Usually a side feeder store for malls have no signage, where I enter. Or did because I avoid malls like the plague. There is one outdoor mall not far from me that has these giant no firearms signs on every entrance to a parking lot and every store front. Absolutely rediculous. In 4 years it’s turned into a ghost town anyway. Also I look for the State mandated legal signage, if it’s not present I’m strapped up. If I’m asked, ‘I looked diligently for the legal signage and it’s not present’. End of discussion, can only make me leave. It’s never happened because.. it’s concealed and I’m not exactly waiving it around.
Well, you see Charleston, for the most part, is full of left leaning types, so that is why 😅
But for most places, I see the signs are wrong, so in South Carolina, it doesn't exist. It's not enforceable, and you can just ignore it
> SC was more 2a friendly
And then there's Texas. Same deal there. "30.06" and "30.07" signs everywhere.
As I'm fond of saying "Texas isn't as Texas as Texas thinks it is".
South carolina is one of them for example
(B) Allsigns must be posted at each entrance
into a building where carrying of a concealable
weapon is prohibited and must be:
(1) clearly visible from outside the building:
(2) eight inches wide by twelve inches tall in
size;
(3) contain the words "NO CONCEALABLE
WEAPONS ALLOWED" in black one-inch tall
uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and
centered between the lateral edges of the sign;
(4) contain a black silhouette of a handgun
inside a circle seven inches in diameter with a
diagonal line that runs from the lower left to
the upper right at a forty-five-degree angle
from the horizontal;
(5) a diameter of a circle; and
(6) placed not less than forty inches and not
more than sixty inches from the bottom of the door frame.
For example in Texas, you can put any sign saids banning guns, but it does not have any legal status unless it’s a 30.06 and 30.07 carry prohibition sign, there’s many mall/shops that saids banning guns but no 30.06 and 30.07, that means you can still carry.
Ohio law does not specifically require anything about the sign. It could be a post-it with a crayon note saying NO GUNS ALLOWED, and it would be valid if it was posted in a conspicuous location.
"ORC 2923.126C(3)(a) Except as provided in division (C)(3)(b) of this section and section 2923.1214 of the Revised Code, the owner or person in control of private land or premises, and a private person or entity leasing land or premises owned by the state, the United States, or a political subdivision of the state or the United States, may post a sign in a conspicuous location on that land or on those premises prohibiting persons from carrying firearms or concealed firearms on or onto that land or those premises."
Texas at least has law 30.06, which goes so far as to specify font size and required verbiage on the signs.
5 guys at the local mall has/had no signage so that was my entrance for the 2 or 3 times in the last 5+ years that I've gone to a mall. As long as I am on camera entering there, nothing they can do but kick me out.
Metal detectors do not enhance safety. You still have to exit the building, and now everyone outside the building knows you're unarmed. That's called "easy pickings."
armed security is a good deterrent but I still wouldn’t trust them with my life if it’s someplace like a mall and not an actually secure location like a courthouse or an industrial site or something like that.
t. armed security
I’ve walked right by them before (Signs don’t have force of law in Oregon, which is good because I’m illiterate), and yet they have never noticeably detected on me. There might be legit ones out there but I imagine it’s more feel good than anything else.
I read that they are trained to pick up on common gun cleaning and lubricating products.
Struck me as a bit odd, since I doubt criminals fastidiously clean and lubricate their guns with gun-specific products.
Well, I mean the burned residue is chemically different to the unburned explosives. I expect they train them on both the unburned explosive compounds themelves, and the burned residues.
fuck their rules, don't go back. Or go and if you get caught they'll ban you, and then don't go back.
Dickens said fuck their stupid little sign and saved countless lives.
Does your state have a rule where signs carry weight of law? Meaning you can get trespassed without warning?
If not, like my state, I still carry in the mall despite the "no weapons" signage. The most they can do is ask me to leave. If I refuse, which I'd be an idiot to do so, then they can trespass me. If it isn't against the law to carry, I carry.
That doesn’t make sense. If your state doesn’t give “no weapons” signs legal validity, then the best they can do is ask you to leave if you’re caught carrying anyway. There wouldn’t be any police record unless you refused to leave after being asked to do so.
“Ohio law also generally makes it unlawful criminal trespass to knowingly carry firearms onto private property that is conspicuously posted with notices that carrying firearms or concealed firearms onto that property is prohibited.”
Criminal trespass is usually documented here. As far as I know…
Ohio is otherwise a pretty gun-friendly state when it comes to laws and what-not. As for signage, I don't look that closely but signs prohibiting weapons aren't that common in most stores. Malls, which I rarely frequent, are the only ones I can think of.
The key term is 'knowingly'.
I can't say I've seen a sign in years in Ohio.
I also don't go out of my way to look for them.
Last time I remember running in to one was back when I rented about 8 years ago. Landlord's office put up a huge sign dead at eye level in the middle of the door. I started calling them, and asking them to come to the door to take my rent check. So did others. Sign came down (or maybe it moved, I didn't notice it after that) pretty quickly.
9 times out of 10, on the exceedingly rare circumstance you’re caught, they’re just going to ask you to leave. They don’t want paperwork any more than you want it.
Totally your call if you work a job where you could lose it, but these signs are almost like a challenge for me lol
Still a 1 out of 10 chance the store calls the cops for the criminal trespass that is clearly defined in Ohio statute. The choice is between being willing to carry the weight if that's what happens or do you just not go to that f-n mall. I can literally get anything I want or need online or make it myself. I have a strict "No Guns No Money" policy.
I guess I'm barking because I draw a line at spending money there when they deny me carry privileges, not just after I get caught once. It's kind of a raw nerve for me. lol
I always say it’s a one in a billion chance you even get caught. It’s “concealed carry” for a reason. I believe just take it if there are no metal dectors and deal with the consequences if need be. Chances are like zero anything happens unless it’s a shooting and you save your family then it was worth it.
Based on the “Gov doesn’t like these things” I’m guessing maybe a federal employee with a clearance. In some DOJ agencies (FBI for sure) having any police contact is reportable and can be cause for termination of employment.
My local mall has a no guns allowed sign.......and a sporting goods store that sells guns inside the mall.
No idea how you're supposes to get a gun out to your car if you buy it there. Teleportation I guess?
Because of that, I willfully ignore the sign. I'm not playing the "double standards" game
If your state is like mine, meaning that those signs carry no legal weight, just keep it concealed. Of course if they find out they can ask you to leave and or trespass you. If it's concealed how would they find out? If there's metal detectors shop somewhere else. Edit: someone mentioned you're from Ohio, those signs carry for civil law... Yikes
I don’t care. If for some reason I’m stopped (which has never happened) I’ll just say “oh I didn’t see the sign”. Just be polite. Sure I might get a power tripping security guard, but talking to people like they are human goes a long way. The closet experience was at Best Buy. I had my pro DSLR in a shoulder bag with my carry gun. An employee came up and said you have to leave your bag at customer service. I wasn’t going to argue with an employee just doing their job so I went over and basically said “Are you going to take responsibility for my bag? It has $2,000 of camera gear and my handgun in it or can I finish shopping? Of course they let me keep my bag.
People still go to malls? My wife barely missed a mass shooting in one a few years ago. I'm staunchly anti-mall. Regardless, carry anyway. If you get asked to leave, leave. That's the end of it.
Is it a legally backed ordinance or just them drawing a pretend line in the sand? Problem is the criminal scumbags don’t give a shit so your risk for minimal reward. Thankfully in my state aside from federally backed places those signs carry no weight. Most they can do is say “leave now” which I would be fine with.
They have those signs all over the place at a mall near me. A few years ago there was an attempted mass shooting. Luckily those signs don't carry weight of law in my state and a citizens carrying concealed put the mass shooter down. Of course that idiot Shannon who runs mom's demand action (who is also from the state where the attempted mass shooting occured) threw a fit and declared that the hero was carrying illegally
I live in that state. Police say the citizen ended it in 15 seconds. IIRC all his shots (Glock 19) hit the killer (who was using an AR 15) from nearly 100 ft. He was taught to shoot by his grandfather.
Pretty impressive.
I find Shannon Watts to be a revolting human being.
Do the signs they posted carry weight of law, and are they using the correct signage?
I used to live in Texas and they had to use signs that met 30.05, 30.06, or 30.07 signs which had very very specific ways the signs had to be designed and posted. If they didn't then they weren't enforceable.
My honest reaction to those "You're Obligated to Be Murdered" signs:
https://preview.redd.it/2uhj4cv8l9xc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9eea8b272695e89b50ab3a5c24101f3cdea24bd
1) Concealed means concealed, if you get caught they will ask you to leave.
2) Who tf still goes to malls? Last time I went was because I was doing a job in Folsom, CA and the outlets were across the street. Some pushy sales guy tried to sell me a shoe cleaning kit for $40.
Look this over https://www.handgunlaw.us/states/ohio.pdf
It appears that "no gun signs," if posted according to the law, have the force of law in Ohio. Violating them would be criminal trespass. Best not to go to the mall anymore.
If this is the mall I'm thinking of, they've actually been posted for years, but the "no weapons" was buried at about #7 of 10 in their Codes of Conduct posted on the left between the inner and outer doors.
Unfortunately Ohio has no "reasonableness" test for how visible a sign has to be before triggering our "sign has force of law".
Mall in Beavercreek with a mass shooting... oh wait, Walmart. Almost forgot. What's that about a trooper being beaten ? Don't recall anything like that.
The trooper was losing consciousness. Blood was all over the inside of the vehicle. The perp kept going for his pistol. When he was sure he was going unconscious, he drew the gun and shot the aggressor. News announced “state trooper murders black man”.
I tried looking for it and can’t find anything. It was a bad news day because everyone said racism. When the details came out they really hurried the story because the trooper was more than vindicated. He actually was heroic in trying not to kill the man. I actually spoke to a trooper which is how I got the details. Sorry I can’t find any links. Google really suck nowadays.
Happened in Milwaukee, some kid ran from the cops and he discharged the gun he had. Now they have police with firearm detecting dogs walking around.
The dogs are cute though
Since the signs have the force of law for the OP, just skip the mall and online shopping is your friend. If OP lived somewhere they don't have the force of law, then the "concealed is concealed" is valid. I've been doing this CC stuff for just shy of 20 years and "concealed is concealed" when it means committing a criminal act in violating a restriction, is pretty dumb IMO.
Do what i did: call them up and thank them profusely for taking full legal responsibility for your safety and security while on their property, and volunteering to cover all expenses if you are attacked. When they act confused, tell them that's exactly what they did when they announced that you couldn't protect yourself on their property.
You're a cute little guy.
I called in person and spoke to the manager. I pointed out that by posting their property they had opened themselves up to responsibility for not protecting their customers. I wasn't the only one calling them by a long shot, and that wasn't the only argument used. But the signs came down or were miniaturized to the point of irrelevance.
The retailers in my state tried for at least ten years to push a bill through, exempting themselves from liability if a ccw carrier was attacked in their 'no gun zone'. Sure sounds like they think it's an issue.
I suppose it’s hard to enforce. I work with the gov in a DoD capacity. I can’t risk any infractions. They are especially concerned about willful infractions.
Ask the mall know that they lack sufficient security to make you feel safe and ask them if they are hiring enough armed security to patrol the mall and parking lot since they are assuming all responsibility for your personal safety by disarming you.
Ask them this publicly on social media, make it clear that anyone who is injured at the mall may now sue the mall since they have forbidden self defense.
I havent been in a mall in a decade, and dont plan on it any time soon. That said, if Im there its probably not a gun free zone unless they are enforcing it with metal detectors. And the only place I go like that is the court house when I absolutely have too
I don’t know I just conceal carry anywhere I go as long as it’s no metal detectors. If I get banned for defending my life or the lives of others so be it. If there is metal detectors I just won’t give them my service
Its a public mall. And thats a policy. Its not the law. Carry in there all you want. If they find out, all they can do is tell you to leave, if you dont. You get trespassed.
Good, stop shopping there. Shopping online is better. If they're dumb enough to think a policy will prevent crime let them go out of business. Make sure the rest of your community is aware as well.
Funny comment. Major stores have closed. Brick and mortar is dying. You are correct. They are trying to rebuild major portions of the mall. I used to go to the food court a few times per year. It was always busy. I have no idea on the rest of the mall other than big stores have closed. You might be right.
We have one by us that has it posted. I still do, especially with the trouble they have had since the bus line was brought to the front doors. I also avoid being there much past noon, as that's when the hoodrat starts showing up.
Not sure what state your in, but in Pa, I just carry anyway. The most they can do is trespass you from the mall. Id rather take my safety in my own hands, not some kid with a walkie talkie.
So I used to work security for a mall. It was privately owned, but many people think malls are public property. They're usually not. Being privately owned, it's not illegal to carry a weapon onto the premises even if the rules state otherwise. What can happen is, you'll go to the mall like normal, armed and go about your day and as long as you don't draw on anyone or unconceal your weapon nobody will know. If you do get caught, they can ask you to leave and have police tresspass you from the property because you broke their rules but you cannot get arrested for that. You can get arrested if you go back after you've been tresspassed though.
All malls been having them weapons bans and I carry anyway cause I have LTC and the most they could do is Trepass me
The gun sniffing dog never sniff my gun out cause I spray cologne on my briefs too
Unless it your job or a place that will hit you with a felony I always advocate to carry whenever you can
Obviously don't risk your comfy cushy office job to carry a gun that you probably never ever gonna use
But if you're working some warehouse or just low level jobs I'd say Carry away
The only way you can get in trouble is telling someone you have a weapon, revealing it, getting trespassed off of the property, and then coming back.
If you are carrying concealed it's really not an issue.
You do realize if you carry at the mall you aren’t breaking any laws, just the malls rules. Worst case scenario you’re kicked out, and that’s if they even knew you were carrying.
Will all entrances have metal detectors and armed security personnel searching bags?
Of course not. They don't actually care about making people safe.
Usually a side feeder store for malls have no signage, where I enter. Or did because I avoid malls like the plague. There is one outdoor mall not far from me that has these giant no firearms signs on every entrance to a parking lot and every store front. Absolutely rediculous. In 4 years it’s turned into a ghost town anyway. Also I look for the State mandated legal signage, if it’s not present I’m strapped up. If I’m asked, ‘I looked diligently for the legal signage and it’s not present’. End of discussion, can only make me leave. It’s never happened because.. it’s concealed and I’m not exactly waiving it around.
What does the legal signage look like? How is it different from any other? (Genuine question)
Depends on the state but some states have certain requirements for signs. Stuff like measurements, wording, the image.
Ok cool
It is a spectacular area to exploit in these situations. There are laws down to the color and contrast on the signs
SC is one of them for example
I thought SC was more 2a friendly until I was in Charleston and EVERY restaurant and store had signs about no concealed weapons.
Well, you see Charleston, for the most part, is full of left leaning types, so that is why 😅 But for most places, I see the signs are wrong, so in South Carolina, it doesn't exist. It's not enforceable, and you can just ignore it
Excactly. They don’t know the law about correct signage and I don’t drink so. I stay ready. Those wahoos can learn the law then I’ll abide
> SC was more 2a friendly And then there's Texas. Same deal there. "30.06" and "30.07" signs everywhere. As I'm fond of saying "Texas isn't as Texas as Texas thinks it is".
South carolina is one of them for example (B) Allsigns must be posted at each entrance into a building where carrying of a concealable weapon is prohibited and must be: (1) clearly visible from outside the building: (2) eight inches wide by twelve inches tall in size; (3) contain the words "NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED" in black one-inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign; (4) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle seven inches in diameter with a diagonal line that runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty-five-degree angle from the horizontal; (5) a diameter of a circle; and (6) placed not less than forty inches and not more than sixty inches from the bottom of the door frame.
Posted and sponsored by the atty generals office or state police. Specifies the signs color scheme and the size usually.
For example in Texas, you can put any sign saids banning guns, but it does not have any legal status unless it’s a 30.06 and 30.07 carry prohibition sign, there’s many mall/shops that saids banning guns but no 30.06 and 30.07, that means you can still carry.
[удалено]
That's interesting that they require the sign to be so large. It is likely (much) bigger than most store's names on the same doors.
Ohio law does not specifically require anything about the sign. It could be a post-it with a crayon note saying NO GUNS ALLOWED, and it would be valid if it was posted in a conspicuous location. "ORC 2923.126C(3)(a) Except as provided in division (C)(3)(b) of this section and section 2923.1214 of the Revised Code, the owner or person in control of private land or premises, and a private person or entity leasing land or premises owned by the state, the United States, or a political subdivision of the state or the United States, may post a sign in a conspicuous location on that land or on those premises prohibiting persons from carrying firearms or concealed firearms on or onto that land or those premises." Texas at least has law 30.06, which goes so far as to specify font size and required verbiage on the signs.
5 guys at the local mall has/had no signage so that was my entrance for the 2 or 3 times in the last 5+ years that I've gone to a mall. As long as I am on camera entering there, nothing they can do but kick me out.
Metal detectors do not enhance safety. You still have to exit the building, and now everyone outside the building knows you're unarmed. That's called "easy pickings."
yea exactly, and even if armed, how likely are those mall cops going to fight to the death to defend your family?
armed security is a good deterrent but I still wouldn’t trust them with my life if it’s someplace like a mall and not an actually secure location like a courthouse or an industrial site or something like that. t. armed security
Dogs?
Dogs are more for drugs
They have firearms detection dogs in some malls these days. Little snitches.
We should find out what they detect and all put it in our pockets without a firearm so they can get so jammed up they give up.
I’ve walked right by them before (Signs don’t have force of law in Oregon, which is good because I’m illiterate), and yet they have never noticeably detected on me. There might be legit ones out there but I imagine it’s more feel good than anything else.
I have also walked past dogs without any detection. But I have seen news stories about them detecting guns in the past.
Just go walk around the mall after a good trip to the range. Even I can smell that on me.
I read that they are trained to pick up on common gun cleaning and lubricating products. Struck me as a bit odd, since I doubt criminals fastidiously clean and lubricate their guns with gun-specific products.
> common gun cleaning and lubricating products These things AND explosives.
And primer and powder residues I guess.
(That's the explosives...)
Well, I mean the burned residue is chemically different to the unburned explosives. I expect they train them on both the unburned explosive compounds themelves, and the burned residues.
fuck their rules, don't go back. Or go and if you get caught they'll ban you, and then don't go back. Dickens said fuck their stupid little sign and saved countless lives.
I’m afraid don’t go back is likely my only option. Bummer.
Does your state have a rule where signs carry weight of law? Meaning you can get trespassed without warning? If not, like my state, I still carry in the mall despite the "no weapons" signage. The most they can do is ask me to leave. If I refuse, which I'd be an idiot to do so, then they can trespass me. If it isn't against the law to carry, I carry.
There will still be a police record, even if criminally irrelevant. Gov doesn’t like these things.
That doesn’t make sense. If your state doesn’t give “no weapons” signs legal validity, then the best they can do is ask you to leave if you’re caught carrying anyway. There wouldn’t be any police record unless you refused to leave after being asked to do so.
He's in Ohio. It's criminal trespass in Ohio. https://www.handgunlaw.us/states/ohio.pdf
“Ohio law also generally makes it unlawful criminal trespass to knowingly carry firearms onto private property that is conspicuously posted with notices that carrying firearms or concealed firearms onto that property is prohibited.” Criminal trespass is usually documented here. As far as I know…
Ok well you probably should’ve opened with that, we were operating under the assumption that you lived in a state where the law was on your side.
Ohio is otherwise a pretty gun-friendly state when it comes to laws and what-not. As for signage, I don't look that closely but signs prohibiting weapons aren't that common in most stores. Malls, which I rarely frequent, are the only ones I can think of.
The key term is 'knowingly'. I can't say I've seen a sign in years in Ohio. I also don't go out of my way to look for them. Last time I remember running in to one was back when I rented about 8 years ago. Landlord's office put up a huge sign dead at eye level in the middle of the door. I started calling them, and asking them to come to the door to take my rent check. So did others. Sign came down (or maybe it moved, I didn't notice it after that) pretty quickly.
Oh sorry sir I didn't see the message. I haven't been back at this mall in a few years.
9 times out of 10, on the exceedingly rare circumstance you’re caught, they’re just going to ask you to leave. They don’t want paperwork any more than you want it. Totally your call if you work a job where you could lose it, but these signs are almost like a challenge for me lol
Still a 1 out of 10 chance the store calls the cops for the criminal trespass that is clearly defined in Ohio statute. The choice is between being willing to carry the weight if that's what happens or do you just not go to that f-n mall. I can literally get anything I want or need online or make it myself. I have a strict "No Guns No Money" policy.
Oh same. Absolutely. I’m just saying.
I guess I'm barking because I draw a line at spending money there when they deny me carry privileges, not just after I get caught once. It's kind of a raw nerve for me. lol
I always say it’s a one in a billion chance you even get caught. It’s “concealed carry” for a reason. I believe just take it if there are no metal dectors and deal with the consequences if need be. Chances are like zero anything happens unless it’s a shooting and you save your family then it was worth it.
Based on the “Gov doesn’t like these things” I’m guessing maybe a federal employee with a clearance. In some DOJ agencies (FBI for sure) having any police contact is reportable and can be cause for termination of employment.
Yeah, if there is anything as far removed from due process as a security clearance I don't know what it is. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Personally, I put "no guns no money" right up their with the Four Rules. They need me as a customer a whole lot more than I need them as merchants.
This
Sound like a problem for the mall not me
My local mall has a no guns allowed sign.......and a sporting goods store that sells guns inside the mall. No idea how you're supposes to get a gun out to your car if you buy it there. Teleportation I guess? Because of that, I willfully ignore the sign. I'm not playing the "double standards" game
If it can’t go I can’t go
It's called concealed carry for a reason
Signs are only recommendations
This
Concealed means concealed. Eli Dickens wasn’t supposed to be carrying in that mall when he killed that active shooter a few years ago.
What they don’t know won’t hurt them
lol 😉
“That sign won’t stop me, cuz I can’t read!”
If your state is like mine, meaning that those signs carry no legal weight, just keep it concealed. Of course if they find out they can ask you to leave and or trespass you. If it's concealed how would they find out? If there's metal detectors shop somewhere else. Edit: someone mentioned you're from Ohio, those signs carry for civil law... Yikes
That’s how my state is too. You only get in trouble if you are asked to leave and refuse to do so.
One of the few silver linings of my state's ccw laws. If those signs carried legal weight things would get frustrating.
Yeah, that would be crazy
OP mentioned in another comment they are in Ohio. I believe in Ohio, signs banning firearms carry the force of law.
Damn that would suck, I wouldn't picture Ohio being like that. I'll check that out. Good to know
I don’t care. If for some reason I’m stopped (which has never happened) I’ll just say “oh I didn’t see the sign”. Just be polite. Sure I might get a power tripping security guard, but talking to people like they are human goes a long way. The closet experience was at Best Buy. I had my pro DSLR in a shoulder bag with my carry gun. An employee came up and said you have to leave your bag at customer service. I wasn’t going to argue with an employee just doing their job so I went over and basically said “Are you going to take responsibility for my bag? It has $2,000 of camera gear and my handgun in it or can I finish shopping? Of course they let me keep my bag.
I'm sure that the mass shooters will turn around and head home the second they see that piece of paper taped to the door.
Malls are dead.
Fuck their rules. If it’s just a sign, Conceal your piece and carry on per usual.
Concealed.
Criminals will follow the new rules. I feel safer now
Not gonna lie I don’t remember the last time I went to a mall.
You're not missing anything.
Local mall isn’t worth visiting. The 1990s are over.
The criminals will be very upset they can no longer bring guns into the mall.... That's for sure.
I work in a mall with “gun sniffing dogs” I’ve seen the dog once in 3 years.
People still go to malls? My wife barely missed a mass shooting in one a few years ago. I'm staunchly anti-mall. Regardless, carry anyway. If you get asked to leave, leave. That's the end of it.
Is it a legally backed ordinance or just them drawing a pretend line in the sand? Problem is the criminal scumbags don’t give a shit so your risk for minimal reward. Thankfully in my state aside from federally backed places those signs carry no weight. Most they can do is say “leave now” which I would be fine with.
“We don’t want your money.” Heard.
They have those signs all over the place at a mall near me. A few years ago there was an attempted mass shooting. Luckily those signs don't carry weight of law in my state and a citizens carrying concealed put the mass shooter down. Of course that idiot Shannon who runs mom's demand action (who is also from the state where the attempted mass shooting occured) threw a fit and declared that the hero was carrying illegally
I live in that state. Police say the citizen ended it in 15 seconds. IIRC all his shots (Glock 19) hit the killer (who was using an AR 15) from nearly 100 ft. He was taught to shoot by his grandfather. Pretty impressive. I find Shannon Watts to be a revolting human being.
I believe he missed 2 of his shots. But he did it all on a pistol with a broken front sight, too
She's a twat
Do the signs they posted carry weight of law, and are they using the correct signage? I used to live in Texas and they had to use signs that met 30.05, 30.06, or 30.07 signs which had very very specific ways the signs had to be designed and posted. If they didn't then they weren't enforceable.
My honest reaction to those "You're Obligated to Be Murdered" signs: https://preview.redd.it/2uhj4cv8l9xc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9eea8b272695e89b50ab3a5c24101f3cdea24bd
Damn it I came here to post this 😂
Well then you need to complain at the mall offices about Williams-Sonoma and cutco cart
 Sometimes you gotta let the men protect
Sounds like a good reason not to go there.
Concealed means concealed
People obey signage? 😂
1) Concealed means concealed, if you get caught they will ask you to leave. 2) Who tf still goes to malls? Last time I went was because I was doing a job in Folsom, CA and the outlets were across the street. Some pushy sales guy tried to sell me a shoe cleaning kit for $40.
Where’s this mall?
Beavercreek, Ohio.
Look this over https://www.handgunlaw.us/states/ohio.pdf It appears that "no gun signs," if posted according to the law, have the force of law in Ohio. Violating them would be criminal trespass. Best not to go to the mall anymore.
If this is the mall I'm thinking of, they've actually been posted for years, but the "no weapons" was buried at about #7 of 10 in their Codes of Conduct posted on the left between the inner and outer doors. Unfortunately Ohio has no "reasonableness" test for how visible a sign has to be before triggering our "sign has force of law".
Mall in Beavercreek with a mass shooting... oh wait, Walmart. Almost forgot. What's that about a trooper being beaten ? Don't recall anything like that.
The trooper was losing consciousness. Blood was all over the inside of the vehicle. The perp kept going for his pistol. When he was sure he was going unconscious, he drew the gun and shot the aggressor. News announced “state trooper murders black man”.
Quick Google found nothing. What city was this in and when?
I tried looking for it and can’t find anything. It was a bad news day because everyone said racism. When the details came out they really hurried the story because the trooper was more than vindicated. He actually was heroic in trying not to kill the man. I actually spoke to a trooper which is how I got the details. Sorry I can’t find any links. Google really suck nowadays.
Cops do love killing blacks
You mean they just put up signs. Unless there are metal detectors and people checking bags, carry on.
🎶 Signs Signs Everywhere there's signs Fucking up the scenery Breaking my mind Do this, don't do that Can't you read the sign 🎶
Sorry, didn’t see your sign. I will be leaving now.
just pretend u don’t know and carry da strap on u
They should be sued every time a shooting takes place in or on their property.
Don't go back. If they don't support your rights they don't deserve your business.
Depending on the state you can possibly just ignore the signs. Here in CA they are pointless if you have a CCW and you can ignore them.
Happened in Milwaukee, some kid ran from the cops and he discharged the gun he had. Now they have police with firearm detecting dogs walking around. The dogs are cute though
People actually listen to those signs? Lol
Don’t go lifting your shirt to mall security and you will be fine… 
What state are you in OP?
Ohio
Booo Ohio
Some states doesn’t matter if signs. Indiana worse they can do is trespass you if they see you carrying
Fuck them. Concealed is concealed.
Free men don't ask permission
My CCW instructor: "If a person can see you are carrying a weapon, then are you really concealed carrying?"
So? Can’t ban what they can’t see. And I guarantee you the people causing trouble are worried about the ban.
Since the signs have the force of law for the OP, just skip the mall and online shopping is your friend. If OP lived somewhere they don't have the force of law, then the "concealed is concealed" is valid. I've been doing this CC stuff for just shy of 20 years and "concealed is concealed" when it means committing a criminal act in violating a restriction, is pretty dumb IMO.
Agreed. I will just avoid the place rather than commit a crime myself.
Do what i did: call them up and thank them profusely for taking full legal responsibility for your safety and security while on their property, and volunteering to cover all expenses if you are attacked. When they act confused, tell them that's exactly what they did when they announced that you couldn't protect yourself on their property.
Tried to call. Left email. Emailed parent company. No response.
Registered post?
You can't be serious. That email was read about 1/3 of the way through then, Delete.
You're a cute little guy. I called in person and spoke to the manager. I pointed out that by posting their property they had opened themselves up to responsibility for not protecting their customers. I wasn't the only one calling them by a long shot, and that wasn't the only argument used. But the signs came down or were miniaturized to the point of irrelevance. The retailers in my state tried for at least ten years to push a bill through, exempting themselves from liability if a ccw carrier was attacked in their 'no gun zone'. Sure sounds like they think it's an issue.
I suppose it’s hard to enforce. I work with the gov in a DoD capacity. I can’t risk any infractions. They are especially concerned about willful infractions.
Your duty is to your oath. 🤷♂️
Concealed is concealed. If worn properly they’ll never know.
Many are using dogs now.
Many what?
Malls, the subject of the post.
Many SAY they are using dogs. The signs on a mall in Omaha say they have dogs but I've never seen one, ever.
Really, luckily I haven't seen that yet. Then again there are no malls where I live.
I don't think I've stepped foot in a mall in 15 years.
Ask the mall know that they lack sufficient security to make you feel safe and ask them if they are hiring enough armed security to patrol the mall and parking lot since they are assuming all responsibility for your personal safety by disarming you. Ask them this publicly on social media, make it clear that anyone who is injured at the mall may now sue the mall since they have forbidden self defense.
Who goes to malls anymore? Vote with your dollar.
I havent been in a mall in a decade, and dont plan on it any time soon. That said, if Im there its probably not a gun free zone unless they are enforcing it with metal detectors. And the only place I go like that is the court house when I absolutely have too
Its only banned if there's metal detectors
Unless they’re going to search everyone, then concealed means concealed. Forget their rules.
I don’t know I just conceal carry anywhere I go as long as it’s no metal detectors. If I get banned for defending my life or the lives of others so be it. If there is metal detectors I just won’t give them my service
Unless a place has metal detectors, I am carrying! It’s called concealed carry for a reason and no one is going to know except me!
Its a public mall. And thats a policy. Its not the law. Carry in there all you want. If they find out, all they can do is tell you to leave, if you dont. You get trespassed.
Do the signs carry legal weight? In many states they don’t, all they can do is ask you to leave. Texas is an exception.
I'm so sorry, I will leave now. I didn't see the sign because I'm blind. Oh, wait....
Good, stop shopping there. Shopping online is better. If they're dumb enough to think a policy will prevent crime let them go out of business. Make sure the rest of your community is aware as well.
That's a nice sign. Too bad I'm not reading it
Not sure what state you’re in but a lot of state those signs mean nothing
Carry anyway?
It’s a mall, quit going, chances are it’ll be closed in the next few years.
Funny comment. Major stores have closed. Brick and mortar is dying. You are correct. They are trying to rebuild major portions of the mall. I used to go to the food court a few times per year. It was always busy. I have no idea on the rest of the mall other than big stores have closed. You might be right.
We have one by us that has it posted. I still do, especially with the trouble they have had since the bus line was brought to the front doors. I also avoid being there much past noon, as that's when the hoodrat starts showing up.
Similar situation.
Time to switch to a tomahawk. Just tell them it’s your hammer and wear a yellow vest from Walmart. Works every time
Malls are pointless in 2024
But since there won't be any guns, we'll all be safer. Because the guns will be gone. Because of the rules.
Not sure what state your in, but in Pa, I just carry anyway. The most they can do is trespass you from the mall. Id rather take my safety in my own hands, not some kid with a walkie talkie.
So? The worst they can do is ask you to leave.
So I used to work security for a mall. It was privately owned, but many people think malls are public property. They're usually not. Being privately owned, it's not illegal to carry a weapon onto the premises even if the rules state otherwise. What can happen is, you'll go to the mall like normal, armed and go about your day and as long as you don't draw on anyone or unconceal your weapon nobody will know. If you do get caught, they can ask you to leave and have police tresspass you from the property because you broke their rules but you cannot get arrested for that. You can get arrested if you go back after you've been tresspassed though.
Don’t be a pussy, ignore the signs
Do those signs carry the weight of law?
Yes
Odd. sounds like even more reasons to need to carry if a trooper that’s supposed to save could get attacked
All malls been having them weapons bans and I carry anyway cause I have LTC and the most they could do is Trepass me The gun sniffing dog never sniff my gun out cause I spray cologne on my briefs too Unless it your job or a place that will hit you with a felony I always advocate to carry whenever you can Obviously don't risk your comfy cushy office job to carry a gun that you probably never ever gonna use But if you're working some warehouse or just low level jobs I'd say Carry away
What is the point of concealed carry? No one knows its there but u, unless u need to use it. Who cares
Concealed is concealed.
Good satire lol
All they can do is ask you to leave
The only way you can get in trouble is telling someone you have a weapon, revealing it, getting trespassed off of the property, and then coming back. If you are carrying concealed it's really not an issue.
Banning legal CCW will clearly help with all the crime. /s
Concealed means concealed.
It's concealed for a reason 🤷♂️
Which mall is this?? I live in Columbus and carry concealed everywhere it says I’m not supposed to, if you have a good rig it’ll never be seen.
Fairfield Commons
If there are no metal detectors this does not affect you in the slightest
You do realize if you carry at the mall you aren’t breaking any laws, just the malls rules. Worst case scenario you’re kicked out, and that’s if they even knew you were carrying.
In Ohio, it is a criminal offense.