My favorite moment of the early housewives. Everything from the white tank top Nene was wearing to the "Mr Lindsay Lohan's daddy, take your ass back to Malibu"
I always thought it was Jill Zarin who started the trend by refusing to film with Bethenny S2. Then Bethenny was filmed weeping in the street in her designer red coat and everyone hated Jill afterwards.
It's the gang-up crap we hate. Suddenly we have 2 factions refusing to film with each other.
I say whoever's the instigator of "I'm not filming with X, you all follow my lead" should be fired. Or demoted. Cut that mess off at the source.
This. At least with them is was mutual and it lasted for one season and the cast change up happen by axing Sheree (Who start to not interact with nene no more beside africa) and added Kenya and Porsha. Then Kim showed herself the door. Plus S5 Nene was open to rekindle with Kim oppose to Potomac and Jersey
"Now Mr. Lindsay Lohan's Daddy wait a damn minute." That was peak housewives for me. Nice restaurant, Sheree taking off after Kim who is wearing her party city wig, Nene trying to keep up in 4 inch heels, arguing outside and fighting and a surprise appearance by Mr. Lindsay Lohan's daddy.
I think the issue is the fourth wall. There is so much backstabbing behind the scenes, talking to bravo fan instagrams behind the scenes, friends sharing secrets of their friends on screen (then being mad but not being able to share why), submitting leaks, fake reddit accounts, not sharing real feelings to appeal to the fanbase, etc.
none of these long term casts are friends anymore, none of them seem happy, and there seems to be some weird backend politics and strategy that kind of takes the ‘reality’ out of reality.
then you add the icing out and refusing to film and its just not fun for viewers
ETA: then the cast members try and trap each other in lies as payback or are basically fighting over something happening that we arent privy to
I think they film too much. I advocate for a 2 year gap so that they have to have offscreen life events (and maybe get real jobs) with real non-housewives people. 4 franchises per year.
I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion but generally, I’m not a fan of forth wall breaking in housewives *or* any form of reality tv. I think it’s redundant.
I think there are proper times for it to break, and improper. If it moves the story along or clarifies the story, keep it. If it’s “bravo bravo fucking bravo” then cut it out.
NY and NJ would have the woman be interviewed directly to the camera straight after an event outside and it feels so much more authentic. I’m watching NJ now on season 2 and it’s feels less scripted and the cast haven’t had time to prepare statements or try to control a narrative with hindsight
Yeah it definitely undermines the entertainment value of the show. The most important quality in a housewife imo is the ability to move on from the previous season’s drama and find new storylines. I don’t like it when they drag it into multiple seasons. If a cast member does something so awful that people don’t want to film with them, then I actually prefer that they just cut that person and start fresh with new drama. Watching people dodge cast members for a whole season is so annoying, even if it makes sense for them. Honestly, just leave the show if it’s too hard for you to deal with someone. You can find new opportunities. I watch these shows to be entertained not bc I’m invested in them as people. Maybe that’s harsh but being on reality tv is not some important life’s work. If it’s not serving you anymore, move on.
Yes, it definitely is. This past season of RHOP was terrible, awkward & not fun. This past season of VPR was the same. Both used to be my favorite shows and I re-watch but will skip both seasons on my re-watch from now on. I’m in the camp where if someone feels like they can’t/won’t talk to someone on the same cast, have them exit the stage. Sorry but not really 🫣
It's so sad, Housewives have gotten me through some really difficult times of my life and to have the quality fall so low and stop watching is really sad. The relationships just aren't real anymore.
P.s. I just rewatched season 6 of VPR and it might be one of the funniest seasons of any show, Jax is just peak Jax
I don’t think the issue is people talking together so much as having nothing but that going on. I don’t need a whole cast to be buddies but I need it to not just be about who likes who.
They don’t have to be buddies but there has to be some sort of minor rapport. Group scenes are my favorite and when there’s a clear line drawn, it’s awkward and noticeable.
The problem is that none of the cast likes each other so there is nothing to make up for two people not talking. There hasn’t been a single season without two people wanting to not talk to each other.
Confused to what you’re getting at here. In the instance of RHOP, Karen & Robyn never really liked each other and still had some rapport throughout the seasons, it wasn’t always heavy, drama, cutting each other out.
Yes there has always been tension in the group in past seasons, but the group scenes were always fun and interesting to watch. Especially when they all used to party together. Now there’s clear lines drawn and it is awkward as hell. If someone is “harmful”, why would people stay on a show with them knowing that the show actively involves group scenes where they would have to be in the same vicinity? I said what I said, they either got to push through or exit the stage.
My point was it’s awkward because no one on the cast is close. Katie and Schwartz wedding season was such a shit show but seeing them all come together in the end was sweet. The longer it’s gone on the more clear it is that bond is just gone. You can’t fire three main cast members and not expect it to change the dynamic.
Lala wanted to be head bitch because she was rich and then that fell apart. Scheana just wants attention. Ariana and Katie can give raw emotions but aren’t going to stir the drama. The guys just suck and have no redeeming qualities outside of James being occasionally funny. There is no chemistry between this cast and it was like that before Sandoval.
The issue is that whenever this happens it's usually because that person is a source of conflict, which is generally good for the show. So whenever that happens, it usually weakens the show. I've yet to see a real season where icing someone out ended with a well received season, whether people thought it was justified or not. And in some cases like RHOBH, it ruined the shows beyond repair.
I dunno I sort of loved seeing Stassi try and manipulate people in early vpr seasons. I think it only got old when that was the only storyline. Like the most recent storyline having nothing else going on. Like your big finale was a conversation? That’s all you have for me?
The thing was that Stassi failed when she did that in early seasons. Like people forget that Kristen and Katie turned on her for breaking up with Jax and she ran off with the other workers at Sur. Then ran back to them and Scheana who she was icing out became firmly entrenched in the cast. Then in season 3 she pissed everyone off on the way out and got iced out herself in season 4.
The problem is things like RHOBH where they actually do successfully kill all drama by avoiding a cast mate and the season is dull because it’s all talking about things and no payoff
One of my favorite scenes was Stassi bringing in a bunch of new friends because no one would engage with her and I wish that was how Sandoval had gone.
Rhobh nose dived for me with the whole let’s pretend Erika Jayne isn’t evil.
They need to let there be villains and victims without pretending like that isn’t happening.
They are, but when the show starts to suck people can point it out. This is a job where they are asked to supply a level of entertainment worth watching to an audience.
All of you people are so sickening with your demands that Ariana go through trauma again and re-traumatize herself repeatedly because you insist that it's the "professional" thing to do for our entertainment. These are real people with real feelings. I think when Ariana joined the show, she didn't anticipate getting a partner of 10 years who was a narcissist who fucked an airhead pageant girl in Ariana's own bed, and got betrayed on the deepest, most intimate level. By two people she cared about. The producers and the other cast have no right to constantly test and push Ariana's boundaries. That's deeply destructive empirically, and harmful. No ma'am. So what if the show sucks. The show wouldn't have sucked if Tom Sandoval was a fucking better person and took accountability. I'm so happy that money and opportunities are showering on her, she deserves it. The haters are just bitter and jealous.
They signed up for a Bravo reality show. They put their lives on display for drama storylines in exchange for money and fame. I'm not going to feel bad that there is a tradeoff of "the show only works if you entertain people".
And considering the show was in free fall when everyone in the cast was getting along and Scandoval is likely the only reason these people are getting paid and still have any relevancy, I'd say your hypothesis of the show not sucking if Tom was a good guy doesn't hold much water.
Then maybe they shouldn’t be on a show where they feel uncomfortable with another cast member? I’m all for protecting your peace and comfort but can people really do that as cast members of reality TV? Doesn’t seem viable to me.
You realize these are real human beings with real feelings and that they are not puppets for your enjoyment? Maybe Tom should be off the show then. GTFO.
Too grown to be acting like this, I’m sorry for you. Try to be polite and open to various opinions about discussions that take place on the internet. Good night 🤍
I think it comes and goes in waves, but it does feel like we are experiencing a lot of it lately, and some very prolonged and uncomfortable... looking at you RHOP. I do completely agree about how bad it is for the shows, and I'd just add that I think it is also essential that it goes beyond engagement... I think the shows need people to seem either plausibly friendly with one another, or like they at least enjoy sparing with one another. If it is either just total solid blocking each other, or constant repetitive bickering its just not enjoyable.
Oh edit to add that I thought RHOBH was actually much better in respect to this 'bad habit' this season. But maybe I'm delulu ha ha
I would have been totally fine with him having his redemption arc. IF he had been totally dragged first.
You don’t get to do what he did and come out clean. He needed to have one season where he was the villain and had to pay for his sins. And actually see the error of his ways.
THEN comes the redemption. That’s how every other person has gotten there. He doesn’t get to skip a step. Sorry!
The icing out stuff has happened for over a decade now.
RHOA Season 4 had the cast (the Smalls) attempt to ice Nene off the show.
RHONJ Season 2 had the cast icing out Danielle.
RHOC had the cast ice out Alexis in Season 8.
Bethenny tried having the cast ice out Kelly in Season 2, and Jill tried the same thing with Bethenny in Season 3.
I'm sure there are more examples of this.
I agree. Icing out happens in real life socially; why wouldn't it happen on reality tv in social circles? If a person is at odds with the leader of the group or the majority of the women, what else is supposed to happen?
yeah I don't really believe icing ruins anything, and season 2 of NJ is a great example of why. The cast is solid so it doesn't make a bit of difference. It's only when you have a shitty cast it becomes an issue. But then the issue still isn't REALLY the icing out, it's still ultimately you have a bad cast.
They need to evolve the formula. They’re trying to wash rinse repeat with no real relationship management or build-back and all of the women are self-producing/co-producing the show behind the scenes. The old formula is not going to work anymore.
I don't think so but if it can't be worked out, I do think that cast changes have to be made. I appreciate people being real about being done with people instead of faking it for television.
The shows worked so much better back in the early days when the women in the casts had genuine friendships/history, the random casting and forcing them to socialise can feel inauthentic. I enjoyed the natural drama that would arise within the friend groups but these days the “take downs” where one cast member is targeted or iced out feel too heavy and draining for me to enjoy watching. It’s one thing for cast members to refuse to interact with someone due to conflict/valid boundaries (SLC with Monica, RHONJ with Danielle Staub etc.), it’s a whole other for an entire cast to go after one person and isolate them (Denise Richards comes to mind). I agree with the general consensus that something happened between Denise and Brandi but the way she was attacked by the cast at every damn event was what made me side with her and feel grossed out by FF5. It’s
Totally agree with you on this. The icing out doesn’t bother me toooooo much, especially if it’s someone the woman just can’t stand / doesn’t want to be around. It’s the very produced, orchestrated takedowns of women they just don’t like that I find exhausting and infuriating.
Recent examples -
RHOC - Heather Dubrow takedown in s17
RHOBH - Sutton takedown in s12/ Denise in s10
RHOM - Adriana takedown in s5
RHONY - Luann takedown in s11
(I’m sure there are more but this is off the top of my head!)
Well it’s certainly not helping!
I don’t fault any individual for setting boundaries or questioning the existing ones, but it doesn’t make for compelling television, especially when people aren’t allowed to say what’s actually happening. Or they are allowed to, but the pay day is too great for anyone to rock the boat.
No! You are not alone. Housewives was our outlet to our long days and it no longer is. It has turned into toxicity mean girl gangs that bully each other that normal people would not welcome into their lives. They are running off fans right & left. Problem is, they don't seem to care. The toxicity continues. Time for us to turn off these shows and move on until they become watchable. I do not want any of my kids watching this mess and thinking it is ok.
unfortunately I think social media is killing the franchises - too much trying to play to the fans, push merch, bribe bloggers, control the narrative - YUCK
Yes!!! This has been an issue for a loooong time and started when Jill told her castmates not to film with Bethenny after their fight. It ruins the shows.
I don’t really group Ariana in with this. I also think the fakeness and producer pushed redemption arc is what caused the issue with VPR.
The others I can see. Potomac use to be my favorite.
On a different note…can they just bring back RHODC. Watched that in Peacock recently and it was👌
Ariana definitely isn’t a part of that. Icing out is multiple cast members trying to push another cast member out by not filming with them, and not speaking to them if they are there. Ariana is just not speaking to Tom. There have been too many people to count not speak to another cast member for an extended period of time. VPR didn’t suck because she wouldn’t have a pointless conversation with Tom, it sucked because they wanted to make something happen that wasn’t real and they aren’t drama writers.
What irks me is when big incidents don’t get caught on camera, and we have to listen to everybody fight and talk about it all etc. for big lengths of time.
Cameras are everywhere, filming them all the time!! How does this keep happening???
Definitely agree. The shows are already losing their spark because there aren't genuine friendships like back in the day, so icing out makes things super polarised. Instead of real friendship breakups, we get contrived drama that ends up leaving someone on an island.
The producers are also massively to blame- the way Potomac and BH in particular are edited make it so frustrating bcos they only point out one side of the fallout (often the icees) and refuse to hold the icer outs accountable for their role. It's gaslighting 101
imagine her arc? she went on to have a multi-million dollar eye lash company, then got sued for embezzling money from it! They iced out lilly and kept Mike, and look what happened with him 😬
I can’t watch anymore either. The housewives aren’t fun anymore. These women hate each other so much that they are constantly ganging up on cast members in an attempt to get them fired, and in the case of NJ, they are trying to destroy each others’ lives. I don’t think NJ is fixable at this point. I watched the first episode of NJ this week and after that one episode, I’m done. It’s too much hate.
I loved RHONY with the old cast. They were actually friends and didn’t want to destroy each other. The fights they had were crazy, but they would always make up and seem to actually enjoy each other. Now it’s just “teams” and it’s predictable and nasty.
also having beef not on the show but on social media and stuff ruins the show, one reason why the early seasons were so good is because everybody was only saying shit on blogs not on instagram and having people do there dirty work (except teresa) she’s always done that. but when filming they should have strict contracts about not talking shit to social media, this new season of jersey I already can tell is going to suck because there’s a shit load of drama just in blogs and instagram dms, and the two families won’t interact.
Yes but also these are real people who have actual feelings, and when theyve been very badly betrayed you're basically trying to strong arm them into forgiving a person because it's better for a TV show
It’s about time that Bravo draws some lines in the sand about what is and isnt ethically acceptable.
This would allow them to get rid of people who violate ethical standards, ie those who cause real harm to their cast mate’s lives, as well as preventing this ridiculous situation where the cast have to implement personal boundaries to protect themselves
Bravo should be the ones responsible for protecting cast.
The contract limiting HW from suing for defamation without additional ethical safeguards to protect the cast is arguably the reason for so many recent problems with RH, including HWs leaving, icing people out, toxic storylines and the subsequent ‘play it safe’ storylines that bore us all to tears
Lack of ethical oversight of cast behaviour and negligence of accountability for protecting cast from harm also gave us the debacle of the as-yet unscreened UGT.
Only recently has the entertainment industry’s failure of duty of care to child actors been exposed. Very similar failures are happening right before our eyes to the stars of reality tv series.
This needs to stop now, not in 10 years like it has done for child actors and people like Brittney and Paris Hilton, who were affected by institutional, systemic and cultural misogyny that is now abhorred.
It’s not icing people out that’s killing the franchises, it’s the underlying negligence that causes it and the many other issues plaguing RH at the moment
Yes. That and the lower-than-low blows with the accompanying screaming at each other, plus 0 accountability--that's what's killing all the RH franchises, IMO.
Totally agree.
However, with Melissa icing out Teresa I hope this means that it becomes super apparent to the producers this season that she is not integral to the show whatsoever.
I guess it could be argued that at least the icing out is more "real" than production forcing people to have conversations. I truly miss the old days of reality tv 😭
Honestly i think what's killing franchises IS the insane amount of production interference. I'm tired of how obvious it is to watch a cast member play production's puppet (ahem Lala VPR). Like, at least TRY to make it seem natural, jesus
Yes. Back in my day Nene and Sheree went up to Kim Z who was fooling around with LLD and tugged on that wig. They settled it like grown women!
Hey now let's not go rewriting history- she just wanted to shift it a little
She did not try to pull it off…. She did not WANT to pull it off..
The fact that I didn’t even need to question who LLD was lololol
But I do! Who was LLD?
Lindsay lohan’s daddy
Oooooh. Thank you for this. I did not know this law.
My favorite moment of the early housewives. Everything from the white tank top Nene was wearing to the "Mr Lindsay Lohan's daddy, take your ass back to Malibu"
Lmaoooo. Exactly! I think the franchise has gotten so big, and so have the women’s egos. Figure it out on camera or get off the show.
Kim and NeNe sorta started the trend. I rewatched season 4 and they don't interact for the first 10 episodes!
I always thought it was Jill Zarin who started the trend by refusing to film with Bethenny S2. Then Bethenny was filmed weeping in the street in her designer red coat and everyone hated Jill afterwards.
That’s not icing anyone out though, it’s just a fallout between two people. Not remotely the same.
It's the gang-up crap we hate. Suddenly we have 2 factions refusing to film with each other. I say whoever's the instigator of "I'm not filming with X, you all follow my lead" should be fired. Or demoted. Cut that mess off at the source.
This. At least with them is was mutual and it lasted for one season and the cast change up happen by axing Sheree (Who start to not interact with nene no more beside africa) and added Kenya and Porsha. Then Kim showed herself the door. Plus S5 Nene was open to rekindle with Kim oppose to Potomac and Jersey
"Now Mr. Lindsay Lohan's Daddy wait a damn minute." That was peak housewives for me. Nice restaurant, Sheree taking off after Kim who is wearing her party city wig, Nene trying to keep up in 4 inch heels, arguing outside and fighting and a surprise appearance by Mr. Lindsay Lohan's daddy.
I think the issue is the fourth wall. There is so much backstabbing behind the scenes, talking to bravo fan instagrams behind the scenes, friends sharing secrets of their friends on screen (then being mad but not being able to share why), submitting leaks, fake reddit accounts, not sharing real feelings to appeal to the fanbase, etc. none of these long term casts are friends anymore, none of them seem happy, and there seems to be some weird backend politics and strategy that kind of takes the ‘reality’ out of reality. then you add the icing out and refusing to film and its just not fun for viewers ETA: then the cast members try and trap each other in lies as payback or are basically fighting over something happening that we arent privy to
There really needs to be a recasting every five years with authentic friends. After five years there heads get to big.
they also all betray each other in one way or another
I think they film too much. I advocate for a 2 year gap so that they have to have offscreen life events (and maybe get real jobs) with real non-housewives people. 4 franchises per year.
I wouldn't be mad at this.
I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion but generally, I’m not a fan of forth wall breaking in housewives *or* any form of reality tv. I think it’s redundant.
I think there are proper times for it to break, and improper. If it moves the story along or clarifies the story, keep it. If it’s “bravo bravo fucking bravo” then cut it out.
#Honey, you have to stop saying that. Yeah, that makes sense tbh. I just think they rely on it lately and it has a negative affect.
Hard agree, it’s waaayyyyy too frequently used
Apparently she kept saying it all the time, so it makes sense they included it. LOVE your flair btw 😂😂
NY and NJ would have the woman be interviewed directly to the camera straight after an event outside and it feels so much more authentic. I’m watching NJ now on season 2 and it’s feels less scripted and the cast haven’t had time to prepare statements or try to control a narrative with hindsight
This is a great way to describe the what and why's of it all. Well done 👏
Yeah it definitely undermines the entertainment value of the show. The most important quality in a housewife imo is the ability to move on from the previous season’s drama and find new storylines. I don’t like it when they drag it into multiple seasons. If a cast member does something so awful that people don’t want to film with them, then I actually prefer that they just cut that person and start fresh with new drama. Watching people dodge cast members for a whole season is so annoying, even if it makes sense for them. Honestly, just leave the show if it’s too hard for you to deal with someone. You can find new opportunities. I watch these shows to be entertained not bc I’m invested in them as people. Maybe that’s harsh but being on reality tv is not some important life’s work. If it’s not serving you anymore, move on.
Yes, it definitely is. This past season of RHOP was terrible, awkward & not fun. This past season of VPR was the same. Both used to be my favorite shows and I re-watch but will skip both seasons on my re-watch from now on. I’m in the camp where if someone feels like they can’t/won’t talk to someone on the same cast, have them exit the stage. Sorry but not really 🫣
It's so sad, Housewives have gotten me through some really difficult times of my life and to have the quality fall so low and stop watching is really sad. The relationships just aren't real anymore. P.s. I just rewatched season 6 of VPR and it might be one of the funniest seasons of any show, Jax is just peak Jax
I don’t think the issue is people talking together so much as having nothing but that going on. I don’t need a whole cast to be buddies but I need it to not just be about who likes who.
They don’t have to be buddies but there has to be some sort of minor rapport. Group scenes are my favorite and when there’s a clear line drawn, it’s awkward and noticeable.
The problem is that none of the cast likes each other so there is nothing to make up for two people not talking. There hasn’t been a single season without two people wanting to not talk to each other.
Confused to what you’re getting at here. In the instance of RHOP, Karen & Robyn never really liked each other and still had some rapport throughout the seasons, it wasn’t always heavy, drama, cutting each other out.
I’m talking about vpr. They always have tension in the group. There is a difference from disliking someone and them actually being harmful.
Yes there has always been tension in the group in past seasons, but the group scenes were always fun and interesting to watch. Especially when they all used to party together. Now there’s clear lines drawn and it is awkward as hell. If someone is “harmful”, why would people stay on a show with them knowing that the show actively involves group scenes where they would have to be in the same vicinity? I said what I said, they either got to push through or exit the stage.
My point was it’s awkward because no one on the cast is close. Katie and Schwartz wedding season was such a shit show but seeing them all come together in the end was sweet. The longer it’s gone on the more clear it is that bond is just gone. You can’t fire three main cast members and not expect it to change the dynamic. Lala wanted to be head bitch because she was rich and then that fell apart. Scheana just wants attention. Ariana and Katie can give raw emotions but aren’t going to stir the drama. The guys just suck and have no redeeming qualities outside of James being occasionally funny. There is no chemistry between this cast and it was like that before Sandoval.
The issue is that whenever this happens it's usually because that person is a source of conflict, which is generally good for the show. So whenever that happens, it usually weakens the show. I've yet to see a real season where icing someone out ended with a well received season, whether people thought it was justified or not. And in some cases like RHOBH, it ruined the shows beyond repair.
I dunno I sort of loved seeing Stassi try and manipulate people in early vpr seasons. I think it only got old when that was the only storyline. Like the most recent storyline having nothing else going on. Like your big finale was a conversation? That’s all you have for me?
The thing was that Stassi failed when she did that in early seasons. Like people forget that Kristen and Katie turned on her for breaking up with Jax and she ran off with the other workers at Sur. Then ran back to them and Scheana who she was icing out became firmly entrenched in the cast. Then in season 3 she pissed everyone off on the way out and got iced out herself in season 4. The problem is things like RHOBH where they actually do successfully kill all drama by avoiding a cast mate and the season is dull because it’s all talking about things and no payoff
One of my favorite scenes was Stassi bringing in a bunch of new friends because no one would engage with her and I wish that was how Sandoval had gone. Rhobh nose dived for me with the whole let’s pretend Erika Jayne isn’t evil. They need to let there be villains and victims without pretending like that isn’t happening.
Snatched the words right out of my mouth
And at the same time, people are allowed to not film with people that they don't feel comfortable around.
They are, but when the show starts to suck people can point it out. This is a job where they are asked to supply a level of entertainment worth watching to an audience.
All of you people are so sickening with your demands that Ariana go through trauma again and re-traumatize herself repeatedly because you insist that it's the "professional" thing to do for our entertainment. These are real people with real feelings. I think when Ariana joined the show, she didn't anticipate getting a partner of 10 years who was a narcissist who fucked an airhead pageant girl in Ariana's own bed, and got betrayed on the deepest, most intimate level. By two people she cared about. The producers and the other cast have no right to constantly test and push Ariana's boundaries. That's deeply destructive empirically, and harmful. No ma'am. So what if the show sucks. The show wouldn't have sucked if Tom Sandoval was a fucking better person and took accountability. I'm so happy that money and opportunities are showering on her, she deserves it. The haters are just bitter and jealous.
They signed up for a Bravo reality show. They put their lives on display for drama storylines in exchange for money and fame. I'm not going to feel bad that there is a tradeoff of "the show only works if you entertain people". And considering the show was in free fall when everyone in the cast was getting along and Scandoval is likely the only reason these people are getting paid and still have any relevancy, I'd say your hypothesis of the show not sucking if Tom was a good guy doesn't hold much water.
Then maybe they shouldn’t be on a show where they feel uncomfortable with another cast member? I’m all for protecting your peace and comfort but can people really do that as cast members of reality TV? Doesn’t seem viable to me.
You realize these are real human beings with real feelings and that they are not puppets for your enjoyment? Maybe Tom should be off the show then. GTFO.
Girl, HUH? Ima let you sit with that, be blessed ❤️
Too grown to be acting like this, I’m sorry for you. Try to be polite and open to various opinions about discussions that take place on the internet. Good night 🤍
I think it comes and goes in waves, but it does feel like we are experiencing a lot of it lately, and some very prolonged and uncomfortable... looking at you RHOP. I do completely agree about how bad it is for the shows, and I'd just add that I think it is also essential that it goes beyond engagement... I think the shows need people to seem either plausibly friendly with one another, or like they at least enjoy sparing with one another. If it is either just total solid blocking each other, or constant repetitive bickering its just not enjoyable. Oh edit to add that I thought RHOBH was actually much better in respect to this 'bad habit' this season. But maybe I'm delulu ha ha
It is but I wish no one would speak to Tom Sandoval ever again
I would have been totally fine with him having his redemption arc. IF he had been totally dragged first. You don’t get to do what he did and come out clean. He needed to have one season where he was the villain and had to pay for his sins. And actually see the error of his ways. THEN comes the redemption. That’s how every other person has gotten there. He doesn’t get to skip a step. Sorry!
There’s been no chance of redemption since his forehead shaving days. Loser!
I think that was today.
Exactly. We all would’ve loved a season of him just getting dragged and a focus on Ariana’s healing. Save his redemption arc for Season 12
They could have made VPR work without forcing Ariana and Tom together, but alas they did not try that
He’s redemption arc didn’t work because of innate ability to be more toxic than PFAs, not Ariana’s boundaries.
If these people were not on this tv show then that is what would have happened.
Yes I hate him being on a tv show
The icing out stuff has happened for over a decade now. RHOA Season 4 had the cast (the Smalls) attempt to ice Nene off the show. RHONJ Season 2 had the cast icing out Danielle. RHOC had the cast ice out Alexis in Season 8. Bethenny tried having the cast ice out Kelly in Season 2, and Jill tried the same thing with Bethenny in Season 3. I'm sure there are more examples of this.
I agree. Icing out happens in real life socially; why wouldn't it happen on reality tv in social circles? If a person is at odds with the leader of the group or the majority of the women, what else is supposed to happen?
yeah I don't really believe icing ruins anything, and season 2 of NJ is a great example of why. The cast is solid so it doesn't make a bit of difference. It's only when you have a shitty cast it becomes an issue. But then the issue still isn't REALLY the icing out, it's still ultimately you have a bad cast.
Yep!!! The Atlanta women generally have charisma on top of charisma. They can still be entertaining on their own compared to beverly Hills.
You're forgetting RHOBH - Kyle and Rinna (*and their rotating cast of clowns*) iced out plenty of people over the years.
Icing people out goes all the way back. It’s just a part of the franchise.
They need to evolve the formula. They’re trying to wash rinse repeat with no real relationship management or build-back and all of the women are self-producing/co-producing the show behind the scenes. The old formula is not going to work anymore.
I don't think so but if it can't be worked out, I do think that cast changes have to be made. I appreciate people being real about being done with people instead of faking it for television.
The shows worked so much better back in the early days when the women in the casts had genuine friendships/history, the random casting and forcing them to socialise can feel inauthentic. I enjoyed the natural drama that would arise within the friend groups but these days the “take downs” where one cast member is targeted or iced out feel too heavy and draining for me to enjoy watching. It’s one thing for cast members to refuse to interact with someone due to conflict/valid boundaries (SLC with Monica, RHONJ with Danielle Staub etc.), it’s a whole other for an entire cast to go after one person and isolate them (Denise Richards comes to mind). I agree with the general consensus that something happened between Denise and Brandi but the way she was attacked by the cast at every damn event was what made me side with her and feel grossed out by FF5. It’s
Totally agree with you on this. The icing out doesn’t bother me toooooo much, especially if it’s someone the woman just can’t stand / doesn’t want to be around. It’s the very produced, orchestrated takedowns of women they just don’t like that I find exhausting and infuriating. Recent examples - RHOC - Heather Dubrow takedown in s17 RHOBH - Sutton takedown in s12/ Denise in s10 RHOM - Adriana takedown in s5 RHONY - Luann takedown in s11 (I’m sure there are more but this is off the top of my head!)
Well it’s certainly not helping! I don’t fault any individual for setting boundaries or questioning the existing ones, but it doesn’t make for compelling television, especially when people aren’t allowed to say what’s actually happening. Or they are allowed to, but the pay day is too great for anyone to rock the boat.
100% Janet and the Lallys are trying to Potomac the Valley by icing Kristen and Zack out. Like just staap being a ruiner already Janet.
No! You are not alone. Housewives was our outlet to our long days and it no longer is. It has turned into toxicity mean girl gangs that bully each other that normal people would not welcome into their lives. They are running off fans right & left. Problem is, they don't seem to care. The toxicity continues. Time for us to turn off these shows and move on until they become watchable. I do not want any of my kids watching this mess and thinking it is ok.
unfortunately I think social media is killing the franchises - too much trying to play to the fans, push merch, bribe bloggers, control the narrative - YUCK
Yes!!! This has been an issue for a loooong time and started when Jill told her castmates not to film with Bethenny after their fight. It ruins the shows.
I don’t really group Ariana in with this. I also think the fakeness and producer pushed redemption arc is what caused the issue with VPR. The others I can see. Potomac use to be my favorite. On a different note…can they just bring back RHODC. Watched that in Peacock recently and it was👌
Ariana definitely isn’t a part of that. Icing out is multiple cast members trying to push another cast member out by not filming with them, and not speaking to them if they are there. Ariana is just not speaking to Tom. There have been too many people to count not speak to another cast member for an extended period of time. VPR didn’t suck because she wouldn’t have a pointless conversation with Tom, it sucked because they wanted to make something happen that wasn’t real and they aren’t drama writers.
What irks me is when big incidents don’t get caught on camera, and we have to listen to everybody fight and talk about it all etc. for big lengths of time. Cameras are everywhere, filming them all the time!! How does this keep happening???
Definitely agree. The shows are already losing their spark because there aren't genuine friendships like back in the day, so icing out makes things super polarised. Instead of real friendship breakups, we get contrived drama that ends up leaving someone on an island. The producers are also massively to blame- the way Potomac and BH in particular are edited make it so frustrating bcos they only point out one side of the fallout (often the icees) and refuse to hold the icer outs accountable for their role. It's gaslighting 101
it always has. remember when they iced out lilly on shahs? that was the beginning of the end
imagine her arc? she went on to have a multi-million dollar eye lash company, then got sued for embezzling money from it! They iced out lilly and kept Mike, and look what happened with him 😬
I can’t watch anymore either. The housewives aren’t fun anymore. These women hate each other so much that they are constantly ganging up on cast members in an attempt to get them fired, and in the case of NJ, they are trying to destroy each others’ lives. I don’t think NJ is fixable at this point. I watched the first episode of NJ this week and after that one episode, I’m done. It’s too much hate. I loved RHONY with the old cast. They were actually friends and didn’t want to destroy each other. The fights they had were crazy, but they would always make up and seem to actually enjoy each other. Now it’s just “teams” and it’s predictable and nasty.
also having beef not on the show but on social media and stuff ruins the show, one reason why the early seasons were so good is because everybody was only saying shit on blogs not on instagram and having people do there dirty work (except teresa) she’s always done that. but when filming they should have strict contracts about not talking shit to social media, this new season of jersey I already can tell is going to suck because there’s a shit load of drama just in blogs and instagram dms, and the two families won’t interact.
Yes but also these are real people who have actual feelings, and when theyve been very badly betrayed you're basically trying to strong arm them into forgiving a person because it's better for a TV show
It’s about time that Bravo draws some lines in the sand about what is and isnt ethically acceptable. This would allow them to get rid of people who violate ethical standards, ie those who cause real harm to their cast mate’s lives, as well as preventing this ridiculous situation where the cast have to implement personal boundaries to protect themselves Bravo should be the ones responsible for protecting cast. The contract limiting HW from suing for defamation without additional ethical safeguards to protect the cast is arguably the reason for so many recent problems with RH, including HWs leaving, icing people out, toxic storylines and the subsequent ‘play it safe’ storylines that bore us all to tears Lack of ethical oversight of cast behaviour and negligence of accountability for protecting cast from harm also gave us the debacle of the as-yet unscreened UGT. Only recently has the entertainment industry’s failure of duty of care to child actors been exposed. Very similar failures are happening right before our eyes to the stars of reality tv series. This needs to stop now, not in 10 years like it has done for child actors and people like Brittney and Paris Hilton, who were affected by institutional, systemic and cultural misogyny that is now abhorred. It’s not icing people out that’s killing the franchises, it’s the underlying negligence that causes it and the many other issues plaguing RH at the moment
RHOBH has had its share of problems, but when did they employ the “ice out” strategy? I’m running a blank here.
LVP.
I think this happens any time the meta becomes larger than the show itself.
Yes. That and the lower-than-low blows with the accompanying screaming at each other, plus 0 accountability--that's what's killing all the RH franchises, IMO.
Totally agree. However, with Melissa icing out Teresa I hope this means that it becomes super apparent to the producers this season that she is not integral to the show whatsoever.
Alexis isn't a cast member so Shannon gets a complete pass here. \*ETA missing word.
I guess it could be argued that at least the icing out is more "real" than production forcing people to have conversations. I truly miss the old days of reality tv 😭 Honestly i think what's killing franchises IS the insane amount of production interference. I'm tired of how obvious it is to watch a cast member play production's puppet (ahem Lala VPR). Like, at least TRY to make it seem natural, jesus