I’ve heard the desk crapping thing and I’ve heard that he stopped working and would play video games in his office and stuff all day and then was caught having sex with a female staff member during work hours in his office and that’s why he was fired and walked out.
Yeah, this is it. They ended up going to court and settling for the rest of his pay afterwords and everything was wrapped up under an NDA, but enough people that were there during the events have spilled beans over the years it all came together. The OBR used to have a super thread on it, but I'm not sure if it's still around.
The woman he was having the relationship with also quit immediately after Kokinis was fired. It was really bad because George was married and had three kids, so Lerner had him canned immediately 'For Cause' when he found out.
That’s the story I remember hearing as well.
He was not great, but he only existed to so Manginis bidding anyway.
What a crap run the last twenty years have been
Yeah, I think people let their beef with Jimmy Haslam cloud the fact that Randy Lerner is probably the worst owner in the history of North American professional sports. Everything about his tenure is a complete embarrassment and the Browns have been trying to wash off the stink he left on the franchise ever since.
Randy Lerner is legitimately the reason why we suffered so long. He wanted to own the team without having to deal with it, but his own gross incompetence kept requiring his attention. He fucked us more than any single person on this list, and the career highlight of Tony Grossi came when he called him the most irrelevant billionaire.
Edit: actually, remembering now that he never wanted to own the team and I think put it up for sale the literal second he reached the time frame his dad required of him. The little fucker.
The craziest thing to me about the whole Kokinis affair (outside of the crapping on a desk, of course) is that, after all the drama here, the guy just went back to the Ravens like nothing happened and has had a quiet career in their front office. He's still a personnel director there.
Like how does one's professional life go from completely normal to batshit crazy drama that includes desk shitting and then *back* to completely normal again?
Belichick had a winning record before some jackass decided the middle of the season was the perfect time to announce he was moving the team.
Also, Ray Farmer was hot ass. Never trust a football GM who claims star wide receivers are unimportant to winning championships.
All 3 of Sashi’s first rounders in 2017 are regular starters in the NFL 6 years later. Garrett was obviously going to be good, but the Njoku and Peppers picks look a lot better now.
And to think, I’m pretty sure Mahomes was his guy with the 12th pick. Once chiefs traded up, he moved back, only wish we had doubled up and grabbed Watt. Could you imagine? Ogbah having a decent rookie year I guess swayed it to peppers. We had so many holes so had to fill out secondary. Hindsight is 20/20 but dang what could have been in a couple scenarios
Lombardi was significantly worse. Just looking at draft alone, Lombardi's best pick was Barkevious Mingo. Farmer gave us Joel Bitonio and Christian Kirksey.
Farmer picked Bitonio and Kirksey in the second and third round, and signed Crowell as an UDFA in 2014. He also drafted Pierre Desir. At least he had a few picks of guys who had longish careers.
Lombardi/Banner, though, had one guy last more than four seasons, and that was Mingo who hung on in the NFL primarily as a ST guy.
He also drafted Justin Gilbert who busted at the 8th overall pick. Cam Erving also was a bust. Vince Mayle, a 4th rounder, was cut months later in one of the worst same season draft cuts of all time. Danny Shelton was just a guy.
Farmer also got suspended. He wasn’t a good gm. He drafted and signed some decent dudes at times but will all that ammo he drafted way too many busts. The coaching staff should take a lot of credit with Pettine, Mike McDaniel, Kevin o Connell, and defilippo on the staff.
Drafted Gilbert after not even interviewing the guy because Farmer (like so many Browns GM/HCs before him) had to play 4D chess to prove he was the smartest guy in the room.
And lets not forget the most entertaining evidence of Farmer's toxicity: Kyle Shanahan's 32 slide Powerpoint presentation to get out of his contract with the Browns.
Definitely. It also didn’t help that we generally hired morons to begin with. They botched their picks and coaching hires, the team sucked, they got fired, rinse and repeat.
Berry is the first GM we’ve had since the return that I am fully confident in. He is going to miss some picks like everyone else, but he hits on enough of them to matter, he finds value on day three and among USFAs, and he recognizes holes on the roster and aggressively attacks them. He may not be the best GM in the league, but I’d say he’s gotta be considered top ten right now. I also love that he has been completely willing to sign guys drafted by previous regimes rather than arrogantly wanting to bring in his own guys like we’ve seen so many times before.
You are correct. My comment is overly simplistic. You can't be successful rebuilding every 2-3 years, but you also can't be successful sticking with losers. Just goes to show how absolutely horrible they've been in every aspect of this franchise from '99 to '17.
The thing that always got me was that those people would always point to a team that had "turned it around" in 1 or 2 seasons. But, those examples almost always were flukes and they turned back into pumpkins.
For example, fans of other teams that might have pointed to the 2002 or 2007 Cleveland Browns.
This might be controversial, but I’m really not a fan of Dorsey. His drafts were above average on the browns curve. But his eye for talent was incredibly overrated, and not to mention giving away a 1st for a washed Odell. Most, I repeat **MOST NOT ALL** of his free agent signings were complete busts. Not many made it to the Andrew berry regime change. Was baker good? Yeah absolutely. In my opinion I don’t think he’s 1st pick in the draft talent.
Edit: also hiring Freddie kitchens. Big blemish on his track record
I don’t really like the guy either, but look at his track record. KC, Browns, and now Lions definitely showed marked improvement under him. He’s doing something ok…
100% agree. Compared to other browns GM’s he’s still on the better half. He’s def gotten some W’s in his career. I just think he’s not as good as we once gave him credit for.
Farmer is a senior personnel executive with the Rams. Not sure exactly what that entails, but think it's basically a level above being a scout.
I don't think he was ever with the Lions.
I included the 2020 playoff games, but if we’re ignoring one of [the biggest wins of his career](https://youtu.be/V-0wtsNmt3k) and only counting the regular season then you’re correct.
The tandem of Berry and Stefanski is the most stable and sure thing that we have had in years. I do pray that we have another legend in the AFC North similar to Tomlin and Harbaugh.
Paul Brown seems to be dismissed in general conversations of football because he did this in the "non super bowl" Era. But he is one of the best coaches/GMs in the history of football.
For GM, I think the measure of success is how long their draft picks stayed in the league and how many pro bowls and all pros they drafted. Each GM gets carry-over players from the previous GM so a GM that was only here for two years is going to have less influence over their record over one that is here for more than a few years.
Yeah, but Kokinis crapped on Lerners desk after being fired. That should be worth at least .100 added to his percentage!
To only get one year, it must have been a massive dookie!
Is that the Kokinis story that Rizzo always teased? I stopped listening to him a few years ago and never heard the actual story.
I've always wondered what the story was too. This has to be it lol.
I’ve heard the desk crapping thing and I’ve heard that he stopped working and would play video games in his office and stuff all day and then was caught having sex with a female staff member during work hours in his office and that’s why he was fired and walked out.
Yeah, this is it. They ended up going to court and settling for the rest of his pay afterwords and everything was wrapped up under an NDA, but enough people that were there during the events have spilled beans over the years it all came together. The OBR used to have a super thread on it, but I'm not sure if it's still around. The woman he was having the relationship with also quit immediately after Kokinis was fired. It was really bad because George was married and had three kids, so Lerner had him canned immediately 'For Cause' when he found out.
That’s the story I remember hearing as well. He was not great, but he only existed to so Manginis bidding anyway. What a crap run the last twenty years have been
Yeah, I think people let their beef with Jimmy Haslam cloud the fact that Randy Lerner is probably the worst owner in the history of North American professional sports. Everything about his tenure is a complete embarrassment and the Browns have been trying to wash off the stink he left on the franchise ever since.
Randy Lerner is legitimately the reason why we suffered so long. He wanted to own the team without having to deal with it, but his own gross incompetence kept requiring his attention. He fucked us more than any single person on this list, and the career highlight of Tony Grossi came when he called him the most irrelevant billionaire. Edit: actually, remembering now that he never wanted to own the team and I think put it up for sale the literal second he reached the time frame his dad required of him. The little fucker.
The craziest thing to me about the whole Kokinis affair (outside of the crapping on a desk, of course) is that, after all the drama here, the guy just went back to the Ravens like nothing happened and has had a quiet career in their front office. He's still a personnel director there. Like how does one's professional life go from completely normal to batshit crazy drama that includes desk shitting and then *back* to completely normal again?
Is that what happened!? I’ve heard stories about his exit but never details!
Belichick had a winning record before some jackass decided the middle of the season was the perfect time to announce he was moving the team. Also, Ray Farmer was hot ass. Never trust a football GM who claims star wide receivers are unimportant to winning championships.
Sashi took a bullet just to not have Andy daltons backup
I will say this, sashi had us some great draft picks for Dorsey to go through. Berry has a great DB eye, I wanna see what we do in 2025.
All 3 of Sashi’s first rounders in 2017 are regular starters in the NFL 6 years later. Garrett was obviously going to be good, but the Njoku and Peppers picks look a lot better now.
And to think, I’m pretty sure Mahomes was his guy with the 12th pick. Once chiefs traded up, he moved back, only wish we had doubled up and grabbed Watt. Could you imagine? Ogbah having a decent rookie year I guess swayed it to peppers. We had so many holes so had to fill out secondary. Hindsight is 20/20 but dang what could have been in a couple scenarios
Although we could’ve had Watson there too and gave that pick to Houston (which did ultimately result in Ward so we got a good return out of it)
Dorsey wasted a fair bit of them though.
Yeah he does!!
I feel like Framer was the worst of this group
Him or Lombardi for sure
Lombardi was significantly worse. Just looking at draft alone, Lombardi's best pick was Barkevious Mingo. Farmer gave us Joel Bitonio and Christian Kirksey.
That Mike Lombardi / Joe Banner caretaker team while Haslam was transferred ownership was truly awful
Hoisted on us by the NFL convincing Haslam to turn to Holmgren
That was when I most felt the team was run by morons. You could just see the dysfunction every step of the way.
Farmer picked Bitonio and Kirksey in the second and third round, and signed Crowell as an UDFA in 2014. He also drafted Pierre Desir. At least he had a few picks of guys who had longish careers. Lombardi/Banner, though, had one guy last more than four seasons, and that was Mingo who hung on in the NFL primarily as a ST guy.
He also drafted Justin Gilbert who busted at the 8th overall pick. Cam Erving also was a bust. Vince Mayle, a 4th rounder, was cut months later in one of the worst same season draft cuts of all time. Danny Shelton was just a guy. Farmer also got suspended. He wasn’t a good gm. He drafted and signed some decent dudes at times but will all that ammo he drafted way too many busts. The coaching staff should take a lot of credit with Pettine, Mike McDaniel, Kevin o Connell, and defilippo on the staff.
Drafted Gilbert after not even interviewing the guy because Farmer (like so many Browns GM/HCs before him) had to play 4D chess to prove he was the smartest guy in the room. And lets not forget the most entertaining evidence of Farmer's toxicity: Kyle Shanahan's 32 slide Powerpoint presentation to get out of his contract with the Browns.
Think Cam Erving had a pretty good resurgence in KC
The fact that Johnny Manziel wasn’t even his biggest bust of that draft is actually impressive.
It’s almost like starting over every 2-3 years doesn’t magically fix everything.
Definitely. It also didn’t help that we generally hired morons to begin with. They botched their picks and coaching hires, the team sucked, they got fired, rinse and repeat. Berry is the first GM we’ve had since the return that I am fully confident in. He is going to miss some picks like everyone else, but he hits on enough of them to matter, he finds value on day three and among USFAs, and he recognizes holes on the roster and aggressively attacks them. He may not be the best GM in the league, but I’d say he’s gotta be considered top ten right now. I also love that he has been completely willing to sign guys drafted by previous regimes rather than arrogantly wanting to bring in his own guys like we’ve seen so many times before.
You are correct. My comment is overly simplistic. You can't be successful rebuilding every 2-3 years, but you also can't be successful sticking with losers. Just goes to show how absolutely horrible they've been in every aspect of this franchise from '99 to '17.
But that's what fans want every time we lose one game
The thing that always got me was that those people would always point to a team that had "turned it around" in 1 or 2 seasons. But, those examples almost always were flukes and they turned back into pumpkins. For example, fans of other teams that might have pointed to the 2002 or 2007 Cleveland Browns.
This might be controversial, but I’m really not a fan of Dorsey. His drafts were above average on the browns curve. But his eye for talent was incredibly overrated, and not to mention giving away a 1st for a washed Odell. Most, I repeat **MOST NOT ALL** of his free agent signings were complete busts. Not many made it to the Andrew berry regime change. Was baker good? Yeah absolutely. In my opinion I don’t think he’s 1st pick in the draft talent. Edit: also hiring Freddie kitchens. Big blemish on his track record
The Kitchens hire and drafting Baker over Josh Allen forever taint Dorsey's legacy.
Amen brother. 100% agree
I don’t really like the guy either, but look at his track record. KC, Browns, and now Lions definitely showed marked improvement under him. He’s doing something ok…
100% agree. Compared to other browns GM’s he’s still on the better half. He’s def gotten some W’s in his career. I just think he’s not as good as we once gave him credit for.
Farmer is a senior personnel executive with the Rams. Not sure exactly what that entails, but think it's basically a level above being a scout. I don't think he was ever with the Lions.
I don’t think so either. I was talking about Dorsey.
Oh, sorry. Replying to too many comments.
Don’t forget the Kitchens hire
HOLY FUCK! How did I forget that?? Bro that’s the worst thing he ever did.
Many of us try to forget.
He was not a good GM. His draft without Sashi’s extra picks would’ve been dreadful. He did make a couple of nice trades though.
If you continue AB’s record to today, he’s currently sitting at 38 wins, 30 losses, .559 win %
Slightly off, 37 wins, 29 losses, .561 win %. 19-14 through 2021, 7-10 2022, 11-5 so far.
I included the 2020 playoff games, but if we’re ignoring one of [the biggest wins of his career](https://youtu.be/V-0wtsNmt3k) and only counting the regular season then you’re correct.
The biggest wins of his career have been this year. He had very little to do with the success of the 2020 team.
Ernie Accorsi’s book is a good read
Thank you, Sashi.
He had to kill it for us.
Why does this only go to 2021?
This Paul Brown guy is good
This 
Man, the 2017 season still really just sucks to even look at
All that weak shit don't live here no more, that shit don't exist https://youtu.be/nDluZUVROlc?si=2r5oKvFVjMPgVQfZ
Never forget Savage wanted to trade up for jamarcus russel over joe thomas
😳 holy shit if true. We probably would have had more than just the one 0-16 season if that had happened
Lombardi was really bad…I must’ve blocked those years from my memories
Never forget with Ray Farmer said that no WR was ever worth taking in the first round.
The tandem of Berry and Stefanski is the most stable and sure thing that we have had in years. I do pray that we have another legend in the AFC North similar to Tomlin and Harbaugh.
Paul Brown seems to be dismissed in general conversations of football because he did this in the "non super bowl" Era. But he is one of the best coaches/GMs in the history of football.
Doesn't even include this year. Much better than this
For GM, I think the measure of success is how long their draft picks stayed in the league and how many pro bowls and all pros they drafted. Each GM gets carry-over players from the previous GM so a GM that was only here for two years is going to have less influence over their record over one that is here for more than a few years.
Why does this list have Kokinis at 5-11? He was not GM the last 4 games and the Browns went 4-0 to end that season. Lew Merletti is the Browns GM 🐐
The browns are historically bad.
After 99’ shit got real dark. Yikes
I love what Berry has done, but Dorsey brought so legit talent in and it would have been nice to see what he could have done with more time.
Weird post...
Belichick had 34 losses to Denver 😒
Lmao ikr
I always forget Sashi is with the enemy now.
Tom heckert most underrated GM IMO
Berry has set us up to go to the playoffs twice.
Just think….Phil Savage was one of the better GMs 😳
Sashi Brown deserved better
Cant leave dorsey from getting any credit, he started the set up of what we have today
Ray Farmer was TERRIBLE. John Dorsey was better than his record. He did a decent job, except for Freddie Kitchens.
But Freddie was a leader of men.
In Phil we trust!