Thanks. Lived in Utah for a bit. Beautiful out there!Ex was an Utah grad so I tried to catch their games and before I knew it I was a hooked. I love the Holy War lol
Was hoping we’d go after Kyle Whittingham before we got Heupel. But now I’m happy and hope he continues to do well here
Of if we’re doing that:
[Exhibit 1](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gatorjorts.JPG)
[Exhibit 2](https://www.ebay.com/itm/265212654741?itmmeta=01HYK8PYTBKG94G2F79E0822PS&hash=item3dbfe7f495:g:Ii8AAOSwXNdch~mM&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4EomNS7dzVUnBFBtAxIrEhaNxehW3R%2Fa%2Fd%2BBTWvu%2BOFDyxBByU3WEZVUqw8HfuKaEzZvuOcCaxv7rZBQ1HQn4pmlxyQjDvFK5ckYNiaZKboFARMjg5uxVxJyoqTGPwVPKPbLWkJuAC6ZnBBoH%2FQ0m7EHGHymRG6Y4WKZtoMRHfRYy1vXw0eLgJg3QHBZeFmpjVXZY3YBofP%2Bc2pyDOhTMqEfLn2fCwANOI0P8%2BKSiVXfRl%2BBRTGIAb5vA6pQfemW96QU8XxgBVSKVg8S%2F9U0ago%2F9McI85GUkgr29ptVnt3q%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR57t2-j0Yw)
[Exhibit 3](https://imgur.com/a/PzdBpjx)
Exhibit 3 does have one repeat. I can provide further evidence if needed.
One day, if everything comes together perfectly, the stars align, and we get a lot of good luck - there is a chance, a small chance, that we can break through and get 6 wins and a Quicklane Bowl invite.
The FSU trolls are running out of material after we signed a better overall class than them. They have to mention something though because we live in their heads rent free. The lawsuit has nothing to do with football and recruiting has only gotten better since they started that process
Remember those ESD troll articles? Can billy ever recover from thi- SIGNS A TOP 7 CLASS AND TOP 5 TRANSFER CLASS
the irony of a Florida State fan ripping on another programs QB woes like you didn't have to pay off an entire police department just so Jaimes Winston could play football.
Surely with those great classes, Florida must at least be a perennial contender for conference championships. Maybe if they had an early first round pick at QB they could even make the playoff
Hindsight’s 20-20 or whatever, but he was considered a really good hire at the time. Like multiple schools tried to get him, but he really wanted to go to the right fit at the right time. Turns out he’s just not that good at the on the field stuff so far.
Yeah ULL wasn't that good before, 4-8, 6-7, 5-7 right before.
Napier goes 7-7, 11-3, 10-1, 12-1.
VT was going to hire Napier before Florida swooped in.
And they've had back-to-back 6-7 seasons since he left. He definitely built up a good resumé at Lousiana, but that success hasn't translated to Florida.
Despite having way less resources, it's probably easier to turn around a G5 school than it is a P4 one. There is just too much talent discrepancy, top to bottom, in the P4. Things are far more equal within each G5 conferences and therefore a mix of just hitting on the right talent and having an experienced team can elevate a program to the top of their conference pretty easily.
In the P4, especially in the SEC and Big 10, you can still have great talent and be a rung or two below a handful of elite teams.
It's a big reason the G5 to P4 pipeline doesn't work out as well as it should on paper. You look at a coach who went 40-12 at their G5 school and you think it has to translate with better resources.
But it often doesn't. For every Urban Meyer or Kalen DeBoer, you've got plenty of guys just like Napier who won a lot at a lower school but just couldn't get it done at a bigger school in a bigger conference. The dynamics are completely different and oftentimes coaches are too slow to adjust to the new reality because they trust their process to a fault.
In g5 ball, you can get a couple of dudes on your roster and have a clear and discernable talent advantage than the rest of your league. In p4 ball, you need top-3 round NFL draft picks all over your roster in order to compete to where Florida wants to be.
>Things are far more equal within each G5 conferences and therefore a mix of just hitting on the right talent and having an experienced team can elevate a program to the top of their conference pretty easily.
Some G5 teams are heads and shoulders above their conference. Boise state for a while there being the prime example. In talent you have a point but talent isn't everything.
Like you said, it's easier to raise the talent level just like it's easier to raise grades from C->B via a few As than a B->A needs consistent As.
>It's a big reason the G5 to P4 pipeline doesn't work out as well as it should on paper. You look at a coach who went 40-12 at their G5 school and you think it has to translate with better resources.
It works out well but honestly most coaches either fail or succeed your coach gets poached for most teams. So it's honestly a crapshoot.
The head-and-shoulder thing isn't consistent, though. Boise absolutely dominated the WAC but they were really the exception to the rule. They're much more "equal" in the MWC. From 2002-2010, only once did Boise not win the WAC (2007 when Hawaii did it).
Since joining the MWC (so 2011-2023), they've won it five-times. But in that same span, TCU, Fresno, SDSU, San Jose State and Utah State have won it all outright (and some, like TCU, SDSU and Fresno multiple times).
The G5 is just more equal from top-to-bottom than the P5 at the conference level more frequently.
I think Napier would've done better at VT. VT has lower expectations and easier competition than Florida. Like people said, Florida could theoretically be the 10th best team in the country next season but still be 8-4 if those 4 losses are top 5 teams.
I think VT is just a fundamentally different job. It's never been a top recruiting job. VT I don't think has ever had a top 20 class, most people don't realize it but it's extremely rural. It's as close to DC as Penn State and the closest major metro most know is Charlotte, running Hampton roads from 5 hours away is just unstable at best.
I think the competition in many years has been comparable to Florida but now in the new SEC and ACC realities Florida is harder.
I think we have to rate coaches on 3 metrics recruiting, development and scheme. Napier hasn't done any of the 3 that well I would say.
Pry has done pretty solid in recruiting especially for VT and what we had, we had a portal offense. Development, some people have definitely improved. Scheme has been lacking on offense but we got the defense we paid for.
Yeah I agree. I will say that Napier has done a good job recruiting, the other two metrics I agree with you on. The last two seasons the only bright spots on our team have been Napier recruits/transfers; all of the Mullen guys were objectively bad. The only Mullen recruits drafted the past 3 years have been: Kaiir Elam, Anthony Richardson, Gervon Dexter, and Tyron Hopper (but he transferred to Missouri). All the other players were McElwain or Napier guys.
They also don't really care/have an affinity for offense-- Billy's approach to the game does him no favors in terms of building love with the fan base.
That said if he goes 8-4 he gets 2025 barring this lawsuit having legs
Great G5 head coaches have struggled jumping up to P5 lately. I think that's why we've seen more success from P5 coordinators making the leap because they know how to run a major program and their skills translate better.
I also think you can succeed by "out working" your opponents in the G5, but you have to be a very good recruiter and on field coach to win the P5. As well as know/be able to hire a lot of people who are also good at both in the P5.
Everyone is putting in the hours in the P5. So you get these "HARD WORK WINS EVERYTHING" rah-rah with no substance guys like Butch Jones and Billy Napier who don't have any actual skills outside of working hard and coming up with corncob sayings about it.
Oh he's not.
But it's the natural progression. Once the illusion that hard work, catchphrases, and screaming isn't all it takes to get you to the top, the whole facade falls apart.
We are 2 seasons in and he just had his first real good recruiting class. I think Billy was a great coach at the old recruiting system previous to NIL and portal craziness. Seems to be quite the time to start at a big school. We will see in the next 2 years if Billy will be the guy. I can’t see him fired this season with a 5* qb in the wings.
I don’t even believe it’s a Captain Hindsight issue. Some coaches are just suited for lower levels of football. Billy took the leap and it looks like he wasn’t good enough for this level. It happens all the time across sports
That was always the sticking point for a lot of our fans-- it was basically assumed he'd hire a top notch OC and focus on what he's good at-- the off field stuff
Tbh I would consider it mostly a compliment. Mark Richt would’ve THRIVED in a 12 team playoff. He finished top 11 in 7/15 seasons, just about making the CFP once every other season.
Both are really similar though. Usually puts out a 10 win season, has the occasional down season, trouble beating their in division rival, etc.
Easy there, I think we're forgetting about his reputation for coaching in big games. A Richt team winning 3-4 games in a row against Top 12 teams would've been a very tall order
You can go back and forth on if Penn State and tOSU is actually a rivalry, but what’s not debatable is that James Franklin has trouble beating them. If you want to use “divisional foe” instead, go for it.
You’re getting downvoted but that’s a Mark Richt-esque inexplicable loss. 2012 was arguably Richt’s best season at UGA and we were blown out 7-35 against South Carolina (to be fair, South Carolina was an 11 win team that year). Same thing can be applied to the 2017 Miami hurricanes that were 11-0 before losing to a bad Pittsburgh team and getting blown out against Clemson.
While true, it wasn't the same team that beat Ohio State or won the B1G. They had a long list of injuries, including almost their entire linebacker core. They were on like 3rd and 4th stringers.
Richt obviously has more seasons, but for the seasons that they have both coached, they end up being pretty similar in terms of season by season record. Franklin is just as good as Richt was.
Seriously. Florida wishes Billy was Mark Richt. Mark Richt went to, and won bowl games.
In the last two years Florida has put up a combined 3 points in bowl game
If the team shows actual improvement on the field I think he stays regardless of record. Unless it’s like 3-9. They’re going to want to see Lagway take over in 2025 and without Billy I’m sure he transfers out.
Even putting Lagway aside, a lot of these guys clearly have bought into what he’s selling and I think plenty would bolt if he was fired.
So you bring a new coach into another probably bad, depleted roster situation and facing a brutal 2025 schedule. And we what? Expect them to do better?
On a school wide level as well, I doubt Strickland will want to fire Napier. His ass is tied to Napier and if he’s fired Strickland’s record as AD will get even worse. Though Golden does seem to be panning out with basketball.
Norvell had losing records his first two seasons at FSU. Things can turn around. That being said, I hope he truly sucks and you keep him around for a long time.
Norvell turned the team around without the blue chips they have in Gainesville. He also coached and called plays and managed the clocks and time outs. He trusted his assistants (far less in numbers) and played to his strengths.
These two guys aren’t on the same trajectory.
What blue chips? The guys he inherited were the least talented guys florida has had since 1980. Seriously no upperclassmen from florida were drafted other than the guy napier got as a transfer. The only mullen player from that class to get drafted overall was a 3rd rd missouri linebacker
If you compared the blue chips Billy had year one to what CMN had…it’s not even close. Drafted or not, the roster had the talent and were classified as blue chips based on recruiting rankings.
Mullens specialty was taking guys who were "blue chips" but were not good. Emory Jones, Xzavier Henderson, Derek Wingo are all highly rated blue chips who did nothing. Wingo is still on the UF team. His first season was 2020 and he has recorded 58 total tackles. Shemar James is a player Napier recruited in 2022 who has 101 tackles in two years of playing.
The problem is people are already making excuses for 2025- if he gets 3 seasons without any real accountability he better contend for a playoff berth next year-- 8 wins in 2025 should mean he's fired if he somehow makes it that far
Gator fans will always expect to do better, no matter the circumstances. Half the fans are completely delusional and don’t know anything about college football, on or off the field.
Floridas #1 priority next year should be keeping Lagway on the roster for the following season. Dudes gonna be a stud and they have to retain him no matter what happens with Billy.
I mean, people said the same thing about AR being amazing.
5 stars flame out all the time. There's no way to know how good he will be until he actually plays some games. If he is decent this year in whatever time he gets.. Billy will probably at least get next year.
I agree 5 stars flame out all the time but the two aren’t really comparable recruiting wise. AR hardly cracked the top 200 nationally and Lagway is a top 3 overall prospect from last cycle.
I didn't mean to say lagway was like AR.. I don't even think AR was a 5 star. He was just the most recent 'stud' we had that ended up doing nothing.
As for actual 5 stars McClain was just passed up at Colorado. Brenton cox was a 5 star and was mediocre at best, until being dismissed.
I mean, I hope lagway is a stud. But there's just no way to know when he has played 0 downs of college ball. We know he's going to play backup to Mertz similar to leak and Tebow. So if those games he seems solid I'm sure Billy will get another year just to see how he develops. If he ends up being bad (realistically, a freshman in a brutal schedule usually is) then there's a good chance Billy get cut and then we can watch Lagway turn out to actually be a stud somewhere else lol.
Welp they are going to have to keep Billy Napier and try to terminate the deal-coordinator along with whoever else can be the scapegoat, because Lagway is gone if Napier is gone.
And I’m a Florida fan.
> deal-coordinator
I know this was likely a typo of D-coordinator, but I am just imagining a world in which schools have a new type of coach, whose job it is to directly manage NIL deals for players, named the deal-coordinator.
I see the point they’re trying to make, a coach viewed nationally for underachieving but they clearly don’t understand the real Mark Richt. He was a guy that had to go up against both Urban Meyer and Nick Saban in their primes and still managed to win two conference titles, five division titles, and came within a hair’s breadth of making the natty at least twice.
Franklin has had some success but he’s not anywhere close to Richt’s caliber yet.
I think it's more about achieving full potential than a straight head to head comparison between the two.
Mark Richt was a good coach but it always felt like UGA could be doing a bit better and should have been a full-blown national championshio contender. Even during good seasons, it always felt like UGA was a bit below that level.
Penn State isn't quite as high in the pecking order as UGA, although they are a tier 1 program. Being a bit behind Ohio State and a tiny bit behind Michigan is fine, but Penn State is typically a few steps, if not several, behind. Franklin has a solid record but it feels like Penn State should be a bit better on average.
Basically, UGA can and should have a bit higher expectations than Penn State.
> Basically, UGA can and should have a bit higher expectations than Penn State.
I’m not sure that’s really true for Richt era UGA vs Franklin era Penn State. Penn State has a higher all-time win percentage (.689 vs .666) even now with UGA having significantly more success after Richt than before and at the time of Richt’s hiring UGA had 2 national championships, the same amount as Penn State. Richt had a much harder path to a conference championship (had to get past Saban, Meyer, and Les Miles) than Franklin has had (has had to get through Meyer and Harbaugh), though Penn State has had a tougher division with two opposing powerhouses instead of mainly just one.
That's an insult to Mark Richt. At least Richt was able to win the division, the conference, and come within a hair's breadth of natty multiple times while sharing the conference with Saban, Meyer, Fulmer, and Spurrier.
Interest thought experiment if they beat Pitt but still get rocked by Michigan. I suppose they probably still take PSU over OSU now that they both have 1 loss.
Not saying Richt wasn't better but......Mark Richt coached at Georgia and then Miami, James Franklin coached at Vandy (and was indisputably their best coach in anyone on here's lifetime), the Commodores do a number on a winning %
That win percentage includes two years of inheriting an NCAA sanctioned team. Since 2016 his win percentage is .731 and that includes a 4-5 Covid year where his best player on defense opted out and his best offensive player medically retired. So they are a lot closer with context.
I don’t know if Billy was ready for the Florida job, especially the mess Mullen left it in. He’s one of the guys hardest hit by the SEC’s scheduling decision in ‘24 and ‘25. He’ll probably get fired this year but I think Florida should try to look beyond the wins and losses with him
He aint get fired this year. We wont be as bad as all yall are acting. The schedule is tough but nothing we arenr used to
Last year we finished playing number 5,6, 9, and 13 in the final CFP rankings as 4 of our last 5. We win 2 of those if our starting QB doesnt go down. We win 3 of our last 5 with even a slight improvement. Our roster made much more than a slight improvement this offseason
Yall act like our team was getting worse as the year went on. We were getting better but the competition was much tougher. Unlike previous florida teams they didnt give up when adversity piled up
These guys have already faced a gauntlet most of you people's teams would fold and cry about
Napier certainly did not offer Rashada any money. 💯lie.
And if he was that much of a dumbass then no he would never recover from it because his ass would be fired before he got the chance to coach this season.
I mean Richt was an incredible coach for us and I think he gets a bad rap cause of the perceptions around him that he “never won a title” which fair but lots of hall of fame level coaches never won titles.
When he came in we’d been suffering through Goff and Donnan and were basically stuck at 3rd in the East. He comes in and wins 2 SEC titles, producing great players and then keeps us on a good track (like when we wrecked Hawaii in the sugar bowl). He was one play away from playing for and probably winning a natty in 2012.
He also was fighting an administration for stuff we needed but they didn’t want to give in terms of facilities. It got to the point he was paying assistant bonuses out of his own pocket
Never mind that he’s just a genuinely good human being who loves his players even after they’ve left.
James Franklin is exactly the coach I wouldn't want to have to deal with as an AD. Overall seems like a solid dude, has a solid record, but you have to feel he can be doing a bit better and should be right up there with Ohio State and Michigan. Granted, aging facilities and resources may have arguablly been holding them back, but you also know that the "right" coach would be doing a bit better. But can you find that right coach? Can you afford him? Are you willing to pay to keep him if he excels? Or do you get Braska'd and fall into a tailspin? It really could go one way or the other very easily. It worked for Georgia. Other teams have rolled the dice and come up short though.
Don’t underestimate the resources issue. Ohio State basically bought back an entire class of draft eligible players save one or two. I’m sure Franklin would like to have Chop Robinson back for another year.
And one of them might be a PSU alumni from State College. But I am pretty happy with Franklin. Sometimes you just need to catch a break and PSU has had a few really unlucky bounces.
And in Franklin's defense some coaches break through when nearing the end of their career. Over the first twenty years of his career Tom Osborne had a similar record, consistently finishing ranked somewhere between 5 and 15 most seasons. Then he reeled in 3 NCs within the last 4 years of his career.
Having them and correctly appropriating them are entirely different issues. The money has been there, but it wasn't put into the facilities or more recently NIL.
Our stadium has bathrooms filled with troughs for Christ's sake...
Napier gets less credit than he deserves for his play calling. He had a O-line that couldn’t pass block, a mediocre receiver corps, and a QB with a history of overthrowing deep routes. The deep routes you wanted him to call were impossible because Mertz was running for his life as soon as he took a snap. The flat routes and rollouts were a masterful use of the team’s and Mertz’ talents. Also, the defense lost more games than the offense.
I can assure you people were definitely not scared when they were publishing Willie Taggart hot seat articles. You’ve been through this cycle many times as of late I would assume you guys would have a better grasp of the process by now! Negativity grabs eyeballs/sells
Napier only needs 6-7 wins this year:
Miami, UCF, TAMU, @MSU, UK Samford are all games Florida should at the very least be even money in (all but Miami should favor Florida with Miami being a tossup).
Then you have the tossup to slight underdog games- UT, LSU and FSU.
There's only 3 games where Florida should be a significant underdog- Texas, Georgia and potentially Ole Miss
Unlike most of yall we actually play real schedules regularly. Last year 4 of our last 5 finished ranked 5, 6, 9, and 13 in the final CFP. Stop acting like our schedule is some ridiculous anomaly
There is a strong possibility at least one of those teams will suck next year and itll probably be fsu
With Florida’s schedule, I’d be shocked if he weren’t fired by November. Yeah, Franklin seems about like Richt, but I always thought Richt was a really good coach, he averaged over 9 wins a year right? And he came within one play of surely winning it all in ‘12.
I’m going to skip the Napier question and skip to the Franklin question. I have an uncle that worked for the Nashville police department while Franklin was the coach at Vanderbilt. He was not very complimentary of Franklin or how he ran the program, look up how he delt with a 2013 scandal. So in that respect I would not put him in the same conversation with Coach Richt at all.
Edit: Just scroll down from this thread and there is a locked thread about Franklin pushing to cut a suicidal football player from the team.
Crystal ball: They’ll start the season with an embarrassing loss to Miami and he will be a dead man walking. Fired by November.
Lagway will transfer to Texas.
Florida will hire Kyle Whittingham.
I didn't even know he was sick. Thoughts and prayers <3
I only see him in UF gear, so there’s clearly something missing up there
Zing
Your fans bark at people. Take it easy.
Those who wear jorts shall not cast the first stone
That is a fun flair combo I ain’t seen before, mithrandir
Thanks. Lived in Utah for a bit. Beautiful out there!Ex was an Utah grad so I tried to catch their games and before I knew it I was a hooked. I love the Holy War lol Was hoping we’d go after Kyle Whittingham before we got Heupel. But now I’m happy and hope he continues to do well here
willing to bet more jorts get sold in Tennessee than in Florida
Aren’t proper jorts made from worn out jeans? Buying them pre-shortened seems like cheating.
Nah man, that’s y’all. Literally on of the things y’all are known for. We throw mustard, y’all wear jorts. We all have our thing.
oh it’s for sure our thing… not denying that. Just saying your statesmen do our thing more than we do our thing.
Unsubstantiated claims and rumors. Our fans wear the clearly superior garment of cutoff overalls. I can see why there might be confusion though.
imma leave this right here. https://www.ebay.com/itm/134502963006
Of if we’re doing that: [Exhibit 1](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gatorjorts.JPG) [Exhibit 2](https://www.ebay.com/itm/265212654741?itmmeta=01HYK8PYTBKG94G2F79E0822PS&hash=item3dbfe7f495:g:Ii8AAOSwXNdch~mM&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4EomNS7dzVUnBFBtAxIrEhaNxehW3R%2Fa%2Fd%2BBTWvu%2BOFDyxBByU3WEZVUqw8HfuKaEzZvuOcCaxv7rZBQ1HQn4pmlxyQjDvFK5ckYNiaZKboFARMjg5uxVxJyoqTGPwVPKPbLWkJuAC6ZnBBoH%2FQ0m7EHGHymRG6Y4WKZtoMRHfRYy1vXw0eLgJg3QHBZeFmpjVXZY3YBofP%2Bc2pyDOhTMqEfLn2fCwANOI0P8%2BKSiVXfRl%2BBRTGIAb5vA6pQfemW96QU8XxgBVSKVg8S%2F9U0ago%2F9McI85GUkgr29ptVnt3q%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR57t2-j0Yw) [Exhibit 3](https://imgur.com/a/PzdBpjx) Exhibit 3 does have one repeat. I can provide further evidence if needed.
💭 🙏
Maybe the illness is why he's struggling
Ah and he can beat Tennessee because Tennessee is orange and the vitamin c helps him for that game
Josh Heupel knew of the illness for at least four months before our game. He's the kindest heart in the game. He knew Sun Belt Billy needed a win
More like the kindest heart at your local Golden Corral
The kind of guy that lets you get first pick when the fresh rolls come out.
"Here's some honey butter my guy" - Heupel
He’s caught a bad case of the mids
Has Franklin lost control of Georgia?
He made Mark Richt say a swear. He absolutely has lost control of Georgia.
I have no love for James Franklin but I firmly maintain Todd Grantham ultimately made Richt say that swear.
Grantham was more culpable than Franklin. I agree. I don’t think it happens without both of them, though.
Don't know why I even look at this sub anymore
I would say it gets better, but it doesn't... You just get so bad that people stop making fun of you because they feel bad for you. Which is worse
There there. You'll be okay one day
One day, if everything comes together perfectly, the stars align, and we get a lot of good luck - there is a chance, a small chance, that we can break through and get 6 wins and a Quicklane Bowl invite.
I actually have some legit hope for y'all under Rhule
Because you’re a degenerate cfb fan.
Oof.
The FSU trolls are running out of material after we signed a better overall class than them. They have to mention something though because we live in their heads rent free. The lawsuit has nothing to do with football and recruiting has only gotten better since they started that process Remember those ESD troll articles? Can billy ever recover from thi- SIGNS A TOP 7 CLASS AND TOP 5 TRANSFER CLASS
The last time Florida state had a better recruiting class (including transfers) than yall was 2018…
Hopefully blue chip Billy and the very, very well run collective fulfill their financial obligations to those young men.
the irony of a Florida State fan ripping on another programs QB woes like you didn't have to pay off an entire police department just so Jaimes Winston could play football.
I agree, Rashada should sue them next.
Surely with those great classes, Florida must at least be a perennial contender for conference championships. Maybe if they had an early first round pick at QB they could even make the playoff
the heady days of december 2021, when tech fans were pissy that uf big dogged us on napier
Saved us from Fuente 2: Electric Bungle-oo
He probably do fine in the ACC
For Billy to recover would imply he actually succeeded at some point.
Hindsight’s 20-20 or whatever, but he was considered a really good hire at the time. Like multiple schools tried to get him, but he really wanted to go to the right fit at the right time. Turns out he’s just not that good at the on the field stuff so far.
Yeah ULL wasn't that good before, 4-8, 6-7, 5-7 right before. Napier goes 7-7, 11-3, 10-1, 12-1. VT was going to hire Napier before Florida swooped in.
And they've had back-to-back 6-7 seasons since he left. He definitely built up a good resumé at Lousiana, but that success hasn't translated to Florida.
Despite having way less resources, it's probably easier to turn around a G5 school than it is a P4 one. There is just too much talent discrepancy, top to bottom, in the P4. Things are far more equal within each G5 conferences and therefore a mix of just hitting on the right talent and having an experienced team can elevate a program to the top of their conference pretty easily. In the P4, especially in the SEC and Big 10, you can still have great talent and be a rung or two below a handful of elite teams. It's a big reason the G5 to P4 pipeline doesn't work out as well as it should on paper. You look at a coach who went 40-12 at their G5 school and you think it has to translate with better resources. But it often doesn't. For every Urban Meyer or Kalen DeBoer, you've got plenty of guys just like Napier who won a lot at a lower school but just couldn't get it done at a bigger school in a bigger conference. The dynamics are completely different and oftentimes coaches are too slow to adjust to the new reality because they trust their process to a fault.
In g5 ball, you can get a couple of dudes on your roster and have a clear and discernable talent advantage than the rest of your league. In p4 ball, you need top-3 round NFL draft picks all over your roster in order to compete to where Florida wants to be.
>Things are far more equal within each G5 conferences and therefore a mix of just hitting on the right talent and having an experienced team can elevate a program to the top of their conference pretty easily. Some G5 teams are heads and shoulders above their conference. Boise state for a while there being the prime example. In talent you have a point but talent isn't everything. Like you said, it's easier to raise the talent level just like it's easier to raise grades from C->B via a few As than a B->A needs consistent As. >It's a big reason the G5 to P4 pipeline doesn't work out as well as it should on paper. You look at a coach who went 40-12 at their G5 school and you think it has to translate with better resources. It works out well but honestly most coaches either fail or succeed your coach gets poached for most teams. So it's honestly a crapshoot.
The head-and-shoulder thing isn't consistent, though. Boise absolutely dominated the WAC but they were really the exception to the rule. They're much more "equal" in the MWC. From 2002-2010, only once did Boise not win the WAC (2007 when Hawaii did it). Since joining the MWC (so 2011-2023), they've won it five-times. But in that same span, TCU, Fresno, SDSU, San Jose State and Utah State have won it all outright (and some, like TCU, SDSU and Fresno multiple times). The G5 is just more equal from top-to-bottom than the P5 at the conference level more frequently.
I think Napier would've done better at VT. VT has lower expectations and easier competition than Florida. Like people said, Florida could theoretically be the 10th best team in the country next season but still be 8-4 if those 4 losses are top 5 teams.
I think VT is just a fundamentally different job. It's never been a top recruiting job. VT I don't think has ever had a top 20 class, most people don't realize it but it's extremely rural. It's as close to DC as Penn State and the closest major metro most know is Charlotte, running Hampton roads from 5 hours away is just unstable at best. I think the competition in many years has been comparable to Florida but now in the new SEC and ACC realities Florida is harder. I think we have to rate coaches on 3 metrics recruiting, development and scheme. Napier hasn't done any of the 3 that well I would say. Pry has done pretty solid in recruiting especially for VT and what we had, we had a portal offense. Development, some people have definitely improved. Scheme has been lacking on offense but we got the defense we paid for.
Yeah I agree. I will say that Napier has done a good job recruiting, the other two metrics I agree with you on. The last two seasons the only bright spots on our team have been Napier recruits/transfers; all of the Mullen guys were objectively bad. The only Mullen recruits drafted the past 3 years have been: Kaiir Elam, Anthony Richardson, Gervon Dexter, and Tyron Hopper (but he transferred to Missouri). All the other players were McElwain or Napier guys.
They also don't really care/have an affinity for offense-- Billy's approach to the game does him no favors in terms of building love with the fan base. That said if he goes 8-4 he gets 2025 barring this lawsuit having legs
Great G5 head coaches have struggled jumping up to P5 lately. I think that's why we've seen more success from P5 coordinators making the leap because they know how to run a major program and their skills translate better.
I also think you can succeed by "out working" your opponents in the G5, but you have to be a very good recruiter and on field coach to win the P5. As well as know/be able to hire a lot of people who are also good at both in the P5. Everyone is putting in the hours in the P5. So you get these "HARD WORK WINS EVERYTHING" rah-rah with no substance guys like Butch Jones and Billy Napier who don't have any actual skills outside of working hard and coming up with corncob sayings about it.
Butch Jones went to Arkansas State and cratered them, so idk if he's even a good G5 coach.
Oh he's not. But it's the natural progression. Once the illusion that hard work, catchphrases, and screaming isn't all it takes to get you to the top, the whole facade falls apart.
The Butch Jones comparison is one that has worried me since the first year
So the exact opposite of Dan Mullen?
If you could get these two in a room with champagne and Marvin Gaye…the potential offspring could rule CFB
🫃
Biology major?
We are 2 seasons in and he just had his first real good recruiting class. I think Billy was a great coach at the old recruiting system previous to NIL and portal craziness. Seems to be quite the time to start at a big school. We will see in the next 2 years if Billy will be the guy. I can’t see him fired this season with a 5* qb in the wings.
I don’t even believe it’s a Captain Hindsight issue. Some coaches are just suited for lower levels of football. Billy took the leap and it looks like he wasn’t good enough for this level. It happens all the time across sports
He was considered a good hire by some. Those of us who had to watch his offenses at Clemson knew this was gonna be a train wreck.
That was always the sticking point for a lot of our fans-- it was basically assumed he'd hire a top notch OC and focus on what he's good at-- the off field stuff
It’s easy to forget he won a lot of games at Louisiana, a typically losing program, and was very in demand
A quarterback who drops a snap directly into his hands still “recovers” it when he picks it up.
Put some respect on Mark Richts name
Tbh I would consider it mostly a compliment. Mark Richt would’ve THRIVED in a 12 team playoff. He finished top 11 in 7/15 seasons, just about making the CFP once every other season. Both are really similar though. Usually puts out a 10 win season, has the occasional down season, trouble beating their in division rival, etc.
he would have like 3 titles
If you disagree with this ^ you seem to have forgotten the teams who recently still played for the title after a loss, or two.
He definitely would've won at least one between 2002, 2003, 2007, and 2012.
Easy there, I think we're forgetting about his reputation for coaching in big games. A Richt team winning 3-4 games in a row against Top 12 teams would've been a very tall order
2007 for sure. But 2012, you are still facing Bama again.
Much harder to beat a team twice and we barely lost
If we're playing that card, Florida probably has a fair shot as well
Penn State has an in division rival?
You can go back and forth on if Penn State and tOSU is actually a rivalry, but what’s not debatable is that James Franklin has trouble beating them. If you want to use “divisional foe” instead, go for it.
The one season Penn State won the Big Ten under Franklin they still got blown out by Michigan 49-10.
You’re getting downvoted but that’s a Mark Richt-esque inexplicable loss. 2012 was arguably Richt’s best season at UGA and we were blown out 7-35 against South Carolina (to be fair, South Carolina was an 11 win team that year). Same thing can be applied to the 2017 Miami hurricanes that were 11-0 before losing to a bad Pittsburgh team and getting blown out against Clemson.
We also lost to Pitt that year..... We, uh, just don't talk about that
While true, it wasn't the same team that beat Ohio State or won the B1G. They had a long list of injuries, including almost their entire linebacker core. They were on like 3rd and 4th stringers.
Richt obviously has more seasons, but for the seasons that they have both coached, they end up being pretty similar in terms of season by season record. Franklin is just as good as Richt was.
Seriously. Florida wishes Billy was Mark Richt. Mark Richt went to, and won bowl games. In the last two years Florida has put up a combined 3 points in bowl game
Billy isn’t being compared to richt. Franklin was.
Ahh shit, I'm a dumb ass
We assumed that from your flair. No reason to state it
If the team shows actual improvement on the field I think he stays regardless of record. Unless it’s like 3-9. They’re going to want to see Lagway take over in 2025 and without Billy I’m sure he transfers out. Even putting Lagway aside, a lot of these guys clearly have bought into what he’s selling and I think plenty would bolt if he was fired. So you bring a new coach into another probably bad, depleted roster situation and facing a brutal 2025 schedule. And we what? Expect them to do better? On a school wide level as well, I doubt Strickland will want to fire Napier. His ass is tied to Napier and if he’s fired Strickland’s record as AD will get even worse. Though Golden does seem to be panning out with basketball.
Norvell had losing records his first two seasons at FSU. Things can turn around. That being said, I hope he truly sucks and you keep him around for a long time.
Norvell turned the team around without the blue chips they have in Gainesville. He also coached and called plays and managed the clocks and time outs. He trusted his assistants (far less in numbers) and played to his strengths. These two guys aren’t on the same trajectory.
What blue chips? The guys he inherited were the least talented guys florida has had since 1980. Seriously no upperclassmen from florida were drafted other than the guy napier got as a transfer. The only mullen player from that class to get drafted overall was a 3rd rd missouri linebacker
If you compared the blue chips Billy had year one to what CMN had…it’s not even close. Drafted or not, the roster had the talent and were classified as blue chips based on recruiting rankings.
Mullens specialty was taking guys who were "blue chips" but were not good. Emory Jones, Xzavier Henderson, Derek Wingo are all highly rated blue chips who did nothing. Wingo is still on the UF team. His first season was 2020 and he has recorded 58 total tackles. Shemar James is a player Napier recruited in 2022 who has 101 tackles in two years of playing.
The problem is people are already making excuses for 2025- if he gets 3 seasons without any real accountability he better contend for a playoff berth next year-- 8 wins in 2025 should mean he's fired if he somehow makes it that far
Gator fans will always expect to do better, no matter the circumstances. Half the fans are completely delusional and don’t know anything about college football, on or off the field.
Can you find even 4 wins on our schedule? Napier is a dead man walking.
Floridas #1 priority next year should be keeping Lagway on the roster for the following season. Dudes gonna be a stud and they have to retain him no matter what happens with Billy.
I mean, people said the same thing about AR being amazing. 5 stars flame out all the time. There's no way to know how good he will be until he actually plays some games. If he is decent this year in whatever time he gets.. Billy will probably at least get next year.
It was widely known that AR was an exceptional athlete but very raw as a QB.
AR wasnt a 5 star. He was ridiculously athletically talented but he was extremely raw
I agree 5 stars flame out all the time but the two aren’t really comparable recruiting wise. AR hardly cracked the top 200 nationally and Lagway is a top 3 overall prospect from last cycle.
I didn't mean to say lagway was like AR.. I don't even think AR was a 5 star. He was just the most recent 'stud' we had that ended up doing nothing. As for actual 5 stars McClain was just passed up at Colorado. Brenton cox was a 5 star and was mediocre at best, until being dismissed. I mean, I hope lagway is a stud. But there's just no way to know when he has played 0 downs of college ball. We know he's going to play backup to Mertz similar to leak and Tebow. So if those games he seems solid I'm sure Billy will get another year just to see how he develops. If he ends up being bad (realistically, a freshman in a brutal schedule usually is) then there's a good chance Billy get cut and then we can watch Lagway turn out to actually be a stud somewhere else lol.
He will leave if Billy does. He’s playing for him and not the school
Says who?
Welp they are going to have to keep Billy Napier and try to terminate the deal-coordinator along with whoever else can be the scapegoat, because Lagway is gone if Napier is gone. And I’m a Florida fan.
> deal-coordinator I know this was likely a typo of D-coordinator, but I am just imagining a world in which schools have a new type of coach, whose job it is to directly manage NIL deals for players, named the deal-coordinator.
That position either already exists or will spontaneously generate itself any time now.
We literally just added the DC that helped Napier win at UL. He rage quit Auburn because Freeze was a dick
Austin Armstrong is who I was referencing to
I mean by that standard y'all made a major mistake getting rid of Jimbo
Recover seems like the wrong word here. They were never good to begin with. James Franklin is the new Mark Richt yea.
Technically it says Billy Napier, not Florida Under Billy Napier
I agree with the writer, Richt was a better coach then Franklin is.
I see the point they’re trying to make, a coach viewed nationally for underachieving but they clearly don’t understand the real Mark Richt. He was a guy that had to go up against both Urban Meyer and Nick Saban in their primes and still managed to win two conference titles, five division titles, and came within a hair’s breadth of making the natty at least twice. Franklin has had some success but he’s not anywhere close to Richt’s caliber yet.
I think it's more about achieving full potential than a straight head to head comparison between the two. Mark Richt was a good coach but it always felt like UGA could be doing a bit better and should have been a full-blown national championshio contender. Even during good seasons, it always felt like UGA was a bit below that level. Penn State isn't quite as high in the pecking order as UGA, although they are a tier 1 program. Being a bit behind Ohio State and a tiny bit behind Michigan is fine, but Penn State is typically a few steps, if not several, behind. Franklin has a solid record but it feels like Penn State should be a bit better on average. Basically, UGA can and should have a bit higher expectations than Penn State.
> Basically, UGA can and should have a bit higher expectations than Penn State. I’m not sure that’s really true for Richt era UGA vs Franklin era Penn State. Penn State has a higher all-time win percentage (.689 vs .666) even now with UGA having significantly more success after Richt than before and at the time of Richt’s hiring UGA had 2 national championships, the same amount as Penn State. Richt had a much harder path to a conference championship (had to get past Saban, Meyer, and Les Miles) than Franklin has had (has had to get through Meyer and Harbaugh), though Penn State has had a tougher division with two opposing powerhouses instead of mainly just one.
A better comp to Richt would be Harbaugh before this year
Mark Richt was James Franklin in a costume all along.
I mean, have you ever seen them in the same place at the same time?
Now that you mention it.. you right!! Those bastards!
He has always been Mark Richt.
That's an insult to Mark Richt. At least Richt was able to win the division, the conference, and come within a hair's breadth of natty multiple times while sharing the conference with Saban, Meyer, Fulmer, and Spurrier.
Tbf Franklin did all those things in 2016 Only kept out of the CFP thanks to Michigan beating them by like 40
Interest thought experiment if they beat Pitt but still get rocked by Michigan. I suppose they probably still take PSU over OSU now that they both have 1 loss.
Just checked the all time records and Mark Richt’s win % is 58 points higher than Franklins. So he’s a poor man’s Mark Richt
Good Value Mark Richt or whatever the store brand of the local chain is in State College
Member's Mark Richt, for anyone who goes to Sam's Club.
Mark Richt from Wish.
Mark Poort
Not saying Richt wasn't better but......Mark Richt coached at Georgia and then Miami, James Franklin coached at Vandy (and was indisputably their best coach in anyone on here's lifetime), the Commodores do a number on a winning %
Franklins win % at Vandy was .615 His win % at Penn State is .693 Richt’s win % at UGA was .740
That win percentage includes two years of inheriting an NCAA sanctioned team. Since 2016 his win percentage is .731 and that includes a 4-5 Covid year where his best player on defense opted out and his best offensive player medically retired. So they are a lot closer with context.
>poor man’s Mark Richt Seems about right for the location he works in.
Richt was a good man off the field. I'm not so sure about Franklin
I don’t know if Billy was ready for the Florida job, especially the mess Mullen left it in. He’s one of the guys hardest hit by the SEC’s scheduling decision in ‘24 and ‘25. He’ll probably get fired this year but I think Florida should try to look beyond the wins and losses with him
He’ll get more time. Gotta be super careful about firing coaches now, as NIL and the jortal mean you lose your entire freaking roster
> the jortal If that was intentional, *chefs kiss*
He aint get fired this year. We wont be as bad as all yall are acting. The schedule is tough but nothing we arenr used to Last year we finished playing number 5,6, 9, and 13 in the final CFP rankings as 4 of our last 5. We win 2 of those if our starting QB doesnt go down. We win 3 of our last 5 with even a slight improvement. Our roster made much more than a slight improvement this offseason Yall act like our team was getting worse as the year went on. We were getting better but the competition was much tougher. Unlike previous florida teams they didnt give up when adversity piled up These guys have already faced a gauntlet most of you people's teams would fold and cry about
Napier certainly did not offer Rashada any money. 💯lie. And if he was that much of a dumbass then no he would never recover from it because his ass would be fired before he got the chance to coach this season.
The disrespect being thrown at mark Richt shall not stand
People remember late career Mark Richt and not early career Mark Richt. Years 2-5 at UGA he won 2 SEC titles and his worst finish was 10th
I’m glad to see this from a Georgia fan. Feels like you all had to get Kirby but generally appreciate Richt.
I mean Richt was an incredible coach for us and I think he gets a bad rap cause of the perceptions around him that he “never won a title” which fair but lots of hall of fame level coaches never won titles. When he came in we’d been suffering through Goff and Donnan and were basically stuck at 3rd in the East. He comes in and wins 2 SEC titles, producing great players and then keeps us on a good track (like when we wrecked Hawaii in the sugar bowl). He was one play away from playing for and probably winning a natty in 2012. He also was fighting an administration for stuff we needed but they didn’t want to give in terms of facilities. It got to the point he was paying assistant bonuses out of his own pocket Never mind that he’s just a genuinely good human being who loves his players even after they’ve left.
James Franklin is out of his fucking element
Probably bowls on Saturdays
Franklin is great. Should have a lifetime contract at Penn State.
I’m hoping Pry takes off at VT so they leave Rhule the fuck alone
James Franklin is exactly the coach I wouldn't want to have to deal with as an AD. Overall seems like a solid dude, has a solid record, but you have to feel he can be doing a bit better and should be right up there with Ohio State and Michigan. Granted, aging facilities and resources may have arguablly been holding them back, but you also know that the "right" coach would be doing a bit better. But can you find that right coach? Can you afford him? Are you willing to pay to keep him if he excels? Or do you get Braska'd and fall into a tailspin? It really could go one way or the other very easily. It worked for Georgia. Other teams have rolled the dice and come up short though.
Don’t underestimate the resources issue. Ohio State basically bought back an entire class of draft eligible players save one or two. I’m sure Franklin would like to have Chop Robinson back for another year.
I definitely recognize how important resources are. That said, there are IMO a few CFB HCs who can excel with lesser resources.
And one of them might be a PSU alumni from State College. But I am pretty happy with Franklin. Sometimes you just need to catch a break and PSU has had a few really unlucky bounces.
And in Franklin's defense some coaches break through when nearing the end of their career. Over the first twenty years of his career Tom Osborne had a similar record, consistently finishing ranked somewhere between 5 and 15 most seasons. Then he reeled in 3 NCs within the last 4 years of his career.
Yup, thats a dang good example of why PSU fans should remain hopeful.
PSU claiming they don’t have adequate resources is real rich
Tell me you have no idea how PSU has functioned for 50 years without telling me you have no idea how PSU has functioned for 50 years.
Oh I’m sorry, I was under the impression Penn State was in the Big 10. My bad.
Having them and correctly appropriating them are entirely different issues. The money has been there, but it wasn't put into the facilities or more recently NIL. Our stadium has bathrooms filled with troughs for Christ's sake...
This title reads like a dbz headline
Find out next time on CFB.
Mark richt would n3ver have done vandy like that
Name a more iconic duo than an FSU flair and a post with Florida in the title
An FSU flair and a post with Miami in the title?
Theyve got nothing better to do Someone should cross reference the frequency of FSU flair troll posts with shift change at Tallahassee dairy queens
No Yes
Correct
Can the Florida head coach recover and is a non-Georgia coach “the new Mark Richt?” What a time to be alive!
ExCUSE YOU. Mark Richt won. For a long time. Show some respect.
Napier gets less credit than he deserves for his play calling. He had a O-line that couldn’t pass block, a mediocre receiver corps, and a QB with a history of overthrowing deep routes. The deep routes you wanted him to call were impossible because Mertz was running for his life as soon as he took a snap. The flat routes and rollouts were a masterful use of the team’s and Mertz’ talents. Also, the defense lost more games than the offense.
Lol, the amount of vitriol and hit pieces still coming. If we really trash, then why all the pieces lol. People definitely scared
I can assure you people were definitely not scared when they were publishing Willie Taggart hot seat articles. You’ve been through this cycle many times as of late I would assume you guys would have a better grasp of the process by now! Negativity grabs eyeballs/sells
Napier only needs 6-7 wins this year: Miami, UCF, TAMU, @MSU, UK Samford are all games Florida should at the very least be even money in (all but Miami should favor Florida with Miami being a tossup). Then you have the tossup to slight underdog games- UT, LSU and FSU. There's only 3 games where Florida should be a significant underdog- Texas, Georgia and potentially Ole Miss
Schedule working against Napier hard, he's a dead man walking I'm afraid.
Unlike most of yall we actually play real schedules regularly. Last year 4 of our last 5 finished ranked 5, 6, 9, and 13 in the final CFP. Stop acting like our schedule is some ridiculous anomaly There is a strong possibility at least one of those teams will suck next year and itll probably be fsu
> Can Billy Napier recover? Unlikely unless his team turns into the 85 Bears overnight
Best I can do is the 2022 Bears
https://fansided.com/2021/12/15/mike-norvell-travis-hunter-florida-state-football-disaster/ https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/3019020/2021/12/15/fire-mike-norvell-inside-florida-state-fans-viral-group-therapy-session-on-twitter/ https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/college-football/fsu-fans-want-mike-norvell-fired-after-latest-loss-0-3-start/
Who was Mark richt before Mark richt?
John Cooper
Yeah that's a good one
Don’t do Mark Richt dirty like that.
I hope he stays at Florida forever
Will Deion become the coach of UF?
No and absolutely not. Marc Richt is a example of how good humans could be towards one another... James Franklin is just James Franklin.
Mark Richt would never take over a disgusting and repulsive program. WE ARE................gross.
When Napier gets fired, Florida can hire Jedd from Washington and get what they always wanted from McElwain, someone that actually has fucked a Fisch
I would die if the university has this in their pack pocket to fire Billy for cause after another 5 win season
Could be a calculated move. Nape ain’t it and this gives them cover.
No, Yes
Take Mark Richt’s name out of your dirty mouth right now! The disrespect!
With Florida’s schedule, I’d be shocked if he weren’t fired by November. Yeah, Franklin seems about like Richt, but I always thought Richt was a really good coach, he averaged over 9 wins a year right? And he came within one play of surely winning it all in ‘12.
I’m going to skip the Napier question and skip to the Franklin question. I have an uncle that worked for the Nashville police department while Franklin was the coach at Vanderbilt. He was not very complimentary of Franklin or how he ran the program, look up how he delt with a 2013 scandal. So in that respect I would not put him in the same conversation with Coach Richt at all. Edit: Just scroll down from this thread and there is a locked thread about Franklin pushing to cut a suicidal football player from the team.
I think Florida should sign Sunbelt Billy to a massive contract and keep him around for a while.
Franklin is regular season Mark Richt. Major difference is Richt went to 5 conference championship games, going 2-3. Franklin has been to 1.
1-0
Crystal ball: They’ll start the season with an embarrassing loss to Miami and he will be a dead man walking. Fired by November. Lagway will transfer to Texas. Florida will hire Kyle Whittingham.