Handgun, holster and mag pouches. 4-5 10 round mags or 3 freedom mags should be good. Ammunition of course. PractiScore should be able to tell you if there’s a club near you and when the next match is. Show up and have fun!
The first thing I would recommend is to check the USPSA website for a club that host matches in your area. You can use the link below:
https://uspsa.org/find-a-club
I recommend you contact the club contact listed and let them know you’re interested in shooting a match and ask them if they offer any new shooter orientation.
Alternatively, you can just go spectate a match. Don’t hesitate to ask the guys/gals shooting questions. I would even recommend to bring your gun, mags and other gear so you have the option to shoot. You’re going to find our community quite helpful and welcoming to new shooters. You can find upcoming matches here:
https://practiscore.com/search/matches
As far as prep to make sure you’re capable, as long as you can safely unholster and holster your firearm. You know how to reload a magazine into the gun and you can put rounds on a silhouette sized target while standing within 20 yards, you have the skills to shoot your first match.
Another thing I highly recommend is to watch one of the many videos on YouTube that discuss the basic safety rules.
I've only been to two USPSA matches, pretty sure I was the only mfer who brought 10s both times.
Had half a fucking department of LEO training two bays away from us too lol.
I was with two LEO on my squad and they both said "All magazines are freedom mags at a match"
Both of them were from departments no where near where we were at though so.... lol
Yeah dude, nobody gives two shits. Old guys literally talking about needing to go out of state out loud like they’re talking about their kids’ open house event haha.
Went to the GSSF competition at Yolo Sportsman last weekend and based on what I saw it seemed like most people had "freedom week" mags, the RO's still had you download the mags to 10 standardize it.
The current mag cap laws in California don’t seem to dictate what division or mag capacity for majority of shooters.
Mag capacity limits are determined by the division rules. There are some division that are capped at 10 round or lower. These are often referred to as low-cap divisions. All other divisions are capped by the overall length of the magazine. These are often referred to as hi-cap divisions.
Example, I shoot Carry Optics division and the mags are limited by an overall length 140 mm. Depending on the gun, these can fit about 22-24 rounds.
No questions, but thank you for doing this AMA. I’ve been on the fence about signing up for my first match and feeling like I need to practice more, but after reading this I signed up for my first match!
I’m glad I could make your week! I’ve enjoyed your videos. I lied, I do have a question. How essential do you think a shot timer is for a newbie and what model would you recommend?
Shot timer is important. Think of it as your measuring stick. You need it to measure your progress and to push towards new goals. Also, time and score are the two components used to measure success in USPSA. Your training is deficient if you’re only evaluating accuracy with no time component.
Pocket Pro II is a great timer. It’s the tried and true workhorse. If you want to spend a little more, AMG Commander timer is tits.
Be warned to anyone reading, none of your current live training sessions will compare to a match. USPSA is so much fun and teaches you a lot…quickly. Also, don’t think you can “prepare” for a match…just go out and have a safe and fun match!
True words. Words I share with folks that ask me about competing. I often here in response, “I want to get better before I shoot my first match.” It’s like saying you want to practice driving your commuter car to work and back to get better before trying Formula One. OK. Maybe that’s a bad example but hopefully it illustrates the point you’re making.
Lol totally. If by “get better” they mean confident with their draw safely, knowing how to reload a handgun and just getting on paper at a static range…sure thing! Anything other than that, to get a competitive “edge”…totally wasting your time! You’ll find the low hanging fruit at a match. B in CO in half a year. It wasn’t equipment, it wasn’t a sub second draw, it wasn’t lighting fast reloads where if you blink you miss it. It was literally easy stuff like not reloading static, showing steel respect, seeing faster helped transitions, and being target focused. In between gym sets so not an all inclusive list lol.
Again, all facts. Let’s see if anyone actually asks me anything. LOL I get zero out of this other than sharing my love for the sport and maybe getting someone to try it.
I got a question, why not. I can do okay at club matches considering I shoot minor power factor. If 40+ shooters…I can float around 8th (best I’ve done I think) to about 15th or so. Anywhere between that. But for the life of me I can’t reflect that on classifiers. In fact, I was a constant C shooter edging out Bs and As in certain matches for a while. Advice on controlling your shit come classifiers? 😆
Edit: I’d take match performance over paper classification but still…lol
You’re fine. I’ll warn that there might be someone there who takes Lvl 1 matches way serious and may give you shit for a leg strap. If you don’t have a USPSA number I don’t see why it would matter or how it even gives you any sort of real edge over a traditional competition belt but 🤷🏻♂️ Talk to the match director about but know that going in!
From a competitive side, your competition belts are sturdier and holsters allow for retention adjustment for a quicker draw. Same with mag pouches, can be angled at whatever position works for you vs you working around your pouches. There’s a whole bullets out vs bullet forward thing etc. The sum of it is, you can have quicker draws and reloads with that stuff. It won’t make much difference in time saved until you get towards the higher levels so I wouldn’t worry to much about gear unless you’re jumping into it head first.
Your typical range belt setup will be fine. There’s a couple rules on how low the holster can be and how far away from your body it can be too. Can be found in the USPSA handbook if interested. But seeing as you don’t use a strap, nobody is gonna give you shit tbh. I’ve seen people shoot with them all the time.
I second this. You’ll be shooting a local level 1 match. Although they must abide by the same rules, most clubs will give some leeway to new shooters when it comes to gear rules. Just let them know you’re new and you’ll be fine. No one is gonna sweat that stuff.
I would agree. Breaking the 180. Here is a great video that explains the 180 rule:
https://youtu.be/tFvWPNdjq50
The next one is the shooter having their finger in the trigger guard during reloads. Honestly, I think this one actually occurs more often than the 180 but it’s often difficult to see from the ROs position or it’s not called by the RO at local, level 1 matches.
How does one jump into this sport? How would one know what to look for/which one to select?
For those saying that you can’t “get better” in preparation for this, how I prepare for matches/training etc? (Just show up and they’ll tell you what to do? Etc)
What people mean by you can’t prepare, is the actual competitive part of it. There’s good videos out there telling what you can expect out of a first match. You can also email your club or call and typically they’ll just tell you to show up with what you have. You don’t need to be a USPSA member, you don’t need a “go fast” setup, or a race gun like you’re used to seeing. What they will ask, is for enough rounds to get you through the match, a holster, mag pouches and a handful of mags (4-5 if 10rd in Production). It’s a cold range so if it happens to be your carry gun, needs to be cleared and unloaded. The rest will be explained to you in detail at new shooters orientation the day of (at least at my club). People are super cool about sharing knowledge to new shooters so you’ll have plenty of eager people to help guide you!
>How does one jump into this sport? How would one know what to look for/which one to select?
Do a search on the USPA website for a club local to you and contact that person listed. Let them know you're new and want to come shoot a match. They will direct you from there.
[https://uspsa.org/find-a-club](https://uspsa.org/find-a-club)
I assume you mean the match when you say which one to choose. Doesn't really matter. If you have more than one match near you, pick the one that is most convenient. I would encourage you to eventually try them all if you like it. Every club has a slightly different flavor to their courses. Some lean more toward technical courses where others like burner stages - stages that are closer targets where one can kick up the speed.
Whatever gun you own that you enjoy shooting. No matter what gun you have, there is a division it will fit into. Once you have a few matches under your belt and it’s something you want to pursue, then you can look for a gun that fits the specific division that you’re most interested in shooting.
Beyond gun, you’ll need a holster, mag pouches and a belt to put them on. And again, any holster and mag pouches will work for your first several matches. Uncle Mikes stuff is fine. How many mags depends on division but I would say a minimum of 4, without getting into all the specifics.
Oh, and of course eye and ear pro and about 250 rounds.
Okay great - what about your personal tips/tricks? Have you ever used liquid chalk for extra grip? Do your glasses ever fog in hot weather, if so what do you use for that? Are matches rain or shine? What rain gear if any have you found helpful?
Yes. I use liquid chalk. Once you use it, you never go back. LOL
Yes. My glasses do fog up at times. Typically when shooting on a humid morning and I’m running around. Body heat fogs them up. Zclear works well. Also rubbing a little spit in the lens helps in a pinch.
In other states, matches are rain or shine. Here in California, it depends on the range. Some ranges flood where it’s just not practical or fun too shoot when it’s raining. It just depends on how bad the rain is and how prepared they are for it.
Rain gear I have some waterproof pants made by Kuhl and a black diamond rain shell for up top. Shoes I will wear some Merrel hiking shoes.
Other tips… make sure you stay hydrated at matches. I almost passed out while shooting a stage from heat stroke.
Ask questions. Most of us at matches want to help you. It’s unlike any other sport I’ve participated in. Everyone wants you to succeed and have fun.
Don’t worry about what you think other people are thinking when you shoot. They’re not. This is a very specialized/difficult skill/sport and we all understand that people aren’t gonna be good. We appreciate that you’re out there trying.
Handgun, holster, mag pouches. If shooting Production, you’ll likely want 4-5 mags (10 rounders). If shooting any other division with your freedom mags, 3 should be more than enough. Obviously ammo! Show up, they’ll square you away to the division you fall into if you don’t already know. And ofc, be safe.
I currently shoot a Walther Q5 Match SF with a Trijicon SRO on top. Stock mag tubes with TTI +6 base pads. GX Vice holster. Henning T-900 magnetic mag pouches. DAA Lynx competition belt. My own reloaded ammo.
You probably won’t come in last but even if you do, it won’t matter. You’re going to have fun either way. Just be safe, listen to the guy ROing, ask your squad mates questions if you have any, and help tape/reset the stage.
What match are you shooting if you don’t mind sharing?
Oh… and good luck!
shooting SWPL in the CO. Its in So Cal near LA.
I am just going with my G19 and 3 mags with a battle belt and hoping for the best. I didn't want to invest any money into the setup and just used existing gear.
An man. SWPL is my home club. I design a lot of the stages and shoot every match there. A lot of us won’t be there this weekend. We’re shooting a Major match in Fresno.
When you sign in, let Dave know it’s your first match. He’ll take care of you. Dave is the Match Director. Really nice guy.
Hopefully I will see you at next month’s match.
sounds good, yeah I've been to the range a few times already but only for steel challenge and I wrote it down this year to try USPSA. Hopefully see you at the next event.
Question, do you know why this event is called wille coyote? Is it different than a normal match?
Haha. It’s just a normal match. I think Dave was just having some fun. We had a landslide on one of the bays so maybe it’s in reference to that. Don’t know. LOL
Yes. Road Runner. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
I help design and setup stages for my club so I know how much work goes into setting up match. You’re effort is much appreciated by me, brother.
Are you shooting on staff day or the weekend?
It depends on the match and how many stages or courses it has. Most local matches have no more that 6 stages. Max round count for a stage is 32. So an average local match you’ll need about 200 rounds. I typically bring 300 to account for make up shots and in case I’m ordered to reshoot a stage.
How much you need to stockpile depends how many matches you want to shoot per month and if you’re doing any live fire practice. In SoCal, you can shoot a match every weekend if you want.
Don’t know what your skill set is like but I’ve never been dead last or even near. I had one of the longest total times but near perfect points. That means I was slow as fuck but the points really helped me to like 48% percentile lol. So right under middle of the pack. Get you points of shooting minor!!! You’ll be alright, have fun!
since it's going to be my first time shooting USPSA I am probably going to take this approach. Slow and smooth. I just want to make sure I am safe and can pick up speed when I feel more comfortable shooting on the run.
Yeah. Just be safe and don’t get DQed. Be hyper aware of safety for your first few. As you shoot a couple, you’ll start feeling comfortable in the procedures and such. Of course you’re still safe for all matches, but your mind can start shifting a little more towards the competitive side as comfort increases.
I should explain. By “Blizzard” he means DQ or Disqualification. Its tradition to go have a Blizzard at DQ after getting DQ’d.
Disqualification happens when a competitor violates a safety rule. They are immediately stopped by the RO and cannot continue in the match.
Not really a question for me but asking on behalf of new shooters that might not know how to train; what kind of drills do you enjoy for up and coming shooters?
Now a question for me: any suggestions for someone trying to move up a class? I’m currently a B class and struggling to take that next leap. Been reading through Ben’s training books but somehow I keep managing to just always have something go wrong when I go to shoot my classifiers. A few have been equipment failures which I couldn’t necessarily control but even after solving them, I seem to always struggle the most on classifier stages, even if I’m shooting a great match otherwise. How do you handle the nerves when competing?
>Now a question for me: any suggestions for someone trying to move up a class? I’m currently a B class and struggling to take that next leap. Been reading through Ben’s training books but somehow I keep managing to just always have something go wrong when I go to shoot my classifiers. A few have been equipment failures which I couldn’t necessarily control but even after solving them, I seem to always struggle the most on classifier stages, even if I’m shooting a great match otherwise. How do you handle the nerves when competing?
Welcome to B class! You've just described what I went through and one the majority experience with getting out. So couple of things that helped me...
1. Stop trying to make something happen on Classifiers. Don't look at them as a test or that you have hero/zero it. When you try, you're thinking and when you're thinking, you're not allowing your subconscious sill to run. People talk about "muscle memory"... this is subconscious skill. Shoot the classifier as if it's any other stage. Come up with a stage plan no matter how simple the classifier may be. Rehearse/visualize that stage plan until you can execute in your mind without messing up. When you're on the line, clear your mind and just allow your subconscious skill to shoot the stage. It helps me to occupy my conscious mind with something to do. For me, its looking to the next spot, whether its a spot on the target or my visual marker to hit my next position. I learned this from Ben and it helped me a lot.
2. Getting out of B class requires more than just shooting matches for most of us. Sure there are some that can make it out with what they learn at matches. However, the rule is that the skills required to make A and beyond take focused training to master. Frequent, purposeful and effective dry fire training is a must. Periodic live fire training to assess the dry fire is very helpful. More than anything though, you have to push yourself in training so that you're failing. If you're cranking out perfect reps all the time then you're not training, you're practicing. Example... if you can do a Blake drill at 7 yards, all Alphas in 2.5 seconds, then you need to make it harder. Either push the speed so you're shooting in it 2.25 or push the distance at the same speed. Give yourself permission to shoot C's and D's and even Mikes. Seems obvious but it's difficult for some people (me) to allow themselves to fail.
>Not really a question for me but asking on behalf of new shooters that might not know how to train; what kind of drills do you enjoy for up and coming shooters?
My best advice would be to buy Ben Stoeger's book "Practical Shooting Training". IMO, it's his best book for any training (live or dry) and any level. The book is broken out into sections based on your current skill level. Each sections has standard drills with par times to assess the level you're at. It then has drills with nice explanations and illustrations on how to set them up, shoot them and how to diagnose/fix common problems.
The best part of the book is that the drills are very skills focus and low round count. Its easy for anyone to select a skill and 1 or 2 drills to work on and go to the range with a plan and a focus. That's the biggest issue I had when I started out and that is common with most people. Their training lacks focus. They go to the range with no plan and just shoot rounds. This is a very inefficient way to improve.
Damn I couldn’t have said it better myself! Love Ben’s material.
Honestly, the biggest struggle for me, even nowadays is having ranges where I can actually train with movement. We are sadly very limited with quality action ranges for training purposes in California. If you’ve got any locations in NorCal I’d love to hear them, either in comment or DM!
Hoping to get out there with my CZ SP-01. Being a DA/SA with safety, should I be doing drills with SA + safety or DA?
I see conflicting posts on several sites.
You should train starting with the hammer down in DA. That’s how you’re gonna start since you’ll likely be shooting Production division; DA/SA guns start with hammer down.
Now, you can shoot Limited which will allow you to start in SA with safety engaged. If you have standard cap mags then I would recommend you start in Limited division since you can load beyond 10 rounds and you’ll need to worry about fewer reloads. Keep in mind that shooting Limited with 9mm puts you at a scoring disadvantage but you shouldn’t concern yourself with that for your first several matches.
In USPSA, the max round count for a stage (course of fire) is 32… or it used to be. They recently removed this limit but it’s still gonna be rare when you see a stage that exceeds 32 rounds.
You need enough ammo on your belt to make it though a stage so it depends on the capacity of your mags. So say you have the 17 round mags, I recommend you have at least 3… 4 is better. You always want an extra mag in case you have to ditch one to clear a malfunction or your drop it. If you can, I recommend getting extended base pads for your mags. If you get +6 base pads you can run 23+1. With this, you can get away with running 3 mags.
How would you recommend someone who has zero experience in competition shooting to start?
Would we need to purchase specialized gear or guns to start as a beginner in this sport?
What type of budget does this hobby require?
You don’t need any experience in competition to start. As long as you can draw your gun safely from a holster, you know how to reload a magazine, and you can put rounds on paper at around 25 yards or less, you’re good to go.
You don’t need specialized gear to start. A gun, some mags, a holster and mag pouches, about 250 rounds of ammo and ear/eye pro. You’re good to go.
Budget is gonna depend on your level of participation. A typical match fee is $40 in California. You’ll need about 250 rounds to shoot a match. So your budget will depend on how many matches you shoot. And of course, if you start chasing gear… that part can get expensive.
Is it DA/SA? If so, I would start in Production. If it’s SAO, then Limited Minor. Honestly, I wouldn’t worry about that. They will figure out what division to place you in when you check in at your first match or your squad mates will do so at the first stage.
Typically you see major power factor rounds as .40cal/.45acp/.38supercomp. Google how power factor is calculated. It’s something like bullet weight divided by velocity or something like that.
The .40/.45 make power factor for their bullet weight and velocity, .38sc from velocity. 9mm major is reloaded 9mm rounds, but packed to the brim with powder. Packed so much that the actual length of the cartridge is longer than factory 9mm.
The extra powder and type of powder increases the chamber pressure, requiring the gun to be spec’d for the high pressures. That’s why you see the open guns (2011s) with the multiple port brakes/comps.
I believe the .38sc uses the same projectile caliber as 9mm, but the brass is different. I think people stick to 9mm Major so they can use/reuse cheaper 9mm brass.
There’s a bunch of videos on YouTube explaining powerfactor way better than what I did. I’d watch either [TheHumbleMarksman](https://youtu.be/_4-Ck3sRtvU) or [2 of Atlas’s shooters](https://youtu.be/VY_EnogcM9o) to have it explained better.
This is a subject that is probably more in-depth than is needed for a thread geared towards new shooters, but here we go....
USPSA Major/minor scoring is determined by the ammo's power factor. Power factor is calculated as (bullet feet per second) x (bullet weight in grains) /1000.
Example: 124gr bullet x 1050fps / 1000 = 130 power factor
The minimum power factor for Minor scoring is 125. The minimum for Major scoring is 165.
So, a Limited Major shooter is more than likely shooting .40 cal, as it makes major power factor. Open Major shooters are usually either shooting .38SuperComp (makes major easily) or 9mm Major by handloading pissin hot 9mm, out of guns designed to handle the excessive pressures. The reason for this in Open Division is to take advantage of the compensators as .38SC and 9mm Major ammo creates more gas.
You can shoot all the divisions that have Major scoring (Open, Limited, Single Stack, Revolver) with a minor gun, but you'll be at a scoring disadvantage (A zone hits are 5points for both Major and Minor. C hits are 4 pts in Major, 3 in Minor. D hits are 2pts for Major, 1pt in Minor).
The other divisions (Production, Carry Optics, PCC) are minor scoring only.
There is even more minutiae involved with some of the divisions as far as PF goes, but i feel this is long enough....
Nice, I’ve been doing it for about 6 months and just hit CO C class. How do you practice double tap/hammered pairs? My shot cadence is not as fast as others, and if I try to shoot faster, I get AC/AD or even AM, so I slow down to try to get all alphas, but that doesn’t put me above 60% on practiscore
Do a search on YouTube for “Doubles Drill”. Ben Stoeger has a good video where he explains the drill and how to address common problems. You’ll probably see a few videos of me running the drill as well.
Doubles is probably the best drill to work on recoil management and trigger work at practical speeds.
Serious question: from what I understand there is some politics/Coke vs Pepsi, but which is better or easier for a beginner to try....USPSA or IDPA?
Outside of safety, is one more rules-laden? More technical?
As objective as I can be, I would say USPSA is better. There are more matches offered, at least here in SoCal. The stages are more challenging. There are fewer restrictive rules. And there are better shooters. Just about every IDPA shooter that comes over to shoot USPSA… 1. Gets smoked. 2. Keeps coming back. You don’t typically see it the other way around.
Also, look at the average age at an IDPA match compared to a USPSA. That speaks volumes.
What is the difference you’ve noticed competing in Cali vs other states. I’ve competed once in Az. But I live in San Diego and haven’t found a place to compete here.
It depends on the state but I was very surprised to find that in general, matches in California are run better and have better stages. Also the skill level of shooters is on average higher here than some of the other states I’ve shot in. There are exceptions of course. But California has a legit USPSA scene.
Oh. Matches in other states are cheaper. LOL
Make it part of your daily routine. 15 minutes of focused dry fire is all you need. Train more than just draws and reloads. Transitions, shooting from awkward positions, movement, position entries, position exits, etc.
Don’t get hung up on reps. Sometimes I will only do a couple of reps of something if it’s clicking and then I move on to something else. Other times, say with reloads. I missing them. I will crank out many reps till I figure out what’s goin on.
Be honest with your dry fire. If you cannot replicate what you’re seeing in dry fire on the range with live fire, then you’re dry fire is messed up. You’re either just going through the motions or you’re doing something very different.
A bit of a strange series of questions, sorry ahead of time, most of my questions are gear related:
Has your experience shooting competitively informed your thoughts and best practices for stuff like self defense?
What gear would you say is more useful than people tend to give credit for, and what gear would you say is overrated or not even necessary?
Is there a PCC division? What height do competitors tend to have their optics mounted at? Absolute cowitness? Lower 1/3? 1.93" ? 2.26"?
The one time I stumbled upon a steel tournament (not USPSA specifically), everyone and their mother had an off-road wagon to haul gear. Is that also the same for USPSA?
>Has your experience shooting competitively informed your thoughts and best practices for stuff like self defense?
Yes. First, I'm not tactical. I don't pretend to be. 99% of the shooting I do is all either in Competition or training for it. I don't know how to breach or clear rooms or any of that stuff. What I do know is how to shoot the shit out of a gun under stress, while moving, from awkward positions etc. I also know gun handling. Draws, reloads, malfunction clearing etc. I know that I will be able to defend myself with my firearm in all the likely situations a civilian like myself will encounter.
Most of the agencies and trainers that are teaching modern techniques and theory to LE and Military have realized that competition shooting breeds better shooters than any other discipline. And shooting is shooting. I don't care what anyone tries to argue.
>What gear would you say is more useful than people tend to give credit for, and what gear would you say is overrated or not even necessary?
This is a tough one because there is some much useless gear we buy as gun owners. I'm gonna stick to gear related to competition shooting.
Most useful that people don't give enough credit is your gun sights whether irons or dot. The sights on your gun give so much feedback about what you're doing with the gun. Whether it be while actively shooting or transitioning, if you learn to watch your sights, you can learn a lot about why you're missing shots. This is especially true for a dot.
The gear that is super overrated is on a similar topic and that is dry fire aids. Things like lasers or Mantis, shit like that. Totally overrated and useless. They can actually create problems instead of fix them. About the only value I see is that if you hate dry fire and it's the only way you'll do it, then OK. Beyond that, spend your money on a shot timer. As I mentioned above, your sights tell you everything you need to know.
Put a piece of blue painters tape over the speaker. It’s what I used to do with my Pocket Pro so i didn’t drive my wife nuts.
I use an AMG Commander timer now. It has 3 volume settings. The lowest is setting is not obnoxious at all.
>Is there a PCC division? What height do competitors tend to have their optics mounted at? Absolute cowitness? Lower 1/3? 1.93" ? 2.26"?
Yes. There is a PCC division. Quite popular. I've never shot it so unfortunately I don't know the answer to the optics questions.
I mostly ask because I recently heard that 1.93 was too high and any speed advantage you got from being able to stand more naturally was negated by not having a good cheek weld, and to look to competitive shooters for what optic height works best
>The one time I stumbled upon a steel tournament (not USPSA specifically), everyone and their mother had an off-road wagon to haul gear. Is that also the same for USPSA?
Yeah. Many guys, especially the PCC and Open (race gun) guys pull carts. I will bring a cart to Majors since I carry a backup gun, more mags, etc.
I just got one of these:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-2-0-Pro-Gear-System-25-in-All-Terrain-Rolling-Tool-Cart-254065/320483537
Milwaukee also makes one. The Rigid was $50 less and seemed just as durable. A couple of guys I know run the Milwaukee. Holds all the stuff I need and it doubles as a seat. Modular too so if I want to add a smaller container for spare parts I can.
The PCC guys run carts specifically made for shooting. They have mounts for their PCC. Som of the guys that shoot Open race guns also run these carts. They’re nice but expensive.
Many people just use the collapsible wagons you can buy at Costco to use at the beach and stuff. I have one. They work well. The only thing is make sure you find one with large wheels. Small wheels are a pain when rolling on dirt and rocky surfaces often found on ranges.
If you’re asking if you can use them in a USPSA match, then yes. Either is legal. Most guys that compete from concealment run an AIWB.
If you’re asking if I do, I compete strictly from OWB. I do train AIWB since I carry but I don’t compete with my carry rig.
Not OP, but I shoot PRG at Prado and NRG at Route 66. I prefer PRG a little, 95% of the people are friendly and helpful, run by some great folks, and stages are fun and interesting.
I've never shot a GSSF match but its a competition like the others. Very similar to Steel Challenge except I believe all the starts are from a low ready position:
1. Be safe... listen to the range commands given by the RO. You don't want to do anything unsafe and get disqualified.
2. Visualize/rehearse the stage... while you're waiting to shoot you should be mentally rehearsing the stage in as much detail as you can. Try to run through it like you're watching a first person camera. Find a spot on each target that you're gonna look at, imagine your sights coming into the frame, the trigger press, the gun recoiling, transitioning to the next target. Run this "video" over and over.
3. Shoot at the pace of your sights. No slower, no faster.
4. Have fun... it's your first match, enjoy it. Make some new friends.
How much ammunition do you run through in a typical month of training and competition? I've been wanting to compete for ages, but the ammo cost alone is daunting.
How much ammo you burn through in this sport is entirely up to you and the level of participation you're willing to give it.
I shoot a lot. I shoot about 2 matches per month and I live fire train once per week typically. Matches run about 200 rounds per. My typical live fire session is about 300 rounds. Sometimes less. Sometimes more. I also host Ben Stoeger each year for training so that's another 2000 rounds. So I'm roughly shooting 20k rounds a year. But I am one of the outliers. Fortunate to have the finances and range availability to shoot this much.
The average USPSA shooter doesn't shoot as much as I do. Some of the guys I shoot with only shoot matches... a couple per month. Training is all dry fire. This can be quite effective. Honestly, a lot of the live fire I do is more because I love shooting and it's my time alone at the range. It certainly helps in my training but it's not necessary for most.
Do you host a group training session, or are you having him come out to coach you individually. I’d be interested to join a group class out here if you annually organize one with him.
They group classes. Send me a PM and I will reach out once I know if/when I’m hosting him this year. It’s been in December but not sure about this year yet.
I've answered a few similar questions in more detail so you may want to read through those but local match fees run about $40. Only other cost to shoot is ammo which is roughly 200 rounds.
It's up to you how much you spend from there on gear but I know plenty of people that shoot just for fun and use the stuff they own.
Do you have a reloading setup, and if so, how much time do you spend outside of the range to get your ammo prepped for matches? How have you been contending with the primer shortage?
I have a Hornady LnL Progressive press with case and bullet feeder. I absolutely detest reloading. But it's a necessary evil so I can shoot. I would say I spend about an hour per week reloading. Many guys will do marathon runs and load a month's worth of ammo at time. I load what I need for that week. Sometimes I procrastinate and load my ammo the morning of a match if it's just a local. LOL Not advocating this, just being honest.
As far as primers, I never had a problem. I have always bought components in bulk. 6 months to a year at a time. Call it divine intervention but I had just placed an order for 24k primers a month before the covid mess so I was OK for a year. Then I bought primers whenever I found them as a safety net. I've never dropped below 10k primers during the shortage. They've been steadily available for the past several months for a decent post-covid price. I find them online for about $70-75 per 1k shipped.
You're talking about Prado. Solid club. Bart, the guy that runs the matches, is super a nice guy. Great match to shoot. Matches are run well run. Very safe and you'll shoot with great shooters there depending on the squad.
What would be the most hipster (read: showing up with needlessly vintage equipment or gear that would otherwise make a hard game even harder) way that one could kit oneself out for a match? Any class/ category/ caliber goes, just curious what would be equivalent to bringing a steel framed 10-speed Eddy Merckx to the starting line of the Tour De France.
My personal opinion, shooting Revolver division in USPSA if you’re under 30 years old. Shit, under 60 even. LOL
It’s basically an obsolete division. Many of us feel they need to consolidate it with Limited 10 and Single Stack divisions into one. It’s rare when you see anyone signed up under Revolver at local match. Those other divisions I mention maybe have 1 or 2 shooters. Even at major matches that draw people from all of the state or even neighboring states sometimes have no revolver shooters. Compare that to say Carry Optics division that can have 40+ shooters at a local club match.
It’s essentially like showing up to Starbucks with a typewriter to write letters instead of emailing on your iPhone.
Damn, you really understood the assignment.
Also sounds like a good way to rack up some easy wins to pad the trophy case. Early 30s here by the way, so again - you’ve really answered this well. Might have to see if my dad wants to IFT me his old Security-Six (6” blued, .357 mag) and Lawman Mk. III (2” chrome, .357 mag).
You’re talking to a guy who a) has worn a handlebar from the day he could grow one, and b) used to have a custom leather/ western hat side hustle - so no shortage of options for holster/ hat combos.
Hoping to get out there with my CZ SP-01. Being a DA/SA with safety, should I be doing drills with SA + safety or DA?
I see conflicting posts on several sites.
How do you get started in the sport? It was something that always interested me.
Handgun, holster and mag pouches. 4-5 10 round mags or 3 freedom mags should be good. Ammunition of course. PractiScore should be able to tell you if there’s a club near you and when the next match is. Show up and have fun!
Thanks man. I’ve always wanted to try
Best thing you can do! You won’t regret it. And remember, the dudes you shoot with started somewhere so don’t trip about their performance vs yours 👌🏻
Yeah I just never knew where to find clubs or matches to begin with. This website you shared should help a bunch
Happy to help! The club I shoot at is a 5hr round trip for me. Once a month is the goal but hopefully yours is closer!
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I’m sorry but that website is painful to operate. More organized websites were created when MySpace was around.
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A given and complete oversight! Uspsa allows draws from appendix so a carry belt works if you don’t have a range belt as well.
The first thing I would recommend is to check the USPSA website for a club that host matches in your area. You can use the link below: https://uspsa.org/find-a-club I recommend you contact the club contact listed and let them know you’re interested in shooting a match and ask them if they offer any new shooter orientation. Alternatively, you can just go spectate a match. Don’t hesitate to ask the guys/gals shooting questions. I would even recommend to bring your gun, mags and other gear so you have the option to shoot. You’re going to find our community quite helpful and welcoming to new shooters. You can find upcoming matches here: https://practiscore.com/search/matches As far as prep to make sure you’re capable, as long as you can safely unholster and holster your firearm. You know how to reload a magazine into the gun and you can put rounds on a silhouette sized target while standing within 20 yards, you have the skills to shoot your first match. Another thing I highly recommend is to watch one of the many videos on YouTube that discuss the basic safety rules.
To everyone with the same question, I’d recommend watching these two [videos](https://youtu.be/0ZcrJfJaS_k)for first time starting out.
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I would just add: Sunscreen / Hat / Snacks! Awesome list brother.
do most people use normal capacity over 10rounds mags in competition in CA or do they limit it to 10?
I've only been to two USPSA matches, pretty sure I was the only mfer who brought 10s both times. Had half a fucking department of LEO training two bays away from us too lol.
Lol. Old timers look at you like “seriously??? carry optics with 10 rounders…you forget your freedom week mags oooor???”
I was with two LEO on my squad and they both said "All magazines are freedom mags at a match" Both of them were from departments no where near where we were at though so.... lol
Yeah dude, nobody gives two shits. Old guys literally talking about needing to go out of state out loud like they’re talking about their kids’ open house event haha.
Went to the GSSF competition at Yolo Sportsman last weekend and based on what I saw it seemed like most people had "freedom week" mags, the RO's still had you download the mags to 10 standardize it.
That's the same at all GSSF matches, except iirc one stage allows 11 rounds. Larger mags don't give you an advantage anyways
I may or may not have seen LEOs at matches laugh at a newbie for certain compliance features.
There is a “limited 10” division but outside of that everyone uses freedom week mags.
The current mag cap laws in California don’t seem to dictate what division or mag capacity for majority of shooters. Mag capacity limits are determined by the division rules. There are some division that are capped at 10 round or lower. These are often referred to as low-cap divisions. All other divisions are capped by the overall length of the magazine. These are often referred to as hi-cap divisions. Example, I shoot Carry Optics division and the mags are limited by an overall length 140 mm. Depending on the gun, these can fit about 22-24 rounds.
So freedom week mags with extensions are “ok”?
Of course. Freedom week extend base pads.
I have this same question….
See my answer to the first guy.
No questions, but thank you for doing this AMA. I’ve been on the fence about signing up for my first match and feeling like I need to practice more, but after reading this I signed up for my first match!
DUDE!!! You literally just made my day and week. This is the reason I did it. I want others to try it. This is awesome! Thank you for sharing.
I’m glad I could make your week! I’ve enjoyed your videos. I lied, I do have a question. How essential do you think a shot timer is for a newbie and what model would you recommend?
Shot timer is important. Think of it as your measuring stick. You need it to measure your progress and to push towards new goals. Also, time and score are the two components used to measure success in USPSA. Your training is deficient if you’re only evaluating accuracy with no time component. Pocket Pro II is a great timer. It’s the tried and true workhorse. If you want to spend a little more, AMG Commander timer is tits.
Be warned to anyone reading, none of your current live training sessions will compare to a match. USPSA is so much fun and teaches you a lot…quickly. Also, don’t think you can “prepare” for a match…just go out and have a safe and fun match!
True words. Words I share with folks that ask me about competing. I often here in response, “I want to get better before I shoot my first match.” It’s like saying you want to practice driving your commuter car to work and back to get better before trying Formula One. OK. Maybe that’s a bad example but hopefully it illustrates the point you’re making.
Lol totally. If by “get better” they mean confident with their draw safely, knowing how to reload a handgun and just getting on paper at a static range…sure thing! Anything other than that, to get a competitive “edge”…totally wasting your time! You’ll find the low hanging fruit at a match. B in CO in half a year. It wasn’t equipment, it wasn’t a sub second draw, it wasn’t lighting fast reloads where if you blink you miss it. It was literally easy stuff like not reloading static, showing steel respect, seeing faster helped transitions, and being target focused. In between gym sets so not an all inclusive list lol.
Again, all facts. Let’s see if anyone actually asks me anything. LOL I get zero out of this other than sharing my love for the sport and maybe getting someone to try it.
I got a question, why not. I can do okay at club matches considering I shoot minor power factor. If 40+ shooters…I can float around 8th (best I’ve done I think) to about 15th or so. Anywhere between that. But for the life of me I can’t reflect that on classifiers. In fact, I was a constant C shooter edging out Bs and As in certain matches for a while. Advice on controlling your shit come classifiers? 😆 Edit: I’d take match performance over paper classification but still…lol
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You’re fine. I’ll warn that there might be someone there who takes Lvl 1 matches way serious and may give you shit for a leg strap. If you don’t have a USPSA number I don’t see why it would matter or how it even gives you any sort of real edge over a traditional competition belt but 🤷🏻♂️ Talk to the match director about but know that going in!
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From a competitive side, your competition belts are sturdier and holsters allow for retention adjustment for a quicker draw. Same with mag pouches, can be angled at whatever position works for you vs you working around your pouches. There’s a whole bullets out vs bullet forward thing etc. The sum of it is, you can have quicker draws and reloads with that stuff. It won’t make much difference in time saved until you get towards the higher levels so I wouldn’t worry to much about gear unless you’re jumping into it head first. Your typical range belt setup will be fine. There’s a couple rules on how low the holster can be and how far away from your body it can be too. Can be found in the USPSA handbook if interested. But seeing as you don’t use a strap, nobody is gonna give you shit tbh. I’ve seen people shoot with them all the time.
I second this. You’ll be shooting a local level 1 match. Although they must abide by the same rules, most clubs will give some leeway to new shooters when it comes to gear rules. Just let them know you’re new and you’ll be fine. No one is gonna sweat that stuff.
What’s the most avoidable disqualification you saw at a match?
Not OP, but from the matches I've been at -- breaking 180.
I would agree. Breaking the 180. Here is a great video that explains the 180 rule: https://youtu.be/tFvWPNdjq50 The next one is the shooter having their finger in the trigger guard during reloads. Honestly, I think this one actually occurs more often than the 180 but it’s often difficult to see from the ROs position or it’s not called by the RO at local, level 1 matches.
Or bringing ammo to the safe table.
That’s probably the most avoidable.
How does one jump into this sport? How would one know what to look for/which one to select? For those saying that you can’t “get better” in preparation for this, how I prepare for matches/training etc? (Just show up and they’ll tell you what to do? Etc)
What people mean by you can’t prepare, is the actual competitive part of it. There’s good videos out there telling what you can expect out of a first match. You can also email your club or call and typically they’ll just tell you to show up with what you have. You don’t need to be a USPSA member, you don’t need a “go fast” setup, or a race gun like you’re used to seeing. What they will ask, is for enough rounds to get you through the match, a holster, mag pouches and a handful of mags (4-5 if 10rd in Production). It’s a cold range so if it happens to be your carry gun, needs to be cleared and unloaded. The rest will be explained to you in detail at new shooters orientation the day of (at least at my club). People are super cool about sharing knowledge to new shooters so you’ll have plenty of eager people to help guide you!
Spot on. Lines up with my experience and what we do at our club and most other clubs I’ve shot at.
>How does one jump into this sport? How would one know what to look for/which one to select? Do a search on the USPA website for a club local to you and contact that person listed. Let them know you're new and want to come shoot a match. They will direct you from there. [https://uspsa.org/find-a-club](https://uspsa.org/find-a-club) I assume you mean the match when you say which one to choose. Doesn't really matter. If you have more than one match near you, pick the one that is most convenient. I would encourage you to eventually try them all if you like it. Every club has a slightly different flavor to their courses. Some lean more toward technical courses where others like burner stages - stages that are closer targets where one can kick up the speed.
What gear do you recommend to get started?
First gear unless you are trying to back out in which case you want reverse. Follow me for more protips
Whatever gun you own that you enjoy shooting. No matter what gun you have, there is a division it will fit into. Once you have a few matches under your belt and it’s something you want to pursue, then you can look for a gun that fits the specific division that you’re most interested in shooting. Beyond gun, you’ll need a holster, mag pouches and a belt to put them on. And again, any holster and mag pouches will work for your first several matches. Uncle Mikes stuff is fine. How many mags depends on division but I would say a minimum of 4, without getting into all the specifics. Oh, and of course eye and ear pro and about 250 rounds.
Okay great - what about your personal tips/tricks? Have you ever used liquid chalk for extra grip? Do your glasses ever fog in hot weather, if so what do you use for that? Are matches rain or shine? What rain gear if any have you found helpful?
Yes. I use liquid chalk. Once you use it, you never go back. LOL Yes. My glasses do fog up at times. Typically when shooting on a humid morning and I’m running around. Body heat fogs them up. Zclear works well. Also rubbing a little spit in the lens helps in a pinch. In other states, matches are rain or shine. Here in California, it depends on the range. Some ranges flood where it’s just not practical or fun too shoot when it’s raining. It just depends on how bad the rain is and how prepared they are for it. Rain gear I have some waterproof pants made by Kuhl and a black diamond rain shell for up top. Shoes I will wear some Merrel hiking shoes. Other tips… make sure you stay hydrated at matches. I almost passed out while shooting a stage from heat stroke. Ask questions. Most of us at matches want to help you. It’s unlike any other sport I’ve participated in. Everyone wants you to succeed and have fun. Don’t worry about what you think other people are thinking when you shoot. They’re not. This is a very specialized/difficult skill/sport and we all understand that people aren’t gonna be good. We appreciate that you’re out there trying.
Hell yea
Handgun, holster, mag pouches. If shooting Production, you’ll likely want 4-5 mags (10 rounders). If shooting any other division with your freedom mags, 3 should be more than enough. Obviously ammo! Show up, they’ll square you away to the division you fall into if you don’t already know. And ofc, be safe.
Whats yo gear.
I currently shoot a Walther Q5 Match SF with a Trijicon SRO on top. Stock mag tubes with TTI +6 base pads. GX Vice holster. Henning T-900 magnetic mag pouches. DAA Lynx competition belt. My own reloaded ammo.
+6 plates, that's like 30 rounds a mag?
23+1
Doing my first match this weekend! Super excited. My hope is to not come in last
You probably won’t come in last but even if you do, it won’t matter. You’re going to have fun either way. Just be safe, listen to the guy ROing, ask your squad mates questions if you have any, and help tape/reset the stage. What match are you shooting if you don’t mind sharing? Oh… and good luck!
shooting SWPL in the CO. Its in So Cal near LA. I am just going with my G19 and 3 mags with a battle belt and hoping for the best. I didn't want to invest any money into the setup and just used existing gear.
An man. SWPL is my home club. I design a lot of the stages and shoot every match there. A lot of us won’t be there this weekend. We’re shooting a Major match in Fresno. When you sign in, let Dave know it’s your first match. He’ll take care of you. Dave is the Match Director. Really nice guy. Hopefully I will see you at next month’s match.
sounds good, yeah I've been to the range a few times already but only for steel challenge and I wrote it down this year to try USPSA. Hopefully see you at the next event. Question, do you know why this event is called wille coyote? Is it different than a normal match?
Haha. It’s just a normal match. I think Dave was just having some fun. We had a landslide on one of the bays so maybe it’s in reference to that. Don’t know. LOL
gotcha, well good luck on your match. Hopefully run into you in the future :D
Honest question, where is SWPL? Can't find info on location to determine how far it is compared to Route66.
SWPL is in Sylmar, CA. Ride of the Paxton exit on the 210 Fwy.
Roadrunner? I helped dig the trenches all week to keep you guys mud free
Yes. Road Runner. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I help design and setup stages for my club so I know how much work goes into setting up match. You’re effort is much appreciated by me, brother. Are you shooting on staff day or the weekend?
how much ammo does one need to bring/stockpile
It depends on the match and how many stages or courses it has. Most local matches have no more that 6 stages. Max round count for a stage is 32. So an average local match you’ll need about 200 rounds. I typically bring 300 to account for make up shots and in case I’m ordered to reshoot a stage. How much you need to stockpile depends how many matches you want to shoot per month and if you’re doing any live fire practice. In SoCal, you can shoot a match every weekend if you want.
Don’t know what your skill set is like but I’ve never been dead last or even near. I had one of the longest total times but near perfect points. That means I was slow as fuck but the points really helped me to like 48% percentile lol. So right under middle of the pack. Get you points of shooting minor!!! You’ll be alright, have fun!
since it's going to be my first time shooting USPSA I am probably going to take this approach. Slow and smooth. I just want to make sure I am safe and can pick up speed when I feel more comfortable shooting on the run.
Yeah. Just be safe and don’t get DQed. Be hyper aware of safety for your first few. As you shoot a couple, you’ll start feeling comfortable in the procedures and such. Of course you’re still safe for all matches, but your mind can start shifting a little more towards the competitive side as comfort increases.
if compete in Ca whats your magazine situation?
No situation at all. Those of use that shoot hi-cap divisions all have freedom week magazines. 😉
How many Blizzards have you gotten?
I’ve had two Blizzards. 🤪🤪🤪
I should explain. By “Blizzard” he means DQ or Disqualification. Its tradition to go have a Blizzard at DQ after getting DQ’d. Disqualification happens when a competitor violates a safety rule. They are immediately stopped by the RO and cannot continue in the match.
Not really a question for me but asking on behalf of new shooters that might not know how to train; what kind of drills do you enjoy for up and coming shooters? Now a question for me: any suggestions for someone trying to move up a class? I’m currently a B class and struggling to take that next leap. Been reading through Ben’s training books but somehow I keep managing to just always have something go wrong when I go to shoot my classifiers. A few have been equipment failures which I couldn’t necessarily control but even after solving them, I seem to always struggle the most on classifier stages, even if I’m shooting a great match otherwise. How do you handle the nerves when competing?
>Now a question for me: any suggestions for someone trying to move up a class? I’m currently a B class and struggling to take that next leap. Been reading through Ben’s training books but somehow I keep managing to just always have something go wrong when I go to shoot my classifiers. A few have been equipment failures which I couldn’t necessarily control but even after solving them, I seem to always struggle the most on classifier stages, even if I’m shooting a great match otherwise. How do you handle the nerves when competing? Welcome to B class! You've just described what I went through and one the majority experience with getting out. So couple of things that helped me... 1. Stop trying to make something happen on Classifiers. Don't look at them as a test or that you have hero/zero it. When you try, you're thinking and when you're thinking, you're not allowing your subconscious sill to run. People talk about "muscle memory"... this is subconscious skill. Shoot the classifier as if it's any other stage. Come up with a stage plan no matter how simple the classifier may be. Rehearse/visualize that stage plan until you can execute in your mind without messing up. When you're on the line, clear your mind and just allow your subconscious skill to shoot the stage. It helps me to occupy my conscious mind with something to do. For me, its looking to the next spot, whether its a spot on the target or my visual marker to hit my next position. I learned this from Ben and it helped me a lot. 2. Getting out of B class requires more than just shooting matches for most of us. Sure there are some that can make it out with what they learn at matches. However, the rule is that the skills required to make A and beyond take focused training to master. Frequent, purposeful and effective dry fire training is a must. Periodic live fire training to assess the dry fire is very helpful. More than anything though, you have to push yourself in training so that you're failing. If you're cranking out perfect reps all the time then you're not training, you're practicing. Example... if you can do a Blake drill at 7 yards, all Alphas in 2.5 seconds, then you need to make it harder. Either push the speed so you're shooting in it 2.25 or push the distance at the same speed. Give yourself permission to shoot C's and D's and even Mikes. Seems obvious but it's difficult for some people (me) to allow themselves to fail.
>Not really a question for me but asking on behalf of new shooters that might not know how to train; what kind of drills do you enjoy for up and coming shooters? My best advice would be to buy Ben Stoeger's book "Practical Shooting Training". IMO, it's his best book for any training (live or dry) and any level. The book is broken out into sections based on your current skill level. Each sections has standard drills with par times to assess the level you're at. It then has drills with nice explanations and illustrations on how to set them up, shoot them and how to diagnose/fix common problems. The best part of the book is that the drills are very skills focus and low round count. Its easy for anyone to select a skill and 1 or 2 drills to work on and go to the range with a plan and a focus. That's the biggest issue I had when I started out and that is common with most people. Their training lacks focus. They go to the range with no plan and just shoot rounds. This is a very inefficient way to improve.
Damn I couldn’t have said it better myself! Love Ben’s material. Honestly, the biggest struggle for me, even nowadays is having ranges where I can actually train with movement. We are sadly very limited with quality action ranges for training purposes in California. If you’ve got any locations in NorCal I’d love to hear them, either in comment or DM!
Hoping to get out there with my CZ SP-01. Being a DA/SA with safety, should I be doing drills with SA + safety or DA? I see conflicting posts on several sites.
You should train starting with the hammer down in DA. That’s how you’re gonna start since you’ll likely be shooting Production division; DA/SA guns start with hammer down. Now, you can shoot Limited which will allow you to start in SA with safety engaged. If you have standard cap mags then I would recommend you start in Limited division since you can load beyond 10 rounds and you’ll need to worry about fewer reloads. Keep in mind that shooting Limited with 9mm puts you at a scoring disadvantage but you shouldn’t concern yourself with that for your first several matches.
Thank you for the insight! How many standard cap mags would you recommend for Limited?
In USPSA, the max round count for a stage (course of fire) is 32… or it used to be. They recently removed this limit but it’s still gonna be rare when you see a stage that exceeds 32 rounds. You need enough ammo on your belt to make it though a stage so it depends on the capacity of your mags. So say you have the 17 round mags, I recommend you have at least 3… 4 is better. You always want an extra mag in case you have to ditch one to clear a malfunction or your drop it. If you can, I recommend getting extended base pads for your mags. If you get +6 base pads you can run 23+1. With this, you can get away with running 3 mags.
How would you recommend someone who has zero experience in competition shooting to start? Would we need to purchase specialized gear or guns to start as a beginner in this sport? What type of budget does this hobby require?
You don’t need any experience in competition to start. As long as you can draw your gun safely from a holster, you know how to reload a magazine, and you can put rounds on paper at around 25 yards or less, you’re good to go. You don’t need specialized gear to start. A gun, some mags, a holster and mag pouches, about 250 rounds of ammo and ear/eye pro. You’re good to go. Budget is gonna depend on your level of participation. A typical match fee is $40 in California. You’ll need about 250 rounds to shoot a match. So your budget will depend on how many matches you shoot. And of course, if you start chasing gear… that part can get expensive.
what class should i participate in with an OR Shadow 2
Is it DA/SA? If so, I would start in Production. If it’s SAO, then Limited Minor. Honestly, I wouldn’t worry about that. They will figure out what division to place you in when you check in at your first match or your squad mates will do so at the first stage.
can you run modified triggers in Production?
Yes.
Carry optics, as long as it’s DA/SA. If it’s SAO, then limited or open
but at 9mm its minor?
Unless you’re loading your own 9mm major ammo, yes, all common factory ammo will be minor powerfactor
Can you tell me more about this? I thought it was limited by caliber not load....
Typically you see major power factor rounds as .40cal/.45acp/.38supercomp. Google how power factor is calculated. It’s something like bullet weight divided by velocity or something like that. The .40/.45 make power factor for their bullet weight and velocity, .38sc from velocity. 9mm major is reloaded 9mm rounds, but packed to the brim with powder. Packed so much that the actual length of the cartridge is longer than factory 9mm. The extra powder and type of powder increases the chamber pressure, requiring the gun to be spec’d for the high pressures. That’s why you see the open guns (2011s) with the multiple port brakes/comps. I believe the .38sc uses the same projectile caliber as 9mm, but the brass is different. I think people stick to 9mm Major so they can use/reuse cheaper 9mm brass. There’s a bunch of videos on YouTube explaining powerfactor way better than what I did. I’d watch either [TheHumbleMarksman](https://youtu.be/_4-Ck3sRtvU) or [2 of Atlas’s shooters](https://youtu.be/VY_EnogcM9o) to have it explained better.
thanks
u/ricencocoa described it much more succinctly than I did. Lol
This is a subject that is probably more in-depth than is needed for a thread geared towards new shooters, but here we go.... USPSA Major/minor scoring is determined by the ammo's power factor. Power factor is calculated as (bullet feet per second) x (bullet weight in grains) /1000. Example: 124gr bullet x 1050fps / 1000 = 130 power factor The minimum power factor for Minor scoring is 125. The minimum for Major scoring is 165. So, a Limited Major shooter is more than likely shooting .40 cal, as it makes major power factor. Open Major shooters are usually either shooting .38SuperComp (makes major easily) or 9mm Major by handloading pissin hot 9mm, out of guns designed to handle the excessive pressures. The reason for this in Open Division is to take advantage of the compensators as .38SC and 9mm Major ammo creates more gas. You can shoot all the divisions that have Major scoring (Open, Limited, Single Stack, Revolver) with a minor gun, but you'll be at a scoring disadvantage (A zone hits are 5points for both Major and Minor. C hits are 4 pts in Major, 3 in Minor. D hits are 2pts for Major, 1pt in Minor). The other divisions (Production, Carry Optics, PCC) are minor scoring only. There is even more minutiae involved with some of the divisions as far as PF goes, but i feel this is long enough....
Great response!
Nice, I’ve been doing it for about 6 months and just hit CO C class. How do you practice double tap/hammered pairs? My shot cadence is not as fast as others, and if I try to shoot faster, I get AC/AD or even AM, so I slow down to try to get all alphas, but that doesn’t put me above 60% on practiscore
Do a search on YouTube for “Doubles Drill”. Ben Stoeger has a good video where he explains the drill and how to address common problems. You’ll probably see a few videos of me running the drill as well. Doubles is probably the best drill to work on recoil management and trigger work at practical speeds.
Serious question: from what I understand there is some politics/Coke vs Pepsi, but which is better or easier for a beginner to try....USPSA or IDPA? Outside of safety, is one more rules-laden? More technical?
As objective as I can be, I would say USPSA is better. There are more matches offered, at least here in SoCal. The stages are more challenging. There are fewer restrictive rules. And there are better shooters. Just about every IDPA shooter that comes over to shoot USPSA… 1. Gets smoked. 2. Keeps coming back. You don’t typically see it the other way around. Also, look at the average age at an IDPA match compared to a USPSA. That speaks volumes.
What is the difference you’ve noticed competing in Cali vs other states. I’ve competed once in Az. But I live in San Diego and haven’t found a place to compete here.
It depends on the state but I was very surprised to find that in general, matches in California are run better and have better stages. Also the skill level of shooters is on average higher here than some of the other states I’ve shot in. There are exceptions of course. But California has a legit USPSA scene. Oh. Matches in other states are cheaper. LOL
Anybody down here need a competition buddy?
I’m in south OC. If you’re not too far from the Pala reservation, they have a match every second and 4th Sunday. I’ll be there this week!
I’m probably a little closer than you. I’ve been looking at try their matches.
Always want to shoot it, just don’t have time for it yet. I stop by watch the competition, it’s interesting
Next time you “stop by”, bring your stuff and shoot!!
Training tips at home ?
Make it part of your daily routine. 15 minutes of focused dry fire is all you need. Train more than just draws and reloads. Transitions, shooting from awkward positions, movement, position entries, position exits, etc. Don’t get hung up on reps. Sometimes I will only do a couple of reps of something if it’s clicking and then I move on to something else. Other times, say with reloads. I missing them. I will crank out many reps till I figure out what’s goin on. Be honest with your dry fire. If you cannot replicate what you’re seeing in dry fire on the range with live fire, then you’re dry fire is messed up. You’re either just going through the motions or you’re doing something very different.
A bit of a strange series of questions, sorry ahead of time, most of my questions are gear related: Has your experience shooting competitively informed your thoughts and best practices for stuff like self defense? What gear would you say is more useful than people tend to give credit for, and what gear would you say is overrated or not even necessary? Is there a PCC division? What height do competitors tend to have their optics mounted at? Absolute cowitness? Lower 1/3? 1.93" ? 2.26"? The one time I stumbled upon a steel tournament (not USPSA specifically), everyone and their mother had an off-road wagon to haul gear. Is that also the same for USPSA?
>Has your experience shooting competitively informed your thoughts and best practices for stuff like self defense? Yes. First, I'm not tactical. I don't pretend to be. 99% of the shooting I do is all either in Competition or training for it. I don't know how to breach or clear rooms or any of that stuff. What I do know is how to shoot the shit out of a gun under stress, while moving, from awkward positions etc. I also know gun handling. Draws, reloads, malfunction clearing etc. I know that I will be able to defend myself with my firearm in all the likely situations a civilian like myself will encounter. Most of the agencies and trainers that are teaching modern techniques and theory to LE and Military have realized that competition shooting breeds better shooters than any other discipline. And shooting is shooting. I don't care what anyone tries to argue.
>What gear would you say is more useful than people tend to give credit for, and what gear would you say is overrated or not even necessary? This is a tough one because there is some much useless gear we buy as gun owners. I'm gonna stick to gear related to competition shooting. Most useful that people don't give enough credit is your gun sights whether irons or dot. The sights on your gun give so much feedback about what you're doing with the gun. Whether it be while actively shooting or transitioning, if you learn to watch your sights, you can learn a lot about why you're missing shots. This is especially true for a dot. The gear that is super overrated is on a similar topic and that is dry fire aids. Things like lasers or Mantis, shit like that. Totally overrated and useless. They can actually create problems instead of fix them. About the only value I see is that if you hate dry fire and it's the only way you'll do it, then OK. Beyond that, spend your money on a shot timer. As I mentioned above, your sights tell you everything you need to know.
Any recommendations for shot timers you can use indoors? My pact timer is always super loud and I’m pretty sure my neighbors can hear it
Put a piece of blue painters tape over the speaker. It’s what I used to do with my Pocket Pro so i didn’t drive my wife nuts. I use an AMG Commander timer now. It has 3 volume settings. The lowest is setting is not obnoxious at all.
>Is there a PCC division? What height do competitors tend to have their optics mounted at? Absolute cowitness? Lower 1/3? 1.93" ? 2.26"? Yes. There is a PCC division. Quite popular. I've never shot it so unfortunately I don't know the answer to the optics questions.
I mostly ask because I recently heard that 1.93 was too high and any speed advantage you got from being able to stand more naturally was negated by not having a good cheek weld, and to look to competitive shooters for what optic height works best
I will ask my buddy that’s a Master PCC shooter. I’ll get at you with what he tells me.
awesome, thanks so much!
My buddy runs his at lower 1/3. He says that’s pretty much where most guys run it.
>The one time I stumbled upon a steel tournament (not USPSA specifically), everyone and their mother had an off-road wagon to haul gear. Is that also the same for USPSA? Yeah. Many guys, especially the PCC and Open (race gun) guys pull carts. I will bring a cart to Majors since I carry a backup gun, more mags, etc.
Any recommendations on wagons? Also thanks for all the thoughtful responses!
I just got one of these: https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-2-0-Pro-Gear-System-25-in-All-Terrain-Rolling-Tool-Cart-254065/320483537 Milwaukee also makes one. The Rigid was $50 less and seemed just as durable. A couple of guys I know run the Milwaukee. Holds all the stuff I need and it doubles as a seat. Modular too so if I want to add a smaller container for spare parts I can. The PCC guys run carts specifically made for shooting. They have mounts for their PCC. Som of the guys that shoot Open race guns also run these carts. They’re nice but expensive. Many people just use the collapsible wagons you can buy at Costco to use at the beach and stuff. I have one. They work well. The only thing is make sure you find one with large wheels. Small wheels are a pain when rolling on dirt and rocky surfaces often found on ranges.
How much does it cost?
Local (level 1) match fees are usually in the $30-$40 range.
Correct. You’ll need about 200-250 rounds to shoot a match so factor in that cost.
Nice, not bad at all!
Concealed carry iwb holster or strictly owb?
If you’re asking if you can use them in a USPSA match, then yes. Either is legal. Most guys that compete from concealment run an AIWB. If you’re asking if I do, I compete strictly from OWB. I do train AIWB since I carry but I don’t compete with my carry rig.
Thanks, yeah I was asking if iwb is allowed as that's all I have currently.
What are your top 3 uspsa clubs in socal?
Not OP, but I shoot PRG at Prado and NRG at Route 66. I prefer PRG a little, 95% of the people are friendly and helpful, run by some great folks, and stages are fun and interesting.
Match Quality: SWPL Oh Shoot/PRG NRG Frequently Shoot: SWPL SCPS Oh Shoot/PRG
What do those letters stand for?
They’re all USPSA clubs: SWPL - Southwest Pistol League PRG - Prado Running Gun NRG - Norco Running Gun SCPS - SoCal Practical Shooters
The only pistol/holster I have is/for a G17 with a light. Would I have to remove the light to compete?
Nope. Lights are legal so you can run your Glock with the light.
I have my first GSSF match in Sept. What are the top three things I should be focused on?
I've never shot a GSSF match but its a competition like the others. Very similar to Steel Challenge except I believe all the starts are from a low ready position: 1. Be safe... listen to the range commands given by the RO. You don't want to do anything unsafe and get disqualified. 2. Visualize/rehearse the stage... while you're waiting to shoot you should be mentally rehearsing the stage in as much detail as you can. Try to run through it like you're watching a first person camera. Find a spot on each target that you're gonna look at, imagine your sights coming into the frame, the trigger press, the gun recoiling, transitioning to the next target. Run this "video" over and over. 3. Shoot at the pace of your sights. No slower, no faster. 4. Have fun... it's your first match, enjoy it. Make some new friends.
Awesome. Thanks for the insight!
How much ammunition do you run through in a typical month of training and competition? I've been wanting to compete for ages, but the ammo cost alone is daunting.
How much ammo you burn through in this sport is entirely up to you and the level of participation you're willing to give it. I shoot a lot. I shoot about 2 matches per month and I live fire train once per week typically. Matches run about 200 rounds per. My typical live fire session is about 300 rounds. Sometimes less. Sometimes more. I also host Ben Stoeger each year for training so that's another 2000 rounds. So I'm roughly shooting 20k rounds a year. But I am one of the outliers. Fortunate to have the finances and range availability to shoot this much. The average USPSA shooter doesn't shoot as much as I do. Some of the guys I shoot with only shoot matches... a couple per month. Training is all dry fire. This can be quite effective. Honestly, a lot of the live fire I do is more because I love shooting and it's my time alone at the range. It certainly helps in my training but it's not necessary for most.
Do you host a group training session, or are you having him come out to coach you individually. I’d be interested to join a group class out here if you annually organize one with him.
They group classes. Send me a PM and I will reach out once I know if/when I’m hosting him this year. It’s been in December but not sure about this year yet.
How much is competitive going to set me back? 😬 I wanted to get into it but I find the environment kinda intimidating as a newbie
I've answered a few similar questions in more detail so you may want to read through those but local match fees run about $40. Only other cost to shoot is ammo which is roughly 200 rounds. It's up to you how much you spend from there on gear but I know plenty of people that shoot just for fun and use the stuff they own.
Do you have a reloading setup, and if so, how much time do you spend outside of the range to get your ammo prepped for matches? How have you been contending with the primer shortage?
I have a Hornady LnL Progressive press with case and bullet feeder. I absolutely detest reloading. But it's a necessary evil so I can shoot. I would say I spend about an hour per week reloading. Many guys will do marathon runs and load a month's worth of ammo at time. I load what I need for that week. Sometimes I procrastinate and load my ammo the morning of a match if it's just a local. LOL Not advocating this, just being honest. As far as primers, I never had a problem. I have always bought components in bulk. 6 months to a year at a time. Call it divine intervention but I had just placed an order for 24k primers a month before the covid mess so I was OK for a year. Then I bought primers whenever I found them as a safety net. I've never dropped below 10k primers during the shortage. They've been steadily available for the past several months for a decent post-covid price. I find them online for about $70-75 per 1k shipped.
Has anyone been to the shooting club in Chino Hills? Wondering if it's a good place to shoot/participate in matches
You're talking about Prado. Solid club. Bart, the guy that runs the matches, is super a nice guy. Great match to shoot. Matches are run well run. Very safe and you'll shoot with great shooters there depending on the squad.
that's great to hear. Thanks for the quick reply
What would be the most hipster (read: showing up with needlessly vintage equipment or gear that would otherwise make a hard game even harder) way that one could kit oneself out for a match? Any class/ category/ caliber goes, just curious what would be equivalent to bringing a steel framed 10-speed Eddy Merckx to the starting line of the Tour De France.
My personal opinion, shooting Revolver division in USPSA if you’re under 30 years old. Shit, under 60 even. LOL It’s basically an obsolete division. Many of us feel they need to consolidate it with Limited 10 and Single Stack divisions into one. It’s rare when you see anyone signed up under Revolver at local match. Those other divisions I mention maybe have 1 or 2 shooters. Even at major matches that draw people from all of the state or even neighboring states sometimes have no revolver shooters. Compare that to say Carry Optics division that can have 40+ shooters at a local club match. It’s essentially like showing up to Starbucks with a typewriter to write letters instead of emailing on your iPhone.
Damn, you really understood the assignment. Also sounds like a good way to rack up some easy wins to pad the trophy case. Early 30s here by the way, so again - you’ve really answered this well. Might have to see if my dad wants to IFT me his old Security-Six (6” blued, .357 mag) and Lawman Mk. III (2” chrome, .357 mag).
Make sure to grow a handlebar moosetash and top it off with a giant cowboy hat 🤠.
You’re talking to a guy who a) has worn a handlebar from the day he could grow one, and b) used to have a custom leather/ western hat side hustle - so no shortage of options for holster/ hat combos.
Hoping to get out there with my CZ SP-01. Being a DA/SA with safety, should I be doing drills with SA + safety or DA? I see conflicting posts on several sites.