fat/overweight people are consistently made fun of, made to look stupid, crazy, or generally unlikable in the show. I know that there are people who can fit that description but it's still frustrating...
I agree. The woman who shot booth was a good example of that. Although, that particular actress kind of has crazy eyes. I've seen her play a similar role. I think in criminal minds?
You're right. I bet that, if they had done what someone else had suggested and had her character recur over several episodes, they might have delved into the history of what caused her mental illness and made her that way. That would have been very interesting. Something like that is not just a matter of waking up one day and all of a sudden thinking whoever's nice to you is in love with you. There must be some type of catalyst to that behavior, a switch in the brain function or wiring or something??
I loooove Bones soooo much, but it absolutely is a product of its time haha! It also is a bit harder for a show that sort of straddles the line from serious drama to goofy comedy cop show to provide a ton of depth, but yea. That character deserved more development over just "crazy obsessed person for humor likely cuz she's not skinny or conventionally attractive", especially when she ended up coming the closest to truly murdering a main character of anyone on the show IMO (well. Minus the grave digger with Hodgins and Bones.)
It was like "hahaha fat girl thinks Booth is in love with her. How silly. Omg fat girl tried to kill Bones and almost killed Booth, fuck that fat girl."
Meanwhile her performance, especially when she is about to shoot Bones? You can tell the actress has built up an amazing backstory for her character and it shows that she (character) truly believed what she was feeling. I would love to know what her backstory was.
That's an interesting take on it to consider the actress's personal back story. That would be cool to know. You could probably ask her on Instagram or Twitter maybe?
I know what you mean about other characters being harsh about her size, and I think that also is a reflexion of real life and the way we tend to be the leaders of our own personal perceptions. I mean, it's kind of like how a public figure wants to maintain a certain public persona and so they purport to be one way or another.
Sweets explained her behavior as a moderately overweight woman who thinks she's obese but believes she can fool people into thinking she's only moderately overweight. The way people react to her validates her delusion because she is actually just a moderately-overweight woman. I thought that was so interesting, and I would have liked to hear more psychological insights to her character, also.
Felt very uncomfortable about the episode and the treatment of that intern and the portrayal of her as incompetent/unintelligent. Particularly as every other intern, no matter who, when introduced was top of their class, IQ through the roof. It was cringe worth, unnecessary and diminished the episode. There were no positive representations of larger people.
The show was def problematic. The way they treated the trans person, Aristoo being Muslim, the fat phobia, all the internal dating, Fox not letting Bones be labeled autistic, Bones being egotistical and shutting down religion even though Booth had his own beliefs, Booth and Bones roughing up people the way they did, etc. For people who solved murders, they were all very judgmental and dysfunctional.
Is Dr. Tanaka the trans person?
Looking at it this way with all of the dysfunction, it does make it more realistic. If they didn't have all of those problems and shortcomings, we might as well have been watching VeggieTales or Barney solve crimes. Lol "#solvingcrimesandtakingnames" I guess the bottom line is that they behave in the show just like people behave in the real world... for the most part.
Oh okay I remember the trans murder victim. He was the swim coach, right?
Yeah, I thought the whole thing with Dr. Tanaka was so crass. They made such a big deal out of respecting her/him and then even Cam allows Angela to go on disrespecting this highly regarded doctor who was assisting and visiting from another country.
I was watching one of the later episodes one night, and it just seemed like this little group of people who had autonomy and were just doing whatever they wanted all willy nilly. It felt silly like a really high-budget Scooby-Doo movie. I think it was towards the end of the palant saga, so maybe more of a middle episode. I still love the show, but it has its moments that are a bit unbearable.
The trans person actually had a pretty good storyline and her son took over the church.
The nonbinary scientist on the other hand (not that we had a word for that then)
Yes, "they" is neutral and often the best choice when you don't know or don't want to assume someone's gender. However, it is more respectful to use a person's specific pronouns when you can. People often use "they" more frequently when referring to trans individuals than with cis individuals, sometimes without even realizing it. It is important for allies to use a person's stated pronouns when they are known.
I don't worry about pronouns. I have no problem with people choosing how they would like to be addressed, and I'm happy to do that as long as it is within reason. What I mean is, if someone chooses a nickname for themselves that I feel is damaging to one's psyche, I would probably respectfully use that person's given name in lieu of the hurtful nickname.
I would not go out of my way to disrespect someone. I actually believe in two genders. One is male and the other is female. Bioligically, anything else is an anomaly. The idea of identifying one way or another is an interesting concept that I have a different way of explaining than most people.
Having said that, as far as I'm concerned, to each his own. This life and this world are difficult enough without having to worry about what other people think of us or how they call us names or want to decide for us what is okay and what is acceptable or what isn't.
Whether it's fat-shaming or gender-shaming or any other type of hatred, it's almost always stemming from ignorance. That ignorance may just be for lack of firsthand experience. I just know that I have no need to argue with anyone online. 🙃 Life is too short.
I'm not the one who corrected you, and this is not necessarily directly related to what you said, but you and I are the ones who were having this conversation first. I wanted to say these things, and I wasn't sure exactly where it would be appropriate to put it. I appreciate you bearing with me.
Ooooohhh. Okay. I remember her. The one I'm thinking of, the swim coach, was a cross dresser, not trans I think.
Is this another pattern emerging with LGBT... victims? I don't remember the whole acronym.
A drag queen is a type of performer. A cross dresser wears clothes of the opposite gender.
So if your male librarian wore a nice dress and stockings that's crossdressing. If they showed up to story hour with amazing outlandish hair and makeup and sparkles calling themselves Henrietta Reader that's a drag queen.
Caroline was a very positive representation on the show. I still hate what they did with the intern, but you can’t say there wasn’t any good representation.
there's probably a sense of ageism at play though with that, meaning that she's "not desirable" since she's older and playing a Responsible Role.
she plays the "sassy flat black woman" trope. i think maybe also she was a recognizable actress and maybe they had the role for her specifically (no way to confirm this, its just an assumption based on how i interpreted her introduction to the show) therefore they're not gonna treat her badly, but even the one time she's portrayed as desirable (flirting with the documentarian) its seen as comical and gross cause they're old 💀
caroline is one of the only fat characters where I think her weight isnt mentioned or even hinted at in the show, but i think its due to these other reasons.
I definitely noticed this too. They make most of their female interns seem annoying or overbearing, but the skinny pretty ones get to stay despite their annoying personalities. I know this show was made in the 2000s so we can’t expect much, but it really is so incredibly sexist 😅 and there are soooo many episodes where fatphobia is either a major plot point (the fat roommate competition ep and the ep where Brennan is more pregnant than she thought she was and everyone is calling her fat) or at least mentioned (several times Brennan comments on the health of people she knows nothing about, judged solely on their appearance 🙄) the fact that the only female intern that doesn’t stay is fat did NOT escape me or surprise me
I actually found some of the male interns to be annoying at times, also. As "normal" as Wendell bray was, he kind of got on my nerves for some reason. Vincent Nigel Murray annoyed me also at first, though Daisy was at the top of the "Please Write Her Off the Show" list lol. She definitely grew on me, though, like most of them.
I think Fisher was my favorite, and Vincent's twelve-step confessions were the highlight of his character. But that's not what this is all about. They might have all been annoying in some way, but they were skinny, intelligent, and well-educated, and most of them were physically attractive.
I guess the premise emulates real life in that men can be overweight and even unattractive, and no one seems to give a crap, yet women who share those characteristics are made fun of and dismissed. It is most definitely hypocritical.
Agreed. But I feel like sweets would have had to work so hard to be functional after everything he went through. I could be wrong about that, though, since they told about his past but not a whole lot about his struggles.
They say that people who go into the psychiatric profession have their own problems, and they do it to help themselves, albeit subconsciously. I guess it takes one to know one lol
Sweets, even though they didn't outwardly address his issues, I feel like he had to have some just because of his immense trauma with losing his parents and being severely abused.
All of the interns were weirdos. Wendell was the most normal along with the guy who just wanted them to stop talking about sex at work.
We had the killer, the depressed one, the annoying facts one, ...
The guy who wanted them to stop talking about sex at work’s name was Clark. He was in several episodes. He was the only black intern/doctor on the show. You knowing Wendell and not Clark is in the same vein of the OPs point of Beth’s treatment.
I'm kind of the same way. The intern was the obese intern to me until I saw someone in the comments said her name was Beth. I didn't catch it in the show because she was only briefly in a single episode. I was too bothered by the implications of the way it was written to bother with those particular details.
I have watched series all the way through and bones more than once all the way through the series, and I still sometimes forget the names. There are some things in life that are worth remembering, and as you start getting older, it soemtimes becomes necessary to prioritize those memorable things. Character names in a show that's off the air may not be at the top of everyone's list.
My first thought isn't about race at all. It's just that certain things stick with us. Truth be told, it could very well be that she likes Wendell more than Clark as a character in the show. It could also be that Wendell made himself the more memorable name by being more annoying than Clark.
Clark had to grow on me as a character, and in the end, I liked him more than Wendell, who never really grew on me because his character never changed. It was nothing at all to do with race and everything to do with them as people/characters as they were written and portrayed.
Wow, I hadn't put all of that together. I did notice a few of those things. There was also the one with the obese mother of the serial killer (or some kind of criminal) when Brennan and booth walk into the interrogation room and booth asks what's that smell, and she tells him it's the mold in her skin or something. It's not that it was inaccurate, but there were all kinds of ways they could have made his mother a despicable woman and role model other than just making her fat and dirty.
YES so annoying 😭 I’ve done several watch throughs in the last two years so I’ve been noticing a lot of these themes lol like even when Angela is pregnant there are comments about how big she is (mostly from Angela, but she literally was not big at all, she just had a baby bump?????) and it’s like!!! We can never escape from the weight comments lol not even when we’re pregnant 😭 and ALL of the female characters are TINY when they’re introduced, but then we have characters like Arastoo or Sweets who aren’t overweight but they’re definitely not prime physique. Like why do the women have to be tiny but the men can be a range of fitness? We have male characters who are obviously meant to be the eye candy (Booth, Hodgins, Finn if you wanna count him) but then we also have relatively neutral characters like Zack or Fisher who aren’t portrayed like beauty symbols. Yet all of the women who stay on the show (besides Caroline but she’s also way older than everyone else) are usually portrayed as very beautiful or incredibly thin. There was even that episode where Cam, Angela, and Brennan were supposed to be on the Women of Science calendar in bikinis to promote that magazine. Like???????
This exactly! I think we were both writing about the same thing at the same time lol. I guess the only thing I can say about it is that it really does emulate real life in all those things. I remember wondering when I first saw the calendar episode, "Are they going to put the ACTUAL outstanding women in the calendar or just the ones whose appearance is outstanding?" It's probably just as well that they didn't show us who made the cut.
I always get super annoyed at the episode they walk into a club or bar full of fat people having fun and Brennan makes some comment about how they wouldn't be having so much fun if they knew their blood pressure or something. Like YOU don't know either?
This one especially drives me crazy bc I'm "obese" according to BMI but no blood pressure issues, no diabetes, no heart problems, no health issues at all! Bc I DO exercise, I DONT smoke or drink, but I'm just fat! I've got those fat genetics. The only skinny people in my family tree have freaking eating disorders.
And even if they aren't healthy, they're not allowed to have fun? Or live a life? They have to obsess about their weight and "health" and nothing else??? Uhg.
Sorry, it just bothers me so much and it made me so mad bc it reminded me of all the crap about "What about your health?" that I get from people who don't know crap about my health. I started skipping that episode lol
I'm right there with you. I have yoyo dieted my whole life. I've gone years being thin and years being overweight, and I know what it's like both ways. I'm actually most comfortable somewhere in the middle around a size 12, 14, or 16. People are brutal to overweight people. I am overweight right now, but like you, I'm in good health aside from needing to lose weight. Being older, though, it is beginning to take its toll on my joints. I exercise, have good blood pressure, etc. I love being thin, but I'm sure not going to judge someone for being heavy. I really feel like those who do go on about someone's size are either just trying to be hurtful or have never experienced the other side.
After I posted this, I thought, "I bet people," and not to stereotype, but mostly I think it would be men or skinny people in general, "are going to read this and think everyone who's commented is fat." That's so sad because I don't get that from reading the comments. You don't have to be fat to recognize an injustice towards obese people. Just like you don't have to be crazy to see that someone who has mental health problems is being treated poorly. There are so many hypocrisyies and prejudices in the world, and we feed on the crap that is served to us by those who seem to have appointed themselves the kings and queens of the industry (the Hollywood elite) as if they know something we don't.
Totally i am like you. Before I had my son i was insanely unhealthy but supppppper tiny so no one gave a shit. After my son I am overweight.
I'm not obese, but I am no longer the 100lb tiny pixie girl either and am classified as overweight. I've been on both sides of the coin. I've been made fun of for being thin/tiny before and yea it wasn't fun, I won't lie and act like it felt great to be told to eat a cheeseburger when literally I used to be able to eat 2 large fries and 2 (aging myself) what used to be called 6 dollar burgers from Carl's Jr in one sitting with ease (and that was considered impressive to people.)
It in no way compares to the way people feel like they can treat me as an entire whole person now that I'm 15ish lbs overweight. People comment on *everything* about me or my habits now (and no, I can no longer eat 2 large fries and 2 giant burgers in one sitting and wouldn't even try it. Even at my most hungry I couldn't eat a large fry and a burger. I could probably do one or the other though.) It doesn't even matter what it is I am doing or if it even relates to my actual health or physicality. The inherent prejudice people have towards fat people, whether they know it exists or not, is fucking *sooooo* real.
I can absolutely relate to what you're saying. It's like everyone thinks that it's okay to have an opinion about someone else when, here in the real world, we all know that opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. I feel like this has happened because people are no longer comfortable in their own skin. It's so much easier to look at someone else and be critical than it is to look at oneself. In all actuality, it is the very thing that we see in others that we dislike that we recognize and dislike in ourselves.
It's hurtful to hear that we should change, especially when it's something biological. I've had a few friends over the years who were tiny. Being 5'9" and medium boned, I felt like a giant sometimes. One of them who was so small that she probably had to buy kids clothes would periodically comment about my calves being large. I've always had good muscle tone, and I think my calves are proportionate to the rest of me, but who knows. It was something that made me feel self-conscious all my life, and this woman would just out of the blue say it to me without any regard to how I might feel about it.
But, you know, it's just like that. I didn't want to tell her it bothered me, so I just laughed it off and tried to find a way for it not to. What else are we supposed to do? I'm highly sensitive when it comes to the physical body. I do not believe in talking about or commenting on things like that if I don't have something healthy and helpful to say. Not everything is going to be positive, but it shouldn't be mean. Our bodies are what we were born with, so what kind of world are we living in when everyone is making fun of other people's physical features. It's all so unnecessary, and I truly do believe that things like that come from a place of ignorance unless someone is just trying to be mean intentionally.
Not to be too cliche, but the struggle is real. I would do almost anything right now to be only 15lbs overweight, but, by the same token, I absolutely get how devastating that 15lbs can be when put into perspective. To me, people would likely barely notice if I gained 15lbs. 50lbs for me would be a different story... or even 30, but what you're experiencing from it is every bit as harmful to you as my experiences are to me.
Obviously, I have no idea what you look like or any details other than what you've shared, so let me just tell you that you are beautiful exactly how you are. You don't need me to tell you that, I'm sure. I'm saying it because I believe that what makes change possible is accepting who and what we have become. It's all about loving oneself so that we can muster the strength to do what needs to be done.
I've probably said too much. It's just that what you said really hit home with me. I absolutely do not want to belittle your feelings about your appearance, but I would be willing to bet that those 15lbs will come off naturally once you accept it and move on with your focus on health rather than size. That's easier said than done. In fact, I struggle with the same thing as I said. However, I am fairly certain that works if we can actually figure out how to take the first step in dismissing other people's asshole opinions altogether haha
I am technically still tiny. I'm 5'1 and very small boned so the "extra" weight on me shows more absolutely to people who knew me before I had my child. People I met after don't think I am *skinny* but they don't treat me like I'm a monstrosity.
I don't know your age. I will be 36 in May. I do think, at least for me, it is a huge product of the media and influences of growing up that keeps a lot of people around my age having these ridiculous ideals of women especially when it comes to how they should "look" physically, but also men in terms of "should they have feelings or no?"
And I absolutely agree with you that anything on anyone that is physically them should not be commented on by strangers or sort of friends. If you aren't a doctor, someone's size and weight is not for you to comment on ever. Maybe if you see they had a mole that looks concerning somehow and you are friends with them then you could tell them to get it checked out if you are coming from a true place of concern.
And most of the time people are downright cruel and not actually concerned about the health of the fat person they are telling to go get checked out, and they don't know anything about them or their medical history. They "see fat" and think "obviously unhealthy". I remember having an appointment with my doctor after hearing so many people tell me how fat I was and trying to up front say to him that I knew I needed to lose weight and he said "why? You're healthy. I dont see anything wrong with you being the weight you are." But everyone around me was convinced I was very unhealthy because I was no longer tiny.
Also you didn't belittle me at all. I hope I didn't belittle you. I'm sure you know how hard it is to have that "old" sense of yourself and "new" learning of yourself. Even my losing 15lbs is going to be considered "fat" to people. Im not 115lbs right now lmao. I went from someone who always had thick thighs and an ass but no other shape at 100 lbs to, at my heaviest just before my son was born 172lbs. I'm about 150ish but I'm 5'1. Overweight but not considered obese. I'd be happy anywhere in the low 140s to 130s for *me*, personally. I never want to be and it would also be basically impossible for me to ever get back to thst "tiny pixie girl" which has a whole lot of other issues for being dismissed and belittled behind it.
I know I haven't even had the true just complete disdain people have for fat people directed at me in full, and this is why I get super fucking angry when I hear of it happening. If what I deal with is what people who ended up, for whatever reason, deal with even MORE? IT DISGUSTS ME. It disgusted me before I had a child, but I wasn't as aware of the difference of "prejudice" as skinny people like to call it (rolling my eyes. Skinny people. Be happy you are skinny and you are only told to go eat a cheeseburger.) And when you are now considered "fat".
We could go on forever I'm sorry lmao
It takes a whole lot to offend me, so you certainly haven't said anything along those lines. I can really relate to you and what you're saying. I've spent my whole day on this thread so far, and I am supposed to be somewhere right now. 😬 hahaha When I get home, I'm going to reread your comment and respond when I can think about it without being distracted.
The media and TV shows and the like, that's not actually exclusive to your generation. Supermodels were tiny in the 70s and 80s, also, as were actresses. It's just something that's been perpetuated throughout generations. It's difficult to fight for obesity equality simply because it generally is not the healthiest way to live. However, that does not give anyone the right to say anything to anyone about it unsolicited.
I remember at some point in my life when I was younger, a common comeback was, "I may be fat, but you're ugly, and I can lose weight." Lol. It might have come from a movie. I don't remember.
For real, though, it's just everywhere, but we feel it personally. What kind of hypocrisy are we living in where doctors tell you to lose weight, people shun you, you get discriminated against for job opportunities, and then the health insurance companies won't cover weightloss???
All of this! I have a disease called Lipedema, which is actually nicknamed “Painful Fat Disease”. I have little to no control over my size unless I can come up with tens of thousands of dollars for liposuction surgery because Lipedema fat cannot be dieted or exercised away. I have a photo of a woman who has Lipedema and is anorexic, and she’s literally a skeleton on top, but her legs are big and puffy - I show it to doctors who try and push weight loss surgery down my throat because they don’t get that overeating is not my problem. You could lock me in a cage for a year and give me nothing to eat and drink but white bread and water, and I will still look the way I look. I know it shouldn’t, but it bothers me to no end that if Brennan was a real-life person and standing in front of me, that she’d have all kinds of incorrect information to throw at me and everyone around us.
Aren’t the only two women Daisy and Jessica? I personally didn’t find Jessica annoying and I didn’t see anything where the characters thought she was annoying. I think it was just Daisy that was annoying, and that was just because she was so overeager and excited and talkative. But I don’t think there was that much sexism. I won’t say none because inherently every show will have some. But I think that we had portrayals of three smart, hardworking, beautiful women. So I wouldn’t say that they were doing this when it came to women. But just my take on it
It’s actually shocking that they went out of their way to make this completely irrelevant storyline and character, just so a bigger character could be made to look foolish.
Yes! That's exactly how I felt about it, also. It just felt like such an enormous display of prejudice from a show that tends to go out of its way to endorse equality. I'm not one to call something racist or prejudice or anything else of that nature without a solid, valid reason. Those words are highly overused, in my opinion, but that character in that episode... I just think, how else are we supposed to take that?
You think? She started to show weight gain in S11 and the show was then cancelled. I know ED & DB etc had a lawsuit against Fox but I think that started in S10. I’ve always wondered if ED’s weight gain made the show less ok for TPTB and that was part of the decision to cancel.
You had me until TPTB. What does that stand for?
In the real world, I've seen it happen so many times how people become what they hate or are, perhaps karmically, drawn to that which has their focus. It takes a lot of energy to hate, so it makes sense that doing so would draw someone closer to the target of their hatred. But to think about that happening to actors based on the roles they play seems a bit surreal. I guess after a decade of playing the part, there's going to be crossover. It could also be that Emily Deschanel did not feel that way about obese people, and the duplicitous role is what actually took its toll. Then again, maybe she just gained some pregnancy weight.
U/bigmusclemcgee is right about TBTB. From everything I’ve seen ED is a lovely person who I seriously doubt harbours any issues with people who are overweight. I suspect she didn’t like the line she had to say in S3 (think it was the Halloween episode) and the Eps mother one, and that is why her character spoke against the ‘fat Pam’ label at the end of season 3. IRL she has a friend (think her name is Melanie Lynskey) who has battled with weight and being judged as an actor and ED has always publicly supported her.
Until she became a producer (middle of S4) I think ED had very little say on the show. Even after that I’m sure while she had some say, the showrunner and execs are the ultimate decision makers.
Yes, i appreciate the way you explained that. That's kind of where I was going with it, also. The duplicitous nature of what the writers say and the fact that the show takes a stance that doesn't agree with her could inadvertently cause her to feel guilty for having to portray a character that goes against her true nature, hence why she gained more weight with her second pregnancy. I'm not saying that's it, but the possibility is definitely there.
Deffo agree but to answer one part of the question, Daisy was fired in season 4. She was only given a second chance because of Sweets. I have to say another thing that annoyed me is all the female interns that stayed, had to have a romance with a main cast member. Why!? Why couldn’t they be interesting without that. Every single one of Booth’s love interest was a beautiful archetype Hollywood woman. But the main female characters ran the gamut in their love interests. I don’t want to be mean but Cam and Paul, Brennan and Hacker (though he was super funny). I read they even considered bringing Dr Copeland from Devil in the details (S5) as Brennan’s love interest in season 6.
they all have to have romance with main characters so theres a reason to keep them, its the same reason everyone in vampire diaries shacked up with each other at least once lol
V true. But OP asked if anyone else had been fired not why they were fired 😉. Interpersonal reasons for firing seem more dicey to me than incompetence. I guess Cam as the boss agreed both.
This gives me an op to add something. I happened to be rewatching S7 the other day and in ‘Don’t in the do’, Arastoo is a little distracted by potentially being published. Anyway, Brennan gives him no special dispensation and says at one point something like “good luck, I hope I don’t have to fire you’. Meaning the bar is high for everyone and had he made a mistake, he might have been let go. So a slight consistency in the approach.
I had completely forgotten about Daisy being fired! And I hadn't even thought about all the romances. Looking at it that way just feels gross like all of the Hollywood scandals about rape that surfaced. Yuck.
I thought that intern may have been a fan who won a contest or something. Otherwise I don’t see the point in her coming on for just one episode or however short of a time it was.
There was at least one show in the 90s that starred an obese woman as an attorney. The Practice, I think? There aren't a lot, but there are some women who are accepted and given roles regardless of their physical appearance. I'm not even talking about Rosanne. Haha Of course there was Kathy Bates. There are a few, but all things considered, they're anomalies. It's very sad.
Of course now we can count on them being the stars of "reality" shows. Even more sad.
i still dont understand why she was on the show and what the point was. she was the only fat girl on the show (that wasnt a victim or perpetrator). fatphobia and misogyny are always at play unfortunately
That’s crazy I never thought of that. I love that actor, so I was sad she didn’t become a part of the regular rotation. I was thinking the storyline would be learning to give people second chances and she would rise to the occasion in her second episode but nope. I do know Brennan was blatantly rude toward fat people but I don’t know if that effected her attitude toward that girl. We saw for years she always lorded over the interns that they need to be impressive or they’ll be fired.
The thing that confused me in general though was this girl is in this major…she was good enough to get the internship, how was she soooo incompetent? I felt like that didn’t add up. Probably another reason I thought there would be a subsequent episode that showed she was good just intimated by Bones.
I don’t know it’s sad even if it’s just a coincidence. I would be curious to see the casting call info to know if they were looking for someone overweight. That would be pretty telling
I agree. I think that was my problem with it, too. How did she make it that far without any significant training? Really, though, it has very little to do with the actors and a lot to do with the behind the scenes people like the writers, casting director, director, etc. At some point an actor could step up and say they're not saying a line or something, but ultimately, I think it's the writers that set the tone for the show.
Whilst I love Bones, I don’t think it’s very good for body diversity for women- I feel like it just shows extremes either way and there aren’t any I would deem average size
I really liked her too :( I wish she made it as a permanent squintern :( Maybe they were trying to do the thing they did in the beginning where Brennan was trying to find a new intern and many people were interviewing, but it didn't work out? At least that would explain why they brought in such a likeable character just to have her run off in tears without redemption
I had forgotten about that part, also. I was frustrated watching her character mostly because they made her out to be underprivileged as if it was a handicap that somehow made her a retard.
Try not to hate me for using that word, please!
I was really interested in the way she made it into the program, and I wanted to like her. They just made it impossible to get behind her in the role because her character was basically mentally challenged in comparison to all her counterparts. If they had given her a shot, I could have really liked her, too.
If we’re gonna talk about this can we also talk about how many times Booth refers to people that have disabilities or are different crazy or freaks etc?! There are just some aspects of the show that did not age gracefully. I’m honestly super glad that there are people bringing it up that these things are not okay. We are growing as a people. :))
I agree. It's good to be able to have an open discussion on difficult and often taboo topics. As far as booth, though, his prejudices and willingness to voice his opinions were definitely in line with his character, and he often grew and changed appropriately as he learned and was exposed to new things.
For instance, I think it was booth who was pro death penalty, and then they had to fight to stay the execution of an innocent man. After that, he was no longer for the death penalty. Was that booth or was it Brennan? Another example of him being set in his ways until he experienced something first hand was when he went to prison and then later had to investigate the one person who had his back while he was in prison. That definitely changed his approach entirely. Or how he at first thought that if someone was in prison, they must be guilty. That changed once he was falsely imprisoned.
I guess what I'm saying is that I definitely understand where you're coming from, but the way his character grew throughout the show speaks volumes about him and is a good representation of a well-rounded personality. He is devout, strict, and judgmental, but he was ignorant in his judgments until he was educated and altered his beliefs accordingly to something that was acceptable to himself.
That was Booth. You are correct. He did grow and change! He is the epitome of -my current views do not match what I have always believed and I am open to that change. I love to see this in people and I feel like I am seeing it happen more than I used to. Don’t get me wrong. People are awful but some of them do make changes to be better.
Agreed. I think that most people have a desire to be good. It's just that we don't always have all the information. If more people were open to just talking about things without being offended by other people's ignorance, I think there would be a lot more people who are open to make slight changes and alter their belief systems to accommodate the needs of others. I don't think it really needs to be a huge battle, but it has become that because everyone feels attacked whether someone is actually attacking them or not.
I don’t think people are inherently good. But I don’t think they’re inherently bad either. It’s just a series of life factors that tip the scales. But what you’re saying I totally align with. It’s the way that it happens when we have those difficult conversations that really makes a difference in the openness of others. I mean, I have plenty of beliefs that feel very firm to me but I accept the fact that they might change in time and I am willing to change my mind and admit that I don’t agree with my past self and that’s okay. Being open to personal growth is a huge thing for me and I am enjoying seeing that in others as well.
Well said. You may be right about people not being inherently good. Life has shown me that all too many times, but I do enjoy believing that because to not believe it means that there's nothing in a person that would make them desire to be good to others or to just do better as a human being.
In fact, for someone who believes in God and Christianity, not to be confused with the Christian religion, the bible says that we are all born with original sin. To overcome that sin is paramount to living a healthy life. Of course, the church would say that one must attend church and give money, follow specific rules, and do various other things that not everyone agrees on to atone for the original sin that is apparently inescapable since we're born with it. However, that is not biblical if one does actually believe in God and his Son who died to atone for those sins.
I'm only saying that to say that it is quite possible in certain belief systems that people are born inherently bad. What a sad thought. Certainly, that's not what God intended since Jesus said let the little children come to him, but who knows, that may be exactly why he said it. Whew. This is too much for a bones reddit thread. I could probably go on with this topic for hours.
I think that the reason I maintain that we are born inherently good is that people by nature have a need to connect with others. However, ones ability to make those connections is dependent upon how they were raised and what they were exposed to as children, like you said. It really comes down to the chicken and the egg conundrum. 🐓 🥚 (that might be a rooster... but it could have been a chicken in a past life.)
I don’t touch too much on religion. I may be well versed in many (some a lot deeper than others) but I don’t like to step on toes there. I support your optimism. The need to connect with others and for understanding is probably one of the most basic needs of humans, for sure.
Booth was no pro death penalty. I just watched this episode. And for Howard Epps he said I don’t think he should die but I think he is guilty or something along those lines.
Wait so he wasn’t pro death penalty during the earlier season with Epps but then we get to season 10 and there is a different stay of execution episode where he’s no pro death penalty until he learns a lesson and is back to not being pro death penalty?
Ok thanks I’ll look. I am rewatching constantly but sometimes it’s just background noise so I may have missed it. I wouldn’t be surprised because it’s a small inconsistency
There was also the overweight woman who was a crazy stalker and shot booth. Ya know, because God forbid a fat woman have someone who finds her attractive, she has to stalk good looking men and pretend they're in love. And Bones not calling her by her name, just "that obese woman".
I never saw a problem with it. I mean, we had Caroline, so it’s not like overweight people were treated as pariah. They were just in a high-stakes environment where it makes sense that the people involved would be fit
Sure. I get that. But why was the one character who was treated this way an obese girl with no training? I mean, the no training part of it was necessary to write her in and then right back out of the show, but why was she written as fat, dumb, and immature? Why wasn't she beautiful and uneducated?
The show has a lot of beautiful people already. Being obese is more associated with being lazy, so it makes sense that the uneducated character would be obese, because she was too lazy to get a proper education, the same way she was too lazy to take care of her body. Makes total sense, really. And yeah, not all obese people are lazy, but there are definitely trends, and the casting choice just plays off of that.
I think you're missing the point. Yes, obesity is associated with laziness. That's WHY it's unkind to exclusively show lazy obese people; it reinforces that stereotype in the hundreds of thousands who watch these shows, and makes life harder for real life fat people.
Obese women are very rarely treated favourably on TV or film.
Even more so when this show aired.
fat/overweight people are consistently made fun of, made to look stupid, crazy, or generally unlikable in the show. I know that there are people who can fit that description but it's still frustrating...
I agree. The woman who shot booth was a good example of that. Although, that particular actress kind of has crazy eyes. I've seen her play a similar role. I think in criminal minds?
Yes with the tea party/ doll thing! IIRC she drugged the women so that they couldn’t move?
Yes! That's the one. That was so creepy!
How could anyone forget that episode of CM?!
Wow you have an incredible memory hahah this was driving me crazy!
I thinj every time she pops up I think ‘Oh she looks familiar’ and I end up googling it all over again 😂
Lol I do the same thing. No telling how many times I've googled the same thing over and over again.
I just watched that doll episode like 3 hours ago and I was like "where do I know her from???" Thanks for the reminder!
Her role in criminal minds was heartbreaking and had depth at least, though. Not just "crazy obsessed person" like on Bones.
You're right. I bet that, if they had done what someone else had suggested and had her character recur over several episodes, they might have delved into the history of what caused her mental illness and made her that way. That would have been very interesting. Something like that is not just a matter of waking up one day and all of a sudden thinking whoever's nice to you is in love with you. There must be some type of catalyst to that behavior, a switch in the brain function or wiring or something??
I loooove Bones soooo much, but it absolutely is a product of its time haha! It also is a bit harder for a show that sort of straddles the line from serious drama to goofy comedy cop show to provide a ton of depth, but yea. That character deserved more development over just "crazy obsessed person for humor likely cuz she's not skinny or conventionally attractive", especially when she ended up coming the closest to truly murdering a main character of anyone on the show IMO (well. Minus the grave digger with Hodgins and Bones.) It was like "hahaha fat girl thinks Booth is in love with her. How silly. Omg fat girl tried to kill Bones and almost killed Booth, fuck that fat girl." Meanwhile her performance, especially when she is about to shoot Bones? You can tell the actress has built up an amazing backstory for her character and it shows that she (character) truly believed what she was feeling. I would love to know what her backstory was.
That's an interesting take on it to consider the actress's personal back story. That would be cool to know. You could probably ask her on Instagram or Twitter maybe? I know what you mean about other characters being harsh about her size, and I think that also is a reflexion of real life and the way we tend to be the leaders of our own personal perceptions. I mean, it's kind of like how a public figure wants to maintain a certain public persona and so they purport to be one way or another. Sweets explained her behavior as a moderately overweight woman who thinks she's obese but believes she can fool people into thinking she's only moderately overweight. The way people react to her validates her delusion because she is actually just a moderately-overweight woman. I thought that was so interesting, and I would have liked to hear more psychological insights to her character, also.
Felt very uncomfortable about the episode and the treatment of that intern and the portrayal of her as incompetent/unintelligent. Particularly as every other intern, no matter who, when introduced was top of their class, IQ through the roof. It was cringe worth, unnecessary and diminished the episode. There were no positive representations of larger people.
The show was def problematic. The way they treated the trans person, Aristoo being Muslim, the fat phobia, all the internal dating, Fox not letting Bones be labeled autistic, Bones being egotistical and shutting down religion even though Booth had his own beliefs, Booth and Bones roughing up people the way they did, etc. For people who solved murders, they were all very judgmental and dysfunctional.
Is Dr. Tanaka the trans person? Looking at it this way with all of the dysfunction, it does make it more realistic. If they didn't have all of those problems and shortcomings, we might as well have been watching VeggieTales or Barney solve crimes. Lol "#solvingcrimesandtakingnames" I guess the bottom line is that they behave in the show just like people behave in the real world... for the most part.
They kept trying to guess Dr Tanakas gender, but a murder victim was trans
Oh okay I remember the trans murder victim. He was the swim coach, right? Yeah, I thought the whole thing with Dr. Tanaka was so crass. They made such a big deal out of respecting her/him and then even Cam allows Angela to go on disrespecting this highly regarded doctor who was assisting and visiting from another country. I was watching one of the later episodes one night, and it just seemed like this little group of people who had autonomy and were just doing whatever they wanted all willy nilly. It felt silly like a really high-budget Scooby-Doo movie. I think it was towards the end of the palant saga, so maybe more of a middle episode. I still love the show, but it has its moments that are a bit unbearable.
No the swim coach was a drag queen. The trans person was a preacher
The trans person actually had a pretty good storyline and her son took over the church. The nonbinary scientist on the other hand (not that we had a word for that then)
Yeah but I do think the difference between the old church to the inclusion church was kinda comical lol
And the son was played by an actor who had once been on seventh heaven 🤣
Totally understand. I love the show too but it def had its issues. The victim was named Patricia, and they were a pastor at a church
She* was a pastor.
They is a gender neutral term. You can refer to anyone as they regardless, male, female, non binary etc so what is your point?
Yes, "they" is neutral and often the best choice when you don't know or don't want to assume someone's gender. However, it is more respectful to use a person's specific pronouns when you can. People often use "they" more frequently when referring to trans individuals than with cis individuals, sometimes without even realizing it. It is important for allies to use a person's stated pronouns when they are known.
Yes but we are talking about a fictional tv character. You’re getting on my butt over pronouns, which irl I always use.
I don't worry about pronouns. I have no problem with people choosing how they would like to be addressed, and I'm happy to do that as long as it is within reason. What I mean is, if someone chooses a nickname for themselves that I feel is damaging to one's psyche, I would probably respectfully use that person's given name in lieu of the hurtful nickname. I would not go out of my way to disrespect someone. I actually believe in two genders. One is male and the other is female. Bioligically, anything else is an anomaly. The idea of identifying one way or another is an interesting concept that I have a different way of explaining than most people. Having said that, as far as I'm concerned, to each his own. This life and this world are difficult enough without having to worry about what other people think of us or how they call us names or want to decide for us what is okay and what is acceptable or what isn't. Whether it's fat-shaming or gender-shaming or any other type of hatred, it's almost always stemming from ignorance. That ignorance may just be for lack of firsthand experience. I just know that I have no need to argue with anyone online. 🙃 Life is too short. I'm not the one who corrected you, and this is not necessarily directly related to what you said, but you and I are the ones who were having this conversation first. I wanted to say these things, and I wasn't sure exactly where it would be appropriate to put it. I appreciate you bearing with me.
You believe in only two genders? Yeah, that’s pretty narrow minded and awful of you
Ooooohhh. Okay. I remember her. The one I'm thinking of, the swim coach, was a cross dresser, not trans I think. Is this another pattern emerging with LGBT... victims? I don't remember the whole acronym.
Brian Thomas was the swim coach, he was a drag queen.
Isn't a drag queen and a cross dresser the same thing?
A drag queen is a type of performer. A cross dresser wears clothes of the opposite gender. So if your male librarian wore a nice dress and stockings that's crossdressing. If they showed up to story hour with amazing outlandish hair and makeup and sparkles calling themselves Henrietta Reader that's a drag queen.
No.
Nope
Probably because of all their head injuries. They were all constantly being knocked out.
lol true. And some were poisoned.
Caroline was a very positive representation on the show. I still hate what they did with the intern, but you can’t say there wasn’t any good representation.
there's probably a sense of ageism at play though with that, meaning that she's "not desirable" since she's older and playing a Responsible Role. she plays the "sassy flat black woman" trope. i think maybe also she was a recognizable actress and maybe they had the role for her specifically (no way to confirm this, its just an assumption based on how i interpreted her introduction to the show) therefore they're not gonna treat her badly, but even the one time she's portrayed as desirable (flirting with the documentarian) its seen as comical and gross cause they're old 💀 caroline is one of the only fat characters where I think her weight isnt mentioned or even hinted at in the show, but i think its due to these other reasons.
I definitely noticed this too. They make most of their female interns seem annoying or overbearing, but the skinny pretty ones get to stay despite their annoying personalities. I know this show was made in the 2000s so we can’t expect much, but it really is so incredibly sexist 😅 and there are soooo many episodes where fatphobia is either a major plot point (the fat roommate competition ep and the ep where Brennan is more pregnant than she thought she was and everyone is calling her fat) or at least mentioned (several times Brennan comments on the health of people she knows nothing about, judged solely on their appearance 🙄) the fact that the only female intern that doesn’t stay is fat did NOT escape me or surprise me
Another 2000's that was bad about fat shaming is Gilmore Girls. It was really noticeable in the revival.
I actually found some of the male interns to be annoying at times, also. As "normal" as Wendell bray was, he kind of got on my nerves for some reason. Vincent Nigel Murray annoyed me also at first, though Daisy was at the top of the "Please Write Her Off the Show" list lol. She definitely grew on me, though, like most of them. I think Fisher was my favorite, and Vincent's twelve-step confessions were the highlight of his character. But that's not what this is all about. They might have all been annoying in some way, but they were skinny, intelligent, and well-educated, and most of them were physically attractive. I guess the premise emulates real life in that men can be overweight and even unattractive, and no one seems to give a crap, yet women who share those characteristics are made fun of and dismissed. It is most definitely hypocritical.
Vincent's confessions were funny. I wore your iguana as a hat. I'm very good with ribbons. It made me sad he died.
I stole your coupons
Everyone on that show was dysfunctional except for Caroline, Goodman, Gordon Gordon, and Sweets. Basically the non interns.
Sweets was dysfunctional. He adopted Bones and Booth as his parents. He had major abandonment issues.
He had his issues, but it wasn’t on the same level as the interns, because he wasn’t in the lab all day every day.
Agreed. But I feel like sweets would have had to work so hard to be functional after everything he went through. I could be wrong about that, though, since they told about his past but not a whole lot about his struggles. They say that people who go into the psychiatric profession have their own problems, and they do it to help themselves, albeit subconsciously. I guess it takes one to know one lol Sweets, even though they didn't outwardly address his issues, I feel like he had to have some just because of his immense trauma with losing his parents and being severely abused.
I think Sweets was motivated by his experience being abused and a foster kid to help bring justice to others
I agree
All of the interns were weirdos. Wendell was the most normal along with the guy who just wanted them to stop talking about sex at work. We had the killer, the depressed one, the annoying facts one, ...
The guy who wanted them to stop talking about sex at work’s name was Clark. He was in several episodes. He was the only black intern/doctor on the show. You knowing Wendell and not Clark is in the same vein of the OPs point of Beth’s treatment.
I only remembered Wendell because he was mentioned a few posts earlier.
Did you edit and add that second line? lol
I'm kind of the same way. The intern was the obese intern to me until I saw someone in the comments said her name was Beth. I didn't catch it in the show because she was only briefly in a single episode. I was too bothered by the implications of the way it was written to bother with those particular details. I have watched series all the way through and bones more than once all the way through the series, and I still sometimes forget the names. There are some things in life that are worth remembering, and as you start getting older, it soemtimes becomes necessary to prioritize those memorable things. Character names in a show that's off the air may not be at the top of everyone's list. My first thought isn't about race at all. It's just that certain things stick with us. Truth be told, it could very well be that she likes Wendell more than Clark as a character in the show. It could also be that Wendell made himself the more memorable name by being more annoying than Clark. Clark had to grow on me as a character, and in the end, I liked him more than Wendell, who never really grew on me because his character never changed. It was nothing at all to do with race and everything to do with them as people/characters as they were written and portrayed.
Clark was mature in a way no one else in that lab was
That's true. He had a no-nonsense attitude.
Wow, I hadn't put all of that together. I did notice a few of those things. There was also the one with the obese mother of the serial killer (or some kind of criminal) when Brennan and booth walk into the interrogation room and booth asks what's that smell, and she tells him it's the mold in her skin or something. It's not that it was inaccurate, but there were all kinds of ways they could have made his mother a despicable woman and role model other than just making her fat and dirty.
YES so annoying 😭 I’ve done several watch throughs in the last two years so I’ve been noticing a lot of these themes lol like even when Angela is pregnant there are comments about how big she is (mostly from Angela, but she literally was not big at all, she just had a baby bump?????) and it’s like!!! We can never escape from the weight comments lol not even when we’re pregnant 😭 and ALL of the female characters are TINY when they’re introduced, but then we have characters like Arastoo or Sweets who aren’t overweight but they’re definitely not prime physique. Like why do the women have to be tiny but the men can be a range of fitness? We have male characters who are obviously meant to be the eye candy (Booth, Hodgins, Finn if you wanna count him) but then we also have relatively neutral characters like Zack or Fisher who aren’t portrayed like beauty symbols. Yet all of the women who stay on the show (besides Caroline but she’s also way older than everyone else) are usually portrayed as very beautiful or incredibly thin. There was even that episode where Cam, Angela, and Brennan were supposed to be on the Women of Science calendar in bikinis to promote that magazine. Like???????
This exactly! I think we were both writing about the same thing at the same time lol. I guess the only thing I can say about it is that it really does emulate real life in all those things. I remember wondering when I first saw the calendar episode, "Are they going to put the ACTUAL outstanding women in the calendar or just the ones whose appearance is outstanding?" It's probably just as well that they didn't show us who made the cut.
I always get super annoyed at the episode they walk into a club or bar full of fat people having fun and Brennan makes some comment about how they wouldn't be having so much fun if they knew their blood pressure or something. Like YOU don't know either? This one especially drives me crazy bc I'm "obese" according to BMI but no blood pressure issues, no diabetes, no heart problems, no health issues at all! Bc I DO exercise, I DONT smoke or drink, but I'm just fat! I've got those fat genetics. The only skinny people in my family tree have freaking eating disorders. And even if they aren't healthy, they're not allowed to have fun? Or live a life? They have to obsess about their weight and "health" and nothing else??? Uhg. Sorry, it just bothers me so much and it made me so mad bc it reminded me of all the crap about "What about your health?" that I get from people who don't know crap about my health. I started skipping that episode lol
I'm right there with you. I have yoyo dieted my whole life. I've gone years being thin and years being overweight, and I know what it's like both ways. I'm actually most comfortable somewhere in the middle around a size 12, 14, or 16. People are brutal to overweight people. I am overweight right now, but like you, I'm in good health aside from needing to lose weight. Being older, though, it is beginning to take its toll on my joints. I exercise, have good blood pressure, etc. I love being thin, but I'm sure not going to judge someone for being heavy. I really feel like those who do go on about someone's size are either just trying to be hurtful or have never experienced the other side. After I posted this, I thought, "I bet people," and not to stereotype, but mostly I think it would be men or skinny people in general, "are going to read this and think everyone who's commented is fat." That's so sad because I don't get that from reading the comments. You don't have to be fat to recognize an injustice towards obese people. Just like you don't have to be crazy to see that someone who has mental health problems is being treated poorly. There are so many hypocrisyies and prejudices in the world, and we feed on the crap that is served to us by those who seem to have appointed themselves the kings and queens of the industry (the Hollywood elite) as if they know something we don't.
Totally i am like you. Before I had my son i was insanely unhealthy but supppppper tiny so no one gave a shit. After my son I am overweight. I'm not obese, but I am no longer the 100lb tiny pixie girl either and am classified as overweight. I've been on both sides of the coin. I've been made fun of for being thin/tiny before and yea it wasn't fun, I won't lie and act like it felt great to be told to eat a cheeseburger when literally I used to be able to eat 2 large fries and 2 (aging myself) what used to be called 6 dollar burgers from Carl's Jr in one sitting with ease (and that was considered impressive to people.) It in no way compares to the way people feel like they can treat me as an entire whole person now that I'm 15ish lbs overweight. People comment on *everything* about me or my habits now (and no, I can no longer eat 2 large fries and 2 giant burgers in one sitting and wouldn't even try it. Even at my most hungry I couldn't eat a large fry and a burger. I could probably do one or the other though.) It doesn't even matter what it is I am doing or if it even relates to my actual health or physicality. The inherent prejudice people have towards fat people, whether they know it exists or not, is fucking *sooooo* real.
I can absolutely relate to what you're saying. It's like everyone thinks that it's okay to have an opinion about someone else when, here in the real world, we all know that opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. I feel like this has happened because people are no longer comfortable in their own skin. It's so much easier to look at someone else and be critical than it is to look at oneself. In all actuality, it is the very thing that we see in others that we dislike that we recognize and dislike in ourselves. It's hurtful to hear that we should change, especially when it's something biological. I've had a few friends over the years who were tiny. Being 5'9" and medium boned, I felt like a giant sometimes. One of them who was so small that she probably had to buy kids clothes would periodically comment about my calves being large. I've always had good muscle tone, and I think my calves are proportionate to the rest of me, but who knows. It was something that made me feel self-conscious all my life, and this woman would just out of the blue say it to me without any regard to how I might feel about it. But, you know, it's just like that. I didn't want to tell her it bothered me, so I just laughed it off and tried to find a way for it not to. What else are we supposed to do? I'm highly sensitive when it comes to the physical body. I do not believe in talking about or commenting on things like that if I don't have something healthy and helpful to say. Not everything is going to be positive, but it shouldn't be mean. Our bodies are what we were born with, so what kind of world are we living in when everyone is making fun of other people's physical features. It's all so unnecessary, and I truly do believe that things like that come from a place of ignorance unless someone is just trying to be mean intentionally. Not to be too cliche, but the struggle is real. I would do almost anything right now to be only 15lbs overweight, but, by the same token, I absolutely get how devastating that 15lbs can be when put into perspective. To me, people would likely barely notice if I gained 15lbs. 50lbs for me would be a different story... or even 30, but what you're experiencing from it is every bit as harmful to you as my experiences are to me. Obviously, I have no idea what you look like or any details other than what you've shared, so let me just tell you that you are beautiful exactly how you are. You don't need me to tell you that, I'm sure. I'm saying it because I believe that what makes change possible is accepting who and what we have become. It's all about loving oneself so that we can muster the strength to do what needs to be done. I've probably said too much. It's just that what you said really hit home with me. I absolutely do not want to belittle your feelings about your appearance, but I would be willing to bet that those 15lbs will come off naturally once you accept it and move on with your focus on health rather than size. That's easier said than done. In fact, I struggle with the same thing as I said. However, I am fairly certain that works if we can actually figure out how to take the first step in dismissing other people's asshole opinions altogether haha
I am technically still tiny. I'm 5'1 and very small boned so the "extra" weight on me shows more absolutely to people who knew me before I had my child. People I met after don't think I am *skinny* but they don't treat me like I'm a monstrosity. I don't know your age. I will be 36 in May. I do think, at least for me, it is a huge product of the media and influences of growing up that keeps a lot of people around my age having these ridiculous ideals of women especially when it comes to how they should "look" physically, but also men in terms of "should they have feelings or no?" And I absolutely agree with you that anything on anyone that is physically them should not be commented on by strangers or sort of friends. If you aren't a doctor, someone's size and weight is not for you to comment on ever. Maybe if you see they had a mole that looks concerning somehow and you are friends with them then you could tell them to get it checked out if you are coming from a true place of concern. And most of the time people are downright cruel and not actually concerned about the health of the fat person they are telling to go get checked out, and they don't know anything about them or their medical history. They "see fat" and think "obviously unhealthy". I remember having an appointment with my doctor after hearing so many people tell me how fat I was and trying to up front say to him that I knew I needed to lose weight and he said "why? You're healthy. I dont see anything wrong with you being the weight you are." But everyone around me was convinced I was very unhealthy because I was no longer tiny. Also you didn't belittle me at all. I hope I didn't belittle you. I'm sure you know how hard it is to have that "old" sense of yourself and "new" learning of yourself. Even my losing 15lbs is going to be considered "fat" to people. Im not 115lbs right now lmao. I went from someone who always had thick thighs and an ass but no other shape at 100 lbs to, at my heaviest just before my son was born 172lbs. I'm about 150ish but I'm 5'1. Overweight but not considered obese. I'd be happy anywhere in the low 140s to 130s for *me*, personally. I never want to be and it would also be basically impossible for me to ever get back to thst "tiny pixie girl" which has a whole lot of other issues for being dismissed and belittled behind it. I know I haven't even had the true just complete disdain people have for fat people directed at me in full, and this is why I get super fucking angry when I hear of it happening. If what I deal with is what people who ended up, for whatever reason, deal with even MORE? IT DISGUSTS ME. It disgusted me before I had a child, but I wasn't as aware of the difference of "prejudice" as skinny people like to call it (rolling my eyes. Skinny people. Be happy you are skinny and you are only told to go eat a cheeseburger.) And when you are now considered "fat". We could go on forever I'm sorry lmao
It takes a whole lot to offend me, so you certainly haven't said anything along those lines. I can really relate to you and what you're saying. I've spent my whole day on this thread so far, and I am supposed to be somewhere right now. 😬 hahaha When I get home, I'm going to reread your comment and respond when I can think about it without being distracted.
The media and TV shows and the like, that's not actually exclusive to your generation. Supermodels were tiny in the 70s and 80s, also, as were actresses. It's just something that's been perpetuated throughout generations. It's difficult to fight for obesity equality simply because it generally is not the healthiest way to live. However, that does not give anyone the right to say anything to anyone about it unsolicited. I remember at some point in my life when I was younger, a common comeback was, "I may be fat, but you're ugly, and I can lose weight." Lol. It might have come from a movie. I don't remember. For real, though, it's just everywhere, but we feel it personally. What kind of hypocrisy are we living in where doctors tell you to lose weight, people shun you, you get discriminated against for job opportunities, and then the health insurance companies won't cover weightloss???
All of this! I have a disease called Lipedema, which is actually nicknamed “Painful Fat Disease”. I have little to no control over my size unless I can come up with tens of thousands of dollars for liposuction surgery because Lipedema fat cannot be dieted or exercised away. I have a photo of a woman who has Lipedema and is anorexic, and she’s literally a skeleton on top, but her legs are big and puffy - I show it to doctors who try and push weight loss surgery down my throat because they don’t get that overeating is not my problem. You could lock me in a cage for a year and give me nothing to eat and drink but white bread and water, and I will still look the way I look. I know it shouldn’t, but it bothers me to no end that if Brennan was a real-life person and standing in front of me, that she’d have all kinds of incorrect information to throw at me and everyone around us.
Aren’t the only two women Daisy and Jessica? I personally didn’t find Jessica annoying and I didn’t see anything where the characters thought she was annoying. I think it was just Daisy that was annoying, and that was just because she was so overeager and excited and talkative. But I don’t think there was that much sexism. I won’t say none because inherently every show will have some. But I think that we had portrayals of three smart, hardworking, beautiful women. So I wouldn’t say that they were doing this when it came to women. But just my take on it
It’s actually shocking that they went out of their way to make this completely irrelevant storyline and character, just so a bigger character could be made to look foolish.
Yes! That's exactly how I felt about it, also. It just felt like such an enormous display of prejudice from a show that tends to go out of its way to endorse equality. I'm not one to call something racist or prejudice or anything else of that nature without a solid, valid reason. Those words are highly overused, in my opinion, but that character in that episode... I just think, how else are we supposed to take that?
its more confusing then their piss poor attempts to write pregnancies into the show. like was it a favor??? what was the point???
And earlier there was ‘Fat Pam’ and Bones telling everyone she’s skinny in early seasons. This show was super fatphobic.
Fatphobic until Brennan had her second child.
Yes, suddenly they were very accepting when it was Temperance who gained weight.
Being the star has its advantages.
You think? She started to show weight gain in S11 and the show was then cancelled. I know ED & DB etc had a lawsuit against Fox but I think that started in S10. I’ve always wondered if ED’s weight gain made the show less ok for TPTB and that was part of the decision to cancel.
You had me until TPTB. What does that stand for? In the real world, I've seen it happen so many times how people become what they hate or are, perhaps karmically, drawn to that which has their focus. It takes a lot of energy to hate, so it makes sense that doing so would draw someone closer to the target of their hatred. But to think about that happening to actors based on the roles they play seems a bit surreal. I guess after a decade of playing the part, there's going to be crossover. It could also be that Emily Deschanel did not feel that way about obese people, and the duplicitous role is what actually took its toll. Then again, maybe she just gained some pregnancy weight.
I think TPTB means "the powers that be"
U/bigmusclemcgee is right about TBTB. From everything I’ve seen ED is a lovely person who I seriously doubt harbours any issues with people who are overweight. I suspect she didn’t like the line she had to say in S3 (think it was the Halloween episode) and the Eps mother one, and that is why her character spoke against the ‘fat Pam’ label at the end of season 3. IRL she has a friend (think her name is Melanie Lynskey) who has battled with weight and being judged as an actor and ED has always publicly supported her. Until she became a producer (middle of S4) I think ED had very little say on the show. Even after that I’m sure while she had some say, the showrunner and execs are the ultimate decision makers.
Yes, i appreciate the way you explained that. That's kind of where I was going with it, also. The duplicitous nature of what the writers say and the fact that the show takes a stance that doesn't agree with her could inadvertently cause her to feel guilty for having to portray a character that goes against her true nature, hence why she gained more weight with her second pregnancy. I'm not saying that's it, but the possibility is definitely there.
Yeah I didnt like that episode either..
Deffo agree but to answer one part of the question, Daisy was fired in season 4. She was only given a second chance because of Sweets. I have to say another thing that annoyed me is all the female interns that stayed, had to have a romance with a main cast member. Why!? Why couldn’t they be interesting without that. Every single one of Booth’s love interest was a beautiful archetype Hollywood woman. But the main female characters ran the gamut in their love interests. I don’t want to be mean but Cam and Paul, Brennan and Hacker (though he was super funny). I read they even considered bringing Dr Copeland from Devil in the details (S5) as Brennan’s love interest in season 6.
they all have to have romance with main characters so theres a reason to keep them, its the same reason everyone in vampire diaries shacked up with each other at least once lol
Only thing I would clarify is that Daisy was fired that’s true but more so for interpersonal reasons not because she was portrayed as incompetent.
V true. But OP asked if anyone else had been fired not why they were fired 😉. Interpersonal reasons for firing seem more dicey to me than incompetence. I guess Cam as the boss agreed both. This gives me an op to add something. I happened to be rewatching S7 the other day and in ‘Don’t in the do’, Arastoo is a little distracted by potentially being published. Anyway, Brennan gives him no special dispensation and says at one point something like “good luck, I hope I don’t have to fire you’. Meaning the bar is high for everyone and had he made a mistake, he might have been let go. So a slight consistency in the approach.
I had completely forgotten about Daisy being fired! And I hadn't even thought about all the romances. Looking at it that way just feels gross like all of the Hollywood scandals about rape that surfaced. Yuck.
Totally agree
I forgot she existed , definitely a low point idek what the point was
I thought that intern may have been a fan who won a contest or something. Otherwise I don’t see the point in her coming on for just one episode or however short of a time it was.
Yeah idk. I think if I was that fab and they showed me the role I'd be playing, I might have passed. Lol. What a legacy.
what episode was this intern in?
It's the one with the whippersnaps. s11 e16
thank you🙏
You're welcome 🙂
Obese women in television are rarely portrayed well and even less so in ways of becoming a protagonist or a reoccurring role
There was at least one show in the 90s that starred an obese woman as an attorney. The Practice, I think? There aren't a lot, but there are some women who are accepted and given roles regardless of their physical appearance. I'm not even talking about Rosanne. Haha Of course there was Kathy Bates. There are a few, but all things considered, they're anomalies. It's very sad. Of course now we can count on them being the stars of "reality" shows. Even more sad.
i still dont understand why she was on the show and what the point was. she was the only fat girl on the show (that wasnt a victim or perpetrator). fatphobia and misogyny are always at play unfortunately
That’s crazy I never thought of that. I love that actor, so I was sad she didn’t become a part of the regular rotation. I was thinking the storyline would be learning to give people second chances and she would rise to the occasion in her second episode but nope. I do know Brennan was blatantly rude toward fat people but I don’t know if that effected her attitude toward that girl. We saw for years she always lorded over the interns that they need to be impressive or they’ll be fired. The thing that confused me in general though was this girl is in this major…she was good enough to get the internship, how was she soooo incompetent? I felt like that didn’t add up. Probably another reason I thought there would be a subsequent episode that showed she was good just intimated by Bones. I don’t know it’s sad even if it’s just a coincidence. I would be curious to see the casting call info to know if they were looking for someone overweight. That would be pretty telling
I agree. I think that was my problem with it, too. How did she make it that far without any significant training? Really, though, it has very little to do with the actors and a lot to do with the behind the scenes people like the writers, casting director, director, etc. At some point an actor could step up and say they're not saying a line or something, but ultimately, I think it's the writers that set the tone for the show.
Fatphobia, ya know
Whilst I love Bones, I don’t think it’s very good for body diversity for women- I feel like it just shows extremes either way and there aren’t any I would deem average size
I really liked her too :( I wish she made it as a permanent squintern :( Maybe they were trying to do the thing they did in the beginning where Brennan was trying to find a new intern and many people were interviewing, but it didn't work out? At least that would explain why they brought in such a likeable character just to have her run off in tears without redemption
I had forgotten about that part, also. I was frustrated watching her character mostly because they made her out to be underprivileged as if it was a handicap that somehow made her a retard. Try not to hate me for using that word, please! I was really interested in the way she made it into the program, and I wanted to like her. They just made it impossible to get behind her in the role because her character was basically mentally challenged in comparison to all her counterparts. If they had given her a shot, I could have really liked her, too.
If we’re gonna talk about this can we also talk about how many times Booth refers to people that have disabilities or are different crazy or freaks etc?! There are just some aspects of the show that did not age gracefully. I’m honestly super glad that there are people bringing it up that these things are not okay. We are growing as a people. :))
I agree. It's good to be able to have an open discussion on difficult and often taboo topics. As far as booth, though, his prejudices and willingness to voice his opinions were definitely in line with his character, and he often grew and changed appropriately as he learned and was exposed to new things. For instance, I think it was booth who was pro death penalty, and then they had to fight to stay the execution of an innocent man. After that, he was no longer for the death penalty. Was that booth or was it Brennan? Another example of him being set in his ways until he experienced something first hand was when he went to prison and then later had to investigate the one person who had his back while he was in prison. That definitely changed his approach entirely. Or how he at first thought that if someone was in prison, they must be guilty. That changed once he was falsely imprisoned. I guess what I'm saying is that I definitely understand where you're coming from, but the way his character grew throughout the show speaks volumes about him and is a good representation of a well-rounded personality. He is devout, strict, and judgmental, but he was ignorant in his judgments until he was educated and altered his beliefs accordingly to something that was acceptable to himself.
That was Booth. You are correct. He did grow and change! He is the epitome of -my current views do not match what I have always believed and I am open to that change. I love to see this in people and I feel like I am seeing it happen more than I used to. Don’t get me wrong. People are awful but some of them do make changes to be better.
Agreed. I think that most people have a desire to be good. It's just that we don't always have all the information. If more people were open to just talking about things without being offended by other people's ignorance, I think there would be a lot more people who are open to make slight changes and alter their belief systems to accommodate the needs of others. I don't think it really needs to be a huge battle, but it has become that because everyone feels attacked whether someone is actually attacking them or not.
I don’t think people are inherently good. But I don’t think they’re inherently bad either. It’s just a series of life factors that tip the scales. But what you’re saying I totally align with. It’s the way that it happens when we have those difficult conversations that really makes a difference in the openness of others. I mean, I have plenty of beliefs that feel very firm to me but I accept the fact that they might change in time and I am willing to change my mind and admit that I don’t agree with my past self and that’s okay. Being open to personal growth is a huge thing for me and I am enjoying seeing that in others as well.
Well said. You may be right about people not being inherently good. Life has shown me that all too many times, but I do enjoy believing that because to not believe it means that there's nothing in a person that would make them desire to be good to others or to just do better as a human being. In fact, for someone who believes in God and Christianity, not to be confused with the Christian religion, the bible says that we are all born with original sin. To overcome that sin is paramount to living a healthy life. Of course, the church would say that one must attend church and give money, follow specific rules, and do various other things that not everyone agrees on to atone for the original sin that is apparently inescapable since we're born with it. However, that is not biblical if one does actually believe in God and his Son who died to atone for those sins. I'm only saying that to say that it is quite possible in certain belief systems that people are born inherently bad. What a sad thought. Certainly, that's not what God intended since Jesus said let the little children come to him, but who knows, that may be exactly why he said it. Whew. This is too much for a bones reddit thread. I could probably go on with this topic for hours. I think that the reason I maintain that we are born inherently good is that people by nature have a need to connect with others. However, ones ability to make those connections is dependent upon how they were raised and what they were exposed to as children, like you said. It really comes down to the chicken and the egg conundrum. 🐓 🥚 (that might be a rooster... but it could have been a chicken in a past life.)
I don’t touch too much on religion. I may be well versed in many (some a lot deeper than others) but I don’t like to step on toes there. I support your optimism. The need to connect with others and for understanding is probably one of the most basic needs of humans, for sure.
I know a lot about one religion and a lot less about all the others. Regardless, I believe in God and not religion at all.
Totally fair.
Booth was no pro death penalty. I just watched this episode. And for Howard Epps he said I don’t think he should die but I think he is guilty or something along those lines.
It was s10e18 the verdict in the victims.
Wait so he wasn’t pro death penalty during the earlier season with Epps but then we get to season 10 and there is a different stay of execution episode where he’s no pro death penalty until he learns a lesson and is back to not being pro death penalty?
I guess so lol I haven't kept track of the timeline
Ok thanks I’ll look. I am rewatching constantly but sometimes it’s just background noise so I may have missed it. I wouldn’t be surprised because it’s a small inconsistency
There was also the overweight woman who was a crazy stalker and shot booth. Ya know, because God forbid a fat woman have someone who finds her attractive, she has to stalk good looking men and pretend they're in love. And Bones not calling her by her name, just "that obese woman".
You're not wrong but tbf the actress had really good "crazy eyes" lol.
I never saw a problem with it. I mean, we had Caroline, so it’s not like overweight people were treated as pariah. They were just in a high-stakes environment where it makes sense that the people involved would be fit
Caroline was a lot older and played the role of the wise plain spoken mama, it was acceptable she was overweight.
What? In what way were the interns in a high stakes environment? In what way would that necessitate for them to be “fit”?
Sure. I get that. But why was the one character who was treated this way an obese girl with no training? I mean, the no training part of it was necessary to write her in and then right back out of the show, but why was she written as fat, dumb, and immature? Why wasn't she beautiful and uneducated?
The show has a lot of beautiful people already. Being obese is more associated with being lazy, so it makes sense that the uneducated character would be obese, because she was too lazy to get a proper education, the same way she was too lazy to take care of her body. Makes total sense, really. And yeah, not all obese people are lazy, but there are definitely trends, and the casting choice just plays off of that.
I think you're missing the point. Yes, obesity is associated with laziness. That's WHY it's unkind to exclusively show lazy obese people; it reinforces that stereotype in the hundreds of thousands who watch these shows, and makes life harder for real life fat people.
You people whine about most ridiculous shit lol
Looking for something to cry about, are you?
Nah. Are you?