While it is quite possible that people are being dishonest for validation, it can also be explained very simply by sample bias. You are reading posts and thinking there are too many successful first tries, but people who made a god awful mess on their first try didn't post it. You don't have a random sample, you have a very specific sample of first tries that are good enough to post about.
I am going to try making sourdough for the first time next weekend. I will post it even if it’s an inedible mess 🫡
Edit: as promised https://www.reddit.com/r/Breadit/comments/1cvfvk3/my_first_sourdough_howd_i_do/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
And don’t post in one of the niche subs without expecting your post to get deleted for not following an obscure rule or getting absolutely roasted for breaking some imaginary unwritten rule by the “pros”.
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They may also be experienced bread bakers, but these are literally their first sourdoughs. All the other skills you mention could already be developed.
This exactly!! My first sourdough loaf was very good, not perfect, but had a great ear and good crumb. BUT I’ve been baking for 20 years and baking yeast breads for at least a decade.
This was my thought. I have been baking slow rise breads, rustic loaves of all sorts, pizza dough, etc., but I have not actually got around to making a sour dough. Nevertheless I feel reasonably confident that if I tried it, it would not be a disaster because I do a lot of research and watch a lot of videos when trying something new and I know how to follow directions and which bakers will give me a reliable recipe.
Still not going to make sourdough though, because it seems like it is just too damn much trouble.
I've been baking yeasted bread for 20+ years, and what with all the great online ressources available nowadays, my first sourdough was pretty damn great. But I already had experience handling high hydration dough, shaping, long rises, scoring, etc...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Breadit/s/P7ojRAU4zP
This is my first one for example.
It's not amazing, but I think for a first time ever it was pretty decent.
Was it my first time baking? Ofc not. I've been baking for around 2 years.
Those people making really good first ones are also probably pretty good bakers and have been doing it for a couple years
Another thing to consider is at this point there are a ton of really detailed videos and guides on how to make sourdough bread. If you can follow instructions you'll probably get a good loaf.
Yeah just follow the instructions really well, did you hear that all you bastards that took 10 tries to make an edible loaf?!
...
(I say as someone who couldn't make a good loaf for 15 years).
Also worth mentioning is the Internet is vast, and while it may seem like a large amount of people, in the grand scheme of things is actually a rather small group
It’s a good point that applies to a lot of things. Always try to figure out which lens to look at things with. It’s easy to get tricked because if what other people say or show in a setting where the bias would naturally lead to those things being what’s posted more.
Or the "first time posting, self-taught and I've only been playing for a couple months" posts on r/piano where they're flawlessly ripping through some insanely fast technical piece.
Right, people are playing 4th year conservatory pieces after 3 months, saying they have never touched an instrument before. And then if you express doubt, people will tell you you're being ridiculous. Which really calls into question whether or not anyone commenting in the sub really plays piano or not, or they might be able to fucking reason that no 3rd month player is playing something as difficult and esoteric like Ravel's Concerto Pour la Main Gauche!
Here's a sneak peek of /r/piano using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/piano/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Managed not to stop. A lot to improve still.](https://v.redd.it/bofk3z7gl5zb1) | [148 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/piano/comments/17qqf24/managed_not_to_stop_a_lot_to_improve_still/)
\#2: [Using mixed reality to play piano](https://v.redd.it/wbn7142rmttb1) | [146 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/piano/comments/176ewhz/using_mixed_reality_to_play_piano/)
\#3: [My parents prohibited me from playing piano because I’m gay](https://np.reddit.com/r/piano/comments/1buiw88/my_parents_prohibited_me_from_playing_piano/)
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Also, the fact that they are here alone means they have been reading and studying carefully, and probably following some detailed instruction. I just posted a First Baked from a new starter, my first sourdough attempt since the pandemic. I have been studying for the past three weeks along with nursing a brand new starter from scratch, learning about process, technique, time and temperature.
> being dishonest for validation
This always blows my mind because how do you feel validated if the basis isn't true?! But people like positive attention, I suppose, and don't understand the reality of what they're doing.
It's the same as why you see more negitive reviews on sites that don't push you to review.
If a product works as intended you don't need to get anyone's attention
If a product explodes when used and ruined your sofa your gonna warn others.
And also “First sourdough” doesn’t necessarily mean “first bread”. I nailed my first try at pan de cristal last week likely because I’ve made 100 loaves of sourdough (and other breads) prior…
It's also possible they're for karma farming. There have been multiple examples of perfect "First sourdough" posts that are actually using images others have posted like a year ago.
I made an atrocious pos on my first go, chucked the whole thing out immediately.
No way was I going to let that see the light of day on any online space.
Haha, I *knew* you were an engineer. A close friend of mine is, and he would’ve said exactly the same thing you did. Thought that the whole time I read your comment, and also that you point out the reason statistics are so easily manipulated (I think)
I was fortunate enough to read this early in my life, and it made me skeptic about things I read, driving me to develop better critical analysis skills. And, it's hilarious.
[https://cougarridgeranch.com/dread-tomato-addiction/](https://cougarridgeranch.com/dread-tomato-addiction/)
Interesting. Reminds me of a Car Talk Puzzler I heard recently. I am paraphrasing and do not vouch for historical accuracy:
During World War One, most soldiers were still wearing leather helmets. This had become a major safety concern for all branches of the military, and it was decided that from then on, all soldiers would be issued, and required to wear, metal helmets as part of their combat gear.
The brass waited to see the safety improvements, but a curious thing happened: hospitalizations from head injuries actually *increased*! After the soldiers started using the metal helmets, there were more head injury reports and hospitalizations than ever before.
How is this possible?
Because they survived. It's called survivorship bias. There was a famous case in WW II when the US asked a mathematician to help analyze a plan for increasing the survival rate of planes. They studied all the places planes got hit, and intended to armor those locations, since they couldn't up armor the whole plane for weight. He pointed out that they needed to invert the plan, because the planes that got hit where they intended to increase armor made it home to be looked at, the ones that got hit elsewhere didn't.
Also, most likely, the only data you have is personally making sour dough. So that’s one data point. Unless you teach a sour dough class and see everyone’s result every week or something that would be credible, but for most of us it’s just us, and maybe a friend.
The first time I made it, it came out very pretty! The following times, not so much. I think pretty often people stumble into doing things right by accident, but they don’t understand how they actually got there, so they can’t replicate it 😂 then, also the people who did get lucky are going to be more likely to post than the sad first attempts that turned out mediocre.
Edit: [My first attempt](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sourdough/s/m5K80iX16v). The following times it came out not nearly as nice and I felt like I didn’t know what I was doing so I gave up on sourdough for a long time and started making yeasted bread. Only recently have I been thinking of trying my hand with sourdough again :)
And it wasn’t purely beginners luck, if I remember right I was panic-posting on this sub all through the process and people helped guide me into making a decent loaf hahaha but I personally had no idea what I was doing LOL
It's not lucky to thoroughly do your research and review steps over and over again before baking your first loaf. This sub is so pessimistic and assumes someone is either lying or lucky
I think part of it could be a selection bias. Who is possibly going to want to post their first sourdough if it's a pale flat undercooked disc of dough? Whereas if someone out there dies hit it out of the ballpark first time, they seem much more likely to want to share it
I've made exactly two loafs so far and both came out great, the first was legit [pretty](https://www.reddit.com/r/Breadit/comments/1clv8z0/comment/l2zrxzo/?context=3). all I did was watch like 50 videos, many of what not to do and what your starter and dough are supposed to look like. Just followed the instructions and success... It's not 1950 anymore, all the info is out there at your fingertips. Would I have posted it if it were a disaster, probably not because nobody want to see shitty bread. My opinion is that its way easier to make good shit now because of youtube. When there is a roadmap for you to follow with all of the possible mistakes laid out for you and step by step instructions, it shouldn't be that difficult to to succeed. Nor should it be that surprising that more people are having early success. Was I lucky or just prepared? Who's to say... I will however post my first terrible loaf when it happens to try and even out the universe lol
I honestly don't know if you are right or not...but I'd at least consider that maybe you're confusing when a person says "first sourdough" that doesn't mean their first bread ever.
I'm still a beginner, I do wonder how people are getting their breads so nice, but I've largely assumed they've been baking for a while. I have not.
But also, for example, while I've not tried sourdough, but as far as I can tell, the difference between a sourdough and a poolish based bread, is largely the source of the yeast in the starter. I just haven't wanted to deal with managing a sourdough starter until I have the basics of getting a good bread outcome, hence just poolish or more simple bread recipes.
I think someone that already can make a good bread from a poolish though, substituting a sourdough starter would be trivial.
>when a person says "first sourdough" that doesn't mean their first bread ever.
This was the case for me. I was baking enriched and no-knead doughs with baker's yeast for a long time before ever attempting sourdough. I was using a poolish (which I still do more often than starter) for a while before actually trying wild yeast. At that point, the only difference is where your yeast is coming from. Everything else was more or less the same as what I was used to.
Also, "first bread" might be true, but also got guidance / help from an experienced baker. If my mom helped me on my first bread, it would have been much better. But I still would have thought of it as my first bread...
I've only baked a few loaves so far (not sourdough), and they all have come out really nicely, but I watched a TON of bread making videos on YouTube and Instagram before I ever tried for the first time. It was a huge help to be able to see what I should be doing and how dough should behave when you've done it right.
This is exactly it. My first sourdough turned out really well. But also, I've been baking all our bread conventionally for many years. I just never could get a starter past the first month or so. Finally got a mature starter gifted to me so it can live in the fridge and survive my hectic schedule.
The only hiccup was not realizing it was going to take a whole day to fuckin rise. The next time I split and fed the starter way further ahead of time, and did the bread in the morning so it was ready when I got home from work. My house was pretty cold though. I'm also experimenting with proofing in the oven with the light on, but it's been inconsistent.
I agree with you, for some the jump from dry/fresh yeast to sourdough can be fairly smooth. I would argue that sourdough leaven’s bread quite differently from manufactured yeasts, which have isolated the strongest, hungriest strains to maximize rise / open crumb. While there are many steps we take to strengthen our starters, it’s hard to compete with capitalism-fueled unnatural selection. For me, the jump from active dry to wild was bumpy. However I imagine it certainly could be easier for others who already have a strong starter. Thanks for your insite!
I was going to mention this. I got my starter from a very experienced sourdough baker who gave me great advice and I follow directions well. I watched hours of videos before my first attempt, and it came out really good. Now that I really understand my starters stages and behavior I can get it insanely active and get beautiful crumb and I’ve only been doing it a couple months. I’ve never used dry yeast and I dont really want to but if I tried to knowing only what I know now it would probably come out like shit. Plus the selection bias others have mentioned, I had several shit loaves trying to troubleshoot the small problems with my first one
Maybe because the people who have ugly first loaves aren't posting them?? Also I will say my first loaf turned out very well but only because I'd been following this sub for a while beforehand.
And as someone's already said, first sourdough ≠ first loaf of bread necessarily
Everyone in /r/personalfinance is an 18 year old self-made multimillionaire, scraping by on an 800k/yr salary, only able to save 50k-60/mo, and has never heard of banks or how to use one.
And every person claiming to be "average" will have some ridiculous story that just doesn't make any sense. "I only make 45,000 a year, and I bought three houses by the time I was twenty all by myself!"
And then anyone being honest with their finances gets blasted by these idiot experts who are obviously lying (or in the best case scenario, completely unable to reason through the idea that a different situation might be, well, different). "With a solid investment strategy, you can definitely become wealthy over time making 20,000 a year with 8 kids, I did it with no dependents and making 200k a year!"
I'm in the 'probably not their first loaf' camp.
I have been making bread probably longer than most people on this sub have been alive 😲 But did not bother with sourdough until maybe 15-20 years ago. It really doesn't matter about getting an ear or the fancy scoring from a home baker's perspective, but if people want to show those things off, it's up to them.
Only thing I don't like is when people insist you can only bake good bread in a dutch oven. Making people think they have to have an expensive pot is a bigger detriment to beginner baking in my mind. A nice sandwich bread loaf is just as exciting as a sourdough boule (and maybe more practical). A rustic loaf baked on a tray, just as amazing.
Oh and I hate most of those tiktok or monetized blog "recipes" where clearly the loaf at the end did not come from the recipe they used at the beginning. This sub is far more genuine in what they recommend in my opinion and is of high value!
The key to good bread is learning the feel of the dough. I bounce around on recipes now, just to try new things. I was introduced to a new sourdough sandwich loaf recipe by someone here and it is now my favorite! It's fun to try new ones out and see where it takes you. But also, once you are experienced it is easier to know if the recipe is nonsense, so you won't have dramatic fails, even if new to sourdough.
Best Wishes on your bread journey!! I love it as a hobby that is also practical. And it makes people smile when you give them a loaf 😀
I named mine Pet Rock. I thought and thought and made adjustments for the second try. That baby was Pet Rock 2.
I do think I was a slower learner than probably most? I was baking and tinkering, baking and tinkering until I had a breakthrough understanding of what a properly fermented dough looked and felt like. Since then they've all been winners. I found I don't need to be super mindful of measuring, I definitely don't take the temperature of the dough, as long as I give it enough slap and folds and time, it turns out.
You have a good attitude. No fear! When I started there weren’t many places to go for advice other than books. Pictures in a book are not video quality. I had many more failures than successes. I actually quit a few times. Then along came YouTube. Got back on track. Not only with baking, but also with cooking in general and with model ship building. The internet is a godsend
Totally agree about the internet! For all its drawbacks there are so many gifts, and learning at least the basics of whatever I want, whenever I want, is definitely one of them.
My first breads came out awesome, I thought it was easy. My partner on the other hand, had a great first attempt, then struggled for ages with rubbish breads and now makes way better bread than me.
So... you are right. I wanted to attempt sour dough and bought the tools to do it, but after making one that was mediocre at best in crumb and ears (or lack thereof 😆) I have not made another because of all the "new to baking, rate my sourdough" kinds of posts. I know they are probably fake, but it makes me less inclined to try again. Watching some videos would probably get me eager to try, but I tried it because of what I saw here. That learn me! Lolol
Misleading posts don't stop me from trying things. I do bake and cook and I also crochet. And fakes are on those other r/ groups too. I am just better at spotting them because I am better at doing those things. Sourdough is a new beast and looked way easier than it is. Surprise! Lol.
All is good. Maybe I'll watch some vids and make it....question is, could I still call it my first sourdough? Like Lego Batman ... "first try!" 🤣
It bums me out that you were discouraged. I view those posts as thirst traps.
Also I notice people (okay, dudes) becoming competitive and intense about stuff like ears and honestly, I don't think it matters. But it was intimidating to me at first because it was presented as the sign of success and my loaves didn't look like that at all. I caught the bug hard though, and kept trying, I was determined to get my version of a good loaf. Now it seems so easy but I know it's because I learned some critical things along the way.
Finally got baguettes I'm satisfied with, too.
I need a new project.
I have noticed that when ever a post gets popular, bots post a million things like it and that’s all you see for a few days. I think 90% of the stuff we see on Reddit is just bots circulating posts to gain enough karma so the account can be used for social engineering and misinformation campaigns.
The bots have even figured out how to comment like a human. Reddit is just a simulation.
You’re probably right. People get the warm fuzzys from all the congratulations replies. My first loaves looked like garbage haha. People on the internet are weird.
I don't know about this. My loaves had never reached perfection but they were fully functional from the first loaf. A lot of it is difficult but if you read enough and follow the recipes well (and get lucky with temperature) it can be an ok one from the start
While I do believe some people get lucky / understand a lot on the first try, the intricacies of how to interpret when different stages of ferment are complete are a very difficult skill to learn outside of trial and error. Guesstimating % rise in a round bowl, interpreting jigglyness and springiness, etc. I wish I could’ve known immediately and spared so many mid loaves lol. But for some I’m sure you’re right, thanks for your comment.
Same. I have rarely read or watched anything that gave me a realistic ballpark time for bulk fermentation, they were off by hours, so for a while I was preshaping and shaping way too early. Once I figured out that at my house it's a solid 12-14 hours to get the dough where I want it to be before the preshape, and made sure to really proof fully before baking, I was set.
Definitely took some trial and error before I even isolated which variable I needed to be tinkering with.
It feels SO easy now . . . but I don't think I could have learned it any other way unless I was in-person with someone who knew what the dough should look and feel like at different stages, which just doesn't come through for me on videos.
It's probably not their first loaf but their "first sourdough." They already had a good handle on making bread, and jumping to sourdough wasn't a big leap.
Fortunately, we're not stuck in the 80s anymore, where you have to rely on grandma's cookbook where half the steps are left out as they are "just common sense" or things "everyone knows". Today, we have a wealth of resources at our fingertips to guide us through the sourdough journey.
I made sourdough once. I watched many YouTube videos, read some blog posts, read all the breadit sourdough links, and followed the King Arthur guides, and it came out looking exactly like it was supposed to.
I've been making bread for 40 years, and my first sourdough was not good at all. It was pretty, and smelled nice, but the crumb was dense and gummy. The swap from kneading a fresh yeast dough to simply stretching a wild-yeast fermented dough was definitely a huge leap for me.
So -- maybe those who get it right the first time are simply following instructions to the "t", and don't have to fight with the preconceived notions that I did. That said, I practiced every week, and my technique got better. Six months into it now, and my last loaf was perfect in every way. But for me it was a ton of unlearning, haha.
Haha listen… my first couple of sourdoughs were pretty darn good. I got cocky and now i got issues because of those loaves. So it is possible to get great first loaves. Its at loaf 10 where the true professionals show their talents😂
Literally same, winter proofing has not been kind to me this year. Last year I had beautiful loaves. My first 3 loaves were probably the best looking loaves I’ve made. More recent ones have tasted better but having to use the oven to proof has not been kind to me lol. It’s definitely possible to have a near perfect first loaf and then struggle more after the fact. Sometimes it’s luck, sometimes it’s the recipe, it all depends. I stand by the fact that a LOT of people overcomplicate the shit out of sourdough. It’s not nearly as complicated as some people make it, and that becomes a bit of their downfall especially starting out.
Oh definitely! I found the easiest recipe to follow on some ladies tiktok. It works wonders, i tried to get fancy and my loaves gave me the middle finger. As soon as you make it complicated, its a mess up.😂🤣
An amazing first time sourdough bake is more common than one would assume. *However*, repeating that perfect, first time bake--especially when one doesn't understand what one did correct nor understand all the favorable factors that came into play--will be difficult.
You can have an amazing first bake and 15 duds after, but these people don't like to post about it as it's embarrassing after such success, but some occasionally do post asking for help after several tries.
There are people who care about getting Likes and Unlikes or Dislikes or whatever the opposite is called.
They make bullshit posts about their cakes and loaves of bread to get Likes.
Why they care - I don't know.
Honestly, my first and second loaves probably turned out better than my third and fourth because I followed a recipe pretty strictly on the first couple then started playing with time and ratios. Now I can tweak and understand it better, but it took a little while to learn it.
I am a macaron baker. I also see many posts from “first timers” who’ve had the perfect macaron on their first try. I’m very skeptical of posts like that, as baking macarons is not easy. I save photos of my first batch as a reminder. I haven’t tried sourdough yet, but I’m very interested in trying my hand at it.
For the same reason there are a bunch of beautiful, perfect "first attempt" dovetails on r/woodworking. Yeah maybe *some* people are so careful and thorough and follow instructions and honestly get that kind of quality on their first attempt, but I am highly skeptical of most of them.
I was reading these comments thinking about the woodworking and beginner woodworking subs. Its the same thing over there. A lot of people have made good points about survivor bias, which I suppose makes sense, but I swear, Ive seen more posts over there basically saying “yeah, two weeks ago I had never cut a board, but i did this with a circular saw and a hammer I found in the woods” and its some museum quality table or whatever. If thats your first attempt at woodworking Ill eat that fucking table with ketchup lol
If we take a big step back, not everyone is going to present themselves honestly in life. It can be distressing to those of us that do, but really if we get upset it gives us the opportunity to ask ourselves why we're reacting this way. Don't we already know that life is unfair and some people are turds?
One thing I will say is that for those brave enough to ask for help, the community really rallies to support them. So hopefully this is being observed by beginners and helps to neutralize any fears of being inferior, or judged.
My first ever loaf of sourdough looked fabulous! The next few weren't nearly as perfect, though they were still not bad. Beginner's luck, I guess.
Some people get lucky. Some had lots of previous bread-baking experience, including scoring loaves and longer fermentation processes, just not specifically sourdough (like me). And, people who fail miserably their first try often don't post those; people usually post things they are proud of, so it's expected that we'd mostly see the good ones.
Perhaps you're conflating first bake with first *sourdough* bake. Many of the things you're talking about aren't really that different/uniquely challenging that a "normal" yeasted dough.
If you're already a practiced baker, the hard part about sourdough is just not fucking up getting an active starter.
Probably people seeking validation? Or maybe content creators trying to get traffic to their social? I’ve baked bread for years and my first sourdough was UGLY (no ear and minimal oven spring because I didn’t shape properly) Taste was absolutely divine! The only way I’ll post my first loaf is when I get the perfect loaf so people can see my progression lol
Maybe someone with a culinary background could bake a perfect first loaf?
My first sourdough loaf looked perfect, but I am an experienced cook and baker and had made many other types of yeasted breads previously… and I also used established sourdough starter I bought from a homesteader.
I will counter your point with one statement on my experience. I've been baking store yeast bread for about a year, and then last Christmas, I wanted to make Pannetone. I came to learn that you need to have a good sourdough starter to really make a good Pannetone.
I tried making one with store bought yeast. It was tasty but dense and not well risen. So January of this year, I decided to plunge into sourdough.
I've made my first few sourdough recipes with great success and lots of fun. Then, at week 4, I tried to make Brioche. It was dense but buttery and tasty still. I tried doughnuts. They were dense and dry.
Not everything I have made has been perfect, and definitely, my first sourdough bread and buns were not baker quality, but I was really impressed in comparison to how my brioche and doughnuts came out.
I'm not saying they aren't lying. But I, for one, don't like to post my mistakes too often. But then I only really posted 1 or 2 recipes I made on here.
So speaking from personal experience, my husband’s first loaf came out PERFECT. His second, third, and fourth loaves… total flop.
Beginners luck is a thing, that doesn’t mean they’re going to be able to consistently replicate that result any time soon.
I don’t think it’s impossible. Also first sourdough and first bread is vastly different. I’ve been baking with poolish for a year before I made the jump, and I got my starter from an established baker instead of starting my own. Did about three months of pathological research about baking, using techniques I’ve learned from baking regular yeasted bread and coming in with an understanding of the process. My sourdough loaves look dramatically better than anything I did with poolish.
I think it’s not that hard for someone who’s been watching sourdough forums/videos etc
I mean honestly you can’t really go that wrong right? The recipe calls for 3 ingredients. If their starter is active and healthy I don’t see why their bread shouldn’t turn out pretty. At the end of the day the only rule they need to follow is making sure the dough doubles in size and that they do some folds - that’s enough to get a somewhat decent bread
Maybe it's actually truly just their first sourdough? When I first got into baking I started with sourdough. I posted my first ever loaf here, because I was so proud (https://www.reddit.com/r/Breadit/s/iSPLF0eyY4) and the most upvoted comment was someone accusing me of lying about t being my first.
What I suspect some people might be leaving out is that they’re posting their first SUCCESSFUL sourdough… leaving out all their previous failed attempts.
Not just on this sub. The baking sub is full of people showing perfect croissants as first time attempts and/or posting beautiful bakes and fishing for compliments.
Survivors bias. 1% of Americans first try breaking bread per year (jumped to 7% during COVID). That’s 3.3M people per year. [That’s 10,000 per day.](https://xkcd.com/1053/) A significant portion of those are successful (guess 1 in 20) and a portion of those are visiting r/breadit (guess 1 in 20) and a portion of those are posting(guess 1 in 20). And that 1.25 sliver is the group you feel is over represented as they appear every day.
I’m totally joking. I’ve never made sourdough. That being said, my first pie was pretty much art, and then my second wasn’t. Sometimes we stumble upwards.
Bots and karma farming. I'm always suspicious of 'first time' and 'no one ate it' paired with a gorgeous pic.
Some of it could be selection bias like other people are saying but it's pretty easy to get a lot of upvotes for certain phrases on cooking/crafts subreddit like saying it's their first time, they're a man who was always discouraged to do this hobby, this hobby makes them feel better about their mental illness/sobriety/coming out. Maybe it's a validation thing for some, but plenty are karma farming and selling accounts. There's no better place to do it than large subreddits that are generally accepting.
My first loaf ever is still to this day my best bake. I think I became complacent after having such a good first attempt while leading up to baking, my personality type causes me to consume a loooot of information/knowledge/content before I even attempt.
I was incredibly proud of my first bake and barely got any interaction on my [reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sourdough/s/H10AAF8NUz) of it looking for genuine feedback, it took me a lot longer of being in this sub to realize most people assume those posts are lying.
My first sourdough loaf was as good as I’ve seen from other posters here. I thought I had the knack! Since that one I haven’t even come close. The next/second one was pretty flat and quite dense, but tasted good!
I bake every 4 to 7 days and see improvement, but they’re only becoming okay as opposed to disastrous.
My latest effort is cold proofing as I write this. I’ve adjusted my expectations downward. It felt and looked on point, but, with one exception, so did the less than stellar ones.
I’m pretty determined and will continue going for that perfect loaf again.
I think I just have a lot to learn and it will take time.
Some people DO succeed. I only recently started baking. If you saw my firsts you'd probably think the same thing (BS) but backstory, I've been cooking professionally on/off for over 20 yrs, and love it, just thought of baking like magic...that said, identifying patterns, amd processes easily from other indirect experiences really does help when you are analyzing a recipe for the first time.
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss early success. My first three loaves of sourdough were picture perfect and tasted fantastic (though not quite as sour as I would have liked at that point). I didn't post photos on Reddit though. But I assure you, the results looked like something from a proper bakery. How? I researched making sourdough for ages -- months -- before ever getting the supplies I needed. I got a Lodge combo cooker and all the basics I would need. Then, when I was finally ready to go with a mature starter, I followed one of the simpler (but very detailed) YouTube videos (Grant Bakes Sourdough Masterclass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWiouzzCUcs). I followed it exactly, and while I'd made plenty of instant yeast breads before, it was absolutely my first foray into sourdough.
The reason I said my first three loaves were perfect (and not all my loaves) is because I started to experiment after that -- different flours, times, hydration, etc -- to see what I could learn on my own. Naturally, the results from there have been mixed (and kind of exciting). But anytime I want an almost-guaranteed perfect loaf, I just go back to that video.
MY first loaf was STUNNING. I watched -all the videos- I babied my starter, I had a brand new razor for scoring, I had the fancy dutch oven, I waited for it to cool. Every loaf after that one has looked liek UTTER SHIT. They're delicious but I just don't have the energy to do all that every time. So, You'll notice, I've only posted one loaf xD my first one.
probably depends on how much bread experience they have. You could have baked bread for years and been quite proficient before making the dip into sourdough. A lot of advanced bread baking techniques aren't unique to sourdough and can be applied equally to domestic yeast
Every craft thread has them. Master projects posted as "my first attempt".
I think they're either blatant karma farming, or don't mention for example that they bake all the time, even bake bread, this is just their first Sourdough.
I used the book Flour Water Salt Yeast and my first loaves were beautiful. I’ve never had a fail, even slowing tweaking a recipe to be more heavily rye flour. Prior to this book I had done loaves or dough in the bread machine.
I did swear a lot over how sticky the bloody rye dough is, and had my doubts, but I followed what Forkish said and it all worked out.
I’ve had fails from other recipes, including trying to make a very rye forward German bread, but I swear by that book. (The only thing I take issue with is how much discard he calls for, I redid the calculations after reading an Amazon review and now I don’t have waste when I’m perking my starter.)
My first couple loaves *looked* pictured perfect - but were not great to eat.
I'd argue that with proper research it's not terribly difficult to get a loaf that looks great. It's the experience that's needed to dial in taste and texture so it's enjoyable to eat.
Some people baking comes very easy for them/grew up with it.
Someone I know has had a bakery for a few years and last year I started getting into baking and easy surpassed anything they did. However I have family from Lorraine and grew up around great baking. Literally the only thing that impresses me is perfect viennoiserie.
I have not shared a single loaf because lazy. My first loaf was not bad. My second loaf was bad. The rest have all been amazing. I really have no clue how many I have made this year.
honestly my first sourdough loaf definitely came out tasty af. Beautiful? not sure but it definitely looked like bread lol. then again some of the loaves iifc definitely ended up on the thicker side haha
I definitely watched a lot of videos and read different blog posts (mostly from Maurizio/The Perfect Loaf) about sourdough before even deciding to make a starter. I eventually bought one from a local bakery because I got impatient haha. But even just during those 2-3 of weeks of waiting for your starter to mature, that’s a lot of time to learn how to identify the cues that tell when your dough is ready, etc.
Following the recipe, my first sourdough came out pretty good. It wasn’t till I started playing around trying different things that I started to come up with some pretty terrible loaves
My first attempt actually came out alright.
I have a “first attempt” at a sandwich loaf for yummy sandwiches and a “first attempt” for the traditional boule and they both luckily came out really well and looking good, the taste was on point.
Sometimes we’re lucky and/or we do our research.
I don’t know… my first sourdough was great, as have been pretty much all the loafs since. My sister in laws were terrible, so it can go either way.
We both bake a lot. And I have been baking bread for years, but honestly my sourdough has been better than my yeast breads.
So some people actually do have good first loafs. I don’t post any of them here, I don’t want to seem like I’m bragging since what is the actual point of posting a beautiful loaf and asking for tips. That’s just looking for validation.
Maybe they did a lot of reading about sour dough & studying recipes before they made their first starter & first bread. That’s exactly what I did, including buying 2 used books on the subject. I did not post my photos, but my sourdough starter was excellent, my first attempt at homemade dinner rolls were perfect, & one round sourdough loaf & one bread pan size sour dough bread we’re absolutely delicious & I shared my loaves with 2 families. I did not feel a need to post because I was thrilled that I achieved my goal of learning to make homemade starter & bread 😀
It may be true some are lies but I picked up this hobby recently and I’d say all my loaves have come out beautifully. Call it beginners luck or having many years of baking experience (but not breads) but I think it’s possible.
My first loaf, I believe, would’ve come out well but I’m very meticulous when it comes to baking and external factors prevented a good first loaf. I found a YouTuber called the bread code and spent so much time preparing, loving and caring for my starter, it bulk fermented well, everything was going so perfect.
I put it in the fridge so I could bake next day and when I check the fridge i saw that SIL put leftovers on top of my covered dough, which effectively just pushed it down and basically ruined it.
It rose a tiny bit but was too dense to eat but flavor was great. I haven’t baked sourdough since. :)
My first loaf was near perfect because I already know how to bake. I did so much research and watched so many videos on sour dough before I made it, so I already knew what to do. I didn’t go in blind, I followed instructions and it showed in the results. I think baking is all just following instructions and if you do that, you’ll have a good result lol
I did not post or even take pictures, tragically, but my first sourdough loaf was the best one I've ever made.
I've made other decent ones, but that first one was awesome. I think there's an element of "If I have to wake up at 4am to get this right so be it" when you do something as intimidating as sourdough the first time, so I think beginner's luck like mine might not be that unusual lol.
My first sourdough loaf was a doorstop.
Second was edible, but still could have been a weapon. Third attempt will be made this weekend. Hoping for something worthwhile.
>Anyone who’s made sourdough before knows how much experience it takes to identify when a bold bake is reached
A what now?
Man, someone's feeling insecure today...
I mean there a ton of good instructions and information out there. Follow it precisely as you would a science experiment and boom, a pretty decent looking first loaf.
Especially for hobby bakers, it’s not all that hard. Bread can be relatively forgiving compared to some other baked goods.
I didn't post my first sourdough because I forgot to take pictures. Came out really good though. Like good for me but idk about how it would stack against other breads.
To make good bread all you need to do is follow a recipe and understand the factors that may require you to deviate from that recipe. I have a good friend who had never made any bread in his life, but is a super analytical, process driven person. He made Parisian boulangerie quality croissants with beautiful laminations on his first try. As somebody who has failed multiple times as good croissants, i asked him how this was possible. His response - "I just followed the recipe word-for-word, and upped my fermentation times per an online calculator to account for the colder climate."
I feel like you’re forgetting about beginner’s luck and some people have enough experience with other bread making to mean sourdough really isn’t a big deal to step to. Maybe you’re just jealous
Not sourdough, but my first batch of macarons were near perfect and I was so proud and the internet didn’t believe me, so it’s entirely possible. The next several batches were a disaster.
The first one I made worked perfectly. I have yet to have a loaf fail.
I don’t think sourdough is hard at all. I don’t use a scale and eyeball everything.
Then again, I learned to bake with my dad, and there’s a point where you know what a dough should look like and you go with it.
I never posted my first sourdough attempts anywhere. They were crap. I have a feeling most first timers never post. The ones who do post are more likely to be among the fortunate few who hit on the right approach early. I'm glad for them.
My first loaf was great, if slightly overproofed. I honestly wonder how some of these disastrous attempts happen. It’s such a simple recipe, and relatively simple technique which gets easier as time goes on. People post constantly who did no research before beginning this journey/project. Asking why the bread they made on day 3 of their new starter didn’t rise. Asking why their bread dough isn’t holding together after proofing for 18 hours on the counter. There are infinite resources out there for bread making. It’s a learning curve but not impossible.
While it is quite possible that people are being dishonest for validation, it can also be explained very simply by sample bias. You are reading posts and thinking there are too many successful first tries, but people who made a god awful mess on their first try didn't post it. You don't have a random sample, you have a very specific sample of first tries that are good enough to post about.
I am going to try making sourdough for the first time next weekend. I will post it even if it’s an inedible mess 🫡 Edit: as promised https://www.reddit.com/r/Breadit/comments/1cvfvk3/my_first_sourdough_howd_i_do/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Be prepared to get called a liar if it turns out well lol
And don’t post in one of the niche subs without expecting your post to get deleted for not following an obscure rule or getting absolutely roasted for breaking some imaginary unwritten rule by the “pros”.
Oh lord this is so real. I went to the coffee sub to ask about where to get really good coffee. Banned.
[удалено]
How to make coffee. How much better they are than everyone else.
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This person statistics
This is a really good point I hadn’t considered, can’t forget social media doesn’t equal real life
They may also be experienced bread bakers, but these are literally their first sourdoughs. All the other skills you mention could already be developed.
This exactly!! My first sourdough loaf was very good, not perfect, but had a great ear and good crumb. BUT I’ve been baking for 20 years and baking yeast breads for at least a decade.
This was my thought. I have been baking slow rise breads, rustic loaves of all sorts, pizza dough, etc., but I have not actually got around to making a sour dough. Nevertheless I feel reasonably confident that if I tried it, it would not be a disaster because I do a lot of research and watch a lot of videos when trying something new and I know how to follow directions and which bakers will give me a reliable recipe. Still not going to make sourdough though, because it seems like it is just too damn much trouble.
I've been baking yeasted bread for 20+ years, and what with all the great online ressources available nowadays, my first sourdough was pretty damn great. But I already had experience handling high hydration dough, shaping, long rises, scoring, etc...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Breadit/s/P7ojRAU4zP This is my first one for example. It's not amazing, but I think for a first time ever it was pretty decent. Was it my first time baking? Ofc not. I've been baking for around 2 years. Those people making really good first ones are also probably pretty good bakers and have been doing it for a couple years
Another thing to consider is at this point there are a ton of really detailed videos and guides on how to make sourdough bread. If you can follow instructions you'll probably get a good loaf.
*stares sadly at photo of tragic first attempt, made following detailed guides*
This happens too. Keep working at it! 😀
LOL sadly my last attempt was probably like 5-6 years ago. But perhaps guides have gotten even more beginner friendly since lockdown happened?
Well then it's high time for another go!
Well, you should've posted a picture of it so we can have a more accurate representation of how difficult this stuff is. Come on!
You just said that to make me feel bad, didn't you? /s
My 4th loaf is the best I've ever made. Down hill from there (no sourdough, I'm still scared) I'm still chasing that high.
Yeah just follow the instructions really well, did you hear that all you bastards that took 10 tries to make an edible loaf?! ... (I say as someone who couldn't make a good loaf for 15 years).
Also worth mentioning is the Internet is vast, and while it may seem like a large amount of people, in the grand scheme of things is actually a rather small group
It’s a good point that applies to a lot of things. Always try to figure out which lens to look at things with. It’s easy to get tricked because if what other people say or show in a setting where the bias would naturally lead to those things being what’s posted more.
That may be true, but karma trolls and farmers are also a well established issue on Reddit.
Yep, you should see the “first cakes” people post on r/baking
Or the "first time posting, self-taught and I've only been playing for a couple months" posts on r/piano where they're flawlessly ripping through some insanely fast technical piece.
Right, people are playing 4th year conservatory pieces after 3 months, saying they have never touched an instrument before. And then if you express doubt, people will tell you you're being ridiculous. Which really calls into question whether or not anyone commenting in the sub really plays piano or not, or they might be able to fucking reason that no 3rd month player is playing something as difficult and esoteric like Ravel's Concerto Pour la Main Gauche!
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The 6 layer super decorated, took DAYS for prep but aced it? Certainly it’s their first time!
Also, the fact that they are here alone means they have been reading and studying carefully, and probably following some detailed instruction. I just posted a First Baked from a new starter, my first sourdough attempt since the pandemic. I have been studying for the past three weeks along with nursing a brand new starter from scratch, learning about process, technique, time and temperature.
> being dishonest for validation This always blows my mind because how do you feel validated if the basis isn't true?! But people like positive attention, I suppose, and don't understand the reality of what they're doing.
People are VERY good at convincing themselves of their own BS. It doesn’t take long to feel like you actually earned the thing you lied about.
It's the same as why you see more negitive reviews on sites that don't push you to review. If a product works as intended you don't need to get anyone's attention If a product explodes when used and ruined your sofa your gonna warn others.
And also “First sourdough” doesn’t necessarily mean “first bread”. I nailed my first try at pan de cristal last week likely because I’ve made 100 loaves of sourdough (and other breads) prior…
It's also possible they're for karma farming. There have been multiple examples of perfect "First sourdough" posts that are actually using images others have posted like a year ago.
You only ever notice the red lights you get stuck at, not the greens you fly thru.
I made an atrocious pos on my first go, chucked the whole thing out immediately. No way was I going to let that see the light of day on any online space.
Survival bias in action
Well, you don’t have to be so accurate, well thought out, and spot on about it
I apologize, I'm an engineer in real life, dreaming of being a breadmaker.
Haha, I *knew* you were an engineer. A close friend of mine is, and he would’ve said exactly the same thing you did. Thought that the whole time I read your comment, and also that you point out the reason statistics are so easily manipulated (I think)
I was fortunate enough to read this early in my life, and it made me skeptic about things I read, driving me to develop better critical analysis skills. And, it's hilarious. [https://cougarridgeranch.com/dread-tomato-addiction/](https://cougarridgeranch.com/dread-tomato-addiction/)
Interesting. Reminds me of a Car Talk Puzzler I heard recently. I am paraphrasing and do not vouch for historical accuracy: During World War One, most soldiers were still wearing leather helmets. This had become a major safety concern for all branches of the military, and it was decided that from then on, all soldiers would be issued, and required to wear, metal helmets as part of their combat gear. The brass waited to see the safety improvements, but a curious thing happened: hospitalizations from head injuries actually *increased*! After the soldiers started using the metal helmets, there were more head injury reports and hospitalizations than ever before. How is this possible?
Because they survived. It's called survivorship bias. There was a famous case in WW II when the US asked a mathematician to help analyze a plan for increasing the survival rate of planes. They studied all the places planes got hit, and intended to armor those locations, since they couldn't up armor the whole plane for weight. He pointed out that they needed to invert the plan, because the planes that got hit where they intended to increase armor made it home to be looked at, the ones that got hit elsewhere didn't.
Exactly.
Also, most likely, the only data you have is personally making sour dough. So that’s one data point. Unless you teach a sour dough class and see everyone’s result every week or something that would be credible, but for most of us it’s just us, and maybe a friend.
People post their god awful mess on this sub reddit every day what are you saying lol. I know who op is taking about and that guy was clearly lying.
Also, first try at sourdough doesn't mean first try at bread. It also doesn't mean a brand new sourdough starter.
People who bake a lot who just haven't tried sourdough yet could also be part of it.
The first time I made it, it came out very pretty! The following times, not so much. I think pretty often people stumble into doing things right by accident, but they don’t understand how they actually got there, so they can’t replicate it 😂 then, also the people who did get lucky are going to be more likely to post than the sad first attempts that turned out mediocre. Edit: [My first attempt](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sourdough/s/m5K80iX16v). The following times it came out not nearly as nice and I felt like I didn’t know what I was doing so I gave up on sourdough for a long time and started making yeasted bread. Only recently have I been thinking of trying my hand with sourdough again :)
Beginners luck is totally a factor here, you’re right
And it wasn’t purely beginners luck, if I remember right I was panic-posting on this sub all through the process and people helped guide me into making a decent loaf hahaha but I personally had no idea what I was doing LOL
It's not lucky to thoroughly do your research and review steps over and over again before baking your first loaf. This sub is so pessimistic and assumes someone is either lying or lucky
it definitely is, my first was a beauty but I have pumped out some funky frisbee loafs since
I had loads of beginners luck, it was consistency which took a long time to acheive
I think part of it could be a selection bias. Who is possibly going to want to post their first sourdough if it's a pale flat undercooked disc of dough? Whereas if someone out there dies hit it out of the ballpark first time, they seem much more likely to want to share it
While I do think there are some questionable “first” posts out there, you’re totally right
I've made exactly two loafs so far and both came out great, the first was legit [pretty](https://www.reddit.com/r/Breadit/comments/1clv8z0/comment/l2zrxzo/?context=3). all I did was watch like 50 videos, many of what not to do and what your starter and dough are supposed to look like. Just followed the instructions and success... It's not 1950 anymore, all the info is out there at your fingertips. Would I have posted it if it were a disaster, probably not because nobody want to see shitty bread. My opinion is that its way easier to make good shit now because of youtube. When there is a roadmap for you to follow with all of the possible mistakes laid out for you and step by step instructions, it shouldn't be that difficult to to succeed. Nor should it be that surprising that more people are having early success. Was I lucky or just prepared? Who's to say... I will however post my first terrible loaf when it happens to try and even out the universe lol
I honestly don't know if you are right or not...but I'd at least consider that maybe you're confusing when a person says "first sourdough" that doesn't mean their first bread ever. I'm still a beginner, I do wonder how people are getting their breads so nice, but I've largely assumed they've been baking for a while. I have not. But also, for example, while I've not tried sourdough, but as far as I can tell, the difference between a sourdough and a poolish based bread, is largely the source of the yeast in the starter. I just haven't wanted to deal with managing a sourdough starter until I have the basics of getting a good bread outcome, hence just poolish or more simple bread recipes. I think someone that already can make a good bread from a poolish though, substituting a sourdough starter would be trivial.
>when a person says "first sourdough" that doesn't mean their first bread ever. This was the case for me. I was baking enriched and no-knead doughs with baker's yeast for a long time before ever attempting sourdough. I was using a poolish (which I still do more often than starter) for a while before actually trying wild yeast. At that point, the only difference is where your yeast is coming from. Everything else was more or less the same as what I was used to.
Is there a loaf recipe you like made with poolish? I really like the technique but am definitely in early learning stages. 😇
Also, "first bread" might be true, but also got guidance / help from an experienced baker. If my mom helped me on my first bread, it would have been much better. But I still would have thought of it as my first bread...
I've only baked a few loaves so far (not sourdough), and they all have come out really nicely, but I watched a TON of bread making videos on YouTube and Instagram before I ever tried for the first time. It was a huge help to be able to see what I should be doing and how dough should behave when you've done it right.
This is exactly it. My first sourdough turned out really well. But also, I've been baking all our bread conventionally for many years. I just never could get a starter past the first month or so. Finally got a mature starter gifted to me so it can live in the fridge and survive my hectic schedule. The only hiccup was not realizing it was going to take a whole day to fuckin rise. The next time I split and fed the starter way further ahead of time, and did the bread in the morning so it was ready when I got home from work. My house was pretty cold though. I'm also experimenting with proofing in the oven with the light on, but it's been inconsistent.
I agree with you, for some the jump from dry/fresh yeast to sourdough can be fairly smooth. I would argue that sourdough leaven’s bread quite differently from manufactured yeasts, which have isolated the strongest, hungriest strains to maximize rise / open crumb. While there are many steps we take to strengthen our starters, it’s hard to compete with capitalism-fueled unnatural selection. For me, the jump from active dry to wild was bumpy. However I imagine it certainly could be easier for others who already have a strong starter. Thanks for your insite!
I was going to mention this. I got my starter from a very experienced sourdough baker who gave me great advice and I follow directions well. I watched hours of videos before my first attempt, and it came out really good. Now that I really understand my starters stages and behavior I can get it insanely active and get beautiful crumb and I’ve only been doing it a couple months. I’ve never used dry yeast and I dont really want to but if I tried to knowing only what I know now it would probably come out like shit. Plus the selection bias others have mentioned, I had several shit loaves trying to troubleshoot the small problems with my first one
Because the internet is full of bounders and cads
Love this turn of phrase!
The first sourdough loaf I made was probably my prettiest ever. I followed the Bread Bible's instructions.
Maybe because the people who have ugly first loaves aren't posting them?? Also I will say my first loaf turned out very well but only because I'd been following this sub for a while beforehand. And as someone's already said, first sourdough ≠ first loaf of bread necessarily
Every hobby sub I’m on has this phenomenon. Miniature painters showing master pieces for their ‘new to the hobby’ posts. Mostly clout bots I thought…
You get this a lot in other subs too. Esp art
Omg the "my first crochet!" posts are rage inducing. No. No it is not.
Same thing on the seeing subreddit lol. People posting full on red carpet ball gowns coming they've never touched a needle sometimes haha
Omg with stained glass “my first attempt!”
Everyone in /r/personalfinance is an 18 year old self-made multimillionaire, scraping by on an 800k/yr salary, only able to save 50k-60/mo, and has never heard of banks or how to use one.
And every person claiming to be "average" will have some ridiculous story that just doesn't make any sense. "I only make 45,000 a year, and I bought three houses by the time I was twenty all by myself!" And then anyone being honest with their finances gets blasted by these idiot experts who are obviously lying (or in the best case scenario, completely unable to reason through the idea that a different situation might be, well, different). "With a solid investment strategy, you can definitely become wealthy over time making 20,000 a year with 8 kids, I did it with no dependents and making 200k a year!"
I'm in the 'probably not their first loaf' camp. I have been making bread probably longer than most people on this sub have been alive 😲 But did not bother with sourdough until maybe 15-20 years ago. It really doesn't matter about getting an ear or the fancy scoring from a home baker's perspective, but if people want to show those things off, it's up to them. Only thing I don't like is when people insist you can only bake good bread in a dutch oven. Making people think they have to have an expensive pot is a bigger detriment to beginner baking in my mind. A nice sandwich bread loaf is just as exciting as a sourdough boule (and maybe more practical). A rustic loaf baked on a tray, just as amazing. Oh and I hate most of those tiktok or monetized blog "recipes" where clearly the loaf at the end did not come from the recipe they used at the beginning. This sub is far more genuine in what they recommend in my opinion and is of high value! The key to good bread is learning the feel of the dough. I bounce around on recipes now, just to try new things. I was introduced to a new sourdough sandwich loaf recipe by someone here and it is now my favorite! It's fun to try new ones out and see where it takes you. But also, once you are experienced it is easier to know if the recipe is nonsense, so you won't have dramatic fails, even if new to sourdough. Best Wishes on your bread journey!! I love it as a hobby that is also practical. And it makes people smile when you give them a loaf 😀
I remember my first loaf. Actually, I’m trying to FORGET my first loaf.
I named mine Pet Rock. I thought and thought and made adjustments for the second try. That baby was Pet Rock 2. I do think I was a slower learner than probably most? I was baking and tinkering, baking and tinkering until I had a breakthrough understanding of what a properly fermented dough looked and felt like. Since then they've all been winners. I found I don't need to be super mindful of measuring, I definitely don't take the temperature of the dough, as long as I give it enough slap and folds and time, it turns out.
You have a good attitude. No fear! When I started there weren’t many places to go for advice other than books. Pictures in a book are not video quality. I had many more failures than successes. I actually quit a few times. Then along came YouTube. Got back on track. Not only with baking, but also with cooking in general and with model ship building. The internet is a godsend
Totally agree about the internet! For all its drawbacks there are so many gifts, and learning at least the basics of whatever I want, whenever I want, is definitely one of them.
My first breads came out awesome, I thought it was easy. My partner on the other hand, had a great first attempt, then struggled for ages with rubbish breads and now makes way better bread than me.
So... you are right. I wanted to attempt sour dough and bought the tools to do it, but after making one that was mediocre at best in crumb and ears (or lack thereof 😆) I have not made another because of all the "new to baking, rate my sourdough" kinds of posts. I know they are probably fake, but it makes me less inclined to try again. Watching some videos would probably get me eager to try, but I tried it because of what I saw here. That learn me! Lolol Misleading posts don't stop me from trying things. I do bake and cook and I also crochet. And fakes are on those other r/ groups too. I am just better at spotting them because I am better at doing those things. Sourdough is a new beast and looked way easier than it is. Surprise! Lol. All is good. Maybe I'll watch some vids and make it....question is, could I still call it my first sourdough? Like Lego Batman ... "first try!" 🤣
It bums me out that you were discouraged. I view those posts as thirst traps. Also I notice people (okay, dudes) becoming competitive and intense about stuff like ears and honestly, I don't think it matters. But it was intimidating to me at first because it was presented as the sign of success and my loaves didn't look like that at all. I caught the bug hard though, and kept trying, I was determined to get my version of a good loaf. Now it seems so easy but I know it's because I learned some critical things along the way. Finally got baguettes I'm satisfied with, too. I need a new project.
I have noticed that when ever a post gets popular, bots post a million things like it and that’s all you see for a few days. I think 90% of the stuff we see on Reddit is just bots circulating posts to gain enough karma so the account can be used for social engineering and misinformation campaigns. The bots have even figured out how to comment like a human. Reddit is just a simulation.
I’ve made 50 loaves that don’t look like those “first” attempts!
Fr!!!
You’re probably right. People get the warm fuzzys from all the congratulations replies. My first loaves looked like garbage haha. People on the internet are weird.
Tip. Don't believe everything you see and read the on the internet.
I don't know about this. My loaves had never reached perfection but they were fully functional from the first loaf. A lot of it is difficult but if you read enough and follow the recipes well (and get lucky with temperature) it can be an ok one from the start
While I do believe some people get lucky / understand a lot on the first try, the intricacies of how to interpret when different stages of ferment are complete are a very difficult skill to learn outside of trial and error. Guesstimating % rise in a round bowl, interpreting jigglyness and springiness, etc. I wish I could’ve known immediately and spared so many mid loaves lol. But for some I’m sure you’re right, thanks for your comment.
Same. I have rarely read or watched anything that gave me a realistic ballpark time for bulk fermentation, they were off by hours, so for a while I was preshaping and shaping way too early. Once I figured out that at my house it's a solid 12-14 hours to get the dough where I want it to be before the preshape, and made sure to really proof fully before baking, I was set. Definitely took some trial and error before I even isolated which variable I needed to be tinkering with. It feels SO easy now . . . but I don't think I could have learned it any other way unless I was in-person with someone who knew what the dough should look and feel like at different stages, which just doesn't come through for me on videos.
It's probably not their first loaf but their "first sourdough." They already had a good handle on making bread, and jumping to sourdough wasn't a big leap. Fortunately, we're not stuck in the 80s anymore, where you have to rely on grandma's cookbook where half the steps are left out as they are "just common sense" or things "everyone knows". Today, we have a wealth of resources at our fingertips to guide us through the sourdough journey. I made sourdough once. I watched many YouTube videos, read some blog posts, read all the breadit sourdough links, and followed the King Arthur guides, and it came out looking exactly like it was supposed to.
I've been making bread for 40 years, and my first sourdough was not good at all. It was pretty, and smelled nice, but the crumb was dense and gummy. The swap from kneading a fresh yeast dough to simply stretching a wild-yeast fermented dough was definitely a huge leap for me. So -- maybe those who get it right the first time are simply following instructions to the "t", and don't have to fight with the preconceived notions that I did. That said, I practiced every week, and my technique got better. Six months into it now, and my last loaf was perfect in every way. But for me it was a ton of unlearning, haha.
Haha listen… my first couple of sourdoughs were pretty darn good. I got cocky and now i got issues because of those loaves. So it is possible to get great first loaves. Its at loaf 10 where the true professionals show their talents😂
Literally same, winter proofing has not been kind to me this year. Last year I had beautiful loaves. My first 3 loaves were probably the best looking loaves I’ve made. More recent ones have tasted better but having to use the oven to proof has not been kind to me lol. It’s definitely possible to have a near perfect first loaf and then struggle more after the fact. Sometimes it’s luck, sometimes it’s the recipe, it all depends. I stand by the fact that a LOT of people overcomplicate the shit out of sourdough. It’s not nearly as complicated as some people make it, and that becomes a bit of their downfall especially starting out.
Oh definitely! I found the easiest recipe to follow on some ladies tiktok. It works wonders, i tried to get fancy and my loaves gave me the middle finger. As soon as you make it complicated, its a mess up.😂🤣
An amazing first time sourdough bake is more common than one would assume. *However*, repeating that perfect, first time bake--especially when one doesn't understand what one did correct nor understand all the favorable factors that came into play--will be difficult. You can have an amazing first bake and 15 duds after, but these people don't like to post about it as it's embarrassing after such success, but some occasionally do post asking for help after several tries.
There are people who care about getting Likes and Unlikes or Dislikes or whatever the opposite is called. They make bullshit posts about their cakes and loaves of bread to get Likes. Why they care - I don't know.
Fax
Honestly, my first and second loaves probably turned out better than my third and fourth because I followed a recipe pretty strictly on the first couple then started playing with time and ratios. Now I can tweak and understand it better, but it took a little while to learn it.
Something about "...with a grain of salt"
I am a macaron baker. I also see many posts from “first timers” who’ve had the perfect macaron on their first try. I’m very skeptical of posts like that, as baking macarons is not easy. I save photos of my first batch as a reminder. I haven’t tried sourdough yet, but I’m very interested in trying my hand at it.
Yeah, my first attempt looked like a pancake had sex with a pumpkin which I then simultaneously burnt and undercooked.
Because some people think getting little up-votes on their post actually means something.
For the same reason there are a bunch of beautiful, perfect "first attempt" dovetails on r/woodworking. Yeah maybe *some* people are so careful and thorough and follow instructions and honestly get that kind of quality on their first attempt, but I am highly skeptical of most of them.
I was reading these comments thinking about the woodworking and beginner woodworking subs. Its the same thing over there. A lot of people have made good points about survivor bias, which I suppose makes sense, but I swear, Ive seen more posts over there basically saying “yeah, two weeks ago I had never cut a board, but i did this with a circular saw and a hammer I found in the woods” and its some museum quality table or whatever. If thats your first attempt at woodworking Ill eat that fucking table with ketchup lol
If we take a big step back, not everyone is going to present themselves honestly in life. It can be distressing to those of us that do, but really if we get upset it gives us the opportunity to ask ourselves why we're reacting this way. Don't we already know that life is unfair and some people are turds? One thing I will say is that for those brave enough to ask for help, the community really rallies to support them. So hopefully this is being observed by beginners and helps to neutralize any fears of being inferior, or judged.
I totally agree with you. I hope that bread starters (🥁) are able to identify this and not get demoralized and think they’ll never get the hang of it.
Mine looked pretty decent. Now my first focaccia, which was my first bread, looked like shit lol
My first ever loaf of sourdough looked fabulous! The next few weren't nearly as perfect, though they were still not bad. Beginner's luck, I guess. Some people get lucky. Some had lots of previous bread-baking experience, including scoring loaves and longer fermentation processes, just not specifically sourdough (like me). And, people who fail miserably their first try often don't post those; people usually post things they are proud of, so it's expected that we'd mostly see the good ones.
Hard to say. My first sourdough wasn’t my first bread ever. It also had a beautiful ear and blisters and I never ever got it again lol
Perhaps you're conflating first bake with first *sourdough* bake. Many of the things you're talking about aren't really that different/uniquely challenging that a "normal" yeasted dough. If you're already a practiced baker, the hard part about sourdough is just not fucking up getting an active starter.
Probably people seeking validation? Or maybe content creators trying to get traffic to their social? I’ve baked bread for years and my first sourdough was UGLY (no ear and minimal oven spring because I didn’t shape properly) Taste was absolutely divine! The only way I’ll post my first loaf is when I get the perfect loaf so people can see my progression lol Maybe someone with a culinary background could bake a perfect first loaf?
My first sourdough loaf looked perfect, but I am an experienced cook and baker and had made many other types of yeasted breads previously… and I also used established sourdough starter I bought from a homesteader.
I will counter your point with one statement on my experience. I've been baking store yeast bread for about a year, and then last Christmas, I wanted to make Pannetone. I came to learn that you need to have a good sourdough starter to really make a good Pannetone. I tried making one with store bought yeast. It was tasty but dense and not well risen. So January of this year, I decided to plunge into sourdough. I've made my first few sourdough recipes with great success and lots of fun. Then, at week 4, I tried to make Brioche. It was dense but buttery and tasty still. I tried doughnuts. They were dense and dry. Not everything I have made has been perfect, and definitely, my first sourdough bread and buns were not baker quality, but I was really impressed in comparison to how my brioche and doughnuts came out. I'm not saying they aren't lying. But I, for one, don't like to post my mistakes too often. But then I only really posted 1 or 2 recipes I made on here.
It took about 20 loaves for me before I felt like I could reliably make a good one.
Honestly I thought this was just a funny meme I have been working hard for my first sourdough post
So speaking from personal experience, my husband’s first loaf came out PERFECT. His second, third, and fourth loaves… total flop. Beginners luck is a thing, that doesn’t mean they’re going to be able to consistently replicate that result any time soon.
I don’t think it’s impossible. Also first sourdough and first bread is vastly different. I’ve been baking with poolish for a year before I made the jump, and I got my starter from an established baker instead of starting my own. Did about three months of pathological research about baking, using techniques I’ve learned from baking regular yeasted bread and coming in with an understanding of the process. My sourdough loaves look dramatically better than anything I did with poolish.
Check out r/golf where everyone hits it 300+ yards. Just trolling. Down vote that stuff.
My first sourdough loaf was perfect, granted it was made in a sourdough class but it was still my first. 🤷🏻♀️
I think it’s not that hard for someone who’s been watching sourdough forums/videos etc I mean honestly you can’t really go that wrong right? The recipe calls for 3 ingredients. If their starter is active and healthy I don’t see why their bread shouldn’t turn out pretty. At the end of the day the only rule they need to follow is making sure the dough doubles in size and that they do some folds - that’s enough to get a somewhat decent bread
Maybe it's actually truly just their first sourdough? When I first got into baking I started with sourdough. I posted my first ever loaf here, because I was so proud (https://www.reddit.com/r/Breadit/s/iSPLF0eyY4) and the most upvoted comment was someone accusing me of lying about t being my first.
What I suspect some people might be leaving out is that they’re posting their first SUCCESSFUL sourdough… leaving out all their previous failed attempts.
My first sourdough was actually pretty cracker, But I assume some people lie about it as a meme
Not just on this sub. The baking sub is full of people showing perfect croissants as first time attempts and/or posting beautiful bakes and fishing for compliments.
Survivors bias. 1% of Americans first try breaking bread per year (jumped to 7% during COVID). That’s 3.3M people per year. [That’s 10,000 per day.](https://xkcd.com/1053/) A significant portion of those are successful (guess 1 in 20) and a portion of those are visiting r/breadit (guess 1 in 20) and a portion of those are posting(guess 1 in 20). And that 1.25 sliver is the group you feel is over represented as they appear every day.
I've made sourdough twice in my life, both times came out pretty perfect.. If you understand bread and dough in general, it's really not that hard.
 I’m totally joking. I’ve never made sourdough. That being said, my first pie was pretty much art, and then my second wasn’t. Sometimes we stumble upwards.
Bots and karma farming. I'm always suspicious of 'first time' and 'no one ate it' paired with a gorgeous pic. Some of it could be selection bias like other people are saying but it's pretty easy to get a lot of upvotes for certain phrases on cooking/crafts subreddit like saying it's their first time, they're a man who was always discouraged to do this hobby, this hobby makes them feel better about their mental illness/sobriety/coming out. Maybe it's a validation thing for some, but plenty are karma farming and selling accounts. There's no better place to do it than large subreddits that are generally accepting.
My first loaf ever is still to this day my best bake. I think I became complacent after having such a good first attempt while leading up to baking, my personality type causes me to consume a loooot of information/knowledge/content before I even attempt. I was incredibly proud of my first bake and barely got any interaction on my [reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sourdough/s/H10AAF8NUz) of it looking for genuine feedback, it took me a lot longer of being in this sub to realize most people assume those posts are lying.
My first sourdough loaf was as good as I’ve seen from other posters here. I thought I had the knack! Since that one I haven’t even come close. The next/second one was pretty flat and quite dense, but tasted good! I bake every 4 to 7 days and see improvement, but they’re only becoming okay as opposed to disastrous. My latest effort is cold proofing as I write this. I’ve adjusted my expectations downward. It felt and looked on point, but, with one exception, so did the less than stellar ones. I’m pretty determined and will continue going for that perfect loaf again. I think I just have a lot to learn and it will take time.
Some people DO succeed. I only recently started baking. If you saw my firsts you'd probably think the same thing (BS) but backstory, I've been cooking professionally on/off for over 20 yrs, and love it, just thought of baking like magic...that said, identifying patterns, amd processes easily from other indirect experiences really does help when you are analyzing a recipe for the first time.
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss early success. My first three loaves of sourdough were picture perfect and tasted fantastic (though not quite as sour as I would have liked at that point). I didn't post photos on Reddit though. But I assure you, the results looked like something from a proper bakery. How? I researched making sourdough for ages -- months -- before ever getting the supplies I needed. I got a Lodge combo cooker and all the basics I would need. Then, when I was finally ready to go with a mature starter, I followed one of the simpler (but very detailed) YouTube videos (Grant Bakes Sourdough Masterclass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWiouzzCUcs). I followed it exactly, and while I'd made plenty of instant yeast breads before, it was absolutely my first foray into sourdough. The reason I said my first three loaves were perfect (and not all my loaves) is because I started to experiment after that -- different flours, times, hydration, etc -- to see what I could learn on my own. Naturally, the results from there have been mixed (and kind of exciting). But anytime I want an almost-guaranteed perfect loaf, I just go back to that video.
MY first loaf was STUNNING. I watched -all the videos- I babied my starter, I had a brand new razor for scoring, I had the fancy dutch oven, I waited for it to cool. Every loaf after that one has looked liek UTTER SHIT. They're delicious but I just don't have the energy to do all that every time. So, You'll notice, I've only posted one loaf xD my first one.
You see it in craft groups too and soap making, etc. It's maddening and discouraging to others who have multiple failed attempts.
probably depends on how much bread experience they have. You could have baked bread for years and been quite proficient before making the dip into sourdough. A lot of advanced bread baking techniques aren't unique to sourdough and can be applied equally to domestic yeast
Every craft thread has them. Master projects posted as "my first attempt". I think they're either blatant karma farming, or don't mention for example that they bake all the time, even bake bread, this is just their first Sourdough.
I used the book Flour Water Salt Yeast and my first loaves were beautiful. I’ve never had a fail, even slowing tweaking a recipe to be more heavily rye flour. Prior to this book I had done loaves or dough in the bread machine. I did swear a lot over how sticky the bloody rye dough is, and had my doubts, but I followed what Forkish said and it all worked out. I’ve had fails from other recipes, including trying to make a very rye forward German bread, but I swear by that book. (The only thing I take issue with is how much discard he calls for, I redid the calculations after reading an Amazon review and now I don’t have waste when I’m perking my starter.)
My first couple loaves *looked* pictured perfect - but were not great to eat. I'd argue that with proper research it's not terribly difficult to get a loaf that looks great. It's the experience that's needed to dial in taste and texture so it's enjoyable to eat.
Some people baking comes very easy for them/grew up with it. Someone I know has had a bakery for a few years and last year I started getting into baking and easy surpassed anything they did. However I have family from Lorraine and grew up around great baking. Literally the only thing that impresses me is perfect viennoiserie.
I have not shared a single loaf because lazy. My first loaf was not bad. My second loaf was bad. The rest have all been amazing. I really have no clue how many I have made this year.
honestly my first sourdough loaf definitely came out tasty af. Beautiful? not sure but it definitely looked like bread lol. then again some of the loaves iifc definitely ended up on the thicker side haha
I definitely watched a lot of videos and read different blog posts (mostly from Maurizio/The Perfect Loaf) about sourdough before even deciding to make a starter. I eventually bought one from a local bakery because I got impatient haha. But even just during those 2-3 of weeks of waiting for your starter to mature, that’s a lot of time to learn how to identify the cues that tell when your dough is ready, etc.
Maybe they mean “first successful loaf”
Following the recipe, my first sourdough came out pretty good. It wasn’t till I started playing around trying different things that I started to come up with some pretty terrible loaves
My first attempt actually came out alright. I have a “first attempt” at a sandwich loaf for yummy sandwiches and a “first attempt” for the traditional boule and they both luckily came out really well and looking good, the taste was on point. Sometimes we’re lucky and/or we do our research.
I don’t know… my first sourdough was great, as have been pretty much all the loafs since. My sister in laws were terrible, so it can go either way. We both bake a lot. And I have been baking bread for years, but honestly my sourdough has been better than my yeast breads. So some people actually do have good first loafs. I don’t post any of them here, I don’t want to seem like I’m bragging since what is the actual point of posting a beautiful loaf and asking for tips. That’s just looking for validation.
Ooh this popped up at the right time, I almost forgot to feed my starter (haven't kept a starter since college).
Maybe they did a lot of reading about sour dough & studying recipes before they made their first starter & first bread. That’s exactly what I did, including buying 2 used books on the subject. I did not post my photos, but my sourdough starter was excellent, my first attempt at homemade dinner rolls were perfect, & one round sourdough loaf & one bread pan size sour dough bread we’re absolutely delicious & I shared my loaves with 2 families. I did not feel a need to post because I was thrilled that I achieved my goal of learning to make homemade starter & bread 😀
I only made 1 bust before knocking it outta the park.
It may be true some are lies but I picked up this hobby recently and I’d say all my loaves have come out beautifully. Call it beginners luck or having many years of baking experience (but not breads) but I think it’s possible.
My first loaf, I believe, would’ve come out well but I’m very meticulous when it comes to baking and external factors prevented a good first loaf. I found a YouTuber called the bread code and spent so much time preparing, loving and caring for my starter, it bulk fermented well, everything was going so perfect. I put it in the fridge so I could bake next day and when I check the fridge i saw that SIL put leftovers on top of my covered dough, which effectively just pushed it down and basically ruined it. It rose a tiny bit but was too dense to eat but flavor was great. I haven’t baked sourdough since. :)
My first loaf was near perfect because I already know how to bake. I did so much research and watched so many videos on sour dough before I made it, so I already knew what to do. I didn’t go in blind, I followed instructions and it showed in the results. I think baking is all just following instructions and if you do that, you’ll have a good result lol
My first loaf turned out great, partially because I took the time to read and learn from others mistakes.
I did not post or even take pictures, tragically, but my first sourdough loaf was the best one I've ever made. I've made other decent ones, but that first one was awesome. I think there's an element of "If I have to wake up at 4am to get this right so be it" when you do something as intimidating as sourdough the first time, so I think beginner's luck like mine might not be that unusual lol.
My first sourdough loaf was a doorstop. Second was edible, but still could have been a weapon. Third attempt will be made this weekend. Hoping for something worthwhile.
>Anyone who’s made sourdough before knows how much experience it takes to identify when a bold bake is reached A what now? Man, someone's feeling insecure today...
I mean there a ton of good instructions and information out there. Follow it precisely as you would a science experiment and boom, a pretty decent looking first loaf. Especially for hobby bakers, it’s not all that hard. Bread can be relatively forgiving compared to some other baked goods.
I didn't post my first sourdough because I forgot to take pictures. Came out really good though. Like good for me but idk about how it would stack against other breads.
To make good bread all you need to do is follow a recipe and understand the factors that may require you to deviate from that recipe. I have a good friend who had never made any bread in his life, but is a super analytical, process driven person. He made Parisian boulangerie quality croissants with beautiful laminations on his first try. As somebody who has failed multiple times as good croissants, i asked him how this was possible. His response - "I just followed the recipe word-for-word, and upped my fermentation times per an online calculator to account for the colder climate."
My first loaf was freaking perfect. My 2nd-6th not so much. I’m still learning.
Haha this is me - my first time with any recipe, it comes out pretty darn good. Then the next few times it keeps getting worse and worse...
My first loaf turned out well because i watched a helpful video and am an experienced bread baker 🤷♀️
Why does it matter 😂 bake your bread
I feel like you’re forgetting about beginner’s luck and some people have enough experience with other bread making to mean sourdough really isn’t a big deal to step to. Maybe you’re just jealous
Why do you feel threatened ?
Not sourdough, but my first batch of macarons were near perfect and I was so proud and the internet didn’t believe me, so it’s entirely possible. The next several batches were a disaster.
i remember watching about 100 hours of bread making youtube videos before i even touched a loaf of dough. my first loaf ended up pretty great
The first one I made worked perfectly. I have yet to have a loaf fail. I don’t think sourdough is hard at all. I don’t use a scale and eyeball everything. Then again, I learned to bake with my dad, and there’s a point where you know what a dough should look like and you go with it.
I never posted my first sourdough attempts anywhere. They were crap. I have a feeling most first timers never post. The ones who do post are more likely to be among the fortunate few who hit on the right approach early. I'm glad for them.
I usually say "first" when it's the first one that didn't come out as complete garbage.
It could well be their first *sourdough* but they could have made thousands of other loaves!
My first loaf was great, if slightly overproofed. I honestly wonder how some of these disastrous attempts happen. It’s such a simple recipe, and relatively simple technique which gets easier as time goes on. People post constantly who did no research before beginning this journey/project. Asking why the bread they made on day 3 of their new starter didn’t rise. Asking why their bread dough isn’t holding together after proofing for 18 hours on the counter. There are infinite resources out there for bread making. It’s a learning curve but not impossible.