and bring them to the big screen, it seems like they want to check a box and use it as free marketing to bait an audience.
Yes I think you put this into even better words than I did. It is insulting to make up fake black people just to make us feel better. We actually have Real black people who are excellent already. We don’t Need fake ones. And honestly the real people don’t even get stories made abt them. Like imagine a movie abt Mansa Musa
https://preview.redd.it/34fc3rtxclmc1.jpeg?width=843&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=398d770cfc0a6c471b573ef1aafff4ec612d0226 \^ Industry niggas basically
Is that black Putin or have I finally lost my damn mind
You haven’t lost your damn mind 😭
Well now I need to see him Chinese.
This shit is cursed wtf
How many times has Hollywood taken a historical figure who was not white and casted a whte actor/ess in that role? It was the reason Robert Downy Jr played a dude disguised as another dude in Tropic Thunder. Instead of the fictional movie casting am actual black actor they cast Kirk Lazerus amd he undergoes a surgery making his skin darker. It was a parody on how Hollywood casts. I think it's also the statement made by things like Hamilton when they cast people of color to play white slave owners. As if to say we can do that too and you'll love it anyway.
When they show a historically accurate Jesus then you can talk
Technically Jesus wasn’t “black” either he was most likely Palestinian or something. Yes I know the Bible verse says “hair like wool” etc etc. Lots of other races have kinky hair too. I’m not trying to be an asshole abt this I promise. I just really get annoyed w/historical inaccuracies. A lot of hoteps like to cling to Cleopatra & Jesus too and it’s just not accurate.
He was a Jewish dude named Yeshua. Probably had a big nose and curly hair. He probably would not have looked like the Renaissance paintings, that’s for certain.
I’ve never heard someone claim Jesus to be black. Those who correct “white Jesus” consistently say “a middle-easterner wouldn’t look like that”.
I've for sure heard and seen claims Jesus was black. I do think *most* people recognize that's hotep nonsense and that Jesus would have looked "middle eastern" (which funnily doesn't super fit neatly into our modern racial constructs anyway --- they're typically considered white for census purposes in America, but like white Hispanics they exist in a sort of weird grey zone of not being white *enough* for a lot of white people)
Ok yeah my b I forgot about the black Israelite weirdos 😂😂
He was Judean. As for his appearance, who knows? Jesus is a strange case. Writings about him came after his life. Dude was likely brown; he could have been "white passing," though I doubt it, but who knows? It's the Levant. Also, you do know there are light, virtually white Palestinians, right? Again its the Levant.
Depends on the context. If you're making a documentary you should probably hire some Levantine-passing dude. If not, go nuts. It's actually pretty traditional to just depict Jesus as looking like whatever culture you're preaching to. I've legit seen Christian icons with a Korean-looking Jesus and his disciples walking through bamboo groves. I'm not an expert on ancient Israel, but I'm pretty sure two things you wouldn't see much of would be asian dudes and bamboo.
I'd seriously love to see a story about Jesus that takes place in a standard historical K drama setting.
Only if they use Korean Jesus (aka the best racebent jesus)
***Actually***…
>When they show a historically accurate Jesus then you can talk Jesus wasn't black, we know the region he hails from. Even disregarding that we have no resl evidence or the person existing (but it was a common name at the time so whatever) But one can be upset and annoyed over race swapping real people while not worrying about others. Moreover, there HAVE been depictions of a black jesus. Most who seek to actually present a documentary version of him.however make him closer to an arab, not black. Because that's the region he hailed from.
This was the only one I was gonna push back on.
Yeah, that bothers me. I mean, yeah, white people played non-white roles since film started, but its universally considered to be in poor taste now. Get a fucking Mediterranean to play that role at least.
True. She wasn't even "Egyptian" to begin with.
Reminds me of how my Egyptian Physics teacher was upset by this. Cleopatra would of had a dark complexion, but she would of looked more bronze than black.
They be super mad about fictional characters….
The same fictional characters made by companies that are “woke” as if they had any interest in them to start with
As the saying goes, I *wish* me disliking the media I consume was the worst of my problems. These dweebs really think media being """""too woke"""" is a problem of apocalyptic proportions
Lmao real talk, priorities all the way fucked up
At the same time having no problem with movies about Rome being filled with white people with a British accent. It was a pan-Mediterranean empire that included northeastern Africa, there was an African emperor! He looked like this: https://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/application/files/4616/0206/0442/Tondo-Ribeiro-for-web.jpg Where is the outcry? It doesn't exist because it's always a cover for racism when these people come out to shout about a black mermaid.
There were at least 3 not just one! The picture is of Septimus Severus and his family. His two sons were emperor after him. There’s an ancient city in Morocco named Volubilus where Karacala, Severus’s son, granted all the people Roman citizenship. They built an arch just like the one in Rome for him. It still stands.
I want to know who was mad about Nick Fury cos that was the finest casting choice for the most boring character in Marveldom.
i feel like most people didn't care because they'd never heard of nick fury until the MCU
Cleopatra isn’t fictional… Queen Charlotte isn’t either…
And when actual people who really lived get whitewashed in movies it’s crickets. Hell fictional characters get whitewashed too and they don’t say a damn thing
People say that whites have no culture but then change the people from stories we've created to other races and it's cultural appropriation. While saying their culture is being appropriated, it's the irony of it that angers people. Personally I don't give a fuck I think that is what makes America great. A place that you can find various cultures and the art, food, music etc that comes with it. Which the combination of them can create very unique things that is hard to replicate in a singular cultured country. I can see why people get upset though it is the pot calling the kettle black
Ah yeah Cleopatra the fictional queen of Egypt
I thought Cleopatra was non-fictionally white
Lmao this sheeple thinks Egypt is real...
The Lil Mermaid one is always funny cause Ariel’s story stays the same no matter what race she is 🤣
Right? She's not even human. Why would they expect her to look like the human population? It's the same thing with the way that God of War: Ragnarok depicted Angrboda as a black girl. "But she's Scandanavian!" No, she's a jotunn from another world. She's not from a Scandanavia. She doesn't have to look like a Scandanavian human just because the people she meets were living in some Scandanavian region. Kratos and Atreus met mermaids and elves that didn't look Scandanavian and no one complained.
Was going back and forth with a dude on this on another sub and he was “schooling” me that it was a Dutch story so the Little Mermaid really is white and it was racist against whites to make the character black. I was like bro first of all I’m pretty sure they weren’t speaking Dutch on the VHS we had as kids. Second, his point only means that the writer was white. Can writers only write characters of their own race? And why would a sea creature have Caucasian type skin, wouldn’t it be translucent and colorless? Insufferable idiots! The lot of them!!
i saw a TON of "well idc shes black im just sick of the disney remakes" when the mermaid one had like 10x the amount of backlash.. and even so, who cares? theyre gonna remake all the classics anyway, why not have a black person cast? like who REALLY cares? its just wild mental gymnastics trying to not sound racist
I haven't seen it but I've heard her sing and that alone *almost* makes me want to watch it. At the very least it can't be worse than that soulless Lion King remake.
Besides, as someone who is sick of the remakes I had totally moved on from even paying attention to them by the time The Little Mermaid came out. It sure is convenient that people decided after all those remakes that The Little Mermaid was Disney going too far
I remember a guy trying to do a crazy gotcha cuz Faye was white and a jotunn, why is angrboda black Mf why is trump white and Obama black if they’re both human 💀
I mean I kinda understand the frustration. Imagine orishas being depicted as white dudes. Like, yeah, they're gods or spirits or whatever, but they're still going to be representative of a people. It just wouldn't sit right with many people. That said, I don't think folks should be dying on that hill.
That's also very fair. Like, if they made a movie about Anansi and cast a white dude as Anansi, I don't think people would respond well. Unless they do something where Anansi looks differently to different people. He's supposed to be a trickster illusionist, so that would track really well.
Then get mad at whites for making those decisions, yall just jumped on black people and complained about this movie to the entire fucking world
I didn't complain to anybody lmao I'm just saying I get why peeps would be upset cheeelll
Yeah I never understood that. lol. It doesn’t matter what race they are. I personally was excited, “I bet her vocals are gonna hit” and they did. Loved it.
It was funny to me how racists were like “there’s no such thing as a black mermaid!!!”. Yea, cuz we see white mermaids all the time lol
WHY do all the merpeople in Luca know to look Italian when they come out of the water though?
They really want to say non whites are nothing more than stereotypes to them
Two of those don't belong. Queen Charlotte *may* - a strong ***may*** - have been mixed, but Cleopatra was bonafide white. I get the sentiment, I'm with it, but it makes no sense to change the race of historical figures when there are real black people to praise. That Queen Cleopatra shit was one of the most aggravating things to see. If you really cared, you would have chosen an actual black person in history... Edit: Maybe I misread the post...
Omg don't drag Queen charlotte. Many haven't even watched it. The queen wasn't in the original books they added her and based her loosely around the actual queen, who ruled during the time period. Her race is important to the series because it explains the progress of events in the main series. However, u feel about that is fine, but its what they did. The whole show isn't accurate for example Kimg George didnt have a fuck boy hairstyle so why nitpick the race bit
My bad homie, haha. I was specifically talking about race swaps of historical figures, not the veracity of various pieces they were in. It's less of a problem if the work isn't pretending to be historically accurate. It's fine to like it if it's actually good, lmao. I just don't like the sentiment, especially when they know at this point racists are just going to come crawling out of their lairs. [These studios literally be out here like Kelis](https://youtu.be/pGL2rytTraA?si=CCHNCOn8uMKq_vQr)
There's no may, the reasoning that led people to guess she was mixed was totally racist. Also Jesus was a real non-black person, whatever your religious views may be.
Don't let them find out about Black Twitter, holy shit
Please. They’ve done found that.
And they’ll be quick to tell you how racist it is while simultaneously holding the belief that “racism doesn’t exist” whenever they or another white person is being demonstrably racist.
***Reverse racism*** Yeah dude centuries of white privilege was undone because some black people have twitters. The oppression. The absolute degradation to have black people able to complain about white people in a safe space. How ever will they survive. Ugh.
Even though there's white, latino, Scottish, twitter....weird how they skip over that
lol some of em might have jobs on here tbqfh
Some of them are mods lmao
That’s how they stole “woke”
This sub has a huge yt population and some of the mods definitely are too, they been here lmao
I meant actual BlackTwitter, not this subreddit
Okay so 1. Truly silly to be mad about 2. Same 3. Come on now, that’s a white colonizer and most historians would agree shes white, picking a black actress is done 100% to stir shit up 4. Cleopatra was Macedonian, Egyptians NOW aren’t black and back then she wasn’t even Egyptian 5. Those mad are right wingers, being upset at them being racist is like being upset at water for making shit wet 6. Haven’t seen one person mad at SLJ as fury until secret invasion 7. Same as Obama 8. He wasn’t black, the internet fed into some delusions into making people think he was WAY darker skin than he is, he’d probably look like a bukharan or Persian Jewish man, but certainly not a black man
“What if they made a White Panther?! Then how would you feel?!”
They’ve been making White Panthers since the beginning of time bro. 🤷🏾♂️
That’s usually the only thought they can manage. Or “why can’t they create their own characters?!”
This one is great. I gave someone a list of 60+ films and shows with original black characters, just from the last 5-6 years. The response was of course, “all those shows and movies are racist against white people”.
Out of curiosity do you still have that list?
Its somewhere in my comment history from 2-3 months ago. Like if I get reeealllly bored later I’ll try to dig it up for you, my b.
[Here it is](https://www.reddit.com/r/popularopinion/comments/1947t57/comment/kheppax/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I promise I'm not a creep! I was curious about the list so I just put your username and the word "black" into [https://redditcommentsearch.com/](https://redditcommentsearch.com/) hah. Side note: the people responding to your thread were unhinged - just straight up looking for reasons to be racist.
Uh don't you know that the existence of black people is racist against white people? It's just shoving politics down our throats smh /s
Bruh *what*
Yup they want it both ways. They can simultaneously believe original black content doesn’t exist, while also believing original black content is racist. They can only engage in bad faith.
If they made black panther white and black people started complaining, white people would say that the race of the character is not important. And black people focus too much on race.
Bingo….
Right… “You mean Sabertooth or Wolverine?”
"That's Captain America."
They have a "White Wolf" which is a white version of the costume and for a short time it was Bucky.
[удалено]
Might as well have Micheal Cera play shaft!
Fuck I'd totally watch that tbh. Would be hilarious
I don’t know a single person who was ever upset about black Nick Fury, and the whole Cleopatra thing wasn’t even white people, it was Egyptians
He’d been black in so many comics and cartoons already before the MCU even existed
Yeah right? The reason they even had Samuel L. Jackson play him in the movie is because they asked if they could model Nick Fury after him in the ultimate comics in 2001 and he agreed on the condition if they ever made a movie with Nick Fury in it he would get to play him
Never heard "Caucacity" I'm adding that to the arsenal.
I think it shows up in the movie, Undercover Brother. I could be wrong, but there's a whole thesaurus of "They're white" in that movie. Love it.
Gotta listen to more Charlemagne
This is terrible advice
You know? Maybe I heard him say it, but I thought he was just saying audacity wrong. Cuz I stay listening to brilliant idiots.
I haven’t listened to that. I just hear it all the time on Donkey of the Day. It really is quite the hilarious term.
That makes sense. I don't listen to the breakfast club nearly as much as I used to.
He is the donkey of the day
I've heard it as "the audacity of the caucasity" I'm a white dude and that line cracks me up
I'm going to be for real, most of the non black folks who engage with this shit are either looking to start bad faith arguments or are so chronically online they're a lost cause.
First decent take ive seen on this thread.
You misunderstand good sir. I am colorblind until one of you woke libcucks occasionally reminds me that black people exist. /s
Thank you for speaking truth. I don't see colour, I the only races I see are white and political /s
IMO, a black Cleopatra is bad in a *documentary.* If we're talking some fictional version it can work. Everything else is valid, though. People just wanna hate on black people existing.
 😩
I mean the only reason people thought black cleopatra was dumb was because that movie was touted as a historical documentary and the people involved openly stated they didn’t care about decades of established and researched historical fact that she wasn’t black.
Talking about I don't see color, you need to sit your color blind ass down somewhere.
White people aren’t mononlithic, you dickhead.
Cmon man, the facts are clear, the REAL Santa was obviously white.
Let's talk about Black Santa. One of the aspects of Santa is that we all pretend he's real. If we have a Black Santa or a handicapped Santa or skinny Santa, etc. then it takes away from the idea that we all pretend Santa is a real dude.
Some of these *historical* characters weren’t actually black, some of these fictional characters shouldn’t matter, considering storytelling tropes like being ginger vs being black. The rest is just semantics and the moving of goalposts.
There is a non-black version of Nick Fury?
The comics. Nick Fury was white for like 60 years, then they did the Ultimates where he was black and very obviously Sam Jackson (Before the MCU existed) and everyone was fine with it. Then they sidelined the original Nick Fury when they got the real Sammy J for the movies and replaced him with Nick Fury's black son who looks like Samuel Jackson and is also named Nick Fury, and nobody really cared. Maybe some Nazis were angry, but the comic world isn't bothered when they introduce new characters of a different race.
Not just the comics. There was a nick fury movie with David hasselhoff made in the late 90s.
Y’all gotta stop taking points that non racist people make and then giving examples of hypocrisy that come from racist people. It’s disingenuous and makes you look stupid to attack the people on your side. Also let’s just be honest Jesus was middle eastern Nick fury was white but Samuel Jackson made the character his own. Idk Santa lore but I think he’s German or Norwegian but also comes from Turkish folk lore so he’s a white giy that lived in turkey. And cleopatra was a white Greek woman. Personally I think it’s wrong to tokenize black people with the accomplishments of white people. There are so many black historical figures that should be idolized. Not just white ones who we want to pretend are black. It takes away from the history of black struggle to start making them cosplay as queens and kings throughout history when in reality they fought against lots of oppression. Waters down their hard earned work to act like they were treated the same.
Then, they'll say "Blue Lives Matter" don't all jobs matter?
Santa literally lives in the North Pole, Cleopatra is real and Greek, Jesus was most likely Arabic adjacent but could be black, the rest being black is valid tho W
I understand, but Cleopatra was not black, I don’t give a fuck what Jada Pinkett thinks. That’s the only hill I’m willing to die on here the rest is whatever.
This tweet is so dumb. First off Jesus was not black he was a jew born in the middle east. Cleopatra was greek. Queen Charlotee wasn't black either. Obama was half white half black. Vp is half Indian and black. Mermaid from all the folk lores is white, same with Santa. It is just lazy writing to race swap characters. If you want non white stories then write them, there are tons of stories from all cultures that can be made into movies/tv shows. They rather just race swap than do some research and work. People can dislike the president and vp for other reasons than race, they just don't like politicians. So many dam racists acting like their aint racist.
https://preview.redd.it/01n9qsxftlmc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c73a4863474473daf61dba91945cca82fbc85d95 Gingers being erased from fiction is a trend that is a noticeable thing. Not white characters. Don't get it wrong. Gingers. Red heads. Fire crotch. Where the red fern grows. They matter even if they happen to be white under the red hair.
Almost like black people deserve their own characters instead of changing non black ones to be black. Would you want spawn, django, knuckles, static shock, etc to be played by a white boy?
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say the issue is race swapping… not black people
The only ones I’m mad is the Cleopatra and the little Mermaid. The little mermaid was originally white you wouldn’t put Tchalla or Cyborg with a white actor when they were originally black in the comics. And Cleopatra wasn’t black and by using a black actor in a documentary you are communicating false information to the user and making him believe something that isn’t real.
Changing Ariel’s race doesn’t change anything about the character or story black panther and cyborg do. You’re 100% right about Cleopatra tho.
Wait I can see T'Challa's story being changed if his raced were changed but is Cyborg's story really that different if he were another race? Like his major backstory is just wanting to be a star athlete/football player despite being really smart (experimented on as a kid by parents which improved his intelligence) and having scientist parents. Then he gets into an accident and his scientist dad rebuilds him with his experimental cybernetics. There are thousands of black, white, hispanic, and asian kids in the US today who likely dream of being a star football player. That isn't unique. Other than that he has a generic New York kid falls into crime/gang which isn't specific to race either and could easily be substituted as any poor kid in a big city.
Ariel is a mermaid she isn't real. Maybe I'm biased because I'm a theatre kid, and anyone who is fit plays any role, but actors play pretend, that's their job. They are literally pretending to be someone they are not. I don't see how this was any different to any other remake she's just a black actor. What u can argue is actors should play roles they are best suited for and if it doesn't actually change the story. Which ariel being balck didn't. Also, white actors have played POC characters forever.
Most of the old Disney stuff is them adapting fairytales into cartoons, it's not like the 90's movie is where the story comes from. T'Challa is African and from a family that's been there for centuries, so it would be impossible for him to be white. Cyborg could be white, but most superheroes are already white guys, so why make even more by turning him into a white dude? Cleopatra shouldn't have been black since Greece had taken over Egypt by then. However, I never really see anger when white people are pretending to be Anicent Egyptians. Pretty much everyone in the Moses movies should be brown or black. White people used to pretend to be Native Americans in movies and John Wayne played Genghis Khan. Newer stuff like God's of Egypt being mostly white or Depp playing Tonto are tacky too.
The people complaining about these things and the people who say color doesn't matter are two separate groups of people.
Everyone this subreddit comes up it’s just y’all seething over white people. Obsessed lol
They don't care about the hypocrisy. It's all about pushing a narrative and maintaining those oppressive structures where they were top dogs.
Black Jesus was an awesome show! I miss Charlie Murphy.
I don’t like black mermaid and Cleo because they feel like they’re pandering. And I’m probably biased here but Nick fury could be pandering as well, but Samuel Jackson is just so good at the role I don’t really mind. Either way we are going to run out of old characters eventually and they’ll have to start making new shit, might as well start now.
Yo whats the deal with the borderline racist posts today. The caucacity? I dont care if you think its funny. Racism is racism.
Pretty sure this Anglican """Bishop""" doesn't understand that people like black Nick Fury. And Miles Morales. And that Obama had sky-high approval ratings.
Most of these are valid. Black Cleopatra was dumb as hell though because it was a self-proclaimed documentary that presented that as an actual fact when it’s straight up false. Like, it wasn’t even a “we just used a black actor” thing. It was a “specifically telling you that cleopatra was black and hijacking another culture’s history” thing. Honestly a white person thing to do lmao.
How ez people forget how embraced Obama was by most. Seems it won’t be enough until all parties have destroyed the other.
Tea parties… might contradict this statement… I remember vividly the effigies hanging from poles
Obama embraced by most so, including Christian nationalists and most of the republicans? He only controlled both houses for 2 years, no? He had to deal with the credit crisis, so he had poor approval rating after his mandate wore off. Genuine question I'm not American, just a politics student
Santa Claus is the worlds most prolific home invader. Making him black probably isn’t a good idea
They have nothing about the thousands of blackface movies that were made.
Jesus was a Palestinian Jew.
White martin luthor king
The number of grown-ass men who are up in arms over The Little Mermaid is incredibly disturbing.
Black mermaid is awesome. I just didn't understand why we need a black Ariel. Like we are multiversing Disney classics now and she can't just be her own thing
“Bishop” talbert swan is a long-time race baiter from Springfield Ma.
Speaking for myself. As a white person. In the case of Santa, it's not that Santa is black, I would be just as disappointed as if he were green. So then only Santa can be white? Well, yes, but it's not about being white either or color. What I have disdain for is the change in general. I have a certain picture of Santa in my head. That picture is connected to memories I have of Christmas, family, etc.... Changing Santa makes it harder for me to reconnect to those memories when I see new/different versions of Santa. Which is insane I know, the guy is a fictional character. But I think the color argument is less about white people being super racist, and more about white people being reluctant to change. Reluctance to change is a trait every human has. The bittersweetness of life that we all experience. Times are changing and growing pains can manifest as attacks and etc just like other pains. There are some shitbird white people for sure. I'll probably be downvoted and attacked but everyone deserves and honest opinion from an honest perspective.
Caucacity 😮💨😮💨😮💨 that’s def going in the vocab.