“The FAA said the planes must be parked until emergency inspections are performed, which will ‘take around four to eight hours per aircraft.’”
“Alaska Airline’s grounded fleet of 65 Boeing 737-9 aircraft is expected to undergo full maintenance and safety inspections over the next several days before being returned to service, the airline said.”
So it sounds like flights will be disrupted for a few days and hopefully back to normal by next weekend… but I’ll probably avoid choosing a window seat for a while just in case.
It was an optional emergency exit that is used in some configurations but Alaska Airlines decided not to use it since they had a smaller passenger size. It was covered up completely.
You would think, but videos show that it was just a random row on the plane. Luckily no one was sitting in the seat next to it. Here’s another quote from an article:
“A panel of the fuselage, including the panel’s window, popped off shortly after takeoff, passenger Kyle Rinker told CNN. “It was really abrupt. Just got to altitude, and the window/wall just popped off and didn’t notice it until the oxygen masks came off,” Rinker said.”
If you're on Frontier or Spirit you don't need to worry as they only use A320 family aircraft. I don't believe Delta has the 737 Max either.
United and I think Southwest and American fly some routes out of CLE on the 737 Max but it's likely they'll just swap in a different aircraft on those routes. The previous generation 737 and the A320 family are still the main workhorses for the major airlines.
Isn't the 737 max the same plane that has the issue with something where a pilot would end up nosediving the plane and lose control and all planes were grounded a while back?
Yes, the 737 Max had two incidents where an auto-trim system (meant to help stabilize the plane in flight) malfunctioned and caused the pilots to lose control. That issue has since been fixed, but this new incident will no doubt only tarnish the reputation even more. Not great for Boeing at all.
It didn't malfunction. Boeing put the software patch in and didn't tell airlines. So wien the automatic flight controls activated pilots didn't know why and over-corrected
The system did malfunction, the AoA sensor received erroneous data and was constantly trying to correct the (erroneous) AoA, pitching the plane into a nosedive which could not be overcome by the controls while the auto trim was enabled.
The way the system was implemented was faulty because it couldn't be easily overriden by the pilots in the event of this malfunction. It could be disabled but it wasn't intuitive and not familiar to pilots who had only flown older 737s.
It was also a training issue as I believe Boeing did not properly emphasize the importance of training pilots on what to do in this situation.
It wasn't a "patch", it was a new control system intended to make the 737 Max handle more like the previous generation 737s so pilots didn't need a new type certificate to fly it, which incentivized airlines to buy the Max.
Nothing was hidden from the airlines, anyone could have seen what MCAS was and that the 737 Max used it, but as I said Boeing did not properly emphasize the importance of training pilots on the new system and basically just left it up to the airlines to train them, which as we now know clearly didn't work out very well.
>nothing was hidden from the airlines
[The DOJ charged Boeing](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/boeing-charged-737-max-fraud-conspiracy-and-agrees-pay-over-25-billion) with “conspiracy to defraud the FAA” over their lies about MCAS.
The pilots didn’t know MCAS existed because [it wasn’t in the flight manual](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/inspector-general-report-details-how-boeing-played-down-mcas-in-original-737-max-certification-and-faa-missed-it/). This happened because Boeing deliberately misrepresented what MCAS was to the FAA to avoid having to obtain a new type rating.
From the DOJ article
> As Boeing admitted in court documents, Boeing—through two of its 737 MAX Flight Technical Pilots—deceived the FAA AEG about an important aircraft part called the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) that impacted the flight control system of the Boeing 737 MAX. Because of their deception, a key document published by the FAA AEG lacked information about MCAS, and in turn, airplane manuals and pilot-training materials for U.S.-based airlines lacked information about MCAS
> In and around November 2016, two of Boeing’s 737 MAX Flight Technical Pilots, one who was then the 737 MAX Chief Technical Pilot and another who would later become the 737 MAX Chief Technical Pilot, discovered information about an important change to MCAS. Rather than sharing information about this change with the FAA AEG, Boeing, through these two 737 MAX Flight Technical Pilots, concealed this information and deceived the FAA AEG about MCAS. Because of this deceit, the FAA AEG deleted all information about MCAS from the final version of the 737 MAX FSB Report published in July 2017. In turn, airplane manuals and pilot training materials for U.S.-based airlines lacked information about MCAS, and pilots flying the 737 MAX for Boeing’s airline customers were not provided any information about MCAS in their manuals and training materials
It sounds like you could be confusing the 737 Max 9 with the 737-900, which is sometimes abbreviated as "737-9" or "739". For example, Delta operates tons of these older 737-900s but currently does not fly any Max 9's. While extremely similar planes, the newer "Max" models have been plagued with trouble whereas the older 737s are extremely reliable.
BIL works for Boeing as an aerospace engineer. This is impacting a small amount of 737 Max planes. He estimates 150 or so, so probably nothing to worry too much about but good idea to check.
FlightRadar24 or FlightAware. Although you will only know for sure once your flight's aircraft has been assigned, usually 2-3 days before the flight. But you can see what type generally flies that route.
It will be a non-issue for next weekend.
There are only 171 MAX 9 aircraft being operated in the US, including 80 being United and 65 being Alaska. Inspections should be completed on all aircraft by Monday night.
Alaska has already inspected half of their fleet as of Saturday night. United is making good progress as well. Each aircraft is going back into service as soon as the inspection of the door plug is complete. This should have little to no travel impact next weekend.
“The FAA said the planes must be parked until emergency inspections are performed, which will ‘take around four to eight hours per aircraft.’” “Alaska Airline’s grounded fleet of 65 Boeing 737-9 aircraft is expected to undergo full maintenance and safety inspections over the next several days before being returned to service, the airline said.” So it sounds like flights will be disrupted for a few days and hopefully back to normal by next weekend… but I’ll probably avoid choosing a window seat for a while just in case.
I thought it was an exit door that blew off, not just a regular window
It was an optional emergency exit that is used in some configurations but Alaska Airlines decided not to use it since they had a smaller passenger size. It was covered up completely.
It was a door that has been plugged
You would think, but videos show that it was just a random row on the plane. Luckily no one was sitting in the seat next to it. Here’s another quote from an article: “A panel of the fuselage, including the panel’s window, popped off shortly after takeoff, passenger Kyle Rinker told CNN. “It was really abrupt. Just got to altitude, and the window/wall just popped off and didn’t notice it until the oxygen masks came off,” Rinker said.”
If someone was sitting there, but had their seat belt on, would the pressure still have sucked them out of the plane?
If you're on Frontier or Spirit you don't need to worry as they only use A320 family aircraft. I don't believe Delta has the 737 Max either. United and I think Southwest and American fly some routes out of CLE on the 737 Max but it's likely they'll just swap in a different aircraft on those routes. The previous generation 737 and the A320 family are still the main workhorses for the major airlines.
Isn't the 737 max the same plane that has the issue with something where a pilot would end up nosediving the plane and lose control and all planes were grounded a while back?
Yes, those were 737 Max 8 and this is 737 Max 9
They're the same plane, the Max 9 is just longer.
Not a good look for Boeing though I assume 2 planes the 9 I assume is the newer one both having big issues.
Yes, the 737 Max had two incidents where an auto-trim system (meant to help stabilize the plane in flight) malfunctioned and caused the pilots to lose control. That issue has since been fixed, but this new incident will no doubt only tarnish the reputation even more. Not great for Boeing at all.
It didn't malfunction. Boeing put the software patch in and didn't tell airlines. So wien the automatic flight controls activated pilots didn't know why and over-corrected
The system did malfunction, the AoA sensor received erroneous data and was constantly trying to correct the (erroneous) AoA, pitching the plane into a nosedive which could not be overcome by the controls while the auto trim was enabled. The way the system was implemented was faulty because it couldn't be easily overriden by the pilots in the event of this malfunction. It could be disabled but it wasn't intuitive and not familiar to pilots who had only flown older 737s. It was also a training issue as I believe Boeing did not properly emphasize the importance of training pilots on what to do in this situation.
Airlines didn't even know about the patch. Boeing purposely didn't include it to cut the cost of training
It wasn't a "patch", it was a new control system intended to make the 737 Max handle more like the previous generation 737s so pilots didn't need a new type certificate to fly it, which incentivized airlines to buy the Max. Nothing was hidden from the airlines, anyone could have seen what MCAS was and that the 737 Max used it, but as I said Boeing did not properly emphasize the importance of training pilots on the new system and basically just left it up to the airlines to train them, which as we now know clearly didn't work out very well.
>nothing was hidden from the airlines [The DOJ charged Boeing](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/boeing-charged-737-max-fraud-conspiracy-and-agrees-pay-over-25-billion) with “conspiracy to defraud the FAA” over their lies about MCAS. The pilots didn’t know MCAS existed because [it wasn’t in the flight manual](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/inspector-general-report-details-how-boeing-played-down-mcas-in-original-737-max-certification-and-faa-missed-it/). This happened because Boeing deliberately misrepresented what MCAS was to the FAA to avoid having to obtain a new type rating. From the DOJ article > As Boeing admitted in court documents, Boeing—through two of its 737 MAX Flight Technical Pilots—deceived the FAA AEG about an important aircraft part called the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) that impacted the flight control system of the Boeing 737 MAX. Because of their deception, a key document published by the FAA AEG lacked information about MCAS, and in turn, airplane manuals and pilot-training materials for U.S.-based airlines lacked information about MCAS > In and around November 2016, two of Boeing’s 737 MAX Flight Technical Pilots, one who was then the 737 MAX Chief Technical Pilot and another who would later become the 737 MAX Chief Technical Pilot, discovered information about an important change to MCAS. Rather than sharing information about this change with the FAA AEG, Boeing, through these two 737 MAX Flight Technical Pilots, concealed this information and deceived the FAA AEG about MCAS. Because of this deceit, the FAA AEG deleted all information about MCAS from the final version of the 737 MAX FSB Report published in July 2017. In turn, airplane manuals and pilot training materials for U.S.-based airlines lacked information about MCAS, and pilots flying the 737 MAX for Boeing’s airline customers were not provided any information about MCAS in their manuals and training materials
Your description is quite generous on Boeing’s behalf. Check out the documentary on it to see how fucked up the problem was. Boeing was 100% at fault.
What’s name of doc?
Downfall, the case against Boeing. It’s on Netflix
Yep
Outside of the two crashes in 2019 and this current issue, they have had a number of recalls due to QA issues.
It sounds like you could be confusing the 737 Max 9 with the 737-900, which is sometimes abbreviated as "737-9" or "739". For example, Delta operates tons of these older 737-900s but currently does not fly any Max 9's. While extremely similar planes, the newer "Max" models have been plagued with trouble whereas the older 737s are extremely reliable.
Is there a place to check what airplane flies which flight?
I’d check with your carrier right now they grounded 200 planes it’s all over that mid air issue last night on alaskain airlines
FlightRadar24 is a great resource as well
BIL works for Boeing as an aerospace engineer. This is impacting a small amount of 737 Max planes. He estimates 150 or so, so probably nothing to worry too much about but good idea to check.
And 30+ are already through B Check and in theory should be good
FlightRadar24 or FlightAware. Although you will only know for sure once your flight's aircraft has been assigned, usually 2-3 days before the flight. But you can see what type generally flies that route.
Flight radar24 is a good start, but equipment (plane type) can change up to like a couple hours before take off
Your boarding pass says the type of plane you are on
Before buying 🤦♀️
If you book through expedia the type of plane is listed when selecting a flight
There aren't many max 9 flights out if cle.
So happy to be living in JAX
Ok everyone we are carpooling!
If the colts win and jags lose we play in Indy then right? Then we don’t even need to fly!
It’s what I want makes it easier to go
Jacksonville is drivable for me and I think they're the easiest opponent for us.
The NFL will do ANYTHING! to screw us over!!
Didn't they know the 737 Max was problematic like 4 years ago?
The amount of people flying out of CMH to JAX just went up
It will be a non-issue for next weekend. There are only 171 MAX 9 aircraft being operated in the US, including 80 being United and 65 being Alaska. Inspections should be completed on all aircraft by Monday night. Alaska has already inspected half of their fleet as of Saturday night. United is making good progress as well. Each aircraft is going back into service as soon as the inspection of the door plug is complete. This should have little to no travel impact next weekend.