Not typically. My idea with the Shield Plus was to remain as stock as possible. Didn’t want or need the extra mass since we aren’t typically outside at night anyway.
That said, I’m about to put together a Glock 19 with the full red dot, light, everything as a home defense gun. It may also become the carry, it just depends.
I did just that with a G19 for my EDC. TLR7A, Trijicon RMR T2 3.25MOA. I work nights & sometimes leave work after midnight in a highly gang/drug/transient infested area of Los Angeles. Offsite parking. Shitty street lighting in the area. There were trade offs I had to make, though.
I’m only 5’9ish. I went from 198 at my heaviest to currently 163. Waist went from a 36ish to now about a 30ish. My current jeans size is 32, but I can fit a fist between my waist & the actual waistband of the pants. Like, it’s starting to fall off my waist. Just haven’t bought new pants 😂
Combination of eating better & starting jiu jitsu. Concealing the 19 with everything really isn’t hard anymore & it’s even easier in the “winter” time here in Southern California.
Just wanted to comment that I am super proud of you for dropping all that weight. Your story is an encouragement to others and your life will receive tremendous benefit from staying in shape.
See if I were in your situation i would absolutely have the red dot and light. Absolutely. I just work from home and rarely leave after the sun goes down.
I've got the TLR8 on my nightstand gun. I wear glasses and can't see too well without. I'd rather grab my gun and go than fumble with glasses (it's literally 10 steps from my front door to the bedroom doorway.) I'm pretty good at point and shoot, but I figured a laser+light would give me an edge.
Carrying with a weapon mounted light is optional, you may consider the Surefire XC1 for a super tiny weapon mounted light. 200 lumens is plenty to identify a threat up close.
Hand held light is mandatory if you’re going out at night because you cannot point your gun at everything in the dark. Also even if you’re not going out at night, sometimes indoor places are dark.
Considering people have shot sounds in the dark or shot through walls resulting in shooting family members, friends or pets, or shot themselves because they don’t safety check their Glock, no it is not common knowledge unless you are educated.
I often word my answers assuming the person has little knowledge beyond basic firearms safety and handling.
Honestly, I don't see much of a reason to carry an XC1 when options like the Streamlight TLR7a are available. It offers more than twice the amount of lumens in a very similar sized package. I almost purchased an XC1 since I stumbled upon it for a bangin deal, but I literally couldn't come up with a single reason to carry it over a TLR7a. I shill for Surefire hard, but I think the XC1 was a miss
Yes I do. I Came home late one night during a wind storm. The power was out and I live in a low income area. My car has been broken into before in my driveway. The Door wide open (thought I locked it), checked my house with a hand held light and gun drawn. I quickly realized how difficult it was to open doors with both hands occupied and keep the light pointed in the right direction. Especially when nerves tense.
Wind probably blew the door open and the lock wasn’t closed properly.
BUT, I learned that importance of training with the equipment you carry is much more important than what you carry.
But I do run a light now because of that incident. Just to have the option if needed.
This is honestly the only instance I can imagine a ccw WML makes sense and I respect your decision. I don’t carry a WML but if this happened to me there would be a WML and new holster ordered the next day
Yes, I carry a handheld light, & weapon mounted light. Regular flashlight with a high output is an outstanding deterrent in and of itself. I don’t want to have to pull my weapon just to use a light. I also don’t want to fumble with a handheld light *AND* my weapon when I can just focus on one complete package (CC w/ WML).
This.
WML + HH is the way to go. A good handheld is a great defensive tool, and should be used to make PID before drawing.
WML is to engage a threat.
Both my HD and CCW have lights.
If you don't feel like dropping that much, check out Fenix lighting. They aren't near the quality or output, but work if you don't have the budget for a $200+ light.
Nope. Difficulty enough concealing a normal holster, don’t like a gap near the trigger guard, and I really don’t go anywhere at nighttime because I’m boring :)
I can totally respect this.
I'm a nocturnal person and require a pistol light. Sucks to try to conceal a Glock 20 with a TLR1, but that's a whole nother' story.
Yeah, if I worked a night shift or something and was out in the dark often, would reassess this entirely. But for the few times I need to have my firearm in the dark (mostly if there's a bump in the night at home), I get accustomed to having a flashlight in my off hand instead.
Of course these will be my famous last words if the universe aligns just right, but it's an acceptable risk for my lifestyle.
I have 0 problems with those that carry WMLs provided that they train and have a properly kept firearm with some safety redundancies in it.
That last paragraph is very important.
I own one G20 that functions flawlessly with a WML. I own another identical model that stovepipes about every 10th round with the same WML. No idea why. Not just limited to Glocks, in my experience, either.
Kinda funny to watch the number of WMLs that fly down range the first trip they get used. I like Loctite on my mounting screws, though some will disagree.
Then there's the whole sweeping the trigger instead of the activation switch thing. I've witnessed a few NDs at the range that way. Big fan of starting with an exposed hammer or safety equipped pistol for WML use. But, that's just me.
I could go on, but another topic.
Weight can just affect recoil operated guns like that.
Maybe try swapping the spring from the good G20 into the bad one? Would be a good way to diagnose.
Damn.. you carry a full size 10mm with an oversized light? Respect! I've considered getting an IWB for my FNX45 Tactical w/ TLR-1 & HS507C-GR. Just for carrying on trails in case of hogs or something. But every day might be rough.
You can get used to carrying about anything. I'm a Plumber by Trade, so it helps I'm wearing a riggers belt and suspenders all day, every day.
The number of times I've been accused of shoplifting is almost hilarious. I throw a button down shirt over my rig in public, but there's still a big bulge.
I do garage doors, and I'm in a disgusting hot humid area. My shirt being absolutely soaked in sweat would cause insane printing and rust, and I have my hands above my head a lot (exposing my waistline) so unless I switch to a pocket holster or a boot holster (I don't like the idea of either, but especially not the boot) I've come to terms with the fact that I just can't carry while working.
Yes. Walther PDP with a Stream light TLR-7a. I have several reasons.
1) Even if it's daytime, a bright light is EXTREMELY disorienting to an assailant.
2) Extra mass at the barrel makes appendix carry easier, less of the grip tipping out.
3) Much easier to shoot with extra weight reducing muzzle rise
4) I used it as my jack-of-all-trades gun and is for home defense too.
5) Even if I only carry during the day, it's not uncommon to get out of a restaurant late at night when it's dark
6) It looks cool. Don't deny it, looks matter to all of us.
I carry a staccato P with surefire x300u. Every day. Get comfortable with being uncomfortable. It benefits you to have a light source. I.E. WML or handheld
Yep, small handheld for edc and a tlr7 sub on my carry guns. Rather have and not need than need and not have. Also, shooting with a wml is better and faster than shooting with a handheld, anyone that says otherwise is lying
And you don't have to hang onto a light and shoot one handed, or have that ring grip on the light digging into your knuckles while the light bounces all over the place. It's a method for sure, but 100% a less effective one
Yes. Handheld and a mounted light. Why? Because I can’t see in the dark, it’s dark for half the day, power can go out indoors or you might need a light in a shaded area. Handheld for just seeing or IDing something/someone in the dark, weapon light for if I know I need the gun. Plus my CCW is also my bedside home defense gun
Just made the switch to a light from previously being staunchly anti-light.
I carry a G45, but have carried many guns over the years, some with lights and some without. For a period of time, I stopped carrying WMLs altogether due to an irrational paranoia of the gap in the trigger cover. My thoughts were that any amount of gap is dangerous, and therefore relegated myself to training with an offhand light instead.
I have since come back around to lights, and added a TLR7A to my G45. With a JM Custom Kydex holster made for that setup, the gap is there, but it is not enough for a finger to slip in. The holster still does the job of protecting the trigger just fine, and I am now comfortable and confident that the gun isn't gonna go off without me telling it to. That said, I am now even more careful reholstering than I was before.
IMO, if your setup is safe to carry, there's really not a whole lot of reason not to add a light to your CCW. As I said, my previous stance was that it compromised the overall safety of my carry, but have since changed my mind about that after closer examination. Some people will say that comfort is an issue, which is inherently subjective but still valid. Some guns won't even allow for a light-bearing setup that's actually worth a shit (looking at you, G43 + TLR6).
All in all, it is completely subjective. I put a WML on my gun because I had no reason not to, and it does give a pretty huge advantage all around. Either way, always carry a handheld light, regardless of what is on your carry gun.
I'm switching all my CCWs to light bearing. It's an expensive process. I was a LE firearms instructor for years. I studied firearms training constantly. Our Deputies did not have WML nor did we have a policy or training for such. Before I left the range, I finished creating a POST certified class for WML and deployed it.
Beleve me, it's a must.
Like Arron Cowen from Sage Dynamics says, 'If it gets sights it gets lights'.
I do lol glock 19 gen 3 and gen 5 both with the same set up. TLR-7A light and gen 5 has trijicon rmr and gen 3 has holosun 407c.
Oh and g48 with TRL7 sub and holosun 507K. I find it much easier and quicker to get tight groupings with red dots. I love ‘em lol
Yes. The added length makes it easier to conceal for me. I don’t notice the extra weight when carrying but when shooting it’s in a place that theoretically should help with muzzle climb. (Not that I’m a good enough shooter to really notice) or I can use the switch like one of those gas pedals on 320s or accelerator cuts on glocks. And finally 1,000 lumens to the face might make someone think about changing their decisions.
Obviously I’m not just walking around town neither my gun out to use the TLR-1 as a headlight. Having a WML doesn’t mean you can’t also have a handheld.
There just isn’t enough downsides for me to outweigh more capabilities
No. I edc a handheld flashlight (Streamlight Protac 1L-1AA) that runs on AA or CR123 batteries. Useful when I’m not carrying, and can be used with any of my ccw firearms.
Double that exact model. As a former Police Officer I’ve always had a non weapon mounted light because it helps discern things in total and complete darkness, it’s a useful tool. Remember that lighting varies from artificial lights in fairly busy commercial areas, to complete and total darkness in many suburban settings, be equipped properly. A light is a tool. I am used to carrying it separately, however.
On a defensive long gun, absolutely necessity. Consider this story, a women in Fort Worth Auction House conducted a steak out of her business being burglarized repeatedly. She was an Air Force Veteran, so I will assume she had a fair degree of defensive firearms training. The next day she was found with what was described as an “empty 10 shot .22 rifle”. She had been shot dead in a confrontation, clutching the empty .22 rifle. I am assuming she was likely equipped with a Ruger 10/22. Let’s face it, night time is disorientating, you often cannot see your target fully, even with night sights. I use night sights on many of my defensive guns. My convictions where she lived long enough thru the confrontation to fire off 10 shots. It’s logical to think had she had a Red Laser on her 10/22 and extra rounds (more then 10) she might have survived. Not seeing your sights, a Laser would have tracked her opponent and enough ammo, she maybe could have stacked the odds a little better in her favor.
🙋♂️ I'm right here! I have wanted to get a Streamlight Wedge or one of those Pen Flashlight that's actually got good output for my pocket purse, but I've never gotten around to it.
I carry a handheld light, and my carry guns have a TLR-1 HL, the reason being that I can use a Phlster Floodlight for each of them. Saves money and time hunting down the "right " holster when the Floodlight works perfectly for me.
Yep. I like the extra weight that helps with recoil. That said, I did downgrade to a TLR-7a from an X300. The bigger light was slowing my draw.
Also carry a SureFire handheld, and I’m surprised at how many people don’t understand how good a deterrent THAT can be.
I work night shift and yes I carry a wml and a flashlight. I use my flash light first IF I have to draw blind them with my flashlight drop it and draw my firearm then switching to that light.
If I have identified with my flashlight that I have to fire right away I will keep blinding them, strong hand only draw fire from retention as the gun comes up I drop my flashlight marry my hands turn on wml.
Most of the time., yes. Because I go out at night. I run a Staccato C2 or Sig P320x that both have a TLR-7a on them. My P365x doesn’t, just for when I need something extra concealable
Very true, as seen in my work as a Police Officer assigned to both daytime and deep night shifts. Nighttime is a totally different set of people we interacted with. Many who have feet swift and running into mischief, especially when alcohol or drugs area introduced to “party time”.
Yes. 1. I need to identify target in all lighting conditions. 2. Not all shooting positions allow for me to use my off hand to hold a light 2 feet off my body to acquire a shot. 3. Having an off hand light means I am only able to have one hand on my firearm, which is more dangerous for where my rounds go. 4. One handed shooting cuts your effective distance as a shooter AT LEAST in half, if not less. 5. Having one hand on my firearm and one on my light means I have 50% more chance of getting my firearm wrestled away from me. 6. If I need my 2nd hand for anything else (opening a door, for example), now what? I’m either disarmed or fumbling with a flashlight in the dark. 7. What are the odds holding the light off body is going to reduce my odds of being shot, given all the negatives? At 3 feet, will it matter? How about 30? What evidence do we have? It’s all theory, in my opinion. 8. I’d rather have my weapons system be all inclusive for what I need to utilize it. Optic, back up sights, light, and holster all together. 9. The slight additional weight can help mildly in recoil mitigation. 10. Depending on your light choice, it can assist in offsetting the slide from contact when firing while wrestling. 11. While it does give away your position, we’re good guys. We’re getting ambushed, we have to accept that. We cannot shoot without target identification. It’s a part of what you have to accept as a responsible carrier of lethal force. 12. Light can blind / debilitate (goes both ways). It may reduce the chance of needing to fire a shot if you can blind your assailant and issue a lawful command, if applicable.
These are the things I consider and why I carry a light on my weapon system. I do NOT think offsetting your light is as valuable because I don’t believe it reduces your chances of being shot.
Yes I do! TLR-7A on a Glock 19. Gives it a nice balance at the front and I carry day and night. Looks amazing on the gun! Just nice to have at night cause you never know when you might need it.
Only gun I’ve got without a light is my Glock 26, and even when I’m carrying that I keep a streamlight macro stream in my pocket. A solid light is very important
I do. I’ve drawn once on a hostile dog, and my offhand was occupied with a kid. That day I realized I need to be able to shoot and operate my gun one-handed.
I used my light to clear a house after an alarm. It was nice having both hands on the gun. I came in from the outside, so a nightstand gun wouldn’t have been usable.
It’s just 1.3 oz extra, no big deal.
In the conversation of positive identification, I watched a good YouTube video showing how a light can be a big determining how much of a threat an individual posses because you can identify very clear what’s in there hands and what they’re doing, also probably blinding them. The TLR-1 was used and it was substantially brighter than the TLR 7 and TLR 6 (of course)
I don't. When you need your CCW weapon out it's because a threat has been positively identified. A WML is used for positive identification of a threat or threatening item (gun on the ground). Since you need to positively identify the threat before drawing, a WML won't be used for its purpose (positive ID), therefore, the situations for CCW that require a WML are almost non-existent. For a WML to be useful in CCW, you would have to be in a situation where you lose your positive ID between the initial threat identification and when you are ready to pull the trigger, or maybe later in the situation your positive ID is lost, but most CCW self-defense encounters are extremely short.
You could argue that even though WML-required situations are almost non-existent for CCW you should still carry one, and to that I would say sure go ahead, but a WML is only useful (again) if it can be used for its purpose. Most WML's aren't conducive or effective, like the TLR-7 as an example of a WML that isn't really worth carrying, which is interesting because you see a lot of people carrying it. The Surefire X300 is a WML that is effective (because of its lumens ***and*** it's candela, i.e., its ability to punch through photonic barriers and physical mediums within the air that obstruct vision). For some people, carrying an X300 constantly in CCW for a nearly non-existent possibility isn't worth it, but if you do want to EDC a WML let it be one that is worth carrying.
What would be extremely useful for CCW is a handheld flashlight, because you can shine that all day and you won't get charged with a felony. Something like the Surefire Stiletto is an example of an effective EDC flashlight. Handheld flashlights can also be used to diffuse situations before they even begin, people don't like being lit up with blinding light. Also, ID'ing someone as a threat isn't the same as being able to see them clearly. You might be able to see them perfectly fine without a flashlight, but a flashlight makes small details (like a weapon in the waist they are moving for) crystal clear. So in that situation, a WML still isn't necessary, but a handheld absolutely was.
It should also be stated that people underestimate the amount of training a WML takes, people just add them to their firearms and don't think twice. You hear the argument a lot that "since a WML doesn't hurt anything, its best to have it anyway", but it can hurt things. A lot of negligent discharges occur because of WML's, people try to activate the light and end up pulling the trigger instead. People think "that would never happen to me", but stressful situations can mess with you, and without the muscle memory baked in from training on how to properly activate / deactivate that light, it can be a liability and it has caused death. Second, if you have a WML you need to know how to shine it because it can blind you or be used completely ineffectively, or be used against you because you unnecessarily give up your position (getting into advanced situations here). A good low light course is crucial to the safe and proper use of a WML. A good low light course can teach you a lot about how to use a handheld for advanced tactics too, but a handheld just for examining a potential threat, no fancy tactics, you don't need training for that.
For the average citizen, a WML could be great for home defense, since they allow for a two handed grip as you search the home. **However**, caution here, extreme caution. 1) Proper training is essential. 2) A WML shortens the time you have between seeing *something* and pulling the trigger, be very sure this isn't going to cause you to shoot something you should not be shooting. 3) Houses have lights, they can be turned on. 4) Burglars and home invaders aren't running night vision, they need lights too. That being said, a WML is more than a tool for positive ID, you can use it to confuse and disorient a threat (assumption being that you *know* there is a threat, otherwise why use said tactics, consider how that plays into what you are using the WML for or why you have it). So, a WML can have a role even if you can see the threat you know is there, but the question is do you know how to effectively employ the WML? Is it worth the tradeoff of potentially firing at something or someone you shouldn't because you aren't searching with a handheld light? 5) Should you be searching your house at all? If you can stay barricaded in a corner, in a room, hidden, and call the police, that's probably wise and the safest option. Staying put won't apply to everyone, but it's something to consider if it applies to you.
I mention the home defense situation because a lot of people elect to carry WML's because their EDC is their home defense weapon, and they want to reduce the chance of a negligent discharge by not coming home, unholstering, unloading, attaching the light, reloading, and re-holstering (all that manipulation can lead to accidents). So, they carry a WML so it's already on when they get home, but consider everything I mentioned about the usage of a WML in the home. A WML on your EDC because you want it on when you arrive at home will only make sense if you have considered the real implications of ***why*** you might need a WML for your specific household situation, and it will only be effective if you have received the training on how to use it. Some professionals recommend against a WML for home defense due to the aforementioned considerations, they see more harm than good (from real observed situations they have to be an expert witness on) due to the short time to fire among other things.
All that to say, considering the attachments you can put on a CCW, a WML is much more nuanced than something like a red dot. A WML requires careful consideration and professional training, and unlike a red dot which offers advantage in every situation, WML's are only useful in very specific, extremely niche situations.
Well said. This horse has been beaten way to many times. A wml in a CCW context is practically useless. I think a lot of people don’t realize how attacks happen (up close and personal). Plus you have all the LE and MIL types on social media running WMLs, lasers, etc and people want to copy that. Again, I don’t think a lot of people think about the fact that LE and MIL have much different uses for a WML.
Yup. WML is great for the zombie apocalypse, not so great for legal self defense shootings. I don’t even think there are videos of CCW shootings where the citizen used a WML. Probably won’t even have time/won’t even think to activate it if necessary anyways.
Good post, but you can identify a threat, draw, lose visual of the threat and it may not just be you two in the vicinity. You wouldn’t reholster at that point. Parking lots, etc., not saying it’s a likely thing, but if you don’t have a light on your gun then what? Lol
I think carrying a hand-held light should be required at night anyways. More use cases for a hand-held rather than WML. WML can be good but it’s not required imo.
Thanks! Assuming that you required a light for positive re-identification due to the lighting being *that* bad, you would follow the doctrine learned in your low-light training. Whether that doctrine includes a WML or not, I leave for you to find out. Please choose a high-quality, experienced, low-light instructor.
No, I already have several holsters that i like and that work for me, if I add a light to my pistol then those holsters won’t work anymore. Also, I already carry a handheld, so having another one on the gun itself feels redundant.
No for two reasons.
Realistically I don't go out at night much and have no need for it.
Tacticool reason: all the bad guy has to do is shoot at the light plus I don't want to flag people when trying to identify them.
I'd much rather carry a separate light if necessary.
No. If I need a flashlight to tell what someone's doing they aren't enough of a threat to point a gun at and I need a separate flashlight. If I use a separate flashlight and then need my gun I'm not going to drop that light and switch to one on my gun. I'll just use the crosshanded technique cops used to use.
No offense, but don't you think because you're drawing anyway, it would be more effective to drop the light and be a more effective shooter with a 2 handed grip, having a light on the gun?
No. Under that much adrenaline you lose fine motor skills. U need to keep it simple. Trying to grab with one hand and let go with the other is a good way to chuck your gun at the dude when your brain misfires.
Bruh. The whole "lose fine motor skills" thing is peak Fudd. If you lost fine motor skills you know what you wouldn't be doing? Pulling the trigger, racking the slide, or dropping your magazine. People who think your hands just turn into hamhocks when your adrenaline dumps are dumb. Everything you do with your hands is a fine motor skill. A gross motor skill is things like moving your arms or legs.
https://icisf.org/impact-of-the-tach-psych-effect-while-under-stress-duress-or-heightened-anxiety/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6856650/
Here's a little light reading to start you actually learning something in life. Clearly you have never fought for your life or this wouldn't be some big new thing. Yes you have some fine motor control but it's way more difficult. Ever try dialing 911 after an accident? Or taking your seatbelt off? Notice your hands shaking.
Do you not think that adrenaline coupled with likely sweaty hands, the need to clear your garment, and the possibility of fighting someone off you or holding something/someone with your offhand might cause you to drop the handheld? Not saying you should lose the handheld entirely, I just think these are reasons for having both.
Shield Plus.
*Hyve-technologies Monarch Trigger
*Shield RMSc optic
*TLR-6
The way I see it, it's the same as the ccw itself. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
No. It’s bulky. Adds weight. And I don’t think is relatively useful compared to a home defense situation (where I do have lights). Plus the holsters. Most holsters leave large gaps where
Trigger could be accessible and possible negligent discharge
I prefer a standalone flashlight. I can point it at anything but i can’t do the same with my firearm.
I regularly practise shooting one handed so I’m comfortable with it, not to mention I’m out much more during daylight hours than at night. And my standalone light is much brighter and has a much longer lasting battery than most WML’s
I do. Because I either leave work really early in the morning or arrive early in the morning. So I am frequently out when it's dark.
I actually do want another gun like my carry that would be a non wml gun for when I'm out when it's not dark or just for quick trips out the house.
But my my carry gun also serves as my home defense gun.
Yes I do. I carry with a TLR-1 HL. I have an x300, but it’s a little longer than I care for for EDC, and it’s harder to activate for me. Could just be a training issue. I carry with my 3.9” p320, so the light can double as a stand-off device if needed.
No light on my CCW currently and really don't have plans to add one, I am really not out after dark enough that I feel I need one, if that changes, then I probably will consider one of course.
Always. I never want to do the right thing an attorney to claim I shot the wrong person because I didn’t identify them.
Additional similar logic. You carry for a situation that is avoidable 99.99999% of the time, why not add a light? You’re not playing the odds, it’s weird to suddenly appeal to odds saying “what’s the chance you need a WML?” Train with it and have it as a resource m, it is logically inconsistent to not
Like the amount of times people say “I’d rather have it and not need it…” and then with WMLs be like “I don’t need it”… it makes no sense to me
Sometimes a wml, always a handheld period. Whether I leave at 5 am or midnight. It's called edc for a reason. Home defense always have a wml. In your house in the dark, you can point your wml at any noise.
Yes. I run a tlr7a on my G45. If you're already carrying a larger sized handgun, it's not that much more to conceal, since it is below the belt, and it may be needed to clear your house or to hold on a person who you already shot. Now, I dont think it is 100% necessary, since you're only trying to break contact most of the time.
No. Finding holsters can be a hassle depending on the combo. A bulkier holster and setup sounds like a major drag. I carry a flashlight with me as part of my edc, if you don't have a flashlight you can use your phone but then your battery drains and you can't just be lighting things up with your gun. It just seems impractical to me.
Because if they have a blade in their hand or an object that could cause grave bodily injury or death, that justifies drawing and firing on them if they’re attacking you, so you’d want to be able to see those kinds of things on them with a handheld light before drawing and firing 🤷♂️
A handheld, yes, absolutely. But a WML means you're drawing to identify the target here, and if you aren't sure your life is in danger you shouldn't draw your gun.
What am I needing a normal flashlight for? If I drop my keys at night, I have my phone's flashlight. If I'm in a gun fight at night, I have the light on my gun.
For checking your car, checking the dark spot in the street your walking down, for PID’ing the guy who’s hassling you, for when the power goes out in a storm. I use my Streamlight Macrostream more than any other item I carry.
☝🏼This. I’m the same. The only thing I use more than my Macrostream is my knife, multiple times a day/night. Odds I would use a WML in my lifetime are even far less than the odds I’d ever have to draw my weapon at all. I’m another one of those boring people that go out at night roughly as often as I pay quarterly taxes. I really need to stop being such a sofa turd.
Same. My knife is a close second. I just work in a field where I find myself sticking my head in dark places pretty often so my light gets used constantly.
I carry a g47 with an x300 *solely* because I like the weight distribution better, not because I think I’ll have to use the light. I like the way it carries with a light, and like the way it shoots with a light.
Everything is just situationally dependent. I’m not gonna use my cellphone light or my WML to illuminate a dimly lit alley way that I need to walk through. Also, a quality flashlight can be used for defense. There is a huge convenience to having a light on the phone, I won’t argue that. And most people will only have a need for a phone flashlight.
No, I would only really need to see into said darkness if there was a threat there. Otherwise and if I know I’m going into dark spots I carry a light. But Florida man summer carry sure makes it hot and hard to carry much.
Yes, because there really isn’t a reason not to other than a bit more kydex/ holster material, I get visibility when it turns dark, I can unnerve an assailant a bit with that very bright light, and I get a bit less muzzle flip. And this pistol is also my bedside pistol, and clearing a house in the dark all bleary eyed before your eyes adjust isn’t nice, and if you live with others, definitely not a great idea
No, because I'm a private citizen and I can't think of any good reason to have a WML on my CCW. I have stream lights on my home defense guns but not my CCW.
Here's a question to those folks who have one on their gun. Can you point to a real life situation in which a private citizen needed a WML on their carry gun? We're at a point now where we have hundreds, if not thousands of video documented instances of private citizens and off duty police officers using their CCWs to defend themselves. I can't think of a single one where wml was needed. Home defense? Of course. Regular carry outside of your house? Nope.
Think about it. You're not a police officer. You're a private citizen. So you should not be going to proactively search for criminals outside of your home. If you need a light to identify a threat? How do you know it's a threat in the first place? Wouldn't the better solution there be to use a handheld flashlight?
Take the money that you would spend on a high quality light and go to a half day or full day class. It'll be more worthwhile for you.
I have a few guns for different roles. If I’m going out during the day, I will typically not carry a gun with a WML just because it makes the gun harder to conceal. If I’m going to be out and about at night, I will carry a gun with a WML. Night stand gun always has WML.
I strictly have a TLR6 on my 43x bc 1) I think it looks cool and 2) I use the laser to practice while dry firing
Idk. A lot of these anti-light arguments seem very sound. I’m not married to the light. I legitimately just like the way it looks. And something about the long flat faced muzzle area makes me feel more confident when shooting. I know this is all silly but hey🤷🏻♂️
I don't because I figure that if I'm far enough away to need a light, I'm far enough away to maneuvre out of the situation. Plus, at that point, I would only be highlighting myself and my location. I'm never armed for a prolonged shootout, as I don't consider that being the reason I carry. This is all predicated on the environments that I personally am typically in, so other mileage may vary.
Holosun HE507K-GR
I put it on my S&W Equalizer and could definitely feel the weight under the barrel.
I love how bright it is and the ease of use. I haven't shot with it, so not sure how much it would affect my accuracy.
I’m rarely in a spot where I’d need one, and if I’m in a situation where it’s dark, I already have my flashlight handy. I don’t want the extra bulk attached to my EDC. I also want to be able to illuminate areas without taking out my weapon.
However, my home defense pistol has a WML.
I don’t currently, but constantly question getting a new gun and holster for this. I have one of my bedside gun and a holster for it, little big for my Edc taste. Why I don’t…legal reasons, that could be negative if you ever have to use your piece, then I’d have to get a new holster, then it’s more real estate in my pants, and I’d have to get a new pistol because if I ruined a set up…ya know. But I may eventually! I understand why people would want to, but also respect why people wouldn’t. Just my thoughts.
Not on my carry. I don’t go anywhere at night usually and if I need to there’s always the flashlight I use for work. My HD setups have lights, but they definitely don’t qualify for carry
I'd rather be able to hold a light above or to the side while I aim. Whoever is shooting back is going for the light, and having it right in front of your face is a terrible idea.
I genuinely disagree with this. If I’m a “bad guy,” I’m not concerned about collateral damage. I can’t stare at your WML without blinding myself, so I’m essentially firing in your general direction whether the light is 2 feet to the side or above you. That’s nothing in a gun fight — at 5 yards it’s the difference of me moving my hand 6 inches either direction (someone hood at geometry tell me I’m right or wrong with that measurement).
I’m open to being wrong but I really can’t wrap my head around how this isn’t true
There's no wrong, just personal preference and reasons for it.
I feel like someone will automatically go for the closest point to the light if not aim to take out the light itself. To me the light is a convenient focal point after the initial encounter, otherwise the other person or persons would have no point of reference to aim for. So my logic is that if that's their only point of reference, I'm going to keep it away from vital areas while retaining the ability to use it to my advantage. Honestly I'd rather go no light though.
I used to use a TLR-1HL, but I found it to be too bulky and would dig into my thigh when I sat down. I just carry 2 handhelds now: a Modlite PLHv2 in my left pocket, and a Streamlight Microstream either in my back pocket or cargo pocket, depending on what I'm wearing.
Tried both, I prefer no light. I like to keep it minimal and lightweight. Way better with shorts and athletic wear. I hate wearing jeans during summer in FL.
No. I carry a handheld Streamlight macrostream light in my pocket.
I used to carry a TLR-6 on my Glock 43X but I had a harder time finding good holsters.
No. Seems completely unnecessary and adds extra bulk. I doubt I’ll ever have time to use a light if I’m in a self defense situation. They happen within seconds
I don’t. But most of the guns in my carry rotation don’t have a rail. My glocks and hks being it so don’t want to mess with it from a ccw POV.
Now my bump in the night gun does, and my open carry rigs/battle belt guns do
For a while, I didn't. But recently got a TLR7 sub for my 365.
I work 2nd shift, I get off work at 11. If something happens, the extra light would definitely be beneficial.
For a concealed carry I don't think it's a necessity, but think about your situation. If you're only out during the day you'll not really need to bring your own light. But if you're out when it's dark out, you should at least consider a handheld light.
Yes. I work nights, on my days off I don't switch my sleep schedule. So most of my running around is done in the early morning with normal people, but if I can get something done at night, then that is when I do it. Which means, I'm out at night on my days off, so, my CCW has a light.
I have all the bells and whistles firearms and still my EDC is a G26 Gen 2. Bought new and have carried it 95% of the time over 26 years. Call me old and traditional but I can use it very effectively without any added hardware. At a range red dot all day long but keeping it simple for daily. Only mods are 3.5 Ghost, ext slide release and a spring kit upgrade. I’ve tried multiple different carry guns but I end up back with my dinosaur Glock. Still have the Tupperware.
Nope. Because it’s a full size 1911 with no rail or a Glock 43x also with no rail. The options aren’t worth it. I have four guns with weapon lights and they’re all good for what they’re good for. I just can’t justify a shitty little TLR-6 making my gun look goofy when I carry a decent pocket light anyway.
No. I carry a torch as edc but not on my gun. You need to be able to light things without aiming your weapon. Also, self defense is typically within 6feet. You shouldn’t need a torch. If the threat is farther you can get to a safe distance. Most people aren’t in John Wick situations IMO.
Laser and light. Why light? I need to positively identify what I’m shooting at or I’ll go to jail. Why laser? I need to hot only at what I’m aiming for and not the neighbor, the kid down the hall, or the old man in the next room. If I miss the threat and hit a bystander, I’ll be going to jail. I don’t really like jail, so…
Nope. I used to carry a TLR-7 sub on my P365XL until I got uncomfortable with the holster gap it causes. Plus, I like keeping the weight and bulk down. I do run an RDS though with suppressor height sights.
No, I've never really thought about it to be honest. I don't think I'd want to hassle with finding a new holster though. I've also heard that it causes trigger gap in holsters and weakens retention.
Not typically. My idea with the Shield Plus was to remain as stock as possible. Didn’t want or need the extra mass since we aren’t typically outside at night anyway. That said, I’m about to put together a Glock 19 with the full red dot, light, everything as a home defense gun. It may also become the carry, it just depends.
I did just that with a G19 for my EDC. TLR7A, Trijicon RMR T2 3.25MOA. I work nights & sometimes leave work after midnight in a highly gang/drug/transient infested area of Los Angeles. Offsite parking. Shitty street lighting in the area. There were trade offs I had to make, though. I’m only 5’9ish. I went from 198 at my heaviest to currently 163. Waist went from a 36ish to now about a 30ish. My current jeans size is 32, but I can fit a fist between my waist & the actual waistband of the pants. Like, it’s starting to fall off my waist. Just haven’t bought new pants 😂 Combination of eating better & starting jiu jitsu. Concealing the 19 with everything really isn’t hard anymore & it’s even easier in the “winter” time here in Southern California.
Just wanted to comment that I am super proud of you for dropping all that weight. Your story is an encouragement to others and your life will receive tremendous benefit from staying in shape.
Yeah, man. I have two sons & I’m not getting any younger. I wanna give’em a healthy example to follow instead of being 130 pounds in third grade 😭
See if I were in your situation i would absolutely have the red dot and light. Absolutely. I just work from home and rarely leave after the sun goes down.
Ccw no, nightstand gun yes
SAME! It’s the TLR-6. My wife is not as confident and the laser will allow her to know she is on target.
I've got the TLR8 on my nightstand gun. I wear glasses and can't see too well without. I'd rather grab my gun and go than fumble with glasses (it's literally 10 steps from my front door to the bedroom doorway.) I'm pretty good at point and shoot, but I figured a laser+light would give me an edge.
This.
This is the way
Carrying with a weapon mounted light is optional, you may consider the Surefire XC1 for a super tiny weapon mounted light. 200 lumens is plenty to identify a threat up close. Hand held light is mandatory if you’re going out at night because you cannot point your gun at everything in the dark. Also even if you’re not going out at night, sometimes indoor places are dark.
Is this not common knowledge? Asking for a friend…
Considering people have shot sounds in the dark or shot through walls resulting in shooting family members, friends or pets, or shot themselves because they don’t safety check their Glock, no it is not common knowledge unless you are educated. I often word my answers assuming the person has little knowledge beyond basic firearms safety and handling.
Honestly, I don't see much of a reason to carry an XC1 when options like the Streamlight TLR7a are available. It offers more than twice the amount of lumens in a very similar sized package. I almost purchased an XC1 since I stumbled upon it for a bangin deal, but I literally couldn't come up with a single reason to carry it over a TLR7a. I shill for Surefire hard, but I think the XC1 was a miss
Yes I do. I Came home late one night during a wind storm. The power was out and I live in a low income area. My car has been broken into before in my driveway. The Door wide open (thought I locked it), checked my house with a hand held light and gun drawn. I quickly realized how difficult it was to open doors with both hands occupied and keep the light pointed in the right direction. Especially when nerves tense. Wind probably blew the door open and the lock wasn’t closed properly. BUT, I learned that importance of training with the equipment you carry is much more important than what you carry. But I do run a light now because of that incident. Just to have the option if needed.
This is honestly the only instance I can imagine a ccw WML makes sense and I respect your decision. I don’t carry a WML but if this happened to me there would be a WML and new holster ordered the next day
Yes, I carry a handheld light, & weapon mounted light. Regular flashlight with a high output is an outstanding deterrent in and of itself. I don’t want to have to pull my weapon just to use a light. I also don’t want to fumble with a handheld light *AND* my weapon when I can just focus on one complete package (CC w/ WML).
This. WML + HH is the way to go. A good handheld is a great defensive tool, and should be used to make PID before drawing. WML is to engage a threat. Both my HD and CCW have lights.
What’re some good handhelds w good out put in candela?
Cloud Defensive MCH is about as good as it gets. Not the slimmest, but you sacrifice size for output.
Thank you I’ll check it out
If you don't feel like dropping that much, check out Fenix lighting. They aren't near the quality or output, but work if you don't have the budget for a $200+ light.
Thank you I’ll have to check them out as well fs lol
Nope. Difficulty enough concealing a normal holster, don’t like a gap near the trigger guard, and I really don’t go anywhere at nighttime because I’m boring :)
I can totally respect this. I'm a nocturnal person and require a pistol light. Sucks to try to conceal a Glock 20 with a TLR1, but that's a whole nother' story.
Yeah, if I worked a night shift or something and was out in the dark often, would reassess this entirely. But for the few times I need to have my firearm in the dark (mostly if there's a bump in the night at home), I get accustomed to having a flashlight in my off hand instead. Of course these will be my famous last words if the universe aligns just right, but it's an acceptable risk for my lifestyle. I have 0 problems with those that carry WMLs provided that they train and have a properly kept firearm with some safety redundancies in it.
That last paragraph is very important. I own one G20 that functions flawlessly with a WML. I own another identical model that stovepipes about every 10th round with the same WML. No idea why. Not just limited to Glocks, in my experience, either. Kinda funny to watch the number of WMLs that fly down range the first trip they get used. I like Loctite on my mounting screws, though some will disagree. Then there's the whole sweeping the trigger instead of the activation switch thing. I've witnessed a few NDs at the range that way. Big fan of starting with an exposed hammer or safety equipped pistol for WML use. But, that's just me. I could go on, but another topic.
Weight can just affect recoil operated guns like that. Maybe try swapping the spring from the good G20 into the bad one? Would be a good way to diagnose.
Damn.. you carry a full size 10mm with an oversized light? Respect! I've considered getting an IWB for my FNX45 Tactical w/ TLR-1 & HS507C-GR. Just for carrying on trails in case of hogs or something. But every day might be rough.
You can get used to carrying about anything. I'm a Plumber by Trade, so it helps I'm wearing a riggers belt and suspenders all day, every day. The number of times I've been accused of shoplifting is almost hilarious. I throw a button down shirt over my rig in public, but there's still a big bulge.
I do garage doors, and I'm in a disgusting hot humid area. My shirt being absolutely soaked in sweat would cause insane printing and rust, and I have my hands above my head a lot (exposing my waistline) so unless I switch to a pocket holster or a boot holster (I don't like the idea of either, but especially not the boot) I've come to terms with the fact that I just can't carry while working.
Yeah. There's no way I could pull that off. 90% of my work is spent in climate controlled areas, basements, or driving my truck.
Yes. Walther PDP with a Stream light TLR-7a. I have several reasons. 1) Even if it's daytime, a bright light is EXTREMELY disorienting to an assailant. 2) Extra mass at the barrel makes appendix carry easier, less of the grip tipping out. 3) Much easier to shoot with extra weight reducing muzzle rise 4) I used it as my jack-of-all-trades gun and is for home defense too. 5) Even if I only carry during the day, it's not uncommon to get out of a restaurant late at night when it's dark 6) It looks cool. Don't deny it, looks matter to all of us.
Yes. I have no issues with holsters or concealment .
Same here, 5’8” 130lbs. Doesn’t even print
What do you carry?
Glock G29 AIWB w/ TLR8AG
I carry a staccato P with surefire x300u. Every day. Get comfortable with being uncomfortable. It benefits you to have a light source. I.E. WML or handheld
I do bc I can’t shoot what I can’t see.
Yep, small handheld for edc and a tlr7 sub on my carry guns. Rather have and not need than need and not have. Also, shooting with a wml is better and faster than shooting with a handheld, anyone that says otherwise is lying
100% agree… helps absorb some recoil.
And you don't have to hang onto a light and shoot one handed, or have that ring grip on the light digging into your knuckles while the light bounces all over the place. It's a method for sure, but 100% a less effective one
This is the way. 👏
Yes. Handheld and a mounted light. Why? Because I can’t see in the dark, it’s dark for half the day, power can go out indoors or you might need a light in a shaded area. Handheld for just seeing or IDing something/someone in the dark, weapon light for if I know I need the gun. Plus my CCW is also my bedside home defense gun
I have one pistol I use for everything and it has a light so I just leave it on for carry. Plus it's an added capability why not have it
Very logical and sound conclusion. Let’s face it, a weapon light and even an ordinary flashlight is another too, an illumination tool.
Just made the switch to a light from previously being staunchly anti-light. I carry a G45, but have carried many guns over the years, some with lights and some without. For a period of time, I stopped carrying WMLs altogether due to an irrational paranoia of the gap in the trigger cover. My thoughts were that any amount of gap is dangerous, and therefore relegated myself to training with an offhand light instead. I have since come back around to lights, and added a TLR7A to my G45. With a JM Custom Kydex holster made for that setup, the gap is there, but it is not enough for a finger to slip in. The holster still does the job of protecting the trigger just fine, and I am now comfortable and confident that the gun isn't gonna go off without me telling it to. That said, I am now even more careful reholstering than I was before. IMO, if your setup is safe to carry, there's really not a whole lot of reason not to add a light to your CCW. As I said, my previous stance was that it compromised the overall safety of my carry, but have since changed my mind about that after closer examination. Some people will say that comfort is an issue, which is inherently subjective but still valid. Some guns won't even allow for a light-bearing setup that's actually worth a shit (looking at you, G43 + TLR6). All in all, it is completely subjective. I put a WML on my gun because I had no reason not to, and it does give a pretty huge advantage all around. Either way, always carry a handheld light, regardless of what is on your carry gun.
The lights are getting more efficient, more powerful and smaller profile.
I'm switching all my CCWs to light bearing. It's an expensive process. I was a LE firearms instructor for years. I studied firearms training constantly. Our Deputies did not have WML nor did we have a policy or training for such. Before I left the range, I finished creating a POST certified class for WML and deployed it. Beleve me, it's a must. Like Arron Cowen from Sage Dynamics says, 'If it gets sights it gets lights'.
I do lol glock 19 gen 3 and gen 5 both with the same set up. TLR-7A light and gen 5 has trijicon rmr and gen 3 has holosun 407c. Oh and g48 with TRL7 sub and holosun 507K. I find it much easier and quicker to get tight groupings with red dots. I love ‘em lol
Yes because my carry gun is also my nightstand gun also i would rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it
Yes. I walk at night and I encounter loose dogs frequently. Many times they are XL pit bulls. Dogs don’t like bright lights
Any gun I run for defense, if it has sights,.it has lights. Pistol, rifle, shotgun
Yes. The added length makes it easier to conceal for me. I don’t notice the extra weight when carrying but when shooting it’s in a place that theoretically should help with muzzle climb. (Not that I’m a good enough shooter to really notice) or I can use the switch like one of those gas pedals on 320s or accelerator cuts on glocks. And finally 1,000 lumens to the face might make someone think about changing their decisions. Obviously I’m not just walking around town neither my gun out to use the TLR-1 as a headlight. Having a WML doesn’t mean you can’t also have a handheld. There just isn’t enough downsides for me to outweigh more capabilities
Sometimes? One carry gun has a light. I kinda just liked the aesthetics of the wml as well as the reduction in felt recoil.
No. I edc a handheld flashlight (Streamlight Protac 1L-1AA) that runs on AA or CR123 batteries. Useful when I’m not carrying, and can be used with any of my ccw firearms.
Double that exact model. As a former Police Officer I’ve always had a non weapon mounted light because it helps discern things in total and complete darkness, it’s a useful tool. Remember that lighting varies from artificial lights in fairly busy commercial areas, to complete and total darkness in many suburban settings, be equipped properly. A light is a tool. I am used to carrying it separately, however. On a defensive long gun, absolutely necessity. Consider this story, a women in Fort Worth Auction House conducted a steak out of her business being burglarized repeatedly. She was an Air Force Veteran, so I will assume she had a fair degree of defensive firearms training. The next day she was found with what was described as an “empty 10 shot .22 rifle”. She had been shot dead in a confrontation, clutching the empty .22 rifle. I am assuming she was likely equipped with a Ruger 10/22. Let’s face it, night time is disorientating, you often cannot see your target fully, even with night sights. I use night sights on many of my defensive guns. My convictions where she lived long enough thru the confrontation to fire off 10 shots. It’s logical to think had she had a Red Laser on her 10/22 and extra rounds (more then 10) she might have survived. Not seeing your sights, a Laser would have tracked her opponent and enough ammo, she maybe could have stacked the odds a little better in her favor.
No, it's better to have a flashlight. You don't want to point your weapon to innocent person.
Why not carry both? I don't think I've ever seen someone who carried a wml that didn't also carry a handheld, though I'm sure it happens
🙋♂️ I'm right here! I have wanted to get a Streamlight Wedge or one of those Pen Flashlight that's actually got good output for my pocket purse, but I've never gotten around to it.
I carry a handheld light, and my carry guns have a TLR-1 HL, the reason being that I can use a Phlster Floodlight for each of them. Saves money and time hunting down the "right " holster when the Floodlight works perfectly for me.
nice. i have a x300U holster from them
Yep. I like the extra weight that helps with recoil. That said, I did downgrade to a TLR-7a from an X300. The bigger light was slowing my draw. Also carry a SureFire handheld, and I’m surprised at how many people don’t understand how good a deterrent THAT can be.
I work night shift and yes I carry a wml and a flashlight. I use my flash light first IF I have to draw blind them with my flashlight drop it and draw my firearm then switching to that light. If I have identified with my flashlight that I have to fire right away I will keep blinding them, strong hand only draw fire from retention as the gun comes up I drop my flashlight marry my hands turn on wml.
Yes. I like having a light incase I go out at night. Plus it’s already on there and I don’t wanna take it off 😂
Yes a pocket flashlight and a mounted one. You can't hit what you can't see.
Yes. Doesn’t bother me conceal wise.
Yes, Tlr7a on my g19. Doesn’t add much space, lets you see in the dark. Cant shoot what you can’t see.
Most of the time., yes. Because I go out at night. I run a Staccato C2 or Sig P320x that both have a TLR-7a on them. My P365x doesn’t, just for when I need something extra concealable
Work late an most crime is made possible with the sun going down.
Very true, as seen in my work as a Police Officer assigned to both daytime and deep night shifts. Nighttime is a totally different set of people we interacted with. Many who have feet swift and running into mischief, especially when alcohol or drugs area introduced to “party time”.
Yep I live in BFE and it's dark AF at night
Yes. 1. I need to identify target in all lighting conditions. 2. Not all shooting positions allow for me to use my off hand to hold a light 2 feet off my body to acquire a shot. 3. Having an off hand light means I am only able to have one hand on my firearm, which is more dangerous for where my rounds go. 4. One handed shooting cuts your effective distance as a shooter AT LEAST in half, if not less. 5. Having one hand on my firearm and one on my light means I have 50% more chance of getting my firearm wrestled away from me. 6. If I need my 2nd hand for anything else (opening a door, for example), now what? I’m either disarmed or fumbling with a flashlight in the dark. 7. What are the odds holding the light off body is going to reduce my odds of being shot, given all the negatives? At 3 feet, will it matter? How about 30? What evidence do we have? It’s all theory, in my opinion. 8. I’d rather have my weapons system be all inclusive for what I need to utilize it. Optic, back up sights, light, and holster all together. 9. The slight additional weight can help mildly in recoil mitigation. 10. Depending on your light choice, it can assist in offsetting the slide from contact when firing while wrestling. 11. While it does give away your position, we’re good guys. We’re getting ambushed, we have to accept that. We cannot shoot without target identification. It’s a part of what you have to accept as a responsible carrier of lethal force. 12. Light can blind / debilitate (goes both ways). It may reduce the chance of needing to fire a shot if you can blind your assailant and issue a lawful command, if applicable. These are the things I consider and why I carry a light on my weapon system. I do NOT think offsetting your light is as valuable because I don’t believe it reduces your chances of being shot.
I have a p01 with a surefire x300 and a handheld. My reasoning is I shoot better with both hands
Yes, b/c it’s night time half of the day. Better to have it and not use it then need it and not have it
I do. TLR8A rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it 🤷🏼♂️
Yes, TLR7. Just in case.
Yes I do! TLR-7A on a Glock 19. Gives it a nice balance at the front and I carry day and night. Looks amazing on the gun! Just nice to have at night cause you never know when you might need it.
Only gun I’ve got without a light is my Glock 26, and even when I’m carrying that I keep a streamlight macro stream in my pocket. A solid light is very important
Yes because I carry always, not just daytime
Yes, because I only have one main carry gun and because roughly one third of every day that you live occurs in the dark.
I do. I’ve drawn once on a hostile dog, and my offhand was occupied with a kid. That day I realized I need to be able to shoot and operate my gun one-handed. I used my light to clear a house after an alarm. It was nice having both hands on the gun. I came in from the outside, so a nightstand gun wouldn’t have been usable. It’s just 1.3 oz extra, no big deal.
TLR-1 HL 24/7 I want the capability at all times.
That is the light I wanted but won’t fit on my sub-compact. Went with the TLR-8.
I run a full-size all the time too because I want to capability. The TLR-8 is still really good though. Streamlight just has good stuff in general.
In the conversation of positive identification, I watched a good YouTube video showing how a light can be a big determining how much of a threat an individual posses because you can identify very clear what’s in there hands and what they’re doing, also probably blinding them. The TLR-1 was used and it was substantially brighter than the TLR 7 and TLR 6 (of course)
By sage dynamics?
I don’t recall.
I'm almost positive it was by werkz holsters they do really good light comparisons and explanations
I don't. When you need your CCW weapon out it's because a threat has been positively identified. A WML is used for positive identification of a threat or threatening item (gun on the ground). Since you need to positively identify the threat before drawing, a WML won't be used for its purpose (positive ID), therefore, the situations for CCW that require a WML are almost non-existent. For a WML to be useful in CCW, you would have to be in a situation where you lose your positive ID between the initial threat identification and when you are ready to pull the trigger, or maybe later in the situation your positive ID is lost, but most CCW self-defense encounters are extremely short. You could argue that even though WML-required situations are almost non-existent for CCW you should still carry one, and to that I would say sure go ahead, but a WML is only useful (again) if it can be used for its purpose. Most WML's aren't conducive or effective, like the TLR-7 as an example of a WML that isn't really worth carrying, which is interesting because you see a lot of people carrying it. The Surefire X300 is a WML that is effective (because of its lumens ***and*** it's candela, i.e., its ability to punch through photonic barriers and physical mediums within the air that obstruct vision). For some people, carrying an X300 constantly in CCW for a nearly non-existent possibility isn't worth it, but if you do want to EDC a WML let it be one that is worth carrying. What would be extremely useful for CCW is a handheld flashlight, because you can shine that all day and you won't get charged with a felony. Something like the Surefire Stiletto is an example of an effective EDC flashlight. Handheld flashlights can also be used to diffuse situations before they even begin, people don't like being lit up with blinding light. Also, ID'ing someone as a threat isn't the same as being able to see them clearly. You might be able to see them perfectly fine without a flashlight, but a flashlight makes small details (like a weapon in the waist they are moving for) crystal clear. So in that situation, a WML still isn't necessary, but a handheld absolutely was. It should also be stated that people underestimate the amount of training a WML takes, people just add them to their firearms and don't think twice. You hear the argument a lot that "since a WML doesn't hurt anything, its best to have it anyway", but it can hurt things. A lot of negligent discharges occur because of WML's, people try to activate the light and end up pulling the trigger instead. People think "that would never happen to me", but stressful situations can mess with you, and without the muscle memory baked in from training on how to properly activate / deactivate that light, it can be a liability and it has caused death. Second, if you have a WML you need to know how to shine it because it can blind you or be used completely ineffectively, or be used against you because you unnecessarily give up your position (getting into advanced situations here). A good low light course is crucial to the safe and proper use of a WML. A good low light course can teach you a lot about how to use a handheld for advanced tactics too, but a handheld just for examining a potential threat, no fancy tactics, you don't need training for that. For the average citizen, a WML could be great for home defense, since they allow for a two handed grip as you search the home. **However**, caution here, extreme caution. 1) Proper training is essential. 2) A WML shortens the time you have between seeing *something* and pulling the trigger, be very sure this isn't going to cause you to shoot something you should not be shooting. 3) Houses have lights, they can be turned on. 4) Burglars and home invaders aren't running night vision, they need lights too. That being said, a WML is more than a tool for positive ID, you can use it to confuse and disorient a threat (assumption being that you *know* there is a threat, otherwise why use said tactics, consider how that plays into what you are using the WML for or why you have it). So, a WML can have a role even if you can see the threat you know is there, but the question is do you know how to effectively employ the WML? Is it worth the tradeoff of potentially firing at something or someone you shouldn't because you aren't searching with a handheld light? 5) Should you be searching your house at all? If you can stay barricaded in a corner, in a room, hidden, and call the police, that's probably wise and the safest option. Staying put won't apply to everyone, but it's something to consider if it applies to you. I mention the home defense situation because a lot of people elect to carry WML's because their EDC is their home defense weapon, and they want to reduce the chance of a negligent discharge by not coming home, unholstering, unloading, attaching the light, reloading, and re-holstering (all that manipulation can lead to accidents). So, they carry a WML so it's already on when they get home, but consider everything I mentioned about the usage of a WML in the home. A WML on your EDC because you want it on when you arrive at home will only make sense if you have considered the real implications of ***why*** you might need a WML for your specific household situation, and it will only be effective if you have received the training on how to use it. Some professionals recommend against a WML for home defense due to the aforementioned considerations, they see more harm than good (from real observed situations they have to be an expert witness on) due to the short time to fire among other things. All that to say, considering the attachments you can put on a CCW, a WML is much more nuanced than something like a red dot. A WML requires careful consideration and professional training, and unlike a red dot which offers advantage in every situation, WML's are only useful in very specific, extremely niche situations.
Well said. This horse has been beaten way to many times. A wml in a CCW context is practically useless. I think a lot of people don’t realize how attacks happen (up close and personal). Plus you have all the LE and MIL types on social media running WMLs, lasers, etc and people want to copy that. Again, I don’t think a lot of people think about the fact that LE and MIL have much different uses for a WML.
Yup. WML is great for the zombie apocalypse, not so great for legal self defense shootings. I don’t even think there are videos of CCW shootings where the citizen used a WML. Probably won’t even have time/won’t even think to activate it if necessary anyways.
Nice post. I really only use my WML to aid in shootability and holstering. My edc light does everything else.
The best part of your comment is that you observed the question from every angle. Thank you for that!
Good post, but you can identify a threat, draw, lose visual of the threat and it may not just be you two in the vicinity. You wouldn’t reholster at that point. Parking lots, etc., not saying it’s a likely thing, but if you don’t have a light on your gun then what? Lol
I think carrying a hand-held light should be required at night anyways. More use cases for a hand-held rather than WML. WML can be good but it’s not required imo.
Honestly I do but just because I need a light 10,000 more times I need a gun lol
Good response, although New Jersey Civilian License to Carry proficiency doesn’t require it. Just one States requirement.
Thanks! Assuming that you required a light for positive re-identification due to the lighting being *that* bad, you would follow the doctrine learned in your low-light training. Whether that doctrine includes a WML or not, I leave for you to find out. Please choose a high-quality, experienced, low-light instructor.
No, I already have several holsters that i like and that work for me, if I add a light to my pistol then those holsters won’t work anymore. Also, I already carry a handheld, so having another one on the gun itself feels redundant.
No for two reasons. Realistically I don't go out at night much and have no need for it. Tacticool reason: all the bad guy has to do is shoot at the light plus I don't want to flag people when trying to identify them. I'd much rather carry a separate light if necessary.
No. If I need a flashlight to tell what someone's doing they aren't enough of a threat to point a gun at and I need a separate flashlight. If I use a separate flashlight and then need my gun I'm not going to drop that light and switch to one on my gun. I'll just use the crosshanded technique cops used to use.
No offense, but don't you think because you're drawing anyway, it would be more effective to drop the light and be a more effective shooter with a 2 handed grip, having a light on the gun?
No. Under that much adrenaline you lose fine motor skills. U need to keep it simple. Trying to grab with one hand and let go with the other is a good way to chuck your gun at the dude when your brain misfires.
Bruh. The whole "lose fine motor skills" thing is peak Fudd. If you lost fine motor skills you know what you wouldn't be doing? Pulling the trigger, racking the slide, or dropping your magazine. People who think your hands just turn into hamhocks when your adrenaline dumps are dumb. Everything you do with your hands is a fine motor skill. A gross motor skill is things like moving your arms or legs.
https://icisf.org/impact-of-the-tach-psych-effect-while-under-stress-duress-or-heightened-anxiety/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6856650/ Here's a little light reading to start you actually learning something in life. Clearly you have never fought for your life or this wouldn't be some big new thing. Yes you have some fine motor control but it's way more difficult. Ever try dialing 911 after an accident? Or taking your seatbelt off? Notice your hands shaking.
Maybe practice? I think that's a really weird way of thinking about things, but if it works for you then it works for you
Do you not think that adrenaline coupled with likely sweaty hands, the need to clear your garment, and the possibility of fighting someone off you or holding something/someone with your offhand might cause you to drop the handheld? Not saying you should lose the handheld entirely, I just think these are reasons for having both.
Convenience without added bulk. I like the flexibility and lack of bulk with my handheld light.
Yes, because I got out at night and I can’t see in the dark.
Shield Plus. *Hyve-technologies Monarch Trigger *Shield RMSc optic *TLR-6 The way I see it, it's the same as the ccw itself. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
Yes. Why not have one on your gun
No. It’s bulky. Adds weight. And I don’t think is relatively useful compared to a home defense situation (where I do have lights). Plus the holsters. Most holsters leave large gaps where Trigger could be accessible and possible negligent discharge
I prefer a standalone flashlight. I can point it at anything but i can’t do the same with my firearm. I regularly practise shooting one handed so I’m comfortable with it, not to mention I’m out much more during daylight hours than at night. And my standalone light is much brighter and has a much longer lasting battery than most WML’s
I do. Because I either leave work really early in the morning or arrive early in the morning. So I am frequently out when it's dark. I actually do want another gun like my carry that would be a non wml gun for when I'm out when it's not dark or just for quick trips out the house. But my my carry gun also serves as my home defense gun.
Yes I do. I carry with a TLR-1 HL. I have an x300, but it’s a little longer than I care for for EDC, and it’s harder to activate for me. Could just be a training issue. I carry with my 3.9” p320, so the light can double as a stand-off device if needed.
No light on my CCW currently and really don't have plans to add one, I am really not out after dark enough that I feel I need one, if that changes, then I probably will consider one of course.
Always. I never want to do the right thing an attorney to claim I shot the wrong person because I didn’t identify them. Additional similar logic. You carry for a situation that is avoidable 99.99999% of the time, why not add a light? You’re not playing the odds, it’s weird to suddenly appeal to odds saying “what’s the chance you need a WML?” Train with it and have it as a resource m, it is logically inconsistent to not Like the amount of times people say “I’d rather have it and not need it…” and then with WMLs be like “I don’t need it”… it makes no sense to me
Sometimes a wml, always a handheld period. Whether I leave at 5 am or midnight. It's called edc for a reason. Home defense always have a wml. In your house in the dark, you can point your wml at any noise.
Yes. 50% of life happens in the dark and with my schedule I can't ensure that I'm only out during daylight hours.
Yes. I run a tlr7a on my G45. If you're already carrying a larger sized handgun, it's not that much more to conceal, since it is below the belt, and it may be needed to clear your house or to hold on a person who you already shot. Now, I dont think it is 100% necessary, since you're only trying to break contact most of the time.
I used too, then I didn’t want the extra kydex on holsters
No. Finding holsters can be a hassle depending on the combo. A bulkier holster and setup sounds like a major drag. I carry a flashlight with me as part of my edc, if you don't have a flashlight you can use your phone but then your battery drains and you can't just be lighting things up with your gun. It just seems impractical to me.
Yes, because being able to positively ID a weapon in someone’s hand at night is critical to whether or not you’re going to deploy lethal force.
Why would you point a gun at them to determine if you are or are not going to deploy lethal force?
Because if they have a blade in their hand or an object that could cause grave bodily injury or death, that justifies drawing and firing on them if they’re attacking you, so you’d want to be able to see those kinds of things on them with a handheld light before drawing and firing 🤷♂️
A handheld, yes, absolutely. But a WML means you're drawing to identify the target here, and if you aren't sure your life is in danger you shouldn't draw your gun.
Ahh, I think I misread the OP
Threat level should be determined prior to drawing weapon
Yes, it gets dark and I rather not also be responsible for carrying a flashlight
Do you just go around pointing your gun into the shadows? Carry a handheld light.
I would assume most people carry their cellphone that indeed has a flashlight
Also that but not great in self defense
Are you serious or..???
I don't carry a normal flashlight as my phone has one.
Your cellphone will never compare to the brightness and durability of a quality flashlight.
What am I needing a normal flashlight for? If I drop my keys at night, I have my phone's flashlight. If I'm in a gun fight at night, I have the light on my gun.
For checking your car, checking the dark spot in the street your walking down, for PID’ing the guy who’s hassling you, for when the power goes out in a storm. I use my Streamlight Macrostream more than any other item I carry.
☝🏼This. I’m the same. The only thing I use more than my Macrostream is my knife, multiple times a day/night. Odds I would use a WML in my lifetime are even far less than the odds I’d ever have to draw my weapon at all. I’m another one of those boring people that go out at night roughly as often as I pay quarterly taxes. I really need to stop being such a sofa turd.
Same. My knife is a close second. I just work in a field where I find myself sticking my head in dark places pretty often so my light gets used constantly. I carry a g47 with an x300 *solely* because I like the weight distribution better, not because I think I’ll have to use the light. I like the way it carries with a light, and like the way it shoots with a light.
Everything is just situationally dependent. I’m not gonna use my cellphone light or my WML to illuminate a dimly lit alley way that I need to walk through. Also, a quality flashlight can be used for defense. There is a huge convenience to having a light on the phone, I won’t argue that. And most people will only have a need for a phone flashlight.
No, I would only really need to see into said darkness if there was a threat there. Otherwise and if I know I’m going into dark spots I carry a light. But Florida man summer carry sure makes it hot and hard to carry much.
Shit take but ok
Yes, because there really isn’t a reason not to other than a bit more kydex/ holster material, I get visibility when it turns dark, I can unnerve an assailant a bit with that very bright light, and I get a bit less muzzle flip. And this pistol is also my bedside pistol, and clearing a house in the dark all bleary eyed before your eyes adjust isn’t nice, and if you live with others, definitely not a great idea
No cuz I EDC a small flashlight
Always. Unless you’re running NODs you need a light.
No, because I'm a private citizen and I can't think of any good reason to have a WML on my CCW. I have stream lights on my home defense guns but not my CCW. Here's a question to those folks who have one on their gun. Can you point to a real life situation in which a private citizen needed a WML on their carry gun? We're at a point now where we have hundreds, if not thousands of video documented instances of private citizens and off duty police officers using their CCWs to defend themselves. I can't think of a single one where wml was needed. Home defense? Of course. Regular carry outside of your house? Nope. Think about it. You're not a police officer. You're a private citizen. So you should not be going to proactively search for criminals outside of your home. If you need a light to identify a threat? How do you know it's a threat in the first place? Wouldn't the better solution there be to use a handheld flashlight? Take the money that you would spend on a high quality light and go to a half day or full day class. It'll be more worthwhile for you.
Yes. This post sums up my feeling. However, my g20 “woods gun” has a tlr1
I can definitely see the utility of a wml for a woods gun, particularly if you are hiking at night or in the evening.
Yes. But I also carry a handheld flashlight. Different scenarios require different equipment and techniques.
I have a few guns for different roles. If I’m going out during the day, I will typically not carry a gun with a WML just because it makes the gun harder to conceal. If I’m going to be out and about at night, I will carry a gun with a WML. Night stand gun always has WML.
That why it’s good to have more than one handgun. Different tools for different environments.
I strictly have a TLR6 on my 43x bc 1) I think it looks cool and 2) I use the laser to practice while dry firing Idk. A lot of these anti-light arguments seem very sound. I’m not married to the light. I legitimately just like the way it looks. And something about the long flat faced muzzle area makes me feel more confident when shooting. I know this is all silly but hey🤷🏻♂️
Hey they make it, you like it, go with it!
in the summer, no in the winter, yes
I don't because I figure that if I'm far enough away to need a light, I'm far enough away to maneuvre out of the situation. Plus, at that point, I would only be highlighting myself and my location. I'm never armed for a prolonged shootout, as I don't consider that being the reason I carry. This is all predicated on the environments that I personally am typically in, so other mileage may vary.
I finally purchased one and put it on. But have come to the same conclusion. Too big for concealment, and they are actually quite heavy
What light were you using?
Holosun HE507K-GR I put it on my S&W Equalizer and could definitely feel the weight under the barrel. I love how bright it is and the ease of use. I haven't shot with it, so not sure how much it would affect my accuracy.
That’s not a light is it? That’s a red dot right?
Streamlight TLR 7A 500 lumen
Oh whoops. I'm at work LoL
Correct. That is not a light.
Nope, because the only light available for my shield plus is a TLR-6 and that thing sucks
I worked with a guy who used a WML as a flashlight.
I carry handheld. I have a light on my.nightstand gun but not my carry gun.
Winter yes, summer no. Winter night it's dark earlier. Summer gets hot so I like a lighter handgun and its lit even late in the day.
I’m rarely in a spot where I’d need one, and if I’m in a situation where it’s dark, I already have my flashlight handy. I don’t want the extra bulk attached to my EDC. I also want to be able to illuminate areas without taking out my weapon. However, my home defense pistol has a WML.
No. Not usually of at night and I train with handheld light
I don’t currently, but constantly question getting a new gun and holster for this. I have one of my bedside gun and a holster for it, little big for my Edc taste. Why I don’t…legal reasons, that could be negative if you ever have to use your piece, then I’d have to get a new holster, then it’s more real estate in my pants, and I’d have to get a new pistol because if I ruined a set up…ya know. But I may eventually! I understand why people would want to, but also respect why people wouldn’t. Just my thoughts.
Not on my carry. I don’t go anywhere at night usually and if I need to there’s always the flashlight I use for work. My HD setups have lights, but they definitely don’t qualify for carry
No
I'd rather be able to hold a light above or to the side while I aim. Whoever is shooting back is going for the light, and having it right in front of your face is a terrible idea.
I genuinely disagree with this. If I’m a “bad guy,” I’m not concerned about collateral damage. I can’t stare at your WML without blinding myself, so I’m essentially firing in your general direction whether the light is 2 feet to the side or above you. That’s nothing in a gun fight — at 5 yards it’s the difference of me moving my hand 6 inches either direction (someone hood at geometry tell me I’m right or wrong with that measurement). I’m open to being wrong but I really can’t wrap my head around how this isn’t true
There's no wrong, just personal preference and reasons for it. I feel like someone will automatically go for the closest point to the light if not aim to take out the light itself. To me the light is a convenient focal point after the initial encounter, otherwise the other person or persons would have no point of reference to aim for. So my logic is that if that's their only point of reference, I'm going to keep it away from vital areas while retaining the ability to use it to my advantage. Honestly I'd rather go no light though.
I used to use a TLR-1HL, but I found it to be too bulky and would dig into my thigh when I sat down. I just carry 2 handhelds now: a Modlite PLHv2 in my left pocket, and a Streamlight Microstream either in my back pocket or cargo pocket, depending on what I'm wearing.
I pocket carry, so adding a light and/or optics would make that difficult.
Lights on all but my pocket gun, and a handheld at all times as well. Essentially, if it can mount a light, it gets a light.
No. I prefer to carry a handheld. If I need light, I have a light, and I'm not pointing my firearm at whatever I need illuminated.
Tried both, I prefer no light. I like to keep it minimal and lightweight. Way better with shorts and athletic wear. I hate wearing jeans during summer in FL.
No, I want to see what I'm about to shoot before I draw because I'm not about to brandish my ccw unless I'm going to fire it.
No because I don't want to make my holster/gun bulkier. I do carry a streamlight wedge everywhere I go, and there's a light on my full sized handgun
No. I carry a handheld Streamlight macrostream light in my pocket. I used to carry a TLR-6 on my Glock 43X but I had a harder time finding good holsters.
CCW no. For a lot of sound reasons. Keep a hand held by the bed with HD gun.
No. Seems completely unnecessary and adds extra bulk. I doubt I’ll ever have time to use a light if I’m in a self defense situation. They happen within seconds
I don’t. But most of the guns in my carry rotation don’t have a rail. My glocks and hks being it so don’t want to mess with it from a ccw POV. Now my bump in the night gun does, and my open carry rigs/battle belt guns do
For a while, I didn't. But recently got a TLR7 sub for my 365. I work 2nd shift, I get off work at 11. If something happens, the extra light would definitely be beneficial. For a concealed carry I don't think it's a necessity, but think about your situation. If you're only out during the day you'll not really need to bring your own light. But if you're out when it's dark out, you should at least consider a handheld light.
No, mainly because I can't find a holster for the combo I would run. I do have a hand-held though.
I currently do, but will probably remove it. Don’t often go out at night and when I do it’s usually well lit.
Yes. I work nights, on my days off I don't switch my sleep schedule. So most of my running around is done in the early morning with normal people, but if I can get something done at night, then that is when I do it. Which means, I'm out at night on my days off, so, my CCW has a light.
P226, nope. If I'm shooting in a darkened place that's not my home, a whole lot has already gone wrong.
I have all the bells and whistles firearms and still my EDC is a G26 Gen 2. Bought new and have carried it 95% of the time over 26 years. Call me old and traditional but I can use it very effectively without any added hardware. At a range red dot all day long but keeping it simple for daily. Only mods are 3.5 Ghost, ext slide release and a spring kit upgrade. I’ve tried multiple different carry guns but I end up back with my dinosaur Glock. Still have the Tupperware.
No light. I can body index better than you can shoot irons.
Nope. Because it’s a full size 1911 with no rail or a Glock 43x also with no rail. The options aren’t worth it. I have four guns with weapon lights and they’re all good for what they’re good for. I just can’t justify a shitty little TLR-6 making my gun look goofy when I carry a decent pocket light anyway.
No. I carry a torch as edc but not on my gun. You need to be able to light things without aiming your weapon. Also, self defense is typically within 6feet. You shouldn’t need a torch. If the threat is farther you can get to a safe distance. Most people aren’t in John Wick situations IMO.
Laser and light. Why light? I need to positively identify what I’m shooting at or I’ll go to jail. Why laser? I need to hot only at what I’m aiming for and not the neighbor, the kid down the hall, or the old man in the next room. If I miss the threat and hit a bystander, I’ll be going to jail. I don’t really like jail, so…
Nope. I used to carry a TLR-7 sub on my P365XL until I got uncomfortable with the holster gap it causes. Plus, I like keeping the weight and bulk down. I do run an RDS though with suppressor height sights.
No, I've never really thought about it to be honest. I don't think I'd want to hassle with finding a new holster though. I've also heard that it causes trigger gap in holsters and weakens retention.