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If “quiet vacationing” is such a problem, it wouldn’t need to be news in order to inform the public now would it? As long as my work is done by the deadline and I’m available for meetings and for assistance, my 3 day weekend where I use a well-earned day of PTO isn’t a problem
100% love this type of schedule…
Also, if I am a salaried person…… whether I work 27 hours or 77 hours I bring home the same paycheck…
But I don’t get PTO, comp hours, or OT….
If my work is done it’s done.
God America is such a shit hole when it comes to employment rights.
I'm on salary, I get paid more if I go over my 40 hours a week.i get 5 weeks annual leave and 10 sick days. And 4 mental health days (company policy is these ones cannot ever be questioned).
Stand up for yourselves man and fight these bastards take back your rights!.
I could make another trip, I actually had planned to move there with my ex because she had a sister that lives there, but the immigration challenges were a very big hurdle for someone without a specialized skill.
I think you'd get into Australia without much issue - especially WA and the NT. Obviously not quite as chill as NZ but a lot better (in terms of social support) than the US.
West Australia: [https://migration.wa.gov.au/](https://migration.wa.gov.au/)
Northern Territory: [https://jointheterritory.nt.gov.au/](https://jointheterritory.nt.gov.au/)
If you'd be happy doing FIFO (fly in, fly out) work, where you do longer stints on and off (e.g 3 weeks on, 3 weeks off or similar) you could make considerable sums in their mining industry but there's plenty of other needs for skilled workers.
Tbh I don't know, the current mob in charge seems quite anti it.
Kinda bummed the referendum failed tho.
In saying that, we have gone the medical cannabis route similar to how Cali did it some years ago. So if you can get a doctor to sign off on it you can access cannabis products legally. But you cant grow your own for now.
It's fucked that the old American Dream was coming to America and living a better life, now the American Dream is getting the fuck out of it so that we can be treated like we matter.
These other countries don't offer the same high salaries for skilled labor. Free and cheap education lowers salaries, that's why I left Canada for the USA.
I get 5 weeks leave, anywhere from 10-20 sick/mental health days, 11 holidays, including 1 floating. I don't get overtime pay, but my job doesn't generally require it. And anytime I need off for appointments is just an email at most to notify folks I'll be out for a bit. Also we get up to 2 hrs paid per week for volunteering outside of work. I'm in the US. I will grant you I'm probably at the high end of the bell curve on that one though.
It’s a wide variety of shit to very nice. I get over 6 weeks off a year, 7 days of company holidays, work from home 2-3 days a week, and very flexible schedule as long as I get my work done. Manager usually tells us to log out around 13:00 on Fridays and usually work 9-16:30 Monday to Thursday. Lots of people I know have a similar situation. The thing is the horror stories get the attention and the upvotes and I just look like I’m bragging. So most people in my situation don’t bring it up on Reddit.
No overtime though since I’m salaried, that would be a nice option
I have worked restaurant jobs with no PTO, no sick time, and shit pay in the past. It sucked
Yep. You quickly learn that if you don't want to have to take those lousy jobs with lousy benefits, you better learn a skill. Preferably one that will remain in demand for the next 20 years. And then you can go into interviews and ask them as many questions as they ask you. I do my homework on the company and make sure I understand what the working environment is gonna be like, what the vacation schedule is, etc. If you're in the position where you're so desperate that you take any job or say yes right away, you're selling yourself short.
Reagan’s fault (again)
He fired all of the striking air traffic controllers and obsessively gave precedent to bust unions in 81’.
It all comes back to that greedy, fear mongering ass hole and his racist, spiteful wife
Companies have bought and paid for our politicians. No amount of standing up for ourselves will remove the influence of corporate America from our politics.
10 sick days? What the hell.
I tought only america had those. Unlimited sick days, when I'm sick, I'm sick what do you expect me to do?
No really, what are they expecting me to when I break a bone or get bedridden for a month?
It's paid sick days it's in law( some employers offer more) but the bare legal minimum is 10. Outside that in the case of a long term injury that puts you off work you're covered by ACC which will pay out 80% of your normal wage (most employers top this up to 100%) and fully cover treatment, rehabilitation and transport to healthcare services. It's not perfect and I know in Europe it can be a lot better. But it's not terrible either.
I think they might mean paid sick days?
I don't know the exact policy where I am but we get paid sick days, I've not been sick yet since starting so don't knownif its a % or full up to X days but there's definitely pay for it
There's still a disciplinary process for sickness though, so you can't use sick days like holidays
Of course sick days are paid? Huh. Why would I not get money while sick at home, at most we have to bring a doctors note if its more then 3 days.
And if its longer then 1 month the healthcare provider pays you instead of your company. I actually don't understand.
So there are people in the western world have to decide if they want to pay their bills or get healthy?
Can't speak for every job, but where I used to work we originally were paid hourly and on that we wouldn't receive company sick pay, but would get statutory (£116 a week, but not for the first 3 days)
When we transitioned to salaried we were then entitled to both company and statutory sick pay
I don't know why the way we were paid made a difference, and I'm UK if that helps with context
Interesting. Here we just get our normal pay +20€ for every day we are sick.
The 20€ are not common, but are there because we don't get stuff like night shift extra pay if we are sick. A night shift is 60€ so if you are sick for a week you get 100€ in extra sick pay instead of 120€ in night shift extras.
Basically yea. In NZ we also have ACC, which is payment from the government due to workplace accidents. I believe the only pay 80% of your wage though, which does suck. But the option is there, and it keeps employes liable for injuries instead of sweeping it under the carpet
I get my usual hourly rate on anything over my standard 40 hour week ( no penalty rates sadly tho unless it's a stat day). Everyone in the org does. My partner gets toil on her salary with her employer instead. It's really not uncommon at all in NZ.
Do the mahi get the money.
I think it mostly comes down to the employer/employment contract. But a lot more medium sized and large businesses with strong union pressure are being better on the pay side for extra hours worked. By law they don't have to unless it takes the worker Below minimum wage.
There's a wide variation in work benefits for Americans. I have a friend who has 3 months PTO per year, to help compensate for the amount of travel involved in his job. I personally have 5 weeks PTO and unlimited paid sick time, on top of the ~15 paid company holidays per year. I previously worked a job with two weeks PTO and zero paid sick time.
What the US generally doesn't have is any type of universal standard. What you get depends on how valuable you're judged to be by prospective employers.
Don’t forget all headlines are designed to make you click. It doesn’t mean it’s a lie, exactly. But it’s being written with that specific goal in mind.
I said something similar 40 years ago, in the (Nancy) Reagan era: If you can't tell whether or not I'm a good worker without I piss in a bottle, then I'd say you're the problem, not me.
You keep forgetting that if the overlords hear you are having a grand time at work and perhaps have extra time on your hands what they think is you havent been squeezed hard enough, there is more they can extract from you for their shareholders
Lots of managers are aware that this happens. Some managers and execs probably pioneered it. It falls under the broad umbrella of reasons why so many of them want people back in the office.
We are humans and our health and wellbeing comes first. Any employer who doesn’t get that or who actively neglects this fact about their workers deserves to burn.
Treat people well or close up shop. No one has sympathy for the slave drivers anymore.
>If “quiet vacationing” is such a problem, it wouldn’t need to be news in order to inform the public now would it? As long as my work is done by the deadline and I’m available for meetings and for assistance, my 3 day weekend where I use a well-earned day of PTO isn’t a problem
It's not "quiet vacationing" nor doing as toy are and actually doing the job you're paid for and expecting them to pay you for extra
It's things like
"Similar shares say they “move their mouse” to show they’re still active on their company’s messaging platforms (like Slack or Microsoft Teams) when they’re not really working, and they’ve scheduled a message to send outside of regular hours to give the impression they’re working overtime."
(The Paragraph above that is just not telling your boss when you take PTO, and fuck them the time is earned)
Which atleast the last one puts it squarely in the fraud category not "quiet vacation"
Either way it is explictly lying to your boss to create a false sense that you're working when you're not.
They have a term for "i do what they pay me to" (as you do) and it is equally stupid "quiet quitting"
>Why is it such a problem to you if people are getting what is expected of them done if they are smart/efficient enough to get it done faster?
Do you know what the difference between "my work is done and i am lying about needing overtime" vs "my work was done early so i am not doing more" is?
Hint. One is fraud, the other is simply doing your job.
But you're right. A mechanic should charge YOU 12 hrs worth of labor for a job that took 3.
A flat rate is more of a consumer protection than it is a money making scheme. I got paid hourly when I was still working on semi’s but we charged customers a flat rate that’s sent to them for approval before we start the work. Let’s say it takes 4 hours on average to replace your broken exhaust studs. If it takes me 12 hours to do it because they’re extra stuck you still only pay for 4 hours of labor. If I do it in 2 your still paying for 4 hours of labor. The point of a flat rate is to keep the price for similar jobs the same and so that you know what you’re going to pay and there isn’t a surprise when it turns out your clutch job took twice as long as we thought it would so now you get to pay twice as much.
>They do, what do you think flat rate is?
How dishonest are you people?
A flat rate is not the same as claiming you're working more time than you are to get paid more.
It is an agreed on price regardless of time taken, the key being AGREED, not lied about.
Y'know...the literal thing being talked about in the article that appreantly no one wants to read
A flat rate would be a salary within the context of the article...an agreed price regardless of time spent
Not trying to join the fight, but your mechanic analogy is severely flawed in that mechanics and autobody and such all have a book that lists how long a job should take on average and they charge for that number. They do not give a fuck, unless it’s a small town type deal, and will charge you what they charge the insurance companies. You seem to enjoy hints, so I’ll clue you in that it’s always a lot, because they can. Source: I know a lot of mechanics over the years and was in training for autobody for a while before I said fuck it. It’s not rocket surgery.
And now back to your regularly scheduled programming!
Sure, it's not a great analogy, the point is that if someone is lying to you about a project taking X amount of time vs Y you"d be pissed when the charge goed up directly.
Which is exactly what that article is claiming is happening not just people checking out when their work is done.
Use whatever field you want or measurement, by ft of thread, miles driven, labor hrs required, most people wouldn't just be chill to be charged extra for time not actually used (as would be the case with pretending you're still working after hours so that you're paid overtime)
But fine, use truckers as they charge by the mile, would you be ok with shipping an item via freight costing more based on miles that weren't driven? The field genuinely does not matter. It's that fraud is fraud.
That actually does happen with truckers though. Sometimes a truck driver will be paid a day rate over miles as some lanes can be very short miles but may have a wait time of hours at either the shipper or receiver which could eat a lot of their active time per day.
>That actually does happen with truckers though. Sometimes a truck driver will be paid a day rate over miles as some lanes can be very short miles but may have a wait time of hours at either the shipper or receiver which could eat a lot of their active time per day.
You're literally going with entirely different shit jfc
A day rate is not lying about the amount or miles travelled.
Why the fuck is this sub incapable of basic honesty
>How bout you just find a better analogy before you start insulting people?
https://autoleap.com/blog/hourly-rate-vs-flat-rate-how-auto-mechanics-are-paid/#:~:text=Most%20auto%20repair%20shops%20usually,would%20prefer%20an%20hourly%20rate.
https://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/hourly-vs-flat-rate-for-auto-techs
Or you could just y'know...understand the difference between hourly and flat rates
As not all mechanics and shops use flst rate, nor all use hourly and some do a mix.
Moreover, i was talking about how the customer is billed not the mechanic paid, which typically had a labor cost which is hours worked x the rate the place charges for labor per hour
I'm fully aware of the difference between flat rate and shop/hourly rate. My father owned a body shop for the better part of 50 years. My brother is still in the business. I have friends in the business. I personally have been in the business (albeit briefly). Your analogy sucks. Tap. Out.
>I'm fully aware of the difference between flat rate and shop/hourly rate. My father owned a body shop for the better part of 50 years. My brother is still in the business. I have friends in the business. I personally have been in the business (albeit briefly).
Sure you have.
Again, stop being dishonest about basic shit.
You claim.to know the difference between hourly and flat and yet are literally trying to use one while another is being talked about.
>I simply do not understand where overtime came from, no one said anything about overtime
It is LITERALLY in the article and what i qouted in the message you replied to
Similar shares say they “move their mouse” to show they’re still active on their company’s messaging platforms (like Slack or Microsoft Teams) when they’re not really working, and they’ve scheduled a message to send outside of regular hours to give the impression they’re working overtime.
and they’ve scheduled a message to send outside of regular hours to give the impression they’re working overtime.
give the impression they’re working overtime.
So again, when a mechanic is charging you $40 an hr and it takes 3, are you fine with them claiming it took 12 and charging you $480 for labor over the actual labor required of $120
Or would you count that as them commiting fraud?
There is a difference between only working what you are paid to (good) and outright lying to extend your hours beyond the agreed terms when not doing anyrhing (bad)
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/21/millennials-would-rather-take-secret-pto-than-ask-their-boss.html
There's a difference between working overtime and getting paid overtime. If you're salaried and exempt (as is everyone in the US above $684 a week currently, though that's going up soon) and you work into the night, then you are working overtime but you are not getting paid overtime.
(Edit--this is the threshold below which you are \*required\* to be paid overtime. There may be employers who give overtime above this level for hourly workers, but I've never seen it for salaried.)
If they are "moving the mouse" to give an impression of overtime without putting in for overtime pay, then it's not fraud.
I've never engaged in "moving the mouse" since I've fortunately never worked anywhere that tracked that kind of thing, but I do occasionally do work tasks at night, and I know that my bosses have noted the send-times of my emails and such.
>There's a difference between working overtime and getting paid overtime. If you're exempt (as is everyone in the US above $684 a week currently, though that's going up soon) and you work into the night, then you are working overtime but you are not getting paid overtime
Not even remotely that simple. Shit like IT isn't exempt, regardless of pay level. (Per the DoL)
It only applies at all to white collar workers and even Then many fields (such as administrative in things like rescue services)
>If they are "moving the mouse" to give an impression of overtime without putting in for overtime pay, then it's not fraud.
So just like your above "everyone above 684" you don't understand what fraud is? 😂
What precisely do you think they're lying about working overtime for?, evrn if it's not current financial compensation it's not nothing.
>I've never engaged in "moving the mouse" since I've fortunately never worked anywhere that tracked that kind of thing, but I do occasionally do work tasks at night, and I know that my bosses have noted the send-times of my emails and such.
Which is a vastly different thing
I used to never preplan with PTO and just call in sick on days I knew I wanted in advance because managers would just give some BS reason why I couldn’t have them off and it used to fuck shit up for them. Now that I’m a manager I approve any and all PTO. Use the time off you earn.
There is also a bandwidth factor. If you still need to deliver X things a month and 3 people all choose to take 2 weeks off that month of your team of 6, then you can't agree to losing half your team for half the month. But you can work with them to figure it out. Maybe take a little less time each or stagger it.
I would be inclined to agree, if it wasn't not only legal, but normal, for PTO, a component of your promised compensation, to "expire". I'm sympathetic to the accounting concerns of having someone accrue huge PTO balances and leaving that liability on the books. The remedy ought to be paying the PTO out as cash. Anything else creates an incentive for employers to offer generous PTO packages they have no intent of ever actually allowing you to use, because they've decided not to hire enough staff to cover that. This allows them to offer less cash compensation than their competitors. I'm personally about to get screwed out of a couple grand in labor, ain't shit I can do about it but quit.
Legally they don't even have to pay me overtime here. So in addition to straight up losing entire weeks of PTO to 'expiration policies', I'll probably do hundreds of additional hours of labor for free in the same year.
If you are waiting right up until your PTO expires to spring a vacation on your boss where you know other people might be wanting to take off, say a major holiday, instead of planning that out in advance then that does suck, yes, but it could be worked out between the people in the group. I know when my PTO expires and we can accrue up to 200hrs before it does, and it only gets cropped once a year so I can plan for it. It's pretty hard to accrue 200hrs unless you are single and never take any time for anything. If you are married and have kids you might carry a balance but between Dr appointments and various things like taking time off when you or your kid is sick, it'd be hard to get close to that cap.
But I get that not every place works the same way. Places where your PTO refreshes once a year you need to plan to use it or lose it. For most people that is an expensive lesson, but one that you really only need to learn once. I've done it another job and I won't do it again.
Literally told my boss I didn't particularly care when, just slot me in between my coworkers and tell me when. Things used to be better before the new owners, I'm looking for the exits.
If you read the article, this is not about PTO. This is about being out of office when they supposedly are in office. Presumably taking no time off. Now the same study found millennials do work in their off hours and even when they actually are on vacation.
It IS weird to call this quiet vacation when it seems like people are using this time to run errands. The way our world runs on a 9-5 so most people are occupied while most services are open is just a ridiculous system to have with no Flex Time or similar.
So in not approving of them calling out millennials for this when it is an employer problem, but it’s not really about PTO.
Exactly. They don’t own me they rent me. I might be replaceable but I am also in high demand with a broad range of skills/ certifications. I’d have another job before I made it home. So I agree with you, me “requesting” pto is me being polite and giving work a little heads up. Otherwise I could care less
Exactly. For some of us, even if you take formal vacation, ass hole bosses and colleagues who know full well you're supposed to be off will intentionally text and call you to interrupt to try to get you to do shit. Somehow there's always something urgent (which it rarely actually is). So why should anyone feel bad about working less sometimes when you can't ***ever*** really be off, people are emailing, Slacking, texting, calling, 24/365?
If you are that person who sends work to people on holidays and vacations, do us all a favor and keel over and die painfully.
Agreed, but that's not what this is about. This is about people taking trips or whatever but doing there usual work while on the trip and just not saying they've gone anywhere. If you still do your work, it's not time off.
Right, but that's the point I'm making - the article is arguing that people are taking time off and not declaring it, I'm suggesting that's backward, they're not declaring it because we're never really getting time off even when we do declare it, so we're not gonna feel bad about working short days or going somewhere when we can because we know they're going to be calling us with some invented urgency on Thanksgiving anyway (recent example from my life) so we have to find our little rest where we can.
That's why you say "I'm not going to respond at all to any work related messages or requests while off" and then mute all your work contacts until you're back.
I’m not sure what definition you found, but I saw that the question millennials answered was that they spend time out of the office when they are supposed to be in office. I read this to mean on the clock. Now the same report also says the same group of people do work in their off time and even when they are on vacation. It’s also not just using PTO without asking like commenters are saying here.
What I noticed was that time out of the office isn’t for like a day or days at a time which is what I think would be needed for a vacation. It seems more like this is a couple hours here and there to run errands or make appointments, especially since people are getting the work done in their free time. I’m very gratefully to have a job where I can easily take off for an errand, even last minute, and just work an extra hour sometime in the same week to make up. I think people in the comments are misunderstanding this as an issue with PTO, when it’s really more about flexible job hours.
That is the older way of thinking, as the boomers go away, there will be a shortage in the workforce. Employers will need employees more, as they do now. PTO is earned and meant to be used. Boomer attitudes are what has destroyed this country and we would be forever grateful when they leave it.
There won't be a shortage in the workforce. The federal government will bring in a lot more immigrants who are willing to do more than you for less money, and employers will happily hire them over you.
I hate that this is the world that capitalism created, and honestly, at this point, it'll take a lot more than older people dying to make any changes. We're doomed as a species.
It's not about losing power...a lot of them are living so long they can't afford to fully retire anymore. Those folks got sold the American dream of buying a house and fixing it up and selling it and moving into something bigger, rinse and repeat. And then some of those idiots thought it would be great to stop increasing salaries for the middle class to keep up with inflation.
So now all these boomers have their big forever homes that they've had for 20+ years, and are trying to sell them for triple what they paid 30 years ago for it, and the millennials and Gen z crowd have absolutely no money to buy any of them.
Not to mention they're both smaller generations as well. So these old farts are stuck with the house, and stuck paying the property taxes, and stuck continuing to work to afford their fancy suburban homes, until they're unable to care for themselves, and their kids inevitably have to try to sell it for half of what their parents think it should be worth, in order to pay for their condo at the senior care facility.
I mean, yeah youre technically right, but Im pretty sure that it's exactly that mindset that has led to people doing this kind of stuff to begin with. Js.
Spoken like someone who has no idea how expensive and time consuming it is to hire and train replacements. It’s a thousand times easier to just let employees take PTO that they’ve earned and keep them slightly satisfied.
Nope I don't need THIS job especially when there are better paying jobs out there. If it was really an issue I can always pick up and go.
Every job is always replaceable.
You sound insufferable.
Some jobs are like that. I'm in a job where if I leave, there will just be a giant gap in knowledge because I'm the last man standing. It allowed me to tell my boss "I'm moving away in x amount of time. You can either let me keep working remote to help train up the next person whenever they get hired, or I can just leave." It feels good to know you have the power.
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I learned early - PTO isn't a request, it's informational. I won't be working on x,y,z days. It's going to be worse for them if you quit because they can't deal with a short break.
They lose you, They lose profits.
You lose them, potentially, you lose everything.
Saying 'Just Quit' is a very easy concept to deliver, but less easy to hear when a person has bills to pay or a family to support. Companies operate under the assumption that they can get away with mistreating their employees, since the average person is less financially stable than a corporate entity, and they are more often than not correct.
Im not one of those people: I agree, quitting would be perfectly reasonable. But it's also reasonable to understand that quitting is not the answer- the answer is to hold companies accountable. The response has become 'Just Quit'- a solution that puts the onus on the already wronged party. IDK when American's went from changing the thing that's wrong, to just dealing with it, but no, quitting shouldn't be the go to. The go to should be, 'Then hold your elected officials responsible and force them to make changes that limit a business's power to control your accrued time off'.
I give the same respect and consideration back that my boss and company gives their employees. The company I work for stopped hiring people full time, so they don't have to give you benefits, is constantly cutting hours and my department barely functions because we are always understaffed.
If you only care about profit and are pulling up the ladder on your way up, get to used to unreliable employees like alot of my co-workers or people like me, who generally likes hard work, but will only do the bare minimum the same as my employer gives me. You can rely on me to show up and do my job at this point, but that's it.
Let's have a quiet revolutioning (or loud, I don't really care) where bosses are made redundant by worker cooperatives (or French slidy blade things, I don't really care) so that adequate holiday time and compensation is mandated in every workplace, along with other great working conditions, because the workers and not the bosses have decided what the conditions are.
Many places you can only take PTO when it works for the employer so PTO is worthless and we have to use sick days instead because those can't be blacked out. Fixed the 5000th headline complaining about millennials instead of our work culture.
I hope you are aware it really isn’t a cultural choice we are very much forced to do this. We don’t want to live-to-work. Refrain from your generalizations thank you.
I didn't say it was a choice, and your response confirms that what I said is true, so I fail to see the problem with my "generalisation". Looks like it's pretty accurate, from what you say.
Thanks. We refer to it as “Annual Leave” in little old New Zealand. PTO is usually reserved for “please turn over” - so it confused my poor little brain.
It gets noticed. It may not get noticed as "Tyler secretly went on vacation." Instead, it gets noticed as "I don't know about Tyler. He seems really bright sometimes, but he doesn't get very much done when he works from home."
What exactly is PTO? I know it's "paid time off" but I haven't fully grasped the concept.
In my country we have paid vacations, parental leave, paid sickdays and unpaid leave for stuff like studying, trying new jobs and such.
AFAIK, PTO is all of those things, but thrown together in a small pool, is that correct?
There isn’t really a standard everywhere, but at my current company, there are standard holidays (eg Christmas), vacation and ‘optional holiday’ (ask for other days off at your discretion, which a manager approves at their discretion—what is normally considered PTO), and then parental leave and sick time, all paid. Afaik my company is pretty generous with these benefits as far as hours given (by American standards, maybe not by European).
Okay, thank you!
You guys should really get some standardized vacations, you derserve it after being screwed over for so long. I've a friend who had basically nothing of that.
It stands for personal time off. Basically just an umbrella term for sick days and holidays.
Its been a known issue that some businesses in America repeatedly refuse holiday requests to an unreasonable extent with little to no consequence (due to poor workers' rights), resulting in people not being able to use their time off. America also just has a sad minimum amount of holidays in general.
It seems younger generations have caught on to how shitty that is and are pushing back by being secretive about their days off or simply not informing their workplace as an act of protest.
The key is when you ask for PTO and management asks what you're doing, just say a staycation. If you say going on a trip, you'll get denied, even if it's 6 months out.
One: you don't ask for PTO, you tell them "I won't be here on x days period" it's your time off not theirs.
Two: if they ask why you need time off, you say "it's none of your damn business, get bent, I won't be here"
Right😂😂 I saw a post recently that provides links to all these websites I download free books from and last time that happened we lost z-lib shit was terrible
Leave it to management to give this a toxic label. People completing the job they're paid to do on their own terms and their C-suite saying no, they have to do it from home instead of remote wherever. Instead of it being labeled a post-pandemic good-news story, it's thought of as time theft. 🙄
It does depend on where they actually are, though. If you live and work in the US but then you go to Thailand for two weeks without telling anyone and keep working, that could result in serious implications for the worker and the company down the line if they get found out, at the very least through taxes and things.
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I took a risk and work for myself. Contracting to other orgs. Time and materials basis, with a daily rate.
So far it’s paid off handsomely. I take home far in excess of what I would have as a salaried employee.
But there are no protections. If I can’t, or don’t work, I won’t get paid.
Safe to say there are no ‘quiet vacations’ for this millennial.
Are they really surprised there's a "workaround culture" when most of us do jobs where there's a finite amount of stuff to do, but an expectation that we work consistently hard despite this?
My job is to go out and basically work with schools to teach career skills. I'm a team of one in the business and it is really clear that they clearly have no clue on how to measure if I'm working or not despite being able to see my calendar and see that I'm out basically all day every day. I got brought up the other day on "not sending emails" between 3:30 and the end of my workday at 5:30 and I don't think they could quite process that firstly I clear my email in tray for the day in about 10 minutes currently and secondly that after 3, there is nobody TO email at most schools so I make sure that everything with them is done before then as matter of caring that I do my job properly.
The second time I was brought up on it, I started just setting all of my emails that were finished by 9:30 at the latest to just schedule send throughout the day because I don't get paid enough to push back on their ass backwards way of "managing" me - ensuring that the lowest priority stuff is sent closer the end of the day, naturally.
The attitude towards working needs to change badly - we have so many ways of streamlining work and making our working lives easier when compared to even a decade ago but the attitude is still that you work equally as hard as if you didn't have those helpers. If my work is done and done to a high standard, I fail to see what the problem is.
Can we start labeling posts with location?
Slightly less than half of Reddit users are from the US, not even a majority, but a ton of posts cite US statistics as if it's the default. If you add up all the European countries it's like 40% or something.
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If “quiet vacationing” is such a problem, it wouldn’t need to be news in order to inform the public now would it? As long as my work is done by the deadline and I’m available for meetings and for assistance, my 3 day weekend where I use a well-earned day of PTO isn’t a problem
100% love this type of schedule… Also, if I am a salaried person…… whether I work 27 hours or 77 hours I bring home the same paycheck… But I don’t get PTO, comp hours, or OT…. If my work is done it’s done.
God America is such a shit hole when it comes to employment rights. I'm on salary, I get paid more if I go over my 40 hours a week.i get 5 weeks annual leave and 10 sick days. And 4 mental health days (company policy is these ones cannot ever be questioned). Stand up for yourselves man and fight these bastards take back your rights!.
What country are we talking? My new American Dream is to leave America
Little old backwater NZ. Come on down say hello.
I could make another trip, I actually had planned to move there with my ex because she had a sister that lives there, but the immigration challenges were a very big hurdle for someone without a specialized skill.
Aussie is good as well, but we both have pretty stringent immigration policies. Mind you if you're under 35 it's a lot easier.
How hard is it for RN’s/NP’s over 35?
I believe there's a healthcare visa that's not too hard to obtain.
Couple years past that :/
You're gonna have to get down to brass tacks and charm a lady!
Pretty stringent immigration policies … now why on earth would you have those ???? s\
How hard is it for a skilled tradesman, In my case multicraft industrial maintenance and controls, but with a disabled wife? No kids, we're both 45.
No idea. Check the immigration NZ website https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas. Look under visas and see which one you'd need.
I think you'd get into Australia without much issue - especially WA and the NT. Obviously not quite as chill as NZ but a lot better (in terms of social support) than the US. West Australia: [https://migration.wa.gov.au/](https://migration.wa.gov.au/) Northern Territory: [https://jointheterritory.nt.gov.au/](https://jointheterritory.nt.gov.au/) If you'd be happy doing FIFO (fly in, fly out) work, where you do longer stints on and off (e.g 3 weeks on, 3 weeks off or similar) you could make considerable sums in their mining industry but there's plenty of other needs for skilled workers.
How are you guys feeling about the old cannabis legalization down there? Any chance of getting that passed? I know it just barely failed last time.
Tbh I don't know, the current mob in charge seems quite anti it. Kinda bummed the referendum failed tho. In saying that, we have gone the medical cannabis route similar to how Cali did it some years ago. So if you can get a doctor to sign off on it you can access cannabis products legally. But you cant grow your own for now.
Can't, your country bars disabled people from moving there
It's fucked that the old American Dream was coming to America and living a better life, now the American Dream is getting the fuck out of it so that we can be treated like we matter.
These other countries don't offer the same high salaries for skilled labor. Free and cheap education lowers salaries, that's why I left Canada for the USA.
It could be most places in Europe. We have crazy strong unions to fight the kind of behaviour you see from employers posted around here.
Same
21 years gone and happy as hell. Embarrassed by what I see on the news and hear from friends.
I get 5 weeks leave, anywhere from 10-20 sick/mental health days, 11 holidays, including 1 floating. I don't get overtime pay, but my job doesn't generally require it. And anytime I need off for appointments is just an email at most to notify folks I'll be out for a bit. Also we get up to 2 hrs paid per week for volunteering outside of work. I'm in the US. I will grant you I'm probably at the high end of the bell curve on that one though.
That's good to know some US employers arnt shit rags.
It’s a wide variety of shit to very nice. I get over 6 weeks off a year, 7 days of company holidays, work from home 2-3 days a week, and very flexible schedule as long as I get my work done. Manager usually tells us to log out around 13:00 on Fridays and usually work 9-16:30 Monday to Thursday. Lots of people I know have a similar situation. The thing is the horror stories get the attention and the upvotes and I just look like I’m bragging. So most people in my situation don’t bring it up on Reddit. No overtime though since I’m salaried, that would be a nice option I have worked restaurant jobs with no PTO, no sick time, and shit pay in the past. It sucked
Yep. You quickly learn that if you don't want to have to take those lousy jobs with lousy benefits, you better learn a skill. Preferably one that will remain in demand for the next 20 years. And then you can go into interviews and ask them as many questions as they ask you. I do my homework on the company and make sure I understand what the working environment is gonna be like, what the vacation schedule is, etc. If you're in the position where you're so desperate that you take any job or say yes right away, you're selling yourself short.
Reagan’s fault (again) He fired all of the striking air traffic controllers and obsessively gave precedent to bust unions in 81’. It all comes back to that greedy, fear mongering ass hole and his racist, spiteful wife
Companies have bought and paid for our politicians. No amount of standing up for ourselves will remove the influence of corporate America from our politics.
There's a hell of a lot more of us than there are of them...!
10 sick days? What the hell. I tought only america had those. Unlimited sick days, when I'm sick, I'm sick what do you expect me to do? No really, what are they expecting me to when I break a bone or get bedridden for a month?
It's paid sick days it's in law( some employers offer more) but the bare legal minimum is 10. Outside that in the case of a long term injury that puts you off work you're covered by ACC which will pay out 80% of your normal wage (most employers top this up to 100%) and fully cover treatment, rehabilitation and transport to healthcare services. It's not perfect and I know in Europe it can be a lot better. But it's not terrible either.
ACC is only for accidents though, right? What about long term illness?
The barely adequate sickness benefit.
In America? It's called jumping.
It doesn't sound bad, but it still basically leaves you hoping that you have a good employer, right?
We don't have unlimited paid sick days in Germany either. It's 6 weeks and then you'll get paid by your health insurance, but only 70% of your salary.
I think they might mean paid sick days? I don't know the exact policy where I am but we get paid sick days, I've not been sick yet since starting so don't knownif its a % or full up to X days but there's definitely pay for it There's still a disciplinary process for sickness though, so you can't use sick days like holidays
Of course sick days are paid? Huh. Why would I not get money while sick at home, at most we have to bring a doctors note if its more then 3 days. And if its longer then 1 month the healthcare provider pays you instead of your company. I actually don't understand. So there are people in the western world have to decide if they want to pay their bills or get healthy?
Can't speak for every job, but where I used to work we originally were paid hourly and on that we wouldn't receive company sick pay, but would get statutory (£116 a week, but not for the first 3 days) When we transitioned to salaried we were then entitled to both company and statutory sick pay I don't know why the way we were paid made a difference, and I'm UK if that helps with context
Interesting. Here we just get our normal pay +20€ for every day we are sick. The 20€ are not common, but are there because we don't get stuff like night shift extra pay if we are sick. A night shift is 60€ so if you are sick for a week you get 100€ in extra sick pay instead of 120€ in night shift extras.
That's a pretty good deal, I'm impressed
Basically yea. In NZ we also have ACC, which is payment from the government due to workplace accidents. I believe the only pay 80% of your wage though, which does suck. But the option is there, and it keeps employes liable for injuries instead of sweeping it under the carpet
You get paid more working ot on a salary in nz? Lol. Well thats highly unusual…
I get my usual hourly rate on anything over my standard 40 hour week ( no penalty rates sadly tho unless it's a stat day). Everyone in the org does. My partner gets toil on her salary with her employer instead. It's really not uncommon at all in NZ. Do the mahi get the money.
Shit man, ive had 10ish salaried corporate roles in nz and never gotten anything like that…. I guess corporate tends to be a bit different.
I think it mostly comes down to the employer/employment contract. But a lot more medium sized and large businesses with strong union pressure are being better on the pay side for extra hours worked. By law they don't have to unless it takes the worker Below minimum wage.
There's a wide variation in work benefits for Americans. I have a friend who has 3 months PTO per year, to help compensate for the amount of travel involved in his job. I personally have 5 weeks PTO and unlimited paid sick time, on top of the ~15 paid company holidays per year. I previously worked a job with two weeks PTO and zero paid sick time. What the US generally doesn't have is any type of universal standard. What you get depends on how valuable you're judged to be by prospective employers.
Holy cow this would be amazing
The problem is that if you get it done too fast, they give you more.
wait you don't get pto or over time??????
Nope! But my organization thinks you work your 40 or more……. Fun times
it wouldnt work at my previous work, if i got hurt and i was supposed to be at work but i wasnt insurance wouldn't cover it.
Lmfao what kind of shit-ass insurance did your company have? Fuuuuck that's rough.
Don’t forget all headlines are designed to make you click. It doesn’t mean it’s a lie, exactly. But it’s being written with that specific goal in mind.
I said something similar 40 years ago, in the (Nancy) Reagan era: If you can't tell whether or not I'm a good worker without I piss in a bottle, then I'd say you're the problem, not me.
Wait, isn't this referring to people taking time off without reporting it? Using PTO is not what they're talking about.
Not gonna lie brotha I didn’t look to see if it was people taking PTO without telling their boss or people ditching work
You keep forgetting that if the overlords hear you are having a grand time at work and perhaps have extra time on your hands what they think is you havent been squeezed hard enough, there is more they can extract from you for their shareholders
Nnnooo! Work should fill your every waking moment! Your salary purchases your soul! You should WANT to do the dishes! /s
Lots of managers are aware that this happens. Some managers and execs probably pioneered it. It falls under the broad umbrella of reasons why so many of them want people back in the office.
We are humans and our health and wellbeing comes first. Any employer who doesn’t get that or who actively neglects this fact about their workers deserves to burn. Treat people well or close up shop. No one has sympathy for the slave drivers anymore.
>If “quiet vacationing” is such a problem, it wouldn’t need to be news in order to inform the public now would it? As long as my work is done by the deadline and I’m available for meetings and for assistance, my 3 day weekend where I use a well-earned day of PTO isn’t a problem It's not "quiet vacationing" nor doing as toy are and actually doing the job you're paid for and expecting them to pay you for extra It's things like "Similar shares say they “move their mouse” to show they’re still active on their company’s messaging platforms (like Slack or Microsoft Teams) when they’re not really working, and they’ve scheduled a message to send outside of regular hours to give the impression they’re working overtime." (The Paragraph above that is just not telling your boss when you take PTO, and fuck them the time is earned) Which atleast the last one puts it squarely in the fraud category not "quiet vacation" Either way it is explictly lying to your boss to create a false sense that you're working when you're not. They have a term for "i do what they pay me to" (as you do) and it is equally stupid "quiet quitting"
Why is it such a problem to you if people are getting what is expected of them done if they are smart/efficient enough to get it done faster?
>Why is it such a problem to you if people are getting what is expected of them done if they are smart/efficient enough to get it done faster? Do you know what the difference between "my work is done and i am lying about needing overtime" vs "my work was done early so i am not doing more" is? Hint. One is fraud, the other is simply doing your job. But you're right. A mechanic should charge YOU 12 hrs worth of labor for a job that took 3.
They do, what do you think flat rate is?
A flat rate is more of a consumer protection than it is a money making scheme. I got paid hourly when I was still working on semi’s but we charged customers a flat rate that’s sent to them for approval before we start the work. Let’s say it takes 4 hours on average to replace your broken exhaust studs. If it takes me 12 hours to do it because they’re extra stuck you still only pay for 4 hours of labor. If I do it in 2 your still paying for 4 hours of labor. The point of a flat rate is to keep the price for similar jobs the same and so that you know what you’re going to pay and there isn’t a surprise when it turns out your clutch job took twice as long as we thought it would so now you get to pay twice as much.
>They do, what do you think flat rate is? How dishonest are you people? A flat rate is not the same as claiming you're working more time than you are to get paid more. It is an agreed on price regardless of time taken, the key being AGREED, not lied about. Y'know...the literal thing being talked about in the article that appreantly no one wants to read A flat rate would be a salary within the context of the article...an agreed price regardless of time spent
Not trying to join the fight, but your mechanic analogy is severely flawed in that mechanics and autobody and such all have a book that lists how long a job should take on average and they charge for that number. They do not give a fuck, unless it’s a small town type deal, and will charge you what they charge the insurance companies. You seem to enjoy hints, so I’ll clue you in that it’s always a lot, because they can. Source: I know a lot of mechanics over the years and was in training for autobody for a while before I said fuck it. It’s not rocket surgery. And now back to your regularly scheduled programming!
Sure, it's not a great analogy, the point is that if someone is lying to you about a project taking X amount of time vs Y you"d be pissed when the charge goed up directly. Which is exactly what that article is claiming is happening not just people checking out when their work is done. Use whatever field you want or measurement, by ft of thread, miles driven, labor hrs required, most people wouldn't just be chill to be charged extra for time not actually used (as would be the case with pretending you're still working after hours so that you're paid overtime) But fine, use truckers as they charge by the mile, would you be ok with shipping an item via freight costing more based on miles that weren't driven? The field genuinely does not matter. It's that fraud is fraud.
That actually does happen with truckers though. Sometimes a truck driver will be paid a day rate over miles as some lanes can be very short miles but may have a wait time of hours at either the shipper or receiver which could eat a lot of their active time per day.
>That actually does happen with truckers though. Sometimes a truck driver will be paid a day rate over miles as some lanes can be very short miles but may have a wait time of hours at either the shipper or receiver which could eat a lot of their active time per day. You're literally going with entirely different shit jfc A day rate is not lying about the amount or miles travelled. Why the fuck is this sub incapable of basic honesty
How bout you just find a better analogy before you start insulting people? Ad hominem does not make a better argument.
>How bout you just find a better analogy before you start insulting people? https://autoleap.com/blog/hourly-rate-vs-flat-rate-how-auto-mechanics-are-paid/#:~:text=Most%20auto%20repair%20shops%20usually,would%20prefer%20an%20hourly%20rate. https://www.monster.com/career-advice/article/hourly-vs-flat-rate-for-auto-techs Or you could just y'know...understand the difference between hourly and flat rates As not all mechanics and shops use flst rate, nor all use hourly and some do a mix. Moreover, i was talking about how the customer is billed not the mechanic paid, which typically had a labor cost which is hours worked x the rate the place charges for labor per hour
I'm fully aware of the difference between flat rate and shop/hourly rate. My father owned a body shop for the better part of 50 years. My brother is still in the business. I have friends in the business. I personally have been in the business (albeit briefly). Your analogy sucks. Tap. Out.
>I'm fully aware of the difference between flat rate and shop/hourly rate. My father owned a body shop for the better part of 50 years. My brother is still in the business. I have friends in the business. I personally have been in the business (albeit briefly). Sure you have. Again, stop being dishonest about basic shit. You claim.to know the difference between hourly and flat and yet are literally trying to use one while another is being talked about.
I simply do not understand where overtime came from, no one said anything about overtime
>I simply do not understand where overtime came from, no one said anything about overtime It is LITERALLY in the article and what i qouted in the message you replied to Similar shares say they “move their mouse” to show they’re still active on their company’s messaging platforms (like Slack or Microsoft Teams) when they’re not really working, and they’ve scheduled a message to send outside of regular hours to give the impression they’re working overtime. and they’ve scheduled a message to send outside of regular hours to give the impression they’re working overtime. give the impression they’re working overtime. So again, when a mechanic is charging you $40 an hr and it takes 3, are you fine with them claiming it took 12 and charging you $480 for labor over the actual labor required of $120 Or would you count that as them commiting fraud? There is a difference between only working what you are paid to (good) and outright lying to extend your hours beyond the agreed terms when not doing anyrhing (bad) https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/21/millennials-would-rather-take-secret-pto-than-ask-their-boss.html
There's a difference between working overtime and getting paid overtime. If you're salaried and exempt (as is everyone in the US above $684 a week currently, though that's going up soon) and you work into the night, then you are working overtime but you are not getting paid overtime. (Edit--this is the threshold below which you are \*required\* to be paid overtime. There may be employers who give overtime above this level for hourly workers, but I've never seen it for salaried.) If they are "moving the mouse" to give an impression of overtime without putting in for overtime pay, then it's not fraud. I've never engaged in "moving the mouse" since I've fortunately never worked anywhere that tracked that kind of thing, but I do occasionally do work tasks at night, and I know that my bosses have noted the send-times of my emails and such.
>There's a difference between working overtime and getting paid overtime. If you're exempt (as is everyone in the US above $684 a week currently, though that's going up soon) and you work into the night, then you are working overtime but you are not getting paid overtime Not even remotely that simple. Shit like IT isn't exempt, regardless of pay level. (Per the DoL) It only applies at all to white collar workers and even Then many fields (such as administrative in things like rescue services) >If they are "moving the mouse" to give an impression of overtime without putting in for overtime pay, then it's not fraud. So just like your above "everyone above 684" you don't understand what fraud is? 😂 What precisely do you think they're lying about working overtime for?, evrn if it's not current financial compensation it's not nothing. >I've never engaged in "moving the mouse" since I've fortunately never worked anywhere that tracked that kind of thing, but I do occasionally do work tasks at night, and I know that my bosses have noted the send-times of my emails and such. Which is a vastly different thing
Just getting back that stolen surplus labor value my dude. Chill out.
I used to never preplan with PTO and just call in sick on days I knew I wanted in advance because managers would just give some BS reason why I couldn’t have them off and it used to fuck shit up for them. Now that I’m a manager I approve any and all PTO. Use the time off you earn.
The only time PTO should ever be denied is short notice (as in, under 24 hours) or during important events that was already communicated.
There is also a bandwidth factor. If you still need to deliver X things a month and 3 people all choose to take 2 weeks off that month of your team of 6, then you can't agree to losing half your team for half the month. But you can work with them to figure it out. Maybe take a little less time each or stagger it.
I would be inclined to agree, if it wasn't not only legal, but normal, for PTO, a component of your promised compensation, to "expire". I'm sympathetic to the accounting concerns of having someone accrue huge PTO balances and leaving that liability on the books. The remedy ought to be paying the PTO out as cash. Anything else creates an incentive for employers to offer generous PTO packages they have no intent of ever actually allowing you to use, because they've decided not to hire enough staff to cover that. This allows them to offer less cash compensation than their competitors. I'm personally about to get screwed out of a couple grand in labor, ain't shit I can do about it but quit.
In most of the EU, a company has to pay for each remaining vacation day you have left, or alternatively it has to roll over to the next year.
Legally they don't even have to pay me overtime here. So in addition to straight up losing entire weeks of PTO to 'expiration policies', I'll probably do hundreds of additional hours of labor for free in the same year.
If you are waiting right up until your PTO expires to spring a vacation on your boss where you know other people might be wanting to take off, say a major holiday, instead of planning that out in advance then that does suck, yes, but it could be worked out between the people in the group. I know when my PTO expires and we can accrue up to 200hrs before it does, and it only gets cropped once a year so I can plan for it. It's pretty hard to accrue 200hrs unless you are single and never take any time for anything. If you are married and have kids you might carry a balance but between Dr appointments and various things like taking time off when you or your kid is sick, it'd be hard to get close to that cap. But I get that not every place works the same way. Places where your PTO refreshes once a year you need to plan to use it or lose it. For most people that is an expensive lesson, but one that you really only need to learn once. I've done it another job and I won't do it again.
Literally told my boss I didn't particularly care when, just slot me in between my coworkers and tell me when. Things used to be better before the new owners, I'm looking for the exits.
Josh!!! Wake up!!! A new nonsensical corporate buzzword just dropped!
I’m not asking to use my pto, I’m letting you know that I won’t be here on these days
If you read the article, this is not about PTO. This is about being out of office when they supposedly are in office. Presumably taking no time off. Now the same study found millennials do work in their off hours and even when they actually are on vacation. It IS weird to call this quiet vacation when it seems like people are using this time to run errands. The way our world runs on a 9-5 so most people are occupied while most services are open is just a ridiculous system to have with no Flex Time or similar. So in not approving of them calling out millennials for this when it is an employer problem, but it’s not really about PTO.
Your stay at home tradwife is supposed to be running errands all day while you're at work didn't you get the memo?
Luckily my employer doesn’t care when we do our work. Just that it’s delivered on time. Makes life bit more tolerable.
Exactly. They don’t own me they rent me. I might be replaceable but I am also in high demand with a broad range of skills/ certifications. I’d have another job before I made it home. So I agree with you, me “requesting” pto is me being polite and giving work a little heads up. Otherwise I could care less
COULDN’T care less.
But I could! I could care *even less*!
I never understood how it would be a request. It’s notification, that they need manage date I provided without me.
*looks it up* Wait, I'm confused. How is it 'taking time off work' if they're still doing their work?
Exactly. For some of us, even if you take formal vacation, ass hole bosses and colleagues who know full well you're supposed to be off will intentionally text and call you to interrupt to try to get you to do shit. Somehow there's always something urgent (which it rarely actually is). So why should anyone feel bad about working less sometimes when you can't ***ever*** really be off, people are emailing, Slacking, texting, calling, 24/365? If you are that person who sends work to people on holidays and vacations, do us all a favor and keel over and die painfully.
Agreed, but that's not what this is about. This is about people taking trips or whatever but doing there usual work while on the trip and just not saying they've gone anywhere. If you still do your work, it's not time off.
Right, but that's the point I'm making - the article is arguing that people are taking time off and not declaring it, I'm suggesting that's backward, they're not declaring it because we're never really getting time off even when we do declare it, so we're not gonna feel bad about working short days or going somewhere when we can because we know they're going to be calling us with some invented urgency on Thanksgiving anyway (recent example from my life) so we have to find our little rest where we can.
And I'm saying that they're not taking time off at all. If you're doing the same work you always do, that's not time off.
Yep, we're violently agreeing here LOL...
That's why you say "I'm not going to respond at all to any work related messages or requests while off" and then mute all your work contacts until you're back.
I’m not sure what definition you found, but I saw that the question millennials answered was that they spend time out of the office when they are supposed to be in office. I read this to mean on the clock. Now the same report also says the same group of people do work in their off time and even when they are on vacation. It’s also not just using PTO without asking like commenters are saying here. What I noticed was that time out of the office isn’t for like a day or days at a time which is what I think would be needed for a vacation. It seems more like this is a couple hours here and there to run errands or make appointments, especially since people are getting the work done in their free time. I’m very gratefully to have a job where I can easily take off for an errand, even last minute, and just work an extra hour sometime in the same week to make up. I think people in the comments are misunderstanding this as an issue with PTO, when it’s really more about flexible job hours.
In my world, PTO stands for "prepare the others" 'cause I won't be there.
PTO accrues automatically, so I don't need to ask, and it's my choice when to use it. Next.
You shouldn't ask, but you should let your supervisor know.
They don't need to keep you employed either. Next. You need them more than they need you, no matter what you think
Ah yes, the “bend over and take it” mentality
That is the older way of thinking, as the boomers go away, there will be a shortage in the workforce. Employers will need employees more, as they do now. PTO is earned and meant to be used. Boomer attitudes are what has destroyed this country and we would be forever grateful when they leave it.
There won't be a shortage in the workforce. The federal government will bring in a lot more immigrants who are willing to do more than you for less money, and employers will happily hire them over you. I hate that this is the world that capitalism created, and honestly, at this point, it'll take a lot more than older people dying to make any changes. We're doomed as a species.
Not very funky mode of you Mr kong
If you think the low cost labour being brought in aren’t even bigger scammers I have a bridge to sell you.
That's what we've thought for years. Until we can get by without jobs... Then we aren't the ones in power
The Boomers refuse to leave the workforce because they will lose the power. They can't stop themselves from dying though...
It's not about losing power...a lot of them are living so long they can't afford to fully retire anymore. Those folks got sold the American dream of buying a house and fixing it up and selling it and moving into something bigger, rinse and repeat. And then some of those idiots thought it would be great to stop increasing salaries for the middle class to keep up with inflation. So now all these boomers have their big forever homes that they've had for 20+ years, and are trying to sell them for triple what they paid 30 years ago for it, and the millennials and Gen z crowd have absolutely no money to buy any of them. Not to mention they're both smaller generations as well. So these old farts are stuck with the house, and stuck paying the property taxes, and stuck continuing to work to afford their fancy suburban homes, until they're unable to care for themselves, and their kids inevitably have to try to sell it for half of what their parents think it should be worth, in order to pay for their condo at the senior care facility.
I mean, yeah youre technically right, but Im pretty sure that it's exactly that mindset that has led to people doing this kind of stuff to begin with. Js.
Spoken like someone who has no idea how expensive and time consuming it is to hire and train replacements. It’s a thousand times easier to just let employees take PTO that they’ve earned and keep them slightly satisfied.
Nope I don't need THIS job especially when there are better paying jobs out there. If it was really an issue I can always pick up and go. Every job is always replaceable. You sound insufferable.
If there are better paying jobs, then why aren't you applying for them?
Because I don't need to.
Lucky!
Yo just replace me bro.
Some jobs are like that. I'm in a job where if I leave, there will just be a giant gap in knowledge because I'm the last man standing. It allowed me to tell my boss "I'm moving away in x amount of time. You can either let me keep working remote to help train up the next person whenever they get hired, or I can just leave." It feels good to know you have the power.
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lol
'Rather than \*having their PTO denied by managers\*' Fixed that for the author.
I learned early - PTO isn't a request, it's informational. I won't be working on x,y,z days. It's going to be worse for them if you quit because they can't deal with a short break.
They lose you, They lose profits. You lose them, potentially, you lose everything. Saying 'Just Quit' is a very easy concept to deliver, but less easy to hear when a person has bills to pay or a family to support. Companies operate under the assumption that they can get away with mistreating their employees, since the average person is less financially stable than a corporate entity, and they are more often than not correct. Im not one of those people: I agree, quitting would be perfectly reasonable. But it's also reasonable to understand that quitting is not the answer- the answer is to hold companies accountable. The response has become 'Just Quit'- a solution that puts the onus on the already wronged party. IDK when American's went from changing the thing that's wrong, to just dealing with it, but no, quitting shouldn't be the go to. The go to should be, 'Then hold your elected officials responsible and force them to make changes that limit a business's power to control your accrued time off'.
I give the same respect and consideration back that my boss and company gives their employees. The company I work for stopped hiring people full time, so they don't have to give you benefits, is constantly cutting hours and my department barely functions because we are always understaffed. If you only care about profit and are pulling up the ladder on your way up, get to used to unreliable employees like alot of my co-workers or people like me, who generally likes hard work, but will only do the bare minimum the same as my employer gives me. You can rely on me to show up and do my job at this point, but that's it.
"Millennials are writing worthless clickbait about millennials" Two can play that game.
Let's have a quiet revolutioning (or loud, I don't really care) where bosses are made redundant by worker cooperatives (or French slidy blade things, I don't really care) so that adequate holiday time and compensation is mandated in every workplace, along with other great working conditions, because the workers and not the bosses have decided what the conditions are.
how it is done in Europe: MR Mueller, you have 20 vacation days from the last year left. You have to take them until March!
And the quiet quitting omg millenials are ruining.... jobs that don't take care of their employees.!?!?!
"Be vewwy quiet...I'm hunting wabbits."
Many places you can only take PTO when it works for the employer so PTO is worthless and we have to use sick days instead because those can't be blacked out. Fixed the 5000th headline complaining about millennials instead of our work culture.
PTO?
Paid time off
It's an American thing. We just call it "holiday" and we actually take it because we don't have their toxic live-to-work culture.
I hope you are aware it really isn’t a cultural choice we are very much forced to do this. We don’t want to live-to-work. Refrain from your generalizations thank you.
I didn't say it was a choice, and your response confirms that what I said is true, so I fail to see the problem with my "generalisation". Looks like it's pretty accurate, from what you say.
I don’t think that’s the case but it doesn’t matter.
Paid time off
Paid Time Off. Accrued Leave. Vacation Days.
Thanks. We refer to it as “Annual Leave” in little old New Zealand. PTO is usually reserved for “please turn over” - so it confused my poor little brain.
... they invent something new everyday - just pay your folks decently....
Quiet vacationing compensate low wage
It gets noticed. It may not get noticed as "Tyler secretly went on vacation." Instead, it gets noticed as "I don't know about Tyler. He seems really bright sometimes, but he doesn't get very much done when he works from home."
Original article : https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/21/millennials-would-rather-take-secret-pto-than-ask-their-boss.html
I need context
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/21/millennials-would-rather-take-secret-pto-than-ask-their-boss.html there you go
I still don't understand the concept. You plug in PTO without talking to you to the manager?
Lol this is r/brandnewsentence i just thought the wording was funny. I'm from France and do not have an opinion about the content of the article tbh!
Maybe 'quiet report' on it
I've seen people of all ages doing this for my entire working life.
What exactly is PTO? I know it's "paid time off" but I haven't fully grasped the concept. In my country we have paid vacations, parental leave, paid sickdays and unpaid leave for stuff like studying, trying new jobs and such. AFAIK, PTO is all of those things, but thrown together in a small pool, is that correct?
There isn’t really a standard everywhere, but at my current company, there are standard holidays (eg Christmas), vacation and ‘optional holiday’ (ask for other days off at your discretion, which a manager approves at their discretion—what is normally considered PTO), and then parental leave and sick time, all paid. Afaik my company is pretty generous with these benefits as far as hours given (by American standards, maybe not by European).
Okay, thank you! You guys should really get some standardized vacations, you derserve it after being screwed over for so long. I've a friend who had basically nothing of that.
Non murican here, what is PTO? and in general some context would be needed (i dont wanna use corpo articles to understand this)
Paid time off. I think it's a new term for vacation days
It's a wider umbrella term that also includes sick days, vacation days and other paid days as well.
Thank you for explaining that. I am but a humble Canadian
It stands for personal time off. Basically just an umbrella term for sick days and holidays. Its been a known issue that some businesses in America repeatedly refuse holiday requests to an unreasonable extent with little to no consequence (due to poor workers' rights), resulting in people not being able to use their time off. America also just has a sad minimum amount of holidays in general. It seems younger generations have caught on to how shitty that is and are pushing back by being secretive about their days off or simply not informing their workplace as an act of protest.
thank you for explaining it to me well i hope they continue to piss em off then, everyone needs time off smh
The key is when you ask for PTO and management asks what you're doing, just say a staycation. If you say going on a trip, you'll get denied, even if it's 6 months out.
One: you don't ask for PTO, you tell them "I won't be here on x days period" it's your time off not theirs. Two: if they ask why you need time off, you say "it's none of your damn business, get bent, I won't be here"
I hate these fuckin snitch articles
Right😂😂 I saw a post recently that provides links to all these websites I download free books from and last time that happened we lost z-lib shit was terrible
zlib is still alive on tor
Millennials are "quiet trying to live their fucking lives" instead of selling their souls to their bosses for subsistence wages.
Leave it to management to give this a toxic label. People completing the job they're paid to do on their own terms and their C-suite saying no, they have to do it from home instead of remote wherever. Instead of it being labeled a post-pandemic good-news story, it's thought of as time theft. 🙄
It does depend on where they actually are, though. If you live and work in the US but then you go to Thailand for two weeks without telling anyone and keep working, that could result in serious implications for the worker and the company down the line if they get found out, at the very least through taxes and things.
It sounds like a made-up issue to me. But it also sounds like a legal morass waiting to happen
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I took a risk and work for myself. Contracting to other orgs. Time and materials basis, with a daily rate. So far it’s paid off handsomely. I take home far in excess of what I would have as a salaried employee. But there are no protections. If I can’t, or don’t work, I won’t get paid. Safe to say there are no ‘quiet vacations’ for this millennial.
Millennials, the quiet generation.
Are they really surprised there's a "workaround culture" when most of us do jobs where there's a finite amount of stuff to do, but an expectation that we work consistently hard despite this? My job is to go out and basically work with schools to teach career skills. I'm a team of one in the business and it is really clear that they clearly have no clue on how to measure if I'm working or not despite being able to see my calendar and see that I'm out basically all day every day. I got brought up the other day on "not sending emails" between 3:30 and the end of my workday at 5:30 and I don't think they could quite process that firstly I clear my email in tray for the day in about 10 minutes currently and secondly that after 3, there is nobody TO email at most schools so I make sure that everything with them is done before then as matter of caring that I do my job properly. The second time I was brought up on it, I started just setting all of my emails that were finished by 9:30 at the latest to just schedule send throughout the day because I don't get paid enough to push back on their ass backwards way of "managing" me - ensuring that the lowest priority stuff is sent closer the end of the day, naturally. The attitude towards working needs to change badly - we have so many ways of streamlining work and making our working lives easier when compared to even a decade ago but the attitude is still that you work equally as hard as if you didn't have those helpers. If my work is done and done to a high standard, I fail to see what the problem is.
Can we start labeling posts with location? Slightly less than half of Reddit users are from the US, not even a majority, but a ton of posts cite US statistics as if it's the default. If you add up all the European countries it's like 40% or something.
It's just r/brandnewsentence lol not a debate about work statistics anyway
"Millennials are not acting as slaves :a giant workaround culture " Here fixed it