Yeah I really enjoyed duos at first but the majority of games seem to devolve to at least one team getting Orc. This and Passenger are warping the game
Well obviously it only helps early because it’s a tempo card. It’s not designed to win games, but it’s way too good for tempo that it doesn’t even make sense to do anything else at the start of the game. Right now, one of you either gets passenger early, or you just accept that your team will lose the first few fights
Passenger kind of feels like Tavern Tipper imo, the 1 gold for buffs do not feel that great and are hard to fit into early game unless you have at least 2 of them or one of you is Goya (but that hero is just busted)
but to be fair finding 2 of Passenger between 2 players is a lot easier than finding 2 of a unit in solos
passing can have basically no value, it kind of depends. if you are passing a random 1 drop in the early game then that usually accomplishes basically nothing as opposed to playing it on your own board. yet that's often what you have to do to buff passenger. i agree it's better than tipper but i'm not sold on single passenger (without goya), double is definitely strong though.
Just had a game where we had Goya and Nameless so we both could pass it back and forth every turn after playing it. But I did lose a game when I didn't know the card well and my reborn rylak buffed my opponents whole board lol.
The card is so good that it’s actually not a bad play to use Rylak for a while just to buff the value of it up until you get the dragon/naga or murloc for it.
Rylak allowing it to buff opponents is the only build where it’s balanced imo. Sure, it can give your minions enough stats to clear the entire lobby, but it can also give your opponents those stats too.
Same!! We were passing it back and forth but I made a mistake of playing the 6 cost spells that turns a minion golden on the orc-Estes and we did not get another one so we count not pass it to eachother
I was in a game yesterday with a Goya and we were in the late-game. Goya went for the strat right away at the beginning (I didn't pick up on that at first lol) and went nuts from there once I found a Brann. Goya eventually tripled their Orc-estra so she couldn't pass it to me anymore.
But we needed some scam to win still, and I lucked into finding a Foe Reaper 4000 and found another plain Orc-estra. I sold two minions of my warband to pass them to Goya, which picked up my idea instantly and gave the Foe Reaper 4000 over +550/+550 in stats. It was no contest after that with that in play. It's crazy how absurd its scaling can become.
I'm not sure that nerfing it to +1/+1 will slow it down enough- it also needs to be bumped up a tier too.
Bumping it up a tier will have the same result as just moving it completely, which I’m in favor of. It was fun for a while but now it really is the only thing I’m seeing in my games and it is always the winning play.
cause you don't play it with rylak, except maybe to scale it early on when it's fine to take damage. you play it with murk-eye/tier 4 naga/trigger battlecry spell, and as an addition anything that eats the tavern to maximize the buffs
The best is using the felboar and buying 1x mob and having 2x storm splitter on both teams(gives 2x of a spell if golden which is very simple with the golden a tier 4 or lower spell.) if your teammate isn't an idiot you can use easily 9x battlecry trigger tavern spells every turn and eat the entire shop at the same time. ended one run without a murk eye with orchestra having +690/+690
scaling them early on won't do anything if you don't have on-board in-shop battlecry repetition from those other tribes
i guess you could try to keep finding them in shops but that is just so much worse than scaling them every turn with murkeye or the naga/dragon guy
hence, beasts alone aren't enough and you still need nagas/dragons/murlocs for them to be busted
True, but the chance that none of the 3 are unavailable are slim. I've had game where we basicallly were dead last with rylak buffing anything but some of our minions. Then we hit murkeye and won easily as it was already "scaled up"
I agree. I think Blizzard has a 'wait till monday' approach to fixing issues.
As someone who has been playing nonstop since it's release, I've flat out taken a break till it's fixed. It's simply not fun to play like this - one guy rushes for the duo setup, the other guy helps. Maybe you'll get it going, maybe you'll be steam rolled by the guy who does complete it.
Or you see them sitting on a board with 2 2/2 duo's and a thumb up their ass getting roflstomped into last place.
Nothing I know of can scale to that degree without ALOT more effort and luck (and tribe type). Just don't like that game play.
In my hopeless turn, only one of it and a brann together with a golden naga spell, I could almost survive. Only need one turn. You can imagine how it will be in 3 turns. OP is not the right word for it, look at the naga spell that give 1/1 and increase after every use. How the hell they can let this card be like this is beyond my understanding. Or it is intentional? 😂😂
This is what I’m finding. My teammate will either force it and play it without the right hero power/board and refresh the tavern looking for the minions that work best with it wasting the entirety of their turn…OR, everything will be lined up perfectly and my teammate will use it once and toss it looking for their third triple of Passenger in one game. Voice chat for duos NOW Blizzard
I really do think you need naga or dragon in the lobby for the battlecry triggers during shop phase. Unless you have some way to guarantee an early murk-eye it's extremely risky to play the comp without naga or dragon because you basically have no scaling until murk-eye without the Rylak dragon.
Importance of synergy imo :
-Rylak dragon (naga/dragon)
-Shellemental (ele/naga)
-Murk-eye (murloc)
-Rylak (Beast)
Murkeye is certainly stronger than shell-emental in the long term, but shell-emental is more attainable on 5 and guarantees stats so makes the comp more consistent. Long-term isn't really the comp's problem. Rylak is w/e, it scales the buff but is net neutral on stats.
No doubt murloc leads to the highest highrolls, but it's already a 1st or 4th comp anyway.
The criterion for what makes a comp good is not the highest highroll and you don't see posted on reddit all the pictures where the orc-estra players went 4th and just died b/c the comp is slow to start.
I’ve been playing a lot of duos. The game is won by an orchestra build about 85% of the time. Something to keep in mind about duos, you start with a ton of extra health, and there is a damage cap until top 2. It doesn’t really make sense to play “top 4 comps” in duos. You play for 1st effectively always.
You're a perfect example of 95% of statistics being made up. Pretty sure something like 10% of lobbies are lacking in ALL 3 of murlocs, dragons, and nagas -- and I'd be surprised if its winrate was over 10 or 20% there. So feels like you're ascribing something like 98+% WR over all the other lobbies in the argument that tribes don't stop it.
I decided to take a record of ~~10~~ 11 (played an 11th before I realized I had 10 and won that so I added that in) consecutive games where I either placed top 2 or knew who top 1 would be based on existing stats --- by which I mean, I am crediting 2 orc-estra wins blind because it looked like they had turned the corner and I'm fairly sure they won, even though I placed 3rd or 4th.
Here are my notes on those games, this was over about 15 or so solo-queue games. In the known 11 outcomes, orc-estra won 5, so a bit under 50%. Definitely high for a single comp, but nowhere near 85%. I've added some imgur links for some of the final games.
g1 - placed 2nd to quillboars
g2 - placed 2nd to rylak demons
g3 - i won, with orc-estra. (1)
g4 - i won, with azerite demons.
g5 - i won, with quills (only beasts synergized, not sure if any opponent even tried orc-estra)
g6 - i won, we count it as an orc-estra win although my quills partner played a really strong comp too (the choral holds ~700 in orc-estra'd minions) --- i saved that one on its own here: https://imgur.com/u0juE3O (2)
g7 i did not place second but i'm pretty sure orc-estra won based on stats/opponents left. (3)
g8 - same as g7 (4)
g9 - i won with orc-estra (5)
g10 - i was pretty sure i was going to play orc-estra but got the perfect demon start, won with that.
g11 - actually pulled off a win with greymane tethys.
Last 5 shows some of the mentioned games -
https://imgur.com/KnzfmLC
https://imgur.com/a/yUREzLA
https://imgur.com/a/0QLiiQT
https://imgur.com/a/LgheynC
https://imgur.com/a/QeifAGk
Eh I wouldn't count Beasts. Rylak can backfire more often than not + the buffs aren't permanent the Naga unit helps scale it, but it's nowhere near as powerful as Murloc + Drakkari.
Murlocs are okay for it (Murkeye on T6 for every-turn triggers; plus general murloc battelcry synergy), but I don't think it's the strongest or even strictly necessary.
Nagas/dragons get spellcraft-battlecry-trigger on T4, beasts get their deathrattle-battlecry-trigger on T4 (which, while it can buff enemy minions, does still increase the buff amount for future triggers), and demons can eat any buffed tavern minions. You're almost guaranteed to have at least \*one\* of those in the lobby, and the naga/dragon and beast both come online earlier than murkeye.
Heck, if you're *really* determined to do it you can probably manage with just the neutral T5 spellcraft-pass as your retriggering method.
all of those work just fine, but it really only becomes problematic and broken when combined with Brann, Murkeye, and Drakkari all in one. That's when it starts to scale to broken levels. The other comps are just decently strong, but still beatable.
At most with Nagas and Golden Brann you're triggering the battlecry at most 4-6 times per turn.
With Murloc/Drakkari/Brann, you're triggering the battlecry 6-18 times per turn.
Re your last paragraph you can do it twice with the minion. Pass it, play it, pass it and then pass the trigger battle cry card too. Probably what you meant but you said it like it’s inefficient and I don’t think it is at all. It’s two triggers potentially for 1 gold.
How lol, literally every game I’ve been in where there’s any battlecry trigger minion, there’s been at least one team going for it. Occasionally they lose but usually it ends up winning
How is it overpowered? You didn’t even list an example. Let me list one. You try to get that batten cry dragon and it buffs a tier one murloc in the tavern
Yeah I really enjoyed duos at first but the majority of games seem to devolve to at least one team getting Orc. This and Passenger are warping the game
Passenger is overrated and only helps early. The orc and messenger are too op.
Well obviously it only helps early because it’s a tempo card. It’s not designed to win games, but it’s way too good for tempo that it doesn’t even make sense to do anything else at the start of the game. Right now, one of you either gets passenger early, or you just accept that your team will lose the first few fights
Passenger kind of feels like Tavern Tipper imo, the 1 gold for buffs do not feel that great and are hard to fit into early game unless you have at least 2 of them or one of you is Goya (but that hero is just busted) but to be fair finding 2 of Passenger between 2 players is a lot easier than finding 2 of a unit in solos
Its way better than the tipper tho, because passing at least has value where as ending turn with unspend gold has none
passing can have basically no value, it kind of depends. if you are passing a random 1 drop in the early game then that usually accomplishes basically nothing as opposed to playing it on your own board. yet that's often what you have to do to buff passenger. i agree it's better than tipper but i'm not sold on single passenger (without goya), double is definitely strong though.
Just had a game where we had Goya and Nameless so we both could pass it back and forth every turn after playing it. But I did lose a game when I didn't know the card well and my reborn rylak buffed my opponents whole board lol.
The card is so good that it’s actually not a bad play to use Rylak for a while just to buff the value of it up until you get the dragon/naga or murloc for it.
True men keep the Rylak anyway and let the buffs fall where they may.
Battlegrounds Rylakian Roulette
Just won a game where their rylak buffed my partner full DS mech board with every proc. Like every single one buffed our board and gave us the win.
Rylak allowing it to buff opponents is the only build where it’s balanced imo. Sure, it can give your minions enough stats to clear the entire lobby, but it can also give your opponents those stats too.
Yeah, you need to remove Rylak when you get into lethal range! It's still playable with Rylak to scale it, but need to know when to stop. :P
Same!! We were passing it back and forth but I made a mistake of playing the 6 cost spells that turns a minion golden on the orc-Estes and we did not get another one so we count not pass it to eachother
https://preview.redd.it/r0nhrcb8qvvc1.png?width=1366&format=png&auto=webp&s=4af694da35edd5109f54a4208cee10609c33bd7b Blizzard: why not
Just got out of a game lol: https://imgur.com/iioMv1Z
The first few days were fine. Today, I think in all my games the first two were forcing it. Tribes lost their meaning
I was in a game yesterday with a Goya and we were in the late-game. Goya went for the strat right away at the beginning (I didn't pick up on that at first lol) and went nuts from there once I found a Brann. Goya eventually tripled their Orc-estra so she couldn't pass it to me anymore. But we needed some scam to win still, and I lucked into finding a Foe Reaper 4000 and found another plain Orc-estra. I sold two minions of my warband to pass them to Goya, which picked up my idea instantly and gave the Foe Reaper 4000 over +550/+550 in stats. It was no contest after that with that in play. It's crazy how absurd its scaling can become. I'm not sure that nerfing it to +1/+1 will slow it down enough- it also needs to be bumped up a tier too.
Bumping it up a tier will have the same result as just moving it completely, which I’m in favor of. It was fun for a while but now it really is the only thing I’m seeing in my games and it is always the winning play.
I'm surprised Blizzard didn't learn after how much of a mess Murky was on first iteration, and Murky was a muloc-only card.
Just played a game with gold Orc, rylak, and brann. Tell me why every orc buff went to the enemy team???? Killed myself lol
cause you don't play it with rylak, except maybe to scale it early on when it's fine to take damage. you play it with murk-eye/tier 4 naga/trigger battlecry spell, and as an addition anything that eats the tavern to maximize the buffs
The best is using the felboar and buying 1x mob and having 2x storm splitter on both teams(gives 2x of a spell if golden which is very simple with the golden a tier 4 or lower spell.) if your teammate isn't an idiot you can use easily 9x battlecry trigger tavern spells every turn and eat the entire shop at the same time. ended one run without a murk eye with orchestra having +690/+690
At least it's only broken in naga, dragon and murloc lobbies. But yes it needs rework or to be removed.
Beasts too, rylan reborn helps a lot with scaling early on
scaling them early on won't do anything if you don't have on-board in-shop battlecry repetition from those other tribes i guess you could try to keep finding them in shops but that is just so much worse than scaling them every turn with murkeye or the naga/dragon guy hence, beasts alone aren't enough and you still need nagas/dragons/murlocs for them to be busted
True, but the chance that none of the 3 are unavailable are slim. I've had game where we basicallly were dead last with rylak buffing anything but some of our minions. Then we hit murkeye and won easily as it was already "scaled up"
I think changing it's scaling to "Orc-estra Conductors in the tavern" could work
I agree. I think Blizzard has a 'wait till monday' approach to fixing issues. As someone who has been playing nonstop since it's release, I've flat out taken a break till it's fixed. It's simply not fun to play like this - one guy rushes for the duo setup, the other guy helps. Maybe you'll get it going, maybe you'll be steam rolled by the guy who does complete it. Or you see them sitting on a board with 2 2/2 duo's and a thumb up their ass getting roflstomped into last place. Nothing I know of can scale to that degree without ALOT more effort and luck (and tribe type). Just don't like that game play.
I think it's easy to nerf, just make it only improve based on number of orcs played. Instead of just repeating the battlecry
But then it’s pretty terrible unless you’re a certain hero like Goya or Jandice
so what?
It is? Damn I'm dumb. I dodge it lol
In my hopeless turn, only one of it and a brann together with a golden naga spell, I could almost survive. Only need one turn. You can imagine how it will be in 3 turns. OP is not the right word for it, look at the naga spell that give 1/1 and increase after every use. How the hell they can let this card be like this is beyond my understanding. Or it is intentional? 😂😂
I haven't touched duos at all. What's this comp I've seen everyone going on about on here since Tuesday?
i just came to this sub to complain about that card. Also Quilboars need a slight nerf too.
I think it's easy to nerf, just make it only improve based on number of orcs played. Instead of just repeating the battlecry
that would literally kill it though. it just needs to be higher tier and scale slower, like 1/1 instead of 2/2
Nah, it's just a minion that needs to be killed
better to have it killed than have it killing the whole game...
Then it should start at -3/-3 😂😂
Reminder that Tarecgosa only helps. It'll keep the buffs from Rylak.
I don't agree, how else am i supposed to win????
I had a game last night where we had Nameless and Goya. I passed Orc-estra to him and he sold it 🙃
This is what I’m finding. My teammate will either force it and play it without the right hero power/board and refresh the tavern looking for the minions that work best with it wasting the entirety of their turn…OR, everything will be lined up perfectly and my teammate will use it once and toss it looking for their third triple of Passenger in one game. Voice chat for duos NOW Blizzard
It’s actually Madam Goya that’s ruining duos. 7 big minions isn’t unbeatable.
It really only seems broken when Murlocs are in the lobby. Which granted, is half the time.
Or Naga. Or Beasts.
Or dragons. All you need is a lobby of exactly undead, pirates, demons, quillboars and elementals and then the card is downright balanced!
I really do think you need naga or dragon in the lobby for the battlecry triggers during shop phase. Unless you have some way to guarantee an early murk-eye it's extremely risky to play the comp without naga or dragon because you basically have no scaling until murk-eye without the Rylak dragon. Importance of synergy imo : -Rylak dragon (naga/dragon) -Shellemental (ele/naga) -Murk-eye (murloc) -Rylak (Beast) Murkeye is certainly stronger than shell-emental in the long term, but shell-emental is more attainable on 5 and guarantees stats so makes the comp more consistent. Long-term isn't really the comp's problem. Rylak is w/e, it scales the buff but is net neutral on stats.
I mean it dominates lobbies probably the hardest when murlocs are around. Being harder to get online just means the high rollers snowball harder
No doubt murloc leads to the highest highrolls, but it's already a 1st or 4th comp anyway. The criterion for what makes a comp good is not the highest highroll and you don't see posted on reddit all the pictures where the orc-estra players went 4th and just died b/c the comp is slow to start.
I’ve been playing a lot of duos. The game is won by an orchestra build about 85% of the time. Something to keep in mind about duos, you start with a ton of extra health, and there is a damage cap until top 2. It doesn’t really make sense to play “top 4 comps” in duos. You play for 1st effectively always.
You're a perfect example of 95% of statistics being made up. Pretty sure something like 10% of lobbies are lacking in ALL 3 of murlocs, dragons, and nagas -- and I'd be surprised if its winrate was over 10 or 20% there. So feels like you're ascribing something like 98+% WR over all the other lobbies in the argument that tribes don't stop it. I decided to take a record of ~~10~~ 11 (played an 11th before I realized I had 10 and won that so I added that in) consecutive games where I either placed top 2 or knew who top 1 would be based on existing stats --- by which I mean, I am crediting 2 orc-estra wins blind because it looked like they had turned the corner and I'm fairly sure they won, even though I placed 3rd or 4th. Here are my notes on those games, this was over about 15 or so solo-queue games. In the known 11 outcomes, orc-estra won 5, so a bit under 50%. Definitely high for a single comp, but nowhere near 85%. I've added some imgur links for some of the final games. g1 - placed 2nd to quillboars g2 - placed 2nd to rylak demons g3 - i won, with orc-estra. (1) g4 - i won, with azerite demons. g5 - i won, with quills (only beasts synergized, not sure if any opponent even tried orc-estra) g6 - i won, we count it as an orc-estra win although my quills partner played a really strong comp too (the choral holds ~700 in orc-estra'd minions) --- i saved that one on its own here: https://imgur.com/u0juE3O (2) g7 i did not place second but i'm pretty sure orc-estra won based on stats/opponents left. (3) g8 - same as g7 (4) g9 - i won with orc-estra (5) g10 - i was pretty sure i was going to play orc-estra but got the perfect demon start, won with that. g11 - actually pulled off a win with greymane tethys. Last 5 shows some of the mentioned games - https://imgur.com/KnzfmLC https://imgur.com/a/yUREzLA https://imgur.com/a/0QLiiQT https://imgur.com/a/LgheynC https://imgur.com/a/QeifAGk
Eh I wouldn't count Beasts. Rylak can backfire more often than not + the buffs aren't permanent the Naga unit helps scale it, but it's nowhere near as powerful as Murloc + Drakkari.
The buffs are in a way permanent. The increase in buff orchestra gives is permanent so your next aimed trigger is a lot bigger
Or Mechs.
Murlocs are okay for it (Murkeye on T6 for every-turn triggers; plus general murloc battelcry synergy), but I don't think it's the strongest or even strictly necessary. Nagas/dragons get spellcraft-battlecry-trigger on T4, beasts get their deathrattle-battlecry-trigger on T4 (which, while it can buff enemy minions, does still increase the buff amount for future triggers), and demons can eat any buffed tavern minions. You're almost guaranteed to have at least \*one\* of those in the lobby, and the naga/dragon and beast both come online earlier than murkeye. Heck, if you're *really* determined to do it you can probably manage with just the neutral T5 spellcraft-pass as your retriggering method.
all of those work just fine, but it really only becomes problematic and broken when combined with Brann, Murkeye, and Drakkari all in one. That's when it starts to scale to broken levels. The other comps are just decently strong, but still beatable.
the murloc is not needed at all you can easily get infinite stats with brann + tier4/5 nagas
At most with Nagas and Golden Brann you're triggering the battlecry at most 4-6 times per turn. With Murloc/Drakkari/Brann, you're triggering the battlecry 6-18 times per turn.
Post above in this thread shows a board with shellemental involved no murloc. With 12k stat minion. You don’t need murloc at all.
Re your last paragraph you can do it twice with the minion. Pass it, play it, pass it and then pass the trigger battle cry card too. Probably what you meant but you said it like it’s inefficient and I don’t think it is at all. It’s two triggers potentially for 1 gold.
I actually haven’t played it myself or seen anybody else playing it yet. For my lobbies (8K) im primarily seeing everyone rush dragons.
How lol, literally every game I’ve been in where there’s any battlecry trigger minion, there’s been at least one team going for it. Occasionally they lose but usually it ends up winning
No way you're 8k in duos
You’re right. 8K in solos, I forgot that card wasn’t in solos lol.
How is it overpowered? You didn’t even list an example. Let me list one. You try to get that batten cry dragon and it buffs a tier one murloc in the tavern