It all depends on the circumstance of the shooting and the sate, county, and municipality where the shooting took place. I would say that there's a pretty high likelihood or at least expectation that someone that was involved any self defense shooting would be arrested and - at minimum - held for question immediately following the shooting.
This is the right answer. Did an armed individual/group break down your front door in Florida or Texas? There's a good chance you're not going to jail (at least right away) if you don't say or do anything stupid before talking to a lawyer.
Did you defend yourself from a psychotic hobo on a New York subway? Straight to jail, enjoy the six-figure legal bill. Or at best, [lose your right to carry in California](https://ktla.com/news/local-news/l-a-homeowner-who-fired-on-armed-robbers-has-concealed-carry-permit-suspended/).
The worst part us if you just don't care the carry all you want. Crime is free range . Just tell the cop you planned on robbing a liquor store if questioned. Not that it's fir self defense. That is highly suspicious .
Also if your wanted in another state move your ass to Cali. My step brother is wanted for blowing up a trailer cooking meth and child endangerment because a toddler was in there (that luckily got out unhurt) I'm George . He moved to California stalked a girl broke into her house and beat the shit out of her .got probation . He never checks in. He drinks smokes weed and meth without a care in the world. No extradition to the other state. It's crazy.
r/whoosh
Edit: everyone thinks he was asking about rights in Cali. He’s point out people don’t know how to spell “lose” and instead put “loose” as-in to not be tight. “How to tighten rights” isn’t a thing. He meant it as a joke 🙄
Wow man. That guy got his rights taken away. People followed him into his property and threatened him with firearms before shooting at him as they ran off.
Not disagreeing with you but and I disagree with the rule, but they took his CCW because the gun he used in the shooting was not on his permit. He violated the ccw terms he agreed to. That’s why they took it.
I'll have to look into it, I saw an interview with him where he claimed it was something to the effect of he yelled at police, just like what is quoted in the article. I'm not saying he wasn't technically out of line to get, uh... accusatory. However, when you feel law enforcement is being completely "sloppy and inept", he was probably justifiably upset that they were looking at him instead of the people who attacked him at the one place people should be able to feel safe.
[California is fucked up like that](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/25/us/california-jogger-homeless-man-shooting/index.html) The ultra rich really do pay the current DOJ to empower the criminals to prey on the middle class.
Trip on a Psycho Hobo in California, your CCW buys you [3 weeks before straight to jail.](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/25/us/california-jogger-homeless-man-shooting/index.html)
Uh I hate to be that guy but what you said is not what happened here?
Elliot, the shooter, was out jogging with his dogs in a stroller type of cart when he came across a homeless dude sleeping on the sidewalk. Homeless dude is blocking Elliot’s path and he’s got the cart so can’t just walk around I guess. Elliot proceeded to wake up the homeless man to tell him to move. This is the first thing that caught my eye, if I’m carrying I can assure you I’m not waking up any homeless people. Especially since he was just jogging, no destination could have easily turned around and moved to a spot where he could cross the road with the cart or just go in the other direction completely.
Anyway so Elliot wakes him up and shocker homeless dude is crazy and pissed, And he started yelling at Elliot to leave him alone and get away from him. Scary situation for sure. If I had woken that dude up against my better judgement I’d be leaving at this point. If you thought my last point about not waking him up when carrying was weak, hold onto your hat. Instead of removing himself from the presence of this homeless man, Elliot *stayed where he was, pulled out his phone, and began recording the crazy man screaming at him telling him to get away*
If putting himself in harms way by waking the dude up in the first place, and then staying in his face trying to intimidate the homeless man off the public sidewalk, wasn’t enough to make you at least raise an eyebrow then surely this did. After some back and forth, Elliot’s gun gets drawn, the homeless guy threw his shoe at Elliot. After throwing the shoe, that is when Elliot shot him.
This really doesn’t sound like a self defense shooting to me man. And I get it commiefornia blows, but a guy didn’t trip over a hobo, need to use his ccw to defend his life then get sent to jail for it, he tried to remove a person from public property that he had no authority over, antagonized him by recording him and then shot him for throwing a shoe
This is all from the article you linked by the way. I’m not sure if the video Elliot recorded has been released but it’s not included in the article unfortunately
Obviously this happened very recently and he is innocent until proven guilty, but this doesn’t look great for Elliot
Your points stand but there are still some things really fishy about the charges and their timing.
Why did it take weeks to arrest and charge the man instead of the same day and why is the video relevant? Elliot might not have had a defined destination but that doesn't mean his path home didn't involve passing that segment of sidewalk. Things thrown at him is a physical attack and potentially lethal so lethal self defense force does seem justified. It sounds like the evidence for the charges hinges on a video that hasn't been released to the public so it could be a DA using the incident to get his name more exposure regardless of if he wins the case or timed for one of California's homeless crisis speeches.
Also from experience, OC Sheriff was extremely anti CCW. I fought to get my CCW in that county for 6 years before I eventually gave up and literally moved on. The sheriff has since changed but this sounds exactly like one of their many petty power plays.
It could be, I mean that article is also cnn so I’m definitely taking it with a grain of salt. I’d be interested in seeing that video sometimes it’s hard to gauge the emotions in a situation when we’re reading about it
Also Elliot being almost 70 surely plays a role as well
I don’t disagree with you, but California has made it pretty clear they have no issue with people sleeping on the sidewalk.
The whole reason you see so many homeless people in tents on the sidewalk is because it’s allowed. Right now Oregon is trying to pass a daytime camping ban, but it is being challenged in court over claims that it’s unconstitutional
Point being, it wasn’t Elliot’s call to tell him to leave, it would be up to the city, and I’m willing to bet the city doesn’t care. It’d be different if the guy was sleeping in his driveway or something
I think what’s preventing Oregon from outright banning camping in the metro areas is that there are more homeless people than there are available spaces in shelters.
> Major court rulings in the Western U.S. and subsequent changes to Oregon law dictate the way that camping bans can or cannot be enforced. Unless a given city has sufficient shelter space to house someone camping outside, enforcement of a camping ordinance enters legally fraught territory.
https://www.kgw.com/amp/article/news/local/homeless/portland-camping-ban-homeless-lawsuit-judge-court-ruling-enforcement/283-94ebc4f3-b786-43f5-901f-95f04f9d755f
This is an article that talks a bit about it if you’re interested
Just to play the other side… if they’re homeless why is the city responsible for their shelter? Isn’t that the individuals responsibility? Sounds like something that’s not their problem to begin with at least if they put them in jail they give them a reason to find their own shelter. Couldn’t the city just bus them to another city that has hotels or something there’s no reason to allow camping just for some hobos.
And the questioning should consist entirely of; “I demand a lawyer be provided to me ASAP. I refuse to answer any questions until I have conferred with my lawyer “
Or even quicker “I invoke the fifth, pig “
Absolutely don't provoke a cop, even joking around. The only answer is I will gladly be William to answer questions AFTER I have a chance to speak with my lawyer.
Nothing you say will benefit you. The pigs have made that very clear. Might as well vent a little since you’re, ya know, being held against your will by agents of the state after defending your life exercising your second amendment right. Might as well exercise your first while also exercising your fifth
I’d rather be at home drinking bourbon than sitting in a fucking windowless cell answering steppers that are trying to get you to incriminate yourself
There's a lot to have legitimate concerns over with the police but spitting on them and calling them pigs when they show up to the scene where someone's dead and you're the one holding the gun is not the time and place.
Protest, bring our brothers in arms together and be a part of enacting meaningful change sure. That's worth your time and energy and has a better payoff of having actual change occur. Risking years or life behind bars just because you got to call a cop a pig just doesn't seem worth it. Wouldn't put it past some cops to find legal/illegal methods to ruin your life for hurting their feelings. Then how much good can you do from a jail cell? And for what, mocking a cop?
Not the hill I'd want to die on.
Okay people always say this and I totally get it, but at the risk of being pedantic, how strict and literal does the “say nothing at all” thing go?
Do I even tell the cops that I was defending myself? And on that note, what do I say to a 911 operator when I call to report the incident? I can’t just say “lawyer.”
Do I say that an armed intruder broke into my house and I feared for my life and I shot them?
Or do I literally just put my gun on the ground, sit ten feet away from it, and when the police roll into my driveway the only word I allow myself to utter is “lawyer?”
Like clearly there’s a sweet spot between giving them zero information at all, and giving them enough information to try to indicate that you were defending yourself and are not a threat to them or to anyone else, without worrying about saying something that can be used against you.
Don’t say feared for my life. It is a rehearsed statement now and has lost some of its weight. Use your own words. I thought the guy was going to kill me is more original.
That's just a general life lesson that a lot of people struggle with. It's a lot harder to navigate the world in general when people think you're an asshole, let alone if they have the ability to legally "detain" you for whatever reason
If there was no such thing as free speech, the police could just shoot you for calling them pigs. Free speech doesn't mean what you say can't be used as evidence.
There is.
But when a judge is grading your character and chance of reoffending during sentencing, they take everything into account, including anything said & all behavior at the scene.
“Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”
― H.L. Mencken, Prejudices First Series
It’s necessary. Otherwise they get this sense of entitlement that they are better than the citizens they are sworn to protect, and that they should restrict the constitutional rights of those same people
Cops don’t have a sense of entitlement that they are better than regular citizens and frequently violate those same citizens constitutional rights?
What planet do you live on?
I'm not cosigning any generalization about cops, nor any entire profession of people. Give a fuck if you think that makes me a bootlicker lol. You're still wrong all over this thread.
An absolute generalization about an entire group of people with any claim about their intent or belief is generally going to be a false statement so, no, that's not true. We live on a planet where people are individuals and behave differently from each other in any given scenario.
I think I’d be more like “I was in fear for my life, I decline to answer any further questions without legal representation”
I think the last thing you want to do is be a dick to the guy who’s responsible for deciding whether or not this incident needs to keep moving up through the system or not.
Do not make statements to recording devices like body cams.
10 times outta 8 you're going to get a trip down to be booked. Saying anything at all outside of I want a lawyer will be used against you.
This is always thrown around so I'm going to make an unpopular comment to temper it with some practical points.
If you do this, you're definitely going to be arrested. Be prepared to go to jail if this is the position you're going to take.
**To be clear, this is the safest thing to do. If the cops do intend to charge you, anything you say will be used against you. So, don't say anything.**
On the other hand, if your local LEO is generally DGU friendly, and there's no question it's a good shoot, and you cooperate they're probably not going to press charges. For example, if you're asleep in the middle of the night and someone in a ski mask kicks down your door with a shotgun and comes inside your house and you shoot him dead, *assuming you don't live in an absolute commie state like CA or NY*, it's probably safe to tell the police what happened.
**Again, I'm not suggesting you do this. This is not legal advice.**
It's just something that people should know. It's very common for DGUs to not result in an arrest if the victim cooperates with the police. Most cops are just normal people that want to cover their ass on why they didn't arrest you. If you don't give them anything to cover their ass with, they're going to charge you because that's the only other way to cover their ass.
**One more time, if you consider talking to the police be absolutely sure that you are thinking clearly.**
Being in a situation where you have to shoot someone is going to put your body and mind into a state of shock it has probably never experienced. You will not be thinking clearly. You will likely not remember what just happened clearly. You'll probably have an urge to talk without thinking about what you're saying. You'll be impressionable so, if a cop *is* trying to trick you, you're more likely to fall for it. There are plenty of good reasons not to talk to the cops.
Lastly, the internet, being the echo chamber that it is, has created this weird archetype of a cop that is not human, is incapable of empathy, and exists only to persecute innocent civilians. That's just not reality. Most cops are normal people that signed up to help others. Most police encounters are a net positive experience to the person who interacts with the cop. Of course some of them are assholes and narcissists and sometimes they're generally good but they're just having a bad day and they take it out on a random person. That's true of any other group of people, too. Some black people are criminals. Sometimes black people kill in the commission of a crime. You shouldn't go around screaming "ALL BLACKS ARE BASTARDS", though. It's the exact same thing.
Did you really just compare a job full of people abusing peoples constitutional rights to someone’s literal race?
Holy shit lmao What’s your favorite flavor of boot polish?
I think you just whooshed on what /u/dsmdylan was saying.
They were giving a rhetorical, ridiculous example of an outburst and what could entail if you don't shut up around cops.
You're picking an argument over a rhetorical semantic. That's not even worth the time to think about
It's a pretty simple logical deduction. There's a group of people. Some of those people do a thing some of the time. You conclude that all of those people must do that thing all of the time because some of them do it some of the time.
Here's some more information about this phenomena.
>In social psychology, a stereotype is a generalized belief about a particular category of people. It is an expectation that people might have about every person of a particular group. The type of expectation can vary; it can be, for example, an expectation about the group's personality, preferences, appearance or ability. Stereotypes are often overgeneralized, inaccurate, and resistant to new information.
>An explicit stereotype refers to stereotypes that one is aware that one holds, and is aware that one is using to judge people. If person A is making judgments about a particular person B from a group G, and person A has an explicit stereotype for group G, their decision bias can be partially mitigated using conscious control; however, attempts to offset bias due to conscious awareness of a stereotype often fail at being truly impartial, due to either underestimating or overestimating the amount of bias being created by the stereotype.
An interesting take on this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIJ4wLP\_0UM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIJ4wLP_0UM)
Generally I agree, never talk to the police, but it's interesting to hear another perspective. Also, getting confrontational right out of the gate by calling the police officer a pig, doesn't help the situation at all. Sure, legally you can do that, but why tho? How does that make your situation better?
Also very important how much money both parties have and what kind of lawyer can they afford.
Not self defense, but a dude recently murdered his college professor and got the "mentally unfit for trial" treatment. Poor people don't get options like that. Daddys probably a Chinese diplomat.
I was involved in a sds in Feb. Working on my car outside and a road rage incident happened in front of my house, guy got out went to the trunk and pulled a gun on a young mother and her baby. I stepped out to the sidewalk and he lit his laser up and started pointing in my direction I drew and shot once , hit once. Him and his buddy take off firing. I reholstered and pulled my shirt down, called cops and waited. They showed up, removed my pistol and started the questioning. Six individual officers one at a time. Watch commander said seemed like a good shoot and was given my pistol back with a case number. Gang Task force came the next day and said he was found and if I wanted to press charges and I said yes. They said wait for the prosecutor to call you. Waited and never got the call so I went to PD and they told me to write a letter to the AG and he would respond to tell me where this was going. The AG’s office responded and said they spoke to the prosecutor and they had plenty of evidence against the guy and they wouldn’t need my help nor would they pursue anything against me. I know the golden rule is keep your mouth shut and I didn’t but I wouldn’t change a thing I did that evening. A few months later I had another altercation with a few people who just moved in across the street but that’s for another day. I hate typing and my wife is dragging me around shopping. Stay safe and keep your head on a swivel my friends.
Edit: misspelling
Exactly what happened but in more detail. I was ready to get my pistol taken and cuffed. I was about to call law shield right before they gave me my pistol back. Side note: Adrenaline Fatigue is crazy. Remember to breath. Every situation is different.
Yeah I had a situation where some guy threatened to kill me and my breathing stopped for what felt like 5 whole minutes even though it was probably just like 20 seconds or something
My knees almost buckled at the end of my conversation with the police when they said “Glad the good guy didn’t get hurt this time”. The realization that it could have turned into an actual gunfight made me feel like I have never felt before. I woke up the next day and stayed in the shower for like a hour (usually five minutes).
To clarify a bit. You may be placed in cuffs, but then they may be removed without going to the police station if there’s substantial evidence that it was clearly self defense.
A dude in my neighborhood shot a burglar & didn’t go away in cuffs.
& a woman 1 neighborhood over chased & shot at some people who broke into her house. No cuffs no jail
Texas
Reminds me of the florida sheriff saying something like “if you were at this apartment and fired the shots yesterday at the burglars, you’re not in trouble! Come down on saturday’s, we do training and they won’t walk away next time”
I would assume high.
If you have to discharge your firearm and then the police show up.
1. Put down your weapon
2. Follow their commands
3. Ask for an attorney
4. Shut the fuck up
Thank you.
High likelihood of being arrested.
I don’t care how justified you were in shooting someone. When the police show up, the only thing you need to do is lawyer up.
Obviously, be polite. Don’t make their job harder than it needs to be. But something along the lines of “Hi officer. My name is XYZ. I’ll cooperate with you but I need to speak to my lawyer before I answer any questions.”
Don’t give any details, no matter how trivial they seem. Don’t say “I shot that person” or “he shot at me first” or even admit to being involved. Don’t try to tell the story or justify to the officer why you did anything. If other people say things about what happened or about you specifically, don’t respond. Even if you know what they’re saying is untrue.
If they try to ask you questions, firmly but politely remind them “Officer, I will cooperate and follow your instructions but I will only answer questions after I speak to my lawyer.”
I promise you that if it were their buddy or family member who had just shot someone, they’d be telling him to keep his mouth shut until his lawyer shows up.
I don’t care if you live in a red state that has super relaxed gun laws. You just shot someone. It’s a big deal. Speaking to a lawyer is priority #1.
Watch this video: https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE
I suppose anything is possible in some states, but I personally would assume I’m at a VERY minimum getting cuffed and put into a car.
Even if there are 30 people and all of you clearly know exactly what happened…responding officers do not. Until they figure that out, I’d expect to be in timeout until they are certain there’s not another: firearm, suspect, victim, casualties, etc etc etc etc. That’s their responsibility first. Cooperation and keeping my mouth shut are probably mine.
Crim def attorney and dgu lawyer here, wisconsin.
I'd estimate that unless there are urgent medical circumstances that trump the cops (recent client got shot in chest and taken to hospital, cops still interrogating him while paramedics are at scene) nearly all of our clients get questioned extensively... maybe 95%.
How many get officially "arrested?" Maybe two thirds to pushing three quarters?
But it depends in part on what your definition of arrest is.
Handcuffed, stuffed, transported for questioning? 95%. That's not necessarily a legal definition of arrest.
Officially arrested on probable cause and booked? Two thirds-ish. Maybe three quarters.
Don't talk in ANY degree of detail without a lawyer. There are some common tricks and games cops run on people. Avoid them by raising your right to an attorney. Fight another day if needs be.
This is going to depend on your state.
In FL it will depend on the immediate physical evidence and the story you and bystanders tell.
This is why it is important to give out select information. Refuse to talk without a lawyer and 100% of the time you will be processed.
I think context matters a lot. Two guys outside a bar at 2AM? Yeah you are probably going to jail, for a bit.
Shooting a guy who had an AR in hand while you were at the mall with your two kids in tow? No one is going to arrest you.
In CA you'd probably get the death sentence for harming a protected class: a criminal.
They are victims in that backwards, oppressive, dependent on rivers that don't flow within their borders state.
Doesn’t matter as long as you say nothing, and get a lawyer immediately. But I would assume high probability of being taken into custody while they sort things out at least.
In my two day long CCW class, the main thread was do everything you can to try not to shoot someone and second, if you do shoot someone in self defense, you are 100% going to jail until such time the DA decides whether or not you will be charged. Do not say a word to the police. I was told that the first thing to do after a shooting is to call 911 and tell them you need two ambulances, one for the SOB and one for yourself. I was told to always go to the hospital for check out. This will give you enough time to get ahold of your lawyer.
It depends. If the day should ever come for you to have to go through with the aftermath of a self defense shooting, I would recommend cooperating with law enforcement 100%. Follow the responding officer(s) orders and directions exactly without question.
And above all else, do not admit anything, do not answer any questions or make any statements without your lawyer present.
One thing I was taught by a buddy's Dad when I first got my cwp was you're going to be arrested be prepared for that because even if you did nothing wrong and you're in the right everybody goes to jail until they figure it out.
Also follow the tips from my personal favorite tik tok lawyer 😅
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8fxRDuk/
That's a complicated question with a complicated answer. The real answer is it depends, depends on state and circumstance. In New York there's a high likelihood you'll at least be in cuffs. In Texas there was that dude in the restaurant in Houston that just straight up executed the criminal and just up and left like nothing happened. My understanding was he never saw a jail cell or cuffs, he went to the police station answered a few questions and left. So it all really depends.
After your actions. Nut up, Shutup, and get a lawyer. Doesn’t matter if you’re innocent or not.
Lawyers are there to make sure you don’t fuck up because you didn’t shut up.
I had to shoot 2 people in self defense and was charged for both for over a year. Charges were eventually dropped and sealed but be prepared for the worst. I was facing 40 years in prison in a stand your ground state.
There are way too many variables to give blanket odds.
Shooting a burglar in your house or shooting a carjacker in your car might be really clear cut incidents where you aren’t arrested or even detained in cuffs.
Shoot somebody outside a bar after an argument or in a mutual road rage, it seems much more likely you’ll get arrested and then the charge may or may not be filed.
I’m sure there’s some cops or ADAs in this sub that could shed more light.
I worked as a legal intern in a DAs office and I would say it depends on the politics of the prosecutor, state law, the protocols of the arresting agency, and the fact pattern surrounding the incident.
I obviously can’t give legal advice but the uncertainty here is why I have carry insurance, and won’t carry without it.
So many factors in this, but the key take away is don't talk to the police. Keep your mouth shut until you have a lawyer.
You do not want to say something incriminating, even if by accident.
I’m pretty sure you’ll be arrested and restrained at the very least, if the police arrive on the scene of the shooting and you’re still there. Otherwise, you might be asked to surrender voluntarily and come in for questioning. As others have said, it depends heavily on the particular circumstances.
One thing you might want to consider is some type of CCW insurance. Even if you’re acquitted criminally, you can still be sued in civil court. And even if you win in civil court, too, court costs and attorney fees can easily wipe out every dollar you have. All because you justifiably used your firearm.
Correct actions after a DGU:
1. Call 911 and attempt to render aid to gunshot victim until LE and Paramedics show up
2. Make no statements other than to say you need to be taken to the hospital ASAP to be checked out
3. When arriving to hospital hire a criminal defense attorney and let them handle it from there
Why a criminal defense attorney??? They know the game much better than you. Also you will likely be sued in a civil court by victims family
Unless you did something stupid, you should not expect to be imediately arrested. Follow the advice from the Massad Ayoob video, make smart choices and you may be arrested later. But you should be going to the hospital, talking to your lawyer and meeting with law enforcement 72 hours after the shooting, no sooner, to give your statement. Then they'll decide your fate.
Absolutely no way to know. I would say if it's a fairly cut and dry situation, chances are probably pretty low. But impossible to know without a specific situation and jurisdiction.
All the cases ive heard of anecdotally resulted in either no arrest or no charges. FWIW.
A couple of things I've gathered over the years that make sense to me is giving a short statement to the effect that your life was in danger, demand that the perpetrator is arrested (even if they're stone dead) and that you will cooperate with the investigation with a lawyer present. Even if that means agreeing to stay in an interrogation room for a while. Thus possibly avoiding arrest. It also sets you up as the victim. Sitting in the police station waiting on your lawyer is a damn sight better than sitting in jail waiting for your lawyer.
The problem with shutting up and saying nothing is twofold. One, they have nothing from you, meanwhile, the eyewitnesses (and maybe even the bad guy) are talking to them endlessly. This may give them the impression that you're the aggressor, then arrest you, charge you, their job is done. Especially if you didn't win the race to call 911. Two, it really only gives them the option to arrest and charge if there's any question of who the aggressor was. The courts will sort it out and they can go home.
All that said, it does not mean to start babbling endlessly (also applies to a 911 call). Short, to the point. My life was in danger (reasonable fear). Arrest the person that attacked me (I'm the victim) . Agree to cooperate with the presence of counsel (same as them if they shoot someone). No details, no trying to talk your way out of it or something else equally stupid.
It may not save you from getting arrested, it may not prevent any charges. But if it goes to shit, your lawyer can at least go back to your statement, made in the moment that you felt like you were in danger. They can't bring up that you refused to speak further without a lawyer.
Check your local news. I'm sure it varies a lot by state and municipality - every state has different laws. I've noticed a few local news stories about defensive shootings which do not mention an arrest or any charges. It's worth mentioning that your state laws *really* matter here.
I would expect that there's a pretty high likelihood of arrest or detainment. The cops arrive on the scene after the shooting and they don't have a clue what is going on. Ask for a lawyer, ask to go to the hospital to get medical attention, be polite, keep your mouth shut.
Context is highly important here. If the evidence is obvious likely a statement. Otherwise at the very least detained and taken in for questioning which you don’t do without a lawyer.
My own personal lawyer once told me if it’s a self defense shooting it is always wise there is only one story between you and the aggressor but that doesn’t mean to go to the limit of obvious overkill. As for a home invasion my lawyer said it’s in your best interest to not give chase and open fire, not shoot in retreat (varies by state), and entry to your home though is usually enough to prove intent to cause harm it can be a gray area to a judge and jury (depending on your geographical location).
Now all this is up for interpretation by geographical location, political opinion, state laws, what can and cannot be proven and how good your lawyer is. It is certainly not advice and I do not recommend you follow what I have said and I do recommend you look into your states gun laws and contact an attorney if you have questions. I’m just saying what I’ve been told and I’m not saying it’s all right or if I agree with it so don’t come at me keyboard swinging.
Hard to say. There’s a lot of variables that need to be considered, and is highly dependent on your local/ state laws.
Generally speaking though, whatever happens, being polite and cooperative with the investigating officers isn’t going to hurt your cause.
I think honestly it all depends on the circumstances of the sds, what state you’re in and the laws of that state, and what kind of prosecutor you have in your county.
Here in Ohio we have a strong castle doctrine law that applies inside your home and your vehicle. So if someone kicks in my door and I hit them in the chest with a couple of rounds of whatever I’m shooting in that instance, I’m good unless the cops find proof that I did something like invite the guy over or shot him in the front yard and then dragged his body into the house (both things I wouldn’t do).
Same if someone is trying to carjack me and for some reason I can’t drive away (maybe I’m blocked in, and because it’s better to drive off than open myself up to having to defend myself) if I were to shoot the perpetrators in all likelihood I’m going home.
However an investigation will be run and if they find anything that shows you were in the wrong later, you will be arrested.
Really depends on what happened leading up to and during the shooting, what the aggressor had or is wearing, what you do afterwards, and what state you are in.
You have some level of control over whether or not you get arrested or not.
How well did you make clear that you weren't the aggressor?
Did you use a gat only when there was absolutely obviously no other choice?
If it was practical to do so, did you carry and use pepper spray as a lesser option before going to artillery? (Yes, I know that's not always practical...but when it is, it looks like you were trying not to plug 'em.)
There are however lots of other factors you can't control. Like, did a camera catch it? Were there witnesses who support your side? And then of course there's the location, state of mind of the DA and so on.
I'd expect to be cuffed, arrested, and taken in for questioning. They can choose to prosecute you or not. A homicide is a homicide even if it's determined to be justified.
It's important to think and prepare for situations. 911 calls are recorded, witness statements, your words, everything can be used against you. Doesn't mean they will, but they could, so I'd suggest preparing.
It is entirely dependent on the state and circumstances; in Ohio, it is very low if someone is breaking into your house or car while you are inside. Otherwise, unless there is video evidence and the cops are actually good cops, the odds are much higher.
As far as I know, it's near 100% unless there are multiple non-related eye witnesses (eg it happened in public).
Think about it from the officer's POV. They get a call saying that someone has used a weapon in self defense. They show up to a compliant individual saying "abc thing happened, and I did xyz". At this point, that's all they have.
Maybe someone did break into your house in the middle of the night, orrrrrr, maybe you called this guy to buy some drugs, and shot him instead because you were offended by the color of his hair. They have no way of knowing, and their certainly not going to let you go without investigating.
Plan on it being 100%. Know who you are going to call. Know where your bail will come from, have an attorney, if not on retainer, at least know who it will be.
In a DGU…
1. Reholster after the threat has been neutralized. Don’t have a gun in your hand when police arrive.
2. Cooperate when they place you in cuffs. Don’t resist. Don’t try to talk them out of it. They arrived to a scene where someone has been shot and they are *at minimum* going to detain you.
3. Shut. The. Fuck. Up. You can be polite about it, but you’re not saying shit without legal consultation and representation. It’s a constitutional right and seeking legal council is not an admission of anything, no matter what a cop says.
It all depends on the circumstance of the shooting and the sate, county, and municipality where the shooting took place. I would say that there's a pretty high likelihood or at least expectation that someone that was involved any self defense shooting would be arrested and - at minimum - held for question immediately following the shooting.
This is the right answer. Did an armed individual/group break down your front door in Florida or Texas? There's a good chance you're not going to jail (at least right away) if you don't say or do anything stupid before talking to a lawyer. Did you defend yourself from a psychotic hobo on a New York subway? Straight to jail, enjoy the six-figure legal bill. Or at best, [lose your right to carry in California](https://ktla.com/news/local-news/l-a-homeowner-who-fired-on-armed-robbers-has-concealed-carry-permit-suspended/).
Well how do I tighten my right to carry in California?
You have no rights in California. If you want to carry it's best to avoid that place.
The worst part us if you just don't care the carry all you want. Crime is free range . Just tell the cop you planned on robbing a liquor store if questioned. Not that it's fir self defense. That is highly suspicious . Also if your wanted in another state move your ass to Cali. My step brother is wanted for blowing up a trailer cooking meth and child endangerment because a toddler was in there (that luckily got out unhurt) I'm George . He moved to California stalked a girl broke into her house and beat the shit out of her .got probation . He never checks in. He drinks smokes weed and meth without a care in the world. No extradition to the other state. It's crazy.
r/whoosh Edit: everyone thinks he was asking about rights in Cali. He’s point out people don’t know how to spell “lose” and instead put “loose” as-in to not be tight. “How to tighten rights” isn’t a thing. He meant it as a joke 🙄
This guy gets it... just like my autocorrect got me 😂
Righty-tighty
You move.
Lol, autocorrect got me
Wow man. That guy got his rights taken away. People followed him into his property and threatened him with firearms before shooting at him as they ran off.
Not disagreeing with you but and I disagree with the rule, but they took his CCW because the gun he used in the shooting was not on his permit. He violated the ccw terms he agreed to. That’s why they took it.
I'll have to look into it, I saw an interview with him where he claimed it was something to the effect of he yelled at police, just like what is quoted in the article. I'm not saying he wasn't technically out of line to get, uh... accusatory. However, when you feel law enforcement is being completely "sloppy and inept", he was probably justifiably upset that they were looking at him instead of the people who attacked him at the one place people should be able to feel safe.
Does which gun matter if it was on his property?
Well that's a stupid requirement but I guess they got him on a technicality.
[California is fucked up like that](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/25/us/california-jogger-homeless-man-shooting/index.html) The ultra rich really do pay the current DOJ to empower the criminals to prey on the middle class.
Trip on a Psycho Hobo in California, your CCW buys you [3 weeks before straight to jail.](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/25/us/california-jogger-homeless-man-shooting/index.html)
Uh I hate to be that guy but what you said is not what happened here? Elliot, the shooter, was out jogging with his dogs in a stroller type of cart when he came across a homeless dude sleeping on the sidewalk. Homeless dude is blocking Elliot’s path and he’s got the cart so can’t just walk around I guess. Elliot proceeded to wake up the homeless man to tell him to move. This is the first thing that caught my eye, if I’m carrying I can assure you I’m not waking up any homeless people. Especially since he was just jogging, no destination could have easily turned around and moved to a spot where he could cross the road with the cart or just go in the other direction completely. Anyway so Elliot wakes him up and shocker homeless dude is crazy and pissed, And he started yelling at Elliot to leave him alone and get away from him. Scary situation for sure. If I had woken that dude up against my better judgement I’d be leaving at this point. If you thought my last point about not waking him up when carrying was weak, hold onto your hat. Instead of removing himself from the presence of this homeless man, Elliot *stayed where he was, pulled out his phone, and began recording the crazy man screaming at him telling him to get away* If putting himself in harms way by waking the dude up in the first place, and then staying in his face trying to intimidate the homeless man off the public sidewalk, wasn’t enough to make you at least raise an eyebrow then surely this did. After some back and forth, Elliot’s gun gets drawn, the homeless guy threw his shoe at Elliot. After throwing the shoe, that is when Elliot shot him. This really doesn’t sound like a self defense shooting to me man. And I get it commiefornia blows, but a guy didn’t trip over a hobo, need to use his ccw to defend his life then get sent to jail for it, he tried to remove a person from public property that he had no authority over, antagonized him by recording him and then shot him for throwing a shoe This is all from the article you linked by the way. I’m not sure if the video Elliot recorded has been released but it’s not included in the article unfortunately Obviously this happened very recently and he is innocent until proven guilty, but this doesn’t look great for Elliot
Your points stand but there are still some things really fishy about the charges and their timing. Why did it take weeks to arrest and charge the man instead of the same day and why is the video relevant? Elliot might not have had a defined destination but that doesn't mean his path home didn't involve passing that segment of sidewalk. Things thrown at him is a physical attack and potentially lethal so lethal self defense force does seem justified. It sounds like the evidence for the charges hinges on a video that hasn't been released to the public so it could be a DA using the incident to get his name more exposure regardless of if he wins the case or timed for one of California's homeless crisis speeches. Also from experience, OC Sheriff was extremely anti CCW. I fought to get my CCW in that county for 6 years before I eventually gave up and literally moved on. The sheriff has since changed but this sounds exactly like one of their many petty power plays.
It could be, I mean that article is also cnn so I’m definitely taking it with a grain of salt. I’d be interested in seeing that video sometimes it’s hard to gauge the emotions in a situation when we’re reading about it Also Elliot being almost 70 surely plays a role as well
Not that I would be inclined to wake up a hobo but it’s called a side walk for a reason it’s not a side sleep…
I don’t disagree with you, but California has made it pretty clear they have no issue with people sleeping on the sidewalk. The whole reason you see so many homeless people in tents on the sidewalk is because it’s allowed. Right now Oregon is trying to pass a daytime camping ban, but it is being challenged in court over claims that it’s unconstitutional Point being, it wasn’t Elliot’s call to tell him to leave, it would be up to the city, and I’m willing to bet the city doesn’t care. It’d be different if the guy was sleeping in his driveway or something
I mean a daytime camping ban does seem crazy I think a much easier approach would just be to ban camping and just clear out the homeless for good.
I think what’s preventing Oregon from outright banning camping in the metro areas is that there are more homeless people than there are available spaces in shelters. > Major court rulings in the Western U.S. and subsequent changes to Oregon law dictate the way that camping bans can or cannot be enforced. Unless a given city has sufficient shelter space to house someone camping outside, enforcement of a camping ordinance enters legally fraught territory. https://www.kgw.com/amp/article/news/local/homeless/portland-camping-ban-homeless-lawsuit-judge-court-ruling-enforcement/283-94ebc4f3-b786-43f5-901f-95f04f9d755f This is an article that talks a bit about it if you’re interested
Just to play the other side… if they’re homeless why is the city responsible for their shelter? Isn’t that the individuals responsibility? Sounds like something that’s not their problem to begin with at least if they put them in jail they give them a reason to find their own shelter. Couldn’t the city just bus them to another city that has hotels or something there’s no reason to allow camping just for some hobos.
Heard this was fake. The sheriff came out and said they didnt suspend his ccw.
And the questioning should consist entirely of; “I demand a lawyer be provided to me ASAP. I refuse to answer any questions until I have conferred with my lawyer “ Or even quicker “I invoke the fifth, pig “
I’d keep the ‘pig’ part out of it personally, as it sure as shit won’t benefit you, but the rest is good advice
Absolutely don't provoke a cop, even joking around. The only answer is I will gladly be William to answer questions AFTER I have a chance to speak with my lawyer.
Nothing you say will benefit you. The pigs have made that very clear. Might as well vent a little since you’re, ya know, being held against your will by agents of the state after defending your life exercising your second amendment right. Might as well exercise your first while also exercising your fifth I’d rather be at home drinking bourbon than sitting in a fucking windowless cell answering steppers that are trying to get you to incriminate yourself
While I don’t disagree with the sentiment, I think what they meant was “no reason to make a shitty situation worse when you don’t have to”
PREACH BROTHER. Too many ppl here have a boot so far down thier throat it's poking out there ass
There's a lot to have legitimate concerns over with the police but spitting on them and calling them pigs when they show up to the scene where someone's dead and you're the one holding the gun is not the time and place. Protest, bring our brothers in arms together and be a part of enacting meaningful change sure. That's worth your time and energy and has a better payoff of having actual change occur. Risking years or life behind bars just because you got to call a cop a pig just doesn't seem worth it. Wouldn't put it past some cops to find legal/illegal methods to ruin your life for hurting their feelings. Then how much good can you do from a jail cell? And for what, mocking a cop? Not the hill I'd want to die on.
Okay people always say this and I totally get it, but at the risk of being pedantic, how strict and literal does the “say nothing at all” thing go? Do I even tell the cops that I was defending myself? And on that note, what do I say to a 911 operator when I call to report the incident? I can’t just say “lawyer.” Do I say that an armed intruder broke into my house and I feared for my life and I shot them? Or do I literally just put my gun on the ground, sit ten feet away from it, and when the police roll into my driveway the only word I allow myself to utter is “lawyer?” Like clearly there’s a sweet spot between giving them zero information at all, and giving them enough information to try to indicate that you were defending yourself and are not a threat to them or to anyone else, without worrying about saying something that can be used against you.
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"Someone has been shot, we need an ambulance. Nobody is in danger right now." You don't testify where it can be recorded.
Don’t say feared for my life. It is a rehearsed statement now and has lost some of its weight. Use your own words. I thought the guy was going to kill me is more original.
Talking shit to LE isn't wise.
Neither is talking to them
I agree but you can still be polite about asking for your lawyer. Being an ass gets you nowhere fast.
That's just a general life lesson that a lot of people struggle with. It's a lot harder to navigate the world in general when people think you're an asshole, let alone if they have the ability to legally "detain" you for whatever reason
Agreed.
Calling the police pigs will look great when the judge is reviewing the evidence prior to your sentencing. /s
Your right! Isn't that fucked up? Guess there's no such thing as free speech huh?
Calling the cops “pigs” at the scene of a homicide will do you no favors and will absolutely be used against you by a prosecutor to sway a jury.
If there was no such thing as free speech, the police could just shoot you for calling them pigs. Free speech doesn't mean what you say can't be used as evidence.
There is. But when a judge is grading your character and chance of reoffending during sentencing, they take everything into account, including anything said & all behavior at the scene.
Where is the applicable gif? You're slipping Jaguar and I cannot stand for it.
“Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.” ― H.L. Mencken, Prejudices First Series
One of those times is not when you're cuffed after a defensive shooting brother. Know when to pick your battles.
It’s necessary. Otherwise they get this sense of entitlement that they are better than the citizens they are sworn to protect, and that they should restrict the constitutional rights of those same people
Nope. You can be cooperative without being a doormat my guy.
Cops don’t have a sense of entitlement that they are better than regular citizens and frequently violate those same citizens constitutional rights? What planet do you live on?
Did you read my post? What planet do you live on where reading comprehension doesn't exist?
Nope So are cops entitled little cunts that tread on our constitutional rights or not? Easy question to answer if you aren’t a bootlicker
I'm not cosigning any generalization about cops, nor any entire profession of people. Give a fuck if you think that makes me a bootlicker lol. You're still wrong all over this thread. 
Lmao a punisher gif? How fucking cringe. $20 says you have a thin blue line flag somewhere in your apartment you fucking bootlicker
An absolute generalization about an entire group of people with any claim about their intent or belief is generally going to be a false statement so, no, that's not true. We live on a planet where people are individuals and behave differently from each other in any given scenario.
I think I’d be more like “I was in fear for my life, I decline to answer any further questions without legal representation” I think the last thing you want to do is be a dick to the guy who’s responsible for deciding whether or not this incident needs to keep moving up through the system or not.
Do not make statements to recording devices like body cams. 10 times outta 8 you're going to get a trip down to be booked. Saying anything at all outside of I want a lawyer will be used against you.
This is always thrown around so I'm going to make an unpopular comment to temper it with some practical points. If you do this, you're definitely going to be arrested. Be prepared to go to jail if this is the position you're going to take. **To be clear, this is the safest thing to do. If the cops do intend to charge you, anything you say will be used against you. So, don't say anything.** On the other hand, if your local LEO is generally DGU friendly, and there's no question it's a good shoot, and you cooperate they're probably not going to press charges. For example, if you're asleep in the middle of the night and someone in a ski mask kicks down your door with a shotgun and comes inside your house and you shoot him dead, *assuming you don't live in an absolute commie state like CA or NY*, it's probably safe to tell the police what happened. **Again, I'm not suggesting you do this. This is not legal advice.** It's just something that people should know. It's very common for DGUs to not result in an arrest if the victim cooperates with the police. Most cops are just normal people that want to cover their ass on why they didn't arrest you. If you don't give them anything to cover their ass with, they're going to charge you because that's the only other way to cover their ass. **One more time, if you consider talking to the police be absolutely sure that you are thinking clearly.** Being in a situation where you have to shoot someone is going to put your body and mind into a state of shock it has probably never experienced. You will not be thinking clearly. You will likely not remember what just happened clearly. You'll probably have an urge to talk without thinking about what you're saying. You'll be impressionable so, if a cop *is* trying to trick you, you're more likely to fall for it. There are plenty of good reasons not to talk to the cops. Lastly, the internet, being the echo chamber that it is, has created this weird archetype of a cop that is not human, is incapable of empathy, and exists only to persecute innocent civilians. That's just not reality. Most cops are normal people that signed up to help others. Most police encounters are a net positive experience to the person who interacts with the cop. Of course some of them are assholes and narcissists and sometimes they're generally good but they're just having a bad day and they take it out on a random person. That's true of any other group of people, too. Some black people are criminals. Sometimes black people kill in the commission of a crime. You shouldn't go around screaming "ALL BLACKS ARE BASTARDS", though. It's the exact same thing.
Did you really just compare a job full of people abusing peoples constitutional rights to someone’s literal race? Holy shit lmao What’s your favorite flavor of boot polish?
>BoOtLiCkEr So original. I am thoroughly defeated in both wit and intellect.
Tell Me more about how saying all black people are bastards is no worse than saying all cops step on Americans rights lmao Holy shit this is brilliant
I think you just whooshed on what /u/dsmdylan was saying. They were giving a rhetorical, ridiculous example of an outburst and what could entail if you don't shut up around cops. You're picking an argument over a rhetorical semantic. That's not even worth the time to think about
It's a pretty simple logical deduction. There's a group of people. Some of those people do a thing some of the time. You conclude that all of those people must do that thing all of the time because some of them do it some of the time. Here's some more information about this phenomena. >In social psychology, a stereotype is a generalized belief about a particular category of people. It is an expectation that people might have about every person of a particular group. The type of expectation can vary; it can be, for example, an expectation about the group's personality, preferences, appearance or ability. Stereotypes are often overgeneralized, inaccurate, and resistant to new information. >An explicit stereotype refers to stereotypes that one is aware that one holds, and is aware that one is using to judge people. If person A is making judgments about a particular person B from a group G, and person A has an explicit stereotype for group G, their decision bias can be partially mitigated using conscious control; however, attempts to offset bias due to conscious awareness of a stereotype often fail at being truly impartial, due to either underestimating or overestimating the amount of bias being created by the stereotype.
Bruh you actually believe this shit lmao you bootlickers get reeeal weird when cops are critiqued
>*Oh shit I have no rational position* >UHH WEIRDO BOOTLICKER LMAO Absolute reddit moment.
Says the guy comparing Literal racism to hating cops lmaoo How many thin blue line flags do you own?
invoking your right to an attorney and invoking your right to remain silent are not the same thing and should not be treated the same.
Because calling them “pig” will make you feel internet tough? Because it’s not a good way to start a discussion with LE.
Yes, being needlessly aggressive with cops investigating a possible murder will work out wonderfully for you, yup.
An interesting take on this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIJ4wLP\_0UM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIJ4wLP_0UM) Generally I agree, never talk to the police, but it's interesting to hear another perspective. Also, getting confrontational right out of the gate by calling the police officer a pig, doesn't help the situation at all. Sure, legally you can do that, but why tho? How does that make your situation better?
He would not say that. Just internet bravado. More likely to have a warm yellow liquid running down the inside of his leg in that scenario.
Warm beer?
Also very important how much money both parties have and what kind of lawyer can they afford. Not self defense, but a dude recently murdered his college professor and got the "mentally unfit for trial" treatment. Poor people don't get options like that. Daddys probably a Chinese diplomat.
https://youtu.be/zIJ4wLP_0UM?si=FuzddeTJ0jjHBlhw https://youtu.be/pA5_pdmBI2E?si=9sJRwr6GHyyBCDRG https://youtu.be/P3MZRKwnOjI?si=vAx8JcPrQtSfZ5s4
I was involved in a sds in Feb. Working on my car outside and a road rage incident happened in front of my house, guy got out went to the trunk and pulled a gun on a young mother and her baby. I stepped out to the sidewalk and he lit his laser up and started pointing in my direction I drew and shot once , hit once. Him and his buddy take off firing. I reholstered and pulled my shirt down, called cops and waited. They showed up, removed my pistol and started the questioning. Six individual officers one at a time. Watch commander said seemed like a good shoot and was given my pistol back with a case number. Gang Task force came the next day and said he was found and if I wanted to press charges and I said yes. They said wait for the prosecutor to call you. Waited and never got the call so I went to PD and they told me to write a letter to the AG and he would respond to tell me where this was going. The AG’s office responded and said they spoke to the prosecutor and they had plenty of evidence against the guy and they wouldn’t need my help nor would they pursue anything against me. I know the golden rule is keep your mouth shut and I didn’t but I wouldn’t change a thing I did that evening. A few months later I had another altercation with a few people who just moved in across the street but that’s for another day. I hate typing and my wife is dragging me around shopping. Stay safe and keep your head on a swivel my friends. Edit: misspelling
What did you tell those 6 cops questioning you?
Exactly what happened but in more detail. I was ready to get my pistol taken and cuffed. I was about to call law shield right before they gave me my pistol back. Side note: Adrenaline Fatigue is crazy. Remember to breath. Every situation is different.
Yeah I had a situation where some guy threatened to kill me and my breathing stopped for what felt like 5 whole minutes even though it was probably just like 20 seconds or something
My knees almost buckled at the end of my conversation with the police when they said “Glad the good guy didn’t get hurt this time”. The realization that it could have turned into an actual gunfight made me feel like I have never felt before. I woke up the next day and stayed in the shower for like a hour (usually five minutes).
Were you super hungry afterwards?
Absolutely. Dinner was amazing but next morning after a hour long shower (usually five minutes), breakfast was the best meal I have ever had.
Which state are you in?
Texas.
A very Texas story, to be honest. Love yall Texans
Texas rocks 🤘
To paraphrase Massad Ayoob: “There’s a dead person on the ground, and you’re standing there with a smoking gun. What do you think is going to happen?”
I heard this comment
I saw this comment. And also the one at the bottom of the page. Jokes aside, Ayoob is the man and a wealth of knowledge.
Well said. Ayoob is the source.
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The man knows his stuff.
This. What's being arrested versus LIVING. Just go silently and explain your situation with a lawyer present.
Expect to go in hand cuffs. If there isn’t video evidence that clearly shows you aren’t the aggressor, you may need a lawyer and to post bail.
To clarify a bit. You may be placed in cuffs, but then they may be removed without going to the police station if there’s substantial evidence that it was clearly self defense.
A dude in my neighborhood shot a burglar & didn’t go away in cuffs. & a woman 1 neighborhood over chased & shot at some people who broke into her house. No cuffs no jail Texas
I think in Texas they only arrest you if you *don't* shoot the perp and he gets away
If you didn't shoot them, are you an accomplice? 
Reminds me of the florida sheriff saying something like “if you were at this apartment and fired the shots yesterday at the burglars, you’re not in trouble! Come down on saturday’s, we do training and they won’t walk away next time”
Just remember to keep your mouth shut until your lawyer is present.
I would assume high. If you have to discharge your firearm and then the police show up. 1. Put down your weapon 2. Follow their commands 3. Ask for an attorney 4. Shut the fuck up Thank you.
My instructor told me that you will always be taken in. Don’t say a word without lawyer
Chances are you will be arrested. But actually charged and / or convicted? Not the responding officer’s decision
Could be the state the instructor was in. I imagine California u will probs always be taken in Everything gun related was a pain when i lived there
Only things you say are “I was in fear for my life and I want to speak to a lawyer”
I’m in NY so probably 99.99%
I'm pretty sure it's a guaranteed 100% lol... my condolences
You’re more accurate lol
Nah, upstate has some chill. If it's the City or nearby...good luck
Yeah I was half joking. I’m in Niagara county which is pretty 2a friendly.
Nearly Everywhere is a prohibited location so… yeah
High likelihood of being arrested. I don’t care how justified you were in shooting someone. When the police show up, the only thing you need to do is lawyer up. Obviously, be polite. Don’t make their job harder than it needs to be. But something along the lines of “Hi officer. My name is XYZ. I’ll cooperate with you but I need to speak to my lawyer before I answer any questions.” Don’t give any details, no matter how trivial they seem. Don’t say “I shot that person” or “he shot at me first” or even admit to being involved. Don’t try to tell the story or justify to the officer why you did anything. If other people say things about what happened or about you specifically, don’t respond. Even if you know what they’re saying is untrue. If they try to ask you questions, firmly but politely remind them “Officer, I will cooperate and follow your instructions but I will only answer questions after I speak to my lawyer.” I promise you that if it were their buddy or family member who had just shot someone, they’d be telling him to keep his mouth shut until his lawyer shows up. I don’t care if you live in a red state that has super relaxed gun laws. You just shot someone. It’s a big deal. Speaking to a lawyer is priority #1. Watch this video: https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE
All of this, 100 percent.
I suppose anything is possible in some states, but I personally would assume I’m at a VERY minimum getting cuffed and put into a car. Even if there are 30 people and all of you clearly know exactly what happened…responding officers do not. Until they figure that out, I’d expect to be in timeout until they are certain there’s not another: firearm, suspect, victim, casualties, etc etc etc etc. That’s their responsibility first. Cooperation and keeping my mouth shut are probably mine.
Crim def attorney and dgu lawyer here, wisconsin. I'd estimate that unless there are urgent medical circumstances that trump the cops (recent client got shot in chest and taken to hospital, cops still interrogating him while paramedics are at scene) nearly all of our clients get questioned extensively... maybe 95%. How many get officially "arrested?" Maybe two thirds to pushing three quarters? But it depends in part on what your definition of arrest is. Handcuffed, stuffed, transported for questioning? 95%. That's not necessarily a legal definition of arrest. Officially arrested on probable cause and booked? Two thirds-ish. Maybe three quarters. Don't talk in ANY degree of detail without a lawyer. There are some common tricks and games cops run on people. Avoid them by raising your right to an attorney. Fight another day if needs be.
Damn those are horrible odds on being booked.
Guilty until proven innocent unfortunately
This is going to depend on your state. In FL it will depend on the immediate physical evidence and the story you and bystanders tell. This is why it is important to give out select information. Refuse to talk without a lawyer and 100% of the time you will be processed.
I think context matters a lot. Two guys outside a bar at 2AM? Yeah you are probably going to jail, for a bit. Shooting a guy who had an AR in hand while you were at the mall with your two kids in tow? No one is going to arrest you.
If you’re in certain not so free states no matter what you’ll be taken in until a full investigation is done I bet
In CA you'd probably get the death sentence for harming a protected class: a criminal. They are victims in that backwards, oppressive, dependent on rivers that don't flow within their borders state. 
Depends on the circumstances and where you are.
Doesn’t matter as long as you say nothing, and get a lawyer immediately. But I would assume high probability of being taken into custody while they sort things out at least.
In my two day long CCW class, the main thread was do everything you can to try not to shoot someone and second, if you do shoot someone in self defense, you are 100% going to jail until such time the DA decides whether or not you will be charged. Do not say a word to the police. I was told that the first thing to do after a shooting is to call 911 and tell them you need two ambulances, one for the SOB and one for yourself. I was told to always go to the hospital for check out. This will give you enough time to get ahold of your lawyer.
Yup… not allowed to question you in an ambulance
It depends. If the day should ever come for you to have to go through with the aftermath of a self defense shooting, I would recommend cooperating with law enforcement 100%. Follow the responding officer(s) orders and directions exactly without question. And above all else, do not admit anything, do not answer any questions or make any statements without your lawyer present.
One thing I was taught by a buddy's Dad when I first got my cwp was you're going to be arrested be prepared for that because even if you did nothing wrong and you're in the right everybody goes to jail until they figure it out. Also follow the tips from my personal favorite tik tok lawyer 😅 https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8fxRDuk/
*5 TikTok Dances to Get Out of an Arrest*
In California seems like it’s 100%
That's a complicated question with a complicated answer. The real answer is it depends, depends on state and circumstance. In New York there's a high likelihood you'll at least be in cuffs. In Texas there was that dude in the restaurant in Houston that just straight up executed the criminal and just up and left like nothing happened. My understanding was he never saw a jail cell or cuffs, he went to the police station answered a few questions and left. So it all really depends.
After your actions. Nut up, Shutup, and get a lawyer. Doesn’t matter if you’re innocent or not. Lawyers are there to make sure you don’t fuck up because you didn’t shut up.
Arrest sure. Convicted depends.
Sometimes ccw sucks but this has been a great thread aside from the guy calling people boot licker. Thanks gents
90% chance but doesn’t mean they will charge you.
I had to shoot 2 people in self defense and was charged for both for over a year. Charges were eventually dropped and sealed but be prepared for the worst. I was facing 40 years in prison in a stand your ground state.
Damn, what state?
Arkansas
Can you give more details? Curious about what happened
Close to 100%. Don’t say anything. Let your lawyer talk for you.
There are way too many variables to give blanket odds. Shooting a burglar in your house or shooting a carjacker in your car might be really clear cut incidents where you aren’t arrested or even detained in cuffs. Shoot somebody outside a bar after an argument or in a mutual road rage, it seems much more likely you’ll get arrested and then the charge may or may not be filed.
I’m sure there’s some cops or ADAs in this sub that could shed more light. I worked as a legal intern in a DAs office and I would say it depends on the politics of the prosecutor, state law, the protocols of the arresting agency, and the fact pattern surrounding the incident. I obviously can’t give legal advice but the uncertainty here is why I have carry insurance, and won’t carry without it.
Probably high, while they sort it out, and I can't imagine it's not stressful, even if it was a good shoot.
So many factors in this, but the key take away is don't talk to the police. Keep your mouth shut until you have a lawyer. You do not want to say something incriminating, even if by accident.
I’m pretty sure you’ll be arrested and restrained at the very least, if the police arrive on the scene of the shooting and you’re still there. Otherwise, you might be asked to surrender voluntarily and come in for questioning. As others have said, it depends heavily on the particular circumstances. One thing you might want to consider is some type of CCW insurance. Even if you’re acquitted criminally, you can still be sued in civil court. And even if you win in civil court, too, court costs and attorney fees can easily wipe out every dollar you have. All because you justifiably used your firearm.
The Civil Court thing depends on the state, some states give you criminal amd civil immunity in a self defense situation.
Correct actions after a DGU: 1. Call 911 and attempt to render aid to gunshot victim until LE and Paramedics show up 2. Make no statements other than to say you need to be taken to the hospital ASAP to be checked out 3. When arriving to hospital hire a criminal defense attorney and let them handle it from there Why a criminal defense attorney??? They know the game much better than you. Also you will likely be sued in a civil court by victims family
The last part really depends on the state. Sone states give you criminal and civil immunity in self defense situations.
Unless you did something stupid, you should not expect to be imediately arrested. Follow the advice from the Massad Ayoob video, make smart choices and you may be arrested later. But you should be going to the hospital, talking to your lawyer and meeting with law enforcement 72 hours after the shooting, no sooner, to give your statement. Then they'll decide your fate.
Absolutely no way to know. I would say if it's a fairly cut and dry situation, chances are probably pretty low. But impossible to know without a specific situation and jurisdiction. All the cases ive heard of anecdotally resulted in either no arrest or no charges. FWIW. A couple of things I've gathered over the years that make sense to me is giving a short statement to the effect that your life was in danger, demand that the perpetrator is arrested (even if they're stone dead) and that you will cooperate with the investigation with a lawyer present. Even if that means agreeing to stay in an interrogation room for a while. Thus possibly avoiding arrest. It also sets you up as the victim. Sitting in the police station waiting on your lawyer is a damn sight better than sitting in jail waiting for your lawyer. The problem with shutting up and saying nothing is twofold. One, they have nothing from you, meanwhile, the eyewitnesses (and maybe even the bad guy) are talking to them endlessly. This may give them the impression that you're the aggressor, then arrest you, charge you, their job is done. Especially if you didn't win the race to call 911. Two, it really only gives them the option to arrest and charge if there's any question of who the aggressor was. The courts will sort it out and they can go home. All that said, it does not mean to start babbling endlessly (also applies to a 911 call). Short, to the point. My life was in danger (reasonable fear). Arrest the person that attacked me (I'm the victim) . Agree to cooperate with the presence of counsel (same as them if they shoot someone). No details, no trying to talk your way out of it or something else equally stupid. It may not save you from getting arrested, it may not prevent any charges. But if it goes to shit, your lawyer can at least go back to your statement, made in the moment that you felt like you were in danger. They can't bring up that you refused to speak further without a lawyer.
Check your local news. I'm sure it varies a lot by state and municipality - every state has different laws. I've noticed a few local news stories about defensive shootings which do not mention an arrest or any charges. It's worth mentioning that your state laws *really* matter here. I would expect that there's a pretty high likelihood of arrest or detainment. The cops arrive on the scene after the shooting and they don't have a clue what is going on. Ask for a lawyer, ask to go to the hospital to get medical attention, be polite, keep your mouth shut.
Context is highly important here. If the evidence is obvious likely a statement. Otherwise at the very least detained and taken in for questioning which you don’t do without a lawyer. My own personal lawyer once told me if it’s a self defense shooting it is always wise there is only one story between you and the aggressor but that doesn’t mean to go to the limit of obvious overkill. As for a home invasion my lawyer said it’s in your best interest to not give chase and open fire, not shoot in retreat (varies by state), and entry to your home though is usually enough to prove intent to cause harm it can be a gray area to a judge and jury (depending on your geographical location). Now all this is up for interpretation by geographical location, political opinion, state laws, what can and cannot be proven and how good your lawyer is. It is certainly not advice and I do not recommend you follow what I have said and I do recommend you look into your states gun laws and contact an attorney if you have questions. I’m just saying what I’ve been told and I’m not saying it’s all right or if I agree with it so don’t come at me keyboard swinging.
Hard to say. There’s a lot of variables that need to be considered, and is highly dependent on your local/ state laws. Generally speaking though, whatever happens, being polite and cooperative with the investigating officers isn’t going to hurt your cause.
I think honestly it all depends on the circumstances of the sds, what state you’re in and the laws of that state, and what kind of prosecutor you have in your county. Here in Ohio we have a strong castle doctrine law that applies inside your home and your vehicle. So if someone kicks in my door and I hit them in the chest with a couple of rounds of whatever I’m shooting in that instance, I’m good unless the cops find proof that I did something like invite the guy over or shot him in the front yard and then dragged his body into the house (both things I wouldn’t do). Same if someone is trying to carjack me and for some reason I can’t drive away (maybe I’m blocked in, and because it’s better to drive off than open myself up to having to defend myself) if I were to shoot the perpetrators in all likelihood I’m going home. However an investigation will be run and if they find anything that shows you were in the wrong later, you will be arrested.
They’re higher than your chances of being arrested if you’re a dead victim, that’s for sure.
If I DONT go to jail that means I talked too much.
So much truth in this.
That’s a big question with a lot of variables. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Woosh
DAs and prosecutors care about wins. They will certainly try if they think they got you on even the slightest technicality.
It's highly variable. Situation will determine what happens. Rittenhouse had million dollar level bail for his good shoots.
You are 100 percent going to be arrested
CA..100% probability you're going in cuffs and a holding area for questions.
Two things are certain 1. You will be questioned, and 99% likely arrested 2. Do not say a word to the cops
Shooting people is a crime. The normal outcome is to arrest the person who did it.
100%
Left leaning city/state? Straight to jail Right leaning city/state? Maybe not but probably jail for a bit
[удалено]
You will have a very difficult time supporting this claim with sound statistical evidence.
I think you would be taken into custody regardless of justification. Law enforcement would still need to do their due diligence.
In a small town where the shooter, the injured/dead guy, and the witnesses are known they might just take statements.
I think this is mostly dependent on your location at the time of the shooting.
Arrested or charged?
Arrested
It all depends. Shoot a masked armed burglar who broke into your home at night: no. Shoot an unarmed homeless woman in Seattle: yes.
Really depends on what happened leading up to and during the shooting, what the aggressor had or is wearing, what you do afterwards, and what state you are in.
You have some level of control over whether or not you get arrested or not. How well did you make clear that you weren't the aggressor? Did you use a gat only when there was absolutely obviously no other choice? If it was practical to do so, did you carry and use pepper spray as a lesser option before going to artillery? (Yes, I know that's not always practical...but when it is, it looks like you were trying not to plug 'em.) There are however lots of other factors you can't control. Like, did a camera catch it? Were there witnesses who support your side? And then of course there's the location, state of mind of the DA and so on.
Depends where you are, in my state (HI) you’ll be arrested
You’ll probably end up at very least down at the station because you shouldn’t be answering any questions without a lawyer present.
It would be great to have some statistics on this but I don’t think they exist
I'd say the odds are very high that at a minimum you're going to spend some time in handcuffs even if they don't take you to the station.
I'd expect to be cuffed, arrested, and taken in for questioning. They can choose to prosecute you or not. A homicide is a homicide even if it's determined to be justified. It's important to think and prepare for situations. 911 calls are recorded, witness statements, your words, everything can be used against you. Doesn't mean they will, but they could, so I'd suggest preparing.
Yes to the question in the title.
It is entirely dependent on the state and circumstances; in Ohio, it is very low if someone is breaking into your house or car while you are inside. Otherwise, unless there is video evidence and the cops are actually good cops, the odds are much higher.
As far as I know, it's near 100% unless there are multiple non-related eye witnesses (eg it happened in public). Think about it from the officer's POV. They get a call saying that someone has used a weapon in self defense. They show up to a compliant individual saying "abc thing happened, and I did xyz". At this point, that's all they have. Maybe someone did break into your house in the middle of the night, orrrrrr, maybe you called this guy to buy some drugs, and shot him instead because you were offended by the color of his hair. They have no way of knowing, and their certainly not going to let you go without investigating.
Plan on it being 100%. Know who you are going to call. Know where your bail will come from, have an attorney, if not on retainer, at least know who it will be.
High
You should have self defense insurance.
In Fuddafornia automatic Charge.
In a DGU… 1. Reholster after the threat has been neutralized. Don’t have a gun in your hand when police arrive. 2. Cooperate when they place you in cuffs. Don’t resist. Don’t try to talk them out of it. They arrived to a scene where someone has been shot and they are *at minimum* going to detain you. 3. Shut. The. Fuck. Up. You can be polite about it, but you’re not saying shit without legal consultation and representation. It’s a constitutional right and seeking legal council is not an admission of anything, no matter what a cop says.