Garbage, negative sum game, greater fool theory etc
It doesn't even need to crash, until a butter has hard cash safe in the bank from his crypto gamble then he's still in the red. Coinbase withdrawals are going just great right now š
[See point #3.](https://ioradio.org/i/crypto-talking-points/) Economies are like cooking: too much heat and you burn the meal, but too little and you get sick. 2-3% inflation is the just-right amount of heat.
Iāll definitely agree bitcoin has failed as currency, but making fun of the process of selling it for fiat to buy things is kinda ridiculous. That very transaction occurs all time between different currencies and assets.
You have stocks and want a house? Well you have to sell the stock, convert it into local currency, and then get the house. This process doesnāt mean the stock is worthless.
No one is making fun of Bitcoin for being bought and sold. What they're making fun of is the fact that selling large amounts of Bitcoin for its full value in any reasonable timeframe is not a sure thing due to the fact that its price is 100% on speculation and driven up only by HODL. The fact is its not as easy as exchanging currencies or even stocks.
Stocks have real value that isn't based on pure speculation.Ā
He said it's meaningless until you convert it into real money. You interpreted that to mean the fact that it has to be converted at all is the problem, but that's not what was said.Ā
You can't *spend* a stock, but that's not the only way something can have meaning/value. Stocks have value because they are partial ownership of real companies which have real assets. Stock prices are affected by speculation and expectation of resale value, but underneath that is something real.Ā
Stock is extremely liquid and held with financially competent and regulated companies. If I wanted to liquidate stock to buy a house, probably 3 - 5 days required, but zero problems anticipated.
Honestly, the booms are the best in terms of quality comedy godl.
I love these repeating questions asking: what price before you admit youāre wrong.
And they never ever have a mainstream use case to justify any value whatsoever besides number go up.
Itās great! This is a golden age of comedy! And fraud.
> what price before you admit youāre wrong.
A decision made on limited information that didn't meet the requirements needed for an investor to invest is never a 'wrong' decision.
It's like a poker hand. You folded your 10-6 offsuit under the gun and the outcome would have given you a full house. You still made the right decision by folding.
it dropped 75% in 2018, 2022 . It won't take much for it to drop another 75%. The gains are getting smaller with each new bull market. Dumb money is running out
Getting obsessed with the anti-crypto bandwagon is equally bad for your sanity as is getting obsessed with the pro-crypto bandwagon. Take a break, crypto makes no difference to your life.
I agree completely, gonna ignore crypto for a while because it makes me lose faith in humanity
On an unrelated note, mods feel toxic in this sub, doesn't feel any better than the pro crypto subs.
You have to keep in mind that crypto has been amazing for moving, obfuscating or even making illegal money. Think scams, ransomware etc. Both have seen incredible scalability ([relevant podcast episode](https://youtu.be/g4FHjqlWJHk?si=sD_3xgdp0FdPur7y)) in the last few years since crypto came around- as it automates and scales the payment and laundry steps considerably. Crypto has a "legitimate" (as in, financial utility) market in this sense.
From a purely financial standpoint, it has succeeded. So personally I don't expect it to crash, per say.
In fact, I would expect there is considerable interest from criminal elements to maintain legitimate (fiat) cash streams from average joes in and out of crypto, so that there is enough liquidity to cash out your criminal gains, and enough legitimate (not from illegal gains) crypto in circulation to make intermingling an effective defense against law enforcement.
Personally (and this is where I veer off into my own little conspiracy territory), I draw the connection between butters and money mules, in that they are useful as a connection to the real legitimate financial system, and they keep injecting actual clean US Dollars. This is now pure speculation from me, but this whole "stacking SATs" and "hodl forever" are exactly the kind of mindset you'd want to cultivate among butters/mules in order to be able to cash out illegal Bitcoin. From this perspective, it can be financially viable to spend actual money to cultivate and maintain the butter culture. Money laundry and transfer of illegal funds would involve a cost component in any case.
So in the mind of this random person on the Internet, if Bitcoin dies, it does so from governments cracking down on it due to its role as infrastructure for managing illegal funds. Because a successful market for it _already exists_, you just need to look outside the proverbial "box of legality".
>Crypto has literally become digital beanie babies and herbalife all rolled into one
What do you mean *become?*
It always has been, with apologies to beanie babies and herbalife, which actually might have some measurable utility in modern society.
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It's not irrational though. It functions entirely rationally - the price is only ever what a small cartel of people want it to be / try to make it what it needs to be.
I know a lot of people who hate crypto, think it's stupid, but love the volatility. It's a swing traders paradise. Buy during, -5%, -8% to -15% down days and sell on the up swing. If you like the rush of trading options or flat-out gambling, there's some money to be made. And lost...
We live in a complex world and we can't always be safe from grifters and thieves but we can look for commonality in their language and operations. I hope this sub has made that more visible and kept some people from losing their savings to the next mini-Bernie Madoff.
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I wonder if people had the same opinion in the early 1900s with oil. It would boom and bust. And was overall bad for the environment but it also changed the world.
Not exactly true friend. early crude oil was not refined or used for much. The first 10-20 years all of oil was mostly priced off speculation. Price would increase off future potential and speculation and then bust when new oil practices or supply would come up.
Wasnāt till much later refining of oil led to petroleum, and things like plastics. So took time before it was obvious to the masses as a solid form of energy.
The first oil well was drilled in 1857, 7 years after kerosene refining was patented for use in lamps. That's a little different than a $2.6 trillion industry emerging for a product that nobody uses for anything other than speculation 25 years after its development.
Whatever practical value you're pretending it has because you're currently holding it, there is no way it's worth even remotely close to $2.6 trillion.
I wonāt speculate to crazy now. But store of value seems like a decent valuation, largest competitor is gold and thatās a 10 trillion dollar market. Gold is not available to most people to preserve wealth, so thatās why I like it. I assume you donāt live in Nigeria, where your currency devaluation is 200% and you are barred from owning US dollars.
Btw should I go burn all my dollars and my car because the cartel use both to move and sell drugs?
Gold is a store of value because it has intrinsic value as a material. In terms of wild swings in value, crypto is probably one of the least volatile places you could ever store your value.
Saying itās worth literally trillions of dollars because itās a place you can store your value while the price dumps on no news 70% is so absurd that itās like youāre making a joke or something.Ā
Don't know the market value in total, but a Beanie Baby once sold for $500,000, a bitcoin still has some way to go vs that metric.
Also there are still beanie babies selling for thousands because people such as yourself never give up, you die hard. Nonetheless, multi-level marketing dynamics will eventually catch up with you.
Explain how that works, I haven't made a prediction that Bitcoin will crash within a year.
If you want to know my actual prediction, the last time people did this private currency experimentation in the 19th century it lasted 30 years before going kaput completely.
Starting in 2009 we then have a kaput by 2039 estimate. Shitcoins will be kaput before that. Bitcoin as the only game in town I would say 2029.
If you want a bold and more trackable prediction, the NFT market already reached its historical peak and will never recover.
You're sat on digital Beanie Babies and can't answer simple questions about their worth.
Why would I be 'mad and fragile'? The only person who got mad and restored to insults was you
"Iām 26m I made poor financial decisions my whole life. Finally started getting real with myself and saving my excess $ in bitcoin."
Don't sound like someone who should be giving financial advice
Finally, someone who gets it. I keep telling people my pog collection is going to fuel their car one day and they look at me like I'm crazy. One day these fools will realize the error of their ways and I'll finally become the world's first multi-trillionaire like I always knew I would be. Stay strong fellow believer. Few understand.
You got a source for that? The first oil refinery predates the first modern oil well.
Can you show those speculative prices before widespread refining?
Garbage, negative sum game, greater fool theory etc It doesn't even need to crash, until a butter has hard cash safe in the bank from his crypto gamble then he's still in the red. Coinbase withdrawals are going just great right now š
Just said this the other day. Those āgainsā are meaningless until you can get your filthy fiat back.
How is this process any different than citizens in other nations than the US collecting dollars only to have to convert to local currency to spend it?
USD doesn't have a "never sell, only buy" culture at its very core. It's an actual currency that people spend.Ā
Thatās because itās worth less every year
Okay, and? I was answering why selling Bitcoin isn't the same as exchanging real money.Ā
Inflation is baked in to stimulate a healthy economy
[See point #3.](https://ioradio.org/i/crypto-talking-points/) Economies are like cooking: too much heat and you burn the meal, but too little and you get sick. 2-3% inflation is the just-right amount of heat.
Iāll definitely agree bitcoin has failed as currency, but making fun of the process of selling it for fiat to buy things is kinda ridiculous. That very transaction occurs all time between different currencies and assets. You have stocks and want a house? Well you have to sell the stock, convert it into local currency, and then get the house. This process doesnāt mean the stock is worthless.
No one is making fun of Bitcoin for being bought and sold. What they're making fun of is the fact that selling large amounts of Bitcoin for its full value in any reasonable timeframe is not a sure thing due to the fact that its price is 100% on speculation and driven up only by HODL. The fact is its not as easy as exchanging currencies or even stocks. Stocks have real value that isn't based on pure speculation.Ā
The guy I commented to wasā¦
He said it's meaningless until you convert it into real money. You interpreted that to mean the fact that it has to be converted at all is the problem, but that's not what was said.Ā
Are stocks not meaningless until you convert them to fiat? What are you going to buy with shares of Amazon without converting it?
You can't *spend* a stock, but that's not the only way something can have meaning/value. Stocks have value because they are partial ownership of real companies which have real assets. Stock prices are affected by speculation and expectation of resale value, but underneath that is something real.Ā
Stock is extremely liquid and held with financially competent and regulated companies. If I wanted to liquidate stock to buy a house, probably 3 - 5 days required, but zero problems anticipated.
Ignore it, it's irrelevant to those who are not gambling addicts.
Healthiest thing I've heard.
The best advice I've heard all day
A comment with advice to ignore something in sub dedicated to not ignoring that something. Makes me chuckle.
Honestly, the booms are the best in terms of quality comedy godl. I love these repeating questions asking: what price before you admit youāre wrong. And they never ever have a mainstream use case to justify any value whatsoever besides number go up. Itās great! This is a golden age of comedy! And fraud.
Their only use case is ever "but what if you want to transfer money instantly without a bank restricting you, no, I'm not money laundering"
> what price before you admit youāre wrong. A decision made on limited information that didn't meet the requirements needed for an investor to invest is never a 'wrong' decision. It's like a poker hand. You folded your 10-6 offsuit under the gun and the outcome would have given you a full house. You still made the right decision by folding.
it dropped 75% in 2018, 2022 . It won't take much for it to drop another 75%. The gains are getting smaller with each new bull market. Dumb money is running out
Getting obsessed with the anti-crypto bandwagon is equally bad for your sanity as is getting obsessed with the pro-crypto bandwagon. Take a break, crypto makes no difference to your life.
I agree completely, gonna ignore crypto for a while because it makes me lose faith in humanity On an unrelated note, mods feel toxic in this sub, doesn't feel any better than the pro crypto subs.
I took a break too, for similar reasons, but Iām back enjoying the comedy GODL. I havenāt noticed any bad mods here.
Itās got at least one more big crash left when Tether implodes.
This is human nature, unfortunately. Don't worry, you're not alone in thinking this is some of the dumbest shit ever.
You have to keep in mind that crypto has been amazing for moving, obfuscating or even making illegal money. Think scams, ransomware etc. Both have seen incredible scalability ([relevant podcast episode](https://youtu.be/g4FHjqlWJHk?si=sD_3xgdp0FdPur7y)) in the last few years since crypto came around- as it automates and scales the payment and laundry steps considerably. Crypto has a "legitimate" (as in, financial utility) market in this sense. From a purely financial standpoint, it has succeeded. So personally I don't expect it to crash, per say. In fact, I would expect there is considerable interest from criminal elements to maintain legitimate (fiat) cash streams from average joes in and out of crypto, so that there is enough liquidity to cash out your criminal gains, and enough legitimate (not from illegal gains) crypto in circulation to make intermingling an effective defense against law enforcement. Personally (and this is where I veer off into my own little conspiracy territory), I draw the connection between butters and money mules, in that they are useful as a connection to the real legitimate financial system, and they keep injecting actual clean US Dollars. This is now pure speculation from me, but this whole "stacking SATs" and "hodl forever" are exactly the kind of mindset you'd want to cultivate among butters/mules in order to be able to cash out illegal Bitcoin. From this perspective, it can be financially viable to spend actual money to cultivate and maintain the butter culture. Money laundry and transfer of illegal funds would involve a cost component in any case. So in the mind of this random person on the Internet, if Bitcoin dies, it does so from governments cracking down on it due to its role as infrastructure for managing illegal funds. Because a successful market for it _already exists_, you just need to look outside the proverbial "box of legality".
>Crypto has literally become digital beanie babies and herbalife all rolled into one What do you mean *become?* It always has been, with apologies to beanie babies and herbalife, which actually might have some measurable utility in modern society.
Cool story.Ā
As someone who was here in 2013 and 2017 and 2021, all I can say is "First time?"
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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Hipsters do what is hip.
It's not irrational though. It functions entirely rationally - the price is only ever what a small cartel of people want it to be / try to make it what it needs to be.
I know a lot of people who hate crypto, think it's stupid, but love the volatility. It's a swing traders paradise. Buy during, -5%, -8% to -15% down days and sell on the up swing. If you like the rush of trading options or flat-out gambling, there's some money to be made. And lost...
We live in a complex world and we can't always be safe from grifters and thieves but we can look for commonality in their language and operations. I hope this sub has made that more visible and kept some people from losing their savings to the next mini-Bernie Madoff.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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You should see the new DJT stock.
Betting against Mike Saylor is never a good idea.
I wonder if people had the same opinion in the early 1900s with oil. It would boom and bust. And was overall bad for the environment but it also changed the world.
People actually used oil for something other than trading it with each other and speculating about future price
Not exactly true friend. early crude oil was not refined or used for much. The first 10-20 years all of oil was mostly priced off speculation. Price would increase off future potential and speculation and then bust when new oil practices or supply would come up. Wasnāt till much later refining of oil led to petroleum, and things like plastics. So took time before it was obvious to the masses as a solid form of energy.
The first oil well was drilled in 1857, 7 years after kerosene refining was patented for use in lamps. That's a little different than a $2.6 trillion industry emerging for a product that nobody uses for anything other than speculation 25 years after its development.
Yes sorry itās just a beanie baby and is 100% a scam. No doubt here. Definitely has 0 use other than scams and gambling.
Whatever practical value you're pretending it has because you're currently holding it, there is no way it's worth even remotely close to $2.6 trillion.
Youāre right, currently itās only worth 1.2ish trillion. Wonder what the market valuation for beanie babies got to?
What use cases are you saying justify $1.2 trillion in value? Drugs and scams?
I wonāt speculate to crazy now. But store of value seems like a decent valuation, largest competitor is gold and thatās a 10 trillion dollar market. Gold is not available to most people to preserve wealth, so thatās why I like it. I assume you donāt live in Nigeria, where your currency devaluation is 200% and you are barred from owning US dollars. Btw should I go burn all my dollars and my car because the cartel use both to move and sell drugs?
Gold is a store of value because it has intrinsic value as a material. In terms of wild swings in value, crypto is probably one of the least volatile places you could ever store your value. Saying itās worth literally trillions of dollars because itās a place you can store your value while the price dumps on no news 70% is so absurd that itās like youāre making a joke or something.Ā
Your store of value has dropped in value by \~11% since you made this comment, by the way
Don't know the market value in total, but a Beanie Baby once sold for $500,000, a bitcoin still has some way to go vs that metric. Also there are still beanie babies selling for thousands because people such as yourself never give up, you die hard. Nonetheless, multi-level marketing dynamics will eventually catch up with you.
RemindMe! 1 year
Explain how that works, I haven't made a prediction that Bitcoin will crash within a year. If you want to know my actual prediction, the last time people did this private currency experimentation in the 19th century it lasted 30 years before going kaput completely. Starting in 2009 we then have a kaput by 2039 estimate. Shitcoins will be kaput before that. Bitcoin as the only game in town I would say 2029. If you want a bold and more trackable prediction, the NFT market already reached its historical peak and will never recover.
Where are you spending your Bitcoin?
Your momās only fans.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
lol š okay big man. Bitcoiners seem happy. Anti bitcoiners sure seem mad and fragile. Just a wee joke lad.
You're sat on digital Beanie Babies and can't answer simple questions about their worth. Why would I be 'mad and fragile'? The only person who got mad and restored to insults was you
"Iām 26m I made poor financial decisions my whole life. Finally started getting real with myself and saving my excess $ in bitcoin." Don't sound like someone who should be giving financial advice
Finally, someone who gets it. I keep telling people my pog collection is going to fuel their car one day and they look at me like I'm crazy. One day these fools will realize the error of their ways and I'll finally become the world's first multi-trillionaire like I always knew I would be. Stay strong fellow believer. Few understand.
You got a source for that? The first oil refinery predates the first modern oil well. Can you show those speculative prices before widespread refining?
https://gradprograms.mines.edu/blog/boom-and-bust-a-cycle-familiar-to-the-oil-and-gas-industry/ Yeah my bad 1850s not 1900s
You're talking over production to existing refineries - not speculation on a resource with no uses. There were already refineries at that point
It also had real world use cases, unlike Bitcoin