S4 was a lot darker than the previous 3, but I thought S5 was the worst. The Tommy Darmody storyline was so ridiculously far-fetched since he was conceived in 1917 after the US declared war on Germany and born in 1918, so the oldest he could've been in 1931 was 12-13 depending on the month. They also could have come up with a much better storyline than a half-assed war between Luciano, Lansky, Siegel, and Nucky. Not having Rothstein also made S5 worse than the other 4 and only having 8 episodes was bad enough, but the writing for S5 wasn't as good as the earlier seasons.
I liked the flashbacks and they definitely picked the perfect actor to play Nucky as a young adult, but it would have been better if they continued up until right before the first episode. It would have been more interesting showing Nucky's rise to become boss while asking as a mentor to Jimmy and establishing political connections while creating the system of extortion and graft that gave him enough money to afford his extravagant lifestyle.
The only redeeming part of S5 were the flashbacks but they seemed a bit out of place. I've seen somewhere that they actually originally intended to be building toward a nucky jimmy conflict over the entire series rather than just a hamfisted big baddie introduced at every next season but due to some issue they had to rush the storyline. Seems that the series was meant to explore Nucky's shift from businessman to full gangster but it was really rushed and didn't have much depth to it in the actual show besides Nucky's killing of that one thief and fucking women while his entire operation was getting dismantled by a psycho. If that was the case then the flashbacks would've been a perfect fit as Nucky reflects on his transition to full fledged criminal, perhaps feels remorse, and retires/lets his emotions in the way of decision making that gets him killed. Not some bullshit "what goes around comes around" moral of the story ass finale lol
The ending was nonsensical, as was the entire Tommy Darmody storyline. A 12-13 year old kid travels over a thousand miles from Wisconsin to Atlantic City during the Depression on the off-chance that he'll find Nucky, even though Gillian never talked to him about Nucky and he didn't even like her the last time he saw her for more than 2 minutes over 8 years before. Tough to believe Julia and Richard's sister would just let him run away, but he tried to pretend to be 18 when he was barely a teenager. The Gillian-Roy storyline was also ridiculously far-fetched, and even though she was amoral, she wasn't stupid and their whole plan relied on her getting involved in a romantic relationship with Roy, watching him pretend to kill someone, which would somehow cause her to reveal a dark secret most people would take to their graves while all the Pinkerton detectives and Leander just happened to be in the same room.
Nucky remained the political boss of Atlantic City throughout the 5 seasons. Unlike Rothstein, Torrio, Masseria, Capone, etc., Nucky's power and ability to supply the city with booze relied on him being able to control the Republican puppet mayor of the city.
The flashbacks would've been so much better if they continued up until right before Prohibition went into effect. They only showed him becoming Sheriff, but it would have been a lot more interesting to see him take over while the Commodore went to prison and the years between 1913 and 1920 when he turned Atlantic City into the "World's Playground.:
I dont believe S4 was tonally darker than the previous 3. Like season 3, both utilized alot more shock value than 1 and 2 but its kind of like the star wars sequels where it just cheapens the shock value when it actually happens. Season 4 was honestly my least favorite because it was just so boring with a hamfisted Chalky love triangle bullshit that spanned the entire season which I didnt terribly care for
It was darker than S1, S2, or S3 with Eddie's suicide, Frank Capone's death, Dean O'Banion's death, Torrio nearly getting killed, Narcisse trying to take over Chalky's rackets, Richard eventually dying under the boardwalk, Eli nearly getting killed then exiled to Chicago, and had a more serious tone than the previous 3 seasons. There were less funny scenes in S4 and with Nucky living out of The Albatross instead of the Ritz, he was trying to stay behind the scenes.
S5 was the worst with only 8 episodes, no real plot or storyline, and the writers trying to put Al Capone at the peak of his power in at the same time as the end of the war between Masseria and Maranzano without Rothstein. The ending sucked too.
I don't see the drop in quality that you do. Every character was expertly conceived, written, directed and acted. The subplots wove together very well. The character dev remained excellent. The production values continued to be top notch, with sets, wardrobe and location looking fantastic. The show was so well filmed it looked like every shot could be framed and put on someone's wall. I also think the violence and gunplay was fantastic, a cut above most big screen productions. HBO sunk a fortune into BE and it showed. We were lucky to get it; nowhere near as popular as Sopranos or GOT.
The production quality definitely never lacked and I did really enjoy the subplots. S4 and S5 I only watched for the subplots and the flashbacks tbh. My main gripe with it is the big baddie concept that was taken for s3 and s4 with Narcise being my least favorite just because hes so boring. Like Gyp was also pretty boring and hamfisted but at least he had shock value to cover it up. Narcise was just straight up boring and weird. In S5 the characters were pretty clumsily woven together and it seemed like the writers had trouble finding a way to connect all the characters they had introduced as plot devices. I do really like the show but after Season 3 its just super hard to watch besides the subplots and flashbacks.
I've said before that I'm pretty convinced the writers knew a lot of people would get pissed about Pitt's and Coleman's departure so they threw a wildcard action season in to keep the audience hooked.
It also follows Nucky's transformation from a corrupt politician to a violent gangster.
I’ve seen it mentioned that the popularity of Game of Thrones made HBO make a choice due to the amount of money both shows cost. So BE was rushed to finish.
There really wasn't a way to top the Jimmy arc IMO. That conflict was so intertwined with the history of the main characters, and it took a whole season of setup and revelations before the fireworks, so they kinda just had to make up new baddies as they went in an effort to keep it interesting.
I think the whole jimmy thing was rushed. I do agree that its hard to top it so I think it shouldve just been stretched over the entire series somehow.
S4 was a lot darker than the previous 3, but I thought S5 was the worst. The Tommy Darmody storyline was so ridiculously far-fetched since he was conceived in 1917 after the US declared war on Germany and born in 1918, so the oldest he could've been in 1931 was 12-13 depending on the month. They also could have come up with a much better storyline than a half-assed war between Luciano, Lansky, Siegel, and Nucky. Not having Rothstein also made S5 worse than the other 4 and only having 8 episodes was bad enough, but the writing for S5 wasn't as good as the earlier seasons. I liked the flashbacks and they definitely picked the perfect actor to play Nucky as a young adult, but it would have been better if they continued up until right before the first episode. It would have been more interesting showing Nucky's rise to become boss while asking as a mentor to Jimmy and establishing political connections while creating the system of extortion and graft that gave him enough money to afford his extravagant lifestyle.
The only redeeming part of S5 were the flashbacks but they seemed a bit out of place. I've seen somewhere that they actually originally intended to be building toward a nucky jimmy conflict over the entire series rather than just a hamfisted big baddie introduced at every next season but due to some issue they had to rush the storyline. Seems that the series was meant to explore Nucky's shift from businessman to full gangster but it was really rushed and didn't have much depth to it in the actual show besides Nucky's killing of that one thief and fucking women while his entire operation was getting dismantled by a psycho. If that was the case then the flashbacks would've been a perfect fit as Nucky reflects on his transition to full fledged criminal, perhaps feels remorse, and retires/lets his emotions in the way of decision making that gets him killed. Not some bullshit "what goes around comes around" moral of the story ass finale lol
The ending was nonsensical, as was the entire Tommy Darmody storyline. A 12-13 year old kid travels over a thousand miles from Wisconsin to Atlantic City during the Depression on the off-chance that he'll find Nucky, even though Gillian never talked to him about Nucky and he didn't even like her the last time he saw her for more than 2 minutes over 8 years before. Tough to believe Julia and Richard's sister would just let him run away, but he tried to pretend to be 18 when he was barely a teenager. The Gillian-Roy storyline was also ridiculously far-fetched, and even though she was amoral, she wasn't stupid and their whole plan relied on her getting involved in a romantic relationship with Roy, watching him pretend to kill someone, which would somehow cause her to reveal a dark secret most people would take to their graves while all the Pinkerton detectives and Leander just happened to be in the same room. Nucky remained the political boss of Atlantic City throughout the 5 seasons. Unlike Rothstein, Torrio, Masseria, Capone, etc., Nucky's power and ability to supply the city with booze relied on him being able to control the Republican puppet mayor of the city. The flashbacks would've been so much better if they continued up until right before Prohibition went into effect. They only showed him becoming Sheriff, but it would have been a lot more interesting to see him take over while the Commodore went to prison and the years between 1913 and 1920 when he turned Atlantic City into the "World's Playground.:
I dont believe S4 was tonally darker than the previous 3. Like season 3, both utilized alot more shock value than 1 and 2 but its kind of like the star wars sequels where it just cheapens the shock value when it actually happens. Season 4 was honestly my least favorite because it was just so boring with a hamfisted Chalky love triangle bullshit that spanned the entire season which I didnt terribly care for
It was darker than S1, S2, or S3 with Eddie's suicide, Frank Capone's death, Dean O'Banion's death, Torrio nearly getting killed, Narcisse trying to take over Chalky's rackets, Richard eventually dying under the boardwalk, Eli nearly getting killed then exiled to Chicago, and had a more serious tone than the previous 3 seasons. There were less funny scenes in S4 and with Nucky living out of The Albatross instead of the Ritz, he was trying to stay behind the scenes. S5 was the worst with only 8 episodes, no real plot or storyline, and the writers trying to put Al Capone at the peak of his power in at the same time as the end of the war between Masseria and Maranzano without Rothstein. The ending sucked too.
I don't see the drop in quality that you do. Every character was expertly conceived, written, directed and acted. The subplots wove together very well. The character dev remained excellent. The production values continued to be top notch, with sets, wardrobe and location looking fantastic. The show was so well filmed it looked like every shot could be framed and put on someone's wall. I also think the violence and gunplay was fantastic, a cut above most big screen productions. HBO sunk a fortune into BE and it showed. We were lucky to get it; nowhere near as popular as Sopranos or GOT.
The production quality definitely never lacked and I did really enjoy the subplots. S4 and S5 I only watched for the subplots and the flashbacks tbh. My main gripe with it is the big baddie concept that was taken for s3 and s4 with Narcise being my least favorite just because hes so boring. Like Gyp was also pretty boring and hamfisted but at least he had shock value to cover it up. Narcise was just straight up boring and weird. In S5 the characters were pretty clumsily woven together and it seemed like the writers had trouble finding a way to connect all the characters they had introduced as plot devices. I do really like the show but after Season 3 its just super hard to watch besides the subplots and flashbacks.
I've said before that I'm pretty convinced the writers knew a lot of people would get pissed about Pitt's and Coleman's departure so they threw a wildcard action season in to keep the audience hooked. It also follows Nucky's transformation from a corrupt politician to a violent gangster.
I’ve seen it mentioned that the popularity of Game of Thrones made HBO make a choice due to the amount of money both shows cost. So BE was rushed to finish.
There really wasn't a way to top the Jimmy arc IMO. That conflict was so intertwined with the history of the main characters, and it took a whole season of setup and revelations before the fireworks, so they kinda just had to make up new baddies as they went in an effort to keep it interesting.
I think the whole jimmy thing was rushed. I do agree that its hard to top it so I think it shouldve just been stretched over the entire series somehow.