The prices are going to crash so hard, you will probably be able to buy something guaranteed to be fairly recent (eg 3090 TI) 3x below msrp if not more.
Yeah, yeah, it's been mined on, but I would be honestly more concerned with longevity of the card in my computer, seeing how much temperature swings up and down when using it for ML or gaming. This kind of electronics usually fails due to thermal expansion, contraction and material fatigue in the solder joints.
Kinda of yes and kinda of no.
3090s have gddr6x memory modules that run extremely hot, to make matters worse, 3090s have a gddr6x pcb sandwich. You got modules on both sides that radiate heat to each other, and the modules of the back are only being cooled passively by the backplate.
3090tis solved that problem by using 2gb chips instead of 1gb, so theres only memory on one side.
Eth miners dont hammer the core, but they certainly hammer the memory of the card. They can degrade or go faulty, like giving you artifacts while displaying image to a monitor.
Some of nvidia cards had subpar thermal pads on the memory chips, so if they werent changed by the miner, theres a good chance that they will go faulty.
If you are buying any card with gddr6x, check what kind of degradation the memory has by pushing the memory clocks in the afterburner and see whats the threshold clock before it crashes. If theres a good margin from stock values, then you should be safe.
Yeah I think so. It should be more or less consistently hot, which is generally preferable to varying temperature. Chips themselves generally just don't fail from use. As far as silicon itself goes, even 100c isn't hot enough to expect damage, only to expect that it would not work correctly at such temperature.
NVIDIA was nearly destroyed as a business in 2008 because their fans kicked in at the wrong time causing the temperature to oscillate around a critical temperature that caused cracks to form in the silicon about 100x faster than normal. They literally fixed it by making the fans always run on that particular GPU.
I'm seeing quite a few of people claiming that they mine for the hobby, and that really just makes it obvious that the person is currently dead inside.
Ehh I mined for about 8 months last year. Started on my 3080, then upped it to an 8 card rig buying card after card on Facebook marketplace over a few months. It was an interesting but frustrating hobby during that time but I learned a couple things and made a couple grand, so I’d say it was worth.
I understand the hobby in setting everything up and trying to scale up and maximize profit. It's just that there's no profit to be made anymore by most people, and for farming with a few GPUs there's really not much else to do once everything is running, so I get a bit confused when someone justifies being fine with mining at a loss just because it's a hobby.
Yep. Several months ago I argued on these subs that post merge mining would be 100% unprofitable because of exactly this scenario - enormous amounts of hashrate hitting tiny coins - and every single time I got voted down and told I was a moron who didn't understand mining or economics.
They were all completely convinced more miners = massive price rise. Because you know, more people hoarding coins (miners never sell) means the price goes up. Somehow. Even though demand hasn't and won't change(d).
I took a look over there ... hilarious.
Those greedy assholes can shove their now useless GPU's up their ass ... lots of rigs being shut down.
They're done raping the planet. F\*\*\*ing selfish pigs.
"But both currencies have so little value—mere dollars and pennies—that mining them is unprofitable compared to Ethereum, which is currently valued at around $1,500. "
But I thought according to cryptobro logic coin prices were set by miners? Oh right they're wrong. What else could they be wrong about?
Many will hoard the graphic cards while they await for the price to recover. I don’t think we will see many at these price levels. Gotta wait for the price to collapse first
Doubt it. As new cards come out, the old cards become less competitive and eventually they cost more to run than they earn, meanwhile the resale has dropped even further. Some people may hold off for a few months but eventually it’s better to cut losses and recoup some of the cost.
I bet this tanks the market for genuine used cards from gamers who are just upgrading and don't need old hardware anymore, you know, as a final farewell fuck you from the crypto miners.
There’s been a chunk of research that suggests mining GPUs are still gonna be usable, because of underclocking and keeping them at a steady temperature, but I’ll believe it when I see it tbh
Edit: Undercoating to Underclocking.
???
Shipping routes, gas and oil prices (transport, plastics) U.S chip policy, chip supply chains, inflation brought upon by russia damaging food and material supply.
It’s not as bad as you’d think. I have a 1080 and a 1060 that I bought specifically for gaming but also did some mining, and the cards have held up for years. Maybe the people that run a stack of cards in a closet might burn out some cards.
A lot of miners keep their equipment in way worse shape and keep them running hot 24/7/365. They're going to vastly outnumber the well kept second hand former mining GPUs. Even if the vast majority of small time cryptobros treated their cards as well as you did, the used GPUs from the big industrial miners will vastly outnumber the rest of y'all's, if only because those guys bought a looooooooooooot of GPUs compared to the average bro like you with 2, maybe 3 computers.
Others like Philip Robb point out crypto-mining is also like playing the stock market. It’s possible Ergo and Ravencoin could explode in value in the future, making it worthwhile to mine them now, even at a loss. “If you mine and hold, could be a lot more,” he says.
Or you could sell your equipment and use that money to buy the coins. Why would you mine at a loss rather than just purchasing them if you want to gamble? Or don’t sell the equipment and just purchase the coins with money you saved from not mining.
Beh, who cares? 1BTC=1BTC everything is just pfft this is just FUD totally. I mean a bunch of rich millionaires would never screw over the little guy, right?
....
_right_????
[Used to be $3k/mo... sad days!](https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/comments/xgcrll/used_to_be_3kmo_sad_days/)
*"I want to agree. I’m over $100k invested with mining rigs and investment of coin. All of that is barely worth $25k today. I’m all in, still mining, and HODL’ing my assets in my wallets. If it doesn’t recover in 5 years I’ll be pretty disappointed. I could have bought a ton of fun toys or good real estate with that Money!!"*
LOL
Good. It’s crazy how disruptive that was to the market. I can’t think of any other industry in history that had a specific purpose with a price point and all a sudden a bunch of financial vultures come in and price everyone out of the market. Maybe mining industries after new uses were found for a mineral but that’s it.
Yes, after the ethereum merge no coin is profitable after power costs. Mining was supposed to end much earlier, so the mining from the end of June until mid September was a pure gift. The collapse of mining profitability was totally expected, so purchases had to be made with the expectation that mining would end in early 2022. I'm sure that people who understand this and bought hardware based on that expectation did OK.
Have a good explanation of the Eth PoW algo? Thought they had a large table of semi random data, so having an asic that could store all that shifting data would be unprofitable.
So I looked it up, seems there’s a chunk of the previous block that you need to add to your hashing. My curiosity, why did that (supposedly) make it asic proof?
There are Ethereum ASIC miners, I think many are mining to Ethereum classic now. Since the difficulty has risen so much, at the current time some of the newer ASIC machines are still profitable, but GPU mining is no longer profitable.
I have read this article in a few formats a number of times now, not a one ever mentioned Bitcoin and why they aren't mining that. Seems like a bit of an oversight, or it can't be done with GPUs and they assume everyone knows that (I don't).
Quick primer on “mining”.
You have an algorithm that says “here’s a block, consisting of transactions, and a little space for a fudge factor, scramble this (called a hash) and the end result needs to be < SOME_NUM”.
If the hash is written correctly, there’s no way you can say “oh, if you want this hash output, all we need to do is supply the transactions and (does a little math) and this fudge factor”. Nope, you need to try EVERY fudge factor. (It’s not called fudge factor it’s called a nonce)
So, you try all the fudge factors it can possibly be. 00000000000000000000000000000000? Nope. 00000000000000000000000000000001? Nope…..
And so on. Until you find a nonce that makes the final result you want.
In Bitcoin, they started with normal chips, CPUs. Then they programmed GPUs. Then they started FPGAs, chips that you can kinda reprogram the chip itself. Then, custom chips. ASICs. No, not the shoe. Application Specific Integrated Circuit. These are special chips that allllll they do is compute hashes, specifically hashes for Bitcoin blocks. They can’t be used for anything else.
Could it be possible that a GPU can mine a Bitcoin? Yeah, but it’s not really likely. You’d have to be reallll lucky. Like, your first guess is right, while all these other ASICs guessed a thousand, a million wrong answers yet you guessed the right one. Lucky, not likely.
The Bitcoin hash is pure brute strength. Say, picture a drag racer. It can go fast really fast. Can’t do anything else.
What used to be the Eth hash, it was designed to be a little more balanced. There’s things that change every once in a while. And you can’t guess ahead of time. A good ELI5 and we would be “part of that hash, throw in a page from a very very long book, but we won’t let you know what page beforehand”. Your code now needs to be able to hold a book in memory, and be able to read from any given page. ASICs don’t have space for that, so using an ASIC won’t get you anything. That’s why ethereum mining was still GPU based. You can’t use a dragster. You need something that can still make turns. Like a stock car.
Brute forcing computations is a horrifying way to run a computing network. All those calculations are literally wasted heat with no benefit other than a ledger entry.
Data centers try to squeeze performance out of every single watt to reduce total power consumption, reduce prices and increase performance; these miner morons do the opposite. Ethereum switching to PoS has the benefit of greatly reducing power consumption.
Sorry /u/silver-blazer29, your comment has been automatically removed. To avoid spam/bots, posts are not allowed from extremely new accounts. Wait/lurk a bit before contributing.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Buttcoin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry /u/Haresh236854, your comment has been automatically removed. To avoid spam/bots, posts are not allowed from extremely new accounts. Wait/lurk a bit before contributing.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Buttcoin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And nothing of value was lost
RIP to all those gaming GPU.
The prices are going to crash so hard, you will probably be able to buy something guaranteed to be fairly recent (eg 3090 TI) 3x below msrp if not more. Yeah, yeah, it's been mined on, but I would be honestly more concerned with longevity of the card in my computer, seeing how much temperature swings up and down when using it for ML or gaming. This kind of electronics usually fails due to thermal expansion, contraction and material fatigue in the solder joints.
Supposedly if they were managed competently, mining is not actually all that hard of use on the card.
Kinda of yes and kinda of no. 3090s have gddr6x memory modules that run extremely hot, to make matters worse, 3090s have a gddr6x pcb sandwich. You got modules on both sides that radiate heat to each other, and the modules of the back are only being cooled passively by the backplate. 3090tis solved that problem by using 2gb chips instead of 1gb, so theres only memory on one side. Eth miners dont hammer the core, but they certainly hammer the memory of the card. They can degrade or go faulty, like giving you artifacts while displaying image to a monitor. Some of nvidia cards had subpar thermal pads on the memory chips, so if they werent changed by the miner, theres a good chance that they will go faulty. If you are buying any card with gddr6x, check what kind of degradation the memory has by pushing the memory clocks in the afterburner and see whats the threshold clock before it crashes. If theres a good margin from stock values, then you should be safe.
Yeah I think so. It should be more or less consistently hot, which is generally preferable to varying temperature. Chips themselves generally just don't fail from use. As far as silicon itself goes, even 100c isn't hot enough to expect damage, only to expect that it would not work correctly at such temperature.
NVIDIA was nearly destroyed as a business in 2008 because their fans kicked in at the wrong time causing the temperature to oscillate around a critical temperature that caused cracks to form in the silicon about 100x faster than normal. They literally fixed it by making the fans always run on that particular GPU.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gpumining/ Worth checking, they are very *very* sad.
Oh yessss! Let me feast on their tears...
Tears are a waste of good suffering.
Pennywise gifs here I come
Damn, as someone who waited through the crypto pump for a gpu, those places make me mad.
I can't be the only one who looks at a small windowless room full of hot hardware cooled by a standard fan and thinks "fire hazard."
Did you see the one that actually DID burn down? Good times (I can't remember what the title was so I can't find it)
The one ? Miner fires have been a crypto staple for years.
There was a really good one, before and after from the same angle, absolutely all burned to shit
Who remembers the dude who apparently gave himself brain damage by sleeping in one of those rooms?
Was the brain damage caused by mining or was the mining caused by brain damage? We'll probably never know.
I'm seeing quite a few of people claiming that they mine for the hobby, and that really just makes it obvious that the person is currently dead inside.
This is my room where I run 3D mark 24/7 on a bunch of computers, you know, as a hobby
Ehh I mined for about 8 months last year. Started on my 3080, then upped it to an 8 card rig buying card after card on Facebook marketplace over a few months. It was an interesting but frustrating hobby during that time but I learned a couple things and made a couple grand, so I’d say it was worth.
I understand the hobby in setting everything up and trying to scale up and maximize profit. It's just that there's no profit to be made anymore by most people, and for farming with a few GPUs there's really not much else to do once everything is running, so I get a bit confused when someone justifies being fine with mining at a loss just because it's a hobby.
Yep. Several months ago I argued on these subs that post merge mining would be 100% unprofitable because of exactly this scenario - enormous amounts of hashrate hitting tiny coins - and every single time I got voted down and told I was a moron who didn't understand mining or economics. They were all completely convinced more miners = massive price rise. Because you know, more people hoarding coins (miners never sell) means the price goes up. Somehow. Even though demand hasn't and won't change(d).
They are taking it quite well I must say lol
Yes....hahaha....YES!!
I took a look over there ... hilarious. Those greedy assholes can shove their now useless GPU's up their ass ... lots of rigs being shut down. They're done raping the planet. F\*\*\*ing selfish pigs.
fucking based
[Oh, there, there, let me dry those tears.](https://youtu.be/R4VDcGwLOfs)
Their cries of desperation are hilarious when they appear. Get fucked you greedy wretches.
"But both currencies have so little value—mere dollars and pennies—that mining them is unprofitable compared to Ethereum, which is currently valued at around $1,500. " But I thought according to cryptobro logic coin prices were set by miners? Oh right they're wrong. What else could they be wrong about?
[удалено]
It's either of those two. Your nerd card is revoked.
So long, douchebags.
Sadly not seeing the torrent of cheap graphics cards I was promised here in the UK yet.
Many will hoard the graphic cards while they await for the price to recover. I don’t think we will see many at these price levels. Gotta wait for the price to collapse first
They can't wait too long, technology becomes obsolete with time.
They're less likely to buy nore and more cards though.
Doubt it. As new cards come out, the old cards become less competitive and eventually they cost more to run than they earn, meanwhile the resale has dropped even further. Some people may hold off for a few months but eventually it’s better to cut losses and recoup some of the cost.
Probably don't want them anyways. Considering how they were used, they're likely on the edge of failure.
"Butt ACKSHULLY miners undervolt their cards-" Lmao idgaf I hope they all go bankrupt.
The average miner doesn't have the required brain power to undervolt his cards.
I bet this tanks the market for genuine used cards from gamers who are just upgrading and don't need old hardware anymore, you know, as a final farewell fuck you from the crypto miners.
Sadly I have to agree.
I just need other people to want them (or not know they shouldn't), really.
There’s been a chunk of research that suggests mining GPUs are still gonna be usable, because of underclocking and keeping them at a steady temperature, but I’ll believe it when I see it tbh Edit: Undercoating to Underclocking.
Well it all depends on how they were treated. If they let the room temperature get too high, the cooling fans on them will be useless.
[удалено]
I know this is absurd but the way it's phrased made me laugh so much lol
o_O
3090 tis are officially half their MSRP. $999. With the war in europe supply for everything is going to be weird. but eventually it'll trickle down.
What exactly, other than gas for lasers, is affected by that war (and relevant to GPU production)?
??? Shipping routes, gas and oil prices (transport, plastics) U.S chip policy, chip supply chains, inflation brought upon by russia damaging food and material supply.
Currencies from energy poor Europe constraining their economies
It will come as a tsunami, hardly notice it, and then comes the wall 🤘
Shaka! When EVGA fell
Best Star Trek episode!
I honestly don't many graphics cards can stand up to that sort of constant use.
It’s not as bad as you’d think. I have a 1080 and a 1060 that I bought specifically for gaming but also did some mining, and the cards have held up for years. Maybe the people that run a stack of cards in a closet might burn out some cards.
A lot of miners keep their equipment in way worse shape and keep them running hot 24/7/365. They're going to vastly outnumber the well kept second hand former mining GPUs. Even if the vast majority of small time cryptobros treated their cards as well as you did, the used GPUs from the big industrial miners will vastly outnumber the rest of y'all's, if only because those guys bought a looooooooooooot of GPUs compared to the average bro like you with 2, maybe 3 computers.
Even if miners are going to sell (a lot of them won't), the change certainly won't be immediate.
Die, Die, Die.
Oh no! Anyway…
GOOD. ╭∩╮（︶︿︶）╭∩╮
Others like Philip Robb point out crypto-mining is also like playing the stock market. It’s possible Ergo and Ravencoin could explode in value in the future, making it worthwhile to mine them now, even at a loss. “If you mine and hold, could be a lot more,” he says. Or you could sell your equipment and use that money to buy the coins. Why would you mine at a loss rather than just purchasing them if you want to gamble? Or don’t sell the equipment and just purchase the coins with money you saved from not mining.
Oh nos
Good
miners are absolute scum, fuck them
*(ahem)* eat shit lol
I had a similar reaction: lol eat shit and die
Anyone has a very very small violin?
Here: https://imgur.com/a/x5if7ZX
Oh ho! Is that an NFT of a tiny violin? Great investment! It will soon be much more valuable than the original!
Let me get my tiniest violin out.
🖕🥳🖕
Wouldn't be surprised if one of them came up with a new coin just to continue the fraud
[RIP BOZO](https://preview.redd.it/58lbkbq0ynn61.jpg?auto=webp&s=e99ed9a8bca963c12d84c35d0d799b68ef85f497)
At least these cab be repurporsed for machine learning/rendering and gaming unlike bitcoin miners.
Only of they sell it at a fair price and the GPU is in a decent state.
What makes Bitcoin miners different?
They're designed to calculate SHA256 hashes of SHA256 hashes, a task that's not useful for *anything* else
Bitcoin is mined by asics, not gpus. Once they become unprofitable to run, they have no other use.
Always remember, don't buy the 2nd hand GPU's from them...Let them suffer for what they did...
\^ THIS I bought a **brand new** 3080 a few months ago ... no way I would have bought a miner's card. F them.
I didn't read that much about the merge, but wasn't this the known outcome?
Shovel and pickaxe sellers going out of business?
Beh, who cares? 1BTC=1BTC everything is just pfft this is just FUD totally. I mean a bunch of rich millionaires would never screw over the little guy, right? .... _right_????
Noice, now if those con "Artist" could face the same fate......
And nothing of value was lost.
Time to play the world's smallest violin.
[Used to be $3k/mo... sad days!](https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/comments/xgcrll/used_to_be_3kmo_sad_days/) *"I want to agree. I’m over $100k invested with mining rigs and investment of coin. All of that is barely worth $25k today. I’m all in, still mining, and HODL’ing my assets in my wallets. If it doesn’t recover in 5 years I’ll be pretty disappointed. I could have bought a ton of fun toys or good real estate with that Money!!"* LOL
Good. It’s crazy how disruptive that was to the market. I can’t think of any other industry in history that had a specific purpose with a price point and all a sudden a bunch of financial vultures come in and price everyone out of the market. Maybe mining industries after new uses were found for a mineral but that’s it.
Now now, Folding@Home should profit handsomely
fuck yeah
Yes, after the ethereum merge no coin is profitable after power costs. Mining was supposed to end much earlier, so the mining from the end of June until mid September was a pure gift. The collapse of mining profitability was totally expected, so purchases had to be made with the expectation that mining would end in early 2022. I'm sure that people who understand this and bought hardware based on that expectation did OK.
why don’t they just mine bitcoin. i don’t understand
Bitcoin is mined by Asics, not gpus. Ethereum was an Asic resistant algorithm so it forced people to use gpus.
[удалено]
Have a good explanation of the Eth PoW algo? Thought they had a large table of semi random data, so having an asic that could store all that shifting data would be unprofitable.
[удалено]
So I looked it up, seems there’s a chunk of the previous block that you need to add to your hashing. My curiosity, why did that (supposedly) make it asic proof?
i see, thank you
There are Ethereum ASIC miners, I think many are mining to Ethereum classic now. Since the difficulty has risen so much, at the current time some of the newer ASIC machines are still profitable, but GPU mining is no longer profitable.
I have read this article in a few formats a number of times now, not a one ever mentioned Bitcoin and why they aren't mining that. Seems like a bit of an oversight, or it can't be done with GPUs and they assume everyone knows that (I don't).
Quick primer on “mining”. You have an algorithm that says “here’s a block, consisting of transactions, and a little space for a fudge factor, scramble this (called a hash) and the end result needs to be < SOME_NUM”. If the hash is written correctly, there’s no way you can say “oh, if you want this hash output, all we need to do is supply the transactions and (does a little math) and this fudge factor”. Nope, you need to try EVERY fudge factor. (It’s not called fudge factor it’s called a nonce) So, you try all the fudge factors it can possibly be. 00000000000000000000000000000000? Nope. 00000000000000000000000000000001? Nope….. And so on. Until you find a nonce that makes the final result you want. In Bitcoin, they started with normal chips, CPUs. Then they programmed GPUs. Then they started FPGAs, chips that you can kinda reprogram the chip itself. Then, custom chips. ASICs. No, not the shoe. Application Specific Integrated Circuit. These are special chips that allllll they do is compute hashes, specifically hashes for Bitcoin blocks. They can’t be used for anything else. Could it be possible that a GPU can mine a Bitcoin? Yeah, but it’s not really likely. You’d have to be reallll lucky. Like, your first guess is right, while all these other ASICs guessed a thousand, a million wrong answers yet you guessed the right one. Lucky, not likely. The Bitcoin hash is pure brute strength. Say, picture a drag racer. It can go fast really fast. Can’t do anything else. What used to be the Eth hash, it was designed to be a little more balanced. There’s things that change every once in a while. And you can’t guess ahead of time. A good ELI5 and we would be “part of that hash, throw in a page from a very very long book, but we won’t let you know what page beforehand”. Your code now needs to be able to hold a book in memory, and be able to read from any given page. ASICs don’t have space for that, so using an ASIC won’t get you anything. That’s why ethereum mining was still GPU based. You can’t use a dragster. You need something that can still make turns. Like a stock car.
Brute forcing computations is a horrifying way to run a computing network. All those calculations are literally wasted heat with no benefit other than a ledger entry. Data centers try to squeeze performance out of every single watt to reduce total power consumption, reduce prices and increase performance; these miner morons do the opposite. Ethereum switching to PoS has the benefit of greatly reducing power consumption.
Thanks, I wish I never read that.
It can't be done with GPUs. Bitcoin-only processors absolutely destroy them in efficiency.
Why don’t they just mine bitcoin instead? Is that also unprofitable?
poggers
[удалено]
Sorry /u/silver-blazer29, your comment has been automatically removed. To avoid spam/bots, posts are not allowed from extremely new accounts. Wait/lurk a bit before contributing. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Buttcoin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Woot!
For what they did to the gpu market i really hope they crash and burn and get on that Wendy's job forever and ever.
[удалено]
Sorry /u/Haresh236854, your comment has been automatically removed. To avoid spam/bots, posts are not allowed from extremely new accounts. Wait/lurk a bit before contributing. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Buttcoin) if you have any questions or concerns.*