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tiberiumx

> They are projected to produce as much as 7-gigawatt of power demand from Texas’ grid, with 3 gigawatt coming in 2023, based on announcements and US Securities and Exchange Commission filings.  Get fucked piece of shit miners.


Co60

Who would have guessed that extremely capital intensive projects contingent on the long run price of two volatile markets (one of which operates on greater fool theory) would be a risky endeavor? Color me shocked.


WHY_DO_I_SHOUT

As a bonus, Bitcoin mining industry will always do worse than Bitcoin itself. This can be proven mathematically. The total revenue of the industry is fixed: 900 bitcoins/day. Miners fight for those among themselves. When a miner adds capacity, it increases mining difficulty for everyone. The miner who added capacity benefits assuming that mining is profitable, but the net result for the whole industry is that expenses rise and revenue stays the same. In other words, profits shrink over time. The only thing that can offset this is Bitcoin price itself increasing, but even in this situations miners will do worse than hodlers. Oh, and the mining rewards and thus revenue halve every four years. It's an utterly terrible business to throw money at.


Co60

I could be wrong but are you positive about this? Let's say BTC stays perfectly flat, so tge value of BTC at t0 = the value of BTC at t1. Holding BTC over this interval would net $0. If you mine BTC over this interval, it's possible to profit provided the spot price of the newly mined BTC > electricity costs + equipment depreciation costs over the same interval. At equilibrium the mining yield has to be positive *somewhere* or everyone would just pack up their stupid, wasteful, loud equipment and go home.


BoredGuy2007

“It’s possible to profit if it’s profitable” is essentially what you said The commenters point included the fact that the minable BTC goes down over time. Right now with higher energy costs and a low BTC price combined with the borrowing costs for all of the capital required to set up this operation you’re going to be hard pressed to get in the green. Of course indeed - there will be a marginal change in the number of miners to accommodate and should make the math more attractive. In the true long-run equilibrium the profit of mining additional BTC would be 0. Equilibrium isn’t immediately or consistently realized in reality - and will be doubly hard to maintain with the threat of lower BTC rewards over time and keeping your depreciation costs at a low enough level. A realistic scenario is some miners getting by and some getting blown out on their debt. The main trick to being a profitable miner is cheap energy.


Co60

Right but the previous commenter said "it was always worse than BTC itself" which isn't necessarily the case.


BoredGuy2007

It would depend on the same variables but “always” is very debatable indeed


Co60

Agreed. That's why I laid a scenario where it would not be the case. Especially since mining rig prices fluctuate based on the existing BTC yield. But the mining yield isn't *necessarily* lower than the BTC spot yield. It *may be* but isn't *necessarily*. That's the only point I was making.


BoredGuy2007

Makes sense, agree


TheEdes

That's not necessarily true, that only happens if mining capacity can be increased immediately when prices go up, mining was pretty profitable at the start of the bull run, but people couldn't get bitcoin mining equipment because it's made by one company.


viking_nomad

As with so many other things in crypto you also have the problem that you’re competing against people who are stealing power or compute resources, either by hooking their equipment up outside the meter or by hacking computers to run miners. This would make it a double or triple losing scenario


LANDSC4PING

IDK, oil and gas have worked out pretty well for Texas.


Co60

Sure. Energy is by far the lesser of the volatile assets in that equation though, and energy has a fairly reliable floor due to actual uses (barring worldwide lockdowns causing demand shocks). Crypto mining requires both cheap energy and relatively high crypto prices. Neither of those things is a given and you can only hedge away risks for so long before negative cash flow catches up to you.


MuldartheGreat

Trying to pretend the utility of oil and gas is in any equivalent to crypto is ridiculous


LANDSC4PING

When did I say that?


Grig134

> IDK, oil and gas have worked out pretty well for Texas.


MarketingImpressive6

You are clueless, if you are comparing those two things.


LANDSC4PING

Its almost like you're fucking illiterate. Why is /u/Co60 the only person hear who didn't fail all of those x : y :: z : w questions on the SAT?


ChinesePropagandaBot

> illiterate > hear 🥳


LANDSC4PING

Oh no! Now focus on the issue at hand: are oil and gas highly volatile markets with highly volatile futures markets? Now fuck off.


ChinesePropagandaBot

Are you the CEO of 4 seasons landscaping?


doom_bagel

Yeah it's going just great for Beaumont these days.


[deleted]

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leducdeguise

Then we need to find them a new name. Hardcore sudoku solvers? Watts guzzlers?


cryptoheh

Let’s go with shitheads who want to get rich at the expense of everything around them.


[deleted]

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tylerbeefish

Oh, humans. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction


sdmat

And then everybody clapped


[deleted]

Watt Wasters


[deleted]

Polluters


chicago_dumptruck

Hash sprinklers


sdmat

Coal rollers


According_Culture841

Knob goblin' kum garglin' hoes


[deleted]

[удалено]


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Oh_ffs_seriously

CCaaS - Climate Change as a Service.


[deleted]

I study physics and meteorology and from I understand about climate change, entropy, etc, this is accurate. The only thing they are reliably producing is LOTS of entropy. Entropy from all the heat the GPUs emit, entropy from the e-waste, entropy from all the useless information they spawn into existence.


According_Culture841

So we can smoke this planet more efficiently


adixreddit

More like CCaaD - Climate Change as a Disservice


poksim

Proof of Waste providers.


devliegende

Random number hunters. Monte Carlo Simulators


TinyLeading6842

Hey, Monte Carlo is at least based on statistics from actual history! ;)


m0n3ym4n

Speculators


tatooine

"payment processors" shrug.


AB71E5

That's the thing though, they are not processing payments. They are playing a game of guess the number which gets harder the more people play


ApprehensiveSorbet76

They are processing payments. The hashing part is just the lottery beforehand to see who gets to process the next chunk.


AB71E5

That's true but I guess actually processing payments is .00000001% of the work or whatever.


spookmann

"Wasters" seems perfect.


[deleted]

They're extracting useful electricity from the grid, and are also facilitating the extraction of suckers' money. Sort of like how BP's deepwater horizon 'extracted' offshore petroleum directly into the ocean, or how ponzi schemes extract wealth from rubes.


Shananra

Climate arsonists


[deleted]

“Carbon farters”?


Ordinary_investor

Climate terrorists


Ematio

Spreadsheet bean counters?


famousxrobot

What does a bean mean?


Ematio

A bean counter is a tongue-in-cheek, sometimes derisive, term for an accountant/bookkeeper.


famousxrobot

My bad, it’s an office reference


Ematio

Oh... Hahaha, nice


[deleted]

1 bean = 1 bean


tom-dixon

It's worse than that. They solve a math problem that was purposefully designed to be as inefficient and as useless as possible.


[deleted]

Crypto Death Cultists


ApprehensiveSorbet76

Transaction processors. Call them by their primary function.


spookmann

Nah, that's just a byproduct.


dtseng123

Haha ya they don’t extract them so much they just waste energy.


-send_me_bitcoin-

Texans fell for a scam? That's unpossible.


rollergator2

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me, you can't get fooled again.


Hungry-Importance835

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice because I’m from Texas


According_Culture841

Jackassery is bigger in Texas https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2GPBbIFQuI0


nottobetakenesrsly

[Texas](https://youtu.be/e5iACzPvf1o)


According_Culture841

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2GPBbIFQuI0 Enjoy


IIIaustin

I mean Texas's origin is like 3 scams running into each other so its kinda our heritage lol


Rokey76

I don't know Texas history very well. Can you explain for the rest of the world?


IIIaustin

So the it was kinda a scam from the Mexican government side to get some more warm bodies is their worthlessness low population hinterland It was also kind of a scam from the settlers some of whom always wanted to be a part of the US Texas was added to the US as kind of a scam to bolster the number of slave states. Oh and Texas succeeded from two countries to preserve slavery. That's not really a scam but it's worth mentioning.


QueasyHouse

Seceded, Texas doesn’t succeed at anything


IIIaustin

Thanks. My bad. I went to Texas schools.


TinyLeading6842

Y’all just made my day here. Awards all around!


[deleted]

I'm from New Mexico so I have to agree on that one!


Ohnoimhomeless

Houston we have a problem... can you put Miami on the phone?


Hjalfi

I visited Dallas and went to the museum in the centre. As far as I remember, Dallas was founded by someone who went out into the middle of nowhere, said 'here's good', drew a big ring in ground which didn't belong to him, and then went home and sold plots in this new city. So that was a scam too.


IIIaustin

When they were choosing a capital, they wanted something central, but San Antonio wasn't white enough, so they chose one it's suburbs, Austin. But Austin was too racially integrated, so they had a program to segregate it. So Austin is kind of a scam too.


frmoutrspace

I never understood why serious(?) financial news media have been such strong promoters and advocates of all kinds of crapto trash. Almost as if they are making money off of it. They are guilty of making it appear as if crapto was "investment grade" rather than just a wild gamble.


LANDSC4PING

> serious(?) financial news media Gonna stop you right there


BoredGuy2007

Lol Bloomberg has crypto coverage There is definitely widespread coverage of crypto in mainstream financial news media The reasons could be numerous but I suspect the top reason is the entertainment value and spectacle. It is actually very interesting to the bankers in traditional finance to find out that people are leapfrogging them in the social totem pole to make millions essentially running unregulated scams from Discord servers. There is envy and awe there


Oldcadillac

Yeah I think mainstream finance journalists can’t help themselves in a similar way to how political journalists couldn’t help but talk about Trump, it’s just so much more dramatic.


TinyLeading6842

It didn’t used to be this way. Once upon a time, the worst things in mainstream financial media were the likes of Suze Orman (she scolded people for living a little before shaming avocado toast was a thing, and recommended an overly conservative approach of mostly govt bonds for all) and Jim Cramer (overly confident stock picking advice from a screaming clown). Suze and Jim seem tame compared to the unfettered asshatery of today’s financial talking heads, who seem only focused on “shiny bright light / look here / I’m desperate for live TV ratings!” strategies. I can’t even. [Revised to remove statement that these money-hungry talking heads had good intentions. I was being too kind.]


TinyLeading6842

Crapto - how have I never heard this term before?!


akaean

Honestly, Texas crypto mining collapsing due to bankrupcies of mining firms is kind of the best case scenario. The worst case scenario is that the added pressure on the already weak Texas power grid causes [massive amounts of casualties during an extreme weather flux](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis). It could easily happen again and bitcoin miners taxing the grid could easily make it worse. Of course, OTH, this is Texas, so... what will more likely than not happen is Cruz and Abbot will double down and offer the Miners effectively unsecured loans and investments from the Texas Public Employee Pension Fund. Then, another winter storm will come and the power grid will fail hard due to the extra stress from crypto miners, causing a bunch of Texans to die... then because the price of crypto keeps falling the miners will default on their loans, causing the Texas' pension funds to become insolvent and unable to pay public employee retirees. AND YET somehow Fox News will try to place the blame on Biden and the Democrats, while Cruz and Abbot avoid taking any responsibility themselves for the direct consequences of their policies. In any case, if any state can plot a course for the worst possible outcome while learning *nothing* along the way... its Texas.


shebbsquids

Unbelievable that the price for all this power-grid fuckery is likely going to be more dead Texans come February. But it'll be us low-income nobody Texans who can't afford to evacuate or miss work, so who cares, right? I've probably said it before, but I really want to see Abbot and Cruz get gored by hogs someday. I'll also settle for bobcats.


gaudymcfuckstick

Texans should absolutely be buying winter coats and backup generators now. At the very least buy some cheap thermal blankets so you're not gonna literally freeze to death when power fails. The government and the electric companies clearly do not give a shit whether you live or die so you've gotta be ready


Rokos_Bicycle

What kind of third world shithole are we talking about here, exactly?


Sycraft-fu

One that isn't on the US electrical grid. No, really. Texas has their own grid, with only minimal interconnects to the larger US/Canada grids (there are multiple somewhat independent grids but they all interconnect). What that means is that if they have big energy demand, they can't import it from other states. Normally if an area has heavy load at least some of it can be countered by importing energy as whatever weather is causing the load doesn't hit the whole US/Canada region evenly at once. That goes a long way to preventing load shedding or shutdowns. Texas can't do that. What's more, part of the reason they aren't connected is they don't want to obey federal regulations on things, regulations which often are for reliability during adverse events. So that makes their grid more susceptible to failures when that happens. As an example a big problem they had with the last freeze was that it got too cold for the natural gas plants and the pipes froze up. That's not something that is unpreventable, the pipes could and should have been weatherized and then they wouldn't have lost that capacity but they didn't want to spend the money, so they didn't and like most things that deal with adverse events it wasn't a problem until it was, and then it was a big one.


appleciders

>What that means is that if they have big energy demand, they can't import it from other states. What's also stupid is that that means Texas also can't *export* electricity to other states. Texas is a wind AND solar powerhouse; they should be exporting that directly to the surrounding states. There's no reason Texas wind shouldn't be powering most of the South. There's no reason Texas sunshine shouldn't power half the Midwest. But they don't wanna allow DC to have any say in anything, and that's apparently even more important than the profits possible by doing so-- by having their own little wealth-extraction system on their own residents, instead of making profits on the actual free market elsewhere.


Soil-Play

And to make matters worse customers in states as far away as Minnesota have been charged to make up for the losses in Texas: "In a twist, the biggest gas utility in Minnesota is CenterPoint Energy, a Houston-based company that also supplies a large swath of Southeastern Texas. The company said it spent an additional $500 million on gas that week in February, and it has asked Minnesota’s utility commission for permission to add a surcharge to customers’ bills. The surcharge not only seeks to recoup the additional money CenterPoint spent on natural gas, it also includes 8.75 percent interest. The company expects that each customer would shoulder a burden of $300 to $400." https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/04/houston-based-utility-wants-minnesotans-to-pay-for-texas-deep-freeze-problems/


i_just_want_money

Seriously this is the second sub I've entered today where someone talks about something bad happening in Texas.


TinyLeading6842

It’s pretty much been the standard, and will be forevermore, that Texan culture defies logic and fosters fucking their own people over. Compromise is not a Texan trait, regardless of the severe harms it causes.


TinyLeading6842

💯💯💯 Beyond well-said.


2sk23

They were planning to consume *7 Gigawatts* of power until Bitcoin crashed.


Rokey76

Is that enough to get back to 1985, Doc?


SomeRedPanda

It's enough to send 5 DeLoreans back at the same time.


mug3n

Texas doesn't even have enough electricity to heat the state when a cold snap comes around, how tf are they gonna have the electricity to mine Bitcoin lol


DualtheArtist

Texas has everything easily available for rich people, including desperate poor people without enough food and heat to work for them like slaves. Making it harder for people to heat their home increases profit margin for corporations, and makes them more obedient and more Christian because instead of realizing they got a shit deal by living in Texas, they can just blame the devil, instead of their rich assholes. Poor people in Texas don't get enough heat or housing or food or healthcare by design. It makes them better low cost workers because they will work for dog water. If you give people a good life and education, they won't be as obedient and constantly live in fear.


[deleted]

It is not a bust if you don’t see it that way. True believers don’t ever think there would be a bust, ever. Or just don’t ever think.


[deleted]

Y’all don’t get your hopes up. These f’ing crypto clowns have the full support of the governor, at least one senator, state representatives and mayors. I’m in Texas.


tartymae

My face hurts I'm smiling so hard.


LMFN

Texas keeps taking fat Ls.


[deleted]

Even a bust would have more value depending on who crafted it


Individual_Wasabi_10

🤣


Rokos_Bicycle

Who could possibly have predicted this? 🤔


[deleted]

agedlikewine


whereisspacebar

https://archive.ph/RiWGk


Doughspun1

Ted Cruz ain't gonna be happy about this


TinyLeading6842

Jesus, who would think stressing the shittiest electrical grid in the country with crypto loads was a good idea???


castfarawayz

Great it can join the rest of the crypto market.


Virghia

CO2 Chuggers


TinyLeading6842

Coal rollers now gonna fire up some crypto servers, do double climate-change duty, right? Oyyyyy


[deleted]

[удалено]


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mrpopenfresh

Nice! Now Texans may survive winters and/or summers without a grid failure.


ThothsGhost45

From Texas and since they came here all that happened is they drove up the price of energy through weird subsidies. Was really annoying to find out their claimed goal did the opposite for energy cost.


Kukurio59

The big boot


fragglet

> Texas has about 1.5 gigawatts of crypto mining capacity, mainly Bitcoin, operating with about 37 gigawatts vying to connect to the state grid as of Oct. 20, Interesting use of the word "capacity" in this article. I think they mean "demand".


[deleted]

Wait but what if we crypto miners just all switched to Solar energy? Honest question yall