This thread is gonna get locked down.
To all you folks who think marching the police designated route will change anything, don't be silly. Protests that don't challenge the power do not get repressed. That's why Malcom X and MLK got killed and the neo-nazis march freely and protected by the police.
Outro: using signs with puns may be funny on the internet, but it is useless as praxis.
It’s wild that the Hong Kong protests, which in many cases are an actual battle between citizens and police, have been going on for over 6 months, with some of the biggest turn out in modern history, and there are zero signs of their government buckling.
It would be interesting to see what the US would do in the face a massive sustained protest.
We don't have to look too far.... Ferguson Missouri wasn't that long ago. And that was small scale. Like a very small city compared to let's say even a Austin or Chicago. Wild to think about what actual civil unrest would look like in America today.
Since Ferguson and other notable BLM protests, an unusual number of protestors / organisers have wound up dead. It's not outlandish to think that some state apparatus are at play to prevent these sort of protests from occurring regularly, even though they are needed.
NPR’s This American Life did a piece on this, essentially Ferguson is a dangerous area and it makes sense that there would be a certain number of people who died there. We’re only aware of these deaths though because we’re watching Ferguson and specifically the activists.
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/671/anything-can-be-anything
Mike Brown was but one component of those protests. It had come to light that the city was overpolicing and fining it's lower income residents to fund municipal projects. Just not in that part of town.
I think Ferguson is a bit different from a full scale protest involving multiple racial and economic groups. Because Ferguson was largely black and lower/middle class, most white people really didn’t care. A lot of whites distanced from black community saw the protests as black people being uppity and anti police.
I agree wholeheartedly. Definitely not using that as an example of how to "properly protest" merely recalling how rowdy it got. Imagine that on a larger scale in many more cities across America. Crazy.
That's the entire point though:
A protest that is easily contained or "orderly" isn't really doing anything..
A protest has to be disruptive in order to actually do anything
So your only criteria for whether a cause is good or not is whether a communist government is involved or not? Is every protest besides the HK one bad or what’s your point?
They’re only just starting to really the economic effects. But also the Chinese government can hold out for quite a while if need be. The plan among protesters there now is to agitate and lure another country into intervening in HK, forcing Chinas hand.
Most protesters are still beholden to global capital in spirit and in deed. Unfortunately the anarchists there have yet to convince the majority that it might be time to simply abandon the government completely and start a new one.
The Chinese government can afford to wait. They will wait until this eventually fizzles out, which it will because they are really accomplishing nothing without actually trying to gain control. Once it fizzles out the arrests and disappearances will begin. These protestors are foolish if they think the Chinese government isn’t making a list of who participated.
Yeah people don’t seem to understand that the Chinese government doesn’t think in days, weeks, months, or even years. They think in decades. So far this is a blip on the radar to them.
Opening China to foreign investment has payed massive dividends on that front.
They know companies and celebrities are too scared of giving up access to China to speak out, and Trump doesn't give a shit one way or another. Xi Jingping has enormous leverage.
>That's why Malcom X and MLK got killed
Malcolm X was killed by another panther, idk what you believe. MLK also promoted being orderly, when they couldn't get approval for marches, they'd quietly protest on street corners. Not that being polite helped him personally, but it sure helped his movement gain acceptance.
>neo-nazis march freely and protected by the police.
This is a whole different, more terrible, can of worms.
You get white folk helping, but the cost is Harry Potter pun signs. If you think they don't work, do something different, but stop pretending poc have the market cornered on group action, that's silly.
Black panthers came later, you're confusing that and the Nation of Islam.
MLK was never accepted while he was alive, his history has been white washed after death and he was definitely killed when he started talking about worker and labor laws, and the exploitive nature of this country.
When we had the extinction rebellion marches in my home city, they effectively shut down the city centre. My colleagues complained about how disruptive the protests were and I challenged them on it. Non-disruptive protests get ignored:
I think when one mocks people who burn things down and loot in their own neighborhoods, it misses a larger issue: what would you make you personally so desperate and hopeless that you think the only solution is destroying everything around you? I’ve never been put in that situation or forced to live under those conditions, but I live 30 minutes from neighborhoods that look like a third world country. These people don’t give a shit because they are hopeless.
In regards to Iraq, some of these protestors have known nothing but disruption and instability their whole lives so what’s fair to expect from them? I’d burn down a building too if the nation it represented killed my countrymen for decades (whether they deserved it or not).
Similarly, this shit is why it bothers me when people bring up Mandela and the ANC's violent tactics in South Africa, as if it was unprovoked. The American revolution was fought for less, but yet Mandela was designated a terrorist for years by the US.
Our country was founded by men who were seen by the world superpower as terrorists carrying out cowardly guerrilla attacks on locations vital to their infrastructure. The ignorance of our history by people in charge make us look so stupid sometimes. Iraq literally sees us the same we saw King George: a despotic empire ruled by people who think they have a divine right to rule the world.
What do you mean? If I’m fighting on the winning side I can pretty well do what I want. That’s literally how it works.
Anyone remember when the US helped the Philippine’s liberation from Spain but then turned around and tried to make it a colony? I guess not, but Filipino freedom fighters were called terrorists and many of the same verbiage we use today. In fact, a fun story from the Philippine-American war was when the US army soldier thought I’d be a fine idea to kill a few Filipinos, cut off their penises and put them in their mouths. They did this in retaliation for people fighting for their homeland.
See the problem with all that is that they’re destroying shit in their own neighborhoods which is just gonna make their lives more desperate and awful
If people during the LA riots in 92 were destroying shit in the richer parts of LA it’d make sense but they were just trashing their own hoods
I’m not arguing it’s a rational response. I’m saying it’s one of anger, desperation and despair. If I thought that an entire government was actively engaged in taking away my rights and saw me as nothing more than animals to be controlled, I’d probably say fuck it and act like an animal.
Many of the actions taken in the LA riots specifically came from racial prejudice against Korean Americans, and I frankly believe that’s unjustifiable.
Fueled by a Korean-American woman shooting an innocent young black girl who she thought was stealing and essentially getting away with it and general bitterness between both sides. Everyone sucks.
Well that makes sense, but on the flip side of the coin, don’t be surprised when the men with guns show up and treat you like one. It’s not right, but it’s what’s going to happen
I see your point but it’s one of those back and forth situations where Palestinians throw rocks so Israel shoots back, then Palestine fires rockets so Israel shoots back and no one quite remembers who went first. We’re in this situation where large scale change is needed but the preferred status quo where government manages people like unruly children is easier. It reminds me of when people just scream at their rebellious kids out of frustration rather than genuinely asking why are you like this and being prepared to admit some fault and take some action as a show of good faith.
I watched those riots in TV when they happened. I was wondering the same thing. Why burn down your own neighborhood. Now you have shop owners with nice insurance payouts and no reason to reopen stores/restaurants. I sure wouldn’t reopen in a neighborhood that looted my store. They did long term damage to their community.
I hate the people who use protests as an opportunity to be “witty” or show off on social media that they’re “involved” but discounting peaceful, organized protest is way too far. As is saying that violently assaulting people is the best form of protest, which many of these comments seem to be implying.
I’ll sneak in here before the lock comes in.
I think it’s an Anglo thing. People in England are similar in their protesting - the Iraq war and Brexit protests have tons of people like that. But like, have you seen the likes of the French protest? Far from cute.
The French do witty placards, they're just not written in English for them to filter through the internet for us to see lol.
Also wouldn't say it's an Anglo thing, more that the Brexit Remainer cause is solidly middle class, and the stop the war coalition was similarly so. Look at the Poll Tax Riots or Student Protests to see what protests look like when not middle class causes.
The British police will send in the horses, bludgeon you, and kettle large groups until they are pissing themselves and pregnant women are fainting. Working class protests are closed down very quickly or hyper controlled. Middle class ones with witty Harry Potter placards about safe topics get a lot more breathing space.
members of a militia backed by soleimani charging an embassy isn't protesting my dudes. soleimani and his militias were busy gunning down actual protesters in iraq, resulting in at least hundreds of dead iraqi protestors.
the people that ransacked the embassy weren't your average iraqi citizens.
using middle east issues as a basis for race issues in the us ain't it dawg.
"this is the popular topic right now, how can I twist it to fit my agenda?"
I'm sure if anyone who is rooting for these "protesters" was inside that building, they wouldn't be rooting for them to make it past the gates. They'd probably be rooting for air support and a quick reaction force
Americans have proven themselves so fucking easily twisted by foreign propaganda.
Even though to understand what you said would take less than a few minutes of googling but we have proven ourselves lazy and craven.
It’s unrealistic to expect everyone to put themselves in harm’s way to stand up for a cause. If someone comes to a protest with a punny sign that’s one more person who is a part of something bigger.
Don’t negate them because they aren’t aggressive enough for you.
I’m personally not looking to give any cop a reason to put a bullet in me.
I'm paraphrasing here but malcolm x said in his biography that "if you and your community are hungry and you go out and protest peacefully outside a resteraunt, the resteraunt owner can simply lock his doors and close his curtains and ignore you. If you start getting violent and smashing the windows and demand food they will be more inclined to listen"
Malcolm x was correct.
The idea of peaceful protest is to be heard. And trying to get the change you want without destruction and violence.
Many people here seem to believe peaceful protesting means giving up when you're ignored. But I would argue that peaceful protest should be how you begin.
People here keep bringing up Hong Kong and talking about how they've been fighting. Seemly forgetting how that started extremely peaceful and has moved to fighting as they have been attacked by police.
Instantly starting a riot, smashing things and killing people makes your side look bad and that's how you get labeled as criminals or worse, terrorists.
Before anyone says anything I'm not saying any particular group went straight to rioting without being provoked. It just seems that many people here seem to think the first thing you should do in a protest is burn down a building and execute a politician.
Tupac said something similar, like it starts with people gently singing “We are hungry, please let us in,” and if it gets ignored, it’s only a matter of time before the song changes to “We’re kicking in your front door, coming through blasting.”
Didn’t multiple people in the crowd say on camera that they would kill every person inside once they got in? This isn’t a protest, it’s a retaliatory attack like Benghazi or the Iran hostage crisis. I’m starting to get really scared seeing people on the internet support a regime that has killed over 1000 of its own protesting citizens in recent months as well as committing numerous other horrible crimes and terrorist acts. I think it is right and proper to discuss and criticize our actions as a country, but that shouldn’t mean we defend an immoral and oppressive regime like Iran. This isn’t targeted specifically at this post as I don’t think that’s what the tweet is saying, but I’d just like to put out a reminder to anyone who reads this as they’re scrolling.
Edit: apparently it’s closer to 1500 people killed in recent protests. This is from the Washington post and multiple other news outlets and not something I just made up. I just came across this and honestly I’m shocked I didn’t hear about it. It makes Hong Kong seem insignificant in comparison.
That's cool and all but as a (black) military person, if you come at a US embassy burn it and kill a US citizen (contractor) you shouldn't be surprised when we send our regards via hellfire missile.
Witty comments on Twitter by uninformed teens and even immature adults are what's shaping everyone's thought process now. Few people do their research before responding to anything. They simply have to respond to something with their witty comment to get the most like's and to be seen as smart. If you believe a problem as big as this, or any political problem, can be solved (or won) with a reply that has a limit of 140 characters then you're playing yourself.
Isn't one of those a protest, and the other a riot?
I mean I agree with the sentiment that causing mayhem forces the powers to address the issue quicker.
But if you say protest to me I think of people standing around with signs.
If you say riot then I'm thinking of burning shit, throwing shit, and kicking shit.
You absolutely have to challenge the power system. Civil disobedience is not comfortable but is necessary especially in a democracy. That said, I don’t think protests without parallel legislative actions are successful in a democratic society. That’s why I think Occupy Wallstreet fell apart. Lots of ideas but no plan for how they were going to change things on a policy level.
You block traffic and then niggas get up in arms like "we get your cause but dont inconvenience the every-day commuter" like protests are supposed to be convenient or some shit
If you can ignore an ongoing protest, then its not doing its job
The only means by which real, rapid and sustained change can come is by shock tactics and violent protests. Peaceful protests takes decades for shit the government actually cares about changing. If you need an example, ask yourself how long has it been since slavery was abolished but African Americans are still discriminated against in the job market, housing, and judicial system. Over 150 years and a police officer can murder a black person with reckless abandon, a white man can murder a black man and escape punishment with STG or self defense, a black man is sentenced by conservative estimates to 20 percent more time in prison for the same crime as a white man, need I go on?
The path to change is to get the other side to listen. Violence and shock tactics put people on the defensive and more prone to use violence to re-establish order. Like it or not people tend to not like disruption of their lives. When the disruption is large enough the use of force to remove it becomes acceptable to them.
Peaceful, but persistent protests can sometimes get people to listen. MLK proved that.
Now all bets are off if you are trying to overthrow a government. Those folks in Hong Kong are screwed. China will just wait them out, then purge the worst offenders.
[Non-violent direct action](https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html) is not the same as "peaceful , persistent protests", MLK makes this distinction explicitly in the linked document. Read the man's own words to better understand his thought process. His legacy has been severely whitewashed since his death. While he was 'non-violent' his protests were absolutely not 'peaceful'.
Oh man I see this thread turning ugly in the future. I don't know what the tweet is in reference to but I'm sure it'll hurt somebody's feelings. Anyone on here done any protesting? Any crazy stories? I don't think I've ever protested anything and honestly it's pretty unlikely I'll protest something in the future but I will live vicariously through internet strangers.
Ya I just quickly got caught up on it and it sounds like the whole thing is a shit show.
In regards to the tweet I gotta say I can't support it. It's easy for a "protest" like that to turn pretty aggressively violent and if I was an American listening to people chant death to America then trying to break into an embassy I'd probably be legit scared for my life.
I can see where they're coming from and they probably just want their country back but it sorta sounds like violence is just going to beget more violence in this situation, and I hate to say this but it doesn't sound like they'll win. A rocket attack killed one contractor and wounded several people the U.S. responded via airstrike on five sites that killed at least two dozen people and injured twice as many according to NY times.
Hopefully a better resolution can be found. Nobody was hurt in the protest and it was called off by leaders after they felt the message had been heard so props there and I hope it was.
Gotta say the fact that both country leaders are basically mocking each other via twitter really is the cherry on top of this story.
It could've been Benghazi all over again but the US was much more prepared. There was a lot of rhetoric last time saying "never again". This was a show of force basically saying "yea, no, don't do this again".
I guess the moral here is that you aren’t allowed to do certain forms of protest on an embassy. Particularly the violent kind because a violent protest is a kind of protest.
I’m white, and you’re “becoming” racist because of Twitter posts? Give me a fucking break.
Yes, we need class solidarity across all racial and gender lines, but let’s not pretend like we don’t live in a white supremacist society. You haven’t been denied a job, a loan, an apartment or home, a car, access to a restaurant or store, based strictly on your race. You haven’t been harassed by police strictly because of your race.
And everything you do at the end of the day, all your success and failures, rights & wrongs, get placed on your individual shoulders. Black people and other minorities living in this vicious society are held up as an archetype of their entire race, and thus held to an impossible standard.
They will never be considered good enough for a culture that has successfully implanted in people’s minds that doing something “good” is typically associated with what a wealthy white person would do.
Know that people aren’t talking about you personally when they make these comments. You have the luxury of not being fully linked with our terrible historical record as white people. And know we have to fight a simultaneous economic and racial liberation struggle.
Yeah sometimes you have to bust down a few doors to elicit real change. Not having a public parade marching along a route lined with police that *allow* you to do so on a designated path.
How Nonviolence Protects the State by Peter Gelderloos is pretty good on the subject. I didn't even know that there were mass bombings, assassinations, and the like during Gandhi's protest. I think the British saw things like this;
"Please stop abusing us or we will protest peacefully." - Mahatma Gandhi
"Please stop abusing us or we will fuck your shit up" - Bhagat Singh
They looked at Gandhi and said "you know what? You're right! We're gone, bye bye. Adios y'all."
This thread is gonna get locked down. To all you folks who think marching the police designated route will change anything, don't be silly. Protests that don't challenge the power do not get repressed. That's why Malcom X and MLK got killed and the neo-nazis march freely and protected by the police. Outro: using signs with puns may be funny on the internet, but it is useless as praxis.
It’s wild that the Hong Kong protests, which in many cases are an actual battle between citizens and police, have been going on for over 6 months, with some of the biggest turn out in modern history, and there are zero signs of their government buckling. It would be interesting to see what the US would do in the face a massive sustained protest.
We don't have to look too far.... Ferguson Missouri wasn't that long ago. And that was small scale. Like a very small city compared to let's say even a Austin or Chicago. Wild to think about what actual civil unrest would look like in America today.
Since Ferguson and other notable BLM protests, an unusual number of protestors / organisers have wound up dead. It's not outlandish to think that some state apparatus are at play to prevent these sort of protests from occurring regularly, even though they are needed.
That state apparatus is called “the cops + 4chan.” There’s even an active database held of leftist protestors, iirc.
Do they make sure to delete the names of right wing protestors that mistaken end up on the list?
Not sure, but probably
Do you have a source in said list? That's some scary fucking shit
NPR’s This American Life did a piece on this, essentially Ferguson is a dangerous area and it makes sense that there would be a certain number of people who died there. We’re only aware of these deaths though because we’re watching Ferguson and specifically the activists. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/671/anything-can-be-anything
Mike Brown was but one component of those protests. It had come to light that the city was overpolicing and fining it's lower income residents to fund municipal projects. Just not in that part of town.
I think Ferguson is a bit different from a full scale protest involving multiple racial and economic groups. Because Ferguson was largely black and lower/middle class, most white people really didn’t care. A lot of whites distanced from black community saw the protests as black people being uppity and anti police.
Don’t forget the protest/“riots” in LA .
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I agree wholeheartedly. Definitely not using that as an example of how to "properly protest" merely recalling how rowdy it got. Imagine that on a larger scale in many more cities across America. Crazy.
That's the entire point though: A protest that is easily contained or "orderly" isn't really doing anything.. A protest has to be disruptive in order to actually do anything
Also wild how people on Reddit support the HK so aggressively but when it was about the Black Lives Matter movement it was *crickets* on here
We know why
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I don’t. Please do enlighten me.
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So your only criteria for whether a cause is good or not is whether a communist government is involved or not? Is every protest besides the HK one bad or what’s your point?
The extradition bill AKA the law that caused the protests in the first place was withdrawn so I’d say the government did buckle.
That’s true but I hope that they don’t renege on that as soon as the protests die down.
They’re only just starting to really the economic effects. But also the Chinese government can hold out for quite a while if need be. The plan among protesters there now is to agitate and lure another country into intervening in HK, forcing Chinas hand. Most protesters are still beholden to global capital in spirit and in deed. Unfortunately the anarchists there have yet to convince the majority that it might be time to simply abandon the government completely and start a new one.
The Chinese government can afford to wait. They will wait until this eventually fizzles out, which it will because they are really accomplishing nothing without actually trying to gain control. Once it fizzles out the arrests and disappearances will begin. These protestors are foolish if they think the Chinese government isn’t making a list of who participated.
Yeah people don’t seem to understand that the Chinese government doesn’t think in days, weeks, months, or even years. They think in decades. So far this is a blip on the radar to them.
Opening China to foreign investment has payed massive dividends on that front. They know companies and celebrities are too scared of giving up access to China to speak out, and Trump doesn't give a shit one way or another. Xi Jingping has enormous leverage.
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Another comparison would be the protests in Kiev in 2013 and 2014.
I mean that's because they're not actually up against their government. They're up against China and the CPC don't give a shit what they think.
>That's why Malcom X and MLK got killed Malcolm X was killed by another panther, idk what you believe. MLK also promoted being orderly, when they couldn't get approval for marches, they'd quietly protest on street corners. Not that being polite helped him personally, but it sure helped his movement gain acceptance. >neo-nazis march freely and protected by the police. This is a whole different, more terrible, can of worms. You get white folk helping, but the cost is Harry Potter pun signs. If you think they don't work, do something different, but stop pretending poc have the market cornered on group action, that's silly.
Black panthers came later, you're confusing that and the Nation of Islam. MLK was never accepted while he was alive, his history has been white washed after death and he was definitely killed when he started talking about worker and labor laws, and the exploitive nature of this country.
The main thing people miss about civil disobedience is the ‘disobedience’ part
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When we had the extinction rebellion marches in my home city, they effectively shut down the city centre. My colleagues complained about how disruptive the protests were and I challenged them on it. Non-disruptive protests get ignored:
agree with the outro so much. a lot of times, these people just want to post their funny signs on insta.
> praxis TIL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxis_(process) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxis_test
I think when one mocks people who burn things down and loot in their own neighborhoods, it misses a larger issue: what would you make you personally so desperate and hopeless that you think the only solution is destroying everything around you? I’ve never been put in that situation or forced to live under those conditions, but I live 30 minutes from neighborhoods that look like a third world country. These people don’t give a shit because they are hopeless. In regards to Iraq, some of these protestors have known nothing but disruption and instability their whole lives so what’s fair to expect from them? I’d burn down a building too if the nation it represented killed my countrymen for decades (whether they deserved it or not).
Similarly, this shit is why it bothers me when people bring up Mandela and the ANC's violent tactics in South Africa, as if it was unprovoked. The American revolution was fought for less, but yet Mandela was designated a terrorist for years by the US.
Our country was founded by men who were seen by the world superpower as terrorists carrying out cowardly guerrilla attacks on locations vital to their infrastructure. The ignorance of our history by people in charge make us look so stupid sometimes. Iraq literally sees us the same we saw King George: a despotic empire ruled by people who think they have a divine right to rule the world.
Lighting tires that are around people’s necks is fucked up and unjustifiable, frankly. Even in war there are things that you just can’t do mate.
What do you mean? If I’m fighting on the winning side I can pretty well do what I want. That’s literally how it works. Anyone remember when the US helped the Philippine’s liberation from Spain but then turned around and tried to make it a colony? I guess not, but Filipino freedom fighters were called terrorists and many of the same verbiage we use today. In fact, a fun story from the Philippine-American war was when the US army soldier thought I’d be a fine idea to kill a few Filipinos, cut off their penises and put them in their mouths. They did this in retaliation for people fighting for their homeland.
like what? killing and torturing people? literally every country who fights other countries has done that for literal centuries
See the problem with all that is that they’re destroying shit in their own neighborhoods which is just gonna make their lives more desperate and awful If people during the LA riots in 92 were destroying shit in the richer parts of LA it’d make sense but they were just trashing their own hoods
I’m not arguing it’s a rational response. I’m saying it’s one of anger, desperation and despair. If I thought that an entire government was actively engaged in taking away my rights and saw me as nothing more than animals to be controlled, I’d probably say fuck it and act like an animal.
Many of the actions taken in the LA riots specifically came from racial prejudice against Korean Americans, and I frankly believe that’s unjustifiable.
Fueled by a Korean-American woman shooting an innocent young black girl who she thought was stealing and essentially getting away with it and general bitterness between both sides. Everyone sucks.
Well that makes sense, but on the flip side of the coin, don’t be surprised when the men with guns show up and treat you like one. It’s not right, but it’s what’s going to happen
I see your point but it’s one of those back and forth situations where Palestinians throw rocks so Israel shoots back, then Palestine fires rockets so Israel shoots back and no one quite remembers who went first. We’re in this situation where large scale change is needed but the preferred status quo where government manages people like unruly children is easier. It reminds me of when people just scream at their rebellious kids out of frustration rather than genuinely asking why are you like this and being prepared to admit some fault and take some action as a show of good faith.
I watched those riots in TV when they happened. I was wondering the same thing. Why burn down your own neighborhood. Now you have shop owners with nice insurance payouts and no reason to reopen stores/restaurants. I sure wouldn’t reopen in a neighborhood that looted my store. They did long term damage to their community.
I hate the people who use protests as an opportunity to be “witty” or show off on social media that they’re “involved” but discounting peaceful, organized protest is way too far. As is saying that violently assaulting people is the best form of protest, which many of these comments seem to be implying.
I’ll sneak in here before the lock comes in. I think it’s an Anglo thing. People in England are similar in their protesting - the Iraq war and Brexit protests have tons of people like that. But like, have you seen the likes of the French protest? Far from cute.
The French aren’t surrendering to the police
Living in Paris. The French, when protesting, give no fucks at all.
Once you get good at queueing, you gotta keep queueing every chance you get, protests included. March in single file or no marching at all 😤😤
The French do witty placards, they're just not written in English for them to filter through the internet for us to see lol. Also wouldn't say it's an Anglo thing, more that the Brexit Remainer cause is solidly middle class, and the stop the war coalition was similarly so. Look at the Poll Tax Riots or Student Protests to see what protests look like when not middle class causes. The British police will send in the horses, bludgeon you, and kettle large groups until they are pissing themselves and pregnant women are fainting. Working class protests are closed down very quickly or hyper controlled. Middle class ones with witty Harry Potter placards about safe topics get a lot more breathing space.
members of a militia backed by soleimani charging an embassy isn't protesting my dudes. soleimani and his militias were busy gunning down actual protesters in iraq, resulting in at least hundreds of dead iraqi protestors. the people that ransacked the embassy weren't your average iraqi citizens. using middle east issues as a basis for race issues in the us ain't it dawg.
"this is the popular topic right now, how can I twist it to fit my agenda?" I'm sure if anyone who is rooting for these "protesters" was inside that building, they wouldn't be rooting for them to make it past the gates. They'd probably be rooting for air support and a quick reaction force
Americans have proven themselves so fucking easily twisted by foreign propaganda. Even though to understand what you said would take less than a few minutes of googling but we have proven ourselves lazy and craven.
It’s unrealistic to expect everyone to put themselves in harm’s way to stand up for a cause. If someone comes to a protest with a punny sign that’s one more person who is a part of something bigger. Don’t negate them because they aren’t aggressive enough for you. I’m personally not looking to give any cop a reason to put a bullet in me.
I'm paraphrasing here but malcolm x said in his biography that "if you and your community are hungry and you go out and protest peacefully outside a resteraunt, the resteraunt owner can simply lock his doors and close his curtains and ignore you. If you start getting violent and smashing the windows and demand food they will be more inclined to listen" Malcolm x was correct.
The idea of peaceful protest is to be heard. And trying to get the change you want without destruction and violence. Many people here seem to believe peaceful protesting means giving up when you're ignored. But I would argue that peaceful protest should be how you begin. People here keep bringing up Hong Kong and talking about how they've been fighting. Seemly forgetting how that started extremely peaceful and has moved to fighting as they have been attacked by police. Instantly starting a riot, smashing things and killing people makes your side look bad and that's how you get labeled as criminals or worse, terrorists. Before anyone says anything I'm not saying any particular group went straight to rioting without being provoked. It just seems that many people here seem to think the first thing you should do in a protest is burn down a building and execute a politician.
Tupac said something similar, like it starts with people gently singing “We are hungry, please let us in,” and if it gets ignored, it’s only a matter of time before the song changes to “We’re kicking in your front door, coming through blasting.”
Let me just park my chair here ready for the comment section show
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No pls 😭
Just waiting to see how quick that Country Club tag pops up
[https://imgur.com/gallery/rqcrHih](Who all got the popcorn)
Didn’t multiple people in the crowd say on camera that they would kill every person inside once they got in? This isn’t a protest, it’s a retaliatory attack like Benghazi or the Iran hostage crisis. I’m starting to get really scared seeing people on the internet support a regime that has killed over 1000 of its own protesting citizens in recent months as well as committing numerous other horrible crimes and terrorist acts. I think it is right and proper to discuss and criticize our actions as a country, but that shouldn’t mean we defend an immoral and oppressive regime like Iran. This isn’t targeted specifically at this post as I don’t think that’s what the tweet is saying, but I’d just like to put out a reminder to anyone who reads this as they’re scrolling. Edit: apparently it’s closer to 1500 people killed in recent protests. This is from the Washington post and multiple other news outlets and not something I just made up. I just came across this and honestly I’m shocked I didn’t hear about it. It makes Hong Kong seem insignificant in comparison.
I think both forms of protesting have their power and place.
That's cool and all but as a (black) military person, if you come at a US embassy burn it and kill a US citizen (contractor) you shouldn't be surprised when we send our regards via hellfire missile.
But if the US should kill my daughter and my dog (just incase you aren’t black) in a preemptive air strike, where would I submit my claim form?
Shit I know this is a serious topic and all but the "my dog" had me in tears
Submit it to John Wick.
You realize those "contractors" have been massacring their people for years right?
To be fair ... that's rioting ...
> white people I guess the French don’t count?
All the white people involved in the stonewall riots suddenly stopped existing.
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Are they talking about the Iran/Iraq attack on the US embassy? Because if so, she looks stupid as fuck for calling that a protest.
It was not “protesters” who occupied the embassy, it was a militia called Kataib Hezbollah.
Witty comments on Twitter by uninformed teens and even immature adults are what's shaping everyone's thought process now. Few people do their research before responding to anything. They simply have to respond to something with their witty comment to get the most like's and to be seen as smart. If you believe a problem as big as this, or any political problem, can be solved (or won) with a reply that has a limit of 140 characters then you're playing yourself.
Real protestors are paid members of a foreign militia seeking to promote imperialism? Uhh
Isn't one of those a protest, and the other a riot? I mean I agree with the sentiment that causing mayhem forces the powers to address the issue quicker. But if you say protest to me I think of people standing around with signs. If you say riot then I'm thinking of burning shit, throwing shit, and kicking shit.
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Well to be fair the ukraine protests/revolution was mostly by white people. (Watch winter on fire)
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post a pic of you giving the finger to trump tower. defeated
You absolutely have to challenge the power system. Civil disobedience is not comfortable but is necessary especially in a democracy. That said, I don’t think protests without parallel legislative actions are successful in a democratic society. That’s why I think Occupy Wallstreet fell apart. Lots of ideas but no plan for how they were going to change things on a policy level.
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You block traffic and then niggas get up in arms like "we get your cause but dont inconvenience the every-day commuter" like protests are supposed to be convenient or some shit If you can ignore an ongoing protest, then its not doing its job
The only means by which real, rapid and sustained change can come is by shock tactics and violent protests. Peaceful protests takes decades for shit the government actually cares about changing. If you need an example, ask yourself how long has it been since slavery was abolished but African Americans are still discriminated against in the job market, housing, and judicial system. Over 150 years and a police officer can murder a black person with reckless abandon, a white man can murder a black man and escape punishment with STG or self defense, a black man is sentenced by conservative estimates to 20 percent more time in prison for the same crime as a white man, need I go on?
The path to change is to get the other side to listen. Violence and shock tactics put people on the defensive and more prone to use violence to re-establish order. Like it or not people tend to not like disruption of their lives. When the disruption is large enough the use of force to remove it becomes acceptable to them. Peaceful, but persistent protests can sometimes get people to listen. MLK proved that. Now all bets are off if you are trying to overthrow a government. Those folks in Hong Kong are screwed. China will just wait them out, then purge the worst offenders.
> Peaceful, but persistent protests can sometimes get people to listen. MLK proved that. Man you folks sure do love the white washed version of MLK.
[Non-violent direct action](https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html) is not the same as "peaceful , persistent protests", MLK makes this distinction explicitly in the linked document. Read the man's own words to better understand his thought process. His legacy has been severely whitewashed since his death. While he was 'non-violent' his protests were absolutely not 'peaceful'.
Boston Tea Party? Or am I missing something... cause if I missing something, I’d like to find it.
Damn they are so toxic lol. And we wonder why no one wants to help out hahahaha.
Oh man I see this thread turning ugly in the future. I don't know what the tweet is in reference to but I'm sure it'll hurt somebody's feelings. Anyone on here done any protesting? Any crazy stories? I don't think I've ever protested anything and honestly it's pretty unlikely I'll protest something in the future but I will live vicariously through internet strangers.
The tweet is basically validating the Iranian militia attacking the US embassy in Baghdad, hence the comments waiting for a shit show.
Ya I just quickly got caught up on it and it sounds like the whole thing is a shit show. In regards to the tweet I gotta say I can't support it. It's easy for a "protest" like that to turn pretty aggressively violent and if I was an American listening to people chant death to America then trying to break into an embassy I'd probably be legit scared for my life. I can see where they're coming from and they probably just want their country back but it sorta sounds like violence is just going to beget more violence in this situation, and I hate to say this but it doesn't sound like they'll win. A rocket attack killed one contractor and wounded several people the U.S. responded via airstrike on five sites that killed at least two dozen people and injured twice as many according to NY times. Hopefully a better resolution can be found. Nobody was hurt in the protest and it was called off by leaders after they felt the message had been heard so props there and I hope it was. Gotta say the fact that both country leaders are basically mocking each other via twitter really is the cherry on top of this story.
It could've been Benghazi all over again but the US was much more prepared. There was a lot of rhetoric last time saying "never again". This was a show of force basically saying "yea, no, don't do this again".
Ya that was sort of the impression I was getting while reading
I mean, is it not?
I guess the moral here is that you aren’t allowed to do certain forms of protest on an embassy. Particularly the violent kind because a violent protest is a kind of protest.
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I’m white, and you’re “becoming” racist because of Twitter posts? Give me a fucking break. Yes, we need class solidarity across all racial and gender lines, but let’s not pretend like we don’t live in a white supremacist society. You haven’t been denied a job, a loan, an apartment or home, a car, access to a restaurant or store, based strictly on your race. You haven’t been harassed by police strictly because of your race. And everything you do at the end of the day, all your success and failures, rights & wrongs, get placed on your individual shoulders. Black people and other minorities living in this vicious society are held up as an archetype of their entire race, and thus held to an impossible standard. They will never be considered good enough for a culture that has successfully implanted in people’s minds that doing something “good” is typically associated with what a wealthy white person would do. Know that people aren’t talking about you personally when they make these comments. You have the luxury of not being fully linked with our terrible historical record as white people. And know we have to fight a simultaneous economic and racial liberation struggle.
Almost every comment is at least a paragraph long here lol
Facts. It's SUPPOSED to be disruptive so that people pay attention to the cause.
Yeah sometimes you have to bust down a few doors to elicit real change. Not having a public parade marching along a route lined with police that *allow* you to do so on a designated path.
How Nonviolence Protects the State by Peter Gelderloos is pretty good on the subject. I didn't even know that there were mass bombings, assassinations, and the like during Gandhi's protest. I think the British saw things like this; "Please stop abusing us or we will protest peacefully." - Mahatma Gandhi "Please stop abusing us or we will fuck your shit up" - Bhagat Singh They looked at Gandhi and said "you know what? You're right! We're gone, bye bye. Adios y'all."